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  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    edited January 2016
    kle4 said:

    If you listen carefully, you can just hear the sound of John Bickley researching Rochdale sports teams, and looking up the names of Council estates he grew up on.

    htps://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/683401661809881088

    Brilliant. I hope there's an election leaflet out there somewhere which has quotes like 'I have always fought hard for [insert name of community], and achieved success with [insert local party success here]' on it - across all our parties, someone must have slipped up like that at some point.
    The chairman of UKIP, John Whittaker, is meant to have contested eight constituencies at the 2005 general election. Rochdale was one of them. Would be amusing if he had used a default election leaflet with just the name of the constituency changed on each of them.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    kle4 said:

    Wanderer said:

    Trying to find a tasteful way to express my excitement at the prospect of a Rochdale by-election. Posting "fuck yeah!" under the Mail's front page doesn't seem to be it.

    I see Danscuk is already down as an Independent on the wiki page of the constituency.

    As for tempering excitement - Lab majority 12000+.
    Yes, but if the by-election occurs in these circumstances it will be in play (imo).
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969
    edited January 2016
    Karen Danczuk is on Simon's side, judging by her twitter feed

    @KarenDanczuk: So the innocent 17 year old turns out to be a professional dominatrix!!! Interesting developments. KD
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,279
    If Dancuzk became an Independent, then resigned, who would move the writ for a by-election?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PickardJE: Farage fears he was victim of assassination attempt after his car was sabotaged causing a terrifying motorway crash. https://t.co/LPe97RDtAP
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921
    dr_spyn said:

    If Dancuzk became an Independent, then resigned, who would move the writ for a by-election?

    Anyone (in the Commons) can move the writ.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Wanderer said:

    kle4 said:

    Wanderer said:

    Trying to find a tasteful way to express my excitement at the prospect of a Rochdale by-election. Posting "fuck yeah!" under the Mail's front page doesn't seem to be it.

    I see Danscuk is already down as an Independent on the wiki page of the constituency.

    As for tempering excitement - Lab majority 12000+.
    Yes, but if the by-election occurs in these circumstances it will be in play (imo).
    I'm not falling for that hope again (an exciting by-election, not Labour losing the seat - I don't care if they hold it or lose it, should the situation arise) - the party brand is still strong, any moderates are either not put off enough by Corbyn to vote against the party at this stage (or are outnumbered by enthusiastic Corbyn supporters turning up even if they stay home), and so the torrid nature of any by-election being called will be overcome, particularly if they pick a sensible candidate.
  • Scott_P said:

    @PickardJE: Farage fears he was victim of assassination attempt after his car was sabotaged causing a terrifying motorway crash. https://t.co/LPe97RDtAP

    Blimey.
  • Karen Danczuk is on Simon's side, judging by her twitter feed

    @KarenDanczuk: So the innocent 17 year old turns out to be a professional dominatrix!!! Interesting developments. KD

    Imagine if he had given her a ................job...
  • Scott_P said:

    @PickardJE: Farage fears he was victim of assassination attempt after his car was sabotaged causing a terrifying motorway crash. https://t.co/LPe97RDtAP

    F##king Hell.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    kle4 said:

    Wanderer said:

    kle4 said:

    Wanderer said:

    Trying to find a tasteful way to express my excitement at the prospect of a Rochdale by-election. Posting "fuck yeah!" under the Mail's front page doesn't seem to be it.

    I see Danscuk is already down as an Independent on the wiki page of the constituency.

    As for tempering excitement - Lab majority 12000+.
    Yes, but if the by-election occurs in these circumstances it will be in play (imo).
    I'm not falling for that hope again (an exciting by-election, not Labour losing the seat - I don't care if they hold it or lose it, should the situation arise) - the party brand is still strong, any moderates are either not put off enough by Corbyn to vote against the party at this stage (or are outnumbered by enthusiastic Corbyn supporters turning up even if they stay home), and so the torrid nature of any by-election being called will be overcome, particularly if they pick a sensible candidate.
    Strong LD vote until recently, UKIP in second. Both would throw the proverbial at it.

    I need to sit down.
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    Scott_P said:

    @PickardJE: Farage fears he was victim of assassination attempt after his car was sabotaged causing a terrifying motorway crash. https://t.co/LPe97RDtAP

    Interestingly he was travelling back from Brussels when it happened.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Scott_P said:

    @PickardJE: Farage fears he was victim of assassination attempt after his car was sabotaged causing a terrifying motorway crash. https://t.co/LPe97RDtAP

    cui bono?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,523

    Scott_P said:

    @PickardJE: Farage fears he was victim of assassination attempt after his car was sabotaged causing a terrifying motorway crash. https://t.co/LPe97RDtAP

    Blimey.
    Indeed.Glad he's okay.

    When was the last assassination attempt of a UK politician? Stephen Timms?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Well, mexican gunmen are nothing if not efficient.

    A newly-elected Mexican mayor has been shot dead on her second day in office...The left-of-centre former federal congresswoman, who was in her early 30s, had promised to try to clean up Temixco, an industrial city where problems associated with drugs and organised crime are rife.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-35216189
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    Scott_P said:

    @PickardJE: Farage fears he was victim of assassination attempt after his car was sabotaged causing a terrifying motorway crash. https://t.co/LPe97RDtAP

    Blimey.
    Reading the article, every other line explains how many enemies he has in, and how disliked he is by....UKIP!
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    Hmm, I wonder how this will play out.

    https://twitter.com/KarenDanczuk/status/683343550805880832
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921
    Emily Thornberry?!? Really!!!

    Oh this is surely to good to be true!

    Has she got used to the flag of St George yet?
  • MP_SE said:
    Remember the UKIP Bird story....
  • @ShippersUnbound: Half the cabinet thinks Cameron will have to resign if he loses the EU referendum. See Sunday Times
  • Mortimer said:

    Emily Thornberry?!? Really!!!

    Oh this is surely to good to be true!

    Has she got used to the flag of St George yet?

    Won't be long before she makes another stupid comment.
  • MP_SE said:
    Interesting that even though she has separated from him she is still defending him. Seems like the first wife has seen an opportunity to make a lot of money and has grabbed it with both hands.
  • MP_SE said:
    Interesting that even though she has separated from him she is still defending him. Seems like the first wife has seen an opportunity to make a lot of money and has grabbed it with both hands.
    Plus hell hath and all that jazz
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642

    MP_SE said:
    Remember the UKIP Bird story....
    Sometimes I think it is best to allow a month to pass before passing comment.

    I felt quite sorry for Roger Bird in the end. By the time the truth emerged, the damage had been done.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921

    Mortimer said:

    Emily Thornberry?!? Really!!!

    Oh this is surely to good to be true!

    Has she got used to the flag of St George yet?

