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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » As Trump prepares to give a defining speech on the economy

SystemSystem Posts: 11,015
edited August 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » As Trump prepares to give a defining speech on the economy the good polling news for Clinton continues

” It’s not just that Donald Trump needs to pivot – it’s that he needs to pivot away from being what’s made him Donald Trump. That means traditional-candidate Trump, maybe even boring-candidate Trump, reading from notes or TelePrompTers, and staying away from interviews and Twitter for a while.

Read the full story here


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    DanSmithDanSmith Posts: 1,215
    Trump is done, sadly this is going to be a pretty boring election.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited August 2016
    This debate over grammar schools...I doubt the solution found to work with KIPPS will be very popular with those who are extremely anti-grammar school.

    Which is effectively set up free schools for the poor, select by "motivation / potential" (not current test scores) then make them do more tuition, shorter holidays & generally worked a lot harder, with failure for the student or parents not willing to fully partake leading to exclusion.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914
    Bronze in the shotgun...
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited August 2016
    Eddie Izzard has lost his bid for a seat on Labour NEC’s, falling 12,000 votes short of victory. There were six places up for grabs, he came eighth in the running, behind all the Corbynista candidates.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    Depends which poll you look at, LAT has it tied, Reuters Clinton +3%
  • Options
    Ricky Tomlinson going all David icke on ch4...
  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited August 2016
    How many of the current Labour MP's would be brave enough to jump ship and join a sort of "SDP 2" .?. I mean they cannot carry on in the same party with Corbyn as leader...
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    edited August 2016
    DanSmith said:

    Trump is done, sadly this is going to be a pretty boring election.

    I remain of the view it will be very close, although I think Hillary will win in the end. The more charismatic and likeable candidate almost always wins in the end in US presidential elections. Neither are likeable but Trump is at least charismatic, unlike Hillary. You have to go back to 1968 to find a time when the less charismatic candidate won (and then Nixon only beat Humphrey by less than 1%). Hillary is nothing if not the reincarnation of Richard Nixon in a pantsuit!
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited August 2016
    My god I didn't realise the rail strike is actually over who opens the train doors, driver or guard. The fact in 21st century you even have to have a person is bonkers.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,859

    How many of the current Labour MP's would be brave enough to jump ship and join a sort of "SDP 2" .?. I mean they cannot carry on in the same party with Corbyn as leader...

    That's the $64,000 question. From the complete lack of spine we've seen from them so far, the answer is probably not many.
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    VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,435
    edited August 2016
    Trump is planning major overdue reforms to the US business tax system. 15% business taxes (down from 35%) and an one off repatriation tax of 10% for the trillions of profits stuck in offshore jurisdictions.

    Not sure how this would interrelate with personal taxes given that a lot of US businesses are carried out through LLCs (which are tax transparent entities) and thus directly taxed on their owners.

    This would make the US more tax competitive and make a UK corporation tax rate of 15% more likely.
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    BudGBudG Posts: 711
    Sandpit said:

    How many of the current Labour MP's would be brave enough to jump ship and join a sort of "SDP 2" .?. I mean they cannot carry on in the same party with Corbyn as leader...

    That's the $64,000 question. From the complete lack of spine we've seen from them so far, the answer is probably not many.
    How many are members of Progress? That will probably give a big clue as to how many and which ones.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,859
    Mr @rcs1000, catching up on the last thread you're right about the time to Aus from UK. I worked on 42 hours instead of 30. Idiot.
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited August 2016
    Sandpit said:

    How many of the current Labour MP's would be brave enough to jump ship and join a sort of "SDP 2" .?. I mean they cannot carry on in the same party with Corbyn as leader...

    That's the $64,000 question. From the complete lack of spine we've seen from them so far, the answer is probably not many.
    The key issue is the money behind them, without it they are fecked..

    Whilst this is terrible for the UK as a whole, I cannot help but laugh at Labour's pain, given how they were laughing at the Tories from 1997-2007... and taking us into illegal wars and fecking us economically..

    30 yrs before Labour are in power again, if they are that lucky.....
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PeterMannionMP: With annual leadership elections, fee hikes, and evermore left membership, Labour will become the wealthiest unelectable cult in the world.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited August 2016
    I notice we get this nonsense on ch4 about nobody will be able to do fruit picking after brexit. Even without freedom of movement (which is far from a given), we used to have a system of visa / permits for people from eastern europe to come and do the work.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914
    Paging @JohnLoony Tom Daley is on...
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    Paging @JohnLoony Tom Daley is on...

    I am sure he is glued to the moving picture box.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Is Trump done ?
    Yes.

    Best thing he can do ?
    Resign and let someone else have a try.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    Scott_P said:

    @PeterMannionMP: With annual leadership elections, fee hikes, and evermore left membership, Labour will become the wealthiest unelectable cult in the world.

    As half the Corbynistas have a trustfund they can afford it, as well as all the Tofu parties they have to attend and weekend rail fares to demos in cities across the country
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    Good to see the EU governments are quite happy to import North Korean slave labour.
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    CookieCookie Posts: 11,407

    This debate over grammar schools...I doubt the solution found to work with KIPPS will be very popular with those who are extremely anti-grammar school.

    Which is effectively set up free schools for the poor, select by "motivation / potential" (not current test scores) then make them do more tuition, shorter holidays & generally worked a lot harder, with failure for the student or parents not willing to fully partake leading to exclusion.

    KIPPS?

    I'm pro-grammar, on balance, partly because I went to one. But I can see both sides of the argument, I recognise I'm not disinterested and I'm open to persuasion.
    What I can't understand is the vitriolic hatred of grammar school sin the Labour Party. 'Consign to the dustbin of history' is something we do to morally bankrupt regimes like the Soviet Union. It isn't really language to use about some quite successful schools you want to operate differently. They sound utterly deranged.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,941
    HYUFD said:

    DanSmith said:

    Trump is done, sadly this is going to be a pretty boring election.

