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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Use your political forecasting skills to enter the 2016 PB

SystemSystem Posts: 11,005
edited August 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Use your political forecasting skills to enter the 2016 PB Labour leadership PRIZE Competition

Thanks to Mark Hopkins and his NoJam widget we’ve prepared another PB Prize competition. Simply predict who’ll win the LAB contest and the winning margin. There’s a tie-breaker question as well – the turnout.

Read the full story here


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Comments

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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,011
    First like Corbyn.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    Refreshing the old thread like the bluff old traditionalist I am... :D
  • Options
    JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    Ages ago I predicted that Remain would get about 65% in the referendum, but I don't remember ever seeing the results of that predikshun competition. Did I miss it?
  • Options
    JohnLoony said:

    Ages ago I predicted that Remain would get about 65% in the referendum, but I don't remember ever seeing the results of that predikshun competition. Did I miss it?

    Good question - especially as there was supposedly a cash prize on offer for the winner from those nice folk at William Hill.
  • Options
    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    JohnLoony said:

    Ages ago I predicted that Remain would get about 65% in the referendum, but I don't remember ever seeing the results of that predikshun competition. Did I miss it?

    No. It got overlooked in the frenzy of political activity post referendum. I will put that right in the coming days.

  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,141
    The screenshot in the header has inadvertently included the final result of the election. Could we have this removed, as it ruins the fun for competition players, and also spoils it for Labour members who have signed up and paid money to participate in their sham democracy.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    The screenshot in the header has inadvertently included the final result of the election. Could we have this removed, as it ruins the fun for competition players, and also spoils it for Labour members who have signed up and paid money to participate in their sham democracy.

    MI5 have been busy!
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    RobD said:

    The screenshot in the header has inadvertently included the final result of the election. Could we have this removed, as it ruins the fun for competition players, and also spoils it for Labour members who have signed up and paid money to participate in their sham democracy.

    MI5 have been busy!
    Unfortunately, they can't do arithmetic. 61.54 to 38.46 does not give a winning margin of 10.58. And what is 0.3 of a vote?
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,123
    I can't get on to make a prediction. Not too concerned because I have absolutely no idea what turnout is likely to be like standing the various court decisions of who is eligible.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,152
    DavidL said:

    I can't get on to make a prediction. Not too concerned because I have absolutely no idea what turnout is likely to be like standing the various court decisions of who is eligible.

    The turnout figure is a tie-breaker I think, so doesn't matter as much. I managed to login a few minutes ago.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Done my entry.

    Any news on the UKIP contest? It seems to have gone quiet.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187

    Done my entry.

    Any news on the UKIP contest? It seems to have gone quiet.

    Ballot papers due out on 1 September with the result confirmed before 15 September.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited August 2016
    edit
  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    Done my entry.

    Any news on the UKIP contest? It seems to have gone quiet.

    No one cares about UKIP.. its lost its raison d'etre.. people such as Mike K are reduced to slagging off Dave(see prev thread)..
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,916
    Entered. Why are the candidates “Carbyn” and “Owen”?

    Is someone, somewhere, still hankering for the return of Dr Death?
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Done my entry.

    Any news on the UKIP contest? It seems to have gone quiet.

    No one cares about UKIP.. its lost its raison d'etre.. people such as Mike K are reduced to slagging off Dave(see prev thread)..
    It's not dead yet!

    A lot depends on what happens when the phoney war over Brexit ends, and Article 50 invoked. The Bitter Enders will not agree with anything less than total withdrawal.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,152

    Done my entry.

    Any news on the UKIP contest? It seems to have gone quiet.

    No one cares about UKIP.. its lost its raison d'etre.. people such as Mike K are reduced to slagging off Dave(see prev thread)..
    It's not dead yet!

    A lot depends on what happens when the phoney war over Brexit ends, and Article 50 invoked. The Bitter Enders will not agree with anything less than total withdrawal.
    Far too soon to say UKIP is finished. Seems there are plenty of opportunities in Northern working class constituencies where Labour is falling apart.

    Of course, Nigel could really be planning a new movement or party and then UKIP would be fighting for its life.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,152
    Yep, it is definitely deep into the 'silly season' when this is one of the DT's online top headlines:

    "Playing the bagpipes daily could be fatal, warn doctors"
  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    Done my entry.

    Any news on the UKIP contest? It seems to have gone quiet.

    No one cares about UKIP.. its lost its raison d'etre.. people such as Mike K are reduced to slagging off Dave(see prev thread)..
    It's not dead yet!

    A lot depends on what happens when the phoney war over Brexit ends, and Article 50 invoked. The Bitter Enders will not agree with anything less than total withdrawal.
    Maybe so, and it may cause Mrs May some trouble but as a party political force its finished IMHO.. It'll be Tory frothers that cause the trouble for Mrs May anyway, in the HOC UKIP its toothless.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,916

    Yep, it is definitely deep into the 'silly season' when this is one of the DT's online top headlines:

    "Playing the bagpipes daily could be fatal, warn doctors"

    Is it a desperate effort to sell a copy to malc?
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Yep, it is definitely deep into the 'silly season' when this is one of the DT's online top headlines:

    "Playing the bagpipes daily could be fatal, warn doctors"

    It is in the Daily Mail too:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3753129/Could-bagpipe-lung-Warning-toxic-mould-inside-wind-instruments-like-trombone-saxophone.html
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,258
    JohnLoony said:

    Ages ago I predicted that Remain would get about 65% in the referendum, but I don't remember ever seeing the results of that predikshun competition. Did I miss it?

    No, but don't hold your breath.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    JohnLoony said:

    Ages ago I predicted that Remain would get about 65% in the referendum, but I don't remember ever seeing the results of that predikshun competition. Did I miss it?

    No, but don't hold your breath.
    The Feb 29th NoJam predictions seem to have disappeared. Not my finest hour either, but most PBers fell flat on that one.
  • Options
    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    JohnLoony said:

    Ages ago I predicted that Remain would get about 65% in the referendum, but I don't remember ever seeing the results of that predikshun competition. Did I miss it?

    No, but don't hold your breath.
    The Feb 29th NoJam predictions seem to have disappeared. Not my finest hour either, but most PBers fell flat on that one.

    Mike has the results. As per his earlier post, he will put them out at some point.

  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,624
    I won the first 'sex, lies and the ballot box' in a PB competition, so I have a good feeling about this.
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    JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    DavidL said:

    I can't get on to make a prediction. Not too concerned because I have absolutely no idea what turnout is likely to be like standing the various court decisions of who is eligible.

    The electorate is c.647,000. Last year it was 554,272 and the turnout was 422,644.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,916
    JohnLoony said:

    DavidL said:

    I can't get on to make a prediction. Not too concerned because I have absolutely no idea what turnout is likely to be like standing the various court decisions of who is eligible.

    The electorate is c.647,000. Last year it was 554,272 and the turnout was 422,644.
    Thought it was less than that after disqualifications?
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    JohnLoony said:

    Ages ago I predicted that Remain would get about 65% in the referendum, but I don't remember ever seeing the results of that predikshun competition. Did I miss it?

    No, but don't hold your breath.
    The Feb 29th NoJam predictions seem to have disappeared. Not my finest hour either, but most PBers fell flat on that one.

