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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Betting on WH2016 & Witney plus prospects for a “LD fightba

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  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,847
    Sean_F said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    Mr. Charles, an interesting suggestion.

    Also plays into trying to close down 'wrong speech' and having such stupid finickity terms that Benedict Cumberbatch, not renowned for being a raging right winger, apologised profusely after saying 'coloured person' rather than 'person of colour'.

    Mr. Jessop, jein. An issue with immigration/multi-culturalism is that sensitivity over it has led in the recent past to multiple claims [eventually proven correct] of sexual molestation of children simply not being investigated, and those against large scale migration being attacked as racist. So, right wingers being strident over such things have an understandable reaction to that. (Snip)

    Left-wingers reaction to things are equally understandable, e.g. to racism and homophobia.

    Some of the reaction to the awful cases in Rotherham, Oxford et al has been racist, especially when people extend what happened to broad groups. Not all of it, of course, but there has been a heavy undercurrent of racism. Oddly, we do not see such reactions when it is the churches, or white people performing abuses. Or even when it is Muslim girls being abused - it is only the white girls that matter (tm).
    I could be wrong, but as far as I can tell, the Roman Catholic Church has received a huge amount of criticism over child abuse.

    What took place in Rotherham seems to me to be one of the worst scandals in local government/child protection that I can recall.
    Yes the Catholic Church has had a lot of well deserved critisim, and has worked hard to get on top of the issue under the new Pope, the previous incumbent choosing to retire early as the scale of what had occurred dawned on him.

    Unfortunately I don't see the same level of responsibility taken by those who actively covered up these things for decades in some cases. Where are the prosecutions of police and social service directors for aiding and abetting the abuse in Rotherham and other places?
    It's somewhat similar to the scandals involving Islington Childrens' Homes, where, for political reasons, people who were in charge of child protection looked the other way as children were abused.
    Quite. These institutional problems don't fix themselves, requires at worst a complete clear out of the chain of command, and at best those who turned a deliberate blind eye to abuse prosecuted.

    My biggest frustration is that local government hand out six figure salaries to senior staff, yet they never seem to have to take responsibility for problems that occur on their watch. If they're not going to be responsible they don't deserve the salaries.
  • Options
    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    Jobabob said:

    weejonnie said:

    Jobabob said:

    619 said:

    LA times poll has Trump with +2.4, and with 5.2% of the black vote.

    Definite swing toward Hillary being picked up there.

    Polling moving back towards Hillary. Even Fox had her -2 in NC, which she does not need...
    But Trump seems to be holding up in the Swing states (And I make it Trump +5 in NC, Ohio and +3 in Nevada by Fox). This latest black rioting and Trump suggesting Stop & Search as a means of reducing crime may cost him votes in Florida, though.
    Hillary doesn't need any of those states however
    If she loses Michigan or Wisconsin then she does. Trump is ahead in 2 legs of FOP.
  • Options

    New report out today by Centre for Cities shows that most UK cities are below the European average in terms of productivity. You can also see this in standard of living stats.

    In other words, outside London and it's hinterland the country is approx at East German or West Polish levels of development.

    We are in effect a below average country with a world city attached to it.

    Very obvious on this chart: image

    I fear Aberdeen would not be getting a green spot in 2016.
  • Options
    Interesting read....

    Jon Lansman is the head of Momentum, the movement trying to chase every moderate out of the Labour party

    http://life.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/letting-the-hard-left-off-the-leash/

  • Options
    619619 Posts: 1,784

    weejonnie said:

    619 said:

    New NBC poll

    Clinton leads against Trump with Latino voters nationwide by 71-18

    Romney had 27%

    AFAICS Trump is losing the white college workers, the white non-college workers, the blacks, the Latinos/ Hispanics people earning over $75,000, people earning under $75,000 and every group under the sun.

    Yet he is polling within 2 points of HRC and within touching distance of the EC!
    Perhaps asking people demographic questions should be considered a form of push polling when identity politics is a live topic. It would explain a lot of the discrepancies.
    He isn't losing under £75k. He is winning with White's overall, hence within touching distance. It's fair to say there is enough evidence though that he is massively out with all other groups.
  • Options
    619619 Posts: 1,784
    nunu said:

    619 said:

    New NBC poll

    Clinton leads against Trump with Latino voters nationwide by 71-18

    Romney had 27%

    is that the sample breakdown showing her ahead 6 points or a sepreate poll.
    Separate poll I think
  • Options

    New report out today by Centre for Cities shows that most UK cities are below the European average in terms of productivity. You can also see this in standard of living stats.

    In other words, outside London and it's hinterland the country is approx at East German or West Polish levels of development.

    We are in effect a below average country with a world city attached to it.

    Very obvious on this chart: image

    I fear Aberdeen would not be getting a green spot in 2016.
    Interesting. No doubt there is a UK productivity question. But answers are more difficult. David Smith in Sunday Times had a piece on this last week or week before. One issue, potentially, is our flexible labour laws make it easier to buy in people to do stuff than invest in machinery or spending time managing things more efficiently. Compare with France. Lots of unemployment, but higher capital investment in productivity type stuff. He says this is one issue, may only be a small one.
  • Options

    nunu said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Mr. Charles, an interesting suggestion.

    Also plays into trying to close down 'wrong speech' and having such stupid finickity terms that Benedict Cumberbatch, not renowned for being a raging right winger, apologised profusely after saying 'coloured person' rather than 'person of colour'.

    Mr. Jessop, jein. An issue with immigration/multi-culturalism is that sensitivity over it has led in the recent past to multiple claims [eventually proven correct] of sexual molestation of children simply not being investigated, and those against large scale migration being attacked as racist. So, right wingers being strident over such things have an understandable reaction to that. (Snip)

    Left-wingers reaction to things are equally understandable, e.g. to racism and homophobia.

    Some of the reaction to the awful cases in Rotherham, Oxford et al has been racist, especially when people extend what happened to broad groups. Not all of it, of course, but there has been a heavy undercurrent of racism. Oddly, we do not see such reactions when it is the churches, or white people performing abuses. Or even when it is Muslim girls being abused - it is only the white girls that matter (tm).
    I could be wrong, but as far as I can tell, the Roman Catholic Church has received a huge amount of criticism over child abuse.

    What took place in Rotherham seems to me to be one of the worst scandals in local government/child protection that I can recall.
    Absolutely. The situation was totally hushed up/underreported for years - only peoeple like the BNP would touch it. Set against that, Catholic (any Christian actually) abuses have been splashed across the media, and widely, not to say gleefully, reported and dramatised/fictionalised in books, television, film etc. JJ's description is a rather shocking inversion of the truth.
    Some people are doubtless motivated by hatred of Catholics to criticise the Church over child abuse, rather than any real concern for the victims. It doesn't alter the fact that there's much to criticise.

    That construction could of course be applied to Rotherham.
    Yesterday he was asking what is wrong with slavery after another poster quoted a survey where 20% of Trump suporters said they thought the abolition of slavery was bad.

    Sometimes I can smell the hypocrisy through the computer screen.
    Pretending to be extremely right wing when he's only very right wing is Sean F's party piece.
    I think.
    Probably.
    Uniondivvie is racist against hairy people!
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    New report out today by Centre for Cities shows that most UK cities are below the European average in terms of productivity. You can also see this in standard of living stats.

    In other words, outside London and it's hinterland the country is approx at East German or West Polish levels of development.

    We are in effect a below average country with a world city attached to it.

    Very obvious on this chart: image

    You're going to get @rcs1000 very upset about measuring productivity in a minute or so!
  • Options

    New report out today by Centre for Cities shows that most UK cities are below the European average in terms of productivity. You can also see this in standard of living stats.

    In other words, outside London and it's hinterland the country is approx at East German or West Polish levels of development.

    We are in effect a below average country with a world city attached to it.

    Very obvious on this chart: image

    Why have the Portuguese and a swathe of Central/Eastern Europe been excluded?
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,847
    PlatoSaid said:

    Matthew Goodwin
    Presidential debates approaching. Do they make a difference? This from @LarrySabato brilliant e-mail bulletin https://t.co/hI1RbIODfX

    What did Carter do to screw up in '76?
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799
    nunu said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Mr. Charles, an interesting suggestion.

    Also plays into trying to close down 'wrong speech' and having such stupid finickity terms that Benedict Cumberbatch, not renowned for being a raging right winger, apologised profusely after saying 'coloured person' rather than 'person of colour'.

    Mr. Jessop, jein. An issue with immigration/multi-culturalism is that sensitivity over it has led in the recent past to multiple claims [eventually proven correct] of sexual molestation of children simply not being investigated, and those against large scale migration being attacked as racist. So, right wingers being strident over such things have an understandable reaction to that. (Snip)

    Left-wingers reaction to things are equally understandable, e.g. to racism and homophobia.

    Some of the reaction to the awful cases in Rotherham, Oxford et al has been racist, especially when people extend what happened to broad groups. Not all of it, of course, but there has been a heavy undercurrent of racism. Oddly, we do not see such reactions when it is the churches, or white people performing abuses. Or even when it is Muslim girls being abused - it is only the white girls that matter (tm).
    I could be wrong, but as far as I can tell, the Roman Catholic Church has received a huge amount of criticism over child abuse.

    What took place in Rotherham seems to me to be one of the worst scandals in local government/child protection that I can recall.
    Absolutely. The situation was totally hushed up/underreported for years - only peoeple like the BNP would touch it. Set against that, Catholic (any Christian actually) abuses have been splashed across the media, and widely, not to say gleefully, reported and dramatised/fictionalised in books, television, film etc. JJ's description is a rather shocking inversion of the truth.
    Some people are doubtless motivated by hatred of Catholics to criticise the Church over child abuse, rather than any real concern for the victims. It doesn't alter the fact that there's much to criticise.

    That construction could of course be applied to Rotherham.
    Yesterday he was asking what is wrong with slavery after another poster quoted a survey where 20% of Trump suporters said they thought the abolition of slavery was bad.

