@georgegalloway: Labour can do nothing about the BBC but what about their MP Steven Doughty who admits to conspiring with them to damage his own party?
Idiot. Doughty's 'conspiring' consisted of intending to resign, after which he would be asked questions on air by journalists, and he just agreed to speed the matter up by appearing even sooner after sending his letter of resignation that would normally be the case.
Meredith Owen Anyone know how many of the Labour leadership contenders who promised to take in a syrian refugee during the campaign have actual done so?
My fear is it will be just like "Je Suis Charlie"...all forgotten in a few weeks, until there are more problems. Then we rinse and repeat the cycle.
Pretty sure the gov doesn't just permit people to open up their spare bedrooms for possible refugees? I thought they had to go through local authorities to ensure appropriate properties, local school places, that sort of thing?
''It's all happening faster in Europe for all the obvious reasons. But I think it's a global trend that will reach everywhere in the end.''
I know it's a curious and perhaps daft example, but it struck me when watching the world darts over Christmas.
The overwhelmingly British audience love the top class Dutch players to bits and often support them over locals. There really is genuine mutual affection.
Another sporting example is the European team of the Ryder Cup.
To me, all that's needed is time and patience. Europe will homogenise naturally if only its leaders would let it. They are just so impatient for a superstate.
Good conclusion. The only time I ever consider myself as European is when the Ryder Cup is on.
Sport is actually a pretty useful way to forge those sorts of new identities, to be honest.
What's the most amazing thing about this story is that the journo (LauraK) that has caused this issue was only a few weeks ago being tapped up by Milne for advice on working the media more effectively. So clearly in the recent past, she was see as very least somebody who they trusted enough to ask advice from.
Given that Corbyn's team clearly have it in for every media outlet in the country except the Morning Star, how do they think they will be able to get their message across before the election apart from the legal balance requirement on the TV news?
Yiannopoulos, whose public profile has been soaring since September 2014, was verified in mid-2015 and is the subject of dozens, if not hundreds, of parody and fan accounts. He is listed on the Drudge Report as one of Matt Drudge’s favourite writers and is one of the rising stars of libertarian and conservative media.
His unverification appears to be the first time a major media personality has been stripped of a blue badge by Twitter. The company refuses to be drawn on why it had taken the popular journalist and commentator’s verified status away.
I believe Milo Yiannopoulos has been very vocal about bias against conservatives by certain social media companies.
Given that Corbyn's team clearly have it in for every media outlet in the country except the Morning Star, how do they think they will be able to get their message across before the election apart from the legal balance requirement on the TV news?
It is quite an amazing achievement, that even the more mainstream parts of the media who were initial quite pro-Corbynism and very pro bash the big corporations, the bankers, the Tories etc, now even they aren't giving him much positive press.
The Republican Right in America has the Tea Party. Never to be outdone in the outrage stakes, Scotland now has its equally angry Teacake Party, threatening boycott and retribution against the mighty Tunnock’s empire.
What's the most amazing thing about this story is that the journo (LauraK) that has caused this issue was only a few weeks ago being tapped up by Milne for advice on working the media more effectively. So clearly in the recent past, she was see as very least somebody who they trusted enough to ask advice from.
I hope the next time she is asked for advice she gives it in the most strident terms
The Republican Right in America has the Tea Party. Never to be outdone in the outrage stakes, Scotland now has its equally angry Teacake Party, threatening boycott and retribution against the mighty Tunnock’s empire.
@LeeThom06347754: @Harryslaststand Dan Jarvis is another career politician. This is an epidemic affecting most MPs which sadly causes mass disengagement.
What's the most amazing thing about this story is that the journo (LauraK) that has caused this issue was only a few weeks ago being tapped up by Milne for advice on working the media more effectively. So clearly in the recent past, she was see as very least somebody who they trusted enough to ask advice from.
They're just mightily peeved that the resigning minister made sure that the letter he sent to Corbyn arrived in his office after he'd left for the Commons and PMQs, so the first that most of the party knew about the resignation was when he popped up on the Daily Politics with a smiling Laura K
Any party leadership would be upset in the same situation, but they should really take it up privately with the man who resigned, not publicly with the journalists who were, umm, just being journalists! Great scoop for Laura though, well done!
Is it the case that Angela Merkel will not be seeking a further term as Chancellor? I seem to recall comments from 2013 to the effect that she was fighting her last election
Laura Kuenssberg is the most right wing political correspondent the BBC has had. She came from ITV so followed Tom Bradby in his fawning for the Royals and Conservative politics.
Jarvis is not enamoured of the current state of the party. He says it’s in a state of “collective amnesia”. “We’ve lost two general elections on the trot, we’re on a downward trajectory as a party and have been for 10 or more years, and we need to understand why the public didn’t feel they could put their trust in us. We are an industrial party in a post-industrial age. If Clement Attlee turned up to a Labour party meeting tonight, he would feel very comfortable. The model by which we do our politics is outdated.”
Where is all this anti-Jarvis stuff coming from? Have I missed him saying Thatcher was right or something?
He wants to keep Trident
I see...and that makes him a Tory plant...they really are nutjobs these Corbynite followers. But then you only have to look at the NUS welfare officer who is a big Corbynite. She spends her time helping CAGE get into unis to spread their hate.