    I remain of the view it will be very close, although I think Hillary will win in the end. The more charismatic and likeable candidate almost always wins in the end in US presidential elections. Neither are likeable but Trump is at least charismatic, unlike Hillary. You have to go back to 1968 to find a time when the less charismatic candidate won (and then Nixon only beat Humphrey by less than 1%). Hillary is nothing if not the reincarnation of Richard Nixon in a pantsuit!
    Dukakis was more charismatic than Bush 1.
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    ChrisChris Posts: 11,118
    HYUFD said:


    That is wrong, according to Gallup Reagan trailed Carter by 3% before the debates

    Surely you know better than to rely on a single poll?

    Just look at the data. There's a fuller version of the graph here, which shows about a dozen polls from October 1980 immediately before the Reagan-Carter debate.

    Anyone with eyes can see that on average Reagan was several points ahead of Carter during that period.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,941
    Sandpit said:

    Mr @rcs1000, catching up on the last thread you're right about the time to Aus from UK. I worked on 42 hours instead of 30. Idiot.

    Don't worry, I make mistakes like that all the time.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited August 2016
    Cookie said:

    This debate over grammar schools...I doubt the solution found to work with KIPPS will be very popular with those who are extremely anti-grammar school.

    Which is effectively set up free schools for the poor, select by "motivation / potential" (not current test scores) then make them do more tuition, shorter holidays & generally worked a lot harder, with failure for the student or parents not willing to fully partake leading to exclusion.

    KIPPS?

    I'm pro-grammar, on balance, partly because I went to one. But I can see both sides of the argument, I recognise I'm not disinterested and I'm open to persuasion.
    What I can't understand is the vitriolic hatred of grammar school sin the Labour Party. 'Consign to the dustbin of history' is something we do to morally bankrupt regimes like the Soviet Union. It isn't really language to use about some quite successful schools you want to operate differently. They sound utterly deranged.
    KIPPs is a non profit in US that has amazing results of taking kids from really bad neighbourhoods. Their approach is based on looking at academic research and careful analysis.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knowledge_Is_Power_Program

    It was an inspiration behind Gove's approach, but he only took bits and pieces rather than the whole approach, which would have got him even worse headlines.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,941

    Good to see the EU governments are quite happy to import North Korean slave labour.

    ?
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    BBC Bristol
    "Every story has their white-bearded-hero, Gandalf, Dumbledore, we've got @jeremycorbyn" - Verity sums up #Corbyn. https://t.co/Rm7Cr9aSAJ
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    edited August 2016
    Speedy said:

    Is Trump done ?
    Yes.

    Best thing he can do ?
    Resign and let someone else have a try.

    Trump most certainly is not done, certainly until after the debates when Hillary will be up one on one with him for the first time. Nixon refused to debate Humphrey for a reason in 1968 (especially after his experiences in 1960) and Hillary is Nixon 2. Trump is better on TV, provided he avoids too many gaffes he could certainly win the debates and then it is game on.

    Trump is also now the party's official nominee and will not resign (not that any other Republican clinically sane would take the nomination now this year anyway, especially as half the Trump voters would refuse to vote for them)
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,407

    Cookie said:

    This debate over grammar schools...I doubt the solution found to work with KIPPS will be very popular with those who are extremely anti-grammar school.

    Which is effectively set up free schools for the poor, select by "motivation / potential" (not current test scores) then make them do more tuition, shorter holidays & generally worked a lot harder, with failure for the student or parents not willing to fully partake leading to exclusion.

    KIPPS?

    I'm pro-grammar, on balance, partly because I went to one. But I can see both sides of the argument, I recognise I'm not disinterested and I'm open to persuasion.
    What I can't understand is the vitriolic hatred of grammar school sin the Labour Party. 'Consign to the dustbin of history' is something we do to morally bankrupt regimes like the Soviet Union. It isn't really language to use about some quite successful schools you want to operate differently. They sound utterly deranged.
    KIPPs is a non profit in US that has amazing results of taking kids from really bad neighbourhoods. Their approach is based on looking at academic research and careful analysis.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knowledge_Is_Power_Program

    It was an inspiration behind Gove's approach, but he only took bits and pieces rather than the whole approach, which would have got him even worse headlines.
    Thanks - interesting.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,941

    Trump is planning major overdue reforms to the US business tax system. 15% business taxes (down from 35%) and an one off repatriation tax of 10% for the trillions of profits stuck in offshore jurisdictions.

    Not sure how this would interrelate with personal taxes given that a lot of US businesses are carried out through LLCs (which are tax transparent entities) and thus directly taxed on their owners.

    This would make the US more tax competitive and make a UK corporation tax rate of 15% more likely.

    Very sensible:
    I do wonder, though, if Trump and co had been reading another of my pieces: http://www.thstailwinds.com/chasing-their-tails/
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited August 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    Good to see the EU governments are quite happy to import North Korean slave labour.

    ?
    Dispatches are running a bizzare story of Poland and Malta employing north Korean slave labour with full knowledge and permission of the government. Apparently Kim Jung nutso is making a £1bn exporting slave labour around the world including to some EU countries.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    DanSmith said:

    Trump is done, sadly this is going to be a pretty boring election.

    I remain of the view it will be very close, although I think Hillary will win in the end. The more charismatic and likeable candidate almost always wins in the end in US presidential elections. Neither are likeable but Trump is at least charismatic, unlike Hillary. You have to go back to 1968 to find a time when the less charismatic candidate won (and then Nixon only beat Humphrey by less than 1%). Hillary is nothing if not the reincarnation of Richard Nixon in a pantsuit!
    Dukakis was more charismatic than Bush 1.
    No way, Dukakis made a lamppost look charismatic, like Major Bush Snr was charismatic in person if not quite as much on TV
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,052
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    DanSmith said:

    Trump is done, sadly this is going to be a pretty boring election.

    I remain of the view it will be very close, although I think Hillary will win in the end. The more charismatic and likeable candidate almost always wins in the end in US presidential elections. Neither are likeable but Trump is at least charismatic, unlike Hillary. You have to go back to 1968 to find a time when the less charismatic candidate won (and then Nixon only beat Humphrey by less than 1%). Hillary is nothing if not the reincarnation of Richard Nixon in a pantsuit!
    Dukakis was more charismatic than Bush 1.
    Do you think so? It was his robotic, on-message answer to a question on the death penalty that sunk his campaign without trace.

