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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » So what happened to the long-term plan, George?

SystemSystem Posts: 6,199
edited November 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » So what happened to the long-term plan, George?

George Osborne is fond of saying that he’s fixing the roof while the sun is shining. Well, this week he decided to knock off early and catch some rays. After all, what’s the rush? It’s not going to rain overnight. Mañana.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • RobDRobD Posts: 32,867
    First!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 32,867
    Glorious first ;)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 18,108
    Turd
  • The danger, as with Blair and Brown, is that the dominance in the centre comes at the cost of office-holding for its own sake which not only has a tendency to develop unhealthy relationships with client voting groups

    At least Osborne has had the wit to pander to pensioners who vote......

    But yes, the Tories are getting a breathtakingly easy ride - their major sex/bullying scandal is going almost un-noticed - despite the best efforts of the left wing press Sun and Mail, who are making most of the running - and as Jonathan Freedland observes:

    Allowing them to escape scrutiny on a day when they should be under pressure, so that Labour’s economics spokesman spends his few precious minutes of airtime not lambasting the cuts that will disfigure the landscape of this country, but debating the record of China’s murderous dictator. All because of the vanity that thought it more important to make a juvenile joke than to speak for the people who are, and who will be, hit hardest by a Tory government unbound.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/27/misstep-corbyn-terror-mao-labour-alienating-supporters
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 2,663
    FPT

    12:18AM
    HYUFD said:
    » show previous quotes
    Abbott Shadow Foreign Secretary, McDonnell Shadow Chancellor, Dennis Skinner Shadow Home Secretary, David Lammy Justice Secretary, Cat Smith Defence
    You mentioned David Lammy and, although it's old, it's still hilarious, I offer you DL on Mastermind
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 19,910
    Osborne has a long-term political plan, not a long-term economic plan.
  • TomTom Posts: 273
    I had to read the full Summer 2015 Budget, Prodctivity plan and autumn statement. I hadn't realised quite how much like Gordon Brown, George osborne is. Hubristic self congratulation combined with constantly shifting targets, hidden detail, presentation of data to avoid comparison with previous budgets, re-announcement of previous plans and targets and gimmickry. In addition to irresponsible pro cyclical boost to the housing market.

    Given the economic cycle there is a reasonable chance of recession/downturn before 2020 and almost a certainty there will be one before 2025. In those circumstances it's not impossible he will suffer the same fate as brown - humiliation after getting the job you spent your entire career scheming for.
  • Its not like Osborne has ever been quite as devoted to reducing the deficit as either he or his detractors tend to claim. He eased off in the last two years of the last parliament and thus got growth.

    I'd call it a good thing, it tends to reign his plans back into the realm of sanity, and will ultimately deal with the deficit more effectively than a full on hairshirt strategy.
  • Someone posted the other day that Thatcher over her decade in office reduced the state as a proportion of GDP by 6.8% while Osborne after five years has reduced it by 6% already. At this rate I'd expect Osborne to beat Thatchers record without being seen as to the right of Thatcher.
  • William_H said:

    Its not like Osborne has ever been quite as devoted to reducing the deficit as either he or his detractors tend to claim. He eased off in the last two years of the last parliament and thus got growth..

    Nor was Thatcher as inflexible as her hagiographers would have you believe - you don't get and hold power by being principled inflexible. As Corbyn is testing to destruction.....
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 45,077

    Someone posted the other day that Thatcher over her decade in office reduced the state as a proportion of GDP by 6.8% while Osborne after five years has reduced it by 6% already. At this rate I'd expect Osborne to beat Thatchers record without being seen as to the right of Thatcher.

    Osborne has learnt the golden rule of cuts methinks:

    Mr & Mrs Smith with their 3 kids currently receive 3 big bag of sweets courtesy of Gordon B.

    Osborne wanted to take away 2 bags of sweets, but the Smiths kicked up such a rumpus to their local MP, Tory A (Whose vote Osborne needs to win the leadership election) that he decided it wasn't worth his while.

    So Mr and Mrs Junior Jones who will be having 3 kids by 2019 will however be getting half a bag of sweets courtesy of IDS. They won't have splashed out on the 55" TV that Mr & Smith will have done.

    Long term obviously there is far more Junior Jones than Smiths. Hence the finances get in order.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 45,077
    Sounds like a smorgasbord of brown nosing, shagging, illegal drugs, bullying, sexual harrasment & blackmail.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Sounds like a smorgasbord of brown nosing, shagging, illegal drugs, bullying, sexual harrasment & blackmail.
    And in normal circumstances it would be leading the news.....however, thanks to Seamus Milne's brilliant media operation.....
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 45,077

    Pulpstar said:

    Sounds like a smorgasbord of brown nosing, shagging, illegal drugs, bullying, sexual harrasment & blackmail.
    And in normal circumstances it would be leading the news.....however, thanks to Seamus Milne's brilliant media operation.....
    ^_^
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited November 2015

    Pulpstar said:

    Sounds like a smorgasbord of brown nosing, shagging, illegal drugs, bullying, sexual harrasment & blackmail.
    And in normal circumstances it would be leading the news.....however, thanks to Seamus Milne's brilliant media operation.....
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/12021991/Tory-chairman-should-quit-over-bullying-scandal.html

    "Tory chairman Lord Feldman and Grant Shapps 'should quit' over Mark Clarke bullying scandal

    Ray Johnson, whose 21-year-old son Elliott committed suicide after he was allegedly bullied by Mark Clarke, says Grant Shapps and Lord Feldman should quit"

    Anyone disagree?
  • Pong said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sounds like a smorgasbord of brown nosing, shagging, illegal drugs, bullying, sexual harrasment & blackmail.
    And in normal circumstances it would be leading the news.....however, thanks to Seamus Milne's brilliant media operation.....
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/12021991/Tory-chairman-should-quit-over-bullying-scandal.html

    "Tory chairman Lord Feldman and Grant Shapps 'should quit' over Mark Clarke bullying scandal

    Ray Johnson, whose 21-year-old son Elliott committed suicide after he was allegedly bullied by Mark Clarke, says Grant Shapps and Lord Feldman should quit"

    Anyone disagree?
    I think it might be better to follow due process......
  • MPs should be able to follow their "own judgement" on possible air strikes over Syria, the shadow chancellor has said.
  • MPs should be able to follow their "own judgement" on possible air strikes over Syria, the shadow chancellor has said.

    I wonder what his judgment is?

    Ken has gone from 3line whip to conscience.

