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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » PB/Polling Matters TV show June 15th: The EU Referendum spe

SystemSystem Posts: 11,017
edited June 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » PB/Polling Matters TV show June 15th: The EU Referendum special

This week is Keiran Pedley is joined by Matthew Shaddick of Ladbrokes, Professor Matthew Goodwin of the University of Kent, and Adam Ludlow of ComRes. The topics under discussion were the EU referendum polling, betting odds, turnout, immigration vs the economy, The Sun endorsement, and the implications for Cameron and Corbyn.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    RoyalBlue said:

    I am in suburban Bedfordshire and am puzzled by the caution of SeanT and others whose opinions I respect. My bell weather voters are going Leave and when I look at the indications from the Stokes and Nottinghamshire towns and villages I struggle to see how it will even be that close.

    Reasons for pessimism:

    1) Expats

    2) Northern Ireland

    3) Gibraltar

    4) People bottling it on the day

    5) Undecideds plumping for what they know

    6) Unusually high youth turnout

    7) Uncertainty whether previous working-class non-voters make it to the polls

    8) The Remain reservoirs of inner London and Scotland, where they will score 60-80%

    Apart from that, everything's fine :smile:
    Of those 4-5 and 7 look the most critical. If Leave continue to get leads like they have in recent days, I think they will be safe.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,942
    Second, like remain.
  • Options
    Third ? like spoiled ballot papers
  • Options
    Anecdotes from Hants (FPT)
    1. Have just finished delivering 240 leaflets for LEAVE tonight and also handed over 350 to a new delivery volunteer that attended a weekend stall. No sign of REMAIN leaflets in a solid LD area.
    2. Relative in 80s lifelong Labour voted LEAVE - without prompting.
    3. Trades people grabbing leaflets out of hands and saying thanks. C1s and C2s are going LEAVE.
    4. In one last bastion of the Lib Dems they are only delivering "thank you for voting us in at the local election" leaflets.... wtf - dont they know there is a referendum on! These LD cllrs are there for the £10k + expenses pa (some are on £20k) so no reason to upset LEAVE voters.
    5. Only correx boards for LEAVE are up in areas that only have LD councillors....
  • Options
    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223

    I am in suburban Bedfordshire and am puzzled by the caution of SeanT and others whose opinions I respect. My bell weather voters are going Leave and when I look at the indications from the Stokes and Nottinghamshire towns and villages I struggle to see how it will even be that close.

    Reasons for pessimism:

    1) Expats

    2) Northern Ireland

    3) Gibraltar

    4) People bottling it on the day

    5) Undecideds plumping for what they know

    6) Unusually high youth turnout

    7) Uncertainty whether previous working-class non-voters make it to the polls

    8) The Remain reservoirs of inner London and Scotland, where they will score 60-80%

    9) A last minute Vow

    Apart from that, everything's fine :smile:
  • Options
    tysontyson Posts: 6,050
    Jobajob- I was trying to reply to your holiday post...one handed, hair drier in the other and the footie on too. Sardinia is breathtakingly beautiful- but August is too busy for us. But for scenery, sea, sun, food, wine, people, light, colours, and just breathtaking unspoilt seaside, it is stunning. The south particularly- Chia. We go there every year. I cannot think of any other seaside resort I'd rather see. I've never been to Sicily so cannot comment. Beautiful Italian mainland seaside resorts are too full.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    FPT

    Sean_F said:

    hunchman said:

    I must congratulate bob geldof on contributing to the leave campaign today. That moment perfectly encapsulated just how out of touch our ruling class is with the ordinary people of Britain.

    It's quite something for a legend of the punk revolution, general agitator and Irishman to boot to be classed as a ruler. But hey, whatever fits your meme.

    And yes he's always been a bit of a knob.
    Now, he's just a sad old sack.
    In Organising Live/Band Aid he demonstrably did more good than most if not all of us will do in our lifetime. It was the original lets not forget. So I'll give him a pass.
    But in wanting to Remain in the EU with its Common Agricultural Policy that does more damage to African farmers than all the good Band Aid ever did he is helping undo that legacy.

    Scrapping the CAP and letting Africa trade with us on the same terms as Europe can will do more good than Band Aid ever could.
    If you say so Philip, although I don't think Bozo and his pet lizard have African farmers in mind in making their pitch for out.
    Whether they do or don't (I do) they have made that argument before.

    Either way are you happy to keep Africa in penury with massive tariffs killing their development because a leaver may have impure thoughts?
  • Options

    "The European Union is getting closer to granting Turks visa-free travel to Europe, but talks on this will continue until at least October, European Council President Donald Tusk said in an interview with German newspaper Bild published on Monday."
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-turkey-visas-idUSKCN0YZ0LK
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,317

    Anecdotes from Hants (FPT)
    1. Have just finished delivering 240 leaflets for LEAVE tonight and also handed over 350 to a new delivery volunteer that attended a weekend stall. No sign of REMAIN leaflets in a solid LD area.
    2. Relative in 80s lifelong Labour voted LEAVE - without prompting.
    3. Trades people grabbing leaflets out of hands and saying thanks. C1s and C2s are going LEAVE.
    4. In one last bastion of the Lib Dems they are only delivering "thank you for voting us in at the local election" leaflets.... wtf - dont they know there is a referendum on! These LD cllrs are there for the £10k + expenses pa (some are on £20k) so no reason to upset LEAVE voters.
    5. Only correx boards for LEAVE are up in areas that only have LD councillors....

    Where is that in Hants?
  • Options
    ConcanvasserConcanvasser Posts: 165
    ROYAL blue and kle4 Agreed sticking with what you know has traditionally been a potent electoral weapon. In the case of the EU though all is change and nothing is really a known. There is no status quo option. Much less so than the Scots indy referendum.
    I am an infrequent contributor to these pages, popping up when I am electorally active campaiging and lurking quietly at other times. My two pennies worth is that the split to leave in the Con and Lab votes in England combined with higher differential turnout for older Leave voters will see Leave comfortably home. I promise to apologise to all concerned on the 24th if I am wrong.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,378
    The chiefs of some of Britain’s biggest employers have threatened legal action against the official EU Leave campaign, after it included their corporate logos in a taxpayer-funded referendum leaflet implying that they supported Brexit.

    Top executives of General Electric, Unilever and Airbus wrote to Vote Leave claiming that it had misused public funds and used the logos “for propaganda purposes” when, in fact, they supported Britain’s EU membership.

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d1e83d3e-3309-11e6-ad39-3fee5ffe5b5b.html#axzz4BgMTTglj
  • Options
    Interesting that ComRes say that their weighting has social class dominating over age in the turnout assumptions.