    Won't be long before she makes another stupid comment.
    I truly hope it is a tweet of a flag of a foreign country. That would be just brilliant.
  • Scott_P said:

    @PickardJE: Farage fears he was victim of assassination attempt after his car was sabotaged causing a terrifying motorway crash. https://t.co/LPe97RDtAP

    F##king Hell.
    When I saw the headline my first thought, perhaps unkindly was 'yeah yeah yet another wild claim'. But reading the article it seems the French police are quite serious about this being sabotage. Not nice at all and certainly of great concern.
  • MP_SE said:

    kle4 said:

    If you listen carefully, you can just hear the sound of John Bickley researching Rochdale sports teams, and looking up the names of Council estates he grew up on.

    htps://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/683401661809881088

    Brilliant. I hope there's an election leaflet out there somewhere which has quotes like 'I have always fought hard for [insert name of community], and achieved success with [insert local party success here]' on it - across all our parties, someone must have slipped up like that at some point.
    The chairman of UKIP, John Whittaker, is meant to have contested eight constituencies at the 2005 general election. Rochdale was one of them. Would be amusing if he had used a default election leaflet with just the name of the constituency changed on each of them.
    Is that not illegal?
  • Promotion based on ability and performance....
  • Full disclosure about Emily Thornberry, I once met Lady Nugee (that's her posh name) and she's an intelligent, perceptive Lady.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited January 2016

    Full disclosure about Emily Thornberry, I once met Lady Nugee (that's her posh name) and she's an intelligent, perceptive Lady.

    She does a fantastic job of pretending the opposite.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969
    edited January 2016

    MP_SE said:

    kle4 said:

    If you listen carefully, you can just hear the sound of John Bickley researching Rochdale sports teams, and looking up the names of Council estates he grew up on.

    htps://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/683401661809881088

    Brilliant. I hope there's an election leaflet out there somewhere which has quotes like 'I have always fought hard for [insert name of community], and achieved success with [insert local party success here]' on it - across all our parties, someone must have slipped up like that at some point.
    The chairman of UKIP, John Whittaker, is meant to have contested eight constituencies at the 2005 general election. Rochdale was one of them. Would be amusing if he had used a default election leaflet with just the name of the constituency changed on each of them.
    Is that not illegal?
    No, you can stand in as many seats as you wish, but you can be MP for only one seat. So had he won all 10, he would choose which seat he would represent, and there'd be by elections in the other 9
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Thornberry made a stupid comment (more her follow up to the furore than the initial comment, to be honest), which Ed M overreacted to, but given the nature of the 'offense', I feel like she has enough substance to overcome it. Probably. Possibly.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,846
    edited January 2016

    MP_SE said:

    kle4 said:

    If you listen carefully, you can just hear the sound of John Bickley researching Rochdale sports teams, and looking up the names of Council estates he grew up on.

    htps://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/683401661809881088

    Brilliant. I hope there's an election leaflet out there somewhere which has quotes like 'I have always fought hard for [insert name of community], and achieved success with [insert local party success here]' on it - across all our parties, someone must have slipped up like that at some point.
    The chairman of UKIP, John Whittaker, is meant to have contested eight constituencies at the 2005 general election. Rochdale was one of them. Would be amusing if he had used a default election leaflet with just the name of the constituency changed on each of them.
    Is that not illegal?
    No, you can stand in as many seats as you wish, but you can be MP for only one seat. So had he won all 10, he would choose which seat he would represent, and there'd be by elections in the other 9
    Maybe I should have said 'That should be illegal'. It kind of brings the whole system into disrepute.
  • kle4 said:

    Thornberry made a stupid comment (more her follow up to the furore than the initial comment, to be honest), which Ed M overreacted to, but given the nature of the 'offense', I feel like she has enough substance to overcome it. Probably. Possibly.

    Have you seen her do the "spin" job to the news channels. She is shocking.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,961
    Absolutely knocked out by Black Mass. Depp (Leading) and Cumberbatch (Supporting) certainly deserve nominations. A bold claim, but it deserves to be talked of in the company of The Godfather and Goodfellas. It really is that good.
  • Absolutely knocked out by Black Mass. Depp (Leading) and Cumberbatch (Supporting) certainly deserve nominations. A bold claim, but it deserves to be talked of in the company of The Godfather and Goodfellas. It really is that good.

    I really enjoyed it.
  • MP_SE said:

    kle4 said:

    If you listen carefully, you can just hear the sound of John Bickley researching Rochdale sports teams, and looking up the names of Council estates he grew up on.

    htps://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/683401661809881088

    Brilliant. I hope there's an election leaflet out there somewhere which has quotes like 'I have always fought hard for [insert name of community], and achieved success with [insert local party success here]' on it - across all our parties, someone must have slipped up like that at some point.
    The chairman of UKIP, John Whittaker, is meant to have contested eight constituencies at the 2005 general election. Rochdale was one of them. Would be amusing if he had used a default election leaflet with just the name of the constituency changed on each of them.
    Is that not illegal?
    No, you can stand in as many seats as you wish, but you can be MP for only one seat. So had he won all 10, he would choose which seat he would represent, and there'd be by elections in the other 9
    Maybe I should have said 'That should be illegal'. It kind of brings the whole system into disrepute.
    I agree.
  • kle4 said:

    Thornberry made a stupid comment (more her follow up to the furore than the initial comment, to be honest), which Ed M overreacted to, but given the nature of the 'offense', I feel like she has enough substance to overcome it. Probably. Possibly.

    Its not the fact she made a stupid comment per se. It is the fact that she made the comment about something that can be directly used against her if she is in the position of Shadow FS.

    You can imagine her opponents asking about how we can consider having a FS who hates the flag of England. I know that is not exactly what she said but that is exactly how it will be portrayed.
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    edited January 2016
    .
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Although I'm not convinced of Emily Thornberry's political abilities, she does have a rather pleasingly soothing voice.

    (random tangent)
  • The article's claim can only be made because all leadership elections held until 1983 were PLP only.

    The only election where the Membership has disagreed with the PLP is the most recent.


    Interestingly both the membership and the PLP would have elected David Miliband over his brother.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited January 2016
    My years of abuse from sex text MP: Disgraced Danczuk 'bullied ex-wife into having sex and ordered cannabis joints rolled every night'

    Simon Danczuk's first wife has branded the Labour MP a 'sexual predator'

    She claims he drove her into therapy with drug and alcohol-fuelled bullying

    Sonia Rossington, 39, said she wasn't surprised by his lurid texts to girl, 17

    Ex-wife said he pestered her for sex and kept suggesting sado-masochism

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3382293/My-years-abuse-sex-text-MP-Disgraced-Danczuk-bullied-ex-wife-having-sex-ordered-cannabis-joints-rolled-night.html
  • Full disclosure about Emily Thornberry, I once met Lady Nugee (that's her posh name) and she's an intelligent, perceptive Lady.

