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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The referendum is currently much more about the economy tha

SystemSystem Posts: 11,020
edited April 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The referendum is currently much more about the economy than immigration

Today’s been a huge one in the build up to June 23rd. The Treasury statement announced by Osborne this morning has met with a furious reaction from the LEAVE and looking at the above polling you can see why.

Read the full story here


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    We might win this one ... #coys
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,419
    edited April 2016
    Who could have predicted the economy would be more important than immigration in the EURef?

    Oh wait, I did
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    tim was right = just the wrong season...
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I look forward to the lengthy explanations from all those posters who kept telling me that immigration and the EU were one and the same in the public's mind.
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    One of my Leaver friends is upset this is appearing as a promoted tweet in his feed

    https://twitter.com/StrongerIn/status/722110918906261504
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,727
    I'm in the 8%.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926

    I look forward to the lengthy explanations from all those posters who kept telling me that immigration and the EU were one and the same in the public's mind.

    There;'s generally correlation in the ICM issues index. Schools and hospitals are by far the highest though..
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    We might win this one ... #coys

    Just think, you might need to be a Chelsea fan on the last day of the season
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,417
    edited April 2016

    One of my Leaver friends is upset this is appearing as a promoted tweet in his feed

    https://twitter.com/StrongerIn/status/722110918906261504

    Upsetting but very effective. It was a stupid thing to say and no mistake, and Remain are well advised in capitalising upon it. No point in denial or equivocation, just be on the attack at the next opportunity.
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    LayneLayne Posts: 163

    One of my Leaver friends is upset this is appearing as a promoted tweet in his feed

    https://twitter.com/StrongerIn/status/722110918906261504

    Another lie. The leave campaign is Vote Leave. The traitors selling us out to the EU are willing to stoop to any depth.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,609
    kle4 said:

    I'm in the 8%.

    Likewise. I'm in the 'democracy / sovereignty' sub-set.
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Layne said:

    One of my Leaver friends is upset this is appearing as a promoted tweet in his feed

    https://twitter.com/StrongerIn/status/722110918906261504

    Another lie. The leave campaign is Vote Leave. The traitors selling us out to the EU are willing to stoop to any depth.
    It seems mr eagles in that club.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,328
    @ TSE - so it's Arron Banks versus Osborne.

    Can they both lose?
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    One of my Leaver friends is upset this is appearing as a promoted tweet in his feed

    https://twitter.com/StrongerIn/status/722110918906261504

    Upsetting but very effective. It was a stupid thing to say and no mistake, and Remain are well advised in capitalising it. No point in denial or equivocation, just be on the attack at the next opportunity.
    I'm surprised Leave haven't made more of Sir Stuart Rose's gaffe a few weeks earlier.

    I'd have been hammering that message every day
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190

    I look forward to the lengthy explanations from all those posters who kept telling me that immigration and the EU were one and the same in the public's mind.

    They are not. That is why it would be foolish for the Tories to interpret a vote to Remain in the EU as a endorsement of the current levels of immigration.
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    LayneLayne Posts: 163
    The £4,300 number has already been shown to be a complete sham in less than 12 hours. It is just another three million jobs. Except this one is owned by George Osborne and Stephen Crabb rather than Nick Clegg.
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    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,150
    edited April 2016
    Vanilla not working. Hasn't noticed the new thread.
    update: fixed
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    Layne said:

    One of my Leaver friends is upset this is appearing as a promoted tweet in his feed

    https://twitter.com/StrongerIn/status/722110918906261504

    Another lie. The leave campaign is Vote Leave. The traitors selling us out to the EU are willing to stoop to any depth.
    It seems mr eagles in that club.
    Yup, you got me.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,727
    edited April 2016
    Layne said:

    One of my Leaver friends is upset this is appearing as a promoted tweet in his feed

    https://twitter.com/StrongerIn/status/722110918906261504

    Another lie. The leave campaign is Vote Leave. The traitors selling us out to the EU are willing to stoop to any depth.
    They may be willing to stoop to any depth, but in terms of scandalous political tactics, equating a Leave campaign with the Leave campaign, that is to say the official one, is not much to write home about, particularly if the former did say that.

    I may be a Leaver, but I'm quite sure if it has not already happened, someone who supports Remaining will say something really stupid, and it will be reacted to as though the PM said it personally, or at the least attributed to the 'Remain campaign', even if they are not a spokesperson for BSE, so I struggle to get worked up over such standard political fare, because I know my side will do the same, even though we have what I consider the more compelling arguments
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,328
    No CAP - lower food prices
    Stuart Rose - higher wages
    EU contributions - reduced, more money for NHS
    Our own regulations and trade deals - more trade and growth
    Lower immigration - more affordable housing for all

    There you go.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Anecdote.

