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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The referendum polling is getting much tighter. Gone are th

SystemSystem Posts: 11,008
edited March 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The referendum polling is getting much tighter. Gone are the double digit phone poll leads

After a months of very large REMAIN leads in the phone polls we’ve now had three in the past week which are all showing that the race is getting much tighter. Ipsos and ComRes have 8% REMAIN leads while Survation has it at 11% – all very similar.

Read the full story here


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    Not what Dave was expecting
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    2 months to go - we can do this!
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799
    Last Summer, it looked like it would be a walk in the park for Remain. Even if MORI's 44% lead for Remain was an outlier, all the other polling companies were putting the lead in double figures. I think two events have shifted things the other way:-

    1. The migration crisis
    2. The end of the Government's honeymoon period.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187
    edited March 2016
    That different pollsters view the effect of turnout differently suggests to me they don't really know what's going on. This is another area to keep an eye on with regards to possible herding.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,249
    "Tighter" = herding, surely?

    Will we never learn?
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,131

    Not what Dave was expecting

    No, as I said on the previous thread the polling indicates this is already as close as Jack's Arse with a trend towards it getting closer yet. If Leave could manage to sound coherent even for a couple of days we could see the equivalent of the famous Yougov poll.
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Indeed not. I think he also made a mistake by campaigning at full throttle too early - long before most people are focussed on the issue.
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387
    "I did an ERASMUS exchange year as a student, it was great, no tuition fees and a €3000 bursary for living costs. That will disappear if we Leave. Colossal waste of money of course, but so are free TV licences for millionaires. " ~ Freggles

    Luckily for future little Freggles-s, a number of countries participate in ERASMUS that are not part of the EU.

    http://erasmus-plus.ro/erasmus-participating-countries-programme-erasmus-plus/
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    I think that Remain have ramped up Project Fear way, way too early. It is already losing its impact on people and if they continue to ratchet it up Vote Leave can start putting out spoof posters "Vote Remain or a plague of frogs will descend on Britain" etc...

    Even my apolitical friends are noticing the increasing histrionics from the Remain side.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,969
    Easy to say you'll vote to Leave now. When the date draws near and fear becomes real, I think a great many will return to Remain.
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited March 2016
    Sean_F said:

    Last Summer, it looked like it would be a walk in the park for Remain. Even if MORI's 44% lead for Remain was an outlier, all the other polling companies were putting the lead in double figures. I think two events have shifted things the other way:-

    1. The migration crisis
    2. The end of the Government's honeymoon period.

    I would also add that Remain's "Project Fear" style of campaigning is pushing away Labour voters.

    Rolling out mega-rich CEOs to whine about how their profit margins are going to get hit, just doesn't cut the mustard for the average leftie.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,131
    Patrick said:

    2 months to go - we can do this!

    Not if we keep having threads like the last one.

    Seriously, I am for Leave but I am not enjoying the comments from quite a number of my fellow Leavers, not at all. Richard Nabavi is a big boy who can look after himself but the hounding and moaning about a speech by Nicky Morgan (I mean Nicky Morgan for goodness sake, who the hell cares what she said) was tedious, unpleasant and worst of all, seriously boring. It is putting me off coming here, I won't deny it.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,914

    Not what Dave was expecting

    If that is seriously the case then he is a total fool.

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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Ben Page
    Cameron right to worry about turnout - REMAIN only 2 points ahead if factor in turnout (46%LEAVE vs 48% REMAIN) https://t.co/9zAcNL0uCK
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Claps

    "I did an ERASMUS exchange year as a student, it was great, no tuition fees and a €3000 bursary for living costs. That will disappear if we Leave. Colossal waste of money of course, but so are free TV licences for millionaires. " ~ Freggles

    Luckily for future little Freggles-s, a number of countries participate in ERASMUS that are not part of the EU.

    http://erasmus-plus.ro/erasmus-participating-countries-programme-erasmus-plus/

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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited March 2016
    Osborne's unravelling will have made an impact. I think he's the one behind Remain more than Dave to be honest - and will have strongarmed a lot of colleagues into that camp (Javid?). He used to be a somewhat safe pair of hands managing the money reasonably well under difficult circumstances. Just lately he has morphed into a white cat stroking evil psychopath who spends his days plotting how to render the poor destitute so that his billionaire buddies can get a deeper tax cut whilst selling out to the EU machine - or something like this. He's re-nastified the party. Every day he is there nastifies the Remain case.

    I suspect Dave, utterly naively, thought he could fight a good fight, win clean and let the country and the party move on. In his dreams. The referendum is going to cause lasting and insoluble divisions. He could have won clean if he were on the right side of the argument - but he's opted for the establishment.

    The weather is getting much warmer. Let's watch the migrant flow rate across the water. It won't be going down!
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Danny565 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Last Summer, it looked like it would be a walk in the park for Remain. Even if MORI's 44% lead for Remain was an outlier, all the other polling companies were putting the lead in double figures. I think two events have shifted things the other way:-

    1. The migration crisis
    2. The end of the Government's honeymoon period.

    I would also add that Remain's "Project Fear" style of campaigning is pushing away Labour voters.

    Rolling out mega-rich CEOs whining about how their profit margins are going to get hit just doesn't cut the mustard for the average leftie.
    Ooh, so can the nation pin the blame of Leave on Ed Miliband as well! Without his changes to the leadership elections we would have got someone like Yvette or Burnham as leader who would be giving a full-throated lefty argument for remain, instead we have Corbyn phoning it in.
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    DavidL said:

    Patrick said:

    2 months to go - we can do this!

    Not if we keep having threads like the last one.

    Seriously, I am for Leave but I am not enjoying the comments from quite a number of my fellow Leavers, not at all. Richard Nabavi is a big boy who can look after himself but the hounding and moaning about a speech by Nicky Morgan (I mean Nicky Morgan for goodness sake, who the hell cares what she said) was tedious, unpleasant and worst of all, seriously boring. It is putting me off coming here, I won't deny it.
    Personally, I would like a filter where you have the option to "hide" all EU-related posts.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903

    Easy to say you'll vote to Leave now. When the date draws near and fear becomes real, I think a great many will return to Remain.

    The flip floppers will be the first against the wall. If you're on the pot, well you know the rest.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,969
    Mr. L, don't worry, in a few days it's the Bahrain Grand Prix.

    Assuming everyone turns up for qualifying...
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903
    Danny565 said:

    DavidL said:

    Patrick said:

    2 months to go - we can do this!

    Not if we keep having threads like the last one.

    Seriously, I am for Leave but I am not enjoying the comments from quite a number of my fellow Leavers, not at all. Richard Nabavi is a big boy who can look after himself but the hounding and moaning about a speech by Nicky Morgan (I mean Nicky Morgan for goodness sake, who the hell cares what she said) was tedious, unpleasant and worst of all, seriously boring. It is putting me off coming here, I won't deny it.
    Personally, I would like a filter where you have the option to "hide" all EU-related posts.
    Heh. How do you see Wisconsin going :) ?
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    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    'If that is seriously the case then he is a total fool. '

    Perhaps he really thinks turning up at Charlbury farmers' market from time to time keeps him in touch with ordinary people. Or perhaps not.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Here I find Corbyn's position peculiar. He's been anti-EU for decades and now a limp Remainer.