    Also "British adults are split as to what is going to happen in the vote next week. Equal proportions say they think it is likely (47%) and unlikely (49%) that Britain will leave the EU. "
    This intelligence of crowds is one of the best for LEAVE I can recall.
  • Options
    maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,391


    "The European Union is getting closer to granting Turks visa-free travel to Europe, but talks on this will continue until at least October, European Council President Donald Tusk said in an interview with German newspaper Bild published on Monday."
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-turkey-visas-idUSKCN0YZ0LK

    Relatively predictable. If a veto, opt out or vote prevents them formally moving forward with their goals, they achieve them in practice whilst scrupulously avoiding calling it what it is.

    We don't have a European Constitution and Turkey won't join the EU in our lifetimes.
  • Options
    TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited June 2016
    "95% of academics have predicted a REMAIN win" Goodwin
    :astonished:
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,942

    Anecdotes from Hants (FPT)
    1. Have just finished delivering 240 leaflets for LEAVE tonight and also handed over 350 to a new delivery volunteer that attended a weekend stall. No sign of REMAIN leaflets in a solid LD area.
    2. Relative in 80s lifelong Labour voted LEAVE - without prompting.
    3. Trades people grabbing leaflets out of hands and saying thanks. C1s and C2s are going LEAVE.
    4. In one last bastion of the Lib Dems they are only delivering "thank you for voting us in at the local election" leaflets.... wtf - dont they know there is a referendum on! These LD cllrs are there for the £10k + expenses pa (some are on £20k) so no reason to upset LEAVE voters.
    5. Only correx boards for LEAVE are up in areas that only have LD councillors....

    LD makes sense.

    Michael Fallon's brother has been very quiet in recent weeks! ;-)
  • Options
    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869

    Anecdotes from Hants (FPT)
    1. Have just finished delivering 240 leaflets for LEAVE tonight and also handed over 350 to a new delivery volunteer that attended a weekend stall. No sign of REMAIN leaflets in a solid LD area.
    2. Relative in 80s lifelong Labour voted LEAVE - without prompting.
    3. Trades people grabbing leaflets out of hands and saying thanks. C1s and C2s are going LEAVE.
    4. In one last bastion of the Lib Dems they are only delivering "thank you for voting us in at the local election" leaflets.... wtf - dont they know there is a referendum on! These LD cllrs are there for the £10k + expenses pa (some are on £20k) so no reason to upset LEAVE voters.
    5. Only correx boards for LEAVE are up in areas that only have LD councillors....

    Please, what are correx boards?
  • Options

    Anecdotes from Hants (FPT)
    1. Have just finished delivering 240 leaflets for LEAVE tonight and also handed over 350 to a new delivery volunteer that attended a weekend stall. No sign of REMAIN leaflets in a solid LD area.
    2. Relative in 80s lifelong Labour voted LEAVE - without prompting.
    3. Trades people grabbing leaflets out of hands and saying thanks. C1s and C2s are going LEAVE.
    4. In one last bastion of the Lib Dems they are only delivering "thank you for voting us in at the local election" leaflets.... wtf - dont they know there is a referendum on! These LD cllrs are there for the £10k + expenses pa (some are on £20k) so no reason to upset LEAVE voters.
    5. Only correx boards for LEAVE are up in areas that only have LD councillors....

    Where is that in Hants?
    Southern Hants
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,317

    Anecdotes from Hants (FPT)
    1. Have just finished delivering 240 leaflets for LEAVE tonight and also handed over 350 to a new delivery volunteer that attended a weekend stall. No sign of REMAIN leaflets in a solid LD area.
    2. Relative in 80s lifelong Labour voted LEAVE - without prompting.
    3. Trades people grabbing leaflets out of hands and saying thanks. C1s and C2s are going LEAVE.
    4. In one last bastion of the Lib Dems they are only delivering "thank you for voting us in at the local election" leaflets.... wtf - dont they know there is a referendum on! These LD cllrs are there for the £10k + expenses pa (some are on £20k) so no reason to upset LEAVE voters.
    5. Only correx boards for LEAVE are up in areas that only have LD councillors....

    Where is that in Hants?
    Southern Hants
    Eastleigh?
  • Options
    tysontyson Posts: 6,050
    OMG....if anyone has been following my red wine travails stasera, my wife has just returned to find me with the hair drier and the dog towels mopping up the mixture of red wine (my fault), white wine, salt, floor moisteners, soap and shed loads of water and soap from our expensive beige sofa

    And, in sheer panic, and for reasons of self protection, I told her the dog...the cutest animal possible, had vomited on the sofa. The mess doesn't even have a hint of red wine in it anymore.

    And guess what, my wife, believes me. And she feels sorry for me.

    All's well that ends well. Except I have become a lesser person.
  • Options
    AnneJGP said:

    Anecdotes from Hants (FPT)
    1. Have just finished delivering 240 leaflets for LEAVE tonight and also handed over 350 to a new delivery volunteer that attended a weekend stall. No sign of REMAIN leaflets in a solid LD area.
    2. Relative in 80s lifelong Labour voted LEAVE - without prompting.
    3. Trades people grabbing leaflets out of hands and saying thanks. C1s and C2s are going LEAVE.
    4. In one last bastion of the Lib Dems they are only delivering "thank you for voting us in at the local election" leaflets.... wtf - dont they know there is a referendum on! These LD cllrs are there for the £10k + expenses pa (some are on £20k) so no reason to upset LEAVE voters.
    5. Only correx boards for LEAVE are up in areas that only have LD councillors....

    Please, what are correx boards?
    They are a plastic weather proof board of various sizes. Usually attached to a wooden stake.
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,003

    FPT

    Sean_F said:

    hunchman said:

    I must congratulate bob geldof on contributing to the leave campaign today. That moment perfectly encapsulated just how out of touch our ruling class is with the ordinary people of Britain.

    It's quite something for a legend of the punk revolution, general agitator and Irishman to boot to be classed as a ruler. But hey, whatever fits your meme.

    And yes he's always been a bit of a knob.
    Now, he's just a sad old sack.
    In Organising Live/Band Aid he demonstrably did more good than most if not all of us will do in our lifetime. It was the original lets not forget. So I'll give him a pass.
    But in wanting to Remain in the EU with its Common Agricultural Policy that does more damage to African farmers than all the good Band Aid ever did he is helping undo that legacy.

    Scrapping the CAP and letting Africa trade with us on the same terms as Europe can will do more good than Band Aid ever could.
    If you say so Philip, although I don't think Bozo and his pet lizard have African farmers in mind in making their pitch for out.
    Whether they do or don't (I do) they have made that argument before.

    Either way are you happy to keep Africa in penury with massive tariffs killing their development because a leaver may have impure thoughts?
    Which EU tariffs are impeding African economic development?
  • Options
    Mortimer said:

    Anecdotes from Hants (FPT)
    1. Have just finished delivering 240 leaflets for LEAVE tonight and also handed over 350 to a new delivery volunteer that attended a weekend stall. No sign of REMAIN leaflets in a solid LD area.
    2. Relative in 80s lifelong Labour voted LEAVE - without prompting.
    3. Trades people grabbing leaflets out of hands and saying thanks. C1s and C2s are going LEAVE.
    4. In one last bastion of the Lib Dems they are only delivering "thank you for voting us in at the local election" leaflets.... wtf - dont they know there is a referendum on! These LD cllrs are there for the £10k + expenses pa (some are on £20k) so no reason to upset LEAVE voters.
    5. Only correx boards for LEAVE are up in areas that only have LD councillors....