    Mike has the results. As per his earlier post, he will put them out at some point.

    It is interesting to browse though.

    I am not suggesting the task has been delegated to Russian boxing judges!
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,280
    edited August 2016

    JohnLoony said:

    Ages ago I predicted that Remain would get about 65% in the referendum, but I don't remember ever seeing the results of that predikshun competition. Did I miss it?

    No. It got overlooked in the frenzy of political activity post referendum. I will put that right in the coming days.

    I had it to set to publish on Sunday 26th of June, then the Shadow Cabinet resigned en masse that day following Hilary Benn's sacking and screwed up that plan.

    I blame Jeremy Corbyn.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937

    Done my entry.

    Any news on the UKIP contest? It seems to have gone quiet.

    No one cares about UKIP.. its lost its raison d'etre.. people such as Mike K are reduced to slagging off Dave(see prev thread)..
    It's not dead yet!

    A lot depends on what happens when the phoney war over Brexit ends, and Article 50 invoked. The Bitter Enders will not agree with anything less than total withdrawal.
    Maybe so, and it may cause Mrs May some trouble but as a party political force its finished IMHO.. It'll be Tory frothers that cause the trouble for Mrs May anyway, in the HOC UKIP its toothless.
    About 25% of the country backs hard BREXIT so if May comes back with any compromise on that at all UKIP will still have a significant pool of voters to target and even perhaps to build on the 13% they won at the general election
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    JohnLoony said:

    DavidL said:

    I can't get on to make a prediction. Not too concerned because I have absolutely no idea what turnout is likely to be like standing the various court decisions of who is eligible.

    The electorate is c.647,000. Last year it was 554,272 and the turnout was 422,644.
    Thought it was less than that after disqualifications?
    I think there is less enthusiasm (for anyone) this time around. Just going through the motions.
  • Options

    Yep, it is definitely deep into the 'silly season' when this is one of the DT's online top headlines:

    "Playing the bagpipes daily could be fatal, warn doctors"

    Shouldn't that be listening to bagpipes?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,624
    HYUFD said:

    Done my entry.

    Any news on the UKIP contest? It seems to have gone quiet.

    No one cares about UKIP.. its lost its raison d'etre.. people such as Mike K are reduced to slagging off Dave(see prev thread)..
    It's not dead yet!

    A lot depends on what happens when the phoney war over Brexit ends, and Article 50 invoked. The Bitter Enders will not agree with anything less than total withdrawal.
    Maybe so, and it may cause Mrs May some trouble but as a party political force its finished IMHO.. It'll be Tory frothers that cause the trouble for Mrs May anyway, in the HOC UKIP its toothless.
    About 25% of the country backs hard BREXIT so if May comes back with any compromise on that at all UKIP will still have a significant pool of voters to target and even perhaps to build on the 13% they won at the general election
    Possibly. There are plenty of people who want a harder Brexit than UKIP, with sending foreigners home right now and stopping any more from coming, and many many more who will react very poorly to any move away from it. I'm not convinced may wants to take on that trouble.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,624

    JohnLoony said:

    Ages ago I predicted that Remain would get about 65% in the referendum, but I don't remember ever seeing the results of that predikshun competition. Did I miss it?

    No. It got overlooked in the frenzy of political activity post referendum. I will put that right in the coming days.

    I had it to set to publish on Sunday 26th of June, then the Shadow Cabinet resigned en masse that day following Hilary Benn's sacking and screwed up that plan.

    I blame Jeremy Corbyn.
    Typical people blaming JC for their own failings.

    Under JC, all threads will be published in the time and order they are supposed to, as people driven politics will ensure only worthy topics, rather than covering resignations of traitors, are prepared.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,964
    Good morning, everyone.

    Not long until Spa kicks off. Bit of a tricky track to go back to after a break, as both low and high downforce setups are valid approaches.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937
    edited August 2016
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Done my entry.

    Any news on the UKIP contest? It seems to have gone quiet.

    No one cares about UKIP.. its lost its raison d'etre.. people such as Mike K are reduced to slagging off Dave(see prev thread)..
    It's not dead yet!

    A lot depends on what happens when the phoney war over Brexit ends, and Article 50 invoked. The Bitter Enders will not agree with anything less than total withdrawal.
    Maybe so, and it may cause Mrs May some trouble but as a party political force its finished IMHO.. It'll be Tory frothers that cause the trouble for Mrs May anyway, in the HOC UKIP its toothless.
    About 25% of the country backs hard BREXIT so if May comes back with any compromise on that at all UKIP will still have a significant pool of voters to target and even perhaps to build on the 13% they won at the general election
    Possibly. There are plenty of people who want a harder Brexit than UKIP, with sending foreigners home right now and stopping any more from coming, and many many more who will react very poorly to any move away from it. I'm not convinced may wants to take on that trouble.
    However given about 75% of the country does not want hard BREXIT, including a narrow plurality of Tory voters and the City, May has no choice but to make some compromise to ensure a free trade deal. Given the state of Labour she can afford to lose a few hardline anti EU Tories to UKIP anyway
  • Options
    kle4 said:

    JohnLoony said:

    Ages ago I predicted that Remain would get about 65% in the referendum, but I don't remember ever seeing the results of that predikshun competition. Did I miss it?

    No. It got overlooked in the frenzy of political activity post referendum. I will put that right in the coming days.

    I had it to set to publish on Sunday 26th of June, then the Shadow Cabinet resigned en masse that day following Hilary Benn's sacking and screwed up that plan.

    I blame Jeremy Corbyn.
    Typical people blaming JC for their own failings.

    Under JC, all threads will be published in the time and order they are supposed to, as people driven politics will ensure only worthy topics, rather than covering resignations of traitors, are prepared.
    I've written a very pro Corbyn thread which will be published in the next few days.

    It contains the greatest simile in PB, nay, human history.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,624
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Done my entry.

    Any news on the UKIP contest? It seems to have gone quiet.

    No one cares about UKIP.. its lost its raison d'etre.. people such as Mike K are reduced to slagging off Dave(see prev thread)..
    It's not dead yet!

    A lot depends on what happens when the phoney war over Brexit ends, and Article 50 invoked. The Bitter Enders will not agree with anything less than total withdrawal.
    Maybe so, and it may cause Mrs May some trouble but as a party political force its finished IMHO.. It'll be Tory frothers that cause the trouble for Mrs May anyway, in the HOC UKIP its toothless.
    About 25% of the country backs hard BREXIT so if May comes back with any compromise on that at all UKIP will still have a significant pool of voters to target and even perhaps to build on the 13% they won at the general election
    Possibly. There are plenty of people who want a harder Brexit than UKIP, with sending foreigners home right now and stopping any more from coming, and many many more who will react very poorly to any move away from it. I'm not convinced may wants to take on that trouble.
    However given about 75% of the country does not want hard BREXIT, including a narrow plurality of Tory voters and the City, May has no choice but to make some compromise to ensure a free trade deal. Given the state of Labour she can afford to lose a few hardline anti EU Tories to UKIP anyway
    It's a question of who will kick up the greatest fuss if they don't get what they want, if their influence is disproportionate and if may is willing to take those people on. She may well, for the reasons you say, but I'm not convinced yet.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Yep, it is definitely deep into the 'silly season' when this is one of the DT's online top headlines:

    "Playing the bagpipes daily could be fatal, warn doctors"

    Or they are just trolling the Nats :)
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,899
    JohnLoony said:

    DavidL said:

    I can't get on to make a prediction. Not too concerned because I have absolutely no idea what turnout is likely to be like standing the various court decisions of who is eligible.

