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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » What happened when Yvette Cooper made a last minute appeal

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  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    PClipp said:

    slade said:

    Cardiff result: LD 1258, Lab 910, PC 177, Con 115, Green 93, UKIP 62. LD gain from Labour.

    Where in Cardiff was that, Mr Slade? Seems strange having a local government byelection today.

    Though perhaps it bodes well for Lib Dem prospects in Witney.
    Not convinced that isolated local government by-elections tell us much of value. Small samples, obviously subject to specific local conditions, also people can vote significantly differently in different kinds of elections. For example, the LDs have done very well in this tiny little council seat, but they failed miserably in the Welsh Assembly election earlier in the year. Even if their sole surviving AM was awarded a cabinet post in exchange for helping to keep Labour in office.

    The GE 2015 headline polling numbers were broadly accurate for the smaller parties, and the Lib Dems ended up winning around 8% of the national vote then. They're still polling 8%, where they have been for at least the last two years (since they fell below the 10% at which they had been flatlining for the three years before that.) There is, as yet, no significant evidence to indicate a recovery.
  • Options
    Tim_B said:

    524,000 absentee ballots have been requested in Ohio this election.

    There is a long and proud tradition in Ohio of publicly showing faith in the USPS.
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    Tim_B said:

    524,000 absentee ballots have been requested in Ohio this election.

    Is that a lot compared to normal?
  • Options
    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865

    Moses_ said:

    Hungary happy for its own people to travel and settle across Europe but anti immigration into Hungary from the Middle East and beyond. Their Minister on Newsnight refuses to see the hypocrisy.

    I have an open mind but seriously I mean seriously do you really, really think these two positions are similar in any way?

    If you do well FFS... There is little hope for you.
    Why is a hopeless and jobless Hungarian living under a bridge in Tottenham any better for the UK than a hopeless and jobless Syrian living under a bridge in Tottenham?

    If Hungary is so pro its own people being able to live elsewhere for the betterment of themselves, it's hypocritical of Hungary to close itself off from inward migration.

    Just playing devil's advocate. As for me, I despise the free movement of people - economic, refugee, you name it - and thank god every day for the Channel.

    Night.
    Night
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    nunu said:

    Tim_B said:

    524,000 absentee ballots have been requested in Ohio this election.

    Is that a lot compared to normal?
    40,000 up on last time.
  • Options
    MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    edited September 2016
    Jobabob said:



    I think the mistake in his analysis is the suggestion that the elite don't believe they are the elite.

    I think they do. They believe that they are the smart ones, the right ones, the blessed ones. The parallels with aristocracy of the old, hereditary kind are intriguing. And, in fact their privilege is becoming hereditary.

    The new barons are not really the bankers, or the billionaires. They have a share. But it is the faceless tribe, on 6 figures, effortlessly moving between roles leaving a trail of failure through government, business and the "third sector". For which they need to be thanked. And listened to.

    And they hate, hate, hate the plebs. And thank themselves that they are not the unwashed mob each and every day.

    Wow. No wonder this anti-elite stuff is popular!
    For fans of American history, see John Adams vs Thomas Jefferson on the subject of "natural aristocracy" - Jefferson thought the brightest and the best should be running the show, Adams was suspicious that such a "natural aristocracy", if such a group could ever be distinguished, would likely evolve into an European-style plain-old "aristocracy" anyway - precisely the thing that Jefferson hated, and accused the Federalists of ideologically supporting. Ironically, John Adams and John Quincy Adams formed the first "father and son" dynasty of presidents.

    Andrew Jackson, a fierce rival of John Quincy Adams, was an avowed anti-elitist Despite owning 150 slaves or so at his peak, which put him in the high end of the plantation elite himself, Jackson was a self-made man from humble roots, a teenage orphan who hadn't attended college (John Q. Adams, like his father before him, was a Harvard man) which went against the Jeffersonian ideal of an intellectual, well-educated leadership group. The idea of giving the little guy a say, instead of letting the wealthy and well-connected pull strings in dark rooms - even on things we'd find unpalatable in the UK, like electing our judges to make sure they share a similar worldview to the general population - is a characteristic of American public life that comes from the age of Jacksonian democracy.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    The Swedish government-sponsored ad:

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoQFUBgAMyo
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited September 2016
    538 puts Trump's chances at 44%, the highest so far:

    http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/?ex_cid=rrpromo
  • Options
    vikvik Posts: 157
    edited September 2016
    AndyJS said:

    538 puts Trump's chances at 44%, the highest so far:

    http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/?ex_cid=rrpromo

    On the Now-Cast, his chances are 48%. :)

    Just a few more good polls for Trump, and liberals can really start freaking out.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,398

    Jobabob said:



    I think the mistake in his analysis is the suggestion that the elite don't believe they are the elite.