    LD makes sense.

    Michael Fallon's brother has been very quiet in recent weeks! ;-)
    He was asking a very very long question today zzzzzzzzz
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,402
    tyson said:

    OMG....if anyone has been following my red wine travails stasera, my wife has just returned to find me with the hair drier and the dog towels mopping up the mixture of red wine (my fault), white wine, salt, floor moisteners, soap and shed loads of water and soap from our expensive beige sofa

    And, in sheer panic, and for reasons of self protection, I told her the dog...the cutest animal possible, had vomited on the sofa. The mess doesn't even have a hint of red wine in it anymore.

    And guess what, my wife, believes me. And she feels sorry for me.

    All's well that ends well. Except I have become a lesser person.

    I'm surprised you didn't tell you it was some passing VIBRANT ITALIANS. Surely forgiveness would have been automatic?
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    tyson said:

    OMG....if anyone has been following my red wine travails stasera, my wife has just returned to find me with the hair drier and the dog towels mopping up the mixture of red wine (my fault), white wine, salt, floor moisteners, soap and shed loads of water and soap from our expensive beige sofa

    And, in sheer panic, and for reasons of self protection, I told her the dog...the cutest animal possible, had vomited on the sofa. The mess doesn't even have a hint of red wine in it anymore.

    And guess what, my wife, believes me. And she feels sorry for me.

    All's well that ends well. Except I have become a lesser person.

    At this rate you'll be voting Leave in a few days
    ..

    :wink:
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    EPG said:

    FPT

    Sean_F said:

    hunchman said:

    I must congratulate bob geldof on contributing to the leave campaign today. That moment perfectly encapsulated just how out of touch our ruling class is with the ordinary people of Britain.

    It's quite something for a legend of the punk revolution, general agitator and Irishman to boot to be classed as a ruler. But hey, whatever fits your meme.

    And yes he's always been a bit of a knob.
    Now, he's just a sad old sack.
    In Organising Live/Band Aid he demonstrably did more good than most if not all of us will do in our lifetime. It was the original lets not forget. So I'll give him a pass.
    But in wanting to Remain in the EU with its Common Agricultural Policy that does more damage to African farmers than all the good Band Aid ever did he is helping undo that legacy.

    Scrapping the CAP and letting Africa trade with us on the same terms as Europe can will do more good than Band Aid ever could.
    If you say so Philip, although I don't think Bozo and his pet lizard have African farmers in mind in making their pitch for out.
    Whether they do or don't (I do) they have made that argument before.

    Either way are you happy to keep Africa in penury with massive tariffs killing their development because a leaver may have impure thoughts?
    Which EU tariffs are impeding African economic development?
    Indeed it is the Africans (particularly those with sticky fingers and lucrative jobs in customs!) That are objecting to the abolition of tariffs between EU and africa.

    http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-regions/development/economic-partnerships/index_en.htm
  • Options
    I note that the Comres numbers are based on two key factors.

    1. A a very large vote for AB to REMAIN vs LEAVE (56% vs 36%)
    2. C1s being almost 50/50.

    The above two are out of line with at least one recent pollster, sorry I cannot recall which.

    The AB number vs DE is almost 4:1!
    Also 2:1 split for past Labour voters REMAIN vs LEAVE. Not what some in Labour party are reporting, maybe helped if a large part of Labour LEAVE just do not vote.
  • Options
    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869

    AnneJGP said:

    Anecdotes from Hants (FPT)
    1. Have just finished delivering 240 leaflets for LEAVE tonight and also handed over 350 to a new delivery volunteer that attended a weekend stall. No sign of REMAIN leaflets in a solid LD area.
    2. Relative in 80s lifelong Labour voted LEAVE - without prompting.
    3. Trades people grabbing leaflets out of hands and saying thanks. C1s and C2s are going LEAVE.
    4. In one last bastion of the Lib Dems they are only delivering "thank you for voting us in at the local election" leaflets.... wtf - dont they know there is a referendum on! These LD cllrs are there for the £10k + expenses pa (some are on £20k) so no reason to upset LEAVE voters.
    5. Only correx boards for LEAVE are up in areas that only have LD councillors....

    Please, what are correx boards?
    They are a plastic weather proof board of various sizes. Usually attached to a wooden stake.
    Thank you. I thought it was a political term! Corrugated polypropylene, I find.
  • Options
    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    France!
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    Portugal seems to be well regarded by the travelling elite on PB - I think I may book my holidays for there.
  • Options
    tysontyson Posts: 6,050
    Oh no....France do it again.......
  • Options

    Anecdotes from Hants (FPT)
    1. Have just finished delivering 240 leaflets for LEAVE tonight and also handed over 350 to a new delivery volunteer that attended a weekend stall. No sign of REMAIN leaflets in a solid LD area.
    2. Relative in 80s lifelong Labour voted LEAVE - without prompting.
    3. Trades people grabbing leaflets out of hands and saying thanks. C1s and C2s are going LEAVE.
    4. In one last bastion of the Lib Dems they are only delivering "thank you for voting us in at the local election" leaflets.... wtf - dont they know there is a referendum on! These LD cllrs are there for the £10k + expenses pa (some are on £20k) so no reason to upset LEAVE voters.
    5. Only correx boards for LEAVE are up in areas that only have LD councillors....

    Where is that in Hants?
    Southern Hants
    Eastleigh?
    I would not want to be any more specific and deny to help narrow the options down. Happy to let sleeping dogs lie.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    kle4 said:

    Portugal seems to be well regarded by the travelling elite on PB

    Don't listen to experts :)
  • Options
    AnneJGP said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Anecdotes from Hants (FPT)
    1. Have just finished delivering 240 leaflets for LEAVE tonight and also handed over 350 to a new delivery volunteer that attended a weekend stall. No sign of REMAIN leaflets in a solid LD area.
    2. Relative in 80s lifelong Labour voted LEAVE - without prompting.
    3. Trades people grabbing leaflets out of hands and saying thanks. C1s and C2s are going LEAVE.
    4. In one last bastion of the Lib Dems they are only delivering "thank you for voting us in at the local election" leaflets.... wtf - dont they know there is a referendum on! These LD cllrs are there for the £10k + expenses pa (some are on £20k) so no reason to upset LEAVE voters.
    5. Only correx boards for LEAVE are up in areas that only have LD councillors....

