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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Cameron’s Ipsos-MORI ratings continue to decline while Corb

SystemSystem Posts: 11,017
edited April 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Cameron’s Ipsos-MORI ratings continue to decline while Corbyn’s improve

For the 2nd month running Corbyn tops the @IpsosMORI leader ratings pic.twitter.com/NzkQ5A1JZ1

Read the full story here


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    Remain 1st
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Dave takes one for the party country European elite.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    Junior doctors' leaders are trying to bring down the government, a government source has told the BBC.

    In a scathing attack, the source said the two all-out strikes this week were aimed at toppling the government and Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-36126740
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,054
    Indigo said:

    Dave takes one for the party country European elite.

    How selfless of him to persist in destroying his political opponents.
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    Bit of a recovery for Dave overall though.
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    Ed Miliband's net rating in April 2011 was plus 1, Cameron's was minus 14
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @DPJHodges: Outters will begin to shift their line. You'll start seing articles claiming anything over 40% is a win for them and a defeat for Cameron.

    @DPJHodges: Owen Paterson says current referendum won't settle the issue. So it took about 4 hours.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,599
    Any ratings for the 'Near Perfect Chancellor'?
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Err, in this poll Cameron's ratings have improved a smidgen, rather than continuing to decline, haven't they?
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,955
    Patrick said:

    If? Of course there will be a recession in the near future. We get one just about every decade. 2008 is 8 years ago now. We should be deep into the 'running a surplus phase' of a Keynesian cycle. Some very big countries are in a horrible state. Chance of getting through this parliament with no recession is close to zero IMHO. That's when we'll find out just how sorted the EU really is or isn't. And ourselves. We never got into the 'fixing the roof' phase and will be made to suffer for it.

    Economic expansions do not die of old age; they die because - usually - economies become unbalanced and/or hit constraints. There are exceptions, such as when there is an external shock, but if you look over the last 50 years, the majority of recessions were caused by governments raising interest rates to slow the economy after inflation began to accelerate.

    There are other signs we can look for. The later stages of economic expansions usually see personal and corporate debt start to take off. Similarly, the current account deficit usually widens before a recession, and shrinks during and after it.

    If you look at the "tell tale signs a recession is coming", you get:

    - rising inflation?
    No. Still virtually non-existent.

    - rising personal and corporate debt?
    No. Although at still elevated levels, it's declining.

    - widening current account deficit?
    Yes. Excluding the effects of cheaper oil, the current account deficit is amongst the worst in the world.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Junior doctors' leaders are trying to bring down the government, a government source has told the BBC.

    @iainmartin1: Great piece by @jameskirkup on the tragic naivety of the junior doctors strike. https://t.co/EgY00wxmNd
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    Any ratings for the 'Near Perfect Chancellor'?

    They're busy sinking a mine shaft to find them.
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Scott_P said:

    @DPJHodges: Outters will begin to shift their line. You'll start seing articles claiming anything over 40% is a win for them and a defeat for Cameron.

    @DPJHodges: Owen Paterson says current referendum won't settle the issue. So it took about 4 hours.

    Do you have a job or just spend all day following twitter? Surely there's more to life.
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    Junior doctors' leaders are trying to bring down the government, a government source has told the BBC.

    In a scathing attack, the source said the two all-out strikes this week were aimed at toppling the government and Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-36126740

    HMG should stop whining, and deal with it.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    rcs1000 said:


    ...
    - widening current account deficit?
    Yes. Excluding the effects of cheaper oil, the current account deficit is amongst the worst in the world.

    For the UK, yes, but not in the EU as a whole, of course.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,282
    Afternoon all, cracking speech by the sainted Theresa.

    If only I could vote for the committee of civil servants who wrote it for next Cons leader I would be happy. I see some of them seem to have spent some time on PB.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    SNIP

    Do you have a job or just spend all day following me on PB? Surely there's more to life.

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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Higher dissatisfaction among Tory voters but overall +3, the likes of surbiton and other Labour voters happy with Dave on PB. I'm not sure about you guys, but it doesn't seem like a sustainable situation for Dave or the party at the moment, something has to give.
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    RCS1000

    What about wages, unemployment, labour participation rate, freight rates, electricity consumption, oil in storage, housing starts, student loan indebtedness, etc, etc. I suspect your figures are UK not global. Recessions can start anywhere and spread. What in your view is the chance of China not slowing markedly?
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    rcs1000 said:


    ...
    - widening current account deficit?
    Yes. Excluding the effects of cheaper oil, the current account deficit is amongst the worst in the world.

    For the UK, yes, but not in the EU as a whole, of course.
    Without the monetary stimulus programme from the ECB it is questionable whether there would be very much growth at all outside of Spain and possibly Germany.
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    MaxPB said:

    Higher dissatisfaction among Tory voters but overall +3, the likes of surbiton and other Labour voters happy with Dave on PB. I'm not sure about you guys, but it doesn't seem like a sustainable situation for Dave or the party at the moment, something has to give.

    71% of Tory voters are still satisfied with him, is all relative.