    Sometimes I can smell the hypocrisy through the computer screen.
    I did rather hope that people would realise I was only teasing. I can confirm that I oppose slavery.
  • Options
    Mr. Eagles, the mole Alexander had built to besiege Tyre* would've been impossible without the forced labour of the local population.

    *It's a rather characteristic approach of Alexander to decide the best way to besiege an island is to extend the landmass itself so he can attack it properly.
  • Options
    Sandpit said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Matthew Goodwin
    Presidential debates approaching. Do they make a difference? This from @LarrySabato brilliant e-mail bulletin https://t.co/hI1RbIODfX

    What did Carter do to screw up in '76?
    I think was more to do with a playboy interview Carter did at the time. (No really)
  • Options
    Sean_F said:

    nunu said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Mr. Charles, an interesting suggestion.

    Also plays into trying to close down 'wrong speech' and having such stupid finickity terms that Benedict Cumberbatch, not renowned for being a raging right winger, apologised profusely after saying 'coloured person' rather than 'person of colour'.

    Mr. Jessop, jein. An issue with immigration/multi-culturalism is that sensitivity over it has led in the recent past to multiple claims [eventually proven correct] of sexual molestation of children simply not being investigated, and those against large scale migration being attacked as racist. So, right wingers being strident over such things have an understandable reaction to that. (Snip)

    Left-wingers reaction to things are equally understandable, e.g. to racism and homophobia.

    Some of the reaction to the awful cases in Rotherham, Oxford et al has been racist, especially when people extend what happened to broad groups. Not all of it, of course, but there has been a heavy undercurrent of racism. Oddly, we do not see such reactions when it is the churches, or white people performing abuses. Or even when it is Muslim girls being abused - it is only the white girls that matter (tm).
    I could be wrong, but as far as I can tell, the Roman Catholic Church has received a huge amount of criticism over child abuse.

    What took place in Rotherham seems to me to be one of the worst scandals in local government/child protection that I can recall.
    Absolutely. The situation was totally hushed up/underreported for years - only peoeple like the BNP would touch it. Set against that, Catholic (any Christian actually) abuses have been splashed across the media, and widely, not to say gleefully, reported and dramatised/fictionalised in books, television, film etc. JJ's description is a rather shocking inversion of the truth.
    Some people are doubtless motivated by hatred of Catholics to criticise the Church over child abuse, rather than any real concern for the victims. It doesn't alter the fact that there's much to criticise.

    That construction could of course be applied to Rotherham.
    Yesterday he was asking what is wrong with slavery after another poster quoted a survey where 20% of Trump suporters said they thought the abolition of slavery was bad.

    Sometimes I can smell the hypocrisy through the computer screen.
    I did rather hope that people would realise I was only teasing. I can confirm that I oppose slavery.
    nunu has no sense of humour :)
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,966
    edited September 2016

    New report out today by Centre for Cities shows that most UK cities are below the European average in terms of productivity. You can also see this in standard of living stats.

    In other words, outside London and it's hinterland the country is approx at East German or West Polish levels of development.

    We are in effect a below average country with a world city attached to it.

    Very obvious on this chart: image

    I fear Aberdeen would not be getting a green spot in 2016.
    Interesting. No doubt there is a UK productivity question. But answers are more difficult. David Smith in Sunday Times had a piece on this last week or week before. One issue, potentially, is our flexible labour laws make it easier to buy in people to do stuff than invest in machinery or spending time managing things more efficiently. Compare with France. Lots of unemployment, but higher capital investment in productivity type stuff. He says this is one issue, may only be a small one.
    I see that Reggio Calabria in lazy, crime-ridden, impoverished Southern Italy was more productive than all UK cities outside Londonia (& Aberdeen).
  • Options
    Corbyn's Labour 'unelectable and undesirable' - David Miliband

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37438120
  • Options
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Mr. Charles, an interesting suggestion.

    Also plays into trying to close down 'wrong speech' and having such stupid finickity terms that Benedict Cumberbatch, not renowned for being a raging right winger, apologised profusely after saying 'coloured person' rather than 'person of colour'.

    Mr. Jessop, jein. An issue with immigration/multi-culturalism is that sensitivity over it has led in the recent past to multiple claims [eventually proven correct] of sexual molestation of children simply not being investigated, and those against large scale migration being attacked as racist. So, right wingers being strident over such things have an understandable reaction to that. (Snip)

    Left-wingers reaction to things are equally understandable, e.g. to racism and homophobia.

    Some of the reaction to the awful cases in Rotherham, Oxford et al has been racist, especially when people extend what happened to broad groups. Not all of it, of course, but there has been a heavy undercurrent of racism. Oddly, we do not see such reactions when it is the churches, or white people performing abuses. Or even when it is Muslim girls being abused - it is only the white girls that matter (tm).
    I could be wrong, but as far as I can tell, the Roman Catholic Church has received a huge amount of criticism over child abuse.

    What took place in Rotherham seems to me to be one of the worst scandals in local government/child protection that I can recall.
    Absolutely. The situation was totally hushed up/underreported for years - only peoeple like the BNP would touch it. Set against that, Catholic (any Christian actually) abuses have been splashed across the media, and widely, not to say gleefully, reported and dramatised/fictionalised in books, television, film etc. JJ's description is a rather shocking inversion of the truth.
    Some people are doubtless motivated by hatred of Catholics to criticise the Church over child abuse, rather than any real concern for the victims. It doesn't alter the fact that there's much to criticise.
    Some people are. But I think they're possibly very few. More people will say any criticism of Catholicism, however deserved, is 'hatred of Catholics' to deflect criticism.

    It's all rather familiar, isn't it? Exactly the same behaviour that Muslims are accused of: "Oh, you're only saying that because you hate Muslims."

    I always try to make it clear that it's not just a Catholic thing: the CofE has also had significant problems of the same sort. And I bet it happens anywhere where religious authorities can take precedence over state ones. For one thing, you immediately get two lines by which to report abuse, two 'authorities'.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    :smiley:

    Simon Ricketts
    When you think you’re being helpful. A story in three tweets. https://t.co/UtFiPPgV9V
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    New report out today by Centre for Cities shows that most UK cities are below the European average in terms of productivity. You can also see this in standard of living stats.

    In other words, outside London and it's hinterland the country is approx at East German or West Polish levels of development.

    We are in effect a below average country with a world city attached to it.

    Very obvious on this chart: image

    I fear Aberdeen would not be getting a green spot in 2016.
    I see that most of the Mediterranean Eurozone is more productive than English Leaverstan. Some basket case.

    It may well be as simple as they have people unemployed, we have idle employees, or at least underworking employees
  • Options
    MaxPB said:

    New report out today by Centre for Cities shows that most UK cities are below the European average in terms of productivity. You can also see this in standard of living stats.

    In other words, outside London and it's hinterland the country is approx at East German or West Polish levels of development.

    We are in effect a below average country with a world city attached to it.

    Very obvious on this chart: image

    You're going to get @rcs1000 very upset about measuring productivity in a minute or so!
    I'd love to hear his view. In my opinion, stagnation outside of London is THE challenge facing the country.

    I know there's an argument that firms are hoarding labour and thus less efficient than in say France, but I don't think that explains why both productivity and standard of living gaps are so massive.

    And it's not just as simple as saying the rest of the country are ex-industrial and still modernising - the same is true for vast swathes of Europe who are doing much better than we have.

    By some measures, our regional divide is the worst in the OECD, and of a pattern typically seen in developing countries like Brazil.
  • Options
    Animal_pb said:

    There's stiff competition for the greatest political miscalculation of this century (UK division)
    1. Cameron's decision to hold a referendum on Brexit.
    2. A few Labour MPs decision to lend their support to Jeremy Corbyn so that a no hoper left winger could be in the leadership election.
    1. Leads to the demise of his political career.
    2. Leads to the demise of a party. This is a bigger miscalculation, because Brexit is good.
    Unless of course Brexit turns out to be bad, we'll have to wait until it happens. In that case the demise of a country is of course far worse than the demise of a party.

    However that wasn't the question, imagine that you are David Cameron about to decide on whether to hold a referendum, now imagine that you're Margaret Beckett wondering whether to nominate Jeremy Corbyn for the Labour Leadership. Which is the biggest miscalculation from Cameron or Beckett's perspective? Both are huge miscalculations.
    Although I suppose it's worth noting that Mrs Beckett's miscalculation can be said to have contributed both to the impending demise of the Party *and* the unexpected referendum result, given the role JC played in the referendum campaign. I think that tips it in her direction, frankly.
    Yes, that's a good point. Although she was just one of the MPs nominating him, so the blame will have to be shared.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,847

    Interesting read....

    Jon Lansman is the head of Momentum, the movement trying to chase every moderate out of the Labour party

    http://life.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/letting-the-hard-left-off-the-leash/

    Fantastic for those of us happy with a Conservative government.

    The deselections are coming, surely Corbyn and his acolytes will at best abstain from the boundary review - it's their opportunity of a lifetime to kill off the evil Blairite Tories infesting their socialist Utopia?
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704
    edited September 2016

    Corbyn's Labour 'unelectable and undesirable' - David Miliband

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37438120

    He does realise the polls have closed right?

    I'm starting to have sympathy with those defending Corbym, If he wins, he has a mandate. Those nu-labour blairites have had their chance to get rid of him, and they've failed.

    They should really now politely shut up until after the next election, or leave.
  • Options

    New report out today by Centre for Cities shows that most UK cities are below the European average in terms of productivity. You can also see this in standard of living stats.

    In other words, outside London and it's hinterland the country is approx at East German or West Polish levels of development.

    We are in effect a below average country with a world city attached to it.

