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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » On the eve of New Hampshire the Hillary campaign takes its

SystemSystem Posts: 11,020
edited February 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » On the eve of New Hampshire the Hillary campaign takes its biggest gamble: bringing in Bill to attack Bernie

So we are almost there in what has in past White House races been the contest that has proved to be the most crucial – the first full primary in the New England State of New Hampshire.

Read the full story here


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Comments

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    I'm sure bringing in her husband the ex-president will reinforce her outsider credentials.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Second, like Hillary!
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Two New Polls in New York and Michigan showing Trump clearly ahead in the primaries, one showing Cruz ahead in Arkansas.

    Not in my sheet yet.

    NY
    Jeb Bush (R) 7%
    Chris Christie (R) 11%
    Ted Cruz (R) 16%
    John Kasich (R) 4%
    Marco Rubio (R) 16%
    Donald Trump (R) 34%
    Undecided 12%

    Michigan Republican Presidential Primary IMP/Target Insyght Trump 35, Cruz 21, Rubio 21, Kasich 6, Carson 5, Bush 3, Christie 3, Fiorina 3

    Arkansas Republican Presidential Primary Talk Business/Hendrix College Cruz 27, Trump 23, Rubio 23, Carson 11, Kasich 4, Fiorina 4, Bush 1, Christie 1
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited February 2016
    2 can play that game:

    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/feb/07/hillary-clinton-defends-madeleine-albright-women-female-voters

    "The feminist writer Gloria Steinem apologized on Sunday for remarks about young women who support Bernie Sanders, not long after Hillary Clinton defended Madeleine Albright over her comment that there is “a special place in hell” for women who do not support Clinton."

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/02/08/why-the-feminist-appeal-isnt-working-for-clinton-in-new-hampshire/

    Who said Yvette Cooper and Harriet Harman?
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    Bill Clinton looks and sounds really old - I barely recognized him. I know Bernie Sanders is older, but bringing out Bill just emphasizes how old Hillary is too.
  • Options

    I'm sure bringing in her husband the ex-president will reinforce her outsider credentials.

    She is an ex First Lady and Secretary of State.
    Is that a secret?
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,280
    I've got a great little book at home called "The Natural" by Joe Klein. It is about Bill Clinton and expresses clear admiration for his skills as a politician and his ability to focus and provide effective government during the impeachment nonsense. It is rather more ambivalent about his morals or trustworthiness.

    I bought it in the US because of a story that was on the dustcover. It described Bill giving a speech with his New Democrat credentials in NH shortly before the Primary. The audience were union and they were not particularly liking what they heard.

    After the meeting he comes up to Joe but doesn't speak to him but to his little girl. "Amy," he said, "you haven't seen much of your dad recently and that is because he has been with me. But I want to tell you something. He talks about you all the time."

    A genius of a politician. But gosh, doesn't he look old these days?
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    tlg86 said:

    Bill Clinton looks and sounds really old - I barely recognized him. I know Bernie Sanders is older, but bringing out Bill just emphasizes how old Hillary is too.

    No one under the age of 26 knows who Bill Clinton is.
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    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,779
    tlg86 said:

    Bill Clinton looks and sounds really old - I barely recognized him. I know Bernie Sanders is older, but bringing out Bill just emphasizes how old Hillary is too.

    Full marks
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926
    Bernie reached 65 at 50 and hasn't aged since.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,995
    edited February 2016
    Speedy said:

    tlg86 said:

    Bill Clinton looks and sounds really old - I barely recognized him. I know Bernie Sanders is older, but bringing out Bill just emphasizes how old Hillary is too.

    No one under the age of 26 knows who Bill Clinton is.
    Oh for goodness sake a 25 year old would have been 10 when Bill Clinton ended his presidency, most 10 year olds at least know who the president is
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    There's a strange poll out in North Carolina seemingly showing Trump crashing...

    NC - Highpoint University
    Jeb Bush (R) 5%
    Ben Carson (R) 12%
    Chris Christie (R) 3%
    Ted Cruz (R) 18%
    Carly Fiorina (R) 4%
    Jim Gilmore (R) 1%
    Mike Huckabee (R) 3%
    John Kasich (R) 4%
    Rand Paul (R) 2%
    Marco Rubio (R) 20%
    Rick Santorum (R) 1%
    Donald Trump (R) 13%
    Undecided 15%
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Yvette Cooper, Harriet Harman, Hillary Clinton:

    "Vote for me because I'm a woman"

    Looking past their gender though, do they deserve it?
    Do they have the merits and the policies to be elected to the most senior positions?
    Being a woman or a minority is not enough, you have to deserve it like any other person.
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    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    I'm sure bringing in her husband the ex-president will reinforce her outsider credentials.

    And her feminist credentials too ...
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited February 2016
    RodCrosby said:

    There's a strange poll out in North Carolina seemingly showing Trump crashing...

    NC - Highpoint University
    Jeb Bush (R) 5%
    Ben Carson (R) 12%
    Chris Christie (R) 3%
    Ted Cruz (R) 18%
    Carly Fiorina (R) 4%
    Jim Gilmore (R) 1%
    Mike Huckabee (R) 3%
    John Kasich (R) 4%
    Rand Paul (R) 2%
    Marco Rubio (R) 20%
    Rick Santorum (R) 1%
    Donald Trump (R) 13%
    Undecided 15%

    And a Florida poll showing Trump beating Rubio by 7:

    http://saintpetersblog.com/archives/252092

    However all those are hypotheticals since a. they were before the last debate, b. before N.H. .
    Edit.
    You got the wrong numbers there Rod for N.Carolina, those are second choices, the real numbers are:

    26 Trump
    22 Cruz
    20 Rubio
    9 Carson
    3 Bush
    2 Huckabee/Kasich/Paul/Christie
    1 Fiorina

    http://www.highpoint.edu/src/files/2016/02/43memoA.pdf
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    It sounds like it's going well for Emily Thornberry at the PLP meeting tonight:

    @georgeeaton · 4m4 minutes ago
    Emily Thornberry tells PLP meeting: "There's no point trying to shout me down".

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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,995
    Speedy said:

    RodCrosby said:

    There's a strange poll out in North Carolina seemingly showing Trump crashing...