    We know Corbyn is "no", while Watson and Benn are "yes" - it's a right old buggers muddle....
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 29,067
    edited November 2015
    Interesting article on Corbyn's Foreign Policy beliefs:

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/gary-kent/jeremy-corbyn-and-british-foreign-policy

    The consistent theme in Corbyn's foreign policy is a Chomskyian antagonism to America.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited November 2015

    Pong said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sounds like a smorgasbord of brown nosing, shagging, illegal drugs, bullying, sexual harrasment & blackmail.
    And in normal circumstances it would be leading the news.....however, thanks to Seamus Milne's brilliant media operation.....
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/12021991/Tory-chairman-should-quit-over-bullying-scandal.html

    "Tory chairman Lord Feldman and Grant Shapps 'should quit' over Mark Clarke bullying scandal

    Ray Johnson, whose 21-year-old son Elliott committed suicide after he was allegedly bullied by Mark Clarke, says Grant Shapps and Lord Feldman should quit"

    Anyone disagree?
    I think it might be better to follow due process......
    I mean, as decent human beings they should quit.
  • Pong said:

    Pong said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sounds like a smorgasbord of brown nosing, shagging, illegal drugs, bullying, sexual harrasment & blackmail.
    And in normal circumstances it would be leading the news.....however, thanks to Seamus Milne's brilliant media operation.....
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/12021991/Tory-chairman-should-quit-over-bullying-scandal.html

    "Tory chairman Lord Feldman and Grant Shapps 'should quit' over Mark Clarke bullying scandal

    Ray Johnson, whose 21-year-old son Elliott committed suicide after he was allegedly bullied by Mark Clarke, says Grant Shapps and Lord Feldman should quit"

    Anyone disagree?
    I think it might be better to follow due process......
    I mean, as decent human beings they should quit.
    I can understand the entirely natural reaction of the grief stricken father - and in due course, if the allegations of cover up/poor management are well founded I agree - but I don't want to see this buried under "they've resigned, we've moved on, nothing to see".
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 31,711
    A splendid piece, by which I mean it articulates many thoughts I've been having about Osborne and the Tory position. He's taken a gamble he could only take with little fuss due to labour's woes, a gamble that everything will be just fine for some time. If he's lucky it will preserve his reputation. If he's not, he looks massively incompetent at meeting his own goals, and undermines the Tory offer among those who support austerity and those who don't. It's short term, lazy thinking, and the Tories should be under greater pressure for their failures. It is inconceivable that they will continue to get an easy ride politically on such things.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 5,575
    Pong said:

    Pong said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sounds like a smorgasbord of brown nosing, shagging, illegal drugs, bullying, sexual harrasment & blackmail.
    And in normal circumstances it would be leading the news.....however, thanks to Seamus Milne's brilliant media operation.....
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/12021991/Tory-chairman-should-quit-over-bullying-scandal.html

    "Tory chairman Lord Feldman and Grant Shapps 'should quit' over Mark Clarke bullying scandal

    Ray Johnson, whose 21-year-old son Elliott committed suicide after he was allegedly bullied by Mark Clarke, says Grant Shapps and Lord Feldman should quit"

    Anyone disagree?
    I think it might be better to follow due process......
    I mean, as decent human beings they should quit.
    I think we should wait and see. I have not read what happened but knee jerk reactions are not always the best decisions..

    Were you calling for Brown to quit when he was accused of misdemeanours in No 10?
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Excellent piece Mr Herdson. Until recently I'd had a quiet admiration for Osborne, I thought he quietly went about a difficult task. But it seems he suffers from hubris just as much as Cameron, the two of them are inextricably linked in every respect.

    They've been incredibly lucky, after the human shield that was Clegg they've been presented with Corbyn, but the time will shortly arrive where he'll be judged on his own results. The EU vote has temporarily gone off the agenda which is more good news for Osborne but that will soon come back which he'll have to deal with.

    I've a feeling 1 or 2 self satisfied Tories might be eating some humble pie before long.
  • Someone posted the other day that Thatcher over her decade in office reduced the state as a proportion of GDP by 6.8% while Osborne after five years has reduced it by 6% already. At this rate I'd expect Osborne to beat Thatchers record without being seen as to the right of Thatcher.

    The trick is, or should be, to grow the economy. The United States spends far less than us as a proportion of GDP but actually spends more in cash terms per head of population.
  • kle4 said:

    A splendid piece, by which I mean it articulates many thoughts I've been having about Osborne and the Tory position. He's taken a gamble he could only take with little fuss due to labour's woes, a gamble that everything will be just fine for some time. If he's lucky it will preserve his reputation. If he's not, he looks massively incompetent at meeting his own goals, and undermines the Tory offer among those who support austerity and those who don't. It's short term, lazy thinking, and the Tories should be under greater pressure for their failures. It is inconceivable that they will continue to get an easy ride politically on such things.

    Its ironic that as Corbyn moves to the left, applauded by the vocal minority to the left of him, and the (more or less silent) despair of those to the right of him, Osborne moves to the centre, criticised by the vocal minority to the right of him, but to the (more or less silent) satisfaction of those around him......
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    I thought we'd have a little quiz, I'll go first, who said:


    "Control immigration, reducing it to the levels of the 1990s- meaning tens of thousands a year instead of the hundreds of thousands a year under Labour"

    "This our contract with you".

  • Has George Osborne really pivoted to the centre, or is the tax credits (which remember started as a right wing policy) distracting attention from real cuts to the spending departments?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 20,280

    Has George Osborne really pivoted to the centre, or is the tax credits (which remember started as a right wing policy) distracting attention from real cuts to the spending departments?

    We'll know in a couple of years.
  • Cutting Short money to opposition parties seems to have gone largely unremarked, though Richard Nabavi flagged it up shortly after Osborne sat down.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 9,940

    I thought we'd have a little quiz, I'll go first, who said:


    "Control immigration, reducing it to the levels of the 1990s- meaning tens of thousands a year instead of the hundreds of thousands a year under Labour"

    "This our contract with you".

    Same person who is now at highest ever level of net immigration.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Has George Osborne really pivoted to the centre, or is the tax credits (which remember started as a right wing policy) distracting attention from real cuts to the spending departments?

    There have been some pretty significant cuts to the non-NHS DoH. Public Health down by 25% for example, and ending of student bursaries for nurse training so that nurses will now have the same student debt as any other student.

    The commodity and oil glut does signal to me that the Chinese and developing market situation is worse than it first appears. The chance of another recession is very real.
  • I thought we'd have a little quiz, I'll go first, who said:


    "Control immigration, reducing it to the levels of the 1990s- meaning tens of thousands a year instead of the hundreds of thousands a year under Labour"

    "This our contract with you".

    Same person who is now at highest ever level of net immigration.
    And in his 6th year as PM.......
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 9,940
    edited November 2015

    Has George Osborne really pivoted to the centre, or is the tax credits (which remember started as a right wing policy) distracting attention from real cuts to the spending departments?