    I think they do. They believe that they are the smart ones, the right ones, the blessed ones. The parallels with aristocracy of the old, hereditary kind are intriguing. And, in fact their privilege is becoming hereditary.

    The new barons are not really the bankers, or the billionaires. They have a share. But it is the faceless tribe, on 6 figures, effortlessly moving between roles leaving a trail of failure through government, business and the "third sector". For which they need to be thanked. And listened to.

    And they hate, hate, hate the plebs. And thank themselves that they are not the unwashed mob each and every day.

    Wow. No wonder this anti-elite stuff is popular!
    For fans of American history, see John Adams vs Thomas Jefferson on the subject of "natural aristocracy" - Jefferson thought the brightest and the best should be running the show, Adams was suspicious that such a "natural aristocracy", if such a group could ever be distinguished, would likely evolve into an European-style plain-old "aristocracy" anyway - precisely the thing that Jefferson hated, and accused the Federalists of ideologically supporting. Ironically, John Adams and John Quincy Adams formed the first "father and son" dynasty of presidents.

    Andrew Jackson, a fierce rival of John Quincy Adams, was an avowed anti-elitist Despite owning 150 slaves or so at his peak, which put him in the high end of the plantation elite himself, Jackson was a self-made man from humble roots, a teenage orphan who hadn't attended college (John Q. Adams, like his father before him, was a Harvard man) which went against the Jeffersonian ideal of an intellectual, well-educated leadership group. The idea of giving the little guy a say, instead of letting the wealthy and well-connected pull strings in dark rooms - even on things we'd find unpalatable in the UK, like electing our judges to make sure they share a similar worldview to the general population - is a characteristic of American public life that comes from the age of Jacksonian democracy.
    Yes - I find it interesting that, here in the UK, the new upper 10,000 are quick to scream at the idea of "elitism". Perhaps mirrors are out of fashion....
  • Options
    MTimT said:

    SeanT said:

    MTimT said:

    Sweden? Are you sure? That's insanity. They're struggling badly enough to cope with the ones they already have.

    Sweden, the mad old cat lady of refugees. Too many to be able to take care of each of them properly.
    Relatedly, look at this. An incredible, semi-official ad lecturing Swedes about migration. "There's no way back, Sweden will never be what it once was"

    http://www.9news.com.au/world/2016/09/20/10/51/theres-no-way-back-swedes-told-to-accept-massive-wave-of-migrants#A8cii5dcLbKEyFwY.99
    Thanks, Sean. Depressing reading:

    "New Swedes will claim their space and bring their culture, language and customs"

    Not wrong that they bring them, but the implication that they should keep them in their entirety is so wrong and completely at odds with the statement at the end that "denied ... that the message asks Swedes to give up their "old" culture", as is the idea that there is no going back.
    Bloody hell.

    However well-meaning that is, I can't help but think that's miscalculated.

    Of course there's some truth in "even existing Swedes must integrate", but I can't see how being told that in an advert is going to cheer up many of those who are cautious about immigration, let alone make them more open to it. The message is, explicitly, that you are living in a new country, and you need to change with it.

    The logical corollary of that, is We (meaning, the immigrants, or at a higher level, the politicians who have directed this flow of immigrants) have taken your old country away from you. It's up to you to fit into the new one we are crafting for you.

