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  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    tlg86 said:

    This is the opening line of Sajid Javid's piece in the Mail on Sunday:

    "It's clear now that the United Kingdom should never have joined the European Union."

    http://tinyurl.com/jmcocgc

    He might as well have said "It's clear now that I should never have murdered my wife. But hey, we are where we are.... So I'm back dating again."
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    JackW said:

    As I indicated last year to PB I am of the conclusive view and REMAIN totally assured that :

    Hilary Clinton Will Be The Forty Fifth President Of The United States

    So the FBI won't indict before she is inaugurated? Good to have you back, btw.
    They will never indict her. If they get that far, at this stage, Obama will pardon her on the basis that it was all a misunderstanding.

    She makes too many such misunderstandings, but that's a different problem, and that would still not ruin her chances against Mr Trump.
    Surely a Presidential Pardon can only occur after a conviction?

    It would be very dubious if the President could grant immunity from prosecution!
    What did Ford pardon Nixon for ?
  • Does anyone have an clue as to which "major union" will come out for - ahem - 'Out' in-the-morrow...?
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    :smiley:

    Alistair Stewart
    #Brexit fact of the day:@bbc5live reports @BBCR1 @BBCNewsbeat poll suggesting 75% of 18-25 yo listeners do not know what a 'referendum' is.

    But most of them have 3 A's at A-level....and people wondered why Gove felt the need to tackle the blob so aggressively.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,960
    edited February 2016
    Mr. Mark, edited, because of a cock-up :pensive:

    It sounds like Javid's really out, but not proud.
  • TwistedFireStopperTwistedFireStopper Posts: 2,538
    edited February 2016
    Indigo said:

    Alistair Stewart
    #Brexit fact of the day:@bbc5live reports @BBCR1 @BBCNewsbeat poll suggesting 75% of 18-25 yo listeners do not know what a 'referendum' is.

    But most of them have 3 A's at A-level....and people wondered why Gove felt the need to tackle the blob so aggressively.
    Indeed. I bet they know about words like "safe space", "trigger word", "austerity", "oppression", "exploitation", "privilege", "positionality" and assorted other trendy leftist crap though :(
    These are the sort of comments that make PB so unappealing at times. The sheer smugness, the absolute belief that anybody who doesn't share your right wing views is thick, useless, inept, evil, or just plain wrong.
    We all do it at times, I guess, but the constant use by the more partisan types must have an effect on the site.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited February 2016
    ...
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    tlg86 said:

    This is the opening line of Sajid Javid's piece in the Mail on Sunday:

    "It's clear now that the United Kingdom should never have joined the European Union."

    http://tinyurl.com/jmcocgc

    The number of Outers who have become Inners does seem to bear some correlation to whether they are In or Out of the cabinet.

  • Surely Boris must be Leave. To have taken all this rime to come out and endorse Remain and the 'deal' will mame him look terrible.

    He simply will not be elected leader if he joins Remain now.

    Whilst if he plays a leadership role in Leave, even if not successful on 23 June, he'll demonstrate leadership ability.
    Agreed. Boris has no real choice but to come out and back Leave, now, if he ever wants to have a shot at PM. Even if he loses, Cameron et al will still probably still have to give him a plum job in cabinet afterwards to heal the divisions.

    The field has been left completely open for him, Gove's raised the stakes, warmed him up nicely as the intro act and the eyes of the nation are on him.

    So he really has nothing to lose, but he does have to fight hard, and quite a bit to win.

    If he doesn't do it, he's finished.
    He's got himself to a point now where he will look lame to back Remain. Backing Leave is now his best option on a personal level. But:

    1) he will have to lead the charge if he is going to maintain his position as a big beast
    2) he risks coming under brutal mortar on his own inconsistency and character from the Remain side - the gloves will be off
    3) he has to weigh nicely just how hard he can fight in return without debating himself from Cabinet office after 23 June

    He has a tricky path ahead and he will need all his skills to pick his way along it.
    Yes, and that's what leaders are made of, isn't it? I have no doubt in my mind Boris believes himself to be a leader, so this is time for him to shows what he's made of.

    On your points:

    (1) Absolutely agreed - he must do this
    (2) He will, but he's Boris, and to some extent gets away with it - the reason he'll be delaying until tonight will be to credibly explain his delay (even if it's basically, at heart, career calculation)
    (3) He will fight with gusto, as Boris does, and apologise if he oversteps the mark (he managed to get a expletive ridden text message from Cameron prior to the election, and survive that)

    As long as he's statesmanlike and not nasty, he should be ok.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,312



    You can: it's explicit in Article two, clause one of the constitution:

    The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

    That's reinforced in Article One, on Congress' powers. There's nothing in the constitution to limit the scope of impeachment (on the contrary: "The House of Representatives ... shall have the sole Power of Impeachment." That implies the House's powers override any other consideration.

    Hmm, but Article 2 doesn't stop him pardoning her before any impeachment, and it'd be hard to impeach someone who's been pardoned. Article 1 merely means nobody else can impeach, it doesn't imply they can impeach regardless.

    In practice, I can't see it happening - it would seem an incredibly partisan move, much more than shutting down Congress over the debt ceiling, and ultimately the public are keen to have the office of the President respected. They'd need to do it before the election, therefore, and I doubt if there's even time - these things take forever.

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187
    I know Farage is not liked among many Leavers on here, but he does put across his views very well. I don't think he should be running the campaign but he has a key role to play in the debate.

    I thought it was interesting that the BBC put up a picture of Farage and Galloway while Farage during the interview. I thought Farage handled the question well and actually said that Galloway talks to the Muslim population who are currently for Remain (not sure if that's true).
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    tlg86 said:

    This is the opening line of Sajid Javid's piece in the Mail on Sunday:

    "It's clear now that the United Kingdom should never have joined the European Union."

    http://tinyurl.com/jmcocgc

    We all agree, SJ is a plonker !!
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Cameron making a fool of himself over Child Benefit on Marr.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,090
    surbiton said:

    Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    JackW said:

    As I indicated last year to PB I am of the conclusive view and REMAIN totally assured that :

    Hilary Clinton Will Be The Forty Fifth President Of The United States

    So the FBI won't indict before she is inaugurated? Good to have you back, btw.
    They will never indict her. If they get that far, at this stage, Obama will pardon her on the basis that it was all a misunderstanding.

    She makes too many such misunderstandings, but that's a different problem, and that would still not ruin her chances against Mr Trump.
    Surely a Presidential Pardon can only occur after a conviction?

    It would be very dubious if the President could grant immunity from prosecution!
    What did Ford pardon Nixon for ?
    Everything he had done or might have done.

    In answer to your earlier reply, Hilary has also resigned from the office in question. Impeachment would be needed for her, as for Nixon, to bar them from holding office in future, e.g. The presidency.

    My understanding was the pardon halted impeachment as well as prosecution in Nixon's case. I am wondering, on reflection, if I am still right and the pardon exemption revealed by @david_herdson only applies to any penalties arising from a previous impeachment.

