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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Showing the “human face” of the PLP – how MPs who were let

SystemSystem Posts: 11,014
edited August 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Showing the “human face” of the PLP – how MPs who were let down by Corbyn can help deliver victory to Smith

“I’ll tell you what sums up Jeremy Corbyn for me. When we had a march through Westminster he made sure he was right at the front and carrying a banner. But when it came to the hard graft – talking to businesses and government he was nowhere to be seen.”

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,397
    First?
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    Interesting as ever Don.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,910
    Sorry this is just like "Not Trump" for the Labour party.

    Corbyn: 16 mentions
    Smith: 5.

    What is actually good about OWEN SMITH.

    That's what I'd want to know if I was a Labour member with a ballot.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,964
    Heidi Alexanders piece was devastating because of it’s clarity. Sje obviously knows how organsations should be run.
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    Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,599
    Anecdotal stuff, but in this small corner of the Black Country, our local MP has written (not e-mailed) to every member explaining in detail his disillusionment with Corbyn. He has a lot of respect amongst members locally, at least long standing members, and I'm sure it will sway a number to support Smith. The small number of Momentum activists locally are extremely pissed off with him as a consequence.

    On the other hand, not all constituencies have Labour MPs (!) and of those that do, not all will have Labour MPs who choose to put their head above the parapet in quite such terms.

    Off to Telford now, to see what Owen Smith has to say for himself this afternoon.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,370
    Perched infront of the late Mo Mowlam?
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,189

    Anecdotal stuff, but in this small corner of the Black Country, our local MP has written (not e-mailed) to every member explaining in detail his disillusionment with Corbyn. He has a lot of respect amongst members locally, at least long standing members, and I'm sure it will sway a number to support Smith. The small number of Momentum activists locally are extremely pissed off with him as a consequence.

    On the other hand, not all constituencies have Labour MPs (!) and of those that do, not all will have Labour MPs who choose to put their head above the parapet in quite such terms.

    Off to Telford now, to see what Owen Smith has to say for himself this afternoon.

    Make sure you get your ice cream...
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Pulpstar said:

    Sorry this is just like "Not Trump" for the Labour party.

    Corbyn: 16 mentions
    Smith: 5.

    What is actually good about OWEN SMITH.

    That's what I'd want to know if I was a Labour member with a ballot.

    I'm bored stiff with comparisons re Trump. He's a one off.

    It's like invoking Hitler as something insightful.
  • Options
    EU Leaders show their idea of negotiations. Start by dictating the tax policy we have to follow.....

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/22/cutting-corporation-tax-will-make-theresa-mays-brexit-talks-more/
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,370

    Heidi Alexanders piece was devastating because of it’s clarity. Sje obviously knows how organsations should be run.

    Why isn't she running then?
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,280
    edited August 2016
    fpt

    At room temperature, holding your nose (or not often), I would bet good money on no one being able to tell the difference between red or white wine; or whisky or brandy.

    It's quite a good party trick. Especially if there is a "wine expert" there...

    On topic...I think Lab need a good 10-15 years to work this socialism will work if only the people are given a chance stuff out of their system.

    Not as effective as a six-month campaign and then referendum for the Tories & the EU but it seems nothing else is going to work.
  • Options
    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753

    EU Leaders show their idea of negotiations. Start by dictating the tax policy we have to follow.....

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/22/cutting-corporation-tax-will-make-theresa-mays-brexit-talks-more/

    This shows the convoy mentality of many Western politicians. We must all move together.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    It'll be interesting to see how it goes.

    Labour's problem, in the event of a Smith win, is that he's bloody rubbish. He's worse than Ed Miliband. Whilst he doesn't appear as awkward, he comes out with tosh, and his rhetoric is scarcely less socialist than Chairman Corbyn.
  • Options
    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Yeh,- just one month to go until the longest running joke in modern politics comes to an end.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,849
    Fifteenth
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    tysontyson Posts: 6,050
    I wonder if the Olympics will mark a watershed in the prospects of GB. As we enter the uncertainties of Brexit negotiations and then life isolated outside the world's greatest trading block I couldn't help but think that our decline will be slow and unrelenting.

    It is wonderful to enter a thread without a cartoon character in sight.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,859
    edited August 2016

    Yeh,- just one month to go until the longest running joke in modern politics comes to an end.

    Unless Corbyn wins again, in which case one chapter in the saga closes and the next begins.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,910
    tyson said:

    I wonder if the Olympics will mark a watershed in the prospects of GB. As we enter the uncertainties of Brexit negotiations and then life isolated outside the world's greatest trading block I couldn't help but think that our decline will be slow and unrelenting.

    It is wonderful to enter a thread without a cartoon character in sight.

    Watershed ?

    Sure you don't mean zenith ?
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,280
    edited August 2016
    tyson said:

    I wonder if the Olympics will mark a watershed in the prospects of GB. As we enter the uncertainties of Brexit negotiations and then life isolated outside the world's greatest trading block I couldn't help but think that our decline will be slow and unrelenting.

    It is wonderful to enter a thread without a cartoon character in sight.

    On the other hand, at least it's not raining.

    Edit: oh wait...
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    tyson said:

    I wonder if the Olympics will mark a watershed in the prospects of GB. As we enter the uncertainties of Brexit negotiations and then life isolated outside the world's greatest trading block I couldn't help but think that our decline will be slow and unrelenting.

    It is wonderful to enter a thread without a cartoon character in sight.

    Surely a watershed moment implies greater things to come. A sentiment I agree with, but not what you were going for I imagine. Remind me, tyson, how did vibrant Italy do on the table?
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,859

    EU Leaders show their idea of negotiations. Start by dictating the tax policy we have to follow.....

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/22/cutting-corporation-tax-will-make-theresa-mays-brexit-talks-more/

    Ha ha, that's the EU's 'back of the queue' moment. We should announce 1% annual cuts in corp tax and employer NI, show we're open to the world and not taxing jobs.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Mr. Tyson, predicting rises and declines can be very difficult. Who could have foreseen the Comneni restoring Roman greatness, or the Angeli wrecking it quite so quickly?
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    At room temperature, holding your nose (or not often), I would bet good money on no one being able to tell the difference between red or white wine; or whisky or brandy.

    It's quite a good party trick. Especially if there is a "wine expert" there...

    On topic...I think Lab need a good 10-15 years to work this socialism will work if only the people are given a chance stuff out of their system.

    Not as effective as a six-month campaign and then referendum for the Tories & the EU but it seems nothing else is going to work.

    Not being able to tell the difference between whisky and brandy? That sounds a little unlikely, Mr. Topping. Perhaps if the contestants have already had a few and you are using low quality (i.e. near raw spirit blends) for the materials, I might, possibly, confuse the two. But stone cold sober, I am sure I could tell the difference and if you used say an Islay whisky such as Laphroaig up against, well, just about any brandy you care to name I am dead certain I could.

    Perhaps we could try this at the meeting with young AlanBrooke.
  • Options
    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''Surely a watershed moment implies greater things to come. A sentiment I agree with, but not what you were going for I imagine. Remind me, tyson, how did vibrant Italy do on the table?''

