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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Rallings & Thrasher: LAB set to lose 150 seats in the May 5

SystemSystem Posts: 11,015
edited April 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Rallings & Thrasher: LAB set to lose 150 seats in the May 5th locals

Today it’s been the annual local elections briefing hosted by the Political Studies Association. As per usual Profs Rallings and Thrasher announced their predictions based on party performances in local by elections which take place almost every week.

Read the full story here


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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    150 seat losses sounds pretty good for Labour on these National Equivalent Vote share numbers to me.
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    Lib Dems doing quite well freed from the shackles of coalition.

    South West fight back?
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    More Londoners believe Zac Goldsmith has the “X Factor” needed to be Mayor, but that Sadiq Khan would work hardest for the capital, a new poll reveals today.

    The Opinium survey found that 28 per cent of adults in the capital see Conservative Mr Goldsmith as having that special something required to take over at City Hall, compared with 24 per cent for Labour’s Mr Khan, and 26 per cent saying neither of them.

    However, 32 per cent believe that Tooting MP Mr Khan would work hardest for London, with Richmond Park MP Mr Goldsmith on 27 per cent. Just under a third said “don’t know” and 11 per cent said “none of them”.

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/mayor/zac-goldsmith-has-x-factor-but-sadiq-khan-is-harder-working-says-poll-a3218271.html
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    As soon as Brown betrayed the nation by cancelling the election and ratifying Lisbon, Cameron immediately announced he could no longer hold a referendum on Lisbon etc ... he was up-front and honest and elected in 2010 on a different manifesto.

    Ah yes, the one where he pledged to cut immigration to 10's of thousands (no ifs, no buts).
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    More Londoners believe Zac Goldsmith has the “X Factor” needed to be Mayor, but that Sadiq Khan would work hardest for the capital, a new poll reveals today.

    They should run on a joint job-share ticket.
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    I'm sure some of the more EU obsessed Tories will say a 50 seat gain for the Tories means Dave must go
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,936

    Lib Dems doing quite well freed from the shackles of coalition.

    South West fight back?

    I am more inclined to think the Lib Dems are benefiting from a little of the same sort of luck that Cameron has had. If Labour had elected a mainstream leader instead of Corbyn I wonder if the Lib Dems would even exist today.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    FPT. tyson

    "She only said what most people were thinking. Not many people would want a skin headed, tattooed English flag draped, brutal looking chap living next to them. There again looks like be deceiving, and he might have been lovely and sweet- and the kind of neighbour you could give your house keys to, and let him feed your cats. "

    Tyson's right. Why did they sack the only Labour MP who had shown any taste or judgement during the whole campaign?
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    I'm sure some of the more EU obsessed Tories will say a 50 seat gain for the Tories means Dave must go

    I would say it's such a small number it shouldn't make much difference to anything.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Am I right in reading that Corbyn is claiming the UK should be imperialist and enforce direct rule on overseas territories?

    I thought Corbyn was a throwback to the 70s but didn't realise it was the 1870s.
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    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    Reculer pour mieux reculer
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,718

    I'm sure some of the more EU obsessed Tories will say a 50 seat gain for the Tories means Dave must go

    Given their reasons for wanting him gone have nothing to do with electoral performance, that's a given.

    As for these predictions, I'll believe a LD recovery, however minor, when I see it, and not a minute before.

    Corbyn's supporters have played quite a good expectations game, aided by apocalyptic predictions from his opponents - losing that many might run anywhere from awful to great for all I know, but it's a managable outcome given how long I feel I've been hearing they could lose even more than that.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    I'm sure some of the more EU obsessed Tories will say a 50 seat gain for the Tories means Dave must go

    It's OK TSE, I'll compromise and get rid of Osborne!
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Indigo said:

    As soon as Brown betrayed the nation by cancelling the election and ratifying Lisbon, Cameron immediately announced he could no longer hold a referendum on Lisbon etc ... he was up-front and honest and elected in 2010 on a different manifesto.

    Ah yes, the one where he pledged to cut immigration to 10's of thousands (no ifs, no buts).
    Yes he undeniably failed in that pledge and the UK got a chance to judge him for that failure as well as his successes in 2015. The UK's judgement was to reward him with a majority.
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    Lib Dems doing quite well freed from the shackles of coalition.

    South West fight back?

    I am more inclined to think the Lib Dems are benefiting from a little of the same sort of luck that Cameron has had. If Labour had elected a mainstream leader instead of Corbyn I wonder if the Lib Dems would even exist today.
    Yup, that is another factor.

    One of the things that stood out from the General Election book was had a little over 12,000 people voted differently last year, the Lib Dems would have had no MPs.

    One of the reasons these locals elections are so important are that they are up for re-election on the same day as the 2020 general election, lots of councillors help with the ground game.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,718

    More Londoners believe Zac Goldsmith has the “X Factor” needed to be Mayor, but that Sadiq Khan would work hardest for the capital, a new poll reveals today.

    They should run on a joint job-share ticket.
    So they'd be Roman Consuls?
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Roger said:

    FPT. tyson

    "She only said what most people were thinking. Not many people would want a skin headed, tattooed English flag draped, brutal looking chap living next to them. There again looks like be deceiving, and he might have been lovely and sweet- and the kind of neighbour you could give your house keys to, and let him feed your cats. "

    Tyson's right. Why did they sack the only Labour MP who had shown any taste or judgement during the whole campaign?

    You couldn't make it up, our two champagne socialists agreeing what ghastly people those working class proles with the white vans and the dog on a rope are.

    It presumably escaped your notice that his neighbour was probably a very similar sort of chap, with broadly similar tastes and didn't object to him at all.

