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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » This week’s PB Polling Matters TV Show on BREXIT turnout, T

SystemSystem Posts: 11,006
edited April 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » This week’s PB Polling Matters TV Show on BREXIT turnout, Trump and how to spread bet on politics

This week Keiran Pedley is on holiday so I took the chair for the first time to host the programme which turned out to be quite lively.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
  • Options
    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Second, Fagh!!!
  • Options
    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    OGH – all those years as a reporter when you should have been in front of the camera. :lol:
  • Options
    LondonBobLondonBob Posts: 467
    HYUFD said:

    JackW said:

    National - YouGov/Economist

    Trump 53 .. Cruz 25 .. Kasich 18
    Clinton 49 .. Sanders 41

    https://today.yougov.com/news/2016/04/13/tale-two-conventions/

    So Trump now 10% higher than Cruz and Kasich combined, while Hillary less than 10% ahead of Sanders
    http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-national-democratic-primary

    Will we see crossover by the time HRC wins though? Should just about at this rate.
  • Options
    tysontyson Posts: 6,049
    From the last thread'...

    I'm still waiting from the pb Universe for a good reason why someone (or company) would invest offshore other than being a criminal laundering cash or a tax avoider? This is entirely a selfish request. As a UK resident I need to put some money in a fund with low management costs and offers good returns. Simple links would be appreciated. Thank you in advance.
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    tyson said:

    From the last thread'...

    I'm still waiting from the pb Universe for a good reason why someone (or company) would invest offshore other than being a criminal laundering cash or a tax avoider? This is entirely a selfish request. As a UK resident I need to put some money in a fund with low management costs and offers good returns. Simple links would be appreciated. Thank you in advance.

    Oh.. so it was Clacton seafront where you were enjoying that Ristretto... ;)
  • Options
    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869
    FPT

    I've thought for quite a while that I am a convinced Leaver. Yesterday I realised that actually my head is a Don't Know.

    It's only my heart that says Leave, and the only reason is that we were taken in on a lie. I realised this when someone posted on here a comment about the Sir Edward Heath interview admitting that he lied.

    But that was then, this is now. Politicians always seem to have some subterfuge or other even if it doesn't amount to an outright lie. We are where we are, and my head doesn't know what would be the best route to take.

    For starters, I am ignoring all the propaganda & unpleasant personalities on both sides.

    Sir Edward left a legacy of poison for his cherished project, I'm afraid.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/720258395366899712

    "Be Leave" are listed as a supporting group in the submission. Who knew that our own Sunil was so involved?
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Yeah, the BBC is stuffed full of lefties.

    Unless you count Andrew "Thatcher's confidante" Neil.

    Or Laura "offered job as Cameron's spin doctor" Kuenssberg.

    Or James "went to Eton with Cameron" Landale.

    Or Nick "head of Tory society at university" Robinson.
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    To add to my previous post: there's nothing WRONG with Tories working for the BBC, but the idea that it's universally full of lefties doesn't really bear scrutiny.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2016
    Danny565 said:

    Yeah, the BBC is stuffed full of lefties.

    Unless you count Andrew "Thatcher's confidante" Neil.

    Or Laura "offered job as Cameron's spin doctor" Kuenssberg.

    Or James "went to Eton with Cameron" Landale.

    Or Nick "head of Tory society at university" Robinson.
    Fixed for you

    Neil is most likely right of centre, but nobody thinks he doesn't give Tories a massive hard time...

    Kuenssberg who offered advice to Team Corbyn...

    Landale has been booted for some strange reason (too Tory?) from politics job, hence why he has a replacement.

    Robinson offered job by Ed Miliband (as was Pienaar).

    Newsnight Team...lefty, lefty, lefty, lefty, lefty, lefty...every single one of them since Paxman went. More Guardian than the Guardian these days. Chance to replace a left, offered to Sun guy, gets veto'ed, lets go for the Guardian guy.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,920
    tyson said:

    From the last thread'...

    I'm still waiting from the pb Universe for a good reason why someone (or company) would invest offshore other than being a criminal laundering cash or a tax avoider? This is entirely a selfish request. As a UK resident I need to put some money in a fund with low management costs and offers good returns. Simple links would be appreciated. Thank you in advance.

    I'm sorry, but the decisions should - as much as possible - be left to the individual. Government oversight should be minimal.

    If I want to invest in Bolivian shares, or Iranian shares, or North Korean debt (yes it exists, no they're not keeping up on their interest payments), then surely that is my business.

    Of course, if people invest abroad, and have taxable income, and fail to declare it, that is a criminal offence and should be severely punished. But the government, simply, should not be in the business of banning things, simply because you don't understand why someone would want to do something.
  • Options
    TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited April 2016
    Danny565 said:

    Yeah, the BBC is stuffed full of lefties.
    Unless you count Andrew "Thatcher's confidante" Neil.
    ...
    Andrew Neil's Sunday Times was a very strong opponent of Thatcher for at least the last 3 or 4 years she was in charge. Also "Opposition to perceived public school and Oxbridge attitudes was a hallmark of Neil's Sunday Times editorship."

    oh and Mr Pienaar was being openly talked about joining Labour as its head of comms (either Brown or Ed Miliband - I forget which).


  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,940
    LondonBob said:

    HYUFD said:

    JackW said:

    National - YouGov/Economist

    Trump 53 .. Cruz 25 .. Kasich 18
    Clinton 49 .. Sanders 41

    https://today.yougov.com/news/2016/04/13/tale-two-conventions/

    So Trump now 10% higher than Cruz and Kasich combined, while Hillary less than 10% ahead of Sanders
    http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-national-democratic-primary

    Will we see crossover by the time HRC wins though? Should just about at this rate.
    Sanders really needs to win New York for it to be meaningful
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited April 2016

    Danny565 said:

    Yeah, the BBC is stuffed full of lefties.

    Unless you count Andrew "Thatcher's confidante" Neil.

    Or Laura "offered job as Cameron's spin doctor" Kuenssberg.

    Or James "went to Eton with Cameron" Landale.

    Or Nick "head of Tory society at university" Robinson.
    Fixed for you

    Neil is most likely right of centre, but nobody thinks he doesn't give Tories a massive hard time...

    Kuenssberg who offered advice to Team Corbyn...

    Landale has been booted for some strange reason (too Tory?) from politics job, hence why he has a replacement.

    Robinson offered job by Ed Miliband (as was Pienaar).
    Neil gives everyone a hard time, no matter what party. But you can't say rightwingers' private opinions don't matter if they "give Tories a hard time" onscreen, yet lefties' private views should disqualify from being on the BBC even if they (like Neil) are neutral on screen and give their favoured politicians a hard time when doing their job.

    And Kuenssberg "offering advice" to Team Corbyn.....please. It's kind of political journos jobs to talk to the party spin doctors. There are various reports/pictures of Nick Robinson having dinner with Cameron's press staff, if you really want to go down that route.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited April 2016
    FPT

    O/T: In Berlin (oddly for the first time) for a conference and afterwards went for a few hours round the centre. Really overwhelming history, with dozens of towering buildings, plaques and artistic displays commemorating massive events - the Brandenburg Gate, the Reichstag, Kennedy's speech, the Soviet war memorial... I went round the Holocaust museum, which is very well done - as you go in, you see a lot of anonymous concrete blocks, like forgotten tombs - then it takes you through the awful story, with commentaries and notes from survivors and the lost, and then you emerge, and at the exit the concrete blocks are 7 foot high with narrow passages to thread your way back to street normality.

    What really struck me about the exhibition was how completely random the Holocaust was - pictures of ordinary families in the 1920s going about their business, and footnotes that, say, 11 of the 13 people in the picture had been killed. It's like these cases you read about where a madman shoots a dozen random passers-by, escalated to nearly the whole continent.

    I know it's all been said before, but the museum is worthwhile for quietly bringing it home.

    If you have time visit the "Topography of Terror" near Checkpoint Charlie. It is an excellent museum of how the Nazis gradually established control of Berlin, with many political murders of Communists, Socialists, Trade Unionists etc in the 1930s. All an essential prelude to establishing the state that would attempt to kill so many others. Of great interest to anyone interested in politics, and how demogogues slide the boundary of what is acceptable until horror becomes mundane.

    Berlin is a fascinating and beautiful city. Hard to believe the horrors that lie buried.

  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,920

    Danny565 said:

    Yeah, the BBC is stuffed full of lefties.
    Unless you count Andrew "Thatcher's confidante" Neil.
    ...
    Andrew Neil's Sunday Times was a very strong opponent of Thatcher for at least the last 3 or 4 years she was in charge. Also "Opposition to perceived public school and Oxbridge attitudes was a hallmark of Neil's Sunday Times editorship."

    oh and Mr Pienaar was being openly talked about joining Labour as its head of comms (either Brown or Ed Miliband - I forget which).