    I am however not sure. It's probably moot as I doubt if she will be indicted but I would welcome further information when I get back later.

    Have a good morning.
  • Whilst we're on the subject, it is interesting to review just how badly I've called Tory big beasts so far:

    I thought May was a certainty for Leave, and Javid a very strong possibility.

    Nope.

    I thought either Hammond or Hunt might join.

    Er.. no.

    Then I thought Greening or Truss would calculate an opening for them.

    Nada.

    And I never seriously thought Boris or Gove would back Leave until very recently.

    Hmm.

    At least I got Patel right.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,898

    150,000 will be at Glastonbury too during the vote. Will that help Leave in a narrow fight :wink:

    chestnut said:

    Alistair Stewart
    #Brexit fact of the day:@bbc5live reports @BBCR1 @BBCNewsbeat poll suggesting 75% of 18-25 yo listeners do not know what a 'referendum' is.

    Last night's Survation was the same.

    To reach the result they published they had to weight up under 55s enormously and even then the small number of young people they reached seemed largely oblivious to recent events.

    Postal vote. Relatively easy to target I would have thought
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    'Let's say we get the emergency brake in place in 2017"...

    No fixed date. No guarantee.
  • Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    JackW said:

    As I indicated last year to PB I am of the conclusive view and REMAIN totally assured that :

    Hilary Clinton Will Be The Forty Fifth President Of The United States

    So the FBI won't indict before she is inaugurated? Good to have you back, btw.
    They will never indict her. If they get that far, at this stage, Obama will pardon her on the basis that it was all a misunderstanding.

    She makes too many such misunderstandings, but that's a different problem, and that would still not ruin her chances against Mr Trump.
    Surely a Presidential Pardon can only occur after a conviction?

    It would be very dubious if the President could grant immunity from prosecution!
    He or she can, and Ford did. From the text of his pardon of Nixon:

    It is believed that a trial of Richard Nixon, if it became necessary, could not fairly begin until a year or more has elapsed. In the meantime, the tranquility to which this nation has been restored by the events of recent weeks could be irreparably lost by the prospects of bringing to trial a former President of the United States. The prospects of such trial will cause prolonged and divisive debate over the propriety of exposing to further punishment and degradation a man who has already paid the unprecedented penalty of relinquishing the highest elective office of the United States.

    Now, THEREFORE, I, GERALD R. FORD, President of the United States, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9, 1974.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited February 2016

    Indigo said:

    Alistair Stewart
    #Brexit fact of the day:@bbc5live reports @BBCR1 @BBCNewsbeat poll suggesting 75% of 18-25 yo listeners do not know what a 'referendum' is.

    But most of them have 3 A's at A-level....and people wondered why Gove felt the need to tackle the blob so aggressively.
    Indeed. I bet they know about words like "safe space", "trigger word", "austerity", "oppression", "exploitation", "privilege", "positionality" and assorted other trendy leftist crap though :(
    These are the sort of comments that make PB so unappealing at times. The sheer smugness, the absolute belief that anybody who doesn't share your right wing views is thick, useless, inept, evil, or just plain wrong.
    Or possibly the view that our youth should receive a BALANCED education in which political and religious indoctrination play not part, so that they can look on the world with a mature and educated mind and form their own views. Shocking idea I know. And yet, our youth are conspicuously aware of ideas like "safe spaces", see the recent "Rhodes must fall" idiocy, and yet this survey says the vast majority don't know what a referendum is. Does this sound like a balanced education in civics to you, or possibly one leaning to the political views of the educational establishment ?

    Seriously, you have to be kidding, after all the recent blood letting in Labour and the hard-left because their members do not have sufficient ideological purity, and you have to cheek to suggest this is a right-wing characteristic ? The Corbynistas appear to be of the opinion that anyone with an imaginative view of the world that doesnt mesh with the party line is a Tory, so perhaps it is the right-wingers that have the more liberal views :smirk:
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I can't watch him. It's just embarrassing.
    chestnut said:

    Cameron making a fool of himself over Child Benefit on Marr.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    Purely as an anecdote, and of no other worth, 8 people at dinner last night. 6 are strongly Leave, 2 most likely for Leave.

    Cameron came in for quite a kicking for his poor negotiation. Unprompted by me, I might add.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187
    chestnut said:

    Cameron making a fool of himself over Child Benefit on Marr.

    He says the detail needs to be agreed. This is a big development.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Sean_F said:

    Surely Boris must be Leave. To have taken all this rime to come out and endorse Remain and the 'deal' will mame him look terrible.

    He simply will not be elected leader if he joins Remain now.

    Whilst if he plays a leadership role in Leave, even if not successful on 23 June, he'll demonstrate leadership ability.
    Agreed. Boris has no real choice but to come out and back Leave, now, if he ever wants to have a shot at PM. Even if he loses, Cameron et al will still probably still have to give him a plum job in cabinet afterwards to heal the divisions.

    The field has been left completely open for him, Gove's raised the stakes, warmed him up nicely as the intro act and the eyes of the nation are on him.

    So he really has nothing to lose, but he does have to fight hard, and quite a bit to win.

    If he doesn't do it, he's finished.
    The BBC reports that he will support Leave.
    Would be quite an anticlimax if he backed Remain now. If he was going to do that, why not do it on Saturday with everyone else?

    Not sure about him getting a nice consolation prize if Remain wins. Some Leavers will but not necessarily Boris. Really, he needs his side to win the Referendum. I expect he knows that.
  • Sports Direct town 'overcrowding risk'

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news

    Nice impartial headline...The Guardian / BBC are as fast to get "Sports Direct" as the Mail are to get "Immigrants" or the Express "Diana" into their headlines.
  • Purely as an anecdote, and of no other worth, 8 people at dinner last night. 6 are strongly Leave, 2 most likely for Leave.

    Cameron came in for quite a kicking for his poor negotiation. Unprompted by me, I might add.

    I think if Vote Leave gets the official designation, with Boris and Gove at the front, and with 110+ Tory MPs backing it, we've got a good fight on our hands.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited February 2016
    tlg86 said:

    chestnut said:

    Cameron making a fool of himself over Child Benefit on Marr.

    He says the detail needs to be agreed. This is a big development.
    What was all the negotiating about last week?
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Given we've had TWO referendums in the last five years, I'd expect them to have a clue.
    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    Alistair Stewart
    #Brexit fact of the day:@bbc5live reports @BBCR1 @BBCNewsbeat poll suggesting 75% of 18-25 yo listeners do not know what a 'referendum' is.