    If people end up feeling that they "need to take their country back", well, small wonder.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,992
    vik said:

    AndyJS said:

    538 puts Trump's chances at 44%, the highest so far:

    http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/?ex_cid=rrpromo

    On the Now-Cast, his chances are 48%. :)

    Just a few more good polls for Trump, and liberals can really start freaking out.
    Amusingly, I was with a senior City economist today, and we agreed that Trump was definitely the best option as far as our portfolio went. However, there was the non negligible chance that - should Donald Trump be elected - that he would take the US out of NAFTA and the WTO. A 1930s style collapse in world trade would not be good news.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,992
    I have just bought the most extraordinary laptop/tablet combo, the Lenovo Yoga Book. It's an extraordinary feat of engineering; but I really wish I could get the touch keyboard to stop vibrating when I type.
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    50% of Australians want to "ban Muslim immigration". Completely. That's further to the right than Trump.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/sep/21/race-discrimination-commissioner-criticises-pauline-hanson-for-stoking-division?CMP=share_btn_tw

    Something huge and serious is happening to western politics. Brexit is just part of it.

    My fear as a pro-European is that Brexit doesn't have much to do with it - people just took the best opportunity they had to kick the table over - and therefore the British establishment will completely fail to understand the message they have been given. If this happens we'll end up behind even the rest of Western Europe in responding to the changes around us, and will come to regret reaching for the apparent quick fix of leaving the EU.
    Your europhilia is just ludicrous. And its blinding you to the obvious.

    Merkel's invitation to 1.3m mainly Muslim refugees was hugely important in the Brexit victory. Many voters realised we had no control on them eventually coming to the UK. So that was one reason they voted OUT.

    The Paris atrocities likewise.
    50.7% of Bosnians are Muslims
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnia_and_Herzegovina#Ethnic_groups
    I think it was about 44% back in the 90s.
    Indeed but if you allow Bosnia and Albania into the EU which are now both majority Muslim and relatively poor, the argument against Turkey eventually joining too begins to fall apart
    Bosnia and Albania? Will they even join before Brexit occurs?
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:


    Amusingly, I was with a senior City economist today, and we agreed that Trump was definitely the best option as far as our portfolio went.

    You're heavily invested in canned food and guns?
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    rcs1000 said:

    I have just bought the most extraordinary laptop/tablet combo, the Lenovo Yoga Book. It's an extraordinary feat of engineering; but I really wish I could get the touch keyboard to stop vibrating when I type.

    Rest the keyboard on your lap when you type. This will help you type more and faster ;)
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    I have just bought the most extraordinary laptop/tablet combo, the Lenovo Yoga Book. It's an extraordinary feat of engineering; but I really wish I could get the touch keyboard to stop vibrating when I type.

    Ohhh... I've been wanting to try one of those since I saw the preview. It looks like the perfect note taking device while in meetings.
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    rcs1000 said:


    Amusingly, I was with a senior City economist today, and we agreed that Trump was definitely the best option as far as our portfolio went.

    You're heavily invested in canned food and guns?
    or bricks and cement ;)
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,992

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    50% of Australians want to "ban Muslim immigration". Completely. That's further to the right than Trump.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/sep/21/race-discrimination-commissioner-criticises-pauline-hanson-for-stoking-division?CMP=share_btn_tw

    Something huge and serious is happening to western politics. Brexit is just part of it.

    My fear as a pro-European is that Brexit doesn't have much to do with it - people just took the best opportunity they had to kick the table over - and therefore the British establishment will completely fail to understand the message they have been given. If this happens we'll end up behind even the rest of Western Europe in responding to the changes around us, and will come to regret reaching for the apparent quick fix of leaving the EU.
    Your europhilia is just ludicrous. And its blinding you to the obvious.

    Merkel's invitation to 1.3m mainly Muslim refugees was hugely important in the Brexit victory. Many voters realised we had no control on them eventually coming to the UK. So that was one reason they voted OUT.

    The Paris atrocities likewise.
    50.7% of Bosnians are Muslims
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnia_and_Herzegovina#Ethnic_groups
    I think it was about 44% back in the 90s.
    Indeed but if you allow Bosnia and Albania into the EU which are now both majority Muslim and relatively poor, the argument against Turkey eventually joining too begins to fall apart
    Bosnia and Albania? Will they even join before Brexit occurs?
    Albania is currently on 0/33 for accession (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_Albania_to_the_European_Union), which is worse even than Turkey. Both the Danish and Dutch governments have said they will accept Albania as an EU member in the foreseeable future.

    Realistically (and I don't know anything about Bosnia), I think they are both around a decade away from joining - if the EU in its current state even exists then.
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    Tim_B said:

    nunu said:

    Tim_B said:

    524,000 absentee ballots have been requested in Ohio this election.