    Is that the 'vibrant' Italy whose economy has stood still for about a decade?
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,189
    Pulpstar said:

    tyson said:

    I wonder if the Olympics will mark a watershed in the prospects of GB. As we enter the uncertainties of Brexit negotiations and then life isolated outside the world's greatest trading block I couldn't help but think that our decline will be slow and unrelenting.

    It is wonderful to enter a thread without a cartoon character in sight.

    Watershed ?

    Sure you don't mean zenith ?
    Watershed does imply it's all downhill from here. Though that can be taken to mean the going will be easier and less hard work.
  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Personally, I hope Mr Brind is correct, Owen Smith is very left wing almost if not hard left, but however bad he might be Corbyn is worse.

    The Country deserves a decent opposition and it hasn't got one. At least if Smith wins it will not be quite such a shambles even if its still impossible for Labour to win a GE..
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Sandpit said:

    EU Leaders show their idea of negotiations. Start by dictating the tax policy we have to follow.....

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/22/cutting-corporation-tax-will-make-theresa-mays-brexit-talks-more/

    Ha ha, that's the EU's 'back of the queue' moment. We should announce 1% annual cuts in corp tax and employer NI, show we're open to the world and not taxing jobs.
    Not going to balance the budget any time soon though. :/
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    Pulpstar said:

    tyson said:

    I wonder if the Olympics will mark a watershed in the prospects of GB. As we enter the uncertainties of Brexit negotiations and then life isolated outside the world's greatest trading block I couldn't help but think that our decline will be slow and unrelenting.

    It is wonderful to enter a thread without a cartoon character in sight.

    Watershed ?

    Sure you don't mean zenith ?
    As a metaphor, isn't that more or less the same thing - the highest point before an implicit decline?
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,397

    Personally, I hope Mr Brind is correct, Owen Smith is very left wing almost if not hard left, but however bad he might be Corbyn is worse.

    The Country deserves a decent opposition and it hasn't got one. At least if Smith wins it will not be quite such a shambles even if its still impossible for Labour to win a GE..

    I must confess I'm a bit baffled by Owen Smith. Wasn't he the candidate that lost Blaenau Gwent for Labour because he was peceived as too Blairite? Has he swung massively to the left over the last eight years or so? Is is he merely recognising you now have to be right over on the left to win the Labour leadership?
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    taffys said:

    ''Surely a watershed moment implies greater things to come. A sentiment I agree with, but not what you were going for I imagine. Remind me, tyson, how did vibrant Italy do on the table?''

    Is that the 'vibrant' Italy whose economy has stood still for about a decade?

    "I'm not asking anybody," said Eeyore. "I'm just telling everybody. We can look for the North Pole, or we can play 'Here we go gathering Nuts in May' with the end part of an ants' nest. It's all the same to me."
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,936
    edited August 2016
    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    EU Leaders show their idea of negotiations. Start by dictating the tax policy we have to follow.....

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/22/cutting-corporation-tax-will-make-theresa-mays-brexit-talks-more/

    Ha ha, that's the EU's 'back of the queue' moment. We should announce 1% annual cuts in corp tax and employer NI, show we're open to the world and not taxing jobs.
    Not going to balance the budget any time soon though. :/
    Perhaps the price for tariff free entry for the Irish into our market will be Corp Tax harmony to our rate....

    :)

    Off topic - has anyone been watching AMC's Halt and Catch Fire? Really enjoying it. Think Mad Men with computer heads rather than creatives.
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    MontyHallMontyHall Posts: 226
    "Despite the golden news from Rio, the former Shadow Health Secretary and the Mayor of London Sadiq Khan elbowed their way on to the front pages of the Guardian and Observer with their devastating critiques of Corbyn’s failure as a leader"

    The Guardian and The Observer don't think the news from Rio is Golden though do they?
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,012
    A dreadful warning for fanboys and girls everywhere.

    https://twitter.com/ScotlandNow/status/767703391019687936
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,280

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    At room temperature, holding your nose (or not often), I would bet good money on no one being able to tell the difference between red or white wine; or whisky or brandy.

    It's quite a good party trick. Especially if there is a "wine expert" there...

    On topic...I think Lab need a good 10-15 years to work this socialism will work if only the people are given a chance stuff out of their system.

    Not as effective as a six-month campaign and then referendum for the Tories & the EU but it seems nothing else is going to work.

    Not being able to tell the difference between whisky and brandy? That sounds a little unlikely, Mr. Topping. Perhaps if the contestants have already had a few and you are using low quality (i.e. near raw spirit blends) for the materials, I might, possibly, confuse the two. But stone cold sober, I am sure I could tell the difference and if you used say an Islay whisky such as Laphroaig up against, well, just about any brandy you care to name I am dead certain I could.

    Perhaps we could try this at the meeting with young AlanBrooke.
    Ha well be clear no one is going to waste decent or even half decent whisky or brandy if they are stone cold sober! I look forward to the challenge when we meet. In the meantime, perhaps try it yourself (sober or otherwise), see how you get on and report back.

    I promise likewise to enter into an intensive training programme also before we eventually do meet.
  • Options
    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Ah the weekly Don Brind anti Corbyn pro Smith thread .
    What we need is some independent polling evidence to see if this is just wishful thinking or actually true or not .
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,189
    Cookie said:

    Personally, I hope Mr Brind is correct, Owen Smith is very left wing almost if not hard left, but however bad he might be Corbyn is worse.

    The Country deserves a decent opposition and it hasn't got one. At least if Smith wins it will not be quite such a shambles even if its still impossible for Labour to win a GE..

    I must confess I'm a bit baffled by Owen Smith. Wasn't he the candidate that lost Blaenau Gwent for Labour because he was peceived as too Blairite? Has he swung massively to the left over the last eight years or so? Is is he merely recognising you now have to be right over on the left to win the Labour leadership?
    The latter. It would be amusing if he won and then swung back to the centre.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    Personally, I hope Mr Brind is correct, Owen Smith is very left wing almost if not hard left, but however bad he might be Corbyn is worse.

    The Country deserves a decent opposition and it hasn't got one. At least if Smith wins it will not be quite such a shambles even if its still impossible for Labour to win a GE..

    Smith was a Blairite when it was fashionable - a complete phoney.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,936

    Pulpstar said:

    tyson said:

    I wonder if the Olympics will mark a watershed in the prospects of GB. As we enter the uncertainties of Brexit negotiations and then life isolated outside the world's greatest trading block I couldn't help but think that our decline will be slow and unrelenting.

    It is wonderful to enter a thread without a cartoon character in sight.

    Watershed ?

    Sure you don't mean zenith ?
    As a metaphor, isn't that more or less the same thing - the highest point before an implicit decline?
    I think high water mark is what tyson meant to say.

    Watershed generally implies some break or turning point - pretty sure there is no implicit value judgement.
  • Options
    Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    PlatoSaid said:

    taffys said:

    ''Surely a watershed moment implies greater things to come. A sentiment I agree with, but not what you were going for I imagine. Remind me, tyson, how did vibrant Italy do on the table?''