    Please, what are correx boards?
    They are a plastic weather proof board of various sizes. Usually attached to a wooden stake.
    Thank you. I thought it was a political term! Corrugated polypropylene, I find.
    It is an essential part of a campaign. Need to plan sites months in advance.
  • Options
    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    SeanT said:

    tyson said:

    Jobajob- I was trying to reply to your holiday post...one handed, hair drier in the other and the footie on too. Sardinia is breathtakingly beautiful- but August is too busy for us. But for scenery, sea, sun, food, wine, people, light, colours, and just breathtaking unspoilt seaside, it is stunning. The south particularly- Chia. We go there every year. I cannot think of any other seaside resort I'd rather see. I've never been to Sicily so cannot comment. Beautiful Italian mainland seaside resorts are too full.

    I agree with Tyson here. The Italian seaside is best avoided altogether at August. EVERYWHERE is chocka - which is why I suggested somewhere inland like Molveno (which is fab, but you don't get the sea, just the lake)

    If you want cheap lovely Mediterranean-style seaside in August I'd go for Portugal; the Alentejo coast - the Costa Vicentina - north of Sagres, or the far eastern Algarve around Tavira, or maybe the remoter, southern coast of Crete. Dalmatia is increasingly crowded but there are lots of islands... yet the food is iffy.

    Sicily is grand but the beaches are pretty crap. Also unbearably hot in August.

    Portugal is yer man. Or one of the more obscure Italian lakes, ibid.



    Thanks Sean. Your food point about Croatia a worry.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    Scott_P said:

    kle4 said:

    Portugal seems to be well regarded by the travelling elite on PB

    Don't listen to experts :)
    Touche. Somalia it is.
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    edited June 2016

    I note that the Comres numbers are based on two key factors.

    1. A a very large vote for AB to REMAIN vs LEAVE (56% vs 36%)
    2. C1s being almost 50/50.

    The above two are out of line with at least one recent pollster, sorry I cannot recall which.

    The AB number vs DE is almost 4:1!
    Also 2:1 split for past Labour voters REMAIN vs LEAVE. Not what some in Labour party are reporting, maybe helped if a large part of Labour LEAVE just do not vote.

    ICM showed 69% C2 for Leave vs. 29% for remain. It had 7% leave lead. I think they are closer to 69% than 50% tbh.
  • Options
    ConcanvasserConcanvasser Posts: 165
    Glad to hear your bit of Hampshire is breaking well for Leave TCPoliticalBetting. Keep up the good work, nearly there.
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    'A former co-worker of Omar Mateen repeatedly warned the security company where he worked that Mateen was unhinged. Daniel Gilroy says the company did nothing and even told him, “We have to be careful because he’s a Muslim.”'
    http://hotair.com/archives/2016/06/15/former-co-worker-says-company-told-him-it-had-to-be-careful-because-mateen-was-muslim/
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    "As a lefty Brexiter, I don’t want to get into bed with the likes of Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage, but it’s a matter of principle – the EU is not a natural love match for the left”

    Giles Fraser comes out for Leave in the Guardian.

    http://tinyurl.com/jk7u4ro

    The Guardianistas are all worried about their ISAs if Leave win.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,054
    maaarsh said:


    "The European Union is getting closer to granting Turks visa-free travel to Europe, but talks on this will continue until at least October, European Council President Donald Tusk said in an interview with German newspaper Bild published on Monday."
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-turkey-visas-idUSKCN0YZ0LK

    Relatively predictable. If a veto, opt out or vote prevents them formally moving forward with their goals, they achieve them in practice whilst scrupulously avoiding calling it what it is.

    We don't have a European Constitution and Turkey won't join the EU in our lifetimes.
    I find it hard to tell whether people are enthusiastically pushing something they know to be propaganda or whether they are just confused.

    In what way is visa-free travel in any way synonymous with de facto membership or a step in that direction? Is the US effectively part of the EU because it has visa-free travel?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    Charles said:

    tyson said:

    OMG....if anyone has been following my red wine travails stasera, my wife has just returned to find me with the hair drier and the dog towels mopping up the mixture of red wine (my fault), white wine, salt, floor moisteners, soap and shed loads of water and soap from our expensive beige sofa

    And, in sheer panic, and for reasons of self protection, I told her the dog...the cutest animal possible, had vomited on the sofa. The mess doesn't even have a hint of red wine in it anymore.

    And guess what, my wife, believes me. And she feels sorry for me.

    All's well that ends well. Except I have become a lesser person.

    At this rate you'll be voting Leave in a few days
    ..

    :wink:
    He said he was becoming a lesser person, not a monster.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    EPG said:

    FPT

    Sean_F said:

    hunchman said:

    I must congratulate bob geldof on contributing to the leave campaign today. That moment perfectly encapsulated just how out of touch our ruling class is with the ordinary people of Britain.

    It's quite something for a legend of the punk revolution, general agitator and Irishman to boot to be classed as a ruler. But hey, whatever fits your meme.

    And yes he's always been a bit of a knob.
    Now, he's just a sad old sack.
    In Organising Live/Band Aid he demonstrably did more good than most if not all of us will do in our lifetime. It was the original lets not forget. So I'll give him a pass.
    But in wanting to Remain in the EU with its Common Agricultural Policy that does more damage to African farmers than all the good Band Aid ever did he is helping undo that legacy.

    Scrapping the CAP and letting Africa trade with us on the same terms as Europe can will do more good than Band Aid ever could.
    If you say so Philip, although I don't think Bozo and his pet lizard have African farmers in mind in making their pitch for out.
    Whether they do or don't (I do) they have made that argument before.

    Either way are you happy to keep Africa in penury with massive tariffs killing their development because a leaver may have impure thoughts?
    Which EU tariffs are impeding African economic development?
    Lots are. Just one of many examples:

    The EU lets Africa produce raw goods it is good at but levies very high tariffs on processed goods (so that the processing occurs in Europe). As anyone with a basic understanding of economics and history should understand the value and growth comes from moving past raw goods and into processing too.

    The EU levies no tariffs on coffee beans (which the EU can't produce) but levels tariffs on roasted coffee so that in 2014 Africa made $2.4 billion from exporting coffee, while Germany made $3.8 billion from re-exporting roasted coffee. It should be shocking that Germany makes more money from coffee beans than Africa does. Why should Africa be blocked from selling us roasted coffee beans so that the Germans can instead?
  • Options
    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    tyson said:

    OMG....if anyone has been following my red wine travails stasera, my wife has just returned to find me with the hair drier and the dog towels mopping up the mixture of red wine (my fault), white wine, salt, floor moisteners, soap and shed loads of water and soap from our expensive beige sofa

    And, in sheer panic, and for reasons of self protection, I told her the dog...the cutest animal possible, had vomited on the sofa. The mess doesn't even have a hint of red wine in it anymore.

    And guess what, my wife, believes me. And she feels sorry for me.

    All's well that ends well. Except I have become a lesser person.


    Ha! As long as you have got the chianti out it will all be fine once it all dries off. Buy the dog a biscuit. She'll never need to know.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,317

    I note that the Comres numbers are based on two key factors.