    But most of them have 3 A's at A-level....and people wondered why Gove felt the need to tackle the blob so aggressively.
    Indeed. I bet they know about words like "safe space", "trigger word", "austerity", "oppression", "exploitation", "privilege", "positionality" and assorted other trendy leftist crap though :(
    These are the sort of comments that make PB so unappealing at times. The sheer smugness, the absolute belief that anybody who doesn't share your right wing views is thick, useless, inept, evil, or just plain wrong.
    Or possibly the view that our youth should receive a BALANCED education in which political and religious indoctrination play not part, so that they can look on the world with a mature and educated mind and form their own views. Shocking idea I know. And yet, our youth are conspicuously aware of ideas like "safe spaces", see the recent "Rhodes must fall" idiocy, and yet this survey says the vast majority don't know what a referendum is. Does this sound like a balanced education in civics to you, or possibly one leaning to the political views of the educational establishment ?

    Seriously, you have to be kidding, after all the recent blood letting in Labour and the hard-left because their members do not have sufficient ideological purity, and you have to cheek to suggest this is a right-wing characteristic ?
  • glwglw Posts: 9,549

    Alistair Stewart
    #Brexit fact of the day:@bbc5live reports @BBCR1 @BBCNewsbeat poll suggesting 75% of 18-25 yo listeners do not know what a 'referendum' is.

    But most of them have 3 A's at A-level....and people wondered why Gove felt the need to tackle the blob so aggressively.
    Never mind the failings of the education system, 18 to 25 year olds have lived through two recent major referendum campaigns. I doubt that 75% of young people are that oblivious to the world, so I suspect the poll is either very poorly designed or didn't really ask "do you know what a referendum is?"
  • TwistedFireStopperTwistedFireStopper Posts: 2,538
    edited February 2016
    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    Alistair Stewart
    #Brexit fact of the day:@bbc5live reports @BBCR1 @BBCNewsbeat poll suggesting 75% of 18-25 yo listeners do not know what a 'referendum' is.

    But most of them have 3 A's at A-level....and people wondered why Gove felt the need to tackle the blob so aggressively.
    Indeed. I bet they know about words like "safe space", "trigger word", "austerity", "oppression", "exploitation", "privilege", "positionality" and assorted other trendy leftist crap though :(
    These are the sort of comments that make PB so unappealing at times. The sheer smugness, the absolute belief that anybody who doesn't share your right wing views is thick, useless, inept, evil, or just plain wrong.
    Or possibly the view that our youth should receive a BALANCED education in which political and religious indoctrination play not part, so that they can look on the world with a mature and educated mind and form their own views. Shocking idea I know. And yet, our youth are conspicuously aware of ideas like "safe spaces", see the recent "Rhodes must fall" idiocy, and yet this survey says the vast majority don't know what a referendum is. Does this sound like a balanced education in civics to you, or possibly one leaning to the political views of the educational establishment ?
    My lads, two at uni, and one starting sixth form this year no feck all about safe spaces and trigger words. They do know about austerity, though, because at our level, it's a fact of life. Real life really isn't like the Daily Mail and the Guardian try and depict it, you know.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095

    Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    JackW said:

    As I indicated last year to PB I am of the conclusive view and REMAIN totally assured that :

    Hilary Clinton Will Be The Forty Fifth President Of The United States

    So the FBI won't indict before she is inaugurated? Good to have you back, btw.
    They will never indict her. If they get that far, at this stage, Obama will pardon her on the basis that it was all a misunderstanding.

    She makes too many such misunderstandings, but that's a different problem, and that would still not ruin her chances against Mr Trump.
    Surely a Presidential Pardon can only occur after a conviction?

    It would be very dubious if the President could grant immunity from prosecution!
    He or she can, and Ford did. From the text of his pardon of Nixon:

    It is believed that a trial of Richard Nixon, if it became necessary, could not fairly begin until a year or more has elapsed. In the meantime, the tranquility to which this nation has been restored by the events of recent weeks could be irreparably lost by the prospects of bringing to trial a former President of the United States. The prospects of such trial will cause prolonged and divisive debate over the propriety of exposing to further punishment and degradation a man who has already paid the unprecedented penalty of relinquishing the highest elective office of the United States.

    Now, THEREFORE, I, GERALD R. FORD, President of the United States, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9, 1974.
    So Ford said it would be unfair to inflict more suffering on a man who has already fallen on his sword. Not exactly comparable with Hillary, is it?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187
    I hope for Cameron's sake we don't get a terrorist attack in Britain before the referendum.
  • Wanderer said:

    Sean_F said:

    Surely Boris must be Leave. To have taken all this rime to come out and endorse Remain and the 'deal' will mame him look terrible.

    He simply will not be elected leader if he joins Remain now.

    Whilst if he plays a leadership role in Leave, even if not successful on 23 June, he'll demonstrate leadership ability.
    Agreed. Boris has no real choice but to come out and back Leave, now, if he ever wants to have a shot at PM. Even if he loses, Cameron et al will still probably still have to give him a plum job in cabinet afterwards to heal the divisions.

    The field has been left completely open for him, Gove's raised the stakes, warmed him up nicely as the intro act and the eyes of the nation are on him.

    So he really has nothing to lose, but he does have to fight hard, and quite a bit to win.

    If he doesn't do it, he's finished.
    The BBC reports that he will support Leave.
    Would be quite an anticlimax if he backed Remain now. If he was going to do that, why not do it on Saturday with everyone else?

    Not sure about him getting a nice consolation prize if Remain wins. Some Leavers will but not necessarily Boris. Really, he needs his side to win the Referendum. I expect he knows that.
    David Cameron, rightly or wrongly, will feel personally betrayed by Boris Johnson over his handling of this. He won't be giving him anything in future unless he absolutely has to. A narrow defeat would be enough for that, I think.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Sports Direct town 'overcrowding risk'

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news

    Nice impartial headline...The Guardian / BBC are as fast to get "Sports Direct" as the Mail are to get "Immigrants" or the Express "Diana" into their headlines.

    You think the influx of immigrants is for Shirebrooks vibrant cafe scene ??
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited February 2016
    glw said:

    Alistair Stewart
    #Brexit fact of the day:@bbc5live reports @BBCR1 @BBCNewsbeat poll suggesting 75% of 18-25 yo listeners do not know what a 'referendum' is.

    But most of them have 3 A's at A-level....and people wondered why Gove felt the need to tackle the blob so aggressively.
    Never mind the failings of the education system, 18 to 25 year olds have lived through two recent major referendum campaigns. I doubt that 75% of young people are that oblivious to the world, so I suspect the poll is either very poorly designed or didn't really ask "do you know what a referendum is?"
    I doubt 75% is really accurate, but you will be surprised how much of a bubble most people live in, especially students. If you were England, what did the SIndy ref matter? And AV, again I bet it passed lots of people by.


  • You can: it's explicit in Article two, clause one of the constitution:

    The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

    That's reinforced in Article One, on Congress' powers. There's nothing in the constitution to limit the scope of impeachment (on the contrary: "The House of Representatives ... shall have the sole Power of Impeachment." That implies the House's powers override any other consideration.

    Hmm, but Article 2 doesn't stop him pardoning her before any impeachment, and it'd be hard to impeach someone who's been pardoned. Article 1 merely means nobody else can impeach, it doesn't imply they can impeach regardless.