    NC - Highpoint University
    Jeb Bush (R) 5%
    Ben Carson (R) 12%
    Chris Christie (R) 3%
    Ted Cruz (R) 18%
    Carly Fiorina (R) 4%
    Jim Gilmore (R) 1%
    Mike Huckabee (R) 3%
    John Kasich (R) 4%
    Rand Paul (R) 2%
    Marco Rubio (R) 20%
    Rick Santorum (R) 1%
    Donald Trump (R) 13%
    Undecided 15%

    And a Florida poll showing Trump beating Rubio by 7:

    http://saintpetersblog.com/archives/252092

    However all those are hypotheticals since a. they were before the last debate, b. before N.H. .
    Edit.
    You got the wrong numbers there Rod for N.Carolina, those are second choices, the real numbers are:

    26 Trump
    22 Cruz
    20 Rubio
    9 Carson
    3 Bush
    2 Huckabee/Kasich/Paul/Christie
    1 Fiorina

    http://www.highpoint.edu/src/files/2016/02/43memoA.pdf
    Hillary leads Sanders in Florida in that poll and in the general election beats Trump in the state but loses to Rubio and Bush
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Speedy said:

    RodCrosby said:

    There's a strange poll out in North Carolina seemingly showing Trump crashing...

    NC - Highpoint University
    Jeb Bush (R) 5%
    Ben Carson (R) 12%
    Chris Christie (R) 3%
    Ted Cruz (R) 18%
    Carly Fiorina (R) 4%
    Jim Gilmore (R) 1%
    Mike Huckabee (R) 3%
    John Kasich (R) 4%
    Rand Paul (R) 2%
    Marco Rubio (R) 20%
    Rick Santorum (R) 1%
    Donald Trump (R) 13%
    Undecided 15%

    And a Florida poll showing Trump beating Rubio by 7:

    http://saintpetersblog.com/archives/252092

    However all those are hypotheticals since a. they were before the last debate, b. before N.H. .
    Edit.
    You got the wrong numbers there Rod for N.Carolina, those are second choices, the real numbers are:

    26 Trump
    22 Cruz
    20 Rubio
    9 Carson
    3 Bush
    2 Huckabee/Kasich/Paul/Christie
    1 Fiorina

    http://www.highpoint.edu/src/files/2016/02/43memoA.pdf
    Thanks. I thought it must be wrong! My source, Huff Polling, has it wrong too. Someone will tell them, no doubt...
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    Speedy said:

    RodCrosby said:

    There's a strange poll out in North Carolina seemingly showing Trump crashing...

    NC - Highpoint University
    Jeb Bush (R) 5%
    Ben Carson (R) 12%
    Chris Christie (R) 3%
    Ted Cruz (R) 18%
    Carly Fiorina (R) 4%
    Jim Gilmore (R) 1%
    Mike Huckabee (R) 3%
    John Kasich (R) 4%
    Rand Paul (R) 2%
    Marco Rubio (R) 20%
    Rick Santorum (R) 1%
    Donald Trump (R) 13%
    Undecided 15%

    And a Florida poll showing Trump beating Rubio by 7:

    http://saintpetersblog.com/archives/252092

    However all those are hypotheticals since a. they were before the last debate, b. before N.H. .
    Edit.
    You got the wrong numbers there Rod for N.Carolina, those are second choices, the real numbers are:

    26 Trump
    22 Cruz
    20 Rubio
    9 Carson
    3 Bush
    2 Huckabee/Kasich/Paul/Christie
    1 Fiorina

    http://www.highpoint.edu/src/files/2016/02/43memoA.pdf
    But when oh when will we get a Nevada poll?
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    FPT - can we put DavidL and Cyclefree at the helm of Vote Leave please?
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    Those polls don't look too bad for Cruz.

    Value?
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    Those polls don't look too bad for Cruz.

    Value?

    I would say the big factor isn't his own performance in NH, it's Rubio's. Therefore I'm dodging the opportunity to look past NH to SC at present, other than a small amount I got on Trump at 2.1.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,280
    According to this Washington Post story she is even behind Bernie with women: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2016/02/07/8c73740c-c50a-11e5-a4aa-f25866ba0dc6_story.html

    She was a really strong candidate in 2008. Since then she has been Secretary of State as well as completing her term second term as a senator. But she doesn't have the gloss she had then.
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    SeanT said:
    My sister and teenage nephew live in Crewe.

    Once again that appears, on the face of it, the school and police authorities colluding to play down/cover up a major incident, exacerbating tensions.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    C4 splashing the dirt on Tory election expenses.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926

    Those polls don't look too bad for Cruz.

    Value?

    Cruz POTUS is good value at the 25.0 I got or so this morning.
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    RodCrosby said:

    Two New Polls in New York and Michigan showing Trump clearly ahead in the primaries, one showing Cruz ahead in Arkansas.

    Not in my sheet yet.

    NY
    Jeb Bush (R) 7%
    Chris Christie (R) 11%
    Ted Cruz (R) 16%
    John Kasich (R) 4%
    Marco Rubio (R) 16%
    Donald Trump (R) 34%
    Undecided 12%

    Michigan Republican Presidential Primary IMP/Target Insyght Trump 35, Cruz 21, Rubio 21, Kasich 6, Carson 5, Bush 3, Christie 3, Fiorina 3

    Arkansas Republican Presidential Primary Talk Business/Hendrix College Cruz 27, Trump 23, Rubio 23, Carson 11, Kasich 4, Fiorina 4, Bush 1, Christie 1

    A lot of delegates in NY and Michigan up for grabs. Cruz won't win those ever but Trump needs his voters to be safe.

    Anyway all about NH and SC now. If Rubio or Cruz poll outside the top three that will be problematic for them, Kasich looks good for a top three finish. SC should decide between Cruz and Trump, Trump needs to KO him there.
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    Those polls don't look too bad for Cruz.

    Value?

    Only if Cruz wins S.Carolina.

    Right now if Trump wins N.H., Trump stays until at least Nevada regardless of S.Carolina.
    But Cruz and Rubio need a win in S.Carolina or it's bust for them, Rubio especially.

    If Cruz comes out only to have won Iowa (a little tainted victory there), then at best he can match Santorum by sweeping the bible belt (Nebraska ect) plus Texas.
    If Rubio comes out having won none of the early states he's finished.

    Essentially the state of the game is thus:.

    For those who want to get rid of Rubio (Bush, Cruz, Christie, Carson, Trump, Kasich, aka everybody).
    Rubio has to come bellow you in N.H ( 3rd or lower the better) and lose S.Carolina.

    For those who want to get rid of Trump (everybody).
    Trump has to lose N.H, or at least S.C. and Nevada.