    "Vote Leave" works much better as a call to action in the high street. The guy handing out leaflets calling out "Britain stronger in Europe" seemed to trip over the words which had limited impact.

    Street politics doesn't matter, but vote leave is catchier.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,328

    One of my Leaver friends is upset this is appearing as a promoted tweet in his feed

    https://twitter.com/StrongerIn/status/722110918906261504

    Upsetting but very effective. It was a stupid thing to say and no mistake, and Remain are well advised in capitalising it. No point in denial or equivocation, just be on the attack at the next opportunity.
    I'm surprised Leave haven't made more of Sir Stuart Rose's gaffe a few weeks earlier.

    I'd have been hammering that message every day
    I've been hammering away saying they should be hammering away at that too.
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    nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    Layne said:

    One of my Leaver friends is upset this is appearing as a promoted tweet in his feed

    https://twitter.com/StrongerIn/status/722110918906261504

    Another lie. The leave campaign is Vote Leave. The traitors selling us out to the EU are willing to stoop to any depth.
    It seems mr eagles in that club.
    Yup, you got me.
    Bit like Sam did.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,417

    One of my Leaver friends is upset this is appearing as a promoted tweet in his feed

    https://twitter.com/StrongerIn/status/722110918906261504

    Upsetting but very effective. It was a stupid thing to say and no mistake, and Remain are well advised in capitalising it. No point in denial or equivocation, just be on the attack at the next opportunity.
    I'm surprised Leave haven't made more of Sir Stuart Rose's gaffe a few weeks earlier.

    I'd have been hammering that message every day
    I'll be honest, Vote Leave at present strike me as a bit cerebral and rather lacking in campaigning nouse. But in the end I think we all know this is more of a battle of bigger forces. Inertia vs fear vs anti-establishment feeling vs product vs old vs young etc.etc. I'm not sure how much difference any of this will make.
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    nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    Still in love with Anna Friel!
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    LayneLayne Posts: 163
    kle4 said:

    Layne said:

    One of my Leaver friends is upset this is appearing as a promoted tweet in his feed

    https://twitter.com/StrongerIn/status/722110918906261504

    Another lie. The leave campaign is Vote Leave. The traitors selling us out to the EU are willing to stoop to any depth.
    They may be willing to stoop to any depth, but in terms of scandalous political tactics, equating a Leave campaign with the Leave campaign, that is to say the official one, is not much to write home about, particularly if the former did say that.

    I may be a Leaver, but I'm quite sure if it has not already happened, someone who supports Remaining will say something really stupid, and it will be reacted to as though the PM said it personally, or at the least attributed to the 'Remain campaign', even if they are not a spokesperson for BSE, so I struggle to get worked up over such standard political fare, because I know my side will do the same, even though we have what I consider the more compelling arguments
    kle4 said:

    Layne said:

    One of my Leaver friends is upset this is appearing as a promoted tweet in his feed

    https://twitter.com/StrongerIn/status/722110918906261504

    Another lie. The leave campaign is Vote Leave. The traitors selling us out to the EU are willing to stoop to any depth.
    They may be willing to stoop to any depth, but in terms of scandalous political tactics, equating a Leave campaign with the Leave campaign, that is to say the official one, is not much to write home about, particularly if the former did say that.

    I may be a Leaver, but I'm quite sure if it has not already happened, someone who supports Remaining will say something really stupid, and it will be reacted to as though the PM said it personally, or at the least attributed to the 'Remain campaign', even if they are not a spokesperson for BSE, so I struggle to get worked up over such standard political fare, because I know my side will do the same, even though we have what I consider the more compelling arguments
    It says it all that the lies of Remain are so ubiquitous we now have to rank them in severity. And I suppose all their lies added together are a small sin relative to buying the referendum with borrowing on the national credit card. Only a completely corrupt political elite would do that.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,727

    htps://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/722167042124734464

    Probably a silly move to send them, even for training (not to be cynical, but I hope it is more effective than it sometimes appears, in places like Iraq), but of course a vote isn't needed. While not a terrible idea for parliament to have been consulted more than in the past on military matters, probably a good idea to reinforce the point the government can act on its own, as sometimes it might well be necessary to do so with some urgency.
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Harry Cole ‏@MrHarryCole
    3 of most respected thinkers on right - @FraserNelson, @andrew_lilico + @AllisterHeath - all say Osborne being dishonest. Not ideal for No11
  • Options

    One of my Leaver friends is upset this is appearing as a promoted tweet in his feed

    https://twitter.com/StrongerIn/status/722110918906261504

    Upsetting but very effective. It was a stupid thing to say and no mistake, and Remain are well advised in capitalising it. No point in denial or equivocation, just be on the attack at the next opportunity.
    I'm surprised Leave haven't made more of Sir Stuart Rose's gaffe a few weeks earlier.

