Saw her berthed at Greenwich a couple of years ago. Impressive sight.
HMS Ocean, the "Flagship of the Royal Navy", is to be decommissioned after a multi-million pound refit.
The Ministry of Defence (MoD) confirmed the move would happen in 2018, when HMS Ocean will have "reached the end of her life", despite no mention of it in Monday's Strategic Defence and Security Review.
The Devonport-based helicopter carrier and assault ship, which is Britain's biggest warship, underwent a £65m upgrade in 2014.
Another casualty of the ridiculous, bloated Supercarrier vanity project.
Why use a cheap, inexpensive, effective ship like Ocean when you can roll in a hideously expensive Supercarrier.
Grossadmiral Dairnitz hat gesprochen.
.. he cleaned the windows and he swept the floor, and he polished up the handle of the big front door.
There was a lot of talk that Labour would lose moderate voters to the LD in Oldham. However that doesn't stand up, because in Oldham the Labour MP was a hardline leftie so he wouldn't have got many moderate voters in May anyway.
I made a prediction of Labour 55-65, UKIP on around 30 and the Tories at 10 with LD lost deposit long ago. Events since then haven't changed that prediction much, perhaps Labour will get closer to 50 than I expected and UKIP to 35.
I've no idea what's happening in Oldham but your assumption isn't necessarily correct. I've canvassed lots of people in Islington who vote Tory or LibDem at all levels except Parliamentary, when they vote for Corbyn "because he's such a good contituency MP". Meacher may well have been the same. Most people don't really think in left-right axis terms.
Saw her berthed at Greenwich a couple of years ago. Impressive sight.
HMS Ocean, the "Flagship of the Royal Navy", is to be decommissioned after a multi-million pound refit.
The Ministry of Defence (MoD) confirmed the move would happen in 2018, when HMS Ocean will have "reached the end of her life", despite no mention of it in Monday's Strategic Defence and Security Review.
The Devonport-based helicopter carrier and assault ship, which is Britain's biggest warship, underwent a £65m upgrade in 2014.
Another casualty of the ridiculous, bloated Supercarrier vanity project.
Why use a cheap, inexpensive, effective ship like Ocean when you can roll in a hideously expensive Supercarrier.
Grossadmiral Dairnitz hat gesprochen.
.. he cleaned the windows and he swept the floor, and he polished up the handle of the big front door.
I take it your drooling personal attacks reflect the complete paucity of any argument in favour of the Supercarriers.
Because, thanks to the f**king stupid contract Labour negotiated it was going to be as expensive to cancel the useless hulks as to commision them?
Saw her berthed at Greenwich a couple of years ago. Impressive sight.
HMS Ocean, the "Flagship of the Royal Navy", is to be decommissioned after a multi-million pound refit.
The Ministry of Defence (MoD) confirmed the move would happen in 2018, when HMS Ocean will have "reached the end of her life", despite no mention of it in Monday's Strategic Defence and Security Review.
The Devonport-based helicopter carrier and assault ship, which is Britain's biggest warship, underwent a £65m upgrade in 2014.
Another casualty of the ridiculous, bloated Supercarrier vanity project.
Why use a cheap, inexpensive, effective ship like Ocean when you can roll in a hideously expensive Supercarrier.
Grossadmiral Dairnitz hat gesprochen.
.. he cleaned the windows and he swept the floor, and he polished up the handle of the big front door.
But will he be rewarded for his efforts?
I grew so rich that I was sent By a pocket borough into Parliament
On topic, the unions are in a bit of a bind, PR-wise. Having not really shrugged off their critical role in electing Miliband, and having been important in the rise of the Corbyn bandwagon, to then dump Corbyn and install another leader really would look like the party was in their hands. It may well be true that in a lot of way it is, but it plays badly on the doorstep for it to look like that, particularly against a backdrop of strikes.
“First, we need clarity about the difference that extending Britain’s intervention will make to hastening Isis’s defeat. Our role should not solely be justified by solidarity, but on how we can make a practical difference.
“Second, any military action must be accompanied by a diplomatic plan to broker a political agreement to end the conflict in Syria… No adequate long-term solution can have any place for a dictator [President Assad] who has used chemical weapons against his own people…
“In the longer term a presence will be needed on the ground to keep the peace. This needs to be led by troops from the region – otherwise we risk reinforcing Isis’s narrative. Britain must therefore work closely with countries in the region to develop a plan.
“Third, we should be using our economic power as well as military resources. Isis is trading like a state, so we need to follow the money. That should include economic sanctions, cutting off the finances and targeting the human trafficking operations that fund its bloodshed.
“Fourth, the prime minister must provide assurances that post-conflict reconstruction is not being treated as an afterthought. Syria is a failed state with broken institutions, and will need to be rebuilt.”
"Finally the government must include in its plan “measures to strengthen community cohesion, give our police the resources they need, and prevent extremism from finding a voice in our communities.”
I can't see Cameron doing all these, Jarvis probably knows that.
Jarvis is producing a list which no govt could achieve and will use it as yet another 'let's do nothing' policy from the Labour party and yet some see him as the great hope for the future. Pathetic.
"Finally the government must include in its plan “measures to strengthen community cohesion, give our police the resources they need, and prevent extremism from finding a voice in our communities.”
And in that sentence Jarvis destroys any hope that he might be a worthwhile leader in waiting. Platitudes and calls for increased spending are not good enough.
So on Monday we had the utter humiliation of the defence review and Jonny nomates. Today we have 20 Labour MPs defying the whip and voting on the SNP motion. Tomorrow we have the Autumn Statement and spending review. We also had a meeting of the PLP that went so well that no one other than McDonnell was allowed to talk about it.
Even by Corbyn standards this is quite a week.
and another four and a half years of it to go !
I know. For a 66 year old you must admire his stamina. A man half his age would be struggling to fit that many fiascos and disasters into a week.
I wish I'd gone in to popcorn manufacturing instead of engineering !
It could be worse.
I spent today in Detroit talking about piglet diarhhoea.
(And @HurstLlama - I have some more insight on that Chinese antibiotic resistant bug that was concerning you)
I'm moderately interested, as a thought experiment, in working out what I would do if I were a non-Corbinyte Labour MP. I can see what my ultimate goal would be -a credible and popular mainstream Labour leadership challenger. And I can work back a bit to see what the penultimate parts of the process would be. But I can't see a way to get there from here - in short, where to begin ? Openly mock Labour's election prospects and wait? Or what ? Organise? Organise what, with whom?
I still think a split could be on the cards. Particularly if the membership continue to support Corbyn, even after potentially poor results (and the poll yesterday suggests they may).
This week has shown the Labour Party can't go on like this forever. It can't be an endless cycle of angry PLP meetings, divisions at the top and traded insults. One of two things will happen. The membership will come to their senses and Corbyn will be forced out, or the membership will sustain Corbyn/McDonnell/AN Other Hard Leftie in office and those that disagree will be deselected or will find themselves forced to go elsewhere.
Saw her berthed at Greenwich a couple of years ago. Impressive sight.
HMS Ocean, the "Flagship of the Royal Navy", is to be decommissioned after a multi-million pound refit.
The Ministry of Defence (MoD) confirmed the move would happen in 2018, when HMS Ocean will have "reached the end of her life", despite no mention of it in Monday's Strategic Defence and Security Review.
The Devonport-based helicopter carrier and assault ship, which is Britain's biggest warship, underwent a £65m upgrade in 2014.
Another casualty of the ridiculous, bloated Supercarrier vanity project.
Why use a cheap, inexpensive, effective ship like Ocean when you can roll in a hideously expensive Supercarrier.
Grossadmiral Dairnitz hat gesprochen.
.. he cleaned the windows and he swept the floor, and he polished up the handle of the big front door.
I take it your drooling personal attacks reflect the complete paucity of any argument in favour of the Supercarriers.
I am not an expert in the field, so I probably shouldn't comment as such.
HMS Ocean is on the down cycle of her lifespan - part of the effect of building her to commercial spec. At 20 years a ship in the commercial sector is considered old and is flogged to a rust-bucket line, generally.
Beyond a certain point the maintenance bills really mount up. Bit like the silly idea of trying to buy an ex US Navy carrier - a ship which would be worn out from end to end (including the nuclear power plant!) and needs a vast crew (double what a modern design would need).
Saw her berthed at Greenwich a couple of years ago. Impressive sight.
HMS Ocean, the "Flagship of the Royal Navy", is to be decommissioned after a multi-million pound refit.
The Ministry of Defence (MoD) confirmed the move would happen in 2018, when HMS Ocean will have "reached the end of her life", despite no mention of it in Monday's Strategic Defence and Security Review.
The Devonport-based helicopter carrier and assault ship, which is Britain's biggest warship, underwent a £65m upgrade in 2014.
Another casualty of the ridiculous, bloated Supercarrier vanity project.
Why use a cheap, inexpensive, effective ship like Ocean when you can roll in a hideously expensive Supercarrier.
Grossadmiral Dairnitz hat gesprochen.