    Ignore the noisy minority
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Indigo said:

    Dave takes one for the party country European elite.

    How selfless of him to persist in destroying his political opponents.
    I admire your optimism.

    Actually the odd thing about this referendum is that both Leave and Remain are relative side shows.

    The default position is Leave are going to struggle, except, if Erdoğan opens his borders at the end of June, Remain are sunk without trace, if anyone blows anything significant up, Remain are history, and if Greece implodes because the IMF talks stall in June, Remain have had it.

    Must be odd to be so optimistic, but have so many possibilities that might sink you without trace that you can do nothing about ;)
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Scott_P said:

    SNIP

    Do you have a job or just spend all day following me on PB? Surely there's more to life.

    Follow you? Don't flatter yourself, I just never see you post anything other than c&p from twitter. OK you don't have a job, surely there are better things to do with your time, deliver some leaflets for Remain and engage with real people, that may sound unusual but worth a try.
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    BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191

    Ed Miliband's net rating in April 2011 was plus 1, Cameron's was minus 14

    yes, I think there is a certain amount of comparing like with like that needs to be done.

    How does Cameron compare to other prime ministers, how does Corbyn compare to Ed M at a similar juncture.
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    I often ask this: who paid the polling company for this poll?
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    MaxPB said:

    Higher dissatisfaction among Tory voters but overall +3, the likes of surbiton and other Labour voters happy with Dave on PB. I'm not sure about you guys, but it doesn't seem like a sustainable situation for Dave or the party at the moment, something has to give.

    71% of Tory voters are still satisfied with him, is all relative.

    Ignore the noisy minority
    You have to figure that among the membership the situation will be worse still.
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    One of the worst kept secrets at Westminster is that Theresa May has a distinctly low opinion of Boris Johnson. As Home Secretary she has had more dealings with the Mayor of London than most Cabinet ministers, and there is clearly no love lost between the pair.

    When she decided to turn down his request to deploy water canons in London she didn’t do so via a discrete written ministerial statement, but by a statement in the Commons which Johnson himself had to sit through.

    So, there’s a certain irony that May has adopted the EU referendum position that many of Boris’s allies thought he would. She is for In, but with reservations and implicit criticisms of the renegotiation and the In campaign.

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/04/theresa-may-has-revealed-she-is-a-reluctant-member-of-the-in-campaign/
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,282
    edited April 2016
    In other news, it seems that the FullFact.org document's heart is in Remain but manages to make a convincing case for Leave, in contradistinction to the Capital Economics document, whose heart was in Leave, but made a convincing case for Remain.

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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Scott_P said:

    SNIP

    Do you have a job or just spend all day following me on PB? Surely there's more to life.

    Follow you? Don't flatter yourself, I just never see you post anything other than c&p from twitter. OK you don't have a job, surely there are better things to do with your time, deliver some leaflets for Remain and engage with real people, that may sound unusual but worth a try.
    He probably is employed, somewhere in the basement at Matthew Parker Street.
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    Ed Miliband's net rating in April 2011 was plus 1, Cameron's was minus 14

    yes, I think there is a certain amount of comparing like with like that needs to be done.

    How does Cameron compare to other prime ministers, how does Corbyn compare to Ed M at a similar juncture.
    In June 1984, one year after her second election victory, Lady Thatcher net ratings were minus 15.

    So Cameron's doing better than Thatcher at a similar point.
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Indigo said:

    Scott_P said:

    SNIP

    Do you have a job or just spend all day following me on PB? Surely there's more to life.

    Follow you? Don't flatter yourself, I just never see you post anything other than c&p from twitter. OK you don't have a job, surely there are better things to do with your time, deliver some leaflets for Remain and engage with real people, that may sound unusual but worth a try.
    He probably is employed, somewhere in the basement at Matthew Parker Street.
    I can't imagine him getting a job where you have to think
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,955

    rcs1000 said:


    ...
    - widening current account deficit?
    Yes. Excluding the effects of cheaper oil, the current account deficit is amongst the worst in the world.

    For the UK, yes, but not in the EU as a whole, of course.
    The Eurozone, despite all its other faults, runs a massive current account surplus.

    Its problem is lack of domestic demand, caused by lack of confidence. And it's a bit of a vicious circle: savings rates are amongst the highest in the world because people are worried. But the high levels of savings constrain economic growth (a rising savings rate will tend to detract from growth, which is why during recessions monetary policy is to discourage saving and encourafe spending), and therefore increase economic uncertainty... causing savings levels to remain high.

    George Magnus, of Deutsche Bank, wrote about this phenomenon and called it "Euroglut". Personally, I think he misses that saving exhibits declining marginal utility, and therefore beyond a certain point, propensity to save will decline. Given pretty awful demographics in much of the EU, that could - of course - be some way away.
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    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Higher dissatisfaction among Tory voters but overall +3, the likes of surbiton and other Labour voters happy with Dave on PB. I'm not sure about you guys, but it doesn't seem like a sustainable situation for Dave or the party at the moment, something has to give.