    I'd have been hammering that message every day
    I'll be honest, Vote Leave at present strike me as a bit cerebral and rather lacking in campaigning nouse. But in the end I think we all know this is more of a battle of bigger forces. Inertia vs fear vs anti-establishment feeling vs product vs old vs young etc.etc. I'm not sure how much difference any of this will make.
    I think that's Gove's influence, he's the Sir Keith Josepth kinda guy.

    Boris is the front man, and popular too.

    I also think neither of them will go after Remain's front man, David Cameron, so they are trying to frame the debate as Remain is the risk.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,277

    Harry Cole ‏@MrHarryCole
    3 of most respected thinkers on right - @FraserNelson, @andrew_lilico + @AllisterHeath - all say Osborne being dishonest. Not ideal for No11

    Who respects Fraser Nelson exactly?
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,942
    Caught out by the new thread ...

    As a West Ham fan enjoying one of our best seasons in decades I would be genuinely disappointed if the two points we cost Leicester meant they didn't win the Premier League. It is a very long time since I have so badly wanted a team other than the Hammers to win.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,727
    Layne said:

    kle4 said:

    Layne said:

    One of my Leaver friends is upset this is appearing as a promoted tweet in his feed

    https://twitter.com/StrongerIn/status/722110918906261504

    Another lie. The leave campaign is Vote Leave. The traitors selling us out to the EU are willing to stoop to any depth.
    They may be willing to stoop to any depth, but in terms of scandalous political tactics, equating a Leave campaign with the Leave campaign, that is to say the official one, is not much to write home about, particularly if the former did say that.

    I may be a Leaver, but I'm quite sure if it has not already happened, someone who supports Remaining will say something really stupid, and it will be reacted to as though the PM said it personally, or at the least attributed to the 'Remain campaign', even if they are not a spokesperson for BSE, so I struggle to get worked up over such standard political fare, because I know my side will do the same, even though we have what I consider the more compelling arguments
    kle4 said:

    Layne said:

    One of my Leaver friends is upset this is appearing as a promoted tweet in his feed

    https://twitter.com/StrongerIn/status/722110918906261504

    Another lie. The leave campaign is Vote Leave. The traitors selling us out to the EU are willing to stoop to any depth.
    They may be willing to stoop to any depth, but in terms of scandalous political tactics, equating a Leave campaign with the Leave campaign, that is to say the official one, is not much to write home about, particularly if the former did say that.

    I may be a Leaver, but I'm quite sure if it has not already happened, someone who supports Remaining will say something really stupid, and it will be reacted to as though the PM said it personally, or at the least attributed to the 'Remain campaign', even if they are not a spokesperson for BSE, so I struggle to get worked up over such standard political fare, because I know my side will do the same, even though we have what I consider the more compelling arguments
    And I suppose all their lies added together are a small sin relative to buying the referendum with borrowing on the national credit card.
    I assume you mean the £7million mail out ahead of the campaign period. Yeah, that was a sneaky move.

    In terms of it speaking how bad they are that we are reduced to ranking the severity of their 'lies', but really that just seems pretty normal practice - politics is about spin, half truths and obfuscations, no side or campaign is going to be squeaky clean after wrestling in the mud, so it'll always come down to a debate on which side is the most filthy.
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    nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    DavidL said:

    Harry Cole ‏@MrHarryCole
    3 of most respected thinkers on right - @FraserNelson, @andrew_lilico + @AllisterHeath - all say Osborne being dishonest. Not ideal for No11

    Who respects Fraser Nelson exactly?
    I respect Fraser Nelson much more than I respect George Osborne.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    ROFL

    @camusson: MPs Alex Salmond & Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh have been removed from Council of Europe socialist group after Labour argued SNP aren't socialists
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    LayneLayne Posts: 163
    Michael Gove and Boris Johnson are decent patriots. But they must remember the country is more important than their friends leading the Conservative Party.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,942

    kle4 said:

    I'm in the 8%.

    Likewise. I'm in the 'democracy / sovereignty' sub-set.
    Yep. Same for me. I know I am in a very small minority but this has never been about immigration for me and if that was the only reason for Brexit I would not be supporting it.
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    nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    edited April 2016

    Caught out by the new thread ...