    For the record, I'd work for any of the political parties so long as they paid well enough. I'm flexible like that.
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,001

    Danny565 said:

    Yeah, the BBC is stuffed full of lefties.

    Unless you count Andrew "Thatcher's confidante" Neil.

    Or Laura "offered job as Cameron's spin doctor" Kuenssberg.

    Or James "went to Eton with Cameron" Landale.

    Or Nick "head of Tory society at university" Robinson.
    Fixed for you

    Neil is most likely right of centre, but nobody thinks he doesn't give Tories a massive hard time...

    Kuenssberg who offered advice to Team Corbyn...

    Landale has been booted for some strange reason (too Tory?) from politics job, hence why he has a replacement.

    Robinson offered job by Ed Miliband (as was Pienaar).

    Newsnight Team...lefty, lefty, lefty, lefty, lefty, lefty...every single one of them since Paxman went. More Guardian than the Guardian these days. Chance to replace a left, offered to Sun guy, gets veto'ed, lets go for the Guardian guy.
    So it's OK to be a Tory (Neil) but not OK to be Labour (Lefty lefty lefty)
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    Danny565 said:

    Yeah, the BBC is stuffed full of lefties.
    Unless you count Andrew "Thatcher's confidante" Neil.
    ...
    Andrew Neil's Sunday Times was a very strong opponent of Thatcher for at least the last 3 or 4 years she was in charge. Also "Opposition to perceived public school and Oxbridge attitudes was a hallmark of Neil's Sunday Times editorship."

    oh and Mr Pienaar was being openly talked about joining Labour as its head of comms (either Brown or Ed Miliband - I forget which).


    For the record, I'd work for any of the political parties so long as they paid well enough. I'm flexible like that.
    BNP? Britain First? SWP?
  • Options
    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    SeanT said:

    Danny565 said:

    To add to my previous post: there's nothing WRONG with Tories working for the BBC, but the idea that it's universally full of lefties doesn't really bear scrutiny.

    Yes, it does.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-490047/Facebook-reveals-BBC-liberal-hotbed.html

    I personally LIKE the BBC, not least because I know zillions of people who work there, and they are good friends. But they are ALL lefties.
    Of course that's right - and it isn't surprising either. People with left wing attitudes are attracted to working in the BBC. And people there with left wing views tend to hire similar sorts of people.

    Precisely the reverse happens in other kinds of organisations, of course.
  • Options
    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,920

    rcs1000 said:

    Danny565 said:

    Yeah, the BBC is stuffed full of lefties.
    Unless you count Andrew "Thatcher's confidante" Neil.
    ...
    Andrew Neil's Sunday Times was a very strong opponent of Thatcher for at least the last 3 or 4 years she was in charge. Also "Opposition to perceived public school and Oxbridge attitudes was a hallmark of Neil's Sunday Times editorship."

    oh and Mr Pienaar was being openly talked about joining Labour as its head of comms (either Brown or Ed Miliband - I forget which).


    For the record, I'd work for any of the political parties so long as they paid well enough. I'm flexible like that.
    BNP? Britain First? SWP?
    Yes, of course.

    They'd have to pay really well, mind.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2016
    EPG said:

    Danny565 said:

    Yeah, the BBC is stuffed full of lefties.

    Unless you count Andrew "Thatcher's confidante" Neil.

    Or Laura "offered job as Cameron's spin doctor" Kuenssberg.

    Or James "went to Eton with Cameron" Landale.

    Or Nick "head of Tory society at university" Robinson.
    Fixed for you

    Neil is most likely right of centre, but nobody thinks he doesn't give Tories a massive hard time...

    Kuenssberg who offered advice to Team Corbyn...

    Landale has been booted for some strange reason (too Tory?) from politics job, hence why he has a replacement.

    Robinson offered job by Ed Miliband (as was Pienaar).

    Newsnight Team...lefty, lefty, lefty, lefty, lefty, lefty...every single one of them since Paxman went. More Guardian than the Guardian these days. Chance to replace a left, offered to Sun guy, gets veto'ed, lets go for the Guardian guy.
    So it's OK to be a Tory (Neil) but not OK to be Labour (Lefty lefty lefty)
    No, I am "giving" you Neil leans Tory. But the rest don't. And Newsnight is just a joke now, every single one of them are lefy with most ex-Guardian, there is absolutely no balance there. Then when the editor says ok lets hire a right wing guy, the higher up veto it and they hire YET another Guardianista.
  • Options
    tysontyson Posts: 6,049
    You've just answered my question- unless you have some fetish interest in say Peruvian warrants, or North Korean debt- and so are honest and declare it, then the people who invest offshore are criminals laundering money or tax avoiders. Unless, that is you live in said country like I did.

    Cameron was at his terrible and cynical worst when he said millions invest offshore. More like 99% of folk are clueless about offshore funds, so he can say what he likes.

    At it's best Cameron's family wealth was made by enticing funds from investors to avoid exchange controls. At its worse, it was fund a designed to attract monies from criminal and tax avoiders. Whichever, I wouldn't be too proud about it.
    rcs1000 said:

    tyson said:

    From the last thread'...

    I'm still waiting from the pb Universe for a good reason why someone (or company) would invest offshore other than being a criminal laundering cash or a tax avoider? This is entirely a selfish request. As a UK resident I need to put some money in a fund with low management costs and offers good returns. Simple links would be appreciated. Thank you in advance.

    I'm sorry, but the decisions should - as much as possible - be left to the individual. Government oversight should be minimal.

    If I want to invest in Bolivian shares, or Iranian shares, or North Korean debt (yes it exists, no they're not keeping up on their interest payments), then surely that is my business.

    Of course, if people invest abroad, and have taxable income, and fail to declare it, that is a criminal offence and should be severely punished. But the government, simply, should not be in the business of banning things, simply because you don't understand why someone would want to do something.
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Watched the US part of the podcast. The truth is that Clinton's lead is virtually insurmountable, because of the Superdelegates.

    To try and persuade superdelegates to switch to Sanders, democratic voters would need a list of them plus contact information.

    Here it is -

    superdelegatelist.com
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Danny565 said:

    Yeah, the BBC is stuffed full of lefties.
    Unless you count Andrew "Thatcher's confidante" Neil.
    ...
    Andrew Neil's Sunday Times was a very strong opponent of Thatcher for at least the last 3 or 4 years she was in charge. Also "Opposition to perceived public school and Oxbridge attitudes was a hallmark of Neil's Sunday Times editorship."

    oh and Mr Pienaar was being openly talked about joining Labour as its head of comms (either Brown or Ed Miliband - I forget which).


    For the record, I'd work for any of the political parties so long as they paid well enough. I'm flexible like that.
    BNP? Britain First? SWP?
    Yes, of course.

    They'd have to pay really well, mind.
    I have this vision of you being the embattled UKIP spin doctor from that CH4 spoof battle bus thing they did during the GE.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,920
    tyson said:

    You've just answered my question- unless you have some fetish interest in say Peruvian warrants, or North Korean debt- and so are honest and declare it, then the people who invest offshore are criminals laundering money or tax avoiders. Unless, that is you live in said country like I did.

    Cameron was at his terrible and cynical worst when he said millions invest offshore. More like 99% of folk are clueless about offshore funds, so he can say what he likes.

    At it's best Cameron's family wealth was made by enticing funds from investors to avoid exchange controls. At its worse, it was fund a designed to attract monies from criminal and tax avoiders. Whichever, I wouldn't be too proud about it.

    rcs1000 said:

    tyson said:

    From the last thread'...

    I'm still waiting from the pb Universe for a good reason why someone (or company) would invest offshore other than being a criminal laundering cash or a tax avoider? This is entirely a selfish request. As a UK resident I need to put some money in a fund with low management costs and offers good returns. Simple links would be appreciated. Thank you in advance.

    I'm sorry, but the decisions should - as much as possible - be left to the individual. Government oversight should be minimal.

    If I want to invest in Bolivian shares, or Iranian shares, or North Korean debt (yes it exists, no they're not keeping up on their interest payments), then surely that is my business.

    Of course, if people invest abroad, and have taxable income, and fail to declare it, that is a criminal offence and should be severely punished. But the government, simply, should not be in the business of banning things, simply because you don't understand why someone would want to do something.
    Maybe the government should publish a list of things people are allowed to do. Maybe that would work better.