    71% of Tory voters are still satisfied with him, is all relative.

    Ignore the noisy minority
    You have to figure that among the membership the situation will be worse still.
    I have my first full canvassing session this afternoon, I'll let you know.
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    The Eurozone, despite all its other faults, runs a massive current account surplus.

    Really?
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    MaxPB said:

    Higher dissatisfaction among Tory voters but overall +3, the likes of surbiton and other Labour voters happy with Dave on PB. I'm not sure about you guys, but it doesn't seem like a sustainable situation for Dave or the party at the moment, something has to give.

    71% of Tory voters are still satisfied with him, is all relative.

    Ignore the noisy minority
    Although it's pretty usual to have high ratings among party supporters as there's a fairly high correlation between moving to disapprove of a party leader and moving to not support that party. 71% isn't all that high by historic standards, is it?
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    So, there’s a certain irony that May has adopted the EU referendum position that many of Boris’s allies thought he would. She is for In, but with reservations and implicit criticisms of the renegotiation and the In campaign.

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/04/theresa-may-has-revealed-she-is-a-reluctant-member-of-the-in-campaign/

    They deserve each other, on is in it for the Boris Party, the other for the Theresa Party. May is just where Boris was a couple of weeks ago, triangulating, looking for a position to support their side and keep on good terms with the other side because in a leadership competition, everyone's vote has the same value. Still don't fancy her chances.

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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,189
    rcs1000 said:


    - rising inflation?
    No. Still virtually non-existent.

    You know far more about this than me, but what inflation rate do you refer to? Both of the 'official' ONS rates are low, but neither account for house price inflation, which still seems to be bonkers in London and the South East.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:


    ...
    - widening current account deficit?
    Yes. Excluding the effects of cheaper oil, the current account deficit is amongst the worst in the world.

    For the UK, yes, but not in the EU as a whole, of course.
    Without the monetary stimulus programme from the ECB it is questionable whether there would be very much growth at all outside of Spain and possibly Germany.
    True, but that's partly because they started much later than the UK and US, and also partly because of the relative slowdown in China.

    Having said that, it's also the case that the policy mix within individual EU states hasn't been good. France is probably the worst - bleedin' obvious what they need to do, and equally obvious that they are not going to do it anytime soon.

    Still, all of that lot is 'in the price' in terms of growth looking forward; with the ECB doing what it can within the political constraints, and the lower oil price providing an effect like a tax-cut, I don't expect an EU recession in the next couple of years (unless a Leave result triggers one).
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,917
    50% of the population are not sure if Tim Farron is doing a good job.

    And the other 50% don't know.
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    This kinda polling indicates a shellacking for Trump.

    https://twitter.com/aedwardslevy/status/724585955114422272
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    I can't imagine him getting a job where you have to think

    STILL posting about me.

    For someone who claims not to care, thou doth protest much.
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    Junior doctors' leaders are trying to bring down the government, a government source has told the BBC.

    In a scathing attack, the source said the two all-out strikes this week were aimed at toppling the government and Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-36126740

    HMG should stop whining, and deal with it.
    The Hillsborough verdicts tomorrow will dominate the news leaving the doctors with little coverage unless there is a serious incident in A and E
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Mr. Indigo, thought Boris was a lightweight some time ago, so I'm glad he's damaged his prospects.

    May's position appears nonsensical, but I do think she's far likelier than Boris to get the top job.
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    BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    And, to carry on with the comparing apples and pears thing

    Opposition leaders

    https://image.slidesharecdn.com/polmonapril15vicharts-150430090923-conversion-gate02/95/ipsos-mori-political-monitor-26th29th-april-2015-12-638.jpg?cb=1430385044

    Once you go down, you stay down.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    Ed Miliband's net rating in April 2011 was plus 1, Cameron's was minus 14

    yes, I think there is a certain amount of comparing like with like that needs to be done.

    How does Cameron compare to other prime ministers, how does Corbyn compare to Ed M at a similar juncture.
    In June 1984, one year after her second election victory, Lady Thatcher net ratings were minus 15.

    So Cameron's doing better than Thatcher at a similar point.
    But Thatcher wasn't facing off against Corbyn.
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    BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    Well, unless you're Cameron, that is.

    The key thing to note is that they all start off quite positive. Only Blair and Cameron, to a lesser extent, have managed to battle gravity.
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    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820

    The Eurozone, despite all its other faults, runs a massive current account surplus.

    Really?

    It wouldn't surprise me - they have a massive surplus in trade with the UK for instance, and they are very protectionist.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,955

    The Eurozone, despite all its other faults, runs a massive current account surplus.

    Really?

    Here you go: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/euro-area/current-account

    Eurozone current account surplus came in at €11.1 billion in February of 2016 compared to an upwardly revised €8.3 billion surplus in the previous month. The surpluses in balances of goods (to €25.5 billion from €13.6 billion in January), services (to €3.1 billion from €1.9 billion) and primary income (to €6.3 billion from €2.6 billion) widened while the secondary income deficit increased (to €-23.9 billion from €-9.9 billion). Current Account in the Euro Area averaged 2.93 EUR Billion from 1999 until 2016, reaching an all time high of 44.20 EUR Billion in December of 2015
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    BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    edited April 2016

    Ed Miliband's net rating in April 2011 was plus 1, Cameron's was minus 14

    yes, I think there is a certain amount of comparing like with like that needs to be done.

