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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Nicky Morgan’s academy plan could boost her leadership hope

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited April 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Nicky Morgan’s academy plan could boost her leadership hopes – or kill them stone dead

Nicky Morgan reckons she has what it takes to be Tory leader. She put her name on the board last October and followed it up with a declaration in February that it would be “a big mistake if Tory members were offered a choice between “two white men”, when David Cameron steps down.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    Filth! Froth! Forth! First!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    Second like a good Scottish Tory!
  • EstobarEstobar Posts: 558
    edited April 2016
    I don't usually go near ConWoman but this is a pretty good hatchet job on Nicky Morgan by Rob Slane:
    http://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/rob-slane-perhaps-the-witless-platitudinous-nicky-morgan-is-right-our-kids-minds-have-turned-to-lefty-mush/

    "The Education Secretary, Nicky Morgan, has now waded into the debate on EU membership, bringing with her just about every device from the toolbox of the modern career politician: good use of emotive scaremongering, lots of high sounding but meaningless platitudes, all topped with a good drizzle of disingenuous nonsense."

    Well, quite.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited April 2016
    Has news of Mr JackW's secret Panamanian leaked shoe account been published yet? ...

    I told her leaky shoes were too close to LibDem sandals and no good would come of it ... her beard is coming on a treat though - very trendy .. :smile:
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Estobar said:

    I don't usually go near ConWoman but this is a pretty good hatchet job on Nicky Morgan by Rob Slane:
    http://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/rob-slane-perhaps-the-witless-platitudinous-nicky-morgan-is-right-our-kids-minds-have-turned-to-lefty-mush/

    "The Education Secretary, Nicky Morgan, has now waded into the debate on EU membership, bringing with her just about every device from the toolbox of the modern career politician: good use of emotive scaremongering, lots of high sounding but meaningless platitudes, all topped with a good drizzle of disingenuous nonsense."

    Well, quite.

    Most of the BTL commenters on that Con Woman article seem to have masculine names.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,022
    NMWNBPM
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    "Ideological" Conservatism rarely works - Tories are nothing if not pragmatists (including, for all her (and fanboy) rhetoric, Thatcher) - and this feels more like 'marks for neatness and consistency' than 'a well thought through good idea....."
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited April 2016
    Nicky Morgan.. Erm, No.

    The least able and most housetrained minister and that is against some strong competition. She also has the charisma of a rock. This is the minister that said:
    we need to promote tolerance of beliefs and ideas even if we strongly disapprove of them
    So like ISIS then ? and presided over this sort of horse shit from OFSTED:
    Middle Rasen Primary School has been penalised for being too English. Ofsted judged the school “good” rather than “outstanding”, partly on the basis that pupils were deemed to lack “first hand experience of the diverse make-up of modern British society”. The 104 pupils at the school are 97 per cent white with very few from ethnic minority groups. They all speak English as their first language. This is no fault of the school. It simply reflects its rural catchment area.
    Then there is this, assigning too much import to ovary count, and not enough to basic economic literacy:
    http://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/laura-perrins-morgan-plays-the-uterus-card-but-she-doesnt-get-my-vote/

    Quite. If there is a need for ovaries on the ticket, there are far more talented woman in the party, although I would prefer it if we could look at talent irrespective of genitalia.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Never in a million years as far as I'm concerned. Strange Stepford wife TV manner and an inch deep.

    If I've understood her All Must Be Academies diktat, it undermines the whole point of parental power. Far too early in the roll out, fine if it's just clearing up a few stragglers but even then I'm not too convinced.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Over 10% in Wisconsin who voted early:

    Sanders 52%
    Clinton 38%

    @EmersonPolling
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited April 2016
    Very Private Eye. I thought for a very brief moment you were being serious about Nicky Morgan. It does remind us that while the government is imploding over the referendum it's still managing to wreak havoc esewhere

    I liked the way you managed to slip 'Jeremy Hunt' in for comparative purposes though I think you could have moved him from the 'hapless' column to the 'beleaguered' one. I can only think his 1% support with Conservative Home was a rounding error?

    To remind us that Labour have their own crackpots by introducing Lucy 'Edstone' 'Powell was smart. There has been some criticism of unbalanced headers lately.

    Then back with Graham Brady (known even to his his footballer wife Hale constituents as 'Thicko') and on to the governments 'defeats and retreats' then ending with George and his "megashambles budget"..........

    .......altogether an ejoyable and well rounded piece





  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Britain’s steel industry is set to be saved from collapse by two little-known financiers who hope to revive the "British Steel" name, The Telegraph can disclose.

    Marc and Nathaniel Meyohas, two brothers behind investment firm Greybull, are putting the finishing touches to buy the Scunthorpe steelworks from Tata, pumping £400m into the struggling plant and saving a total of around 9,000 local jobs. The deal is set to be announced as early as Wednesday. City sources believe the entrepreneurs could then look at a possible deal to save the iconic Port Talbot plant in south Wales.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/04/03/meyohas-brothers-poised-to-buy-tata-steels-struggling-scunthorpe/
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517
    From the comments below, it seems that the Labourites and leaver 'Conservatives' are against her.

    She must be doing something right!
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited April 2016
    Indigo


    "Uterus genitalia and ovaries..."

    Is it really beyond the wit of posters on here to find a more original and less cliched way to express the the difference between men and women?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    JackW said:

    Has news of Mr JackW's secret Panamanian leaked shoe account been published yet? ...

    I told her leaky shoes were too close to LibDem sandals and no good would come of it ... her beard is coming on a treat though - very trendy .. :smile:

    The Panamanian government, in their infinite wisdom, have classified any information about Mr. Jack W's secret shoe account as "Ultra Secret"... and thus weren't ever recorded on computer disk. Fear not, the secret is safe ;)
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    On topic.. NiMo as PM? The ultimate definition of QTWTAIN?
  • The announcement on Academies looks like an Osborne stunt. The fact that Morgan allowed him to do it gives the impression that she is a weak Minister, promoted for her loyalty to Osborne and not on ability.
  • From the comments below, it seems that the Labourites and leaver 'Conservatives' are against her.

    She must be doing something right!

    You were a LEAVER conservative, has something changed?
  • JohnLoony said:

    Filth! Froth! Forth! First!

    Good to see you posting again Mr. Loony after a lengthy absence from PB.com.
  • rogerhrogerh Posts: 282
    If academies are such a great idea why then has there been no mention replacing private schools by academies.Or is Eton(and the whole private sector )worried about falling stabhdrds if they are academised?
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,401
    Skipping Don's invective, there is a serious point here. Morgan might think she has what it takes to be leader but no-one else does. Reducing choice in education (as anywhere) is unlikely to drive up standards and not all LEAs are useless bureacracies. I expect that the big bang plan will be dropped. No small number of the grass roots are involved inlocal government or as school governors, after all.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Nicky Morgan has a very good reputation in Loughborough as a constituency MP. She turned a bellwether midlands marginal seat into a comfortable Tory majority. Without wanting to rub salt in NickP's wounds, much like Broxtowe.

    I don't think she has the depth to be leader, but do not despise her politics. It wins elections, while Farage consistently loses.

  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,401
    Roger said:

    Very Private Eye. I thought for a very brief moment you were being serious about Nicky Morgan. It does remind us that while the government is imploding over the referendum it's still managing to wreak havoc esewhere

    I liked the way you managed to slip 'Jeremy Hunt' in for comparative purposes though I think you could have moved him from the 'hapless' column to the 'beleaguered' one. I can only think his 1% support with Conservative Home was a rounding error?

    To remind us that Labour have their own crackpots by introducing Lucy 'Edstone' 'Powell was smart. There has been some criticism of unbalanced headers lately.

    Then back with Graham Brady (known even to his his footballer wife Hale constituents as 'Thicko') and on to the governments 'defeats and retreats' then ending with George and his "megashambles budget"..........

    .......altogether an ejoyable and well rounded piece

    Hunt has a serious chance. Taking on, and beating, the health unions always goes down well.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Roger said:

    Very Private Eye. I thought for a very brief moment you were being serious about Nicky Morgan. It does remind us that while the government is imploding over the referendum it's still managing to wreak havoc esewhere

    I liked the way you managed to slip 'Jeremy Hunt' in for comparative purposes though I think you could have moved him from the 'hapless' column to the 'beleaguered' one. I can only think his 1% support with Conservative Home was a rounding error?

    To remind us that Labour have their own crackpots by introducing Lucy 'Edstone' 'Powell was smart. There has been some criticism of unbalanced headers lately.

    Then back with Graham Brady (known even to his his footballer wife Hale constituents as 'Thicko') and on to the governments 'defeats and retreats' then ending with George and his "megashambles budget"..........

    .......altogether an ejoyable and well rounded piece

    Hunt has a serious chance. Taking on, and beating, the health unions always goes down well.
    I have a few quid on him at good odds, but he has not yet beaten the Union, and if he does it will be a very hollow one. There will be many vacant posts particularly in acute services, and a workforce that is demoralised and resentful. Not what the NHS needs.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,401

    Nicky Morgan has a very good reputation in Loughborough as a constituency MP. She turned a bellwether midlands marginal seat into a comfortable Tory majority. Without wanting to rub salt in NickP's wounds, much like Broxtowe.

    I don't think she has the depth to be leader, but do not despise her politics. It wins elections, while Farage consistently loses.

    You could say the same of MPs from all sorts of ideological backgrounds. Tim Farron has perhaps done more than anyone to build a local powerbase but it doesn't mean that the opportunist gobby so and so should be PM.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited April 2016

    Roger said:

    Very Private Eye. I thought for a very brief moment you were being serious about Nicky Morgan. It does remind us that while the government is imploding over the referendum it's still managing to wreak havoc esewhere

    I liked the way you managed to slip 'Jeremy Hunt' in for comparative purposes though I think you could have moved him from the 'hapless' column to the 'beleaguered' one. I can only think his 1% support with Conservative Home was a rounding error?