    As a West Ham fan enjoying one of our best seasons in decades I would be genuinely disappointed if the two points we cost Leicester meant they didn't win the Premier League. It is a very long time since I have so badly wanted a team other than the Hammers to win.

    I bought Spurs on the spreads this morning, hugely impressive again tonight and Leicester are feeling the pressure.
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    Exclusive Sir Lynton Crosby, the strategist behind the Conservative's election victory, says that the Remain campaign is pulling ahead as the referendum approaches

    As the countdown to the referendum begins its final phase the Remain campaign has seen further improvement in its position according to the latest ORB Poll for the The Telegraph.

    While there is a growing majority preference among UK voters for Britain to remain in the EU, the risk for the Remain campaign as identified in previous ORB polls continues to be that Leave voters are more motivated to vote at this stage of the referendum campaign.

    However, the gap in motivation to turnout and vote between the two sides is closing. The latest ORB poll shows those who want the UK to remain in the EU are becoming more motivated to vote. This research shows that turnout overall is up three points (to 67 per cent).

    This turnout jump is completely down to an increase in motivation among Remain voters – where 65% (up four points since the previous track) are now likely to cast a vote. Contrastingly, there has been no change in motivation among Leave voters, with 70 per cent saying that they are definite to vote on referendum day.

    If a referendum was held today, Remain would secure 52 per cent of the vote, an increase of three points since the previous ORB poll, while Leave would secure 43 per cent of the vote, a decrease of five points since the previous poll. But this isn’t solely down to an improvement in turnout among Remain voters

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/18/remain-pulls-ahead-of-leave-in-eu-referendum-poll-as-david-camer/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,277
    It seems that Gove has finally been provoked into action. Not sure that was a good idea for Osborne either. He has been very quiet up to now since his original contributions.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,727

    htps://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/722168970942488576

    Good line from Gove. Has the potential to rebound, perhaps, but like a lot of people the EU puts my back up with their patronising BS all the time, so it is easier to imagine defenses of it being similarly high handed and patronising than the reverse attack (Leave behaving like illogical children).
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    LayneLayne Posts: 163
    Casino Royale, that is a good list but you should add no EU green taxes which put up our energy costs and exports our emissions to China.
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    9 weeks from referendum day and the polls IMHO are level if proper turnout assumptions are used.

    Of course it is a complete disaster for LEAVE which has not launched yet.....
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,727
    On topic, I think SeanT has a point. While, in most instances, I would agree such a strong showing for economic matters being the most important factor would be good for remain, it still appears very close despite being overwhelmingly the most important factor, so it may be the case it is not as effective as that figure suggests it will be.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,727

    Caught out by the new thread ...

    As a West Ham fan enjoying one of our best seasons in decades I would be genuinely disappointed if the two points we cost Leicester meant they didn't win the Premier League. It is a very long time since I have so badly wanted a team other than the Hammers to win.

    I bought Spurs on the spreads this morning, hugely impressive again tonight and Leicester are feeling the pressure.
    And may be without Vardy for several games now.
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    Today we have the Government advising us that we are getting 3 million more immigrants. A simply staggering number. One of Osborne's facts. This is going to go down like a bucket of cold sick with the working class voters. 9 weeks is plenty of time to communicate that fact.
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    nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    kle4 said:

    Caught out by the new thread ...

    As a West Ham fan enjoying one of our best seasons in decades I would be genuinely disappointed if the two points we cost Leicester meant they didn't win the Premier League. It is a very long time since I have so badly wanted a team other than the Hammers to win.

    I bought Spurs on the spreads this morning, hugely impressive again tonight and Leicester are feeling the pressure.
    And may be without Vardy for several games now.
    Costa got an extra game, think Vardy will get the same.
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    Layne said:

    The £4,300 number has already been shown to be a complete sham in less than 12 hours. It is just another three million jobs. Except this one is owned by George Osborne and Stephen Crabb rather than Nick Clegg.

    Just as the 350 million saving a week by leave is. I am not at all happy with either figures but there does seem to be a shift in the media to the economy including the LSE and IFS broadly agreeing with the Treasury
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,225



    If a referendum was held today, Remain would secure 52 per cent of the vote, an increase of three points since the previous ORB poll, while Leave would secure 43 per cent of the vote, a decrease of five points since the previous poll. But this isn’t solely down to an improvement in turnout among Remain voters

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/18/remain-pulls-ahead-of-leave-in-eu-referendum-poll-as-david-camer/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    So in a binary question, 95% vote in or out.

    What happens to the other 5%?

    Or is the journalist just talking rubbish based on opinion polls that proved their skill, accuracy and perspicacity to such remarkable effect last year?
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,727

    kle4 said:

    Caught out by the new thread ...