I can't remember where I read the comment but it was suggested that Labour deliberately created a fuss, so in future, the BBC would be reluctant to accept any resignation on air. I don't agree, myself.
Such a fuss has been made of this by all sides, with journalists tweeting themselves silly, that I'm not sure if anyone comes out of it well.
There is far more serious news to cover, i.e. the alleged sexual assaults on New Year's Eve. I think this is only the start of it!
But is it to be seriously suggested that troops from the Aggressor countries - UK and US - should not be held to account for alleged atrocities committed ? At the very least such allegations deserve to be investigated in detail.
The Republican Right in America has the Tea Party. Never to be outdone in the outrage stakes, Scotland now has its equally angry Teacake Party, threatening boycott and retribution against the mighty Tunnock’s empire.
Laura Kuenssberg is the most right wing political correspondent the BBC has had. She came from ITV so followed Tom Bradby in his fawning for the Royals and Conservative politics.
Kuenssberg is the daughter of a left wing academic. She was trusted by Seamus Milne a rabid marxist.
Where is all this anti-Jarvis stuff coming from? Have I missed him saying Thatcher was right or something?
He wants to keep Trident
Jarvis is a Tory. You know, just like 90% of the Labour MPs. Corbynista lunacy really does know no bounds. Poor Labour. One decade a colossus, the next, a cult.
Laura Kuenssberg is the most right wing political correspondent the BBC has had. She came from ITV so followed Tom Bradby in his fawning for the Royals and Conservative politics.
Kuenssberg is the daughter of a left wing academic. She was trusted by Seamus Milne a rabid marxist.
Yes, but she's done something disagreeable to the Corbynista lunatics, hence: Tory. It's a very simple algorithm, you'll soon get the hang of it.
A breaking of the covenant. Cameron needs to quickly introduce a solution.
British Army atrocities to go unpunished! What would we have said if the Nazis had behaved like that? I suppose it is a case of 'If they committed murder in our name we must do our very best to cover up for them'.
But is it to be seriously suggested that troops from the Aggressor countries - UK and US - should not be held to account for alleged atrocities committed ? At the very least such allegations deserve to be investigated in detail.
Yes, it is to be seriously suggested. This is PB comments, after all, where liveblogging the right-wing Twittersphere comprises about fifty per cent of the content.
Yet more baffling behaviour from Labour - but it has always been so, at least to me.
I'm a floating voter who has voted Conservative (mostly), plus Green and Liberal Democrat. I understand what each of those three parties stands for and I mostly know which policies of each of these parties I agree with and disagree with. Broadly speaking, I know what I'm voting for when I vote Conservative, Green or LibDem. I also believe I understand what UKIP stands for too (though I would never vote for them as there's not really very much common ground there with my own views).
Labour, however, have always been something of a mystery to me. I've never really understood what they stand for or how their thought processes work and I don't believe they've (collectively as a party) ever understood what they stand for either (at least not within my voting lifetime). That's the main bar to me ever voting Labour - I have absolutely no idea what a vote cast for Labour is a vote for and I don't think anyone in Labour is likely to be able to tell me in the near to medium future.
But is it to be seriously suggested that troops from the Aggressor countries - UK and US - should not be held to account for alleged atrocities committed ? At the very least such allegations deserve to be investigated in detail.
Yes, it is to be seriously suggested. This is PB comments, after all, where liveblogging the right-wing Twittersphere comprises about fifty per cent of the content.
I for one would welcome live blogging from the left wing twittersphere. Either way it provides leaping off point for further comment.
Where is all this anti-Jarvis stuff coming from? Have I missed him saying Thatcher was right or something?
He wants to keep Trident
Jarvis is a Tory. You know, just like 90% of the Labour MPs. Corbynista lunacy really does know no bounds. Poor Labour. One decade a colossus, the next, a cult.
I wonder if the Conservative Party Chairman has actually got hold of Mr Jarvis' phone number?
There must be a few MPs seriously considering resigning the whip, if not crossing the floor?
But is it to be seriously suggested that troops from the Aggressor countries - UK and US - should not be held to account for alleged atrocities committed ? At the very least such allegations deserve to be investigated in detail.
Yes, it is to be seriously suggested. This is PB comments, after all, where liveblogging the right-wing Twittersphere comprises about fifty per cent of the content.
For what it's worth, one of my sacred cows is that everybody is equal under the law, without fear or favour. That includes politicians, soldiers, immigrants, priests and so on and so forth.
Having worked with the forces a good deal, I still feel queasy at armchair criticism of decisions made in the heat of battle. But that's all. I think anyone who's been in combat can tell the difference between killing someone and murdering them.
A breaking of the covenant. Cameron needs to quickly introduce a solution.
British Army atrocities to go unpunished! What would we have said if the Nazis had behaved like that? I suppose it is a case of 'If they committed murder in our name we must do our very best to cover up for them'. Let them sue the MoD but without a penny of legal aid.
Where is all this anti-Jarvis stuff coming from? Have I missed him saying Thatcher was right or something?
He wants to keep Trident
Jarvis is a Tory. You know, just like 90% of the Labour MPs. Corbynista lunacy really does know no bounds. Poor Labour. One decade a colossus, the next, a cult.