    (Actually, with the "avoid drugs, m'kay" bill they are heading down that route already.)
  • Options
    sladeslade Posts: 1,929
    I crossed the Equator by sea for the first time today and witnessed the Neptune ceremony. Also went to a lecture on Space Law and the Equator by the leading expert on the field. Fascinating stuff - centred around the claim by the Group of 77 ( made up of all states with equatorial territories) who claim that all space above their land mass is their sovereign territory. But the crucial question is where does space begin and end?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,920

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Danny565 said:

    Yeah, the BBC is stuffed full of lefties.
    Unless you count Andrew "Thatcher's confidante" Neil.
    ...
    Andrew Neil's Sunday Times was a very strong opponent of Thatcher for at least the last 3 or 4 years she was in charge. Also "Opposition to perceived public school and Oxbridge attitudes was a hallmark of Neil's Sunday Times editorship."

    oh and Mr Pienaar was being openly talked about joining Labour as its head of comms (either Brown or Ed Miliband - I forget which).


    For the record, I'd work for any of the political parties so long as they paid well enough. I'm flexible like that.
    BNP? Britain First? SWP?
    Yes, of course.

    They'd have to pay really well, mind.
    I have this vision of you being the embattled UKIP spin doctor from that CH4 spoof battle bus thing they did during the GE.
    Assuming I was paid well enough, I would work my socks off for any of the extremist parties - Britain First, the SWP, or the Greens - but I can't guarantee that I'd be any good.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    A FIFTH of people on streets of England 'already know' the name of celebrity love cheat who gagged the Press from revealing his identity,

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3537402/People-streets-England-know-celebrity-love-cheat.html

    What you have found there....4/5th don't use twitter...
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,920
    slade said:

    I crossed the Equator by sea for the first time today and witnessed the Neptune ceremony. Also went to a lecture on Space Law and the Equator by the leading expert on the field. Fascinating stuff - centred around the claim by the Group of 77 ( made up of all states with equatorial territories) who claim that all space above their land mass is their sovereign territory. But the crucial question is where does space begin and end?

    Croydon
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,920

    A FIFTH of people on streets of England 'already know' the name of celebrity love cheat who gagged the Press from revealing his identity,

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3537402/People-streets-England-know-celebrity-love-cheat.html

    What you have found there....4/5th don't use twitter...

    LOL
  • Options
    tysontyson Posts: 6,049
    I think anyone (or company) who has invested in an offshore fund should be named, and their tax returns published online. Namely, that a requirement of investing offshore is that you should publish your tax return and be named- as per the Panama papers.

    The problem with getting people to show their tax returns is that we still only see what they are prepared to show the state.

    Cameron really has shown us what he wants to show us.
    rcs1000 said:

    tyson said:

    You've just answered my question- unless you have some fetish interest in say Peruvian warrants, or North Korean debt- and so are honest and declare it, then the people who invest offshore are criminals laundering money or tax avoiders. Unless, that is you live in said country like I did.

    Cameron was at his terrible and cynical worst when he said millions invest offshore. More like 99% of folk are clueless about offshore funds, so he can say what he likes.

    At it's best Cameron's family wealth was made by enticing funds from investors to avoid exchange controls. At its worse, it was fund a designed to attract monies from criminal and tax avoiders. Whichever, I wouldn't be too proud about it.

    rcs1000 said:

    tyson said:

    From the last thread'...

    I'm still waiting from the pb Universe for a good reason why someone (or company) would invest offshore other than being a criminal laundering cash or a tax avoider? This is entirely a selfish request. As a UK resident I need to put some money in a fund with low management costs and offers good returns. Simple links would be appreciated. Thank you in advance.

    I'm sorry, but the decisions should - as much as possible - be left to the individual. Government oversight should be minimal.

    If I want to invest in Bolivian shares, or Iranian shares, or North Korean debt (yes it exists, no they're not keeping up on their interest payments), then surely that is my business.

    Of course, if people invest abroad, and have taxable income, and fail to declare it, that is a criminal offence and should be severely punished. But the government, simply, should not be in the business of banning things, simply because you don't understand why someone would want to do something.
    Maybe the government should publish a list of things people are allowed to do. Maybe that would work better.

    (Actually, with the "avoid drugs, m'kay" bill they are heading down that route already.)
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,890
    SeanT said:

    FPT

    O/T: In Berlin (oddly for the first time) for a conference and afterwards went for a few hours round the centre. Really overwhelming history, with dozens of towering buildings, plaques and artistic displays commemorating massive events - the Brandenburg Gate, the Reichstag, Kennedy's speech, the Soviet war memorial... I went round the Holocaust museum, which is very well done - as you go in, you see a lot of anonymous concrete blocks, like forgotten tombs - then it takes you through the awful story, with commentaries and notes from survivors and the lost, and then you emerge, and at the exit the concrete blocks are 7 foot high with narrow passages to thread your way back to street normality.

    What really struck me about the exhibition was how completely random the Holocaust was - pictures of ordinary families in the 1920s going about their business, and footnotes that, say, 11 of the 13 people in the picture had been killed. It's like these cases you read about where a madman shoots a dozen random passers-by, escalated to nearly the whole continent.

    I know it's all been said before, but the museum is worthwhile for quietly bringing it home.

    If you have time visit the excellent "Topography of Terror" near Checkpoint Charlie. It is an excellent museum of how the Nazis gradually established control of Berlin, with many political murders of Communists, Socialists, Trade Unionists etc in the 1930s. All an essential prelude to establishing the state that would attempt to kill so many others. Of great interest to anyone interested in politics, and how demogogues slide the boundary of what is acceptable until horror becomes mumdane.

    Berlin is a fascinating and beautiful city. Hard to believe the horrors that lie buried.

    What I loved about Berlin is the holes. The shrapnel scars and bomb wounds, visible in almost every building pre 1945. You can see these in London, from the Blitz and the V1 campaign, and I love spotting them (Bloomsbury is good for this) but Berlin has millions of these war-wounds.

    On my first visit there I took Antony Beevor's extraordinary BERLIN, with me, to read, and I wandered around even as I stopped off in cafes and cars to rip through his compelling Gotterdammerung prose. It was like reading Tolkien on a walking tour of Mordor with Bilbo Baggins.
    Yet again, you show why you are a professional writer.
  • Options
    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    SeanT said:

    tyson said:

    From the last thread'...

    I'm still waiting from the pb Universe for a good reason why someone (or company) would invest offshore other than being a criminal laundering cash or a tax avoider? This is entirely a selfish request. As a UK resident I need to put some money in a fund with low management costs and offers good returns. Simple links would be appreciated. Thank you in advance.


    The best investment in the future, for all of us, is having kids. Instead you chose to have CATS.
    All your base are belong to him.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    SeanT said:

    I just drank a bottle of Barolo in about 50 minutes. By myself.

    Help.

    But good red wine is so LOVELY.

    No name / price dropping very disappointing lack of details.
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    On topic:- a big fan of OGH elbowing Mr Pedley out of the show he founded, like a true Eastenders villain.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,918
    slade said:

    I crossed the Equator by sea for the first time today and witnessed the Neptune ceremony. Also went to a lecture on Space Law and the Equator by the leading expert on the field. Fascinating stuff - centred around the claim by the Group of 77 ( made up of all states with equatorial territories) who claim that all space above their land mass is their sovereign territory. But the crucial question is where does space begin and end?

    Someone posted Croydon, but it’s obvious that the answer is the River Stour, the Northern border of Essex.
  • Options
    hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    SeanT said:

    Danny565 said:

    To add to my previous post: there's nothing WRONG with Tories working for the BBC, but the idea that it's universally full of lefties doesn't really bear scrutiny.

    Yes, it does.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-490047/Facebook-reveals-BBC-liberal-hotbed.html

    I personally LIKE the BBC, not least because I know zillions of people who work there, and they are good friends. But they are ALL lefties.
    And they've sat for 13 months on documents given to them by Gordon Bowden in respect of 788 790 Finchley Road .......nothing to see here, move along licence payers. ....yeah right when senor bbc execs are implicated in the fraud, theft and money laundering.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,890

    slade said:

    I crossed the Equator by sea for the first time today and witnessed the Neptune ceremony. Also went to a lecture on Space Law and the Equator by the leading expert on the field. Fascinating stuff - centred around the claim by the Group of 77 ( made up of all states with equatorial territories) who claim that all space above their land mass is their sovereign territory. But the crucial question is where does space begin and end?

    Someone posted Croydon, but it’s obvious that the answer is the River Stour, the Northern border of Essex.
    Nah, the Dove, the river about which the Compleat Angler was written. Although the fact it borders Staffordshire is obviously a black mark on its scorecard.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    hunchman said:

    SeanT said:

    Danny565 said:

    To add to my previous post: there's nothing WRONG with Tories working for the BBC, but the idea that it's universally full of lefties doesn't really bear scrutiny.

