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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » After the latest Trump-Cruz blow-up David Herdson suggests

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited March 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » After the latest Trump-Cruz blow-up David Herdson suggests a 50/1 punt on Kasich

It’s probably all over: the sex scandal now engulfing Ted Cruz means that Donald Trump is highly likely to be the Republicans’ nominee for president. Highly likely but not certain.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,932
    edited March 2016
    I doubt Cruz will pull out and I also doubt Kasich will win another state let alone get sufficient delegates to seriously challenge Trump for the nomination, which would effectively require him to win every remaining state. He would have been the best general election candidate but his chance has passed. Goodnight
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Police have dropped a race-hate charge against a man who allegedly tweeted about confronting a Muslim woman over the Brussels terror attacks.

    Matthew Doyle, 46, of south Croydon, was charged on Friday morning under Section 19 of the Public Order Act.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-35898029
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737

    Police have dropped a race-hate charge against a man who allegedly tweeted about confronting a Muslim woman over the Brussels terror attacks.

    Matthew Doyle, 46, of south Croydon, was charged on Friday morning under Section 19 of the Public Order Act.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-35898029

    Now sue their arses...
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,597
    FPT

    If this is true, then this assists PB.com. GBP/USD varies naturally during the day, so let's do it over a day. Take a note of GBP/USD at 9pm the day before voting day. Take a note of GBP/USD at 9pm on voting day itself. If GBP has fallen, LEAVE is ahead. If it has risen, REMAIN is ahead.

    If SPIN follows GE practice, SPIN will shut down briefly at about 9:45pm before coming back up at about 10:15pm with post-exit poll odds. So we'll have a 45-minute window between 9pm and 9:45pm to pile in using GBP/USD as a proxy indicator.

    Conversely of course, we could just bug John Curtice's phone... :)

    Basically a private EURef exit poll could help The City make squillions

    h ttps://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/713466019692613632

  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,954
    It's "lyin' Ted", with an apostrophe. Just saying ;)
  • shiney2shiney2 Posts: 672
    RodCrosby said:

    Police have dropped a race-hate charge against a man who allegedly tweeted about confronting a Muslim woman over the Brussels terror attacks.

    Matthew Doyle, 46, of south Croydon, was charged on Friday morning under Section 19 of the Public Order Act.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-35898029

    Now sue their arses...

    I sure hope so. Croydon pol need their collective nose publically tweaked.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    edited March 2016
    Thanks for this article David. I've been scratching my head over this question all evening (OK, in between eating and drinking to excess).

    It's counterintuitive but it does seem that it could be bad for Trump if Cruz self-destructs. It would force Never Trump to rally around Kasich and Kasich is, potentially, a more formidable opponent than Cruz. Unlike Cruz, he polls far better against Hillary than Trump and he is someone the Republican establishment wouldn't have to hold its nose to support.

    As others have said, there is a world of difference between Trump being, say, 20 delegates short and him being 100 short. In the latter case it will be very hard for him to claim that he has "really" won and to paint anyone else as a "loser". He'd be a loser himself.

    I think Kasich is value if Cruz pull outs or dwindles into an irrelevance. Thing is, how likely is that part of the deal? Cruz could well fend this off.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    shiney2 said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Police have dropped a race-hate charge against a man who allegedly tweeted about confronting a Muslim woman over the Brussels terror attacks.

    Matthew Doyle, 46, of south Croydon, was charged on Friday morning under Section 19 of the Public Order Act.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-35898029

    Now sue their arses...

    I sure hope so. Croydon pol need their collective nose publically tweaked.
    The smart people should just abandon London and parts of the South-East and let the coming civil war play out. If ISIS don't get you, the multiculturist gestapo will.

    Head north, away from the deadly virus.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Neither Trump nor Cruz fit to be President. What a shocking state the Republicans are in at the moment.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,140
    edited March 2016
    50/1 sounds like a big return but this is several unlikely things piled on top of each other.

    Basically where we're heading is that Trump should get enough votes to win the thing outright, and even if he comes up a bit short he only has to swing a small proportion of the swingable delegates, some of whom will be amenable to the argument that he got the most votes.

    If he somehow manages to lose the first ballot then he's still the overwhelming favourite for the next one, and failing that Cruz is next in line and still controls most of the non-Trump delegates, and if they don't go for Cruz it seems more likely they'd pick somebody who didn't run than somebody who ran and didn't get many votes.

    So it could happen but I reckon it's more like 100/1.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,954
    surbiton said:

    Neither Trump nor Cruz fit to be President. What a shocking state the Republicans are in at the moment.

    They may as well both just pack it in after that damning assessment.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    surbiton said:

    Neither Trump nor Cruz fit to be President. What a shocking state the Republicans are in at the moment.

    Well at least Trump is eligible, and does indeed seem physically fitter than the rest of the remaining field.

    Fitter and way smarter, as well as older, than Reagan too...
  • Betting on Kasich has always been about getting the very best odds, preferably on an exchange, so that one is in a position to trade out profitably if and when these shorten.
    His odds with Betfair are currently 44, the equivalent of 41/1 after their 5% commission charges, which compares with the best bookie's odds of 40/1 from BETFRED, while the likes of Wm. Hill have him at a measly 20/1.
    Having backed Kasich at over 100/1,these odds at this stage of the game just aren't big enough for me. Certainly he possesses most of the attributes to be considered as serious POTUS material, but in this game timing and strategy are everything and these are the two aspects he sadly got wrong in the earlier stages of the contest ...... so this one's not for me.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,563
    A Washington Times writer has confirmed that some of the Cruz allegations are accurate:

    http://hollywoodlife.com/2016/03/25/reporter-confirms-ted-cruz-cheating-scandal-washington-times-drew-johnson/
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,841
    Sun rapped on the knuckles over IS poll:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35903066
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,090
    surbiton said:

    Neither Trump nor Cruz fit to be President. What a shocking state the Republicans are in at the moment.

    Why just the Republicans? Hilary and Sanders are at least as bad. It's American politics generally that is in a dire state. There are some hopeful signs of a younger generation coming through for 2020, but much damage will have been done by then.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,090

    A Washington Times writer has confirmed that some of the Cruz allegations are accurate:

    http://hollywoodlife.com/2016/03/25/reporter-confirms-ted-cruz-cheating-scandal-washington-times-drew-johnson/

    I think 'confirmed' is a bit strong. He was (presumably!) not present for any activities performed by Cruz and these attractive young ladies, so he can only say he 'believes them to be true' (although not being very bright, he has actually said they are accurate without that qualification).

    It's worth noting that the article you linked to doesn't even get the story right, referring to the women as 'hookers', which none of them are (unless any woman who has sex with a married man is a prostitute in their eyes).

    We won't have confirmation of this story unless either Cruz or one of his alleged partners confirms it. So far all of them, including the one who works for Donald Trump, have flatly denied it. That could change but right now this looks more likely to be mud slinging by a man with a grudge. If that's the case I hope for his sake the slinger in question has a good lawyer and plenty of insurance.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,090
    On topic, I wish this article was accurate, because Kasich is about the only person on either side left who would make a half decent President. But I don't think it is. Even if we assume Trump has not built an unstoppable momentum, he is so far ahead that it would look really dodgy (McCarthy vs Humphrey dodgy) to draft another candidate. We all know what the result of that was.

    I think Clinton will beat Trump, although it wouldn't surprise me if it were closer than people expect. Therefore I agree with your article of a few weeks ago that only the FBI can stop her now.

    Considering she is old, allegedly corrupt, undoubtedly arrogant, lazy, incompetent and is the only person for fifty years who has advocated the use of nuclear weapons as an instrument of US foreign policy, that's not great. But we are where we are.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,563
    ydoethur said:

    A Washington Times writer has confirmed that some of the Cruz allegations are accurate:

    http://hollywoodlife.com/2016/03/25/reporter-confirms-ted-cruz-cheating-scandal-washington-times-drew-johnson/

    I think 'confirmed' is a bit strong. He was (presumably!) not present for any activities performed by Cruz and these attractive young ladies, so he can only say he 'believes them to be true' (although not being very bright, he has actually said they are accurate without that qualification).