    Very obvious on this chart: image

    I fear Aberdeen would not be getting a green spot in 2016.
    Interesting. No doubt there is a UK productivity question. But answers are more difficult. David Smith in Sunday Times had a piece on this last week or week before. One issue, potentially, is our flexible labour laws make it easier to buy in people to do stuff than invest in machinery or spending time managing things more efficiently. Compare with France. Lots of unemployment, but higher capital investment in productivity type stuff. He says this is one issue, may only be a small one.
    I see that Reggio Calabria in lazy, crime-ridden, impoverished Southern Italy was more productive than all UK cities outside Londonia (& Aberdeen).
    It really is a corrective to the boosterish rubbish you get in the media, which focuses largely on gross figures only and who live in a London metro bubble where of course things have never been better.
  • Options


    Uniondivvie is racist against hairy people!

    I'm relatively hairy myself, but short people, yeah, round 'em up.

    https://youtu.be/8bfyS-S-IJs
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799

    New report out today by Centre for Cities shows that most UK cities are below the European average in terms of productivity. You can also see this in standard of living stats.

    In other words, outside London and it's hinterland the country is approx at East German or West Polish levels of development.

    We are in effect a below average country with a world city attached to it.

    Very obvious on this chart: image

    I fear Aberdeen would not be getting a green spot in 2016.
    I see that most of the Mediterranean Eurozone is more productive than English Leaverstan. Some basket case.

    It may well be as simple as they have people unemployed, we have idle employees, or at least underworking employees
    In part, it's the batting average effect. We have a much higher proportion of the adult population in work than Southern Mediterranean countries do. The least productive workers find it much easier to find employment in the UK than their counterparts do in the Southern Mediterranean.

  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited September 2016

    Corbyn's Labour 'unelectable and undesirable' - David Miliband

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37438120

    He does realise the polls have closed right?

    I'm starting to have sympathy with those defending Corbym, If he wins, he has a mandate. Those nu-labour blairites have had their chance to get rid of him, and they've failed.

    They should really now politely shut up until after the next election, or leave.
    He was probably too busy on Tracy Island to realise that he should have made these comments earlier.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    New report out today by Centre for Cities shows that most UK cities are below the European average in terms of productivity. You can also see this in standard of living stats.

    In other words, outside London and it's hinterland the country is approx at East German or West Polish levels of development.

    We are in effect a below average country with a world city attached to it.

    Very obvious on this chart: image

    I think it's more likely the figures for other countries are unreliable.
  • Options
    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820

    MaxPB said:

    New report out today by Centre for Cities shows that most UK cities are below the European average in terms of productivity. You can also see this in standard of living stats.

    In other words, outside London and it's hinterland the country is approx at East German or West Polish levels of development.

    We are in effect a below average country with a world city attached to it.

    Very obvious on this chart: image

    You're going to get @rcs1000 very upset about measuring productivity in a minute or so!
    I'd love to hear his view. In my opinion, stagnation outside of London is THE challenge facing the country.

    I know there's an argument that firms are hoarding labour and thus less efficient than in say France, but I don't think that explains why both productivity and standard of living gaps are so massive.

    And it's not just as simple as saying the rest of the country are ex-industrial and still modernising - the same is true for vast swathes of Europe who are doing much better than we have.

    By some measures, our regional divide is the worst in the OECD, and of a pattern typically seen in developing countries like Brazil.
    Not sure whether the data is Productivity per or productivity per or productivity per . If, for instance, in the UK there are large numbers of female part-time workers, whereas on the Continent they are more likely to stay at home then our productivity per is going to fall. There are many scenarios that can be used to explain the statistics. One assumes that data isn't available from some Eastern Europe countries as otherwise we might have a lib-dem graph with selection to prove a point. (Lower Eastern Country productivity if it exists, would reduce the average and thus push more cities into the Green.)
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited September 2016
    AndyJS said:

    New report out today by Centre for Cities shows that most UK cities are below the European average in terms of productivity. You can also see this in standard of living stats.

    In other words, outside London and it's hinterland the country is approx at East German or West Polish levels of development.

    We are in effect a below average country with a world city attached to it.

    Very obvious on this chart: image

    I think it's more likely the figures for other countries are unreliable.
    Also, Centre for Cities not got a great rep...
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799

    New report out today by Centre for Cities shows that most UK cities are below the European average in terms of productivity. You can also see this in standard of living stats.

    In other words, outside London and it's hinterland the country is approx at East German or West Polish levels of development.

    We are in effect a below average country with a world city attached to it.

    Very obvious on this chart: image

    I fear Aberdeen would not be getting a green spot in 2016.
    Interesting. No doubt there is a UK productivity question. But answers are more difficult. David Smith in Sunday Times had a piece on this last week or week before. One issue, potentially, is our flexible labour laws make it easier to buy in people to do stuff than invest in machinery or spending time managing things more efficiently. Compare with France. Lots of unemployment, but higher capital investment in productivity type stuff. He says this is one issue, may only be a small one.
    I see that Reggio Calabria in lazy, crime-ridden, impoverished Southern Italy was more productive than all UK cities outside Londonia (& Aberdeen).
    It really is a corrective to the boosterish rubbish you get in the media, which focuses largely on gross figures only and who live in a London metro bubble where of course things have never been better.

    New

    We are in effect a below average country with a world city attached to it.

    Very obvious on this chart: image

    I fear Aberdeen would not be getting a green spot in 2016.
    .
    I see that Reggio Calabria in lazy, crime-ridden, impoverished Southern Italy was more productive than all UK cities outside Londonia (& Aberdeen).
    It really is a corrective to the boosterish rubbish you get in the media, which focuses largely on gross figures only and who live in a London metro bubble where of course things have never been better.
    But, anyone who's familiar with Southern Italy would know that the standard of living there is way below the standard of living in the UK outwith the South East.
  • Options

    New report out today by Centre for Cities shows that most UK cities are below the European average in terms of productivity. You can also see this in standard of living stats.

    In other words, outside London and it's hinterland the country is approx at East German or West Polish levels of development.

    We are in effect a below average country with a world city attached to it.

    Very obvious on this chart: image

    I fear Aberdeen would not be getting a green spot in 2016.
    Interesting. No doubt there is a UK productivity question. But answers are more difficult. David Smith in Sunday Times had a piece on this last week or week before. One issue, potentially, is our flexible labour laws make it easier to buy in people to do stuff than invest in machinery or spending time managing things more efficiently. Compare with France. Lots of unemployment, but higher capital investment in productivity type stuff. He says this is one issue, may only be a small one.
    I see that Reggio Calabria in lazy, crime-ridden, impoverished Southern Italy was more productive than all UK cities outside Londonia (& Aberdeen).
    Pinch of salt?
  • Options
    Sean_F said:

    New report out today by Centre for Cities shows that most UK cities are below the European average in terms of productivity. You can also see this in standard of living stats.

    In other words, outside London and it's hinterland the country is approx at East German or West Polish levels of development.

    We are in effect a below average country with a world city attached to it.

    Very obvious on this chart: image

    I fear Aberdeen would not be getting a green spot in 2016.
    I see that most of the Mediterranean Eurozone is more productive than English Leaverstan. Some basket case.

    It may well be as simple as they have people unemployed, we have idle employees, or at least underworking employees
    In part, it's the batting average effect. We have a much higher proportion of the adult population in work than Southern Mediterranean countries do. The least productive workers find it much easier to find employment in the UK than their counterparts do in the Southern Mediterranean.

    It's not just this because standard of living also reflects patterns *and* we have higher than average income inequality.

    In other words, the average person in say Newcastle has the approx same standard of living (income by PPP) as someone in Reggio Calabria; and if you are in the poorer 40% you are are even worse off than your Italian peers.
  • Options
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Mr. Charles, an interesting suggestion.

    Also plays into trying to close down 'wrong speech' and having such stupid finickity terms that Benedict Cumberbatch, not renowned for being a raging right winger, apologised profusely after saying 'coloured person' rather than 'person of colour'.

    Mr. Jessop, jein. An issue with immigration/multi-culturalism is that sensitivity over it has led in the recent past to multiple claims [eventually proven correct] of sexual molestation of children simply not being investigated, and those against large scale migration being attacked as racist. So, right wingers being strident over such things have an understandable reaction to that. (Snip)

    Left-wingers reaction to things are equally understandable, e.g. to racism and homophobia.

    Some of the reaction to the awful cases in Rotherham, Oxford et al has been racist, especially when people extend what happened to broad groups. Not all of it, of course, but there has been a heavy undercurrent of racism. Oddly, we do not see such reactions when it is the churches, or white people performing abuses. Or even when it is Muslim girls being abused - it is only the white girls that matter (tm).
    I could be wrong, but as far as I can tell, the Roman Catholic Church has received a huge amount of criticism over child abuse.

    What took place in Rotherham seems to me to be one of the worst scandals in local government/child protection that I can recall.
    Absolutely. The situation was totally hushed up/underreported for years - only peoeple like the BNP would touch it. Set against that, Catholic (any Christian actually) abuses have been splashed across the media, and widely, not to say gleefully, reported and dramatised/fictionalised in books, television, film etc. JJ's description is a rather shocking inversion of the truth.
    Some people are doubtless motivated by hatred of Catholics to criticise the Church over child abuse, rather than any real concern for the victims. It doesn't alter the fact that there's much to criticise.

    The Roman Catholic church is not responsible for the original crimes but is responsible for covering up the crimes in a systemic way.

    Judge the values of an organisation by what it does, not by what it says.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    On the child abuse scandals, there are two different issues involved. It is extremely important to understand the motivations behind the abuse in order for the victims to get justice and to prevent such criminality from occuring again.

    The first is abuse within the church, the paradigm within this is an age old abuse of a privileged situation. On the one side there are priests who are seen as above the law, able to act with impunity and on the other we have young children, usually vulnerable who have been left in their care. It is an abuse of their power and position that disgusts us, we see it in many walks of life as well, teachers and students, psychiatric doctors and patients even politicians and junior staffers. They are abusing their position of power over the people who are supposedly in their care. We can and do have screening processes and laws to ensure that vulnerable people/children are not abused in this situation. The church should find the perpetrators of these crimes and hand them over to the police, that they have previously obstructed investigations and covered up abuse means the leadership is not fit for purpose and should be replaced by government edict or taken over if they refuse. Solving these crimes is not simple, but we do have methods available to do so, many of them are already in place in schools and in the medical sector.