    She does a fantastic job of pretending the opposite.
    I admit she's not the most articulate person in the world, which is slightly alarming considering she's a Barrister.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited January 2016

    My years of abuse from sex text MP: Disgraced Danczuk 'bullied ex-wife into having sex and ordered cannabis joints rolled every night'

    Simon Danczuk's first wife has branded the Labour MP a 'sexual predator'

    She claims he drove her into therapy with drug and alcohol-fuelled bullying

    Sonia Rossington, 39, said she wasn't surprised by his lurid texts to girl, 17

    Ex-wife said he pestered her for sex and kept suggesting sado-masochism

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3382293/My-years-abuse-sex-text-MP-Disgraced-Danczuk-bullied-ex-wife-having-sex-ordered-cannabis-joints-rolled-night.html

    Much as Danczuk is a prat, him asking his wife for sex and attempting to get her into S&M (which, as far as I can tell from the article, she always refused) does not seem to constitute "abuse" to me.
  • Just awaiting the flood of posts, from the usual suspects, decrying the mail as a right wing rag that should be ignored.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    viewcode said:

    ...There is a yearning for a counter-narative, a coherent critique of all of the problems of the shallow materialist consumerism of liberal capitalism. Ours is a society that has sold our birthright of enlightenment values very cheaply.

    I like shallow materialist consumerism. You get iPads for Christmas.

    Shallow materialism is undoubtably popular, but we cannot live on bread alone.

    There is a tendency in Islamism to find a set of counter values opposite to mercenary capitalism

    Yes. Burning gays to death. Remind me again what's wrong with capitalism?

    So why is Islamism so popular with disaffected youth? The two convicted this week were not devout pious Muslims. There is a craving out there for the Ummah. The universal brotherhood, the support of fellow believers, the desire to serve. There is a desire for something to believe in that is intrinsic to the human condition, and Islamism allows that off the shelf. Of course Islamism is offensive and barbaric, and I have condemned it many times here, but we do need to understand its appeal if we are to defeat it.

    For at least a decade before the collapse of the Soviet Union its rotten state was clear. There is a tendency in Islamism to find a set of counter values opposite to mercenary capitalism, and much the same with environmentalism and greenism.

    So, Labour now falls into the same set as Islamism, environmentalism and greenism?
    Labour shares the same desire for an alternative world. All 3 philosphies share an enemy, just as the British Empire, USA and Soviet Union in WW2. It does not mean that they are the same thing. Some on the Left make the same mistake as yourself though, hence some on the Left like Corbyn expressing support for "friends" like Hamas.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625

    viewcode said:

    ...There is a yearning for a counter-narative, a coherent critique of all of the problems of the shallow materialist consumerism of liberal capitalism. Ours is a society that has sold our birthright of enlightenment values very cheaply.

    I like shallow materialist consumerism. You get iPads for Christmas.

    Shallow materialism is undoubtably popular, but we cannot live on bread alone.

    There is a tendency in Islamism to find a set of counter values opposite to mercenary capitalism

    Yes. Burning gays to death. Remind me again what's wrong with capitalism?

    So why is Islamism so popular with disaffected youth? The two convicted this week were not devout pious Muslims. There is a craving out there for the Ummah. The universal brotherhood, the support of fellow believers, the desire to serve. There is a desire for something to believe in that is intrinsic to the human condition, and Islamism allows that off the shelf. Of course Islamism is offensive and barbaric, and I have condemned it many times here, but we do need to understand its appeal if we are to defeat it.

    For at least a decade before the collapse of the Soviet Union its rotten state was clear. There is a tendency in Islamism to find a set of counter values opposite to mercenary capitalism, and much the same with environmentalism and greenism.

    So, Labour now falls into the same set as Islamism, environmentalism and greenism?
    Labour shares the same desire for an alternative world. All 3 philosphies share an enemy, just as the British Empire, USA and Soviet Union in WW2. It does not mean that they are the same thing. Some on the Left make the same mistake as yourself though, hence some on the Left like Corbyn expressing support for "friends" like Hamas.
    So it goes - just like the those who spied for Stalin wanting a more "spiritual world"....
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,047

    Scott_P said:

    @PickardJE: Farage fears he was victim of assassination attempt after his car was sabotaged causing a terrifying motorway crash. https://t.co/LPe97RDtAP

    F##king Hell.
    When I saw the headline my first thought, perhaps unkindly was 'yeah yeah yet another wild claim'. But reading the article it seems the French police are quite serious about this being sabotage. Not nice at all and certainly of great concern.
    Doesn't surprise me one bit. Thankfully he seems to have 9 lives.

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    viewcode said:

    ...There is a yearning for a counter-narative, a coherent critique of all of the problems of the shallow materialist consumerism of liberal capitalism. Ours is a society that has sold our birthright of enlightenment values very cheaply.

    I like shallow materialist consumerism. You get iPads for Christmas.

    Shallow materialism is undoubtably popular, but we cannot live on bread alone.

    There is a tendency in Islamism to find a set of counter values opposite to mercenary capitalism

    Yes. Burning gays to death. Remind me again what's wrong with capitalism?

    So why is Islamism so popular with disaffected youth? The two convicted this week were not devout pious Muslims. There is a craving out there for the Ummah. The universal brotherhood, the support of fellow believers, the desire to serve. There is a desire for something to believe in that is intrinsic to the human condition, and Islamism allows that off the shelf. Of course Islamism is offensive and barbaric, and I have condemned it many times here, but we do need to understand its appeal if we are to defeat it.

    For at least a decade before the collapse of the Soviet Union its rotten state was clear. There is a tendency in Islamism to find a set of counter values opposite to mercenary capitalism, and much the same with environmentalism and greenism.

    So, Labour now falls into the same set as Islamism, environmentalism and greenism?
    Labour shares the same desire for an alternative world. All 3 philosphies share an enemy, just as the British Empire, USA and Soviet Union in WW2. It does not mean that they are the same thing. Some on the Left make the same mistake as yourself though, hence some on the Left like Corbyn expressing support for "friends" like Hamas.
    So it goes - just like the those who spied for Stalin wanting a more "spiritual world"....
    Thats right. Kim Philby genuinely believed he was working for a better world.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,774
    Danny565 said:

    My years of abuse from sex text MP: Disgraced Danczuk 'bullied ex-wife into having sex and ordered cannabis joints rolled every night'

    Simon Danczuk's first wife has branded the Labour MP a 'sexual predator'

    She claims he drove her into therapy with drug and alcohol-fuelled bullying

    Sonia Rossington, 39, said she wasn't surprised by his lurid texts to girl, 17

    Ex-wife said he pestered her for sex and kept suggesting sado-masochism

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3382293/My-years-abuse-sex-text-MP-Disgraced-Danczuk-bullied-ex-wife-having-sex-ordered-cannabis-joints-rolled-night.html

    Much as Danczuk is a prat, him asking his wife for sex and attempting to get her into S&M (which, as far as I can tell from the article, she always refused) does not seem to constitute "abuse" to me.
    He's gone up in my estimation
  • Nick Cohen nailed it just before Christmas: many Corbyn supporters have no need of a Labour government and actually do very well out of Tory governments. That's why a Labour party that might win power is of no interest to them:

    http://nickcohen.net/2015/12/19/74778/#more-74778

    It's handy that political purity comes cost-free for so many. And it explains a lot.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited January 2016
    O/T:

    It's nice to have a 100% betting record for 2016 so far. I put £5 on Man City when they were 1-0 down against Watford. They won 2-1.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    viewcode said:

    ...There is a yearning for a counter-narative, a coherent critique of all of the problems of the shallow materialist consumerism of liberal capitalism. Ours is a society that has sold our birthright of enlightenment values very cheaply.

