Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Dreadful set of local election results overnight sees CON l

135

Comments

  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Bad news for Trump on my average daily tracking poll.
    The weekly update that I had to delay is in.

    Hillary 45.5
    Trump 44

    From a tie last week Hillary grew a small lead over last weekend, and it's still growing at around a 2 point lead right now, essentially the race is back to what it was at early September.

    Most importantly it's not that Trump is going down but Hillary going up, and the situation doesn't appear to be favourable for Trump.

    Since every time he gets close 3rd party voters seem to panic and break for Hillary to stop Trump, this means that for Trump to actually beat Hillary he has to get a majority of votes, a plurality in the opinion polls at any time is not enough.

    I just can't see how Trump can become more popular and less toxic than Hillary, even at the best circumstances (with Terrorism and Riots) he can't break even, and I can't see him winning the debate.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282

    IanB2 said:

    It is the hope that will kill the Lib Dems.

    Why? Hope is to LibDems as blood is to vampires. Or something like that, anyway.
    They think they are on their way back after gaining 18 seats in 4 months. Ignoring the fact that they are still under 2,000 seats. At their peak they had 5,000. At 100 seat gains a year it will take them 30 years to get back to where they once were.
    That assumes the rate does not change - in either direction, of course. But if Labour continue to the left, and May takes the Conservatives to the right, there may be plenty of room for the LD's to gather up votes.
    It would take a change in the voting system for them to win, but I certainly think there's good potential for a strong centrist, liberal voice to appeal to people.
    But that assumes that the centre ground opens up for them, and that they get the media attention that has been rather lacking for them of late.
    Yes, possible that they could gain from the abandoned centrist Lab voters. But this is about the rate of progress in large bites each year. Could they increase by more than 1,500 in 2017, 2018 and 2019 to go into 2020 GE with circa 3,500? I doubt it, but if they really want to be able to gain 30+ seats that is the sort of cllr base they would need to get to. Boasting about a few cllr by elections is just fluff.

    The big danger for them could be if the Greens picked up those votes.
    Corbyn is as much a threat to the Greens as he is an opportunity for the LibDems
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750
    IanB2 said:

    Animal_pb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Mortimer said:

    Scott_P said:

    With the Northern Powerhouse looking less likely, and hard Brexit more likely, George Osborne does seem to be positioning himself as the "I told you so" candidate.

    And winning praise from lefties in doing so.

    Relatively high risk for Osborne - I thought it was Cameron who liked a political gamble....
    Well I don't see any low risk options for Osbo, given his profile and popularity.

    Anyhow, there isn't any space to the left of Corbyn, and the small amount of space to the right of May is already over-crowded. So politics awaits someone ambitious anywhere from ex Cameroons through LibDem to Blairite who can stake out and build support around any sort of 'moderate' position.
    I genuinely don't get the idea of TMay as a hard right politician. So far, most of what we've seen has been pretty centrist, she just comes across as "tougher" than her predecessor. There's really not as much open space in the centre ground as some seem to suggest.
    Too early to say? It may be 'what she says' v 'what she does'.

    May's Downing Street words were reassuringly moderate (but then so were Thatcher's). Brexit is right-wing (on the basis that its principal champions have always been right-wing Tories and UKIP) and the harder flavours that appear to be heading our way are the more right wing. Grammar schools is another policy popular mostly with righter-wing Tories. Gove's prison reforms were moderate and have been ditched. Despite the talk about helping ordinary people struggling with their bills and the housing market there have been no concrete proposals as yet.

    Edit/ and anyway my point was that the political space to her right is already crowded, which is clearly true!
    A lot of people seem to think she is right wing, and are even rejoining the Tories on that basis. If she is not making a huge change in direction she is courting that image.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282

    IanB2 said:

    It is the hope that will kill the Lib Dems.

    Why? Hope is to LibDems as blood is to vampires. Or something like that, anyway.
    They think they are on their way back after gaining 18 seats in 4 months. Ignoring the fact that they are still under 2,000 seats. At their peak they had 5,000. At 100 seat gains a year it will take them 30 years to get back to where they once were.
    Just a reminder that most council seats are determined in batches every four years. May 2017 will be interesting.
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,549

    Google and crappy social networks...that sounds about right...

    I think Google would at least make money from it. Making use of the data, better advertising (which Twitter are hopeless at), directing people to YouTube and the Play Store, integrating other services like Google Maps, and probably dropping Google Assistant into it at some (which seems to be Google's big master plan for a lot of their services).
  • Options
    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    tlg86 said:

    Middlesex declare. Yorkshire need 240 of 40. Current Betting:

    Yorkshire 4/6
    Middlesex 5/2
    Somerset 4/1

    They are already ahead - 7-0 after 1
  • Options
    Speedy said:


    Since every time he gets close 3rd party voters seem to panic and break for Hillary to stop Trump, this means that for Trump to actually beat Hillary he has to get a majority of votes, a plurality in the opinion polls at any time is not enough.

    Or he could do it the Brexit way: Get the media reporting that he's losing, then win based on people who wouldn't admit they were going to vote for him.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited September 2016
    glw said:

    Google and crappy social networks...that sounds about right...

    I think Google would at least make money from it. Making use of the data, better advertising (which Twitter are hopeless at), directing people to YouTube and the Play Store, integrating other services like Google Maps, and probably dropping Google Assistant into it at some (which seems to be Google's big master plan for a lot of their services).
    You would hope so, given all their resources and interlinked products, but their record on "getting" social networks so far has been absolutely terrible. Also, as we said the other day the problem with twitter is not just the trolls, or the fact the main demographic of users are those with no money (and for teenagers it is most definitely not cool), or the piss poor data analytics, it is as a product it hasn't really changed since launched and for a newbie is not user friendly at all.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282
    edited September 2016
    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Animal_pb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Mortimer said:

    Scott_P said:

    With the Northern Powerhouse looking less likely, and hard Brexit more likely, George Osborne does seem to be positioning himself as the "I told you so" candidate.

    And winning praise from lefties in doing so.

    Relatively high risk for Osborne - I thought it was Cameron who liked a political gamble....
    Well I don't see any low risk options for Osbo, given his profile and popularity.

    Anyhow, there isn't any space to the left of Corbyn, and the small amount of space to the right of May is already over-crowded. So politics awaits someone ambitious anywhere from ex Cameroons through LibDem to Blairite who can stake out and build support around any sort of 'moderate' position.
    I genuinely don't get the idea of TMay as a hard right politician. So far, most of what we've seen has been pretty centrist, she just comes across as "tougher" than her predecessor. There's really not as much open space in the centre ground as some seem to suggest.
    Too early to say? It may be 'what she says' v 'what she does'.

