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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If this US YouGov polling is correct then the chances of a

SystemSystem Posts: 11,014
edited February 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If this US YouGov polling is correct then the chances of a President Trump must be negligible

YouGov US Polling on reaction to President Trump https://t.co/r522Q3GrQV pic.twitter.com/op4Q1IGQG5

Read the full story here


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Comments

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    God I hope so.

    I love visiting America.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,800
    I'm entertained at the prospect.
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    What would the figures for Hillary be, though?
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,243
    edited February 2016
    Sunil J. Prasannan is calling for a total and complete shut-down of YouGov polls from entering political discourse, until that polling company's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on!
  • Options
    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,806
    Although I beat the New Thread notification, if anyone knows about the Swiss situation atm, I'd be grateful:

    Slightly off topic, can't find a clear current status on Google over how Swiss efforts to restrict free-movement are going, just snippets that don't give a full picture:

    https://www.eda.admin.ch/missions/mission-eu-brussels/en/home/key-issues/free-movement-persons.html

    Other than the above, which doesn't seem totally up to date, I've seen something about a 2017 deadline on the current bilateral deals, and something about EU early in 2015 not wanting to enter negotiation on free-movement.

    Are Switzerland likely to withdraw from EFTA and renegotiate static trade deals?

    Any relevance to the options Britain are likely to have available post any Brexit?
  • Options

    God I hope so.

    I love visiting America.

    Just pretend you're a Jedi! Or a Sith Lord, if Your Exaltedness prefers!
  • Options
    Sean_F said:

    I'm entertained at the prospect.

    Feel free to tell me to eff off, but with around the half Tory parliamentary party backing Brexit, and with Dave moving on soon, but can you see yourself rejoining the Tory party in the next few years?
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    those questions are a bit leading, for me.
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    Pfft, adds up to 101, get your rounding right Yougov.
  • Options
    “49% I’m terrified” - Can’t believe how many pussies there are in the Land of the Great. :lol:
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,938

    What would the figures for Hillary be, though?

    I would imagine they would be scarily similar.

    Which is why it is increasingly likely that Bloomberg will run.

    (As an aside, I was talking to an American friend last week who opined that - if Bloomberg enters the race - that he won't do debates with Hillary and Trump, reckoning that the two of them ripping each other to pieces will be all the publicity he needs.)
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    tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,546
    Once he's got the nomination sown up, he'll pivot back to sanity / centre as fast as he can.
    How many of the 49% will take another look at him?
    My book hopes that a large number will - bright bright green on Trump
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited February 2016
    “49% I’m terrified” - These are obviously the people who has watched the US version of The Apprentice...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2u8OVK4qD4
  • Options
    The scariest Trump polling was around 20% of Trump supporters were upset the confederacy lost the civil war.
  • Options
    PR now on the DP
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753

    The scariest Trump polling was around 20% of Trump supporters were upset the confederacy lost the civil war.

    In South Carolina it was 30%. and 30% 'didn;t know'
  • Options
    They are discussing AV/electoral reform on the Daily Politics now.
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    PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    taffys said:

    The scariest Trump polling was around 20% of Trump supporters were upset the confederacy lost the civil war.

    In South Carolina it was 30%. and 30% 'didn;t know'
    Whether they were upset, or that they lost?
  • Options

    PR now on the DP

    Good luck on job hunting front.
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    John_M said:

    Pfft, adds up to 101, get your rounding right Yougov.

    Rounding very often produce totals of 101 or 99. This is inevitable.

  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,938
    Pro_Rata said:

    Although I beat the New Thread notification, if anyone knows about the Swiss situation atm, I'd be grateful:

    Slightly off topic, can't find a clear current status on Google over how Swiss efforts to restrict free-movement are going, just snippets that don't give a full picture:

    https://www.eda.admin.ch/missions/mission-eu-brussels/en/home/key-issues/free-movement-persons.html

    Other than the above, which doesn't seem totally up to date, I've seen something about a 2017 deadline on the current bilateral deals, and something about EU early in 2015 not wanting to enter negotiation on free-movement.

    Are Switzerland likely to withdraw from EFTA and renegotiate static trade deals?

    Any relevance to the options Britain are likely to have available post any Brexit?

    I think negotiations are ongoing. A treaty was signed between the EU and Switzerland, but instead of a single Yes/No referendum they had several on different parts of the deal, leaving things in a bit of legal limbo.

    My gut says that the EU will make some small concessions, and then the Swiss government will have a single referendum on the treaty.

    Effect on post-Brexit negotiations? Personally, I am all in favour of the free movement of labour. However, I also believe that governments should be allowed to discriminate against non-citizens; so I don't see any argument for benefits to be paid to non-citizens. It would also not be unreasonable for non-tax paying immigrants to have to buy NHS Health Insurance. (Although I realise that bilateral agreements between countries will have an effect here.)
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,800

    Sean_F said:

    I'm entertained at the prospect.