    I like shallow materialist consumerism. You get iPads for Christmas.

    Shallow materialism is undoubtably popular, but we cannot live on bread alone.

    There is a tendency in Islamism to find a set of counter values opposite to mercenary capitalism

    Yes. Burning gays to death. Remind me again what's wrong with capitalism?

    So why is Islamism so popular with disaffected youth? The two convicted this week were not devout pious Muslims. There is a craving out there for the Ummah. The universal brotherhood, the support of fellow believers, the desire to serve. There is a desire for something to believe in that is intrinsic to the human condition, and Islamism allows that off the shelf. Of course Islamism is offensive and barbaric, and I have condemned it many times here, but we do need to understand its appeal if we are to defeat it.

    For at least a decade before the collapse of the Soviet Union its rotten state was clear. There is a tendency in Islamism to find a set of counter values opposite to mercenary capitalism, and much the same with environmentalism and greenism.

    So, Labour now falls into the same set as Islamism, environmentalism and greenism?
    Labour shares the same desire for an alternative world. All 3 philosphies share an enemy, just as the British Empire, USA and Soviet Union in WW2. It does not mean that they are the same thing. Some on the Left make the same mistake as yourself though, hence some on the Left like Corbyn expressing support for "friends" like Hamas.
    So it goes - just like the those who spied for Stalin wanting a more "spiritual world"....
    Thats right. Kim Philby genuinely believed he was working for a better world.

    So did T E Lawrence. He found out his mistake at the Paris peace conference.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    viewcode said:

    ...There is a yearning for a counter-narative, a coherent critique of all of the problems of the shallow materialist consumerism of liberal capitalism. Ours is a society that has sold our birthright of enlightenment values very cheaply.

    I like shallow materialist consumerism. You get iPads for Christmas.

    Shallow materialism is undoubtably popular, but we cannot live on bread alone.

    There is a tendency in Islamism to find a set of counter values opposite to mercenary capitalism

    Yes. Burning gays to death. Remind me again what's wrong with capitalism?

    So why is Islamism so popular with disaffected youth? The two convicted this week were not devout pious Muslims. There is a craving out there for the Ummah. The universal brotherhood, the support of fellow believers, the desire to serve. There is a desire for something to believe in that is intrinsic to the human condition, and Islamism allows that off the shelf. Of course Islamism is offensive and barbaric, and I have condemned it many times here, but we do need to understand its appeal if we are to defeat it.

    For at least a decade before the collapse of the Soviet Union its rotten state was clear. There is a tendency in Islamism to find a set of counter values opposite to mercenary capitalism, and much the same with environmentalism and greenism.

    So, Labour now falls into the same set as Islamism, environmentalism and greenism?
    Labour shares the same desire for an alternative world. All 3 philosphies share an enemy, just as the British Empire, USA and Soviet Union in WW2. It does not mean that they are the same thing. Some on the Left make the same mistake as yourself though, hence some on the Left like Corbyn expressing support for "friends" like Hamas.
    So it goes - just like the those who spied for Stalin wanting a more "spiritual world"....
    Thats right. Kim Philby genuinely believed he was working for a better world.

    How do you know that?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625

    viewcode said:

    ...There is a yearning for a counter-narative, a coherent critique of all of the problems of the shallow materialist consumerism of liberal capitalism. Ours is a society that has sold our birthright of enlightenment values very cheaply.

    I like shallow materialist consumerism. You get iPads for Christmas.

    Shallow materialism is undoubtably popular, but we cannot live on bread alone.

    There is a tendency in Islamism to find a set of counter values opposite to mercenary capitalism

    Yes. Burning gays to death. Remind me again what's wrong with capitalism?

    So why is Islamism so popular with disaffected youth? The two convicted this week were not devout pious Muslims. There is a craving out there for the Ummah. The universal brotherhood, the support of fellow believers, the desire to serve. There is a desire for something to believe in that is intrinsic to the human condition, and Islamism allows that off the shelf. Of course Islamism is offensive and barbaric, and I have condemned it many times here, but we do need to understand its appeal if we are to defeat it.

    For at least a decade before the collapse of the Soviet Union its rotten state was clear. There is a tendency in Islamism to find a set of counter values opposite to mercenary capitalism, and much the same with environmentalism and greenism.

    So, Labour now falls into the same set as Islamism, environmentalism and greenism?
    Labour shares the same desire for an alternative world. All 3 philosphies share an enemy, just as the British Empire, USA and Soviet Union in WW2. It does not mean that they are the same thing. Some on the Left make the same mistake as yourself though, hence some on the Left like Corbyn expressing support for "friends" like Hamas.
    So it goes - just like the those who spied for Stalin wanting a more "spiritual world"....
    Thats right. Kim Philby genuinely believed he was working for a better world.

    My family had many killed by the Nazis and many killed by the Communists. It is why I like social democratic mixed market capitalistic societies - my family gets to live. But then again, we are a picky lot

    "Sure as I know anything, I know this - they will try again. Maybe on another world, maybe on this very ground swept clean. A year from now, ten? They'll swing back to the belief that they can make people... better. And I do not hold to that.... I aim to misbehave."
  • viewcode said:

    ...There is a yearning for a counter-narative, a coherent critique of all of the problems of the shallow materialist consumerism of liberal capitalism. Ours is a society that has sold our birthright of enlightenment values very cheaply.

    I like shallow materialist consumerism. You get iPads for Christmas.

    Shallow materialism is undoubtably popular, but we cannot live on bread alone.

    There is a tendency in Islamism to find a set of counter values opposite to mercenary capitalism

    Yes. Burning gays to death. Remind me again what's wrong with capitalism?

    So why is Islamism so popular with disaffected youth? The two convicted this week were not devout pious Muslims. There is a craving out there for the Ummah. The universal brotherhood, the support of fellow believers, the desire to serve. There is a desire for something to believe in that is intrinsic to the human condition, and Islamism allows that off the shelf. Of course Islamism is offensive and barbaric, and I have condemned it many times here, but we do need to understand its appeal if we are to defeat it.

    For at least a decade before the collapse of the Soviet Union its rotten state was clear. There is a tendency in Islamism to find a set of counter values opposite to mercenary capitalism, and much the same with environmentalism and greenism.

    So, Labour now falls into the same set as Islamism, environmentalism and greenism?
    Labour shares the same desire for an alternative world. All 3 philosphies share an enemy, just as the British Empire, USA and Soviet Union in WW2. It does not mean that they are the same thing. Some on the Left make the same mistake as yourself though, hence some on the Left like Corbyn expressing support for "friends" like Hamas.
    So it goes - just like the those who spied for Stalin wanting a more "spiritual world"....
    Thats right. Kim Philby genuinely believed he was working for a better world.

