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  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    Speedy said:

    With that out of the way, I can't see how Hillary loses this election as long as she is marginally more popular than Trump and a majority of americans are scared as hell of him.

    She loses this election if nothing changes except that two voters in every hundred switch sides to Trump between now and November 8th. In fact, it's two voters in every hundred in any one of just three states That's well within the typical margin of swing over that time period.

    She's in the better position, certainly, but it's by no means impregnable.
    There are more than one reasons why I believe Trump's chances are slim.

    One of course is that he is steadily more unpopular and scarier.
    The other is this:

    https://twitter.com/Redistrict/status/779083856146202630

    Trump's camp has failed to register a single white voter, and there are 49 million unregistered white voters all of whom would have given Trump the edge if they register and vote,
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited September 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    IanB2 said:

    On Betfair you can back trump for POTUS at 3.1 and lay the next president being male at 2.8

    It is only a 1.17% yield due to those being two seperate (And seperately commissioned markets)

    Backing Trump and backing Hillary yields over 4%.

    All the "next" choices in the event of POTUS are men too (Kaine, Pence, Sanders, Biden) - so both bets have the same disaster risk.

    Warren/Stein is not a 3% chance.
    Don't forget Michelle.

    It would be incorrect to say she doesn't have a chance.

    I'd probably put 3 zero's after the decimal point, though.
  • @CycleFree
    I do wonder where this neglect of the North meme comes from. I visit Leeds regularly, Manchester occasionally, and Liverpool when I have to. All three cities have had massive amounts of money poured into them over the past twenty years or so. OK, Manchester has the advantage of the PIRA's rebuild the city kick start scheme but even so the difference and improvement between each of the city centres now compared to the late eighties is phenomenal.

    Compare and contrast with places in the South. Brighton has barely changed since I first got a place there in the mid-seventies (except there are fewer curry houses). Portsmouth bar one or two builds in still the dump that it always was, Southampton ditto. I could go on with other examples and point out that outside London investment in infrastructure has barely occurred for decades despite a very large growth in population.

    I don't see this neglect of the North bit at all.

    I played non-league football around Manchester, in the old towns in the hinterland. Your Leighs, your Pendletons and your Ashtons. That's what people are talking about, not the centres.
  • Osborne was the only politician to come up with something other than pumping money into these areas, meh, shame.

    (Just remembered I've been to Birkenhead -_- ... )
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited September 2016
    619 said:

    Speedy said:

    Alistair said:

    For general USA early voting stuff

    https://twitter.com/electproject / www.electproject.org

    is a great source

    A word of caution, Romney thought he won in 2012 based on the early voting returns.

    With that out of the way, I can't see how Hillary loses this election as long as she is marginally more popular than Trump and a majority of americans are scared as hell of him.

    Trump has still never lead nationally, and he has to be leading nationally by 2 to win Wisconsin and perhaps Colorado and of course the election.

    A majority of americans think that Trump is going to use nukes, that's how scary he is, a majority of voters actually believes that Trump will bring the apocalypse if elected.

    In public opinion he is like Frankenstein's monster, how can he convince people that he is not a monster in just 40 days ?
    It would probably help if he didn't publically say stuff about how he wants to use nukes. its all self inflicted.
    He is probably going for the endtime Christian vote, for whom armaggedon is a good thing...
  • Osborne was the only politician to come up with something other than pumping money into these areas, meh, shame.

    (Just remembered I've been to Birkenhead -_- ... )

    I was in both West Kirby and New Brighton last Friday :)
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,092
    The Government's strategy of lulling our negotiating counter-party into a false sense of complacency by projecting the illusion that we are a bunch of amateurs without a plan that cannot even agree amongst ourselves where or when to start, seems to be working a treat...
  • @CycleFree
    I do wonder where this neglect of the North meme comes from. I visit Leeds regularly, Manchester occasionally, and Liverpool when I have to. All three cities have had massive amounts of money poured into them over the past twenty years or so. OK, Manchester has the advantage of the PIRA's rebuild the city kick start scheme but even so the difference and improvement between each of the city centres now compared to the late eighties is phenomenal.

    Compare and contrast with places in the South. Brighton has barely changed since I first got a place there in the mid-seventies (except there are fewer curry houses). Portsmouth bar one or two builds in still the dump that it always was, Southampton ditto. I could go on with other examples and point out that outside London investment in infrastructure has barely occurred for decades despite a very large growth in population.

    I don't see this neglect of the North bit at all.

    I played non-league football around Manchester, in the old towns in the hinterland. Your Leighs, your Pendletons and your Ashtons. That's what people are talking about, not the centres.
    I've been to Ashton on the tram, back in February :)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Will the parliamentary Labour Party take any notice of the extent of the thrashing Smith is about to be administered ?
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    @CycleFree
    I do wonder where this neglect of the North meme comes from. I visit Leeds regularly, Manchester occasionally, and Liverpool when I have to. All three cities have had massive amounts of money poured into them over the past twenty years or so. OK, Manchester has the advantage of the PIRA's rebuild the city kick start scheme but even so the difference and improvement between each of the city centres now compared to the late eighties is phenomenal.

    Compare and contrast with places in the South. Brighton has barely changed since I first got a place there in the mid-seventies (except there are fewer curry houses). Portsmouth bar one or two builds in still the dump that it always was, Southampton ditto. I could go on with other examples and point out that outside London investment in infrastructure has barely occurred for decades despite a very large growth in population.

    I don't see this neglect of the North bit at all.

    I disagree, Manchester city centre is, indeed, humming, but you don't have to go very far from it to find lots of very poorly-off places and people. The same is true of the town centres around Manchester. I fancy myself somewhat familiar with Bolton, as my father lived there until he passed away at the start of the year, and in the last third of last year I was spending almost as much time there as at home in the US. Bolton town centre doesn't appear to be too badly off, but most of the town is clearly very run-down and poor. In terms of infrastructure, Greater Manchester's rail provision is a joke. Rush-hour trains are formed of two- or if you're lucky four- car clapped out diesel trains, packed to the rafters, where London has 8 or 12 car electric trains. True many of the Manchester lines are being electrified, but they're not going to get new rolling stock, merely hand-me-downs "cascaded" from the SE.

    When I last lived in SE England, it was in a pretty deprived area (Medway) but even there got far more than the North does.
  • IanB2 said:

    @CycleFree
    I do wonder where this neglect of the North meme comes from. I visit Leeds regularly, Manchester occasionally, and Liverpool when I have to. All three cities have had massive amounts of money poured into them over the past twenty years or so. OK, Manchester has the advantage of the PIRA's rebuild the city kick start scheme but even so the difference and improvement between each of the city centres now compared to the late eighties is phenomenal.

    Compare and contrast with places in the South. Brighton has barely changed since I first got a place there in the mid-seventies (except there are fewer curry houses). Portsmouth bar one or two builds in still the dump that it always was, Southampton ditto. I could go on with other examples and point out that outside London investment in infrastructure has barely occurred for decades despite a very large growth in population.

    I don't see this neglect of the North bit at all.

    Avast, Mr Llama! Portsmouth now has the Spinnaker tower and Gunwharf Quays shopping outlet.
    Probably because hard socio-economic data - land/property values, unemployment rates, average incomes - don't align with Mr Llama's portrait of a booming north looking down at the economic wasteland of Brighton?
    Forgot - even Brighton has a new tower/observation platform thingy - but they were only just starting on it last October when I last visited.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    IanB2 said:

    @CycleFree
    I do wonder where this neglect of the North meme comes from. I visit Leeds regularly, Manchester occasionally, and Liverpool when I have to. All three cities have had massive amounts of money poured into them over the past twenty years or so. OK, Manchester has the advantage of the PIRA's rebuild the city kick start scheme but even so the difference and improvement between each of the city centres now compared to the late eighties is phenomenal.

    Compare and contrast with places in the South. Brighton has barely changed since I first got a place there in the mid-seventies (except there are fewer curry houses). Portsmouth bar one or two builds in still the dump that it always was, Southampton ditto. I could go on with other examples and point out that outside London investment in infrastructure has barely occurred for decades despite a very large growth in population.

    I don't see this neglect of the North bit at all.

    Avast, Mr Llama! Portsmouth now has the Spinnaker tower and Gunwharf Quays shopping outlet.
    Probably because hard socio-economic data - land/property values, unemployment rates, average incomes - don't align with Mr Llama's portrait of a booming north looking down at the economic wasteland of Brighton?
    Sorry, Mr. B2, you seem to be trying to shift the argument. I was talking about the investment in the North compared to investment in the South outside London. I was doing so in reply to Mrs. Free's claim that the North has been neglected.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,092

    @CycleFree
    I do wonder where this neglect of the North meme comes from. I visit Leeds regularly, Manchester occasionally, and Liverpool when I have to. All three cities have had massive amounts of money poured into them over the past twenty years or so. OK, Manchester has the advantage of the PIRA's rebuild the city kick start scheme but even so the difference and improvement between each of the city centres now compared to the late eighties is phenomenal.

    Compare and contrast with places in the South. Brighton has barely changed since I first got a place there in the mid-seventies (except there are fewer curry houses). Portsmouth bar one or two builds in still the dump that it always was, Southampton ditto. I could go on with other examples and point out that outside London investment in infrastructure has barely occurred for decades despite a very large growth in population.