    Feel free to tell me to eff off, but with around the half Tory parliamentary party backing Brexit, and with Dave moving on soon, but can you see yourself rejoining the Tory party in the next few years?
    It's certainly a possibility.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,906
    Ohio: Trump 44 Clinton 42 latest poll !
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,800

    The scariest Trump polling was around 20% of Trump supporters were upset the confederacy lost the civil war.

    I'm surprised the number isn't higher.
  • Options
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    I'm entertained at the prospect.

    Feel free to tell me to eff off, but with around the half Tory parliamentary party backing Brexit, and with Dave moving on soon, but can you see yourself rejoining the Tory party in the next few years?
    It's certainly a possibility.
    Thanks.
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    One the other hand, the poll yesterday said 61% wanted someone from outside government, what are the alternatives ?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,906
    Pennsylvania could be a key state methinks.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,938
    Indigo said:

    One the other hand, the poll yesterday said 61% wanted someone from outside government, what are the alternatives ?

    Michael Bloomberg is the alternative.

    In 2008, Obama spent $750m. In 2012, it was $730m.

    Bloomberg will spend $1bn of his own money. (Unlike Donald Trump, Michael Bloomberg is actually rich.) He will raise another $1bn from a collection of business friendly Republicans and Democrats. He will likely outspend the combined Hillary and Trump campaigns, perhaps by 50%.
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Indigo said:

    One the other hand, the poll yesterday said 61% wanted someone from outside government, what are the alternatives ?

    I think if someone wants an outsider but is terrified of Trump they are not voting for Trump. People are so terror-averse these days.
  • Options

    PR now on the DP

    Good luck on job hunting front.
    Thanks TSE
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Indigo said:

    One the other hand, the poll yesterday said 61% wanted someone from outside government, what are the alternatives ?

    I am stunned that after the shenanigans last year anyone pays any attention to the polls. We know that the polling companies make up, sorry adjust, the numbers and at least one will not a publish a poll that does not fit their desired narrative.
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    rcs1000 said:

    Indigo said:

    One the other hand, the poll yesterday said 61% wanted someone from outside government, what are the alternatives ?

    Michael Bloomberg is the alternative.

    In 2008, Obama spent $750m. In 2012, it was $730m.

    Bloomberg will spend $1bn of his own money. (Unlike Donald Trump, Michael Bloomberg is actually rich.) He will raise another $1bn from a collection of business friendly Republicans and Democrats. He will likely outspend the combined Hillary and Trump campaigns, perhaps by 50%.
    If he wanted to stand, when is the latest date he can actually declare?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,906
    rcs1000 said:

    Indigo said:

    One the other hand, the poll yesterday said 61% wanted someone from outside government, what are the alternatives ?

    Michael Bloomberg is the alternative.

    In 2008, Obama spent $750m. In 2012, it was $730m.

    Bloomberg will spend $1bn of his own money. (Unlike Donald Trump, Michael Bloomberg is actually rich.) He will raise another $1bn from a collection of business friendly Republicans and Democrats. He will likely outspend the combined Hillary and Trump campaigns, perhaps by 50%.
    I thought the plan was to only run if Bernie was looking like he could win as of super Tuesday. Since HRC seems to be holding up, perhaps less likely ?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,980
    Actually this poll suggests Hillary is guaranteed close to 50% against Trump but Trump could also achieve close to 50% making it neck and neck
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    If being the key word. Would anyone stake much on the back of these findings?
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited February 2016
    Victims' solicitor calls report 'an expensive whitewash'

    A lawyer who is representing 168 victims of Jimmy Savile and Stuart Hall said they will feel let down by the Dame Janet Smith report and will see it as "an expensive whitewash".

    "It is unfortunate that Dame Janet had no power to compel senior managers to give evidence, giving the impression that the whole picture of who knew what has not been revealed. With 117 witnesses giving evidence of concerns and rumours, it's implausible to suggest that this did not reach the upper echelons of the BBC."
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    Whats interesting about that US apprentice clip is the two people Trump takes advice from. Alan Sugar has two very seasoned advisers who go toe to toe with him when they disagree. Trump picks two people much more junior to him who just nod and give platitudes. Think Trump will pick a yes man for VP. Maybe someone from his own organisation.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,906

    If being the key word. Would anyone stake much on the back of these findings?

    Dunno, I'm not laying off POTUS Trump on the back of this.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,980
    edited February 2016
    Sean_F said:

    The scariest Trump polling was around 20% of Trump supporters were upset the confederacy lost the civil war.