    Cont...
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    ...

    The second case is the abuse in Rotherham or other cities which have suffered. In these cases children who were usually white, in care or had inattentive parents were abused on an industrial scale by local men, usually of Pakistani or Afghanistani background. In order to understand this crime we must look at the motivations of these men, it is different to that of the church where priests were using positions of authority to abuse children and cover up their crimes. The motivation is intrinsically linked to the values system many Muslims adhere to, it places a lesser value on women and non-Muslims. These men, in their own eyes, were not committing criminal acts, instead they were doing nothing more than partaking in recreational activities. That to me is absolutely disgusting, the lower value attached to certain kinds of people has twisted their brains into thinking this is acceptable, and it would be in certain parts of the nations from which they or their families originate. The fact that the local authorities did nothing to stop the criminals and in some cases helped cover up the crimes is something that needs tackling, with immediate effect. These men were able to act with impunity because the authorities (social services, police, local politicians) turned a blind eye to their criminality, anyone who did so should spend as much time in prison as the perpetrators.

    Two examples of mass abuse with two different motivations. I would say the first example is easier to solve and police as we have systems in place in other walks of life to discover and deal with similar cases. The latter will requires careful thinking and far, far better education of young Muslim boys/men so that they do not place a lesser value on women/girls and non-Muslims. Intervention at a very early stage is necessary or we won't be able to eliminate this kind of crime and anything we do will be reactive.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    If you support Hillary, look away now

    "When American settlers sent scouts to ride ahead and look for Indians, if the scouts returned saying there were 6,000 Sioux on the other side of the ridge, no one cared about their horsemanship or the language they used.

    Trump is the only politician in 50 years to say, “Immigration security is national security.” The media won’t listen. But the voters are listening.

    Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/21/coulter-trump-busts-muslim-protection-racket/#ixzz4KyxvfYCv
  • Options
    Sandpit said:

    Interesting read....

    Jon Lansman is the head of Momentum, the movement trying to chase every moderate out of the Labour party

    http://life.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/letting-the-hard-left-off-the-leash/

    Fantastic for those of us happy with a Conservative government.

    The deselections are coming, surely Corbyn and his acolytes will at best abstain from the boundary review - it's their opportunity of a lifetime to kill off the evil Blairite Tories infesting their socialist Utopia?
    I only read the first few paragraphs of the article before the stench of hypocrisy made me feel ill and I gave up. Pure marxism + fine wine collections, property companies, weird arrangements with companies etc etc.

    Perhaps the contradictions within the ultra hard left will be what brings it all crashing down in the end. Once the comrades realise that not all the animals are equal, there'll be trouble...
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    619 said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Well that's unlikely to convince many

    Hillary Clinton's campaign is telling reporters it is concerned debate moderators will go easy on GOP nominee Donald Trump, and her team is crafting a narrative portraying the Democratic nominee as fighting an uphill battle against media.

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/article/2602461/

    Seems like the usual pre-debate lowering of expectations. I imagine Trump will say something along the same lines of how the media is out to get him.
    He claimed the debates were a conspiracy against him because all the moderators are Democrats.

    The first debate moderator is a registered Republican.
  • Options
    Button batteries pose 'deadly' risk to toddlers

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-37410343

    The report says 10 years ago it hardly ever happened, but in recent years it has become more common.

    Am I being really dumb here, are "watch batteries" more common than ever? I think pretty much all my devices have internal rechargeable batteries (or AAA for tv remote). I can only think of a watch battery in a set of scales.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    PlatoSaid said:

    If you support Hillary, look away now

    "When American settlers sent scouts to ride ahead and look for Indians, if the scouts returned saying there were 6,000 Sioux on the other side of the ridge, no one cared about their horsemanship or the language they used.

    Trump is the only politician in 50 years to say, “Immigration security is national security.” The media won’t listen. But the voters are listening.

    Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/21/coulter-trump-busts-muslim-protection-racket/#ixzz4KyxvfYCv

    "The only good Muslim is a dead Muslim"?

    I am not sure the genocide of the Native Americans is the right model for the modern world.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited September 2016

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting read....

    Jon Lansman is the head of Momentum, the movement trying to chase every moderate out of the Labour party

    http://life.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/letting-the-hard-left-off-the-leash/

    Fantastic for those of us happy with a Conservative government.

    The deselections are coming, surely Corbyn and his acolytes will at best abstain from the boundary review - it's their opportunity of a lifetime to kill off the evil Blairite Tories infesting their socialist Utopia?
    I only read the first few paragraphs of the article before the stench of hypocrisy made me feel ill and I gave up. Pure marxism + fine wine collections, property companies, weird arrangements with companies etc etc.

    Perhaps the contradictions within the ultra hard left will be what brings it all crashing down in the end. Once the comrades realise that not all the animals are equal, there'll be trouble...
    I wonder what all these doe-eyed youngster think of the fact their leader is a massive hypocrite?

    One of the things that got a brief mention in the Dispatches programme was the breach of data protection. Maomentum were making sure they had all the companies set up properly in order to data harvest. Wonder if they will go down the Wusselly Brand line of using it to flog stuff?
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,847

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Mr. Charles, an interesting suggestion.

    Also plays into trying to close down 'wrong speech' and having such stupid finickity terms that Benedict Cumberbatch, not renowned for being a raging right winger, apologised profusely after saying 'coloured person' rather than 'person of colour'.

    Mr. Jessop, jein. An issue with immigration/multi-culturalism is that sensitivity over it has led in the recent past to multiple claims [eventually proven correct] of sexual molestation of children simply not being investigated, and those against large scale migration being attacked as racist. So, right wingers being strident over such things have an understandable reaction to that. (Snip)

    Left-wingers reaction to things are equally understandable, e.g. to racism and homophobia.

    Some of the reaction to the awful cases in Rotherham, Oxford et al has been racist, especially when people extend what happened to broad groups. Not all of it, of course, but there has been a heavy undercurrent of racism. Oddly, we do not see such reactions when it is the churches, or white people performing abuses. Or even when it is Muslim girls being abused - it is only the white girls that matter (tm).
    I could be wrong, but as far as I can tell, the Roman Catholic Church has received a huge amount of criticism over child abuse.

    What took place in Rotherham seems to me to be one of the worst scandals in local government/child protection that I can recall.
    Absolutely. The situation was totally hushed up/underreported for years - only peoeple like the BNP would touch it. Set against that, Catholic (any Christian actually) abuses have been splashed across the media, and widely, not to say gleefully, reported and dramatised/fictionalised in books, television, film etc. JJ's description is a rather shocking inversion of the truth.
    Some people are doubtless motivated by hatred of Catholics to criticise the Church over child abuse, rather than any real concern for the victims. It doesn't alter the fact that there's much to criticise.

    The Roman Catholic church is not responsible for the original crimes but is responsible for covering up the crimes in a systemic way.

    Judge the values of an organisation by what it does, not by what it says.
    Absolutely. I'm a Catholic myself, and had to explain to many fellow followers that comedian Tim Minchin's 'Pope Song' was fair play, despite the foul language (no, I'm not posting a link to it, very NSFW!) and the high level coverup was more of an institutional issue than the abuse itself. To paraphrase, those who cover for abuse are as evil as the abusers themselves.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187

    Button batteries pose 'deadly' risk to toddlers

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-37410343

    The report says 10 years ago it hardly ever happened, but in recent years it has become more common.

    Am I being really dumb here, are "watch batteries" more common than ever? I think pretty much all my devices have internal rechargeable batteries (or AAA for tv remote). I can only think of a watch battery in a set of scales.

    One of my cycle lights has those batteries and my I replaced the ones in my dad's car key fob the other day. I guess if there are more devices with them then there's a greater risk that somebody will leave them lying around the house. But if you've got a toddler you really should know not to leave anything like that lying around!
  • Options
    Sean_F said:

    New report out today by Centre for Cities shows that most UK cities are below the European average in terms of productivity. You can also see this in standard of living stats.

    In other words, outside London and it's hinterland the country is approx at East German or West Polish levels of development.

    We are in effect a below average country with a world city attached to it.

    Very obvious on this chart: image

    I fear Aberdeen would not be getting a green spot in 2016.
    I see that most of the Mediterranean Eurozone is more productive than English Leaverstan. Some basket case.

    It may well be as simple as they have people unemployed, we have idle employees, or at least underworking employees
    In part, it's the batting average effect. We have a much higher proportion of the adult population in work than Southern Mediterranean countries do. The least productive workers find it much easier to find employment in the UK than their counterparts do in the Southern Mediterranean.

    Robert is often scathing of productivity figures.
  • Options
    Sean_F said:

    New report out today by Centre for Cities shows that most UK cities are below the European average in terms of productivity. You can also see this in standard of living stats.

    In other words, outside London and it's hinterland the country is approx at East German or West Polish levels of development.

    We are in effect a below average country with a world city attached to it.

    Very obvious on this chart: image

    I fear Aberdeen would not be getting a green spot in 2016.
    Interesting. No doubt there is a UK productivity question. But answers are more difficult. David Smith in Sunday Times had a piece on this last week or week before. One issue, potentially, is our flexible labour laws make it easier to buy in people to do stuff than invest in machinery or spending time managing things more efficiently. Compare with France. Lots of unemployment, but higher capital investment in productivity type stuff. He says this is one issue, may only be a small one.
    I see that Reggio Calabria in lazy, crime-ridden, impoverished Southern Italy was more productive than all UK cities outside Londonia (& Aberdeen).
    It really is a corrective to the boosterish rubbish you get in the media, which focuses largely on gross figures only and who live in a London metro bubble where of course things have never been better.

    New

    We are in effect a below average country with a world city attached to it.