    I don't see this neglect of the North bit at all.

    I played non-league football around Manchester, in the old towns in the hinterland. Your Leighs, your Pendletons and your Ashtons. That's what people are talking about, not the centres.
    I've been to Ashton on the tram, back in February :)
    Now there is proof that you are full of BS, Sunil my friend. There is no way you can go from Ilford to Ashton by tram.
  • PaulyPauly Posts: 897
    Local election results are meaningless so long as EU migrants are allowed to vote. I'm not worried.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,092

    IanB2 said:

    @CycleFree
    I do wonder where this neglect of the North meme comes from. I visit Leeds regularly, Manchester occasionally, and Liverpool when I have to. All three cities have had massive amounts of money poured into them over the past twenty years or so. OK, Manchester has the advantage of the PIRA's rebuild the city kick start scheme but even so the difference and improvement between each of the city centres now compared to the late eighties is phenomenal.

    Compare and contrast with places in the South. Brighton has barely changed since I first got a place there in the mid-seventies (except there are fewer curry houses). Portsmouth bar one or two builds in still the dump that it always was, Southampton ditto. I could go on with other examples and point out that outside London investment in infrastructure has barely occurred for decades despite a very large growth in population.

    I don't see this neglect of the North bit at all.

    Avast, Mr Llama! Portsmouth now has the Spinnaker tower and Gunwharf Quays shopping outlet.
    Probably because hard socio-economic data - land/property values, unemployment rates, average incomes - don't align with Mr Llama's portrait of a booming north looking down at the economic wasteland of Brighton?
    Sorry, Mr. B2, you seem to be trying to shift the argument. I was talking about the investment in the North compared to investment in the South outside London. I was doing so in reply to Mrs. Free's claim that the North has been neglected.
    So it clearly takes more than a few glitzy new buildings to get a city's economy going. Hence Osborne's focus on the politics, governance and local financial settlement.
  • rpjs said:

    @CycleFree
    I do wonder where this neglect of the North meme comes from. I visit Leeds regularly, Manchester occasionally, and Liverpool when I have to. All three cities have had massive amounts of money poured into them over the past twenty years or so. OK, Manchester has the advantage of the PIRA's rebuild the city kick start scheme but even so the difference and improvement between each of the city centres now compared to the late eighties is phenomenal.

    Compare and contrast with places in the South. Brighton has barely changed since I first got a place there in the mid-seventies (except there are fewer curry houses). Portsmouth bar one or two builds in still the dump that it always was, Southampton ditto. I could go on with other examples and point out that outside London investment in infrastructure has barely occurred for decades despite a very large growth in population.

    I don't see this neglect of the North bit at all.

    I disagree, Manchester city centre is, indeed, humming, but you don't have to go very far from it to find lots of very poorly-off places and people. The same is true of the town centres around Manchester. I fancy myself somewhat familiar with Bolton, as my father lived there until he passed away at the start of the year, and in the last third of last year I was spending almost as much time there as at home in the US. Bolton town centre doesn't appear to be too badly off, but most of the town is clearly very run-down and poor. In terms of infrastructure, Greater Manchester's rail provision is a joke. Rush-hour trains are formed of two- or if you're lucky four- car clapped out diesel trains, packed to the rafters, where London has 8 or 12 car electric trains. True many of the Manchester lines are being electrified, but they're not going to get new rolling stock, merely hand-me-downs "cascaded" from the SE.

    When I last lived in SE England, it was in a pretty deprived area (Medway) but even there got far more than the North does.
    Greater Manchester has seven tram lines serving 93 stations. Second largest "metro" system in the UK after London. I've been to Ashton and Bury, yet to do the Rochdale, East Didsbury, Airport, Altrincham and Eccles branches.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited September 2016
    IanB2 said:

    @CycleFree
    I do wonder where this neglect of the North meme comes from. I visit Leeds regularly, Manchester occasionally, and Liverpool when I have to. All three cities have had massive amounts of money poured into them over the past twenty years or so. OK, Manchester has the advantage of the PIRA's rebuild the city kick start scheme but even so the difference and improvement between each of the city centres now compared to the late eighties is phenomenal.

    Compare and contrast with places in the South. Brighton has barely changed since I first got a place there in the mid-seventies (except there are fewer curry houses). Portsmouth bar one or two builds in still the dump that it always was, Southampton ditto. I could go on with other examples and point out that outside London investment in infrastructure has barely occurred for decades despite a very large growth in population.

    I don't see this neglect of the North bit at all.

    Avast, Mr Llama! Portsmouth now has the Spinnaker tower and Gunwharf Quays shopping outlet.
    Probably because hard socio-economic data - land/property values, unemployment rates, average incomes - don't align with Mr Llama's portrait of a booming north looking down at the economic wasteland of Brighton?
    I think North/South as a divide is not terribly accurate, though it probably was in the Eighties.

    It is more a division between post manufacturing towns and high value service industries. As such Luton is in the South but culturally more in the North, as is Pompey; while parts of Manchester or Liverpool One are more like the South while geographically in the North.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,774
    Pauly said:

    Local election results are meaningless so long as EU migrants are allowed to vote. I'm not worried.

    I suspect the number of EU immigrants voting in these byelections can be counted on the fingers of one hand.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "Anger as Churchill's home is turned into Hitler HQ for Transformers 5
    War veterans are horrified that Blenheim Palace has been draped in swastika flags for Michael Bay’s latest film"

    https://www.theguardian.com/film/2016/sep/23/anger-churchill-home-turned-hitler-hq-transformers-5-michael-bay-swastika-flags
  • Pulpstar said:

    Will the parliamentary Labour Party take any notice of the extent of the thrashing Smith is about to be administered ?

    Yes.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    rpjs said:

    @CycleFree
    I do wonder where this neglect of the North meme comes from. I visit Leeds regularly, Manchester occasionally, and Liverpool when I have to. All three cities have had massive amounts of money poured into them over the past twenty years or so. OK, Manchester has the advantage of the PIRA's rebuild the city kick start scheme but even so the difference and improvement between each of the city centres now compared to the late eighties is phenomenal.

    Compare and contrast with places in the South. Brighton has barely changed since I first got a place there in the mid-seventies (except there are fewer curry houses). Portsmouth bar one or two builds in still the dump that it always was, Southampton ditto. I could go on with other examples and point out that outside London investment in infrastructure has barely occurred for decades despite a very large growth in population.

    I don't see this neglect of the North bit at all.

    I disagree, Manchester city centre is, indeed, humming, but you don't have to go very far from it to find lots of very poorly-off places and people. The same is true of the town centres around Manchester. I fancy myself somewhat familiar with Bolton, as my father lived there until he passed away at the start of the year, and in the last third of last year I was spending almost as much time there as at home in the US. Bolton town centre doesn't appear to be too badly off, but most of the town is clearly very run-down and poor. In terms of infrastructure, Greater Manchester's rail provision is a joke. Rush-hour trains are formed of two- or if you're lucky four- car clapped out diesel trains, packed to the rafters, where London has 8 or 12 car electric trains. True many of the Manchester lines are being electrified, but they're not going to get new rolling stock, merely hand-me-downs "cascaded" from the SE.

    When I last lived in SE England, it was in a pretty deprived area (Medway) but even there got far more than the North does.
    Greater Manchester has seven tram lines serving 93 stations. Second largest "metro" system in the UK after London. I've been to Ashton and Bury, yet to do the Rochdale, East Didsbury, Airport, Altrincham and Eccles branches.
    A light-rail system is no match for a proper heavy-rail system. There's a reason TfL has never expended its trams beyond the suburbs.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    IanB2 said:

    @CycleFree
    I do wonder where this neglect of the North meme comes from. I visit Leeds regularly, Manchester occasionally, and Liverpool when I have to. All three cities have had massive amounts of money poured into them over the past twenty years or so. OK, Manchester has the advantage of the PIRA's rebuild the city kick start scheme but even so the difference and improvement between each of the city centres now compared to the late eighties is phenomenal.

    Compare and contrast with places in the South. Brighton has barely changed since I first got a place there in the mid-seventies (except there are fewer curry houses). Portsmouth bar one or two builds in still the dump that it always was, Southampton ditto. I could go on with other examples and point out that outside London investment in infrastructure has barely occurred for decades despite a very large growth in population.

    I don't see this neglect of the North bit at all.

    Avast, Mr Llama! Portsmouth now has the Spinnaker tower and Gunwharf Quays shopping outlet.
    Probably because hard socio-economic data - land/property values, unemployment rates, average incomes - don't align with Mr Llama's portrait of a booming north looking down at the economic wasteland of Brighton?
    Forgot - even Brighton has a new tower/observation platform thingy - but they were only just starting on it last October when I last visited.
    I went up the Portsmouth tower a few months ago and was a bit disappointed by it. Hoping to go up the Brighton tower before long.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,922
    edited September 2016
    IanB2 said:

    @CycleFree
    I do wonder where this neglect of the North meme comes from. I visit Leeds regularly, Manchester occasionally, and Liverpool when I have to. All three cities have had massive amounts of money poured into them over the past twenty years or so. OK, Manchester has the advantage of the PIRA's rebuild the city kick start scheme but even so the difference and improvement between each of the city centres now compared to the late eighties is phenomenal.