    May's Downing Street words were reassuringly moderate (but then so were Thatcher's). Brexit is right-wing (on the basis that its principal champions have always been right-wing Tories and UKIP) and the harder flavours that appear to be heading our way are the more right wing. Grammar schools is another policy popular mostly with righter-wing Tories. Gove's prison reforms were moderate and have been ditched. Despite the talk about helping ordinary people struggling with their bills and the housing market there have been no concrete proposals as yet.

    Edit/ and anyway my point was that the political space to her right is already crowded, which is clearly true!
    A lot of people seem to think she is right wing, and are even rejoining the Tories on that basis. If she is not making a huge change in direction she is courting that image.
    The looming Autumn Statement will be critical. The Tories have to square, on the one hand, their fundamental economic outlook and six years of long-term-economic-plan = austerity with, on the other, the growing realisation that austerity is a dead end and that Brexit will need more monetary and fiscal support and more investment than the previous emphasis on balancing the books. I think this is a very difficult challenge. May's proto-Miliband 'many not few' rhetoric makes it even more so.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    edited September 2016
    glw said:

    Google and crappy social networks...that sounds about right...

    I think Google would at least make money from it. Making use of the data, better advertising (which Twitter are hopeless at), directing people to YouTube and the Play Store, integrating other services like Google Maps, and probably dropping Google Assistant into it at some (which seems to be Google's big master plan for a lot of their services).
    Twitter has a great base product but fiddles about on the edges - why can't we edit a tweet FFS? It's taken YEARS to have those named removed from the character count or the bizarre requirement to stick a period before a name to share a reply with everyone? Blah blah.

    And then there's the very obvious political bias/removal of trending subjects. It's doomed until someone who actually gets it - buys it.

    EDIT re advertising - today, I've had ads for sensible non-slip shoes, Citrix and IBM. At least they're in English. The relevance of these to me is zero. Just like every day. I've no idea what they're using to judge my interest areas. It can't be based on the 130k tweets I've posted as a sample size
  • Options
    GIN1138 said:

    Toxic failure George Osborne is still angling to be PM then?

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/george-osborne-warns-wont-fumble-next-leadership-bid/

    No - or at least, not based on that second-hand puff piece borrowed from the FT interview.
  • Options
    PlatoSaid said:

    glw said:

    Google and crappy social networks...that sounds about right...

    I think Google would at least make money from it. Making use of the data, better advertising (which Twitter are hopeless at), directing people to YouTube and the Play Store, integrating other services like Google Maps, and probably dropping Google Assistant into it at some (which seems to be Google's big master plan for a lot of their services).
    Twitter has a great base product but fiddles about on the edges - why can't we edit a tweet FFS? It's taken YEARS to have those named removed from the character count or the bizarre requirement to stick a period before a name to share a reply with everyone? Blah blah.

    And then there's the very obvious political bias/removal of trending subjects. It's doomed until someone who actually gets it - buys it.
    Why did they choose 140 rather than a more logical 150 characters?
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205
    I am in a mood so apologies in advance for the tone of this post.

    But - re Jim O'Neill -

    1. We can't moan about politicians all being infantile SPADs and other useless tossers with no experience of the world and all in it for themselves and then get snippy when someone older and experienced tries to give something back. O'Neill also got involved in the campaign to minimize the excessive use of antibiotics, a very worthwhile cause which will save lives.

    2. We can't complain about people making assumptions on the basis of some irrelevant characteristic and then launch into criticism of someone just because of where they worked without actually looking at the individual and seeing whether he or she is worth paying attention to.

    3. The North has been neglected and patronised and sneered at for far too long. This has been and continues to be a disgrace. If you have 5 hours available (and if you don't, find the time) listen to Melvyn Bragg's series "In the Matter of the North" and how a part of the world which was so central to the Industrial Revolution, to our culture and to our radical politics, to our politics generally has - despite its contribution - been so derided.

    4. We cannot attack politicians like Cameron and Blair for abandoning politics to line their own pockets and then get snippy at those who stick around even as lowly backbenchers. It is to Osborne's credit (whatever his other motives may be) that he is continuing with his Northern Powerhouse project.

    There is not a superabundance of talent in the government that we can afford to be so careless with those who are trying to help. May herself is not some sort of genius who can sort out everything herself, no matter how hard she works. She will need help. She will need to syndicate her decisions and have others supporting and speaking up about the government's policies. The government has barely left the harbour. What the hell will happen when it is out in the open sea? When it is in stormy seas?

    I can be as cynical as the next person. But I think it a pity that some silly policies and some silly ways of reaching decisions have led people to bail out. That does not bode well for good government and we will need this in the years ahead.
  • Options
    619619 Posts: 1,784

    Speedy said:


    Since every time he gets close 3rd party voters seem to panic and break for Hillary to stop Trump, this means that for Trump to actually beat Hillary he has to get a majority of votes, a plurality in the opinion polls at any time is not enough.

    Or he could do it the Brexit way: Get the media reporting that he's losing, then win based on people who wouldn't admit they were going to vote for him.
    From what group? He is down in all groups by a large degree except for WWC, which is factored in the polls. Unless you are saying there are a large contingent of college educated white's who agree with him ( which is somewhat unlikely given he hasn't tried courting them) I don't see where the hidden voters are coming from.
  • Options

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:


    Brexit is right-wing (on the basis that its principal champions have always been right-wing Tories and UKIP)

    Brexit was voted for by the majority and is by its very nature neither left wing or right wing, but populist...
    Even within the Tory party it was always a right-wing obsession, and you see the same across Europe - it's generally the right wing parties (Le Pen et al) who are leading the anti-EU crusade.
    I voted Labour at the GE2015.
    and you'll have to live with that ghastly thought forever whirring around in your head...

    Voting for Miliband Jr.. Yikes!
    Actually, I voted for Wes Streeting :)
  • Options

    Speedy said:


    Since every time he gets close 3rd party voters seem to panic and break for Hillary to stop Trump, this means that for Trump to actually beat Hillary he has to get a majority of votes, a plurality in the opinion polls at any time is not enough.

    Or he could do it the Brexit way: Get the media reporting that he's losing, then win based on people who wouldn't admit they were going to vote for him.
    Particularly as the people in that category are disproportionately in the states he needs to win.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:


    Brexit is right-wing (on the basis that its principal champions have always been right-wing Tories and UKIP)

    Brexit was voted for by the majority and is by its very nature neither left wing or right wing, but populist...
    Even within the Tory party it was always a right-wing obsession, and you see the same across Europe - it's generally the right wing parties (Le Pen et al) who are leading the anti-EU crusade.
    I voted Labour at the GE2015.
    and you'll have to live with that ghastly thought forever whirring around in your head...

    Voting for Miliband Jr.. Yikes!
    Actually, I voted for Wes Streeting :)
    Vote Streeting get Miliband. Or vote Streeting get Corbyn. That latter one he is going to find tough.
  • Options
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:


    Brexit is right-wing (on the basis that its principal champions have always been right-wing Tories and UKIP)

    Brexit was voted for by the majority and is by its very nature neither left wing or right wing, but populist...
    Even within the Tory party it was always a right-wing obsession, and you see the same across Europe - it's generally the right wing parties (Le Pen et al) who are leading the anti-EU crusade.
    I voted Labour at the GE2015.
    and you'll have to live with that ghastly thought forever whirring around in your head...