    There have been some pretty significant cuts to the non-NHS DoH. Public Health down by 25% for example, and ending of student bursaries for nurse training so that nurses will now have the same student debt as any other student.

    The commodity and oil glut does signal to me that the Chinese and developing market situation is worse than it first appears. The chance of another recession is very real.
    DH has also given away £1.2bn of its 2016-17 capital budget in return for the £3.8 bn revenue budget increase.
  • Has George Osborne really pivoted to the centre, or is the tax credits (which remember started as a right wing policy) distracting attention from real cuts to the spending departments?

    There have been some pretty significant cuts to the non-NHS DoH. Public Health down by 25% for example, and ending of student bursaries for nurse training so that nurses will now have the same student debt as any other student.

    The commodity and oil glut does signal to me that the Chinese and developing market situation is worse than it first appears. The chance of another recession is very real.
    Booms feed investment. We had a huge commodity boom. And huge investment based on China growing at 9%pa forever. It's now nearer 5% .

    So lots of capacity in oil, steel. copper etc.. Hence huge price falls.. which help consumers...

    The problem in commodities is not lack of demand - car sales and oil usage are growing worldwide... BUT capacity has huge surpluses.

    All economic recoveries feed off low energy prices.
  • Good morning, everyone.

    Aye, Osborne had a soft budget.

    F1: P3 is 10-11am.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 8,516
    The cosmic clusterfuck going on in Labour is definitely obscuring early signs of decay in the Tory party.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 3,348
    http://new.spectator.co.uk/2015/11/jeremy-corbyn-is-more-sensible-about-syria-than-david-cameron/

    I thought I would link this article , just to get some small smidgeon of balance on PB.
    I did not vote for Corbyn but every now and again a party needs some chaos to bring differnt views to the table.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    This very very good :lol:

    "Today, every household has one. But this particular edition is special. For this is the very copy of the Little Red Book — or to give it its formal name, Quotations From Chairman Mao Tse-Tung — from which John McDonnell, once the Labour Party’s Shadow Chancellor, now People’s Chancellor and Co-Author of the Revolution, quoted in the House of Commons one November day several years ago.

    Every schoolchild knows the story. How the capitalist hyenas and imperialist running dogs — the hated David Cameron and George Osborne — sat there roaring their heads off after their Autumn Statement.
    How the people’s hero, Comrade McDonnell, stood firm against the braying laughter of the Tory jackals, proudly brandishing his beloved edition of Chairman Mao’s wise words."


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3336942/Chairman-Corbyn-s-Maoist-Britain-Clarkson-education-camp-giant-posters-people-s-hero-Diane-Abbott-compulsory-ping-pong-historian-s-brilliantly-witty-chilling-vision-future.html#ixzz3slpg5WmB
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Jonathan said:

    The cosmic clusterfuck going on in Labour is definitely obscuring early signs of decay in the Tory party.

    I agree. Jeremy Hunts mismanaging of the NHS is a major turd airborne towards a very big fan.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 37,244
    @tnewtondunn: David Cameron wants a Commons vote on Syria air strikes next Wednesday - ministers ringing Labour MPs this weekend; https://t.co/sfhqRRPWHf
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 37,244
    The obvious next step is to appoint a separate leader of the PLP. There are models in other countries where sister parties separate the role of party leader and parliamentary leader, but this is not a party reform – it is a simple seizure of power, a coup.

    Remember that the role of Opposition is a parliamentary one. If the Parliamentary Labour Party declared no confidence in Jeremy Corbyn as leader of the PLP and replaced him with their own choice of parliamentary group leader then things would change.

    Let Corbyn attend as many Stop The War demonstrations and meetings of the activist grassroots movement Momentum as he wants – he would have plenty of time as he wouldn’t have shadow cabinet to attend or Prime Minister’s Questions to attend to.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/12021977/Labour-MPs-have-only-one-option-a-mutiny.html
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 16,986
    A George is crap thread !

    I would of course question the statement "The economy is growing healthily,"

    It isn't.

    Our productive industries are struggling ( manufacturing, construction ) and still below the level of Labour. We saw he effects on the last GDP figures where once again the BoP is a drag on our economic prospects.

    Osborne has not rebalanced the economy in the last 5 years and won't in the next he has no plan for it, Rather Osbornism is Gordon Brown's borrow and spend played in second gear.

    I never understand why so many righties on PB who wailed for years about Brown's policies seem happy with them just because it's a Conservative imp-lementing them.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 20,280

    Jonathan said:

    The cosmic clusterfuck going on in Labour is definitely obscuring early signs of decay in the Tory party.

    I agree. Jeremy Hunts mismanaging of the NHS is a major turd airborne towards a very big fan.

    You might perhaps be a little too close to this to be an unbiased observer ...
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 5,575
    edited November 2015

    Jonathan said:

    The cosmic clusterfuck going on in Labour is definitely obscuring early signs of decay in the Tory party.

    I agree. Jeremy Hunts mismanaging of the NHS is a major turd airborne towards a very big fan.

    Nah.. Junior doctors of today have no idea of what real work is.. Ask one of their seniors in their 60's what real work is.. my late wife did one in two's, it was expected and you learned fast.

    Compare this to my GP surgery where there is NO out of hours service and if you are ill call 101.. No wonder A and E is so overloaded.
    Wait till the Doctors strike, public support will vanish , in many ways this will be a good thing. the halo's doctors live under should be earned not given as a right.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    I thought we'd have a little quiz, I'll go first, who said:


    "Control immigration, reducing it to the levels of the 1990s- meaning tens of thousands a year instead of the hundreds of thousands a year under Labour"

    "This our contract with you".

    Same person who is now at highest ever level of net immigration.
    And in his 6th year as PM.......
    Our resident Tory cheerleader Mr TSE is now celebrating the immigration figures as the economy grows. If we doubled the population the economy would grow, I can't think of any possible downside.



  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Jonathan said:

    The cosmic clusterfuck going on in Labour is definitely obscuring early signs of decay in the Tory party.

    I agree. Jeremy Hunts mismanaging of the NHS is a major turd airborne towards a very big fan.

    You ain't seen nothing yet wait until the referendum gets closer.

  • Michael Dugher MP tweets: 1,300+ RAF missions in northern Iraq resulted in 330 ISIL killed by UK airstrikes, 0 civilian casualties + ISIL lost 30% of its territory.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 16,986

    Jonathan said:

    The cosmic clusterfuck going on in Labour is definitely obscuring early signs of decay in the Tory party.

    I agree. Jeremy Hunts mismanaging of the NHS is a major turd airborne towards a very big fan.

    You might perhaps be a little too close to this to be an unbiased observer ...
    So you wont be commenting on Turkey ? :-)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 20,280

    I thought we'd have a little quiz, I'll go first, who said:


    "Control immigration, reducing it to the levels of the 1990s- meaning tens of thousands a year instead of the hundreds of thousands a year under Labour"

    "This our contract with you".