    Is that a lot compared to normal?
    40,000 up on last time.
    Wow. Do u have a link please.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited September 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    I have just bought the most extraordinary laptop/tablet combo, the Lenovo Yoga Book. It's an extraordinary feat of engineering; but I really wish I could get the touch keyboard to stop vibrating when I type.

    This thread brought to you via the official tablet of PB.com the Lenovo Yoga Book...
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,335
    AndyJS said:

    The Swedish government-sponsored ad:

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoQFUBgAMyo

    The case for this sort of thing is a bit like the people here who said before the referendum that if we voted yes they'd want us to buy the whole package - integration, join the Euro, etc. The Swedes feel that if they've decided to take lots of refugees it's vital to show some enthusiasm, not treat it as an unpleasant duty which they hope will ease off soon. The parties that support the policy have an overwhelming majority in Parliament and they don't see why the Sweden Democrats (currently polling at 16%, much like the AfD) should get to water down the message.

  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,992
    Tim_B said:

    rcs1000 said:


    Amusingly, I was with a senior City economist today, and we agreed that Trump was definitely the best option as far as our portfolio went.

    You're heavily invested in canned food and guns?
    or bricks and cement ;)
    We are long reflation.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,992

    rcs1000 said:

    I have just bought the most extraordinary laptop/tablet combo, the Lenovo Yoga Book. It's an extraordinary feat of engineering; but I really wish I could get the touch keyboard to stop vibrating when I type.

    Ohhh... I've been wanting to try one of those since I saw the preview. It looks like the perfect note taking device while in meetings.
    Are you based in London? If so I will happily give a demo.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005
    SeanT said:

    MTimT said:

    SeanT said:

    MTimT said:

    Sweden? Are you sure? That's insanity. They're struggling badly enough to cope with the ones they already have.

    Sweden, the mad old cat lady of refugees. Too many to be able to take care of each of them properly.
    Relatedly, look at this. An incredible, semi-official ad lecturing Swedes about migration. "There's no way back, Sweden will never be what it once was"

    http://www.9news.com.au/world/2016/09/20/10/51/theres-no-way-back-swedes-told-to-accept-massive-wave-of-migrants#A8cii5dcLbKEyFwY.99
    Thanks, Sean. Depressing reading:

    "New Swedes will claim their space and bring their culture, language and customs"

    Not wrong that they bring them, but the implication that they should keep them in their entirety is so wrong and completely at odds with the statement at the end that "denied ... that the message asks Swedes to give up their "old" culture", as is the idea that there is no going back.
    It's the creepy, menacing tone that gets me. Like a Big Brother telecast from 1984.

    Maybe this sells well in Sweden??? In Britain it would cause hilarity and revulsion.
    The anti immigration Swedish Democrats were already ahead in one opinion poll this month, doubt that video will do much to lower their support
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I have just bought the most extraordinary laptop/tablet combo, the Lenovo Yoga Book. It's an extraordinary feat of engineering; but I really wish I could get the touch keyboard to stop vibrating when I type.

    Ohhh... I've been wanting to try one of those since I saw the preview. It looks like the perfect note taking device while in meetings.
    Are you based in London? If so I will happily give a demo.
    At the moment yes. That would be great. :)
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,992
    edited September 2016

    rcs1000 said:

    I have just bought the most extraordinary laptop/tablet combo, the Lenovo Yoga Book. It's an extraordinary feat of engineering; but I really wish I could get the touch keyboard to stop vibrating when I type.

    This thread brought to you via the official tablet of PB.com the Lenovo Yoga Book..
    Hey, among my other hobbies, I'm a complete tech geek. It's a cross I have to bear.

    (My wife said she's very grateful that my quest for the new seems only to involve gadgets.)
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    50% of Australians want to "ban Muslim immigration". Completely. That's further to the right than Trump.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/sep/21/race-discrimination-commissioner-criticises-pauline-hanson-for-stoking-division?CMP=share_btn_tw

    Something huge and serious is happening to western politics. Brexit is just part of it.

    My fear as a pro-European is that Brexit doesn't have much to do with it - people just took the best opportunity they had to kick the table over - and therefore the British establishment will completely fail to understand the message they have been given. If this happens we'll end up behind even the rest of Western Europe in responding to the changes around us, and will come to regret reaching for the apparent quick fix of leaving the EU.
    Your europhilia is just ludicrous. And its blinding you to the obvious.