.. he cleaned the windows and he swept the floor, and he polished up the handle of the big front door.
But will he be rewarded for his efforts?
I grew so rich that I was sent By a pocket borough into Parliament
Go the whole hog, Mr. B.
I always voted at my party's call And I never thought of thinking for myself at all. I thought so little they rewarded me ..."
on topic Rachel Sylvester in The Times ''MPs know they cannot oust Mr Corbyn less than three months after he was elected – as our poll today shows, two thirds of party members think he is doing a good job, rising to 86 per cent of those who voted for him. But they also fear that the longer they leave a coup the more the left will have secured its hold. If Labour fails to win in London, and gets trounced in local, Welsh and Scottish elections next May, they will be ready to act. But will that be too late? This is turning into a race to the death between the MPs who want to throw out their leader and the Corbynistas who want to purge the moderates.''
Where is McDonnell tomorrow? He ''is due to speak at a “Keep up the Momentum” meeting of the Labour Representation Committee, Waltham Forest Branch, where left-wingers are trying to seize key party positions and have discussed ousting Stella Creasy, the local MP. It is extraordinary that this should be the shadow chancellor’s priority on the day of the autumn statement.''
I think OGH is optimistic if he thinks the unions are going to pull the plug any time soon. The knives are being sharpened BY the Corbyn Crew not FOR them.
I think that McDonnell's schedule tomorrow speaks volumes about his priorities: first things first.
“First, we need clarity about the difference that extending Britain’s intervention will make to hastening Isis’s defeat. Our role should not solely be justified by solidarity, but on how we can make a practical difference.
“Second, any military action must be accompanied by a diplomatic plan to broker a political agreement to end the conflict in Syria… No adequate long-term solution can have any place for a dictator [President Assad] who has used chemical weapons against his own people…
“In the longer term a presence will be needed on the ground to keep the peace. This needs to be led by troops from the region – otherwise we risk reinforcing Isis’s narrative. Britain must therefore work closely with countries in the region to develop a plan.
“Third, we should be using our economic power as well as military resources. Isis is trading like a state, so we need to follow the money. That should include economic sanctions, cutting off the finances and targeting the human trafficking operations that fund its bloodshed.
“Fourth, the prime minister must provide assurances that post-conflict reconstruction is not being treated as an afterthought. Syria is a failed state with broken institutions, and will need to be rebuilt.”
"Finally the government must include in its plan “measures to strengthen community cohesion, give our police the resources they need, and prevent extremism from finding a voice in our communities.”
I can't see Cameron doing all these, Jarvis probably knows that.
Jarvis is producing a list which no govt could achieve and will use it as yet another 'let's do nothing' policy from the Labour party and yet some see him as the great hope for the future. Pathetic.
It's probably more indicative that from all the talk of mass rebellions of Labour MP's on government votes, that all those rebellions fizzle and the only ones left are Liz Kendall and Friends to vote with the Tories.
For all the loud barking Kendalls, Danzucks and Ummunas, their numbers are scarce, you can call them the Very Loud Small Minority.
Saw her berthed at Greenwich a couple of years ago. Impressive sight.
HMS Ocean, the "Flagship of the Royal Navy", is to be decommissioned after a multi-million pound refit.
The Ministry of Defence (MoD) confirmed the move would happen in 2018, when HMS Ocean will have "reached the end of her life", despite no mention of it in Monday's Strategic Defence and Security Review.
The Devonport-based helicopter carrier and assault ship, which is Britain's biggest warship, underwent a £65m upgrade in 2014.
Another casualty of the ridiculous, bloated Supercarrier vanity project.
Why use a cheap, inexpensive, effective ship like Ocean when you can roll in a hideously expensive Supercarrier.
Grossadmiral Dairnitz hat gesprochen.
.. he cleaned the windows and he swept the floor, and he polished up the handle of the big front door.
But will he be rewarded for his efforts?
I grew so rich that I was sent By a pocket borough into Parliament
Go the whole hog, Mr. B.
I always voted at my party's call And I never thought of thinking for myself at all. I thought so little they rewarded me ..."
I almost did, but the other quotes were all 2 lines, so I just followed on the pattern.
To quote Mick Jagger from many years ago - I am a non-conformist, exactly like many thousands of others.
Besides the paw arrived and rather than face another battle of wills I gave her a biscuit.
So on Monday we had the utter humiliation of the defence review and Jonny nomates. Today we have 20 Labour MPs defying the whip and voting on the SNP motion. Tomorrow we have the Autumn Statement and spending review. We also had a meeting of the PLP that went so well that no one other than McDonnell was allowed to talk about it.
Even by Corbyn standards this is quite a week.
and another four and a half years of it to go !
I know. For a 66 year old you must admire his stamina. A man half his age would be struggling to fit that many fiascos and disasters into a week.
I wish I'd gone in to popcorn manufacturing instead of engineering !
It could be worse.
I spent today in Detroit talking about piglet diarhhoea.
(And @HurstLlama - I have some more insight on that Chinese antibiotic resistant bug that was concerning you)
Do, please, share, Mr. Charles. A PM or, I think you have my email address, if you don't want to put the information up on here.
Russia say they lost 2 people in the plane crash - one died before he hit the ground, the other was a marine killed in a rescue attempt when the chopper he was on took ground based fire.
So on Monday we had the utter humiliation of the defence review and Jonny nomates. Today we have 20 Labour MPs defying the whip and voting on the SNP motion. Tomorrow we have the Autumn Statement and spending review. We also had a meeting of the PLP that went so well that no one other than McDonnell was allowed to talk about it.
Even by Corbyn standards this is quite a week.
and another four and a half years of it to go !
I know. For a 66 year old you must admire his stamina. A man half his age would be struggling to fit that many fiascos and disasters into a week.
I wish I'd gone in to popcorn manufacturing instead of engineering !
It could be worse.
I spent today in Detroit talking about piglet diarhhoea.
(And @HurstLlama - I have some more insight on that Chinese antibiotic resistant bug that was concerning you)
Do, please, share, Mr. Charles. A PM or, I think you have my email address, if you don't want to put the information up on here.
From what I remember of my visits to Detroit, this sounds like an urban renewal project.
Another good post from Mr Stodge. Mrs C and I watched the 10pm News last night with mounting disbelief. Where's all this money come from? Mrs C, who once had Tory sympathies, but is rapidly moving to outflank me on the Left, opined that it was coming from the poor!
No it's the ~2% of GDP more or less everybody, bar Corbynites, agrees we need to spend on defence.
Cameron and Osborne really are a pair of nasty pieces of work.
Not really, they just happen to take defence seriously unlike the comedy "opposition".
5 years ago, with the same people in charge, Defence was severley cut. I've never seen an explanation about how useful Trident is against ISIS or othe terrorists, or any serious suggestions that Russia, or any other nuclear power seems to have any intention of attcking us.
It's perhaps time for Shadsy and others to provide a market for Corbyn ceasing to be leader of the Labour Party. As things stand, I would suggest the following possible odds, which include a 10% bookie's overround:
A white Chicago PD officer has been charged with 1st degree murder. A black teen wielding a 4 inch knife was shot SIXTEEN times, including several in the back.
They have not released the dash video yet - they have to by tomorrow afternoon apparently.
So on Monday we had the utter humiliation of the defence review and Jonny nomates. Today we have 20 Labour MPs defying the whip and voting on the SNP motion. Tomorrow we have the Autumn Statement and spending review. We also had a meeting of the PLP that went so well that no one other than McDonnell was allowed to talk about it.
Even by Corbyn standards this is quite a week.
and another four and a half years of it to go !
I know. For a 66 year old you must admire his stamina. A man half his age would be struggling to fit that many fiascos and disasters into a week.
I wish I'd gone in to popcorn manufacturing instead of engineering !
It could be worse.
I spent today in Detroit talking about piglet diarhhoea.
(And @HurstLlama - I have some more insight on that Chinese antibiotic resistant bug that was concerning you)
I too was curious about that Chinese bug - what have you learnt?
''A veteran Lib Dem told me today the party could get 1% of the vote in the Oldham by-election and canvassers only go round in groups''
If EVER there was a time, I mean EVER, to get an unpopular spending round full of tough decisions through parliament, it is now.
Osborne is a f8cking idiot if he doesn;t take the opportunity.
I think the LDs are 95% certain to get less than 5% of the vote. I don't understand why the bookies make them evens to reach that level.
I'm on them to be above 5%, because turnout could likely be very low, and they have flooded the constituency with activists.
If each LibDem activist in OW&R gets out 5 of the voters who voted LD in May, they'll save their deposit. That seems like a fair bet.
The cut off for a deposit is around 1400 votes based the on maximum turnout I expect (a little under 40%), the LD got 1589 votes in May, I don't expect them all to turn out for a December by-election in a constituency they don't have many votes anyway and zero chance of winning. If Turnout crashes to a bit lower than 20% which is the minimum of my expectations, then the LD have a chance since they would only need 700 votes.
Come on - a fiver on the deposit?