    Same person who is now at highest ever level of net immigration.
    And in his 6th year as PM.......
    Our resident Tory cheerleader Mr TSE is now celebrating the immigration figures as the economy grows. If we doubled the population the economy would grow, I can't think of any possible downside.
    Given your position on the foreign aid budget was shown to be based firmly in 0% knowledge, can we assume your position on immigration is similarly instinctive and clueless?
  • felixfelix Posts: 7,681

    I thought we'd have a little quiz, I'll go first, who said:


    "Control immigration, reducing it to the levels of the 1990s- meaning tens of thousands a year instead of the hundreds of thousands a year under Labour"

    "This our contract with you".

    Same person who is now at highest ever level of net immigration.
    Same person as the one who has secured record levels of employment - of course Labour hates that in case it cuts the benefit vote.
  • Jonathan said:

    The cosmic clusterfuck going on in Labour is definitely obscuring early signs of decay in the Tory party.

    Yes. If the Tory leadership obsessively follow the Blair/Brown mantra then their party will end up, eventually, in exactly the same place Labour is now, and for not dissimilar reasons.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 18,108
    Normally in a five year term you would expect the real tough stuff to be done in the first year. By backing off the tax credits cuts, Osborne has left the risk that in 2020, the worst of the impacts of Universal Credit will still be shaking out.

    Which leaves me musing "hmmmmmm...." Maybe we aren't looking at a five year term? With Labour in turmoil, the LibDems still flatlining, the SNP still bed-blocking any chance of Labour making a recovery in Scotland - might the plan be to have a snap election as soon as the new Tory leader is installed after the referendum, maybe as early as 2017?
  • felixfelix Posts: 7,681

    Jonathan said:

    The cosmic clusterfuck going on in Labour is definitely obscuring early signs of decay in the Tory party.

    I agree. Jeremy Hunts mismanaging of the NHS is a major turd airborne towards a very big fan.

    I'm shocked - NHS producer critical of NHS reformer who puts the customer first.
  • felixfelix Posts: 7,681
    Scott_P said:

    @tnewtondunn: David Cameron wants a Commons vote on Syria air strikes next Wednesday - ministers ringing Labour MPs this weekend; https://t.co/sfhqRRPWHf

    Lol - day before the Oldham by-election.
  • "The danger, as with Blair and Brown, is that the dominance in the centre comes at the cost of office-holding for its own sake which not only has a tendency to develop unhealthy relationships with client voting groups but also leaves a party lacking in ideological direction. Playing against sub-par opposition also allows laziness to creep into your own game."

    This is spot on David. The Tory leadership is right to believe they had a narrow escape in May, and still suffer from perceptions they are for the rich and uncaring about social justice.

    However, that doesn't mean the solution is to emulate New Labour.

    That is lazy.
  • felixfelix Posts: 7,681

    Jonathan said:

    The cosmic clusterfuck going on in Labour is definitely obscuring early signs of decay in the Tory party.

    I agree. Jeremy Hunts mismanaging of the NHS is a major turd airborne towards a very big fan.

    You might perhaps be a little too close to this to be an unbiased observer ...
    So you wont be commenting on Turkey ? :-)
    He prefers goose for Xmas dinner - watch your back Brookey :)
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    I thought we'd have a little quiz, I'll go first, who said:


    "Control immigration, reducing it to the levels of the 1990s- meaning tens of thousands a year instead of the hundreds of thousands a year under Labour"

    "This our contract with you".

    Same person who is now at highest ever level of net immigration.
    And in his 6th year as PM.......
    Our resident Tory cheerleader Mr TSE is now celebrating the immigration figures as the economy grows. If we doubled the population the economy would grow, I can't think of any possible downside.
    Given your position on the foreign aid budget was shown to be based firmly in 0% knowledge, can we assume your position on immigration is similarly instinctive and clueless?
    Haha! You do love throwing insults around Mr Jessop, I told you repeatedly that I believe we waste too much money overseas, none of your posturing convinced me otherwise.

    And now it appears you're arguing black is white regarding immigration.

    The rule of debate is that he who insults first is lost, you might like to consider that when you continually call people names. I'm very comfortable with my stance on foreign aid and immigration and the impact it has on our economy, nothing you've said on either has made me reconsider.
  • Mr. Mark, it's trickier now, with the Fixed Term Parliament Act. Not saying it can't be done, just that a snap election will be seen as more dramatic/unexpected than before.

    Labour right now are not so much uncertain whether to go via Scylla or Charybdis, but doing both and then embarking on an archaeological dig to free Typhon.

    However, this hard left madness will not last forever (either Labour stops being mad or a new party will take over their standing). And if the Conservatives spend the next few years marvelling at how well they're doing, as if it's down to their excellence and not Labour's infighting, then we could see an election (maybe in 2025 rather than 2020) with an absolutely enormous swing away from the blues.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    UKIP 15/8 with paddy I'm genuinely surprised, turning out to be a fascinating contest.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 20,280

    Jonathan said:

    The cosmic clusterfuck going on in Labour is definitely obscuring early signs of decay in the Tory party.

    I agree. Jeremy Hunts mismanaging of the NHS is a major turd airborne towards a very big fan.

    You might perhaps be a little too close to this to be an unbiased observer ...
    So you wont be commenting on Turkey ? :-)
    But I'm not close to Turkey. I'm not Turkish, and can't speak or read the language. It's just that when I married a beautiful Turkish lady, I decided to learn about the country by reading and talking to people. When we decided to have a child, I decided to do even more.

    So when people come and speak about the country, I have at least a little amount of knowledge to either agree or disagree. When they speak utter b/s about it, then I've got a lot of information to the contrary.

    I criticise Turkey as much as I feel able (and as I've said in the past, that in itself is a negative comment on the country's government), but will argue for them when the conspiracy theorists and loons (not mutually exclusive groups) come out to play.

    The biggest mistake people make on here when talking about Turkey is in assuming it is a government similar to ours. It is not, and the rules of politics are very different.

    I'm annoyed that the asshats on here have actually had me defending Erdogan. It's not a position I like to take ...
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 16,986

    Jonathan said:

    The cosmic clusterfuck going on in Labour is definitely obscuring early signs of decay in the Tory party.

    I agree. Jeremy Hunts mismanaging of the NHS is a major turd airborne towards a very big fan.

    You might perhaps be a little too close to this to be an unbiased observer ...
    So you wont be commenting on Turkey ? :-)
    But I'm not close to Turkey. I'm not Turkish, and can't speak or read the language. It's just that when I married a beautiful Turkish lady, I decided to learn about the country by reading and talking to people. When we decided to have a child, I decided to do even more.