    To remind us that Labour have their own crackpots by introducing Lucy 'Edstone' 'Powell was smart. There has been some criticism of unbalanced headers lately.

    Then back with Graham Brady (known even to his his footballer wife Hale constituents as 'Thicko') and on to the governments 'defeats and retreats' then ending with George and his "megashambles budget"..........

    .......altogether an ejoyable and well rounded piece

    Hunt has a serious chance. Taking on, and beating, the health unions always goes down well.
    Does Hunt go down well with Conservative-leaning doctors (which is, presumably, most of them)?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Nicky Morgan has a very good reputation in Loughborough as a constituency MP. She turned a bellwether midlands marginal seat into a comfortable Tory majority. Without wanting to rub salt in NickP's wounds, much like Broxtowe.

    I don't think she has the depth to be leader, but do not despise her politics. It wins elections, while Farage consistently loses.

    You could say the same of MPs from all sorts of ideological backgrounds. Tim Farron has perhaps done more than anyone to build a local powerbase but it doesn't mean that the opportunist gobby so and so should be PM.
    Did you read my post? I said she does not have the depth to be leader.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    rogerh said:

    If academies are such a great idea why then has there been no mention replacing private schools by academies.Or is Eton(and the whole private sector )worried about falling stabhdrds if they are academised?

    Several of them are. Bristol Cathedral School and the Royal Wolverhampton, for example.

    A good article by Donald that is well worth reading (for those who normally don't bother). I am astounded that Nicky Morgan believes she (a) has what it takes.(b) has a realistic chance and (c) is flaunting it to everyone like this. She's completely wrong on all counts. Teachers hated Gove because of his rudeness and dogmatism. They don't hate her, they just feel contempt mingled with pity. That's how disastrous her record is.

    I imagine however that hanging around with Chris Wormald and the other barely literate, unemployable numpties of the DfES would be enough to give even an imbecile an inflated sense of their own genius.

    Her best move would be to abolish the DfES instead. Now that would be a good move educationally and also extremely popular, on top of saving billions in overheads.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517

    From the comments below, it seems that the Labourites and leaver 'Conservatives' are against her.

    She must be doing something right!

    You were a LEAVER conservative, has something changed?
    I wish we could have a footer in our profiles to avoid repeating things, but for those with poorer memory than my own:

    1) I am not a Conservative member, but do occasionally lend them my vote. At the GE I voted for the Labour candidate in the locals and for the Conservative in my constituency. I am as likely to join the Lib Dems (if Farron pulled his socks up (*)) as the Conservatives.

    2) I am probably going to vote leave. Seemingly unlike almost all the leavers on here, I can see big flaws in their 'arguments' and potential problems being stored up the immediate future if leave wins. Sadly, too many posters are busy brainlessly cheerleading their side than actually addressing the issues.

    BTW, have you learnt the difference between fact and fiction yet?

    (*) Or whatever the suitable footwear is for the mandate Lib Dem sandals.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited April 2016
    Estobar said:

    I don't usually go near ConWoman but this is a pretty good hatchet job on Nicky Morgan by Rob Slane:
    http://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/rob-slane-perhaps-the-witless-platitudinous-nicky-morgan-is-right-our-kids-minds-have-turned-to-lefty-mush/

    "The Education Secretary, Nicky Morgan, has now waded into the debate on EU membership, bringing with her just about every device from the toolbox of the modern career politician: good use of emotive scaremongering, lots of high sounding but meaningless platitudes, all topped with a good drizzle of disingenuous nonsense."

    Well, quite.

    I didn't even know of it's existence but having now read that character assassination on Nicky Morgan (written by a man-and a patronising one at that) I think your original decision was a good one. What a piece of shit
  • From the comments below, it seems that the Labourites and leaver 'Conservatives' are against her.

    She must be doing something right!

    You were a LEAVER conservative, has something changed?
    I wish we could have a footer in our profiles to avoid repeating things, but for those with poorer memory than my own:

    1) I am not a Conservative member, but do occasionally lend them my vote. At the GE I voted for the Labour candidate in the locals and for the Conservative in my constituency. I am as likely to join the Lib Dems (if Farron pulled his socks up (*)) as the Conservatives.

    2) I am probably going to vote leave. Seemingly unlike almost all the leavers on here, I can see big flaws in their 'arguments' and potential problems being stored up the immediate future if leave wins. Sadly, too many posters are busy brainlessly cheerleading their side than actually addressing the issues.

    BTW, have you learnt the difference between fact and fiction yet?

    (*) Or whatever the suitable footwear is for the mandate Lib Dem sandals.
    Thank you.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    From the comments below, it seems that the Labourites and leaver 'Conservatives' are against her.

    She must be doing something right!

    Spot on - everything on here atm is viewed through the Brexit prism. Pathetic and too tedious.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891

    Roger said:

    Very Private Eye. I thought for a very brief moment you were being serious about Nicky Morgan. It does remind us that while the government is imploding over the referendum it's still managing to wreak havoc esewhere

    I liked the way you managed to slip 'Jeremy Hunt' in for comparative purposes though I think you could have moved him from the 'hapless' column to the 'beleaguered' one. I can only think his 1% support with Conservative Home was a rounding error?

    To remind us that Labour have their own crackpots by introducing Lucy 'Edstone' 'Powell was smart. There has been some criticism of unbalanced headers lately.

    Then back with Graham Brady (known even to his his footballer wife Hale constituents as 'Thicko') and on to the governments 'defeats and retreats' then ending with George and his "megashambles budget"..........

    .......altogether an ejoyable and well rounded piece

    Hunt has a serious chance. Taking on, and beating, the health unions always goes down well.
    It's the way you tell 'em! According to DB Con Home gives him a 1% chance. I haven't disliked a Tory Minister more since Norman Tebbit.
  • Mrs Morgan doesn't want my advice. But when did a lack of want last stop a Peebie?

    She needs a Plan B. One that makes her current proposals look utterly minimalist.

    I would suggest that she accepts the need to retain Parent Governors but only in Tory areas - this to be a stalking horse for the redistribution of seats (look at tax take as well as mere number of voters?) and the replacement of local authorities in inner-city areas with French-style prefects. (I leave it to others here to decide what should go where.)

    That will, at the least, give her a distinctive manifesto for the Party leadership election - distinctive from the "white male" candidates, anyway.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Roger said:

    Very Private Eye. I thought for a very brief moment you were being serious about Nicky Morgan. It does remind us that while the government is imploding over the referendum it's still managing to wreak havoc esewhere

    I liked the way you managed to slip 'Jeremy Hunt' in for comparative purposes though I think you could have moved him from the 'hapless' column to the 'beleaguered' one. I can only think his 1% support with Conservative Home was a rounding error?

    To remind us that Labour have their own crackpots by introducing Lucy 'Edstone' 'Powell was smart. There has been some criticism of unbalanced headers lately.

    Then back with Graham Brady (known even to his his footballer wife Hale constituents as 'Thicko') and on to the governments 'defeats and retreats' then ending with George and his "megashambles budget"..........

    .......altogether an ejoyable and well rounded piece

    Hunt has a serious chance. Taking on, and beating, the health unions always goes down well.
    Does Hunt go down well with Conservative-leaning doctors (which is, presumably, most of them)?
    He doesn't get support from Conservatives of any sort:

    http://www.conservativehome.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Screen-Shot-2016-03-07-at-20.21.36.png

    50% of UK doctors voted Conservative in 2010 according to a poll in Pulse. I haven't seen a more recent figure.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758

    Mrs Morgan doesn't want my advice. But when did a lack of want last stop a Peebie?

    She needs a Plan B. One that makes her current proposals look utterly minimalist.

    I would suggest that she accepts the need to retain Parent Governors but only in Tory areas - this to be a stalking horse for the redistribution of seats (look at tax take as well as mere number of voters?) and the replacement of local authorities in inner-city areas with French-style prefects. (I leave it to others here to decide what should go where.)

    That will, at the least, give her a distinctive manifesto for the Party leadership election - distinctive from the "white male" candidates, anyway.

    What she really needs to do is abolish academy chains and instead make schools fully answerable to governors elected by/from the parents.

    Y'know, like lots of these private schools she and Gove were/are forever banging on about. The ones that are charitable trusts, anyway, which is what academy schools would mostly be in practice.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    edited April 2016
    Presumably our next thread will be about Liz Kendall's chances in Labour. They are probably pretty similar.

    The announcement of this policy was at least a Parliament too early and I think it has no chance of being brought into force in the next few years. Many LEAs are pointless bureaucracies soaking up scarce resources with paperwork that no one will ever look at except to try to pass the blame for failure to others but there are a lot of practical problems to be addressed.

    Firstly, there are a lot of specialists who are employed through LEAs. This used to be things like Speech and Language Therapists but now includes such things as peripatetic music teachers. No doubt chains of schools can make their own provision but for most schools providing such services efficiently will be a real challenge.

    Secondly, there is the related issue of special needs children. The policy is to have these in mainstream education where possible but this again can involve a whole range of specialists that a LEA might employ but a school won't. Where they are not mainstreamed resources can be concentrated but unless that policy is changed stand alone schools are an issue.

    Thirdly, it seems to me that Whitehall is taking on a whole heap of trouble by doing this. We have already had issues with under performing Academies and the inadequacies of the regimes to address them. I would not suggest for a moment that LEAs do any better, if they did the failing schools of 50 years ago would not still be failing schools today but the idea that taking responsibility for this is going to enhance someone's career is for the birds.