    That's doing nothing for Labour either way.
    Danny565 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Last Summer, it looked like it would be a walk in the park for Remain. Even if MORI's 44% lead for Remain was an outlier, all the other polling companies were putting the lead in double figures. I think two events have shifted things the other way:-

    1. The migration crisis
    2. The end of the Government's honeymoon period.

    I would also add that Remain's "Project Fear" style of campaigning is pushing away Labour voters.

    Rolling out mega-rich CEOs to whine about how their profit margins are going to get hit, just doesn't cut the mustard for the average leftie.
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Sean_F said:

    Last Summer, it looked like it would be a walk in the park for Remain. Even if MORI's 44% lead for Remain was an outlier, all the other polling companies were putting the lead in double figures. I think two events have shifted things the other way:-

    1. The migration crisis
    2. The end of the Government's honeymoon period.

    3. GO turning out to be less the titan of chancellors that TSE would have use believe, and more a lucky brownite meddler, whose luck ran out.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    MaxPB said:

    I think that Remain have ramped up Project Fear way, way too early. It is already losing its impact on people and if they continue to ratchet it up Vote Leave can start putting out spoof posters "Vote Remain or a plague of frogs will descend on Britain" etc...

    Even my apolitical friends are noticing the increasing histrionics from the Remain side.

    For me, whenever Remain opens its mouth, it sounds like a bad parent trying to discipline an unruly child. Shrill, shouty, empty, overstated and illogical threats.

    Leave is scaremongering too, but the scares are subtler.
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Easy to say you'll vote to Leave now. When the date draws near and fear becomes real, I think a great many will return to Remain.

    I think a great many will sit on the sofa.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,267
    Sean_F said:

    Last Summer, it looked like it would be a walk in the park for Remain. Even if MORI's 44% lead for Remain was an outlier, all the other polling companies were putting the lead in double figures. I think two events have shifted things the other way:-

    1. The migration crisis
    2. The end of the Government's honeymoon period.

    Almost certainly not true but I'd love to see some classically British behaviour of more people moving to Leave the more ludicrous the scare stories by Remain become - in protest at being taken for fools.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    edited March 2016
    taffys said:

    Leave is scaremongering too, but the scares are subtler.

    "Murderers and rapists are coming to get you..."

    That is truly subtle.
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    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474

    "I did an ERASMUS exchange year as a student, it was great, no tuition fees and a €3000 bursary for living costs. That will disappear if we Leave. Colossal waste of money of course, but so are free TV licences for millionaires. " ~ Freggles

    Luckily for future little Freggles-s, a number of countries participate in ERASMUS that are not part of the EU.

    http://erasmus-plus.ro/erasmus-participating-countries-programme-erasmus-plus/

    Presumably Erasmus is funded by money that we all (including Freggles) pay into the EU, which is skimmed and recycled back to us. Some 'freebie'.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    What another new thread...can we talk about Inter-Railing again?
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,298
    edited March 2016

    Not what Dave was expecting

    If that is seriously the case then he is a total fool.

    It was more the expectation the Tory leavers would be around 80MPs, the likes of IDS, Grayling, Holloborne and Bone, you know voter repellents.

    It is nearly half the Parliamentary Party, and loyalists like Gove are for Leave that have surprised Dave.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Seriously? She made a numpty of herself.

    Silly arguments based on nothing, and awful social media cred.

    No one did this to her except her speech writer, and CCHQ.
    DavidL said:

    Patrick said:

    2 months to go - we can do this!

    Not if we keep having threads like the last one.

    Seriously, I am for leave but I am not enjoying the comments from quite a number of my fellow Leavers, not at all. Richard Nabavi is a big boy who can look after himself but the hounding and moaning about a speech by Nicky Morgan (I mean Nicky Morgan for goodness sake, who the hell cares what she said) was tedious, unpleasant and worst of all, seriously boring. It is putting me off coming here, I won't deny it.
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    Not if we keep having threads like the last one.

    Agreed. A lot of Leavers betraying their inner anger and frustration. Me - I think Remain will probably sneak it. But that isn't going to be the end of the story! We'll have another referendum and another until we get the right answer. Or the unfixed Eurozone will collapse first and it will all be moot. The sky won't fall in on the 24th June whatever we choose.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,969
    Mr. Indigo, indeed. The overblown scare stories will cause many people to just sit it out, when they might otherwise have voted.

    That may be a net advantage for Leave.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    DavidL said:

    Patrick said:

    2 months to go - we can do this!

    Not if we keep having threads like the last one.

    Seriously, I am for Leave but I am not enjoying the comments from quite a number of my fellow Leavers, not at all. Richard Nabavi is a big boy who can look after himself but the hounding and moaning about a speech by Nicky Morgan (I mean Nicky Morgan for goodness sake, who the hell cares what she said) was tedious, unpleasant and worst of all, seriously boring. It is putting me off coming here, I won't deny it.
    David, are you saying we should just let the government's fear campaign go unchallenged? It's absolutely stupid to say that backpacking or inter-railing will be more difficult in the case of Brexit, especially since inter-rail isn't anything to do with the EU and easy movement on the continent is Schengen, again something not to do with the EU.

    Morgan made a foolish comment, people said it was foolish and others denied it, despite the overwhelming evidence of it being a foolish comment.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799

    Easy to say you'll vote to Leave now. When the date draws near and fear becomes real, I think a great many will return to Remain.

    Easy to say you'll vote to Leave now. When the date draws near and fear becomes real, I think a great many will return to Remain.

    Even I, occasionally, worry that we'll be viewed as some kind of pariah State if we vote Leave.
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Pulpstar said:

    Danny565 said:

    DavidL said:

    Patrick said:

    2 months to go - we can do this!

    Not if we keep having threads like the last one.

    Seriously, I am for Leave but I am not enjoying the comments from quite a number of my fellow Leavers, not at all. Richard Nabavi is a big boy who can look after himself but the hounding and moaning about a speech by Nicky Morgan (I mean Nicky Morgan for goodness sake, who the hell cares what she said) was tedious, unpleasant and worst of all, seriously boring. It is putting me off coming here, I won't deny it.
    Personally, I would like a filter where you have the option to "hide" all EU-related posts.
    Heh. How do you see Wisconsin going :) ?
    I would guess Bernie? Not a blowout but maybe by about 5/6% or so.

    Personally I have a sneaky feeling New York will be much closer than the polls are showing, though Clinton will probably edge it.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,914

    Not what Dave was expecting

    If that is seriously the case then he is a total fool.