    Merkel's invitation to 1.3m mainly Muslim refugees was hugely important in the Brexit victory. Many voters realised we had no control on them eventually coming to the UK. So that was one reason they voted OUT.

    The Paris atrocities likewise.
    50.7% of Bosnians are Muslims
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnia_and_Herzegovina#Ethnic_groups
    I think it was about 44% back in the 90s.
    Indeed but if you allow Bosnia and Albania into the EU which are now both majority Muslim and relatively poor, the argument against Turkey eventually joining too begins to fall apart
    Bosnia and Albania? Will they even join before Brexit occurs?
    No but they show where the EU could be headed, both have GDP per capitals even below Turkey so inevitably would see mass migration to western Europe if they were ever to benefit from free movement
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,992

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I have just bought the most extraordinary laptop/tablet combo, the Lenovo Yoga Book. It's an extraordinary feat of engineering; but I really wish I could get the touch keyboard to stop vibrating when I type.

    Ohhh... I've been wanting to try one of those since I saw the preview. It looks like the perfect note taking device while in meetings.
    Are you based in London? If so I will happily give a demo.
    At the moment yes. That would be great. :)
    I'll drop you an email...
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I have just bought the most extraordinary laptop/tablet combo, the Lenovo Yoga Book. It's an extraordinary feat of engineering; but I really wish I could get the touch keyboard to stop vibrating when I type.

    This thread brought to you via the official tablet of PB.com the Lenovo Yoga Book..
    Hey, among my other hobbies, I'm a complete tech geek. It's a cross I have to bear.

    (My wife said she's very grateful that my quest for the new seems only to involve gadgets.)
    It looks interesting. How good is the OCR for handwriting etc?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,992
    edited September 2016

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I have just bought the most extraordinary laptop/tablet combo, the Lenovo Yoga Book. It's an extraordinary feat of engineering; but I really wish I could get the touch keyboard to stop vibrating when I type.

    This thread brought to you via the official tablet of PB.com the Lenovo Yoga Book..
    Hey, among my other hobbies, I'm a complete tech geek. It's a cross I have to bear.

    (My wife said she's very grateful that my quest for the new seems only to involve gadgets.)
    It looks interesting. How good is the OCR for handwriting etc?
    I don't know, I only got it today, and the pen is on my bedside table :)
    I could go and get it, but I don't want to wake my wife.

    It is definitely excellent value: I got the Windows version, and it's still cheaper than an ipad.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I have just bought the most extraordinary laptop/tablet combo, the Lenovo Yoga Book. It's an extraordinary feat of engineering; but I really wish I could get the touch keyboard to stop vibrating when I type.

    This thread brought to you via the official tablet of PB.com the Lenovo Yoga Book..
    Hey, among my other hobbies, I'm a complete tech geek. It's a cross I have to bear.

    (My wife said she's very grateful that my quest for the new seems only to involve gadgets.)
    It looks interesting. How good is the OCR for handwriting etc?
    I don't know, I only got it today, and the pen is on my bedside table :)
    I could go and get it, but I don't want to wake my wife.

    It is definitely excellent value: I got the Windows version, and it's still cheaper than an ipad.
    Do she know that you are online chatting to strangers? ;)
  • Options
    Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    edited September 2016
    Just on two threads back. You want to kick the 'establishment' for not being truthful or assertive when it comes to terrorism on US soil, you only have to look at the arrested nutjob Rahimi with his bombs.

    The guy had clear smoke yet the authorities, right up the President kept talking of an isolated guy with no clear motive and no clear group connection.

    Time will show this to be a bag of balls.

    Just as a note, there are a fair number of parallel cases similar to this guy living in the UK and we are as equally likely to have an Al Qaeda directed attack as an IS one bearing in mind Al Qaeda had the stronger potential recruit base in the UK than IS and to some extent, still could. IS would on paper have a harder task building an organised network of UK citizens than Al Qaeda and that has helped the UK avoid higher IS activity in the past.

    Not so confident now though.


  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,992
    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I have just bought the most extraordinary laptop/tablet combo, the Lenovo Yoga Book. It's an extraordinary feat of engineering; but I really wish I could get the touch keyboard to stop vibrating when I type.