    So when people come and speak about the country, I have at least a little amount of knowledge to either agree or disagree. When they speak utter b/s about it, then I've got a lot of information to the contrary.

    I criticise Turkey as much as I feel able (and as I've said in the past, that in itself is a negative comment on the country's government), but will argue for them when the conspiracy theorists and loons (not mutually exclusive groups) come out to play.

    The biggest mistake people make on here when talking about Turkey is in assuming it is a government similar to ours. It is not, and the rules of politics are very different.

    I'm annoyed that the asshats on here have actually had me defending Erdogan. It's not a position I like to take ...
    Mr JJ you;re taking a friendly wind up the wrong way.

  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited November 2015

    A George is crap thread !

    I would of course question the statement "The economy is growing healthily,"

    It isn't.

    Our productive industries are struggling ( manufacturing, construction ) and still below the level of Labour. We saw he effects on the last GDP figures where once again the BoP is a drag on our economic prospects.

    Osborne has not rebalanced the economy in the last 5 years and won't in the next he has no plan for it, Rather Osbornism is Gordon Brown's borrow and spend played in second gear.

    I never understand why so many righties on PB who wailed for years about Brown's policies seem happy with them just because it's a Conservative imp-lementing them.

    Good morning all, the weekend is here and I can see at least three big problems for our economy in the not too distant future:

    1. China is slowing down and it's stock market - still a relative baby - is falling rapidly.

    2. The lack of nuclear power plants means that Britain will still be massively reliant on overseas gas and oil, to heat our houses and fuel our industries, such as they are. Wind, water and sun power are still far from economical and indeed wasteful at the present time.

    3. The EU economy as a whole is shrinking and with literally millions of new migrants, refugees, immigrants, call them what you will, to feed house and cloth them, the wealth of Europe as a whole is draining away.

    Another big problem for us is how the sacred NHS is eating large holes in Georges pocket and if it isn't reformed from top to bottom - a painful process - it will devour even more wealth from the economy as Britain approaches 70 million inhabitants.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Jonathan said:

    The cosmic clusterfuck going on in Labour is definitely obscuring early signs of decay in the Tory party.

    I agree. Jeremy Hunts mismanaging of the NHS is a major turd airborne towards a very big fan.

    You might perhaps be a little too close to this to be an unbiased observer ...
    So you wont be commenting on Turkey ? :-)
    But I'm not close to Turkey. I'm not Turkish, and can't speak or read the language. It's just that when I married a beautiful Turkish lady, I decided to learn about the country by reading and talking to people. When we decided to have a child, I decided to do even more.

    So when people come and speak about the country, I have at least a little amount of knowledge to either agree or disagree. When they speak utter b/s about it, then I've got a lot of information to the contrary.

    I criticise Turkey as much as I feel able (and as I've said in the past, that in itself is a negative comment on the country's government), but will argue for them when the conspiracy theorists and loons (not mutually exclusive groups) come out to play.

    The biggest mistake people make on here when talking about Turkey is in assuming it is a government similar to ours. It is not, and the rules of politics are very different.

    I'm annoyed that the asshats on here have actually had me defending Erdogan. It's not a position I like to take ...
    Mr JJ you;re taking a friendly wind up the wrong way.

    It's his default setting, when he's finished with you he'll be calling me names because I see things differently.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 37,244
    @Maomentum_: The long road to power is littered with the corpses of the Parliamentary Labour Party.
  • felix said:

    Scott_P said:

    @tnewtondunn: David Cameron wants a Commons vote on Syria air strikes next Wednesday - ministers ringing Labour MPs this weekend; https://t.co/sfhqRRPWHf

    Lol - day before the Oldham by-election.
    The Asian postal vote is sewn up......
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 20,280

    I thought we'd have a little quiz, I'll go first, who said:


    "Control immigration, reducing it to the levels of the 1990s- meaning tens of thousands a year instead of the hundreds of thousands a year under Labour"

    "This our contract with you".

    Same person who is now at highest ever level of net immigration.
    And in his 6th year as PM.......
    Our resident Tory cheerleader Mr TSE is now celebrating the immigration figures as the economy grows. If we doubled the population the economy would grow, I can't think of any possible downside.
    Given your position on the foreign aid budget was shown to be based firmly in 0% knowledge, can we assume your position on immigration is similarly instinctive and clueless?
    Haha! You do love throwing insults around Mr Jessop, I told you repeatedly that I believe we waste too much money overseas, none of your posturing convinced me otherwise.

    And now it appears you're arguing black is white regarding immigration.

    The rule of debate is that he who insults first is lost, you might like to consider that when you continually call people names. I'm very comfortable with my stance on foreign aid and immigration and the impact it has on our economy, nothing you've said on either has made me reconsider.
    The only posturing was from you: you have developed a position on foreign aid that is based on no information. It's just an instinctual "They're getting our money!" argument.

    And I have called you no names above. But on the matter of foreign aid, you are evidently instinctive and clueless. Worse, you show no intention to correct those deficiencies whilst still shouting your position.

    Note there is a difference between saying: "You position on this issue is stupid" and "You are stupid." I have done the former, not the latter.

    As I said the other day, I have no problem with people being against some of, or all of, the foreign aid budget when they've read up on it and considered it. You have not.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 20,280

    Jonathan said:

    The cosmic clusterfuck going on in Labour is definitely obscuring early signs of decay in the Tory party.

    I agree. Jeremy Hunts mismanaging of the NHS is a major turd airborne towards a very big fan.

    You might perhaps be a little too close to this to be an unbiased observer ...
    So you wont be commenting on Turkey ? :-)
    But I'm not close to Turkey. I'm not Turkish, and can't speak or read the language. It's just that when I married a beautiful Turkish lady, I decided to learn about the country by reading and talking to people. When we decided to have a child, I decided to do even more.

    So when people come and speak about the country, I have at least a little amount of knowledge to either agree or disagree. When they speak utter b/s about it, then I've got a lot of information to the contrary.

    I criticise Turkey as much as I feel able (and as I've said in the past, that in itself is a negative comment on the country's government), but will argue for them when the conspiracy theorists and loons (not mutually exclusive groups) come out to play.

    The biggest mistake people make on here when talking about Turkey is in assuming it is a government similar to ours. It is not, and the rules of politics are very different.

    I'm annoyed that the asshats on here have actually had me defending Erdogan. It's not a position I like to take ...
    Mr JJ you;re taking a friendly wind up the wrong way.

    I just felt it was important to state my position, lest people say I'm an Islamist.

    Again. ;)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 20,280

    Jonathan said:

    The cosmic clusterfuck going on in Labour is definitely obscuring early signs of decay in the Tory party.