I'm not convinced Lib Dems will save their deposit. A tenner at evens to back it up if you'd like, Robert.
“First, we need clarity about the difference that extending Britain’s intervention will make to hastening Isis’s defeat. Our role should not solely be justified by solidarity, but on how we can make a practical difference.
“Second, any military action must be accompanied by a diplomatic plan to broker a political agreement to end the conflict in Syria… No adequate long-term solution can have any place for a dictator [President Assad] who has used chemical weapons against his own people…
“In the longer term a presence will be needed on the ground to keep the peace. This needs to be led by troops from the region – otherwise we risk reinforcing Isis’s narrative. Britain must therefore work closely with countries in the region to develop a plan.
“Third, we should be using our economic power as well as military resources. Isis is trading like a state, so we need to follow the money. That should include economic sanctions, cutting off the finances and targeting the human trafficking operations that fund its bloodshed.
“Fourth, the prime minister must provide assurances that post-conflict reconstruction is not being treated as an afterthought. Syria is a failed state with broken institutions, and will need to be rebuilt.”
"Finally the government must include in its plan “measures to strengthen community cohesion, give our police the resources they need, and prevent extremism from finding a voice in our communities.”
I can't see Cameron doing all these, Jarvis probably knows that.
President Obama couldn't promise to deliver half of that lot. It is "if Britain ruled the world" nonsense. Is he saying if we can't make everything perfect we should do nothing at all? That would be a disappointing attitude.
I'm moderately interested, as a thought experiment, in working out what I would do if I were a non-Corbinyte Labour MP. I can see what my ultimate goal would be -a credible and popular mainstream Labour leadership challenger. And I can work back a bit to see what the penultimate parts of the process would be. But I can't see a way to get there from here - in short, where to begin ? Openly mock Labour's election prospects and wait? Or what ? Organise? Organise what, with whom?
I still think a split could be on the cards. Particularly if the membership continue to support Corbyn, even after potentially poor results (and the poll yesterday suggests they may).
This week has shown the Labour Party can't go on like this forever. It can't be an endless cycle of angry PLP meetings, divisions at the top and traded insults. One of two things will happen. The membership will come to their senses and Corbyn will be forced out, or the membership will sustain Corbyn/McDonnell/AN Other Hard Leftie in office and those that disagree will be deselected or will find themselves forced to go elsewhere.
Not entirely sure that's true. McDonnell or Abbott wouldn't have won had it been 'their turn'. In the Yougov poll the Corbynites preference if JC wasn't leader is spread widely with Dan Jarvis most popular. Yougov appear not to have asked about McDonnell but we saw Abbott's inability ride any 'left' mood in the mayoral selection. If there was a plausible election winner I think they could easily peel off enough Corbyn support for a left candidate not to win (and that would be assuming one was nominated). This all requires Jeremy to stand down though.
Burnham and Cooper are finished (see their very poor ratings amongst Corbynites who see them as losers) and Benn does not seem to have much support
In response to Steve's question to give some examples -
1. Kier Starmer: Rise above it and ignore day to day PLP politics for the first year. Get some national profile and entrench locally. Wait to see which way the wind blows.
2. Dan Jarvis: be slightly rebellious but nod to the centre/soft left by being 'had headed' but not gung ho on defence and build your profile on other policy areas.
3. Lisa Nandy: be loyal but quiet so as not to be too associated with the heid the balls and throw in the occasional olive branch to the centre/right by criticising the more egregious and non-comradely behaviour of Team Jezza - eg. Ken's outburst last week.
4. Clive Lewis - jump on the bandwagon, try and get all your colleagues de-selected and hope for a permanent leftward shift.
5. Tom Watson: Don't be openly disloyal (till it suits you), build your links around the country in your campaigning role (being careful not to get defeats pinned to you) and conspire with the brothers in the background.
Saw her berthed at Greenwich a couple of years ago. Impressive sight.
HMS Ocean, the "Flagship of the Royal Navy", is to be decommissioned after a multi-million pound refit.
The Ministry of Defence (MoD) confirmed the move would happen in 2018, when HMS Ocean will have "reached the end of her life", despite no mention of it in Monday's Strategic Defence and Security Review.
The Devonport-based helicopter carrier and assault ship, which is Britain's biggest warship, underwent a £65m upgrade in 2014.
Another casualty of the ridiculous, bloated Supercarrier vanity project.
Why use a cheap, inexpensive, effective ship like Ocean when you can roll in a hideously expensive Supercarrier.
It's Groundhog Day again, with another thread hijacked in traditional Cyber Nat style by the ranting Dair.
Looks like Seb Coe is in trouble over awarding 2021 world championships to Eugene, Oregon.
He is also a paid 'adviser' to Nike.
His interests are FULLY DECLARED
Declared or not it's a conflict of interest. The BBC has emails proving that he discussed the bid with at least one Nike executive.
Lord Snooty appropriately in deep shit as he's such a turd. There is no conflict of interest - he's shown that he knows full well where his priority interests lie.
Another good post from Mr Stodge. Mrs C and I watched the 10pm News last night with mounting disbelief. Where's all this money come from? Mrs C, who once had Tory sympathies, but is rapidly moving to outflank me on the Left, opined that it was coming from the poor!
No it's the ~2% of GDP more or less everybody, bar Corbynites, agrees we need to spend on defence.
Cameron and Osborne really are a pair of nasty pieces of work.
Not really, they just happen to take defence seriously unlike the comedy "opposition".
5 years ago, with the same people in charge, Defence was severley cut. I've never seen an explanation about how useful Trident is against ISIS or othe terrorists, or any serious suggestions that Russia, or any other nuclear power seems to have any intention of attcking us.
Your fire insurance is useless against terrorism (often literally - excluded in your policy). have you cancelled it yet?
Looks like Seb Coe is in trouble over awarding 2021 world championships to Eugene, Oregon.
He is also a paid 'adviser' to Nike.
His interests are FULLY DECLARED
Declared or not it's a conflict of interest. The BBC has emails proving that he discussed the bid with at least one Nike executive.
Lord Snooty appropriately in deep shit as he's such a turd. There is no conflict of interest - he's shown that he knows full well where his priority interests lie.
This whole drug business means that athletics exists just to make cycling look good.
Sky News Newsdesk @SkyNewsBreak 1m1 minute ago Reuters: Medical services say several people have been wounded in an ongoing hostage situation in the northern French town of #Roubaix
''A veteran Lib Dem told me today the party could get 1% of the vote in the Oldham by-election and canvassers only go round in groups''
If EVER there was a time, I mean EVER, to get an unpopular spending round full of tough decisions through parliament, it is now.
Osborne is a f8cking idiot if he doesn;t take the opportunity.
I think the LDs are 95% certain to get less than 5% of the vote. I don't understand why the bookies make them evens to reach that level.
I'm on them to be above 5%, because turnout could likely be very low, and they have flooded the constituency with activists.
If each LibDem activist in OW&R gets out 5 of the voters who voted LD in May, they'll save their deposit. That seems like a fair bet.
The cut off for a deposit is around 1400 votes based the on maximum turnout I expect (a little under 40%), the LD got 1589 votes in May, I don't expect them all to turn out for a December by-election in a constituency they don't have many votes anyway and zero chance of winning. If Turnout crashes to a bit lower than 20% which is the minimum of my expectations, then the LD have a chance since they would only need 700 votes.
Come on - a fiver on the deposit?
I'm not convinced Lib Dems will save their deposit. A tenner at evens to back it up if you'd like, Robert.
I'm not convinced either, but I think it's a better than evens shot
''A veteran Lib Dem told me today the party could get 1% of the vote in the Oldham by-election and canvassers only go round in groups''
If EVER there was a time, I mean EVER, to get an unpopular spending round full of tough decisions through parliament, it is now.
Osborne is a f8cking idiot if he doesn;t take the opportunity.
I think the LDs are 95% certain to get less than 5% of the vote. I don't understand why the bookies make them evens to reach that level.
I'm on them to be above 5%, because turnout could likely be very low, and they have flooded the constituency with activists.
If each LibDem activist in OW&R gets out 5 of the voters who voted LD in May, they'll save their deposit. That seems like a fair bet.
The cut off for a deposit is around 1400 votes based the on maximum turnout I expect (a little under 40%), the LD got 1589 votes in May, I don't expect them all to turn out for a December by-election in a constituency they don't have many votes anyway and zero chance of winning. If Turnout crashes to a bit lower than 20% which is the minimum of my expectations, then the LD have a chance since they would only need 700 votes.
Come on - a fiver on the deposit?
I'm not convinced Lib Dems will save their deposit. A tenner at evens to back it up if you'd like, Robert.
I'm not convinced either, but I think it's a better than evens shot
Another good post from Mr Stodge. Mrs C and I watched the 10pm News last night with mounting disbelief. Where's all this money come from? Mrs C, who once had Tory sympathies, but is rapidly moving to outflank me on the Left, opined that it was coming from the poor!
No it's the ~2% of GDP more or less everybody, bar Corbynites, agrees we need to spend on defence.