    Very obvious on this chart: image

    I fear Aberdeen would not be getting a green spot in 2016.
    .
    I see that Reggio Calabria in lazy, crime-ridden, impoverished Southern Italy was more productive than all UK cities outside Londonia (& Aberdeen).
    It really is a corrective to the boosterish rubbish you get in the media, which focuses largely on gross figures only and who live in a London metro bubble where of course things have never been better.
    But, anyone who's familiar with Southern Italy would know that the standard of living there is way below the standard of living in the UK outwith the South East.
    Because they're all bloody left footers.
  • Options

    Button batteries pose 'deadly' risk to toddlers

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-37410343

    The report says 10 years ago it hardly ever happened, but in recent years it has become more common.

    Am I being really dumb here, are "watch batteries" more common than ever? I think pretty much all my devices have internal rechargeable batteries (or AAA for tv remote). I can only think of a watch battery in a set of scales.

    Car fobs..
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,847
    edited September 2016

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting read....

    Jon Lansman is the head of Momentum, the movement trying to chase every moderate out of the Labour party

    http://life.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/letting-the-hard-left-off-the-leash/

    Fantastic for those of us happy with a Conservative government.

    The deselections are coming, surely Corbyn and his acolytes will at best abstain from the boundary review - it's their opportunity of a lifetime to kill off the evil Blairite Tories infesting their socialist Utopia?
    I only read the first few paragraphs of the article before the stench of hypocrisy made me feel ill and I gave up. Pure marxism + fine wine collections, property companies, weird arrangements with companies etc etc.

    Perhaps the contradictions within the ultra hard left will be what brings it all crashing down in the end. Once the comrades realise that not all the animals are equal, there'll be trouble...
    Yes, but one almost expects a Spectator profile of a Marxist to start with how he's personally completely insulated from the solutions he proposes for everyone else!
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited September 2016

    Button batteries pose 'deadly' risk to toddlers

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-37410343

    The report says 10 years ago it hardly ever happened, but in recent years it has become more common.

    Am I being really dumb here, are "watch batteries" more common than ever? I think pretty much all my devices have internal rechargeable batteries (or AAA for tv remote). I can only think of a watch battery in a set of scales.

    Car fobs..
    Good point on car fobs...but most people only have one car each and you hardly ever have to replace it...and lots of watches don't have batteries anymore (mine doesn't).

    So I just wonder where this increase is coming from (if it really is, or just a fact of remembering / better reporting).
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    That productivity chart is slightly misleading as in 2011 the exchange rate was €1.10 which would artificially boost Eurozone productivity ratings, plus it is GVA rather than on a PPP basis.
  • Options
    tlg86 said:

    Button batteries pose 'deadly' risk to toddlers

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-37410343

    The report says 10 years ago it hardly ever happened, but in recent years it has become more common.

    Am I being really dumb here, are "watch batteries" more common than ever? I think pretty much all my devices have internal rechargeable batteries (or AAA for tv remote). I can only think of a watch battery in a set of scales.

    One of my cycle lights has those batteries and my I replaced the ones in my dad's car key fob the other day. I guess if there are more devices with them then there's a greater risk that somebody will leave them lying around the house. But if you've got a toddler you really should know not to leave anything like that lying around!
    I used to think that. Now I have my own toddler, I've realised that it's hard to toddler-proof everything.

    There's an old saying: once you've idiot-proofed something, they go along and invent a better form of idiot. The same seems to be true for toddlers - the moment you've toddler-proofed something, the toddler just gets better!
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187

    Button batteries pose 'deadly' risk to toddlers

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-37410343

    The report says 10 years ago it hardly ever happened, but in recent years it has become more common.

    Am I being really dumb here, are "watch batteries" more common than ever? I think pretty much all my devices have internal rechargeable batteries (or AAA for tv remote). I can only think of a watch battery in a set of scales.

    Car fobs..
    Good point on car fobs...but most people only have one car each and you hardly ever have to replace it...and lots of watches don't have batteries anymore (mine doesn't).

    So I just wonder where this increase is coming from (if it really is, or just a fact of remembering / better reporting).
    I have to replace the two in my bike light every three months. My dad reckons the car fob battery lasts 18 months.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,845
    edited September 2016

    Sean_F said:

    New report out today by Centre for Cities shows that most UK cities are below the European average in terms of productivity. You can also see this in standard of living stats.

    In other words, outside London and it's hinterland the country is approx at East German or West Polish levels of development.

    We are in effect a below average country with a world city attached to it.

    Very obvious on this chart: image

    I fear Aberdeen would not be getting a green spot in 2016.
    I see that most of the Mediterranean Eurozone is more productive than English Leaverstan. Some basket case.

    It may well be as simple as they have people unemployed, we have idle employees, or at least underworking employees
    In part, it's the batting average effect. We have a much higher proportion of the adult population in work than Southern Mediterranean countries do. The least productive workers find it much easier to find employment in the UK than their counterparts do in the Southern Mediterranean.

    Robert is often scathing of productivity figures.
    Regardless, it seems pretty clear that for a generation, and perhaps longer, our exchange rate has been too high and its immolated our medium-tech industrial base, notwithstanding the odd success like auto manufacturing which has depended above all on high flows of FDI.

    Simultaneously, we've utterly failed to invest in infrastructure outside of London under a general belief that the free market will sort it out, combined with the miserly dead hand of Treasury.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited September 2016
    tlg86 said:

    Button batteries pose 'deadly' risk to toddlers

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-37410343

    The report says 10 years ago it hardly ever happened, but in recent years it has become more common.

    Am I being really dumb here, are "watch batteries" more common than ever? I think pretty much all my devices have internal rechargeable batteries (or AAA for tv remote). I can only think of a watch battery in a set of scales.

    Car fobs..
    Good point on car fobs...but most people only have one car each and you hardly ever have to replace it...and lots of watches don't have batteries anymore (mine doesn't).

    So I just wonder where this increase is coming from (if it really is, or just a fact of remembering / better reporting).
    I have to replace the two in my bike light every three months. My dad reckons the car fob battery lasts 18 months.
    Crickey every 3 months, I bet that adds up in terms of cost.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187

    tlg86 said:

    Button batteries pose 'deadly' risk to toddlers

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-37410343

    The report says 10 years ago it hardly ever happened, but in recent years it has become more common.

    Am I being really dumb here, are "watch batteries" more common than ever? I think pretty much all my devices have internal rechargeable batteries (or AAA for tv remote). I can only think of a watch battery in a set of scales.

    Car fobs..
    Good point on car fobs...but most people only have one car each and you hardly ever have to replace it...and lots of watches don't have batteries anymore (mine doesn't).

    So I just wonder where this increase is coming from (if it really is, or just a fact of remembering / better reporting).
    I have to replace the two in my bike light every three months. My dad reckons the car fob battery lasts 18 months.
    Crickey every 3 months, I bet that adds up in terms of cost.
    I can get a dozen for £3 off Amazon.
  • Options
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Button batteries pose 'deadly' risk to toddlers

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-37410343

    The report says 10 years ago it hardly ever happened, but in recent years it has become more common.

    Am I being really dumb here, are "watch batteries" more common than ever? I think pretty much all my devices have internal rechargeable batteries (or AAA for tv remote). I can only think of a watch battery in a set of scales.

    Car fobs..
    Good point on car fobs...but most people only have one car each and you hardly ever have to replace it...and lots of watches don't have batteries anymore (mine doesn't).

    So I just wonder where this increase is coming from (if it really is, or just a fact of remembering / better reporting).
    I have to replace the two in my bike light every three months. My dad reckons the car fob battery lasts 18 months.
    Crickey every 3 months, I bet that adds up in terms of cost.
    I can get a dozen for £3 off Amazon.
    Hopefully not from the same people who make the batteries for the Samsung phones...
  • Options

    There's stiff competition for the greatest political miscalculation of this century (UK division)
    1. Cameron's decision to hold a referendum on Brexit.
    2. A few Labour MPs decision to lend their support to Jeremy Corbyn so that a no hoper left winger could be in the leadership election.
    1. Leads to the demise of his political career.
    2. Leads to the demise of a party. This is a bigger miscalculation, because Brexit is good.
    Unless of course Brexit turns out to be bad, we'll have to wait until it happens. In that case the demise of a country is of course far worse than the demise of a party.

    However that wasn't the question, imagine that you are David Cameron about to decide on whether to hold a referendum, now imagine that you're Margaret Beckett wondering whether to nominate Jeremy Corbyn for the Labour Leadership. Which is the biggest miscalculation from Cameron or Beckett's perspective? Both are huge miscalculations.
    Beckett (and the other miscreants) miscalculation will almost certainly lead to the collapse of the Labour party for 10 years as a viable party of Govt.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187

    tlg86 said:

    Button batteries pose 'deadly' risk to toddlers

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-37410343

    The report says 10 years ago it hardly ever happened, but in recent years it has become more common.

    Am I being really dumb here, are "watch batteries" more common than ever? I think pretty much all my devices have internal rechargeable batteries (or AAA for tv remote). I can only think of a watch battery in a set of scales.

    One of my cycle lights has those batteries and my I replaced the ones in my dad's car key fob the other day. I guess if there are more devices with them then there's a greater risk that somebody will leave them lying around the house. But if you've got a toddler you really should know not to leave anything like that lying around!
    I used to think that. Now I have my own toddler, I've realised that it's hard to toddler-proof everything.

    There's an old saying: once you've idiot-proofed something, they go along and invent a better form of idiot. The same seems to be true for toddlers - the moment you've toddler-proofed something, the toddler just gets better!
    Fair point, I don't have any of my own so wouldn't criticize. But there really is no excuse for disposing of a battery the moment it's not being used. I wonder if there are some toys with these things that can be accessed by the child?
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,847

    tlg86 said:

    Button batteries pose 'deadly' risk to toddlers

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-37410343

    The report says 10 years ago it hardly ever happened, but in recent years it has become more common.