    The electorate is c.647,000. Last year it was 554,272 and the turnout was 422,644.
    Thought it was higher. I went for 700k turnout and JC by 0.01 anyway :)
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937
    edited August 2016
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Done my entry.

    Any news on the UKIP contest? It seems to have gone quiet.

    No one cares about UKIP.. its lost its raison d'etre.. people such as Mike K are reduced to slagging off Dave(see prev thread)..
    It's not dead yet!

    A lot depends on what happens when the phoney war over Brexit ends, and Article 50 invoked. The Bitter Enders will not agree with anything less than total withdrawal.
    Maybe so, and it may cause Mrs May some trouble but as a party political force its finished IMHO.. It'll be Tory frothers that cause the trouble for Mrs May anyway, in the HOC UKIP its toothless.
    About 25% of the country backs hard BREXIT so if May comes back with any compromise on that at all UKIP will still have a significant pool of voters to target and even perhaps to build on the 13% they won at the general election
    Possibly. There are plenty of people who want a harder Brexit than UKIP, with sending foreigners home right now and stopping any more from coming, and many many more who will react very poorly to any move away from it. I'm not convinced may wants to take on that trouble.
    However given about 75% of the country does not want hard BREXIT, including a narrow plurality of Tory voters and the City, May has no choice but to make some compromise to ensure a free trade deal. Given the state of Labour she can afford to lose a few hardline anti EU Tories to UKIP anyway
    It's a question of who will kick up the greatest fuss if they don't get what they want, if their influence is disproportionate and if may is willing to take those people on. She may well, for the reasons you say, but I'm not convinced yet.
    If May does agree hard BREXIT the economy will be hit badly and she could even lose the next election or at least her majority, the LDs would rocket up the polls. Losing a few votes to UKIP is a much lower risk and a softer BREXIT will protect the economy too. If we listened to the most vocal then Corbyn would win a landslide
  • Options
    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956

    Done my entry.

    Any news on the UKIP contest? It seems to have gone quiet.

    No one cares about UKIP.. its lost its raison d'etre.. people such as Mike K are reduced to slagging off Dave(see prev thread)..
    It's not dead yet!

    A lot depends on what happens when the phoney war over Brexit ends, and Article 50 invoked. The Bitter Enders will not agree with anything less than total withdrawal.
    Maybe so, and it may cause Mrs May some trouble but as a party political force its finished IMHO.. It'll be Tory frothers that cause the trouble for Mrs May anyway, in the HOC UKIP its toothless.
    You're probably right, though UKIP was instrumental in forcing the referendum despite peaking at 2 MPs. The threat of costing the Tories votes was enough.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,215
    edited August 2016
    MTimT said:

    RobD said:

    The screenshot in the header has inadvertently included the final result of the election. Could we have this removed, as it ruins the fun for competition players, and also spoils it for Labour members who have signed up and paid money to participate in their sham democracy.

    MI5 have been busy!
    Unfortunately, they can't do arithmetic. 61.54 to 38.46 does not give a winning margin of 10.58. And what is 0.3 of a vote?
    I read it to mean that the first figures are the percentage of entries opting for the various candidates, not the average forecast vote share. The second figure is the arithmetic average of the margins, which of course include some one way and some the other. The third figure is the average of the turnout predictions, which clearly doesnt have to be a whole number.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    kle4 said:

    JohnLoony said:

    Ages ago I predicted that Remain would get about 65% in the referendum, but I don't remember ever seeing the results of that predikshun competition. Did I miss it?

    No. It got overlooked in the frenzy of political activity post referendum. I will put that right in the coming days.

    I had it to set to publish on Sunday 26th of June, then the Shadow Cabinet resigned en masse that day following Hilary Benn's sacking and screwed up that plan.

    I blame Jeremy Corbyn.
    Typical people blaming JC for their own failings.

    Under JC, all threads will be published in the time and order they are supposed to, as people driven politics will ensure only worthy topics, rather than covering resignations of traitors, are prepared.
    Does this extend to threads on alternative voting systems? :D
  • Options
    Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,595
    kle4 said:

    JohnLoony said:

    Ages ago I predicted that Remain would get about 65% in the referendum, but I don't remember ever seeing the results of that predikshun competition. Did I miss it?

    No. It got overlooked in the frenzy of political activity post referendum. I will put that right in the coming days.

    I had it to set to publish on Sunday 26th of June, then the Shadow Cabinet resigned en masse that day following Hilary Benn's sacking and screwed up that plan.

    I blame Jeremy Corbyn.
    Typical people blaming JC for their own failings.

    Under JC, all threads will be published in the time and order they are supposed to, as people driven politics will ensure only worthy topics, rather than covering resignations of traitors, are prepared.
    Should be would as opposed to will. No chance whatsoever of will.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    I see the Olympians are returning today.

    Question: is this the largest flow of gold in or out of this country since a certain G Brown sold our reserves at bottom dollar prices? :D
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,215
    RobD said:

    I see the Olympians are returning today.

    Question: is this the largest flow of gold in or out of this country since a certain G Brown sold our reserves at bottom dollar prices? :D

    Answer: No. There is next to no gold even in the 'gold' medals.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    edited August 2016
    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    I see the Olympians are returning today.

    Question: is this the largest flow of gold in or out of this country since a certain G Brown sold our reserves at bottom dollar prices? :D

    Answer: No. There is next to no gold even in the 'gold' medals.
    Spoiling the fun with your facts... :p
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,624
    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    JohnLoony said:

    Ages ago I predicted that Remain would get about 65% in the referendum, but I don't remember ever seeing the results of that predikshun competition. Did I miss it?

    No. It got overlooked in the frenzy of political activity post referendum. I will put that right in the coming days.

    I had it to set to publish on Sunday 26th of June, then the Shadow Cabinet resigned en masse that day following Hilary Benn's sacking and screwed up that plan.

    I blame Jeremy Corbyn.
    Typical people blaming JC for their own failings.

    Under JC, all threads will be published in the time and order they are supposed to, as people driven politics will ensure only worthy topics, rather than covering resignations of traitors, are prepared.
    Does this extend to threads on alternative voting systems? :D
    No. In true people politics fashion, I know that the people want AV threads, even if they don't say so.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,215
    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    I see the Olympians are returning today.

    Question: is this the largest flow of gold in or out of this country since a certain G Brown sold our reserves at bottom dollar prices? :D

    Answer: No. There is next to no gold even in the 'gold' medals.
    Spoiling the fun with your facts... :p
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,606
    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    I see the Olympians are returning today.

    Question: is this the largest flow of gold in or out of this country since a certain G Brown sold our reserves at bottom dollar prices? :D

    Answer: No. There is next to no gold even in the 'gold' medals.
    6g per medal. The IOC became a bunch of tight arses.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,215
    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    JohnLoony said:

    Ages ago I predicted that Remain would get about 65% in the referendum, but I don't remember ever seeing the results of that predikshun competition. Did I miss it?