    How do you know that?
    It was in his autobiography
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,774
    Liam Fox is an idiot. I would hope David Cameron could find a more competent sceptic.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    I like the idea of Eurosceptic big breasts.

    Then I re-read it. :(
  • rcs1000 said:

    Liam Fox is an idiot. I would hope David Cameron could find a more competent sceptic.
    Indeed. Liam phooking Fox.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    Tim_B said:

    I like the idea of Eurosceptic big breasts.

    Then I re-read it. :(
    You're saying they are great tits?
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 5,997
    rcs1000 said:

    Danny565 said:

    My years of abuse from sex text MP: Disgraced Danczuk 'bullied ex-wife into having sex and ordered cannabis joints rolled every night'

    Simon Danczuk's first wife has branded the Labour MP a 'sexual predator'

    She claims he drove her into therapy with drug and alcohol-fuelled bullying

    Sonia Rossington, 39, said she wasn't surprised by his lurid texts to girl, 17

    Ex-wife said he pestered her for sex and kept suggesting sado-masochism

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3382293/My-years-abuse-sex-text-MP-Disgraced-Danczuk-bullied-ex-wife-having-sex-ordered-cannabis-joints-rolled-night.html

    Much as Danczuk is a prat, him asking his wife for sex and attempting to get her into S&M (which, as far as I can tell from the article, she always refused) does not seem to constitute "abuse" to me.
    He's gone up in my estimation
    The texts look fairly consensual and unremarkable to me.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    viewcode said:

    ...There is a yearning for a counter-narative, a coherent critique of all of the problems of the shallow materialist consumerism of liberal capitalism. Ours is a society that has sold our birthright of enlightenment values very cheaply.

    I like shallow materialist consumerism. You get iPads for Christmas.

    Shallow materialism is undoubtably popular, but we cannot live on bread alone.

    There is a tendency in Islamism to find a set of counter values opposite to mercenary capitalism

    Yes. Burning gays to death. Remind me again what's wrong with capitalism?

    So why is Islamism so popular with disaffected youth? The two convicted this week were not devout pious Muslims. There is a craving out there for the Ummah. The universal brotherhood, the support of fellow believers, the desire to serve. There is a desire for something to believe in that is intrinsic to the human condition, and Islamism allows that off the shelf. Of course Islamism is offensive and barbaric, and I have condemned it many times here, but we do need to understand its appeal if we are to defeat it.

    For at least a decade before the collapse of the Soviet Union its rotten state was clear. There is a tendency in Islamism to find a set of counter values opposite to mercenary capitalism, and much the same with environmentalism and greenism.

    So, Labour now falls into the same set as Islamism, environmentalism and greenism?
    Labour shares the same desire for an alternative world. All 3 philosphies share an enemy, just as the British Empire, USA and Soviet Union in WW2. It does not mean that they are the same thing. Some on the Left make the same mistake as yourself though, hence some on the Left like Corbyn expressing support for "friends" like Hamas.
    So it goes - just like the those who spied for Stalin wanting a more "spiritual world"....
    Thats right. Kim Philby genuinely believed he was working for a better world.

    How do you know that?
    It was in his autobiography
    Is that all? The man was not only liar but he lived and breathed lying, he was prepared and did betray people who thought were his friends, but because he said something nice about himself we are expected to believe it?
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    RobD said:

    Tim_B said:

    I like the idea of Eurosceptic big breasts.

    Then I re-read it. :(
    You're saying they are great tits?
    Well there are a lot of boobs in politics.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969
    edited January 2016
    I'm glad I haven't gone into politics, if my exes revealed my texts to them.

    My sense of humour would have got me into so much trouble.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,961
    Tim_B said:

    RobD said:

    Tim_B said:

    I like the idea of Eurosceptic big breasts.

    Then I re-read it. :(
    You're saying they are great tits?
    Well there are a lot of boobs in politics.
    If politics is showbusiness for the ugly, then there are also a lot of rough-faced shags.....
  • Is that all? The man was not only liar but he lived and breathed lying, he was prepared and did betray people who thought were his friends, but because he said something nice about himself we are expected to believe it?

    It was a frank autobiography. He was self critical, quite critical of the Soviet Union in the book too, rather the leaders.

    The reality of Communism wasn't quite what he expecting.

    I know it is hard to take Stanley at face value, but I believed him.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969
    edited January 2016
    *contemplating writing about Eunuch orgies in the morning thread*
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Is that all? The man was not only liar but he lived and breathed lying, he was prepared and did betray people who thought were his friends, but because he said something nice about himself we are expected to believe it?

    It was a frank autobiography. He was self critical, quite critical of the Soviet Union in the book too, rather the leaders.

    The reality of Communism wasn't quite what he expecting.

    I know it is hard to take Stanley at face value, but I believed him.
    I seem to recall that his last wife Rufina(?) said that in the 1980s he saw that Communism wasn't quite what he expected. From the 1930s he felt it was the future but became disillusioned in his latter years.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    *contemplating writing about Eunuch orgies in the morning thread*

    Evening, surely? ;)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Honestly, I'm planning to vote Leave, but given how vicious I'm sure the fight will be (sure, promises it won't be now, I'll bet, but we'll see as we approach), a rapproachment reshuffle seems like it would not even be deserved, assuming Cameron even gets the opportunity. It's not like they will return the favour and say he should stay on, if he loses.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Is that all? The man was not only liar but he lived and breathed lying, he was prepared and did betray people who thought were his friends, but because he said something nice about himself we are expected to believe it?

    It was a frank autobiography. He was self critical, quite critical of the Soviet Union in the book too, rather the leaders.

    The reality of Communism wasn't quite what he expecting.

    I know it is hard to take Stanley at face value, but I believed him.
    Does your lawyering still involve criminal work? I only ask because if you are prepared to believe Philby you must be prepared to believe anyone, and that to a lawyer in criminal practice must be a very useful trait.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/683434445806899200

    LOL. Tell me that is a spoof.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Ooh, people dispirited by Tory (and particular, Cameroon) resurgency since the GE will like the title of this piece - much more commonly seen thoughts prior to the GE

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/12077533/People-might-like-Cameron-more-if-he-wasnt-such-a-phoney.html

    We've moved back away from 'Actually, it turns out that, in relative terms, people actually like Cameron ok' to the once more common, and no doubt future more common 'Cameron is a posh phoney who people don't warm to'.
  • Is that all? The man was not only liar but he lived and breathed lying, he was prepared and did betray people who thought were his friends, but because he said something nice about himself we are expected to believe it?

    It was a frank autobiography. He was self critical, quite critical of the Soviet Union in the book too, rather the leaders.

    The reality of Communism wasn't quite what he expecting.

    I know it is hard to take Stanley at face value, but I believed him.
    Does your lawyering still involve criminal work? I only ask because if you are prepared to believe Philby you must be prepared to believe anyone, and that to a lawyer in criminal practice must be a very useful trait.
    Well I'm an optimist, I like to see the good in all people.