    In practice, I can't see it happening - it would seem an incredibly partisan move, much more than shutting down Congress over the debt ceiling, and ultimately the public are keen to have the office of the President respected. They'd need to do it before the election, therefore, and I doubt if there's even time - these things take forever.

    I disagree. I think 'sole power of Impeachment' means that it's not restricted by any other factor (otherwise it's a back door to an Enabling Act - just issue a blanket pardon, retrospective and prospective, to all Federal officials and you have a dictator in office).

    I'd bet it's covered in the Federalist papers.
  • Wanderer said:

    Sean_F said:

    Surely Boris must be Leave. To have taken all this rime to come out and endorse Remain and the 'deal' will mame him look terrible.

    He simply will not be elected leader if he joins Remain now.

    Whilst if he plays a leadership role in Leave, even if not successful on 23 June, he'll demonstrate leadership ability.
    Agreed. Boris has no real choice but to come out and back Leave, now, if he ever wants to have a shot at PM. Even if he loses, Cameron et al will still probably still have to give him a plum job in cabinet afterwards to heal the divisions.

    The field has been left completely open for him, Gove's raised the stakes, warmed him up nicely as the intro act and the eyes of the nation are on him.

    So he really has nothing to lose, but he does have to fight hard, and quite a bit to win.

    If he doesn't do it, he's finished.
    The BBC reports that he will support Leave.
    Would be quite an anticlimax if he backed Remain now. If he was going to do that, why not do it on Saturday with everyone else?

    Not sure about him getting a nice consolation prize if Remain wins. Some Leavers will but not necessarily Boris. Really, he needs his side to win the Referendum. I expect he knows that.
    David Cameron, rightly or wrongly, will feel personally betrayed by Boris Johnson over his handling of this. He won't be giving him anything in future unless he absolutely has to. A narrow defeat would be enough for that, I think.
    Cameron does bear grudges, but I don't think he'll have a choice if it's a narrow defeat.

    He might have over half of his backbenchers/non payroll vote backing Leave, as well as a majority of the voluntary party, and that's just too powerful.

    If he snubs him, badly, he might get '22'ed.
  • volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    10-11 for Hillary looks the bet now she's halted Bernie's rise.GOP conservatives still see Rubio is their best shot as they believe,mistakenly,he will hit the 35% target of the Hispanic vote.He won't because the main Spanish speaking media are in opposition to him.Neither Rubio nor Trump will land a blow-it's all down to the demographics.
    BTW.The 5-1 is still on offer for the 60-65% Remain band.Whatever,Boris Johnson does he will have backed the wrong horse.A cynical manipulator if he goes Leave,a coward of he goes Remain.He's still a lay for the Tory leadership.
    The risks of Leave will be the persuasive factor and there is always bias to the status-quo.Golden Sachs reckoned there would be a run on the pound if #Brexit which would reduce by 20%.This could lead to mortgages trebling and house prices crashing.A run on the pound could cause our feeble economy to completely collapse.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    @Casino_Royale

    When does the register close for the referendum. I am moving 31 March...
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966



    You can: it's explicit in Article two, clause one of the constitution:

    The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

    That's reinforced in Article One, on Congress' powers. There's nothing in the constitution to limit the scope of impeachment (on the contrary: "The House of Representatives ... shall have the sole Power of Impeachment." That implies the House's powers override any other consideration.

    Hmm, but Article 2 doesn't stop him pardoning her before any impeachment, and it'd be hard to impeach someone who's been pardoned. Article 1 merely means nobody else can impeach, it doesn't imply they can impeach regardless.
    The interesting bit of the pardoning act is it requires an admission of guilt, which is they subsequently pardoned.

    "Yes I admit I put the lives of our security services and armed forces at risk by hosting information on human intelligence sources on ongoing operations on an insecure private email server - vote Hillary!"
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    Sajid javeds explanation for his decision is fantastically illogical

  • If it did happen it'd depend on when:

    1. In the next month.

    Result: Sanders is nominated. It's too late for anyone else to enter the primary race and Sanders would win the majority of states after the event giving him enough delegates to take the nomination outright.

    2. Between late-March and mid-April.

    Result: Probably Biden. By late March, it should be too late for Sanders to win a majority of delegates once superdelegates are included. If Hillary fell at that point, it'd either end with a contested convention or with her withdrawal in favour of a third candidate (who wouldn't be on the ballots but Hillary would and her delegates would then become free agents).

    3. Between mid-April and the convention.

    Result: Probably Hillary, perhaps Biden. Hillary should have an outright majority of delegates by this stage and so even if she is arrested, she's in a strong position to dictate terms as long as leaked evidence doesn't look too damning. I could well see her fight on.

    4. Between the convention and formal filing deadlines.

    Result: As above, except the running mate becomes the beneficiary if she stands back. Depends on how far the legal process has gone, but there would be time for the DNC to nominate someone else if she was forced to withdraw.

    5. Between the formal filings and the Electoral College vote.

    Result: chaos. Her name would be on the ballot (or on the votes already cast) but a withdrawal at that stage would still give the nominated electors the chance to vote for someone else but in some states only. Some states legally mandate electors to vote as directed and those would have to go to Hillary. The Republican would almost certainly win anyway.

    6. After the Electoral College vote.

    Result: impeachment or resignation. She becomes president; she goes.

    A superb reply David. Did you have that ready to go as a thread? (HINT: if not - then it should be!)
    No, just knocked it up now. Thanks for the suggestion though!
  • TGOHF said:

    Sports Direct town 'overcrowding risk'

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news

    Nice impartial headline...The Guardian / BBC are as fast to get "Sports Direct" as the Mail are to get "Immigrants" or the Express "Diana" into their headlines.

    You think the influx of immigrants is for Shirebrooks vibrant cafe scene ??
    They could write the same about places like Slough, King Lynn, etc etc etc. There could be a really interesting and relevant piece (given EU ref) about issues of mass multi-occupancy by Eastern European migrants. But the opportunity to bash Sport Direct is too strong...
  • runnymede said:

    Sajid javeds explanation for his decision is fantastically illogical

    Indeed - and in stark contrast to Gove's.
  • Charles said:

    @Casino_Royale

    When does the register close for the referendum. I am moving 31 March...

    I don't know. You should be ok, normally it's only a few weeks before.
  • runnymede said:

    Sajid javeds explanation for his decision is fantastically illogical

    No it isn't. He's been offered Chancellor by Osborne.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Ben Page
    Most people say trust TV to inform them over #euref with 36% saying academics, 17% politicians and 3% celebrities - on @LBC at 10 on those
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187

    Golden Sachs reckoned there would be a run on the pound if #Brexit which would reduce by 20%.This could lead to mortgages trebling and house prices crashing.A run on the pound could cause our feeble economy to completely collapse.

    As a 20 something struggling to get on the housing ladder, that sounds appealing.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,789
    Wanderer said:

    Sean_F said:

    Surely Boris must be Leave. To have taken all this rime to come out and endorse Remain and the 'deal' will mame him look terrible.

    He simply will not be elected leader if he joins Remain now.