    No. It got overlooked in the frenzy of political activity post referendum. I will put that right in the coming days.

    I had it to set to publish on Sunday 26th of June, then the Shadow Cabinet resigned en masse that day following Hilary Benn's sacking and screwed up that plan.

    I blame Jeremy Corbyn.
    Typical people blaming JC for their own failings.

    Under JC, all threads will be published in the time and order they are supposed to, as people driven politics will ensure only worthy topics, rather than covering resignations of traitors, are prepared.
    Does this extend to threads on alternative voting systems? :D
    No. In true people politics fashion, I know that the people want AV threads, even if they don't say so.
    They do. We do. It may not be the first choice topic but clearly wins on transfers.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,624

    kle4 said:

    JohnLoony said:

    Ages ago I predicted that Remain would get about 65% in the referendum, but I don't remember ever seeing the results of that predikshun competition. Did I miss it?

    No. It got overlooked in the frenzy of political activity post referendum. I will put that right in the coming days.

    I had it to set to publish on Sunday 26th of June, then the Shadow Cabinet resigned en masse that day following Hilary Benn's sacking and screwed up that plan.

    I blame Jeremy Corbyn.
    Typical people blaming JC for their own failings.

    Under JC, all threads will be published in the time and order they are supposed to, as people driven politics will ensure only worthy topics, rather than covering resignations of traitors, are prepared.
    Should be would as opposed to will. No chance whatsoever of will.
    Have faith, comrade.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,319
    edited August 2016

    JohnLoony said:

    DavidL said:

    I can't get on to make a prediction. Not too concerned because I have absolutely no idea what turnout is likely to be like standing the various court decisions of who is eligible.

    The electorate is c.647,000. Last year it was 554,272 and the turnout was 422,644.
    Thought it was less than that after disqualifications?
    I think there is less enthusiasm (for anyone) this time around. Just going through the motions.
    Straw poll: I endorsed Corbyn in an email to Broxtowe members last night. Response so far (32 people) is 14 mostly enthusiastic for him, 8 opposed (but nobody so far positively saying they like Owen), and 10 can't decide or won't vote. Allow for politeness, people who feel strongly being more likely to reply, etc. But I think enthusiasm level is down but where it exists it's almost entirely for JC.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,306
    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    I see the Olympians are returning today.

    Question: is this the largest flow of gold in or out of this country since a certain G Brown sold our reserves at bottom dollar prices? :D

    Answer: No. There is next to no gold even in the 'gold' medals.
    6g per medal. The IOC became a bunch of tight arses.
    That's quite alot I think.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,319
    NB some entries are putting in expected vote share of winner, not expected margin. Unless someone really expects Owen to win by 53% margin?
  • Options
    dyingswandyingswan Posts: 189
    The winner of the PB competition on the Labour leadership election was a Mr Lutfur Rahman of Tower Hamlets. He correctly forecast the precise number of votes for each candidate. Congratulations to him.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187
    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    JohnLoony said:

    Ages ago I predicted that Remain would get about 65% in the referendum, but I don't remember ever seeing the results of that predikshun competition. Did I miss it?

    No. It got overlooked in the frenzy of political activity post referendum. I will put that right in the coming days.

    I had it to set to publish on Sunday 26th of June, then the Shadow Cabinet resigned en masse that day following Hilary Benn's sacking and screwed up that plan.

    I blame Jeremy Corbyn.
    Typical people blaming JC for their own failings.

    Under JC, all threads will be published in the time and order they are supposed to, as people driven politics will ensure only worthy topics, rather than covering resignations of traitors, are prepared.
    Does this extend to threads on alternative voting systems? :D
    No. In true people politics fashion, I know that the people want AV threads, even if they don't say so.
    Perhaps it could be combined with a thread about SPOTY. It is odd that the BBC persist with the evil FPTP system for that award.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,319
    Quite an interesting email reply from a contituent who voted for Yvette last time:

    "I am utterly appalled by the disgraceful way Corbyn has been treated by some of his parliamentary colleagues and by the mainstream media.

    I do not agree with everything he advocates (Indeed I may well disagree with more than half of it) and I am by no means convinced that he will lead the Labour Party to victory at the next election.

    He is however clearly someone capable of independent thought, he is willing to listen and he does offer a refreshing change from the idea of merely offering a top-down vision of self-serving blandness.

    He also appears to have been right many times in the past when others followed a more fashionable route."
  • Options
    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    dyingswan said:

    The winner of the PB competition on the Labour leadership election was a Mr Lutfur Rahman of Tower Hamlets. He correctly forecast the precise number of votes for each candidate. Congratulations to him.

    :lol:
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    Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,595
    JohnLoony said:

    DavidL said:

    I can't get on to make a prediction. Not too concerned because I have absolutely no idea what turnout is likely to be like standing the various court decisions of who is eligible.

    The electorate is c.647,000. Last year it was 554,272 and the turnout was 422,644.
    Interesting. Just 90,000 more than last year. If Smith were to achieve an unlikely victory, it would need (1) significant numbers of new sign ups for Smith via Saving Labour and (2) sign ups for Corbyn being much less than hyped, new sign ups being offset by some 2015 Corbyn supporters not signing up again.and (3) some switching of 2015 Corbyn voters to Smith. There is evidence of 1 and 3 happening, does the low 90k figure imply that 2 is as well?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,919
    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    I see the Olympians are returning today.

    Question: is this the largest flow of gold in or out of this country since a certain G Brown sold our reserves at bottom dollar prices? :D

    Answer: No. There is next to no gold even in the 'gold' medals.
    6g per medal. The IOC became a bunch of tight arses.
    $250 of gold.
  • Options
    ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819
    As someone initially receptive to Owen Smith, he's seemed less and less impressive as the contest goes on, so I don't see him being able to beat Corbyn. I think he's failed to inspire people, basically just saying he is a presentable, competent version of Corbyn, who can win a GE - but we don't actually have any reason to believe any of those points. The problem is that all the actual potential-PM types, Chuka, Jarvis etc, chickened out. I think someone like Chuka Umuna may have actually been able to convince people he could win a GE, and would seem a more appealing alternative.

    I've gone for Corbyn to win with a 10% margin (my turnout prediction was basically random as I don't know the selectorate well enough!)
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,811

    Yep, it is definitely deep into the 'silly season' when this is one of the DT's online top headlines:

    "Playing the bagpipes daily could be fatal, warn doctors"

    Shouldn't that be listening to bagpipes?
    A man of little taste then Alan
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,811
    edited August 2016
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Done my entry.

    Any news on the UKIP contest? It seems to have gone quiet.

    No one cares about UKIP.. its lost its raison d'etre.. people such as Mike K are reduced to slagging off Dave(see prev thread)..
    It's not dead yet!