    Yes, it does.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-490047/Facebook-reveals-BBC-liberal-hotbed.html

    I personally LIKE the BBC, not least because I know zillions of people who work there, and they are good friends. But they are ALL lefties.
    And they've sat for 13 months on documents given to them by Gordon Bowden in respect of 788 790 Finchley Road .......nothing to see here, move along licence payers. ....yeah right when senor bbc execs are implicated in the fraud, theft and money laundering.
    Why would he give them the documents then?
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    On topic.

    For the US segment, Trump getting the nomination depends on 5 unknowns:

    1. Pennsylvania Unpledged Delegates.
    2. Indiana
    3. Montana
    4. Washington
    5. California

    Trump can afford to underperform and lose only in 2 out of those 5.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    tyson said:

    You've just answered my question- unless you have some fetish interest in say Peruvian warrants, or North Korean debt- and so are honest and declare it, then the people who invest offshore are criminals laundering money or tax avoiders. Unless, that is you live in said country like I did.

    Cameron was at his terrible and cynical worst when he said millions invest offshore. More like 99% of folk are clueless about offshore funds, so he can say what he likes.

    At it's best Cameron's family wealth was made by enticing funds from investors to avoid exchange controls. At its worse, it was fund a designed to attract monies from criminal and tax avoiders. Whichever, I wouldn't be too proud about it.

    rcs1000 said:

    tyson said:

    From the last thread'...

    I'm still waiting from the pb Universe for a good reason why someone (or company) would invest offshore other than being a criminal laundering cash or a tax avoider? This is entirely a selfish request. As a UK resident I need to put some money in a fund with low management costs and offers good returns. Simple links would be appreciated. Thank you in advance.

    I'm sorry, but the decisions should - as much as possible - be left to the individual. Government oversight should be minimal.

    If I want to invest in Bolivian shares, or Iranian shares, or North Korean debt (yes it exists, no they're not keeping up on their interest payments), then surely that is my business.

    Of course, if people invest abroad, and have taxable income, and fail to declare it, that is a criminal offence and should be severely punished. But the government, simply, should not be in the business of banning things, simply because you don't understand why someone would want to do something.
    You are being utterly absurd.

    If I think that shares in Singapore are going to go up in value so I invest in Singapore shares which am I: criminal or a tax avoider?

    Besides it makes perfect sense (especially if saving for the long term eg pensions) to have a diverse portfolio of investments.
  • Options
    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    tyson said:

    You've just answered my question- unless you have some fetish interest in say Peruvian warrants, or North Korean debt- and so are honest and declare it, then the people who invest offshore are criminals laundering money or tax avoiders. Unless, that is you live in said country like I did.

    Cameron was at his terrible and cynical worst when he said millions invest offshore. More like 99% of folk are clueless about offshore funds, so he can say what he likes.

    At it's best Cameron's family wealth was made by enticing funds from investors to avoid exchange controls. At its worse, it was fund a designed to attract monies from criminal and tax avoiders. Whichever, I wouldn't be too proud about it.

    rcs1000 said:

    tyson said:

    From the last thread'...

    I'm still waiting from the pb Universe for a good reason why someone (or company) would invest offshore other than being a criminal laundering cash or a tax avoider? This is entirely a selfish request. As a UK resident I need to put some money in a fund with low management costs and offers good returns. Simple links would be appreciated. Thank you in advance.

    I'm sorry, but the decisions should - as much as possible - be left to the individual. Government oversight should be minimal.

    If I want to invest in Bolivian shares, or Iranian shares, or North Korean debt (yes it exists, no they're not keeping up on their interest payments), then surely that is my business.

    Of course, if people invest abroad, and have taxable income, and fail to declare it, that is a criminal offence and should be severely punished. But the government, simply, should not be in the business of banning things, simply because you don't understand why someone would want to do something.
    You are being utterly absurd.

    If I think that shares in Singapore are going to go up in value so I invest in Singapore shares which am I: criminal or a tax avoider?

    Besides it makes perfect sense (especially if saving for the long term eg pensions) to have a diverse portfolio of investments.

    "I invest in Singapore shares which am I: criminal or a tax avoider?"

    Both. Obv.

  • Options
    tysontyson Posts: 6,049
    The trick with a great red wine is to take the air out and cork it after the first (or at a hedonistic most 2nd glass)- it gets better if anything the days after. And then to carry on with plonk.

    The law of diminishing returns was probably designed for red wine.

    Easier said than done mind. I've been know to demolish a great bottle of wine in my time. 50 mins is slow.
    SeanT said:

    I just drank a bottle of Barolo in about 50 minutes. By myself.

    Help.

    But good red wine is so LOVELY.

  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,920
    hunchman said:

    SeanT said:

    Danny565 said:

    To add to my previous post: there's nothing WRONG with Tories working for the BBC, but the idea that it's universally full of lefties doesn't really bear scrutiny.

    Yes, it does.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-490047/Facebook-reveals-BBC-liberal-hotbed.html

    I personally LIKE the BBC, not least because I know zillions of people who work there, and they are good friends. But they are ALL lefties.
    And they've sat for 13 months on documents given to them by Gordon Bowden in respect of 788 790 Finchley Road .......nothing to see here, move along licence payers. ....yeah right when senor bbc execs are implicated in the fraud, theft and money laundering.
    That's because the story is patently bullshit.

    Let's just imagine for a second that I wanted to set up a web of companies, for funneling billions of pounds of money.

    Would I:
    (a) have companies that had directors for exactly one day before being transferred to someone else
    or
    (b) simple generate a fake name at a PO Box (or a foreign address) for the director

    A is evidence that the 788-790 Finchley Road was a factory for making off the shelf private companies. The only reason a firm would have a director for a day before being sold was if it was being used to simplify business creation.

    Go look at the addresses used by any of the big company creation businesses - Paramount Formations, Ltd Companies Ltd, etc. You know what they all have at their address: yes, lots of businesses that have a director for a day before changing owner. It's not evidence of fraud: it's evidence that 788-790 Finchley Road was used for a company formation service.

    As a matter of interest, what benefit would someone dodgy have in having 'directors for a day'? It makes no sense, their name is still on the company docs.

    If I were doing fraudulent shit (and that's a technical term), I'd go for B. Why? Because there is basically no documentation required for being registered as a director of a business. Jose Smith of PO Box 232a in - ohh..... - Zagreb, would be essentially untraceable, and would be completely legal, and would comprehensively hide true beneficial ownership.
  • Options
    tysontyson Posts: 6,049
    Really, absurd??

    I can invest in Singapore shares through UK investment funds- I can spend all day researching and choose the best Singapore based investment funds looking at their returns and management costs. There are gazillions of UK based funds investing in whatever you want- Singapore being one.

    If I was to invest in a Singapore single company on their stock market I would have to meet their requirements, and most likely demonstrate some kind off residency.

    Or I could invest in an offshore fund specialising in Singapore (or Singapore based)- and pay a higher management charge, and most likely get lower returns.

    But if you know some Singapore funds that have great returns and low management costs give me the link. I'm happy to diversify.



    I'm sorry, but the decisions should - as much as possible - be left to the individual. Government oversight should be minimal.

    If I want to invest in Bolivian shares, or Iranian shares, or North Korean debt (yes it exists, no they're not keeping up on their interest payments), then surely that is my business.

    Of course, if people invest abroad, and have taxable income, and fail to declare it, that is a criminal offence and should be severely punished. But the government, simply, should not be in the business of banning things, simply because you don't understand why someone would want to do something.


    You are being utterly absurd.

    If I think that shares in Singapore are going to go up in value so I invest in Singapore shares which am I: criminal or a tax avoider?

    Besides it makes perfect sense (especially if saving for the long term eg pensions) to have a diverse portfolio of investments.
  • Options
    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    Is it 'pub bore impersonation night' on here this evening? A couple of excellent entries...
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,920
    runnymede said:

    Is it 'pub bore impersonation night' on here this evening? A couple of excellent entries...

    I hope I'm not guilty :lol:
  • Options
    tysontyson Posts: 6,049
    Guilty as charged, and with a sad and sorry history of prior misdemeanours.



    rcs1000 said:

    runnymede said:

    Is it 'pub bore impersonation night' on here this evening? A couple of excellent entries...

    I hope I'm not guilty :lol:
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited April 2016

    FPT

    O/T: In Berlin (oddly for the first time) for a conference and afterwards went for a few hours round the centre. Really overwhelming history, with dozens of towering buildings, plaques and artistic displays commemorating massive events - the Brandenburg Gate, the Reichstag, Kennedy's speech, the Soviet war memorial... I went round the Holocaust museum, which is very well done - as you go in, you see a lot of anonymous concrete blocks, like forgotten tombs - then it takes you through the awful story, with commentaries and notes from survivors and the lost, and then you emerge, and at the exit the concrete blocks are 7 foot high with narrow passages to thread your way back to street normality.