Cameron and Osborne really are a pair of nasty pieces of work.
Not really, they just happen to take defence seriously unlike the comedy "opposition".
5 years ago, with the same people in charge, Defence was severley cut. I've never seen an explanation about how useful Trident is against ISIS or othe terrorists, or any serious suggestions that Russia, or any other nuclear power seems to have any intention of attcking us.
You think that, if we ask them nicely, they might warn us in advance?
Your fire insurance is useless against terrorism (often literally - excluded in your policy). have you cancelled it yet?
I get fed up with people saying "what do nuclear weapons do against the IRA/Al Queda/ISIS/Women's Institute?", it is just about the stupidest argument against them.
If we only used defence spending on defeating ISIS we'd be up the proverbial creek when it kicks off wherever the next big threat is going to come from.
Looks like Seb Coe is in trouble over awarding 2021 world championships to Eugene, Oregon.
He is also a paid 'adviser' to Nike.
His interests are FULLY DECLARED
Declared or not it's a conflict of interest. The BBC has emails proving that he discussed the bid with at least one Nike executive.
Lord Snooty appropriately in deep shit as he's such a turd. There is no conflict of interest - he's shown that he knows full well where his priority interests lie.
This whole drug business means that athletics exists just to make cycling look good.
in short, where to begin ? Openly mock Labour's election prospects and wait? Or what ? Organise? Organise what, with whom?
If you are a shadow cabinet member, resign.
If you are a backbencher, repudiate Corbyn's message, supporters and platform at every opportunity.
Explain you were elected on a non-Corbyn platform, say you will offer him as much loyalty as he showed previous leaders and vote against the whip as often as your conscience dictates.
And point out that winning elections is part of the Labour Party constitution, and since Corbynism won't win a single seat you could argue that his leadership is a breach of party rules
Saw her berthed at Greenwich a couple of years ago. Impressive sight.
HMS Ocean, the "Flagship of the Royal Navy", is to be decommissioned after a multi-million pound refit.
The Ministry of Defence (MoD) confirmed the move would happen in 2018, when HMS Ocean will have "reached the end of her life", despite no mention of it in Monday's Strategic Defence and Security Review.
The Devonport-based helicopter carrier and assault ship, which is Britain's biggest warship, underwent a £65m upgrade in 2014.
Another casualty of the ridiculous, bloated Supercarrier vanity project.
Why use a cheap, inexpensive, effective ship like Ocean when you can roll in a hideously expensive Supercarrier.
It's Groundhog Day again, with another thread hijacked in traditional Cyber Nat style by the ranting Dair.
@ScottyNational: Sales policy : SNP confirm that all party whips now sold with 12 month returns policy. No questions asked. Definitely no questions asked.
@kkabdn: NEWS: Nicola Sturgeon tells BBC she "would rather not be in a position where an MP would have to stand aside".
@kkabdn: NEWS: Nicola Sturgeon adds there are "no issues with the {SNP candidate} vetting process." "Neither {suspended MP has} done anything wrong"
Brave words, Nicola
If the Tories were losing proportionally the same number of MPs as the SNP are, then they would be down by 12 already and their majority would be in jeopardy.
Saw her berthed at Greenwich a couple of years ago. Impressive sight.
HMS Ocean, the "Flagship of the Royal Navy", is to be decommissioned after a multi-million pound refit.
The Ministry of Defence (MoD) confirmed the move would happen in 2018, when HMS Ocean will have "reached the end of her life", despite no mention of it in Monday's Strategic Defence and Security Review.
The Devonport-based helicopter carrier and assault ship, which is Britain's biggest warship, underwent a £65m upgrade in 2014.
Another casualty of the ridiculous, bloated Supercarrier vanity project.
Why use a cheap, inexpensive, effective ship like Ocean when you can roll in a hideously expensive Supercarrier.
It's Groundhog Day again, with another thread hijacked in traditional Cyber Nat style by the ranting Dair.
“First, we need clarity about the difference that extending Britain’s intervention will make to hastening Isis’s defeat. Our role should not solely be justified by solidarity, but on how we can make a practical difference.
“Second, any military action must be accompanied by a diplomatic plan to broker a political agreement to end the conflict in Syria… No adequate long-term solution can have any place for a dictator [President Assad] who has used chemical weapons against his own people…
“In the longer term a presence will be needed on the ground to keep the peace. This needs to be led by troops from the region – otherwise we risk reinforcing Isis’s narrative. Britain must therefore work closely with countries in the region to develop a plan.
“Third, we should be using our economic power as well as military resources. Isis is trading like a state, so we need to follow the money. That should include economic sanctions, cutting off the finances and targeting the human trafficking operations that fund its bloodshed.
“Fourth, the prime minister must provide assurances that post-conflict reconstruction is not being treated as an afterthought. Syria is a failed state with broken institutions, and will need to be rebuilt.”
"Finally the government must include in its plan “measures to strengthen community cohesion, give our police the resources they need, and prevent extremism from finding a voice in our communities.”
I can't see Cameron doing all these, Jarvis probably knows that.
Jarvis is producing a list which no govt could achieve and will use it as yet another 'let's do nothing' policy from the Labour party and yet some see him as the great hope for the future. Pathetic.
Interesting - I read the list as certain to be accepted. Point 1 needs a general to make some reassuring noises. Point 2 echoes Cameron on Assad - the plan (it doesn't need to succeed to be a plan) is to (somehow) negotiate a deal involving Assad retiring in the longer term. Point 3 requires an assurance - I imagine we are indeed doing our best on this. Point 4 requires Cameron to look grave and give assurances: an afterthought, of course not, never. Point 5 requires assurances that the right sort of community projects and policing will be assured funds - yes, yes, certainly, dear boy.
Why do you both feel the demands are impossible? To me, they're rather weak - basically a demand for a bunch of fine words.
Prediction. Russia will do the square root of F all about their jet shot down today. For a start, how will their naval assets get in and out of the Black Sea if the Turks close the Bosphorous? Bully called out. Putin will whine like a bitch but do nothing.
“First, we need clarity about the difference that extending Britain’s intervention will make to hastening Isis’s defeat. Our role should not solely be justified by solidarity, but on how we can make a practical difference.
“Second, any military action must be accompanied by a diplomatic plan to broker a political agreement to end the conflict in Syria… No adequate long-term solution can have any place for a dictator [President Assad] who has used chemical weapons against his own people…
“In the longer term a presence will be needed on the ground to keep the peace. This needs to be led by troops from the region – otherwise we risk reinforcing Isis’s narrative. Britain must therefore work closely with countries in the region to develop a plan.
“Third, we should be using our economic power as well as military resources. Isis is trading like a state, so we need to follow the money. That should include economic sanctions, cutting off the finances and targeting the human trafficking operations that fund its bloodshed.
“Fourth, the prime minister must provide assurances that post-conflict reconstruction is not being treated as an afterthought. Syria is a failed state with broken institutions, and will need to be rebuilt.”
"Finally the government must include in its plan “measures to strengthen community cohesion, give our police the resources they need, and prevent extremism from finding a voice in our communities.”
I can't see Cameron doing all these, Jarvis probably knows that.
President Obama couldn't promise to deliver half of that lot. It is "if Britain ruled the world" nonsense. Is he saying if we can't make everything perfect we should do nothing at all? That would be a disappointing attitude.
Dan Jarvis's wish list omitted mother hood, apple pie and world peace. Almost as bad as the 5 demands by that minor party, the Lib Dems, today.
Looks like Seb Coe is in trouble over awarding 2021 world championships to Eugene, Oregon.
He is also a paid 'adviser' to Nike.
His interests are FULLY DECLARED
Declared or not it's a conflict of interest. The BBC has emails proving that he discussed the bid with at least one Nike executive.
Lord Snooty appropriately in deep shit as he's such a turd. There is no conflict of interest - he's shown that he knows full well where his priority interests lie.
This whole drug business means that athletics exists just to make cycling look good.
It's not doing as well as it used to is it.
Which one? I don't think either of them is in a good place really. Cycling - my impression - seems to have turned the corner and is starting the road back to eventual respectability.
Athletics is still bad. The whole Russian doping scandal.
They need to ditch all these national and particular sport doping outfits and let WADA do the whole damned thing.
Your fire insurance is useless against terrorism (often literally - excluded in your policy). have you cancelled it yet?
I get fed up with people saying "what do nuclear weapons do against the IRA/Al Queda/ISIS/Women's Institute?", it is just about the stupidest argument against them.
If we only used defence spending on defeating ISIS we'd be up the proverbial creek when it kicks off wherever the next big threat is going to come from.
The NHS is useless in protecting against invasions by giant, mutated haddock. Therefore we must.....
Another good post from Mr Stodge. Mrs C and I watched the 10pm News last night with mounting disbelief. Where's all this money come from? Mrs C, who once had Tory sympathies, but is rapidly moving to outflank me on the Left, opined that it was coming from the poor!