    I could go on but what is the point? Academies have undoubtedly brought some new leadership into some schools and improved them. They have the potential over time to do more. But the idea that there is an infinite pool of such leadership just waiting to be untapped is ridiculous.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891

    Roger said:

    Very Private Eye. I thought for a very brief moment you were being serious about Nicky Morgan. It does remind us that while the government is imploding over the referendum it's still managing to wreak havoc esewhere

    I liked the way you managed to slip 'Jeremy Hunt' in for comparative purposes though I think you could have moved him from the 'hapless' column to the 'beleaguered' one. I can only think his 1% support with Conservative Home was a rounding error?

    To remind us that Labour have their own crackpots by introducing Lucy 'Edstone' 'Powell was smart. There has been some criticism of unbalanced headers lately.

    Then back with Graham Brady (known even to his his footballer wife Hale constituents as 'Thicko') and on to the governments 'defeats and retreats' then ending with George and his "megashambles budget"..........

    .......altogether an ejoyable and well rounded piece

    Hunt has a serious chance. Taking on, and beating, the health unions always goes down well.
    Does Hunt go down well with Conservative-leaning doctors (which is, presumably, most of them)?
    He doesn't get support from Conservatives of any sort:

    http://www.conservativehome.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Screen-Shot-2016-03-07-at-20.21.36.png

    50% of UK doctors voted Conservative in 2010 according to a poll in Pulse. I haven't seen a more recent figure.
    What a scary picture (and that's before you look at the percentages!)
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    DavidL said:

    Presumably our next thread will be about Liz Kendall's chances in Labour. They are probably pretty similar.

    The announcement of this policy was at least a Parliament too early and I think it has no chance of being brought into force in the next few years. Many LEAs are pointless bureaucracies soaking up scarce resources with paperwork that no one will ever look at except to try to pass the blame for failure to others but there are a lot of practical problems to be addressed.

    Firstly, there are a lot of specialists who are employed through LEAs. This used to be things like Speech and Language Therapists but now includes such things are peripatetic music teachers. No doubt chains of schools can make their own provision but for most schools providing such services efficiently will be a real challenge.

    Secondly, there is the related issue of special needs children. The policy is to have these in mainstream education where possible but this again can involve a whole range of specialists that a LEA might employ but a school won't. Where they are not mainstreamed resources can be concentrated but unless that policy is changed stand alone schools are an issue.

    Thirdly, it seems to me that Whitehall is taking on a whole heap of trouble by doing this. We have already had issues with under performing Academies and the inadequacies of the regimes to address them. I would not suggest for a moment that LEAs do any better, if they did the failing schools of 50 years ago would not still be failing schools today but the idea that taking responsibility for this is going to enhance someone's career is for the birds.

    I could go on but what is the point? Academies have undoubtedly brought some new leadership into some schools and improved them. They have the potential over time to do more. But the idea that there is an infinite pool of such leadership just waiting to be untapped is ridiculous.

    The idea of independence has worked well for some NHS Foundation Trusts, but others have abused the status. Mid Staffs being a prime, but not unique example. I suspect Acadamies and Free Schools will be much the same. Some will be excellent, but others will seriously go off the rails. It is the nature of politics that the minister gets little credit for the first and all the blame for the latter.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758

    Roger said:

    Very Private Eye. I thought for a very brief moment you were being serious about Nicky Morgan. It does remind us that while the government is imploding over the referendum it's still managing to wreak havoc esewhere

    I liked the way you managed to slip 'Jeremy Hunt' in for comparative purposes though I think you could have moved him from the 'hapless' column to the 'beleaguered' one. I can only think his 1% support with Conservative Home was a rounding error?

    To remind us that Labour have their own crackpots by introducing Lucy 'Edstone' 'Powell was smart. There has been some criticism of unbalanced headers lately.

    Then back with Graham Brady (known even to his his footballer wife Hale constituents as 'Thicko') and on to the governments 'defeats and retreats' then ending with George and his "megashambles budget"..........

    .......altogether an ejoyable and well rounded piece

    Hunt has a serious chance. Taking on, and beating, the health unions always goes down well.
    Does Hunt go down well with Conservative-leaning doctors (which is, presumably, most of them)?
    He doesn't get support from Conservatives of any sort:

    http://www.conservativehome.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Screen-Shot-2016-03-07-at-20.21.36.png

    50% of UK doctors voted Conservative in 2010 according to a poll in Pulse. I haven't seen a more recent figure.
    Teachers were I think about 44%. Above average, anyway.

    The real irony of Gove and I think also Lansley is that their proposals sounded excellent, as did their keenness to do that specific role. Unfortunately they then started putting them into practice much too fast and in the most disruptive way possible. When anyone offered them well-meant advice on patience and getting it right instead of getting it rushed through, they resorted to childish abuse ('the blob') and carried on anyway.

    Quite a feat to turn teachers Labour after Blunkett, Clarke and Balls, but Gove managed it. Morgan is merely taking matters to a logical conclusion.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758

    DavidL said:

    Presumably our next thread will be about Liz Kendall's chances in Labour. They are probably pretty similar.

    The announcement of this policy was at least a Parliament too early and I think it has no chance of being brought into force in the next few years. Many LEAs are pointless bureaucracies soaking up scarce resources with paperwork that no one will ever look at except to try to pass the blame for failure to others but there are a lot of practical problems to be addressed.

    Firstly, there are a lot of specialists who are employed through LEAs. This used to be things like Speech and Language Therapists but now includes such things are peripatetic music teachers. No doubt chains of schools can make their own provision but for most schools providing such services efficiently will be a real challenge.

    Secondly, there is the related issue of special needs children. The policy is to have these in mainstream education where possible but this again can involve a whole range of specialists that a LEA might employ but a school won't. Where they are not mainstreamed resources can be concentrated but unless that policy is changed stand alone schools are an issue.

    Thirdly, it seems to me that Whitehall is taking on a whole heap of trouble by doing this. We have already had issues with under performing Academies and the inadequacies of the regimes to address them. I would not suggest for a moment that LEAs do any better, if they did the failing schools of 50 years ago would not still be failing schools today but the idea that taking responsibility for this is going to enhance someone's career is for the birds.

    I could go on but what is the point? Academies have undoubtedly brought some new leadership into some schools and improved them. They have the potential over time to do more. But the idea that there is an infinite pool of such leadership just waiting to be untapped is ridiculous.

    The idea of independence has worked well for some NHS Foundation Trusts, but others have abused the status. Mid Staffs being a prime, but not unique example. I suspect Acadamies and Free Schools will be much the same. Some will be excellent, but others will seriously go off the rails. It is the nature of politics that the minister gets little credit for the first and all the blame for the latter.

    I would agree with both posts. Indeed, the problem the good Doctor identifies has happened already. Look at the disaster that was E-Act, where local authorities had to step in after the whole set-up imploded.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Wonder what affect that might have. Looks like immigration figures are going to be released at the point most voters will be taking an interest one month before the referendum. You would have thought they would do it ASAP to get it out the way?

    "The EU referendum battle took an astonishing new twist last night after officials caved in to demands to come clean about the true scale of mass immigration. The information could reveal up to 1.3million extra EU citizens are living here – electrifying the referendum debate and giving a major boost to the Out camp. MPs said the Government was only releasing the information under huge pressure. One said it was ‘Late, but a good deal better than never"

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3521972/We-told-real-number-EU-migrants-Explosive-figures-published-just-month-vote-officials-cave-demands-come-clean.html#ixzz44q5Jmu6m
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    The one change I'd make to this piece is to remove Lucy Powells name - maybe she's right about the cost, but my instant reaction was to doubt it if she said it,
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Good morning, everyone.

    What's wrong with 'two white men'? "Vote for me, I have ovaries!" isn't exactly an appeal for equal treatment.

    My post-race analysis of Bahrain's up here:
    http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2016/04/bahrain-post-race-analysis.html

    It occurs to me that I've mastered the art of the near miss. Of three failing bets, one was blatantly unlucky (Vettel's car failed on the formation lap). The other two were incredibly close (Rosberg got within a tenth of a second of pole, and I backed Hulkenberg for 6th in Oz, and he got 7th).

    Not sure if that makes me feel worse or better.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    DavidL said:

    Presumably our next thread will be about Liz Kendall's chances in Labour. They are probably pretty similar.

    The announcement of this policy was at least a Parliament too early and I think it has no chance of being brought into force in the next few years. Many LEAs are pointless bureaucracies soaking up scarce resources with paperwork that no one will ever look at except to try to pass the blame for failure to others but there are a lot of practical problems to be addressed.

    Firstly, there are a lot of specialists who are employed through LEAs. This used to be things like Speech and Language Therapists but now includes such things as peripatetic music teachers. No doubt chains of schools can make their own provision but for most schools providing such services efficiently will be a real challenge.

    Secondly, there is the related issue of special needs children. The policy is to have these in mainstream education where possible but this again can involve a whole range of specialists that a LEA might employ but a school won't. Where they are not mainstreamed resources can be concentrated but unless that policy is changed stand alone schools are an issue.

    Thirdly, it seems to me that Whitehall is taking on a whole heap of trouble by doing this. We have already had issues with under performing Academies and the inadequacies of the regimes to address them. I would not suggest for a moment that LEAs do any better, if they did the failing schools of 50 years ago would not still be failing schools today but the idea that taking responsibility for this is going to enhance someone's career is for the birds.

    I could go on but what is the point? Academies have undoubtedly brought some new leadership into some schools and improved them. They have the potential over time to do more. But the idea that there is an infinite pool of such leadership just waiting to be untapped is ridiculous.