    What really struck me about the exhibition was how completely random the Holocaust was - pictures of ordinary families in the 1920s going about their business, and footnotes that, say, 11 of the 13 people in the picture had been killed. It's like these cases you read about where a madman shoots a dozen random passers-by, escalated to nearly the whole continent.

    I know it's all been said before, but the museum is worthwhile for quietly bringing it home.

    If you have time visit the "Topography of Terror" near Checkpoint Charlie. It is an excellent museum of how the Nazis gradually established control of Berlin, with many political murders of Communists, Socialists, Trade Unionists etc in the 1930s. All an essential prelude to establishing the state that would attempt to kill so many others. Of great interest to anyone interested in politics, and how demogogues slide the boundary of what is acceptable until horror becomes mundane.

    Berlin is a fascinating and beautiful city. Hard to believe the horrors that lie buried.

    Great place, Berlin. Hotel Adlon, Cafe Adler, the Brecht Restaurant, the site of the Fuhrerbunker (not on any map!), the site of Stuffenberg's last stand on 20th July. Checkpoint Charlie Museum. A day trip out to Potsdam. Bits of the Wall were still there when I was there.

    Didn't notice a 'Holocaust' Museum. In my 767-page Encyclopedia of World War Two (Secker & Warburg, 1978) there's no mention of a 'Holocaust' in any case.

    Odd that...
  • Options
    dodradedodrade Posts: 595
    HYUFD said:

    LondonBob said:

    HYUFD said:

    JackW said:

    National - YouGov/Economist

    Trump 53 .. Cruz 25 .. Kasich 18
    Clinton 49 .. Sanders 41

    https://today.yougov.com/news/2016/04/13/tale-two-conventions/

    So Trump now 10% higher than Cruz and Kasich combined, while Hillary less than 10% ahead of Sanders
    http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-national-democratic-primary

    Will we see crossover by the time HRC wins though? Should just about at this rate.
    Any particular reason for the Trump recovery?
  • Options
    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    RodCrosby said:

    FPT

    O/T: In Berlin (oddly for the first time) for a conference and afterwards went for a few hours round the centre. Really overwhelming history, with dozens of towering buildings, plaques and artistic displays commemorating massive events - the Brandenburg Gate, the Reichstag, Kennedy's speech, the Soviet war memorial... I went round the Holocaust museum, which is very well done - as you go in, you see a lot of anonymous concrete blocks, like forgotten tombs - then it takes you through the awful story, with commentaries and notes from survivors and the lost, and then you emerge, and at the exit the concrete blocks are 7 foot high with narrow passages to thread your way back to street normality.

    What really struck me about the exhibition was how completely random the Holocaust was - pictures of ordinary families in the 1920s going about their business, and footnotes that, say, 11 of the 13 people in the picture had been killed. It's like these cases you read about where a madman shoots a dozen random passers-by, escalated to nearly the whole continent.

    I know it's all been said before, but the museum is worthwhile for quietly bringing it home.

    If you have time visit the "Topography of Terror" near Checkpoint Charlie. It is an excellent museum of how the Nazis gradually established control of Berlin, with many political murders of Communists, Socialists, Trade Unionists etc in the 1930s. All an essential prelude to establishing the state that would attempt to kill so many others. Of great interest to anyone interested in politics, and how demogogues slide the boundary of what is acceptable until horror becomes mundane.

    Berlin is a fascinating and beautiful city. Hard to believe the horrors that lie buried.

    Great place, Berlin. Hotel Adlon, Cafe Adler, the Brecht Restaurant, the site of the Fuhrerbunker (not on any map!), the site of Stuffenberg's last stand on 20th July. Checkpoint Charlie Museum. A day trip out to Potsdam. Bits of the Wall were still there when I was there.

    Didn't notice a 'Holocaust' Museum. In my 767-page Encyclopedia of World War Two (Secker & Warburg, 1978) there's no mention of a 'Holocaust' in any case.

    Odd that...
    Let me guess: it didn't happen in Liverpool so it didn't happen at all, right?
  • Options
    tysontyson Posts: 6,049
    So what would you say to my Uncle who lost his mother, three sisters, grandparents, and two aunties who all suddenly disappeared at Aushwitz. Carless I guess.
    RodCrosby said:

    FPT

    O/T: In Berlin (oddly for the first time) for a conference and afterwards went for a few hours round the centre. Really overwhelming history, with dozens of towering buildings, plaques and artistic displays commemorating massive events - the Brandenburg Gate, the Reichstag, Kennedy's speech, the Soviet war memorial... I went round the Holocaust museum, which is very well done - as you go in, you see a lot of anonymous concrete blocks, like forgotten tombs - then it takes you through the awful story, with commentaries and notes from survivors and the lost, and then you emerge, and at the exit the concrete blocks are 7 foot high with narrow passages to thread your way back to street normality.

    What really struck me about the exhibition was how completely random the Holocaust was - pictures of ordinary families in the 1920s going about their business, and footnotes that, say, 11 of the 13 people in the picture had been killed. It's like these cases you read about where a madman shoots a dozen random passers-by, escalated to nearly the whole continent.

    I know it's all been said before, but the museum is worthwhile for quietly bringing it home.

    If you have time visit the "Topography of Terror" near Checkpoint Charlie. It is an excellent museum of how the Nazis gradually established control of Berlin, with many political murders of Communists, Socialists, Trade Unionists etc in the 1930s. All an essential prelude to establishing the state that would attempt to kill so many others. Of great interest to anyone interested in politics, and how demogogues slide the boundary of what is acceptable until horror becomes mundane.

    Berlin is a fascinating and beautiful city. Hard to believe the horrors that lie buried.

    Great place, Berlin. Hotel Adlon, Cafe Adler, the Brecht Restaurant, the site of the Fuhrerbunker (not on any map!), the site of Stuffenberg's last stand on 20th July. Checkpoint Charlie Museum. A day trip out to Potsdam. Bits of the Wall were still there when I was there.

    Didn't notice a 'Holocaust' Museum. In my 767-page Encyclopedia of World War Two (Secker & Warburg, 1978) there's no mention of a 'Holocaust' in any case.

    Odd that...
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737

    RodCrosby said:

    FPT

    O/T: In Berlin (oddly for the first time) for a conference and afterwards went for a few hours round the centre. Really overwhelming history, with dozens of towering buildings, plaques and artistic displays commemorating massive events - the Brandenburg Gate, the Reichstag, Kennedy's speech, the Soviet war memorial... I went round the Holocaust museum, which is very well done - as you go in, you see a lot of anonymous concrete blocks, like forgotten tombs - then it takes you through the awful story, with commentaries and notes from survivors and the lost, and then you emerge, and at the exit the concrete blocks are 7 foot high with narrow passages to thread your way back to street normality.

    What really struck me about the exhibition was how completely random the Holocaust was - pictures of ordinary families in the 1920s going about their business, and footnotes that, say, 11 of the 13 people in the picture had been killed. It's like these cases you read about where a madman shoots a dozen random passers-by, escalated to nearly the whole continent.

    I know it's all been said before, but the museum is worthwhile for quietly bringing it home.

    If you have time visit the "Topography of Terror" near Checkpoint Charlie. It is an excellent museum of how the Nazis gradually established control of Berlin, with many political murders of Communists, Socialists, Trade Unionists etc in the 1930s. All an essential prelude to establishing the state that would attempt to kill so many others. Of great interest to anyone interested in politics, and how demogogues slide the boundary of what is acceptable until horror becomes mundane.

    Berlin is a fascinating and beautiful city. Hard to believe the horrors that lie buried.

    Great place, Berlin. Hotel Adlon, Cafe Adler, the Brecht Restaurant, the site of the Fuhrerbunker (not on any map!), the site of Stuffenberg's last stand on 20th July. Checkpoint Charlie Museum. A day trip out to Potsdam. Bits of the Wall were still there when I was there.

    Didn't notice a 'Holocaust' Museum. In my 767-page Encyclopedia of World War Two (Secker & Warburg, 1978) there's no mention of a 'Holocaust' in any case.

    Odd that...
    Let me guess: it didn't happen in Liverpool so it didn't happen at all, right?
    It's a neologism, relentlessly battered into people's skulls by the likes of Janner from the late seventies onwards. I prefer facts to propaganda.