    A lot depends on what happens when the phoney war over Brexit ends, and Article 50 invoked. The Bitter Enders will not agree with anything less than total withdrawal.
    Maybe so, and it may cause Mrs May some trouble but as a party political force its finished IMHO.. It'll be Tory frothers that cause the trouble for Mrs May anyway, in the HOC UKIP its toothless.
    About 25% of the country backs hard BREXIT so if May comes back with any compromise on that at all UKIP will still have a significant pool of voters to target and even perhaps to build on the 13% they won at the general election
    Possibly. There are plenty of people who want a harder Brexit than UKIP, with sending foreigners home right now and stopping any more from coming, and many many more who will react very poorly to any move away from it. I'm not convinced may wants to take on that trouble.
    However given about 75% of the country does not want hard BREXIT, including a narrow plurality of Tory voters and the City, May has no choice but to make some compromise to ensure a free trade deal. Given the state of Labour she can afford to lose a few hardline anti EU Tories to UKIP anyway
    It's a question of who will kick up the greatest fuss if they don't get what they want, if their influence is disproportionate and if may is willing to take those people on. She may well, for the reasons you say, but I'm not convinced yet.
    If May does agree hard BREXIT the economy will be hit badly and she could even lose the next election or at least her majority, the LDs would rocket up the polls. Losing a few votes to UKIP is a much lower risk and a softer BREXIT will protect the economy too. If we listened to the most vocal then Corbyn would win a landslide
    She will have little choice, EU has a flush and May has two deuces, it will be HARD.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937

    As someone initially receptive to Owen Smith, he's seemed less and less impressive as the contest goes on, so I don't see him being able to beat Corbyn. I think he's failed to inspire people, basically just saying he is a presentable, competent version of Corbyn, who can win a GE - but we don't actually have any reason to believe any of those points. The problem is that all the actual potential-PM types, Chuka, Jarvis etc, chickened out. I think someone like Chuka Umuna may have actually been able to convince people he could win a GE, and would seem a more appealing alternative.

    I've gone for Corbyn to win with a 10% margin (my turnout prediction was basically random as I don't know the selectorate well enough!)

    Smith will not win a general election but he could be a poor man's Michael Howard and I still think he could sneak past Corbyn
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,964
    Mr. G, when considering how the negotiations will go both the domestic situation and opening position of the EU must be considered.

    May can get away with a middling option. If she went for a departure in name only, she'll be defenestrated.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,606
    Markit seem to have given up on their flash PMI for the UK economy. I was looking forward to it in my own sad way. Oh well, guess we'll have to wait for another week or so.

    Mixed news for Europe though, French manufacturing still poor, German services down a fair amount, composite PMI across the bloc is pretty steady.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937
    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Done my entry.

    Any news on the UKIP contest? It seems to have gone quiet.

    No one cares about UKIP.. its lost its raison d'etre.. people such as Mike K are reduced to slagging off Dave(see prev thread)..
    It's not dead yet!

    A lot depends on what happens when the phoney war over Brexit ends, and Article 50 invoked. The Bitter Enders will not agree with anything less than total withdrawal.
    Maybe so, and it may cause Mrs May some trouble but as a party political force its finished IMHO.. It'll be Tory frothers that cause the trouble for Mrs May anyway, in the HOC UKIP its toothless.
    About 25% of the country backs hard BREXIT so if May comes back with any compromise on that at all UKIP will still have a significant pool of voters to target and even perhaps to build on the 13% they won at the general election
    Possibly. There are plenty of people who want a harder Brexit than UKIP, with sending foreigners home right now and stopping any more from coming, and many many more who will react very poorly to any move away from it. I'm not convinced may wants to take on that trouble.
    However given about 75% of the country does not want hard BREXIT, including a narrow plurality of Tory voters and the City, May has no choice but to make some compromise to ensure a free trade deal. Given the state of Labour she can afford to lose a few hardline anti EU Tories to UKIP anyway
    It's a question of who will kick up the greatest fuss if they don't get what they want, if their influence is disproportionate and if may is willing to take those people on. She may well, for the reasons you say, but I'm not convinced yet.
    If May does agree hard BREXIT the economy will be hit badly and she could even lose the next election or at least her majority, the LDs would rocket up the polls. Losing a few votes to UKIP is a much lower risk and a softer BREXIT will protect the economy too. If we listened to the most vocal then Corbyn would win a landslide
    She will have little choice, EU has a flush and May has two deuces, it will be HARD.
    There are varying gradients of hard
  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    JohnLoony said:

    DavidL said:

    I can't get on to make a prediction. Not too concerned because I have absolutely no idea what turnout is likely to be like standing the various court decisions of who is eligible.

    The electorate is c.647,000. Last year it was 554,272 and the turnout was 422,644.
    Thought it was less than that after disqualifications?
    I think there is less enthusiasm (for anyone) this time around. Just going through the motions.
    Straw poll: I endorsed Corbyn in an email to Broxtowe members last night. Response so far (32 people) is 14 mostly enthusiastic for him, 8 opposed (but nobody so far positively saying they like Owen), and 10 can't decide or won't vote. Allow for politeness, people who feel strongly being more likely to reply, etc. But I think enthusiasm level is down but where it exists it's almost entirely for JC.
    Not surprising when we read about the hard lefty in Broxtowe.. looks like its a Momentum takeover.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,209

    JohnLoony said:

    DavidL said:

    I can't get on to make a prediction. Not too concerned because I have absolutely no idea what turnout is likely to be like standing the various court decisions of who is eligible.

    The electorate is c.647,000. Last year it was 554,272 and the turnout was 422,644.
    Thought it was less than that after disqualifications?
    I think there is less enthusiasm (for anyone) this time around. Just going through the motions.
    Straw poll: I endorsed Corbyn in an email to Broxtowe members last night. Response so far (32 people) is 14 mostly enthusiastic for him, 8 opposed (but nobody so far positively saying they like Owen), and 10 can't decide or won't vote. Allow for politeness, people who feel strongly being more likely to reply, etc. But I think enthusiasm level is down but where it exists it's almost entirely for JC.
    "....trust me, comrades, I know a loser when I see one..."
  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    TOPPING said:

    JohnLoony said:

    DavidL said:

    I can't get on to make a prediction. Not too concerned because I have absolutely no idea what turnout is likely to be like standing the various court decisions of who is eligible.

    The electorate is c.647,000. Last year it was 554,272 and the turnout was 422,644.
    Thought it was less than that after disqualifications?
    I think there is less enthusiasm (for anyone) this time around. Just going through the motions.
    Straw poll: I endorsed Corbyn in an email to Broxtowe members last night. Response so far (32 people) is 14 mostly enthusiastic for him, 8 opposed (but nobody so far positively saying they like Owen), and 10 can't decide or won't vote. Allow for politeness, people who feel strongly being more likely to reply, etc. But I think enthusiasm level is down but where it exists it's almost entirely for JC.
    "....trust me, comrades, I know a loser when I see one..."
    Anna Soubry will be dancing in the streets of Broxtowe tonight ;)
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,306
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Done my entry.

    Any news on the UKIP contest? It seems to have gone quiet.

    No one cares about UKIP.. its lost its raison d'etre.. people such as Mike K are reduced to slagging off Dave(see prev thread)..
    It's not dead yet!