    Am I being really dumb here, are "watch batteries" more common than ever? I think pretty much all my devices have internal rechargeable batteries (or AAA for tv remote). I can only think of a watch battery in a set of scales.

    One of my cycle lights has those batteries and my I replaced the ones in my dad's car key fob the other day. I guess if there are more devices with them then there's a greater risk that somebody will leave them lying around the house. But if you've got a toddler you really should know not to leave anything like that lying around!
    I used to think that. Now I have my own toddler, I've realised that it's hard to toddler-proof everything.

    There's an old saying: once you've idiot-proofed something, they go along and invent a better form of idiot. The same seems to be true for toddlers - the moment you've toddler-proofed something, the toddler just gets better!
    Ha true. And when you've secured everything at one level, they grow taller and see the next set of challenges!
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799

    Sean_F said:

    New report out today by Centre for Cities shows that most UK cities are below the European average in terms of productivity. You can also see this in standard of living stats.

    In other words, outside London and it's hinterland the country is approx at East German or West Polish levels of development.

    We are in effect a below average country with a world city attached to it.

    Very obvious on this chart: image

    I fear Aberdeen would not be getting a green spot in 2016.
    I see that most of the Mediterranean Eurozone is more productive than English Leaverstan. Some basket case.

    It may well be as simple as they have people unemployed, we have idle employees, or at least underworking employees
    In part, it's the batting average effect. We have a much higher proportion of the adult population in work than Southern Mediterranean countries do. The least productive workers find it much easier to find employment in the UK than their counterparts do in the Southern Mediterranean.

    Robert is often scathing of productivity figures.
    Productivity is not meaningless but you can make productivity per worker look very good by employing fewer workers.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Depressing analysis from Cathy Newman:

    "Social media has been destroyed by online trolls and there's no way back
    CATHY NEWMAN"


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/politics/social-media-has-been-destroyed-by-online-trolls-and-theres-no-w/
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,847
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    New report out today by Centre for Cities shows that most UK cities are below the European average in terms of productivity. You can also see this in standard of living stats.

    In other words, outside London and it's hinterland the country is approx at East German or West Polish levels of development.

    We are in effect a below average country with a world city attached to it.

    Very obvious on this chart: image

    I fear Aberdeen would not be getting a green spot in 2016.
    I see that most of the Mediterranean Eurozone is more productive than English Leaverstan. Some basket case.

    It may well be as simple as they have people unemployed, we have idle employees, or at least underworking employees
    In part, it's the batting average effect. We have a much higher proportion of the adult population in work than Southern Mediterranean countries do. The least productive workers find it much easier to find employment in the UK than their counterparts do in the Southern Mediterranean.

    Robert is often scathing of productivity figures.
    Productivity is not meaningless but you can make productivity per worker look very good by employing fewer workers.
    As the French do. They ignore huge unemployment when calculating their productivity stats.
  • Options
    MaxPB said:

    ...

    The second case is the abuse in Rotherham or other cities which have suffered. In these cases children who were usually white, in care or had inattentive parents were abused on an industrial scale by local men, usually of Pakistani or Afghanistani background. In order to understand this crime we must look at the motivations of these men, it is different to that of the church where priests were using positions of authority to abuse children and cover up their crimes. The motivation is intrinsically linked to the values system many Muslims adhere to, it places a lesser value on women and non-Muslims. These men, in their own eyes, were not committing criminal acts, instead they were doing nothing more than partaking in recreational activities. That to me is absolutely disgusting, the lower value attached to certain kinds of people has twisted their brains into thinking this is acceptable, and it would be in certain parts of the nations from which they or their families originate. The fact that the local authorities did nothing to stop the criminals and in some cases helped cover up the crimes is something that needs tackling, with immediate effect. These men were able to act with impunity because the authorities (social services, police, local politicians) turned a blind eye to their criminality, anyone who did so should spend as much time in prison as the perpetrators.

    Two examples of mass abuse with two different motivations. I would say the first example is easier to solve and police as we have systems in place in other walks of life to discover and deal with similar cases. The latter will requires careful thinking and far, far better education of young Muslim boys/men so that they do not place a lesser value on women/girls and non-Muslims. Intervention at a very early stage is necessary or we won't be able to eliminate this kind of crime and anything we do will be reactive.

    A very thought-provoking piece, thanks.

    Although I think I disagree with the central thesis: the motivations are the same: it's a devaluation of the victim, making them lower, the 'other'. It's hard to abuse someone if you value them.

    It's why large-scale abuse occurs in all sorts of societies, for all sorts of reasons. Often, it's also why the authorities turn a blind eye - it certainly contributed in Rotherham. "These girls are trouble, and they've just got themeselves in more trouble. What do you expect?"

    Blaming the victim.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited September 2016
    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Button batteries pose 'deadly' risk to toddlers

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-37410343

    The report says 10 years ago it hardly ever happened, but in recent years it has become more common.

    Am I being really dumb here, are "watch batteries" more common than ever? I think pretty much all my devices have internal rechargeable batteries (or AAA for tv remote). I can only think of a watch battery in a set of scales.

    One of my cycle lights has those batteries and my I replaced the ones in my dad's car key fob the other day. I guess if there are more devices with them then there's a greater risk that somebody will leave them lying around the house. But if you've got a toddler you really should know not to leave anything like that lying around!
    I used to think that. Now I have my own toddler, I've realised that it's hard to toddler-proof everything.

    There's an old saying: once you've idiot-proofed something, they go along and invent a better form of idiot. The same seems to be true for toddlers - the moment you've toddler-proofed something, the toddler just gets better!
    Ha true. And when you've secured everything at one level, they grow taller and see the next set of challenges!
    Then they grow even taller and start drinking and become more of a hazard...
  • Options

    tlg86 said:

    Button batteries pose 'deadly' risk to toddlers

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-37410343

    The report says 10 years ago it hardly ever happened, but in recent years it has become more common.

    Am I being really dumb here, are "watch batteries" more common than ever? I think pretty much all my devices have internal rechargeable batteries (or AAA for tv remote). I can only think of a watch battery in a set of scales.

    One of my cycle lights has those batteries and my I replaced the ones in my dad's car key fob the other day. I guess if there are more devices with them then there's a greater risk that somebody will leave them lying around the house. But if you've got a toddler you really should know not to leave anything like that lying around!
    I used to think that. Now I have my own toddler, I've realised that it's hard to toddler-proof everything. There's an old saying: once you've idiot-proofed something, they go along and invent a better form of idiot. The same seems to be true for toddlers - the moment you've toddler-proofed something, the toddler just gets better!
    20+ years ago when first child was a toddler, I toddler proofed cupboard doors and the video player. So the child under one looked at the stuck on plastic over the video, pulled it off and gave it to me. Later in the kitchen he thought pulling the cabinet door back and forwards was a great game and eventually he managed to breech the clip and open the cabinet fully. Somehow he has made it to 24 years old.
  • Options
    619619 Posts: 1,784
    PlatoSaid said:

    If you support Hillary, look away now

    "When American settlers sent scouts to ride ahead and look for Indians, if the scouts returned saying there were 6,000 Sioux on the other side of the ridge, no one cared about their horsemanship or the language they used.

    Trump is the only politician in 50 years to say, “Immigration security is national security.” The media won’t listen. But the voters are listening.

    Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/21/coulter-trump-busts-muslim-protection-racket/#ixzz4KyxvfYCv

    That WSJ poll had Clinton ahead 51-30 on who best to deal with immigration. So the basis of that article is wrong
  • Options
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Button batteries pose 'deadly' risk to toddlers

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-37410343

    The report says 10 years ago it hardly ever happened, but in recent years it has become more common.

    Am I being really dumb here, are "watch batteries" more common than ever? I think pretty much all my devices have internal rechargeable batteries (or AAA for tv remote). I can only think of a watch battery in a set of scales.

    One of my cycle lights has those batteries and my I replaced the ones in my dad's car key fob the other day. I guess if there are more devices with them then there's a greater risk that somebody will leave them lying around the house. But if you've got a toddler you really should know not to leave anything like that lying around!
    I used to think that. Now I have my own toddler, I've realised that it's hard to toddler-proof everything.

    There's an old saying: once you've idiot-proofed something, they go along and invent a better form of idiot. The same seems to be true for toddlers - the moment you've toddler-proofed something, the toddler just gets better!
    Fair point, I don't have any of my own so wouldn't criticize. But there really is no excuse for disposing of a battery the moment it's not being used. I wonder if there are some toys with these things that can be accessed by the child?
    We keep a couple of old margarine tubs on a high shelf , in which we keep loose coins and batteries (both buttons and AA/AAA). Every so often we take them to the bank / battery disposal point.

    Yet we had a minor choking incident when he swallowed a small piece of clear, solid plastic from a wrapping that had fallen on the floor. And yet I had vacuumed that day *after* we had opened the device.

    A lucky escape. Yet from talking to other parents, something that happens to many.

    I also caught him carrying open scissors the other day, which he had got off a hook in the kitchen. They now hang on a higher hook.

    Maybe I'm a bad parent, or maybe most people get away with these things though sheer luck.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited September 2016
    Eggheads murder story makes more sense now.

    He told a story in his autobiography (yes somebody really did commision one) of 20 years ago, where he was in Holland and claimed a homeless guy attacked him with a knife and he fought him off and threw him in the canal.
  • Options

    Sean_F said:

    New report out today by Centre for Cities shows that most UK cities are below the European average in terms of productivity. You can also see this in standard of living stats.

    In other words, outside London and it's hinterland the country is approx at East German or West Polish levels of development.

    We are in effect a below average country with a world city attached to it.

    Very obvious on this chart: image

    I fear Aberdeen would not be getting a green spot in 2016.
    I see that most of the Mediterranean Eurozone is more productive than English Leaverstan. Some basket case.

    It may well be as simple as they have people unemployed, we have idle employees, or at least underworking employees
    In part, it's the batting average effect. We have a much higher proportion of the adult population in work than Southern Mediterranean countries do. The least productive workers find it much easier to find employment in the UK than their counterparts do in the Southern Mediterranean.