    Voting for Miliband Jr.. Yikes!
    Actually, I voted for Wes Streeting :)
    Vote Streeting get Miliband. Or vote Streeting get Corbyn. That latter one he is going to find tough.
    I think Wes backed Kendall last summer.
  • Options
    PlatoSaid said:

    why can't we edit a tweet FFS?

    You don't want things you've retweeted changing underneath you.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    It is the hope that will kill the Lib Dems.

    Why? Hope is to LibDems as blood is to vampires. Or something like that, anyway.
    They think they are on their way back after gaining 18 seats in 4 months. Ignoring the fact that they are still under 2,000 seats. At their peak they had 5,000. At 100 seat gains a year it will take them 30 years to get back to where they once were.
    Just a reminder that most council seats are determined in batches every four years. May 2017 will be interesting.
    My recollection in previous years has been the LDs held up well even won in many individual by-elections, but still got smashed in the batch elections in May. Next year will be interesting. In Wiltshire where I am in 2013 the LDs increased their seats by a few despite dropping masses of votes (and moving from second place in like 50 seats to second in about 10), it'll be interesting if now we are out of coalition government and May seems to be wanting to disassociate herself with anything Cameroon, whether the vote increases.
  • Options
    At yet I was laughing out loud every time Labour lost a seat on Election Night - I stayed up till 8 am!!!
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750
    It was said that Twitter didn't seem to understand its own service or what people wanted from it, or how to make money from it. The last one seems to have improved a bit hasn't it? (I don't use Twitter).
  • Options

    Speedy said:


    Since every time he gets close 3rd party voters seem to panic and break for Hillary to stop Trump, this means that for Trump to actually beat Hillary he has to get a majority of votes, a plurality in the opinion polls at any time is not enough.

    Or he could do it the Brexit way: Get the media reporting that he's losing, then win based on people who wouldn't admit they were going to vote for him.
    The referendum polling failure was, I think, more down to the fact that people who don't vote but said they would broke with tradition and actually did.
  • Options

    PlatoSaid said:

    glw said:

    Google and crappy social networks...that sounds about right...

    I think Google would at least make money from it. Making use of the data, better advertising (which Twitter are hopeless at), directing people to YouTube and the Play Store, integrating other services like Google Maps, and probably dropping Google Assistant into it at some (which seems to be Google's big master plan for a lot of their services).
    Twitter has a great base product but fiddles about on the edges - why can't we edit a tweet FFS? It's taken YEARS to have those named removed from the character count or the bizarre requirement to stick a period before a name to share a reply with everyone? Blah blah.

    And then there's the very obvious political bias/removal of trending subjects. It's doomed until someone who actually gets it - buys it.
    Why did they choose 140 rather than a more logical 150 characters?

    It was originally designed to be used using mobile texting which set the upper limit (160 - less 20 reserved chars for Twitter stuff).

  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282
    edited September 2016
    Cyclefree said:

    I am in a mood so apologies in advance for the tone of this post.

    But - re Jim O'Neill -

    1. We can't moan about politicians all being infantile SPADs and other useless tossers with no experience of the world and all in it for themselves and then get snippy when someone older and experienced tries to give something back. O'Neill also got involved in the campaign to minimize the excessive use of antibiotics, a very worthwhile cause which will save lives.

    2. We can't complain about people making assumptions on the basis of some irrelevant characteristic and then launch into criticism of someone just because of where they worked without actually looking at the individual and seeing whether he or she is worth paying attention to.

    3. The North has been neglected and patronised and sneered at for far too long. This has been and continues to be a disgrace. If you have 5 hours available (and if you don't, find the time) listen to Melvyn Bragg's series "In the Matter of the North" and how a part of the world which was so central to the Industrial Revolution, to our culture and to our radical politics, to our politics generally has - despite its contribution - been so derided.

    4. We cannot attack politicians like Cameron and Blair for abandoning politics to line their own pockets and then get snippy at those who stick around even as lowly backbenchers. It is to Osborne's credit (whatever his other motives may be) that he is continuing with his Northern Powerhouse project.

    There is not a superabundance of talent in the government that we can afford to be so careless with those who are trying to help. May herself is not some sort of genius who can sort out everything herself, no matter how hard she works. She will need help. She will need to syndicate her decisions and have others supporting and speaking up about the government's policies. The government has barely left the harbour. What the hell will happen when it is out in the open sea? When it is in stormy seas?

    I can be as cynical as the next person. But I think it a pity that some silly policies and some silly ways of reaching decisions have led people to bail out. That does not bode well for good government and we will need this in the years ahead.

    Stroppy or not I agree with most of this. And don't really understand why May would not want to continue Osborne's new emphasis on the north - even if this was as much of politics as of genuine purpose? As well as being inherently worthwhile in terms of rebalancing the country, it would appear to fit with May's Downing Street aspirations. The only counter-explanation I can see is that May is going to turn into one of those narrow minded 'looking after our own people' type of Tories, which is not what she promised.
  • Options

    PlatoSaid said:

    glw said:

    Google and crappy social networks...that sounds about right...

    I think Google would at least make money from it. Making use of the data, better advertising (which Twitter are hopeless at), directing people to YouTube and the Play Store, integrating other services like Google Maps, and probably dropping Google Assistant into it at some (which seems to be Google's big master plan for a lot of their services).
    Twitter has a great base product but fiddles about on the edges - why can't we edit a tweet FFS? It's taken YEARS to have those named removed from the character count or the bizarre requirement to stick a period before a name to share a reply with everyone? Blah blah.

    And then there's the very obvious political bias/removal of trending subjects. It's doomed until someone who actually gets it - buys it.
    Why did they choose 140 rather than a more logical 150 characters?
    SMS length 160 chars. Username uses 20 chars of that.

    I think!
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750

    PlatoSaid said:

    glw said:

    Google and crappy social networks...that sounds about right...

    I think Google would at least make money from it. Making use of the data, better advertising (which Twitter are hopeless at), directing people to YouTube and the Play Store, integrating other services like Google Maps, and probably dropping Google Assistant into it at some (which seems to be Google's big master plan for a lot of their services).
    Twitter has a great base product but fiddles about on the edges - why can't we edit a tweet FFS? It's taken YEARS to have those named removed from the character count or the bizarre requirement to stick a period before a name to share a reply with everyone? Blah blah.