    Very well put. It's an issue of little importance to me personally, but whenever tobybyoung and others extol the evil of the current system and greatness of the proposed, it just seems so unrealistic to me.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,022

    Good morning, everyone.

    What's wrong with 'two white men'? "Vote for me, I have ovaries!" isn't exactly an appeal for equal treatment.

    My post-race analysis of Bahrain's up here:
    http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2016/04/bahrain-post-race-analysis.html

    It occurs to me that I've mastered the art of the near miss. Of three failing bets, one was blatantly unlucky (Vettel's car failed on the formation lap). The other two were incredibly close (Rosberg got within a tenth of a second of pole, and I backed Hulkenberg for 6th in Oz, and he got 7th).

    Not sure if that makes me feel worse or better.

    Nicky Morgan's new Labour approach to the EU and social policy will ensure she doesn't make it past the first round.
  • kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Presumably our next thread will be about Liz Kendall's chances in Labour. They are probably pretty similar.

    The announcement of this policy was at least a Parliament too early and I think it has no chance of being brought into force in the next few years. Many LEAs are pointless bureaucracies soaking up scarce resources with paperwork that no one will ever look at except to try to pass the blame for failure to others but there are a lot of practical problems to be addressed.

    Firstly, there are a lot of specialists who are employed through LEAs. This used to be things like Speech and Language Therapists but now includes such things as peripatetic music teachers. No doubt chains of schools can make their own provision but for most schools providing such services efficiently will be a real challenge.

    Secondly, there is the related issue of special needs children. The policy is to have these in mainstream education where possible but this again can involve a whole range of specialists that a LEA might employ but a school won't. Where they are not mainstreamed resources can be concentrated but unless that policy is changed stand alone schools are an issue.

    Thirdly, it seems to me that Whitehall is taking on a whole heap of trouble by doing this. We have already had issues with under performing Academies and the inadequacies of the regimes to address them. I would not suggest for a moment that LEAs do any better, if they did the failing schools of 50 years ago would not still be failing schools today but the idea that taking responsibility for this is going to enhance someone's career is for the birds.

    I could go on but what is the point? Academies have undoubtedly brought some new leadership into some schools and improved them. They have the potential over time to do more. But the idea that there is an infinite pool of such leadership just waiting to be untapped is ridiculous.

    Very well put. It's an issue of little importance to me personally, but whenever tobybyoung and others extol the evil of the current system and greatness of the proposed, it just seems so unrealistic to me.
    I wonder how many voters read "special needs children" as "other people's children".

    The real problem with the present system, which Mrs M's proposals don't go anything like far enough to redress, is that it spends far too much on your children and not nearly enough on mine.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    LEAs are one of the few remaining functions of councils with any local discretion at all. I cannot imagine that the move is particularly popular with Councillors, Conservative or otherwise. It will be interesting if this becomes noticeable with the forthcoming local elections.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    edited April 2016
    kle4 said:

    The one change I'd make to this piece is to remove Lucy Powells name - maybe she's right about the cost, but my instant reaction was to doubt it if she said it,

    In fact it is likely to be cost neutral at worst. Early academies were expensive - good schools were bribed to change, bad ones had to be given extra money anyway. That's now gone. LEAs are hugely expensive in themselves, as their staff earn in average about 20% more than teachers and they generate paperwork that requires extra school staffing to deal with. That will be ending.

    Also, it will theoretically mean an end to national pay scales. I don't know how much difference that will make in practice. However, in some private schools you get teachers on more or less an NQT's salary (50% less than that of an experienced teacher without administrative responsibilities) all the way through their careers. If that came in in the state sector you might have a huge cost saving at the expense of worsening retention rates.

    The other problem may be training new staff, which even in Academies is done through the LEA. I know Nicky Morgan has said she wants to abolish QTS but even allowing for that there will be gaps that need filling.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    I'd like to see more women in politics, in fact in most senior positions; they are more caring, loyal and independent than men, as a rule they don't start wars and the female prison population is far lower than men, they are generally better people. But if Morgan becomes leader, and probably PM, I'll be pining for the competency of Cameron.

    She is bland, rehearsed and ghastly, everything a woman shouldn't be.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Nicky Morgan will never be Prime Minister.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,535
    Five years ago the government was promoting academies on the basis that they would see different types of schools competing, and offer greater choice to parents. Now they are saying all state schools should become academies, presumably ending competition between types of schools and parental choices. Barmy.

  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    One argument I keep seeing is that the same people are requesting NI numbers each time they want to work here - I don't find that at all credible, unless they're selling them on. When you've bothered with the paperwork and got one approved, why would you do it again and risk rejection?
    Moses_ said:

    Wonder what affect that might have. Looks like immigration figures are going to be released at the point most voters will be taking an interest one month before the referendum. You would have thought they would do it ASAP to get it out the way?

    "The EU referendum battle took an astonishing new twist last night after officials caved in to demands to come clean about the true scale of mass immigration. The information could reveal up to 1.3million extra EU citizens are living here – electrifying the referendum debate and giving a major boost to the Out camp. MPs said the Government was only releasing the information under huge pressure. One said it was ‘Late, but a good deal better than never"

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3521972/We-told-real-number-EU-migrants-Explosive-figures-published-just-month-vote-officials-cave-demands-come-clean.html#ixzz44q5Jmu6m

  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,973
    As a typically conservative voting, in voting guy, I think the academies idea is a disaster waiting to happen. Convert by choice, which is the current policy, is fine but some schools will want to stay under LEA control. A school rated outstanding would seemingly be forced to become an academy with quite uncertain consequences.

    I think the issue with special educational needs is a big one as well. Why on earth Morgan has decided to tackle something this big, which I don't think the conservatives are strong enough to fight anyway, is baffling.

    Maybe a few more years, with some more evidence re. Academies, and my opinion may change. But it far too soon.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772

    DavidL said:

    Presumably our next thread will be about Liz Kendall's chances in Labour. They are probably pretty similar.

    The announcement of this policy was at least a Parliament too early and I think it has no chance of being brought into force in the next few years. Many LEAs are pointless bureaucracies soaking up scarce resources with paperwork that no one will ever look at except to try to pass the blame for failure to others but there are a lot of practical problems to be addressed.

    Firstly, there are a lot of specialists who are employed through LEAs. This used to be things like Speech and Language Therapists but now includes such things are peripatetic music teachers. No doubt chains of schools can make their own provision but for most schools providing such services efficiently will be a real challenge.

    Secondly, there is the related issue of special needs children. The policy is to have these in mainstream education where possible but this again can involve a whole range of specialists that a LEA might employ but a school won't. Where they are not mainstreamed resources can be concentrated but unless that policy is changed stand alone schools are an issue.

    Thirdly, it seems to me that Whitehall is taking on a whole heap of trouble by doing this. We have already had issues with under performing Academies and the inadequacies of the regimes to address them. I would not suggest for a moment that LEAs do any better, if they did the failing schools of 50 years ago would not still be failing schools today but the idea that taking responsibility for this is going to enhance someone's career is for the birds.

    I could go on but what is the point? Academies have undoubtedly brought some new leadership into some schools and improved them. They have the potential over time to do more. But the idea that there is an infinite pool of such leadership just waiting to be untapped is ridiculous.

    The idea of independence has worked well for some NHS Foundation Trusts, but others have abused the status. Mid Staffs being a prime, but not unique example. I suspect Acadamies and Free Schools will be much the same. Some will be excellent, but others will seriously go off the rails. It is the nature of politics that the minister gets little credit for the first and all the blame for the latter.

    Indeed. It is Whitehall has spent most of the last 30 years putting managerial responsibility at arm's length from Ministerial responsibility.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    NMWNBPL – Looks too much like Ronnie Barker in drag.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Very Private Eye. I thought for a very brief moment you were being serious about Nicky Morgan. It does remind us that while the government is imploding over the referendum it's still managing to wreak havoc esewhere

    I liked the way you managed to slip 'Jeremy Hunt' in for comparative purposes though I think you could have moved him from the 'hapless' column to the 'beleaguered' one. I can only think his 1% support with Conservative Home was a rounding error?

    To remind us that Labour have their own crackpots by introducing Lucy 'Edstone' 'Powell was smart. There has been some criticism of unbalanced headers lately.

    Then back with Graham Brady (known even to his his footballer wife Hale constituents as 'Thicko') and on to the governments 'defeats and retreats' then ending with George and his "megashambles budget"..........

    .......altogether an ejoyable and well rounded piece

    Hunt has a serious chance. Taking on, and beating, the health unions always goes down well.
    It's the way you tell 'em! According to DB Con Home gives him a 1% chance. I haven't disliked a Tory Minister more since Norman Tebbit.
    I've noticed that for Labour leaders to win an election, they have to not be hated by Conservative party voters. The same impediment may not apply to Tory leaders.

    Gove and May are likely to be the final two now; Osborne has in the past weeks blown his own chance and witness Javid's disappear too.

    Paterson and Fox might throw their oar in, but won't get far vs Gove and May.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    glw said:

    Five years ago the government was promoting academies on the basis that they would see different types of schools competing, and offer greater choice to parents. Now they are saying all state schools should become academies, presumably ending competition between types of schools and parental choices. Barmy.

    Different types of academy still competing with each other? The original idea of course was for different types of specialist school - one offering engineering (JCB Academy) one languages, one arts (Newent, Gloucestershire) one science (High School for Girls, Gloucester) etc. I would agree however that does seem to have been somewhat lost sight of.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    According to sources advising the JNN the money trail from Panama leads directly to a shadowy figure linked to Kremlin oligarchs known only as Mikhail Smithsonski.

    Rarely seen outside of his palatial dacha in Bedford this powerful man was last in public at a high profile soiree at the Russian embassy in London. Rumours abound that he is the billionaire backer of the Belgravia Hair Centre and is behind a bid to make Burnley FC the Barcelona of Lancashire.