    How does Cameron compare to other prime ministers, how does Corbyn compare to Ed M at a similar juncture.
    In June 1984, one year after her second election victory, Lady Thatcher net ratings were minus 15.

    So Cameron's doing better than Thatcher at a similar point.
    I found some pictures that would put this into context. Plus a few comments. Probably enough to write a caveat emptor thread starter, if you wanted to.
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Pulpstar said:

    50% of the population are not sure if Tim Farron is doing a good job.

    And the other 50% don't know.

    This is where the whole thing breaks down, I doubt 10% of the population have heard of Farron, the people that take part in this poll are those politically engaged, take it with a pinch of salt.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Tories were well over 80% IIRC

    MaxPB said:

    Higher dissatisfaction among Tory voters but overall +3, the likes of surbiton and other Labour voters happy with Dave on PB. I'm not sure about you guys, but it doesn't seem like a sustainable situation for Dave or the party at the moment, something has to give.

    71% of Tory voters are still satisfied with him, is all relative.

    Ignore the noisy minority
    Although it's pretty usual to have high ratings among party supporters as there's a fairly high correlation between moving to disapprove of a party leader and moving to not support that party. 71% isn't all that high by historic standards, is it?
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    MaxPB said:

    Higher dissatisfaction among Tory voters but overall +3, the likes of surbiton and other Labour voters happy with Dave on PB. I'm not sure about you guys, but it doesn't seem like a sustainable situation for Dave or the party at the moment, something has to give.

    71% of Tory voters are still satisfied with him, is all relative.

    Ignore the noisy minority
    Although it's pretty usual to have high ratings among party supporters as there's a fairly high correlation between moving to disapprove of a party leader and moving to not support that party. 71% isn't all that high by historic standards, is it?
    Not looked at it in detail, but in April 2012, when these last elections were fought, Cameron's absolute satisfaction rating amongst Tory voters was 68% and his net rating was +39%

    So on both scores, he's doing better today than he was in April 2012.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,955
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:


    ...
    - widening current account deficit?
    Yes. Excluding the effects of cheaper oil, the current account deficit is amongst the worst in the world.

    For the UK, yes, but not in the EU as a whole, of course.
    Without the monetary stimulus programme from the ECB it is questionable whether there would be very much growth at all outside of Spain and possibly Germany.
    (And Ireland)
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Trump currently on 49% of delegates, tomorrow could take him over 50%.

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/republican_delegate_count.html
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    Ed Miliband's net rating in April 2011 was plus 1, Cameron's was minus 14

    yes, I think there is a certain amount of comparing like with like that needs to be done.

    How does Cameron compare to other prime ministers, how does Corbyn compare to Ed M at a similar juncture.
    In June 1984, one year after her second election victory, Lady Thatcher net ratings were minus 15.

    So Cameron's doing better than Thatcher at a similar point.
    I found some pictures that would put this into context. Plus a few comments. Probably enough to write a caveat emptor thread starter, if you wanted to.
    Already working on it thank you.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    And 95% don't know who he is
    Pulpstar said:

    50% of the population are not sure if Tim Farron is doing a good job.

    And the other 50% don't know.

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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    rcs1000 said:

    The Eurozone, despite all its other faults, runs a massive current account surplus.

    Really?

    Here you go: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/euro-area/current-account

    Eurozone current account surplus came in at €11.1 billion in February of 2016 compared to an upwardly revised €8.3 billion surplus in the previous month. The surpluses in balances of goods (to €25.5 billion from €13.6 billion in January), services (to €3.1 billion from €1.9 billion) and primary income (to €6.3 billion from €2.6 billion) widened while the secondary income deficit increased (to €-23.9 billion from €-9.9 billion). Current Account in the Euro Area averaged 2.93 EUR Billion from 1999 until 2016, reaching an all time high of 44.20 EUR Billion in December of 2015
    I'm no economist but that simply doesn't make sense. 11bn in a month? Come on, what's the catch?
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    The Eurozone, despite all its other faults, runs a massive current account surplus.

    Really?

    Yes, overall they do. Germany has a huge surplus, one that warrants EU action.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited April 2016
    Racism in action....that is the sports minister not the sports...

    South Africa's sports minister has banned four of the country's sport federations from bidding for major international tournaments after they failed to create enough opportunities for black players.

    Rugby, cricket, athletics and netball are the affected federations.

    The South African Rugby Union had announced it would bid for the 2023 Rugby World Cup by the June deadline.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/36130932
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    BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191

    Ed Miliband's net rating in April 2011 was plus 1, Cameron's was minus 14

    yes, I think there is a certain amount of comparing like with like that needs to be done.