    For those who want to get rid of Cruz (everybody).
    Cruz has to lose S.Carolina.
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    Bill Clinton seems to be starting to morph into Jimmy Carter.
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    EPGEPG Posts: 6,006
    Cruz is following exactly the pattern of candidates who win conservative states and lose normal ones. Furthermore, even in a 3-way split, the other 2 factions may prefer each other. Not value I think.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,927
    SeanT said:
    Cameron on News at Ten will say "This is an appalling story and if we vote to leave the European Union I fear it will become commonplace"
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,995
    SeanT said:
    That depends, Cameron has said that a Leave vote would simply lead to France ending border controls to the UK on the French side and let all its Calais migrants go through the tunnel
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    Bill Clinton seems to be starting to morph into Jimmy Carter.

    To be fair to Bill Clinton, he managed to have adultery in rather more than just his heart.
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    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,971
    Any kippers watching C4 news?
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    SeanT said:
    My sister and teenage nephew live in Crewe.

    Once again that appears, on the face of it, the school and police authorities colluding to play down/cover up a major incident, exacerbating tensions.
    This story doesn't surprise me at all. I went into an Asian shop the other day and was completely ignored, even though I was the only person in.

    All the old industrial working-class northern towns are just full of every nationality under the sun. Something has to give. You can feel the tension sometimes. Older people can't believe the change in their communities and it's happened in such a short space of time.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,836

    FPT - can we put DavidL and Cyclefree at the helm of Vote Leave please?

    Sean T can be good, too.

    "Vote Remain, or Kent gets it" is a nice bit of parody.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    Any kippers watching C4 news?

    Not a kipper, but it does rather raise some searching questions.
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    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    LondonBob said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Two New Polls in New York and Michigan showing Trump clearly ahead in the primaries, one showing Cruz ahead in Arkansas.

    Not in my sheet yet.

    NY
    Jeb Bush (R) 7%
    Chris Christie (R) 11%
    Ted Cruz (R) 16%
    John Kasich (R) 4%
    Marco Rubio (R) 16%
    Donald Trump (R) 34%
    Undecided 12%

    Michigan Republican Presidential Primary IMP/Target Insyght Trump 35, Cruz 21, Rubio 21, Kasich 6, Carson 5, Bush 3, Christie 3, Fiorina 3

    Arkansas Republican Presidential Primary Talk Business/Hendrix College Cruz 27, Trump 23, Rubio 23, Carson 11, Kasich 4, Fiorina 4, Bush 1, Christie 1

    A lot of delegates in NY and Michigan up for grabs. Cruz won't win those ever but Trump needs his voters to be safe.

    Anyway all about NH and SC now. If Rubio or Cruz poll outside the top three that will be problematic for them, Kasich looks good for a top three finish. SC should decide between Cruz and Trump, Trump needs to KO him there.
    I think Trump will take SC, regardless of the NH outcome, unless NH shows that only 50% or less of 'Likely Voters' for Trump turn out in primaries.
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    Any kippers watching C4 news?

    Not a kipper, but it does rather raise some searching questions.
    What's the gist?
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited February 2016

    SeanT said:
    My sister and teenage nephew live in Crewe.

    Once again that appears, on the face of it, the school and police authorities colluding to play down/cover up a major incident, exacerbating tensions.
    This story doesn't surprise me at all. I went into an Asian shop the other day and was completely ignored, even though I was the only person in.

    All the old industrial working-class northern towns are just full of every nationality under the sun. Something has to give. You can feel the tension sometimes. Older people can't believe the change in their communities and it's happened in such a short space of time.
    Breitbart does seem rather more sensationalist than the Crewe Chronicle:

    http://www.crewechronicle.co.uk/news/crewe-south-cheshire-news/police-called-fight-school-10839951

    "Jason Fraser, principal of Sir William Stanier Community School, said: “During the lunchtime break yesterday, an altercation involving six pupils took place in the school playground. Staff responded quickly and effectively to manage the situation.

    “Our school has a zero-tolerance approach to any behaviour that does not meet the high standards we expect, and we acted swiftly to exclude those involved, pending a full investigation.

    “The safety and wellbeing of all students and staff, in and out of school, is always our utmost priority. As such, the decision was taken to involve the police as a precautionary measure. School then continued as normal for the rest of the afternoon and is open as usual today"


    I wonder who has better reporters on the ground? And who relies on twittersphere hysteria...
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    Any kippers watching C4 news?

    Not a kipper, but it does rather raise some searching questions.
    Hodges opens a new front on this one:

    Dan Hodges ‏@DPJHodges 17m17 minutes ago
    Channel 4 News can't be serious. None of the major parties has ever stuck to by-election spending limits.
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    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    edited February 2016
    Sean_F said:

    FPT - can we put DavidL and Cyclefree at the helm of Vote Leave please?

    Sean T can be good, too.

    "Vote Remain, or Kent gets it" is a nice bit of parody.
    Reminds me somehow of Blazing Saddles - "Next man makes a move, the n****r gets it!"
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_JOGmXpe5I
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    Will the results be announced county by county like in Iowa or a single statewide announcement? Any idea when results will start to come in?
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    Any kippers watching C4 news?

    Not a kipper, but it does rather raise some searching questions.
    What's the gist?
    Basically conservatives substabtially overspent in by-elections esp when running against UKIP eg Rochester and have broken the law.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,280
    We were talking about the Big Short on the last thread. Look at the chart for the cost of insuring investment grade bank debt in this story: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/markets/12146915/Fears-over-new-financial-crisis-come-back-to-haunt-global-markets-in-day-of-trading-turmoil.html

    Going up like a rocket and already the highest since 2013. There may be troubles ahead....
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    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited February 2016
    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:
    That depends, Cameron has said that a Leave vote would simply lead to France ending border controls to the UK on the French side and let all its Calais migrants go through the tunnel
    Then the French based Eurotunnel will be fined into extinction. They'll be made liable in the same way that airlines get walloped for allowing illegals to enter the UK on flights.
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,760

    ...There are two posters on here on particular who continually say they are undecided and then spend every moment they are on here attacking LEAVE and defending Cameron and REMAIN...

    I sincerely hope you aren't referring to me. I have not hidden that I side with REMAIN and I would hope that was obvious.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,927

    SeanT said:
    My sister and teenage nephew live in Crewe.

    Once again that appears, on the face of it, the school and police authorities colluding to play down/cover up a major incident, exacerbating tensions.
    This story doesn't surprise me at all. I went into an Asian shop the other day and was completely ignored, even though I was the only person in.