    A spokesman thought to be close to Smithsonski, who wished only to be named as "Bob of London" referered to him as "an ally of the two greatest men in the history of mankind - President Putin and soon to be President Trump."

    Developing story ....
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    One argument I keep seeing is that the same people are requesting NI numbers each time they want to work here - I don't find that at all credible, unless they're selling them on. When you've bothered with the paperwork and got one approved, why would you do it again and risk rejection?

    Moses_ said:

    Wonder what affect that might have. Looks like immigration figures are going to be released at the point most voters will be taking an interest one month before the referendum. You would have thought they would do it ASAP to get it out the way?

    "The EU referendum battle took an astonishing new twist last night after officials caved in to demands to come clean about the true scale of mass immigration. The information could reveal up to 1.3million extra EU citizens are living here – electrifying the referendum debate and giving a major boost to the Out camp. MPs said the Government was only releasing the information under huge pressure. One said it was ‘Late, but a good deal better than never"

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3521972/We-told-real-number-EU-migrants-Explosive-figures-published-just-month-vote-officials-cave-demands-come-clean.html#ixzz44q5Jmu6m

    A lot must also be seasonal workers who come for the summer and return home for the winter. Only people staying more than a year count as migrants.

    I cannot understand why we don't re-introduce exit controls at ports and airports. If we really want to know who is entering or leaving the country then we need to count them in and out. Relying on proxies like NI numbers or passenger surveys will never give an answer. We also cannot track who has overstayed.

    We do not need to Leave to do this.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,535

    One argument I keep seeing is that the same people are requesting NI numbers each time they want to work here - I don't find that at all credible, unless they're selling them on. When you've bothered with the paperwork and got one approved, why would you do it again and risk rejection?

    It's not often that the government counters an argument about one controversial issue by saying "our systems are wide open to fraud", and yet I have heard that this morning.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    JackW said:

    According to sources advising the JNN the money trail from Panama leads directly to a shadowy figure linked to Kremlin oligarchs known only as Mikhail Smithsonski.

    Rarely seen outside of his palatial dacha in Bedford this powerful man was last in public at a high profile soiree at the Russian embassy in London. Rumours abound that he is the billionaire backer of the Belgravia Hair Centre and is behind a bid to make Burnley FC the Barcelona of Lancashire.

    A spokesman thought to be close to Smithsonski, who wished only to be named as "Bob of London" referered to him as "an ally of the two greatest men in the history of mankind - President Putin and soon to be President Trump."

    Developing story ....

    I knew it!
  • glwglw Posts: 9,535
    ydoethur said:

    glw said:

    Five years ago the government was promoting academies on the basis that they would see different types of schools competing, and offer greater choice to parents. Now they are saying all state schools should become academies, presumably ending competition between types of schools and parental choices. Barmy.

    Different types of academy still competing with each other? The original idea of course was for different types of specialist school - one offering engineering (JCB Academy) one languages, one arts (Newent, Gloucestershire) one science (High School for Girls, Gloucester) etc. I would agree however that does seem to have been somewhat lost sight of.
    I'm fairly certain that the competition argument went further than that, that thriving academies would make LEA run schools improve their standards. Now the government seems to have decided that one size fits all.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    glw said:

    ydoethur said:

    glw said:

    Five years ago the government was promoting academies on the basis that they would see different types of schools competing, and offer greater choice to parents. Now they are saying all state schools should become academies, presumably ending competition between types of schools and parental choices. Barmy.

    Different types of academy still competing with each other? The original idea of course was for different types of specialist school - one offering engineering (JCB Academy) one languages, one arts (Newent, Gloucestershire) one science (High School for Girls, Gloucester) etc. I would agree however that does seem to have been somewhat lost sight of.
    I'm fairly certain that the competition argument went further than that, that thriving academies would make LEA run schools improve their standards. Now the government seems to have decided that one size fits all.
    I don't remember that, but if that was put forward it was a cretinous argument. Because of their bureaucratic nature, there is a huge weight of inertia in LEAs and their schools. In my experience, which consists of Bristol, Monmouthshire and Gloucestershire, an LEA administrator is usually appointed due to their links with some council body and runs the department with the minimum of imagination or effort, including making no changes. The only way to change that is to abolish them.

    However, whether this is the right way or the right time is a very different question.
  • glw said:

    ydoethur said:

    glw said:

    Five years ago the government was promoting academies on the basis that they would see different types of schools competing, and offer greater choice to parents. Now they are saying all state schools should become academies, presumably ending competition between types of schools and parental choices. Barmy.

    Different types of academy still competing with each other? The original idea of course was for different types of specialist school - one offering engineering (JCB Academy) one languages, one arts (Newent, Gloucestershire) one science (High School for Girls, Gloucester) etc. I would agree however that does seem to have been somewhat lost sight of.
    Now the government seems to have decided that one size fits all.
    I thought all academies were self run and therefore all in competition with each other? Isn't the 'one size' basically a size that says - 'you will now be run by your teachers and in competition with other schools'. It's not a size that says - 'you will teach like this'.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    Mortimer said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Very Private Eye. I thought for a very brief moment you were being serious about Nicky Morgan. It does remind us that while the government is imploding over the referendum it's still managing to wreak havoc esewhere

    I liked the way you managed to slip 'Jeremy Hunt' in for comparative purposes though I think you could have moved him from the 'hapless' column to the 'beleaguered' one. I can only think his 1% support with Conservative Home was a rounding error?

    To remind us that Labour have their own crackpots by introducing Lucy 'Edstone' 'Powell was smart. There has been some criticism of unbalanced headers lately.

    Then back with Graham Brady (known even to his his footballer wife Hale constituents as 'Thicko') and on to the governments 'defeats and retreats' then ending with George and his "megashambles budget"..........

    .......altogether an ejoyable and well rounded piece

    Hunt has a serious chance. Taking on, and beating, the health unions always goes down well.
    It's the way you tell 'em! According to DB Con Home gives him a 1% chance. I haven't disliked a Tory Minister more since Norman Tebbit.
    I've noticed that for Labour leaders to win an election, they have to not be hated by Conservative party voters. The same impediment may not apply to Tory leaders.

    Gove and May are likely to be the final two now; Osborne has in the past weeks blown his own chance and witness Javid's disappear too.

    Paterson and Fox might throw their oar in, but won't get far vs Gove and May.

    I suspect you were being sarcastic but in fact you make an interesting point. For a party leader to be sucessful it's useful if they are reasonably well liked by those normally voting the other way. There are plenty of voters at the edges who can tip the balance. Blair and Cameron being good examples. Thatcher less so!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517
    glw said:

    ydoethur said:

    glw said:

    Five years ago the government was promoting academies on the basis that they would see different types of schools competing, and offer greater choice to parents. Now they are saying all state schools should become academies, presumably ending competition between types of schools and parental choices. Barmy.

    Different types of academy still competing with each other? The original idea of course was for different types of specialist school - one offering engineering (JCB Academy) one languages, one arts (Newent, Gloucestershire) one science (High School for Girls, Gloucester) etc. I would agree however that does seem to have been somewhat lost sight of.
    I'm fairly certain that the competition argument went further than that, that thriving academies would make LEA run schools improve their standards. Now the government seems to have decided that one size fits all.
    "... that thriving academies would make LEA run schools improve their standards."

    The problem is for that to work, the LEA would want to learn. That doesn't happen if the LEA thinks it is politically, socially or structurally superior to the upstarts.

    It's the same with many businesses: "There's this new company doing well: but we've been going two hundred years - what can they teach us?"

    Inertia can be fatal to any organisation.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    One argument I keep seeing is that the same people are requesting NI numbers each time they want to work here - I don't find that at all credible, unless they're selling them on. When you've bothered with the paperwork and got one approved, why would you do it again and risk rejection?

    Requesting them is credible. Allocating them is not.

    One of the first things the DWP do on any application for a NINO is to check whether one has previously been allocated to an applicant.

    The discrepancy in NINOs is, I suspect, easily explained by the fact that dependants will be given them upon benefit claims.

    So NINOs allocated will be higher than workers working.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,401

    Nicky Morgan has a very good reputation in Loughborough as a constituency MP. She turned a bellwether midlands marginal seat into a comfortable Tory majority. Without wanting to rub salt in NickP's wounds, much like Broxtowe.

    I don't think she has the depth to be leader, but do not despise her politics. It wins elections, while Farage consistently loses.

    You could say the same of MPs from all sorts of ideological backgrounds. Tim Farron has perhaps done more than anyone to build a local powerbase but it doesn't mean that the opportunist gobby so and so should be PM.
    Did you read my post? I said she does not have the depth to be leader.
    I did read your post. Besides your comments on Morgan's ability (which I agree with), you implied that her politics wins elections. I'm not sure I agree with that. What works locally can be very different from what works nationally, or from what works locally elsewhere.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517
    ydoethur said:

    glw said:

    ydoethur said:

    glw said:

    Five years ago the government was promoting academies on the basis that they would see different types of schools competing, and offer greater choice to parents. Now they are saying all state schools should become academies, presumably ending competition between types of schools and parental choices. Barmy.

    Different types of academy still competing with each other? The original idea of course was for different types of specialist school - one offering engineering (JCB Academy) one languages, one arts (Newent, Gloucestershire) one science (High School for Girls, Gloucester) etc. I would agree however that does seem to have been somewhat lost sight of.
    I'm fairly certain that the competition argument went further than that, that thriving academies would make LEA run schools improve their standards. Now the government seems to have decided that one size fits all.
    I don't remember that, but if that was put forward it was a cretinous argument. Because of their bureaucratic nature, there is a huge weight of inertia in LEAs and their schools. In my experience, which consists of Bristol, Monmouthshire and Gloucestershire, an LEA administrator is usually appointed due to their links with some council body and runs the department with the minimum of imagination or effort, including making no changes. The only way to change that is to abolish them.