    1. A a very large vote for AB to REMAIN vs LEAVE (56% vs 36%)
    2. C1s being almost 50/50.

    The above two are out of line with at least one recent pollster, sorry I cannot recall which.

    The AB number vs DE is almost 4:1!
    Also 2:1 split for past Labour voters REMAIN vs LEAVE. Not what some in Labour party are reporting, maybe helped if a large part of Labour LEAVE just do not vote.

    ABs are absolutely solid for Remain in London.

    In fact, it is now getting socially difficult for me when it comes up in conversation, which is increasingly frequent.
  • Options
    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    Payet again. France through.
  • Options
    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Reading all these Leaver anecdotes , Brexit are either heading for a landslide , the anecdoters are telling porkies or they have deluded themselves . We will find out in 8 days time .
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024

    The chiefs of some of Britain’s biggest employers have threatened legal action against the official EU Leave campaign, after it included their corporate logos in a taxpayer-funded referendum leaflet implying that they supported Brexit.

    Top executives of General Electric, Unilever and Airbus wrote to Vote Leave claiming that it had misused public funds and used the logos “for propaganda purposes” when, in fact, they supported Britain’s EU membership.

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d1e83d3e-3309-11e6-ad39-3fee5ffe5b5b.html#axzz4BgMTTglj

    REMAIN have done the same with martin lewis so....
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    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,203

    FPT

    Sean_F said:

    hunchman said:

    I must congratulate bob geldof on contributing to the leave campaign today. That moment perfectly encapsulated just how out of touch our ruling class is with the ordinary people of Britain.

    It's quite something for a legend of the punk revolution, general agitator and Irishman to boot to be classed as a ruler. But hey, whatever fits your meme.

    And yes he's always been a bit of a knob.
    Now, he's just a sad old sack.
    In Organising Live/Band Aid he demonstrably did more good than most if not all of us will do in our lifetime. It was the original lets not forget. So I'll give him a pass.
    But in wanting to Remain in the EU with its Common Agricultural Policy that does more damage to African farmers than all the good Band Aid ever did he is helping undo that legacy.

    Scrapping the CAP and letting Africa trade with us on the same terms as Europe can will do more good than Band Aid ever could.
    If you say so Philip, although I don't think Bozo and his pet lizard have African farmers in mind in making their pitch for out.
    Whether they do or don't (I do) they have made that argument before.

    Either way are you happy to keep Africa in penury with massive tariffs killing their development because a leaver may have impure thoughts?
    Your team are free marketeers? The same sort of people who have been bleeding Africa dry since colonial times, as are the inners. You don't suppose the sweetcorn and green beans grown in Senegal and sold in Tescos are grown by small Senegalese farmers do you? I do take your point of course, but would most certainly not accept that outers are any more in favour of supporting small farmers in Africa than inners. The real problems of Africa do not register with either.
  • Options
    EICIPMEICIPM Posts: 55
    Good episode, I liked the use of the word toast:lol:
  • Options
    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223

    I note that the Comres numbers are based on two key factors.

    1. A a very large vote for AB to REMAIN vs LEAVE (56% vs 36%)
    2. C1s being almost 50/50.

    The above two are out of line with at least one recent pollster, sorry I cannot recall which.

    The AB number vs DE is almost 4:1!
    Also 2:1 split for past Labour voters REMAIN vs LEAVE. Not what some in Labour party are reporting, maybe helped if a large part of Labour LEAVE just do not vote.

    ABs are absolutely solid for Remain in London.

    In fact, it is now getting socially difficult for me when it comes up in conversation, which is increasingly frequent.
    Keep the flag flying. No surrender.

  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    I note that the Comres numbers are based on two key factors.

    1. A a very large vote for AB to REMAIN vs LEAVE (56% vs 36%)
    2. C1s being almost 50/50.

    The above two are out of line with at least one recent pollster, sorry I cannot recall which.

    The AB number vs DE is almost 4:1!
    Also 2:1 split for past Labour voters REMAIN vs LEAVE. Not what some in Labour party are reporting, maybe helped if a large part of Labour LEAVE just do not vote.

    ABs are absolutely solid for Remain in London.

    In fact, it is now getting socially difficult for me when it comes up in conversation, which is increasingly frequent.
    I wonder if there is a North/South divide here. A fair number of ABs I know (in the North) are for Leave.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    kle4 said:

    Portugal seems to be well regarded by the travelling elite on PB - I think I may book my holidays for there.

    The atlantic can be very cold for swimming and a bit rough for smaller children.

    The North coast of Spain is gorgeous, with interesting small towns, great food and good beaches even in cities such as Santander and San Sebastian. I sailed along the coast there last July and it wasn't too crowded at all. There can be sea fogs some days and a lot cooler than the med in August.

    Fox jr raves about Albania for beaches, mountains and value, but is in the backpacker rather than family holiday milieu.

  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721

    Reading all these Leaver anecdotes , Brexit are either heading for a landslide , the anecdoters are telling porkies or they have deluded themselves . We will find out in 8 days time .

    Its the same as the IndyRef, only with better polling data for Leave than Yes to give anecdotal info more credibility.
  • Options
    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    Reading all these Leaver anecdotes , Brexit are either heading for a landslide , the anecdoters are telling porkies or they have deluded themselves . We will find out in 8 days time .

    Well pb is an outlier in and of itself. No normal people post here. I'm taking nothing from the anecdata that we're getting.
  • Options
    A very good "PB/Polling Matters TV show June 15th: The EU Referendum special" recommended.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    FPT

    Sean_F said:

    hunchman said:

    I must congratulate bob geldof on contributing to the leave campaign today. That moment perfectly encapsulated just how out of touch our ruling class is with the ordinary people of Britain.

    It's quite something for a legend of the punk revolution, general agitator and Irishman to boot to be classed as a ruler. But hey, whatever fits your meme.

    And yes he's always been a bit of a knob.
    Now, he's just a sad old sack.
    In Organising Live/Band Aid he demonstrably did more good than most if not all of us will do in our lifetime. It was the original lets not forget. So I'll give him a pass.
    But in wanting to Remain in the EU with its Common Agricultural Policy that does more damage to African farmers than all the good Band Aid ever did he is helping undo that legacy.

    Scrapping the CAP and letting Africa trade with us on the same terms as Europe can will do more good than Band Aid ever could.
    If you say so Philip, although I don't think Bozo and his pet lizard have African farmers in mind in making their pitch for out.
    Whether they do or don't (I do) they have made that argument before.

    Either way are you happy to keep Africa in penury with massive tariffs killing their development because a leaver may have impure thoughts?
    Your team are free marketeers? The same sort of people who have been bleeding Africa dry since colonial times, as are the inners. You don't suppose the sweetcorn and green beans grown in Senegal and sold in Tescos are grown by small Senegalese farmers do you? I do take your point of course, but would most certainly not accept that outers are any more in favour of supporting small farmers in Africa than inners. The real problems of Africa do not register with either.
    If we abolish CAP and put Africa on the same trade terms as Europe then we would not just cut our own food costs but provide a major boon to the African economy.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721

    kle4 said:

    Portugal seems to be well regarded by the travelling elite on PB - I think I may book my holidays for there.