    Compare and contrast with places in the South. Brighton has barely changed since I first got a place there in the mid-seventies (except there are fewer curry houses). Portsmouth bar one or two builds in still the dump that it always was, Southampton ditto. I could go on with other examples and point out that outside London investment in infrastructure has barely occurred for decades despite a very large growth in population.

    I don't see this neglect of the North bit at all.

    I played non-league football around Manchester, in the old towns in the hinterland. Your Leighs, your Pendletons and your Ashtons. That's what people are talking about, not the centres.
    I've been to Ashton on the tram, back in February :)
    Now there is proof that you are full of BS, Sunil my friend. There is no way you can go from Ilford to Ashton by tram.
    You do know I work in the Midlands during the week, right?

    Was a Friday - I did Brum to Crewe on London Midland Trains, then Virgin trains to Manchester, then tram to Ashton and back to Manchester, then Arriva Trains to Crewe, changed there to London Midland train to Birmingham. Then Virgin Trains to London Euston, then Tube to Gants Hill.

    There!
  • In the lull before the storm of labour's crowning of Jeremy tomorrow I think it is more than probable that Hammond will strenghten the Government's commitment to the Northern Powerhouse and regional devolution but will lay to rest the control to elected, almost certainly, labour mayors. I may be wrong but why would the conservative party hand big roles to the likes of Burnham and Rotherham.

    Just listened to Fysal Islam on Sky comment on his interview with Martin Schultz when he said the interest of German car workers needs to be balanced with the interest of the Poles. This from a German politician blinded by his own Arch Federalists views.

    There can only be one result in this and that is a hard Brexit and then sit back and watch as civil war breaks out between Nations and the unelected Commission. As was said yesterday the EU is beginning to experience problems with trade deals without the UK as a member.

    The idea these pompous destructive Commissioners can stop us entering trade deals negotiations before Brexit is beyond parady. Junckers and Schultz threats will only anger the UK and make us more determined to leave the whole anti democratic EU charade behind as we embrace the World and look over our shoulder at the inevitable demise of the EU.

    Of course, with a load of Labour Mayors in Northern cities with devolved powers there will be an open goal for tories to point out how crap they are and say this is what a labour government will bring you, as they did with NHS Wales in the 2015 election.
  • IanB2 said:

    May have been mentioned, but Larry Sanders is to fight Witney for Greens:

    https://twitter.com/LarrySandersPPC

    Seems to me Greens in second place might not be unthinkable?
    The Corbys and the Greenies are after the same people
    I would have thought Witney was short on trots but have a fair few guardianista types who will vote Green with a decent candidate
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    @rpjs

    "... Manchester city centre is, indeed, humming, but you don't have to go very far from it to find lots of very poorly-off places and people. ..."

    But that is true of any city. You can find run down places with half a mile of the centre of London. That is not evidence of neglect, just evidence of what a city is, pretty much, the world over.

    As for Manchester's transport problems, I don't doubt you are correct in your description. I doubt that the over-crowding is any worse than down here. I came back from Cambridge a couple of weeks ago on a Sunday afternoon and it was standing room only.
  • rpjs said:

    rpjs said:

    @CycleFree
    I do wonder where this neglect of the North meme comes from. I visit Leeds regularly, Manchester occasionally, and Liverpool when I have to. All three cities have had massive amounts of money poured into them over the past twenty years or so. OK, Manchester has the advantage of the PIRA's rebuild the city kick start scheme but even so the difference and improvement between each of the city centres now compared to the late eighties is phenomenal.

    Compare and contrast with places in the South. Brighton has barely changed since I first got a place there in the mid-seventies (except there are fewer curry houses). Portsmouth bar one or two builds in still the dump that it always was, Southampton ditto. I could go on with other examples and point out that outside London investment in infrastructure has barely occurred for decades despite a very large growth in population.

    I don't see this neglect of the North bit at all.

    I disagree, Manchester city centre is, indeed, humming, but you don't have to go very far from it to find lots of very poorly-off places and people. The same is true of the town centres around Manchester. I fancy myself somewhat familiar with Bolton, as my father lived there until he passed away at the start of the year, and in the last third of last year I was spending almost as much time there as at home in the US. Bolton town centre doesn't appear to be too badly off, but most of the town is clearly very run-down and poor. In terms of infrastructure, Greater Manchester's rail provision is a joke. Rush-hour trains are formed of two- or if you're lucky four- car clapped out diesel trains, packed to the rafters, where London has 8 or 12 car electric trains. True many of the Manchester lines are being electrified, but they're not going to get new rolling stock, merely hand-me-downs "cascaded" from the SE.

    When I last lived in SE England, it was in a pretty deprived area (Medway) but even there got far more than the North does.
    Greater Manchester has seven tram lines serving 93 stations. Second largest "metro" system in the UK after London. I've been to Ashton and Bury, yet to do the Rochdale, East Didsbury, Airport, Altrincham and Eccles branches.
    A light-rail system is no match for a proper heavy-rail system. There's a reason TfL has never expended its trams beyond the suburbs.
    True, though I did see some double-header trams at Bury.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,092

    IanB2 said:

    @CycleFree
    I do wonder where this neglect of the North meme comes from. I visit Leeds regularly, Manchester occasionally, and Liverpool when I have to. All three cities have had massive amounts of money poured into them over the past twenty years or so. OK, Manchester has the advantage of the PIRA's rebuild the city kick start scheme but even so the difference and improvement between each of the city centres now compared to the late eighties is phenomenal.

    Compare and contrast with places in the South. Brighton has barely changed since I first got a place there in the mid-seventies (except there are fewer curry houses). Portsmouth bar one or two builds in still the dump that it always was, Southampton ditto. I could go on with other examples and point out that outside London investment in infrastructure has barely occurred for decades despite a very large growth in population.

    I don't see this neglect of the North bit at all.

    I played non-league football around Manchester, in the old towns in the hinterland. Your Leighs, your Pendletons and your Ashtons. That's what people are talking about, not the centres.
    I've been to Ashton on the tram, back in February :)
    Now there is proof that you are full of BS, Sunil my friend. There is no way you can go from Ilford to Ashton by tram.
    You do know I work in the Midlands during the week, right?

    Was a Friday - I did Brum to Crewe on London Midland Trains, then Virgin trains to Manchester, then tram to Ashton and back to Manchester, then Arriva Trains to Crewe, changed there to London Midland train to Birmingham. Then Virgin Trains to London Euston, then Tube to Gants Hill.

    There!
    That is what you get if you go drinking on a Friday then try to make your way back home, I guess?
  • Wigan town centre. Wow.
  • @CycleFree
    I do wonder where this neglect of the North meme comes from. I visit Leeds regularly, Manchester occasionally, and Liverpool when I have to. All three cities have had massive amounts of money poured into them over the past twenty years or so. OK, Manchester has the advantage of the PIRA's rebuild the city kick start scheme but even so the difference and improvement between each of the city centres now compared to the late eighties is phenomenal.

    Compare and contrast with places in the South. Brighton has barely changed since I first got a place there in the mid-seventies (except there are fewer curry houses). Portsmouth bar one or two builds in still the dump that it always was, Southampton ditto. I could go on with other examples and point out that outside London investment in infrastructure has barely occurred for decades despite a very large growth in population.

    I don't see this neglect of the North bit at all.

    I played non-league football around Manchester, in the old towns in the hinterland. Your Leighs, your Pendletons and your Ashtons. That's what people are talking about, not the centres.
    Oldham, where even the main Railway Station is named after a disease......
  • AndyJS said:

    IanB2 said:

    @CycleFree
    I do wonder where this neglect of the North meme comes from. I visit Leeds regularly, Manchester occasionally, and Liverpool when I have to. All three cities have had massive amounts of money poured into them over the past twenty years or so. OK, Manchester has the advantage of the PIRA's rebuild the city kick start scheme but even so the difference and improvement between each of the city centres now compared to the late eighties is phenomenal.

    Compare and contrast with places in the South. Brighton has barely changed since I first got a place there in the mid-seventies (except there are fewer curry houses). Portsmouth bar one or two builds in still the dump that it always was, Southampton ditto. I could go on with other examples and point out that outside London investment in infrastructure has barely occurred for decades despite a very large growth in population.

    I don't see this neglect of the North bit at all.

    Avast, Mr Llama! Portsmouth now has the Spinnaker tower and Gunwharf Quays shopping outlet.
    Probably because hard socio-economic data - land/property values, unemployment rates, average incomes - don't align with Mr Llama's portrait of a booming north looking down at the economic wasteland of Brighton?
    Forgot - even Brighton has a new tower/observation platform thingy - but they were only just starting on it last October when I last visited.
    I went up the Portsmouth tower a few months ago and was a bit disappointed by it. Hoping to go up the Brighton tower before long.
    I thought it was rather good, could see a huge swathe of the Isle of Wight, plenty of warships in the dock, and Southampton visible right on the western horizon.
  • @CycleFree
    I do wonder where this neglect of the North meme comes from. I visit Leeds regularly, Manchester occasionally, and Liverpool when I have to. All three cities have had massive amounts of money poured into them over the past twenty years or so. OK, Manchester has the advantage of the PIRA's rebuild the city kick start scheme but even so the difference and improvement between each of the city centres now compared to the late eighties is phenomenal.