    Is that the 'vibrant' Italy whose economy has stood still for about a decade?

    "I'm not asking anybody," said Eeyore. "I'm just telling everybody. We can look for the North Pole, or we can play 'Here we go gathering Nuts in May' with the end part of an ants' nest. It's all the same to me."
    :D
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Cookie said:

    Personally, I hope Mr Brind is correct, Owen Smith is very left wing almost if not hard left, but however bad he might be Corbyn is worse.

    The Country deserves a decent opposition and it hasn't got one. At least if Smith wins it will not be quite such a shambles even if its still impossible for Labour to win a GE..

    I must confess I'm a bit baffled by Owen Smith. Wasn't he the candidate that lost Blaenau Gwent for Labour because he was peceived as too Blairite? Has he swung massively to the left over the last eight years or so? Is is he merely recognising you now have to be right over on the left to win the Labour leadership?
    Ask NPEXMP.. he masqueraded as a reasonable Blairite and was then converted to the DARK Side.
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,936

    Ah the weekly Don Brind anti Corbyn pro Smith thread .
    What we need is some independent polling evidence to see if this is just wishful thinking or actually true or not .

    We're believing polling again, are we?

  • Options
    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    edited August 2016
    Sandpit said:

    EU Leaders show their idea of negotiations. Start by dictating the tax policy we have to follow.....

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/22/cutting-corporation-tax-will-make-theresa-mays-brexit-talks-more/

    Ha ha, that's the EU's 'back of the queue' moment. We should announce 1% annual cuts in corp tax and employer NI, show we're open to the world and not taxing jobs.
    Afternoon all.

    Reading the story, it's the just the Swedish leader opining on the subject. More importantly, Merkel, Hollande and Renzi are meeting this afternoon to discuss (amongst other things) Brexit. Let's see if we get any smoke signals from that conversation.
  • Options
    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    Cookie said:

    Personally, I hope Mr Brind is correct, Owen Smith is very left wing almost if not hard left, but however bad he might be Corbyn is worse.

    The Country deserves a decent opposition and it hasn't got one. At least if Smith wins it will not be quite such a shambles even if its still impossible for Labour to win a GE..

    I must confess I'm a bit baffled by Owen Smith. Wasn't he the candidate that lost Blaenau Gwent for Labour because he was peceived as too Blairite? Has he swung massively to the left over the last eight years or so? Is is he merely recognising you now have to be right over on the left to win the Labour leadership?
    His position is that Jeremy is basically spot-on policy-wise but lacks leadership qualities and the ability to reach out to the floating voters of Nuneaton. He's a pretendy socialist.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    On topic, there's undoubtedly a swell of opinion vocalising against Corbyn. The tricky bit is working out how much of it is changed minds and how much is voices that were previously quiet(er) now being raised - and consequently, how many undecided voters are switching.

    My gut instinct is to agree with Don that this is closer than some would have it and certainly closer than the 5:1 CLP nominations make it appear but at the same time, we can't ignore those nominations, or the polls from earlier on in the campaign, dated though they now are. I could well see Corbyn winning with a smaller share in a two-way contest this year than he achieved last year in a four-way. Considering the relative quality of the opposition and the change in membership since last year, that wouldn't be too impressive. But it would still be a win.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,910

    A dreadful warning for fanboys and girls everywhere.

    https://twitter.com/ScotlandNow/status/767703391019687936

    You need to hit the gym for this sort of cosplay.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited August 2016
    Don is very good at providing articles showing why it would be good for the Labour Party if Smith were to win (or, at least, Corbyn to lose). But:

    If wishes were horses, beggars would ride
    If turnips were swords I'd have one by my side.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    PlatoSaid said:

    Personally, I hope Mr Brind is correct, Owen Smith is very left wing almost if not hard left, but however bad he might be Corbyn is worse.

    The Country deserves a decent opposition and it hasn't got one. At least if Smith wins it will not be quite such a shambles even if its still impossible for Labour to win a GE..

    Smith was a Blairite when it was fashionable - a complete phoney.
    NickP is still a Blairite as well as a Corbynite. The beauties of the fourth dimension.
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    tamtamtamtam Posts: 4
    I think there is movement towards Owen Smith from the baseline. How much is difficult to gauge. When is the YouGov poll out?
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,280
    Smith has to do the socialist walk because with the sheer weight of numbers supporting (or having supported) Jezza, there ain't no way a Blairite - and we know how broad that description can be made to apply - is getting within a country mile of the leadership.

    So say: look I'm not even close to the centre ground; but I'm not your favourite uncle/geography teacher whom you wouldn't trust to nip out and buy a pint of milk; I scrub up ok as your archetypal middle-aged, identikit politician, the likes of which we have been electing to office for generations; and, let me say this again, I am a true red and proud of it, come on guys, power to the workers, and all that.

    And then get elected. And then resign shortly thereafter, and let someone actually electable take over.

    It is positively Mandelsonian in its artifice.

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,910

    Don is very good at providing articles showing why it would be good for the Labour Party if Smith were to win (or, at least, Corbyn to lose). But:

    If wishes were horses, beggars would ride
    If turnips were swords I'd have one by my side.

    @Malcolmg Would have a whole army :o
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    John_M said:

    Sandpit said:

    EU Leaders show their idea of negotiations. Start by dictating the tax policy we have to follow.....

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/22/cutting-corporation-tax-will-make-theresa-mays-brexit-talks-more/

    Ha ha, that's the EU's 'back of the queue' moment. We should announce 1% annual cuts in corp tax and employer NI, show we're open to the world and not taxing jobs.
    Afternoon all.

    Reading the story, it's the just the Swedish leader opining on the subject. More importantly, Merkel, Hollande and Renzi are meeting this afternoon to discuss (amongst other things) Brexit. Let's see if we get any smoke signals from that conversation.
    The word is that Renzi is going to ask for no deal at all with the UK as an official policy so he can win his referendum in a few weeks. He thinks that if the UK can negotiate a favourable deal with the EU then M5S will be able to point at said deal and win a mandate to take Italy out of the EU after elections resulting from the referendum defeat. That's what the commission have been worried about in the "mustn't allow leavers to benefit from leaving" stakes, Italy is seen as a nation which is close to saying "enough".

    Merkel isn't minded to do that as it would be domestically tough to cut Britain out of the single market given that 2m German jobs depend on our trade deficit with them.
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    SandraMSandraM Posts: 206

    A dreadful warning for fanboys and girls everywhere.

    https://twitter.com/ScotlandNow/status/767703391019687936

    I don't watch GOT but I thought the weddings in it generally end in massacres so why would anyone want a GOT-themed wedding?

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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    Mortimer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tyson said:

    I wonder if the Olympics will mark a watershed in the prospects of GB. As we enter the uncertainties of Brexit negotiations and then life isolated outside the world's greatest trading block I couldn't help but think that our decline will be slow and unrelenting.