No it's the ~2% of GDP more or less everybody, bar Corbynites, agrees we need to spend on defence.
Cameron and Osborne really are a pair of nasty pieces of work.
Not really, they just happen to take defence seriously unlike the comedy "opposition".
...... I've never seen an explanation about how useful Trident is against ISIS or othe terrorists, or any serious suggestions that Russia, or any other nuclear power seems to have any intention of attcking us.
Bet the Ukraine wished it kept its nukes with Putin's Russian land grabs.
Your fire insurance is useless against terrorism (often literally - excluded in your policy). have you cancelled it yet?
I get fed up with people saying "what do nuclear weapons do against the IRA/Al Queda/ISIS/Women's Institute?", it is just about the stupidest argument against them.
If we only used defence spending on defeating ISIS we'd be up the proverbial creek when it kicks off wherever the next big threat is going to come from.
That is undoubtedly true but the question remains as to whether we are getting the biggest bang for our limited bucks. In terms of BANG!! the answer is yes but in terms of applied or applicable force I am not sure.
An independent nuclear deterrent is a ticket to the top table and it is hard to argue that the UK does not gain from that. But the threats we are facing in the next 20 years look very, very different from those I was aware of in the 1970s when my dad was an officer in the BAOR.
Are we safer from the likes of Daash if we were capable of deploying, say 10K men with proper airborne support than when we have nuclear weapons under the sea? Those that would say that is the wrong question would point to Ukraine. Would Putin have behaved the way he has if they had kept their nuclear weapons? Almost certainly not but we are in a very different geographical position.
My suspicion is that we could be more effective without Trident if we spent our 2% on more conventional weapons but it is not clear cut.
Prediction. Russia will do the square root of F all about their jet shot down today. For a start, how will their naval assets get in and out of the Black Sea if the Turks close the Bosphorous? Bully called out. Putin will whine like a bitch but do nothing.
I tend to agree. There will be noise and wind but little substance. Sure, Russia could withhold oil and gas exports to Turkey, but its energy revenues are already hit hard. And it could ban Turkish agricultural imports, but with the ban on EU produce, food prices and choices have already taken a beating.
So expect angry noises for a week or so and then everyone to move on, with the Russians giving Turkish airspace a wider berth.
Your fire insurance is useless against terrorism (often literally - excluded in your policy). have you cancelled it yet?
I get fed up with people saying "what do nuclear weapons do against the IRA/Al Queda/ISIS/Women's Institute?", it is just about the stupidest argument against them.
If we only used defence spending on defeating ISIS we'd be up the proverbial creek when it kicks off wherever the next big threat is going to come from.
My suspicion is that we could be more effective without Trident if we spent our 2% on more conventional weapons but it is not clear cut.
Has there been an equipment limitation in our response against Al-Q or ISIL that not funding Trident would have solved?
As far as I can see, the problem has been the very slow adaptability of the procurement process in providing equipment that responds to rapidly evolving guerilla warfare.
Looks like Seb Coe is in trouble over awarding 2021 world championships to Eugene, Oregon.
He is also a paid 'adviser' to Nike.
His interests are FULLY DECLARED
Declared or not it's a conflict of interest. The BBC has emails proving that he discussed the bid with at least one Nike executive.
Lord Snooty appropriately in deep shit as he's such a turd. There is no conflict of interest - he's shown that he knows full well where his priority interests lie.
This whole drug business means that athletics exists just to make cycling look good.
It's not doing as well as it used to is it.
Which one? I don't think either of them is in a good place really. Cycling - my impression - seems to have turned the corner and is starting the road back to eventual respectability.
Athletics is still bad. The whole Russian doping scandal.
They need to ditch all these national and particular sport doping outfits and let WADA do the whole damned thing.
Athletics, although historically I acknowledge it's hardly been pure as the driven snow. It'll never happen but why not let everyone take what they like? In terms of competitiveness it might create a more level playing field than that which technology often creates in the manufacture of equipment.
Dear PM if you do not do exactly what we want then we will take all of our massive 8 votes away so there..... Translation = Violet says 'Ill scream and scream and scream!' if she doesn't get her way..
Your fire insurance is useless against terrorism (often literally - excluded in your policy). have you cancelled it yet?
I get fed up with people saying "what do nuclear weapons do against the IRA/Al Queda/ISIS/Women's Institute?", it is just about the stupidest argument against them.
If we only used defence spending on defeating ISIS we'd be up the proverbial creek when it kicks off wherever the next big threat is going to come from.
My suspicion is that we could be more effective without Trident if we spent our 2% on more conventional weapons but it is not clear cut.
Has there been an equipment limitation in our response against Al-Q or ISIL that not funding Trident would have solved?
As far as I can see, the problem has been the very slow adaptability of the procurement process in providing equipment that responds to rapidly evolving guerilla warfare.
We don't have nearly enough aircraft nor do we have the money to make useful Brown's idiotic carriers. If we diverted the money from our trident program we could fix that. Not overnight but over a period of time.
Dear PM if you do not do exactly what we want then we will take all of our massive 8 votes away so there..... Translation = Violet says 'Ill scream and scream and scream!' if she doesn't get her way..
To be fair, at least there are some concrete proposals in there rather than Dan Jarvis' long winded statement of the obvious.
Prediction. Russia will do the square root of F all about their jet shot down today. For a start, how will their naval assets get in and out of the Black Sea if the Turks close the Bosphorous? Bully called out. Putin will whine like a bitch but do nothing.
Shows what you know.
They will heavily hit Turkish proxies in Syria, already doing so. Continue destroying the IS-Turkish oil trade. Continue squeezing Turkish-Russian trade which a weak Turkish economy is dependent on. http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/10/turkey-russia-syria-isis-economic-threats.html# Shoot down any Turkish planes entering Syrian or Iraqi airspace, giving safehaven to the Kurds.
More concerned what we do frankly, the statements coming out from NATO and European capitals clearly indicate, Turkey is on its own. The last thing we should do is get involved in Syrian airspace.
Saw her berthed at Greenwich a couple of years ago. Impressive sight.
HMS Ocean, the "Flagship of the Royal Navy", is to be decommissioned after a multi-million pound refit.
The Ministry of Defence (MoD) confirmed the move would happen in 2018, when HMS Ocean will have "reached the end of her life", despite no mention of it in Monday's Strategic Defence and Security Review.
The Devonport-based helicopter carrier and assault ship, which is Britain's biggest warship, underwent a £65m upgrade in 2014.
Another casualty of the ridiculous, bloated Supercarrier vanity project.
Why use a cheap, inexpensive, effective ship like Ocean when you can roll in a hideously expensive Supercarrier.
Grossadmiral Dairnitz hat gesprochen.
.. he cleaned the windows and he swept the floor, and he polished up the handle of the big front door.
I take it your drooling personal attacks reflect the complete paucity of any argument in favour of the Supercarriers.
I am not an expert in the field, so I probably shouldn't comment as such.
HMS Ocean is on the down cycle of her lifespan - part of the effect of building her to commercial spec. At 20 years a ship in the commercial sector is considered old and is flogged to a rust-bucket line, generally.
Beyond a certain point the maintenance bills really mount up. Bit like the silly idea of trying to buy an ex US Navy carrier - a ship which would be worn out from end to end (including the nuclear power plant!) and needs a vast crew (double what a modern design would need).
I never really understood the argument people wanting to build old US carriers were making. It seemed to be that the US were retiring carriers early as they wanted regular heartbeats of new ones made to keep the shipyards in business. But that still doesn't mean the ships we'd buy had enough life in them to make it worth the massive expense in training, maintenance and crewing.
Do we even have a graving dock big enough for a Nimitz-class, particularly now King George V at Southampton is out of commission?
(BTW, thanks for your posts last night - very illuminating. Unfortunately they'll also be heavy on my wallet, as I've ordered a couple of books).
My suspicion is that we could be more effective without Trident if we spent our 2% on more conventional weapons but it is not clear cut.
No
Just because the threats of tomorrow (ISIS) are different from the threats of yesterday (Cold War), doesn't mean the old defences are useless.
Don't install the latest firewall/IPS/AV on your laptop, and leave your front door unlocked.
Its not a question of "useless" but think of the Falklands war. We had nuclear weapons and did it stop an invasion of British sovereign soil? Nope, because their use was inconceivable. We made it through but it was a damn near thing and we have far fewer ships (if more bloody admirals) than then even if each one is more powerful.
Prediction. Russia will do the square root of F all about their jet shot down today. For a start, how will their naval assets get in and out of the Black Sea if the Turks close the Bosphorous? Bully called out. Putin will whine like a bitch but do nothing.
I tend to agree. There will be noise and wind but little substance. Sure, Russia could withhold oil and gas exports to Turkey, but its energy revenues are already hit hard. And it could ban Turkish agricultural imports, but with the ban on EU produce, food prices and choices have already taken a beating.
So expect angry noises for a week or so and then everyone to move on, with the Russians giving Turkish airspace a wider berth.