    This thread brought to you via the official tablet of PB.com the Lenovo Yoga Book..
    Hey, among my other hobbies, I'm a complete tech geek. It's a cross I have to bear.

    (My wife said she's very grateful that my quest for the new seems only to involve gadgets.)
    It looks interesting. How good is the OCR for handwriting etc?
    I don't know, I only got it today, and the pen is on my bedside table :)
    I could go and get it, but I don't want to wake my wife.

    It is definitely excellent value: I got the Windows version, and it's still cheaper than an ipad.
    Do she know that you are online chatting to strangers? ;)
    She knows I'm pretty strange already...
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,992
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    50% of Australians want to "ban Muslim immigration". Completely. That's further to the right than Trump.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/sep/21/race-discrimination-commissioner-criticises-pauline-hanson-for-stoking-division?CMP=share_btn_tw

    Something huge and serious is happening to western politics. Brexit is just part of it.

    My fear as a pro-European is that Brexit doesn't have much to do with it - people just took the best opportunity they had to kick the table over - and therefore the British establishment will completely fail to understand the message they have been given. If this happens we'll end up behind even the rest of Western Europe in responding to the changes around us, and will come to regret reaching for the apparent quick fix of leaving the EU.
    Your europhilia is just ludicrous. And its blinding you to the obvious.

    Merkel's invitation to 1.3m mainly Muslim refugees was hugely important in the Brexit victory. Many voters realised we had no control on them eventually coming to the UK. So that was one reason they voted OUT.

    The Paris atrocities likewise.
    50.7% of Bosnians are Muslims
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnia_and_Herzegovina#Ethnic_groups
    I think it was about 44% back in the 90s.
    Indeed but if you allow Bosnia and Albania into the EU which are now both majority Muslim and relatively poor, the argument against Turkey eventually joining too begins to fall apart
    Bosnia and Albania? Will they even join before Brexit occurs?
    No but they show where the EU could be headed, both have GDP per capitals even below Turkey so inevitably would see mass migration to western Europe if they were ever to benefit from free movement
    Although they're both also tiny: c. 3.5m people each.
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    rcs1000 said:

    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I have just bought the most extraordinary laptop/tablet combo, the Lenovo Yoga Book. It's an extraordinary feat of engineering; but I really wish I could get the touch keyboard to stop vibrating when I type.

    This thread brought to you via the official tablet of PB.com the Lenovo Yoga Book..
    Hey, among my other hobbies, I'm a complete tech geek. It's a cross I have to bear.

    (My wife said she's very grateful that my quest for the new seems only to involve gadgets.)
    It looks interesting. How good is the OCR for handwriting etc?
    I don't know, I only got it today, and the pen is on my bedside table :)
    I could go and get it, but I don't want to wake my wife.

    It is definitely excellent value: I got the Windows version, and it's still cheaper than an ipad.
    Do she know that you are online chatting to strangers? ;)
    She knows I'm pretty strange already...
    If you are sitting in your basement in your underwear typing the image is perfect....
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,992
    Tim_B said:

    rcs1000 said:

    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I have just bought the most extraordinary laptop/tablet combo, the Lenovo Yoga Book. It's an extraordinary feat of engineering; but I really wish I could get the touch keyboard to stop vibrating when I type.

    This thread brought to you via the official tablet of PB.com the Lenovo Yoga Book..
    Hey, among my other hobbies, I'm a complete tech geek. It's a cross I have to bear.

    (My wife said she's very grateful that my quest for the new seems only to involve gadgets.)
    It looks interesting. How good is the OCR for handwriting etc?
    I don't know, I only got it today, and the pen is on my bedside table :)
    I could go and get it, but I don't want to wake my wife.

    It is definitely excellent value: I got the Windows version, and it's still cheaper than an ipad.
    Do she know that you are online chatting to strangers? ;)
    She knows I'm pretty strange already...
    If you are sitting in your basement in your underwear typing the image is perfect....
    The conservatory in my PJs...
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    rcs1000 said:

    Tim_B said:

    rcs1000 said:

    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I have just bought the most extraordinary laptop/tablet combo, the Lenovo Yoga Book. It's an extraordinary feat of engineering; but I really wish I could get the touch keyboard to stop vibrating when I type.