    However, whether this is the right way or the right time is a very different question.
    Odd that we both used the same word wrt the LEAs: 'inertia'.
  • Moses_ said:

    Wonder what affect that might have. Looks like immigration figures are going to be released at the point most voters will be taking an interest one month before the referendum. You would have thought they would do it ASAP to get it out the way?

    "The EU referendum battle took an astonishing new twist last night after officials caved in to demands to come clean about the true scale of mass immigration. The information could reveal up to 1.3million extra EU citizens are living here – electrifying the referendum debate and giving a major boost to the Out camp. MPs said the Government was only releasing the information under huge pressure. One said it was ‘Late, but a good deal better than never"

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3521972/We-told-real-number-EU-migrants-Explosive-figures-published-just-month-vote-officials-cave-demands-come-clean.html#ixzz44q5Jmu6m

    My guess is that they're not that bad.
    If they were, they would be attached as an appendix to the Chilcot Report.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,401
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Very Private Eye. I thought for a very brief moment you were being serious about Nicky Morgan. It does remind us that while the government is imploding over the referendum it's still managing to wreak havoc esewhere

    I liked the way you managed to slip 'Jeremy Hunt' in for comparative purposes though I think you could have moved him from the 'hapless' column to the 'beleaguered' one. I can only think his 1% support with Conservative Home was a rounding error?

    To remind us that Labour have their own crackpots by introducing Lucy 'Edstone' 'Powell was smart. There has been some criticism of unbalanced headers lately.

    Then back with Graham Brady (known even to his his footballer wife Hale constituents as 'Thicko') and on to the governments 'defeats and retreats' then ending with George and his "megashambles budget"..........

    .......altogether an ejoyable and well rounded piece

    Hunt has a serious chance. Taking on, and beating, the health unions always goes down well.
    It's the way you tell 'em! According to DB Con Home gives him a 1% chance. I haven't disliked a Tory Minister more since Norman Tebbit.
    You are not the target electorate.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Roger said:

    Mortimer said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Very Private Eye. I thought for a very brief moment you were being serious about Nicky Morgan. It does remind us that while the government is imploding over the referendum it's still managing to wreak havoc esewhere

    I liked the way you managed to slip 'Jeremy Hunt' in for comparative purposes though I think you could have moved him from the 'hapless' column to the 'beleaguered' one. I can only think his 1% support with Conservative Home was a rounding error?

    To remind us that Labour have their own crackpots by introducing Lucy 'Edstone' 'Powell was smart. There has been some criticism of unbalanced headers lately.

    Then back with Graham Brady (known even to his his footballer wife Hale constituents as 'Thicko') and on to the governments 'defeats and retreats' then ending with George and his "megashambles budget"..........

    .......altogether an ejoyable and well rounded piece

    Hunt has a serious chance. Taking on, and beating, the health unions always goes down well.
    It's the way you tell 'em! According to DB Con Home gives him a 1% chance. I haven't disliked a Tory Minister more since Norman Tebbit.
    I've noticed that for Labour leaders to win an election, they have to not be hated by Conservative party voters. The same impediment may not apply to Tory leaders.

    Gove and May are likely to be the final two now; Osborne has in the past weeks blown his own chance and witness Javid's disappear too.

    Paterson and Fox might throw their oar in, but won't get far vs Gove and May.

    I suspect you were being sarcastic but in fact you make an interesting point. For a party leader to be sucessful it's useful if they are reasonably well liked by those normally voting the other way. There are plenty of voters at the edges who can tip the balance. Blair and Cameron being good examples. Thatcher less so!
    Apart from Mrs T, when was the last successful GE winner who was not seen as being on the centrist wing of their party?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559

    Roger said:

    Mortimer said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Very Private Eye. I thought for a very brief moment you were being serious about Nicky Morgan. It does remind us that while the government is imploding over the referendum it's still managing to wreak havoc esewhere

    I liked the way you managed to slip 'Jeremy Hunt' in for comparative purposes though I think you could have moved him from the 'hapless' column to the 'beleaguered' one. I can only think his 1% support with Conservative Home was a rounding error?

    To remind us that Labour have their own crackpots by introducing Lucy 'Edstone' 'Powell was smart. There has been some criticism of unbalanced headers lately.

    Then back with Graham Brady (known even to his his footballer wife Hale constituents as 'Thicko') and on to the governments 'defeats and retreats' then ending with George and his "megashambles budget"..........

    .......altogether an ejoyable and well rounded piece

    Hunt has a serious chance. Taking on, and beating, the health unions always goes down well.
    It's the way you tell 'em! According to DB Con Home gives him a 1% chance. I haven't disliked a Tory Minister more since Norman Tebbit.
    I've noticed that for Labour leaders to win an election, they have to not be hated by Conservative party voters. The same impediment may not apply to Tory leaders.

    Gove and May are likely to be the final two now; Osborne has in the past weeks blown his own chance and witness Javid's disappear too.

    Paterson and Fox might throw their oar in, but won't get far vs Gove and May.

    I suspect you were being sarcastic but in fact you make an interesting point. For a party leader to be sucessful it's useful if they are reasonably well liked by those normally voting the other way. There are plenty of voters at the edges who can tip the balance. Blair and Cameron being good examples. Thatcher less so!
    Apart from Mrs T, when was the last successful GE winner who was not seen as being on the centrist wing of their party?
    Tony Blair.

    Hard right of the Conservatives.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    Nicky Morgan has delusions of adequacy; that is all.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    :lol:

    Moses_ said:

    Wonder what affect that might have. Looks like immigration figures are going to be released at the point most voters will be taking an interest one month before the referendum. You would have thought they would do it ASAP to get it out the way?

    "The EU referendum battle took an astonishing new twist last night after officials caved in to demands to come clean about the true scale of mass immigration. The information could reveal up to 1.3million extra EU citizens are living here – electrifying the referendum debate and giving a major boost to the Out camp. MPs said the Government was only releasing the information under huge pressure. One said it was ‘Late, but a good deal better than never"

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3521972/We-told-real-number-EU-migrants-Explosive-figures-published-just-month-vote-officials-cave-demands-come-clean.html#ixzz44q5Jmu6m

    My guess is that they're not that bad.
    If they were, they would be attached as an appendix to the Chilcot Report.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,043
    RoyalBlue said:

    Nicky Morgan has delusions of adequacy; that is all.

    Absolutely. Please someone tell her that she isn't remotely up to it. The 70/1 that BF has seems about right to me.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,535

    glw said:

    ydoethur said:

    glw said:

    Five years ago the government was promoting academies on the basis that they would see different types of schools competing, and offer greater choice to parents. Now they are saying all state schools should become academies, presumably ending competition between types of schools and parental choices. Barmy.

    Different types of academy still competing with each other? The original idea of course was for different types of specialist school - one offering engineering (JCB Academy) one languages, one arts (Newent, Gloucestershire) one science (High School for Girls, Gloucester) etc. I would agree however that does seem to have been somewhat lost sight of.
    I'm fairly certain that the competition argument went further than that, that thriving academies would make LEA run schools improve their standards. Now the government seems to have decided that one size fits all.
    "... that thriving academies would make LEA run schools improve their standards."

    The problem is for that to work, the LEA would want to learn. That doesn't happen if the LEA thinks it is politically, socially or structurally superior to the upstarts.

    It's the same with many businesses: "There's this new company doing well: but we've been going two hundred years - what can they teach us?"

    Inertia can be fatal to any organisation.
    I'm certainly not arguing in favour of LEAs running schools, but policy does seem to have changed for schools opting out of LEA control, and competing with the remaining LEA run schools; to ALL state schools must become academies, presumably including even those schools doing well and run by competent LEAs.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,401

    glw said:

    ydoethur said:

    glw said:

    Five years ago the government was promoting academies on the basis that they would see different types of schools competing, and offer greater choice to parents. Now they are saying all state schools should become academies, presumably ending competition between types of schools and parental choices. Barmy.

    Different types of academy still competing with each other? The original idea of course was for different types of specialist school - one offering engineering (JCB Academy) one languages, one arts (Newent, Gloucestershire) one science (High School for Girls, Gloucester) etc. I would agree however that does seem to have been somewhat lost sight of.
    I'm fairly certain that the competition argument went further than that, that thriving academies would make LEA run schools improve their standards. Now the government seems to have decided that one size fits all.
    "... that thriving academies would make LEA run schools improve their standards."

    The problem is for that to work, the LEA would want to learn. That doesn't happen if the LEA thinks it is politically, socially or structurally superior to the upstarts.

    It's the same with many businesses: "There's this new company doing well: but we've been going two hundred years - what can they teach us?"

    Inertia can be fatal to any organisation.
    True, but then if that is the case - where there's a coasting and complacent LEA - you'd expect the schools to continually leave it, either voluntarily, as they feel the dead weight of the Authority, or through compulsion as schools are judged to be failing.

    I was a governor at a school in such an LEA (Bradford) and we opted to go academy because of how the Authority treated schools, teachers and pupils and beans on a board to be pushed around with no consideration of their preferences or needs. The more schools that went, the more that those left became the playthings of the beancounters.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758

    ydoethur said:

    glw said:

    ydoethur said:

    glw said:

    Five years ago the government was promoting academies on the basis that they would see different types of schools competing, and offer greater choice to parents. Now they are saying all state schools should become academies, presumably ending competition between types of schools and parental choices. Barmy.