    A lot depends on what happens when the phoney war over Brexit ends, and Article 50 invoked. The Bitter Enders will not agree with anything less than total withdrawal.
    Maybe so, and it may cause Mrs May some trouble but as a party political force its finished IMHO.. It'll be Tory frothers that cause the trouble for Mrs May anyway, in the HOC UKIP its toothless.
    About 25% of the country backs hard BREXIT so if May comes back with any compromise on that at all UKIP will still have a significant pool of voters to target and even perhaps to build on the 13% they won at the general election
    Possibly. There are plenty of people who want a harder Brexit than UKIP, with sending foreigners home right now and stopping any more from coming, and many many more who will react very poorly to any move away from it. I'm not convinced may wants to take on that trouble.
    However given about 75% of the country does not want hard BREXIT, including a narrow plurality of Tory voters and the City, May has no choice but to make some compromise to ensure a free trade deal. Given the state of Labour she can afford to lose a few hardline anti EU Tories to UKIP anyway
    It's a question of who will kick up the greatest fuss if they don't get what they want, if their influence is disproportionate and if may is willing to take those people on. She may well, for the reasons you say, but I'm not convinced yet.
    If May does agree hard BREXIT the economy will be hit badly and she could even lose the next election or at least her majority, the LDs would rocket up the polls. Losing a few votes to UKIP is a much lower risk and a softer BREXIT will protect the economy too. If we listened to the most vocal then Corbyn would win a landslide
    I think that depends upon whether she has a convincing plan for hard Brexit. Which will have to be given another title. Full indy or something. I'm all for it. Sign me up for Switzerland with a dash of Singapore I say.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,306

    TOPPING said:

    JohnLoony said:

    DavidL said:

    I can't get on to make a prediction. Not too concerned because I have absolutely no idea what turnout is likely to be like standing the various court decisions of who is eligible.

    The electorate is c.647,000. Last year it was 554,272 and the turnout was 422,644.
    Thought it was less than that after disqualifications?
    I think there is less enthusiasm (for anyone) this time around. Just going through the motions.
    Straw poll: I endorsed Corbyn in an email to Broxtowe members last night. Response so far (32 people) is 14 mostly enthusiastic for him, 8 opposed (but nobody so far positively saying they like Owen), and 10 can't decide or won't vote. Allow for politeness, people who feel strongly being more likely to reply, etc. But I think enthusiasm level is down but where it exists it's almost entirely for JC.
    "....trust me, comrades, I know a loser when I see one..."
    Anna Soubry will be dancing in the streets of Broxtowe tonight ;)
    Isn't that just her usual Tuesday?
  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited August 2016

    TOPPING said:

    JohnLoony said:

    DavidL said:

    I can't get on to make a prediction. Not too concerned because I have absolutely no idea what turnout is likely to be like standing the various court decisions of who is eligible.

    The electorate is c.647,000. Last year it was 554,272 and the turnout was 422,644.
    Thought it was less than that after disqualifications?
    I think there is less enthusiasm (for anyone) this time around. Just going through the motions.
    Straw poll: I endorsed Corbyn in an email to Broxtowe members last night. Response so far (32 people) is 14 mostly enthusiastic for him, 8 opposed (but nobody so far positively saying they like Owen), and 10 can't decide or won't vote. Allow for politeness, people who feel strongly being more likely to reply, etc. But I think enthusiasm level is down but where it exists it's almost entirely for JC.
    "....trust me, comrades, I know a loser when I see one..."
    Anna Soubry will be dancing in the streets of Broxtowe tonight ;)
    Isn't that just her usual Tuesday?

    ... ever since May 2010 ;)
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,838
    edited August 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    I see the Olympians are returning today.

    Question: is this the largest flow of gold in or out of this country since a certain G Brown sold our reserves at bottom dollar prices? :D

    Answer: No. There is next to no gold even in the 'gold' medals.
    6g per medal. The IOC became a bunch of tight arses.
    $250 of gold.
    Yep. A 'Gold' medal is mostly silver, worth $565 in metal. The 'Silver' medal is worth $315 and the bronze one just $2.38!

    A pure Gold medal would cost $21k.

    Whenever one comes up for auction they tend to go for a little more than those values though!

    http://www.compoundchem.com/2016/08/15/olympic-medals/
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,919

    Mr. G, when considering how the negotiations will go both the domestic situation and opening position of the EU must be considered.

    May can get away with a middling option. If she went for a departure in name only, she'll be defenestrated.

    I think the first thing to remember about these negotiations is... Everything you see in the papers is crap

    There is literally no chance we won't leave the customs union. So, demands that we leave it are merely positioning.

    Likewise, suggesting that we're not going to agree the free movement of goods between the EU and the UK and might go 'World Trade Organisation' are just posturing. It would be too damaging for either the UK or EU economies to go WTO. Companies supply chains don't change overnight; firms have multi-year supply contracts. Interjecting tariffs would be disastrous for a lot of businesses.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,306
    rcs1000 said:

    Mr. G, when considering how the negotiations will go both the domestic situation and opening position of the EU must be considered.

    May can get away with a middling option. If she went for a departure in name only, she'll be defenestrated.

    I think the first thing to remember about these negotiations is... Everything you see in the papers is crap

    There is literally no chance we won't leave the customs union. So, demands that we leave it are merely positioning.

    Likewise, suggesting that we're not going to agree the free movement of goods between the EU and the UK and might go 'World Trade Organisation' are just posturing. It would be too damaging for either the UK or EU economies to go WTO. Companies supply chains don't change overnight; firms have multi-year supply contracts. Interjecting tariffs would be disastrous for a lot of businesses.
    Stop being so overwrought. It would not be disastrous; it would incur an increase in expenses which could be offset by a tax cut. For other businesses it would be a boon.
  • Options
    MontyHallMontyHall Posts: 226
    edited August 2016
    "BRITONS are hoping the UK will suffer social and economic chaos if it supports their views on Brexit, they have revealed.

    People on both sides of the debate would prefer there to be a crippling recession, riots in the streets and possibly civil war rather than lose a small amount of face.

    Administrator Tom Logan said: “I predicted Brexit would cause a recession, so I’m hoping everyone will lose their jobs so I can be proved right to some pillocks on the internet.

    “Ideally I’d like to see a 1930s-style depression but I’m not fussy. Even a few companies pulling out of the UK and devastating local communities would be a big ‘up yours’ to the smug Brexit gits.”

    http://m.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/being-proved-right-about-brexit-more-important-than-future-of-uk-20160823112768
  • Options
    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704

    JohnLoony said:

    DavidL said:

    I can't get on to make a prediction. Not too concerned because I have absolutely no idea what turnout is likely to be like standing the various court decisions of who is eligible.

    The electorate is c.647,000. Last year it was 554,272 and the turnout was 422,644.
    Thought it was less than that after disqualifications?
    I think there is less enthusiasm (for anyone) this time around. Just going through the motions.
    Straw poll: I endorsed Corbyn in an email to Broxtowe members last night. Response so far (32 people) is 14 mostly enthusiastic for him, 8 opposed (but nobody so far positively saying they like Owen), and 10 can't decide or won't vote. Allow for politeness, people who feel strongly being more likely to reply, etc. But I think enthusiasm level is down but where it exists it's almost entirely for JC.
    Not surprising when we read about the hard lefty in Broxtowe.. looks like its a Momentum takeover.
    Thats the problem the 'moderates' are going to have. You have a bunch of people for which Corbyn is going to be very popular, then a bunch of people (smaller) which are ABC (Anything but Corbyn), then undecideds, but very very few people which are 'Smithites'.