I wonder if the Conservative Party Chairman has actually got hold of Mr Jarvis' phone number?
There must be a few MPs seriously considering resigning the whip, if not crossing the floor?
I am sure that Lord Feldman is just the type of fellow he would like to do business with - someone who would never touch 'bullying' of any kind with a bargepole.
Laura Kuenssberg is the most right wing political correspondent the BBC has had. She came from ITV so followed Tom Bradby in his fawning for the Royals and Conservative politics.
Kuenssberg is the daughter of a left wing academic. She was trusted by Seamus Milne a rabid marxist.
So what a lot of people have relations of a different political persuasion. Milne judgement you are relying on ?
Of course the problem is Labour's poor media operation, which is of course why Labour's poor media operation is blaming the BBC (and everybody else) for its own failings.
Is it the case that Angela Merkel will not be seeking a further term as Chancellor? I seem to recall comments from 2013 to the effect that she was fighting her last election
That'd be an interesting one - what is the base level of popularity of the CDU sans Merkel, do we know?
I can't remember where I read the comment but it was suggested that Labour deliberately created a fuss, so in future, the BBC would be reluctant to accept any resignation on air. I don't agree, myself. !
I believe Dan Hodges for one suggested that. I could see it working, whether it was the intention or not.
@LeeThom06347754: @Harryslaststand Dan Jarvis is another career politician. This is an epidemic affecting most MPs which sadly causes mass disengagement.
I think 'career politician' and 'spad', both things people generally dislike even more than the average politician (to a degree - it doesn't stop them being leaders, in fact we seen to reward such people) and so have become meaningless insults. Trot is another one, in the other direction.
A breaking of the covenant. Cameron needs to quickly introduce a solution.
British Army atrocities to go unpunished! What would we have said if the Nazis had behaved like that? I suppose it is a case of 'If they committed murder in our name we must do our very best to cover up for them'. If they want to sue Britain let them sue Britain and have the Government's lawyers deal with it. Certainly with no legal aid.
Individual soldiers are not fair game for such vexatious and spurious litigation, that's not what they signed up for and the government needs to very quickly sort it out.
From a party political point of view, this will see Conservative members posting their membership cards back in their thousands if they don't get it sorted.
A breaking of the covenant. Cameron needs to quickly introduce a solution.
British Army atrocities to go unpunished! What would we have said if the Nazis had behaved like that? I suppose it is a case of 'If they committed murder in our name we must do our very best to cover up for them'.
If they want to sue Britain let them sue Britain and have the Government's lawyers deal with it.
Individual soldiers are not fair game for such vexatious and spurious litigation, that's not what they signed up for and the government needs to very quickly sort it out.
From a party political point of view, this will see Conservative members posting their membership cards back in their thousands if they don't get it sorted.
I wonder what Mrs Bucket thinks? Maybe somebody should ask her...
Where is all this anti-Jarvis stuff coming from? Have I missed him saying Thatcher was right or something?
He wants to keep Trident
Jarvis is a Tory. You know, just like 90% of the Labour MPs. Corbynista lunacy really does know no bounds. Poor Labour. One decade a colossus, the next, a cult.
I wonder if the Conservative Party Chairman has actually got hold of Mr Jarvis' phone number?
There must be a few MPs seriously considering resigning the whip, if not crossing the floor?
They won't but I wish one would, purely for the sheer joy of watching the Corbynite heads explode.
@seantduffy: I don't get the Dan Jarvis love. I've seen him speak - he was very average, certainly not in Cameron's league. Also - he hasn't done much.
A breaking of the covenant. Cameron needs to quickly introduce a solution.
British Army atrocities to go unpunished! What would we have said if the Nazis had behaved like that? I suppose it is a case of 'If they committed murder in our name we must do our very best to cover up for them'.
If they want to sue Britain let them sue Britain and have the Government's lawyers deal with it.
Individual soldiers are not fair game for such vexatious and spurious litigation, that's not what they signed up for and the government needs to very quickly sort it out.
From a party political point of view, this will see Conservative members posting their membership cards back in their thousands if they don't get it sorted.
If the allegations are 'vexatious and spurious' then that will surely emerge in the course of a proper investigation. I cannot imagine the prosecuting authorities bringing anyone to trial in the absence of pretty strong evidence.
@seantduffy: I don't get the Dan Jarvis love. I've seen him speak - he was very average, certainly not in Cameron's league. Also - he hasn't done much.
And this guy is doing a PhD in education...in my day you had to be really bright to get a funded PhD place....now they fund c##p like this.."Precarious Transitions: How education shapes young working class individuals’ perceptions of work in austerity Scotland"
Where is all this anti-Jarvis stuff coming from? Have I missed him saying Thatcher was right or something?
He wants to keep Trident
Jarvis is a Tory. You know, just like 90% of the Labour MPs. Corbynista lunacy really does know no bounds. Poor Labour. One decade a colossus, the next, a cult.
There must be a few MPs seriously considering resigning the whip, if not crossing the floor?
I can't believe that. Corbyn's not even in place a year, even if someone thinks he will last the distance, and many do not, not worthy resigning the whip now even.