    Different types of academy still competing with each other? The original idea of course was for different types of specialist school - one offering engineering (JCB Academy) one languages, one arts (Newent, Gloucestershire) one science (High School for Girls, Gloucester) etc. I would agree however that does seem to have been somewhat lost sight of.
    I'm fairly certain that the competition argument went further than that, that thriving academies would make LEA run schools improve their standards. Now the government seems to have decided that one size fits all.
    I don't remember that, but if that was put forward it was a cretinous argument. Because of their bureaucratic nature, there is a huge weight of inertia in LEAs and their schools. In my experience, which consists of Bristol, Monmouthshire and Gloucestershire, an LEA administrator is usually appointed due to their links with some council body and runs the department with the minimum of imagination or effort, including making no changes. The only way to change that is to abolish them.

    However, whether this is the right way or the right time is a very different question.
    Odd that we both used the same word wrt the LEAs: 'inertia'.
    Great minds think alike :smiley:

    More seriously, it happens to be true.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,723
    I think she would make a great leader.





    If there was a permanently confused Owl party.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,022

    Roger said:

    Mortimer said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Very Private Eye. I thought for a very brief moment you were being serious about Nicky Morgan. It does remind us that while the government is imploding over the referendum it's still managing to wreak havoc esewhere

    I liked the way you managed to slip 'Jeremy Hunt' in for comparative purposes though I think you could have moved him from the 'hapless' column to the 'beleaguered' one. I can only think his 1% support with Conservative Home was a rounding error?

    To remind us that Labour have their own crackpots by introducing Lucy 'Edstone' 'Powell was smart. There has been some criticism of unbalanced headers lately.

    Then back with Graham Brady (known even to his his footballer wife Hale constituents as 'Thicko') and on to the governments 'defeats and retreats' then ending with George and his "megashambles budget"..........

    .......altogether an ejoyable and well rounded piece

    Hunt has a serious chance. Taking on, and beating, the health unions always goes down well.
    It's the way you tell 'em! According to DB Con Home gives him a 1% chance. I haven't disliked a Tory Minister more since Norman Tebbit.
    I've noticed that for Labour leaders to win an election, they have to not be hated by Conservative party voters. The same impediment may not apply to Tory leaders.

    Gove and May are likely to be the final two now; Osborne has in the past weeks blown his own chance and witness Javid's disappear too.

    Paterson and Fox might throw their oar in, but won't get far vs Gove and May.

    I suspect you were being sarcastic but in fact you make an interesting point. For a party leader to be sucessful it's useful if they are reasonably well liked by those normally voting the other way. There are plenty of voters at the edges who can tip the balance. Blair and Cameron being good examples. Thatcher less so!
    Apart from Mrs T, when was the last successful GE winner who was not seen as being on the centrist wing of their party?
    Major was to the Right of Heseletine and viewed as Thatcherism with a human face.

    Cameron was to the Right of Clarke and, somewhat unbelievably now, managed to appear more eurosceptic than David Davis during the leadership campaign because he pledged to pull the Tories out of the EPP.

    On the Labour side, I suppose it's either Wilson or Atlee, probably the latter more as he was unashamedly socialist.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    The question is, is why Dom Brind writing a thread about a very unlikely leadership contender? Or is it just a a barely veiled excuse to attack academies.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517
    My local academy trust is quite interesting, and its current state should perhaps be studied more by people interested in education. They run three local village colleges (the Cambridgeshire name for secondary schools), plus another school in Peterborough.

    The three village colleges are all based in smallish villages, and are doing well. The newly built college a couple of hundred yards from me is outstanding.

    Yet the Peterborough inner-city school is failing. The fact that the trust can run three schools very successfully, yet one is in special measures, shows that management might not be the only cause of successful or failing schools.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-34075769
  • One argument I keep seeing is that the same people are requesting NI numbers each time they want to work here - I don't find that at all credible, unless they're selling them on. When you've bothered with the paperwork and got one approved, why would you do it again and risk rejection?

    Moses_ said:

    Wonder what affect that might have. Looks like immigration figures are going to be released at the point most voters will be taking an interest one month before the referendum. You would have thought they would do it ASAP to get it out the way?

    "The EU referendum battle took an astonishing new twist last night after officials caved in to demands to come clean about the true scale of mass immigration. The information could reveal up to 1.3million extra EU citizens are living here – electrifying the referendum debate and giving a major boost to the Out camp. MPs said the Government was only releasing the information under huge pressure. One said it was ‘Late, but a good deal better than never"

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3521972/We-told-real-number-EU-migrants-Explosive-figures-published-just-month-vote-officials-cave-demands-come-clean.html#ixzz44q5Jmu6m

    A lot must also be seasonal workers who come for the summer and return home for the winter. Only people staying more than a year count as migrants.

    I cannot understand why we don't re-introduce exit controls at ports and airports. If we really want to know who is entering or leaving the country then we need to count them in and out. Relying on proxies like NI numbers or passenger surveys will never give an answer. We also cannot track who has overstayed.

    We do not need to Leave to do this.
    Wasn't the reintroduction of exit checks blocked by May and the Home Office on the grounds that it would throw too much light on how useless the country really was at controlling it?
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976

    The question is, is why Dom Brind writing a thread about a very unlikely leadership contender? Or is it just a a barely veiled excuse to attack academies.

    The latter.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,401
    Roger said:

    Mortimer said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Very Private Eye. I thought for a very brief moment you were being serious about Nicky Morgan. It does remind us that while the government is imploding over the referendum it's still managing to wreak havoc esewhere

    I liked the way you managed to slip 'Jeremy Hunt' in for comparative purposes though I think you could have moved him from the 'hapless' column to the 'beleaguered' one. I can only think his 1% support with Conservative Home was a rounding error?

    To remind us that Labour have their own crackpots by introducing Lucy 'Edstone' 'Powell was smart. There has been some criticism of unbalanced headers lately.

    Then back with Graham Brady (known even to his his footballer wife Hale constituents as 'Thicko') and on to the governments 'defeats and retreats' then ending with George and his "megashambles budget"..........

    .......altogether an ejoyable and well rounded piece

    Hunt has a serious chance. Taking on, and beating, the health unions always goes down well.
    It's the way you tell 'em! According to DB Con Home gives him a 1% chance. I haven't disliked a Tory Minister more since Norman Tebbit.
    I've noticed that for Labour leaders to win an election, they have to not be hated by Conservative party voters. The same impediment may not apply to Tory leaders.

    Gove and May are likely to be the final two now; Osborne has in the past weeks blown his own chance and witness Javid's disappear too.

    Paterson and Fox might throw their oar in, but won't get far vs Gove and May.

    I suspect you were being sarcastic but in fact you make an interesting point. For a party leader to be sucessful it's useful if they are reasonably well liked by those normally voting the other way. There are plenty of voters at the edges who can tip the balance. Blair and Cameron being good examples. Thatcher less so!
    You're wrong there. Thatcher did appeal to a lot of swing voters; those with aspiration for themselves and their families, as well as specific policies / characteristics. In 1979, it was council houses; in 1983, strong and effective leadership; in 1987, competence in government. All appealed to either swing voters or former Labour ones. It was only after 1987 that she went a bit mad.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,022
    RoyalBlue said:

    Nicky Morgan has delusions of adequacy; that is all.

    As far as I can tell, she would have been just as comfortable as a minister in Tony Blair's administration as Cameron's.

    I would really struggle to find any meaningful difference, other than the party label, the fact she doesn't belong to a union and sounds a bit posh.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Very Private Eye. I thought for a very brief moment you were being serious about Nicky Morgan. It does remind us that while the government is imploding over the referendum it's still managing to wreak havoc esewhere

    I liked the way you managed to slip 'Jeremy Hunt' in for comparative purposes though I think you could have moved him from the 'hapless' column to the 'beleaguered' one. I can only think his 1% support with Conservative Home was a rounding error?

    To remind us that Labour have their own crackpots by introducing Lucy 'Edstone' 'Powell was smart. There has been some criticism of unbalanced headers lately.

    Then back with Graham Brady (known even to his his footballer wife Hale constituents as 'Thicko') and on to the governments 'defeats and retreats' then ending with George and his "megashambles budget"..........

    .......altogether an ejoyable and well rounded piece

    Hunt has a serious chance. Taking on, and beating, the health unions always goes down well.
    It's the way you tell 'em! According to DB Con Home gives him a 1% chance. I haven't disliked a Tory Minister more since Norman Tebbit.
    You are not the target electorate.
    Hunt is sly, manipulative, bullying, ruthless and in cahoots with the press barons. He also can be very elusive (not just the infamous hiding behind a tree when being sought over the BSkyB deal - he also has not appeared in the Commons on several occasions to answer questions on the strikes, leaving the hapless Gummer to field them). He has a certain superficial charm and feathers his own nest very nicely.

    I can see him getting to the top of the Conservative party and is a worthwhile value punt.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,535

    Wasn't the reintroduction of exit checks blocked by May and the Home Office on the grounds that it would throw too much light on how useless the country really was at controlling it?

    It has got to be something like that, as it is hard for me to think of a good reason why we wouldn't want to know who is or is not in the country.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,401
    ydoethur said:

    glw said:

    Five years ago the government was promoting academies on the basis that they would see different types of schools competing, and offer greater choice to parents. Now they are saying all state schools should become academies, presumably ending competition between types of schools and parental choices. Barmy.

    Different types of academy still competing with each other? The original idea of course was for different types of specialist school - one offering engineering (JCB Academy) one languages, one arts (Newent, Gloucestershire) one science (High School for Girls, Gloucester) etc. I would agree however that does seem to have been somewhat lost sight of.
    Of course, that only works if you have admissions policies that enable that choice to be meaningful. The biggest problem with the competition between schools is the concept of catchment areas.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,043

    Nicky Morgan has a very good reputation in Loughborough as a constituency MP. She turned a bellwether midlands marginal seat into a comfortable Tory majority. Without wanting to rub salt in NickP's wounds, much like Broxtowe.