    Robert is often scathing of productivity figures.
    Regardless, it seems pretty clear that for a generation, and perhaps longer, our exchange rate has been too high and its immolated our medium-tech industrial base, notwithstanding the odd success like auto manufacturing which has depended above all on high flows of FDI.

    Simultaneously, we've utterly failed to invest in infrastructure outside of London under a general belief that the free market will sort it out, combined with the miserly dead hand of Treasury.
    I cant see that Brexit vote on its own justifies the recent exchange rate fall. It may be that it has done us a favour in provoking a long overdue realignment.

    There may be issues with reliability but part of the problem would seem to be that poorer areas in the EU like southern spain etc. are only able to create the higher paid jobs and have much higher unemployment, whereas we - outside the constraints imposed by Euro Membership have been able to keep less skilled workers employed at wages commensurate with their abilities.

    Ie those yellow dots are actually a sucess story.
  • Options

    Eggheads murder story makes more sense now.

    He told a story in his autobiography (yes somebody really did commision one) of 20 years ago, where he was in Holland and claimed a homeless guy attacked him with a knife and he fought him off and threw him in the canal.

    It’s amazing what some people will confess to in their autobiography.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    A very thought-provoking piece, thanks.

    Although I think I disagree with the central thesis: the motivations are the same: it's a devaluation of the victim, making them lower, the 'other'. It's hard to abuse someone if you value them.

    It's why large-scale abuse occurs in all sorts of societies, for all sorts of reasons. Often, it's also why the authorities turn a blind eye - it certainly contributed in Rotherham. "These girls are trouble, and they've just got themeselves in more trouble. What do you expect?"

    Blaming the victim.

    No worries, the issue at hand is the motivation for devaluation of their victims. I'd venture that they are uniform in the latter scenario such as Rotherham, but vary within the first one in the church, though based on similar themes such as victims being deserving of abuse or not seeing it as abuse, but a twisted form of affection.

    Agreed on the reaction of the authorities, Professor Jay wrote about that extensively in her report. I was extremely impressed by her, where I expected a white wash, we received a hard hitting report that got to the core of the failures.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943
    edited September 2016
    Alistair said:
    She leads both states with RCP and in all the Kerry 2004 states, Trump leads in all the other Bush 2004 states (albeit Florida is tied). If Trump wins Florida Hillary wins 273 to 265, the closest EC margin since 2000
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    Eggheads murder story makes more sense now.

    He told a story in his autobiography (yes somebody really did commision one) of 20 years ago, where he was in Holland and claimed a homeless guy attacked him with a knife and he fought him off and threw him in the canal.

    Talk about incriminating oneself, though finding evidence is going to be pretty tough.
  • Options

    Eggheads murder story makes more sense now.

    He told a story in his autobiography (yes somebody really did commision one) of 20 years ago, where he was in Holland and claimed a homeless guy attacked him with a knife and he fought him off and threw him in the canal.

    It’s amazing what some people will confess to in their autobiography.
    You would have thought the publisher would have thought, hmmm might be best if we drop that bit....
  • Options
    619619 Posts: 1,784
    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:
    She leads both states with RCP and in all the Kerry 2004 states, Trump leads in all the other Bush 2004 states.
    Clinton up to 7 in new Emerson poll for WI

    Without VI. WI or CO, Trump can't win
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,847

    Eggheads murder story makes more sense now.

    He told a story in his autobiography (yes somebody really did commision one) of 20 years ago, where he was in Holland and claimed a homeless guy attacked him with a knife and he fought him off and threw him in the canal.

    It’s amazing what some people will confess to in their autobiography.
    Why would a publisher pay for it if there was nothing 'juicy' contained within?
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @DavidSillitoBBC: Paul Hollywood offered role on #TopGear by BBC before switching to #gbbo on ch4. according to a source.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,847
    MaxPB said:

    A very thought-provoking piece, thanks.

    Although I think I disagree with the central thesis: the motivations are the same: it's a devaluation of the victim, making them lower, the 'other'. It's hard to abuse someone if you value them.

    It's why large-scale abuse occurs in all sorts of societies, for all sorts of reasons. Often, it's also why the authorities turn a blind eye - it certainly contributed in Rotherham. "These girls are trouble, and they've just got themeselves in more trouble. What do you expect?"

    Blaming the victim.

    No worries, the issue at hand is the motivation for devaluation of their victims. I'd venture that they are uniform in the latter scenario such as Rotherham, but vary within the first one in the church, though based on similar themes such as victims being deserving of abuse or not seeing it as abuse, but a twisted form of affection.

    Agreed on the reaction of the authorities, Professor Jay wrote about that extensively in her report. I was extremely impressed by her, where I expected a white wash, we received a hard hitting report that got to the core of the failures.
    A 'white wash'? I believe the modern term is a 'Chakrabati'
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799
    MaxPB said:

    A very thought-provoking piece, thanks.

    Although I think I disagree with the central thesis: the motivations are the same: it's a devaluation of the victim, making them lower, the 'other'. It's hard to abuse someone if you value them.

    It's why large-scale abuse occurs in all sorts of societies, for all sorts of reasons. Often, it's also why the authorities turn a blind eye - it certainly contributed in Rotherham. "These girls are trouble, and they've just got themeselves in more trouble. What do you expect?"

    Blaming the victim.

    No worries, the issue at hand is the motivation for devaluation of their victims. I'd venture that they are uniform in the latter scenario such as Rotherham, but vary within the first one in the church, though based on similar themes such as victims being deserving of abuse or not seeing it as abuse, but a twisted form of affection.

    Agreed on the reaction of the authorities, Professor Jay wrote about that extensively in her report. I was extremely impressed by her, where I expected a white wash, we received a hard hitting report that got to the core of the failures.
    When my mother was growing up in 1950's Ireland, there were occasional cases of girls committing suicide, after being made pregnant by close relatives. The tendency then would have been to blame the girls for seducing the relatives, rather than to see them as victims.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited September 2016
    Scott_P said:

    @DavidSillitoBBC: Paul Hollywood offered role on #TopGear by BBC before switching to #gbbo on ch4. according to a source.

    BBC obviously planning to create Britain's Great Bake Off show...
  • Options
    AndyJS said:

    Depressing analysis from Cathy Newman:

    "Social media has been destroyed by online trolls and there's no way back
    CATHY NEWMAN"


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/politics/social-media-has-been-destroyed-by-online-trolls-and-theres-no-w/

    This site is social media and hasnt been destroyed.

    The problem with twitter is that it is like the old usenet, not moderated so becomes who shouts loudest and longest.

    It does show why if there is an afterlife a heaven and hell is inevitable. Life is bearable here because we are constrained by time and space. The internet with immediate response compromises this and , without firewalls and moderators idiots and trolls ruin it.

    So if there is an eternal afterlife where we are not subject to the restrictions of time and space it would be unbearable if idiots and trolls were not penned in and segregated incommunicado in a separate place (generally known as hell).

    The major religions all say that we get a life here, limited by time and space, so that it can be worked out who the idiots and trolls are and them placed accordingly in the next world.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943
    edited September 2016

    New report out today by Centre for Cities shows that most UK cities are below the European average in terms of productivity. You can also see this in standard of living stats.

    In other words, outside London and it's hinterland the country is approx at East German or West Polish levels of development.

    We are in effect a below average country with a world city attached to it.

    Very obvious on this chart: image

    For starters the South comprises almost half the UK population and some areas of Scotland and patches of the North are also pretty productive. London has a higher GVA than anywhere in Europe and much of western Europe gravitates to it let alone those in the UK. Obviously the UK is an above average country in global terms in GVA even without London and probably in terms of Europe as a whole once you include the likes of Bulgaria, Romania, Greece and Portugal though maybe less so when looking at just western Europe
  • Options

    There may be issues with reliability but part of the problem would seem to be that poorer areas in the EU like southern spain etc. are only able to create the higher paid jobs and have much higher unemployment, whereas we - outside the constraints imposed by Euro Membership have been able to keep less skilled workers employed at wages commensurate with their abilities.

    Ie those yellow dots are actually a sucess story.

    Brexit Britain: Poor and thick but at least they've got jobs?
  • Options

    AndyJS said:

    Depressing analysis from Cathy Newman:

    "Social media has been destroyed by online trolls and there's no way back
    CATHY NEWMAN"


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/politics/social-media-has-been-destroyed-by-online-trolls-and-theres-no-w/

    This site is social media and hasnt been destroyed.

    The problem with twitter is that it is like the old usenet, not moderated so becomes who shouts loudest and longest.

    It does show why if there is an afterlife a heaven and hell is inevitable. Life is bearable here because we are constrained by time and space. The internet with immediate response compromises this and , without firewalls and moderators idiots and trolls ruin it.

    So if there is an eternal afterlife where we are not subject to the restrictions of time and space it would be unbearable if idiots and trolls were not penned in and segregated incommunicado in a separate place (generally known as hell).

    The major religions all say that we get a life here, limited by time and space, so that it can be worked out who the idiots and trolls are and them placed accordingly in the next world.
    The core problem with twitter is it is a terrible product that hasn't really evolved since it was launched.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Button batteries pose 'deadly' risk to toddlers

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-37410343

    The report says 10 years ago it hardly ever happened, but in recent years it has become more common.

    Am I being really dumb here, are "watch batteries" more common than ever? I think pretty much all my devices have internal rechargeable batteries (or AAA for tv remote). I can only think of a watch battery in a set of scales.

    One of my cycle lights has those batteries and my I replaced the ones in my dad's car key fob the other day. I guess if there are more devices with them then there's a greater risk that somebody will leave them lying around the house. But if you've got a toddler you really should know not to leave anything like that lying around!
    I used to think that. Now I have my own toddler, I've realised that it's hard to toddler-proof everything.