    It was more the expectation the Tory leavers would be around 80MPs, the likes of IDS, Grayling, Holloborne and Bone, you know voter repellents.

    It is nearly half the Parliamentary Party, and loyalists like Gove are for Leave that have surprised Dave.

    Gove on his own may have been a surprise, but surely he must have realised that the Tories were ferociously anti-EU. It's why the referendum is happening in the first place, after all. I guess if he so badly misread his own party it is not a huge surprise he failed to see how immigration was always going to put the vote on a knife-edge.
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Not what Dave was expecting

    If that is seriously the case then he is a total fool.

    It was more the expectation the Tory leavers would be around 80MPs, the likes of IDS, Grayling, Holloborne and Bone, you know voter repellents.

    It is nearly half the Parliamentary Party, and loyalists like Gove are for Leave that have surprised Dave.

    Perhaps he should have taken an opinion poll of his MPs first...

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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,914
    taffys said:

    MaxPB said:

    I think that Remain have ramped up Project Fear way, way too early. It is already losing its impact on people and if they continue to ratchet it up Vote Leave can start putting out spoof posters "Vote Remain or a plague of frogs will descend on Britain" etc...

    Even my apolitical friends are noticing the increasing histrionics from the Remain side.

    For me, whenever Remain opens its mouth, it sounds like a bad parent trying to discipline an unruly child. Shrill, shouty, empty, overstated and illogical threats.

    Leave is scaremongering too, but the scares are subtler.

    Subtle in the sense that being whacked across the head by an iron bar is subtle?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3513072/Deadly-cost-open-borders-Damning-dossier-lists-catalogue-murders-rapes-committed-Britain-50-foreign-criminals-let-EU-rules.html

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    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    'Even I, occasionally, worry that we'll be viewed as some kind of pariah State if we vote Leave'

    Well that was true after King Henry VIII broke with Rome, but it was 100% the right decision to do so.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,969
    edited March 2016
    Mr. F, better a pariah than chained to the eurozone by the neck.

    There's a risk either way. I'd sooner we take the risky option which gives us the power to mitigate it and exploit opportunities in our favour, as opposed to the risky option which puts us under the yoke of Brussels.

    Edited extra bit: Mr. Runnymede not the last time an opt-out from European integration proved wise.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    And Cameron didn’t. He insulted Boris in the HoC and totally misjudged his colleagues and MPs.

    I've read reports elsewhere that he regrets his red mist, well it's a bit late now.

    His bed, he made it. I'm very sad we're here, but I'm not giving him a free pass.
    Patrick said:

    Osborne's unravelling will have made an impact. I think he's the one behind Remain more than Dave to be honest - and will have strongarmed a lot of colleagues into that camp (Javid?). He used to be a somewhat safe pair of hands managing the money reasonably well under difficult circumstances. Just lately he has morphed into a white cat stroking evil psychopath who spends his days plotting how to render the poor destitute so that his billionaire buddies can get a deeper tax cut whilst selling out to the EU machine - or something like this. He's re-nastified the party. Every day he is there nastifies the Remain case.

    I suspect Dave, utterly naively, thought he could fight a good fight, win clean and let the country and the party move on. In his dreams. The referendum is going to cause lasting and insoluble divisions. He could have won clean if he were on the right side of the argument - but he's opted for the establishment.

    The weather is getting much warmer. Let's watch the migrant flow rate across the water. It won't be going down!

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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,914
    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    Patrick said:

    2 months to go - we can do this!

    Not if we keep having threads like the last one.

    Seriously, I am for Leave but I am not enjoying the comments from quite a number of my fellow Leavers, not at all. Richard Nabavi is a big boy who can look after himself but the hounding and moaning about a speech by Nicky Morgan (I mean Nicky Morgan for goodness sake, who the hell cares what she said) was tedious, unpleasant and worst of all, seriously boring. It is putting me off coming here, I won't deny it.
    David, are you saying we should just let the government's fear campaign go unchallenged? It's absolutely stupid to say that backpacking or inter-railing will be more difficult in the case of Brexit, especially since inter-rail isn't anything to do with the EU and easy movement on the continent is Schengen, again something not to do with the EU.

    Morgan made a foolish comment, people said it was foolish and others denied it, despite the overwhelming evidence of it being a foolish comment.

    It seems rather silly to claim that Switzerland offering free medical treatment to EEA citizens has nothing to do with the EU.

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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,919
    Freggles FPT

    "I did an ERASMUS exchange year as a student, it was great, no tuition fees and a €3000 bursary for living costs. That will disappear if we Leave"

    No it won't. This is another myth that got killed long ago in spite of some people still trying to repeat it. There are 37 countries in the ERASMUS programme and only 28 in the EU (31 in the EEA). Obviously simple maths tells you that being a member of the EU or the EEA is not a prerequisite for being in the ERASMUS programme.
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    DavidL said:

    Patrick said:

    2 months to go - we can do this!

    Not if we keep having threads like the last one.

    Seriously, I am for Leave but I am not enjoying the comments from quite a number of my fellow Leavers, not at all. Richard Nabavi is a big boy who can look after himself but the hounding and moaning about a speech by Nicky Morgan (I mean Nicky Morgan for goodness sake, who the hell cares what she said) was tedious, unpleasant and worst of all, seriously boring. It is putting me off coming here, I won't deny it.
    There is plenty of that all around, the relentless hammering of people like Morgan is unattractive in the same way that kicking a puppy is, but the endless tedious Cameron fanboi ramping is just as boring and repellant, if I want to know the government view I only have to go to their website I dont need half a dozen people droning on here about how the government can do no wrong, and comically failing to see any fault in the current handling of the EU Referedum by HMG in the teeth of extensive evidence that is might be suboptimal for many voters.

    But the all time turn-off is the six-form common room debaters that think the peak of witty repartee is to look at someone's detailed posting, choose the most implausible possible reading of it and then reply with a fatuous one liner like "So you favour executing alcoholics do you?" Blurgh
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    taffys said:

    MaxPB said:

    I think that Remain have ramped up Project Fear way, way too early. It is already losing its impact on people and if they continue to ratchet it up Vote Leave can start putting out spoof posters "Vote Remain or a plague of frogs will descend on Britain" etc...

    Even my apolitical friends are noticing the increasing histrionics from the Remain side.

    For me, whenever Remain opens its mouth, it sounds like a bad parent trying to discipline an unruly child. Shrill, shouty, empty, overstated and illogical threats.

    Leave is scaremongering too, but the scares are subtler.

    Subtle in the sense that being whacked across the head by an iron bar is subtle?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3513072/Deadly-cost-open-borders-Damning-dossier-lists-catalogue-murders-rapes-committed-Britain-50-foreign-criminals-let-EU-rules.html


    Technically that isn't scaremongering - it's a fact about what has already happened.