    Whilst if he plays a leadership role in Leave, even if not successful on 23 June, he'll demonstrate leadership ability.
    Agreed. Boris has no real choice but to come out and back Leave, now, if he ever wants to have a shot at PM. Even if he loses, Cameron et al will still probably still have to give him a plum job in cabinet afterwards to heal the divisions.

    The field has been left completely open for him, Gove's raised the stakes, warmed him up nicely as the intro act and the eyes of the nation are on him.

    So he really has nothing to lose, but he does have to fight hard, and quite a bit to win.

    If he doesn't do it, he's finished.
    The BBC reports that he will support Leave.
    Would be quite an anticlimax if he backed Remain now. If he was going to do that, why not do it on Saturday with everyone else?

    Not sure about him getting a nice consolation prize if Remain wins. Some Leavers will but not necessarily Boris. Really, he needs his side to win the Referendum. I expect he knows that.
    IMO, he has a very good chance of getting the top job if most Conservative voters support Leave.
  • The problem with the sovereignty bill (that Boris isn't waiting for anymore) is that it's a lot of round objects, and Michael Gove knows it.

    And he will have told Boris that.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Is this new news?

    Tory campaign team in London mayoral race confirm that @ZacGoldsmith will vote to leave EU #EUreferendum @BBCRadioLondon @BBCLondonNews
  • glw said:

    Alistair Stewart
    #Brexit fact of the day:@bbc5live reports @BBCR1 @BBCNewsbeat poll suggesting 75% of 18-25 yo listeners do not know what a 'referendum' is.

    But most of them have 3 A's at A-level....and people wondered why Gove felt the need to tackle the blob so aggressively.
    Never mind the failings of the education system, 18 to 25 year olds have lived through two recent major referendum campaigns. I doubt that 75% of young people are that oblivious to the world, so I suspect the poll is either very poorly designed or didn't really ask "do you know what a referendum is?"
    I doubt 75% is really accurate, but you will be surprised how much of a bubble most people live in, especially students. If you were England, what did the SIndy ref matter? And AV, again I bet it passed lots of people by.
    AV? No one round here talks of anything else. Except motor racing. I'm not sure which I understand less :(

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    JackW said:

    As I indicated last year to PB I am of the conclusive view and REMAIN totally assured that :

    Hilary Clinton Will Be The Forty Fifth President Of The United States

    So the FBI won't indict before she is inaugurated? Good to have you back, btw.
    They will never indict her. If they get that far, at this stage, Obama will pardon her on the basis that it was all a misunderstanding.

    She makes too many such misunderstandings, but that's a different problem, and that would still not ruin her chances against Mr Trump.
    Surely a Presidential Pardon can only occur after a conviction?

    It would be very dubious if the President could grant immunity from prosecution!
    He or she can, and Ford did. From the text of his pardon of Nixon:

    It is believed that a trial of Richard Nixon, if it became necessary, could not fairly begin until a year or more has elapsed. In the meantime, the tranquility to which this nation has been restored by the events of recent weeks could be irreparably lost by the prospects of bringing to trial a former President of the United States. The prospects of such trial will cause prolonged and divisive debate over the propriety of exposing to further punishment and degradation a man who has already paid the unprecedented penalty of relinquishing the highest elective office of the United States.

    Now, THEREFORE, I, GERALD R. FORD, President of the United States, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9, 1974.
    Talking about Clinton pardons, a friend gave me the scoop on the controversial Marc Rich pardon the other day. Not for writing on the internet, but perhaps at the next drinks
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,888

    10-11 for Hillary looks the bet now she's halted Bernie's rise.GOP conservatives still see Rubio is their best shot as they believe,mistakenly,he will hit the 35% target of the Hispanic vote.He won't because the main Spanish speaking media are in opposition to him.Neither Rubio nor Trump will land a blow-it's all down to the demographics.
    BTW.The 5-1 is still on offer for the 60-65% Remain band.Whatever,Boris Johnson does he will have backed the wrong horse.A cynical manipulator if he goes Leave,a coward of he goes Remain.He's still a lay for the Tory leadership.
    The risks of Leave will be the persuasive factor and there is always bias to the status-quo.Golden Sachs reckoned there would be a run on the pound if #Brexit which would reduce by 20%.This could lead to mortgages trebling and house prices crashing.A run on the pound could cause our feeble economy to completely collapse.

    Mortgages trebling. I've heard some shit in my time, but that takes the cake on Brexit.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,789

    10-11 for Hillary looks the bet now she's halted Bernie's rise.GOP conservatives still see Rubio is their best shot as they believe,mistakenly,he will hit the 35% target of the Hispanic vote.He won't because the main Spanish speaking media are in opposition to him.Neither Rubio nor Trump will land a blow-it's all down to the demographics.
    BTW.The 5-1 is still on offer for the 60-65% Remain band.Whatever,Boris Johnson does he will have backed the wrong horse.A cynical manipulator if he goes Leave,a coward of he goes Remain.He's still a lay for the Tory leadership.
    The risks of Leave will be the persuasive factor and there is always bias to the status-quo.Golden Sachs reckoned there would be a run on the pound if #Brexit which would reduce by 20%.This could lead to mortgages trebling and house prices crashing.A run on the pound could cause our feeble economy to completely collapse.

    A depreciation in Sterling wouldn't affect mortgage rates. It would put up the price of imports, but help exporters.

  • tlg86 said:

    I hope for Cameron's sake we don't get a terrorist attack in Britain before the referendum.

    Cameron would be the last person I'd be worrying about in the event of any attack.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,549

    I doubt 75% is really accurate, but you will be surprised how much of a bubble most people live in, especially students. If you were England, what did the SIndy ref matter? And AV, again I bet it passed lots of people by.

    You could have been stuck down a coal mine and you would still have known that the Scottish independence referendum was taking place. I'm not saying they were following it closely, but I find it very hard to believe that a significant number of young people don't know what a referendum is.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,982
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-35604776

    Is the BBC seriously trying to blame Sports Direct for inadequate housing?
  • Wanderer said:

    Sean_F said:

    Surely Boris must be Leave. To have taken all this rime to come out and endorse Remain and the 'deal' will mame him look terrible.

    He simply will not be elected leader if he joins Remain now.

    Whilst if he plays a leadership role in Leave, even if not successful on 23 June, he'll demonstrate leadership ability.
    Agreed. Boris has no real choice but to come out and back Leave, now, if he ever wants to have a shot at PM. Even if he loses, Cameron et al will still probably still have to give him a plum job in cabinet afterwards to heal the divisions.

    The field has been left completely open for him, Gove's raised the stakes, warmed him up nicely as the intro act and the eyes of the nation are on him.

    So he really has nothing to lose, but he does have to fight hard, and quite a bit to win.

    If he doesn't do it, he's finished.
    The BBC reports that he will support Leave.
    Would be quite an anticlimax if he backed Remain now. If he was going to do that, why not do it on Saturday with everyone else?