    Bush 1's gravitas also compensated for any lack of charisma.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,118
    Chris said:

    Just look at the data. There's a fuller version of the graph here, which shows about a dozen polls from October 1980 immediately before the Reagan-Carter debate.

    Anyone with eyes can see that on average Reagan was several points ahead of Carter during that period.

    Sorry - I left out the URL:
    http://themonkeycage.org/2012/08/what-really-happened-in-the-1980-presidential-campaign/
  • Options
    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    Scott_P said:

    @PeterMannionMP: With annual leadership elections, fee hikes, and evermore left membership, Labour will become the wealthiest unelectable cult in the world.

    I expect even Labour's new membership will suss that out sometime although, from what I've seen of them, they're a pretty unworldly lot but richer than Labour's non-metropolitan traditional membership so maybe they won't care.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,407
    OK, another subject - I have three daughters - 6, 4, and 1 - and am driving down to Cornwall on Saturday. Does anyone have any tips for car music acceptable to both indie-orientated adults and pre-pubescent girls? I have a playlist but it needs expanding.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    edited August 2016
    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:


    That is wrong, according to Gallup Reagan trailed Carter by 3% before the debates

    Surely you know better than to rely on a single poll?

    Just look at the data. There's a fuller version of the graph here, which shows about a dozen polls from October 1980 immediately before the Reagan-Carter debate.

    Anyone with eyes can see that on average Reagan was several points ahead of Carter during that period.
    As I said Gallup had Carter ahead before the debates and most of the polls showed he got a bigger convention bounce than Reagan, the debates helped Reagan on his way to a 9% victory margin, Trump only needs to win by 1%

    You can look beyond 1980 too, in 1960 JFK trailed Nixon pre debate, in 2000 Bush trailed Gore, in both cases the debates were pivotal
  • Options
    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    Cookie said:

    This debate over grammar schools...I doubt the solution found to work with KIPPS will be very popular with those who are extremely anti-grammar school.

    Which is effectively set up free schools for the poor, select by "motivation / potential" (not current test scores) then make them do more tuition, shorter holidays & generally worked a lot harder, with failure for the student or parents not willing to fully partake leading to exclusion.

    KIPPS?

    I'm pro-grammar, on balance, partly because I went to one. But I can see both sides of the argument, I recognise I'm not disinterested and I'm open to persuasion.
    What I can't understand is the vitriolic hatred of grammar school sin the Labour Party. 'Consign to the dustbin of history' is something we do to morally bankrupt regimes like the Soviet Union. It isn't really language to use about some quite successful schools you want to operate differently. They sound utterly deranged.
    They are.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    How many of the current Labour MP's would be brave enough to jump ship and join a sort of "SDP 2" .?. I mean they cannot carry on in the same party with Corbyn as leader...

    How many of them can remain MP's outside of safe Labour seats?

    As I mentioned much earlier, they would need to find seats where the LD were very close in winning last time.

    For instance, the closest seat geographically Hilary Benn can run at as a LD (or Alliance) with hopes of victory is Bradford East, but it is 40% asian and the sitting Labour MP is asian.

    If he wants to stand in Cambridge, the LD have already selected a candidate and university seats are very Corbyn friendly.

    He may even try for a Tory-LD marginal like Eastbourne, they are many times the number of Tory-LD marginals than Labour-LD ones.

    But as a LD or Alliance he has no hope of winning in his present seat of Leeds Central.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,052

    Trump is planning major overdue reforms to the US business tax system. 15% business taxes (down from 35%) and an one off repatriation tax of 10% for the trillions of profits stuck in offshore jurisdictions.

    The issue of corporate profits stuck in overseas jurisdictions has been left to fester for far too long. Resolving it, however, would surely be inflationary if huge amounts of cash are suddenly able to be deployed by US corporates in the US and it would have implications for the Fed's monetary policy.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited August 2016
    What a bizzare claim on dispatches, that because of brexit we will get labour from further afield. Logical flaw....if poles can't get a work permit, chances of anybody getting one "from further afield" Less than zero.

    And before EU expansion what did we have...oh yeah special visa for eastern Europeans to be fruit pickers.

    I have seen more accurate reporting in daily mail article on immigration than those ch4 claims.
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    ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,404
    Cookie said:

    OK, another subject - I have three daughters - 6, 4, and 1 - and am driving down to Cornwall on Saturday. Does anyone have any tips for car music acceptable to both indie-orientated adults and pre-pubescent girls? I have a playlist but it needs expanding.

    It's your car. Therefore the music must only be acceptable to you. As Dad you get to inflict your taste on your children ;)
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    rcs1000 said:

    Trump is planning major overdue reforms to the US business tax system. 15% business taxes (down from 35%) and an one off repatriation tax of 10% for the trillions of profits stuck in offshore jurisdictions.

    Not sure how this would interrelate with personal taxes given that a lot of US businesses are carried out through LLCs (which are tax transparent entities) and thus directly taxed on their owners.

    This would make the US more tax competitive and make a UK corporation tax rate of 15% more likely.

    Very sensible:
    I do wonder, though, if Trump and co had been reading another of my pieces: http://www.thstailwinds.com/chasing-their-tails/
    If he is reading your stuff, try writing an article that says :
    "Ivanka Trump should replace her Dad as GOP nominee"
  • Options
    Speedy said:

    How many of the current Labour MP's would be brave enough to jump ship and join a sort of "SDP 2" .?. I mean they cannot carry on in the same party with Corbyn as leader...

    How many of them can remain MP's outside of safe Labour seats?

    As I mentioned much earlier, they would need to find seats where the LD were very close in winning last time.

    For instance, the closest seat geographically Hilary Benn can run at as a LD (or Alliance) with hopes of victory is Bradford East, but it is 40% asian and the sitting Labour MP is asian.

    If he wants to stand in Cambridge, the LD have already selected a candidate and university seats are very Corbyn friendly.

    He may even try for a Tory-LD marginal like Eastbourne, they are many times the number of Tory-LD marginals than Labour-LD ones.

