You add in a few 'my party at all costs' types. High floor for Labour.
High floor? Hmm, the 26% Labour are on today with ICM would be their lowest voteshare at a general election since the 21% they got in 1918!
I think @kle4 presumably means a high floor relative to the minor parties, which is undoubtedly correct. At this stage I would expect Corbyn Labour to poll somewhere around Michael Foot levels, or possibly a little worse - but not less than 25%.
Labour can still summon the support of voters who are enthusiastic about, or at least willing to consider, a hard Left platform (that's around 15-20% straight away) plus a number of still committed (or captive) groups including working-age people who are long-term benefit dependent, unionised public sector employees, poorer black and Muslim voters, student radicals, quite a lot of metro left-libs, and the surviving Labour tribal loyalty vote. Allowing for boundary change and with no likelihood of a revival in Scotland, the defeat they would be expected to suffer under such a scenario would actually be slightly less disastrous, in seat proportional terms, than that of John Major in 1997: Labour holds a large number of urban seats in England and Wales with mountainous majorities that are only vulnerable in the event of a more-or-less total collapse in its support.
Put aside the financial loss of the Union or the issue of the currency. If you cannot even prove yourself fit enough to run the most vital public services, who would trust you to run an Independent Scotland with all the other problems that creates for the us? Many local SNP associations are now in turmoil after recent Yes converts have taken over and pushed out long time SNP members and activists who did so much of the on ground work in local areas.
I'm from down South and obviously miss out on a lot of the nuances of the Scottish situation. Are the SNP really starting to suffer from their own bout of Momentumitis? Well...
I dont know either but I'll save an snp supporter the trouble and say
Yeah right, most popular in Scotland, bunch of useless donkeys wishing that was happening, I'm not a fanatic I just think everything is good for the SNP all the time, donkeys again.
That's a good, wee party trick you've got going there, but d'ye think it might be getting a bit repetitive?
Trump brining up Gennifer Flowers means it's now open season on Trump infidelities.
Maybe, but the Flowers stuff is all very much public domain, and Hillary will be a lot more upset with the public's new history lesson than Trump would ever be.
I'm still waiting for a Republican PAC to make a House of Cards trailer showing the Clintons in place of the lead characters.
If they've really got balls, they'll do it with actual footage, will make a couple of days of headlines as HBO try and get it taken down - while everyone is talking about the comparison between the Underwoods and the Clintons.
That Trump had affairs has already been done - sure it'll get brought up again, but he's never claimed to be an unflawed person. And he wasn't President at the time or Gov of Arkansas.
It's pretty thin whataboutery that doesn't deflect much from the core problem - the Clintons have a crypt full of skeletons.
Bill lying on 60 Minutes is a corker. He later confessed under oath that he'd had a sexual relationship with Flowers. Was this the meaning of 'is' stuff? It was so absurd at the time - makes OJ Simpson look innocent.
The last two minutes of that video are pure House of Cards. The willingness to do and say absolutely anything in the quest for the pursuit of power.
And remember in all this, that Bill later admitted under oath that the allegations against him were true.
Weird seeing Hillary being such an effective communicator back then. How did she become so crap?
She wasn't a politician then, she's been a Senator for eight years, and Secretary of State for four years, plus eight years as First Lady, she's been denuded by becoming a politician, and speaking like a politician.
Trump brining up Gennifer Flowers means it's now open season on Trump infidelities.
Maybe, but the Flowers stuff is all very much public domain, and Hillary will be a lot more upset with the public's new history lesson than Trump would ever be.
I'm still waiting for a Republican PAC to make a House of Cards trailer showing the Clintons in place of the lead characters.
If they've really got balls, they'll do it with actual footage, will make a couple of days of headlines as HBO try and get it taken down - while everyone is talking about the comparison between the Underwoods and the Clintons.
That Trump had affairs has already been done - sure it'll get brought up again, but he's never claimed to be an unflawed person. And he wasn't President at the time or Gov of Arkansas.
It's pretty thin whataboutery that doesn't deflect much from the core problem - the Clintons have a crypt full of skeletons.
Bill lying on 60 Minutes is a corker. He later confessed under oath that he'd had a sexual relationship with Flowers. Was this the meaning of 'is' stuff? It was so absurd at the time - makes OJ Simpson look innocent.
People pinning their hopes on the obstructive nature of Blairite Tory MPs to force a second EU vote should see how that kind of thinking worked in Labour.
The mushy centre is not where the public are, nor the memberships.
On the EU, the mushy centre is probably where most people are, and certainly where the Prime Minister and Foreign Secretary are.
I'm sure PB's remaining George Osborne cheerleaders will be looking forward to the 2016Q2 balance of payments data to be released on Friday.