    This thread brought to you via the official tablet of PB.com the Lenovo Yoga Book..
    Hey, among my other hobbies, I'm a complete tech geek. It's a cross I have to bear.

    (My wife said she's very grateful that my quest for the new seems only to involve gadgets.)
    It looks interesting. How good is the OCR for handwriting etc?
    I don't know, I only got it today, and the pen is on my bedside table :)
    I could go and get it, but I don't want to wake my wife.

    It is definitely excellent value: I got the Windows version, and it's still cheaper than an ipad.
    Do she know that you are online chatting to strangers? ;)
    She knows I'm pretty strange already...
    If you are sitting in your basement in your underwear typing the image is perfect....
    The conservatory in my PJs...
    Now it sounds like you're playing Cluedo!
  • Options
    Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    Tim_B said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Tim_B said:

    rcs1000 said:

    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I have just bought the most extraordinary laptop/tablet combo, the Lenovo Yoga Book. It's an extraordinary feat of engineering; but I really wish I could get the touch keyboard to stop vibrating when I type.

    This thread brought to you via the official tablet of PB.com the Lenovo Yoga Book..
    Hey, among my other hobbies, I'm a complete tech geek. It's a cross I have to bear.

    (My wife said she's very grateful that my quest for the new seems only to involve gadgets.)
    It looks interesting. How good is the OCR for handwriting etc?
    I don't know, I only got it today, and the pen is on my bedside table :)
    I could go and get it, but I don't want to wake my wife.

    It is definitely excellent value: I got the Windows version, and it's still cheaper than an ipad.
    Do she know that you are online chatting to strangers? ;)
    She knows I'm pretty strange already...
    If you are sitting in your basement in your underwear typing the image is perfect....
    The conservatory in my PJs...
    Now it sounds like you're playing Cluedo!
    Lets have no talk of lead pipes....
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Y0kel said:

    Tim_B said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Tim_B said:

    rcs1000 said:

    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I have just bought the most extraordinary laptop/tablet combo, the Lenovo Yoga Book. It's an extraordinary feat of engineering; but I really wish I could get the touch keyboard to stop vibrating when I type.

    This thread brought to you via the official tablet of PB.com the Lenovo Yoga Book..
    Hey, among my other hobbies, I'm a complete tech geek. It's a cross I have to bear.

    (My wife said she's very grateful that my quest for the new seems only to involve gadgets.)
    It looks interesting. How good is the OCR for handwriting etc?
    I don't know, I only got it today, and the pen is on my bedside table :)
    I could go and get it, but I don't want to wake my wife.

    It is definitely excellent value: I got the Windows version, and it's still cheaper than an ipad.
    Do she know that you are online chatting to strangers? ;)
    She knows I'm pretty strange already...
    If you are sitting in your basement in your underwear typing the image is perfect....
    The conservatory in my PJs...
    Now it sounds like you're playing Cluedo!
    Lets have no talk of lead pipes....
    As the Lenovo comes with its own 'pen', you know he has no lead in his pencil ;)
  • Options
    MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    edited September 2016
    One of Britain's richest political parties (surprisingly), the Commonwealth Liberation Party, has a video on youtube I'd not spotted before about its leader, Her Knowledgeable Professor Alexia Thomas, Angel of Hope.

    In it, the party promises that its leader, Her Knowledgeable Professor Alexia Thomas, Goddess of Love, has a "mission in the world: an orchestration of a symbolic supernatural being through the film titled The Clash of the Titans".

    I'm not convinced their about to win many by-elections based on that manifesto pledge.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DUcvBUcZvQ
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,542

    One of Britain's richest political parties (surprisingly), the Commonwealth Liberation Party, has a video on youtube I'd not spotted before about its leader, Her Knowledgeable Professor Alexia Thomas, Angel of Hope.

    In it, the party promises that its leader, Her Knowledgeable Professor Alexia Thomas, Goddess of Love, has a "mission in the world: an orchestration of a symbolic supernatural being through the film titled The Clash of the Titans".

    I'm not convinced their about to win many by-elections based on that manifesto pledge.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DUcvBUcZvQ

    Now why can't Eoin for England be a Knowledgeable Professor rather than a mere Dr? IT would be so much more impressive.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,542
    SeanT said:

    MTimT said:

    SeanT said:

    MTimT said:

    Sweden? Are you sure? That's insanity. They're struggling badly enough to cope with the ones they already have.