    All the old industrial working-class northern towns are just full of every nationality under the sun. Something has to give. You can feel the tension sometimes. Older people can't believe the change in their communities and it's happened in such a short space of time.
    Breitbart does seem rather more sensationalist than the Crewe Chronicle:

    http://www.crewechronicle.co.uk/news/crewe-south-cheshire-news/police-called-fight-school-10839951

    "Jason Fraser, principal of Sir William Stanier Community School, said: “During the lunchtime break yesterday, an altercation involving six pupils took place in the school playground. Staff responded quickly and effectively to manage the situation.

    “Our school has a zero-tolerance approach to any behaviour that does not meet the high standards we expect, and we acted swiftly to exclude those involved, pending a full investigation.

    “The safety and wellbeing of all students and staff, in and out of school, is always our utmost priority. As such, the decision was taken to involve the police as a precautionary measure. School then continued as normal for the rest of the afternoon and is open as usual today"


    I wonder who has better reporters on the ground? And who relies on twittersphere hysteria...
    Well seeing as the fellow you quote is the man the parents have started a petition to get sacked for covering it up, I am not surprised he is playing it down!
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    Basically conservatives substabtially overspent in by-elections esp when running against UKIP eg Rochester and have broken the law.

    In by-elections it's rather easy to circumvent the spending limits, entirely legitimately. I can well believe that they used various wheezes but stayed within the law.
  • Options
    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474

    Basically conservatives substabtially overspent in by-elections esp when running against UKIP eg Rochester and have broken the law.

    In by-elections it's rather easy to circumvent the spending limits, entirely legitimately. I can well believe that they used various wheezes but stayed within the law.
    Have you ever criticised the Tories for anything?
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    MTimT said:

    LondonBob said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Two New Polls in New York and Michigan showing Trump clearly ahead in the primaries, one showing Cruz ahead in Arkansas.

    Not in my sheet yet.

    NY
    Jeb Bush (R) 7%
    Chris Christie (R) 11%
    Ted Cruz (R) 16%
    John Kasich (R) 4%
    Marco Rubio (R) 16%
    Donald Trump (R) 34%
    Undecided 12%

    Michigan Republican Presidential Primary IMP/Target Insyght Trump 35, Cruz 21, Rubio 21, Kasich 6, Carson 5, Bush 3, Christie 3, Fiorina 3

    Arkansas Republican Presidential Primary Talk Business/Hendrix College Cruz 27, Trump 23, Rubio 23, Carson 11, Kasich 4, Fiorina 4, Bush 1, Christie 1

    A lot of delegates in NY and Michigan up for grabs. Cruz won't win those ever but Trump needs his voters to be safe.

    Anyway all about NH and SC now. If Rubio or Cruz poll outside the top three that will be problematic for them, Kasich looks good for a top three finish. SC should decide between Cruz and Trump, Trump needs to KO him there.
    I think Trump will take SC, regardless of the NH outcome, unless NH shows that only 50% or less of 'Likely Voters' for Trump turn out in primaries.
    To be honest I agree with you, I don't actually think not winning NH would be as catastrophic as conventional wisdom has it for Trump. Supposedly Trump has the best ground game there and it will be between Cruz and Trump, and I don't see Cruz getting any momentum out of NH.

    https://twitter.com/RogerJStoneJr/status/696137987906793473
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    watford30 said:

    Basically conservatives substabtially overspent in by-elections esp when running against UKIP eg Rochester and have broken the law.

    In by-elections it's rather easy to circumvent the spending limits, entirely legitimately. I can well believe that they used various wheezes but stayed within the law.
    Have you ever criticised the Tories for anything?
    Yes.

    In this case, I was neither criticising nor praising, merely explaining my understanding of how by-election spending limits are easy to get round.
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    Sean_F said:

    FPT - can we put DavidL and Cyclefree at the helm of Vote Leave please?

    Sean T can be good, too.

    "Vote Remain, or Kent gets it" is a nice bit of parody.
    Yes, but SeanT is a bit hysterical/neurotic (although very funny) and could end up as either Remain or Leave.

    The swing centre/centre-right middle-class electorate will be convinced by non-migrant arguments IMHO.

    That means Robert Smithson, DavidL and Cyclefree.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    Basically conservatives substabtially overspent in by-elections esp when running against UKIP eg Rochester and have broken the law.

    In by-elections it's rather easy to circumvent the spending limits, entirely legitimately. I can well believe that they used various wheezes but stayed within the law.
    these were rather large wheezes
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,994
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:
    My sister and teenage nephew live in Crewe.

    Once again that appears, on the face of it, the school and police authorities colluding to play down/cover up a major incident, exacerbating tensions.
    This story doesn't surprise me at all. I went into an Asian shop the other day and was completely ignored, even though I was the only person in.

    All the old industrial working-class northern towns are just full of every nationality under the sun. Something has to give. You can feel the tension sometimes. Older people can't believe the change in their communities and it's happened in such a short space of time.
    Breitbart does seem rather more sensationalist than the Crewe Chronicle:

    http://www.crewechronicle.co.uk/news/crewe-south-cheshire-news/police-called-fight-school-10839951

    I wonder who has better reporters on the ground? And who relies on twittersphere hysteria...
    Read the comments to this petition. It seems to be true. Just incredible.

    https://www.change.org/p/board-of-governors-for-sir-william-stanier-mr-fraser-should-resign-as-head-of-sir-william-stanier/c
    I'm slightly bemused by: "arrested for possession of a plank of wood". I wonder what the exact law used was: possession of an offensive weapon? going equipped?
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited February 2016
    ‘Hillary’s campaign has deployed its final card– her husband the former President.’

    Brave move to drag a sleaze bag into a her campaign who was never far from a real estate scandal - or a good cigar. :lol:
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    watford30 said:

    Basically conservatives substabtially overspent in by-elections esp when running against UKIP eg Rochester and have broken the law.

    In by-elections it's rather easy to circumvent the spending limits, entirely legitimately. I can well believe that they used various wheezes but stayed within the law.
    Have you ever criticised the Tories for anything?
    I mean, step one, convince anyone to care.

    Apparently the Tories were desperate to stop Farage, Farage was desperate to win. Which you know is obviously true.

    Technically a local battle, but obviously the importance of winning was for the nationl narrative - this wasn't any old contest. Effectively they were both fighting a national campaign on the streets of Kent - not surprising they spent like it.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,927
    Sean_F said:

    FPT - can we put DavidL and Cyclefree at the helm of Vote Leave please?

    Sean T can be good, too.

    "Vote Remain, or Kent gets it" is a nice bit of parody.

    "Nice county you got there, be a shame if anything happened to it" was a good one too

  • Options

    SeanT said:
    My sister and teenage nephew live in Crewe.