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    watford30 said:

    "I did an ERASMUS exchange year as a student, it was great, no tuition fees and a €3000 bursary for living costs. That will disappear if we Leave. Colossal waste of money of course, but so are free TV licences for millionaires. " ~ Freggles

    Luckily for future little Freggles-s, a number of countries participate in ERASMUS that are not part of the EU.

    http://erasmus-plus.ro/erasmus-participating-countries-programme-erasmus-plus/

    Presumably Erasmus is funded by money that we all (including Freggles) pay into the EU, which is skimmed and recycled back to us. Some 'freebie'.
    Correct.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,919
    DavidL said:

    Patrick said:

    2 months to go - we can do this!

    Not if we keep having threads like the last one.

    Seriously, I am for Leave but I am not enjoying the comments from quite a number of my fellow Leavers, not at all. Richard Nabavi is a big boy who can look after himself but the hounding and moaning about a speech by Nicky Morgan (I mean Nicky Morgan for goodness sake, who the hell cares what she said) was tedious, unpleasant and worst of all, seriously boring. It is putting me off coming here, I won't deny it.
    In that case the obvious answer is to ask Richard not to keep defending the indefensible, not to criticise those who point out the idiocies of her speech.
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    taffys said:

    MaxPB said:

    I think that Remain have ramped up Project Fear way, way too early. It is already losing its impact on people and if they continue to ratchet it up Vote Leave can start putting out spoof posters "Vote Remain or a plague of frogs will descend on Britain" etc...

    Even my apolitical friends are noticing the increasing histrionics from the Remain side.

    For me, whenever Remain opens its mouth, it sounds like a bad parent trying to discipline an unruly child. Shrill, shouty, empty, overstated and illogical threats.

    Leave is scaremongering too, but the scares are subtler.

    Subtle in the sense that being whacked across the head by an iron bar is subtle?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3513072/Deadly-cost-open-borders-Damning-dossier-lists-catalogue-murders-rapes-committed-Britain-50-foreign-criminals-let-EU-rules.html


    Technically that isn't scaremongering - it's a fact about what has already happened.

    As a % of EU immigrants to the UK, what do those 50 criminals represent?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903
    edited March 2016
    Danny565 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Danny565 said:

    DavidL said:

    Patrick said:

    2 months to go - we can do this!

    Not if we keep having threads like the last one.

    Seriously, I am for Leave but I am not enjoying the comments from quite a number of my fellow Leavers, not at all. Richard Nabavi is a big boy who can look after himself but the hounding and moaning about a speech by Nicky Morgan (I mean Nicky Morgan for goodness sake, who the hell cares what she said) was tedious, unpleasant and worst of all, seriously boring. It is putting me off coming here, I won't deny it.
    Personally, I would like a filter where you have the option to "hide" all EU-related posts.
    Heh. How do you see Wisconsin going :) ?
    I would guess Bernie? Not a blowout but maybe by about 5/6% or so.

    Personally I have a sneaky feeling New York will be much closer than the polls are showing, though Clinton will probably edge it.
    The polling has it roughly even (Clinton marginally ahead) - 49.5% Sanders, my custom ;) demographic model has Sanders on 57.5%.

    He needs to be aiming for 63% according to my calcs :)

    I am currently laying him on Betfair ;p
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753

    taffys said:

    MaxPB said:

    I think that Remain have ramped up Project Fear way, way too early. It is already losing its impact on people and if they continue to ratchet it up Vote Leave can start putting out spoof posters "Vote Remain or a plague of frogs will descend on Britain" etc...

    Even my apolitical friends are noticing the increasing histrionics from the Remain side.

    For me, whenever Remain opens its mouth, it sounds like a bad parent trying to discipline an unruly child. Shrill, shouty, empty, overstated and illogical threats.

    Leave is scaremongering too, but the scares are subtler.

    Subtle in the sense that being whacked across the head by an iron bar is subtle?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3513072/Deadly-cost-open-borders-Damning-dossier-lists-catalogue-murders-rapes-committed-Britain-50-foreign-criminals-let-EU-rules.html


    Technically that isn't scaremongering - it's a fact about what has already happened.

    That's what I mean. Leave's scare here has some sort of link, however, tenuous, with something that has already happened.

    Fifty is a tiny handful, and reading through the list one is tempted so say, is that the best you can do?' but its quite powerful with some groups of voters nevertheless.
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    peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,875
    edited March 2016
    If LEAVE wins by a small margin, say by less than 3% - 4%, then I think Cameron would rightly be held to account for failing to deliver a REMAIN outcome, largely on account of the break-neck speed at which the deal was cobbled together, involving very little if any actual negotiation as such. I remain convinced that had he instead played hardball, with a further 18 months of his self-imposed timetable to play with, then a conspicuously better outcome could have been achieved.
    Like many others, I feel that the pros and cons between the two choices is a finely balanced one and it was the extremely thin gruel on offer which pushed me decisively, if without any great enthusiasm, into the LEAVE camp.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    To me it looks as though the gap is widening not getting tighter?

    Having just seen High Rise for the second time and thus being reminded of Thatcher that could be why my equilibrium is all over the place
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    Patrick said:

    2 months to go - we can do this!

    Not if we keep having threads like the last one.

    Seriously, I am for Leave but I am not enjoying the comments from quite a number of my fellow Leavers, not at all. Richard Nabavi is a big boy who can look after himself but the hounding and moaning about a speech by Nicky Morgan (I mean Nicky Morgan for goodness sake, who the hell cares what she said) was tedious, unpleasant and worst of all, seriously boring. It is putting me off coming here, I won't deny it.
    David, are you saying we should just let the government's fear campaign go unchallenged? It's absolutely stupid to say that backpacking or inter-railing will be more difficult in the case of Brexit, especially since inter-rail isn't anything to do with the EU and easy movement on the continent is Schengen, again something not to do with the EU.

    Morgan made a foolish comment, people said it was foolish and others denied it, despite the overwhelming evidence of it being a foolish comment.

    It seems rather silly to claim that Switzerland offering free medical treatment to EEA citizens has nothing to do with the EU.

    And yet implying that it would be impossible to have such an agreement or situation outside of the EU is just fine and dandy and shouldn't go unchallenged.
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    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    Sean_F said:

    Easy to say you'll vote to Leave now. When the date draws near and fear becomes real, I think a great many will return to Remain.

    Easy to say you'll vote to Leave now. When the date draws near and fear becomes real, I think a great many will return to Remain.

    Even I, occasionally, worry that we'll be viewed as some kind of pariah State if we vote Leave.
    There's a part of me that hopes Remain win 51/49, so I can have the satisfaction of saying I voted for independence and self-governance without experiencing any of the temporary disruption we would experience with a Leave vote.
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    Indigo said:

    Easy to say you'll vote to Leave now. When the date draws near and fear becomes real, I think a great many will return to Remain.

    I think a great many will sit on the sofa.
    I am expecting many Labour voters to do this.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,131
    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    Patrick said:

    2 months to go - we can do this!