    It's worth noting that the article you linked to doesn't even get the story right, referring to the women as 'hookers', which none of them are (unless any woman who has sex with a married man is a prostitute in their eyes).

    We won't have confirmation of this story unless either Cruz or one of his alleged partners confirms it. So far all of them, including the one who works for Donald Trump, have flatly denied it. That could change but right now this looks more likely to be mud slinging by a man with a grudge. If that's the case I hope for his sake the slinger in question has a good lawyer and plenty of insurance.
    I think one of them has issued a "non-denial denial"......but Trump's response has been masterful "Haven't read it, nothing to do with me, the Enquirer is often right, I hope they're wrong about lyin' Ted"
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,898
    ydoethur said:

    On topic, I wish this article was accurate, because Kasich is about the only person on either side left who would make a half decent President. But I don't think it is. Even if we assume Trump has not built an unstoppable momentum, he is so far ahead that it would look really dodgy (McCarthy vs Humphrey dodgy) to draft another candidate. We all know what the result of that was.

    I think Clinton will beat Trump, although it wouldn't surprise me if it were closer than people expect. Therefore I agree with your article of a few weeks ago that only the FBI can stop her now.

    Considering she is old, allegedly corrupt, undoubtedly arrogant, lazy, incompetent and is the only person for fifty years who has advocated the use of nuclear weapons as an instrument of US foreign policy, that's not great. But we are where we are.

    In the event of the FBI “stopping” Clinton I assume that, given where we are, Sanders would be the candidate.
    TBH, though, I would think that the FBI aren’t now going to find enough to do anything.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    HYUFD said:

    I doubt Cruz will pull out and I also doubt Kasich will win another state let alone get sufficient delegates to seriously challenge Trump for the nomination, which would effectively require him to win every remaining state. He would have been the best general election candidate but his chance has passed. Goodnight

    He'd need to win a lot less than that. If Cruz does falter, you can be sure now that he'd back Kasich in preference to Trump, and that the mainstream would too if he looked viable. Trump really does need 1200+.

    Now, Trump might well get 1200+. Just because a discredited Cruz (and he isn't that yet) might back Kasich, it doesn't mean that all his supporters would - Trump would only need a small proportion of them to retain a clear lead over JK in the remaining states. But Kasich could win over the majority of Cruz's support, he might well win enough to take it to the convention.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    RobD said:

    It's "lyin' Ted", with an apostrophe. Just saying ;)

    Sayin'.

    Yeah, well. The apostrophe stands for something. I just put the something back!
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    The trickiest bits of the allegations are two fold.

    There's reportedly video of Cruz and the same woman leaving a hotel together on several Tuesday and Thursdays. Assuming this is released then that's hard to handwave away.

    The other is the fact of $500k PAC donation to Carly campaign - that looks really strange.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Are we brushing under the carpet the 250 business leaders that want Brexit? I don't suppose anybody has heard of them but no matter.

    Interesting if Meeks claims these people are mad, infantile and irrational.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,954

    RobD said:

    It's "lyin' Ted", with an apostrophe. Just saying ;)

    Sayin'.

    Yeah, well. The apostrophe stands for something. I just put the something back!
    Hah. I only mention it as Trump made a big deal of how it was Lyin' with an apostrophe ;)
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    TBH, I think most of us have list fatigue.

    It's only certain specific names that get attention such as security experts like Dearlove or the CIA chap. The rest are just news porridge.

    Are we brushing under the carpet the 250 business leaders that want Brexit? I don't suppose anybody has heard of them but no matter.

    Interesting if Meeks claims these people are mad, infantile and irrational.

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,898

    Are we brushing under the carpet the 250 business leaders that want Brexit? I don't suppose anybody has heard of them but no matter.

    Interesting if Meeks claims these people are mad, infantile and irrational.

    Noted that there are a couple of big names from the mobile phone industry, where exploitation of consumers has been pinned back by the EU.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Ha! I just looked at #cruzsexscandal and it's added another 10k tweets overnight. That's a total c650k IIRC
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,092
    ydoethur said:



    Considering [Hilary] is old, allegedly corrupt, undoubtedly arrogant, lazy, incompetent and is the only person for fifty years who has advocated the use of nuclear weapons as an instrument of US foreign policy, that's not great. But we are where we are.

    Which of those will Trump major on, I wonder? Such a smorgasbord...

    The Republicans haven't found a way to stop him destroying the credibility of the rest of the field (although to be fair, they mostly did that by their own words or deeds). Why do folk think the Democrats will have better fortune in stopping Trump? Because their choice has ovaries?

    In an age of anti-politics, Trump's edge is that just about nobody in the political mainstream says he should be the candidate. Meaning he comes with zero baggage of Entitlement. Hillary oozes it. She is a wretched candidate. So bad that Red-under-the-Bed Saunders has run her embarrassingly close. He should be a rounding error on the spoilt ballots, not winning states.

  • Kevin_McCandlessKevin_McCandless Posts: 392
    edited March 2016
    Most American sex scandals seem to take place when they either can't be ignored (i.e. when you drop dead "working on your memoirs" with your "assistant") or when the man is young and relatively good looking for a politician (Hart, Edwards, Clinton, et al.) And whatever you think of Cruz, he really doesn't resemble a young JFK.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    50/1 sounds like a big return but this is several unlikely things piled on top of each other.

    Basically where we're heading is that Trump should get enough votes to win the thing outright, and even if he comes up a bit short he only has to swing a small proportion of the swingable delegates, some of whom will be amenable to the argument that he got the most votes.

    If he somehow manages to lose the first ballot then he's still the overwhelming favourite for the next one, and failing that Cruz is next in line and still controls most of the non-Trump delegates, and if they don't go for Cruz it seems more likely they'd pick somebody who didn't run than somebody who ran and didn't get many votes.

    So it could happen but I reckon it's more like 100/1.

    If it goes to a second ballot at the convention, not all of Trump's delegates remain bound either. From what I've read (do your own research too!), although delegates may be pledged to Trump, Cruz or whoever, that doesn't mean that they necessarily support the candidate; they're mostly party officials / activists who've been nominated by state parties. Who goes to the convention isn't something that the various campaigns have much control over. I assume that because of the changing nature of primaries and conventions over the last 40+ years, taking care of who the actual individuals are at the convention isn't something that the candidates have bothered much about because party rules mandate them to vote in a certain way on the first ballot and there hasn't been a contested convention for decades.

    Or, put another way, if Trump fails to win on the first ballot, expect his delegate count to head south on the second and keep going thereafter. Presumably, this is one reason why candidates 'suspend' their campaign rather than fully withdraw: their delegates can remain bound. If Trump does fall short, I wouldn't be surprised to see Cruz, Rubio formally reactivate their campaigns just to ensure that their delegates cannot vote for Trump initially.

    However, I disagree with your third paragraph. If Cruz does fall and Trump doesn't make 1237, then Kasich will likely have 500+ delegates by the convention: probably more than Cruz. He would have to win the overwhelming majority of non-Trump delegates. That will make his case far more formidable than it was last week, say. He'd also have several more states under his belt (would he have the eight necessary for Rule 40 compliance? Possibly, but if not, expect that rule to be amended PDQ). If he does come to Cleveland with momentum and 500 delegates, I can't see the case for a non-runner entering the debate.

    It's not likely but - IMO - the pieces fit together well enough to make it more likely than the exchange odds suggest.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,914
    This story Cruz story seems to have generated very little interest in the UK media. Is it big in the US? It's strange that it's getting such scant coverage.

    The Washington Times is very much a niche publication on the right and far less read than the Post.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,914
    edited March 2016

    Are we brushing under the carpet the 250 business leaders that want Brexit? I don't suppose anybody has heard of them but no matter.

    Interesting if Meeks claims these people are mad, infantile and irrational.

    It's the lead story in the FT and on the BBC website.