    Labour: The Party of the working man.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914
    This points towards something like

    39 Conservatives
    24 Labour

    At the next GE.
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    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited April 2016
    Roger said:

    FPT. tyson

    "She only said what most people were thinking. Not many people would want a skin headed, tattooed English flag draped, brutal looking chap living next to them. There again looks like be deceiving, and he might have been lovely and sweet- and the kind of neighbour you could give your house keys to, and let him feed your cats. "

    Tyson's right. Why did they sack the only Labour MP who had shown any taste or judgement during the whole campaign?

    Because Labour high command understood that they still needed votes from the white working class, and that weren't enough sniffy voters in Islington/Cannes/Florence to get them anywhere near the winning line.

    Allowing 'Lt Col' Hyacinth Thornberry to hang around, whilst dropping her silky words of wisdom about the lower orders, was not going to help the party's cause.
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Indigo said:

    As soon as Brown betrayed the nation by cancelling the election and ratifying Lisbon, Cameron immediately announced he could no longer hold a referendum on Lisbon etc ... he was up-front and honest and elected in 2010 on a different manifesto.

    Ah yes, the one where he pledged to cut immigration to 10's of thousands (no ifs, no buts).
    Yes he undeniably failed in that pledge and the UK got a chance to judge him for that failure as well as his successes in 2015. The UK's judgement was to reward him with a majority.
    Which may or may not have been as a result of being up against Wallace and his monolith.
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    But comparing 2016 with 2012 is silly: everyone knows governments ALWAYS do worse in the second year of the electoral cycle than in the first.

    The relevant measure is going to be the national shares of the vote, compared to 2011 (the comparative first year of the last electoral cycle). Labour came 1% behind the Tories that year. If Corbyn can match or possibly even exceed that (which I would've thought impossible a few weeks ago, but now seems a bit more of a prospect) then he'll have had a reasonable night.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    As soon as Brown betrayed the nation by cancelling the election and ratifying Lisbon, Cameron immediately announced he could no longer hold a referendum on Lisbon etc ... he was up-front and honest and elected in 2010 on a different manifesto.

    Ah yes, the one where he pledged to cut immigration to 10's of thousands (no ifs, no buts).
    Yes he undeniably failed in that pledge and the UK got a chance to judge him for that failure as well as his successes in 2015. The UK's judgement was to reward him with a majority.
    Which may or may not have been as a result of being up against Wallace and his monolith.
    Indeed had a better alternative been around then who knows what else would have happened, but that's representative democracy for you. Considering that the share of the vote won by both Cameron's party and "Wallace and his monolith"'s party both increased despite the unprecedented levels of media attention for tertiary parties (like the Greens and UKIP being included in debates for the first time) ... what does that say about all the alternatives out there?
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,922
    Corbyn will get no blame for such an abject performance. Instead, it will be the fault of the BBC, Rupert Murdoch and some backbench Labour MPs no-one has heard of. And so Labour will trundle on to defeat in 2020.
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited April 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    This points towards something like

    39 Conservatives
    24 Labour

    At the next GE.

    No, because it would be only a marginally worse result as the first year in the last electoral cycle (Which ended with a 7-point Tory lead).
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Danny565 said:

    But comparing 2016 with 2012 is silly: everyone knows governments ALWAYS do worse in the second year of the electoral cycle than in the first.

    2017 could well be an exception.
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    What might save Labour and Corbyn is this, because this does have the potential to bugger predictions up.

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/716601729589059584
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Danny565 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    This points towards something like

    39 Conservatives
    24 Labour

    At the next GE.

    No, because it would be only a marginally worse result as the first year in the last electoral cycle (Which ended with a 7-point Tory lead).
    No the UNS would be something like 38-39 Con, 25-27 Lab.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    More Londoners believe Zac Goldsmith has the “X Factor” needed to be Mayor, but that Sadiq Khan would work hardest for the capital, a new poll reveals today.

    They should run on a joint job-share ticket.
    Like the EU Parliament?

    European Right nominates Juncker, European Left nominates Schulz. European right "wins" the election so Juncker gets to be President of the Commission and Schulz because he lost gets to be President of the European Parliament.

    Be like Ed Miliband being made President of Westminster Parliament because he lost the General Election.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    California - SUSA

    Trump 40 .. Cruz 32 .. Kasich 17
    Clinton 53 .. Sanders 39

    Clinton 60 .. Trump 26
    Clinton 57 .. Cruz 32
    Clinton 56 .. Kasich 33

    Sanders 63 .. Trump 24
    Sanders 61 .. Cruz 26
    Sanders 57 .. Kasich 28

    http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=4114a2c6-213f-4447-8c7b-eb137d8c3312
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    Danny565 said:

    But comparing 2016 with 2012 is silly: everyone knows governments ALWAYS do worse in the second year of the electoral cycle than in the first.

    2017 could well be an exception.
    2017 features the Scottish locals I believe, which could also bugger up NEV.
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    TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited April 2016
    There are a couple of factors that I think will hurt the Conservatives and lessen any labour losses.
    1. The state of the Government and its image with voters.
    2. The distraction of the referendum and the virtual strikes going on in some Associations over Cameron/Feldman/Osborne.

    The party is just not putting the effort in to win and many are holding back to save themselves for the referendum campaign.
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    Danny565 said:

    But comparing 2016 with 2012 is silly: everyone knows governments ALWAYS do worse in the second year of the electoral cycle than in the first.

    2017 could well be an exception.
    I highly doubt that.