    I agree. Jeremy Hunts mismanaging of the NHS is a major turd airborne towards a very big fan.

    You might perhaps be a little too close to this to be an unbiased observer ...
    So you wont be commenting on Turkey ? :-)
    But I'm not close to Turkey. I'm not Turkish, and can't speak or read the language. It's just that when I married a beautiful Turkish lady, I decided to learn about the country by reading and talking to people. When we decided to have a child, I decided to do even more.

    So when people come and speak about the country, I have at least a little amount of knowledge to either agree or disagree. When they speak utter b/s about it, then I've got a lot of information to the contrary.

    I criticise Turkey as much as I feel able (and as I've said in the past, that in itself is a negative comment on the country's government), but will argue for them when the conspiracy theorists and loons (not mutually exclusive groups) come out to play.

    The biggest mistake people make on here when talking about Turkey is in assuming it is a government similar to ours. It is not, and the rules of politics are very different.

    I'm annoyed that the asshats on here have actually had me defending Erdogan. It's not a position I like to take ...
    Mr JJ you;re taking a friendly wind up the wrong way.

    It's his default setting, when he's finished with you he'll be calling me names because I see things differently.
    Where have I called you names?
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 4,504
    Mr Mark,

    "Maybe we aren't looking at a five year term?"

    That would explain the Osborne "Mr nice guy" attitude in the Autumn statement. Lose Cameron, Osborne succeeds and fits in an election before Jezza retires to spend more time with his manhole covers.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    I thought we'd have a little quiz, I'll go first, who said:


    "Control immigration, reducing it to the levels of the 1990s- meaning tens of thousands a year instead of the hundreds of thousands a year under Labour"

    "This our contract with you".

    Same person who is now at highest ever level of net immigration.
    And in his 6th year as PM.......
    Our resident Tory cheerleader Mr TSE is now celebrating the immigration figures as the economy grows. If we doubled the population the economy would grow, I can't think of any possible downside.
    Given your position on the foreign aid budget was shown to be based firmly in 0% knowledge, can we assume your position on immigration is similarly instinctive and clueless?
    Haha! You do love throwing insults around Mr Jessop, I told you repeatedly that I believe we waste too much money overseas, none of your posturing convinced me otherwise.

    And now it appears you're arguing black is white regarding immigration.

    The rule of debate is that he who insults first is lost, you might like to consider that when you continually call people names. I'm very comfortable with my stance on foreign aid and immigration and the impact it has on our economy, nothing you've said on either has made me reconsider.
    The only posturing was from you: you have developed a position on foreign aid that is based on no information. It's just an instinctual "They're getting our money!" argument.

    And I have called you no names above. But on the matter of foreign aid, you are evidently instinctive and clueless. Worse, you show no intention to correct those deficiencies whilst still shouting your position.

    Note there is a difference between saying: "You position on this issue is stupid" and "You are stupid." I have done the former, not the latter.

    As I said the other day, I have no problem with people being against some of, or all of, the foreign aid budget when they've read up on it and considered it. You have not.
    My word Mr Jessop you really are a joyful soul, it's Saturday morning and you're already ranting and calling me clueless. I understand the interweb can bring out the worst in people but I'd politely suggest you have a quiet 5 minutes to reflect. I have debated the foreign aid budget in public on several occasions and my position is consistent: we waste money overseas.

    Now you may disagree but my life really is better served than being on the other end of your histrionics.

  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    CD13 said:

    Mr Mark,

    "Maybe we aren't looking at a five year term?"

    That would explain the Osborne "Mr nice guy" attitude in the Autumn statement. Lose Cameron, Osborne succeeds and fits in an election before Jezza retires to spend more time with his manhole covers.

    Maohole covers, no?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 19,035

    Michael Dugher MP tweets: 1,300+ RAF missions in northern Iraq resulted in 330 ISIL killed by UK airstrikes, 0 civilian casualties + ISIL lost 30% of its territory.

    What a lying Tory halfwit
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    felix said:

    Scott_P said:

    @tnewtondunn: David Cameron wants a Commons vote on Syria air strikes next Wednesday - ministers ringing Labour MPs this weekend; https://t.co/sfhqRRPWHf

    Lol - day before the Oldham by-election.
    The Asian postal vote is sewn up......
    I've said from the start that's what will win it for labour, I'm amazed the odds are as close as they are.
  • Mr. Moses, some say Corbyn and McDonnell are showing their lighter side by recording a cover song to promote their politics, whilst also reflecting their position in the PLP. Apparently it's going to be called I Think We're Alone, Mao.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Look at Cameron's demeanor in the photo leading this thread especially his eyes, and you see a very worried man, and probably something darker going on there.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 19,035

    Jonathan said:

    The cosmic clusterfuck going on in Labour is definitely obscuring early signs of decay in the Tory party.

    I agree. Jeremy Hunts mismanaging of the NHS is a major turd airborne towards a very big fan.

    You might perhaps be a little too close to this to be an unbiased observer ...
    So you wont be commenting on Turkey ? :-)
    But I'm not close to Turkey. I'm not Turkish, and can't speak or read the language. It's just that when I married a beautiful Turkish lady, I decided to learn about the country by reading and talking to people. When we decided to have a child, I decided to do even more.

    So when people come and speak about the country, I have at least a little amount of knowledge to either agree or disagree. When they speak utter b/s about it, then I've got a lot of information to the contrary.

    I criticise Turkey as much as I feel able (and as I've said in the past, that in itself is a negative comment on the country's government), but will argue for them when the conspiracy theorists and loons (not mutually exclusive groups) come out to play.

    The biggest mistake people make on here when talking about Turkey is in assuming it is a government similar to ours. It is not, and the rules of politics are very different.

    I'm annoyed that the asshats on here have actually had me defending Erdogan. It's not a position I like to take ...
    You are a blinkered cheerleader for Turkey. Erdogan is a roaster and like other middle east countries we should have nothing to do with them , let them get on with knocking teh crap out of each other. Putin will sort them out in near future in any case.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 19,035

    Jonathan said:

    The cosmic clusterfuck going on in Labour is definitely obscuring early signs of decay in the Tory party.

    I agree. Jeremy Hunts mismanaging of the NHS is a major turd airborne towards a very big fan.

    You might perhaps be a little too close to this to be an unbiased observer ...
    So you wont be commenting on Turkey ? :-)
    But I'm not close to Turkey. I'm not Turkish, and can't speak or read the language. It's just that when I married a beautiful Turkish lady, I decided to learn about the country by reading and talking to people. When we decided to have a child, I decided to do even more.

    So when people come and speak about the country, I have at least a little amount of knowledge to either agree or disagree. When they speak utter b/s about it, then I've got a lot of information to the contrary.