  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    Wanderer said:

    Thanks for this article David. I've been scratching my head over this question all evening (OK, in between eating and drinking to excess).

    It's counterintuitive but it does seem that it could be bad for Trump if Cruz self-destructs. It would force Never Trump to rally around Kasich and Kasich is, potentially, a more formidable opponent than Cruz. Unlike Cruz, he polls far better against Hillary than Trump and he is someone the Republican establishment wouldn't have to hold its nose to support.

    As others have said, there is a world of difference between Trump being, say, 20 delegates short and him being 100 short. In the latter case it will be very hard for him to claim that he has "really" won and to paint anyone else as a "loser". He'd be a loser himself.

    I think Kasich is value if Cruz pull outs or dwindles into an irrelevance. Thing is, how likely is that part of the deal? Cruz could well fend this off.

    Cruz could indeed fend this off.

    The question I asked myself when I was deciding what to write about was "how often have allegations like this proven false in the past?".

    Now, being true and being believed to be true are two different things. Also, past performance is no guarantee of future (or present) results. I deliberately avoided stating that I believed the allegations (not least for legal reasons). In truth, all I can say is what I said in the article: I can believe in the possibility of them but it's a question of relative credibility. How much credibility we give them greatly affects the three candidates' odds. As such, we need to consider the question even if we ultimately decide that the answer is that Trump is a cert, or that it'll have no effect, or whatever.
  • Are we brushing under the carpet the 250 business leaders that want Brexit? I don't suppose anybody has heard of them but no matter.

    Interesting if Meeks claims these people are mad, infantile and irrational.

    It's the lead story in the FT and on the BBC website.

    BSE's Lucy says the 250 do not count as they only signed in a personal capacity... ls this the best she can do after months of preparation inside Govt for Roland Rudd?
  • The primary race has been joyous: s few thoughts

    1. Cruz is more dangerous than Trump - an idealogue from "the rapture is coming" school of "Christianity". His support is anti-establishment as well, why would they all back a mainstream figure like Kasich if it turns out their man has been doing gross hypocrisy as alleged

    2. It's going to be Trump for the GOP ticket. Suggestions about stopping him aren't credible in the alleged leader of the democratic world. Assuming Trump falls just shy of the target but has far more delegates than anyone else it's simply not credible for the GOP to declare him to have lost and appoint someone else. Dame with the Dems should Sanders beat Shillary if they threaten to use the super delegates to overturn the result in her favour.

    3. I'm still of the belief that Sanders could pull it off. But if he can't then it's Trump vs Clinton. And Trump will tear her apart on the campaign - her endless weak points - liar, warmongerer, wall street shill - all play to his campaign strengths. And for establishment "stop Trump" types they hate her already. Will they vote for a Clinton?

    Unless they have him assasinated, itll be Trump for President. (Unless the Dems vote in Sanders in which case Bernie wins)
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    ydoethur said:



    Considering [Hilary] is old, allegedly corrupt, undoubtedly arrogant, lazy, incompetent and is the only person for fifty years who has advocated the use of nuclear weapons as an instrument of US foreign policy, that's not great. But we are where we are.

    Which of those will Trump major on, I wonder? Such a smorgasbord...

    The Republicans haven't found a way to stop him destroying the credibility of the rest of the field (although to be fair, they mostly did that by their own words or deeds). Why do folk think the Democrats will have better fortune in stopping Trump? Because their choice has ovaries?

    In an age of anti-politics, Trump's edge is that just about nobody in the political mainstream says he should be the candidate. Meaning he comes with zero baggage of Entitlement. Hillary oozes it. She is a wretched candidate. So bad that Red-under-the-Bed Saunders has run her embarrassingly close. He should be a rounding error on the spoilt ballots, not winning states.

    Simply that of the two Clinton is the least worst candidate. Hardly an inspiring choice for US voters but that'll be the options available in November.

    Accordingly Clinton will win with plenty to spare.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    ydoethur said:

    On topic, I wish this article was accurate, because Kasich is about the only person on either side left who would make a half decent President. But I don't think it is. Even if we assume Trump has not built an unstoppable momentum, he is so far ahead that it would look really dodgy (McCarthy vs Humphrey dodgy) to draft another candidate. We all know what the result of that was.

    [snip]

    Nixon won by 0.7% and with just 31 ECVs to spare?

    Hillary really is pretty much just another Nixon as well, isn't she?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,563

    This story Cruz story seems to have generated very little interest in the UK media. Is it big in the US? It's strange that it's getting such scant coverage.

    The Washington Times is very much a niche publication on the right and far less read than the Post.

    It is reported the story has been doing the rounds for a while and Breitbart sat on it - one of their journalists tweeted about being scooped when the Enquirer came out. The mainstream media can now report Cruz' reaction to the original story.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    ydoethur said:

    ...

    I think Clinton will beat Trump, although it wouldn't surprise me if it were closer than people expect. Therefore I agree with your article of a few weeks ago that only the FBI can stop her now.

    ...

    That was that only the FBI can stop her as Democratic nominee rather than for the WH, though I did say she'd "probably" win the general election too, excepting accidents.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    surbiton said:

    Neither Trump nor Cruz fit to be President. What a shocking state the Republicans are in at the moment.

    You'd never find a UK party with an unelectable leader.

    Oh wait.

  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    ydoethur said:

    On topic, I wish this article was accurate, because Kasich is about the only person on either side left who would make a half decent President. But I don't think it is. Even if we assume Trump has not built an unstoppable momentum, he is so far ahead that it would look really dodgy (McCarthy vs Humphrey dodgy) to draft another candidate. We all know what the result of that was.

    I think Clinton will beat Trump, although it wouldn't surprise me if it were closer than people expect. Therefore I agree with your article of a few weeks ago that only the FBI can stop her now.

    Considering she is old, allegedly corrupt, undoubtedly arrogant, lazy, incompetent and is the only person for fifty years who has advocated the use of nuclear weapons as an instrument of US foreign policy, that's not great. But we are where we are.

    In the event of the FBI “stopping” Clinton I assume that, given where we are, Sanders would be the candidate.
    TBH, though, I would think that the FBI aren’t now going to find enough to do anything.
    Yes. Sanders has performed very strongly and doesn't seem to be fading. Were Hillary to withdraw (and like you, I don't see that as at all likely now), Sanders would sweep up the remaining delegates. I can't see how that could be overcome by an establishment stitch-up as might have been possible had his campaign gradually dwindled in the face of a Hillary steamroller.
  • prh47bridgeprh47bridge Posts: 441

    The primary race has been joyous: s few thoughts

    1. Cruz is more dangerous than Trump - an idealogue from "the rapture is coming" school of "Christianity". His support is anti-establishment as well, why would they all back a mainstream figure like Kasich if it turns out their man has been doing gross hypocrisy as alleged

    2. It's going to be Trump for the GOP ticket. Suggestions about stopping him aren't credible in the alleged leader of the democratic world. Assuming Trump falls just shy of the target but has far more delegates than anyone else it's simply not credible for the GOP to declare him to have lost and appoint someone else. Dame with the Dems should Sanders beat Shillary if they threaten to use the super delegates to overturn the result in her favour.

    3. I'm still of the belief that Sanders could pull it off. But if he can't then it's Trump vs Clinton. And Trump will tear her apart on the campaign - her endless weak points - liar, warmongerer, wall street shill - all play to his campaign strengths. And for establishment "stop Trump" types they hate her already. Will they vote for a Clinton?

    Unless they have him assasinated, itll be Trump for President. (Unless the Dems vote in Sanders in which case Bernie wins)

    I don't think Trump will beat Clinton. Yes she has weaknesses but they are well known. If her weaknesses would be news to the US GE electorate you would have a point. But the US GE electorate already know her weaknesses and she is still polling well ahead of Trump. It may change but I don't see it. Trump has alienated too many groups. If it is Trump v Clinton I believe America will elect its first female president.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    It broke by accident on CNN when a Trump supporter challenged Amanda live on air, then the Cruz camp finally acknowledged the story.