    Equally, just to show how silly it is to use gains/losses as a guide when we're comparing 5-year general election cycles to 4-year local election cycles -- in 2019, Labour could make councillor gains even if they come something like 4% behind the Tories, simply because it would be better than the 7% deficit they suffered in 2015. But coming 4% behind in a mid-term year would clearly not be an indicator that they were on course for a general election win, no matter how many "gains" they'd made on paper.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914
    edited April 2016
    Danny565 said:

    But comparing 2016 with 2012 is silly: everyone knows governments ALWAYS do worse in the second year of the electoral cycle than in the first.

    The relevant measure is going to be the national shares of the vote, compared to 2011 (the comparative first year of the last electoral cycle). Labour came 1% behind the Tories that year. If Corbyn can match or possibly even exceed that (which I would've thought impossible a few weeks ago, but now seems a bit more of a prospect) then he'll have had a reasonable night.

    Checking:

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2014/05/27/guest-slot-rod-crosby-the-bell-tolls-for-labour-and-miliband/

    80 +2
    84 -1
    88 -1
    93 +8
    98 -4
    02 +1
    06 +13
    11 -1

    Can Labour improve on Billy Hague's 98 performance :) ?
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    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792

    Am I right in reading that Corbyn is claiming the UK should be imperialist and enforce direct rule on overseas territories?

    I thought Corbyn was a throwback to the 70s but didn't realise it was the 1870s.

    Corbyn has been compared to an old sea dog. Maybe he'll bring about a return to gun boat diplomacy.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,362
    edited April 2016

    There are a couple of factors that I think will hurt the Conservatives and lessen any labour losses.
    1. The state of the Government and its image with voters.
    2. The distraction of the referendum and the virtual strikes going on in some Associations over Cameron/Feldman/Osborne.

    The party is just not putting the effort in to win and many are holding back to save themselves for the referendum campaign.

    Nonsense.

    Seriously if you want to win the referendum, you get out and meet the voters for the referendum a few weeks later.

    I know Harrogate Tories are campaigning like it is a general election.

    Edit - Ditto Calderdale and Kirklees Tories
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914
    edited April 2016
    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    But comparing 2016 with 2012 is silly: everyone knows governments ALWAYS do worse in the second year of the electoral cycle than in the first.

    2017 could well be an exception.
    I highly doubt that.

    Equally, just to show how silly it is to use gains/losses as a guide when we're comparing 5-year general election cycles to 4-year local election cycles -- in 2019, Labour could make councillor gains even if they come something like 4% behind the Tories, simply because it would be better than the 7% deficit they suffered in 2015. But coming 4% behind in a mid-term year would clearly not be an indicator that they were on course for a general election win, no matter how many "gains" they'd made on paper.
    Yes, we're far better off using NEV rather than gains or losses - losses for Labour in 2019 would be beyond disastrous mind !

    NEV really doesn't look great for Labour though.
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    TSE re: Your good point on UKIP hurting the Conservatives in 2016 because they were a lesser force in 2012.
    It will depend on where they stand, they may even hurt Labour more if the "immigration" factor creeps into the voters thinking. If Labour do emphasise how pro-immigration they are their wwc vote could stay at home.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Interesting to note that the French economy which showed signs of life late last month is actually still stagnating. The preliminary PMIs had a composite figure of 51.2 showing some kind of growth, that has now come down to 50.0 on the final figure which is stagnation.

    The rest of the EU seems to be able to take advantage of the ECB's mega stimulus but the French are falling behind.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,183

    Corbyn will get no blame for such an abject performance. Instead, it will be the fault of the BBC, Rupert Murdoch and some backbench Labour MPs no-one has heard of. And so Labour will trundle on to defeat in 2020.

    But, but, he's taking the fight to the Tories.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914
    @Danny565 Labour should beat the Tories in NEV in 2017 judging by the last ~ 28 year trends.

    The problem is Con 32 Lab 33 in 2017 is a result the Tories would be very happy with.
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    runnymede said:

    Reculer pour mieux reculer

    lol
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    What might save Labour and Corbyn is this, because this does have the potential to bugger predictions up.

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/716601729589059584

    Wow "peak Kipper" really well and truly was 2013 wasn't it. Be interesting to see how 2017 compares to 2013.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914

    There are a couple of factors that I think will hurt the Conservatives and lessen any labour losses.
    1. The state of the Government and its image with voters.
    2. The distraction of the referendum and the virtual strikes going on in some Associations over Cameron/Feldman/Osborne.

    The party is just not putting the effort in to win and many are holding back to save themselves for the referendum campaign.

    Nonsense.

    Seriously if you want to win the referendum, you get out and meet the voters for the referendum a few weeks later.

    I know Harrogate Tories are campaigning like it is a general election.

    Edit - Ditto Calderdale and Kirklees Tories
    Actually you should be campaigning more than a General Election. There are no "safe seats", and every vote counts the same.
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Pulpstar said:

    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    But comparing 2016 with 2012 is silly: everyone knows governments ALWAYS do worse in the second year of the electoral cycle than in the first.

    2017 could well be an exception.
    I highly doubt that.

    Equally, just to show how silly it is to use gains/losses as a guide when we're comparing 5-year general election cycles to 4-year local election cycles -- in 2019, Labour could make councillor gains even if they come something like 4% behind the Tories, simply because it would be better than the 7% deficit they suffered in 2015. But coming 4% behind in a mid-term year would clearly not be an indicator that they were on course for a general election win, no matter how many "gains" they'd made on paper.
    Yes, we're far better off using NEV rather than gains or losses - losses for Labour in 2019 would be beyond disastrous mind !

    NEV really doesn't look great for Labour though.
    Oh, I agree a NEV 3% deficit would be poor if viewed through the prism of Labour having a ghost of a chance in 2020 -- but compared to the predictions of Labour annihilations, it's not too terrible.