    I'm surprised the number isn't higher.
    In South Carolina PPP had most Trump supporters thinking the South should have won the Civil War although Republicans as a whole narrowly thought the North should have won
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    Ohio: Trump 44 Clinton 42 latest poll !

    Oh dear God.
  • Options
    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,806
    rcs1000 said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Although I beat the New Thread notification, if anyone knows about the Swiss situation atm, I'd be grateful:

    Slightly off topic, can't find a clear current status on Google over how Swiss efforts to restrict free-movement are going, just snippets that don't give a full picture:

    https://www.eda.admin.ch/missions/mission-eu-brussels/en/home/key-issues/free-movement-persons.html

    Other than the above, which doesn't seem totally up to date, I've seen something about a 2017 deadline on the current bilateral deals, and something about EU early in 2015 not wanting to enter negotiation on free-movement.

    Are Switzerland likely to withdraw from EFTA and renegotiate static trade deals?

    Any relevance to the options Britain are likely to have available post any Brexit?

    I think negotiations are ongoing. A treaty was signed between the EU and Switzerland, but instead of a single Yes/No referendum they had several on different parts of the deal, leaving things in a bit of legal limbo.

    My gut says that the EU will make some small concessions, and then the Swiss government will have a single referendum on the treaty.

    Effect on post-Brexit negotiations? Personally, I am all in favour of the free movement of labour. However, I also believe that governments should be allowed to discriminate against non-citizens; so I don't see any argument for benefits to be paid to non-citizens. It would also not be unreasonable for non-tax paying immigrants to have to buy NHS Health Insurance. (Although I realise that bilateral agreements between countries will have an effect here.)
    Thanks - Swiss-EU relations seem best summed up by the 'It's complicated' relationship status, with whatever is going on to resolve very much behind closed doors and shrouded in mystery. I don't think UK-EU relations have ever been anywhere near that murky.
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    Bloomberg would hand the election to Trump, who is hos opposite. Left wing economically and right wing socially.
  • Options
    tpfkar said:

    Once he's got the nomination sown up, he'll pivot back to sanity / centre as fast as he can.
    How many of the 49% will take another look at him?
    My book hopes that a large number will - bright bright green on Trump

    A Trump presidency would surely run on the basis of how he feels each morning when he wakes up, A good, mellow night's sleep would be fine. But a tricky night might be the prelude to more irrational days.

  • Options

    The scariest Trump polling was around 20% of Trump supporters were upset the confederacy lost the civil war.

    I.e. 20% of people don't understand one of the defining moments in their country's history

    sounds about right
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    HYUFD said:

    Actually this poll suggests Hillary is guaranteed close to 50% against Trump but Trump could also achieve close to 50% making it neck and neck

    Only he got almost 100% of the people not "terrified" of him! But I not sure this poll can be taken seriously. The options seem leading.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,960

    PR now on the DP

    Good luck on job hunting front.
    Agree with that. Son-in-law was made redundant, albeit with an excellent package, two months ago, and although he’s looking hard, doesn’t seem to be getting very far.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,906

    Pulpstar said:

    Ohio: Trump 44 Clinton 42 latest poll !

    Oh dear God.
    The worst part for Clinton is she gets slaughtered by Kasich in a 14 pt margin. When Trump tacks to the centre for the General, his number rises I reckon.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,938
    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Indigo said:

    One the other hand, the poll yesterday said 61% wanted someone from outside government, what are the alternatives ?

    Michael Bloomberg is the alternative.

    In 2008, Obama spent $750m. In 2012, it was $730m.

    Bloomberg will spend $1bn of his own money. (Unlike Donald Trump, Michael Bloomberg is actually rich.) He will raise another $1bn from a collection of business friendly Republicans and Democrats. He will likely outspend the combined Hillary and Trump campaigns, perhaps by 50%.
    I thought the plan was to only run if Bernie was looking like he could win as of super Tuesday. Since HRC seems to be holding up, perhaps less likely ?
    There's half a floor at 731 Lexington that houses Bloomberg's campaign team. New people are joining every day, and there is momentum building.

    I would anticipate an announcement - if he's going to run - by mid-March; i.e. the point at which we know that the Donald is the Republican nominee.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited February 2016
    Saracens forward Maro Itoje will make his first start for England in the Six Nations game against Ireland at Twickenham on Saturday.

    Was loving everything about this decision as he looked very impressive a couple of week ago, until I found out he is reading Politics at uni...
  • Options
    Whilst I think that (Bloomberg aside), Hillary would beat Trump, it's not a certainty by any means. In the match-up polling for Hillary vs Trump, she's ahead, but not by a large margin:

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html

    In an actual contest, both sides would have plenty of mud to throw at each other, and it's hard to say which would be more damaged.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,906
    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Indigo said:

    One the other hand, the poll yesterday said 61% wanted someone from outside government, what are the alternatives ?