    It is wonderful to enter a thread without a cartoon character in sight.

    Watershed ?

    Sure you don't mean zenith ?
    As a metaphor, isn't that more or less the same thing - the highest point before an implicit decline?
    I think high water mark is what tyson meant to say.

    Watershed generally implies some break or turning point - pretty sure there is no implicit value judgement.
    A watershed in geography is that point that divides the catchment area of one river / river-system from that of another; invariably a ridge or other high plateau. In other words, where both sides are downwards (although walking along a watershed can still be in an upwards direction).
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Mr/Miss Tamtam, welcome to pb.com.

    Mr. Max, interesting on Italy.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Holiday-makers were left shocked after a police officer’s gun was reportedly accidentally fired on board.

    The Vueling aircraft was waiting to leave Ibiza to travel to Madrid-Barajas airport in Spain when the weapon went off in front of alarmed passengers.

    The pistol discharged inside the National Police agent’s case as he handed it over to the pilot for safe-keeping.

    Luckily, the bullet fired into the agent’s luggage, avoiding him and all other passengers, Spanish media reported...

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/terror-as-police-officers-gun-goes-off-inside-cabin-in-front-of-passengers-on-ibiza-flight-a3326591.html
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    For anyone nerdy

    Popular Mechanics
    NASA Just Made All Its Research Free Online https://t.co/V8ncFJxP13 https://t.co/2YGIZQqK3n
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''Merkel isn't minded to do that as it would be domestically tough to cut Britain out of the single market given that 2m German jobs depend on our trade deficit with them.''

    Sounds like its going to be a bit of a tough meeting, then.
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    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    taffys said:

    EU Leaders show their idea of negotiations. Start by dictating the tax policy we have to follow.....

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/22/cutting-corporation-tax-will-make-theresa-mays-brexit-talks-more/

    This shows the convoy mentality of many Western politicians. We must all move together.
    Indeed, like a nasty spouse after a divorce, every utterance convinces you more that you made the right decision.
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    Mortimer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tyson said:

    I wonder if the Olympics will mark a watershed in the prospects of GB. As we enter the uncertainties of Brexit negotiations and then life isolated outside the world's greatest trading block I couldn't help but think that our decline will be slow and unrelenting.

    It is wonderful to enter a thread without a cartoon character in sight.

    Watershed ?

    Sure you don't mean zenith ?
    As a metaphor, isn't that more or less the same thing - the highest point before an implicit decline?
    I think high water mark is what tyson meant to say.

    Watershed generally implies some break or turning point - pretty sure there is no implicit value judgement.
    A watershed in geography is that point that divides the catchment area of one river / river-system from that of another; invariably a ridge or other high plateau. In other words, where both sides are downwards (although walking along a watershed can still be in an upwards direction).
    Interestingly (for me at least), watershed is derived from the German "Wasserscheide" (literally "water divide").

    Presumably the bodies of water on either side of a watershed are at approximately the same level?
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    MaxPB said:

    tyson said:

    I wonder if the Olympics will mark a watershed in the prospects of GB. As we enter the uncertainties of Brexit negotiations and then life isolated outside the world's greatest trading block I couldn't help but think that our decline will be slow and unrelenting.

    It is wonderful to enter a thread without a cartoon character in sight.

    Surely a watershed moment implies greater things to come. A sentiment I agree with, but not what you were going for I imagine. Remind me, tyson, how did vibrant Italy do on the table?
    You mean on the racism table where Italy was first in Europe?
  • Options
    Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    Mortimer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tyson said:

    I wonder if the Olympics will mark a watershed in the prospects of GB. As we enter the uncertainties of Brexit negotiations and then life isolated outside the world's greatest trading block I couldn't help but think that our decline will be slow and unrelenting.

    It is wonderful to enter a thread without a cartoon character in sight.

    Watershed ?

    Sure you don't mean zenith ?
    As a metaphor, isn't that more or less the same thing - the highest point before an implicit decline?
    I think high water mark is what tyson meant to say.

    Watershed generally implies some break or turning point - pretty sure there is no implicit value judgement.
    A watershed in geography is that point that divides the catchment area of one river / river-system from that of another; invariably a ridge or other high plateau. In other words, where both sides are downwards (although walking along a watershed can still be in an upwards direction).
    Interestingly (for me at least), watershed is derived from the German "Wasserscheide" (literally "water divide").

    Presumably the bodies of water on either side of a watershed are at approximately the same level?
    Only insofar as they are ultimately the sea. A watershed is simply where the rivers start flowing in the other direction (down the other side of the mountain).
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    fpt

    At room temperature, holding your nose (or not often), I would bet good money on no one being able to tell the difference between red or white wine; or whisky or brandy.

    It's quite a good party trick. Especially if there is a "wine expert" there...

    On topic...I think Lab need a good 10-15 years to work this socialism will work if only the people are given a chance stuff out of their system.

    Not as effective as a six-month campaign and then referendum for the Tories & the EU but it seems nothing else is going to work.

    Not being able to tell the difference between whisky and brandy? That sounds a little unlikely, Mr. Topping. Perhaps if the contestants have already had a few and you are using low quality (i.e. near raw spirit blends) for the materials, I might, possibly, confuse the two. But stone cold sober, I am sure I could tell the difference and if you used say an Islay whisky such as Laphroaig up against, well, just about any brandy you care to name I am dead certain I could.

    Perhaps we could try this at the meeting with young AlanBrooke.
    Ha well be clear no one is going to waste decent or even half decent whisky or brandy if they are stone cold sober! I look forward to the challenge when we meet. In the meantime, perhaps try it yourself (sober or otherwise), see how you get on and report back.

    I promise likewise to enter into an intensive training programme also before we eventually do meet.
    Another challenge is to blindfold someone and tell them based on nose and taste alone to identify brandy, rum, vodka and gin. (You could throw in whisky, but to me that is too distinct a taste, although many can't even differentiate that). The times I have seen this challenge done, results are in line with pure random chance ...
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    ONS
    Now #Olympics2016 has closed, see how each country's economy compares to their medal haul https://t.co/2SoYrdWv4d https://t.co/k5NYCAbPnf
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    Mortimer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tyson said:

    I wonder if the Olympics will mark a watershed in the prospects of GB. As we enter the uncertainties of Brexit negotiations and then life isolated outside the world's greatest trading block I couldn't help but think that our decline will be slow and unrelenting.

    It is wonderful to enter a thread without a cartoon character in sight.

    Watershed ?

    Sure you don't mean zenith ?
    As a metaphor, isn't that more or less the same thing - the highest point before an implicit decline?
    I think high water mark is what tyson meant to say.

    Watershed generally implies some break or turning point - pretty sure there is no implicit value judgement.
    A watershed in geography is that point that divides the catchment area of one river / river-system from that of another; invariably a ridge or other high plateau. In other words, where both sides are downwards (although walking along a watershed can still be in an upwards direction).
    Interestingly (for me at least), watershed is derived from the German "Wasserscheide" (literally "water divide").