Let us remember what their hero told us in January 2010:
" we cannot go on with the Gordon Brown model of growth, which is government debt, consumer debt, banking debt. That is what delivered this enormous crisis for Britain. ... at the moment we borrow money from the Chinese in order to buy the things that the Chinese make for us. "
''People pinning their hopes on the obstructive nature of Blairite Tory MPs to force a second EU vote should see how that kind of thinking worked in Labour.
The mushy centre is not where the public are, nor the memberships.''
How Corbyn can rely on his own MPs to vote in clutch commons matters is surely a topic for debate.
It has been claimed the nominal majority is 12 but is it that close, really?
So ICM have Labour dropping to 26%... that could easily be and probably actually is 23%.
There are plenty (probably close to a majority) of UK voters who would never vote Tory. So these low Labour vote scenarios need to posit other parties for whom many such people will vote (which of course largely explains why Labour isn't polling even worse).
In a similar vein, imagine - just for the purposes of debate - a scenario for 2020 where Brexit is very obviously turning out badly for the UK, and the population is mightily unhappy about it. The current party leaders are all in post. What's the result of the GE?
They might never bring themselves to vote Tory. But they just won't vote.
A Labour Party with no sensible external policies and internal blood-letting will be lucky to get 20%. If the non-Momentum people interviewed at Conference yesterday looked on the verge of giving up, why should their underwhelmed fellow travelling voters be any more likely to be arsed to give them their vote?
And all the Tories have to do post boundary change is to hold on to what David Cameron won last time, in order to be home and dry with room to spare.
The more likely scenario is that Corbyn will significantly underpoll EdM and be slaughtered. That Corbyn Labour will actually do better than last time, and take enough votes directly from the Conservatives to mount a halfway decent challenge to them, seems close to a logical impossibility.
I'm working on the analogy that the Labour Party is a business owned by its workers.
It has assets (brand, data, organisation, premises). Its workers are its members and supporters who do the grunt work and provide funds. They are also the shareholders who own the business. MPs are also workers - they are the salespeople. The electorate are its customers. The Board of Directors are the Shadow Cabinet led by the CEO.
Without customers or workers they are out of business. At the moment, they have a lot of workers, disgruntled salespeople and are losing customers. Nevertheless the shareholders have just reconfirmed the appointment of the CEO who is unpopular with the salespeople who feel he is debasing the product and the brand.
A new Board of Directors is about to be appointed. The CEO recommends to the shareholders who have the last word but he is aware that he needs the support of the salespeople. He could fire them but many of them have loyal customers, or he could consult them before putting the appointments to a shareholder vote.
Trump brining up Gennifer Flowers means it's now open season on Trump infidelities.
Maybe, but the Flowers stuff is all very much public domain, and Hillary will be a lot more upset with the public's new history lesson than Trump would ever be.
I'm still waiting for a Republican PAC to make a House of Cards trailer showing the Clintons in place of the lead characters.
If they've really got balls, they'll do it with actual footage, will make a couple of days of headlines as HBO try and get it taken down - while everyone is talking about the comparison between the Underwoods and the Clintons.
That Trump had affairs has already been done - sure it'll get brought up again, but he's never claimed to be an unflawed person. And he wasn't President at the time or Gov of Arkansas.
It's pretty thin whataboutery that doesn't deflect much from the core problem - the Clintons have a crypt full of skeletons.
Bill lying on 60 Minutes is a corker. He later confessed under oath that he'd had a sexual relationship with Flowers. Was this the meaning of 'is' stuff? It was so absurd at the time - makes OJ Simpson look innocent.
The last two minutes of that video are pure House of Cards. The willingness to do and say absolutely anything in the quest for the pursuit of power.
And remember in all this, that Bill later admitted under oath that the allegations against him were true.
Weird seeing Hillary being such an effective communicator back then. How did she become so crap?
She wasn't a politician then, she's been a Senator for eight years, and Secretary of State for four years, plus eight years as First Lady, she's been denuded by becoming a politician, and speaking like a politician.
She'd been First Lady of Arkansas for 8 years where she took an active role in various task forces so to all intents and purposes she was a politician.
You add in a few 'my party at all costs' types. High floor for Labour.
High floor? Hmm, the 26% Labour are on today with ICM would be their lowest voteshare at a general election since the 21% they got in 1918!
I think @kle4 presumably means a high floor relative to the minor parties, which is undoubtedly correct. At this stage I would expect Corbyn Labour to poll somewhere around Michael Foot levels, or possibly a little worse - but not less than 25%.