As for crossing the floor, every Labour rebel I've seen appears very clear one reason they are angry is the Tories are getting away with crappy government because of Corbyn incompetence or policies which will prevent a Labour government correcting that Tory government. Even if a few, in private, are thinking it would not be a crazy idea, the atmosphere seems hostile to such a move, and the Tories may change leader and/or tack right during and after the EU civil war to come, so even if you think Cameron is a centrish, acceptable leader, changing now would be silly.
Then you have the pressure there would be to have a by-election in the event of crossing the floor - they wouldn't have to, but the Carswell principle is hard to argue against, and if they did it most would lose.
A breaking of the covenant. Cameron needs to quickly introduce a solution.
British Army atrocities to go unpunished! What would we have said if the Nazis had behaved like that? I suppose it is a case of 'If they committed murder in our name we must do our very best to cover up for them'.
If they want to sue Britain let them sue Britain and have the Government's lawyers deal with it.
Individual soldiers are not fair game for such vexatious and spurious litigation, that's not what they signed up for and the government needs to very quickly sort it out.
From a party political point of view, this will see Conservative members posting their membership cards back in their thousands if they don't get it sorted.
If the allegations are 'vexatious and spurious' then that will surely emerge in the course of a proper investigation. I cannot imagine the prosecuting authorities bringing anyone to trial in the absence of pretty strong evidence. They are vexatious purely by being aimed at individual soldiers, and trying to prosecute them personally, funded with legal aid. If they want to sue the British government for compensation, let them sue the SoS for Defence or take the UK to an international court.
A breaking of the covenant. Cameron needs to quickly introduce a solution.
British Army atrocities to go unpunished! What would we have said if the Nazis had behaved like that? I suppose it is a case of 'If they committed murder in our name we must do our very best to cover up for them'.
If they want to sue Britain let them sue Britain and have the Government's lawyers deal with it. Certainly with no legal aid.
Individual soldiers are not fair game for such vexatious and spurious litigation, that's not what they signed up for and the government needs to very quickly sort it out.
From a party political point of view, this will see Conservative members posting their membership cards back in their thousands if they don't get it sorted.
The logic there rather implies that the numerous crimes committed by the SS in World War 2 should have been addressed by suing the German Government - rather than bringing the individual murderers to trial. I suppose it is a view - but it is not how we proceeded post 1945.
@seantduffy: I don't get the Dan Jarvis love. I've seen him speak - he was very average, certainly not in Cameron's league. Also - he hasn't done much.
Sums up Labour's problem - ABC by definition must be the new messiah.
A breaking of the covenant. Cameron needs to quickly introduce a solution.
British Army atrocities to go unpunished! What would we have said if the Nazis had behaved like that? I suppose it is a case of 'If they committed murder in our name we must do our very best to cover up for them'.
If they want to sue Britain let them sue Britain and have the Government's lawyers deal with it.
Individual soldiers are not fair game for such vexatious and spurious litigation, that's not what they signed up for and the government needs to very quickly sort it out.
From a party political point of view, this will see Conservative members posting their membership cards back in their thousands if they don't get it sorted.
If the allegations are 'vexatious and spurious' then that will surely emerge in the course of a proper investigation. I cannot imagine the prosecuting authorities bringing anyone to trial in the absence of pretty strong evidence.
We've already seen false allegations made against British servicemen, during the course of the Al-Sweady Inquiry. Leigh Day have been referred to the Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal as a result.
Is it the case that Angela Merkel will not be seeking a further term as Chancellor? I seem to recall comments from 2013 to the effect that she was fighting her last election
A breaking of the covenant. Cameron needs to quickly introduce a solution.
British Army atrocities to go unpunished! What would we have said if the Nazis had behaved like that? I suppose it is a case of 'If they committed murder in our name we must do our very best to cover up for them'.
If they want to sue Britain let them sue Britain and have the Government's lawyers deal with it. Certainly with no legal aid.
Individual soldiers are not fair game for such vexatious and spurious litigation, that's not what they signed up for and the government needs to very quickly sort it out.
From a party political point of view, this will see Conservative members posting their membership cards back in their thousands if they don't get it sorted.
The logic there rather implies that the numerous crimes committed by the SS in World War 2 should have been addressed by suing the German Government - rather than bringing the individual murderers to trial. I suppose it is a view - but it is not how we proceeded post 1945.
The British Army is not remotely equivalent to the SS.
A breaking of the covenant. Cameron needs to quickly introduce a solution.
British Army atrocities to go unpunished! What would we have said if the Nazis had behaved like that? I suppose it is a case of 'If they committed murder in our name we must do our very best to cover up for them'.
If they want to sue Britain let them sue Britain and have the Government's lawyers deal with it.
Individual soldiers are not fair game for such vexatious and spurious litigation, that's not what they signed up for and the government needs to very quickly sort it out.
From a party political point of view, this will see Conservative members posting their membership cards back in their thousands if they don't get it sorted.
If the allegations are 'vexatious and spurious' then that will surely emerge in the course of a proper investigation. I cannot imagine the prosecuting authorities bringing anyone to trial in the absence of pretty strong evidence.
We've already seen false allegations made against British servicemen, during the course of the Al-Sweady Inquiry. Leigh Day have been referred to the Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal as a result.
I'm sure the shadow defence secretary will stand up for justice and ensure Leigh Day are properly punished.