    The atlantic can be very cold for swimming and a bit rough for smaller children.

    The North coast of Spain is gorgeous, with interesting small towns, great food and good beaches even in cities such as Santander and San Sebastian. I sailed along the coast there last July and it wasn't too crowded at all. There can be sea fogs some days and a lot cooler than the med in August.

    Fox jr raves about Albania for beaches, mountains and value, but is in the backpacker rather than family holiday milieu.

    Eh, I cannot swim anyway, so no harm there. Though I don't drink either, so good wine is no selling point for me either.

    Somewhere not too hot, not too crowded is key though.
  • Options
    tysontyson Posts: 6,050
    edited June 2016
    Jobabob said:

    tyson said:

    OMG....if anyone has been following my red wine travails stasera, my wife has just returned to find me with the hair drier and the dog towels mopping up the mixture of red wine (my fault), white wine, salt, floor moisteners, soap and shed loads of water and soap from our expensive beige sofa

    And, in sheer panic, and for reasons of self protection, I told her the dog...the cutest animal possible, had vomited on the sofa. The mess doesn't even have a hint of red wine in it anymore.

    And guess what, my wife, believes me. And she feels sorry for me.

    All's well that ends well. Except I have become a lesser person.


    Ha! As long as you have got the chianti out it will all be fine once it all dries off. Buy the dog a biscuit. She'll never need to know.
    She (the dog) is long suffering....she's called Trotsky, and doesn't seem to have developed gender identity issues through being called a man's name.
  • Options
    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    Anecdote Alert.

    Son on a psychology conversion course in a Northern City was horrified to find he was the only Remainer out of 10.
  • Options
    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    Unscientific anecdote

    We had two canvass groups operating tonight in Sarf East London; VERY strong scores for Leave.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,317
    RoyalBlue said:

    I note that the Comres numbers are based on two key factors.

    1. A a very large vote for AB to REMAIN vs LEAVE (56% vs 36%)
    2. C1s being almost 50/50.

    The above two are out of line with at least one recent pollster, sorry I cannot recall which.

    The AB number vs DE is almost 4:1!
    Also 2:1 split for past Labour voters REMAIN vs LEAVE. Not what some in Labour party are reporting, maybe helped if a large part of Labour LEAVE just do not vote.

    ABs are absolutely solid for Remain in London.

    In fact, it is now getting socially difficult for me when it comes up in conversation, which is increasingly frequent.
    Keep the flag flying. No surrender.

    Not trying to big myself up but I did manage to impress one Islington socialist and Labour Party member, who I work with, who started off a conversation with a colleague describing Leavers as lunatics.

    At the end of our chat he said my case for Leave was the most intellectually coherent he'd heard, and he wished everyone was as rational as me.

    Which was nice :smile:
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    A very good "PB/Polling Matters TV show June 15th: The EU Referendum special" recommended.

    Seconded, enjoyed the discussion, though while I feel more informed, I don't feel particularly illuminated. Still no idea what will happen on the 23rd.
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    adam ludlow mmmmmm.......
  • Options
    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    I note that the Comres numbers are based on two key factors.

    1. A a very large vote for AB to REMAIN vs LEAVE (56% vs 36%)
    2. C1s being almost 50/50.

    The above two are out of line with at least one recent pollster, sorry I cannot recall which.

    The AB number vs DE is almost 4:1!
    Also 2:1 split for past Labour voters REMAIN vs LEAVE. Not what some in Labour party are reporting, maybe helped if a large part of Labour LEAVE just do not vote.

    ABs are absolutely solid for Remain in London.

    In fact, it is now getting socially difficult for me when it comes up in conversation, which is increasingly frequent.
    I wonder if there is a North/South divide here. A fair number of ABs I know (in the North) are for Leave.
    London professionals are not only solid for Remain but many refuse to entertain the thought that Leave can win, so dominate is europhilia in my circles. I have found myself reminding them that as London goes, not necessarily does the country. Yet many won't have it.

    P.S. One for Casino – my pb autocorrect keeps changing europhilia to urophilia
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,003
    The PB anecdote database suggests a LEAVE score of around 60 per cent, right?
  • Options
    Mr 2% Osborne is first up in the opening part of BBC1 News at Ten to drive another stake into the heart of the REMAIN campaign.
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    KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,850
    Anecdote alert.

    My neighbour's just put a Remain poster up in his window ;-(

    Split among friends and family is 60/40 Remain, too. Where are all these people voting Leave that I keep getting told about? Shy?
  • Options
    TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    tyson said:

    Jobabob said:

    tyson said:

    OMG....if anyone has been following my red wine travails stasera, my wife has just returned to find me with the hair drier and the dog towels mopping up the mixture of red wine (my fault), white wine, salt, floor moisteners, soap and shed loads of water and soap from our expensive beige sofa

    And, in sheer panic, and for reasons of self protection, I told her the dog...the cutest animal possible, had vomited on the sofa. The mess doesn't even have a hint of red wine in it anymore.

    And guess what, my wife, believes me. And she feels sorry for me.

    All's well that ends well. Except I have become a lesser person.


    Ha! As long as you have got the chianti out it will all be fine once it all dries off. Buy the dog a biscuit. She'll never need to know.
    She (the dog) is long suffering....she's called Trotsky, and doesn't seem to have developed gender identity issues through being called a man's name.
    Just keep her away from ice picks and she'll be ok.
  • Options
    I biased but I'll always love the Northern Majorcan resort of Puerto D'Pollenca. It's sit's in a massive elongated bay surrounded by mountains and pine trees. The water is so still it is like a mill pond and crystal clear, boats seem to float on air when looked at from above.

    It's a quiet town will not much above 4 storeys. The Northern part near the old town is the priciest near the yacht club and the very expensive flats and villas. Further South the beach widens out and the prices fall. Only one small section of the beach is full in August, just walk a little further from town and you won't be troubled. It is not a place for night life and is mostly stuffed full of restaurants and so it's clientele are either old people or people with very young chidren. Not only are the waves non existent the bay is so shallow , you can walk for ages before the water gets above the knees.

    When ever I'm there the weight of the world just melts away as I float on the water staring at the mountains. Or my favourite sitting at a hotel bar on the Pine Walk looking out to sea with a big jug of Sangria laughing with my sister and slowly sinking in my chair as the as the drink and the sunset takes effect. Sigh, why can't I win the lottery.
  • Options
    ConcanvasserConcanvasser Posts: 165
    No point telling porkies MarkSenior. Who would care and how would I gain? I may well be deluded but I am probably not be the best judge of that at this stage! We shall find out soon enough as you say. What is your call for the result Mark?
  • Options
    Anecdotal.