    How does Cameron compare to other prime ministers, how does Corbyn compare to Ed M at a similar juncture.
    In June 1984, one year after her second election victory, Lady Thatcher net ratings were minus 15.

    So Cameron's doing better than Thatcher at a similar point.
    I found some pictures that would put this into context. Plus a few comments. Probably enough to write a caveat emptor thread starter, if you wanted to.
    Already working on it thank you.
    Does this go towards my citations on google scholar?
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Next month will be revealing.

    Well, unless you're Cameron, that is.

    The key thing to note is that they all start off quite positive. Only Blair and Cameron, to a lesser extent, have managed to battle gravity.

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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    Next month will be revealing.

    Well, unless you're Cameron, that is.

    The key thing to note is that they all start off quite positive. Only Blair and Cameron, to a lesser extent, have managed to battle gravity.

    His ratings will go up, I imagine. People like decisive leadership.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,955
    MaxPB said:

    The Eurozone, despite all its other faults, runs a massive current account surplus.

    Really?

    Yes, overall they do. Germany has a huge surplus, one that warrants EU action.
    If you want to look at current accounts by country (albeit for 2014 rather than 2015), then they are here: http://beta.data.worldbank.org/?indicators=BN.CAB.XOKA.GD.ZS

    Most European countries (except Norway) will have seen current account balances increase further in 2015, as the cost of importing oil, natural gas, steel and coal declined markedly in 2015.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Umm.

    Next month will be revealing.

    Well, unless you're Cameron, that is.

    The key thing to note is that they all start off quite positive. Only Blair and Cameron, to a lesser extent, have managed to battle gravity.

    His ratings will go up, I imagine. People like decisive leadership.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,378
    edited April 2016
    My rough and ready calculations.

    At this point of the electoral cycle, the Tories and Cameron are doing better/on a par with parties/leaders that went onto win the next election.

    Labour and Corbyn aren't doing well enough to suggest they will win the next election.

    As for own party voters' support, the data only goes back to 1994, unlike the other data that goes back to the 70s, so less scope for analysis.

    Cameron's doing better than Major post 1992, worse than Blair upto 2003, and better than Blair post 2003
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    Ed Miliband's net rating in April 2011 was plus 1, Cameron's was minus 14

    yes, I think there is a certain amount of comparing like with like that needs to be done.

    How does Cameron compare to other prime ministers, how does Corbyn compare to Ed M at a similar juncture.
    In June 1984, one year after her second election victory, Lady Thatcher net ratings were minus 15.

    So Cameron's doing better than Thatcher at a similar point.
    I found some pictures that would put this into context. Plus a few comments. Probably enough to write a caveat emptor thread starter, if you wanted to.
    Already working on it thank you.
    Does this go towards my citations on google scholar?
    Well I had already started on it, but I'll give you a hat tip
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,054
    Given how fulsome Obama was about Merkel over the weekend, I'm surprised no-one has alleged that by intervening so strongly in the UK referendum he is doing her bidding, rather than Downing Street's.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,955
    weejonnie said:

    The Eurozone, despite all its other faults, runs a massive current account surplus.

    Really?

    It wouldn't surprise me - they have a massive surplus in trade with the UK for instance, and they are very protectionist.
    There's all the data on tariff you could possibly want here: http://tariffdata.wto.org/ReportersAndProducts.aspx

    By and large, the US and the EU have very similar average tariff levels, which are typically just below WTO requirements.

    China, India, Japan, and much of Africa and South America are very protectionist, and have quite a lot of tariffs well above WTO levels.

    Singapore and a few other places have very low tariffs.

    The place where the EU shows very clear protectionist tendencies is in agriculture. In goods and services it's actually got a very open economy.
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    May's position appears nonsensical, but I do think she's far likelier than Boris to get the top job.

    I would take Osborne over May, he's a sneering primadonna, she is dangerous.

  • Options
    Cameron's pom pom supporters messrs Nabavi and TSE have written that Cameron's ratings are improving.... Incredible.
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Given how fulsome Obama was about Merkel over the weekend, I'm surprised no-one has alleged that by intervening so strongly in the UK referendum he is doing her bidding, rather than Downing Street's.

    He wants her to sign TTIP with 30,000 Germans protesting in the streets, of course he is buttering her up.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    Cameron's pom pom supporters messrs Nabavi and TSE have written that Cameron's ratings are improving.... Incredible.

    Which bit of '+3% swing from March 2016' did you have difficulty with?
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:


    ...
    - widening current account deficit?
    Yes. Excluding the effects of cheaper oil, the current account deficit is amongst the worst in the world.

    For the UK, yes, but not in the EU as a whole, of course.
    Without the monetary stimulus programme from the ECB it is questionable whether there would be very much growth at all outside of Spain and possibly Germany.
    True, but that's partly because they started much later than the UK and US, and also partly because of the relative slowdown in China.

    Having said that, it's also the case that the policy mix within individual EU states hasn't been good. France is probably the worst - bleedin' obvious what they need to do, and equally obvious that they are not going to do it anytime soon.