    And then there's the very obvious political bias/removal of trending subjects. It's doomed until someone who actually gets it - buys it.
    Why did they choose 140 rather than a more logical 150 characters?
    Wasn't it because the system was designed to be used in conjunction with text messages, and they had a character limit of something like 162 and the rest was taken up with the code for the software. (I don't know computing, obviously)
  • Options
    IanB2 said:

    Stroppy or not I agree with most of this. And don't really understand why May would not want to continue Osborne's new emphasis on the north - even if this was as much of politics as of genuine purpose? As well as being inherently worthwhile in terms of rebalancing the country, it would appear to fit with May's Downing Street aspirations. The only counter-explanation I can see is that May is going to turn into one of those narrow minded 'protecting our own people' type of Tories, which is not what she promised.

    "even if this was as much of politics as of genuine purpose? "

    I think Osborne really believed in the Northern Powerhouse. After the election win last year, one of his first - I think his first - tweet was about the need to get building the Northern Powerhouse.

    If Twitter had a better interface I might even be able to find it ...
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,549
    edited September 2016

    If Twitter had a better interface I might even be able to find it ...

    And that's something else Google could fix, integrate a decent search engine.

  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282
    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    It is the hope that will kill the Lib Dems.

    Why? Hope is to LibDems as blood is to vampires. Or something like that, anyway.
    They think they are on their way back after gaining 18 seats in 4 months. Ignoring the fact that they are still under 2,000 seats. At their peak they had 5,000. At 100 seat gains a year it will take them 30 years to get back to where they once were.
    Just a reminder that most council seats are determined in batches every four years. May 2017 will be interesting.
    My recollection in previous years has been the LDs held up well even won in many individual by-elections, but still got smashed in the batch elections in May. Next year will be interesting. In Wiltshire where I am in 2013 the LDs increased their seats by a few despite dropping masses of votes (and moving from second place in like 50 seats to second in about 10), it'll be interesting if now we are out of coalition government and May seems to be wanting to disassociate herself with anything Cameroon, whether the vote increases.
    I think they will gain but the question is by how much. The real challenge they face is that six years of losses have hit their banks of activists, councillors and local funding, so it is hard for them to step up to win a raft of wards at the same time, even if we assume that the political prospects are more positive. Having lots of new members will help with this, but the benefits of experienced campaigners, councillors with a profile and contacts, and the money that being elected brings in are hard to quickly replace.
  • Options

    PlatoSaid said:

    glw said:

    Google and crappy social networks...that sounds about right...

    I think Google would at least make money from it. Making use of the data, better advertising (which Twitter are hopeless at), directing people to YouTube and the Play Store, integrating other services like Google Maps, and probably dropping Google Assistant into it at some (which seems to be Google's big master plan for a lot of their services).
    Twitter has a great base product but fiddles about on the edges - why can't we edit a tweet FFS? It's taken YEARS to have those named removed from the character count or the bizarre requirement to stick a period before a name to share a reply with everyone? Blah blah.

    And then there's the very obvious political bias/removal of trending subjects. It's doomed until someone who actually gets it - buys it.
    Why did they choose 140 rather than a more logical 150 characters?
    SMS
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,335
    edited September 2016
    Cyclefree said:

    I am in a mood so apologies in advance for the tone of this post.

    But - re Jim O'Neill - (snip to avoid repeating)

    I broadly agree with you, with the reservation that it's hard to extrapolate for single cases - like marriages which are often a mystery to close friends (either that they work or that they don't fall apart), an individual can simply fall out with the PM and then various policy issues reinforce an underlying antipathy.

    But it does seem striking that May is accumulating quite a few dissatisfied people who with a little effort she could have kept on board. Cameron is reportedly quite alienated, to the point of having changed his min about staying on; Osborne is in "loyal opposition" mode already, and we've only just started. She seems to believe in relatively small tents, and that could be an awkward trait when the going gets rough, partly because she doesn't have a mandate from anyone, except for being the only candidate left standing.

  • Options
    Good afternoon, everyone.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @BBCJLandale: David Cameron's chief of staff, Ed Llewellyn, appointed UK Ambassador to Paris. A political appointment that might ruffle feathers.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282

    IanB2 said:

    Stroppy or not I agree with most of this. And don't really understand why May would not want to continue Osborne's new emphasis on the north - even if this was as much of politics as of genuine purpose? As well as being inherently worthwhile in terms of rebalancing the country, it would appear to fit with May's Downing Street aspirations. The only counter-explanation I can see is that May is going to turn into one of those narrow minded 'protecting our own people' type of Tories, which is not what she promised.

    "even if this was as much of politics as of genuine purpose? "

    I think Osborne really believed in the Northern Powerhouse. After the election win last year, one of his first - I think his first - tweet was about the need to get building the Northern Powerhouse.

    If Twitter had a better interface I might even be able to find it ...
    Yes, but with Osborne there was always politics involved. Arguably with Ruth's successes in Scotland, the urban north remains more allergic to the Tories than do the Scots. It was good politics to use Labour's weakness to try and counter this, as well as good sense for the country. The most disappointing rumour I have heard is that May is killing it because she doesn't want the more powerful northern mayoral positions to rescue the careers of the leading moderate Labour MPs. If this is the true reason this would be disappointing and make her worse than Osborne in terms of her motivation.
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Good afternoon Mr. Dancer. :)
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    By the way what time are the results of the Labour leadership election due tomorrow ?
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    Alistair said:

    Yup, you have to pay careful attention to whether polls are reporting Registered Voters, All Respondents, Likely Voters etc as their result.
    Hi, what was that website that showed how people are voting based on party registration in North Carolina?
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,715
    AndyJS said:

    Infratest dimap:

    CDU/CSU: 32%
    SPD: 22%
    AfD: 16%
    Green: 12%
    Left: 8%
    FDP: 6%

    http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/

    Any coalition except a continuation of the CDU/SPD grand alliance, for which the numbers currently only barely stack up, must necessarily include AfD
  • Options
    "Labour peer regrets 'buy a vote' election rules"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37452165
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:


    Brexit is right-wing (on the basis that its principal champions have always been right-wing Tories and UKIP)

    Brexit was voted for by the majority and is by its very nature neither left wing or right wing, but populist...
    Even within the Tory party it was always a right-wing obsession, and you see the same across Europe - it's generally the right wing parties (Le Pen et al) who are leading the anti-EU crusade.
    I voted Labour at the GE2015.
    and you'll have to live with that ghastly thought forever whirring around in your head...

    Voting for Miliband Jr.. Yikes!
    Actually, I voted for Wes Streeting :)
    Vote Streeting get Miliband. Or vote Streeting get Corbyn. That latter one he is going to find tough.
    I think Wes backed Kendall last summer.
    I can guarantee that if you vote for Streeting again, you ain't gonna get Kendall...
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Umm

    EyeSpy
    After media hype + government response, sad to see @lynbrownmp texting & driving on Upton Lane at 14:20
  • Options
    Speedy said:

    By the way what time are the results of the Labour leadership election due tomorrow ?