    There's huge resistance to take Cruz down as the media detest Trump, and want anyone else. It took days before Edwards or Tiger stories got traction - just too hot to touch.

    The Sun repeated the NE story first, then the Mail.

    This story Cruz story seems to have generated very little interest in the UK media. Is it big in the US? It's strange that it's getting such scant coverage.

    The Washington Times is very much a niche publication on the right and far less read than the Post.

  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,914

    The primary race has been joyous: s few thoughts

    1. Cruz is more dangerous than Trump - an idealogue from "the rapture is coming" school of "Christianity". His support is anti-establishment as well, why would they all back a mainstream figure like Kasich if it turns out their man has been doing gross hypocrisy as alleged

    2. It's going to be Trump for the GOP ticket. Suggestions about stopping him aren't credible in the alleged leader of the democratic world. Assuming Trump falls just shy of the target but has far more delegates than anyone else it's simply not credible for the GOP to declare him to have lost and appoint someone else. Dame with the Dems should Sanders beat Shillary if they threaten to use the super delegates to overturn the result in her favour.

    3. I'm still of the belief that Sanders could pull it off. But if he can't then it's Trump vs Clinton. And Trump will tear her apart on the campaign - her endless weak points - liar, warmongerer, wall street shill - all play to his campaign strengths. And for establishment "stop Trump" types they hate her already. Will they vote for a Clinton?

    Unless they have him assasinated, itll be Trump for President. (Unless the Dems vote in Sanders in which case Bernie wins)

    Trump genuinely alarms a number of key demographics. He needs to reach beyond white blue collar men. That will be his big challenge. He suffered when he attacked Fiorina, who was never a hugely appealing candidate, and attacks on Hillary may also prove counter-productive. It gives Hillary the chance to hit back and show "balls", so to speak. She has many serious flaws, but she is a hell of a lot smarter and more experienced than the jokes Trump is currently up against.

  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited March 2016
    Remembering John Edwards - Amanda Carpenter reporting, how ironic...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSgkY89p8_E
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,909

    Are we brushing under the carpet the 250 business leaders that want Brexit? I don't suppose anybody has heard of them but no matter.

    Interesting if Meeks claims these people are mad, infantile and irrational.

    It's the lead story in the FT and on the BBC website.

    Both talking heads on the Sky newspaper review last night were playing it up big time pointing out that these were the entrepreneurs who are creating a lot of the new jobs and growing business in the UK. It is companies who are names on the highstreet and who register with voters. This has so far been a very positive item for Leave.
  • BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113
    RodCrosby said:

    shiney2 said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Police have dropped a race-hate charge against a man who allegedly tweeted about confronting a Muslim woman over the Brussels terror attacks.

    Matthew Doyle, 46, of south Croydon, was charged on Friday morning under Section 19 of the Public Order Act.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-35898029

    Now sue their arses...

    I sure hope so. Croydon pol need their collective nose publically tweaked.
    The smart people should just abandon London and parts of the South-East and let the coming civil war play out. If ISIS don't get you, the multiculturist gestapo will.

    Head north, away from the deadly virus.
    Been overdoing the 'shrooms again?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,312
    ydoethur said:

    A Washington Times writer has confirmed that some of the Cruz allegations are accurate:

    http://hollywoodlife.com/2016/03/25/reporter-confirms-ted-cruz-cheating-scandal-washington-times-drew-johnson/

    I think 'confirmed' is a bit strong. He was (presumably!) not present for any activities performed by Cruz and these attractive young ladies, so he can only say he 'believes them to be true' (although not being very bright, he has actually said they are accurate without that qualification).

    It's worth noting that the article you linked to doesn't even get the story right, referring to the women as 'hookers', which none of them are (unless any woman who has sex with a married man is a prostitute in their eyes).

    We won't have confirmation of this story unless either Cruz or one of his alleged partners confirms it. So far all of them, including the one who works for Donald Trump, have flatly denied it. That could change but right now this looks more likely to be mud slinging by a man with a grudge. If that's the case I hope for his sake the slinger in question has a good lawyer and plenty of insurance.
    That's my view too. Note that the Washington Times is itself not mainstream - it was directly owned until recently by the Moonies, and its editorial approach remains controversial (as a bit of googling will show). The "reporter" seems not to be a reporter but a columnist. In the absence of a smoking gun, I don't think the story will go anywhere, though it's made it less likely that Cruz will support Trump if he wins.

    Trump could still yet fall short, but if Kasich was chosen over him I'd think a 3rd party Trump candidacy would be likely, making Kasich an unlikely General Election winner. I do agree that 50-1 is worth a small punt fo nominee, though.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Is it true that the dead pigs head has issued a statement that it has not slept with Ted Cruz?

    Important that UK politics rises above such things.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,579

    Sun rapped on the knuckles over IS poll:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35903066

    Well, it was a piece with problems, though I still don't see that much distinction between having sympathy for those travelling to Syria and supporting what they do when they get there.
    viewcode said:

    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    If we could get Aaron Sorkin to write it.
    Awesome.

    Let me write it for you

    ..do a big thing badly..
    ..and I'm - incredibly - not..
    ..this fraction of a man..
    ..we reach for the stars..
    ..gather ye rosebuds while ye may..
    ..for reasons passing understanding..
    ..I will rededicate the rest of my life to ruining the rest of yours..
    ..six to five and pick-em..
    ..were you distracted by a bumblebee..
    ..wouldn't complain if her hair was on fire..
    ..just breathe regular..
    ..and I'm never sick at sea..
    ..smart people who disagree with him..
    ..there it is..
    ..I'm standing here telling you..
    ..mohamed-al-mohamed-al-mohamed-bin-bazir..
    ..welcome to the NFL..
    ..the only thing you ever had to do to make me and your mother happy is come home at the end of the day..
    ..as if it matters how a man falls down: when the fall is all that's left, it matters a great deal..
    ..you haven't seen Shakespeare the way it's meant to be done..
    ..I don't always know the right thing to do Lord, but I think the fact that I want to please you, pleases you..
    ..what is the virtue of a proportional response..
    ..don't talk to me like I'm other people..
    ..my man has come back to me..
    ..the street of heaven are too crowded with angels..
    ..her legs go all the way down to the floor..
    ..I'm like Tippi Hedren around here..
    ..I hate your breathing guts..
    ..more and more we've come to expect less and less of each other..

    There y'go.That'll be $100,000 per episode and all the cocaine, please.
    That is pretty hilarious. I get having some choice phrases or tics that repeat*, but that seems a little too cut and pasty and a little lazy.

    * There's an author I really enjoy, but particularly with audio versions their overuse of expressions like 'heart skipped a beat' 'heart quickened' and 'heart sank' started making me worried all the characters had undiagnosed cardiac conditions.
    Thank you. Who's your author with the heart fetish?
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    RodCrosby said:

    shiney2 said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Police have dropped a race-hate charge against a man who allegedly tweeted about confronting a Muslim woman over the Brussels terror attacks.

    Matthew Doyle, 46, of south Croydon, was charged on Friday morning under Section 19 of the Public Order Act.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-35898029

    Now sue their arses...

    I sure hope so. Croydon pol need their collective nose publically tweaked.
    The smart people should just abandon London and parts of the South-East and let the coming civil war play out. If ISIS don't get you, the multiculturist gestapo will.

    Head north, away from the deadly virus.
    Been overdoing the 'shrooms again?
    I'm not too sure which of Rod's recent propositions is more chortle inducing.

    Is it a President Trump landslide or ISIS sweeping along Downing Street with the "multiculturist gestapo" a close second in the "coming civil war"?