    Still, all of that lot is 'in the price' in terms of growth looking forward; with the ECB doing what it can within the political constraints, and the lower oil price providing an effect like a tax-cut, I don't expect an EU recession in the next couple of years (unless a Leave result triggers one).
    France seems unlikely to reform any time in the near future, even a new president isn't going to change anything in France, they are all stuck with the same basic issues over labour and state spending. If anything the rise of MLP will make things worse in France as the right wing will look to ape her protectionist policies.

    What is difficult to predict is when the ECB stimulus stops being effective, as we saw with the Fed, eventually the bond buying programme becomes ineffective for supporting growth. The other big question is what happens to the Eurozone once interest rates start to go up over here and when the Fed resumes raising US interest rates, how much money is going to pile into such low yield assets in the EMU when easier gains are able to be had in stable countries like the US and UK?
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    MaxPB said:

    Higher dissatisfaction among Tory voters but overall +3, the likes of surbiton and other Labour voters happy with Dave on PB. I'm not sure about you guys, but it doesn't seem like a sustainable situation for Dave or the party at the moment, something has to give.

    71% of Tory voters are still satisfied with him, is all relative.

    Ignore the noisy minority
    Although it's pretty usual to have high ratings among party supporters as there's a fairly high correlation between moving to disapprove of a party leader and moving to not support that party. 71% isn't all that high by historic standards, is it?
    Not looked at it in detail, but in April 2012, when these last elections were fought, Cameron's absolute satisfaction rating amongst Tory voters was 68% and his net rating was +39%

    So on both scores, he's doing better today than he was in April 2012.
    April 2012 was pretty much the low point for the Tories during the last parliament IIRC? Right after the omnishambles Budget and with Labour on about a 10-point lead?
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    David Cameron is doing something with his political capital at present. The other leaders are not.

    In the cases of Tim Farron and Jeremy Corbyn, that's reasonable enough. For Nigel Farage, that's incomprehensible.
  • Options

    MaxPB said:

    Higher dissatisfaction among Tory voters but overall +3, the likes of surbiton and other Labour voters happy with Dave on PB. I'm not sure about you guys, but it doesn't seem like a sustainable situation for Dave or the party at the moment, something has to give.

    71% of Tory voters are still satisfied with him, is all relative.

    Ignore the noisy minority
    Although it's pretty usual to have high ratings among party supporters as there's a fairly high correlation between moving to disapprove of a party leader and moving to not support that party. 71% isn't all that high by historic standards, is it?
    Not looked at it in detail, but in April 2012, when these last elections were fought, Cameron's absolute satisfaction rating amongst Tory voters was 68% and his net rating was +39%

    So on both scores, he's doing better today than he was in April 2012.
    April 2012 was pretty much the low point for the Tories during the last parliament IIRC? Right after the omnishambles Budget and with Labour on about a 10-point lead?
    and Ed Miliband instead of Corbyn.
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    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    edited April 2016
    AndyJS said:

    Trump currently on 49% of delegates, tomorrow could take him over 50%.

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/republican_delegate_count.html

    The easiest page to look at is http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/election-2016/delegate-targets/

    The key factor is California on June 7th - recent polls have swung towards Trump But if you want some fun try http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/election-2016/can-you-get-trump-to-1237/

    If Trump gets more than 97 delegates tomorrow he is ahead of projections.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,955
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:


    ...
    - widening current account deficit?
    Yes. Excluding the effects of cheaper oil, the current account deficit is amongst the worst in the world.

    For the UK, yes, but not in the EU as a whole, of course.
    Without the monetary stimulus programme from the ECB it is questionable whether there would be very much growth at all outside of Spain and possibly Germany.
    True, but that's partly because they started much later than the UK and US, and also partly because of the relative slowdown in China.

    Having said that, it's also the case that the policy mix within individual EU states hasn't been good. France is probably the worst - bleedin' obvious what they need to do, and equally obvious that they are not going to do it anytime soon.

    Still, all of that lot is 'in the price' in terms of growth looking forward; with the ECB doing what it can within the political constraints, and the lower oil price providing an effect like a tax-cut, I don't expect an EU recession in the next couple of years (unless a Leave result triggers one).
    France seems unlikely to reform any time in the near future, even a new president isn't going to change anything in France, they are all stuck with the same basic issues over labour and state spending. If anything the rise of MLP will make things worse in France as the right wing will look to ape her protectionist policies.

    What is difficult to predict is when the ECB stimulus stops being effective, as we saw with the Fed, eventually the bond buying programme becomes ineffective for supporting growth. The other big question is what happens to the Eurozone once interest rates start to go up over here and when the Fed resumes raising US interest rates, how much money is going to pile into such low yield assets in the EMU when easier gains are able to be had in stable countries like the US and UK?
    Although there is a natural self balancing thing working there: rising rates in the US and the UK will tend to raise the dollar and sterling versus the Euro. This will make holidays in the Mediterranean much cheaper, and lower the cost of goods produced in the the Eurozone rather than in the UK and the US.