I am given to hyperbole. Obviously Putin will do something. Economic sanctions are low hanging fruit. Indeed they have already done that with a travel advisory recommending that Russian citizens not travel to Turkey. But militarily? No doubt bomb the Syrian rebels in that area. They were doing that already. Get into a shooting war with the Turks on their manor? Nah.
And where will Russians go for beach holidays? Eygpt is out and now Turkey. Bulgaria? I fear the Costa Blanca, or rather fear for it. It will sink under the weight of bling.
As far as I can see, the problem has been the very slow adaptability of the procurement process in providing equipment that responds to rapidly evolving guerilla warfare.
Yes, but I really do think there are signs of the MOD getting better at procurement. We can't undo the mistakes of the past, and we will be living with some of them for many decades to come, but a lot of recent procurement decisions look fairly sound.
Prediction. Russia will do the square root of F all about their jet shot down today. For a start, how will their naval assets get in and out of the Black Sea if the Turks close the Bosphorous? Bully called out. Putin will whine like a bitch but do nothing.
Shows what you know.
They will heavily hit Turkish proxies in Syria, already doing so. Continue destroying the IS-Turkish oil trade. Continue squeezing Turkish-Russian trade which a weak Turkish economy is dependent on. http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/10/turkey-russia-syria-isis-economic-threats.html# Shoot down any Turkish planes entering Syrian or Iraqi airspace, giving safehaven to the Kurds.
More concerned what we do frankly, the statements coming out from NATO and European capitals clearly indicate, Turkey is on its own. The last thing we should do is get involved in Syrian airspace.
How will 'hitting the IS-Turkish oil trade' affect the Turkish government? In many cases, it might actually advantage the Turkish government as a whole.
And how weak is the Russian economy at the moment, especially with the sanctions in place after their 'adventures' in Ukraine and elsewhere combined with low oil prices?
Prediction. Russia will do the square root of F all about their jet shot down today. For a start, how will their naval assets get in and out of the Black Sea if the Turks close the Bosphorous? Bully called out. Putin will whine like a bitch but do nothing.
Shows what you know.
They will heavily hit Turkish proxies in Syria, already doing so. Continue destroying the IS-Turkish oil trade. Continue squeezing Turkish-Russian trade which a weak Turkish economy is dependent on. http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/10/turkey-russia-syria-isis-economic-threats.html# Shoot down any Turkish planes entering Syrian or Iraqi airspace, giving safehaven to the Kurds.
More concerned what we do frankly, the statements coming out from NATO and European capitals clearly indicate, Turkey is on its own. The last thing we should do is get involved in Syrian airspace.
That's the thing about predictions. Fancy a bet on the likelihood of Russia shooting down a Turkish military jet (I had to qualify that to exclude your idol shooting down a Turkish civilian jet)?
I spent today in Detroit talking about piglet diarhhoea.
(And @HurstLlama - I have some more insight on that Chinese antibiotic resistant bug that was concerning you)
Do, please, share, Mr. Charles. A PM or, I think you have my email address, if you don't want to put the information up on here.
No problem - I only had a few minutes with my man in e.coli today.
Basically the resistance has been observed in pigs and poultry to an antibiotic that has been banned in some markets in the West for many years (cancer signals as a side effect). They are right that the gene may mutate and spread to humans - but the impact won't be the "end of antibiotics" as the press likes to emote - but it could be that this specific class of antibiotics becomes non-viable
Fortunately there are two good pieces of news.
1. The WHO/European authorities realised this risk several years ago and have been instituting reforms such that all new classes of antibiotics are designated for human or for animal use only. Legacy antibiotics are being much more restricted in their use in animals, primarily so they are used for therapeutic purposes only rather than for prevention or growth promotion
2. There's a lovely little vaccine that can replace the the need for these specific antibiotics. Already on the market in Europe and North America with other registrations underway
Your fire insurance is useless against terrorism (often literally - excluded in your policy). have you cancelled it yet?
I get fed up with people saying "what do nuclear weapons do against the IRA/Al Queda/ISIS/Women's Institute?", it is just about the stupidest argument against them.
If we only used defence spending on defeating ISIS we'd be up the proverbial creek when it kicks off wherever the next big threat is going to come from.
My suspicion is that we could be more effective without Trident if we spent our 2% on more conventional weapons but it is not clear cut.
Has there been an equipment limitation in our response against Al-Q or ISIL that not funding Trident would have solved?
As far as I can see, the problem has been the very slow adaptability of the procurement process in providing equipment that responds to rapidly evolving guerilla warfare.
We don't have nearly enough aircraft nor do we have the money to make useful Brown's idiotic carriers. If we diverted the money from our trident program we could fix that. Not overnight but over a period of time.
They are not idiotic. When - and, yes it has taken way too long - they are operational they will be amongst the most potent weapons systems in the world.
Trump is still telling porky pies - now it's that he saw people jump from the World Trade Center on 9/11 from his apartment, which is 4 miles away from the WTC.
CNN has a new Iowa poll which shows Cruz only 2 points back of Trump. Carson is slipping. His poor foreign policy performance actually makes Trump look good.
Your fire insurance is useless against terrorism (often literally - excluded in your policy). have you cancelled it yet?
I get fed up with people saying "what do nuclear weapons do against the IRA/Al Queda/ISIS/Women's Institute?", it is just about the stupidest argument against them.
If we only used defence spending on defeating ISIS we'd be up the proverbial creek when it kicks off wherever the next big threat is going to come from.
My suspicion is that we could be more effective without Trident if we spent our 2% on more conventional weapons but it is not clear cut.
Has there been an equipment limitation in our response against Al-Q or ISIL that not funding Trident would have solved?
As far as I can see, the problem has been the very slow adaptability of the procurement process in providing equipment that responds to rapidly evolving guerilla warfare.
We don't have nearly enough aircraft nor do we have the money to make useful Brown's idiotic carriers. If we diverted the money from our trident program we could fix that. Not overnight but over a period of time.
They are not idiotic. When - and, yes it has taken way too long - they are operational they will be amongst the most potent weapons systems in the world.
This is not yet proven. The Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning has been a disappointment to the US army, it cant dogfight even with missiles and it's stealth ability is also suspect. Britain may be buying a a load of dead parrots if it isn't careful.
"The Joint Strike Fighter is the most expensive weapons system ever developed. It is plagued by design flaws and cost overruns. It flies only in good weather. The computers that run it lack the software they need for combat. No one can say for certain when the plane will work as advertised. Until recently, the prime contractor, Lockheed Martin, was operating with a free hand—paid handsomely for its own mistakes. Looking back, even the general now in charge of the program can’t believe how we got to this point. In sum: all systems go!"
Trump is still telling porky pies - now it's that he saw people jump from the World Trade Center on 9/11 from his apartment, which is 4 miles away from the WTC.
CNN has a new Iowa poll which shows Cruz only 2 points back of Trump. Carson is slipping. His poor foreign policy performance actually makes Trump look good.
It is totally baffling why somebody in his position would think (lets be generous and say) embellishing this experience of 9/11. If he had just said he was in NY that day, experienced the fear, etc etc etc, that would have just been as effective.
Also, did he not think that being a candidate for the biggest job in the world, that every story he tells there will be an army of people trying to check the validity of it.
My suspicion is that we could be more effective without Trident if we spent our 2% on more conventional weapons but it is not clear cut.
No
Just because the threats of tomorrow (ISIS) are different from the threats of yesterday (Cold War), doesn't mean the old defences are useless.
Don't install the latest firewall/IPS/AV on your laptop, and leave your front door unlocked.
Its not a question of "useless" but think of the Falklands war. We had nuclear weapons and did it stop an invasion of British sovereign soil? Nope, because their use was inconceivable. We made it through but it was a damn near thing and we have far fewer ships (if more bloody admirals) than then even if each one is more powerful.
Thatcher allegedly threatened a nuclear strike against their base at Cordoba if both carriers were sunk and the Argentines refused to withdraw.
A test pilot has some very, very bad news about the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. The pricey new stealth jet can’t turn or climb fast enough to hit an enemy plane during a dogfight or to dodge the enemy’s own gunfire, the pilot reported following a day of mock air battles back in January. “The F-35 was at a distinct energy disadvantage,” the unnamed pilot wrote in a scathing five-page brief that War Is Boring has obtained. The brief is unclassified but is labeled “for official use only.” The test pilot’s report is the latest evidence of fundamental problems with the design of the F-35 — which, at a total program cost of more than a trillion dollars, is history’s most expensive weapon.
Dear PM if you do not do exactly what we want then we will take all of our massive 8 votes away so there..... Translation = Violet says 'Ill scream and scream and scream!' if she doesn't get her way..
To be fair, at least there are some concrete proposals in there rather than Dan Jarvis' long winded statement of the obvious.
They are 5 very sensible requirements that any sensible government should be able to sign up to.
I spent today in Detroit talking about piglet diarhhoea.
(And @HurstLlama - I have some more insight on that Chinese antibiotic resistant bug that was concerning you)
Do, please, share, Mr. Charles. A PM or, I think you have my email address, if you don't want to put the information up on here.