    As a West Ham fan enjoying one of our best seasons in decades I would be genuinely disappointed if the two points we cost Leicester meant they didn't win the Premier League. It is a very long time since I have so badly wanted a team other than the Hammers to win.

    I bought Spurs on the spreads this morning, hugely impressive again tonight and Leicester are feeling the pressure.
    And may be without Vardy for several games now.
    Costa got an extra game, think Vardy will get the same.
    1-0 up and doing fine and he decides to dive, what a strange decision with potentially significant consequences. Feel like they're bottling it, squeaked a lot of games, but eventually luck runs out.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    SeanT said:

    Useless anecdote alert: just had dinner with a very will informed friend, one of the most astute persons I know. This person is super bright, gently right wing, but very free thinking, and professionally knows EVERYONE from senior Cabinet Ministers to famous TV stars to all the major journalists.

    His thoughts on the referendum? Personally he s IN for selfish reasons, but he is now increasingly convinced it is too close to call. Far too close for comfort.

    My friend also named an extremely well known TV personality who is absolutely the epitome of Middle Britain, and my friend said this celeb was OUT, to his total surprise. Given that this celeb is generally regarded as a bellwether for the country, my friend now fears it will go OUT.



    OMG where Biggins goes, the country follows.
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    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    SeanT said:

    Useless anecdote alert: just had dinner with a very will informed friend, one of the most astute persons I know. This person is super bright, gently right wing, but very free thinking, and professionally knows EVERYONE from senior Cabinet Ministers to famous TV stars to all the major journalists.

    His thoughts on the referendum? Personally he s IN for selfish reasons, but he is now increasingly convinced it is too close to call. Far too close for comfort.

    My friend also named an extremely well known TV personality who is absolutely the epitome of Middle Britain, and my friend said this celeb was OUT, to his total surprise. Given that this celeb is generally regarded as a bellwether for the country, my friend now fears it will go OUT.



    Is it Brucie?
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    Big call by Sir Lynton

    Sir Lynton Crosby, the strategist behind the Conservative's election victory, says that the Remain campaign is pulling ahead as the referendum approaches
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,286

    One of my Leaver friends is upset this is appearing as a promoted tweet in his feed

    https://twitter.com/StrongerIn/status/722110918906261504

    How do the REMAINERS know BREXIT will cost us £4,300 per household?
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Looks like leave won't need to turn the debate onto immigration.

    Osborne had done it for them.

    Oops
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    DavidL said:

    It seems that Gove has finally been provoked into action. Not sure that was a good idea for Osborne either. He has been very quiet up to now since his original contributions.

    He is perhaps shocked at the lengths Cameron and Osborne will go to to win. I suspect quite a few tories are.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,328
    DavidL said:

    Harry Cole ‏@MrHarryCole
    3 of most respected thinkers on right - @FraserNelson, @andrew_lilico + @AllisterHeath - all say Osborne being dishonest. Not ideal for No11

    Who respects Fraser Nelson exactly?
    I do.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    taffys said:

    DavidL said:

    It seems that Gove has finally been provoked into action. Not sure that was a good idea for Osborne either. He has been very quiet up to now since his original contributions.

    He is perhaps shocked at the lengths Cameron and Osborne will go to to win. I suspect quite a few tories are.
    Why? Dave and George have been dishing out this shit for years. It's their signature. You live by the sword, you die by the sword.
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    Today we have the Government advising us that we are getting 3 million more immigrants. A simply staggering number. One of Osborne's facts. This is going to go down like a bucket of cold sick with the working class voters. 9 weeks is plenty of time to communicate that fact.

    I spoke to soon. I see that some newspapers have seized on the 3 million figure. Is this the start of another omnishambles event from Osborne with his "brilliant 200 page plan" unravelling within 24 hours?
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,942

    One of my Leaver friends is upset this is appearing as a promoted tweet in his feed

    https://twitter.com/StrongerIn/status/722110918906261504

    How do the REMAINERS know BREXIT will cost us £4,300 per household?
    They don't. They are just making it up.
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    The left should be at the very front of the fight to leave the EU, says Brendan O'Neill

    The strange death of left-wing Euroscepticism

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/04/the-strange-death-of-left-wing-euroscepticism/
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,328

    One of my Leaver friends is upset this is appearing as a promoted tweet in his feed

    https://twitter.com/StrongerIn/status/722110918906261504

    Upsetting but very effective. It was a stupid thing to say and no mistake, and Remain are well advised in capitalising it. No point in denial or equivocation, just be on the attack at the next opportunity.
    I'm surprised Leave haven't made more of Sir Stuart Rose's gaffe a few weeks earlier.