    Not if we keep having threads like the last one.

    Seriously, I am for Leave but I am not enjoying the comments from quite a number of my fellow Leavers, not at all. Richard Nabavi is a big boy who can look after himself but the hounding and moaning about a speech by Nicky Morgan (I mean Nicky Morgan for goodness sake, who the hell cares what she said) was tedious, unpleasant and worst of all, seriously boring. It is putting me off coming here, I won't deny it.
    David, are you saying we should just let the government's fear campaign go unchallenged? It's absolutely stupid to say that backpacking or inter-railing will be more difficult in the case of Brexit, especially since inter-rail isn't anything to do with the EU and easy movement on the continent is Schengen, again something not to do with the EU.

    Morgan made a foolish comment, people said it was foolish and others denied it, despite the overwhelming evidence of it being a foolish comment.
    One last time.

    She claimed that the youth of today feel much more European than their parents and grandparents did. They don't regard going to the EU as going abroad at all. They expect the same services, she might have mentioned medical care, she might have mentioned mobile phone tariffs, she might have had in mind Schengen and the lack of visas, whatever.

    It's a point of view. I don't agree with it. I don't share it. I don't want to spend hours doing a syntactical analysis of what she said or have other people doing it on my half. She is just not that interesting, she really isn't.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,919

    taffys said:

    MaxPB said:

    I think that Remain have ramped up Project Fear way, way too early. It is already losing its impact on people and if they continue to ratchet it up Vote Leave can start putting out spoof posters "Vote Remain or a plague of frogs will descend on Britain" etc...

    Even my apolitical friends are noticing the increasing histrionics from the Remain side.

    For me, whenever Remain opens its mouth, it sounds like a bad parent trying to discipline an unruly child. Shrill, shouty, empty, overstated and illogical threats.

    Leave is scaremongering too, but the scares are subtler.

    Subtle in the sense that being whacked across the head by an iron bar is subtle?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3513072/Deadly-cost-open-borders-Damning-dossier-lists-catalogue-murders-rapes-committed-Britain-50-foreign-criminals-let-EU-rules.html

    Stupid and, I would hope, counter productive. Not being a reader of the Daily Mail I always used to think the Left were over the top in their attacks on it. The longer this campaign goes on the more I realise they were right all along (the Left I mean, not the Mail).
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    taffys said:

    taffys said:

    MaxPB said:

    I think that Remain have ramped up Project Fear way, way too early. It is already losing its impact on people and if they continue to ratchet it up Vote Leave can start putting out spoof posters "Vote Remain or a plague of frogs will descend on Britain" etc...

    Even my apolitical friends are noticing the increasing histrionics from the Remain side.

    For me, whenever Remain opens its mouth, it sounds like a bad parent trying to discipline an unruly child. Shrill, shouty, empty, overstated and illogical threats.

    Leave is scaremongering too, but the scares are subtler.

    Subtle in the sense that being whacked across the head by an iron bar is subtle?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3513072/Deadly-cost-open-borders-Damning-dossier-lists-catalogue-murders-rapes-committed-Britain-50-foreign-criminals-let-EU-rules.html


    Technically that isn't scaremongering - it's a fact about what has already happened.

    That's what I mean. Leave's scare here has some sort of link, however, tenuous, with something that has already happened.

    Fifty is a tiny handful, and reading through the list one is tempted so say, is that the best you can do?' but its quite powerful with some groups of voters nevertheless.
    If leave were truly scaremongering they would be saying something like 'the EU will one day take your house, and put a Belgian in it - or - 'One day all our police will be German'

    That would be remain type scaremongering.
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    taffys said:

    MaxPB said:

    I think that Remain have ramped up Project Fear way, way too early. It is already losing its impact on people and if they continue to ratchet it up Vote Leave can start putting out spoof posters "Vote Remain or a plague of frogs will descend on Britain" etc...

    Even my apolitical friends are noticing the increasing histrionics from the Remain side.

    For me, whenever Remain opens its mouth, it sounds like a bad parent trying to discipline an unruly child. Shrill, shouty, empty, overstated and illogical threats.

    Leave is scaremongering too, but the scares are subtler.

    Subtle in the sense that being whacked across the head by an iron bar is subtle?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3513072/Deadly-cost-open-borders-Damning-dossier-lists-catalogue-murders-rapes-committed-Britain-50-foreign-criminals-let-EU-rules.html


    Technically that isn't scaremongering - it's a fact about what has already happened.

    As a % of EU immigrants to the UK, what do those 50 criminals represent?

    These are the most serious, so I'm not sure what the overall increased number of victims of crime from all criminals who have come to this country is, but it would likely be statistically significant.

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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,914

    taffys said:

    MaxPB said:

    I think that Remain have ramped up Project Fear way, way too early. It is already losing its impact on people and if they continue to ratchet it up Vote Leave can start putting out spoof posters "Vote Remain or a plague of frogs will descend on Britain" etc...

    Even my apolitical friends are noticing the increasing histrionics from the Remain side.

    For me, whenever Remain opens its mouth, it sounds like a bad parent trying to discipline an unruly child. Shrill, shouty, empty, overstated and illogical threats.

    Leave is scaremongering too, but the scares are subtler.

    Subtle in the sense that being whacked across the head by an iron bar is subtle?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3513072/Deadly-cost-open-borders-Damning-dossier-lists-catalogue-murders-rapes-committed-Britain-50-foreign-criminals-let-EU-rules.html


    Technically that isn't scaremongering - it's a fact about what has already happened.

    "50 foreign criminals who were let in under EU rules"

    That is scaremongering. They would not have needed visas or background checks to enter the UK if we were not members of the EU.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903

    Indigo said:

    Easy to say you'll vote to Leave now. When the date draws near and fear becomes real, I think a great many will return to Remain.

    I think a great many will sit on the sofa.
    I am expecting many Labour voters to do this.
    Labour "voters" are absolute masters of sitting on the sofa, as Ed found out :)
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,919
    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    Patrick said:

    2 months to go - we can do this!

    Not if we keep having threads like the last one.

    Seriously, I am for Leave but I am not enjoying the comments from quite a number of my fellow Leavers, not at all. Richard Nabavi is a big boy who can look after himself but the hounding and moaning about a speech by Nicky Morgan (I mean Nicky Morgan for goodness sake, who the hell cares what she said) was tedious, unpleasant and worst of all, seriously boring. It is putting me off coming here, I won't deny it.
    David, are you saying we should just let the government's fear campaign go unchallenged? It's absolutely stupid to say that backpacking or inter-railing will be more difficult in the case of Brexit, especially since inter-rail isn't anything to do with the EU and easy movement on the continent is Schengen, again something not to do with the EU.

    Morgan made a foolish comment, people said it was foolish and others denied it, despite the overwhelming evidence of it being a foolish comment.
    One last time.