    Compare and contrast with places in the South. Brighton has barely changed since I first got a place there in the mid-seventies (except there are fewer curry houses). Portsmouth bar one or two builds in still the dump that it always was, Southampton ditto. I could go on with other examples and point out that outside London investment in infrastructure has barely occurred for decades despite a very large growth in population.

    I don't see this neglect of the North bit at all.

    I played non-league football around Manchester, in the old towns in the hinterland. Your Leighs, your Pendletons and your Ashtons. That's what people are talking about, not the centres.
    Oldham, where even the main Railway Station is named after a disease......
    It's now a tram station on the Rochdale branch.
  • IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    @CycleFree
    I do wonder where this neglect of the North meme comes from. I visit Leeds regularly, Manchester occasionally, and Liverpool when I have to. All three cities have had massive amounts of money poured into them over the past twenty years or so. OK, Manchester has the advantage of the PIRA's rebuild the city kick start scheme but even so the difference and improvement between each of the city centres now compared to the late eighties is phenomenal.

    Compare and contrast with places in the South. Brighton has barely changed since I first got a place there in the mid-seventies (except there are fewer curry houses). Portsmouth bar one or two builds in still the dump that it always was, Southampton ditto. I could go on with other examples and point out that outside London investment in infrastructure has barely occurred for decades despite a very large growth in population.

    I don't see this neglect of the North bit at all.

    I played non-league football around Manchester, in the old towns in the hinterland. Your Leighs, your Pendletons and your Ashtons. That's what people are talking about, not the centres.
    I've been to Ashton on the tram, back in February :)
    Now there is proof that you are full of BS, Sunil my friend. There is no way you can go from Ilford to Ashton by tram.
    You do know I work in the Midlands during the week, right?

    Was a Friday - I did Brum to Crewe on London Midland Trains, then Virgin trains to Manchester, then tram to Ashton and back to Manchester, then Arriva Trains to Crewe, changed there to London Midland train to Birmingham. Then Virgin Trains to London Euston, then Tube to Gants Hill.

    There!
    That is what you get if you go drinking on a Friday then try to make your way back home, I guess?
    Except that I don't drink!
  • AndyJS said:

    IanB2 said:

    @CycleFree
    I do wonder where this neglect of the North meme comes from. I visit Leeds regularly, Manchester occasionally, and Liverpool when I have to. All three cities have had massive amounts of money poured into them over the past twenty years or so. OK, Manchester has the advantage of the PIRA's rebuild the city kick start scheme but even so the difference and improvement between each of the city centres now compared to the late eighties is phenomenal.

    Compare and contrast with places in the South. Brighton has barely changed since I first got a place there in the mid-seventies (except there are fewer curry houses). Portsmouth bar one or two builds in still the dump that it always was, Southampton ditto. I could go on with other examples and point out that outside London investment in infrastructure has barely occurred for decades despite a very large growth in population.

    I don't see this neglect of the North bit at all.

    Avast, Mr Llama! Portsmouth now has the Spinnaker tower and Gunwharf Quays shopping outlet.
    Probably because hard socio-economic data - land/property values, unemployment rates, average incomes - don't align with Mr Llama's portrait of a booming north looking down at the economic wasteland of Brighton?
    Forgot - even Brighton has a new tower/observation platform thingy - but they were only just starting on it last October when I last visited.
    I went up the Portsmouth tower a few months ago and was a bit disappointed by it. Hoping to go up the Brighton tower before long.
    I thought it was rather good, could see a huge swathe of the Isle of Wight, plenty of warships in the dock, and Southampton visible right on the western horizon.
    You must have been dreaming. We don't have plenty of warships!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,092

    AndyJS said:

    IanB2 said:

    @CycleFree
    I do wonder where this neglect of the North meme comes from. I visit Leeds regularly, Manchester occasionally, and Liverpool when I have to. All three cities have had massive amounts of money poured into them over the past twenty years or so. OK, Manchester has the advantage of the PIRA's rebuild the city kick start scheme but even so the difference and improvement between each of the city centres now compared to the late eighties is phenomenal.

    Compare and contrast with places in the South. Brighton has barely changed since I first got a place there in the mid-seventies (except there are fewer curry houses). Portsmouth bar one or two builds in still the dump that it always was, Southampton ditto. I could go on with other examples and point out that outside London investment in infrastructure has barely occurred for decades despite a very large growth in population.

    I don't see this neglect of the North bit at all.

    Avast, Mr Llama! Portsmouth now has the Spinnaker tower and Gunwharf Quays shopping outlet.
    Probably because hard socio-economic data - land/property values, unemployment rates, average incomes - don't align with Mr Llama's portrait of a booming north looking down at the economic wasteland of Brighton?
    Forgot - even Brighton has a new tower/observation platform thingy - but they were only just starting on it last October when I last visited.
    I went up the Portsmouth tower a few months ago and was a bit disappointed by it. Hoping to go up the Brighton tower before long.
    I thought it was rather good, could see a huge swathe of the Isle of Wight, plenty of warships in the dock, and Southampton visible right on the western horizon.
    Given that it isn't actually that high, I thought that the view was fairly impressive; admittedly I chose a crystal clear day. It was just a shame that it has been given the 'Shard' treatment with staff everywhere trying to "upsell the experience" by offering you your own photo and trying to market various tat on the back of the experience.
  • Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632
    edited September 2016

    @rpjs

    "... Manchester city centre is, indeed, humming, but you don't have to go very far from it to find lots of very poorly-off places and people. ..."

    But that is true of any city. You can find run down places with half a mile of the centre of London. That is not evidence of neglect, just evidence of what a city is, pretty much, the world over.

    As for Manchester's transport problems, I don't doubt you are correct in your description. I doubt that the over-crowding is any worse than down here. I came back from Cambridge a couple of weeks ago on a Sunday afternoon and it was standing room only.

    Commuting large scale in northern cities like Manchester is a very recent phenomenon as until the 80s /90s people worked in local factories and mines (eg Manchester (Salford) had an urban coal mine at Agecroft).

    Northern cities were also far more succesful than London at laying the place waste to build urban motorways. So most of the few commuters drove.

    By the early 80s the trains were knackered and barely used. Those cheap diesel railbuses (pacers) and sprinters are what saved most of the northern city suburban lines from closure in the 80s.
  • AndyJS said:

    IanB2 said:

    @CycleFree
    I do wonder where this neglect of the North meme comes from. I visit Leeds regularly, Manchester occasionally, and Liverpool when I have to. All three cities have had massive amounts of money poured into them over the past twenty years or so. OK, Manchester has the advantage of the PIRA's rebuild the city kick start scheme but even so the difference and improvement between each of the city centres now compared to the late eighties is phenomenal.

    Compare and contrast with places in the South. Brighton has barely changed since I first got a place there in the mid-seventies (except there are fewer curry houses). Portsmouth bar one or two builds in still the dump that it always was, Southampton ditto. I could go on with other examples and point out that outside London investment in infrastructure has barely occurred for decades despite a very large growth in population.

    I don't see this neglect of the North bit at all.

    Avast, Mr Llama! Portsmouth now has the Spinnaker tower and Gunwharf Quays shopping outlet.
    Probably because hard socio-economic data - land/property values, unemployment rates, average incomes - don't align with Mr Llama's portrait of a booming north looking down at the economic wasteland of Brighton?
    Forgot - even Brighton has a new tower/observation platform thingy - but they were only just starting on it last October when I last visited.
    I went up the Portsmouth tower a few months ago and was a bit disappointed by it. Hoping to go up the Brighton tower before long.
    I thought it was rather good, could see a huge swathe of the Isle of Wight, plenty of warships in the dock, and Southampton visible right on the western horizon.
    You must have been dreaming. We don't have plenty of warships!
    I'm sure I didn't hallucinate HMS Illustrious! And there's your Warrior, Victory and the Monitor thingy.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    A heart-warming tale from the Telegraph.

    There is apparently a start-up motor manufacturer in Coventry that has designed and build self-driving vehicles for use over short distances. It sources all its components within a thirty mile radius of its factory. It would appear that it now moving from trials to sales and has signed initial contracts worth £15m with Singapore, Australia and Texas (not an EU country or a trade deal necessary).

    Isn't that good news.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/private-equity-investment/self-driving-pods/?WT.mc_id=tmgspk_plrprt_1492_AmmgVgBTGh2Z&utm_source=tmgspk&utm_medium=plrprt&utm_content=1492&utm_campaign=tmgspk_plrprt_1492_AmmgVgBTGh2Z&plr=1#!/
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited September 2016

    Speedy said:

    Alistair said:

    For general USA early voting stuff

    https://twitter.com/electproject / www.electproject.org

    is a great source

    A word of caution, Romney thought he won in 2012 based on the early voting returns.

    With that out of the way, I can't see how Hillary loses this election as long as she is marginally more popular than Trump and a majority of americans are scared as hell of him.

    Trump has still never lead nationally, and he has to be leading nationally by 2 to win Wisconsin and perhaps Colorado and of course the election.