    Sweden, the mad old cat lady of refugees. Too many to be able to take care of each of them properly.
    Relatedly, look at this. An incredible, semi-official ad lecturing Swedes about migration. "There's no way back, Sweden will never be what it once was"

    http://www.9news.com.au/world/2016/09/20/10/51/theres-no-way-back-swedes-told-to-accept-massive-wave-of-migrants#A8cii5dcLbKEyFwY.99
    Thanks, Sean. Depressing reading:

    "New Swedes will claim their space and bring their culture, language and customs"

    Not wrong that they bring them, but the implication that they should keep them in their entirety is so wrong and completely at odds with the statement at the end that "denied ... that the message asks Swedes to give up their "old" culture", as is the idea that there is no going back.
    It's the creepy, menacing tone that gets me. Like a Big Brother telecast from 1984.

    Maybe this sells well in Sweden??? In Britain it would cause hilarity and revulsion.
    They will try though.

    Remember the style of the 10:10 video?
  • Options
    PaulyPauly Posts: 897
    I have finally worked out why the libdems are outperforming at local level and floundering at national level. Bitter or sad EU nationals are allowed to vote but not in General Elections. Theresa May should put this right as part of the Brexit agreement and rightly so.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    50% of Australians want to "ban Muslim immigration". Completely. That's further to the right than Trump.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/sep/21/race-discrimination-commissioner-criticises-pauline-hanson-for-stoking-division?CMP=share_btn_tw

    Something huge and serious is happening to western politics. Brexit is just part of it.

    My fear as a pro-European is that Brexit doesn't have much to do with it - people just took the best opportunity they had to kick the table over - and therefore the British establishment will completely fail to understand the message they have been given. If this happens we'll end up behind even the rest of Western Europe in responding to the changes around us, and will come to regret reaching for the apparent quick fix of leaving the EU.
    Your europhilia is just ludicrous. And its blinding you to the obvious.

    Merkel's invitation to 1.3m mainly Muslim refugees was hugely important in the Brexit victory. Many voters realised we had no control on them eventually coming to the UK. So that was one reason they voted OUT.

    The Paris atrocities likewise.
    50.7% of Bosnians are Muslims
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnia_and_Herzegovina#Ethnic_groups
    I think it was about 44% back in the 90s.
    Indeed but if you allow Bosnia and Albania into the EU which are now both majority Muslim and relatively poor, the argument against Turkey eventually joining too begins to fall apart
    Bosnia and Albania? Will they even join before Brexit occurs?
    No but they show where the EU could be headed, both have GDP per capitals even below Turkey so inevitably would see mass migration to western Europe if they were ever to benefit from free movement
    Although they're both also tiny: c. 3.5m people each.
    If a quarter of them moved that would be 850,000 people and Serbia which may also move has 7 million.
  • Options
    sladeslade Posts: 1,932

    PClipp said:

    slade said:

    Cardiff result: LD 1258, Lab 910, PC 177, Con 115, Green 93, UKIP 62. LD gain from Labour.

    Where in Cardiff was that, Mr Slade? Seems strange having a local government byelection today.

    Though perhaps it bodes well for Lib Dem prospects in Witney.
    Not convinced that isolated local government by-elections tell us much of value. Small samples, obviously subject to specific local conditions, also people can vote significantly differently in different kinds of elections. For example, the LDs have done very well in this tiny little council seat, but they failed miserably in the Welsh Assembly election earlier in the year. Even if their sole surviving AM was awarded a cabinet post in exchange for helping to keep Labour in office.

    The GE 2015 headline polling numbers were broadly accurate for the smaller parties, and the Lib Dems ended up winning around 8% of the national vote then. They're still polling 8%, where they have been for at least the last two years (since they fell below the 10% at which they had been flatlining for the three years before that.) There is, as yet, no significant evidence to indicate a recovery.
    The election was in the Plasnewydd ward. It was last fought in 2012 and compared to that the votes this time were LD +15.4%, Lab -2.0, PC -5.3, Con -1.2, Green -9.3, UKIP +2.4. That I think represents significant movement.
This discussion has been closed.