    Presumably the bodies of water on either side of a watershed are at approximately the same level?
    No, the term's relating to the land. The 'divide' in question is the peak, ridge or the like in the topography that causes water on one side to flow into (say) the Aire and the other side to flow into the Calder.
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    edited August 2016
    Ishmael_X said:

    Mortimer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tyson said:

    I wonder if the Olympics will mark a watershed in the prospects of GB. As we enter the uncertainties of Brexit negotiations and then life isolated outside the world's greatest trading block I couldn't help but think that our decline will be slow and unrelenting.

    It is wonderful to enter a thread without a cartoon character in sight.

    Watershed ?

    Sure you don't mean zenith ?
    As a metaphor, isn't that more or less the same thing - the highest point before an implicit decline?
    I think high water mark is what tyson meant to say.

    Watershed generally implies some break or turning point - pretty sure there is no implicit value judgement.
    A watershed in geography is that point that divides the catchment area of one river / river-system from that of another; invariably a ridge or other high plateau. In other words, where both sides are downwards (although walking along a watershed can still be in an upwards direction).
    Interestingly (for me at least), watershed is derived from the German "Wasserscheide" (literally "water divide").

    Presumably the bodies of water on either side of a watershed are at approximately the same level?
    Only insofar as they are ultimately the sea. A watershed is simply where the rivers start flowing in the other direction (down the other side of the mountain).
    The Caspian and the Aral are an example of where the bodies of water are not at the same level, are they not?

    Edit: Caspian -92 feet; Aral +138 feet
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,254

    Mortimer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tyson said:

    I wonder if the Olympics will mark a watershed in the prospects of GB. As we enter the uncertainties of Brexit negotiations and then life isolated outside the world's greatest trading block I couldn't help but think that our decline will be slow and unrelenting.

    It is wonderful to enter a thread without a cartoon character in sight.

    Watershed ?

    Sure you don't mean zenith ?
    As a metaphor, isn't that more or less the same thing - the highest point before an implicit decline?
    I think high water mark is what tyson meant to say.

    Watershed generally implies some break or turning point - pretty sure there is no implicit value judgement.
    A watershed in geography is that point that divides the catchment area of one river / river-system from that of another; invariably a ridge or other high plateau. In other words, where both sides are downwards (although walking along a watershed can still be in an upwards direction).
    Interestingly (for me at least), watershed is derived from the German "Wasserscheide" (literally "water divide").

    Presumably the bodies of water on either side of a watershed are at approximately the same level?
    No, the term's relating to the land. The 'divide' in question is the peak, ridge or the like in the topography that causes water on one side to flow into (say) the Aire and the other side to flow into the Calder.
    Since when did Aire and Calder replace the classic example of Rhine and Danube? Doubtless more of this Brexit nonsense.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,936

    Mortimer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tyson said:

    I wonder if the Olympics will mark a watershed in the prospects of GB. As we enter the uncertainties of Brexit negotiations and then life isolated outside the world's greatest trading block I couldn't help but think that our decline will be slow and unrelenting.

    It is wonderful to enter a thread without a cartoon character in sight.

    Watershed ?

    Sure you don't mean zenith ?
    As a metaphor, isn't that more or less the same thing - the highest point before an implicit decline?
    I think high water mark is what tyson meant to say.

    Watershed generally implies some break or turning point - pretty sure there is no implicit value judgement.
    A watershed in geography is that point that divides the catchment area of one river / river-system from that of another; invariably a ridge or other high plateau. In other words, where both sides are downwards (although walking along a watershed can still be in an upwards direction).
    Thanks DH - I love PB for things like this.

    Anyone know if the TV watershed is still in place? That is where I hear the phrase most often used....
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    On drinks, one of the most amusing classes we had at school was a RESH lesson (dicking about, occasionally learning stuff like spelling your own name wrong on a CV won't help your employment prospects) when we had to rank drinks in order of strength.

    Half the class was Muslim, and their answers were not necessarily accurate. Despite being practically teetotal even then, I got them all right [did guess the order of vodka/whisky though].

    Never had vodka. Only ever had rum in chocolate. One suspects the PB pirates are more au fait with rum.

    I have had Chinese white wine which, thankfully, was served in a thimble [give or take].
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,254
    PlatoSaid said:

    ONS
    Now #Olympics2016 has closed, see how each country's economy compares to their medal haul https://t.co/2SoYrdWv4d https://t.co/k5NYCAbPnf

    We celebrate the professionalisation of sport at the same time as condemning the professionalisation of politics. Discuss (or "compare and contrast", as those old essay questions used to say...).
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Mr. B2, the Rhine and Danube are also nice examples for the shift of practical power in the Empire from Trajan's time (he had the Rhine legions on-side) to the Danubian soldier-generals that eventually resolved the crisis of the Third Century (most notably, Claudius, Aurelian and Diocletian).
  • Options

    Mortimer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tyson said:

    I wonder if the Olympics will mark a watershed in the prospects of GB. As we enter the uncertainties of Brexit negotiations and then life isolated outside the world's greatest trading block I couldn't help but think that our decline will be slow and unrelenting.

    It is wonderful to enter a thread without a cartoon character in sight.

    Watershed ?

    Sure you don't mean zenith ?
    As a metaphor, isn't that more or less the same thing - the highest point before an implicit decline?
    I think high water mark is what tyson meant to say.

    Watershed generally implies some break or turning point - pretty sure there is no implicit value judgement.
    A watershed in geography is that point that divides the catchment area of one river / river-system from that of another; invariably a ridge or other high plateau. In other words, where both sides are downwards (although walking along a watershed can still be in an upwards direction).
    Interestingly (for me at least), watershed is derived from the German "Wasserscheide" (literally "water divide").

    Presumably the bodies of water on either side of a watershed are at approximately the same level?
    No, the term's relating to the land. The 'divide' in question is the peak, ridge or the like in the topography that causes water on one side to flow into (say) the Aire and the other side to flow into the Calder.
    Thank you. So, in that sense, tyson was correct in his figurative use of the term (although I disagree with his analysis!).
  • Options
    Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    MTimT said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    Mortimer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tyson said:

    I wonder if the Olympics will mark a watershed in the prospects of GB. As we enter the uncertainties of Brexit negotiations and then life isolated outside the world's greatest trading block I couldn't help but think that our decline will be slow and unrelenting.

    It is wonderful to enter a thread without a cartoon character in sight.

    Watershed ?

    Sure you don't mean zenith ?
    As a metaphor, isn't that more or less the same thing - the highest point before an implicit decline?
    I think high water mark is what tyson meant to say.

    Watershed generally implies some break or turning point - pretty sure there is no implicit value judgement.
    A watershed in geography is that point that divides the catchment area of one river / river-system from that of another; invariably a ridge or other high plateau. In other words, where both sides are downwards (although walking along a watershed can still be in an upwards direction).
    Interestingly (for me at least), watershed is derived from the German "Wasserscheide" (literally "water divide").

    Presumably the bodies of water on either side of a watershed are at approximately the same level?
    Only insofar as they are ultimately the sea. A watershed is simply where the rivers start flowing in the other direction (down the other side of the mountain).
    The Caspian and the Aral are an example of where the bodies of water are not at the same level, are they not?