    Not sure about him getting a nice consolation prize if Remain wins. Some Leavers will but not necessarily Boris. Really, he needs his side to win the Referendum. I expect he knows that.
    David Cameron, rightly or wrongly, will feel personally betrayed by Boris Johnson over his handling of this. He won't be giving him anything in future unless he absolutely has to. A narrow defeat would be enough for that, I think.
    Cameron does bear grudges, but I don't think he'll have a choice if it's a narrow defeat.

    He might have over half of his backbenchers/non payroll vote backing Leave, as well as a majority of the voluntary party, and that's just too powerful.

    If he snubs him, badly, he might get '22'ed.
    Sorry, rereading my comment I realise it was ambiguous. I agree with you. David Cameron only has a free hand with a clear win.
  • Marr: Boris is watching. What's your message to him?

    Cameron: "I would say to Boris, what I said to everyone else, we would be better, stronger and safer in the EU."
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,898
    Just watched Nicola Sturgeon on Marr. Both my wife and I, OAP’s in the East of England cannot understand why she’s supposed to both unpopular and dangerous. Seems eminently sensible and reasonable to us. If she were to become a national, instead of a Nationalist, politician we’d be strongly tempted to support whichever party she was involved with.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,914

    Is this new news?

    Tory campaign team in London mayoral race confirm that @ZacGoldsmith will vote to leave EU #EUreferendum @BBCRadioLondon @BBCLondonNews

    Yes and no. It was not official, but it was quite well trailed.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Cracking chart

    Freedom of movement. What % of each country's working age population is living in another EU country? https://t.co/4Ax7PLw96p
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,810

    Indigo said:

    Alistair Stewart
    #Brexit fact of the day:@bbc5live reports @BBCR1 @BBCNewsbeat poll suggesting 75% of 18-25 yo listeners do not know what a 'referendum' is.

    But most of them have 3 A's at A-level....and people wondered why Gove felt the need to tackle the blob so aggressively.
    Indeed. I bet they know about words like "safe space", "trigger word", "austerity", "oppression", "exploitation", "privilege", "positionality" and assorted other trendy leftist crap though :(
    These are the sort of comments that make PB so unappealing at times. The sheer smugness, the absolute belief that anybody who doesn't share your right wing views is thick, useless, inept, evil, or just plain wrong.
    We all do it at times, I guess, but the constant use by the more partisan types must have an effect on the site.
    There are quite a few really nasty right wingers on here, inferiority complex I think makes them so mean and odious.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    Alistair Stewart
    #Brexit fact of the day:@bbc5live reports @BBCR1 @BBCNewsbeat poll suggesting 75% of 18-25 yo listeners do not know what a 'referendum' is.

    But most of them have 3 A's at A-level....and people wondered why Gove felt the need to tackle the blob so aggressively.
    Indeed. I bet they know about words like "safe space", "trigger word", "austerity", "oppression", "exploitation", "privilege", "positionality" and assorted other trendy leftist crap though :(
    These are the sort of comments that make PB so unappealing at times. The sheer smugness, the absolute belief that anybody who doesn't share your right wing views is thick, useless, inept, evil, or just plain wrong.
    Or possibly the view that our youth should receive a BALANCED education in which political and religious indoctrination play not part, so that they can look on the world with a mature and educated mind and form their own views. Shocking idea I know. And yet, our youth are conspicuously aware of ideas like "safe spaces", see the recent "Rhodes must fall" idiocy, and yet this survey says the vast majority don't know what a referendum is. Does this sound like a balanced education in civics to you, or possibly one leaning to the political views of the educational establishment ?
    My lads, two at uni, and one starting sixth form this year no feck all about safe spaces and trigger words. They do know about austerity, though, because at our level, it's a fact of life. Real life really isn't like the Daily Mail and the Guardian try and depict it, you know.
    Funny that because my son, of a similar age, is very vocal on free speech, and having read rather a lot of the lack of free speech at university in the newspapers, has decided (rather oddly I thought) to pursue a military career rather than go to University, "because no one cares what you say in the army". I fear he might be wrong in that assessment, he needs to at least say "Sir" after he insults officers, but the sentiment is true all the same.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187

    Is this new news?

    Tory campaign team in London mayoral race confirm that @ZacGoldsmith will vote to leave EU #EUreferendum @BBCRadioLondon @BBCLondonNews

    I was wondering about him - that's interesting. It might hurt him in the London Mayoral race, but good for him if he is backing Leave.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,789

    Is this new news?

    Tory campaign team in London mayoral race confirm that @ZacGoldsmith will vote to leave EU #EUreferendum @BBCRadioLondon @BBCLondonNews

    Expected, but welcome nonetheless.
  • Sean_F said:

    Wanderer said:

    Sean_F said:

    Surely Boris must be Leave. To have taken all this rime to come out and endorse Remain and the 'deal' will mame him look terrible.

    He simply will not be elected leader if he joins Remain now.

    Whilst if he plays a leadership role in Leave, even if not successful on 23 June, he'll demonstrate leadership ability.
    Agreed. Boris has no real choice but to come out and back Leave, now, if he ever wants to have a shot at PM. Even if he loses, Cameron et al will still probably still have to give him a plum job in cabinet afterwards to heal the divisions.

    The field has been left completely open for him, Gove's raised the stakes, warmed him up nicely as the intro act and the eyes of the nation are on him.

    So he really has nothing to lose, but he does have to fight hard, and quite a bit to win.

    If he doesn't do it, he's finished.
    The BBC reports that he will support Leave.
    Would be quite an anticlimax if he backed Remain now. If he was going to do that, why not do it on Saturday with everyone else?

    Not sure about him getting a nice consolation prize if Remain wins. Some Leavers will but not necessarily Boris. Really, he needs his side to win the Referendum. I expect he knows that.
    IMO, he has a very good chance of getting the top job if most Conservative voters support Leave.
    I would back him over Osborne.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,810
    tlg86 said:

    Golden Sachs reckoned there would be a run on the pound if #Brexit which would reduce by 20%.This could lead to mortgages trebling and house prices crashing.A run on the pound could cause our feeble economy to completely collapse.

    As a 20 something struggling to get on the housing ladder, that sounds appealing.
    Pity it is just bollox to scare the fearties into voting for the establishment
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    10-11 for Hillary looks the bet now she's halted Bernie's rise.GOP conservatives still see Rubio is their best shot as they believe,mistakenly,he will hit the 35% target of the Hispanic vote.He won't because the main Spanish speaking media are in opposition to him.Neither Rubio nor Trump will land a blow-it's all down to the demographics.
    BTW.The 5-1 is still on offer for the 60-65% Remain band.Whatever,Boris Johnson does he will have backed the wrong horse.A cynical manipulator if he goes Leave,a coward of he goes Remain.He's still a lay for the Tory leadership.
    The risks of Leave will be the persuasive factor and there is always bias to the status-quo.Golden Sachs reckoned there would be a run on the pound if #Brexit which would reduce by 20%.This could lead to mortgages trebling and house prices crashing.A run on the pound could cause our feeble economy to completely collapse.