    On the topic of Liverpool, smart-alec, some of them actually claim the alien Jews who where interned by this country in the camp on its outskirts, were "Holocaust victims." Go figure...
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2016
    Barcelona out of Champions League.
  • Options
    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited April 2016
    Interesting show, especially the Paul Ryan discussion.

    I laid off around half of my Ryan POTUS position at between 40-100

    I'm not tempted to lay the rest off at current odds.

    Anyway, given the remaining primaries seem quite predicable (and are priced into the market) now, I've greened out for just-about five figures on Hillary/Sanders/Trump/Cruz/Kasich, with a mid 5 figure payout on all the possible GOP non-runners and low six figures on Paul Ryan. I'm pretty pleased with that and I'm calling it a day.

    FWIW, IMO, the GOP odds should be something like; (betfair in brackets)

    Trump 60% (50%)
    Cruz 30% (33%)
    Kasich 4% (7.5%)
    Ryan 2% (0.7%)
    Other 4%

    And POTUS;

    Hillary 75% (66%)
    Sanders 2.5% (6%)
    Biden 0.5% (1%)
    Trump 10% (12.5%)
    Cruz 7% (7%)
    Kasich 2% (2.5%)
    Ryan 1% (0.5%)
    Other 2%

    If there is value in the current odds it's probably in laying POTUS sanders and/or backing POTUS hillary.

    I'm not playing though, I've cashed out. Good luck to those who continue to bet on this crazy game.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited April 2016
    @ tyson

    If you want to invest offshore there are plenty of UK funds that will do it. My Hargreaves - Lansdowne ISA lists plenty, and it is possible to buy individual foreign shares too on some exchanges. There must be other reasons for people to move money offshore.

    Personally I like to choose my own shares so that I can avoid unethical companies rather than go with Trusts. It also reduces the amount paid in charges, but each to their own.
  • Options
    tysontyson Posts: 6,049
    I'll have to remind my Uncle the next time I see him that his memories have been clouded by 70's propaganda.

    This is his testimony about the war- he is obviously a serial fantasist. I'll let him know next time I see him

    https://soundcloud.com/parko58/edited-interview-with-jan

    RodCrosby said:

    RodCrosby said:

    FPT

    O/T: In Berlin (oddly for the first time) for a

    Great place, Berlin. Hotel Adlon, Cafe Adler, the Brecht Restaurant, the site of the Fuhrerbunker (not on any map!), the site of Stuffenberg's last stand on 20th July. Checkpoint Charlie Museum. A day trip out to Potsdam. Bits of the Wall were still there when I was there.

    Didn't notice a 'Holocaust' Museum. In my 767-page Encyclopedia of World War Two (Secker & Warburg, 1978) there's no mention of a 'Holocaust' in any case.

    Odd that...
    Let me guess: it didn't happen in Liverpool so it didn't happen at all, right?
    It's a neologism, relentlessly battered into people's skulls by the likes of Janner from the late seventies onwards. I prefer facts to propaganda.

    On the topic of Liverpool, smart-alec, some of them actually claim the alien Jews who where interned by this country in the camp on its outskirts, were "Holocaust victims." Go figure...
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    tyson said:

    So what would you say to my Uncle who lost his mother, three sisters, grandparents, and two aunties who all suddenly disappeared at Aushwitz. Carless I guess.

    RodCrosby said:

    FPT

    O/T: In Berlin (oddly for the first time) for a conference and afterwards went for a few hours round the centre. Really overwhelming history, with dozens of towering buildings, plaques and artistic displays commemorating massive events - the Brandenburg Gate, the Reichstag, Kennedy's speech, the Soviet war memorial... I went round the Holocaust museum, which is very well done - as you go in, you see a lot of anonymous concrete blocks, like forgotten tombs - then it takes you through the awful story, with commentaries and notes from survivors and the lost, and then you emerge, and at the exit the concrete blocks are 7 foot high with narrow passages to thread your way back to street normality.

    What really struck me about the exhibition was how completely random the Holocaust was - pictures of ordinary families in the 1920s going about their business, and footnotes that, say, 11 of the 13 people in the picture had been killed. It's like these cases you read about where a madman shoots a dozen random passers-by, escalated to nearly the whole continent.

    I know it's all been said before, but the museum is worthwhile for quietly bringing it home.

    If you have time visit the "Topography of Terror" near Checkpoint Charlie. It is an excellent museum of how the Nazis gradually established control of Berlin, with many political murders of Communists, Socialists, Trade Unionists etc in the 1930s. All an essential prelude to establishing the state that would attempt to kill so many others. Of great interest to anyone interested in politics, and how demogogues slide the boundary of what is acceptable until horror becomes mundane.

    Berlin is a fascinating and beautiful city. Hard to believe the horrors that lie buried.

    Great place, Berlin. Hotel Adlon, Cafe Adler, the Brecht Restaurant, the site of the Fuhrerbunker (not on any map!), the site of Stuffenberg's last stand on 20th July. Checkpoint Charlie Museum. A day trip out to Potsdam. Bits of the Wall were still there when I was there.

    Didn't notice a 'Holocaust' Museum. In my 767-page Encyclopedia of World War Two (Secker & Warburg, 1978) there's no mention of a 'Holocaust' in any case.

    Odd that...
    Well, without being facetious, I would say "Keep Looking!" Plenty of people who lost touch with relatives during the war, including Auschwitz - thinking they were dead - were re-united decades later, although obviously the grand-parents, etc would be long dead. People do die, of natural causes, wherever they happen to be...
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    RodCrosby said:

    tyson said:

    So what would you say to my Uncle who lost his mother, three sisters, grandparents, and two aunties who all suddenly disappeared at Aushwitz. Carless I guess.

    RodCrosby said:

    FPT

    O/T: In Berlin (oddly for the first time) for a conference and afterwards went for a few hours round the centre. Really overwhelming history, with dozens of towering buildings, plaques and artistic displays commemorating massive events - the Brandenburg Gate, the Reichstag, Kennedy's speech, the Soviet war memorial... I went round the Holocaust museum, which is very well done - as you go in, you see a lot of anonymous concrete blocks, like forgotten tombs - then it takes you through the awful story, with commentaries and notes from survivors and the lost, and then you emerge, and at the exit the concrete blocks are 7 foot high with narrow passages to thread your way back to street normality.

    I know it's all been said before, but the museum is worthwhile for quietly bringing it home.

    If you have time visit the "Topography of Terror" near Checkpoint Charlie. It is an excellent museum of how the Nazis gradually established control of Berlin, with many political murders of Communists, Socialists, Trade Unionists etc in the 1930s. All an essential prelude to establishing the state that would attempt to kill so many others. Of great interest to anyone interested in politics, and how demogogues slide the boundary of what is acceptable until horror becomes mundane.

    Berlin is a fascinating and beautiful city. Hard to believe the horrors that lie buried.

    Great place, Berlin. Hotel Adlon, Cafe Adler, the Brecht Restaurant, the site of the Fuhrerbunker (not on any map!), the site of Stuffenberg's last stand on 20th July. Checkpoint Charlie Museum. A day trip out to Potsdam. Bits of the Wall were still there when I was there.

    Didn't notice a 'Holocaust' Museum. In my 767-page Encyclopedia of World War Two (Secker & Warburg, 1978) there's no mention of a 'Holocaust' in any case.

    Odd that...
    Well, without being facetious, I would say "Keep Looking!" Plenty of people who lost touch with relatives during the war, including Auschwitz - thinking they were dead - were re-united decades later, although obviously the grand-parents, etc would be long dead. People do die, of natural causes, wherever they happen to be...
    People also died in vast numbers of unnatural causes in WW2.

    Eastern and Central Europe are full of ghosts.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    RodCrosby said:


    Well, without being facetious, I would say "Keep Looking!" Plenty of people who lost touch with relatives during the war, including Auschwitz - thinking they were dead - were re-united decades later, although obviously the grand-parents, etc would be long dead. People do die, of natural causes, wherever they happen to be...

    Oh, I thought you were just playing some kind of weird semiotic game about when the term Holocaust was coined. . .
  • Options
    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    RodCrosby said:

    tyson said:

    So what would you say to my Uncle who lost his mother, three sisters, grandparents, and two aunties who all suddenly disappeared at Aushwitz. Carless I guess.

    RodCrosby said:

    FPT

    O/T: In Berlin (oddly for the first time) for a conference and afterwards went for a few hours round the centre. Really overwhelming history, with dozens of towering buildings, plaques and artistic displays commemorating massive events - the Brandenburg Gate, the Reichstag, Kennedy's speech, the Soviet war memorial... I went round the Holocaust museum, which is very well done - as you go in, you see a lot of anonymous concrete blocks, like forgotten tombs - then it takes you through the awful story, with commentaries and notes from survivors and the lost, and then you emerge, and at the exit the concrete blocks are 7 foot high with narrow passages to thread your way back to street normality.