    Edit: Caspian -92 feet; Aral +138 feet
    That seems to be right, if the Aral Sea still counts as "a body of water"!
  • Options
    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831

    Heidi Alexanders piece was devastating because of it’s clarity. Sje obviously knows how organsations should be run.

    Why isn't she running then?
    She has never demonstrated any political or leadership skills (thus fitting in well with the rest of her cohort) - but perhaps she is self-aware enough to accept her limitations.
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    IanB2 said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    ONS
    Now #Olympics2016 has closed, see how each country's economy compares to their medal haul https://t.co/2SoYrdWv4d https://t.co/k5NYCAbPnf

    We celebrate the professionalisation of sport at the same time as condemning the professionalisation of politics. Discuss (or "compare and contrast", as those old essay questions used to say...).
    The big difference is that the professionalization of sports has improved performances overall, whereas the opposite is true in politics.

    Politics relies on having a pool of participants with a wide array of complementary skills and experiences. 'Professionalising' it only achieves a very significant narrowing of both.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,254

    Mr. B2, the Rhine and Danube are also nice examples for the shift of practical power in the Empire from Trajan's time (he had the Rhine legions on-side) to the Danubian soldier-generals that eventually resolved the crisis of the Third Century (most notably, Claudius, Aurelian and Diocletian).

    That, along with most of your arcane Roman-era knowledge, I will have to take your word for.

    The fact remains, as any ambitious raindrop knows all too well, the peak of their aspiration is to be falling from the sky somewhere near Basle in Switzerland and wondering whether they are destined for the North or Black Sea. When, prior to young Herdson's attempt to re-write the geographical syllabus, did you ever hear a raindrop so excited to be falling over the Pennines?
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,949
    SandraM said:

    A dreadful warning for fanboys and girls everywhere.

    https://twitter.com/ScotlandNow/status/767703391019687936

    I don't watch GOT but I thought the weddings in it generally end in massacres so why would anyone want a GOT-themed wedding?

    Depends if you like the in laws or not.
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Ishmael_X said:

    MTimT said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    Mortimer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tyson said:

    I wonder if the Olympics will mark a watershed in the prospects of GB. As we enter the uncertainties of Brexit negotiations and then life isolated outside the world's greatest trading block I couldn't help but think that our decline will be slow and unrelenting.

    It is wonderful to enter a thread without a cartoon character in sight.

    Watershed ?

    Sure you don't mean zenith ?
    As a metaphor, isn't that more or less the same thing - the highest point before an implicit decline?
    I think high water mark is what tyson meant to say.

    Watershed generally implies some break or turning point - pretty sure there is no implicit value judgement.
    A watershed in geography is that point that divides the catchment area of one river / river-system from that of another; invariably a ridge or other high plateau. In other words, where both sides are downwards (although walking along a watershed can still be in an upwards direction).
    Interestingly (for me at least), watershed is derived from the German "Wasserscheide" (literally "water divide").

    Presumably the bodies of water on either side of a watershed are at approximately the same level?
    Only insofar as they are ultimately the sea. A watershed is simply where the rivers start flowing in the other direction (down the other side of the mountain).
    The Caspian and the Aral are an example of where the bodies of water are not at the same level, are they not?

    Edit: Caspian -92 feet; Aral +138 feet
    That seems to be right, if the Aral Sea still counts as "a body of water"!
    :) Interestingly enough, when they both had water, their levels used to oscillate over long periods of time: as one dropped, the other elevated.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,938
    taffys said:

    ''Merkel isn't minded to do that as it would be domestically tough to cut Britain out of the single market given that 2m German jobs depend on our trade deficit with them.''

    Sounds like its going to be a bit of a tough meeting, then.

    Hmmm... 2 million? That sounds like the 3m Clegg number.

    We're not even a top three export market for Germany; and I believe we account for just under 2% of German value add.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,938

    Mortimer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tyson said:

    I wonder if the Olympics will mark a watershed in the prospects of GB. As we enter the uncertainties of Brexit negotiations and then life isolated outside the world's greatest trading block I couldn't help but think that our decline will be slow and unrelenting.

    It is wonderful to enter a thread without a cartoon character in sight.

    Watershed ?

    Sure you don't mean zenith ?
    As a metaphor, isn't that more or less the same thing - the highest point before an implicit decline?
    I think high water mark is what tyson meant to say.

    Watershed generally implies some break or turning point - pretty sure there is no implicit value judgement.
    A watershed in geography is that point that divides the catchment area of one river / river-system from that of another; invariably a ridge or other high plateau. In other words, where both sides are downwards (although walking along a watershed can still be in an upwards direction).
    Interestingly (for me at least), watershed is derived from the German "Wasserscheide" (literally "water divide").

    Presumably the bodies of water on either side of a watershed are at approximately the same level?
    Ultimately the bodies of water are the sea, surely.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Mr. B2, the 2nd and 3rd centuries AD are hardly arcane. They're almost in the Middle Ages.

    If anyone's interested, here's an old review, by me, about the best emperor nobody's ever heard of:
    http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.co.uk/2011/11/review-restorer-of-world-emperor.html
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    Mortimer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tyson said:

    I wonder if the Olympics will mark a watershed in the prospects of GB. As we enter the uncertainties of Brexit negotiations and then life isolated outside the world's greatest trading block I couldn't help but think that our decline will be slow and unrelenting.

    It is wonderful to enter a thread without a cartoon character in sight.

    Watershed ?

    Sure you don't mean zenith ?
    As a metaphor, isn't that more or less the same thing - the highest point before an implicit decline?
    I think high water mark is what tyson meant to say.

    Watershed generally implies some break or turning point - pretty sure there is no implicit value judgement.
    A watershed in geography is that point that divides the catchment area of one river / river-system from that of another; invariably a ridge or other high plateau. In other words, where both sides are downwards (although walking along a watershed can still be in an upwards direction).
    Interestingly (for me at least), watershed is derived from the German "Wasserscheide" (literally "water divide").

    Presumably the bodies of water on either side of a watershed are at approximately the same level?
    No, the term's relating to the land. The 'divide' in question is the peak, ridge or the like in the topography that causes water on one side to flow into (say) the Aire and the other side to flow into the Calder.
    Thank you. So, in that sense, tyson was correct in his figurative use of the term (although I disagree with his analysis!).

    Mr Herdson. Isn't the term also (perhaps lazily) also used to describe the entire area of land which supplies water to the rivers and lakes of the system. For example, the watershed of the Chesapeake is 64,000 square miles:

    http://www.chesapeakebay.net/discover/baywatershed
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,254
    MTimT said:

    IanB2 said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    ONS
    Now #Olympics2016 has closed, see how each country's economy compares to their medal haul https://t.co/2SoYrdWv4d https://t.co/k5NYCAbPnf

    We celebrate the professionalisation of sport at the same time as condemning the professionalisation of politics. Discuss (or "compare and contrast", as those old essay questions used to say...).
    The big difference is that the professionalization of sports has improved performances overall, whereas the opposite is true in politics.