    Next he'll be telling us Obama is ineligible to be President.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    edited March 2016

    ydoethur said:

    A Washington Times writer has confirmed that some of the Cruz allegations are accurate:

    http://hollywoodlife.com/2016/03/25/reporter-confirms-ted-cruz-cheating-scandal-washington-times-drew-johnson/

    We won't have confirmation of this story unless either Cruz or one of his alleged partners confirms it. So far all of them, including the one who works for Donald Trump, have flatly denied it. That could change but right now this looks more likely to be mud slinging by a man with a grudge. If that's the case I hope for his sake the slinger in question has a good lawyer and plenty of insurance.
    That's my view too. Note that the Washington Times is itself not mainstream - it was directly owned until recently by the Moonies, and its editorial approach remains controversial (as a bit of googling will show). The "reporter" seems not to be a reporter but a columnist. In the absence of a smoking gun, I don't think the story will go anywhere, though it's made it less likely that Cruz will support Trump if he wins.

    Trump could still yet fall short, but if Kasich was chosen over him I'd think a 3rd party Trump candidacy would be likely, making Kasich an unlikely General Election winner. I do agree that 50-1 is worth a small punt fo nominee, though.
    I was looking into whether a Trump third-party run was possible the other day. Ironically, the thought that prompted me then was the possibility of a non-runner White Knight being parachuted in over both currently leading candidates and hence the possibility of a Trump-Cruz independent ticket. Safe to say, that's unlikely now!

    The simple answer is that a Third Party run could only ever be a spoiler. The option of following Roosevelt's bolt from the 1912 convention to set up his own full general election campaign no longer exists.

    There are two main legal impediments to a candidate so doing so. Firstly, the deadlines for independent candidates to file for the general election are before the convention in many states. In other words, if Trump was denied in Cleveland, the window would already have closed on an independent run. And secondly, there are provisions within some states that forbid 'sore loser' candidacies, meaning that someone who ran for one nomination in the primaries cannot stand for a different party at the general.

    Those provisions don't apply everywhere but would be a severely limiting factor for any candidate thinking of bolting.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    edited March 2016
    Wondering which parts of the SE will be effected by Rods civil war. Dorking? Burgess hill?

    Southern trains are most likely to kick off civil unrest.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,312

    The primary race has been joyous: s few thoughts

    1. Cruz is more dangerous than Trump - an idealogue from "the rapture is coming" school of "Christianity". His support is anti-establishment as well, why would they all back a mainstream figure like Kasich if it turns out their man has been doing gross hypocrisy as alleged

    2. It's going to be Trump for the GOP ticket. Suggestions about stopping him aren't credible in the alleged leader of the democratic world. Assuming Trump falls just shy of the target but has far more delegates than anyone else it's simply not credible for the GOP to declare him to have lost and appoint someone else. Dame with the Dems should Sanders beat Shillary if they threaten to use the super delegates to overturn the result in her favour.

    3. I'm still of the belief that Sanders could pull it off. But if he can't then it's Trump vs Clinton. And Trump will tear her apart on the campaign - her endless weak points - liar, warmongerer, wall street shill - all play to his campaign strengths. And for establishment "stop Trump" types they hate her already. Will they vote for a Clinton?

    Unless they have him assasinated, itll be Trump for President. (Unless the Dems vote in Sanders in which case Bernie wins)

    I like Sanders and naturally like his message, but I think he's had an easy media ride so far. If he was actually the nominee, the "red under the bed" stuff would be thrown at him much more vigorously (Hillary can't do it as she needs his votes in November). I think he'd struggle, though against Trump really anything could happen.

    Hillary vs Trump would be fascinating - she has plenty of ammunition too and is the original tough cookie. I think she'd win in the end, after a deeply unpleasant few months.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,960
    Good morning, everyone.

    Surely it's over?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,090

    ydoethur said:

    On topic, I wish this article was accurate, because Kasich is about the only person on either side left who would make a half decent President. But I don't think it is. Even if we assume Trump has not built an unstoppable momentum, he is so far ahead that it would look really dodgy (McCarthy vs Humphrey dodgy) to draft another candidate. We all know what the result of that was.

    [snip]

    Nixon won by 0.7% and with just 31 ECVs to spare?

    Hillary really is pretty much just another Nixon as well, isn't she?
    I was thinking more that Nixon, a highly controversial and very shady candidate, won, and then a few years later along came Watergate. Even though Humphrey was actually not a bad candidate (like Kasich).

    As Mark Twain said, 'History doesn't repeat itself but sometimes it rhymes'.

    I have to say I can't see Trump beating Clinton. Demography and economics are both against him. But I confidently expect HRC to be an absolute disaster as President.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Jonathan said:

    Wondering which parts of the SE will be effected by Rods civil war. Dorking? Burgess hill?

    Do IS have a position on Southern trains?

    Rod's early warning has had me review my plans for the "Greater Harpenden Bunker".

    Previously my last stand was against the LibDem hordes invading from St.Albans but now the yellow peril is in temporary check clearly ISIS will be at my gates quicker than you can say "Daesh Winning Here".

    Elton John blasting out from the perimeter tannoys "I'm Still Standing" should do the trick .... Phew ....

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    kle4 said:

    Sun rapped on the knuckles over IS poll:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35903066

    Well, it was a piece with problems, though I still don't see that much distinction between having sympathy for those travelling to Syria and supporting what they do when they get there.
    Except that as some pointed out at the time some were travelling to Syria to fight against IS. Furthermore it is possible to feel sympathy for something you don't support.

    If The Sun wanted to post a piece about a survey revealing supporting IS specifically then they could have commissioned a poll asking about support and specifying IS. If there was really no difference then you'd get the same headlines but honestly.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited March 2016

    Good morning, everyone.

    Surely it's over?

    Surely Rod's "civil war" hasn't started yet ....

    Oh my god I missed it .... I'll get Mrs JackW in a burka forthwith ....
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    On topic, I wish this article was accurate, because Kasich is about the only person on either side left who would make a half decent President. But I don't think it is. Even if we assume Trump has not built an unstoppable momentum, he is so far ahead that it would look really dodgy (McCarthy vs Humphrey dodgy) to draft another candidate. We all know what the result of that was.

    [snip]

    Nixon won by 0.7% and with just 31 ECVs to spare?

    Hillary really is pretty much just another Nixon as well, isn't she?
    I was thinking more that Nixon, a highly controversial and very shady candidate, won, and then a few years later along came Watergate. Even though Humphrey was actually not a bad candidate (like Kasich).

    As Mark Twain said, 'History doesn't repeat itself but sometimes it rhymes'.

    I have to say I can't see Trump beating Clinton. Demography and economics are both against him. But I confidently expect HRC to be an absolute disaster as President.
    I'd agree with all that. Hillary, like Nixon, was a good machine politician whose career received an exceptional boost by hitching themselves to genuine stars and riding the legacy ever afterwards. They also failed in their first bid for the White House only to come back eight years later; older and gnarlier.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,312
    edited March 2016
    kle4 said:

    Sun rapped on the knuckles over IS poll:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35903066

    Well, it was a piece with problems, though I still don't see that much distinction between having sympathy for those travelling to Syria and supporting what they do when they get there.

    I know a couple of (white, non-leftie) people who take the "poor deluded youngsters, indoctrinated and lured to their deaths by those ISIS bastards" view - don't know how common that is and it's not my own view, but it makes the "sympathy with the travellers=support for ISIS" equation unsound.

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,979

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    On topic, I wish this article was accurate, because Kasich is about the only person on either side left who would make a half decent President. But I don't think it is. Even if we assume Trump has not built an unstoppable momentum, he is so far ahead that it would look really dodgy (McCarthy vs Humphrey dodgy) to draft another candidate. We all know what the result of that was.

    [snip]

    Nixon won by 0.7% and with just 31 ECVs to spare?

    Hillary really is pretty much just another Nixon as well, isn't she?
    I was thinking more that Nixon, a highly controversial and very shady candidate, won, and then a few years later along came Watergate. Even though Humphrey was actually not a bad candidate (like Kasich).

    As Mark Twain said, 'History doesn't repeat itself but sometimes it rhymes'.