    Once again that appears, on the face of it, the school and police authorities colluding to play down/cover up a major incident, exacerbating tensions.
    This story doesn't surprise me at all. I went into an Asian shop the other day and was completely ignored, even though I was the only person in.

    All the old industrial working-class northern towns are just full of every nationality under the sun. Something has to give. You can feel the tension sometimes. Older people can't believe the change in their communities and it's happened in such a short space of time.
    Breitbart does seem rather more sensationalist than the Crewe Chronicle:

    http://www.crewechronicle.co.uk/news/crewe-south-cheshire-news/police-called-fight-school-10839951

    "Jason Fraser, principal of Sir William Stanier Community School, said: “During the lunchtime break yesterday, an altercation involving six pupils took place in the school playground. Staff responded quickly and effectively to manage the situation.

    “Our school has a zero-tolerance approach to any behaviour that does not meet the high standards we expect, and we acted swiftly to exclude those involved, pending a full investigation.

    “The safety and wellbeing of all students and staff, in and out of school, is always our utmost priority. As such, the decision was taken to involve the police as a precautionary measure. School then continued as normal for the rest of the afternoon and is open as usual today"


    I wonder who has better reporters on the ground? And who relies on twittersphere hysteria...
    It depends on whether or not you believe those in authority to tell the unvarnished truth.

    The substance of that article seems to back the Breibart article, with both the headmaster and the police playing it down.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited February 2016

    these were rather large wheezes

    Well, I haven't seen the program, but the usual wheeze is to ensure that the spending technically takes place in a different constituency. Or so I understand, I don't have first-hand experience!
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205
    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:
    That depends, Cameron has said that a Leave vote would simply lead to France ending border controls to the UK on the French side and let all its Calais migrants go through the tunnel
    I'd be interested to know why France signed the Le Touquet treaty (referenced in an earlier thread). There must have been something in it for them. I don't buy the idea that it was done purely out of altruism. What do the French get out of it?

  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926
    LondonBob said:

    MTimT said:

    LondonBob said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Two New Polls in New York and Michigan showing Trump clearly ahead in the primaries, one showing Cruz ahead in Arkansas.

    Not in my sheet yet.

    NY
    Jeb Bush (R) 7%
    Chris Christie (R) 11%
    Ted Cruz (R) 16%
    John Kasich (R) 4%
    Marco Rubio (R) 16%
    Donald Trump (R) 34%
    Undecided 12%

    Michigan Republican Presidential Primary IMP/Target Insyght Trump 35, Cruz 21, Rubio 21, Kasich 6, Carson 5, Bush 3, Christie 3, Fiorina 3

    Arkansas Republican Presidential Primary Talk Business/Hendrix College Cruz 27, Trump 23, Rubio 23, Carson 11, Kasich 4, Fiorina 4, Bush 1, Christie 1

    A lot of delegates in NY and Michigan up for grabs. Cruz won't win those ever but Trump needs his voters to be safe.

    Anyway all about NH and SC now. If Rubio or Cruz poll outside the top three that will be problematic for them, Kasich looks good for a top three finish. SC should decide between Cruz and Trump, Trump needs to KO him there.
    I think Trump will take SC, regardless of the NH outcome, unless NH shows that only 50% or less of 'Likely Voters' for Trump turn out in primaries.
    To be honest I agree with you, I don't actually think not winning NH would be as catastrophic as conventional wisdom has it for Trump. Supposedly Trump has the best ground game there and it will be between Cruz and Trump, and I don't see Cruz getting any momentum out of NH.

    https://twitter.com/RogerJStoneJr/status/696137987906793473
    If Cruz wins New Hampshire, he is a lock for the nomination given he's the most conservative candidate in one of the most moderate states.

    I'd be seriously amazed if it happened though.
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    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:
    That depends, Cameron has said that a Leave vote would simply lead to France ending border controls to the UK on the French side and let all its Calais migrants go through the tunnel
    And the French have said that's bollocks.

    This is the throw enough shit around and some of it will stick approach.
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    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited February 2016

    watford30 said:

    Basically conservatives substabtially overspent in by-elections esp when running against UKIP eg Rochester and have broken the law.

    In by-elections it's rather easy to circumvent the spending limits, entirely legitimately. I can well believe that they used various wheezes but stayed within the law.
    Have you ever criticised the Tories for anything?
    Yes.

    In this case, I was neither criticising nor praising, merely explaining my understanding of how by-election spending limits are easy to get round.
    Perhaps a better question would have been 'Is there any act carried out by the Tories that you wouldn't defend in some way?'
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    Speedy said:

    Those polls don't look too bad for Cruz.

    Value?

    Only if Cruz wins S.Carolina.

    Right now if Trump wins N.H., Trump stays until at least Nevada regardless of S.Carolina.
    But Cruz and Rubio need a win in S.Carolina or it's bust for them, Rubio especially.

    If Cruz comes out only to have won Iowa (a little tainted victory there), then at best he can match Santorum by sweeping the bible belt (Nebraska ect) plus Texas.
    If Rubio comes out having won none of the early states he's finished.

    Essentially the state of the game is thus:.

    For those who want to get rid of Rubio (Bush, Cruz, Christie, Carson, Trump, Kasich, aka everybody).
    Rubio has to come bellow you in N.H ( 3rd or lower the better) and lose S.Carolina.

    For those who want to get rid of Trump (everybody).
    Trump has to lose N.H, or at least S.C. and Nevada.

    For those who want to get rid of Cruz (everybody).
    Cruz has to lose S.Carolina.
    Thanks. What are his chances in S.Carolina?
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    LondonBob said:

    MTimT said:

    LondonBob said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Two New Polls in New York and Michigan showing Trump clearly ahead in the primaries, one showing Cruz ahead in Arkansas.

    Not in my sheet yet.

    NY
    Jeb Bush (R) 7%
    Chris Christie (R) 11%
    Ted Cruz (R) 16%
    John Kasich (R) 4%
    Marco Rubio (R) 16%
    Donald Trump (R) 34%
    Undecided 12%

    Michigan Republican Presidential Primary IMP/Target Insyght Trump 35, Cruz 21, Rubio 21, Kasich 6, Carson 5, Bush 3, Christie 3, Fiorina 3

    Arkansas Republican Presidential Primary Talk Business/Hendrix College Cruz 27, Trump 23, Rubio 23, Carson 11, Kasich 4, Fiorina 4, Bush 1, Christie 1

    A lot of delegates in NY and Michigan up for grabs. Cruz won't win those ever but Trump needs his voters to be safe.