    Michael Bloomberg is the alternative.

    In 2008, Obama spent $750m. In 2012, it was $730m.

    Bloomberg will spend $1bn of his own money. (Unlike Donald Trump, Michael Bloomberg is actually rich.) He will raise another $1bn from a collection of business friendly Republicans and Democrats. He will likely outspend the combined Hillary and Trump campaigns, perhaps by 50%.
    I thought the plan was to only run if Bernie was looking like he could win as of super Tuesday. Since HRC seems to be holding up, perhaps less likely ?
    There's half a floor at 731 Lexington that houses Bloomberg's campaign team. New people are joining every day, and there is momentum building.

    I would anticipate an announcement - if he's going to run - by mid-March; i.e. the point at which we know that the Donald is the Republican nominee.
    OK ! I will recover to zero in POTUS.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,938

    Bloomberg would hand the election to Trump, who is hos opposite. Left wing economically and right wing socially.

    Internal polling shows him taking votes equally from Democrats and Republicans.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,717
    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Indigo said:

    One the other hand, the poll yesterday said 61% wanted someone from outside government, what are the alternatives ?

    Michael Bloomberg is the alternative.

    In 2008, Obama spent $750m. In 2012, it was $730m.

    Bloomberg will spend $1bn of his own money. (Unlike Donald Trump, Michael Bloomberg is actually rich.) He will raise another $1bn from a collection of business friendly Republicans and Democrats. He will likely outspend the combined Hillary and Trump campaigns, perhaps by 50%.
    I thought the plan was to only run if Bernie was looking like he could win as of super Tuesday. Since HRC seems to be holding up, perhaps less likely ?
    A shame, sounds like it would be fun if he ran (although even as rich as he is, it seems a lot of money to just throw away like that).
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,800

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    I'm entertained at the prospect.

    Feel free to tell me to eff off, but with around the half Tory parliamentary party backing Brexit, and with Dave moving on soon, but can you see yourself rejoining the Tory party in the next few years?
    It's certainly a possibility.
    Thanks.
    I've been pleasantly surprised by how many Conservative MPs have backed Brexit. I thought it would be 70-80.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited February 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    What would the figures for Hillary be, though?

    I would imagine they would be scarily similar.

    Which is why it is increasingly likely that Bloomberg will run.

    (As an aside, I was talking to an American friend last week who opined that - if Bloomberg enters the race - that he won't do debates with Hillary and Trump, reckoning that the two of them ripping each other to pieces will be all the publicity he needs.)
    FWIW my wife and M-i-L (both hard core republicans) are struggling with the idea that they might have to vote Clinton in the election. Voting is a duty, but Trump is the only person in the world they hate more than the Clinton family...
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Oh ho

    BBC
    Greece recalls ambassador from Austria amid sharp EU divisions over migrant crisis https://t.co/Or10Q1syic
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,800
    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    The scariest Trump polling was around 20% of Trump supporters were upset the confederacy lost the civil war.

    I'm surprised the number isn't higher.
    In South Carolina PPP had most Trump supporters thinking the South should have won the Civil War although Republicans as a whole narrowly thought the North should have won
    I'm not surprised by white Southerners thinking the South should have won. The surprise comes with non-Southerners thinking the South should have won.
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Whats interesting about that US apprentice clip is the two people Trump takes advice from. Alan Sugar has two very seasoned advisers who go toe to toe with him when they disagree. Trump picks two people much more junior to him who just nod and give platitudes. Think Trump will pick a yes man for VP. Maybe someone from his own organisation.

    Nick Hewer, the man Labour should have had for leader instead of the jihadist!
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,938
    Pro_Rata said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Although I beat the New Thread notification, if anyone knows about the Swiss situation atm, I'd be grateful:

    Slightly off topic, can't find a clear current status on Google over how Swiss efforts to restrict free-movement are going, just snippets that don't give a full picture:

    https://www.eda.admin.ch/missions/mission-eu-brussels/en/home/key-issues/free-movement-persons.html

    Other than the above, which doesn't seem totally up to date, I've seen something about a 2017 deadline on the current bilateral deals, and something about EU early in 2015 not wanting to enter negotiation on free-movement.

    Are Switzerland likely to withdraw from EFTA and renegotiate static trade deals?

    Any relevance to the options Britain are likely to have available post any Brexit?

    I think negotiations are ongoing. A treaty was signed between the EU and Switzerland, but instead of a single Yes/No referendum they had several on different parts of the deal, leaving things in a bit of legal limbo.

    My gut says that the EU will make some small concessions, and then the Swiss government will have a single referendum on the treaty.