    (Personally though, since that Rallings & Thrasher's prediction in the header is mostly based on local by-elections held before the Tories' meltdown over the last few weeks, I think Labour might well do a bit better than that--at the risk of getting egg on my face!)
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    TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited April 2016

    There are a couple of factors that I think will hurt the Conservatives and lessen any labour losses.
    1. The state of the Government and its image with voters.
    2. The distraction of the referendum and the virtual strikes going on in some Associations over Cameron/Feldman/Osborne.

    The party is just not putting the effort in to win and many are holding back to save themselves for the referendum campaign.

    Nonsense.
    Seriously if you want to win the referendum, you get out and meet the voters for the referendum a few weeks later.
    I know Harrogate Tories are campaigning like it is a general election.
    Edit - Ditto Calderdale Tories
    TSE I will not use your inexperience and youth of yourself, against you but for once do try and ignore the advice you get from the teenage scribblers at CCHQ.

    Activists typically have had enough by the time votes have been counted. They are very difficult to get back out to deliver or canvass a few weeks after a campaign - I know having worked with a 40+ delivery team. The thank you newsletters are usually better produced after at least a 2 week gap.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,610
    Arf!

    The Chief Minister of Guernsey has written to David Cameron offering to help the UK raise its own standards on beneficial ownership:

    https://twitter.com/letocq/status/717309912532000768
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,945
    MaxPB said:

    Interesting to note that the French economy which showed signs of life late last month is actually still stagnating. The preliminary PMIs had a composite figure of 51.2 showing some kind of growth, that has now come down to 50.0 on the final figure which is stagnation.

    The rest of the EU seems to be able to take advantage of the ECB's mega stimulus but the French are falling behind.

    I think that's absolutely right. Although I think you also need to give some credit to countries, like Spain, who liberalised their previously sclerotic labour markets and who are now seeing the benefits.
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    There are a couple of factors that I think will hurt the Conservatives and lessen any labour losses.
    1. The state of the Government and its image with voters.
    2. The distraction of the referendum and the virtual strikes going on in some Associations over Cameron/Feldman/Osborne.

    The party is just not putting the effort in to win and many are holding back to save themselves for the referendum campaign.

    Nonsense.
    Seriously if you want to win the referendum, you get out and meet the voters for the referendum a few weeks later.
    I know Harrogate Tories are campaigning like it is a general election.
    Edit - Ditto Calderdale Tories
    TSE I will not use the inexperience and youth of yourself in political campaigning against you and try and ignore the teenage scribblers at CCHQ.

    Activists typically have had enough by the time votes have been counted. They are very difficult to get back out to deliver or canvass a few weeks after a campaign - I know having worked with a 40+ delivery team. The thank you newsletters are usually better produced after at least a 2 week gap.
    I've campaigned in most electoral years since about 2001.

    JohnO shares the same opinion as me, but what do we know.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914

    What might save Labour and Corbyn is this, because this does have the potential to bugger predictions up.

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/716601729589059584

    Wow "peak Kipper" really well and truly was 2013 wasn't it. Be interesting to see how 2017 compares to 2013.
    "Seats contested" % on a huge rollercoaster. There are no deposits required at a local level, so it's not a money issue.
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    MaxPB said:

    Interesting to note that the French economy which showed signs of life late last month is actually still stagnating. The preliminary PMIs had a composite figure of 51.2 showing some kind of growth, that has now come down to 50.0 on the final figure which is stagnation.

    The rest of the EU seems to be able to take advantage of the ECB's mega stimulus but the French are falling behind.

    So they need us more than ever?
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Jamie Ross
    A beekeeper is asking Nicola Sturgeon about dementia in bees.
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    On topic, we should expect the Tories' difficulties to increase in the remaining month before the elections.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,183

    Jamie Ross
    A beekeeper is asking Nicola Sturgeon about dementia in bees.

    Sounds like one of Corbyn's PMQs questions.
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited April 2016
    BTW, I'm assuming there isn't an interactive tool online somewhere which allows you to project national shares of the votes for these local elections, and then simulates seat numbers based on your prediction?
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    :smiley:

    Jamie Ross
    A beekeeper is asking Nicola Sturgeon about dementia in bees.

    Sounds like one of Corbyn's PMQs questions.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Jamie Ross
    A beekeeper is asking Nicola Sturgeon about dementia in bees.

    Must be a buzz about the place ....
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,597
    So on 6th May will we be seeing the Farronite 451 popping champagne corks because they have gained control of some obscure parish council in a Cumbrian hamlet? Winning Where?

    If the LDs can come out with the most seat gains and ahead of the Kippers on NEV then they really will have cause to smile.
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Afternoon all.

    On past performance, is it unusual for an opposition party to lose council seats on May 5th?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914
    @ThescreamingEagles The campaign for the local elections has been extremely dignified so far, not one propaganda or piece of campaign lies through the letterbox. I hope it stays this way.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    MaxPB said:

    Interesting to note that the French economy which showed signs of life late last month is actually still stagnating. The preliminary PMIs had a composite figure of 51.2 showing some kind of growth, that has now come down to 50.0 on the final figure which is stagnation.

    The rest of the EU seems to be able to take advantage of the ECB's mega stimulus but the French are falling behind.

    Goodness knows where the French would be without that stimulus.
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    Afternoon all.

    On past performance, is it unusual for an opposition party to lose council seats on May 5th?

    Yup

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/03/01/the-task-for-corbyns-lab-on-may-2nd-match-previous-opposition-leaders-in-non-general-election-years/
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    edited April 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    @ThescreamingEagles The campaign for the local elections has been extremely dignified so far, not one propaganda or piece of campaign lies through the letterbox. I hope it stays this way.