    A majority of americans think that Trump is going to use nukes, that's how scary he is, a majority of voters actually believes that Trump will bring the apocalypse if elected.

    In public opinion he is like Frankenstein's monster, how can he convince people that he is not a monster in just 40 days ?
    Does everyone who think he might use nukes intend to vote against him - or are some more likely to vote for him as a result?

    How could Vote Leave possibly convince the people of the UK that Brexit wouldnt be a disaster in just 40 days?
    I think it's 22% of people think he'll use nukes and are going to vote for him.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,092

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    @CycleFree
    I do wonder where this neglect of the North meme comes from. I visit Leeds regularly, Manchester occasionally, and Liverpool when I have to. All three cities have had massive amounts of money poured into them over the past twenty years or so. OK, Manchester has the advantage of the PIRA's rebuild the city kick start scheme but even so the difference and improvement between each of the city centres now compared to the late eighties is phenomenal.

    Compare and contrast with places in the South. Brighton has barely changed since I first got a place there in the mid-seventies (except there are fewer curry houses). Portsmouth bar one or two builds in still the dump that it always was, Southampton ditto. I could go on with other examples and point out that outside London investment in infrastructure has barely occurred for decades despite a very large growth in population.

    I don't see this neglect of the North bit at all.

    I played non-league football around Manchester, in the old towns in the hinterland. Your Leighs, your Pendletons and your Ashtons. That's what people are talking about, not the centres.
    I've been to Ashton on the tram, back in February :)
    Now there is proof that you are full of BS, Sunil my friend. There is no way you can go from Ilford to Ashton by tram.
    You do know I work in the Midlands during the week, right?

    Was a Friday - I did Brum to Crewe on London Midland Trains, then Virgin trains to Manchester, then tram to Ashton and back to Manchester, then Arriva Trains to Crewe, changed there to London Midland train to Birmingham. Then Virgin Trains to London Euston, then Tube to Gants Hill.

    There!
    That is what you get if you go drinking on a Friday then try to make your way back home, I guess?
    Except that I don't drink!
    Then you need to buy a map. Or a Satnav. Or some sense of direction!
  • IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    @CycleFree
    I do wonder where this neglect of the North meme comes from. I visit Leeds regularly, Manchester occasionally, and Liverpool when I have to. All three cities have had massive amounts of money poured into them over the past twenty years or so. OK, Manchester has the advantage of the PIRA's rebuild the city kick start scheme but even so the difference and improvement between each of the city centres now compared to the late eighties is phenomenal.

    Compare and contrast with places in the South. Brighton has barely changed since I first got a place there in the mid-seventies (except there are fewer curry houses). Portsmouth bar one or two builds in still the dump that it always was, Southampton ditto. I could go on with other examples and point out that outside London investment in infrastructure has barely occurred for decades despite a very large growth in population.

    I don't see this neglect of the North bit at all.

    I played non-league football around Manchester, in the old towns in the hinterland. Your Leighs, your Pendletons and your Ashtons. That's what people are talking about, not the centres.
    I've been to Ashton on the tram, back in February :)
    Now there is proof that you are full of BS, Sunil my friend. There is no way you can go from Ilford to Ashton by tram.
    You do know I work in the Midlands during the week, right?

    Was a Friday - I did Brum to Crewe on London Midland Trains, then Virgin trains to Manchester, then tram to Ashton and back to Manchester, then Arriva Trains to Crewe, changed there to London Midland train to Birmingham. Then Virgin Trains to London Euston, then Tube to Gants Hill.

    There!
    That is what you get if you go drinking on a Friday then try to make your way back home, I guess?
    Except that I don't drink!
    Then you need to buy a map. Or a Satnav. Or some sense of direction!
    I make do with the Baker Atlas :)

    I've been busy colouring it in over the last few years (latest addition, just this Monday, Reedham to Lowestoft).



  • Alistair said:

    Speedy said:

    Alistair said:

    For general USA early voting stuff

    https://twitter.com/electproject / www.electproject.org

    is a great source

    A word of caution, Romney thought he won in 2012 based on the early voting returns.

    With that out of the way, I can't see how Hillary loses this election as long as she is marginally more popular than Trump and a majority of americans are scared as hell of him.

    Trump has still never lead nationally, and he has to be leading nationally by 2 to win Wisconsin and perhaps Colorado and of course the election.

    A majority of americans think that Trump is going to use nukes, that's how scary he is, a majority of voters actually believes that Trump will bring the apocalypse if elected.

    In public opinion he is like Frankenstein's monster, how can he convince people that he is not a monster in just 40 days ?
    Does everyone who think he might use nukes intend to vote against him - or are some more likely to vote for him as a result?

    How could Vote Leave possibly convince the people of the UK that Brexit wouldnt be a disaster in just 40 days?
    I think it's 22% of people think he'll use nukes and are going to vote for him.
    So long as he only smites those who cant respond in kind, its the only language they understand?

    After all the long term fall out issues are exaggerated like global warming is.....or something like that?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,547
    IanB2 said:

    The Government's strategy of lulling our negotiating counter-party into a false sense of complacency by projecting the illusion that we are a bunch of amateurs without a plan that cannot even agree amongst ourselves where or when to start, seems to be working a treat...
    I'm curious. Theresa May fires off an email to Donald Tusk saying it's Article 50 time. There's presumably an attachment to the email with a shopping list of demands. As we have been joined to the EU for decades, this would run to thousands of pages I suppose to cover every affected widget.

    What happens next?

    If the Greek bailout is any clue, the European Council will reject the UK proposal and there will be a big stalemate while no-one really talks to each other and time ticks on. The EU side will come up with a counter proposal. Eventually there will be an all night session of all the national leaders at Berlaymont in Brussels. Angela Merkel goes head to head with Theresa May and sometime around 5 in the morning a compromise will be agreed, which is cosmetically different from the EU draft
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Ooh

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/article/2602684/

    Cheryl Mills, Hillary Clinton's former chief of staff, received an immunity deal from the Justice Department during the year-long FBI investigation of Clinton's server.

    Two other State Department staffers, John Bentel and Heather Samuelson, were also given immunity agreements, bringing the total number of witnesses who were protected by deals to five.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    TOPPING said:

    @BJO

    Best wishes to you and Mrs BJO.

    Seconded (or forty seconded as the case may be).
    Thanks to everyone for their kind words, just come away for a bit as told Op will take at least a further 3 hours.

    Horrible waiting but remaining optimistic.
    Wishing all the best to you and Mrs BJO.
  • @CycleFree
    I do wonder where this neglect of the North meme comes from. I visit Leeds regularly, Manchester occasionally, and Liverpool when I have to. All three cities have had massive amounts of money poured into them over the past twenty years or so. OK, Manchester has the advantage of the PIRA's rebuild the city kick start scheme but even so the difference and improvement between each of the city centres now compared to the late eighties is phenomenal.

    Compare and contrast with places in the South. Brighton has barely changed since I first got a place there in the mid-seventies (except there are fewer curry houses). Portsmouth bar one or two builds in still the dump that it always was, Southampton ditto. I could go on with other examples and point out that outside London investment in infrastructure has barely occurred for decades despite a very large growth in population.

    I don't see this neglect of the North bit at all.

    I played non-league football around Manchester, in the old towns in the hinterland. Your Leighs, your Pendletons and your Ashtons. That's what people are talking about, not the centres.
    Oldham, where even the main Railway Station is named after a disease......
    It's now a tram station on the Rochdale branch.
    Still Called Mumps station lol
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,092
    FF43 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The Government's strategy of lulling our negotiating counter-party into a false sense of complacency by projecting the illusion that we are a bunch of amateurs without a plan that cannot even agree amongst ourselves where or when to start, seems to be working a treat...
    I'm curious. Theresa May fires off an email to Donald Tusk saying it's Article 50 time. There's presumably an attachment to the email with a shopping list of demands. As we have been joined to the EU for decades, this would run to thousands of pages I suppose to cover every affected widget.

    What happens next?

    If the Greek bailout is any clue, the European Council will reject the UK proposal and there will be a big stalemate while no-one really talks to each other and time ticks on. The EU side will come up with a counter proposal. Eventually there will be an all night session of all the national leaders at Berlaymont in Brussels. Angela Merkel goes head to head with Theresa May and sometime around 5 in the morning a compromise will be agreed, which is cosmetically different from the EU draft
    As someone who spent many years in industrial relations, it is certainly true that whenever any negotiation has any sort of deadline or end stop, it is pretty much guaranteed that an agreement won't be reached until five to midnight. A fair few of my most significant deals were secured just before Christmas.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Joe Rich Law
    "How do I leave the Labour Party" is the UK's top-trending question on #Google before #Lab16 https://t.co/kDXY1ULnGs #Corbyn #Conference
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Clifford Fleming
    So outside my flat Chuka Umunna is recording a message to Labour members that Owen Smith has lost. #LabourLeadership #Lab16
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    edited September 2016
    IanB2 said:

    FF43 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The Government's strategy of lulling our negotiating counter-party into a false sense of complacency by projecting the illusion that we are a bunch of amateurs without a plan that cannot even agree amongst ourselves where or when to start, seems to be working a treat...
    I'm curious. Theresa May fires off an email to Donald Tusk saying it's Article 50 time. There's presumably an attachment to the email with a shopping list of demands. As we have been joined to the EU for decades, this would run to thousands of pages I suppose to cover every affected widget.