    But as a LD or Alliance he has no hope of winning in his present seat of Leeds Central.

    LDs don't want Hilary Benn as a candidate and Hilary Benn does not want to join the LDs.

    LDs are not Labour lite. LDs believe in free trade and least state intervention. Labour are protectionist and in favour of state intervention.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    edited August 2016

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    DanSmith said:

    Trump is done, sadly this is going to be a pretty boring election.

    I remain of the view it will be very close, although I think Hillary will win in the end. The more charismatic and likeable candidate almost always wins in the end in US presidential elections. Neither are likeable but Trump is at least charismatic, unlike Hillary. You have to go back to 1968 to find a time when the less charismatic candidate won (and then Nixon only beat Humphrey by less than 1%). Hillary is nothing if not the reincarnation of Richard Nixon in a pantsuit!
    Dukakis was more charismatic than Bush 1.
    Do you think so? It was his robotic, on-message answer to a question on the death penalty that sunk his campaign without trace.

    Bush 1's gravitas also compensated for any lack of charisma.
    Indeed that clip is here
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF9gSyku-fc

    Of course when Bush 1 faced a more charismatic opponent than Dukakis, Bill Clinton in 1992, he lost
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,385
    Had a fascinating meeting with the owner of an in-bound Chinese market digital marketing agency today. All looking decidedly rosy due to the low pound and Chinese perceptions of Britain (touch wood/crosses-self) being safer from terrorism than continental Europe. Parents asking if they can pay for four years of university up-front right now due to the exchange rate.
  • Options
    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    ToryJim said:

    Cookie said:

    OK, another subject - I have three daughters - 6, 4, and 1 - and am driving down to Cornwall on Saturday. Does anyone have any tips for car music acceptable to both indie-orientated adults and pre-pubescent girls? I have a playlist but it needs expanding.

    It's your car. Therefore the music must only be acceptable to you. As Dad you get to inflict your taste on your children ;)
    That's not my experience!
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited August 2016

    Speedy said:

    How many of the current Labour MP's would be brave enough to jump ship and join a sort of "SDP 2" .?. I mean they cannot carry on in the same party with Corbyn as leader...

    How many of them can remain MP's outside of safe Labour seats?

    As I mentioned much earlier, they would need to find seats where the LD were very close in winning last time.

    For instance, the closest seat geographically Hilary Benn can run at as a LD (or Alliance) with hopes of victory is Bradford East, but it is 40% asian and the sitting Labour MP is asian.

    If he wants to stand in Cambridge, the LD have already selected a candidate and university seats are very Corbyn friendly.

    He may even try for a Tory-LD marginal like Eastbourne, they are many times the number of Tory-LD marginals than Labour-LD ones.

    But as a LD or Alliance he has no hope of winning in his present seat of Leeds Central.

    LDs don't want Hilary Benn as a candidate and Hilary Benn does not want to join the LDs.

    LDs are not Labour lite. LDs believe in free trade and least state intervention. Labour are protectionist and in favour of state intervention.
    And you are adding another problem to the issue.

    Will the LD accept those Labour MP's in the first place, much less accommodating them with the best seats ?
  • Options
    ThrakThrak Posts: 494
    Debates - look at the Politifact scores - Trump statements are only 31% ar least half true. Clinton scores 71% on the same measure.

    A candidate who lies so much is always going to be in trouble in debates and that's why he's been complaining about them. I wouldn't be surprised if he tries to reduce their number or even 'do a Fox' and refuse to attend.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    edited August 2016
    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    How many of the current Labour MP's would be brave enough to jump ship and join a sort of "SDP 2" .?. I mean they cannot carry on in the same party with Corbyn as leader...

    How many of them can remain MP's outside of safe Labour seats?

    As I mentioned much earlier, they would need to find seats where the LD were very close in winning last time.

    For instance, the closest seat geographically Hilary Benn can run at as a LD (or Alliance) with hopes of victory is Bradford East, but it is 40% asian and the sitting Labour MP is asian.

    If he wants to stand in Cambridge, the LD have already selected a candidate and university seats are very Corbyn friendly.

    He may even try for a Tory-LD marginal like Eastbourne, they are many times the number of Tory-LD marginals than Labour-LD ones.

    But as a LD or Alliance he has no hope of winning in his present seat of Leeds Central.

    LDs don't want Hilary Benn as a candidate and Hilary Benn does not want to join the LDs.

    LDs are not Labour lite. LDs believe in free trade and least state intervention. Labour are protectionist and in favour of state intervention.
    And you are adding another problem to the issue.

    Will the LD accept those Labour MP's in the first place, much less accommodating them with the best seats ?
    The Liberals and SDP combined got 25% in 1983 ie more than even the 22/23% Charles Kennedy got in 2005 and Clegg got in 2010 and just 2% behind Foot's Labour on 27%, given the LDs got 8% at the last general election and won just 8 seats I would have thought Farron would be licking Hilary Benn's boots at the slightest prospect he could form a pact with moderate Labour!
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    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642

    rcs1000 said:

    Good to see the EU governments are quite happy to import North Korean slave labour.

    ?
    Dispatches are running a bizzare story of Poland and Malta employing north Korean slave labour with full knowledge and permission of the government. Apparently Kim Jung nutso is making a £1bn exporting slave labour around the world including to some EU countries.
    So much for the EU protecting workers' rights. Turns out they make use of slave labour.
  • Options
    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    Had a fascinating meeting with the owner of an in-bound Chinese market digital marketing agency today. All looking decidedly rosy due to the low pound and Chinese perceptions of Britain (touch wood/crosses-self) being safer from terrorism than continental Europe. Parents asking if they can pay for four years of university up-front right now due to the exchange rate.

    They can of course buy the sterling now and stick it in a building society for 1%ish interest until they need it, which is what all of us rich pensioners do.
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    I notice we get this nonsense on ch4 about nobody will be able to do fruit picking after brexit. Even without freedom of movement (which is far from a given), we used to have a system of visa / permits for people from eastern europe to come and do the work.