    Anyway all about NH and SC now. If Rubio or Cruz poll outside the top three that will be problematic for them, Kasich looks good for a top three finish. SC should decide between Cruz and Trump, Trump needs to KO him there.
    I think Trump will take SC, regardless of the NH outcome, unless NH shows that only 50% or less of 'Likely Voters' for Trump turn out in primaries.
    To be honest I agree with you, I don't actually think not winning NH would be as catastrophic as conventional wisdom has it for Trump. Supposedly Trump has the best ground game there and it will be between Cruz and Trump, and I don't see Cruz getting any momentum out of NH.

    https://twitter.com/RogerJStoneJr/status/696137987906793473
    If Cruz wins New Hampshire, he is a lock for the nomination given he's the most conservative candidate in one of the most moderate states.

    I'd be seriously amazed if it happened though.
    i.e. not because of the win itself, but what it would tell us about the mind of the electorate - I think that's right.
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    Those polls don't look too bad for Cruz.

    Value?

    Cruz POTUS is good value at the 25.0 I got or so this morning.
    On the basis he's bound to come in if he wins the nomination (and weirdly is pretty much the same price as the undead Jeb Bush) I agree.
  • Options

    Pulpstar said:

    Those polls don't look too bad for Cruz.

    Value?

    Cruz POTUS is good value at the 25.0 I got or so this morning.
    On the basis he's bound to come in if he wins the nomination (and weirdly is pretty much the same price as the undead Jeb Bush) I agree.
    Anyone's odds look good compared to Bush - for whom even a second place would not be enough...
  • Options
    watford30 said:

    Perhaps a better question would have been 'Is there any act carried out by the Tories that you wouldn't defend in some way?'

    Of course, I've criticised them many times.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926
    edited February 2016

    Pulpstar said:

    Those polls don't look too bad for Cruz.

    Value?

    Cruz POTUS is good value at the 25.0 I got or so this morning.
    On the basis he's bound to come in if he wins the nomination (and weirdly is pretty much the same price as the undead Jeb Bush) I agree.
    Jeb Bush' weird price is making the value of my GOP book pretty much zero right now. He'll probably go odds on if he gets 15% in New Hampshire. And I've put another £20 up at 8.8 to lay...
  • Options
    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,971
    edited February 2016

    these were rather large wheezes

    Well, I haven't seen the program, but the usual wheeze is to ensure that the spending technically takes place in a different constituency. Or so I understand, I don't have first-hand experience!
    It appears that all the hotel reservations of party workers were booked using the home address of one of the party workers. Thus none of the hotel bills appeared in the declarations of expenditure.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    http://www.channel4.com/news/conservatives-appear-to-have-overspent-on-three-by-elections

    "Channel 4 News has obtained evidence of tens of thousands of pounds of spending by the Conservatives during key by-election campaigns which appear not to have been declared.

    Hundreds of pages of receipts obtained by this programme seem to show undeclared expenditure by the party in three crucial parliamentary by-election campaigns in 2014.

    The documents appear to reveal a pattern of undisclosed spending and link directly to Conservative HQ and senior figures within the party."

    "If all the receipts had been declared, the party would appear to have flouted spending limits in all three by-elections in Newark, Clacton, and Rochester & Strood during 2014. "

    "Some rooms were booked under the name "Mr Conservatives"."
  • Options
    What time are NH "exit poll"s/results?
  • Options

    Any kippers watching C4 news?

    Not a kipper, but it does rather raise some searching questions.
    Hodges opens a new front on this one:

    Dan Hodges ‏@DPJHodges 17m17 minutes ago
    Channel 4 News can't be serious. None of the major parties has ever stuck to by-election spending limits.
    Whatever the rights and wrongs in these cases I doubt it will come to anything. As the Fiona Jones case showed, it is damn difficult to get a charge like this to stick. She got off at appeal on the grounds that the election expenses system was too difficult to understand.
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,006

    SeanT said:
    My sister and teenage nephew live in Crewe.

    Once again that appears, on the face of it, the school and police authorities colluding to play down/cover up a major incident, exacerbating tensions.
    This story doesn't surprise me at all. I went into an Asian shop the other day and was completely ignored, even though I was the only person in.

    All the old industrial working-class northern towns are just full of every nationality under the sun. Something has to give. You can feel the tension sometimes. Older people can't believe the change in their communities and it's happened in such a short space of time.
    Breitbart does seem rather more sensationalist than the Crewe Chronicle:

    http://www.crewechronicle.co.uk/news/crewe-south-cheshire-news/police-called-fight-school-10839951

    "Jason Fraser, principal of Sir William Stanier Community School, said: “During the lunchtime break yesterday, an altercation involving six pupils took place in the school playground. Staff responded quickly and effectively to manage the situation.

    “Our school has a zero-tolerance approach to any behaviour that does not meet the high standards we expect, and we acted swiftly to exclude those involved, pending a full investigation.

    “The safety and wellbeing of all students and staff, in and out of school, is always our utmost priority. As such, the decision was taken to involve the police as a precautionary measure. School then continued as normal for the rest of the afternoon and is open as usual today"


    I wonder who has better reporters on the ground? And who relies on twittersphere hysteria...
    Kids fight in playground
    Apparently equals white man's race death at the hands of the Jezlamists
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,994
    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:
    That depends, Cameron has said that a Leave vote would simply lead to France ending border controls to the UK on the French side and let all its Calais migrants go through the tunnel
    I'd be interested to know why France signed the Le Touquet treaty (referenced in an earlier thread). There must have been something in it for them. I don't buy the idea that it was done purely out of altruism. What do the French get out of it?

    It appears that it was one of a series of agreements signed at the same time:
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2003/feb/04/foreignpolicy.uk

    Perhaps the French got something they wanted in one of the other areas, and the problem was not as bad or immediate back then.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited February 2016

    What time are NH "exit poll"s/results?

    At 3 AM UTC or 8 PM ET.
    Most precincts will close one hour earlier, so by the time the exit poll comes out we will have around 10% of the results in already.

    If you like, there are some midnight villages that vote on midnight ET on polling day and publish their results early, which is 8 AM UTC tomorrow.
  • Options

    It appears that all the hotel reservations of party workers were booked using the home address of one of the Party workers. Thus none of the hotel bills appeared in the declarations of expenditure.

    One of the wheezes I have heard about is to book hotels and meals in a neighbouring constituency. The expenditure is then technically not in the constituency where the by-election is held. I have no idea if it applies in this case, and in any case I might be wrong about the detail - I'm not an expert.
  • Options
    Speedy said:

    What time are NH "exit poll"s/results?