    Except Mark Reckless, now that really was a case of unspeakable, unforgivable, treacherous defection, when he left the Tory Party for UKIP :lol:
  • RobD said:

    twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/683434445806899200

    LOL. Tell me that is a spoof.
    No, he appears to be a genuine US politico
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969
    edited January 2016
    kle4 said:

    Ooh, people dispirited by Tory (and particular, Cameroon) resurgency since the GE will like the title of this piece - much more commonly seen thoughts prior to the GE

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/12077533/People-might-like-Cameron-more-if-he-wasnt-such-a-phoney.html

    We've moved back away from 'Actually, it turns out that, in relative terms, people actually like Cameron ok' to the once more common, and no doubt future more common 'Cameron is a posh phoney who people don't warm to'.

    Simon Heffer is a tw@

    He's one of those bell ends who has never forgiven the Tory party for ditching IDS, because he would have won the 2005 general election.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    edited January 2016
    Tim_B said:

    Is that all? The man was not only liar but he lived and breathed lying, he was prepared and did betray people who thought were his friends, but because he said something nice about himself we are expected to believe it?

    It was a frank autobiography. He was self critical, quite critical of the Soviet Union in the book too, rather the leaders.

    The reality of Communism wasn't quite what he expecting.

    I know it is hard to take Stanley at face value, but I believed him.
    I seem to recall that his last wife Rufina(?) said that in the 1980s he saw that Communism wasn't quite what he expected. From the 1930s he felt it was the future but became disillusioned in his latter years.
    He saw in the 1980s that Communism wasn't quite what he expected? What utter piffle! The bastard had been living in Moscow since 1963 and the horrors of the twenties and thirties were well enough published long before that.

    Maybe in the few years before he died he actually opened his mind to the evidence that had been before him for nearly fifty years and maybe he realised the error of his ways - hence his ghastly "I did it because I wanted a better world" nonsense.

    Philby was by any criteria a nasty, self-centred, lying, shit of the first water. I hope there is a hell because the bastard should be burning in it (along with people who kill whales and those who are cruel to animals).
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969
    edited January 2016

    Tim_B said:

    Is that all? The man was not only liar but he lived and breathed lying, he was prepared and did betray people who thought were his friends, but because he said something nice about himself we are expected to believe it?

    It was a frank autobiography. He was self critical, quite critical of the Soviet Union in the book too, rather the leaders.

    The reality of Communism wasn't quite what he expecting.

    I know it is hard to take Stanley at face value, but I believed him.
    I seem to recall that his last wife Rufina(?) said that in the 1980s he saw that Communism wasn't quite what he expected. From the 1930s he felt it was the future but became disillusioned in his latter years.
    He saw in the 1980s that Communism wasn't quite what he expected? What utter piffle! The bastard had been living in Moscow since 1963 and the horrors of the twenties and thirties were well enough published long before that.

    Maybe in the few years before he died he actually opened his mind to the evidence that had been before him for nearly fifty years and maybe he realised the error of his ways - hence his ghastly "I did it because I wanted a better world" nonsense.

    Philby was by any criteria a nasty, self-centred, lying, shit of the first water. I hope there is a hell because the bastard should be burning in it (along with people who kill whales and those who are cruel to animals).
    I think he was quite well treated by the Soviets for most of his stay in Moscow, so he never got to see how Communism affected the average Muscovite until the end.

    But totally agree with you on your final paragraph.

    Worst of all Philby et al besmirched the name of the finest University in the world.
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    edited January 2016
    RobD said:

    twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/683434445806899200

    LOL. Tell me that is a spoof.
    I assumed with a name like Grover Norquist it had to be a spoof account. Turns out he is a legitimate person.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    edited January 2016

    Is that all? The man was not only liar but he lived and breathed lying, he was prepared and did betray people who thought were his friends, but because he said something nice about himself we are expected to believe it?

    It was a frank autobiography. He was self critical, quite critical of the Soviet Union in the book too, rather the leaders.

    The reality of Communism wasn't quite what he expecting.

    I know it is hard to take Stanley at face value, but I believed him.
    Does your lawyering still involve criminal work? I only ask because if you are prepared to believe Philby you must be prepared to believe anyone, and that to a lawyer in criminal practice must be a very useful trait.
    Well I'm an optimist, I like to see the good in all people.

    Except Mark Reckless, now that really was a case of unspeakable, unforgivable, treacherous defection, when he left the Tory Party for UKIP :lol:
    Good answer, Mr. Eagles, it made me laugh.

    P.S. On the Heffer article front, did you actually read it? What ever you may think of Heffer, and who doesn't, Cameron wearing the right wellies so as not to appear too posh does rather show a side of the man that lots of people like to overlook.

    P.P.S. Just seen your latest post. I never knew you were a Cambridge man. You have kept that quiet all these years.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625

    Tim_B said:

    Is that all? The man was not only liar but he lived and breathed lying, he was prepared and did betray people who thought were his friends, but because he said something nice about himself we are expected to believe it?

    It was a frank autobiography. He was self critical, quite critical of the Soviet Union in the book too, rather the leaders.

    The reality of Communism wasn't quite what he expecting.

    I know it is hard to take Stanley at face value, but I believed him.
    I seem to recall that his last wife Rufina(?) said that in the 1980s he saw that Communism wasn't quite what he expected. From the 1930s he felt it was the future but became disillusioned in his latter years.
    He saw in the 1980s that Communism wasn't quite what he expected? What utter piffle! The bastard had been living in Moscow since 1963 and the horrors of the twenties and thirties were well enough published long before that.

    Maybe in the few years before he died he actually opened his mind to the evidence that had been before him for nearly fifty years and maybe he realised the error of his ways - hence his ghastly "I did it because I wanted a better world" nonsense.

    Philby was by any criteria a nasty, self-centred, lying, shit of the first water. I hope there is a hell because the bastard should be burning in it (along with people who kill whales and those who are cruel to animals).
    That kind of self centered I-am-acting-for-the-good-of-the-souls-of-the-people was the common excuse for his kind of scum bag.

    Many years ago, I was at the home of Oxford academic - life paid for by the college, including his travel, nice home full of books, great pension etc. So this 80 something arsehole lectured about how the fall of the Berlin Wall was the greatest sorrow of his life - that young people had abandoned the great dream... for American music etc.

    At that point I told the story, as savagely as I could of my relative, the train, the soviet soldier and the piece of broken metal. I enjoyed the horror on his face.
  • Is that all? The man was not only liar but he lived and breathed lying, he was prepared and did betray people who thought were his friends, but because he said something nice about himself we are expected to believe it?

    It was a frank autobiography. He was self critical, quite critical of the Soviet Union in the book too, rather the leaders.

    The reality of Communism wasn't quite what he expecting.

    I know it is hard to take Stanley at face value, but I believed him.
    Does your lawyering still involve criminal work? I only ask because if you are prepared to believe Philby you must be prepared to believe anyone, and that to a lawyer in criminal practice must be a very useful trait.
    Well I'm an optimist, I like to see the good in all people.