    I don't mind criticism - if anyone cares - but this kind of non-story is just annoying. We ran SAWS from the 1950s until 2013. At that point we started looking at a non-EU SAWS as Eastern Europe is becoming too wealthy to sustain the required numbers.

    There are much more powerful critiques that can be made. The anti-Brexit brigade should be going ham on the automotive sector and the City.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    Thrak said:

    Debates - look at the Politifact scores - Trump statements are only 31% ar least half true. Clinton scores 71% on the same measure.

    A candidate who lies so much is always going to be in trouble in debates and that's why he's been complaining about them. I wouldn't be surprised if he tries to reduce their number or even 'do a Fox' and refuse to attend.

    Do you think the average American debate watcher watches Presidential debates scrutinising every fact with their local college? Of course not, TV debates are won almost entirely on charisma, likeability and connection with the audience, how on earth else did JFK beat Nixon, Reagan beat Carter or Bush beat Gore? In 1960 of course it was famously recorded that Nixon won the radio debate convincingly on the facts when neither candidate was seen but JFK won the TV debate and the election
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Thrak said:

    Debates - look at the Politifact scores - Trump statements are only 31% ar least half true. Clinton scores 71% on the same measure.

    A candidate who lies so much is always going to be in trouble in debates and that's why he's been complaining about them. I wouldn't be surprised if he tries to reduce their number or even 'do a Fox' and refuse to attend.

    That says nothing.

    In debates you can win as long as you are the happy charming liar, and your lies have a grain of truth in them.

    Trying to woo an electorate is like trying to woo a woman to bed, that's why Bill Clinton and Tony Blair were so successful.

    Trump on the other hand would probably be kicked by a woman in the balls if he tried his approach (and that is what is going now in the polls).
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    MP_SE said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Good to see the EU governments are quite happy to import North Korean slave labour.

    ?
    Dispatches are running a bizzare story of Poland and Malta employing north Korean slave labour with full knowledge and permission of the government. Apparently Kim Jung nutso is making a £1bn exporting slave labour around the world including to some EU countries.
    So much for the EU protecting workers' rights. Turns out they make use of slave labour.
    Well immigration is a kind of modern day slavery.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    edited August 2016
    Speedy said:

    Thrak said:

    Debates - look at the Politifact scores - Trump statements are only 31% ar least half true. Clinton scores 71% on the same measure.

    A candidate who lies so much is always going to be in trouble in debates and that's why he's been complaining about them. I wouldn't be surprised if he tries to reduce their number or even 'do a Fox' and refuse to attend.

    That says nothing.

    In debates you can win as long as you are the happy charming liar, and your lies have a grain of truth in them.

    Trying to woo an electorate is like trying to woo a woman to bed, that's why Bill Clinton and Tony Blair were so successful.

    Trump on the other hand would probably be kicked by a woman in the balls if he tried his approach (and that is what is going now in the polls).
    Agree on that but when the average American white male (and indeed a fair few black males) watches Hillary Clinton for 2 hours and is reminded exactly why they first loathed her in the first place, all Trump has to do is turn on a bit of folksy charm, have a few good one liners and not say anything sexist and he will win the debate
  • Options
    ThrakThrak Posts: 494
    Lies get found out. The election isn't the next day after debates and Clinton and, probably, the debate moderators know that they will score highly by taking apart any lie there and then.

    You are treating the American people as stupid, imagine if you claimed the same for the UK.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,941
    Speedy said:

    MP_SE said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Good to see the EU governments are quite happy to import North Korean slave labour.

    ?
    Dispatches are running a bizzare story of Poland and Malta employing north Korean slave labour with full knowledge and permission of the government. Apparently Kim Jung nutso is making a £1bn exporting slave labour around the world including to some EU countries.
    So much for the EU protecting workers' rights. Turns out they make use of slave labour.
    Well immigration is a kind of modern day slavery.
    Lol
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    edited August 2016
    Thrak said:

    Lies get found out. The election isn't the next day after debates and Clinton and, probably, the debate moderators know that they will score highly by taking apart any lie there and then.

    You are treating the American people as stupid, imagine if you claimed the same for the UK.

    The average debate watcher (in both the UK and US) has an attention span a little more than a gnat, they will watch the debate while chatting, surfing the net, eating nachos, going to the loo etc First impressions are everything, it happened here too, look at how Clegg shot up the polls in 2010 just through being a fresh face in the first debate. Gore's shrugging in 2000 and Nixon's refusal to wear makeup in 1960 arguably cost both the presidency. Facts after the debate rarely make much difference unless absolute whoppers, debates are not budgets
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    Thrak said:

    Debates - look at the Politifact scores - Trump statements are only 31% ar least half true. Clinton scores 71% on the same measure.

    A candidate who lies so much is always going to be in trouble in debates and that's why he's been complaining about them. I wouldn't be surprised if he tries to reduce their number or even 'do a Fox' and refuse to attend.

    That says nothing.

    In debates you can win as long as you are the happy charming liar, and your lies have a grain of truth in them.

    Trying to woo an electorate is like trying to woo a woman to bed, that's why Bill Clinton and Tony Blair were so successful.

    Trump on the other hand would probably be kicked by a woman in the balls if he tried his approach (and that is what is going now in the polls).
    Agree on that but when the average American white male (and indeed a fair few black males) watches Hillary Clinton for 2 hours and is reminded exactly why they first loathed her in the first place, all Trump has to do is turn on a bit of folksy charm, have a few good one liners and not say anything sexist and he will win the debate
    Trump would probably get into a fight with the moderator in the first question.

    Trump needs to prove that he is a rational smart human being with some basic charm (almost the opposite of now), his real enemy (aka the media) are populated by those people, he has to prove that he is better than them to win the girl (and the election).
  • Options
    ThrakThrak Posts: 494
    A patronising view of the American electorate appears to go a long way to explain Trump ramping from some people.


  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    Thrak said:

    Debates - look at the Politifact scores - Trump statements are only 31% ar least half true. Clinton scores 71% on the same measure.

    A candidate who lies so much is always going to be in trouble in debates and that's why he's been complaining about them. I wouldn't be surprised if he tries to reduce their number or even 'do a Fox' and refuse to attend.