    I'd have been hammering that message every day
    I'll be honest, Vote Leave at present strike me as a bit cerebral and rather lacking in campaigning nouse. But in the end I think we all know this is more of a battle of bigger forces. Inertia vs fear vs anti-establishment feeling vs product vs old vs young etc.etc. I'm not sure how much difference any of this will make.
    Vote Leave need to pull their finger out. Only 25% have heard from them, versus 44% for Remain.

    I thought I'd be delivering leaflets on Saturday. I was told by the organiser that "that comes later".

    I was like, how much later? July?

    Then, whilst the deputy organiser went back to having his cooked breakfast, I went straight out with another guy to leaflet the public outside the community centre.

    The whole country has had the Government guff, and Will Straw's smegma. That's why I've ordered 2,000 leaflets.

    I will deliver them myself.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited April 2016
    SeanT said:

    Useless anecdote alert: just had dinner with a very will informed friend, one of the most astute persons I know. This person is super bright, gently right wing, but very free thinking, and professionally knows EVERYONE from senior Cabinet Ministers to famous TV stars to all the major journalists.

    His thoughts on the referendum? Personally he s IN for selfish reasons, but he is now increasingly convinced it is too close to call. Far too close for comfort.

    My friend also named an extremely well known TV personality who is absolutely the epitome of Middle Britain, and my friend said this celeb was OUT, to his total surprise. Given that this celeb is generally regarded as a bellwether for the country, my friend now fears it will go OUT.



    Ian Botham and Michael Caine have both come out for Leave. Not fashionable with the London elite but the sort of people ordinary folk respect.
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    One of my Leaver friends is upset this is appearing as a promoted tweet in his feed

    https://twitter.com/StrongerIn/status/722110918906261504

    How do the REMAINERS know BREXIT will cost us £4,300 per household?
    It is the Treasury report that quote the figure. I think it is as unreliable as the 350 million per week leave quote is. The poll tonight seems to be the first to indicate a real move to remain. Also the NFU and the Royal College of Midwives have both come out in support of remain
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,277

    DavidL said:

    Harry Cole ‏@MrHarryCole
    3 of most respected thinkers on right - @FraserNelson, @andrew_lilico + @AllisterHeath - all say Osborne being dishonest. Not ideal for No11

    Who respects Fraser Nelson exactly?
    I do.
    This Fraser? http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/apr/18/fraser-nelson-spectator-editor-put-money-on-ed-miliband
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    AndyJS said:

    SeanT said:

    Useless anecdote alert: just had dinner with a very will informed friend, one of the most astute persons I know. This person is super bright, gently right wing, but very free thinking, and professionally knows EVERYONE from senior Cabinet Ministers to famous TV stars to all the major journalists.

    His thoughts on the referendum? Personally he s IN for selfish reasons, but he is now increasingly convinced it is too close to call. Far too close for comfort.

    My friend also named an extremely well known TV personality who is absolutely the epitome of Middle Britain, and my friend said this celeb was OUT, to his total surprise. Given that this celeb is generally regarded as a bellwether for the country, my friend now fears it will go OUT.



    Ian Botham and Michael Caine have both come out for Leave. Not fashionable with the London elite but the sort of people ordinary folk respect.
    I suspect Beefy's political influence is overstated.
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    nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Caught out by the new thread ...

    As a West Ham fan enjoying one of our best seasons in decades I would be genuinely disappointed if the two points we cost Leicester meant they didn't win the Premier League. It is a very long time since I have so badly wanted a team other than the Hammers to win.

    I bought Spurs on the spreads this morning, hugely impressive again tonight and Leicester are feeling the pressure.
    And may be without Vardy for several games now.
    Costa got an extra game, think Vardy will get the same.
    1-0 up and doing fine and he decides to dive, what a strange decision with potentially significant consequences. Feel like they're bottling it, squeaked a lot of games, but eventually luck runs out.
    Agree it feels like that, pressure is on big time now.

    Last game is at Chelsea and we would much rather Ranieri won it than Spurs.
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    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,304
    SeanT said:

    Useless anecdote alert: just had dinner with a very will informed friend, one of the most astute persons I know. This person is super bright, gently right wing, but very free thinking, and professionally knows EVERYONE from senior Cabinet Ministers to famous TV stars to all the major journalists.

    His thoughts on the referendum? Personally he s IN for selfish reasons, but he is now increasingly convinced it is too close to call. Far too close for comfort.

    My friend also named an extremely well known TV personality who is absolutely the epitome of Middle Britain, and my friend said this celeb was OUT, to his total surprise. Given that this celeb is generally regarded as a bellwether for the country, my friend now fears it will go OUT.