    The result of the election will be announced at the Leadership Conference on Saturday 24 September 2016. The event will be broadcast live on labour.org.uk and on Labour's Facebook page from 11:45am.

    http://www.labour.org.uk/pages/labour-party-leadership-election-2016
  • Options
    FF43 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Infratest dimap:

    CDU/CSU: 32%
    SPD: 22%
    AfD: 16%
    Green: 12%
    Left: 8%
    FDP: 6%

    http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/

    Any coalition except a continuation of the CDU/SPD grand alliance, for which the numbers currently only barely stack up, must necessarily include AfD
    A Jamaica coalition would just about work if the SPD refused to deal with the AfD, which would certainly be the case.
  • Options
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Stroppy or not I agree with most of this. And don't really understand why May would not want to continue Osborne's new emphasis on the north - even if this was as much of politics as of genuine purpose? As well as being inherently worthwhile in terms of rebalancing the country, it would appear to fit with May's Downing Street aspirations. The only counter-explanation I can see is that May is going to turn into one of those narrow minded 'protecting our own people' type of Tories, which is not what she promised.

    "even if this was as much of politics as of genuine purpose? "

    I think Osborne really believed in the Northern Powerhouse. After the election win last year, one of his first - I think his first - tweet was about the need to get building the Northern Powerhouse.

    If Twitter had a better interface I might even be able to find it ...
    Yes, but with Osborne there was always politics involved. Arguably with Ruth's successes in Scotland, the urban north remains more allergic to the Tories than do the Scots. It was good politics to use Labour's weakness to try and counter this, as well as good sense for the country. (Snip)
    "Yes, but with Osborne there was always politics involved."

    I'd argue that's the case for all senior politicians. That's why they're politicians.

    But I do think Osborne believed (and believes) in the NP. Yes, there were some electoral advantages, but these were minor compared to the political capital it required. Also, it involved *working* with some Labour figures and councils.

    As much as I try, I cannot see much reason for cynicism. Although the proof may come if he abandons pressing the NP's cause now.

    Agree with the rest of your post.
  • Options
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:


    Brexit is right-wing (on the basis that its principal champions have always been right-wing Tories and UKIP)

    Brexit was voted for by the majority and is by its very nature neither left wing or right wing, but populist...
    Even within the Tory party it was always a right-wing obsession, and you see the same across Europe - it's generally the right wing parties (Le Pen et al) who are leading the anti-EU crusade.
    I voted Labour at the GE2015.
    and you'll have to live with that ghastly thought forever whirring around in your head...

    Voting for Miliband Jr.. Yikes!
    Actually, I voted for Wes Streeting :)
    Vote Streeting get Miliband. Or vote Streeting get Corbyn. That latter one he is going to find tough.
    I think Wes backed Kendall last summer.
    I can guarantee that if you vote for Streeting again, you ain't gonna get Kendall...
    Well, whomever I vote for, the new Ilford North will no longer be a marginal, but pretty safe Labour.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited September 2016
    FF43 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Infratest dimap:

    CDU/CSU: 32%
    SPD: 22%
    AfD: 16%
    Green: 12%
    Left: 8%
    FDP: 6%

    http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/

    Any coalition except a continuation of the CDU/SPD grand alliance, for which the numbers currently only barely stack up, must necessarily include AfD
    Not a chance, Greens or FDP.

    Which of course will worsen the problems for the CDU, the Greens have a far left immigration policy and the FDP has a strong liberal economic string, both of which strengthen the AFD.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,993
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    FPT:

    Scott_P said:

    @PickardJE: Lord O'Neill resigns as infrastructure minister. Annoyed by Hinkley review, Northern Powerhouse "wobble" and grammar school policy, am told.

    This is much more a problem for May than one week's set of local election results.
    Why?

    An average Goldmans partner who was best known for coining the phrase "BRICs" 15 years ago realises that for all the time he spent kissing ar*e, he'd been kissing the wrong one and decides not to waste his time where there is no preferment on the horizon.
    Charles,

    Given you seem to find it necessary to mention all the great and good you meet, I'm not sure you should be the one throwing around accusations of ar*e licking. ;)

    Oh, and how's the Garden Bridge going?
    I've never met O'Neill, FWIW. I'm just being rude about him on principle.

    One of the reasons I like Jim O'Neill is that he's not Gavyn Davis, who once marched into the office of the Head of Research and demanded that I be fired.
  • Options

    FF43 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Infratest dimap:

    CDU/CSU: 32%
    SPD: 22%
    AfD: 16%
    Green: 12%
    Left: 8%
    FDP: 6%

    http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/

    Any coalition except a continuation of the CDU/SPD grand alliance, for which the numbers currently only barely stack up, must necessarily include AfD
    A Jamaica coalition would just about work if the SPD refused to deal with the AfD, which would certainly be the case.
    A Jamaica coalition, headed by Ali G?

    Wicked!
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    FPT:

    Scott_P said:

    @PickardJE: Lord O'Neill resigns as infrastructure minister. Annoyed by Hinkley review, Northern Powerhouse "wobble" and grammar school policy, am told.

    This is much more a problem for May than one week's set of local election results.
    Why?

    An average Goldmans partner who was best known for coining the phrase "BRICs" 15 years ago realises that for all the time he spent kissing ar*e, he'd been kissing the wrong one and decides not to waste his time where there is no preferment on the horizon.
    Charles,

    Given you seem to find it necessary to mention all the great and good you meet, I'm not sure you should be the one throwing around accusations of ar*e licking. ;)

    Oh, and how's the Garden Bridge going?
    I've never met O'Neill, FWIW. I'm just being rude about him on principle.

    One of the reasons I like Jim O'Neill is that he's not Gavyn Davis, who once marched into the office of the Head of Research and demanded that I be fired.
    I would happily be rude about Gavyn Davies; Jim I am sure is absolutely lovely (for a Goldman Sachs alumni)
  • Options
    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    FPT:

    Scott_P said:

    @PickardJE: Lord O'Neill resigns as infrastructure minister. Annoyed by Hinkley review, Northern Powerhouse "wobble" and grammar school policy, am told.

    This is much more a problem for May than one week's set of local election results.
    Why?

    An average Goldmans partner who was best known for coining the phrase "BRICs" 15 years ago realises that for all the time he spent kissing ar*e, he'd been kissing the wrong one and decides not to waste his time where there is no preferment on the horizon.
    Charles,

    Given you seem to find it necessary to mention all the great and good you meet, I'm not sure you should be the one throwing around accusations of ar*e licking. ;)

    Oh, and how's the Garden Bridge going?
    I've never met O'Neill, FWIW. I'm just being rude about him on principle.

    One of the reasons I like Jim O'Neill is that he's not Gavyn Davis, who once marched into the office of the Head of Research and demanded that I be fired.
    I would happily be rude about Gavyn Davies; Jim I am sure is absolutely lovely (for a Goldman Sachs alumni)
    Alumnus!
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282

    Speedy said:

    By the way what time are the results of the Labour leadership election due tomorrow ?