No problem - I only had a few minutes with my man in e.coli today.
Basically the resistance has been observed in pigs and poultry to an antibiotic that has been banned in some markets in the West for many years (cancer signals as a side effect). They are right that the gene may mutate and spread to humans - but the impact won't be the "end of antibiotics" as the press likes to emote - but it could be that this specific class of antibiotics becomes non-viable
Fortunately there are two good pieces of news.
1. The WHO/European authorities realised this risk several years ago and have been instituting reforms such that all new classes of antibiotics are designated for human or for animal use only. Legacy antibiotics are being much more restricted in their use in animals, primarily so they are used for therapeutic purposes only rather than for prevention or growth promotion
2. There's a lovely little vaccine that can replace the the need for these specific antibiotics. Already on the market in Europe and North America with other registrations underway
Trump is still telling porky pies - now it's that he saw people jump from the World Trade Center on 9/11 from his apartment, which is 4 miles away from the WTC.
CNN has a new Iowa poll which shows Cruz only 2 points back of Trump. Carson is slipping. His poor foreign policy performance actually makes Trump look good.
It is totally baffling why somebody in his position would think (lets be generous and say) embellishing this experience of 9/11. If he had just said he was in NY that day, experienced the fear, etc etc etc, that would have just been as effective.
Also, did he not think that being a candidate for the biggest job in the world, that every story he tells there will be an army of people trying to check the validity of it.
He is not the best example of telling bare faced lies on the campaign trail. That particular honor belongs to - and you knew it - Hillary Clinton.
I do not understand why we want to send the RAF to Syria. It seems like a total basket case and there is plenty of work to do in Iraq.
To be fair: the RAF are based in Cyprus. In order to bomb Iraq they either need to fly around or through Syrian airspace, refuling on the way. Bombing targets in Syria is a milkrun in comparison.
A test pilot has some very, very bad news about the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. The pricey new stealth jet can’t turn or climb fast enough to hit an enemy plane during a dogfight or to dodge the enemy’s own gunfire, the pilot reported following a day of mock air battles back in January. “The F-35 was at a distinct energy disadvantage,” the unnamed pilot wrote in a scathing five-page brief that War Is Boring has obtained. The brief is unclassified but is labeled “for official use only.” The test pilot’s report is the latest evidence of fundamental problems with the design of the F-35 — which, at a total program cost of more than a trillion dollars, is history’s most expensive weapon.
I do have concerns about the F35 actually. Unfortunately, it's far too late to turn back now.
I do not understand why we want to send the RAF to Syria. It seems like a total basket case and there is plenty of work to do in Iraq.
The only reason is to show solidarity with our allies and have an influence on negotiating with Russia and be at the table with decisions that have a direct influence on our own security. Half a dozen or so aircraft will not be a game changer but being there is
Aside from the obvious exception of Israel, I really don't see any distinction between Jews and non-Jews in being targets for extreme Islamic radicalism.
Saw her berthed at Greenwich a couple of years ago. Impressive sight.
HMS Ocean, the "Flagship of the Royal Navy", is to be decommissioned after a multi-million pound refit.
The Ministry of Defence (MoD) confirmed the move would happen in 2018, when HMS Ocean will have "reached the end of her life", despite no mention of it in Monday's Strategic Defence and Security Review.
The Devonport-based helicopter carrier and assault ship, which is Britain's biggest warship, underwent a £65m upgrade in 2014.
Another casualty of the ridiculous, bloated Supercarrier vanity project.
Why use a cheap, inexpensive, effective ship like Ocean when you can roll in a hideously expensive Supercarrier.
Grossadmiral Dairnitz hat gesprochen.
.. he cleaned the windows and he swept the floor, and he polished up the handle of the big front door.
I take it your drooling personal attacks reflect the complete paucity of any argument in favour of the Supercarriers.
I am not an expert in the field, so I probably shouldn't comment as such.
HMS Ocean is on the down cycle of her lifespan - part of the effect of building her to commercial spec. At 20 years a ship in the commercial sector is considered old and is flogged to a rust-bucket line, generally.
Beyond a certain point the maintenance bills really mount up. Bit like the silly idea of trying to buy an ex US Navy carrier - a ship which would be worn out from end to end (including the nuclear power plant!) and needs a vast crew (double what a modern design would need).
I never really understood the argument people wanting to build old US carriers were making. It seemed to be that the US were retiring carriers early as they wanted regular heartbeats of new ones made to keep the shipyards in business. But that still doesn't mean the ships we'd buy had enough life in them to make it worth the massive expense in training, maintenance and crewing.
Do we even have a graving dock big enough for a Nimitz-class, particularly now King George V at Southampton is out of commission?
(BTW, thanks for your posts last night - very illuminating. Unfortunately they'll also be heavy on my wallet, as I've ordered a couple of books).
Back when she was a model, the crew of the USS Nimitz adopted my wife as their mascot - there was a rather fetching (fully clothed) photo of her festooning the ship
A test pilot has some very, very bad news about the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. The pricey new stealth jet can’t turn or climb fast enough to hit an enemy plane during a dogfight or to dodge the enemy’s own gunfire, the pilot reported following a day of mock air battles back in January. “The F-35 was at a distinct energy disadvantage,” the unnamed pilot wrote in a scathing five-page brief that War Is Boring has obtained. The brief is unclassified but is labeled “for official use only.” The test pilot’s report is the latest evidence of fundamental problems with the design of the F-35 — which, at a total program cost of more than a trillion dollars, is history’s most expensive weapon.
I do have concerns about the F35 actually. Unfortunately, it's far too late to turn back now.
So throwing good money after bad; and in all probability a waste of highly trained airmen's lives. (Edit)
My suspicion is that we could be more effective without Trident if we spent our 2% on more conventional weapons but it is not clear cut.
No
Just because the threats of tomorrow (ISIS) are different from the threats of yesterday (Cold War), doesn't mean the old defences are useless.
Don't install the latest firewall/IPS/AV on your laptop, and leave your front door unlocked.
Its not a question of "useless" but think of the Falklands war. We had nuclear weapons and did it stop an invasion of British sovereign soil? Nope, because their use was inconceivable. We made it through but it was a damn near thing and we have far fewer ships (if more bloody admirals) than then even if each one is more powerful.
Thatcher allegedly threatened a nuclear strike against their base at Cordoba if both carriers were sunk and the Argentines refused to withdraw.
I don't believe it and frankly even if she did no one else did either.
A test pilot has some very, very bad news about the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. The pricey new stealth jet can’t turn or climb fast enough to hit an enemy plane during a dogfight or to dodge the enemy’s own gunfire, the pilot reported following a day of mock air battles back in January. “The F-35 was at a distinct energy disadvantage,” the unnamed pilot wrote in a scathing five-page brief that War Is Boring has obtained. The brief is unclassified but is labeled “for official use only.” The test pilot’s report is the latest evidence of fundamental problems with the design of the F-35 — which, at a total program cost of more than a trillion dollars, is history’s most expensive weapon.
I do have concerns about the F35 actually. Unfortunately, it's far too late to turn back now.
The F35 is the most advanced aircraft in the world. Apart from the septics we will have the most technologically advanced fast jet fleet in the world. And future-proofed so far as is possible. Way ahead of anything that the Russians or Chinese will be able to produce in the next 2 decades.
A test pilot has some very, very bad news about the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. The pricey new stealth jet can’t turn or climb fast enough to hit an enemy plane during a dogfight or to dodge the enemy’s own gunfire, the pilot reported following a day of mock air battles back in January. “The F-35 was at a distinct energy disadvantage,” the unnamed pilot wrote in a scathing five-page brief that War Is Boring has obtained. The brief is unclassified but is labeled “for official use only.” The test pilot’s report is the latest evidence of fundamental problems with the design of the F-35 — which, at a total program cost of more than a trillion dollars, is history’s most expensive weapon.
Random and totally non provable article from unnamed 'pilot', that can be found on any number of conspiracy websites. Why bother?
You're better off picking your way through all 401 pages on this thread, with contributions from people who might actually know what they're talking about.
Labour MPs who voted for the anti Trident motion tonight
Ronnie Campbell Roger Godsiff Kelvin Hopkins Geoffrey Robinson Dennis Skinner Graham Stringer
Labour MPs who voted in favour
Kevin Barron Ben Bradshaw Mary Creagh Chris Evans Jim Fitzpatrick Liz Kendall Chris Leslie Madeleine Moon Albert Owen Jamie Reed Emma Reynolds Angela Smith Gisela Stuart John Woodcock
For the first time ever I'm in a position where a by election result will please me. If UKIP win I'm delighted and surprised, if labour win its "I told you so". Most importantly this election will tell us all what the working class think of the Tories and Libs.
Comments
https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/669221724634771456
By a pocket borough into Parliament
"Finally the government must include in its plan “measures to strengthen community cohesion, give our police the resources they need, and prevent extremism from finding a voice in our communities.”