    I thought I was being canvassed for the referendum this morning but the two sober, smartly dressed people on my doorstep turned out to be Jehovah's Witnesses. No actual political activity in these parts that I have noticed.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    I've also been crunching some extra numbers for my GDP prediction model (not doing too badly!) and getting the BoP figures into it. As if to demonstrate just why we need to leave the EU a very handy graph was present in the data:

    imagehttp://i.imgur.com/sSMpw4k.jpg

    Our presence in the EU is as a consumption nation and our wealth is draining out. Leaving won't be the worst thing in the world.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,945

    MaxPB said:

    Interesting to note that the French economy which showed signs of life late last month is actually still stagnating. The preliminary PMIs had a composite figure of 51.2 showing some kind of growth, that has now come down to 50.0 on the final figure which is stagnation.

    The rest of the EU seems to be able to take advantage of the ECB's mega stimulus but the French are falling behind.

    So they need us more than ever?
    I'm not sure the French are entirely rational
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,945
    taffys said:

    MaxPB said:

    Interesting to note that the French economy which showed signs of life late last month is actually still stagnating. The preliminary PMIs had a composite figure of 51.2 showing some kind of growth, that has now come down to 50.0 on the final figure which is stagnation.

    The rest of the EU seems to be able to take advantage of the ECB's mega stimulus but the French are falling behind.

    Goodness knows where the French would be without that stimulus.
    About 30 miles east of Dover?
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    @ThescreamingEagles The campaign for the local elections has been extremely dignified so far, not one propaganda or piece of campaign lies through the letterbox. I hope it stays this way.

    I can arrange for that to be changed :lol:
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Incidentally, there are some Rallings & Thrasher's numbers floating around on Twitter which are slightly different to those in the header:

    https://twitter.com/NCPoliticsUK/status/717263990188032000
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    @HuffPostUKPol · 1m1 minute ago

    Corbyn demands investigation into Cameron's tax affairs http://huff.to/1MaQc1z
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    @HuffPostUKPol · 1m1 minute ago

    Corbyn demands investigation into Cameron's tax affairs http://huff.to/1MaQc1z

    A judge led inquiry?
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    watford30 said:

    Roger said:

    FPT. tyson

    "She only said what most people were thinking. Not many people would want a skin headed, tattooed English flag draped, brutal looking chap living next to them. There again looks like be deceiving, and he might have been lovely and sweet- and the kind of neighbour you could give your house keys to, and let him feed your cats. "

    Tyson's right. Why did they sack the only Labour MP who had shown any taste or judgement during the whole campaign?

    Because Labour high command understood that they still needed votes from the white working class, and that weren't enough sniffy voters in Islington/Cannes/Florence to get them anywhere near the winning line.

    Allowing 'Lt Col' Hyacinth Thornberry to hang around, whilst dropping her silky words of wisdom about the lower orders, was not going to help the party's cause.
    I think you confuse 'white working class' with morons. Should we applaud Newcastle United fans who go without tops in December to show how hard they are?

    Is there no depth to which we shouldn't plunge in order to patronise these morons into thinking we think they're the salt of the earth?
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    @HuffPostUKPol · 1m1 minute ago

    Corbyn demands investigation into Cameron's tax affairs http://huff.to/1MaQc1z

    Much as I should be getting the pom-poms out for this, I can't help but feel Jezza is slightly contradicting his "leave family members alone" stance, by holding Dave accountable for what his dad did...
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Meanwhile, for all those who want to see the world frizzle in the long term to sort out a short term employment problem, an article that looks at the implications of energy prices for the steel industry:

    http://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-the-steel-crisis-and-uk-electricity-prices

    "Regardless of the relative prices in different countries, however, there’s a major problem with the argument that expensive electricity is at the heart of the UK steel industry’s problems. This is that electricity makes up a tiny share of steel production costs.

    Raw material, freight and labour costs make up the majority of production costs. These can vary significantly between countries. UK labour costs of around $200 per tonne of steel, for example, are some 20-fold higher than the $10 per tonne in China. Raw material costs and freight costs appear to show relatively wide variation between countries, despite global trade.

    The share of electricity in steel production costs is around 6%, according to one estimate for blast-furnace steel production, used at most major steelworks. The Committee on Climate Change (CCC) says energy makes up 5.2% of costs for “basic metals”, which includes steel. The CCC says it is around 6% for integrated steelworks like Port Talbot."
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,945
    MaxPB said:

    I've also been crunching some extra numbers for my GDP prediction model (not doing too badly!) and getting the BoP figures into it. As if to demonstrate just why we need to leave the EU a very handy graph was present in the data:

    imagehttp://i.imgur.com/sSMpw4k.jpg

    Our presence in the EU is as a consumption nation and our wealth is draining out. Leaving won't be the worst thing in the world.

    Surely that merely reflects the pattern of our imports and exports. Assuming we keep free trade with the EU, it's hard to see that changing very much.

    The reason we have a major current accout deficit is because our consumers borrow too much. There is a near perfect correlation between savings rates and current accounts. Simply, our consumers borrow too much.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914

    Afternoon all.

    On past performance, is it unusual for an opposition party to lose council seats on May 5th?

    Yes. Since 1980 it has happened on the following occasions:

    David Cameron on May 5th 2010.
    Tony Blair May 1st 1997
    Neil Kinnock 1992
    Neil Kinnock 1987
    Neil Kinnock 1985
    Michael Foot 1982
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    Meanwhile, for all those who want to see the world frizzle in the long term to sort out a short term employment problem, an article that looks at the implications of energy prices for the steel industry:

    http://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-the-steel-crisis-and-uk-electricity-prices

    "Regardless of the relative prices in different countries, however, there’s a major problem with the argument that expensive electricity is at the heart of the UK steel industry’s problems. This is that electricity makes up a tiny share of steel production costs.