Is it the case that Angela Merkel will not be seeking a further term as Chancellor? I seem to recall comments from 2013 to the effect that she was fighting her last election
A breaking of the covenant. Cameron needs to quickly introduce a solution.
British Army atrocities to go unpunished! What would we have said if the Nazis had behaved like that? I suppose it is a case of 'If they committed murder in our name we must do our very best to cover up for them'.
If they want to sue Britain let them sue Britain and have the Government's lawyers deal with it. Certainly with no legal aid.
Individual soldiers are not fair game for such vexatious and spurious litigation, that's not what they signed up for and the government needs to very quickly sort it out.
From a party political point of view, this will see Conservative members posting their membership cards back in their thousands if they don't get it sorted.
The logic there rather implies that the numerous crimes committed by the SS in World War 2 should have been addressed by suing the German Government - rather than bringing the individual murderers to trial. I suppose it is a view - but it is not how we proceeded post 1945.
The British Army is not remotely equivalent to the SS.
That is not the point at all! Due legal process should be the same.
A breaking of the covenant. Cameron needs to quickly introduce a solution.
British Army atrocities to go unpunished! What would we have said if the Nazis had behaved like that? I suppose it is a case of 'If they committed murder in our name we must do our very best to cover up for them'.
If they want to sue Britain let them sue Britain and have the Government's lawyers deal with it. Certainly with no legal aid.
Individual soldiers are not fair game for such vexatious and spurious litigation, that's not what they signed up for and the government needs to very quickly sort it out.
From a party political point of view, this will see Conservative members posting their membership cards back in their thousands if they don't get it sorted.
The logic there rather implies that the numerous crimes committed by the SS in World War 2 should have been addressed by suing the German Government - rather than bringing the individual murderers to trial. I suppose it is a view - but it is not how we proceeded post 1945. Really..?
Britain has not just lost a World War, we are a functioning democracy happy to be sued by anyone in a number of international courts. Individual soldiers are the responsibility of the British government and are not fodder for scumbag lawyers like Leigh Day.
Oh, and whatever they may be accused of doing, it's really really REALLY not the same as what the SS were doing in WWII. Godwin wins the day.
Thornberry will have to make a comment or a statement in the HOC at some point regarding these allegations..I wonder what she will say..given her situation is completely untenable.
A breaking of the covenant. Cameron needs to quickly introduce a solution.
British Army atrocities to go unpunished! What would we have said if the Nazis had behaved like that? I suppose it is a case of 'If they committed murder in our name we must do our very best to cover up for them'.
If they want to sue Britain let them sue Britain and have the Government's lawyers deal with it. Certainly with no legal aid.
Individual soldiers are not fair game for such vexatious and spurious litigation, that's not what they signed up for and the government needs to very quickly sort it out.
From a party political point of view, this will see Conservative members posting their membership cards back in their thousands if they don't get it sorted.
The logic there rather implies that the numerous crimes committed by the SS in World War 2 should have been addressed by suing the German Government - rather than bringing the individual murderers to trial. I suppose it is a view - but it is not how we proceeded post 1945.
The British Army is not remotely equivalent to the SS.
That is not the point at all! Due legal process should be the same.
I think you rather wish to believe that British soldiers are war criminals, purely by reason of having fought in Iraq, and I think that's the motivation of people like Leigh Day.
A breaking of the covenant. Cameron needs to quickly introduce a solution.
British Army atrocities to go unpunished! What would we have said if the Nazis had behaved like that? I suppose it is a case of 'If they committed murder in our name we must do our very best to cover up for them'.
If they want to sue Britain let them sue Britain and have the Government's lawyers deal with it.
Individual soldiers are not fair game for such vexatious and spurious litigation, that's not what they signed up for and the government needs to very quickly sort it out.
From a party political point of view, this will see Conservative members posting their membership cards back in their thousands if they don't get it sorted.
If the allegations are 'vexatious and spurious' then that will surely emerge in the course of a proper investigation. I cannot imagine the prosecuting authorities bringing anyone to trial in the absence of pretty strong evidence.
The problem is that your final sentence is very close to an assumption of guilt. In the past such statements in the public domain would have been enough to have a trial annulled.
A breaking of the covenant. Cameron needs to quickly introduce a solution.
British Army atrocities to go unpunished! What would we have said if the Nazis had behaved like that? I suppose it is a case of 'If they committed murder in our name we must do our very best to cover up for them'.
If they want to sue Britain let them sue Britain and have the Government's lawyers deal with it.
Individual soldiers are not fair game for such vexatious and spurious litigation, that's not what they signed up for and the government needs to very quickly sort it out.
From a party political point of view, this will see Conservative members posting their membership cards back in their thousands if they don't get it sorted.
If the allegations are 'vexatious and spurious' then that will surely emerge in the course of a proper investigation. I cannot imagine the prosecuting authorities bringing anyone to trial in the absence of pretty strong evidence.
The problem is that your final sentence is very close to an assumption of guilt. In the past such statements in the public domain would have been enough to have a trial annulled.
Not at all - that is the basis on which the DPP always proceeds. 'Evidence' and 'Proof' are very different things, and the criminal standard of 'Proven beyond all reasonable doubt' is very demanding - and rightly so.