    Politics relies on having a pool of participants with a wide array of complementary skills and experiences. 'Professionalising' it only achieves a very significant narrowing of both.
    Yes, that's my feeling as well. With two qualifications:

    Surely there was something rather admirable about the 'old days' when you'd be watching the 10000m final and be told that the leading runner was a dentist who trained down the park at weekends, or something similar?

    And I do fear that sport will go the way of (especially American) politics where the only people in with a chance of Olympic glory will have been snatched from their parents during teenage and held in some state-funded sports training camp for years, fed on state-funded food ('nutrition', I believe it is called nowadays?) and allowed out only for brief interludes of celebration following their latest victory.
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    rcs1000 said:

    Mortimer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tyson said:

    I wonder if the Olympics will mark a watershed in the prospects of GB. As we enter the uncertainties of Brexit negotiations and then life isolated outside the world's greatest trading block I couldn't help but think that our decline will be slow and unrelenting.

    It is wonderful to enter a thread without a cartoon character in sight.

    Watershed ?

    Sure you don't mean zenith ?
    As a metaphor, isn't that more or less the same thing - the highest point before an implicit decline?
    I think high water mark is what tyson meant to say.

    Watershed generally implies some break or turning point - pretty sure there is no implicit value judgement.
    A watershed in geography is that point that divides the catchment area of one river / river-system from that of another; invariably a ridge or other high plateau. In other words, where both sides are downwards (although walking along a watershed can still be in an upwards direction).
    Interestingly (for me at least), watershed is derived from the German "Wasserscheide" (literally "water divide").

    Presumably the bodies of water on either side of a watershed are at approximately the same level?
    Ultimately the bodies of water are the sea, surely.
    Not always. Salt lakes (Dead Sea, Lac Abbe, Caspian Sea, Aral Sea, etc...)
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    PlatoSaid said:

    ONS
    Now #Olympics2016 has closed, see how each country's economy compares to their medal haul https://t.co/2SoYrdWv4d https://t.co/k5NYCAbPnf

    I don't think any other country spent £4bn on sports in the last 20 years from lottery funding, which is, effectively, a tax on poor people.
  • Options
    Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    rcs1000 said:

    Mortimer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tyson said:

    I wonder if the Olympics will mark a watershed in the prospects of GB. As we enter the uncertainties of Brexit negotiations and then life isolated outside the world's greatest trading block I couldn't help but think that our decline will be slow and unrelenting.

    It is wonderful to enter a thread without a cartoon character in sight.

    Watershed ?

    Sure you don't mean zenith ?
    As a metaphor, isn't that more or less the same thing - the highest point before an implicit decline?
    I think high water mark is what tyson meant to say.

    Watershed generally implies some break or turning point - pretty sure there is no implicit value judgement.
    A watershed in geography is that point that divides the catchment area of one river / river-system from that of another; invariably a ridge or other high plateau. In other words, where both sides are downwards (although walking along a watershed can still be in an upwards direction).
    Interestingly (for me at least), watershed is derived from the German "Wasserscheide" (literally "water divide").

    Presumably the bodies of water on either side of a watershed are at approximately the same level?
    Ultimately the bodies of water are the sea, surely.
    Or endorheic lakes.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,254

    Mortimer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tyson said:

    I wonder if the Olympics will mark a watershed in the prospects of GB. As we enter the uncertainties of Brexit negotiations and then life isolated outside the world's greatest trading block I couldn't help but think that our decline will be slow and unrelenting.

    It is wonderful to enter a thread without a cartoon character in sight.

    Watershed ?

    Sure you don't mean zenith ?
    As a metaphor, isn't that more or less the same thing - the highest point before an implicit decline?
    I think high water mark is what tyson meant to say.

    Watershed generally implies some break or turning point - pretty sure there is no implicit value judgement.
    A watershed in geography is that point that divides the catchment area of one river / river-system from that of another; invariably a ridge or other high plateau. In other words, where both sides are downwards (although walking along a watershed can still be in an upwards direction).
    Interestingly (for me at least), watershed is derived from the German "Wasserscheide" (literally "water divide").

    Presumably the bodies of water on either side of a watershed are at approximately the same level?
    No, the term's relating to the land. The 'divide' in question is the peak, ridge or the like in the topography that causes water on one side to flow into (say) the Aire and the other side to flow into the Calder.
    Thank you. So, in that sense, tyson was correct in his figurative use of the term (although I disagree with his analysis!).
    "catchment" is the term you are looking for here, I think (quals: Cambridge Geography grad)
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,949
    edited August 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    taffys said:

    ''Merkel isn't minded to do that as it would be domestically tough to cut Britain out of the single market given that 2m German jobs depend on our trade deficit with them.''

    Sounds like its going to be a bit of a tough meeting, then.

    Hmmm... 2 million? That sounds like the 3m Clegg number.

    We're not even a top three export market for Germany; and I believe we account for just under 2% of German value add.
    Given that GM have put two German factories on short hours simply due to fears of a British slowdown I doubt Germany will be ignoring us

    See http://auto.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/industry/gms-opel-cuts-working-hours-at-german-plants-due-to-brexit/53770708

    Clearly that's not 2 million jobs but its a fair few and this is just one company at the final stage of production....
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    edited August 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    taffys said:

    ''Merkel isn't minded to do that as it would be domestically tough to cut Britain out of the single market given that 2m German jobs depend on our trade deficit with them.''

    Sounds like its going to be a bit of a tough meeting, then.

    Hmmm... 2 million? That sounds like the 3m Clegg number.

    We're not even a top three export market for Germany; and I believe we account for just under 2% of German value add.

    It depends how you calculate it.

    If you argue, say, that German auto exports to the UK provide the economies of scale that then enable them to achieve a better cost quality ratio that gives them a competitive advantage in domestic and other foreign markets, then you could make the argument that many more jobs than those just needed to build cars for export to the UK depend on those UK exports.

    PS That sort of calculation must be relatively more important for products which require highly expensive R&D which must be amortized over large numbers of units produced.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,189
    surbiton said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    ONS
    Now #Olympics2016 has closed, see how each country's economy compares to their medal haul https://t.co/2SoYrdWv4d https://t.co/k5NYCAbPnf

    I don't think any other country spent £4bn on sports in the last 20 years from lottery funding, which is, effectively, a tax on poor people.
    You missed out the word voluntary.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Mr. Surbiton, shame other taxes aren't that voluntary :p
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    taffys said:

    ''Merkel isn't minded to do that as it would be domestically tough to cut Britain out of the single market given that 2m German jobs depend on our trade deficit with them.''

    Sounds like its going to be a bit of a tough meeting, then.

    Don't think if Britain was not in the single market , all German exports to Britain will come to a shuddering halt. Where will I buy my BMW from ?

    I think Brexiters are still deluding themselves on what a strong hand they have. My arse !

    On the other hand, a Nissan Micra with 10% duty, I don't know...........