And in that sentence Jarvis destroys any hope that he might be a worthwhile leader in waiting. Platitudes and calls for increased spending are not good enough.
I spent today in Detroit talking about piglet diarhhoea.
(And @HurstLlama - I have some more insight on that Chinese antibiotic resistant bug that was concerning you)
This week has shown the Labour Party can't go on like this forever. It can't be an endless cycle of angry PLP meetings, divisions at the top and traded insults. One of two things will happen. The membership will come to their senses and Corbyn will be forced out, or the membership will sustain Corbyn/McDonnell/AN Other Hard Leftie in office and those that disagree will be deselected or will find themselves forced to go elsewhere.
Beyond a certain point the maintenance bills really mount up. Bit like the silly idea of trying to buy an ex US Navy carrier - a ship which would be worn out from end to end (including the nuclear power plant!) and needs a vast crew (double what a modern design would need).
I always voted at my party's call
And I never thought of thinking for myself at all.
I thought so little they rewarded me ..."
For all the loud barking Kendalls, Danzucks and Ummunas, their numbers are scarce, you can call them the Very Loud Small Minority.
To quote Mick Jagger from many years ago - I am a non-conformist, exactly like many thousands of others.
Besides the paw arrived and rather than face another battle of wills I gave her a biscuit.
Her grasp of English is appalling
Present - 30/06/16 ........ 9/2
01/07/15 - 31/12/16 ....... 6/1
01/01/17 - 31/12/17 ....... 7/1
01/01/18 - 31/12/18 ....... 7/1
01/01/19 - 31/04/20 ....... 7/1
Beyond 31/04/20 ............ 6/4
They have not released the dash video yet - they have to by tomorrow afternoon apparently.
Burnham and Cooper are finished (see their very poor ratings amongst Corbynites who see them as losers) and Benn does not seem to have much support
In response to Steve's question to give some examples -
1. Kier Starmer: Rise above it and ignore day to day PLP politics for the first year. Get some national profile and entrench locally. Wait to see which way the wind blows.
2. Dan Jarvis: be slightly rebellious but nod to the centre/soft left by being 'had headed' but not gung ho on defence and build your profile on other policy areas.
3. Lisa Nandy: be loyal but quiet so as not to be too associated with the heid the balls and throw in the occasional olive branch to the centre/right by criticising the more egregious and non-comradely behaviour of Team Jezza - eg. Ken's outburst last week.
4. Clive Lewis - jump on the bandwagon, try and get all your colleagues de-selected and hope for a permanent leftward shift.
5. Tom Watson: Don't be openly disloyal (till it suits you), build your links around the country in your campaigning role (being careful not to get defeats pinned to you) and conspire with the brothers in the background.
If we only used defence spending on defeating ISIS we'd be up the proverbial creek when it kicks off wherever the next big threat is going to come from.
If you are a backbencher, repudiate Corbyn's message, supporters and platform at every opportunity.
Explain you were elected on a non-Corbyn platform, say you will offer him as much loyalty as he showed previous leaders and vote against the whip as often as your conscience dictates.
And point out that winning elections is part of the Labour Party constitution, and since Corbynism won't win a single seat you could argue that his leadership is a breach of party rules
@kkabdn: NEWS: Nicola Sturgeon adds there are "no issues with the {SNP candidate} vetting process." "Neither {suspended MP has} done anything wrong"
Brave words, Nicola
Why do you both feel the demands are impossible? To me, they're rather weak - basically a demand for a bunch of fine words.
Athletics is still bad. The whole Russian doping scandal.
They need to ditch all these national and particular sport doping outfits and let WADA do the whole damned thing.
An independent nuclear deterrent is a ticket to the top table and it is hard to argue that the UK does not gain from that. But the threats we are facing in the next 20 years look very, very different from those I was aware of in the 1970s when my dad was an officer in the BAOR.
Are we safer from the likes of Daash if we were capable of deploying, say 10K men with proper airborne support than when we have nuclear weapons under the sea? Those that would say that is the wrong question would point to Ukraine. Would Putin have behaved the way he has if they had kept their nuclear weapons? Almost certainly not but we are in a very different geographical position.
My suspicion is that we could be more effective without Trident if we spent our 2% on more conventional weapons but it is not clear cut.
So expect angry noises for a week or so and then everyone to move on, with the Russians giving Turkish airspace a wider berth.
Has there been an equipment limitation in our response against Al-Q or ISIL that not funding Trident would have solved?
As far as I can see, the problem has been the very slow adaptability of the procurement process in providing equipment that responds to rapidly evolving guerilla warfare.
Just because the threats of tomorrow (ISIS) are different from the threats of yesterday (Cold War), doesn't mean the old defences are useless.
Don't install the latest firewall/IPS/AV on your laptop, and leave your front door unlocked.
Dear PM if you do not do exactly what we want then we will take all of our massive 8 votes away so there.....
Translation = Violet says 'Ill scream and scream and scream!' if she doesn't get her way..
They will heavily hit Turkish proxies in Syria, already doing so.
Continue destroying the IS-Turkish oil trade.
Continue squeezing Turkish-Russian trade which a weak Turkish economy is dependent on.
http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/10/turkey-russia-syria-isis-economic-threats.html#
Shoot down any Turkish planes entering Syrian or Iraqi airspace, giving safehaven to the Kurds.
More concerned what we do frankly, the statements coming out from NATO and European capitals clearly indicate, Turkey is on its own. The last thing we should do is get involved in Syrian airspace.
Do we even have a graving dock big enough for a Nimitz-class, particularly now King George V at Southampton is out of commission?
(BTW, thanks for your posts last night - very illuminating. Unfortunately they'll also be heavy on my wallet, as I've ordered a couple of books).
And where will Russians go for beach holidays? Eygpt is out and now Turkey. Bulgaria? I fear the Costa Blanca, or rather fear for it. It will sink under the weight of bling.
And how weak is the Russian economy at the moment, especially with the sanctions in place after their 'adventures' in Ukraine and elsewhere combined with low oil prices?
Basically the resistance has been observed in pigs and poultry to an antibiotic that has been banned in some markets in the West for many years (cancer signals as a side effect). They are right that the gene may mutate and spread to humans - but the impact won't be the "end of antibiotics" as the press likes to emote - but it could be that this specific class of antibiotics becomes non-viable
Fortunately there are two good pieces of news.
1. The WHO/European authorities realised this risk several years ago and have been instituting reforms such that all new classes of antibiotics are designated for human or for animal use only. Legacy antibiotics are being much more restricted in their use in animals, primarily so they are used for therapeutic purposes only rather than for prevention or growth promotion
2. There's a lovely little vaccine that can replace the the need for these specific antibiotics. Already on the market in Europe and North America with other registrations underway
The first commercial in every break for almost an hour - Turkish Airlines.
CNN has a new Iowa poll which shows Cruz only 2 points back of Trump. Carson is slipping. His poor foreign policy performance actually makes Trump look good.
"The Joint Strike Fighter is the most expensive weapons system ever developed. It is plagued by design flaws and cost overruns. It flies only in good weather. The computers that run it lack the software they need for combat. No one can say for certain when the plane will work as advertised. Until recently, the prime contractor, Lockheed Martin, was operating with a free hand—paid handsomely for its own mistakes. Looking back, even the general now in charge of the program can’t believe how we got to this point. In sum: all systems go!"
Also, did he not think that being a candidate for the biggest job in the world, that every story he tells there will be an army of people trying to check the validity of it.
A test pilot has some very, very bad news about the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. The pricey new stealth jet can’t turn or climb fast enough to hit an enemy plane during a dogfight or to dodge the enemy’s own gunfire, the pilot reported following a day of mock air battles back in January.
“The F-35 was at a distinct energy disadvantage,” the unnamed pilot wrote in a scathing five-page brief that War Is Boring has obtained. The brief is unclassified but is labeled “for official use only.”
The test pilot’s report is the latest evidence of fundamental problems with the design of the F-35 — which, at a total program cost of more than a trillion dollars, is history’s most expensive weapon.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/feb/8/jospeh-curl-forget-brian-williams-its-hillary-clin/?page=all
Rumours of some attempt to attack the US in some shape or form (possibly indirect) in the coming days are also rather persistent.
Trump 38%
Cruz 11.6%
Carson 11.5%
Rubio 8.2%
http://polling.reuters.com/#poll/TR130/filters/PARTY_ID_:2/dates/20151123-20151124/type/day
You're better off picking your way through all 401 pages on this thread, with contributions from people who might actually know what they're talking about.
http://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/424953-f-35-cancelled-then-what-401.html
Ronnie Campbell
Roger Godsiff
Kelvin Hopkins
Geoffrey Robinson
Dennis Skinner
Graham Stringer
Labour MPs who voted in favour
Kevin Barron
Ben Bradshaw
Mary Creagh
Chris Evans
Jim Fitzpatrick
Liz Kendall
Chris Leslie
Madeleine Moon
Albert Owen
Jamie Reed
Emma Reynolds
Angela Smith
Gisela Stuart
John Woodcock