    That says nothing.

    In debates you can win as long as you are the happy charming liar, and your lies have a grain of truth in them.

    Trying to woo an electorate is like trying to woo a woman to bed, that's why Bill Clinton and Tony Blair were so successful.

    Trump on the other hand would probably be kicked by a woman in the balls if he tried his approach (and that is what is going now in the polls).
    Agree on that but when the average American white male (and indeed a fair few black males) watches Hillary Clinton for 2 hours and is reminded exactly why they first loathed her in the first place, all Trump has to do is turn on a bit of folksy charm, have a few good one liners and not say anything sexist and he will win the debate
    Trump would probably get into a fight with the moderator in the first question.

    Trump needs to prove that he is a rational smart human being with some basic charm (almost the opposite of now), his real enemy (aka the media) are populated by those people, he has to prove that he is better than them to win the girl (and the election).
    I agree Trump needs to work on his debate prep but he has almost 2 months to do so, his advisers will doing night after night of practice debates and he has some sharp and experienced politicians on his team well versed with debates eg Chris Christie and Rudy Giuliani
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    rcs1000 said:

    Speedy said:

    MP_SE said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Good to see the EU governments are quite happy to import North Korean slave labour.

    ?
    Dispatches are running a bizzare story of Poland and Malta employing north Korean slave labour with full knowledge and permission of the government. Apparently Kim Jung nutso is making a £1bn exporting slave labour around the world including to some EU countries.
    So much for the EU protecting workers' rights. Turns out they make use of slave labour.
    Well immigration is a kind of modern day slavery.
    Lol
    Well it is.
    Most immigrants (especially the illegal ones )have fewer or almost no rights and are payed meager wages, and the immigration trade in the middle east looks like the slave trade.

    Also immigrants are employed for the same reasons slaves were, as cheap labour, and tend to be abused by their employers too.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    Thrak said:

    A patronising view of the American electorate appears to go a long way to explain Trump ramping from some people.


    Remember this is the electorate which elected George W Bush, not once but twice. (Not that our electorate is much better either, we almost always pick the charismatic candidate too)
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited August 2016
    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    Thrak said:

    Debates - look at the Politifact scores - Trump statements are only 31% ar least half true. Clinton scores 71% on the same measure.

    A candidate who lies so much is always going to be in trouble in debates and that's why he's been complaining about them. I wouldn't be surprised if he tries to reduce their number or even 'do a Fox' and refuse to attend.

    That says nothing.

    In debates you can win as long as you are the happy charming liar, and your lies have a grain of truth in them.

    Trying to woo an electorate is like trying to woo a woman to bed, that's why Bill Clinton and Tony Blair were so successful.

    Trump on the other hand would probably be kicked by a woman in the balls if he tried his approach (and that is what is going now in the polls).
    Agree on that but when the average American white male (and indeed a fair few black males) watches Hillary Clinton for 2 hours and is reminded exactly why they first loathed her in the first place, all Trump has to do is turn on a bit of folksy charm, have a few good one liners and not say anything sexist and he will win the debate
    Trump would probably get into a fight with the moderator in the first question.

    Trump needs to prove that he is a rational smart human being with some basic charm (almost the opposite of now), his real enemy (aka the media) are populated by those people, he has to prove that he is better than them to win the girl (and the election).
    I agree Trump needs to work on his debate prep but he has almost 2 months to do so, his advisers will doing night after night of practice debates and he has some sharp and experienced politicians on his team well versed with debates eg Chris Christie and Rudy Giuliani
    He needs to do that before the debates.

    He only has 90 days to reverse a 10 point lead for Hillary.
    He can only do it by reversing his public image as soon as possible, not waiting for the debates which come only weeks before the election.

    Don't forget, early voting starts a month before the election.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Thrak said:

    A patronising view of the American electorate appears to go a long way to explain Trump ramping from some people.


    Actually I have the same view of any electorate in the entire world.

    Elections are truly like a date, after all you are asking the country to marry you for 4-5 years.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,941
    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Speedy said:

    MP_SE said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Good to see the EU governments are quite happy to import North Korean slave labour.

    ?
    Dispatches are running a bizzare story of Poland and Malta employing north Korean slave labour with full knowledge and permission of the government. Apparently Kim Jung nutso is making a £1bn exporting slave labour around the world including to some EU countries.
    So much for the EU protecting workers' rights. Turns out they make use of slave labour.
    Well immigration is a kind of modern day slavery.
    Lol
    Well it is.
    Most immigrants (especially the illegal ones )have fewer or almost no rights and are payed meager wages, and the immigration trade in the middle east looks like the slave trade.

    Also immigrants are employed for the same reasons slaves were, as cheap labour, and tend to be abused by their employers too.
    Dude. It's a laughable comparison.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited August 2016
    Tom Daley & Daniel Goodfellow bronze.

    I presume John has had to go for a cold shower after all that...erhhh...excitement.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    rcs1000 said:

    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Speedy said:

    MP_SE said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Good to see the EU governments are quite happy to import North Korean slave labour.

    ?
    Dispatches are running a bizzare story of Poland and Malta employing north Korean slave labour with full knowledge and permission of the government. Apparently Kim Jung nutso is making a £1bn exporting slave labour around the world including to some EU countries.
    So much for the EU protecting workers' rights. Turns out they make use of slave labour.
    Well immigration is a kind of modern day slavery.
    Lol
    Well it is.
    Most immigrants (especially the illegal ones )have fewer or almost no rights and are payed meager wages, and the immigration trade in the middle east looks like the slave trade.

    Also immigrants are employed for the same reasons slaves were, as cheap labour, and tend to be abused by their employers too.
    Dude. It's a laughable comparison.
    Not for those who work on the stadiums in Qatar.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    Thrak said:

    Debates - look at the Politifact scores - Trump statements are only 31% ar least half true. Clinton scores 71% on the same measure.

    A candidate who lies so much is always going to be in trouble in debates and that's why he's been complaining about them. I wouldn't be surprised if he tries to reduce their number or even 'do a Fox' and refuse to attend.