    Why win a vote and then not exercise it ?
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,938
    MTimT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    taffys said:

    ''Merkel isn't minded to do that as it would be domestically tough to cut Britain out of the single market given that 2m German jobs depend on our trade deficit with them.''

    Sounds like its going to be a bit of a tough meeting, then.

    Hmmm... 2 million? That sounds like the 3m Clegg number.

    We're not even a top three export market for Germany; and I believe we account for just under 2% of German value add.

    It depends how you calculate it.

    If you argue, say, that German auto exports to the UK provide the economies of scale that then enable them to achieve a better cost quality ratio that gives them a competitive advantage in domestic and other foreign markets, then you could make the argument that many more jobs than those just needed to build cars for export to the UK depend on those UK exports.
    Of course the Germans are going to be keen on a free trade agreement (for goods at least!) with the UK. But the same is true of Italy. In fact, the UK is a larger proportion of Italian exports, than it is of German exports.

    So, despite all the crap being spread around, there is almost no chance that there will not be a goods FTA. It is simply in everyone's best interests for there to be one.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,254
    edited August 2016
    surbiton said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    ONS
    Now #Olympics2016 has closed, see how each country's economy compares to their medal haul https://t.co/2SoYrdWv4d https://t.co/k5NYCAbPnf

    I don't think any other country spent £4bn on sports in the last 20 years from lottery funding, which is, effectively, a tax on poor people.
    But surely the worst thing about the lottery - especially in this 21st C era of inequality - is not the funding that gets directed to the arts and sport - but the fact that, week in week out, £2.50 is taken from the poor across the country and a new millionaire is created amongst our midst?

    It would be better to have a register of millionaires and to pick one at random each week, and drop a £million of their savings as a £2.50 income supplement to every poor family?
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    tlg86 said:

    surbiton said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    ONS
    Now #Olympics2016 has closed, see how each country's economy compares to their medal haul https://t.co/2SoYrdWv4d https://t.co/k5NYCAbPnf

    I don't think any other country spent £4bn on sports in the last 20 years from lottery funding, which is, effectively, a tax on poor people.
    You missed out the word voluntary.
    VAT is also voluntary. You don't have to spend your money. Income tax is also voluntary, you don't have to earn.
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    CookieCookie Posts: 11,397
    Ishmael_X said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Mortimer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tyson said:

    I wonder if the Olympics will mark a watershed in the prospects of GB. As we enter the uncertainties of Brexit negotiations and then life isolated outside the world's greatest trading block I couldn't help but think that our decline will be slow and unrelenting.

    It is wonderful to enter a thread without a cartoon character in sight.

    Watershed ?

    Sure you don't mean zenith ?
    As a metaphor, isn't that more or less the same thing - the highest point before an implicit decline?
    I think high water mark is what tyson meant to say.

    Watershed generally implies some break or turning point - pretty sure there is no implicit value judgement.
    A watershed in geography is that point that divides the catchment area of one river / river-system from that of another; invariably a ridge or other high plateau. In other words, where both sides are downwards (although walking along a watershed can still be in an upwards direction).
    Interestingly (for me at least), watershed is derived from the German "Wasserscheide" (literally "water divide").

    Presumably the bodies of water on either side of a watershed are at approximately the same level?
    Ultimately the bodies of water are the sea, surely.
    Or endorheic lakes.
    If the bodies of water either side of the watershed are, ultimately, the sea - as they are in all cases in the UK (excepting some relatively tiny puddles) then yes they are at the same level. But you will find watersheds in the caucasus, for example, where one side drains to the Black Sea (whic is connected to the oceans) and one to the Caspian (which is inland) where one body of water (the Black Sea, in this case) is a lot higher than the other.

    I love watersheds. Driving over to Sheffield via the A57 I am always happy to point out to the missus where we pass the weatershed between the Mersey and Trent drainage basins, and then again where we pass the watershed between the Trent and Don drainage basins (the latter both drain into the Humber but arrive at sea level at different points so I treat them as separate). She is as fascinated by this as you would expect.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Mr. 1000, it is possible for people not to co-operate even when it's in their interests.

    Mr. Surbiton, you think earning money and spending it on things like energy are voluntary? You tinker.
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    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    IanB2 said:

    MTimT said:

    IanB2 said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    ONS
    Now #Olympics2016 has closed, see how each country's economy compares to their medal haul https://t.co/2SoYrdWv4d https://t.co/k5NYCAbPnf

    We celebrate the professionalisation of sport at the same time as condemning the professionalisation of politics. Discuss (or "compare and contrast", as those old essay questions used to say...).
    The big difference is that the professionalization of sports has improved performances overall, whereas the opposite is true in politics.

    Politics relies on having a pool of participants with a wide array of complementary skills and experiences. 'Professionalising' it only achieves a very significant narrowing of both.
    Yes, that's my feeling as well. With two qualifications:

    Surely there was something rather admirable about the 'old days' when you'd be watching the 10000m final and be told that the leading runner was a dentist who trained down the park at weekends, or something similar?

    And I do fear that sport will go the way of (especially American) politics where the only people in with a chance of Olympic glory will have been snatched from their parents during teenage and held in some state-funded sports training camp for years, fed on state-funded food ('nutrition', I believe it is called nowadays?) and allowed out only for brief interludes of celebration following their latest victory.
    Surely, the athletes of the future will be selected before that - they will be genetically engineered in the lab at the blastula stage (or even at the ovum and sperm stage) so that they don't have to dope.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,254
    edited August 2016

    Mr. B2, the 2nd and 3rd centuries AD are hardly arcane. They're almost in the Middle Ages.

    If anyone's interested, here's an old review, by me, about the best emperor nobody's ever heard of:
    http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.co.uk/2011/11/review-restorer-of-world-emperor.html

    Your blog uses the surname 'White' and is reviewing a book by someone called 'White'? Is that as black and white as it seems, or all murky grey?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,938
    MTimT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    taffys said:

    ''Merkel isn't minded to do that as it would be domestically tough to cut Britain out of the single market given that 2m German jobs depend on our trade deficit with them.''

    Sounds like its going to be a bit of a tough meeting, then.

    Hmmm... 2 million? That sounds like the 3m Clegg number.

    We're not even a top three export market for Germany; and I believe we account for just under 2% of German value add.

    It depends how you calculate it.

    If you argue, say, that German auto exports to the UK provide the economies of scale that then enable them to achieve a better cost quality ratio that gives them a competitive advantage in domestic and other foreign markets, then you could make the argument that many more jobs than those just needed to build cars for export to the UK depend on those UK exports.

    PS That sort of calculation must be relatively more important for products which require highly expensive R&D which must be amortized over large numbers of units produced.
    As an aside, if that's true of the German car industry, then it must be an order of magnitude more true for the UK's car industry. If WTO tariffs existed between the UK and the EEA (which I do not believe will happen), it would result in components for Nissan's being subject to import tariffs are they entered the UK, and then tariffs on Nissan's going to ultimate customers in the EEA. That would not be an optimal outcome for the UK.
This discussion has been closed.