    Of course, against that, we have a nasty current account issue, and need a weaker currency generally. The question is which way the currency will go in the event of rising interest rates given the liabilities side of the picture.
  • Options

    MaxPB said:

    Higher dissatisfaction among Tory voters but overall +3, the likes of surbiton and other Labour voters happy with Dave on PB. I'm not sure about you guys, but it doesn't seem like a sustainable situation for Dave or the party at the moment, something has to give.

    71% of Tory voters are still satisfied with him, is all relative.

    Ignore the noisy minority
    Although it's pretty usual to have high ratings among party supporters as there's a fairly high correlation between moving to disapprove of a party leader and moving to not support that party. 71% isn't all that high by historic standards, is it?
    Not looked at it in detail, but in April 2012, when these last elections were fought, Cameron's absolute satisfaction rating amongst Tory voters was 68% and his net rating was +39%

    So on both scores, he's doing better today than he was in April 2012.
    April 2012 was pretty much the low point for the Tories during the last parliament IIRC? Right after the omnishambles Budget and with Labour on about a 10-point lead?
    Yup.

    Though some of us remember when David Cameron had a MINUS net rating with Tory voters.
  • Options

    Cameron's pom pom supporters messrs Nabavi and TSE have written that Cameron's ratings are improving.... Incredible.

    Which bit of '+3% swing from March 2016' did you have difficulty with?
    How about this?

    Mike Smithson ‎@MSmithsonPB
    "Cameron has his 2nd worst month ever amongst CON voters in the Ipsos-MORI leader ratings"
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    My rough and ready calculations.

    At this point of the electoral cycle, the Tories and Cameron are doing better/on a par with parties/leaders that went onto win the next election.

    Labour and Corbyn aren't doing well enough to suggest they will win the next election.

    As for own party voters' support, the data only goes back to 1994, unlike the other data that goes back to the 70s, so less scope for analysis.

    Cameron's doing better than Major post 1992, worse than Blair upto 2003, and better than Blair post 2003

    The problem for the Tories is if Labour dump Corbyn and put a credible leader in place, small chance at the moment, but if we were to put up Osborne as leader then it becomes a distinct possibility that we lose 2020, one of the reasons we need a close result is to ensure Osborne can't get his hands on the leadership.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,917

    David Cameron is doing something with his political capital at present. The other leaders are not.

    In the cases of Tim Farron and Jeremy Corbyn, that's reasonable enough. For Nigel Farage, that's incomprehensible.

    Farage should be doing better I think - Le Pen in France, Trump in the USA (analagous in a fair few ways I think) and now Hofer in Austria have all outperformed Farage imo.
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Cameron's pom pom supporters messrs Nabavi and TSE have written that Cameron's ratings are improving.... Incredible.

    Which bit of '+3% swing from March 2016' did you have difficulty with?
    The bit where a 3% swing is inside the margin of error for a sample of this size :D
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,829

    Any ratings for the 'Near Perfect Chancellor'?

    They'd probably be a little embarrassing.
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    TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited April 2016

    David Cameron is doing something with his political capital at present. The other leaders are not. ....

    Yes but for REMAIN to win based on a strategy of having Cameron front it, they really need a better than 2 out of 3 votes from those who do not vote Conservative or UKIP.
    70% say that Cameron is out of touch with ordinary people.
    63% disagree that Cameron has sound judgement.

  • Options
    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    rcs1000 said:

    weejonnie said:

    The Eurozone, despite all its other faults, runs a massive current account surplus.

    Really?

    It wouldn't surprise me - they have a massive surplus in trade with the UK for instance, and they are very protectionist.
    There's all the data on tariff you could possibly want here: http://tariffdata.wto.org/ReportersAndProducts.aspx

    By and large, the US and the EU have very similar average tariff levels, which are typically just below WTO requirements.

    China, India, Japan, and much of Africa and South America are very protectionist, and have quite a lot of tariffs well above WTO levels.

    Singapore and a few other places have very low tariffs.

    The place where the EU shows very clear protectionist tendencies is in agriculture. In goods and services it's actually got a very open economy.
    As measured by tariffs, yes. But the main protectionist instruments are not tariffs, but NTBs - the effect of which is considerable and not just in agriculture.
  • Options
    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    edited April 2016
    I see there are predictions for labour net seat losses in May out there, is there likely to be a spread bet market in these?
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited April 2016

    Cameron's pom pom supporters messrs Nabavi and TSE have written that Cameron's ratings are improving.... Incredible.

    Which bit of '+3% swing from March 2016' did you have difficulty with?
    How about this?

    Mike Smithson ‎@MSmithsonPB
    "Cameron has his 2nd worst month ever amongst CON voters in the Ipsos-MORI leader ratings"
    You are a buffoon, aren't you? Calling me a 'pom pom' supporter, when all I did was point out a minor mistake in Mike's headline - Cameron's ratings have actually improved a smidgen in the last month.

    As it happens, as I've already said on previous occasions, I wouldn't take much notice of leader ratings or voting-intention polls at the moment anyway. We need to wait until the political dust-storm of the referendum campaign has finished, and let things settle down.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,955
    runnymede said:

    rcs1000 said:

    weejonnie said:

    The Eurozone, despite all its other faults, runs a massive current account surplus.