    I criticise Turkey as much as I feel able (and as I've said in the past, that in itself is a negative comment on the country's government), but will argue for them when the conspiracy theorists and loons (not mutually exclusive groups) come out to play.

    The biggest mistake people make on here when talking about Turkey is in assuming it is a government similar to ours. It is not, and the rules of politics are very different.

    I'm annoyed that the asshats on here have actually had me defending Erdogan. It's not a position I like to take ...
    Mr JJ you;re taking a friendly wind up the wrong way.

    Outraged of Tunbridge Wells will be writing to you soon, how dare you.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    Mr. Moses, some say Corbyn and McDonnell are showing their lighter side by recording a cover song to promote their politics, whilst also reflecting their position in the PLP. Apparently it's going to be called I Think We're Alone, Mao.

    Are they singing it on their long march out of power, Morris?
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    malcolmg said:

    Michael Dugher MP tweets: 1,300+ RAF missions in northern Iraq resulted in 330 ISIL killed by UK airstrikes, 0 civilian casualties + ISIL lost 30% of its territory.

    What a lying Tory halfwit
    Fair enough...

    In the interests of balance you do of course have a link to the actual figures one presumes. We can then all see the various alternatives and make our own minds up.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 19,035

    Jonathan said:

    The cosmic clusterfuck going on in Labour is definitely obscuring early signs of decay in the Tory party.

    I agree. Jeremy Hunts mismanaging of the NHS is a major turd airborne towards a very big fan.

    You might perhaps be a little too close to this to be an unbiased observer ...
    So you wont be commenting on Turkey ? :-)
    But I'm not close to Turkey. I'm not Turkish, and can't speak or read the language. It's just that when I married a beautiful Turkish lady, I decided to learn about the country by reading and talking to people. When we decided to have a child, I decided to do even more.

    So when people come and speak about the country, I have at least a little amount of knowledge to either agree or disagree. When they speak utter b/s about it, then I've got a lot of information to the contrary.

    I criticise Turkey as much as I feel able (and as I've said in the past, that in itself is a negative comment on the country's government), but will argue for them when the conspiracy theorists and loons (not mutually exclusive groups) come out to play.

    The biggest mistake people make on here when talking about Turkey is in assuming it is a government similar to ours. It is not, and the rules of politics are very different.

    I'm annoyed that the asshats on here have actually had me defending Erdogan. It's not a position I like to take ...
    Mr JJ you;re taking a friendly wind up the wrong way.

    It's his default setting, when he's finished with you he'll be calling me names because I see things differently.
    Where have I called you names?
    You spent all last weekend berating him
  • malcolmg said:

    Jonathan said:

    The cosmic clusterfuck going on in Labour is definitely obscuring early signs of decay in the Tory party.

    I agree. Jeremy Hunts mismanaging of the NHS is a major turd airborne towards a very big fan.

    You might perhaps be a little too close to this to be an unbiased observer ...
    So you wont be commenting on Turkey ? :-)
    But I'm not close to Turkey. I'm not Turkish, and can't speak or read the language. It's just that when I married a beautiful Turkish lady, I decided to learn about the country by reading and talking to people. When we decided to have a child, I decided to do even more.

    So when people come and speak about the country, I have at least a little amount of knowledge to either agree or disagree. When they speak utter b/s about it, then I've got a lot of information to the contrary.

    I criticise Turkey as much as I feel able (and as I've said in the past, that in itself is a negative comment on the country's government), but will argue for them when the conspiracy theorists and loons (not mutually exclusive groups) come out to play.

    The biggest mistake people make on here when talking about Turkey is in assuming it is a government similar to ours. It is not, and the rules of politics are very different.

    I'm annoyed that the asshats on here have actually had me defending Erdogan. It's not a position I like to take ...
    Mr JJ you;re taking a friendly wind up the wrong way.

    Outraged of Tunbridge Wells will be writing to you soon, how dare you.
    By the same token that you dare comment on a spat between two Englishmen, even though it's none of your business.

    :(

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 20,280
    edited November 2015

    My word Mr Jessop you really are a joyful soul, it's Saturday morning and you're already ranting and calling me clueless. I understand the interweb can bring out the worst in people but I'd politely suggest you have a quiet 5 minutes to reflect. I have debated the foreign aid budget in public on several occasions and my position is consistent: we waste money overseas.

    Now you may disagree but my life really is better served than being on the other end of your histrionics.

    I'm a very joyful soul. I've had a cuddle with my son after feeding him, and not even having to deal with a faintly radioactive nappy has removed the smile off my face (though it might have burnt my nasal passages). Even the prospect of the imminent arrival of my mother-in-law hasn't soured me. (*)

    My point is that you have shown that your position is consistent but not based on information. Given that, it's quite easy for you to be consistent. You have admitted you do not know how foreign aid is spent in outline, yet alone detail, therefore being against it so stridently is a curious position.

    As for money being wasted, I'll turn around the question you asked me the other day: can you name a department where money is not wasted?

    As it is such a good day, perhaps you should try knocking on a few more doors and asking them about foreign aid.

    (*) She is a lovely lady. I think she loves me because I've taken one of her daughters off her hands ... ;)
  • McMao: decision on Syria should be a free vote. It's above party politics, a fact he's just realised:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34950778
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 20,280
    malcolmg said:

    Jonathan said:

    The cosmic clusterfuck going on in Labour is definitely obscuring early signs of decay in the Tory party.

    I agree. Jeremy Hunts mismanaging of the NHS is a major turd airborne towards a very big fan.

    You might perhaps be a little too close to this to be an unbiased observer ...
    So you wont be commenting on Turkey ? :-)
    But I'm not close to Turkey. I'm not Turkish, and can't speak or read the language. It's just that when I married a beautiful Turkish lady, I decided to learn about the country by reading and talking to people. When we decided to have a child, I decided to do even more.

    So when people come and speak about the country, I have at least a little amount of knowledge to either agree or disagree. When they speak utter b/s about it, then I've got a lot of information to the contrary.

    I criticise Turkey as much as I feel able (and as I've said in the past, that in itself is a negative comment on the country's government), but will argue for them when the conspiracy theorists and loons (not mutually exclusive groups) come out to play.

    The biggest mistake people make on here when talking about Turkey is in assuming it is a government similar to ours. It is not, and the rules of politics are very different.

    I'm annoyed that the asshats on here have actually had me defending Erdogan. It's not a position I like to take ...
    Mr JJ you;re taking a friendly wind up the wrong way.

    It's his default setting, when he's finished with you he'll be calling me names because I see things differently.
    Where have I called you names?
    You spent all last weekend berating him
    Linky, please ELIZA. You should have them somewhere in your data store.
  • Michael Dugher MP tweets: 1,300+ RAF missions in northern Iraq resulted in 330 ISIL killed by UK airstrikes, 0 civilian casualties + ISIL lost 30% of its territory.