    She claimed that the youth of today feel much more European than their parents and grandparents did. They don't regard going to the EU as going abroad at all. They expect the same services, she might have mentioned medical care, she might have mentioned mobile phone tariffs, she might have had in mind Schengen and the lack of visas, whatever.

    It's a point of view. I don't agree with it. I don't share it. I don't want to spend hours doing a syntactical analysis of what she said or have other people doing it on my half. She is just not that interesting, she really isn't.
    And as I said on the previous thread that is not what she was doing. She was trying to reinforce those perceptions by propagating a whole series of misleading claims and outright myths. Now that is a perfectly valid campaign tool but it is also then valid for the Leave campaign to point out that her statements are misleading and untrue.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,914
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    Patrick said:

    2 months to go - we can do this!

    Not if we keep having threads like the last one.

    Seriously, I am for Leave but I am not enjoying the comments from quite a number of my fellow Leavers, not at all. Richard Nabavi is a big boy who can look after himself but the hounding and moaning about a speech by Nicky Morgan (I mean Nicky Morgan for goodness sake, who the hell cares what she said) was tedious, unpleasant and worst of all, seriously boring. It is putting me off coming here, I won't deny it.
    David, are you saying we should just let the government's fear campaign go unchallenged? It's absolutely stupid to say that backpacking or inter-railing will be more difficult in the case of Brexit, especially since inter-rail isn't anything to do with the EU and easy movement on the continent is Schengen, again something not to do with the EU.

    Morgan made a foolish comment, people said it was foolish and others denied it, despite the overwhelming evidence of it being a foolish comment.

    It seems rather silly to claim that Switzerland offering free medical treatment to EEA citizens has nothing to do with the EU.

    And yet implying that it would be impossible to have such an agreement or situation outside of the EU is just fine and dandy and shouldn't go unchallenged.

    She said that EU membership had made it easier to travel in Europe. This looks like a pretty decent example to me. Saying that does not imply it could not be done outside the EU. But I wonder how many non-EEA member states Switzerland has similar arrangements with. I imagine it is not many.

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    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    DavidL said:

    Patrick said:

    2 months to go - we can do this!

    Not if we keep having threads like the last one.

    Seriously, I am for Leave but I am not enjoying the comments from quite a number of my fellow Leavers, not at all. Richard Nabavi is a big boy who can look after himself but the hounding and moaning about a speech by Nicky Morgan (I mean Nicky Morgan for goodness sake, who the hell cares what she said) was tedious, unpleasant and worst of all, seriously boring. It is putting me off coming here, I won't deny it.
    The site has become very unpleasant and I too now rarely post. It is a pity but there you go.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    North Koreans would nuke us, oh Remain used that already.
    taffys said:

    taffys said:

    taffys said:

    MaxPB said:

    I think that Remain have ramped up Project Fear way, way too early. It is already losing its impact on people and if they continue to ratchet it up Vote Leave can start putting out spoof posters "Vote Remain or a plague of frogs will descend on Britain" etc...

    Even my apolitical friends are noticing the increasing histrionics from the Remain side.

    For me, whenever Remain opens its mouth, it sounds like a bad parent trying to discipline an unruly child. Shrill, shouty, empty, overstated and illogical threats.

    Leave is scaremongering too, but the scares are subtler.

    Subtle in the sense that being whacked across the head by an iron bar is subtle?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3513072/Deadly-cost-open-borders-Damning-dossier-lists-catalogue-murders-rapes-committed-Britain-50-foreign-criminals-let-EU-rules.html


    Technically that isn't scaremongering - it's a fact about what has already happened.

    That's what I mean. Leave's scare here has some sort of link, however, tenuous, with something that has already happened.

    Fifty is a tiny handful, and reading through the list one is tempted so say, is that the best you can do?' but its quite powerful with some groups of voters nevertheless.
    If leave were truly scaremongering they would be saying something like 'the EU will one day take your house, and put a Belgian in it - or - 'One day all our police will be German'

    That would be remain type scaremongering.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,969
    Mr. Pulpstar, must be hard, being on the left. Five years of Ed Miliband, now Labour's led by the Corbyn.
  • Options

    taffys said:

    MaxPB said:

    I think that Remain have ramped up Project Fear way, way too early. It is already losing its impact on people and if they continue to ratchet it up Vote Leave can start putting out spoof posters "Vote Remain or a plague of frogs will descend on Britain" etc...

    Even my apolitical friends are noticing the increasing histrionics from the Remain side.

    For me, whenever Remain opens its mouth, it sounds like a bad parent trying to discipline an unruly child. Shrill, shouty, empty, overstated and illogical threats.

    Leave is scaremongering too, but the scares are subtler.

    Subtle in the sense that being whacked across the head by an iron bar is subtle?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3513072/Deadly-cost-open-borders-Damning-dossier-lists-catalogue-murders-rapes-committed-Britain-50-foreign-criminals-let-EU-rules.html

    Stupid and, I would hope, counter productive. Not being a reader of the Daily Mail I always used to think the Left were over the top in their attacks on it. The longer this campaign goes on the more I realise they were right all along (the Left I mean, not the Mail).
    Yes we may not like it but are we in one of the key groups that could be influenced by it?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903
    edited March 2016
    @Danny565 A foretaste of New York.... http://bipartisanreport.com/2016/03/28/just-in-arizona-congressman-publicly-announces-that-election-fraud-occurred/

    Betting on Hillary to beat Sanders feels a bit like cheering on Man United when the minnow was 3-0 down and is now at 3-1 10 minutes into the second half hoping to take the game to an unlikely replay.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    MaxPB said:

    And yet implying that it would be impossible to have such an agreement or situation outside of the EU is just fine and dandy and shouldn't go unchallenged.

    It's part and parcel of the EU's free movement of people, objection to which is Leave's most potent argument. They can hardly complain if the Remain side take them at their word when they say they want 'control of our borders'.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753

    taffys said:

    MaxPB said:

    I think that Remain have ramped up Project Fear way, way too early. It is already losing its impact on people and if they continue to ratchet it up Vote Leave can start putting out spoof posters "Vote Remain or a plague of frogs will descend on Britain" etc...

    Even my apolitical friends are noticing the increasing histrionics from the Remain side.

    For me, whenever Remain opens its mouth, it sounds like a bad parent trying to discipline an unruly child. Shrill, shouty, empty, overstated and illogical threats.

    Leave is scaremongering too, but the scares are subtler.

    Subtle in the sense that being whacked across the head by an iron bar is subtle?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3513072/Deadly-cost-open-borders-Damning-dossier-lists-catalogue-murders-rapes-committed-Britain-50-foreign-criminals-let-EU-rules.html


    Technically that isn't scaremongering - it's a fact about what has already happened.

    "50 foreign criminals who were let in under EU rules"

    That is scaremongering. They would not have needed visas or background checks to enter the UK if we were not members of the EU.
    Honestly claiming that is assuming a big number of ifs and buts. IF we had an Australian points style system, something that is complete anathema to remain for some reason, they would not have got within a thousand miles of Blighty.