    The result of the election will be announced at the Leadership Conference on Saturday 24 September 2016. The event will be broadcast live on labour.org.uk and on Labour's Facebook page from 11:45am.

    http://www.labour.org.uk/pages/labour-party-leadership-election-2016
    With all the build up on BBC2 from 1100...
  • Options

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    FPT:

    Scott_P said:

    @PickardJE: Lord O'Neill resigns as infrastructure minister. Annoyed by Hinkley review, Northern Powerhouse "wobble" and grammar school policy, am told.

    This is much more a problem for May than one week's set of local election results.
    Why?

    An average Goldmans partner who was best known for coining the phrase "BRICs" 15 years ago realises that for all the time he spent kissing ar*e, he'd been kissing the wrong one and decides not to waste his time where there is no preferment on the horizon.
    Charles,

    Given you seem to find it necessary to mention all the great and good you meet, I'm not sure you should be the one throwing around accusations of ar*e licking. ;)

    Oh, and how's the Garden Bridge going?
    I've never met O'Neill, FWIW. I'm just being rude about him on principle.

    One of the reasons I like Jim O'Neill is that he's not Gavyn Davis, who once marched into the office of the Head of Research and demanded that I be fired.
    I would happily be rude about Gavyn Davies; Jim I am sure is absolutely lovely (for a Goldman Sachs alumni)
    Alumnus!
    His name is Legion, for he is many.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    One of the reasons I like Jim O'Neill is that he's not Gavyn Davis, who once marched into the office of the Head of Research and demanded that I be fired.

    Was his request granted?
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Sam Coates
    I know people in Whitehall baffled that Ed Llewellyn took a political peerage while also being lined up for Paris. Does he ever vote?
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282
    edited September 2016
    PlatoSaid said:

    Umm

    EyeSpy
    After media hype + government response, sad to see @lynbrownmp texting & driving on Upton Lane at 14:20

    I see that she has hit back with "untrue" and the cheeky person at eyespy has replied that she was so quick she must hardly ever be off the phone!
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    Speedy said:

    By the way what time are the results of the Labour leadership election due tomorrow ?

    The result of the election will be announced at the Leadership Conference on Saturday 24 September 2016. The event will be broadcast live on labour.org.uk and on Labour's Facebook page from 11:45am.

    http://www.labour.org.uk/pages/labour-party-leadership-election-2016
    Thanks.

    Speculation is already rife that Corbyn won by around 65%:

    https://twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/779240792426708993

    In which case I have the Headline ready:
    "LABOUR SAVED FROM SAVING LABOUR"

    Which is ironic, but entirely accurate as Owen Smith and his Saving Labour camp proved to be absolutely 100% crap, I can only imagine the carnage if those people ran Labour (I have the suspicion that they did ran Labour in the 2007-2010 period).

    Compared to them Corbyn looks like the Duke of Wellington.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,335


    The referendum polling failure was, I think, more down to the fact that people who don't vote but said they would broke with tradition and actually did.

    That's right, and it's a reason to be a bit wary of the current polls too. A lot of young people finally did register for the referendum, and mostly voted too. The polls are heavily tweaked on the assumption that they won't in a GE. There is a danger with poll tweaks that they're always fighting the last war.
  • Options


    If Twitter had a better interface I might even be able to find it ...

    The Twitter user-interface is quite spectacularly bad. Searching is a complete no-no; whenever I've tried it; it has produced the most baffling results most of which bear no relation at all to the search. The screen is absurdly cluttered with junk, almost as bad as LinkedIn. I've never been able to figure out how to get a sane font size.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    From the smelling salts it seems as if Corbyn is destined for 50%+ of the eligible vote.

    Which is an complete and absolute mandate.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited September 2016
    nunu said:

    Alistair said:

    Yup, you have to pay careful attention to whether polls are reporting Registered Voters, All Respondents, Likely Voters etc as their result.
    Hi, what was that website that showed how people are voting based on party registration in North Carolina?
    @nunu
    http://www.oldnorthstatepolitics.com/

    Dem returns still ahead, by this time in 2012 Republican returns had overtaken.
  • Options
    Mr. Pulpstar, indeed.

    But then, the first hour after 10pm on 23 June had estimates of a 10 point victory for Remain. I suspect the Labour rumours are likelier to be true, but they're not yet chiselled in stone.
  • Options
    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited September 2016


    Secrets that a few dozen people know about are the kind of thing that prediction markets are very efficient at pricing in, which is an argument against betting on this unless you're in on them too...

    That can be true.

    I think more often than not though, these *secrets* give the betting markets value.

    People privilege their own *insider* information and can be pretty bad at assigning a probability to the credibility of that information.

    In a fairly low liquidity betting market, a wealthy overeager occasional punter who believes what one of their bullshitting friends said in the pub can create value for those betting on only publicly available info.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,993
    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    It is the hope that will kill the Lib Dems.

    Why? Hope is to LibDems as blood is to vampires. Or something like that, anyway.
    They think they are on their way back after gaining 18 seats in 4 months. Ignoring the fact that they are still under 2,000 seats. At their peak they had 5,000. At 100 seat gains a year it will take them 30 years to get back to where they once were.
    Just a reminder that most council seats are determined in batches every four years. May 2017 will be interesting.
    My recollection in previous years has been the LDs held up well even won in many individual by-elections, but still got smashed in the batch elections in May. Next year will be interesting. In Wiltshire where I am in 2013 the LDs increased their seats by a few despite dropping masses of votes (and moving from second place in like 50 seats to second in about 10), it'll be interesting if now we are out of coalition government and May seems to be wanting to disassociate herself with anything Cameroon, whether the vote increases.
    I think they will gain but the question is by how much. The real challenge they face is that six years of losses have hit their banks of activists, councillors and local funding, so it is hard for them to step up to win a raft of wards at the same time, even if we assume that the political prospects are more positive. Having lots of new members will help with this, but the benefits of experienced campaigners, councillors with a profile and contacts, and the money that being elected brings in are hard to quickly replace.
    Didn't the LibDems gain in May of this year?
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    For general USA early voting stuff

    https://twitter.com/electproject / www.electproject.org

    is a great source
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    edited September 2016
    Pong said:


    Secrets that a few dozen people know about are the kind of thing that prediction markets are very efficient at pricing in, which is an argument against betting on this unless you're in on them too...

    That can be true.

    I think more often than not though, these *secrets* give the betting markets value.

    People privilege their own *insider* information and can be pretty bad at assigning a probability to the credibility of that information.
    The election is now only 43 days away, and early voting has started - this improves both the return, and reduces the risk of backing Crumpton.