    What really struck me about the exhibition was how completely random the Holocaust was - pictures of ordinary families in the 1920s going about their business, and footnotes that, say, 11 of the 13 people in the picture had been killed. It's like these cases you read about where a madman shoots a dozen random passers-by, escalated to nearly the whole continent.

    I know it's all been said before, but the museum is worthwhile for quietly bringing it home.

    If you have time visit the "Topography of Terror" near Checkpoint Charlie. It is an excellent museum of how the Nazis gradually established control of Berlin, with many political murders of Communists, Socialists, Trade Unionists etc in the 1930s. All an essential prelude to establishing the state that would attempt to kill so many others. Of great interest to anyone interested in politics, and how demogogues slide the boundary of what is acceptable until horror becomes mundane.

    Berlin is a fascinating and beautiful city. Hard to believe the horrors that lie buried.

    Great place, Berlin. Hotel Adlon, Cafe Adler, the Brecht Restaurant, the site of the Fuhrerbunker (not on any map!), the site of Stuffenberg's last stand on 20th July. Checkpoint Charlie Museum. A day trip out to Potsdam. Bits of the Wall were still there when I was there.

    Didn't notice a 'Holocaust' Museum. In my 767-page Encyclopedia of World War Two (Secker & Warburg, 1978) there's no mention of a 'Holocaust' in any case.

    Odd that...
    Well, without being facetious, I would say "Keep Looking!" Plenty of people who lost touch with relatives during the war, including Auschwitz - thinking they were dead - were re-united decades later, although obviously the grand-parents, etc would be long dead. People do die, of natural causes, wherever they happen to be...
    Please stop it Rod
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    FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    SeanT said:

    FPT

    O/T: In Berlin (oddly for the first time) for a conference and afterwards went for a few hours round the centre. Really overwhelming history, with dozens of towering buildings, plaques and artistic displays commemorating massive events - the Brandenburg Gate, the Reichstag, Kennedy's speech, the Soviet war memorial... I went round the Holocaust museum, which is very well done - as you go in, you see a lot of anonymous concrete blocks, like forgotten tombs - then it takes you through the awful story, with commentaries and notes from survivors and the lost, and then you emerge, and at the exit the concrete blocks are 7 foot high with narrow passages to thread your way back to street normality.

    What really struck me about the exhibition was how completely random the Holocaust was - pictures of ordinary families in the 1920s going about their business, and footnotes that, say, 11 of the 13 people in the picture had been killed. It's like these cases you read about where a madman shoots a dozen random passers-by, escalated to nearly the whole continent.

    I know it's all been said before, but the museum is worthwhile for quietly bringing it home.

    If you have time visit the excellent "Topography of Terror" near Checkpoint Charlie. It is an excellent museum of how the Nazis gradually established control of Berlin, with many political murders of Communists, Socialists, Trade Unionists etc in the 1930s. All an essential prelude to establishing the state that would attempt to kill so many others. Of great interest to anyone interested in politics, and how demogogues slide the boundary of what is acceptable until horror becomes mumdane.

    Berlin is a fascinating and beautiful city. Hard to believe the horrors that lie buried.

    What I loved about Berlin is the holes. The shrapnel scars and bomb wounds, visible in almost every building pre 1945. You can see these in London, from the Blitz and the V1 campaign, and I love spotting them (Bloomsbury is good for this) but Berlin has millions of these war-wounds.

    On my first visit there I took Antony Beevor's extraordinary BERLIN, with me, to read, and I wandered around even as I stopped off in cafes and cars to rip through his compelling Gotterdammerung prose. It was like reading Tolkien on a walking tour of Mordor with Bilbo Baggins.
    My best butty, who has drug-partied all over Europe, said the nightclubs in Berlin are absolutely bonkers. Stomp-dancing vikings, sweating headbanging pill head lesbians snogging at the bar, blokes dressed in full sexy lingerie, skinheads doing hippy, trippy Haight Ashbury finger dancing, the lot.

    He said he was off his tree for three full days and saw none of the historic sights.
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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    No more discussion on holocaust denial - you know the rules Rod

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    dodradedodrade Posts: 595

    Barcelona out of Champions League.

    Eamon Dunphy on RTE has blamed it on the Panama Papers effecting Messi's form!
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Fenster said:

    SeanT said:

    FPT

    O/T: In Berlin (oddly for the first time) for a conference and afterwards went for a few hours round the centre. Really overwhelming history, with dozens of towering buildings, plaques and artistic displays commemorating massive events - the Brandenburg Gate, the Reichstag, Kennedy's speech, the Soviet war memorial... I went round the Holocaust museum, which is very well done - as you go in, you see a lot of anonymous concrete blocks, like forgotten tombs - then it takes you through the awful story, with commentaries and notes from survivors and the lost, and then you emerge, and at the exit the concrete blocks are 7 foot high with narrow passages to thread your way back to street normality.

    What really struck me about the exhibition was how completely random the Holocaust was - pictures of ordinary families in the 1920s going about their business, and footnotes that, say, 11 of the 13 people in the picture had been killed. It's like these cases you read about where a madman shoots a dozen random passers-by, escalated to nearly the whole continent.

    I know it's all been said before, but the museum is worthwhile for quietly bringing it home.

    If you have time visit the excellent "Topography of

    Berlin is a fascinating and beautiful city. Hard to believe the horrors that lie buried.

    What I loved about Berlin is the holes. The shrapnel scars and bomb wounds, visible in almost every building pre 1945. You can see these in London, from the Blitz and the V1 campaign, and I love spotting them (Bloomsbury is good for this) but Berlin has millions of these war-wounds.

    On my first visit there I took Antony Beevor's extraordinary BERLIN, with me, to read, and I wandered around even as I stopped off in cafes and cars to rip through his compelling Gotterdammerung prose. It was like reading Tolkien on a walking tour of Mordor with Bilbo Baggins.
    My best butty, who has drug-partied all over Europe, said the nightclubs in Berlin are absolutely bonkers. Stomp-dancing vikings, sweating headbanging pill head lesbians snogging at the bar, blokes dressed in full sexy lingerie, skinheads doing hippy, trippy Haight Ashbury finger dancing, the lot.

    He said he was off his tree for three full days and saw none of the historic sights.
    Not my scene, but I can believe it.

    Berlin is a weird and wonderful place. You can take the S bahn to Wannsee and be on a delightful city beach, looking at the house where the extermination of European Jewry was planned.
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,822
    Evening all :)

    If you go into the Inner Courtyard of Surrey County Council's HQ in Kingston, you can see the holes in the brickwork where the building was hit by a V1 in 1944.

    My father told me that was the most terrifying time of his life - he had come back to London with my grandparents in 1943. It was the sheer randomness of the V1 and V2 strikes. He told me there was some warning of the V1 when the rocket engine stopped but with the V2 there was no warning at all.

    Elmers End bus garage was hit by a V1 on 18th July 1944 when a V1 flew in through the open doors killing 16 staff. The garage was closed in 1986 and is now a housing estate with no sign of what it was - the memorial with the names of the dead bus drivers and crew was also taken away which was sad.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,287
    @FrancisUrquhart Olive oil?
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    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    If you go into the Inner Courtyard of Surrey County Council's HQ in Kingston, you can see the holes in the brickwork where the building was hit by a V1 in 1944.

    My father told me that was the most terrifying time of his life - he had come back to London with my grandparents in 1943. It was the sheer randomness of the V1 and V2 strikes. He told me there was some warning of the V1 when the rocket engine stopped but with the V2 there was no warning at all.

    Elmers End bus garage was hit by a V1 on 18th July 1944 when a V1 flew in through the open doors killing 16 staff. The garage was closed in 1986 and is now a housing estate with no sign of what it was - the memorial with the names of the dead bus drivers and crew was also taken away which was sad.

    One of the walls on my house has a chunk missing from it due to being struck by a doodlebug. I completely forgot about it until you mentioned Surrey Council's HQ being struck by one.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2016
    The story of Jezza and his tax return AGAIN....

    Jeremy Corbyn failed to declare a third pension on his HMRC tax form, it has emerged, as he refused to disclose documents regarding his full tax declaration last night.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/13/jeremy-corbyn-failed-to-declare-third-pension-on-tax-return/
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Some of the glass in the windows of my flat is blown, distorted so I'm told by bomb damage in the Second World War.
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    Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    edited April 2016
    As if his job isn't a difficult enough at the moment Sajid Javid is named in the latest issue of IS' English language magazine as the kind of person IS supporters should kill.