    Really?

    It wouldn't surprise me - they have a massive surplus in trade with the UK for instance, and they are very protectionist.
    There's all the data on tariff you could possibly want here: http://tariffdata.wto.org/ReportersAndProducts.aspx

    By and large, the US and the EU have very similar average tariff levels, which are typically just below WTO requirements.

    China, India, Japan, and much of Africa and South America are very protectionist, and have quite a lot of tariffs well above WTO levels.

    Singapore and a few other places have very low tariffs.

    The place where the EU shows very clear protectionist tendencies is in agriculture. In goods and services it's actually got a very open economy.
    As measured by tariffs, yes. But the main protectionist instruments are not tariffs, but NTBs - the effect of which is considerable and not just in agriculture.
    Which are the specific NTBs that you are thinking of?

    When I last read through the Doha round minutes (https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/dda_e/dda_e.htm) there were very few outstanding issues with EU NTBs. (And, for that matter, there weren't that many with the US.)

    Almost all the NTB issues related to India, China and Japan,
  • Options

    Cameron's pom pom supporters messrs Nabavi and TSE have written that Cameron's ratings are improving.... Incredible.

    Which bit of '+3% swing from March 2016' did you have difficulty with?
    How about this?

    Mike Smithson ‎@MSmithsonPB
    "Cameron has his 2nd worst month ever amongst CON voters in the Ipsos-MORI leader ratings"
    Mike's wrong on that front, unfortunately.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:


    ...
    - widening current account deficit?
    Yes. Excluding the effects of cheaper oil, the current account deficit is amongst the worst in the world.

    For the UK, yes, but not in the EU as a whole, of course.
    Without the monetary stimulus programme from the ECB it is questionable whether there would be very much growth at all outside of Spain and possibly Germany.
    True, but that's partly because they started much later than the UK and US, and also partly because of the relative slowdown in China.

    Having said that, it's also the case that the policy mix within individual EU states hasn't been good. France is probably the worst - bleedin' obvious what they need to do, and equally obvious that they are not going to do it anytime soon.

    Still, all of that lot is 'in the price' in terms of growth looking forward; with the ECB doing what it can within the political constraints, and the lower oil price providing an effect like a tax-cut, I don't expect an EU recession in the next couple of years (unless a Leave result triggers one).
    France seems unlikely to reform any time in the near future, even a new president isn't going to change anything in France, they are all stuck with the same basic issues over labour and state spending. If anything the rise of MLP will make things worse in France as the right wing will look to ape her protectionist policies.

    What is difficult to predict is when the ECB stimulus stops being effective, as we saw with the Fed, eventually the bond buying programme becomes ineffective for supporting growth. The other big question is what happens to the Eurozone once interest rates start to go up over here and when the Fed resumes raising US interest rates, how much money is going to pile into such low yield assets in the EMU when easier gains are able to be had in stable countries like the US and UK?
    Although there is a natural self balancing thing working there: rising rates in the US and the UK will tend to raise the dollar and sterling versus the Euro. This will make holidays in the Mediterranean much cheaper, and lower the cost of goods produced in the the Eurozone rather than in the UK and the US.

    Of course, against that, we have a nasty current account issue, and need a weaker currency generally. The question is which way the currency will go in the event of rising interest rates given the liabilities side of the picture.
    I think our currency stays low whatever the weather at the moment.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,829
    Cameron's ratings next month will likely depend on whether the media renew their attacks on the government.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    Corbyn has improved his performances, but I still regard him as fundamentally unsuitable for the role, but it would appear people are warming to him somewhat.
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    Sean_F said:

    Cameron's ratings next month will likely depend on whether the media renew their attacks on the government.

    Next month is going to be a weird one for the pollsters, especially Ipsos Mori.

    We're going to deal with the aftermath of the locals/devolved/London Mayoral elections, which London apart might be very sub optimal for Jeremy Corbyn and Labour, and the focus shifts onto Labour, you'll expect calls for a leadership challenge.

    But equally we might jump straight into the EURef campaign.
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Sean_F said:

    Cameron's ratings next month will likely depend on whether the media renew their attacks on the government.

    Hope so,sooner we get rid of the fake PM,the better.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    SkyData
    Will Obama make you more or less likely to vote Remain?
    Age 18-34:
    26% more (-14), 18% less (+9)
    Age 55+:
    16% more (+1), 41% less (+15)
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    SkyData
    Will Obama make you more or less likely to vote Remain?
    Age 18-34:
    26% more (-14), 18% less (+9)
    Age 55+:
    16% more (+1), 41% less (+15)

    What are the figures in brackets?
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    SkyData
    Will Obama make you more or less likely to vote Remain?
    Age 18-34:
    26% more (-14), 18% less (+9)
    Age 55+:
    16% more (+1), 41% less (+15)

    Obama should have taken Liam Fox's advice to stay out of the debate.
This discussion has been closed.