    Raw material, freight and labour costs make up the majority of production costs. These can vary significantly between countries. UK labour costs of around $200 per tonne of steel, for example, are some 20-fold higher than the $10 per tonne in China. Raw material costs and freight costs appear to show relatively wide variation between countries, despite global trade.

    The share of electricity in steel production costs is around 6%, according to one estimate for blast-furnace steel production, used at most major steelworks. The Committee on Climate Change (CCC) says energy makes up 5.2% of costs for “basic metals”, which includes steel. The CCC says it is around 6% for integrated steelworks like Port Talbot."

    It's the direction of travel that is the key for investment decisions, I'm also very wary of trusting the CCC on anything to do with this.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,945

    Meanwhile, for all those who want to see the world frizzle in the long term to sort out a short term employment problem, an article that looks at the implications of energy prices for the steel industry:

    http://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-the-steel-crisis-and-uk-electricity-prices

    "Regardless of the relative prices in different countries, however, there’s a major problem with the argument that expensive electricity is at the heart of the UK steel industry’s problems. This is that electricity makes up a tiny share of steel production costs.

    Raw material, freight and labour costs make up the majority of production costs. These can vary significantly between countries. UK labour costs of around $200 per tonne of steel, for example, are some 20-fold higher than the $10 per tonne in China. Raw material costs and freight costs appear to show relatively wide variation between countries, despite global trade.

    The share of electricity in steel production costs is around 6%, according to one estimate for blast-furnace steel production, used at most major steelworks. The Committee on Climate Change (CCC) says energy makes up 5.2% of costs for “basic metals”, which includes steel. The CCC says it is around 6% for integrated steelworks like Port Talbot."

    Integrated steel mills are much more "people intensive" than modern mini mills.
  • Options
    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474

    @HuffPostUKPol · 1m1 minute ago

    Corbyn demands investigation into Cameron's tax affairs http://huff.to/1MaQc1z

    Why not a wide ranging investigation into the tax affairs of all MPs, including the filthy rich Labour ones?
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,362
    edited April 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    Afternoon all.

    On past performance, is it unusual for an opposition party to lose council seats on May 5th?

    Yes. Since 1980 it has happened on the following occasions:

    David Cameron on May 5th 2010.
    Tony Blair May 1st 1997
    Neil Kinnock 1992
    Neil Kinnock 1987
    Neil Kinnock 1985
    Michael Foot 1982
    So it is happened twice in non general election years
  • Options
    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976

    Afternoon all.

    On past performance, is it unusual for an opposition party to lose council seats on May 5th?

    Yup

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/03/01/the-task-for-corbyns-lab-on-may-2nd-match-previous-opposition-leaders-in-non-general-election-years/
    Blimey, I have no recollection of that thread from just last month, - must be an age thing!

    Off topic - According to Jeremy Corbyn the “UK tax havens 'should face direct rule'”

    Seems a tad over the top considering the UK does not have the authority to do so as far as I’m aware. I wonder if Jeremy is considering sending in ground troops to convince them?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35965855
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Meanwhile, for all those who want to see the world frizzle in the long term to sort out a short term employment problem, an article that looks at the implications of energy prices for the steel industry

    You really can't help yourself can you. Do you imagine that steel we import from China is made with higher or lower supervision of environmental standards, and with more or less polluting energy sources ? Its lucky we have all those solar powered container ships or we would be burning even more fossil fuel transporting that steel from China to the UK.
  • Options
    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited April 2016
    Roger said:

    watford30 said:

    Roger said:

    FPT. tyson

    "She only said what most people were thinking. Not many people would want a skin headed, tattooed English flag draped, brutal looking chap living next to them. There again looks like be deceiving, and he might have been lovely and sweet- and the kind of neighbour you could give your house keys to, and let him feed your cats. "

    Tyson's right. Why did they sack the only Labour MP who had shown any taste or judgement during the whole campaign?

    Because Labour high command understood that they still needed votes from the white working class, and that weren't enough sniffy voters in Islington/Cannes/Florence to get them anywhere near the winning line.

    Allowing 'Lt Col' Hyacinth Thornberry to hang around, whilst dropping her silky words of wisdom about the lower orders, was not going to help the party's cause.
    I think you confuse 'white working class' with morons. Should we applaud Newcastle United fans who go without tops in December to show how hard they are?

    Is there no depth to which we shouldn't plunge in order to patronise these morons into thinking we think they're the salt of the earth?
    Roger, you're suggesting that white van drivers, and those who choose to fly patriotic flags are morons. Correct?
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,255
    Sunil Prasannan ‏@Sunil_P2 · 2m2 minutes ago
    RIP Ackbar. But he stole the line from Princess Leia in Empire Strikes Back. She says it twice to Luke after he arrives on Bespin #itsatrap

  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    I've also been crunching some extra numbers for my GDP prediction model (not doing too badly!) and getting the BoP figures into it. As if to demonstrate just why we need to leave the EU a very handy graph was present in the data:

    imagehttp://i.imgur.com/sSMpw4k.jpg

    Our presence in the EU is as a consumption nation and our wealth is draining out. Leaving won't be the worst thing in the world.

    Surely that merely reflects the pattern of our imports and exports. Assuming we keep free trade with the EU, it's hard to see that changing very much.

    The reason we have a major current accout deficit is because our consumers borrow too much. There is a near perfect correlation between savings rates and current accounts. Simply, our consumers borrow too much.
    Well we import too much, so British consumers borrow money and spend it on imported tat. D:

    Being out of the EU would allow us to trade more freely with non-EU countries to act as a better counter-weight to our huge EU trade deficit.