    There's an old saying: once you've idiot-proofed something, they go along and invent a better form of idiot. The same seems to be true for toddlers - the moment you've toddler-proofed something, the toddler just gets better!
    Fair point, I don't have any of my own so wouldn't criticize. But there really is no excuse for disposing of a battery the moment it's not being used. I wonder if there are some toys with these things that can be accessed by the child?
    We keep a couple of old margarine tubs on a high shelf , in which we keep loose coins and batteries (both buttons and AA/AAA). Every so often we take them to the bank / battery disposal point.

    Yet we had a minor choking incident when he swallowed a small piece of clear, solid plastic from a wrapping that had fallen on the floor. And yet I had vacuumed that day *after* we had opened the device.

    A lucky escape. Yet from talking to other parents, something that happens to many.

    I also caught him carrying open scissors the other day, which he had got off a hook in the kitchen. They now hang on a higher hook.

    Maybe I'm a bad parent, or maybe most people get away with these things though sheer luck.
    Well thinking about this logically, if you take the number of incidents of toddlers doing something they shouldn't that end up in hospital, you can probably multiply that by a factor of (?) to get the total number of incidents of toddlers behaving badly. So it's probably true that there are a lot of lucky escapes.
  • Options
    Scott_P said:

    @DavidSillitoBBC: Paul Hollywood offered role on #TopGear by BBC before switching to #gbbo on ch4. according to a source.

    Though he likes bikes, he would still be shit at it.
  • Options

    There may be issues with reliability but part of the problem would seem to be that poorer areas in the EU like southern spain etc. are only able to create the higher paid jobs and have much higher unemployment, whereas we - outside the constraints imposed by Euro Membership have been able to keep less skilled workers employed at wages commensurate with their abilities.

    Ie those yellow dots are actually a sucess story.

    Brexit Britain: Poor and thick but at least they've got jobs?
    Better to rule in Britain than serve in the EU?
  • Options
    Scott_P said:

    @DavidSillitoBBC: Paul Hollywood offered role on #TopGear by BBC before switching to #gbbo on ch4. according to a source.

    When two major organisations end up in a bidding war for Paul Hollywood just to save face, you know something's gone badly wrong.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799

    There may be issues with reliability but part of the problem would seem to be that poorer areas in the EU like southern spain etc. are only able to create the higher paid jobs and have much higher unemployment, whereas we - outside the constraints imposed by Euro Membership have been able to keep less skilled workers employed at wages commensurate with their abilities.

    Ie those yellow dots are actually a sucess story.

    Brexit Britain: Poor and thick but at least they've got jobs?
    It's better to have a job than not to have one.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,847
    edited September 2016

    AndyJS said:

    Depressing analysis from Cathy Newman:

    "Social media has been destroyed by online trolls and there's no way back
    CATHY NEWMAN"


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/politics/social-media-has-been-destroyed-by-online-trolls-and-theres-no-w/

    This site is social media and hasnt been destroyed.

    The problem with twitter is that it is like the old usenet, not moderated so becomes who shouts loudest and longest.

    It does show why if there is an afterlife a heaven and hell is inevitable. Life is bearable here because we are constrained by time and space. The internet with immediate response compromises this and , without firewalls and moderators idiots and trolls ruin it.

    So if there is an eternal afterlife where we are not subject to the restrictions of time and space it would be unbearable if idiots and trolls were not penned in and segregated incommunicado in a separate place (generally known as hell).

    The major religions all say that we get a life here, limited by time and space, so that it can be worked out who the idiots and trolls are and them placed accordingly in the next world.
    The core problem with twitter is it is a terrible product that hasn't really evolved since it was launched.
    And they still have no idea how it will ever make money. Their business plan was clearly to be taken over and sell their massive user base, but they've turned down several massive ($10bns) offers now and are in danger of being overtaken by the technology and competitors.
  • Options

    Scott_P said:

    @DavidSillitoBBC: Paul Hollywood offered role on #TopGear by BBC before switching to #gbbo on ch4. according to a source.

    Though he likes bikes, he would still be shit at it.
    "Great British BIKE Off"?

    Problem solved :lol:
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799
    HYUFD said:

    New report out today by Centre for Cities shows that most UK cities are below the European average in terms of productivity. You can also see this in standard of living stats.

    In other words, outside London and it's hinterland the country is approx at East German or West Polish levels of development.

    We are in effect a below average country with a world city attached to it.

    Very obvious on this chart: image

    For starters the South comprises almost half the UK population and some areas of Scotland and patches of the North are also pretty productive. London has a higher GVA than anywhere in Europe and much of western Europe gravitates to it let alone those in the UK. Obviously the UK is an above average country in global terms in GVA even without London and probably in terms of Europe as a whole once you include the likes of Bulgaria, Romania, Greece and Portugal though maybe less so when looking at just western Europe
    http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/d/da/Gross_domestic_product_(GDP)_per_inhabitant_in_purchasing_power_standard_(PPS)_in_relation_to_the_EU-28_average,_by_NUTS_2_regions,_2014_(¹)_(%_of_the_EU-28_average,_EU-28_=_100)_RYB2016.png

    Most parts of the UK outside London have GDP per head running at between 90-125% of the EU average. Inner London, with the revenues of the City is obviously an outlier.
  • Options
    Occasional Baseball Betting Post

    Now that the division races are all but over, a couple of speculative picks to win the whole thing:

    Boston Red Sox @ 15/2
    LA Dodgers @ 10/1

    Take each-way if available (BetVictor has e/w with both the above prices).

    The Cubs look simply too short, and Texas shouldn't be favourites in the American League - they've had an astounding lucky season.

    http://www.oddschecker.com/baseball/mlb/world-series/winner
  • Options
    Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632
    edited September 2016
    Sean_F said:

    There may be issues with reliability but part of the problem would seem to be that poorer areas in the EU like southern spain etc. are only able to create the higher paid jobs and have much higher unemployment, whereas we - outside the constraints imposed by Euro Membership have been able to keep less skilled workers employed at wages commensurate with their abilities.

    Ie those yellow dots are actually a sucess story.

    Brexit Britain: Poor and thick but at least they've got jobs?
    It's better to have a job than not to have one.
    Indeed and the productivity figures in france may well be skewed by the huge employment taxes and difficulty in making people redundant stopping people setting up businesses that would be viable here and those that do employing as few as possible and automating as much as possible.

    No hand car washes over there
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943
    edited September 2016
    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    New report out today by Centre for Cities shows that most UK cities are below the European average in terms of productivity. You can also see this in standard of living stats.

    In other words, outside London and it's hinterland the country is approx at East German or West Polish levels of development.

    We are in effect a below average country with a world city attached to it.

    Very obvious on this chart: image

    For starters the South comprises almost half the UK population and some areas of Scotland and patches of the North are also pretty productive. London has a higher GVA than anywhere in Europe and much of western Europe gravitates to it let alone those in the UK. Obviously the UK is an above average country in global terms in GVA even without London and probably in terms of Europe as a whole once you include the likes of Bulgaria, Romania, Greece and Portugal though maybe less so when looking at just western Europe
    http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/d/da/Gross_domestic_product_(GDP)_per_inhabitant_in_purchasing_power_standard_(PPS)_in_relation_to_the_EU-28_average,_by_NUTS_2_regions,_2014_(¹)_(%_of_the_EU-28_average,_EU-28_=_100)_RYB2016.png
    a
    Most parts of the UK outside London have GDP per head running at between 90-125% of the EU average. Inner London, with the revenues of the City is obviously an outlier.
    Indeed, so Inner London is now the Manhattan of Europe and the rest of the UK is about the EU average. Hardly a 'below average country's then
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    The most damning thing about Twitter is that the management haven't got a clue on who their user base is. You can't make money from users you don't understand.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited September 2016
    Sandpit said:

    AndyJS said:

    Depressing analysis from Cathy Newman:

    "Social media has been destroyed by online trolls and there's no way back
    CATHY NEWMAN"


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/politics/social-media-has-been-destroyed-by-online-trolls-and-theres-no-w/

    This site is social media and hasnt been destroyed.

    The problem with twitter is that it is like the old usenet, not moderated so becomes who shouts loudest and longest.

    It does show why if there is an afterlife a heaven and hell is inevitable. Life is bearable here because we are constrained by time and space. The internet with immediate response compromises this and , without firewalls and moderators idiots and trolls ruin it.

    So if there is an eternal afterlife where we are not subject to the restrictions of time and space it would be unbearable if idiots and trolls were not penned in and segregated incommunicado in a separate place (generally known as hell).

    The major religions all say that we get a life here, limited by time and space, so that it can be worked out who the idiots and trolls are and them placed accordingly in the next world.
    The core problem with twitter is it is a terrible product that hasn't really evolved since it was launched.
    And they still have no idea how it will ever make money. Their business plan was clearly to be taken over and sell their massive user base, but they've turned down several massive ($10bns) offers now and are in danger of being overtaken by the technology and competitors.
    Oh yeah. I also believe that their analytics are far inferior to the likes of Facebook, who can tell potential advertisers how many 24 years old in Bognor Regis eat jacket potato once a week....

    I believe in addition to not selling, apparently they are really really crap / dumb when it comes to interacting with "stars". They basically just verify them and that is about it, and stars then just use it as a means to plug their own endorsements.
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    Sean_F said:

    There may be issues with reliability but part of the problem would seem to be that poorer areas in the EU like southern spain etc. are only able to create the higher paid jobs and have much higher unemployment, whereas we - outside the constraints imposed by Euro Membership have been able to keep less skilled workers employed at wages commensurate with their abilities.

    Ie those yellow dots are actually a sucess story.

    Brexit Britain: Poor and thick but at least they've got jobs?
    It's better to have a job than not to have one.
    Indeed and the productivity figures in france may well be skewed by the huge employment taxes and difficulty in making people redundant stopping people setting up businesses that would be viable here and those that do employing as few as possible and automating as much as possible.

    No hand car washes over there
    If our system works so well for ordinary people, why wreck it with Brexit?
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