    What happens next?

    If the Greek bailout is any clue, the European Council will reject the UK proposal and there will be a big stalemate while no-one really talks to each other and time ticks on. The EU side will come up with a counter proposal. Eventually there will be an all night session of all the national leaders at Berlaymont in Brussels. Angela Merkel goes head to head with Theresa May and sometime around 5 in the morning a compromise will be agreed, which is cosmetically different from the EU draft
    As someone who spent many years in industrial relations, it is certainly true that whenever any negotiation has any sort of deadline or end stop, it is pretty much guaranteed that an agreement won't be reached until five to midnight. A fair few of my most significant deals were secured just before Christmas.
    Yes I have played the same game. However, if the other side is prepared to walk away from the table without a deal then such tactics just do not work.

    As I have said on here before, if you go into a negotiation without being prepared to walk away without a deal then you are begging not negotiating. Cameron did that, I would hope that TM is wise enough to learn such a recent lesson.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Britain Elects
    Welsh Westminster voting intention:
    LAB: 35% (+1)
    CON: 29% (+6)
    UKIP: 14% (-2)
    PC: 13% (-3)
    LDEM: 7% (-1)
    (via YouGov / 18 - 21 Sep)
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    GIN1138 said:

    Toxic failure George Osborne is still angling to be PM then?

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/george-osborne-warns-wont-fumble-next-leadership-bid/

    Brutal stuff.
    "As for his absurd and untrue claim that Brexit would make people £4,300 worse-off? Polls showed that just 7 per cent of the country believed him — fewer than believe that Elvis is still alive."
    "The word ‘fumble’ doesn’t begin to describe what Osborne did to the Remain campaign. As Will Straw and Nick Clegg now both admit, his £4,300-worse-off intervention inflicted more damage on his side than any attack line from Vote Leave. "
    I loved this comment.
    AxelHeyst sfin • 32 minutes ago

    George Osborne is a unifying figure.

    People who voted Remain, and people who voted Leave, think he's a delusional, over-promoted arsewipe.

    He's not fit to lead the Bullingdon Club.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    GIN1138 said:

    Toxic failure George Osborne is still angling to be PM then?

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/george-osborne-warns-wont-fumble-next-leadership-bid/

    Brutal stuff.
    "As for his absurd and untrue claim that Brexit would make people £4,300 worse-off? Polls showed that just 7 per cent of the country believed him — fewer than believe that Elvis is still alive."
    "The word ‘fumble’ doesn’t begin to describe what Osborne did to the Remain campaign. As Will Straw and Nick Clegg now both admit, his £4,300-worse-off intervention inflicted more damage on his side than any attack line from Vote Leave. "
    I loved this comment.
    AxelHeyst sfin • 32 minutes ago

    George Osborne is a unifying figure.

    People who voted Remain, and people who voted Leave, think he's a delusional, over-promoted arsewipe.

    He's not fit to lead the Bullingdon Club.
    :D
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    PlatoSaid said:

    Britain Elects
    Welsh Westminster voting intention:
    LAB: 35% (+1)
    CON: 29% (+6)
    UKIP: 14% (-2)
    PC: 13% (-3)
    LDEM: 7% (-1)
    (via YouGov / 18 - 21 Sep)

    2% swing from Lab to Con compared to the general election.
  • DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    Betfair midprices:

    Clinton 1.585
    Trump 3.125
    Biden 51.5
    Sanders 77.5
    Kaine 345

    Implied probability of someone other than Clinton or Trump: 4.9%.

    Why is Biden coming in?
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    Oh well - well done Middlesex!
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    IanB2 said:

    @CycleFree
    I do wonder where this neglect of the North meme comes from. I visit Leeds regularly, Manchester occasionally, and Liverpool when I have to. All three cities have had massive amounts of money poured into them over the past twenty years or so. OK, Manchester has the advantage of the PIRA's rebuild the city kick start scheme but even so the difference and improvement between each of the city centres now compared to the late eighties is phenomenal.

    Compare and contrast with places in the South. Brighton has barely changed since I first got a place there in the mid-seventies (except there are fewer curry houses). Portsmouth bar one or two builds in still the dump that it always was, Southampton ditto. I could go on with other examples and point out that outside London investment in infrastructure has barely occurred for decades despite a very large growth in population.

    I don't see this neglect of the North bit at all.

    I played non-league football around Manchester, in the old towns in the hinterland. Your Leighs, your Pendletons and your Ashtons. That's what people are talking about, not the centres.
    I've been to Ashton on the tram, back in February :)
    Now there is proof that you are full of BS, Sunil my friend. There is no way you can go from Ilford to Ashton by tram.
    You do know I work in the Midlands during the week, right?

    Was a Friday - I did Brum to Crewe on London Midland Trains, then Virgin trains to Manchester, then tram to Ashton and back to Manchester, then Arriva Trains to Crewe, changed there to London Midland train to Birmingham. Then Virgin Trains to London Euston, then Tube to Gants Hill.

    There!
    Whereabouts in the Midlands are you based during the week? Just wondering if it's anywhere near me.
  • @CycleFree
    I do wonder where this neglect of the North meme comes from. I visit Leeds regularly, Manchester occasionally, and Liverpool when I have to. All three cities have had massive amounts of money poured into them over the past twenty years or so. OK, Manchester has the advantage of the PIRA's rebuild the city kick start scheme but even so the difference and improvement between each of the city centres now compared to the late eighties is phenomenal.

    Compare and contrast with places in the South. Brighton has barely changed since I first got a place there in the mid-seventies (except there are fewer curry houses). Portsmouth bar one or two builds in still the dump that it always was, Southampton ditto. I could go on with other examples and point out that outside London investment in infrastructure has barely occurred for decades despite a very large growth in population.

    I don't see this neglect of the North bit at all.

    I played non-league football around Manchester, in the old towns in the hinterland. Your Leighs, your Pendletons and your Ashtons. That's what people are talking about, not the centres.
    Oldham, where even the main Railway Station is named after a disease......
    It's now a tram station on the Rochdale branch.
    Still Called Mumps station lol
    According to Wiki:

    The name of the station is taken from its situation within the Mumps area of Oldham, which itself probably derived from the archaic word "mumper", slang for a beggar

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldham_Mumps_tram_stop
  • GIN1138 said:

    Toxic failure George Osborne is still angling to be PM then?

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/george-osborne-warns-wont-fumble-next-leadership-bid/

    Brutal stuff.
    "As for his absurd and untrue claim that Brexit would make people £4,300 worse-off? Polls showed that just 7 per cent of the country believed him — fewer than believe that Elvis is still alive."
    "The word ‘fumble’ doesn’t begin to describe what Osborne did to the Remain campaign. As Will Straw and Nick Clegg now both admit, his £4,300-worse-off intervention inflicted more damage on his side than any attack line from Vote Leave. "
    I loved this comment.
    AxelHeyst sfin • 32 minutes ago

    George Osborne is a unifying figure.

    People who voted Remain, and people who voted Leave, think he's a delusional, over-promoted arsewipe.

    He's not fit to lead the Bullingdon Club.
    TSE would be appalled! :lol:

    :lol:
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820

    Alistair said:

    Speedy said:

    Alistair said:

    For general USA early voting stuff

    https://twitter.com/electproject / www.electproject.org

    is a great source

    A word of caution, Romney thought he won in 2012 based on the early voting returns.

    With that out of the way, I can't see how Hillary loses this election as long as she is marginally more popular than Trump and a majority of americans are scared as hell of him.

    Trump has still never lead nationally, and he has to be leading nationally by 2 to win Wisconsin and perhaps Colorado and of course the election.

    A majority of americans think that Trump is going to use nukes, that's how scary he is, a majority of voters actually believes that Trump will bring the apocalypse if elected.

    In public opinion he is like Frankenstein's monster, how can he convince people that he is not a monster in just 40 days ?
    Does everyone who think he might use nukes intend to vote against him - or are some more likely to vote for him as a result?

    How could Vote Leave possibly convince the people of the UK that Brexit wouldnt be a disaster in just 40 days?
    I think it's 22% of people think he'll use nukes and are going to vote for him.
    So long as he only smites those who cant respond in kind, its the only language they understand?

    After all the long term fall out issues are exaggerated like global warming is.....or something like that?
    If you have nukes then you must be prepared to use them. If Clinton says 'We will never use nukes' then it is open season on US interests abroad.
  • AndyJS said:

    IanB2 said:

    @CycleFree
    I do wonder where this neglect of the North meme comes from. I visit Leeds regularly, Manchester occasionally, and Liverpool when I have to. All three cities have had massive amounts of money poured into them over the past twenty years or so. OK, Manchester has the advantage of the PIRA's rebuild the city kick start scheme but even so the difference and improvement between each of the city centres now compared to the late eighties is phenomenal.

    Compare and contrast with places in the South. Brighton has barely changed since I first got a place there in the mid-seventies (except there are fewer curry houses). Portsmouth bar one or two builds in still the dump that it always was, Southampton ditto. I could go on with other examples and point out that outside London investment in infrastructure has barely occurred for decades despite a very large growth in population.