    Is a 1 in 3 kill rate good or bad? More importantly, are the proposed Syrian raids in addition to or instead of the Iraqi strikes? If instead, then what is the great point of principle on either side?
  • FluffyThoughtsFluffyThoughts Posts: 2,420
    edited November 2015

    Cutting Short money to opposition parties seems to have gone largely unremarked, though Richard Nabavi flagged it up shortly after Osborne sat down.

    All things considered: I think this is the 'unknown unknown' in the "Autumn Statement":

    Pensions; ISAs; and Annuities

    Tax-free cash may not survive FY2018.
  • Mr. L, depends whether 'missions' include recon, refuelling etc.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865

    Mr. Moses, some say Corbyn and McDonnell are showing their lighter side by recording a cover song to promote their politics, whilst also reflecting their position in the PLP. Apparently it's going to be called I Think We're Alone, Mao.

    Ha! Indeedy.

    I shall therefore quote from that Monty Pythons Election Night special and the never give up song at the end.....

    "Climb every Maotain , ford every stream"
    :lol:
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 37,244

    McMao: decision on Syria should be a free vote. It's above party politics, a fact he's just realised:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34950778

    It can't be a free vote.

    Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition, the Government in waiting, doesn't have a view on whether we should go to war?
  • [OT] re Black Friday sales. Has anyone told the disappointed high street shops that it is a day off in America but not here?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 19,035
    Moses_ said:

    malcolmg said:

    Michael Dugher MP tweets: 1,300+ RAF missions in northern Iraq resulted in 330 ISIL killed by UK airstrikes, 0 civilian casualties + ISIL lost 30% of its territory.

    What a lying Tory halfwit
    Fair enough...

    In the interests of balance you do of course have a link to the actual figures one presumes. We can then all see the various alternatives and make our own minds up.
    LOL, You think they publish figures here of who they kill or that the bodies have tags on them as to which bomb killed them. We killed hundreds of thousands previously so nothing to feel good about. Tory warmongers glorying in how many people they havw bombed and killed is odious however you look at it, especially a cowardly one commenting from his armchair seeking reflected glory as if he had done something good and principled. His boast about them losing 30% of their territory is down to the local fighters on the ground , who are paying with their lives , they are not sitting drinking subsidised champagne and boasting of their prowess from a club chair in Westminster. Vomit inducing.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    Michael Dugher MP tweets: 1,300+ RAF missions in northern Iraq resulted in 330 ISIL killed by UK airstrikes, 0 civilian casualties + ISIL lost 30% of its territory.

    Is a 1 in 3 kill rate good or bad? More importantly, are the proposed Syrian raids in addition to or instead of the Iraqi strikes? If instead, then what is the great point of principle on either side?
    It's a very poor kill rate and if we knew the tonnage of bombs dropped the rate will prove to be even poorer. As to no civilian casualties, what did they do, drop an officer in to count them?
  • Mr. P, whilst I do think having the Commons vote is daft, I bet Cameron can't quite believe just what Labour is doing to itself.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 19,035

    malcolmg said:

    Jonathan said:

    The cosmic clusterfuck going on in Labour is definitely obscuring early signs of decay in the Tory party.

    I agree. Jeremy Hunts mismanaging of the NHS is a major turd airborne towards a very big fan.

    You might perhaps be a little too close to this to be an unbiased observer ...
    So you wont be commenting on Turkey ? :-)
    But I'm not close to Turkey. I'm not Turkish, and can't speak or read the language. It's just that when I married a beautiful Turkish lady, I decided to learn about the country by reading and talking to people. When we decided to have a child, I decided to do even more.

    So when people come and speak about the country, I have at least a little amount of knowledge to either agree or disagree. When they speak utter b/s about it, then I've got a lot of information to the contrary.

    I criticise Turkey as much as I feel able (and as I've said in the past, that in itself is a negative comment on the country's government), but will argue for them when the conspiracy theorists and loons (not mutually exclusive groups) come out to play.

    The biggest mistake people make on here when talking about Turkey is in assuming it is a government similar to ours. It is not, and the rules of politics are very different.

    I'm annoyed that the asshats on here have actually had me defending Erdogan. It's not a position I like to take ...
    Mr JJ you;re taking a friendly wind up the wrong way.

    Outraged of Tunbridge Wells will be writing to you soon, how dare you.
    By the same token that you dare comment on a spat between two Englishmen, even though it's none of your business.

    :(

    One sided spat , by the man who could start a fight in an empty house whilst praising Turkey.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 19,035

    My word Mr Jessop you really are a joyful soul, it's Saturday morning and you're already ranting and calling me clueless. I understand the interweb can bring out the worst in people but I'd politely suggest you have a quiet 5 minutes to reflect. I have debated the foreign aid budget in public on several occasions and my position is consistent: we waste money overseas.

    Now you may disagree but my life really is better served than being on the other end of your histrionics.

    I'm a very joyful soul. I've had a cuddle with my son after feeding him, and not even having to deal with a faintly radioactive nappy has removed the smile off my face (though it might have burnt my nasal passages). Even the prospect of the imminent arrival of my mother-in-law hasn't soured me. (*)

    My point is that you have shown that your position is consistent but not based on information. Given that, it's quite easy for you to be consistent. You have admitted you do not know how foreign aid is spent in outline, yet alone detail, therefore being against it so stridently is a curious position.

    As for money being wasted, I'll turn around the question you asked me the other day: can you name a department where money is not wasted?

    As it is such a good day, perhaps you should try knocking on a few more doors and asking them about foreign aid.

    (*) She is a lovely lady. I think she loves me because I've taken one of her daughters off her hands ... ;)
    When do the violins start
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    malcolmg said:

    Moses_ said:

    malcolmg said:

    Michael Dugher MP tweets: 1,300+ RAF missions in northern Iraq resulted in 330 ISIL killed by UK airstrikes, 0 civilian casualties + ISIL lost 30% of its territory.

    What a lying Tory halfwit
    Fair enough...

    In the interests of balance you do of course have a link to the actual figures one presumes. We can then all see the various alternatives and make our own minds up.
    LOL, You think they publish figures here of who they kill or that the bodies have tags on them as to which bomb killed them. We killed hundreds of thousands previously so nothing to feel good about. Tory warmongers glorying in how many people they havw bombed and killed is odious however you look at it, especially a cowardly one commenting from his armchair seeking reflected glory as if he had done something good and principled. His boast about them losing 30% of their territory is down to the local fighters on the ground , who are paying with their lives , they are not sitting drinking subsidised champagne and boasting of their prowess from a club chair in Westminster. Vomit inducing.
    So that's a no then. ........ m'kay.
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