    Remainers seem to think its a GOOD thing that some bad eggs get in with the good. Largely, I guess, because they are pretty well off and don;t have to live alongside these miscreants.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    OT the premium bonds prize cut announced today looks at first glance like the Treasury hitting unsophisticated savers, which might be courageous.
  • Options
    What a bunch of utter shitbags.

    Two soldiers who brutally beat up two disabled teenagers 'for entertainment' have been sentenced to more than 15 years at Merthyr Crown Court.

    http://www.itv.com/news/wales/2016-03-29/soldiers-jailed-for-beating-up-disabled-teenagers-in-brutal-attack/
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,267

    If LEAVE wins by a small margin, say by less than 3% - 4%, then I think Cameron would rightly be held to account for failing to deliver a REMAIN outcome, largely on account of the break-neck speed at which the deal was cobbled together, involving very little if any actual negotiation as such. I remain convinced that had he instead played hardball, with a further 18 months of his self-imposed timetable to play with, then a conspicuously better outcome could have been achieved.
    Like many others, I feel that the pros and cons between the two choices is a finely balanced one and it was the extremely thin gruel on offer which pushed me decisively, if without any great enthusiasm, into the LEAVE camp.

    The gamble will probably pay off but I can't help thinking Dave should have taken Lynton's advice, publicly said the deal ain't good enough and then run the referendum in 2017 once he'd got a a couple more concessions. He could then have said he's recommending Remain and will watch to see if the EU sticks to and implements the deal; if it doesn't he would be open to revisiting the issue in the future.

    I think he'd be in a better place than now although I accept it would have prolonged the uncertainty and risk of 'events'.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    Patrick said:

    2 months to go - we can do this!

    Not if we keep having threads like the last one.

    Seriously, I am for Leave but I am not enjoying the comments from quite a number of my fellow Leavers, not at all. Richard Nabavi is a big boy who can look after himself but the hounding and moaning about a speech by Nicky Morgan (I mean Nicky Morgan for goodness sake, who the hell cares what she said) was tedious, unpleasant and worst of all, seriously boring. It is putting me off coming here, I won't deny it.
    David, are you saying we should just let the government's fear campaign go unchallenged? It's absolutely stupid to say that backpacking or inter-railing will be more difficult in the case of Brexit, especially since inter-rail isn't anything to do with the EU and easy movement on the continent is Schengen, again something not to do with the EU.

    Morgan made a foolish comment, people said it was foolish and others denied it, despite the overwhelming evidence of it being a foolish comment.
    One last time.

    She claimed that the youth of today feel much more European than their parents and grandparents did. They don't regard going to the EU as going abroad at all. They expect the same services, she might have mentioned medical care, she might have mentioned mobile phone tariffs, she might have had in mind Schengen and the lack of visas, whatever.

    It's a point of view. I don't agree with it. I don't share it. I don't want to spend hours doing a syntactical analysis of what she said or have other people doing it on my half. She is just not that interesting, she really isn't.
    It's possible, but it is also possible that she was purposefully conflating Europe with the EU, something Remain have tried to do on numerous occasions given that the former is popular and the latter is not. I think it's important that Leave ensure that the two are not conflated. I agree that arguing endlessly about it on here won't make any difference though.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited March 2016

    OT the premium bonds prize cut announced today looks at first glance like the Treasury hitting unsophisticated savers, which might be courageous.

    Was another of Gordo's favourites.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    AP
    US orders families of US diplomats, military personnel to leave posts in southern Turkey due to security fears: https://t.co/Fw8RVgmi8S
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,919

    taffys said:

    MaxPB said:

    I think that Remain have ramped up Project Fear way, way too early. It is already losing its impact on people and if they continue to ratchet it up Vote Leave can start putting out spoof posters "Vote Remain or a plague of frogs will descend on Britain" etc...

    Even my apolitical friends are noticing the increasing histrionics from the Remain side.

    For me, whenever Remain opens its mouth, it sounds like a bad parent trying to discipline an unruly child. Shrill, shouty, empty, overstated and illogical threats.

    Leave is scaremongering too, but the scares are subtler.

    Subtle in the sense that being whacked across the head by an iron bar is subtle?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3513072/Deadly-cost-open-borders-Damning-dossier-lists-catalogue-murders-rapes-committed-Britain-50-foreign-criminals-let-EU-rules.html


    Technically that isn't scaremongering - it's a fact about what has already happened.

    As a % of EU immigrants to the UK, what do those 50 criminals represent?
    I bet a half decent journalist could find 50 examples of foreign criminals in Britain for reasons that have nothing to do with the EU.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    edited March 2016

    MaxPB said:

    And yet implying that it would be impossible to have such an agreement or situation outside of the EU is just fine and dandy and shouldn't go unchallenged.

    It's part and parcel of the EU's free movement of people, objection to which is Leave's most potent argument. They can hardly complain if the Remain side take them at their word when they say they want 'control of our borders'.
    Remains argument seems to be that control of our borders is, in essence, impossible. We are powerless. All we can do is put an arm around those affected negatively by immigration.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,969
    Mr. Eagles, that sounds utterly despicable.

    Mr. Max, that does irk me.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited March 2016
    runnymede said:

    'Even I, occasionally, worry that we'll be viewed as some kind of pariah State if we vote Leave'

    Well that was true after King Henry VIII broke with Rome, but it was 100% the right decision to do so.

    Unless you were one of the unfortunates who lost his/her head. This though is the problem with the Referendum. Nearly everyone really affected by the decision is pro Remain.

    Those with a sentimental attachment to warm beer cricket on the village green and other notions of times gone by are for 'Leave'. Fortunately the motivation to vote is going to be much stronger among those to whom it makes a serious difference
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    The Fix
    @MichelleFields you are totally delusional. I never touched you. As a matter of fact, I have never even met you.

    ttps://twitter.com/CNBCnow/status/714832840425385986

  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Not scaremongering...

    @SunNewsdesk: Free to kill: Europe let 45 thugs into Britain who went on to murder, rape and GBH https://t.co/t4zl5m9DpC https://t.co/093Leeujim
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,919
    taffys said:

    taffys said:

    MaxPB said:

    I think that Remain have ramped up Project Fear way, way too early. It is already losing its impact on people and if they continue to ratchet it up Vote Leave can start putting out spoof posters "Vote Remain or a plague of frogs will descend on Britain" etc...

    Even my apolitical friends are noticing the increasing histrionics from the Remain side.

    For me, whenever Remain opens its mouth, it sounds like a bad parent trying to discipline an unruly child. Shrill, shouty, empty, overstated and illogical threats.

    Leave is scaremongering too, but the scares are subtler.

    Subtle in the sense that being whacked across the head by an iron bar is subtle?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3513072/Deadly-cost-open-borders-Damning-dossier-lists-catalogue-murders-rapes-committed-Britain-50-foreign-criminals-let-EU-rules.html


    Technically that isn't scaremongering - it's a fact about what has already happened.