    I don't see this neglect of the North bit at all.

    I played non-league football around Manchester, in the old towns in the hinterland. Your Leighs, your Pendletons and your Ashtons. That's what people are talking about, not the centres.
    I've been to Ashton on the tram, back in February :)
    Now there is proof that you are full of BS, Sunil my friend. There is no way you can go from Ilford to Ashton by tram.
    You do know I work in the Midlands during the week, right?

    Was a Friday - I did Brum to Crewe on London Midland Trains, then Virgin trains to Manchester, then tram to Ashton and back to Manchester, then Arriva Trains to Crewe, changed there to London Midland train to Birmingham. Then Virgin Trains to London Euston, then Tube to Gants Hill.

    There!
    Whereabouts in the Midlands are you based during the week? Just wondering if it's anywhere near me.
    Sending you a VM.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,961
    PlatoSaid said:

    Britain Elects
    Welsh Westminster voting intention:
    LAB: 35% (+1)
    CON: 29% (+6)
    UKIP: 14% (-2)
    PC: 13% (-3)
    LDEM: 7% (-1)
    (via YouGov / 18 - 21 Sep)

    Surely that must be in error, as it blatantly conflicts with the LibDems winning EVERYTHING!! meme of this thread?
  • This is a bit of a strange article:

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2016/09/22/do_presidential_debates_change_the_polls_131855.html#2

    It seems to me that the graph indicates the diametric opposite of what David Byler concludes. In every case other than 1960 and perhaps 1984, the Democratic lead or deficit after the debates was different from that before the debates by several percentage points. Starting from where we are now, that's easily enough to flip the election either into a clear Trump victory or into a Clinton landslide.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Alistair said:
    Some great figures in there.

    33% of Trump supporters expect him to default government debt. 36% to have internment camps.

    So presumably they consider these either a good thing, or at least better than the alternative.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165
    weejonnie said:

    Oh well - well done Middlesex!

    Just got back in from work to see the last few wickets. Quite a finish.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,547

    IanB2 said:

    FF43 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The Government's strategy of lulling our negotiating counter-party into a false sense of complacency by projecting the illusion that we are a bunch of amateurs without a plan that cannot even agree amongst ourselves where or when to start, seems to be working a treat...
    I'm curious. Theresa May fires off an email to Donald Tusk saying it's Article 50 time. There's presumably an attachment to the email with a shopping list of demands. As we have been joined to the EU for decades, this would run to thousands of pages I suppose to cover every affected widget.

    What happens next?

    If the Greek bailout is any clue, the European Council will reject the UK proposal and there will be a big stalemate while no-one really talks to each other and time ticks on. The EU side will come up with a counter proposal. Eventually there will be an all night session of all the national leaders at Berlaymont in Brussels. Angela Merkel goes head to head with Theresa May and sometime around 5 in the morning a compromise will be agreed, which is cosmetically different from the EU draft
    As someone who spent many years in industrial relations, it is certainly true that whenever any negotiation has any sort of deadline or end stop, it is pretty much guaranteed that an agreement won't be reached until five to midnight. A fair few of my most significant deals were secured just before Christmas.
    Yes I have played the same game. However, if the other side is prepared to walk away from the table without a deal then such tactics just do not work.

    As I have said on here before, if you go into a negotiation without being prepared to walk away without a deal then you are begging not negotiating. Cameron did that, I would hope that TM is wise enough to learn such a recent lesson.
    I suspect it could be hard to work out a minimally satisfactory BATNA for Brexit. It isn't an entirely transactional process. If you just walked away as tactic you wouldn't be negotiating either.

    I don't know. Very difficult in any case.

  • I think enough time has passed that I am now able to once again enjoy that day in May 2015....

    at least until Strictly comes on and I can stop work...

    Bong.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    edited September 2016

    I think enough time has passed that I am now able to once again enjoy that day in May 2015....

    at least until Strictly comes on and I can stop work...

    Bong.

    here you go :D
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:


    Brexit is right-wing (on the basis that its principal champions have always been right-wing Tories and UKIP)

    Brexit was voted for by the majority and is by its very nature neither left wing or right wing, but populist...
    Even within the Tory party it was always a right-wing obsession, and you see the same across Europe - it's generally the right wing parties (Le Pen et al) who are leading the anti-EU crusade.
    I voted Labour at the GE2015.
    and you'll have to live with that ghastly thought forever whirring around in your head...

    Voting for Miliband Jr.. Yikes!
    Actually, I voted for Wes Streeting :)
    Vote Streeting get Miliband. Or vote Streeting get Corbyn. That latter one he is going to find tough.
    I think Wes backed Kendall last summer.
    I can guarantee that if you vote for Streeting again, you ain't gonna get Kendall...
    Well, whomever I vote for, the new Ilford North will no longer be a marginal, but pretty safe Labour.
    Not if the boundaries remain unchanged!
  • RobD said:

    I think enough time has passed that I am now able to once again enjoy that day in May 2015....

    at least until Strictly comes on and I can stop work...

    Bong.

    here you go :D
    Yay!

    My old friend.. dimbers 'we are saying the conservatives are the largest party.... quite remarkable'.....
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059
    edited September 2016
    Nicola - left standing

    Cammo, Clegg, Miliband, Farage and Farage all resigned since.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    IanB2 said:

    May have been mentioned, but Larry Sanders is to fight Witney for Greens:

    https://twitter.com/LarrySandersPPC

    Seems to me Greens in second place might not be unthinkable?
    The Corbys and the Greenies are after the same people
    Didn't someone on here say that the Lab candidate is rabidly anti-Corbyn?
    Read his tweets, especially from 23rd June.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,092
    edited September 2016
    justin124 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:


    Brexit is right-wing (on the basis that its principal champions have always been right-wing Tories and UKIP)

    Brexit was voted for by the majority and is by its very nature neither left wing or right wing, but populist...
    Even within the Tory party it was always a right-wing obsession, and you see the same across Europe - it's generally the right wing parties (Le Pen et al) who are leading the anti-EU crusade.
    I voted Labour at the GE2015.
    and you'll have to live with that ghastly thought forever whirring around in your head...

    Voting for Miliband Jr.. Yikes!
    Actually, I voted for Wes Streeting :)
    Vote Streeting get Miliband. Or vote Streeting get Corbyn. That latter one he is going to find tough.
    I think Wes backed Kendall last summer.
    I can guarantee that if you vote for Streeting again, you ain't gonna get Kendall...
    Well, whomever I vote for, the new Ilford North will no longer be a marginal, but pretty safe Labour.
    Not if the boundaries remain unchanged!
    That can't happen, though, because it is too small. There are various ways of cutting up the local area, many better than the draft proposals, but however you look at it the likelihood is that one of the local Labour seats gets abolished (probably Ilford South) and its wards get distributed about to add to the Labour majorities of the seats roundabout.

    Edit/ unless of course none of the changes happen, which may have been what you meant?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    Nicola - left standing

    Cammo, Clegg, Miliband, Farage and Farage all resigned since.

    Some of them twice :p
  • RobD said:

    Nicola - left standing

    Cammo, Clegg, Miliband, Farage and Farage all resigned since.

    Some of them twice :p
    we are of the same mind...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    RobD said:

    Nicola - left standing

    Cammo, Clegg, Miliband, Farage and Farage all resigned since.

    Some of them twice :p
    we are of the same mind...
    LOL I didn't even see his name their twice. Very good, sir! :D
  • Mr. Scrapheap, to be fair, Sturgeon's predecessor resigned the year before. She's hardly Ramses II.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    IanB2 said:

    justin124 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:


    Brexit is right-wing (on the basis that its principal champions have always been right-wing Tories and UKIP)

    Brexit was voted for by the majority and is by its very nature neither left wing or right wing, but populist...
    Even within the Tory party it was always a right-wing obsession, and you see the same across Europe - it's generally the right wing parties (Le Pen et al) who are leading the anti-EU crusade.
    I voted Labour at the GE2015.
    and you'll have to live with that ghastly thought forever whirring around in your head...

    Voting for Miliband Jr.. Yikes!
    Actually, I voted for Wes Streeting :)
    Vote Streeting get Miliband. Or vote Streeting get Corbyn. That latter one he is going to find tough.
    I think Wes backed Kendall last summer.
    I can guarantee that if you vote for Streeting again, you ain't gonna get Kendall...
    Well, whomever I vote for, the new Ilford North will no longer be a marginal, but pretty safe Labour.
    Not if the boundaries remain unchanged!
    That can't happen, though, because it is too small. There are various ways of cutting up the local area, many better than the draft proposals, but however you look at it the likelihood is that one of the local Labour seats gets abolished (probably Ilford South) and its wards get distributed about to add to the Labour majorities of the seats roundabout.

    Edit/ unless of course none of the changes happen, which may have been what you meant?
    Yes, I don't think justin wants the boundary changes to go ahead. One wonders why.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    They are guaranteeing all existing projects though, so I don't see what the big issue is apart from the rush to get the application submitted by the deadline. I think it's fair that new funding after November be reviewed on a case-by-case basis.
  • Cohen goes all guns on Corbyn:

    "Corbynism is just a sloganising personality cult: an attitude, rather than a programme to reform the country. That attitude is banal in content, conspiracist in essence, utopian in aspiration and vicious in practice."