    Effect on post-Brexit negotiations? Personally, I am all in favour of the free movement of labour. However, I also believe that governments should be allowed to discriminate against non-citizens; so I don't see any argument for benefits to be paid to non-citizens. It would also not be unreasonable for non-tax paying immigrants to have to buy NHS Health Insurance. (Although I realise that bilateral agreements between countries will have an effect here.)
    Thanks - Swiss-EU relations seem best summed up by the 'It's complicated' relationship status, with whatever is going on to resolve very much behind closed doors and shrouded in mystery. I don't think UK-EU relations have ever been anywhere near that murky.
    There's also a fair bit of dishonesty in how the Swiss pay their EU dues. They allow the EU to collect customs duty on their behalf for goods that enter through Rotterdam, Hamburg, etc. This (sizeable) sum is never mentioned when they talk about the cost of accessing the single market.
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Fivethirtyeight has a useful tool which allows you to predict swings for each demographic group, and then produces estimated state-by-state results.

    http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-swing-the-election/

    In a Clinton v Trump battle, I predict Trump performing significantly better than Romney with non-college-educated whites, Clinton performing a fair bit better than Obama 2012 with Hispanics, Clinton doing a bit worse than Obama 2012 with blacks, college-educated whites and Asians about the same as 2012.

    All in all, it produces a ridiculously tight simulation of Clinton having 274 Electoral College votes to Trump's 264 (49.2% to 49.0% in the popular vote). Trump would become the first Republican since the 1980s to win Wisconsin and Pennsylvania (plus would also re-gain Ohio, Iowa and New Hampshire), while Clinton would just scrape the overall win by clinging onto Virginia and Florida by 0.5% in each state.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,980
    Pulpstar said:

    Ohio: Trump 44 Clinton 42 latest poll !

    Most Ohio polls still have Hillary ahead but it will be tight. If she wins Nevada and Virginia she could win without Ohio
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    edited February 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Ohio: Trump 44 Clinton 42 latest poll !

    Oh dear God.
    The worst part for Clinton is she gets slaughtered by Kasich in a 14 pt margin. When Trump tacks to the centre for the General, his number rises I reckon.
    What I wonder about Trump is whether he can pivot to the centre convincingly. Also, whether he can pass the reassuringly-not-insane test, as Reagan did so well.

    In short, how far to continue to back him.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,800

    Whilst I think that (Bloomberg aside), Hillary would beat Trump, it's not a certainty by any means. In the match-up polling for Hillary vs Trump, she's ahead, but not by a large margin:

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html

    In an actual contest, both sides would have plenty of mud to throw at each other, and it's hard to say which would be more damaged.

    The interesting thing is that so far, Trump has proved to be an outstandingly good campaigner, whereas Clinton has proved to be a very poor one.
  • Options
    Sean_F said:

    The scariest Trump polling was around 20% of Trump supporters were upset the confederacy lost the civil war.

    I'm surprised the number isn't higher.
    At the time of the civil war it was the Democrats who were pro slavery. Having to cohabit with 'war democrats' was one of Lincoln's biggest problems. His other one was the militant abolitionists in his own party.

    Some of the laughable jokers on this site think that swanning around as a leader is easy.
  • Options
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    I'm entertained at the prospect.

    Feel free to tell me to eff off, but with around the half Tory parliamentary party backing Brexit, and with Dave moving on soon, but can you see yourself rejoining the Tory party in the next few years?
    It's certainly a possibility.
    Thanks.
    I've been pleasantly surprised by how many Conservative MPs have backed Brexit. I thought it would be 70-80.
    Surprised me too.

    I know I'm tempting fate, but I'm also surprised how civilised the debate has been in the Tory party, so far.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,980
    Danny565 said:

    Fivethirtyeight has a useful tool which allows you to predict swings for each demographic group, and then produces estimated state-by-state results.

    http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-swing-the-election/

    In a Clinton v Trump battle, I predict Trump performing significantly better than Romney with non-college-educated whites, Clinton performing a fair bit better than Obama 2012 with Hispanics, Clinton doing a bit worse than Obama 2012 with blacks, college-educated whites and Asians about the same as 2012.

    All in all, it produces a ridiculously tight simulation of Clinton having 274 Electoral College votes to Trump's 264 (49.2% to 49.0% in the popular vote). Trump would become the first Republican since the 1980s to win Wisconsin and Pennsylvania (plus would also re-gain Ohio, Iowa and New Hampshire), while Clinton would just scrape the overall win by clinging onto Virginia and Florida by 0.5% in each state.

    Agree it will be as tight as Nixon v Humphrey in 1968 in the popular vote at least maybe even as tight as Nixon v JFK or Bush v Gore
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Sean_F said:

    Whilst I think that (Bloomberg aside), Hillary would beat Trump, it's not a certainty by any means. In the match-up polling for Hillary vs Trump, she's ahead, but not by a large margin:

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html

    In an actual contest, both sides would have plenty of mud to throw at each other, and it's hard to say which would be more damaged.