    What has become clear over the last few years is that EU governments, companies and consumers aren't interested in buying British products other than where it is absolutely necessary, our deficit is widening and demand for British goods is showing no sign of growth. I actually think this will continue to be the case unless with go all in and join the EMU.
  • Options
    Roger said:

    watford30 said:

    Roger said:

    FPT. tyson

    "She only said what most people were thinking. Not many people would want a skin headed, tattooed English flag draped, brutal looking chap living next to them. There again looks like be deceiving, and he might have been lovely and sweet- and the kind of neighbour you could give your house keys to, and let him feed your cats. "

    Tyson's right. Why did they sack the only Labour MP who had shown any taste or judgement during the whole campaign?

    Because Labour high command understood that they still needed votes from the white working class, and that weren't enough sniffy voters in Islington/Cannes/Florence to get them anywhere near the winning line.

    Allowing 'Lt Col' Hyacinth Thornberry to hang around, whilst dropping her silky words of wisdom about the lower orders, was not going to help the party's cause.
    I think you confuse 'white working class' with morons. Should we applaud Newcastle United fans who go without tops in December to show how hard they are?
    Is there no depth to which we shouldn't plunge in order to patronise these morons into thinking we think they're the salt of the earth?
    Rog luv. Do please re-read what you have just written, unless you were joking.
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387

    Afternoon all.

    On past performance, is it unusual for an opposition party to lose council seats on May 5th?

    Yup

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/03/01/the-task-for-corbyns-lab-on-may-2nd-match-previous-opposition-leaders-in-non-general-election-years/
    Blimey, I have no recollection of that thread from just last month, - must be an age thing!

    Off topic - According to Jeremy Corbyn the “UK tax havens 'should face direct rule'”

    Seems a tad over the top considering the UK does not have the authority to do so as far as I’m aware. I wonder if Jeremy is considering sending in ground troops to convince them?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35965855
    we did for the Turks and Caicos in 2009, I believe that had a similar constitutional status
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,183

    Afternoon all.

    On past performance, is it unusual for an opposition party to lose council seats on May 5th?

    Yup

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/03/01/the-task-for-corbyns-lab-on-may-2nd-match-previous-opposition-leaders-in-non-general-election-years/
    Blimey, I have no recollection of that thread from just last month, - must be an age thing!

    Off topic - According to Jeremy Corbyn the “UK tax havens 'should face direct rule'”

    Seems a tad over the top considering the UK does not have the authority to do so as far as I’m aware. I wonder if Jeremy is considering sending in ground troops to convince them?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35965855
    Dan Hodges ‏@DPJHodges 29m29 minutes ago
    Why is Corbyn pussy footing around. Let's just invade Panama and be done with it...
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,326
    edited April 2016
    Apols if already reported, but there's another London poll:

    http://www.lbc.co.uk/sadiq-extends-lead-over-zac-lbc-poll-128085

    Khan ten points clear, slightly ahead on fighting terrorism, and Tories saying it's a relief it's not worse.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited April 2016
    watford30 said:

    @HuffPostUKPol · 1m1 minute ago

    Corbyn demands investigation into Cameron's tax affairs http://huff.to/1MaQc1z

    Why not a wide ranging investigation into the tax affairs of all MPs, including the filthy rich Labour ones?
    Because we know that like the whole Ashcroft non-dom thing, you start to turn over rocks and you find it isn't restricted to one party or another.

    After this and the past few weeks, we surely must expect a Labour lead in the polls shortly?
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,255

    Afternoon all.

    On past performance, is it unusual for an opposition party to lose council seats on May 5th?

    Yup

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/03/01/the-task-for-corbyns-lab-on-may-2nd-match-previous-opposition-leaders-in-non-general-election-years/
    Blimey, I have no recollection of that thread from just last month, - must be an age thing!

    Off topic - According to Jeremy Corbyn the “UK tax havens 'should face direct rule'”

    Seems a tad over the top considering the UK does not have the authority to do so as far as I’m aware. I wonder if Jeremy is considering sending in ground troops to convince them?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35965855
    Dan Hodges ‏@DPJHodges 29m29 minutes ago
    Why is Corbyn pussy footing around. Let's just invade Panama and be done with it...
    Panama isn't a UK tax haven!
  • Options

    watford30 said:

    @HuffPostUKPol · 1m1 minute ago

    Corbyn demands investigation into Cameron's tax affairs http://huff.to/1MaQc1z

    Why not a wide ranging investigation into the tax affairs of all MPs, including the filthy rich Labour ones?
    Because we know that like the whole Ashcroft non-dom thing, you start to turn over rocks and you find it isn't restricted to one party or another.

    After this and the past few weeks, we surely must expect a Labour lead in the polls shortly?
    We've already had one.
  • Options
    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    edited April 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    taffys said:

    MaxPB said:

    Interesting to note that the French economy which showed signs of life late last month is actually still stagnating. The preliminary PMIs had a composite figure of 51.2 showing some kind of growth, that has now come down to 50.0 on the final figure which is stagnation.

    The rest of the EU seems to be able to take advantage of the ECB's mega stimulus but the French are falling behind.

    Goodness knows where the French would be without that stimulus.
    About 30 miles east of Dover?
    SE ?
    Due East is Belgium. By a whisker
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,597
    Roger said:

    watford30 said:

    Roger said:

    FPT. tyson

    "She only said what most people were thinking. Not many people would want a skin headed, tattooed English flag draped, brutal looking chap living next to them. There again looks like be deceiving, and he might have been lovely and sweet- and the kind of neighbour you could give your house keys to, and let him feed your cats. "

    Tyson's right. Why did they sack the only Labour MP who had shown any taste or judgement during the whole campaign?