Ali L Gosh, if only they'd been proactive on New Years Eve this wouldn't have been necessary. Who'd have thunk it? https://t.co/09taK3okIi
Reuters: Police in #Cologne have fired water canon to disperse protesters from the right-wing #PEGIDA movement following NYE sex attacks
A Cloaked Figure Any Cologne attack victims on the Pegida march being water cannoned? That would be quite a double whammy in one week
They better hope that the Pegida mob were causing trouble which required water canonning, otherwise this will be just terrible PR disaster.
They had better hope it was a mob that got water cannoned, not a genuine protest from victims and their supporters. After the way the story played out during the week, it comes across as shutting down those opposed to the cover-up by the authorities.
Important because it emphasises the hypocrisy of the left. Very illuminating that you cannot see it.
Hardly. I just think quibbling over people's wellies is taking looking for hypocrisy in things a bit too minor to care about, and is the sort of thing that has some basis when people on the left complain about automatically critical obsessives. David Cameron's supposed concern about the expensive appearance of his wellies is equally unimportant to me, and I wanted him to be PM in both 2010 and 2015.
I note it was also Leigh Day who a few years ago acted for Kenyan women who brought claims of rape against British soldiers which fell apart under scrutiny.
A breaking of the covenant. Cameron needs to quickly introduce a solution.
British Army atrocities to go unpunished! What would we have said if the Nazis had behaved like that? I suppose it is a case of 'If they committed murder in our name we must do our very best to cover up for them'.
If they want to sue Britain let them sue Britain and have the Government's lawyers deal with it. Certainly with no legal aid.
Individual soldiers are not fair game for such vexatious and spurious litigation, that's not what they signed up for and the government needs to very quickly sort it out.
From a party political point of view, this will see Conservative members posting their membership cards back in their thousands if they don't get it sorted.
The logic there rather implies that the numerous crimes committed by the SS in World War 2 should have been addressed by suing the German Government - rather than bringing the individual murderers to trial. I suppose it is a view - but it is not how we proceeded post 1945.
The British Army is not remotely equivalent to the SS.
That is not the point at all! Due legal process should be the same.
I think you rather wish to believe that British soldiers are war criminals, purely by reason of having fought in Iraq, and I think that's the motivation of people like Leigh Day.
In which case you are totally wrong! I would far prefer to see Blair on trial at the Hague - but the two do not exclude each other as these allegations presumably relate to unlawful conduct in relation to civilians and others on the battlefield - or in the post conflict period.
I notice the BBC / Guardian are doing a nice bit of spin by making a big point of 18 of the 31 had asylum status and none have been charged with sexual crimes....what could they be suggesting? Given the eye witness accounts we know for a fact these crimes were not committed by German (or English) speakers.
A breaking of the covenant. Cameron needs to quickly introduce a solution.
British Army atrocities to go unpunished! What would we have said if the Nazis had behaved like that? I suppose it is a case of 'If they committed murder in our name we must do our very best to cover up for them'.
If they want to sue Britain let them sue Britain and have the Government's lawyers deal with it.
Individual soldiers are not fair game for such vexatious and spurious litigation, that's not what they signed up for and the government needs to very quickly sort it out.
From a party political point of view, this will see Conservative members posting their membership cards back in their thousands if they don't get it sorted.
If the allegations are 'vexatious and spurious' then that will surely emerge in the course of a proper investigation. I cannot imagine the prosecuting authorities bringing anyone to trial in the absence of pretty strong evidence.
The problem is that your final sentence is very close to an assumption of guilt. In the past such statements in the public domain would have been enough to have a trial annulled.
Not at all - that is the basis on which the DPP always proceeds. 'Evidence' and 'Proof' are very different things, and the criminal standard of 'Proven beyond all reasonable doubt' is very demanding - and rightly so.
Indeed - but you're not the DPP and the court of public opinion sees things differently especially when idiots start spouting about ' strong evidence'. Mud sticks - as of course you knew when you wrote it.
A breaking of the covenant. Cameron needs to quickly introduce a solution.
British Army atrocities to go unpunished! What would we have said if the Nazis had behaved like that? I suppose it is a case of 'If they committed murder in our name we must do our very best to cover up for them'.
If they want to sue Britain let them sue Britain and have the Government's lawyers deal with it. Certainly with no legal aid.
Individual soldiers are not fair game for such vexatious and spurious litigation, that's not what they signed up for and the government needs to very quickly sort it out.
From a party political point of view, this will see Conservative members posting their membership cards back in their thousands if they don't get it sorted.
The logic there rather implies that the numerous crimes committed by the SS in World War 2 should have been addressed by suing the German Government - rather than bringing the individual murderers to trial. I suppose it is a view - but it is not how we proceeded post 1945.
Really..?
Britain has not just lost a World War, we are a functioning democracy happy to be sued by anyone in a number of international courts. Individual soldiers are the responsibility of the British government and are not fodder for scumbag lawyers like Leigh Day.
Oh, and whatever they may be accused of doing, it's really really REALLY not the same as what the SS were doing in WWII. Godwin wins the day.
However much you may wish to hide behind Godwin , it is a fact that many individual German - and Japanese - soldiers -both SS and non-SS were charged , tried, convicted - and sometimes executed for specific crimes they were judged to have committed.