    Except Mark Reckless, now that really was a case of unspeakable, unforgivable, treacherous defection, when he left the Tory Party for UKIP :lol:
    Good answer, Mr. Eagles, it made me laugh.

    P.S. On the Heffer article front, did you actually read it? What ever you may think of Heffer, and who doesn't, Cameron wearing the right wellies so as not to appear too posh does rather show a side of the man that lots of people like to overlook.
    No I didn't read it fully, I'm hastily writing a new morning thread, and may have allowed my prejudice of Simon Heffer to pre-empt what I thought the Heffer piece might have said based on Kle4 precis
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    edited January 2016

    Tim_B said:

    Is that all? The man was not only liar but he lived and breathed lying, he was prepared and did betray people who thought were his friends, but because he said something nice about himself we are expected to believe it?

    It was a frank autobiography. He was self critical, quite critical of the Soviet Union in the book too, rather the leaders.

    The reality of Communism wasn't quite what he expecting.

    I know it is hard to take Stanley at face value, but I believed him.
    I seem to recall that his last wife Rufina(?) said that in the 1980s he saw that Communism wasn't quite what he expected. From the 1930s he felt it was the future but became disillusioned in his latter years.
    He saw in the 1980s that Communism wasn't quite what he expected? What utter piffle! The bastard had been living in Moscow since 1963 and the horrors of the twenties and thirties were well enough published long before that.

    Maybe in the few years before he died he actually opened his mind to the evidence that had been before him for nearly fifty years and maybe he realised the error of his ways - hence his ghastly "I did it because I wanted a better world" nonsense.

    Philby was by any criteria a nasty, self-centred, lying, shit of the first water. I hope there is a hell because the bastard should be burning in it (along with people who kill whales and those who are cruel to animals).
    I'm not going to defend or attempt to Justify Philby, Burgess, Maclean, Cairncross and Blunt in any way at all.

    That they believed in communism and betrayed their country is beyond doubt. We will probably never know how many lives were lost because of their treachery.

    If in his declining years he was somewhat disillusioned with what he had dedicated his life to, then that's a plus.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    edited January 2016

    Is that all? The man was not only liar but he lived and breathed lying, he was prepared and did betray people who thought were his friends, but because he said something nice about himself we are expected to believe it?

    It was a frank autobiography. He was self critical, quite critical of the Soviet Union in the book too, rather the leaders.

    The reality of Communism wasn't quite what he expecting.

    I know it is hard to take Stanley at face value, but I believed him.
    Does your lawyering still involve criminal work? I only ask because if you are prepared to believe Philby you must be prepared to believe anyone, and that to a lawyer in criminal practice must be a very useful trait.
    Well I'm an optimist, I like to see the good in all people.

    Except Mark Reckless, now that really was a case of unspeakable, unforgivable, treacherous defection, when he left the Tory Party for UKIP :lol:
    Good answer, Mr. Eagles, it made me laugh.

    P.S. On the Heffer article front, did you actually read it? What ever you may think of Heffer, and who doesn't, Cameron wearing the right wellies so as not to appear too posh does rather show a side of the man that lots of people like to overlook.
    No I didn't read it fully, I'm hastily writing a new morning thread, and may have allowed my prejudice of Simon Heffer to pre-empt what I thought the Heffer piece might have said based on Kle4 precis
    Oh there's plenty of truth to Cameron being worried about appearing posh and the wellies incident typifies that - much was said by most pre GE about people preferring posh people comfortable in their own skin like Boris, than those seemingly embarrassed about it like Cameron. I was struck by the timing and how, in general, it's out of sync with the Cameron narrative since the GE. I did not mean to mislead, I hope. though in my defence it was the title I thought most interesting.

    Good night.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    MP_SE said:

    RobD said:

    twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/683434445806899200

    LOL. Tell me that is a spoof.
    I assumed with a name like Grover Norquist it had to be a spoof account. Turns out he is a legitimate person.
    Grover Norquist is the man who came up with the pledge Republicans signed to not increase taxes.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Tim_B said:

    Is that all? The man was not only liar but he lived and breathed lying, he was prepared and did betray people who thought were his friends, but because he said something nice about himself we are expected to believe it?

    It was a frank autobiography. He was self critical, quite critical of the Soviet Union in the book too, rather the leaders.

    The reality of Communism wasn't quite what he expecting.

    I know it is hard to take Stanley at face value, but I believed him.
    I seem to recall that his last wife Rufina(?) said that in the 1980s he saw that Communism wasn't quite what he expected. From the 1930s he felt it was the future but became disillusioned in his latter years.
    He saw in the 1980s that Communism wasn't quite what he expected? What utter piffle! The bastard had been living in Moscow since 1963 and the horrors of the twenties and thirties were well enough published long before that.

    Maybe in the few years before he died he actually opened his mind to the evidence that had been before him for nearly fifty years and maybe he realised the error of his ways - hence his ghastly "I did it because I wanted a better world" nonsense.

    Philby was by any criteria a nasty, self-centred, lying, shit of the first water. I hope there is a hell because the bastard should be burning in it (along with people who kill whales and those who are cruel to animals).
    That kind of self centered I-am-acting-for-the-good-of-the-souls-of-the-people was the common excuse for his kind of scum bag.

    Many years ago, I was at the home of Oxford academic - life paid for by the college, including his travel, nice home full of books, great pension etc. So this 80 something arsehole lectured about how the fall of the Berlin Wall was the greatest sorrow of his life - that young people had abandoned the great dream... for American music etc.

    At that point I told the story, as savagely as I could of my relative, the train, the soviet soldier and the piece of broken metal. I enjoyed the horror on his face.
    Well done, Mr. Malmesbury! The term "Champagne Socialist" doesn't really do justice to those privileged individuals who live a very comfortable life beyond the dreams of most people and entirely paid for by the capitalists of past and present yet argue that the very system that sustains them is wrong, evil and should be replaced by one that really is wrong and, produces, evil.
  • kle4 said:

    Is that all? The man was not only liar but he lived and breathed lying, he was prepared and did betray people who thought were his friends, but because he said something nice about himself we are expected to believe it?

    It was a frank autobiography. He was self critical, quite critical of the Soviet Union in the book too, rather the leaders.

    The reality of Communism wasn't quite what he expecting.

    I know it is hard to take Stanley at face value, but I believed him.
    Does your lawyering still involve criminal work? I only ask because if you are prepared to believe Philby you must be prepared to believe anyone, and that to a lawyer in criminal practice must be a very useful trait.
    Well I'm an optimist, I like to see the good in all people.

    Except Mark Reckless, now that really was a case of unspeakable, unforgivable, treacherous defection, when he left the Tory Party for UKIP :lol:
    Good answer, Mr. Eagles, it made me laugh.