    I have to say I can't see Trump beating Clinton. Demography and economics are both against him. But I confidently expect HRC to be an absolute disaster as President.
    I'd agree with all that. Hillary, like Nixon, was a good machine politician whose career received an exceptional boost by hitching themselves to genuine stars and riding the legacy ever afterwards. They also failed in their first bid for the White House only to come back eight years later; older and gnarlier.
    Nixon's presidency was politically disastrous but historically successful with major achievements to his name in domestic and foreign policy.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited March 2016
    Gawker round-up so far http://gawker.com/a-trump-supporter-just-accused-amanda-carpenter-of-slee-1767089421
    Carpenter forcefully denied the claim, with understandable dismay at being accused of an affair on live national television. “What’s out there is tabloid trash. If someone wants to comment on it, they can talk to my lawyer. It is categorically false. You should be ashamed for spreading this kind of smut. Donald Trump supporters should be held to account for it,” she said.

    Bolduan was eager to change the subject, which is equally interesting. You’d think CNN would have seen the dustup coming after inviting Carpenter on to talk to a vocal supporter of Cruz’s opponent...
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited March 2016

    Sun rapped on the knuckles over IS poll:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35903066

    The Sun used the 1 in 5 from 19% as in

    IPSO "5% of those surveyed had a lot of sympathy, 14% some sympathy and 71% no sympathy with “young Muslims who leave the UK to join fighters in Syria”
    IPSO "Those who responded to the question might not have intended for their answers to be understood as relating to those joining IS; a number of British Muslims had left the UK to fight against IS, or alongside anti-Assad forces or various Sunni groups. The newspaper had therefore distorted the poll results by presenting them as demonstrating “sympathy for jihadis”."
    https://www.ipso.co.uk/IPSO/rulings/IPSOrulings-detail.html?id=331
    Clearly we should pay more attention to the British Muslims who had left the UK to fight against IS, or alongside anti-Assad forces or various Sunni groups. Anyone seen numbers in the hundreds?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,841
    kle4 said:

    Sun rapped on the knuckles over IS poll:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35903066

    Well, it was a piece with problems, though I still don't see that much distinction between having sympathy for those travelling to Syria and supporting what they do when they get there.
    Agreed with one caveat: I do have sympathy for the young children (and in at least one case seemingly grandparents) who are dragged away by parents to join IS. They had no say.
  • kle4 said:

    Sun rapped on the knuckles over IS poll:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35903066

    Well, it was a piece with problems, though I still don't see that much distinction between having sympathy for those travelling to Syria and supporting what they do when they get there.

    I know a couple of (white, non-leftie) people who take the "poor deluded youngsters, indoctrinated and lured to their deaths by those ISIS bastards" view - don't know how common that is and it's not my own view, but it makes the "sympathy with the travellers=support for ISIS" equation unsound.

    A reasonable view Nick but that was not the grounds listed. "Those who responded to the question might not have intended for their answers to be understood as relating to those joining IS; a number of British Muslims had left the UK to fight against IS, or alongside anti-Assad forces or various Sunni groups.

    It was that they may have been fighting against IS that they had some sympathy for.......
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    On topic, I wish this article was accurate, because Kasich is about the only person on either side left who would make a half decent President. But I don't think it is. Even if we assume Trump has not built an unstoppable momentum, he is so far ahead that it would look really dodgy (McCarthy vs Humphrey dodgy) to draft another candidate. We all know what the result of that was.

    [snip]

    Nixon won by 0.7% and with just 31 ECVs to spare?

    Hillary really is pretty much just another Nixon as well, isn't she?
    I was thinking more that Nixon, a highly controversial and very shady candidate, won, and then a few years later along came Watergate. Even though Humphrey was actually not a bad candidate (like Kasich).

    As Mark Twain said, 'History doesn't repeat itself but sometimes it rhymes'.

    I have to say I can't see Trump beating Clinton. Demography and economics are both against him. But I confidently expect HRC to be an absolute disaster as President.
    I'd agree with all that. Hillary, like Nixon, was a good machine politician whose career received an exceptional boost by hitching themselves to genuine stars and riding the legacy ever afterwards. They also failed in their first bid for the White House only to come back eight years later; older and gnarlier.
    Nixon's presidency was politically disastrous but historically successful with major achievements to his name in domestic and foreign policy.
    That's true. And I could see Hillary being a much more effective than either Trump or Cruz. For all Trump's bluster, Hillary really knows how to get deals done in Washington and beyond. However, I still think she'll end up deeply unpopular and out after one term even if she leaves a meaningful legacy (which has to be questionable if the Democrats can't take control of Congress this year).
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,090

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    On topic, I wish this article was accurate, because Kasich is about the only person on either side left who would make a half decent President. But I don't think it is. Even if we assume Trump has not built an unstoppable momentum, he is so far ahead that it would look really dodgy (McCarthy vs Humphrey dodgy) to draft another candidate. We all know what the result of that was.

    [snip]

    Nixon won by 0.7% and with just 31 ECVs to spare?

    Hillary really is pretty much just another Nixon as well, isn't she?
    I was thinking more that Nixon, a highly controversial and very shady candidate, won, and then a few years later along came Watergate. Even though Humphrey was actually not a bad candidate (like Kasich).

    As Mark Twain said, 'History doesn't repeat itself but sometimes it rhymes'.

    I have to say I can't see Trump beating Clinton. Demography and economics are both against him. But I confidently expect HRC to be an absolute disaster as President.
    I'd agree with all that. Hillary, like Nixon, was a good machine politician whose career received an exceptional boost by hitching themselves to genuine stars and riding the legacy ever afterwards. They also failed in their first bid for the White House only to come back eight years later; older and gnarlier.
    Nixon's presidency was politically disastrous but historically successful with major achievements to his name in domestic and foreign policy.
    Detente with China, agreed. On the downside, an inability to sort out Vietnam (although that would have been beyond Superman, never mind Nixon)! Must admit I am struggling to name any achievements on the domestic side.

    Clinton is of course not an alcoholic. On the downside, she is a lot older than Nixon and has had health problems.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,090


    Nixon's presidency was politically disastrous but historically successful with major achievements to his name in domestic and foreign policy.

    That's true. And I could see Hillary being a much more effective than either Trump or Cruz. For all Trump's bluster, Hillary really knows how to get deals done in Washington and beyond. However, I still think she'll end up deeply unpopular and out after one term even if she leaves a meaningful legacy (which has to be questionable if the Democrats can't take control of Congress this year).
    Serious question. Do you think that the Republicans might secretly prefer a Clinton presidency with a Republican congress to a Trump presidency?

    My automatic reservation would be Supreme Court appointments, but they could cut deals on that over say healthcare legislation.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,888

    Remembering John Edwards - Amanda Carpenter reporting, how ironic...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSgkY89p8_E

    Boot's on the other foot now.

    On the other foot.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    JackW said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Surely it's over?

    Surely Rod's "civil war" hasn't started yet ....

    Oh my god I missed it .... I'll get Mrs JackW in a burka forthwith ....
    Does Harvey Nicks do burkas? Nothing but the best I am sure.

    This Civil war in the SE does sound dangerous. The Midlands needs a wall - and for the mexicans to pay for it!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,579

    kle4 said:

    Sun rapped on the knuckles over IS poll:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35903066

    Well, it was a piece with problems, though I still don't see that much distinction between having sympathy for those travelling to Syria and supporting what they do when they get there.

    I know a couple of (white, non-leftie) people who take the "poor deluded youngsters, indoctrinated and lured to their deaths by those ISIS bastards" view - don't know how common that is and it's not my own view, but it makes the "sympathy with the travellers=support for ISIS" equation unsound.

    I disagree entirely with people who take that view - I have sympathy for deluded youngsters...up to a point. But there is no universe in which someone lured by the claims of IS can be unaware of the things they do, because IS themselves gleefully advertise what they are about, including the gory details. And after a certain point, the crappiness of one's own life and circumstances that might make the claims of bastards like IS seem attractive ceases to be an excuse for the consequences of making that choice and the reality of what it means

    The Sun story had a lot of nonsense in it, but to my mind disentangling 'support for IS' from 'sympathy for the travellers' is a mistake. I don't doubt some people try to do that, as they don't want to condemn individuals, some of who will be really stupid or legitimately confused and angry about things, but if someone has made an active choice to go to Syria, they either know damn well what they are getting into, or are willfully blind. And I do not have sympathy for the willfully blind, just because they are deluded.