    He joins high profile Muslim Muhammad Abdul Bari, Baroness Warsi, private sector big shot and appointed diversity worthy Waqar Azmi, and the Lib Dems Ajmal Masroor.

    If that wasn't an exciting enough read there is an article slagging off the UK & US for their policy on hostages, i.e. not paying up when nice European countries do pay up.
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    Uh oh, The Guardian are leading with Angus Robertson's stats

    https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/720358037005930496
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    FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    @Foxinsoxuk

    I'd love to visit one day. Like SeanT I read Beevor's Berlin with a horrified fascination. It's a book that leaves you despising the SS and NKVD but admiring the incredible selfless bravery of the common soldier, particularly the Wermacht soldiers who, starved and exhausted, fought to the death to save the trapped civilians in Berlin (the Wenck story, where he sent his troops back into Berlin in an act of suicidal sacrifice, is quite remarkable). What people suffer in war is hard to compute; justI unimaginable.

    My wife is going to Limoges (sp?) in France in a few weeks. She's staying near a village where the SS massacred the population for apparently no reason, gunning down women and kids without mercy. The village is left in situ in memoriam to that day and she's going to visit it.

    I was less squeamish once and devoured books like Hitler's Willing Executioners and The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich without so much as a twitch of a muscle, but since having children I find it hard to stomach the evil, grisly reality - so visits like that are currently off the menu for me. Watching my two young innocent children living such charmed, comfy lives is hard to equate with what the European kids of the 1940s witnessed. It's nuts. Frighteningly nuts.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274

    Uh oh, The Guardian are leading with Angus Robertson's stats

    https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/720358037005930496

    Are the Guardian repeating the bullshit infographic nonsense?
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited April 2016
    With those figures I would say the Locals look better for Labour everyday.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    Uh oh, The Guardian are leading with Angus Robertson's stats

    https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/720358037005930496

    Fitting that the Loch Ness monster is to be found along with a Labour lead under Corbyn.
    Both are remarkable, very unlikely, but they happened.
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    tysontyson Posts: 6,049
    Fox- you are making my point for me. I know there are plenty of funds that invest overseas- that are UK based. I invest in obscure mineral companies, emerging economies and whatnot through some obscure UK funds- but these are UK funds. That is exactly my point- there are so many funds out there you can invest in- but these are all home based. My portfolio is actually very diverse. So why do you need to invest in an offshore based fund.

    Also, whenever you invest in an individual shares, you are doing this as a UK resident I guess. If you want to invest in an overseas company on their stock market, you will have to comply to their residency requirements.

    So why, when you can invest in UK based funds with overseas interests, would you want to invest directly in an overseas fund which probably costs more and has worse returns?

    @ tyson

    If you want to invest offshore there are plenty of UK funds that will do it. My Hargreaves - Lansdowne ISA lists plenty, and it is possible to buy individual foreign shares too on some exchanges. There must be other reasons for people to move money offshore.

    Personally I like to choose my own shares so that I can avoid unethical companies rather than go with Trusts. It also reduces the amount paid in charges, but each to their own.

  • Options
    Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,597
    News from a ward in the only parliamentary seat that the Conservatives managed to lose to Labour in the whole of the Midlands in 2015:

    http://www.expressandstar.com/news/local-news/2016/04/11/two-tories-standing-for-same-wolverhampton-ward-in-may-council-election/

    Both will appear on the ballot paper as "The Conservative Party Candidate", in a ward where electors have a single vote.

    Can anyone top this for a 2016 local election cock-up?
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    TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited April 2016
    REMAIN have lost what once was said to be their Unique Selling Point Cameron.

    To help REMAIN and help the Conservative party, Cameron just has to STFU about the EU.

    What Roger's friends would call the truth behind the offering.
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/720358522253361152

    " The prime minister's hopes of keeping Britain in the EU appear now to rest in the hands of Jeremy Corbyn "

    Enough said.
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    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    Cameron has made a very bad misjudgement on the EU
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Uh oh, The Guardian are leading with Angus Robertson's stats

    https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/720358037005930496

    They generously reinterpret Angus Robinson to be specifically talking about the Affluent Compliance unit which you could do if you reordered his sentences and squint a bit.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited April 2016

    The story of Jezza and his tax return AGAIN....

    Jeremy Corbyn failed to declare a third pension on his HMRC tax form, it has emerged, as he refused to disclose documents regarding his full tax declaration last night.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/13/jeremy-corbyn-failed-to-declare-third-pension-on-tax-return/

    From the in short section of that article Jezza paid 18 912 in tax (an overall rate of 27%) on £70 795. On the back of an envelope this works out at :

    0% of £10 000
    20% of £32 000
    40% of £30 000

    Roughly £18000

    If there was indeed tax deducted at source in the various pensions then the figures do not add up as a higher proportion would be at the 40% rate and the tax bill on his HoC return significantly higher.

    I smell a rat.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,902
    runnymede said:

    Cameron has made a very bad misjudgement on the EU

    He's only got himself to blame, his renegotiation was utterly shit.
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,822
    I find myself still completely undecided on the EU Referendum even though the Party I support and of which I am a Member is strongly for REMAIN.

    Once you get past the hysteria and the scaremongering from both sides, I'm troubled by the thought it doesn't really matter all that much whether we are formally inside or outside the EU. I believe it was WSC who opined about towing the British Isles into the Atlantic and we cannot avoid Europe geographically though I recognise the political, cultural, social and economic differences and continuing divergence.

    The problem we have with the EU stems from the fact we aren't really European at all. That doesn'tmean we can't co-operate with Europe and the Single Market works well for us.but the aforementioned political, social and cultural differences mean we will always jar with Europe because our attitudes and mores aren't European.

    I've no doubt that were we to vote LEAVE, everyone would seek to make the divorce as amicable as possible and equally if we vote to REMAIN, no one is suggesting we will use the Euro on June 24th.

    Europe and Britain will continue to have to learn to live with each other whether we are in the EU or not and it will be in everyone's interests to make it work. That's why I think it makes no or very little differnece how we vote on June 23rd outside the machinations of the Conservative Party about which, as I'm not a Conservative, I don;t care very much.

    I will vote, though, of that I am certain.
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737

    RodCrosby said:

    tyson said:

    So what would you say to my Uncle who lost his mother, three sisters, grandparents, and two aunties who all suddenly disappeared at Aushwitz. Carless I guess.

    RodCrosby said:

    FPT

    O/T: In Berlin (oddly for the first time) for a conference and afterwards went for a few hours round the centre. Really overwhelming history, with dozens of towering buildings, plaques and artistic displays commemorating massive events - the Brandenburg Gate, the Reichstag, Kennedy's speech, the Soviet war memorial... I went round the Holocaust museum, which is very well done - as you go in, you see a lot of anonymous concrete blocks, like forgotten tombs - then it takes you through the awful story, with commentaries and notes from survivors and the lost, and then you emerge, and at the exit the concrete blocks are 7 foot high with narrow passages to thread your way back to street normality.

    I know it's all been said before, but the museum is worthwhile for quietly bringing it home.

    If you have time visit the "Topography of Terror" near Checkpoint Charlie. It is an excellent museum of how the Nazis gradually established control of Berlin, with many political murders of Communists, Socialists, Trade Unionists etc in the 1930s. All an essential prelude to establishing the state that would attempt to kill so many others. Of great interest to anyone interested in politics, and how demogogues slide the boundary of what is acceptable until horror becomes mundane.

    Berlin is a fascinating and beautiful city. Hard to believe the horrors that lie buried.

    Great place, Berlin. Hotel Adlon, Cafe Adler, the Brecht Restaurant, the site of the Fuhrerbunker (not on any map!), the site of Stuffenberg's last stand on 20th July. Checkpoint Charlie Museum. A day trip out to Potsdam. Bits of the Wall were still there when I was there.

    Didn't notice a 'Holocaust' Museum. In my 767-page Encyclopedia of World War Two (Secker & Warburg, 1978) there's no mention of a 'Holocaust' in any case.

    Odd that...
    Well, without being facetious, I would say "Keep Looking!" Plenty of people who lost touch with relatives during the war, including Auschwitz - thinking they were dead - were re-united decades later, although obviously the grand-parents, etc would be long dead. People do die, of natural causes, wherever they happen to be...
    People also died in vast numbers of unnatural causes in WW2.

    Eastern and Central Europe are full of ghosts.
    It's the nature of War, especially total war.

    We should try and remember never to go there again.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited April 2016
    :smiley:
    Speedy said:

    htps://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/720358522253361152

    " The prime minister's hopes of keeping Britain in the EU appear now to rest in the hands of Jeremy Corbyn "

    Enough said.

This discussion has been closed.