    Almost nobody I know and come into contact with up here in Scotland is even speaking about the referendum. It's a bit bizarre up here.

    Make of that what you will.
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    EPG said:

    The PB anecdote database suggests a LEAVE score of around 60 per cent, right?

    55% .
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    tysontyson Posts: 6,050
    John_M said:

    Reading all these Leaver anecdotes , Brexit are either heading for a landslide , the anecdoters are telling porkies or they have deluded themselves . We will find out in 8 days time .

    Well pb is an outlier in and of itself. No normal people post here. I'm taking nothing from the anecdata that we're getting.
    Well that is true. If you want any kind of serious reflection of what is happening, do not come here. However, if you want advice of summer holidays, or how to get red wine out of a beige sofa, it is quite perfect.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,317
    Jobabob said:

    I note that the Comres numbers are based on two key factors.

    1. A a very large vote for AB to REMAIN vs LEAVE (56% vs 36%)
    2. C1s being almost 50/50.

    The above two are out of line with at least one recent pollster, sorry I cannot recall which.

    The AB number vs DE is almost 4:1!
    Also 2:1 split for past Labour voters REMAIN vs LEAVE. Not what some in Labour party are reporting, maybe helped if a large part of Labour LEAVE just do not vote.

    ABs are absolutely solid for Remain in London.

    In fact, it is now getting socially difficult for me when it comes up in conversation, which is increasingly frequent.
    I wonder if there is a North/South divide here. A fair number of ABs I know (in the North) are for Leave.
    London professionals are not only solid for Remain but many refuse to entertain the thought that Leave can win, so dominate is europhilia in my circles. I have found myself reminding them that as London goes, not necessarily does the country. Yet many won't have it.

    P.S. One for Casino – my pb autocorrect keeps changing europhilia to urophilia
    ;-)
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,804
    We're still waiting for BMG?
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Anecdote alert , met a Leaver in the pub tonight . Ex BNP member but now votes UKIP . Gleefully going to vote Out to get rid of all immigrants first and then chuck out anyone who does not look British . Thinks Gove Johnson and Farage are on his side
  • Options
    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    kle4 said:

    Portugal seems to be well regarded by the travelling elite on PB - I think I may book my holidays for there.

    The atlantic can be very cold for swimming and a bit rough for smaller children.

    The North coast of Spain is gorgeous, with interesting small towns, great food and good beaches even in cities such as Santander and San Sebastian. I sailed along the coast there last July and it wasn't too crowded at all. There can be sea fogs some days and a lot cooler than the med in August.

    Fox jr raves about Albania for beaches, mountains and value, but is in the backpacker rather than family holiday milieu.

    Yes, want to avoid Atlantic because my son is very young. It's a toughie. Leaning towards Croatia but have heeded Sean's warning over the food. Hmm.
  • Options
    weejonnie said:

    Anecdote Alert.

    Son on a psychology conversion course in a Northern City was horrified to find he was the only Remainer out of 10.

    Daughter at a northern uni puts it more 4:1 for REMAIN, but doubts if 1 in 5 will either vote or be able to vote.
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,003

    EPG said:

    FPT

    Sean_F said:

    hunchman said:

    I must congratulate bob geldof on contributing to the leave campaign today. That moment perfectly encapsulated just how out of touch our ruling class is with the ordinary people of Britain.

    It's quite something for a legend of the punk revolution, general agitator and Irishman to boot to be classed as a ruler. But hey, whatever fits your meme.

    And yes he's always been a bit of a knob.
    Now, he's just a sad old sack.
    In Organising Live/Band Aid he demonstrably did more good than most if not all of us will do in our lifetime. It was the original lets not forget. So I'll give him a pass.
    But in wanting to Remain in the EU with its Common Agricultural Policy that does more damage to African farmers than all the good Band Aid ever did he is helping undo that legacy.

    Scrapping the CAP and letting Africa trade with us on the same terms as Europe can will do more good than Band Aid ever could.
    If you say so Philip, although I don't think Bozo and his pet lizard have African farmers in mind in making their pitch for out.
    Whether they do or don't (I do) they have made that argument before.

    Either way are you happy to keep Africa in penury with massive tariffs killing their development because a leaver may have impure thoughts?
    Which EU tariffs are impeding African economic development?
    Lots are. Just one of many examples:

    The EU lets Africa produce raw goods it is good at but levies very high tariffs on processed goods (so that the processing occurs in Europe). As anyone with a basic understanding of economics and history should understand the value and growth comes from moving past raw goods and into processing too.

    The EU levies no tariffs on coffee beans (which the EU can't produce) but levels tariffs on roasted coffee so that in 2014 Africa made $2.4 billion from exporting coffee, while Germany made $3.8 billion from re-exporting roasted coffee. It should be shocking that Germany makes more money from coffee beans than Africa does. Why should Africa be blocked from selling us roasted coffee beans so that the Germans can instead?
    Has Africa been successful in exporting processed consumer goods to destinations without tariffs? No, because investors in higher-value industries do not trust their capital to still be in their names in 20 years.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,317
    SeanT said:

    I note that the Comres numbers are based on two key factors.

    1. A a very large vote for AB to REMAIN vs LEAVE (56% vs 36%)
    2. C1s being almost 50/50.

    The above two are out of line with at least one recent pollster, sorry I cannot recall which.

    The AB number vs DE is almost 4:1!
    Also 2:1 split for past Labour voters REMAIN vs LEAVE. Not what some in Labour party are reporting, maybe helped if a large part of Labour LEAVE just do not vote.

    ABs are absolutely solid for Remain in London.

    In fact, it is now getting socially difficult for me when it comes up in conversation, which is increasingly frequent.
    You must move in different circles. In arty/writerly/publishing London there are plenty of LEAVERS. Also in the City.

    Journalistic London is full of LEAVERS... go online and you'll find 'em

    They are a minority, but they are perfectly visible.




    Quite a few in financial services and in professional services.

    The former are starting to get very emotional.
  • Options
    FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    May is well placed for the PM vacancy. She has done pretty much nothing in the campaign except say we should leave the ECJ. The acceptable face of Remain.
  • Options
    KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,850
    RoyalBlue said:

    Unscientific anecdote

    We had two canvass groups operating tonight in Sarf East London; VERY strong scores for Leave.

    The best part, the best part.
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    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869
    EPG said:

    The PB anecdote database suggests a LEAVE score of around 60 per cent, right?

    Probably more like 40% once Don't Voters fall off of the tally.
  • Options
    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    nunu said:

    adam ludlow mmmmmm.......

    Seconded.
  • Options
    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    tyson said:

    John_M said:

    Reading all these Leaver anecdotes , Brexit are either heading for a landslide , the anecdoters are telling porkies or they have deluded themselves . We will find out in 8 days time .