Surely Mr Gove and Mr Cameron should be able to put some legislation through quickly making it quite clear that outside the military's disciplinary process, individual soldiers are not fair game for ambulance-chasing scumbag lawyers in British courts.
If they want to sue the UK then they should sue the SoS for Defence, or sue the UK in International courts, with no British legal aid.
Is it correct that certain lawyers have retained Iraqi civilians to actually solicit complaints from former Iraqi combatants about British soldiers?
A breaking of the covenant. Cameron needs to quickly introduce a solution.
British Army atrocities to go unpunished! What would we have said if the Nazis had behaved like that? I suppose it is a case of 'If they committed murder in our name we must do our very best to cover up for them'.
If they want to sue Britain let them sue Britain and have the Government's lawyers deal with it. Certainly with no legal aid.
Individual soldiers are not fair game for such vexatious and spurious litigation, that's not what they signed up for and the government needs to very quickly sort it out.
From a party political point of view, this will see Conservative members posting their membership cards back in their thousands if they don't get it sorted.
The logic there rather implies that the numerous crimes committed by the SS in World War 2 should have been addressed by suing the German Government - rather than bringing the individual murderers to trial. I suppose it is a view - but it is not how we proceeded post 1945.
Really..?
Britain has not just lost a World War, we are a functioning democracy happy to be sued by anyone in a number of international courts. Individual soldiers are the responsibility of the British government and are not fodder for scumbag lawyers like Leigh Day.
Oh, and whatever they may be accused of doing, it's really really REALLY not the same as what the SS were doing in WWII. Godwin wins the day.
However much you may wish to hide behind Godwin , it is a fact that many individual German - and Japanese - soldiers -both SS and non-SS were charged , tried, convicted - and sometimes executed for specific crimes they were judged to have committed. And when the UK loses a war and our government is overthrown, then maybe our soldiers will be fair game for war crimes trials from our victors. Until that day, no chance.
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I went through a pack of six teacakes last week! Not bad! #tunnocks
Khan 1.3m
Goldsmith 1m
Others 567k
https://t.co/bGD77E2TQ0
@LeeThom06347754: @Harryslaststand Dan Jarvis is another career politician. This is an epidemic affecting most MPs which sadly causes mass disengagement.
Any party leadership would be upset in the same situation, but they should really take it up privately with the man who resigned, not publicly with the journalists who were, umm, just being journalists! Great scoop for Laura though, well done!
She came from ITV so followed Tom Bradby in his fawning for the Royals and Conservative politics.
Such a fuss has been made of this by all sides, with journalists tweeting themselves silly, that I'm not sure if anyone comes out of it well.
There is far more serious news to cover, i.e. the alleged sexual assaults on New Year's Eve. I think this is only the start of it!
But is it to be seriously suggested that troops from the Aggressor countries - UK and US - should not be held to account for alleged atrocities committed ? At the very least such allegations deserve to be investigated in detail.
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Guess who will be along shortly extolling the virtues of the far superior Turnip Teacakes.
A breaking of the covenant. Cameron needs to quickly introduce a solution.
#TwitterMoments https://t.co/xv0ayaxwX9
British Army atrocities to go unpunished! What would we have said if the Nazis had behaved like that? I suppose it is a case of 'If they committed murder in our name we must do our very best to cover up for them'.
Yes, it is to be seriously suggested. This is PB comments, after all, where liveblogging the right-wing Twittersphere comprises about fifty per cent of the content.
I'm a floating voter who has voted Conservative (mostly), plus Green and Liberal Democrat. I understand what each of those three parties stands for and I mostly know which policies of each of these parties I agree with and disagree with. Broadly speaking, I know what I'm voting for when I vote Conservative, Green or LibDem. I also believe I understand what UKIP stands for too (though I would never vote for them as there's not really very much common ground there with my own views).
Labour, however, have always been something of a mystery to me. I've never really understood what they stand for or how their thought processes work and I don't believe they've (collectively as a party) ever understood what they stand for either (at least not within my voting lifetime). That's the main bar to me ever voting Labour - I have absolutely no idea what a vote cast for Labour is a vote for and I don't think anyone in Labour is likely to be able to tell me in the near to medium future.
Surely Mr Gove and Mr Cameron should be able to put some legislation through quickly making it quite clear that outside the military's disciplinary process, individual soldiers are not fair game for ambulance-chasing scumbag lawyers in British courts.
If they want to sue the UK then they should sue the SoS for Defence, or sue the UK in International courts, with no British legal aid.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html
I for one would welcome live blogging from the left wing twittersphere. Either way it provides leaping off point for further comment.
There must be a few MPs seriously considering resigning the whip, if not crossing the floor?
For what it's worth, one of my sacred cows is that everybody is equal under the law, without fear or favour. That includes politicians, soldiers, immigrants, priests and so on and so forth.
Having worked with the forces a good deal, I still feel queasy at armchair criticism of decisions made in the heat of battle. But that's all. I think anyone who's been in combat can tell the difference between killing someone and murdering them.
Let them sue the MoD but without a penny of legal aid.
Milne judgement you are relying on ?
If they want to sue Britain let them sue Britain and have the Government's lawyers deal with it. Certainly with no legal aid.
Individual soldiers are not fair game for such vexatious and spurious litigation, that's not what they signed up for and the government needs to very quickly sort it out.