    Spectator.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    IanB2 said:

    justin124 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:


    Brexit is right-wing (on the basis that its principal champions have always been right-wing Tories and UKIP)

    Brexit was voted for by the majority and is by its very nature neither left wing or right wing, but populist...
    Even within the Tory party it was always a right-wing obsession, and you see the same across Europe - it's generally the right wing parties (Le Pen et al) who are leading the anti-EU crusade.
    I voted Labour at the GE2015.
    and you'll have to live with that ghastly thought forever whirring around in your head...

    Voting for Miliband Jr.. Yikes!
    Actually, I voted for Wes Streeting :)
    Vote Streeting get Miliband. Or vote Streeting get Corbyn. That latter one he is going to find tough.
    I think Wes backed Kendall last summer.
    I can guarantee that if you vote for Streeting again, you ain't gonna get Kendall...
    Well, whomever I vote for, the new Ilford North will no longer be a marginal, but pretty safe Labour.
    Not if the boundaries remain unchanged!
    That can't happen, though, because it is too small. There are various ways of cutting up the local area, many better than the draft proposals, but however you look at it the likelihood is that one of the local Labour seats gets abolished (probably Ilford South) and its wards get distributed about to add to the Labour majorities of the seats roundabout.

    Edit/ unless of course none of the changes happen, which may have been what you meant?
    That is indeed what I meant. There are senior Tories who do not expect them to happen.
    Noticed Peter Bone speaking out against reducing the number of MPs.
  • Mr. Scrapheap, to be fair, Sturgeon's predecessor resigned the year before. She's hardly Ramses II.

    we've even had 2 labour leadership campaigns since last May - that's as many times as Farage conceded defeat on Brexit night and of course vowed 'we may have lost the battle but we're winning the war...the fight goes on'

    remainers of course aren't allowed to suggest such insulting behaviour to democracy...but let's not go there as I've jumped on to Ed Balls telling Dimbleby to ignore twitter and report on results and not about runours of his losing his seat... this is Balls Mk1 pre the national treasure rebirth...
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165
    edited September 2016

    Mr. Scrapheap, to be fair, Sturgeon's predecessor resigned the year before. She's hardly Ramses II.

    we've even had 2 labour leadership campaigns since last May - that's as many times as Farage conceded defeat on Brexit night and of course vowed 'we may have lost the battle but we're winning the war...the fight goes on'

    remainers of course aren't allowed to suggest such insulting behaviour to democracy...but let's not go there as I've jumped on to Ed Balls telling Dimbleby to ignore twitter and report on results and not about runours of his losing his seat... this is Balls Mk1 pre the national treasure rebirth...
    Sorry, but that's a bit of a straw man. Sure, we get a bit annoyed with those who want to stop Article 50 being triggered, but you're more than welcome to campaign to a) produce a form of Brexit that you think's best for Britain and/or b) full out rejoin the EU after winning a general election.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    PlatoSaid said:

    Joe Rich Law
    "How do I leave the Labour Party" is the UK's top-trending question on #Google before #Lab16 https://t.co/kDXY1ULnGs #Corbyn #Conference

    I have just checked this. It isn't true.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    PlatoSaid said:

    Joe Rich Law
    "How do I leave the Labour Party" is the UK's top-trending question on #Google before #Lab16 https://t.co/kDXY1ULnGs #Corbyn #Conference

    I have just checked this. It isn't true.
    The tweet came from a Google themselves. Why would they make it up?
  • tlg86 said:

    Mr. Scrapheap, to be fair, Sturgeon's predecessor resigned the year before. She's hardly Ramses II.

    we've even had 2 labour leadership campaigns since last May - that's as many times as Farage conceded defeat on Brexit night and of course vowed 'we may have lost the battle but we're winning the war...the fight goes on'

    remainers of course aren't allowed to suggest such insulting behaviour to democracy...but let's not go there as I've jumped on to Ed Balls telling Dimbleby to ignore twitter and report on results and not about runours of his losing his seat... this is Balls Mk1 pre the national treasure rebirth...
    Sorry, but that's a bit of a straw man. Sure, we get a bit annoyed with those who want to stop Article 50 being triggered, but you're more than welcome to campaign to a) produce a form of Brexit that you think's best for Britain and/or b) full out rejoin the EU after winning a general election.
    As required by my party membership, I am not that obsessed with Europe and indeed a few other matters so I merely make that factual statement & gladly move on.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,092
    RobD said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Joe Rich Law
    "How do I leave the Labour Party" is the UK's top-trending question on #Google before #Lab16 https://t.co/kDXY1ULnGs #Corbyn #Conference

    I have just checked this. It isn't true.
    The tweet came from a Google themselves. Why would they make it up?
    New Statesman says it is "how to leave the Labour Party" rather than "how can I leave...."
  • IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Joe Rich Law
    "How do I leave the Labour Party" is the UK's top-trending question on #Google before #Lab16 https://t.co/kDXY1ULnGs #Corbyn #Conference

    I have just checked this. It isn't true.
    The tweet came from a Google themselves. Why would they make it up?
    New Statesman says it is "how to leave the Labour Party" rather than "how can I leave...."
    MI5 &/or Mossad have infiltrated google?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Joe Rich Law
    "How do I leave the Labour Party" is the UK's top-trending question on #Google before #Lab16 https://t.co/kDXY1ULnGs #Corbyn #Conference

    I have just checked this. It isn't true.
    The tweet came from a Google themselves. Why would they make it up?
    New Statesman says it is "how to leave the Labour Party" rather than "how can I leave...."
    Talk about splitting hairs lol.
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    RobD said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Joe Rich Law
    "How do I leave the Labour Party" is the UK's top-trending question on #Google before #Lab16 https://t.co/kDXY1ULnGs #Corbyn #Conference

    I have just checked this. It isn't true.
    The tweet came from a Google themselves. Why would they make it up?
    If you click through to the image it says "top trending questions on the Labour party in the UK in the last 24 hours"
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    PlatoSaid said:
    I see the jobsworths are sticking their proverbial oar in.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    corporeal said:

    RobD said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Joe Rich Law
    "How do I leave the Labour Party" is the UK's top-trending question on #Google before #Lab16 https://t.co/kDXY1ULnGs #Corbyn #Conference

    I have just checked this. It isn't true.
    The tweet came from a Google themselves. Why would they make it up?
    If you click through to the image it says "top trending questions on the Labour party in the UK in the last 24 hours"
    Yes, so I don't see why it is supposedly inaccurate.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    @rpjs

    "... Manchester city centre is, indeed, humming, but you don't have to go very far from it to find lots of very poorly-off places and people. ..."

    But that is true of any city. You can find run down places with half a mile of the centre of London. That is not evidence of neglect, just evidence of what a city is, pretty much, the world over.

    As for Manchester's transport problems, I don't doubt you are correct in your description. I doubt that the over-crowding is any worse than down here. I came back from Cambridge a couple of weeks ago on a Sunday afternoon and it was standing room only.

    I dunno, I used to commute between Medway and London on Southeastern and it was never as bad as what I've seen in Manchester, and the CTRL domestic "Javelin" trains always had seats free.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,265

    Alistair said:
    Some great figures in there.

    33% of Trump supporters expect him to default government debt. 36% to have internment camps.

    So presumably they consider these either a good thing, or at least better than the alternative.
    Look on the bright side. Only 22% plan to vote Trump in the expectation that he'll start a nuclear war. :) Would be fun to meet some of those guys, though. "Nuke the world till it glows, that'll shake up the establishment!"
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    Alistair said:
    Some great figures in there.

    33% of Trump supporters expect him to default government debt. 36% to have internment camps.

    So presumably they consider these either a good thing, or at least better than the alternative.
    Look on the bright side. Only 22% plan to vote Trump in the expectation that he'll start a nuclear war. :) Would be fun to meet some of those guys, though. "Nuke the world till it glows, that'll shake up the establishment!"
    I thought it was a poorly worded question. It didn't specify any scenario (or even stating that the situation would be the same as today).
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Joe Rich Law
    "How do I leave the Labour Party" is the UK's top-trending question on #Google before #Lab16 https://t.co/kDXY1ULnGs #Corbyn #Conference

    I have just checked this. It isn't true.
    The tweet came from a Google themselves. Why would they make it up?
    New Statesman says it is "how to leave the Labour Party" rather than "how can I leave...."
    Okay, that exact wording does come up.
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    RobD said:

    corporeal said:

    RobD said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Joe Rich Law
    "How do I leave the Labour Party" is the UK's top-trending question on #Google before #Lab16 https://t.co/kDXY1ULnGs #Corbyn #Conference

    I have just checked this. It isn't true.
    The tweet came from a Google themselves. Why would they make it up?
    If you click through to the image it says "top trending questions on the Labour party in the UK in the last 24 hours"
    Yes, so I don't see why it is supposedly inaccurate.
    Because "uk's top trending question" doesn't have the "on the Labour party" qualifier. It did give me pause because the idea it might be the unqualified top question seemed incredible to say the least.
This discussion has been closed.