    At 3 AM UTC or 8 PM ET.
    Most precincts will close one hour earlier, so by the time the exit poll comes out we will have around 10% of the results in already.
    Sorry, could you run me through that again? Is it

    2AM UTC - first result 3AM exit poll?
  • Options
    Speedy said:

    "Some rooms were booked under the name "Mr Conservatives"."

    LOL! Well that was subtle!
  • Options
    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:
    That depends, Cameron has said that a Leave vote would simply lead to France ending border controls to the UK on the French side and let all its Calais migrants go through the tunnel
    I'd be interested to know why France signed the Le Touquet treaty (referenced in an earlier thread). There must have been something in it for them. I don't buy the idea that it was done purely out of altruism. What do the French get out of it?

    The same reason the French Foreign Minister said last year they would not abandon the treaty no matter what happens regarding Brexit. They know that if the treaty were not in place and if it were seen by migrants that they have a better chance of getting to England then Calais would have 50,000 camping there not just 5,000.

    Making it tough to reach England helps Calais as much if not more than it helps the UK.

    There are only two parties that can bring an end to the treaty, The French Government and the British Government. Neither have any intention of doing so. Cameron is just being incredibly stupid.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:
    That depends, Cameron has said that a Leave vote would simply lead to France ending border controls to the UK on the French side and let all its Calais migrants go through the tunnel
    I'd be interested to know why France signed the Le Touquet treaty (referenced in an earlier thread). There must have been something in it for them. I don't buy the idea that it was done purely out of altruism. What do the French get out of it?

    It appears that it was one of a series of agreements signed at the same time:
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2003/feb/04/foreignpolicy.uk

    Perhaps the French got something they wanted in one of the other areas, and the problem was not as bad or immediate back then.
    Thank you.

  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited February 2016

    Speedy said:

    What time are NH "exit poll"s/results?

    At 3 AM UTC or 8 PM ET.
    Most precincts will close one hour earlier, so by the time the exit poll comes out we will have around 10% of the results in already.
    Sorry, could you run me through that again? Is it

    2AM UTC - first result 3AM exit poll?
    Yeap, most results will come in after 2 AM on Wednesday, though the first ones will come after 8 AM tomorrow from those small villages.
  • Options
    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,971

    It appears that all the hotel reservations of party workers were booked using the home address of one of the Party workers. Thus none of the hotel bills appeared in the declarations of expenditure.

    One of the wheezes I have heard about is to book hotels and meals in a neighbouring constituency. The expenditure is then technically not in the constituency where the by-election is held. I have no idea if it applies in this case, and in any case I might be wrong about the detail - I'm not an expert.
    The report didn't make that clear, but the dodgy aspect seems to lie in the fact that hundreds of bookings were made using the home address of one party worker rather than in the name of the Conservative Party.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926
    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    What time are NH "exit poll"s/results?

    At 3 AM UTC or 8 PM ET.
    Most precincts will close one hour earlier, so by the time the exit poll comes out we will have around 10% of the results in already.
    Sorry, could you run me through that again? Is it

    2AM UTC - first result 3AM exit poll?
    Yeap, most results will come in after 2 AM on Wednesday, though the first ones will come after 8 AM tomorrow from those small villages.
    Those small village votes probably a bit more Cruzy I'm guessing.
  • Options
    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,971
    Should also add there was an interview with Carswell, who said he hasn't yet decided whether or not to refer the matter to the Police. He wants more time to think about it ...
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,006
    SeanT said:

    Read the parents' comments on their petition. Then perhaps you would not dismiss this so glibly.

    Again, it's the white working classes who are getting shafted - and their kids. Not nice middle class Londoners. It's the people the Left is meant to protect - the weak, and the poor. Yet you scoff.

    Despicable.

    Is it more paranoid to believe that Breitbart readers might have written some of those comments, or is it more paranoid to believe in a big conspiracy in the West Midlands that only a far-right American website can reveal?

    This is my quandary.
  • Options
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/sc/south_carolina_republican_presidential_primary-4151.html

    Why I find it hard to see past Trump for SC, regardless of NH. Crush Cruz then the New Yorker becomes the standard bearer for the South. Rubio is relying on second in NH and then first in SC, I don't see it.

    Anyway lets see what happens in NH, although I can't see the polls being that wrong for Trump not to win NH.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,836

    Bill Clinton seems to be starting to morph into Jimmy Carter.

    To be fair to Bill Clinton, he managed to have adultery in rather more than just his heart.
    Oral sex is not adultery. The Bible says so.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205
    SeanT said:
    Goodness me. He looks - I know, shallow of me - as if he ought to be the patient.

    Still, v naughty. Patients with mental problems are very vulnerable, more so than patients with purely physical problems.
  • Options
    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    What time are NH "exit poll"s/results?

    At 3 AM UTC or 8 PM ET.
    Most precincts will close one hour earlier, so by the time the exit poll comes out we will have around 10% of the results in already.
    Sorry, could you run me through that again? Is it

    2AM UTC - first result 3AM exit poll?
    Yeap, most results will come in after 2 AM on Wednesday, though the first ones will come after 8 AM tomorrow from those small villages.
    do you mean tomorrow tomorrow or Wednesday tomorrow?
  • Options
    viewcode said:

    ...There are two posters on here on particular who continually say they are undecided and then spend every moment they are on here attacking LEAVE and defending Cameron and REMAIN...

    I sincerely hope you aren't referring to me. I have not hidden that I side with REMAIN and I would hope that was obvious.
    No, to be clear I was not. You have not only made clear that you are on the REMAIN side but have also expressed your doubts about your choice at times and criticised some of the REMAIN tactics. The same goes for posters like David who seems to have been more affected by recent Cameron stumbles than others.
  • Options
    notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    SeanT said:

    EPG said:

    SeanT said:
    My sister and teenage nephew live in Crewe.

    Once again that appears, on the face of it, the school and police authorities colluding to play down/cover up a major incident, exacerbating tensions.
    This story doesn't surprise me at all. I went into an Asian shop the other day and was completely ignored, even though I was the only person in.

    All the old industrial working-class northern towns are just full of every nationality under the sun. Something has to give. You can feel the tension sometimes. Older people can't believe the change in their communities and it's happened in such a short space of time.
    Breitbart does seem rather more sensationalist than the Crewe Chronicle:

    http://www.crewechronicle.co.uk/news/crewe-south-cheshire-news/police-called-fight-school-10839951

    "Jason Fraser, principal of Sir William Stanier Community School, said: “During the lunchtime break yesterday, an altercation involving six pupils took place in the school playground. Staff responded quickly and effectively to manage the situation.