    However, I do understand the motivation behind trying to separate out the two things. I think it unhelpful and arising from a desire not to confront some ugly truths (that some people do like IS and want to help them) by disassociating people from their own choices, but it can be easily overextended and that will always worry people.
  • I am a little unsettled by the anti-Trump meme from the lefties. Stopping the most popular candidate winning elections is a step on the road to becoming Syria.

    Embrace the Trump
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,579

    I am a little unsettled by the anti-Trump meme from the lefties. Stopping the most popular candidate winning elections is a step on the road to becoming Syria.

    Well, I hope there are a few more steps between the two positions, but it would seem to be a mistake to try it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,579

    JackW said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Surely it's over?

    Surely Rod's "civil war" hasn't started yet ....

    Oh my god I missed it .... I'll get Mrs JackW in a burka forthwith ....
    Does Harvey Nicks do burkas? Nothing but the best I am sure.

    This Civil war in the SE does sound dangerous. The Midlands needs a wall - and for the mexicans to pay for it!
    LOL!
  • kle4 said:

    I am a little unsettled by the anti-Trump meme from the lefties. Stopping the most popular candidate winning elections is a step on the road to becoming Syria.

    Well, I hope there are a few more steps between the two positions, but it would seem to be a mistake to try it.
    Yes and the Labour party are clearly trying it in-house by picking the least popular candidate to lead their party.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,040

    JackW said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Surely it's over?

    Surely Rod's "civil war" hasn't started yet ....

    Oh my god I missed it .... I'll get Mrs JackW in a burka forthwith ....
    Does Harvey Nicks do burkas? Nothing but the best I am sure.

    This Civil war in the SE does sound dangerous. The Midlands needs a wall - and for the mexicans to pay for it!
    LOL!

    Has Rod been on the juice recently or is he really a right-wing/ultra-right-wing fruitcake?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,579
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Sun rapped on the knuckles over IS poll:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35903066

    Well, it was a piece with problems, though I still don't see that much distinction between having sympathy for those travelling to Syria and supporting what they do when they get there.

    I know a couple of (white, non-leftie) people who take the "poor deluded youngsters, indoctrinated and lured to their deaths by those ISIS bastards" view - don't know how common that is and it's not my own view, but it makes the "sympathy with the travellers=support for ISIS" equation unsound.

    I disagree entirely with people who take that view - I have sympathy for deluded youngsters...up to a point. But there is no universe in which someone lured by the claims of IS can be unaware of the things they do, because IS themselves gleefully advertise what they are about, including the gory details. And after a certain point, the crappiness of one's own life and circumstances that might make the claims of bastards like IS seem attractive ceases to be an excuse for the consequences of making that choice and the reality of what it means

    The Sun story had a lot of nonsense in it, but to my mind disentangling 'support for IS' from 'sympathy for the travellers' is a mistake. I don't doubt some people try to do that, as they don't want to condemn individuals, some of who will be really stupid or legitimately confused and angry about things, but if someone has made an active choice to go to Syria, they either know damn well what they are getting into, or are willfully blind. And I do not have sympathy for the willfully blind, just because they are deluded.

    However, I do understand the motivation behind trying to separate out the two things. I think it unhelpful and arising from a desire not to confront some ugly truths (that some people do like IS and want to help them) by disassociating people from their own choices, but it can be easily overextended and that will always worry people.
    If it was a matter of having sympathy with those fighting against IS, that's more understandable a position, although not without problems depending on for what reason they had sympathy.
  • JackW said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Surely it's over?

    Surely Rod's "civil war" hasn't started yet ....

    Oh my god I missed it .... I'll get Mrs JackW in a burka forthwith ....
    Does Harvey Nicks do burkas? Nothing but the best I am sure.

    This Civil war in the SE does sound dangerous. The Midlands needs a wall - and for the mexicans to pay for it!
    Leicester has the M69 to prevent access already.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Surely it's over?

    Surely Rod's "civil war" hasn't started yet ....

    Oh my god I missed it .... I'll get Mrs JackW in a burka forthwith ....
    Does Harvey Nicks do burkas? Nothing but the best I am sure.

    This Civil war in the SE does sound dangerous. The Midlands needs a wall - and for the mexicans to pay for it!
    :smiley:

    Harvey Nicks is a bit down market for Mrs JackW. :smile:

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,090
    edited March 2016

    I am a little unsettled by the anti-Trump meme from the lefties. Stopping the most popular candidate winning elections is a step on the road to becoming Syria.

    Embrace the Trump

    Welcome to PB, Conservative Boy. Good to see the spirit of Harry Enfield is still alive and well :wink:

    Trouble is, we don't know that Trump is popular. If he isn't he'll lose anyway. At the moment, you've got the more centrist people agonising that he'll throw away the election to a dud candidate (Clinton). The lefties appear to be quite happy with the thought of those two slugging it out.

    The candidate Trump resembles is Corbyn. I don't somehow think that either will prove the next Tsipras. Neither we nor the Americans are in the desperate straits as Greece - at least, not yet.

    Edit - my autocorrect made 'Trump' into Trumpet. There could be a pun on Trumpet's Crumpet there given the stories about Cruz and Trump's undoubtedly colourful sex life! No charge TSE.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,779

    I am a little unsettled by the anti-Trump meme from the lefties. Stopping the most popular candidate winning elections is a step on the road to becoming Syria.

    Embrace the Trump

    Indeed. Much as we may all wish it wasn't happening Trump is clearly the most popular candidate on the Republican side and he should be the Republicans Presidential candidate.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,101
    One thing for sure is that Cruz has gone all in on this with his vociferous denials. Having been unfaithful is not fatal to being President, ask Bill, but to be found to be lying about it usually is (Bill again being the exception).

    My guess is that one of these women will come forward although descriptions of them as hookers doesn't help and he will be toast. But who wants to live the life of a Monica? It is possible that they will stay silent. Either way Trump beats him but maybe not by enough to win outright. Can they really give the nomination to a guy who has only won his own state? Surely not.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    JackW said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Surely it's over?

    Surely Rod's "civil war" hasn't started yet ....

    Oh my god I missed it .... I'll get Mrs JackW in a burka forthwith ....
    Does Harvey Nicks do burkas? Nothing but the best I am sure.

    This Civil war in the SE does sound dangerous. The Midlands needs a wall - and for the mexicans to pay for it!
    Leicester has the M69 to prevent access already.
    Clogged by refugees fleeing Coventry, desperate to soak up the sights of Leicester...
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    GIN1138 said:

    I am a little unsettled by the anti-Trump meme from the lefties. Stopping the most popular candidate winning elections is a step on the road to becoming Syria.

    Embrace the Trump

    Indeed. Much as we may all wish it wasn't happening Trump is clearly the most popular candidate on the Republican side and he should be the Republicans Presidential candidate.
    I agree. If the Republicans are bonkers enough to pick Trump fair and square then that should be accepted.

    Hillary will be an excellent President.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited March 2016



    3. I'm still of the belief that Sanders could pull it off. But if he can't then it's Trump vs Clinton. And Trump will tear her apart on the campaign - her endless weak points - liar, warmongerer, wall street shill - all play to his campaign strengths. And for establishment "stop Trump" types they hate her already. Will they vote for a Clinton?

    FWIW, my US family (having been backers of Jeb as the candidate with the greatest sense of the public service ethos) are likely to vote Clinton. They are justifying it to themselves as making their decision solely on foreign policy / America's role in the world...