    I don't think she has the depth to be leader, but do not despise her politics. It wins elections, while Farage consistently loses.

    You could say the same of MPs from all sorts of ideological backgrounds. Tim Farron has perhaps done more than anyone to build a local powerbase but it doesn't mean that the opportunist gobby so and so should be PM.
    Did you read my post? I said she does not have the depth to be leader.
    I did read your post. Besides your comments on Morgan's ability (which I agree with), you implied that her politics wins elections. I'm not sure I agree with that. What works locally can be very different from what works nationally, or from what works locally elsewhere.
    Emm. Not sure about the analysis on Loughborough being a bell-weather. Steve Dorrell held it as a safe Tory seat for years until the New Labour years. It has returned to the tory fold, like many english southern/midlands seats, now that Tony Blair is a distant memory. So, I suppose you could argue it is a bell-weather example of TB's reach, much like Broxtowe (again reasonably safe Tory seat until New Labour).

    In the early 70s L'borough was Labour, but then no doubt the seat's demographics were very different (I used to work there so know it a bit). Lots more industrial workers for a start.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    The question is, is why Dom Brind writing a thread about a very unlikely leadership contender? Or is it just a a barely veiled excuse to attack academies.

    Nothing wrong with writing about unlikely contenders - particularly when they are a declared candidate - even if it is to dismiss them. And the success or not of the latest academy plan will surely help inform how well she does, even if she does not get into the top 2. Seems perfectly relevant.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758



    True, but then if that is the case - where there's a coasting and complacent LEA - you'd expect the schools to continually leave it, either voluntarily, as they feel the dead weight of the Authority, or through compulsion as schools are judged to be failing.

    You mean that somewhere out there there is an LEA that isn't coasting and complacent? Where? Bradford sounds like a typical, maybe even above average LEA to me. In Bristol any school that underperformed (which was all of them, as the LEA made the Keystone Cops look efficient and effectual) was pushed straight into special measures and out of their control so they didn't have to do anything with it.

    The amusing thing was it never dawned on them that they were signing their own death warrants by doing that. They just carried on until they had only one secondary school left, which promptly took academy status behind their backs anyway. How thick can you get?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Nicky Morgan has a very good reputation in Loughborough as a constituency MP. She turned a bellwether midlands marginal seat into a comfortable Tory majority. Without wanting to rub salt in NickP's wounds, much like Broxtowe.

    I don't think she has the depth to be leader, but do not despise her politics. It wins elections, while Farage consistently loses.

    You could say the same of MPs from all sorts of ideological backgrounds. Tim Farron has perhaps done more than anyone to build a local powerbase but it doesn't mean that the opportunist gobby so and so should be PM.
    Did you read my post? I said she does not have the depth to be leader.
    I did read your post. Besides your comments on Morgan's ability (which I agree with), you implied that her politics wins elections. I'm not sure I agree with that. What works locally can be very different from what works nationally, or from what works locally elsewhere.
    Emm. Not sure about the analysis on Loughborough being a bell-weather. Steve Dorrell held it as a safe Tory seat for years until the New Labour years. It has returned to the tory fold, like many english southern/midlands seats, now that Tony Blair is a distant memory. So, I suppose you could argue it is a bell-weather example of TB's reach, much like Broxtowe (again reasonably safe Tory seat until New Labour).

    In the early 70s L'borough was Labour, but then no doubt the seat's demographics were very different (I used to work there so know it a bit). Lots more industrial workers for a start.
    When Stephen Dorrell held it the constituency had quite different boundaries, which is why he ditched it for the safe seat of Charnwood.

    Loughborough, Broxtowe, Nuneaton etc are where Labour lost the election last year, and Scotland obviously!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758

    ydoethur said:

    glw said:

    Five years ago the government was promoting academies on the basis that they would see different types of schools competing, and offer greater choice to parents. Now they are saying all state schools should become academies, presumably ending competition between types of schools and parental choices. Barmy.

    Different types of academy still competing with each other? The original idea of course was for different types of specialist school - one offering engineering (JCB Academy) one languages, one arts (Newent, Gloucestershire) one science (High School for Girls, Gloucester) etc. I would agree however that does seem to have been somewhat lost sight of.
    Of course, that only works if you have admissions policies that enable that choice to be meaningful. The biggest problem with the competition between schools is the concept of catchment areas.
    There is that, but also for such a model to work you need to run the specialist schools for higher year groups only. Otherwise you have the choice of specialising much too young or a disruptive enforced school change.

    If we had nationwide middle schools, it would work. But they don't come cheap.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Chrisg0000
    Running for leadership of #Conservatives, PM promised to get back employment/social policy from EU..

    Still waiting https://t.co/XC0mj3kg6L
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,022

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Very Private Eye. I thought for a very brief moment you were being serious about Nicky Morgan. It does remind us that while the government is imploding over the referendum it's still managing to wreak havoc esewhere

    I liked the way you managed to slip 'Jeremy Hunt' in for comparative purposes though I think you could have moved him from the 'hapless' column to the 'beleaguered' one. I can only think his 1% support with Conservative Home was a rounding error?

    To remind us that Labour have their own crackpots by introducing Lucy 'Edstone' 'Powell was smart. There has been some criticism of unbalanced headers lately.

    Then back with Graham Brady (known even to his his footballer wife Hale constituents as 'Thicko') and on to the governments 'defeats and retreats' then ending with George and his "megashambles budget"..........

    .......altogether an ejoyable and well rounded piece

    Hunt has a serious chance. Taking on, and beating, the health unions always goes down well.
    It's the way you tell 'em! According to DB Con Home gives him a 1% chance. I haven't disliked a Tory Minister more since Norman Tebbit.
    You are not the target electorate.
    Hunt is sly, manipulative, bullying, ruthless and in cahoots with the press barons. He also can be very elusive (not just the infamous hiding behind a tree when being sought over the BSkyB deal - he also has not appeared in the Commons on several occasions to answer questions on the strikes, leaving the hapless Gummer to field them). He has a certain superficial charm and feathers his own nest very nicely.

    I can see him getting to the top of the Conservative party and is a worthwhile value punt.
    Translation: I don't like his healthcare policy.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Very Private Eye. I thought for a very brief moment you were being serious about Nicky Morgan. It does remind us that while the government is imploding over the referendum it's still managing to wreak havoc esewhere

    I liked the way you managed to slip 'Jeremy Hunt' in for comparative purposes though I think you could have moved him from the 'hapless' column to the 'beleaguered' one. I can only think his 1% support with Conservative Home was a rounding error?

    To remind us that Labour have their own crackpots by introducing Lucy 'Edstone' 'Powell was smart. There has been some criticism of unbalanced headers lately.

    Then back with Graham Brady (known even to his his footballer wife Hale constituents as 'Thicko') and on to the governments 'defeats and retreats' then ending with George and his "megashambles budget"..........

    .......altogether an ejoyable and well rounded piece

    Hunt has a serious chance. Taking on, and beating, the health unions always goes down well.
    It's the way you tell 'em! According to DB Con Home gives him a 1% chance. I haven't disliked a Tory Minister more since Norman Tebbit.
    You are not the target electorate.
    Hunt is sly, manipulative, bullying, ruthless and in cahoots with the press barons. He also can be very elusive (not just the infamous hiding behind a tree when being sought over the BSkyB deal - he also has not appeared in the Commons on several occasions to answer questions on the strikes, leaving the hapless Gummer to field them). He has a certain superficial charm and feathers his own nest very nicely.

    I can see him getting to the top of the Conservative party and is a worthwhile value punt.
    Call me Mr Suspicious*, Dr, but do I get the feeling you have much the same view of Hunt that I have of Mr Gove and Mrs Clinton?

    *Technically that should be Dr Suspicious of course, but let's not stand on ceremony between friends.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,043

    Nicky Morgan has a very good reputation in Loughborough as a constituency MP. She turned a bellwether midlands marginal seat into a comfortable Tory majority. Without wanting to rub salt in NickP's wounds, much like Broxtowe.

    I don't think she has the depth to be leader, but do not despise her politics. It wins elections, while Farage consistently loses.

    You could say the same of MPs from all sorts of ideological backgrounds. Tim Farron has perhaps done more than anyone to build a local powerbase but it doesn't mean that the opportunist gobby so and so should be PM.
    Did you read my post? I said she does not have the depth to be leader.
    I did read your post. Besides your comments on Morgan's ability (which I agree with), you implied that her politics wins elections. I'm not sure I agree with that. What works locally can be very different from what works nationally, or from what works locally elsewhere.
    Emm. Not sure about the analysis on Loughborough being a bell-weather. Steve Dorrell held it as a safe Tory seat for years until the New Labour years. It has returned to the tory fold, like many english southern/midlands seats, now that Tony Blair is a distant memory. So, I suppose you could argue it is a bell-weather example of TB's reach, much like Broxtowe (again reasonably safe Tory seat until New Labour).

    In the early 70s L'borough was Labour, but then no doubt the seat's demographics were very different (I used to work there so know it a bit). Lots more industrial workers for a start.
    When Stephen Dorrell held it the constituency had quite different boundaries, which is why he ditched it for the safe seat of Charnwood.

    Loughborough, Broxtowe, Nuneaton etc are where Labour lost the election last year, and Scotland obviously!
    Ok, I didn't know the boundary had changed. Still, I agree it is example of where Labour lost, as is Broxtowe, Amber Valley and a whole string of other Mids seats. This shows the Himalayan scale of the mountain that Labour under Corbyn has to climb.
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