    Alan Titchmarsh?
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @DPJHodges: The National Farmers Union backs Remain. Further evidence of a CIA plot.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,328
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Harry Cole ‏@MrHarryCole
    3 of most respected thinkers on right - @FraserNelson, @andrew_lilico + @AllisterHeath - all say Osborne being dishonest. Not ideal for No11

    Who respects Fraser Nelson exactly?
    I do.
    This Fraser? http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/apr/18/fraser-nelson-spectator-editor-put-money-on-ed-miliband
    That was in April 2014. OGH put a lot on Ed Miliband, and even Alastair assessed him as being odds on right up to almost the end of the election campaign.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,328

    One of my Leaver friends is upset this is appearing as a promoted tweet in his feed

    h

    How do the REMAINERS know BREXIT will cost us £4,300 per household?
    If you start from the assumption that everything that George Osborne says between now and 23rd June is a lie, you won't go far wrong.
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    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    Scott_P said:

    @DPJHodges: The National Farmers Union backs Remain. Further evidence of a CIA plot.

    More like evidence that farmers have twigged that The Treasury is more likely to turn off the subsidy tap, than Brussels.
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    PeterCPeterC Posts: 1,274

    SeanT said:

    Useless anecdote alert: just had dinner with a very will informed friend, one of the most astute persons I know. This person is super bright, gently right wing, but very free thinking, and professionally knows EVERYONE from senior Cabinet Ministers to famous TV stars to all the major journalists.

    His thoughts on the referendum? Personally he s IN for selfish reasons, but he is now increasingly convinced it is too close to call. Far too close for comfort.

    My friend also named an extremely well known TV personality who is absolutely the epitome of Middle Britain, and my friend said this celeb was OUT, to his total surprise. Given that this celeb is generally regarded as a bellwether for the country, my friend now fears it will go OUT.



    Alan Titchmarsh?
    David Dimbleby?
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @jennirsl: @SamCoatesTimes So..leader of the free world makes time for Corbyn, but Corbyn too busy to go? With WHAT? Jumble sale for Nicaragua? NEC?

    @SamCoatesTimes: @jennirsl I'm afraid I'm going to have to refer you to the Labour press office with those questions...
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    PeterC said:

    SeanT said:

    Useless anecdote alert: just had dinner with a very will informed friend, one of the most astute persons I know. This person is super bright, gently right wing, but very free thinking, and professionally knows EVERYONE from senior Cabinet Ministers to famous TV stars to all the major journalists.

    His thoughts on the referendum? Personally he s IN for selfish reasons, but he is now increasingly convinced it is too close to call. Far too close for comfort.

    My friend also named an extremely well known TV personality who is absolutely the epitome of Middle Britain, and my friend said this celeb was OUT, to his total surprise. Given that this celeb is generally regarded as a bellwether for the country, my friend now fears it will go OUT.



    Alan Titchmarsh?
    David Dimbleby?
    H from steps
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @chrisshipitv: Next up (if u not seen enough of him 2day) George Osborne on @agendaitv & his reaction to @bernardjenkin's withering assessment of his maths
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926

    One of my Leaver friends is upset this is appearing as a promoted tweet in his feed

    https://twitter.com/StrongerIn/status/722110918906261504

    How do the REMAINERS know BREXIT will cost us £4,300 per household?
    They don't. They are just making it up.
    The model is the same one used during indyref, and the main equations have been debunked as being an oversimplification for stuff like Sindy and Brexit.
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    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474

    //twitter.com/suttonnick/status/722175752670732288

    The wheels have fallen off already. Is this a record for Osborne?

    What fun. Either HMG denies the figures in which case the whole dossier goes down as bunkum, or they confirm it and take a bucket of manure in the face.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,815
    edited April 2016
    Good piece.

    Cameron and Osborne probably will get their wish and keep us locked in to the EU (with more integration and a probable switch to the Euro no doubt on the cards during the coming decades) but there is one saving grace... We'll be able to sit back and watch the spectacle of the Odious Osborne (what a nice ring that phrase has... When the papers put it in their headlines a few years hence, remember you heard it here first) being utterly eviscerated and destroyed after Cameron b*ggers off.

    How we'll laugh! :smiley:
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    The only celeb endorsement worth anything would be.

    David Attenborough
    David Beckham
    Paul McCartney

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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    new poll ?

    Dan Hodges ‏@DPJHodges
    ORB poll: Remain 52%, Leave 43%.
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    new poll ?

    Dan Hodges ‏@DPJHodges
    ORB poll: Remain 52%, Leave 43%.