From a party political point of view, this will see Conservative members posting their membership cards back in their thousands if they don't get it sorted.
Individual soldiers are not fair game for such vexatious and spurious litigation, that's not what they signed up for and the government needs to very quickly sort it out.
From a party political point of view, this will see Conservative members posting their membership cards back in their thousands if they don't get it sorted.
I wonder what Mrs Bucket thinks? Maybe somebody should ask her...
Individual soldiers are not fair game for such vexatious and spurious litigation, that's not what they signed up for and the government needs to very quickly sort it out.
From a party political point of view, this will see Conservative members posting their membership cards back in their thousands if they don't get it sorted.
If the allegations are 'vexatious and spurious' then that will surely emerge in the course of a proper investigation. I cannot imagine the prosecuting authorities bringing anyone to trial in the absence of pretty strong evidence.
As for crossing the floor, every Labour rebel I've seen appears very clear one reason they are angry is the Tories are getting away with crappy government because of Corbyn incompetence or policies which will prevent a Labour government correcting that Tory government. Even if a few, in private, are thinking it would not be a crazy idea, the atmosphere seems hostile to such a move, and the Tories may change leader and/or tack right during and after the EU civil war to come, so even if you think Cameron is a centrish, acceptable leader, changing now would be silly.
Then you have the pressure there would be to have a by-election in the event of crossing the floor - they wouldn't have to, but the Carswell principle is hard to argue against, and if they did it most would lose.
They are vexatious purely by being aimed at individual soldiers, and trying to prosecute them personally, funded with legal aid. If they want to sue the British government for compensation, let them sue the SoS for Defence or take the UK to an international court.
Individual soldiers are not fair game for such vexatious and spurious litigation, that's not what they signed up for and the government needs to very quickly sort it out.
From a party political point of view, this will see Conservative members posting their membership cards back in their thousands if they don't get it sorted.
The logic there rather implies that the numerous crimes committed by the SS in World War 2 should have been addressed by suing the German Government - rather than bringing the individual murderers to trial. I suppose it is a view - but it is not how we proceeded post 1945.
We've already seen false allegations made against British servicemen, during the course of the Al-Sweady Inquiry. Leigh Day have been referred to the Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal as a result.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-merkel-idUSKCN0Q636920150801
The British Army is not remotely equivalent to the SS.
I'm sure the shadow defence secretary will stand up for justice and ensure Leigh Day are properly punished.
Gosh, if only they'd been proactive on New Years Eve this wouldn't have been necessary. Who'd have thunk it? https://t.co/09taK3okIi
Reuters: Police in #Cologne have fired water canon to disperse protesters from the right-wing #PEGIDA movement following NYE sex attacks
A Cloaked Figure
Any Cologne attack victims on the Pegida march being water cannoned? That would be quite a double whammy in one week
That is not the point at all! Due legal process should be the same.
Really..?
Britain has not just lost a World War, we are a functioning democracy happy to be sued by anyone in a number of international courts. Individual soldiers are the responsibility of the British government and are not fodder for scumbag lawyers like Leigh Day.
Oh, and whatever they may be accused of doing, it's really really REALLY not the same as what the SS were doing in WWII. Godwin wins the day.
I think you rather wish to believe that British soldiers are war criminals, purely by reason of having fought in Iraq, and I think that's the motivation of people like Leigh Day.
The problem is that your final sentence is very close to an assumption of guilt. In the past such statements in the public domain would have been enough to have a trial annulled.
Not at all - that is the basis on which the DPP always proceeds. 'Evidence' and 'Proof' are very different things, and the criminal standard of 'Proven beyond all reasonable doubt' is very demanding - and rightly so.
In which case you are totally wrong!
I would far prefer to see Blair on trial at the Hague - but the two do not exclude each other as these allegations presumably relate to unlawful conduct in relation to civilians and others on the battlefield - or in the post conflict period.
Indeed - but you're not the DPP and the court of public opinion sees things differently especially when idiots start spouting about ' strong evidence'. Mud sticks - as of course you knew when you wrote it.
Britain has not just lost a World War, we are a functioning democracy happy to be sued by anyone in a number of international courts. Individual soldiers are the responsibility of the British government and are not fodder for scumbag lawyers like Leigh Day.
Oh, and whatever they may be accused of doing, it's really really REALLY not the same as what the SS were doing in WWII. Godwin wins the day.
However much you may wish to hide behind Godwin , it is a fact that many individual German - and Japanese - soldiers -both SS and non-SS were charged , tried, convicted - and sometimes executed for specific crimes they were judged to have committed.
"Boris Johnson has said the UK has a "great, great future" outside the EU if it doesn't secure the reform it needs."
That sounds very much to me as if Boris is edging towards a Leave position
If they want to sue the UK then they should sue the SoS for Defence, or sue the UK in International courts, with no British legal aid.
Is it correct that certain lawyers have retained Iraqi civilians to actually solicit complaints from former Iraqi combatants about British soldiers?
Watch as American states change over 200 years [timelapse map] https://t.co/GKgr7rOIQR https://t.co/0jWfSq16qI
And when the UK loses a war and our government is overthrown, then maybe our soldiers will be fair game for war crimes trials from our victors. Until that day, no chance.
https://twitter.com/oliver_lane/status/685820008723791872