    That says nothing.

    In debates you can win as long as you are the happy charming liar, and your lies have a grain of truth in them.

    Trying to woo an electorate is like trying to woo a woman to bed, that's why Bill Clinton and Tony Blair were so successful.

    Trump on the other hand would probably be kicked by a woman in the balls if he tried his approach (and that is what is going now in the polls).
    Agree on that but when the average American white male (and indeed a fair few black males) watches Hillary Clinton for 2 hours and is reminded exactly why they first loathed her in the first place, all Trump has to do is turn on a bit of folksy charm, have a few good one liners and not say anything sexist and he will win the debate
    Trump would probably get into a fight with the moderator in the first question.

    Trump needs to prove that he is a rational smart human being with some basic charm (almost the opposite of now), his real enemy (aka the media) are populated by those people, he has to prove that he is better than them to win the girl (and the election).
    I agree Trump needs to work on his debate prep but he has almost 2 months to do so, his advisers will doing night after night of practice debates and he has some sharp and experienced politicians on his team well versed with debates eg Chris Christie and Rudy Giuliani
    He needs to do that before the debates.

    He only has 90 days to reverse a 10 point lead for Hillary.
    He can only do it by reversing his public image as soon as possible, not waiting for the debates which come only weeks before the election.

    Don't forget, early voting starts a month before the election.
    The election is not until November, the first debate is September ie more than a month before the election. Most polls actually do not show a 10% Hillary lead eg the latest LAT has it tied, Reuters has it Hillary +3%. Debates are game changers. His public image won him the primaries, he does not need to reverse it, especially as Hillary's is not great either, just try and minimise the gaffes.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,118
    HYUFD said:


    As I said Gallup had Carter ahead before the debates and most of the polls showed he got a bigger convention bounce than Reagan, the debates helped Reagan on his way to a 9% victory margin, Trump only needs to win by 1%

    No, what you said was "Reagan trailed Carter after the conventions in 1980 but won the election in the debates." That was what I was correcting.

  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983

    Tom Daley & Daniel Goodfellow bronze.

    I presume John has had to go for a cold shower after all that...erhhh...excitement.

    I see Dustin LB is cheering from the side too
  • Options
    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Speedy said:

    MP_SE said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Good to see the EU governments are quite happy to import North Korean slave labour.

    ?
    Dispatches are running a bizzare story of Poland and Malta employing north Korean slave labour with full knowledge and permission of the government. Apparently Kim Jung nutso is making a £1bn exporting slave labour around the world including to some EU countries.
    So much for the EU protecting workers' rights. Turns out they make use of slave labour.
    Well immigration is a kind of modern day slavery.
    Lol
    Well it is.
    Most immigrants (especially the illegal ones )have fewer or almost no rights and are payed meager wages, and the immigration trade in the middle east looks like the slave trade.

    Also immigrants are employed for the same reasons slaves were, as cheap labour, and tend to be abused by their employers too.
    It's tant pis for the illegals. The rest of your post is just daft. All of the NHS consultants that look after me are immigrants and all are likely earning well north of 100k.
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    edited August 2016
    Compared with the British and other Western electorates the American electorate has often shown itself to be lacking in intellectual insight. The idea that G W Bush and Ronald Reagan were the best on offer in 2000 and 1980 respectively does little to enhance confidence in any judgement it might make.
    On a separate issue, I was unaware that Nixon refused to debate with Humphrey in 1968.That did not prevent him being elected so there is a precedent available there should a candidate not wish to proceed with the debates.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    BBC2 now doing a programme on the referendum with interviews with key players
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited August 2016
    HYUFD said:

    BBC2 now doing a programme on the referendum with interviews with key players

    And I turn it on and it is Peter f##king Mandelson....

    £4300...£4300...£4300...
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983

    HYUFD said:

    BBC2 now doing a programme on the referendum with interviews with key players

    And I turn it on and it is Peter f##king Mandelson....
    Now Matthew Elliott from VoteLeave
  • Options
    £350 million...£350 million...£350 million....
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:


    As I said Gallup had Carter ahead before the debates and most of the polls showed he got a bigger convention bounce than Reagan, the debates helped Reagan on his way to a 9% victory margin, Trump only needs to win by 1%

    No, what you said was "Reagan trailed Carter after the conventions in 1980 but won the election in the debates." That was what I was correcting.

    Nothing to correct. Gallup had Carter with a bigger bounce than Reagan post convention, leading Reagan before the debates, Reagan leading after the debates. All pollsters had Reagan winning the debates
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited August 2016
    Here comes Mr Back of the Queue.....

    Vote Leave claiming that their polling suggested that went down like a bucket of cold sick. Was it Obama wot lost it?
  • Options
    TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    edited August 2016
    HYUFD said:

    Thrak said:

    A patronising view of the American electorate appears to go a long way to explain Trump ramping from some people.


    Remember this is the electorate which elected George W Bush, not once but twice. (Not that our electorate is much better either, we almost always pick the charismatic candidate too)
    GW Bush charismatic???? Well I never.

    Here's a little PB.com graffiti:

    In November, one third of the Senate are up for election and also the entire House of Representatives. As the Republicans have, I believe, a majority in both houses, the Democrats see an opportunity to regain ground. I do hope Trump keeps shovelling.

    Concerning Trump, I thought he'd start listening to his advisers by this point. Apparently he isn't, or his advisers are nuts, or I am wrong and he'll surfboard into office.

    I'd be curious to know what some people have against Clinton, except that she's no American Tory type.
  • Options
    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    Thrak said:

    Lies get found out. The election isn't the next day after debates and Clinton and, probably, the debate moderators know that they will score highly by taking apart any lie there and then.

    You are treating the American people as stupid, imagine if you claimed the same for the UK.

    Remaindereds on here certainly seem to think Leavers are stupid, which probably says more about them than the Leavers
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,052
    SeanT said:

    @jessphillips 2h2 hours ago
    I dont want to fight for my survival or the survival of Labour anymore, I'm just going to fight for the survival of my constituents

    I feel a certain pity, then I remember Gordon Brown.