    Yup I posted it down thread
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    watford30 said:

    //twitter.com/suttonnick/status/722175752670732288

    The wheels have fallen off already. Is this a record for Osborne?

    What fun. Either HMG denies the figures in which case the whole dossier goes down as bunkum, or they confirm it and take a bucket of manure in the face.
    Leave will lose the economy case and they hope immigration will win them the day.
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    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    Sherlock Holmes?
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    new poll ?

    Dan Hodges ‏@DPJHodges
    ORB poll: Remain 52%, Leave 43%.

    Yup I posted it down thread
    Sorry didn't see.
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    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474

    watford30 said:

    //twitter.com/suttonnick/status/722175752670732288

    The wheels have fallen off already. Is this a record for Osborne?

    What fun. Either HMG denies the figures in which case the whole dossier goes down as bunkum, or they confirm it and take a bucket of manure in the face.
    Leave will lose the economy case and they hope immigration will win them the day.
    Leave should simply invent vaguely plausible figures, and repeat them endlessly. That seems to be how it works with Remain.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,328
    Matthew Elliot is going to block my email by the time this campaign is done.
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    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869
    SeanT said:

    This site is teetering, fatally, on the farcical. It's not the fact that you are constantly shilling for REMAIN - that's annoying but fair, OGH is a europhile, a Lib Dem, his deputies and writers ostly feel the same - but the endless drivel you spout is simply incorrect.

    If LEAVE was really as hopeless and helpless as you endlessly claim, then REMAIN would now be out of sight in the polling. But it's MOE Dead Heat.

    Perhaps, as a service to political bettors, you might like to run a few threads discussing why that is the case, rather than this exercise in relentless wishful thinking.

    I think the whole boring EUref campaign showcases this site's greatest strength: it's off-topic conversations.

    Very much like the test match commentators on the radio when it starts raining - they go from business to entertaining conversation without missing a beat.
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    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    watford30 said:

    watford30 said:

    //twitter.com/suttonnick/status/722175752670732288

    The wheels have fallen off already. Is this a record for Osborne?

    What fun. Either HMG denies the figures in which case the whole dossier goes down as bunkum, or they confirm it and take a bucket of manure in the face.
    Leave will lose the economy case and they hope immigration will win them the day.
    Leave should simply invent vaguely plausible figures, and repeat them endlessly. That seems to be how it works with Remain.
    Except their numbers aren't vaguely plausible.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,286

    Caught out by the new thread ...

    As a West Ham fan enjoying one of our best seasons in decades I would be genuinely disappointed if the two points we cost Leicester meant they didn't win the Premier League. It is a very long time since I have so badly wanted a team other than the Hammers to win.

    Same here, as a fellow Hammers fan - and to think Leicester did so poorly last season!
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    watford30 said:

    //twitter.com/suttonnick/status/722175752670732288

    The wheels have fallen off already. Is this a record for Osborne?

    What fun. Either HMG denies the figures in which case the whole dossier goes down as bunkum, or they confirm it and take a bucket of manure in the face.
    Leave will lose the economy case and they hope immigration will win them the day.
    Immigration will not work as an issue if the EEA/EFTA route is favoured.
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    philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    edited April 2016
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Useless anecdote alert: just had dinner with a very will informed friend, one of the most astute persons I know. This person is super bright, gently right wing, but very free thinking, and professionally knows EVERYONE from senior Cabinet Ministers to famous TV stars to all the major journalists.

    His thoughts on the referendum? Personally he s IN for selfish reasons, but he is now increasingly convinced it is too close to call. Far too close for comfort.

    My friend also named an extremely well known TV personality who is absolutely the epitome of Middle Britain, and my friend said this celeb was OUT, to his total surprise. Given that this celeb is generally regarded as a bellwether for the country, my friend now fears it will go OUT.



    Alan Titchmarsh?
    I will confirm it is NOT Alan Titchmarsh, we are talking someone EVEN more famous.

    And beyond that, my lips are zipped.
    Mr J Woss?
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    GIN1138 said:

    Good piece.

    Cameron and Osborne probably will get their wish and keep us locked in to the EU (with more integration and a probable switch to the Euro no doubt on the cards during the coming decades) but there is one saving grace... We'll be able to sit back and watch the spectacle of the Odious Osborne (what a nice ring that phrase has... When the papers put it in their headlines a few years hence, remember you heard it here first) being utterly eviscerated and destroyed after Cameron b*ggers off.

    How we'll laugh! :smiley:
    Also fun watching the tory leave MP's and membership get revenge on the snake when the leadership contest starts.
This discussion has been closed.