    “Our school has a zero-tolerance approach to any behaviour that does not meet the high standards we expect, and we acted swiftly to exclude those involved, pending a full investigation.

    “The safety and wellbeing of all students and staff, in and out of school, is always our utmost priority. As such, the decision was taken to involve the police as a precautionary measure. School then continued as normal for the rest of the afternoon and is open as usual today"


    I wonder who has better reporters on the ground? And who relies on twittersphere hysteria...
    Kids fight in playground
    Apparently equals white man's race death at the hands of the Jezlamists
    Read the parents' comments on their petition. Then perhaps you would not dismiss this so glibly.

    Again, it's the white working classes who are getting shafted - and their kids. Not nice middle class Londoners. It's the people the Left is meant to protect - the weak, and the poor. Yet you scoff.

    Despicable.
    It's a pathological inability to see any one they perceive to be a victim, to be anything but a victim.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Pulpstar said:

    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    What time are NH "exit poll"s/results?

    At 3 AM UTC or 8 PM ET.
    Most precincts will close one hour earlier, so by the time the exit poll comes out we will have around 10% of the results in already.
    Sorry, could you run me through that again? Is it

    2AM UTC - first result 3AM exit poll?
    Yeap, most results will come in after 2 AM on Wednesday, though the first ones will come after 8 AM tomorrow from those small villages.
    Those small village votes probably a bit more Cruzy I'm guessing.
    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/hampshires-midnight-voters-36626785
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,836
    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:
    That depends, Cameron has said that a Leave vote would simply lead to France ending border controls to the UK on the French side and let all its Calais migrants go through the tunnel
    I'd be interested to know why France signed the Le Touquet treaty (referenced in an earlier thread). There must have been something in it for them. I don't buy the idea that it was done purely out of altruism. What do the French get out of it?

    A French minister explained it today. They don't want Calais to be a magnet for illegal immigrants. Even if the French stopped co-operating with us, not everyone would get through to the UK. So, you'd get a huge and growing backlog of people at Calais. Perhaps, ultimately, rail and ferry services would be shut down.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    What time are NH "exit poll"s/results?

    At 3 AM UTC or 8 PM ET.
    Most precincts will close one hour earlier, so by the time the exit poll comes out we will have around 10% of the results in already.
    Sorry, could you run me through that again? Is it

    2AM UTC - first result 3AM exit poll?
    Yeap, most results will come in after 2 AM on Wednesday, though the first ones will come after 8 AM tomorrow from those small villages.
    do you mean tomorrow tomorrow or Wednesday tomorrow?
    Most precincts close at 2 AM on Wednesday London time.
    Some small villages close just after 8AM on Tuesday London time and some at 3 AM Wednesday London time.
    Exit polls are allowed to be published only after the last precinct closes at 3 AM Wednesday London time.

    OK ?
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205
    EPG said:

    SeanT said:

    This story doesn't surprise me at all. I went into an Asian shop the other day and was completely ignored, even though I was the only person in.

    All the old industrial working-class northern towns are just full of every nationality under the sun. Something has to give. You can feel the tension sometimes. Older people can't believe the change in their communities and it's happened in such a short space of time.
    Breitbart does seem rather more sensationalist than the Crewe Chronicle:

    http://www.crewechronicle.co.uk/news/crewe-south-cheshire-news/police-called-fight-school-10839951

    "Jason Fraser, principal of Sir William Stanier Community School, said: “During the lunchtime break yesterday, an altercation involving six pupils took place in the school playground. Staff responded quickly and effectively to manage the situation.

    “Our school has a zero-tolerance approach to any behaviour that does not meet the high standards we expect, and we acted swiftly to exclude those involved, pending a full investigation.

    “The safety and wellbeing of all students and staff, in and out of school, is always our utmost priority. As such, the decision was taken to involve the police as a precautionary measure. School then continued as normal for the rest of the afternoon and is open as usual today"


    I wonder who has better reporters on the ground? And who relies on twittersphere hysteria...
    Kids fight in playground
    Apparently equals white man's race death at the hands of the Jezlamists
    I think the concern (and I don't share the view that such stories are necessarily poisonous for Remain) is the feeling that a lot of ordinary people have that those in charge simply do not take their concerns seriously and seem more bothered about smothering an issue with warm but empty words and protecting the institution and its reputation rather than actually resolving the problem.

    This is not an ethnic or class issue, IMO.

    It just seems so hard to get people in charge - of anything, frankly - to accept that they have a problem, one bigger than they probably think, that the last bloody thing anyone wants to hear are the words "bad apples", "take this seriously", "lessons learned" or "policies/procedures" etc - let alone in that special condescending tone learnt on some piss-awful media strategy training course - and that the one thing, the ONLY thing people want to hear are the words: "Yes, you're right this is bad. Bloody awful in fact. We'll try and put it right. We're sorry." And then, actually to do something about it.

    See Cyclefree's Guide to the Nine Stages of A Crisis.
  • Options
    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    What time are NH "exit poll"s/results?

    At 3 AM UTC or 8 PM ET.
    Most precincts will close one hour earlier, so by the time the exit poll comes out we will have around 10% of the results in already.
    Sorry, could you run me through that again? Is it

    2AM UTC - first result 3AM exit poll?
    Yeap, most results will come in after 2 AM on Wednesday, though the first ones will come after 8 AM tomorrow from those small villages.
    do you mean tomorrow tomorrow or Wednesday tomorrow?
    Most precincts close at 2 AM on Wednesday London time.
    Some small villages close just after 8AM on Tuesday London time and some at 3 AM Wednesday London time.
    Exit polls are allowed to be published only after the last precinct closes at 3 AM Wednesday London time.

    OK ?
    Yes thanks - sorry until you linked that article I couldn't make head nor tail of it.

    Are we expecting last minute polls tonight?
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205
    Sean_F said:

    Bill Clinton seems to be starting to morph into Jimmy Carter.

    To be fair to Bill Clinton, he managed to have adultery in rather more than just his heart.
    Oral sex is not adultery. The Bible says so.
    Try telling that to your wife.

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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,995
    watford30 said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:
    That depends, Cameron has said that a Leave vote would simply lead to France ending border controls to the UK on the French side and let all its Calais migrants go through the tunnel
    Then the French based Eurotunnel will be fined into extinction. They'll be made liable in the same way that airlines get walloped for allowing illegals to enter the UK on flights.
    What could Eurotunnel do about it other than shut the Channel Tunnel?
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