    Remember that her constituents run a Cologne NYE style gauntlet every Saturday night...
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Cookie said:

    OK, another subject - I have three daughters - 6, 4, and 1 - and am driving down to Cornwall on Saturday. Does anyone have any tips for car music acceptable to both indie-orientated adults and pre-pubescent girls? I have a playlist but it needs expanding.

    Soundtrack to Frozen

    On repeat...
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    justin124 said:

    Compared with the British and other Western electorates the American electorate has often shown itself to be lacking in intellectual insight. The idea that G W Bush and Ronald Reagan were the best on offer in 2000 and 1980 respectively does little to enhance confidence in any judgement it might make.
    On a separate issue, I was unaware that Nixon refused to debate with Humphrey in 1968.That did not prevent him being elected so there is a precedent available there should a candidate not wish to proceed with the debates.

    GW Bush maybe in 2000, we will have to disagree on Reagan. Nixon's loss to JFK in the 1960 debates undoubtedly influenced him but he was helped by the fact LBJ had refused to do any debates the previous election too, after 1960 there was not another presidential debate until Ford debated Carter in 1976
  • Options
    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    HYUFD said:

    Thrak said:

    Lies get found out. The election isn't the next day after debates and Clinton and, probably, the debate moderators know that they will score highly by taking apart any lie there and then.

    You are treating the American people as stupid, imagine if you claimed the same for the UK.

    The average debate watcher (in both the UK and US) has an attention span a little more than a gnat, they will watch the debate while chatting, surfing the net, eating nachos, going to the loo etc First impressions are everything, it happened here too, look at how Clegg shot up the polls in 2010 just through being a fresh face in the first debate. Gore's shrugging in 2000 and Nixon's refusal to wear makeup in 1960 arguably cost both the presidency. Facts after the debate rarely make much difference unless absolute whoppers, debates are not budgets
    I always try to remember that the best synonym for "politician" is "liar"
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    Toms said:

    HYUFD said:

    Thrak said:

    A patronising view of the American electorate appears to go a long way to explain Trump ramping from some people.


    Remember this is the electorate which elected George W Bush, not once but twice. (Not that our electorate is much better either, we almost always pick the charismatic candidate too)
    GW Bush charismatic???? Well I never.

    Here's a little PB.com graffiti:

    In November, one third of the Senate are up for election and also the entire House of Representatives. As the Republicans have, I believe, a majority in both houses, the Democrats see an opportunity to regain ground. I do hope Trump keeps shovelling.

    Concerning Trump, I thought he'd start listening to his advisers by this point. Apparently he isn't, or his advisers are nuts, or I am wrong and he'll surfboard into office.

    I'd be curious to know what some people have against Clinton, except that she's no American Tory type.
    He was certainly more charismatic than Gore or Kerry. Hillary has the lowest approval ratings of any recent presidential candidate, except for Donald Trump, if Trump beats her in the debates that could change
  • Options
    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited August 2016
    SeanT said:

    @jessphillips 2h2 hours ago
    I dont want to fight for my survival or the survival of Labour anymore, I'm just going to fight for the survival of my constituents

    [snip]

    She's only been an MP since 2015 ? - I wonder how those like Ma Beckett must feel...
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,100
    Will Straw was fobbed off by Corbyn for six months before he got a meeting to talk about the Referendum...

    Hur hur hur!
  • Options
    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Speedy said:

    MP_SE said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Good to see the EU governments are quite happy to import North Korean slave labour.

    ?
    Dispatches are running a bizzare story of Poland and Malta employing north Korean slave labour with full knowledge and permission of the government. Apparently Kim Jung nutso is making a £1bn exporting slave labour around the world including to some EU countries.
    So much for the EU protecting workers' rights. Turns out they make use of slave labour.
    Well immigration is a kind of modern day slavery.
    Lol
    Well it is.
    Most immigrants (especially the illegal ones )have fewer or almost no rights and are payed meager wages, and the immigration trade in the middle east looks like the slave trade.

    Also immigrants are employed for the same reasons slaves were, as cheap labour, and tend to be abused by their employers too.
    Who are the biggest miscreants in this?
  • Options
    ThrakThrak Posts: 494
    Looking at individual polls is foolish, US elections are best predicted by poll averages, both nationally and statewide, and RCP, 538 and pollster all give between a seven and eight point lead. What is with this 'the polls are level' malarkey (to paraphrase Joe Biden)?
  • Options

    Will Straw was fobbed off by Corbyn for six months before he got a meeting to talk about the Referendum...

    Hur hur hur!

    Too busy eating noodles...
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    HYUFD said:

    Thrak said:

    A patronising view of the American electorate appears to go a long way to explain Trump ramping from some people.


    Remember this is the electorate which elected George W Bush, not once but twice. (Not that our electorate is much better either, we almost always pick the charismatic candidate too)
    The Republicans have won the popular vote once in the last 6 elections.

    Criticality the Republicans don't have a Bush or Nixon on the ticket.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    £350 million...£350 million...£350 million....

    Another 3 times. It has been 6 weeks since the referendum.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited August 2016
    So far this BBC Brexit thing isn't really very enlightening. Perhaps because us on PB take a lot closer notice of this stuff anyway.
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    SeanT said:

    @jessphillips 2h2 hours ago
    I dont want to fight for my survival or the survival of Labour anymore, I'm just going to fight for the survival of my constituents

    [snip]

    She's only been an MP since 2015 ? - I wonder how those like Ma Beckett must feel...
    Or indeed Harriet Harman who bears more blame than anyone for Corbyn being elected in 2015.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    Thrak said:

    A patronising view of the American electorate appears to go a long way to explain Trump ramping from some people.


    Remember this is the electorate which elected George W Bush, not once but twice. (Not that our electorate is much better either, we almost always pick the charismatic candidate too)
    The Republicans have won the popular vote once in the last 6 elections.

    Criticality the Republicans don't have a Bush or Nixon on the ticket.
    It was IKE and Reagan who brought the Bushes and Nixons to power, ie non-political establishment figures like Trump, Hillary is a Democratic Nixon who came to power on Bill Clinton's coattails
This discussion has been closed.