    The interesting thing is that so far, Trump has proved to be an outstandingly good campaigner, whereas Clinton has proved to be a very poor one.
    That's true. At least, Trump has been excellent at campaigning in the Republican primary.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,906
    Sean_F said:

    Whilst I think that (Bloomberg aside), Hillary would beat Trump, it's not a certainty by any means. In the match-up polling for Hillary vs Trump, she's ahead, but not by a large margin:

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html

    In an actual contest, both sides would have plenty of mud to throw at each other, and it's hard to say which would be more damaged.

    The interesting thing is that so far, Trump has proved to be an outstandingly good campaigner, whereas Clinton has proved to be a very poor one.
    How many Bernie fans will bother, having seen their hopes and dreams smashed by the HRC machine ?
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,183
    FTP:

    Re ID cards: over my dead body. @MorrisDancer: they are indeed a rancid idea.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the government tried to introduce them here via the EU under some Justice/Home Affairs Directive. They are of course widespread in Continental Europe and ever more integration is likely to allow those in charge to spread them to here on the grounds of security or some such.

    Re @WeeJonnie's concern re trial by jury, I raised this point several times several threads ago. As legal systems become more integrated, particularly under the Justice heading, I do have a very considerable worry that many aspects of our criminal law system will be chipped away and lost
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,183
    @CasinoRoyale: Vanilla mail for you.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,800

    Oh ho

    BBC
    Greece recalls ambassador from Austria amid sharp EU divisions over migrant crisis https://t.co/Or10Q1syic

    Did Greece really think that other European nations would be content for them to wave huge numbers of people North?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,980
    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    The scariest Trump polling was around 20% of Trump supporters were upset the confederacy lost the civil war.

    I'm surprised the number isn't higher.
    In South Carolina PPP had most Trump supporters thinking the South should have won the Civil War although Republicans as a whole narrowly thought the North should have won
    I'm not surprised by white Southerners thinking the South should have won. The surprise comes with non-Southerners thinking the South should have won.
    For ideological conservatives maybe not such a surprise
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited February 2016

    tpfkar said:

    Once he's got the nomination sown up, he'll pivot back to sanity / centre as fast as he can.
    How many of the 49% will take another look at him?
    My book hopes that a large number will - bright bright green on Trump

    A Trump presidency would surely run on the basis of how he feels each morning when he wakes up, A good, mellow night's sleep would be fine. But a tricky night might be the prelude to more irrational days.

    Where as with other presidents one could imagine the same if they didn't get laid the night before ;) That is why they have checks and balances all thought the system.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,960

    Saracens forward Maro Itoje will make his first start for England in the Six Nations game against Ireland at Twickenham on Saturday.

    Was loving everything about this decision as he looked very impressive a couple of week ago, until I found out he is reading Politics at uni...

    That’s not equivalent to the pld Land Economy, is it?
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,800
    Indigo said:

    tpfkar said:

    Once he's got the nomination sown up, he'll pivot back to sanity / centre as fast as he can.
    How many of the 49% will take another look at him?
    My book hopes that a large number will - bright bright green on Trump

    A Trump presidency would surely run on the basis of how he feels each morning when he wakes up, A good, mellow night's sleep would be fine. But a tricky night might be the prelude to more irrational days.

    Where as with other presidents one could imagine the same if they didn't get laid the night before ;) That is why they have checks and balances all thought the system.
    JFK told Macmillan that he got a headache if he didn't have sex every day.
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Cyclefree said:

    FTP:

    Re ID cards: over my dead body. @MorrisDancer: they are indeed a rancid idea.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the government tried to introduce them here via the EU under some Justice/Home Affairs Directive. They are of course widespread in Continental Europe and ever more integration is likely to allow those in charge to spread them to here on the grounds of security or some such.

    Re @WeeJonnie's concern re trial by jury, I raised this point several times several threads ago. As legal systems become more integrated, particularly under the Justice heading, I do have a very considerable worry that many aspects of our criminal law system will be chipped away and lost

    I think trial by jury would be a red line for public opinion here. IDs cards would not (sadly - I agree with you and Morris Dancer about them).
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737

    The scariest Trump polling was around 20% of Trump supporters were upset the confederacy lost the civil war.

    20% also believed the slaves should not have been freed, and 17% "weren't sure"...
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Bwahaha
    Sean_F said:

    Indigo said:

    tpfkar said:

    Once he's got the nomination sown up, he'll pivot back to sanity / centre as fast as he can.
    How many of the 49% will take another look at him?
    My book hopes that a large number will - bright bright green on Trump

    A Trump presidency would surely run on the basis of how he feels each morning when he wakes up, A good, mellow night's sleep would be fine. But a tricky night might be the prelude to more irrational days.