    That's what I mean. Leave's scare here has some sort of link, however, tenuous, with something that has already happened.

    Fifty is a tiny handful, and reading through the list one is tempted so say, is that the best you can do?' but its quite powerful with some groups of voters nevertheless.
    Talking about the war and deceitful Frenchies and cowardly Italians and all the other idiotic stereotypes would also be quite powerful with some voters. It doesn't mean it is a valid argument or one that Leave should pursue.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited March 2016
    Apparently the plane hijacker was wearing a fake suicide vest.
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Just heard Nicky Morgan on the local radio,she said the job market for young people is slowing up because of the uncertainty over our membership of the EU.

    Nothing to do with Government policies then,example the new government national living wage.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903

    Mr. Eagles, that sounds utterly despicable.

    Mr. Max, that does irk me.

    This is the Lewandowski/Fields issue.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,924

    taffys said:

    MaxPB said:

    I think that Remain have ramped up Project Fear way, way too early. It is already losing its impact on people and if they continue to ratchet it up Vote Leave can start putting out spoof posters "Vote Remain or a plague of frogs will descend on Britain" etc...

    Even my apolitical friends are noticing the increasing histrionics from the Remain side.

    For me, whenever Remain opens its mouth, it sounds like a bad parent trying to discipline an unruly child. Shrill, shouty, empty, overstated and illogical threats.

    Leave is scaremongering too, but the scares are subtler.

    Subtle in the sense that being whacked across the head by an iron bar is subtle?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3513072/Deadly-cost-open-borders-Damning-dossier-lists-catalogue-murders-rapes-committed-Britain-50-foreign-criminals-let-EU-rules.html


    Technically that isn't scaremongering - it's a fact about what has already happened.

    As a % of EU immigrants to the UK, what do those 50 criminals represent?
    I bet a half decent journalist could find 50 examples of foreign criminals in Britain for reasons that have nothing to do with the EU.
    I wonder how many British criminals are holed up in Spain, continuing their activities. There was, IIRC a certain Welsh cannabis trader who was quite open about it, even to the extent of writing books.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753

    taffys said:

    taffys said:

    MaxPB said:

    I think that Remain have ramped up Project Fear way, way too early. It is already losing its impact on people and if they continue to ratchet it up Vote Leave can start putting out spoof posters "Vote Remain or a plague of frogs will descend on Britain" etc...

    Even my apolitical friends are noticing the increasing histrionics from the Remain side.

    For me, whenever Remain opens its mouth, it sounds like a bad parent trying to discipline an unruly child. Shrill, shouty, empty, overstated and illogical threats.

    Leave is scaremongering too, but the scares are subtler.

    Subtle in the sense that being whacked across the head by an iron bar is subtle?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3513072/Deadly-cost-open-borders-Damning-dossier-lists-catalogue-murders-rapes-committed-Britain-50-foreign-criminals-let-EU-rules.html


    Technically that isn't scaremongering - it's a fact about what has already happened.

    That's what I mean. Leave's scare here has some sort of link, however, tenuous, with something that has already happened.

    Fifty is a tiny handful, and reading through the list one is tempted so say, is that the best you can do?' but its quite powerful with some groups of voters nevertheless.
    Talking about the war and deceitful Frenchies and cowardly Italians and all the other idiotic stereotypes would also be quite powerful with some voters. It doesn't mean it is a valid argument or one that Leave should pursue.
    Well true, but in comparing leave's arguments with remains, I am simply arguing I think Leave's are having the more impact.
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    IIRC, OGH mentioned that further Hills-sponsored PB.com competitions would likely take place during the lead up to the referendum vote on 23 June.
    I'm not so much bothered about the prize money, bearing in mind it's very much of a longshot any way, but well before the first such competition was announced, I requested that a supplementary question be included, asking entrants to state whether their referendum voting intention had changed, and if so in which direction over the previous say three months. Such a question was never in fact incorporated, but I live in hope that it might be next time around, which could provide valuable trend information in relation to the betting markets.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,969
    edited March 2016
    Incidentally, did anyone watch Maigret? Just wondering whether it was any good.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274

    taffys said:

    MaxPB said:

    I think that Remain have ramped up Project Fear way, way too early. It is already losing its impact on people and if they continue to ratchet it up Vote Leave can start putting out spoof posters "Vote Remain or a plague of frogs will descend on Britain" etc...

    Even my apolitical friends are noticing the increasing histrionics from the Remain side.

    For me, whenever Remain opens its mouth, it sounds like a bad parent trying to discipline an unruly child. Shrill, shouty, empty, overstated and illogical threats.

    Leave is scaremongering too, but the scares are subtler.

    Subtle in the sense that being whacked across the head by an iron bar is subtle?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3513072/Deadly-cost-open-borders-Damning-dossier-lists-catalogue-murders-rapes-committed-Britain-50-foreign-criminals-let-EU-rules.html


    Technically that isn't scaremongering - it's a fact about what has already happened.

    As a % of EU immigrants to the UK, what do those 50 criminals represent?
    I bet a half decent journalist could find 50 examples of foreign criminals in Britain for reasons that have nothing to do with the EU.
    I wonder how many British criminals are holed up in Spain, continuing their activities. There was, IIRC a certain Welsh cannabis trader who was quite open about it, even to the extent of writing books.
    There is British ex-con who specializes in providing legal defence for them and he is very very busy.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903
    Here is the battery incident by the way:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pd1vWYr51tk
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,969
    Mr. Pulpstar, could you explain that comparison, please.

    Mr. Urquhart, outrageous behaviour. The only appropriate place to wear such a thing is on a police-approved and protected march through the centre of London, surely?
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    taffys said:

    MaxPB said:

    I think that Remain have ramped up Project Fear way, way too early. It is already losing its impact on people and if they continue to ratchet it up Vote Leave can start putting out spoof posters "Vote Remain or a plague of frogs will descend on Britain" etc...

    Even my apolitical friends are noticing the increasing histrionics from the Remain side.

    For me, whenever Remain opens its mouth, it sounds like a bad parent trying to discipline an unruly child. Shrill, shouty, empty, overstated and illogical threats.

    Leave is scaremongering too, but the scares are subtler.

    Subtle in the sense that being whacked across the head by an iron bar is subtle?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3513072/Deadly-cost-open-borders-Damning-dossier-lists-catalogue-murders-rapes-committed-Britain-50-foreign-criminals-let-EU-rules.html


    Technically that isn't scaremongering - it's a fact about what has already happened.

    As a % of EU immigrants to the UK, what do those 50 criminals represent?
    A disingenuous comparison.

    Its conspicuously 50 more murders and rapes than would have happened if they had not be let into the country. It would also be enlightening to know if EU Immigrants on average commit more or less rapes and murder per capita than UK citizens.
This discussion has been closed.