    I asked them about Kaisch, and apparently it's worth digging hard on him. There's a reason why the establishment isn't backing him. It's been euphemistically described to me as "anger issues" but no one will be drawn on more precise details than that. Never known so many people clam up so fast.
  • Anyone else think that the police across europe should be focusing on catching terrorists?

    http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/14382402.Hundreds_of_motorists_pulled_over_in_seat_belt_crackdown/

    "The week of action was to part the first Tispol (European Traffic Police Network) seatbelt enforcement campaign of the year, and officers all over Europe carried out co-ordinated checks. "
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,090
    Charles said:



    3. I'm still of the belief that Sanders could pull it off. But if he can't then it's Trump vs Clinton. And Trump will tear her apart on the campaign - her endless weak points - liar, warmongerer, wall street shill - all play to his campaign strengths. And for establishment "stop Trump" types they hate her already. Will they vote for a Clinton?

    FWIW, my US family (having been backers of Jeb as the candidate with the greatest sense of the public service ethos) are likely to vote Clinton. They are justifying it to themselves as making their decision solely on foreign policy / America's role in the world...

    I asked them about Kaisch, and apparently it's worth digging hard on him. There's a reason why the establishment isn't backing him. It's been euphemistically described to me as "anger issues" but no one will be drawn on more precise details than that. Never known so many people clam up so fast.
    See the New York Times profile above.
  • ydoethur said:

    I am a little unsettled by the anti-Trump meme from the lefties. Stopping the most popular candidate winning elections is a step on the road to becoming Syria.

    Embrace the Trump

    Welcome to PB, Conservative Boy. Good to see the spirit of Harry Enfield is still alive and well :wink:

    Trouble is, we don't know that Trump is popular. If he isn't he'll lose anyway. At the moment, you've got the more centrist people agonising that he'll throw away the election to a dud candidate (Clinton). The lefties appear to be quite happy with the thought of those two slugging it out.

    The candidate Trump resembles is Corbyn. I don't somehow think that either will prove the next Tsipras. Neither we nor the Americans are in the desperate straits as Greece - at least, not yet.

    Edit - my autocorrect made 'Trump' into Trumpet. There could be a pun on Trumpet's Crumpet there given the stories about Cruz and Trump's undoubtedly colourful sex life! No charge TSE.
    Thank you for the welcome. Unfortunately the funniest comedians do tend to be left wing.

    I disagree with your point. What Trump says and stands for is unpalatable for some but he does stand for American aspiration. That aspiration is threatened and I think he will be more popular in voting booths than polls suggest (I have no idea if this has already happened in the primaries). The "shy Trump" factor could swing it for him.

    I personally believe there will be a one term Trump presidency where he sets the future tone for America followed by a more moderate Republican to follow through his work.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Attempting to turn an election, into a selection is asking for it.

    I am a little unsettled by the anti-Trump meme from the lefties. Stopping the most popular candidate winning elections is a step on the road to becoming Syria.

    Embrace the Trump

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,090

    Anyone else think that the police across europe should be focusing on catching terrorists?

    http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/14382402.Hundreds_of_motorists_pulled_over_in_seat_belt_crackdown/

    "The week of action was to part the first Tispol (European Traffic Police Network) seatbelt enforcement campaign of the year, and officers all over Europe carried out co-ordinated checks. "

    Actually - how many people die from not wearing seat belts compared to those killed in terrorist attacks?

    I'm guessing it's more...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,888
    "The Sun had argued the meaning of "those who leave the UK to join fighters in Syria" was not ambiguous.

    The paper said previous questions in the telephone survey had made explicit reference to IS and the overwhelming majority of those who leave the UK to join fighters in Syria are joining IS."

    The Sun's reasoning is a mathematically provable logical fallacy.
  • JackW said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Surely it's over?

    Surely Rod's "civil war" hasn't started yet ....

    Oh my god I missed it .... I'll get Mrs JackW in a burka forthwith ....
    Does Harvey Nicks do burkas? Nothing but the best I am sure.

    This Civil war in the SE does sound dangerous. The Midlands needs a wall - and for the mexicans to pay for it!
    Leicester has the M69 to prevent access already.
    Clogged by refugees fleeing Coventry, desperate to soak up the sights of Leicester...
    Here in Birmingham we have invented the M6 to stop refugees from any direction.
  • GIN1138 said:

    I am a little unsettled by the anti-Trump meme from the lefties. Stopping the most popular candidate winning elections is a step on the road to becoming Syria.

    Embrace the Trump

    Indeed. Much as we may all wish it wasn't happening Trump is clearly the most popular candidate on the Republican side and he should be the Republicans Presidential candidate.
    I agree. If the Republicans are bonkers enough to pick Trump fair and square then that should be accepted.

    Hillary will be an excellent President.
    Point proved. Criminal v Trump and people still side for the leftie :)
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,960
    Mr. Boy, welcome to pb.com.

    Well, there are one or two people who are good at comedy but not on the left. Hopefully... :p
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,841

    Anyone else think that the police across europe should be focusing on catching terrorists?

    http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/14382402.Hundreds_of_motorists_pulled_over_in_seat_belt_crackdown/

    "The week of action was to part the first Tispol (European Traffic Police Network) seatbelt enforcement campaign of the year, and officers all over Europe carried out co-ordinated checks. "

    Many will be focussed on catching terrorists. Police forces should be able to have more than one thing on at a time

    I bet many times more people in the EU will die this year from not wearing seatbelts, of by others who are not wearing seatbelts, than will be killed by terrorists.

    But what does that matter if it get in the way of just another mindless bash-the-EU comment.
  • LondonBobLondonBob Posts: 467
    People really need to start paying more attention to how HRC is doing in the Democratic race. Turnout is low, despite a competitive race. She almost always gets less votes than Trump despite the republican field being more crowded, with key swing states such as Ohio, New Hampshire and Flordia looking particularly concerning. She clearly has a problem with white voters and men in particular.

    Indeed the number of men voting in Democratic primaries has been very low. Typically about 50/50 in male/female participation, while on the Democrats’ side it’s more like 44/56 male/female. Since Hillary isn’t doing so hot with those few men who do vote, she has an extremely lopsided gender gap among her supporters that the raw preference numbers are concealing. In Ohio, for instance, she lost men to Sanders by only 3 points which doesn’t sound so bad, but because so few men actually voted in the Dem primary only 36% of her supporters were male, while “BernieBro” Sanders actually had a very balanced supporter demographic that was 51% male, 49% female. Do those calculations for all the major candidates in a few recent states, and you get:

    OHIO
    Cruz (47/53)
    Kasich (50/50)
    Trump (55/45)
    Clinton (36/64)
    Sanders (51/49)

    ILLINOIS
    Cruz (49/51)
    Kasich (46/54)
    Trump (55/45)
    Clinton (41/59)
    Sanders (50/50)

    MICHIGAN
    Cruz (45/55)
    Kasich (50/50)
    Trump (64/36)
    Clinton (41/59)
    Sanders (50/50)

    FLORIDA
    Cruz (48/52)
    Rubio (38/62)
    Trump (56/44)
    Clinton (37/63)
    Sanders (51/49)

    NORTH CAROLINA
    Cruz (49/51)
    Kasich (46/54)
    Rubio (36/64)
    Trump (54/46)
    Clinton (38/62)
    Sanders (48/52)

    First number is the percentage of voters for that candidate that was male, second female.

    The news media is talking about Trump’s problems with women, but the only state in this group where Trump had a more sex-imbalanced group of supporters than Clinton was in Michigan. Everywhere else it isn’t close. Clinton seems to repel men.

    Ultimately Primaries tell us most about how strong a candidate is and which demographics are likely to turnout, or not. HRC's continuing struggles, indeed the fact she is weakening, are a big concern for the Democratic side.
  • Attempting to turn an election, into a selection is asking for it.

    I am a little unsettled by the anti-Trump meme from the lefties. Stopping the most popular candidate winning elections is a step on the road to becoming Syria.

    Embrace the Trump

    Agreed. The Labour party must to have learned now to vote for the person they want rather than selecting the wrong one - Brown and Corbyn are examples of what happens when you select a candidate.
This discussion has been closed.