    P.S. On the Heffer article front, did you actually read it? What ever you may think of Heffer, and who doesn't, Cameron wearing the right wellies so as not to appear too posh does rather show a side of the man that lots of people like to overlook.
    No I didn't read it fully, I'm hastily writing a new morning thread, and may have allowed my prejudice of Simon Heffer to pre-empt what I thought the Heffer piece might have said based on Kle4 precis
    Oh there's plenty of truth to Cameron being worried about appearing posh and the wellies incident typifies that - much was said by most pre GE about people preferring posh people comfortable in their own skin like Boris, than those seemingly embarrassed about it like Cameron. I was struck by the timing and how, in general, it's out of sync with the Cameron narrative since the GE. I did not mean to mislead, I hope. though in my defence it was the title I thought most interesting.

    Good night.
    I know you would never mislead anyone.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903

    Is that all? The man was not only liar but he lived and breathed lying, he was prepared and did betray people who thought were his friends, but because he said something nice about himself we are expected to believe it?

    It was a frank autobiography. He was self critical, quite critical of the Soviet Union in the book too, rather the leaders.

    The reality of Communism wasn't quite what he expecting.

    I know it is hard to take Stanley at face value, but I believed him.
    Does your lawyering still involve criminal work? I only ask because if you are prepared to believe Philby you must be prepared to believe anyone, and that to a lawyer in criminal practice must be a very useful trait.
    Well I'm an optimist, I like to see the good in all people.

    Except Mark Reckless, now that really was a case of unspeakable, unforgivable, treacherous defection, when he left the Tory Party for UKIP :lol:
    Good answer, Mr. Eagles, it made me laugh.

    P.S. On the Heffer article front, did you actually read it? What ever you may think of Heffer, and who doesn't, Cameron wearing the right wellies so as not to appear too posh does rather show a side of the man that lots of people like to overlook.

    P.P.S. Just seen your latest post. I never knew you were a Cambridge man. You have kept that quiet all these years.
    Oh please spare us. What did Heffer think of Wilson smoking cigars in private and pipes in public.
    He is really reducing politics to wellies? The worlds biggest hypocrite is Corbyn, ever since he stopped stuffing his shirt pocket with biros.
    Go take a cold bath.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    TFA: 6 1/4 / 10. Passable but Dear God why would anyone want to see it 4 times.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    Pulpstar said:

    TFA: 6 1/4 / 10. Passable but Dear God why would anyone want to see it 4 times.

    The astronomer in me was pissed off with the fact they could see those five or so other planets from the planet they were on. Similar as in the Star Trek reboot.. grrrrrrrrrr
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Tim_B said:

    Is that all? The man was not only liar but he lived and breathed lying, he was prepared and did betray people who thought were his friends, but because he said something nice about himself we are expected to believe it?

    It was a frank autobiography. He was self critical, quite critical of the Soviet Union in the book too, rather the leaders.

    The reality of Communism wasn't quite what he expecting.

    I know it is hard to take Stanley at face value, but I believed him.
    I seem to recall that his last wife Rufina(?) said that in the 1980s he saw that Communism wasn't quite what he expected. From the 1930s he felt it was the future but became disillusioned in his latter years.
    He saw in the 1980s that Communism wasn't quite what he expected? What utter piffle! The bastard had been living in Moscow since 1963 and the horrors of the twenties and thirties were well enough published long before that.

    Maybe in the few years before he died he actually opened his mind to the evidence that had been before him for nearly fifty years and maybe he realised the error of his ways - hence his ghastly "I did it because I wanted a better world" nonsense.

    Philby was by any criteria a nasty, self-centred, lying, shit of the first water. I hope there is a hell because the bastard should be burning in it (along with people who kill whales and those who are cruel to animals).
    That kind of self centered I-am-acting-for-the-good-of-the-souls-of-the-people was the common excuse for his kind of scum bag.

    Many years ago, I was at the home of Oxford academic - life paid for by the college, including his travel, nice home full of books, great pension etc. So this 80 something arsehole lectured about how the fall of the Berlin Wall was the greatest sorrow of his life - that young people had abandoned the great dream... for American music etc.

    At that point I told the story, as savagely as I could of my relative, the train, the soviet soldier and the piece of broken metal. I enjoyed the horror on his face.
    Well done, Mr. Malmesbury! The term "Champagne Socialist" doesn't really do justice to those privileged individuals who live a very comfortable life beyond the dreams of most people and entirely paid for by the capitalists of past and present yet argue that the very system that sustains them is wrong, evil and should be replaced by one that really is wrong and, produces, evil.
    The Cecil Rhodes syndrome?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited January 2016
    One of the Tory Party’s rising stars has revealed how he is living on a boat in east London while attending Parliament to avoid “obscene” house prices in the capital.

    Johnny Mercer, a former soldier in Afghanistan elected in May, decided to bring his boat up from the South coast and moor it near Canada Water rather than rent a flat.

    The set-up sees the 34-year-old survive without central heating or a shower but he says he prefers the reminder of family life to a hotel room.

    The choice will see the Plymouth Moor View MP claim just £2,400 a year in expenses for accommodation – far less than the £23,000 politicians with children are entitled to.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/12062383/Tory-MP-sleeps-on-boat-in-east-London-to-avoid-obscene-house-prices-in-capital.html

    I am sure the Mirror headline to this news will be, Bloody Tories and their boats ;-)
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    I was just about to post a link to this story. Should guarantee him an increased majority at the next election.

    One of the Tory Party’s rising stars has revealed how he is living on a boat in east London while attending Parliament to avoid “obscene” house prices in the capital.

    Johnny Mercer, a former soldier in Afghanistan elected in May, decided to bring his boat up from the South coast and moor it near Canada Water rather than rent a flat.

    The set-up sees the 34-year-old survive without central heating or a shower but he says he prefers the reminder of family life to a hotel room.

    The choice will see the Plymouth Moor View MP claim just £2,400 a year in expenses for accommodation – far less than the £23,000 politicians with children are entitled to.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/12062383/Tory-MP-sleeps-on-boat-in-east-London-to-avoid-obscene-house-prices-in-capital.html

    I am sure the Mirror headline to this news will be, Bloody Tories and their boats ;-)

  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    TFA: 6 1/4 / 10. Passable but Dear God why would anyone want to see it 4 times.

    The astronomer in me was pissed off with the fact they could see those five or so other planets from the planet they were on. Similar as in the Star Trek reboot.. grrrrrrrrrr
    How far in you is this alleged astronomer?

    I shall avoid Uranus jokes out of good taste and modesty.
  • One of the Tory Party’s rising stars has revealed how he is living on a boat in east London while attending Parliament to avoid “obscene” house prices in the capital.

    Johnny Mercer, a former soldier in Afghanistan elected in May, decided to bring his boat up from the South coast and moor it near Canada Water rather than rent a flat.

    The set-up sees the 34-year-old survive without central heating or a shower but he says he prefers the reminder of family life to a hotel room.

    The choice will see the Plymouth Moor View MP claim just £2,400 a year in expenses for accommodation – far less than the £23,000 politicians with children are entitled to.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/12062383/Tory-MP-sleeps-on-boat-in-east-London-to-avoid-obscene-house-prices-in-capital.html

    I am sure the Mirror headline to this news will be, Bloody Tories and their boats ;-)

    I hope PBers understand why I have humongous mancrush on Johnny Mercer.
This discussion has been closed.