    Even if Corbyn is beatable, does anyone really think that Smith is the guy to do it?
  • Options
    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    rcs1000 said:

    Mr. G, when considering how the negotiations will go both the domestic situation and opening position of the EU must be considered.

    May can get away with a middling option. If she went for a departure in name only, she'll be defenestrated.

    I think the first thing to remember about these negotiations is... Everything you see in the papers is crap

    There is literally no chance we won't leave the customs union. So, demands that we leave it are merely positioning.

    Likewise, suggesting that we're not going to agree the free movement of goods between the EU and the UK and might go 'World Trade Organisation' are just posturing. It would be too damaging for either the UK or EU economies to go WTO. Companies supply chains don't change overnight; firms have multi-year supply contracts. Interjecting tariffs would be disastrous for a lot of businesses.
    First sentence spot on and should be applied to this site also
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,838
    MaxPB said:

    Markit seem to have given up on their flash PMI for the UK economy. I was looking forward to it in my own sad way. Oh well, guess we'll have to wait for another week or so.

    Mixed news for Europe though, French manufacturing still poor, German services down a fair amount, composite PMI across the bloc is pretty steady.

    After the crap they got for their first attempt at a flash PMI, are you surprised they're not continuing with them?

    At best it could be said to have been misleading based on a few days of uncertainty, at worst it could be said to be politically motivated and driving the 'remoaner' narrative, neither of which are good for their reputation. We'll just have to wait a bit for the usual data release.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    rcs1000 said:

    Mr. G, when considering how the negotiations will go both the domestic situation and opening position of the EU must be considered.

    May can get away with a middling option. If she went for a departure in name only, she'll be defenestrated.

    I think the first thing to remember about these negotiations is... Everything you see in the papers is crap

    There is literally no chance we won't leave the customs union. So, demands that we leave it are merely positioning.

    Likewise, suggesting that we're not going to agree the free movement of goods between the EU and the UK and might go 'World Trade Organisation' are just posturing. It would be too damaging for either the UK or EU economies to go WTO. Companies supply chains don't change overnight; firms have multi-year supply contracts. Interjecting tariffs would be disastrous for a lot of businesses.
    Surely leaving the customs union is an essential pre-requisite for signing trade agreements with other countries / blocs? Otherwise every deal the UK made would have to be subject to EU approval and potential veto?

    in any case, even if it is initially a negotiating position, it has to be one the government is prepared to implement if necessary otherwise the other side won't take it seriously.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,838
    MontyHall said:

    "BRITONS are hoping the UK will suffer social and economic chaos if it supports their views on Brexit, they have revealed.

    People on both sides of the debate would prefer there to be a crippling recession, riots in the streets and possibly civil war rather than lose a small amount of face.

    Administrator Tom Logan said: “I predicted Brexit would cause a recession, so I’m hoping everyone will lose their jobs so I can be proved right to some pillocks on the internet.

    “Ideally I’d like to see a 1930s-style depression but I’m not fussy. Even a few companies pulling out of the UK and devastating local communities would be a big ‘up yours’ to the smug Brexit gits.”

    http://m.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/being-proved-right-about-brexit-more-important-than-future-of-uk-20160823112768

    Sometimes one doesn't know what's from the Mash and what's from the Guardian or FT. ;)
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,691
    rcs1000 said:



    Likewise, suggesting that we're not going to agree the free movement of goods between the EU and the UK and might go 'World Trade Organisation' are just posturing. It would be too damaging for either the UK or EU economies to go WTO. Companies supply chains don't change overnight; firms have multi-year supply contracts. Interjecting tariffs would be disastrous for a lot of businesses.

    Any trade agreement allows for tariff-free trade on machinery. If you don't have that, you just don't bother with one. The important thing to realise is that we won't be able to do a deal on services in exchange for Germans selling us their cars. We would have to offer something else. It's not clear what that else is, that Germany in particular wants.

    We'll get the basic deal, which means our exports to the EU will go down very significantly. I suppose those that celebrate declining export shares to the EU will be vindicated.

  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    I endorsed Corbyn in an email to Broxtowe members last night.

    Nick Palmer fully committed to "Labour Lemmings For Corbyn"

    What a farcical and desperate mess Labour have become. Years in the political wilderness beckon as a substantial proportion of the Labour vote drifts away determined not to allow the Jezzbollah the reigns of power.

    What comes first ....

    A. The next Labour government.
    B. Sotheby's auctioning OGH's golden strand Faberge hairpieces.
    C. Malcolmg denouncing turnips
    D. Asteroid hit organized from Finchley Road

    Tough call ....

  • Options
    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    FF43 said:

    rcs1000 said:



    Likewise, suggesting that we're not going to agree the free movement of goods between the EU and the UK and might go 'World Trade Organisation' are just posturing. It would be too damaging for either the UK or EU economies to go WTO. Companies supply chains don't change overnight; firms have multi-year supply contracts. Interjecting tariffs would be disastrous for a lot of businesses.

    Any trade agreement allows for tariff-free trade on machinery. If you don't have that, you just don't bother with one. The important thing to realise is that we won't be able to do a deal on services in exchange for Germans selling us their cars. We would have to offer something else. It's not clear what that else is, that Germany in particular wants.

    We'll get the basic deal, which means our exports to the EU will go down very significantly. I suppose those that celebrate declining export shares to the EU will be vindicated.

    Yep more ill informed rubbish, as I noted below
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,919

    rcs1000 said:

    Mr. G, when considering how the negotiations will go both the domestic situation and opening position of the EU must be considered.

    May can get away with a middling option. If she went for a departure in name only, she'll be defenestrated.

    I think the first thing to remember about these negotiations is... Everything you see in the papers is crap

    There is literally no chance we won't leave the customs union. So, demands that we leave it are merely positioning.

    Likewise, suggesting that we're not going to agree the free movement of goods between the EU and the UK and might go 'World Trade Organisation' are just posturing. It would be too damaging for either the UK or EU economies to go WTO. Companies supply chains don't change overnight; firms have multi-year supply contracts. Interjecting tariffs would be disastrous for a lot of businesses.
    Stop being so overwrought. It would not be disastrous; it would incur an increase in expenses which could be offset by a tax cut. For other businesses it would be a boon.
    I think if we went WTO, we would see a substantial recession. Why?

    Because the UK is uniquely reliant on the importation of capital. Our current account deficit in the first half of 2016 was 7% of GDP.

    If we have to close the gap by rapidly increasing our savings rate (which is how Spain closed the gap in 2012-13), it will be extremely painful.
  • Options
    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    rcs1000 said:

    Mr. G, when considering how the negotiations will go both the domestic situation and opening position of the EU must be considered.

    May can get away with a middling option. If she went for a departure in name only, she'll be defenestrated.

    I think the first thing to remember about these negotiations is... Everything you see in the papers is crap

    There is literally no chance we won't leave the customs union. So, demands that we leave it are merely positioning.

    Likewise, suggesting that we're not going to agree the free movement of goods between the EU and the UK and might go 'World Trade Organisation' are just posturing. It would be too damaging for either the UK or EU economies to go WTO. Companies supply chains don't change overnight; firms have multi-year supply contracts. Interjecting tariffs would be disastrous for a lot of businesses.
    Stop being so overwrought. It would not be disastrous; it would incur an increase in expenses which could be offset by a tax cut. For other businesses it would be a boon.
    Good morning all.