    Well pb is an outlier in and of itself. No normal people post here. I'm taking nothing from the anecdata that we're getting.
    Well that is true. If you want any kind of serious reflection of what is happening, do not come here. However, if you want advice of summer holidays, or how to get red wine out of a beige sofa, it is quite perfect.
    Ha! Many a true word.
  • Options
    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    edited June 2016
    I feel like Jim Carry in 'The Mask' when his eyes bugged out of their sockets.

    So, Mrs May, our HOME SECRETARY SINCE THE 12th MAY 2010, now feels it would be lovely to let fewer people in. Why didn't you say so before Theresa? I'll get right on it.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,317
    EPG said:

    The PB anecdote database suggests a LEAVE score of around 60 per cent, right?

    No one knows shit about shit.

    Does that help?
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,942

    I note that the Comres numbers are based on two key factors.

    1. A a very large vote for AB to REMAIN vs LEAVE (56% vs 36%)
    2. C1s being almost 50/50.

    The above two are out of line with at least one recent pollster, sorry I cannot recall which.

    The AB number vs DE is almost 4:1!
    Also 2:1 split for past Labour voters REMAIN vs LEAVE. Not what some in Labour party are reporting, maybe helped if a large part of Labour LEAVE just do not vote.

    ABs are absolutely solid for Remain in London.

    In fact, it is now getting socially difficult for me when it comes up in conversation, which is increasingly frequent.
    My experience today.

    I ride it out with platitudes - 'there is some serious discontent in this country', 'I'm confident that the will of the British people will triumph'
  • Options
    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642

    Anecdote alert , met a Leaver in the pub tonight . Ex BNP member but now votes UKIP . Gleefully going to vote Out to get rid of all immigrants first and then chuck out anyone who does not look British . Thinks Gove Johnson and Farage are on his side

    Of course you did.
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,003

    EPG said:

    The PB anecdote database suggests a LEAVE score of around 60 per cent, right?

    No one knows shit about shit.

    Does that help?
    It is much more useful as betting advice than a load of anecdotes, largely if not mostly garnered from efforts to ask people to vote LEAVE.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    I biased but I'll always love the Northern Majorcan resort of Puerto D'Pollenca. It's sit's in a massive elongated bay surrounded by mountains and pine trees. The water is so still it is like a mill pond and crystal clear, boats seem to float on air when looked at from above.

    It's a quiet town will not much above 4 storeys. The Northern part near the old town is the priciest near the yacht club and the very expensive flats and villas. Further South the beach widens out and the prices fall. Only one small section of the beach is full in August, just walk a little further from town and you won't be troubled. It is not a place for night life and is mostly stuffed full of restaurants and so it's clientele are either old people or people with very young chidren. Not only are the waves non existent the bay is so shallow , you can walk for ages before the water gets above the knees.

    When ever I'm there the weight of the world just melts away as I float on the water staring at the mountains. Or my favourite sitting at a hotel bar on the Pine Walk looking out to sea with a big jug of Sangria laughing with my sister and slowly sinking in my chair as the as the drink and the sunset takes effect. Sigh, why can't I win the lottery.

    I first went there 20 years ago when fox jr was a baby (short flight and definite sunshine). Everything that you say about Puerto Pollensa is true. I have been back a couple of times since. Majorca is a big island but has enough beaches to absorb the tourists. It is surprisingly easy to find quiet spots there.

    Being north facing it gets a breeze and is cooler than south facing resorts. The promenade is mostly pedestrianised so a very pleasant and entertaining evening stroll. There are Spaniards and locals eating out in local places but later than the tourists.

    Recommended for families who do not want nightclubbers and drunks rolling about the place.
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    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    Jobabob said:

    I note that the Comres numbers are based on two key factors.

    1. A a very large vote for AB to REMAIN vs LEAVE (56% vs 36%)
    2. C1s being almost 50/50.

    The above two are out of line with at least one recent pollster, sorry I cannot recall which.

    The AB number vs DE is almost 4:1!
    Also 2:1 split for past Labour voters REMAIN vs LEAVE. Not what some in Labour party are reporting, maybe helped if a large part of Labour LEAVE just do not vote.

    ABs are absolutely solid for Remain in London.

    In fact, it is now getting socially difficult for me when it comes up in conversation, which is increasingly frequent.
    I wonder if there is a North/South divide here. A fair number of ABs I know (in the North) are for Leave.
    London professionals are not only solid for Remain but many refuse to entertain the thought that Leave can win, so dominate is europhilia in my circles. I have found myself reminding them that as London goes, not necessarily does the country. Yet many won't have it.

    P.S. One for Casino – my pb autocorrect keeps changing europhilia to urophilia
    So That's why the polls aren't moving then! Just shows how groups that refuse to integrate with society at large have closed minds and become ever more reluctant to accept new ideas.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983

    I note that the Comres numbers are based on two key factors.

    1. A a very large vote for AB to REMAIN vs LEAVE (56% vs 36%)
    2. C1s being almost 50/50.

    The above two are out of line with at least one recent pollster, sorry I cannot recall which.

    The AB number vs DE is almost 4:1!
    Also 2:1 split for past Labour voters REMAIN vs LEAVE. Not what some in Labour party are reporting, maybe helped if a large part of Labour LEAVE just do not vote.

    The Comres figures are actually pretty close to what ICM were showing on social class voting and yougov too has Labour voters about 2:1 Remain
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    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223

    Anecdote alert.

    My neighbour's just put a Remain poster up in his window ;-(

    Split among friends and family is 60/40 Remain, too. Where are all these people voting Leave that I keep getting told about? Shy?

    Then you put up a Vote Leave poster! Surrender no territory...

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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited June 2016
    EPG said:

    EPG said:

    Which EU tariffs are impeding African economic development?

    Lots are. Just one of many examples:

    The EU lets Africa produce raw goods it is good at but levies very high tariffs on processed goods (so that the processing occurs in Europe). As anyone with a basic understanding of economics and history should understand the value and growth comes from moving past raw goods and into processing too.

    The EU levies no tariffs on coffee beans (which the EU can't produce) but levels tariffs on roasted coffee so that in 2014 Africa made $2.4 billion from exporting coffee, while Germany made $3.8 billion from re-exporting roasted coffee. It should be shocking that Germany makes more money from coffee beans than Africa does. Why should Africa be blocked from selling us roasted coffee beans so that the Germans can instead?
    Has Africa been successful in exporting processed consumer goods to destinations without tariffs? No, because investors in higher-value industries do not trust their capital to still be in their names in 20 years.
    Which major destinations are you talking about?

    The very purpose of a tariff is to try and make a trade unviable. It is deliberate policy of the EU tariffs to try and prevent African development to protect German processors.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    Hooray Henries makes the front page of the Guardian I see.
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    edited June 2016
    MP_SE said:

    Anecdote alert , met a Leaver in the pub tonight . Ex BNP member but now votes UKIP . Gleefully going to vote Out to get rid of all immigrants first and then chuck out anyone who does not look British . Thinks Gove Johnson and Farage are on his side

    Of course you did.

    I was in the pub earlier tonight
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
This discussion has been closed.