    Can you explain why a 20% fall in the pound (which I don't expect) would cause mortgages to treble and house prices to crash?

    Once you do, I'll post my counter arguments!
  • Sean_F said:

    Is this new news?

    Tory campaign team in London mayoral race confirm that @ZacGoldsmith will vote to leave EU #EUreferendum @BBCRadioLondon @BBCLondonNews

    Expected, but welcome nonetheless.
    Personally, he's not really my cup of tea. But I do think Zac has integrity.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Andrew Pierce
    'Step into the dark' will be most over used cliche by Yes camp as @David_Cameron used it 4 times already on @MarrShow
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,344
    edited February 2016
    TGOHF said:

    No wonder business is backing Remain..

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-35604776?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_england&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=english_regions

    Bolsover District Council has pledged to investigate the "unacceptable" division of this room - straight down the middle of the window

    Police say they have safety concerns about overcrowded houses in the town where one of Europe's largest sports retailers is based.

    Sports Direct employs at least 3,500 agency workers at its site in Shirebrook, Derbyshire.
    While filming in the town, the BBC was shown houses "carved into flats", including one with rooms partitioned down the middle of its windows.

    Bolsover Council admitted it was caught off guard by the influx of workers.
    Figures obtained by the BBC also show 46 housing complaints relating to overcrowding, repairs and conditions were made from April 2015 to 21 December last year - up from 16 in 2005 to 2006.

    Housing complaints relating to overcrowding and conditions have almost tripled in 10 years
    The Sports Direct agency workers, largely employed in the company's warehouse, come mainly from Eastern European countries like Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, Latvia, Lithuania and Albania.

    This is my neck of the woods, and is very dodgy / sensationalistic reporting. Yes there is quite an influx. Yes, it is manageable.

    Yes there is a an issue with some dodgy landlords. We've just seen one off who was racking, stacking and packing them in 2 to a room.

    Reading the story, they forgot to provide the context:

    - During the period the PRS has roughly doubled in size in Bolsover. So the real pro-rata increase in complaints is 50% not 200%.
    - No comparator is provided for the Social Rented Sector. Is the PRS in Bolsover actually better? The answer depends on which bit of teh PRS you are talking about.
    - 46 complaints from a rental population of perhaps 15,000 living in around 5,000 houses is under 1%. The "extra" complaints are 1 per 300 houses. Needs addressing - yes. Existential scandal - no. Should be addressable by at most 1 person of council enforcement staff in toto at one complaint per week.
    - They don't distinguish between above board and criminal landlords, which is crucial.
    - The Council have had the powers to regulate this in detail since at least 2004.

    And no direct evidence is provided for hanging the story on the Sports Direct hook in particular. I'd say they are trying to bag readers off the back of the Guardian campaign.
  • Mr. Glenn, it's an odd piece.

    'Sports Direct town' ... they're not responsible for housing. Is Westminster to be known as Politician town? Or Norwich as Insurance town?
  • Woah. Cameron did a funny.

    "I know some people, y'know, see this as the Establishment versus The Rebel Alliance.."
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187

    tlg86 said:

    I hope for Cameron's sake we don't get a terrorist attack in Britain before the referendum.

    Cameron would be the last person I'd be worrying about in the event of any attack.
    Well quite. But he's linked our ability to stop terrorism to our membership of the EU. I suppose all of those countries not in the EU are more at risk...
  • Andrew Pierce
    'Step into the dark' will be most over used cliche by Yes camp as @David_Cameron used it 4 times already on @MarrShow

    Project Fear...
  • Sean_F said:

    Is this new news?

    Tory campaign team in London mayoral race confirm that @ZacGoldsmith will vote to leave EU #EUreferendum @BBCRadioLondon @BBCLondonNews

    Expected, but welcome nonetheless.
    Personally, he's not really my cup of tea. But I do think Zac has integrity.
    It is possible to support Remain and have integrity.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited February 2016
    I have to say Cameron is a class act. If it wasn't for some of his predecessors I could almost vote for him. Perfect reponse to questions about Boris. A knowing smile and then patronize him with the coup de grace the juxtaposition of Galloway and Farage.

    He's almost up there with Blair. He and Nicola must be this decades outstanding politicians.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited February 2016
    malcolmg said:

    Indigo said:

    Alistair Stewart
    #Brexit fact of the day:@bbc5live reports @BBCR1 @BBCNewsbeat poll suggesting 75% of 18-25 yo listeners do not know what a 'referendum' is.

    But most of them have 3 A's at A-level....and people wondered why Gove felt the need to tackle the blob so aggressively.
    Indeed. I bet they know about words like "safe space", "trigger word", "austerity", "oppression", "exploitation", "privilege", "positionality" and assorted other trendy leftist crap though :(
    These are the sort of comments that make PB so unappealing at times. The sheer smugness, the absolute belief that anybody who doesn't share your right wing views is thick, useless, inept, evil, or just plain wrong.
    We all do it at times, I guess, but the constant use by the more partisan types must have an effect on the site.
    There are quite a few really nasty right wingers on here, inferiority complex I think makes them so mean and odious.
    A few turnips as well, or so I have been led to believe.
  • Mr. Roger, I think many Conservatives would agree that Cameron's almost up there with Blair.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,982
    Roger said:

    then patronize him with the coup de gras

    Are you calling him podgy?
  • Didn't see it, but I am presuming Marr was shall we say less "confrontational" than normal. No flashing up of Bullingdon photos this time?
  • malcolmg said:

    There are quite a few really nasty right wingers on here, inferiority complex I think makes them so mean and odious.

    Ah: Self-awareness at last!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cDznpQVu0g

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,810
    edited February 2016
    Indigo said:

    malcolmg said:

    Indigo said:

    Alistair Stewart
    #Brexit fact of the day:@bbc5live reports @BBCR1 @BBCNewsbeat poll suggesting 75% of 18-25 yo listeners do not know what a 'referendum' is.

    But most of them have 3 A's at A-level....and people wondered why Gove felt the need to tackle the blob so aggressively.
    Indeed. I bet they know about words like "safe space", "trigger word", "austerity", "oppression", "exploitation", "privilege", "positionality" and assorted other trendy leftist crap though :(
    These are the sort of comments that make PB so unappealing at times. The sheer smugness, the absolute belief that anybody who doesn't share your right wing views is thick, useless, inept, evil, or just plain wrong.
    We all do it at times, I guess, but the constant use by the more partisan types must have an effect on the site.
    There are quite a few really nasty right wingers on here, inferiority complex I think makes them so mean and odious.
    A few turnips as well, or so I have been led to believe.
    At least a field full, would be a fair crop in any measure

    PS: I was not alleging that you were one of the nasty right wingers, just talking generally about some of the riff raff on here.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187

    Didn't see it, but I am presuming Marr was shall we say less "confrontational" than normal. No flashing up of Bullingdon photos this time?