    The European automotive industry is just that: European. Even the much vaunted Nissan Sunderland plant gets its diesel engines from Renault.

    It makes sense for both sides to have a tariff-free agreement on goods. How that's dressed up and presented is immaterial. Whether EU27 domestic politics will permit that is also open to question.

    I've read enough now to know that while the heads of agreement might (might!) come quite quickly, there are going to be huge chunks of boring detail (e.g. transitional EU27 access to UK fishing waters, legislative equivalency on product name misuse, rinse & repeat 10,000 times) that will bore the electorate to tears, and only matter to sectional interests.

    I've also read enough to realise that the media are almost invariably wrong, whichever side they're pushing. Someone pushed a Vanity Fair article on to my timeline last night and it was eye-wateringly bad across the board.

    I'm still hoping that May will try to widen the UK's offer as much as possible - a security, intelligence and economic framework, rather than just a variation on the {Swiss, Canada, EEA) themes. Let's see.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,919

    rcs1000 said:

    Mr. G, when considering how the negotiations will go both the domestic situation and opening position of the EU must be considered.

    May can get away with a middling option. If she went for a departure in name only, she'll be defenestrated.

    I think the first thing to remember about these negotiations is... Everything you see in the papers is crap

    There is literally no chance we won't leave the customs union. So, demands that we leave it are merely positioning.

    Likewise, suggesting that we're not going to agree the free movement of goods between the EU and the UK and might go 'World Trade Organisation' are just posturing. It would be too damaging for either the UK or EU economies to go WTO. Companies supply chains don't change overnight; firms have multi-year supply contracts. Interjecting tariffs would be disastrous for a lot of businesses.
    Surely leaving the customs union is an essential pre-requisite for signing trade agreements with other countries / blocs? Otherwise every deal the UK made would have to be subject to EU approval and potential veto?

    in any case, even if it is initially a negotiating position, it has to be one the government is prepared to implement if necessary otherwise the other side won't take it seriously.
    Well yes. We will be leaving the customs union. I think you misread my post.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,954
    No knee-jerk speculation on religion/ideology/ethnicity over this?

    'Man Stabbed In Car Park 'Sword Attack' In Liverpool'

    http://tinyurl.com/z2pcjbk
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,691
    runnymede said:

    FF43 said:

    rcs1000 said:



    Likewise, suggesting that we're not going to agree the free movement of goods between the EU and the UK and might go 'World Trade Organisation' are just posturing. It would be too damaging for either the UK or EU economies to go WTO. Companies supply chains don't change overnight; firms have multi-year supply contracts. Interjecting tariffs would be disastrous for a lot of businesses.

    Any trade agreement allows for tariff-free trade on machinery. If you don't have that, you just don't bother with one. The important thing to realise is that we won't be able to do a deal on services in exchange for Germans selling us their cars. We would have to offer something else. It's not clear what that else is, that Germany in particular wants.

    We'll get the basic deal, which means our exports to the EU will go down very significantly. I suppose those that celebrate declining export shares to the EU will be vindicated.

    Yep more ill informed rubbish, as I noted below
    Sorry, I didn't notice your super well-informed insight below.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,152

    JohnLoony said:

    DavidL said:

    I can't get on to make a prediction. Not too concerned because I have absolutely no idea what turnout is likely to be like standing the various court decisions of who is eligible.

    The electorate is c.647,000. Last year it was 554,272 and the turnout was 422,644.
    Thought it was less than that after disqualifications?
    I think there is less enthusiasm (for anyone) this time around. Just going through the motions.
    Straw poll: I endorsed Corbyn in an email to Broxtowe members last night. Response so far (32 people) is 14 mostly enthusiastic for him, 8 opposed (but nobody so far positively saying they like Owen), and 10 can't decide or won't vote. Allow for politeness, people who feel strongly being more likely to reply, etc. But I think enthusiasm level is down but where it exists it's almost entirely for JC.
    Not surprising when we read about the hard lefty in Broxtowe.. looks like its a Momentum takeover.
    Thats the problem the 'moderates' are going to have. You have a bunch of people for which Corbyn is going to be very popular, then a bunch of people (smaller) which are ABC (Anything but Corbyn), then undecideds, but very very few people which are 'Smithites'.

    Even if Corbyn is beatable, does anyone really think that Smith is the guy to do it?
    No. Although I had a small wager on Smith as he represented a value bet earlier on in contest. I doubt I'd do it now though.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,916

    No knee-jerk speculation on religion/ideology/ethnicity over this?

    'Man Stabbed In Car Park 'Sword Attack' In Liverpool'

    http://tinyurl.com/z2pcjbk

    Be fair. Liverpool; could be all sorts of ethnicity/ideology/religious/criminal/family reasons.
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    MontyHallMontyHall Posts: 226

    No knee-jerk speculation on religion/ideology/ethnicity over this?

    'Man Stabbed In Car Park 'Sword Attack' In Liverpool'

    http://tinyurl.com/z2pcjbk

    Wouldn't have thought so. Isn't Liverpool the least multicultural place in England?
  • Options
    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Mr. G, when considering how the negotiations will go both the domestic situation and opening position of the EU must be considered.

    May can get away with a middling option. If she went for a departure in name only, she'll be defenestrated.

    I think the first thing to remember about these negotiations is... Everything you see in the papers is crap

    There is literally no chance we won't leave the customs union. So, demands that we leave it are merely positioning.

    Likewise, suggesting that we're not going to agree the free movement of goods between the EU and the UK and might go 'World Trade Organisation' are just posturing. It would be too damaging for either the UK or EU economies to go WTO. Companies supply chains don't change overnight; firms have multi-year supply contracts. Interjecting tariffs would be disastrous for a lot of businesses.
    Surely leaving the customs union is an essential pre-requisite for signing trade agreements with other countries / blocs? Otherwise every deal the UK made would have to be subject to EU approval and potential veto?

    in any case, even if it is initially a negotiating position, it has to be one the government is prepared to implement if necessary otherwise the other side won't take it seriously.
    Well yes. We will be leaving the customs union. I think you misread my post.

    It is not true that double negatives don't confuse people.

  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,606
    A bunch of leftoids on my facebook feed are annoyed at ditching the HRA, now I know the government are on the right track. If so many lawyers and other lefty idiots are upset they must be doing something right.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,919

    No knee-jerk speculation on religion/ideology/ethnicity over this?

    'Man Stabbed In Car Park 'Sword Attack' In Liverpool'

    http://tinyurl.com/z2pcjbk

    Be fair. Liverpool; could be all sorts of ethnicity/ideology/religious/criminal/family reasons.
    You forgot football.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    No knee-jerk speculation on religion/ideology/ethnicity over this?

    'Man Stabbed In Car Park 'Sword Attack' In Liverpool'

    http://tinyurl.com/z2pcjbk

    Disappointed Olympic fencers ?
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,954

    No knee-jerk speculation on religion/ideology/ethnicity over this?

    'Man Stabbed In Car Park 'Sword Attack' In Liverpool'

    http://tinyurl.com/z2pcjbk

    Be fair. Liverpool; could be all sorts of ethnicity/ideology/religious/criminal/family reasons.
    Much like loads of other places, some of them not even in the UK!
This discussion has been closed.