    Because Labour high command understood that they still needed votes from the white working class, and that weren't enough sniffy voters in Islington/Cannes/Florence to get them anywhere near the winning line.

    Allowing 'Lt Col' Hyacinth Thornberry to hang around, whilst dropping her silky words of wisdom about the lower orders, was not going to help the party's cause.
    Should we applaud Newcastle United fans who go without tops in December to show how hard they are?

    And that's just the women!
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited April 2016

    watford30 said:

    @HuffPostUKPol · 1m1 minute ago

    Corbyn demands investigation into Cameron's tax affairs http://huff.to/1MaQc1z

    Why not a wide ranging investigation into the tax affairs of all MPs, including the filthy rich Labour ones?
    Because we know that like the whole Ashcroft non-dom thing, you start to turn over rocks and you find it isn't restricted to one party or another.

    After this and the past few weeks, we surely must expect a Labour lead in the polls shortly?
    We've already had one.
    I meant to say Labour leads , as in consistent sign that they are ahead.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914
    edited April 2016

    Apols if already reported, but there's another London poll:

    http://www.lbc.co.uk/sadiq-extends-lead-over-zac-lbc-poll-128085

    Khan ten points clear, slightly ahead on fighting terrorism, and Tories saying it's a relief it's not worse.

    One problem Labour will on the morning after the LEs is that the start of the night is going to look very very grim, so alot of the papers will have gone to print with tales of disaster before the (better I'm guessing) London results are in.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited April 2016

    Afternoon all.

    On past performance, is it unusual for an opposition party to lose council seats on May 5th?

    Yup

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/03/01/the-task-for-corbyns-lab-on-may-2nd-match-previous-opposition-leaders-in-non-general-election-years/
    Blimey, I have no recollection of that thread from just last month, - must be an age thing!

    Off topic - According to Jeremy Corbyn the “UK tax havens 'should face direct rule'”

    Seems a tad over the top considering the UK does not have the authority to do so as far as I’m aware. I wonder if Jeremy is considering sending in ground troops to convince them?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35965855
    Dan Hodges ‏@DPJHodges 29m29 minutes ago
    Why is Corbyn pussy footing around. Let's just invade Panama and be done with it...
    Panama isn't a UK tax haven!
    Unless things have changed Panama is an interesting one. I believe they only tax money earned in Panama. Money earned outside is not taxed, be it a company or an individual irrespective of if they are residence / Panamanian national.

    Certain Colombian's love the place....
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Pulpstar said:

    Apols if already reported, but there's another London poll:

    http://www.lbc.co.uk/sadiq-extends-lead-over-zac-lbc-poll-128085

    Khan ten points clear, slightly ahead on fighting terrorism, and Tories saying it's a relief it's not worse.

    One problem Labour will on the morning after the LEs is that the start of the night is going to look very very grim, so alot of the papers will have gone to print with tales of disaster before the (better I'm guessing) London results are in.
    Based on Tower Hamlets' recent form, we'll be lucky if we even get the London mayoral results in time for the SATURDAY papers, nevermind the Friday ones.
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    Afternoon all.

    On past performance, is it unusual for an opposition party to lose council seats on May 5th?

    Yup

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/03/01/the-task-for-corbyns-lab-on-may-2nd-match-previous-opposition-leaders-in-non-general-election-years/
    Blimey, I have no recollection of that thread from just last month, - must be an age thing!

    Off topic - According to Jeremy Corbyn the “UK tax havens 'should face direct rule'”

    Seems a tad over the top considering the UK does not have the authority to do so as far as I’m aware. I wonder if Jeremy is considering sending in ground troops to convince them?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35965855
    With strict orders not to shoot. They can all go by unarmed Trident.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891

    watford30 said:

    @HuffPostUKPol · 1m1 minute ago

    Corbyn demands investigation into Cameron's tax affairs http://huff.to/1MaQc1z

    Why not a wide ranging investigation into the tax affairs of all MPs, including the filthy rich Labour ones?
    Because we know that like the whole Ashcroft non-dom thing, you start to turn over rocks and you find it isn't restricted to one party or another.

    After this and the past few weeks, we surely must expect a Labour lead in the polls shortly?
    This is the first fliker of light Labour have shown since the election. Perhaps the moment Corbyn was born for. Which other leader could we be confident that a release of his family tax affairs would show nothing but probity? I look forward to Cameron and his wife releasing their tax returns.
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Danny565 said:

    @HuffPostUKPol · 1m1 minute ago

    Corbyn demands investigation into Cameron's tax affairs http://huff.to/1MaQc1z

    Much as I should be getting the pom-poms out for this, I can't help but feel Jezza is slightly contradicting his "leave family members alone" stance, by holding Dave accountable for what his dad did...
    I wonder if Ed Miliband's dad or Hilary Benn's will get a mention.

    How are Ken Livingstone's arrangements these days?

    This issue has glass houses all over the place.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    Afternoon all.

    On past performance, is it unusual for an opposition party to lose council seats on May 5th?

    Yup

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/03/01/the-task-for-corbyns-lab-on-may-2nd-match-previous-opposition-leaders-in-non-general-election-years/
    Blimey, I have no recollection of that thread from just last month, - must be an age thing!

    Off topic - According to Jeremy Corbyn the “UK tax havens 'should face direct rule'”

    Seems a tad over the top considering the UK does not have the authority to do so as far as I’m aware. I wonder if Jeremy is considering sending in ground troops to convince them?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35965855
    This could have unexpected consequences. If the Falklands or Gibraltar became a part of the UK, some people would not be happy.
This discussion has been closed.