    No, but they did feel the need to show a picture of Farage and Galloway during the Farage interview.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    Sean_F said:

    10-11 for Hillary looks the bet now she's halted Bernie's rise.GOP conservatives still see Rubio is their best shot as they believe,mistakenly,he will hit the 35% target of the Hispanic vote.He won't because the main Spanish speaking media are in opposition to him.Neither Rubio nor Trump will land a blow-it's all down to the demographics.
    BTW.The 5-1 is still on offer for the 60-65% Remain band.Whatever,Boris Johnson does he will have backed the wrong horse.A cynical manipulator if he goes Leave,a coward of he goes Remain.He's still a lay for the Tory leadership.
    The risks of Leave will be the persuasive factor and there is always bias to the status-quo.Golden Sachs reckoned there would be a run on the pound if #Brexit which would reduce by 20%.This could lead to mortgages trebling and house prices crashing.A run on the pound could cause our feeble economy to completely collapse.

    A depreciation in Sterling wouldn't affect mortgage rates. It would put up the price of imports, but help exporters.

    And as far as I am concerned that would be great, bring it on! If interest rates rise in response to a collapsed Pound I would be weeping with joy too.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Sean_F said:

    Is this new news?

    Tory campaign team in London mayoral race confirm that @ZacGoldsmith will vote to leave EU #EUreferendum @BBCRadioLondon @BBCLondonNews

    Expected, but welcome nonetheless.
    Personally, he's not really my cup of tea. But I do think Zac has integrity.
    It is possible to support Remain and have integrity.
    Indeed it is. Rather less possible to support the bullshit that Cameron has been spreading over the last couple of weeks and have integrity though.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891

    Roger said:

    then patronize him with the coup de gras

    Are you calling him podgy?
    Wasn't thinking!
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    10-11 for Hillary looks the bet now she's halted Bernie's rise.GOP conservatives still see Rubio is their best shot as they believe,mistakenly,he will hit the 35% target of the Hispanic vote.He won't because the main Spanish speaking media are in opposition to him.Neither Rubio nor Trump will land a blow-it's all down to the demographics.
    BTW.The 5-1 is still on offer for the 60-65% Remain band.Whatever,Boris Johnson does he will have backed the wrong horse.A cynical manipulator if he goes Leave,a coward of he goes Remain.He's still a lay for the Tory leadership.
    The risks of Leave will be the persuasive factor and there is always bias to the status-quo.Golden Sachs reckoned there would be a run on the pound if #Brexit which would reduce by 20%.This could lead to mortgages trebling and house prices crashing.A run on the pound could cause our feeble economy to completely collapse.

    A house price collapse?

    Much cheaper houses?

    Terrible news for people who want to buy.

    0% interest rates continue to push the over-valuation of property.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,961

    Sean_F said:

    Is this new news?

    Tory campaign team in London mayoral race confirm that @ZacGoldsmith will vote to leave EU #EUreferendum @BBCRadioLondon @BBCLondonNews

    Expected, but welcome nonetheless.
    Personally, he's not really my cup of tea. But I do think Zac has integrity.
    I strongly disagree with much of what he says, but it does seem to me that he has a deep personal integrity that Boris, Ken and Sadiq conspicuously lack. It's for that reason alone that I'm thinking of giving him my second preference (after Benita, probably) in the mayoral election - and I'm a lifelong Labour voter.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited February 2016
    tlg86 said:

    Didn't see it, but I am presuming Marr was shall we say less "confrontational" than normal. No flashing up of Bullingdon photos this time?

    No, but they did feel the need to show a picture of Farage and Galloway during the Farage interview.
    How unfortunate...I have no idea why they would possibly do that....I bet if Boris does opt for Leave, we will be hearing plenty about his past japes, snafus and controversial statements.
  • Mr. 86, sounds like maximum impartiality. Ahem.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,810

    malcolmg said:

    There are quite a few really nasty right wingers on here, inferiority complex I think makes them so mean and odious.

    Ah: Self-awareness at last!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cDznpQVu0g

    a full post , albeit only 4 words, all in in English. A watershed moment.
  • Roger said:

    Roger said:

    then patronize him with the coup de gras

    Are you calling him podgy?
    Wasn't thinking!
    Truism: See above.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,312
    Indigo said:



    Indeed. I bet they know about words like "safe space", "trigger word", "austerity", "oppression", "exploitation", "privilege", "positionality" and assorted other trendy leftist crap though :(

    Errr...I'm as lefty as most here, I think you'd agree. I've no idea what "safe space, "trigger word" or "positionality" refer to in this context. Something to do with the argument about a Rhodes statue i Oxford, you say? Even on the left, most people don't obsess about these things as much as you think.
  • Cracking chart

    Freedom of movement. What % of each country's working age population is living in another EU country? https://t.co/4Ax7PLw96p

    Surely this can't be good news for those countries that have lost a large proportion of their younger people? Presumably, on the whole, the more educated and/or entrepreneurial people at that?

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,299
    Roger said:

    I have to say Cameron is a class act. If it wasn't for some of his predecessors I could almost vote for him. Perfect reponse to questions about Boris. A knowing smile and then patronize him with the coup de grace the juxtaposition of Galloway and Farage.

    He's almost up there with Blair. He and Nicola must be this decades outstanding politicians.

    Which is quite depressing given how second-rate he is. Made for today's generation I suppose - says simple things very slowly.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    chestnut said:

    10-11 for Hillary looks the bet now she's halted Bernie's rise.GOP conservatives still see Rubio is their best shot as they believe,mistakenly,he will hit the 35% target of the Hispanic vote.He won't because the main Spanish speaking media are in opposition to him.Neither Rubio nor Trump will land a blow-it's all down to the demographics.
    BTW.The 5-1 is still on offer for the 60-65% Remain band.Whatever,Boris Johnson does he will have backed the wrong horse.A cynical manipulator if he goes Leave,a coward of he goes Remain.He's still a lay for the Tory leadership.
    The risks of Leave will be the persuasive factor and there is always bias to the status-quo.Golden Sachs reckoned there would be a run on the pound if #Brexit which would reduce by 20%.This could lead to mortgages trebling and house prices crashing.A run on the pound could cause our feeble economy to completely collapse.

    A house price collapse?

    Much cheaper houses?

    Terrible news for people who want to buy.

    0% interest rates continue to push the over-valuation of property.
    Indeed effectively 0% rates are bending all kinds of asset prices way out of shape. I wonder if future economists will determine this 0% fetish has all been a hideous error, forcing millions to "over" save due to ultra low yields on just about anything, and thereby reducing demand. Just a thought. Has the old orthodoxy of lower interest rates stimulating demand (and vice versa) been found out to be wrong at the unprecedented levels we have been at for so long now?
  • FluffyThoughtsFluffyThoughts Posts: 2,420
    edited February 2016
    malcolmg said:

    a full post , albeit only 4 words, all in in English. A watershed moment.

    Count again; stop and think. Only then should you post.

    All messages must be comprehended...!
This discussion has been closed.