    Where as with other presidents one could imagine the same if they didn't get laid the night before ;) That is why they have checks and balances all thought the system.
    JFK told Macmillan that he got a headache if he didn't have sex every day.
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Wanderer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Ohio: Trump 44 Clinton 42 latest poll !

    Oh dear God.
    The worst part for Clinton is she gets slaughtered by Kasich in a 14 pt margin. When Trump tacks to the centre for the General, his number rises I reckon.
    What I wonder about Trump is whether he can pivot to the centre convincingly. Also, whether he can pass the reassuringly-not-insane test, as Reagan did so well.

    In short, how far to continue to back him.
    He did sound surprising measured and sane on that TV interview that was posted on here yesterday. I think he is practising for his tack to the centre.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095

    “49% I’m terrified” - Can’t believe how many pussies there are in the Land of the Great. :lol:

    Knowing Yanks, half of those probably meant it in the sense of "I'm terrified = he'd be terrific!"
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    NormNorm Posts: 1,251

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    I'm entertained at the prospect.

    Feel free to tell me to eff off, but with around the half Tory parliamentary party backing Brexit, and with Dave moving on soon, but can you see yourself rejoining the Tory party in the next few years?
    It's certainly a possibility.
    Thanks.
    I've been pleasantly surprised by how many Conservative MPs have backed Brexit. I thought it would be 70-80.
    Surprised me too.

    I know I'm tempting fate, but I'm also surprised how civilised the debate has been in the Tory party, so far.
    I guess that might continue through to the Budget and up to the May elections. After a pause to recoup if there's still only 3 points in it come mid May that might change dramatically. I also expect Boris once the burdens of Mayoral office are no more to seriously crank up his game.
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Sean_F said:

    Oh ho

    BBC
    Greece recalls ambassador from Austria amid sharp EU divisions over migrant crisis https://t.co/Or10Q1syic

    Did Greece really think that other European nations would be content for them to wave huge numbers of people North?
    Pfft. Europe deserve all they get. Years of banging on about no border-checks and open borders and then look all surprised when thousands of migrants stream north unchecked. The Greeks are only (gleefully) following the (idiotically dangerous) rules.

    You can either have openness, or you can have security. Trying to pretend you can have both is a dangerous fantasy.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,800
    RodCrosby said:

    The scariest Trump polling was around 20% of Trump supporters were upset the confederacy lost the civil war.

    20% also believed the slaves should not have been freed, and 17% "weren't sure"...
    That's very funny.
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    Oh ho

    BBC
    Greece recalls ambassador from Austria amid sharp EU divisions over migrant crisis https://t.co/Or10Q1syic

    Madness? This is SPARTA!
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Ohio: Trump 44 Clinton 42 latest poll !

    Most Ohio polls still have Hillary ahead but it will be tight. If she wins Nevada and Virginia she could win without Ohio
    If Kasich stumps for Trump, that may well sway it for him in Ohio.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,800
    WRT BMG, among those Certain/Likely to Vote it's Leave 44%, Remain 42%, among those unsure, unlikely, or certain not to vote it's Remain 39% to Leave 25%.
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Ohio: Trump 44 Clinton 42 latest poll !

    Most Ohio polls still have Hillary ahead but it will be tight. If she wins Nevada and Virginia she could win without Ohio
    If Kasich stumps for Trump, that may well sway it for him in Ohio.
    Is Trump making eyes at Kasich for VP ?
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    David Owen backs Brexit? Didn't he leave Labour in large part because it was taken over by the left who wanted to leave EU?
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Indigo said:

    Wanderer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Ohio: Trump 44 Clinton 42 latest poll !

    Oh dear God.
    The worst part for Clinton is she gets slaughtered by Kasich in a 14 pt margin. When Trump tacks to the centre for the General, his number rises I reckon.
    What I wonder about Trump is whether he can pivot to the centre convincingly. Also, whether he can pass the reassuringly-not-insane test, as Reagan did so well.

    In short, how far to continue to back him.
    He did sound surprising measured and sane on that TV interview that was posted on here yesterday. I think he is practising for his tack to the centre.
    I haven't seen that. I'll check it out.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    Sean_F said:

    Indigo said:

    tpfkar said:

    Once he's got the nomination sown up, he'll pivot back to sanity / centre as fast as he can.
    How many of the 49% will take another look at him?
    My book hopes that a large number will - bright bright green on Trump

    A Trump presidency would surely run on the basis of how he feels each morning when he wakes up, A good, mellow night's sleep would be fine. But a tricky night might be the prelude to more irrational days.