    It's a different situation to say 3 months ago.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Mr Memory
    Assuming he takes up his peerage soon, Edward Llewellyn will be the 1st serving Ambassador to France to be a peer since Lord Tyrrell in 1934 https://t.co/tq7I89ZgCB
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Matthew Goodwin
    Support for banning the burka in UK (YouGov):
    Remainers 40%
    London 51%
    Nationally 57%
    North 63%
    Conservatives 66%
    Leavers 78%
    Ukippers 84%
  • Options
    PlatoSaid said:

    Matthew Goodwin
    Support for banning the burka in UK (YouGov):

    The only real surprise there is multi-culti London at 51%.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    There look to be three political1 shorties about at the moment

    Corbyn to win
    Trump or Clinton POTUS
    Con HOLD Witney

    Which of those should be the shortest priced, discuss.
  • Options


    If Twitter had a better interface I might even be able to find it ...

    The Twitter user-interface is quite spectacularly bad. Searching is a complete no-no; whenever I've tried it; it has produced the most baffling results most of which bear no relation at all to the search. The screen is absurdly cluttered with junk, almost as bad as LinkedIn. I've never been able to figure out how to get a sane font size.
    This is pretty much why I use a third-party app for Twitter.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282
    edited September 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    There look to be three political1 shorties about at the moment

    Corbyn to win
    Trump or Clinton POTUS
    Con HOLD Witney

    Which of those should be the shortest priced, discuss.

    Corby, as the votes are already cast and part counted (any pending election having a small probability of the truly unexpected event), and the rumours are confirming the polls.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,067
    edited September 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    There look to be three political1 shorties about at the moment

    Corbyn to win
    Trump or Clinton POTUS
    Con HOLD Witney

    Which of those should be the shortest priced, discuss.

    Trump or Clinton POTUS should be the shortest price. No chance of anyone else.

    Edit: Although I've overlooked Ian's point below... Corbyn FTW.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Alistair said:

    For general USA early voting stuff

    https://twitter.com/electproject / www.electproject.org

    is a great source

    A word of caution, Romney thought he won in 2012 based on the early voting returns.

    With that out of the way, I can't see how Hillary loses this election as long as she is marginally more popular than Trump and a majority of americans are scared as hell of him.

    Trump has still never lead nationally, and he has to be leading nationally by 2 to win Wisconsin and perhaps Colorado and of course the election.

    A majority of americans think that Trump is going to use nukes, that's how scary he is, a majority of voters actually believes that Trump will bring the apocalypse if elected.

    In public opinion he is like Frankenstein's monster, how can he convince people that he is not a monster in just 40 days ?
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    There look to be three political1 shorties about at the moment

    Corbyn to win
    Trump or Clinton POTUS
    Con HOLD Witney

    Which of those should be the shortest priced, discuss.

    POTUS (subject to the exact terms of the bet). The rules of that contest practically exclude anyone else from winning. Failing that, Corbyn (rumours of result after the votes have been counted have been wrong before, wasn't there a Scottish by election where the loser was 1.01 when the returning officer took the stage?)
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282

    Pulpstar said:

    There look to be three political1 shorties about at the moment

    Corbyn to win
    Trump or Clinton POTUS
    Con HOLD Witney

    Which of those should be the shortest priced, discuss.

    Trump or Clinton POTUS should be the shortest price. No chance of anyone else.

    Edit: Although I've overlooked Ian's point below... Corbyn FTW.
    Yes. They could both stand down, be arrested, or get shot, before polling day. Or the winner runs into one of the same before inaugration. Or a scandal and freak third party landslide. Or something even more unexpected that I haven't got the energy to think of, lying here in the afternoon sun.
  • Options
    May have been mentioned, but Larry Sanders is to fight Witney for Greens:

    https://twitter.com/LarrySandersPPC
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,993

    rcs1000 said:

    One of the reasons I like Jim O'Neill is that he's not Gavyn Davis, who once marched into the office of the Head of Research and demanded that I be fired.

    Was his request granted?
    To be fair, it was Gavyn's assistant who wanted me fired, and I think he only went into Robert Morris's office so he could tell his assistant that he tried to get me fired.

    For the record, no I was not fired. However, I was moved from a cubicle to an office to ensure no repeat of the problem.
  • Options

    May have been mentioned, but Larry Sanders is to fight Witney for Greens:

    https://twitter.com/LarrySandersPPC

    His tweets are pretty much all change.org or 38degrees petitions.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282
    On Betfair you can back trump for POTUS at 3.1 and lay the next president being male at 2.8
  • Options
    PlatoSaid said:

    Matthew Goodwin
    Support for banning the burka in UK (YouGov):
    Remainers 40%
    London 51%
    Nationally 57%
    North 63%
    Conservatives 66%
    Leavers 78%
    Ukippers 84%

    Didn't they poll Lefties?
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Speedy said:

    Alistair said:

    For general USA early voting stuff

    https://twitter.com/electproject / www.electproject.org

    is a great source

    A word of caution, Romney thought he won in 2012 based on the early voting returns.

    With that out of the way, I can't see how Hillary loses this election as long as she is marginally more popular than Trump and a majority of americans are scared as hell of him.
    On Sept 11th I thought (and said on here) that it was Trump's election to lose. But after a week of the worst possible news cycle for Clinton it is clear I underestimated the American people's distaste for Trump.

    Barring, obviously, Clinton collapsing again it would take the debates, and a miracle in those debates, for Trump to win - maybe the oft touted pivot to centre?
  • Options
    619619 Posts: 1,784
    Speedy said:

    Alistair said:

    For general USA early voting stuff

    https://twitter.com/electproject / www.electproject.org

    is a great source

    A word of caution, Romney thought he won in 2012 based on the early voting returns.

    With that out of the way, I can't see how Hillary loses this election as long as she is marginally more popular than Trump and a majority of americans are scared as hell of him.

    Trump has still never lead nationally, and he has to be leading nationally by 2 to win Wisconsin and perhaps Colorado and of course the election.

    A majority of americans think that Trump is going to use nukes, that's how scary he is, a majority of voters actually believes that Trump will bring the apocalypse if elected.

    In public opinion he is like Frankenstein's monster, how can he convince people that he is not a monster in just 40 days ?
    It would probably help if he didn't publically say stuff about how he wants to use nukes. its all self inflicted.
  • Options
    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    edited September 2016
    @CycleFree
    I do wonder where this neglect of the North meme comes from. I visit Leeds regularly, Manchester occasionally, and Liverpool when I have to. All three cities have had massive amounts of money poured into them over the past twenty years or so. OK, Manchester has the advantage of the PIRA's rebuild the city kick start scheme but even so the difference and improvement between each of the city centres now compared to the late eighties is phenomenal.

    Compare and contrast with places in the South. Brighton has barely changed since I first got a place there in the mid-seventies (except there are fewer curry houses). Portsmouth bar one or two builds in still the dump that it always was, Southampton ditto. I could go on with other examples and point out that outside London investment in infrastructure has barely occurred for decades despite a very large growth in population.