    Where as with other presidents one could imagine the same if they didn't get laid the night before ;) That is why they have checks and balances all thought the system.
    JFK told Macmillan that he got a headache if he didn't have sex every day.
    Does history record if that chat-up line was enough to break down Macmillan's defences?
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Sean_F said:

    RodCrosby said:

    The scariest Trump polling was around 20% of Trump supporters were upset the confederacy lost the civil war.

    20% also believed the slaves should not have been freed, and 17% "weren't sure"...
    That's very funny.
    Not sure if funny is the word.

    The sad thing is many of these people probably do know their history, they do know what the South was, and yet they still support it over the union.

    Race relations in the US appear to be going sharply backwards.
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    The problem for the Democrats is that, for all the (valid) talk of how more ethnically diverse the US is becoming, the crucial swing states for now still have higher than average numbers of the white working-class. In all of Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Minnesota, the WWC population is above the national average.

    The only major swing states with a lower-than-average WWC population are Florida and Virginia.

    In particular, even if the Hispanics swing more heavily to the Democrats, the problem is they are quite "inefficiently distributed" in terms of the Electoral College: two of the biggest Hispanic populations are in California and Texas, but that's no good in terms of getting extra Electoral College votes since the former is already a lock for the Democrats and the latter is safe for the Republicans.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Identity Politics isn't helping one jot.
    taffys said:

    Sean_F said:

    RodCrosby said:

    The scariest Trump polling was around 20% of Trump supporters were upset the confederacy lost the civil war.

    20% also believed the slaves should not have been freed, and 17% "weren't sure"...
    That's very funny.
    Not sure if funny is the word.

    The sad thing is many of these people probably do know their history, they do know what the South was, and yet they still support it over the union.

    Race relations in the US appear to be going sharply backwards.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    SkyNews
    .@JeremyCorbyn says @David_Cameron is jealous of his “Holloway Road” style https://t.co/ZmeYA3GHtu

    Bwahaha
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    taffys said:

    Sean_F said:

    RodCrosby said:

    The scariest Trump polling was around 20% of Trump supporters were upset the confederacy lost the civil war.

    20% also believed the slaves should not have been freed, and 17% "weren't sure"...
    That's very funny.
    Not sure if funny is the word.

    The sad thing is many of these people probably do know their history, they do know what the South was, and yet they still support it over the union.

    Race relations in the US appear to be going sharply backwards.
    I think "weren't sure" is funny. How can you not be sure ffs?
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited February 2016
    ** Betting Post **

    Of more immediate interest, the Irish GE is tomorrow. There has been a flurry of opinion polls in the last few days, showing a fairly consistent picture and one which hasn't changed very much over the past few weeks. There's precious little sign of Labour crawling back up to the point at which they might start winning a reasonable number of seats, and not much enthusiasm for Fine Gael's Cameron-like 'Don't wreck the recovery' message either.

    Looking at the polls and seat forecasts, I'm expecting seat totals along these lines (79 needed for a majority):

    Fine Gael 57, Fianna Fáil 36, Sinn Féin 23, Labour 6, Other/Indies 36

    The bookies have an FG/FF coalition as odds-on favourite because that's the only plausible-looking two-party combination with enough seats for a majority, but I continue to think this ignores the political reality. Neither party wants to work with the other, and neither wants Sinn Féin to become the official opposition and thus be in pole position to hoover up anti-government sentiment. It doesn't look at though Labour has much of a chance of getting enough seats to be a coalition partner for FG. So FG minority, with implicit FF support but not in a coalition, looks to me the most likely option still.

    I've just backed the following:

    FG Minority 6/1 Ladbrokes
    FG over 52.5 5/6 Ladbrokes
    Lab under 8.5 5/6 Paddy

    Two other forecasts here:

    http://www.irishelectionstats.com/

    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/ivan-yates/my-predictions-who-will-make-it-to-the-dil-and-whose-heads-will-roll-34484333.html

    DYOR etc!
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    taffys said:

    Sean_F said:

    RodCrosby said:

    The scariest Trump polling was around 20% of Trump supporters were upset the confederacy lost the civil war.

    20% also believed the slaves should not have been freed, and 17% "weren't sure"...
    That's very funny.
    Not sure if funny is the word.

    The sad thing is many of these people probably do know their history, they do know what the South was, and yet they still support it over the union.

    Race relations in the US appear to be going sharply backwards.
    It's interesting that eight years of a black President don't seem to have done anything to reduce race as an issue in the US.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,717

    SkyNews
    .@JeremyCorbyn says @David_Cameron is jealous of his “Holloway Road” style https://t.co/ZmeYA3GHtu

    Bwahaha

    Smart way to play it.
This discussion has been closed.