    I don't see this neglect of the North bit at all.
  • Options
    Speedy said:

    With that out of the way, I can't see how Hillary loses this election as long as she is marginally more popular than Trump and a majority of americans are scared as hell of him.

    She loses this election if nothing changes except that two voters in every hundred switch sides to Trump between now and November 8th. In fact, it's two voters in every hundred in any one of just three states That's well within the typical margin of swing over that time period.

    She's in the better position, certainly, but it's by no means impregnable.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    One thing I would note that is very intersting is that after and initial levle of resiliance post Sept 11th in the LA Times tracker Clintion is steadily losing support with the 65+ crowd even as she regains support with the under 65s.

    Maybe the oldies will win it for Trump.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,993
    edited September 2016
    IanB2 said:

    On Betfair you can back trump for POTUS at 3.1 and lay the next president being male at 2.8

    There's a small risk of him undergoing a sex change between now and the beginning of January.
  • Options

    @CycleFree
    I do wonder where this neglect of the North meme comes from. I visit Leeds regularly, Manchester occasionally, and Liverpool when I have to. All three cities have had massive amounts of money poured into them over the past twenty years or so. OK, Manchester has the advantage of the PIRA's rebuild the city kick start scheme but even so the difference and improvement between each of the city centres now compared to the late eighties is phenomenal.

    Compare and contrast with places in the South. Brighton has barely changed since I first got a place there in the mid-seventies (except there are fewer curry houses). Portsmouth bar one or two builds in still the dump that it always was, Southampton ditto. I could go on with other examples and point out that outside London investment in infrastructure has barely occurred for decades despite a very large growth in population.

    I don't see this neglect of the North bit at all.

    Avast, Mr Llama! Portsmouth now has the Spinnaker tower and Gunwharf Quays shopping outlet.
  • Options
    Speedy said:

    Alistair said:

    For general USA early voting stuff

    https://twitter.com/electproject / www.electproject.org

    is a great source

    A word of caution, Romney thought he won in 2012 based on the early voting returns.

    With that out of the way, I can't see how Hillary loses this election as long as she is marginally more popular than Trump and a majority of americans are scared as hell of him.

    Trump has still never lead nationally, and he has to be leading nationally by 2 to win Wisconsin and perhaps Colorado and of course the election.

    A majority of americans think that Trump is going to use nukes, that's how scary he is, a majority of voters actually believes that Trump will bring the apocalypse if elected.

    In public opinion he is like Frankenstein's monster, how can he convince people that he is not a monster in just 40 days ?
    Does everyone who think he might use nukes intend to vote against him - or are some more likely to vote for him as a result?

    How could Vote Leave possibly convince the people of the UK that Brexit wouldnt be a disaster in just 40 days?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    edited September 2016
    IanB2 said:

    On Betfair you can back trump for POTUS at 3.1 and lay the next president being male at 2.8

    It is only a 1.17% yield due to those being two seperate (And seperately commissioned markets)

    Backing Trump and backing Hillary yields over 4%.

    All the "next" choices in the event of POTUS are men too (Kaine, Pence, Sanders, Biden) - so both bets have the same disaster risk.

    Warren/Stein is not a 3% chance.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    One of the reasons I like Jim O'Neill is that he's not Gavyn Davis, who once marched into the office of the Head of Research and demanded that I be fired.

    Was his request granted?
    To be fair, it was Gavyn's assistant who wanted me fired, and I think he only went into Robert Morris's office so he could tell his assistant that he tried to get me fired.

    For the record, no I was not fired. However, I was moved from a cubicle to an office to ensure no repeat of the problem.
    I have to ask...what did you do to provoke this ire?
  • Options
    In the lull before the storm of labour's crowning of Jeremy tomorrow I think it is more than probable that Hammond will strenghten the Government's commitment to the Northern Powerhouse and regional devolution but will lay to rest the control to elected, almost certainly, labour mayors. I may be wrong but why would the conservative party hand big roles to the likes of Burnham and Rotherham.

    Just listened to Fysal Islam on Sky comment on his interview with Martin Schultz when he said the interest of German car workers needs to be balanced with the interest of the Poles. This from a German politician blinded by his own Arch Federalists views.

    There can only be one result in this and that is a hard Brexit and then sit back and watch as civil war breaks out between Nations and the unelected Commission. As was said yesterday the EU is beginning to experience problems with trade deals without the UK as a member.

    The idea these pompous destructive Commissioners can stop us entering trade deals negotiations before Brexit is beyond parady. Junckers and Schultz threats will only anger the UK and make us more determined to leave the whole anti democratic EU charade behind as we embrace the World and look over our shoulder at the inevitable demise of the EU.
  • Options

    May have been mentioned, but Larry Sanders is to fight Witney for Greens:

    https://twitter.com/LarrySandersPPC

    Seems to me Greens in second place might not be unthinkable?
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282
    edited September 2016

    @CycleFree
    I do wonder where this neglect of the North meme comes from. I visit Leeds regularly, Manchester occasionally, and Liverpool when I have to. All three cities have had massive amounts of money poured into them over the past twenty years or so. OK, Manchester has the advantage of the PIRA's rebuild the city kick start scheme but even so the difference and improvement between each of the city centres now compared to the late eighties is phenomenal.

    Compare and contrast with places in the South. Brighton has barely changed since I first got a place there in the mid-seventies (except there are fewer curry houses). Portsmouth bar one or two builds in still the dump that it always was, Southampton ditto. I could go on with other examples and point out that outside London investment in infrastructure has barely occurred for decades despite a very large growth in population.

    I don't see this neglect of the North bit at all.

    Avast, Mr Llama! Portsmouth now has the Spinnaker tower and Gunwharf Quays shopping outlet.
    Probably because hard socio-economic data - land/property values, unemployment rates, average incomes - don't align with Mr Llama's portrait of a booming north looking down at the economic wasteland of Brighton?
  • Options

    Pulpstar said:

    There look to be three political1 shorties about at the moment

    Corbyn to win
    Trump or Clinton POTUS
    Con HOLD Witney

    Which of those should be the shortest priced, discuss.

    POTUS (subject to the exact terms of the bet). The rules of that contest practically exclude anyone else from winning. Failing that, Corbyn (rumours of result after the votes have been counted have been wrong before, wasn't there a Scottish by election where the loser was 1.01 when the returning officer took the stage?)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunfermline_and_West_Fife_by-election,_2006
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282

    May have been mentioned, but Larry Sanders is to fight Witney for Greens:

    https://twitter.com/LarrySandersPPC

    Seems to me Greens in second place might not be unthinkable?
    The Corbys and the Greenies are after the same people
  • Options
    IanB2 said:

    May have been mentioned, but Larry Sanders is to fight Witney for Greens:

    https://twitter.com/LarrySandersPPC

    Seems to me Greens in second place might not be unthinkable?
    The Corbys and the Greenies are after the same people
    Didn't someone on here say that the Lab candidate is rabidly anti-Corbyn?
This discussion has been closed.