Labour can still summon the support of voters who are enthusiastic about, or at least willing to consider, a hard Left platform (that's around 15-20% straight away) plus a number of still committed (or captive) groups including working-age people who are long-term benefit dependent, unionised public sector employees, poorer black and Muslim voters, student radicals, quite a lot of metro left-libs, and the surviving Labour tribal loyalty vote. Allowing for boundary change and with no likelihood of a revival in Scotland, the defeat they would be expected to suffer under such a scenario would actually be slightly less disastrous, in seat proportional terms, than that of John Major in 1997: Labour holds a large number of urban seats in England and Wales with mountainous majorities that are only vulnerable in the event of a more-or-less total collapse in its support.
Without boundary changes, Labour would still win c.190 seats on an ICM-type result.
Possibly the worst value bet ever offered by Wm. Hill. Not content with a 12% over-round, they then expect you to provide them with an interest free loan for between 4 and 15 years. Nice work if you can get it and small wonder you never see a poor bookie with betting opportunities like that one!
Mr. Rook, a lot depends on how UKIP and the Lib Dems (and, to a lesser extent, the SNP/Plaid) perform. If James is atrocious, that's great for the reds. If she's very skilled, that makes things a lot tougher for them.
Trump brining up Gennifer Flowers means it's now open season on Trump infidelities.
Maybe, but the Flowers stuff is all very much public domain, and Hillary will be a lot more upset with the public's new history lesson than Trump would ever be.
I'm still waiting for a Republican PAC to make a House of Cards trailer showing the Clintons in place of the lead characters.
If they've really got balls, they'll do it with actual footage, will make a couple of days of headlines as HBO try and get it taken down - while everyone is talking about the comparison between the Underwoods and the Clintons.
That Trump had affairs has already been done - sure it'll get brought up again, but he's never claimed to be an unflawed person. And he wasn't President at the time or Gov of Arkansas.
It's pretty thin whataboutery that doesn't deflect much from the core problem - the Clintons have a crypt full of skeletons.
Bill lying on 60 Minutes is a corker. He later confessed under oath that he'd had a sexual relationship with Flowers. Was this the meaning of 'is' stuff? It was so absurd at the time - makes OJ Simpson look innocent.
The last two minutes of that video are pure House of Cards. The willingness to do and say absolutely anything in the quest for the pursuit of power.
And remember in all this, that Bill later admitted under oath that the allegations against him were true.
Weird seeing Hillary being such an effective communicator back then. How did she become so crap?
Age.
Political skills can rapidly atrophy, as Jeb Bush found.
She was driven leftwards by Bernie and become very shrill. Whomever lets her dress like a space commander needs sacking. It's an appalling look. I'm very fond of the the Dr No look - but wouldn't wear it to meetings where I wanted to appeal to anyone.
'Sir Craig Oliver, a former key aide to Mr Cameron, said the then home secretary failed to back the Remain campaign 13 times and was regarded by some as "an enemy agent".'
I'm sure PB's remaining George Osborne cheerleaders will be looking forward to the 2016Q2 balance of payments data to be released on Friday.
Let us remember what their hero told us in January 2010:
" we cannot go on with the Gordon Brown model of growth, which is government debt, consumer debt, banking debt. That is what delivered this enormous crisis for Britain. ... at the moment we borrow money from the Chinese in order to buy the things that the Chinese make for us. "
I remember nonsense about 1992 when lots of articles were published explaining that the UK had been moved into a 1 party state like Japan (which was rather more of a compliment in those days) and how investors no longer needed to worry about "democratic risk". All turned out to be complete tosh of course.
Nature abhors a vacuum and the people need a choice. It doesn't have to be Labour but they are very much in pole position and are going to be very hard to shift.
The fact that Labour is both the main Opposition and has stickability does not mean it has a God-given right to bounce back, nor that it will necessarily do so in future.
We already, of course, had 18 years of uninterrupted Conservative majority rule at the back end of the last century, and there is no reason to suppose that the Tories cannot emulate (or even outdo) this in future, regardless of how long-serving and potentially tired and jaded a far-future Tory administration becomes - just so long as the Opposition is badly divided and extreme.
A forced choice between voting in the Conservatives and the Far Left is, for the nation, a bit like being made to choose between sitting on an old sofa or an iron spike. No matter how knackered, saggy and busted the sofa is, and no matter how many times people are given the chance to change their minds, they will always choose the settee over the spike.
If the Corbyn movement thinks that it can sit as a rump on the green benches for 10, 15 or 20 years and wait for voters to embrace them, simply out of ennui for the Tories and for want of any better alternative, then it is liable to be disappointed.
I'm beginning to wonder if Trump's Vegas success has helped with his political poker skills. The whole city is infested with very scary types and has a very hard nose. He keeps squashing his opponents as they smug about how stupid he is.
Talk about underestimating his nous.
EDIT - just looked it up - those are superb reviews from c10k guests
Possibly the worst value bet ever offered by Wm. Hill. Not content with a 12% over-round, they then expect you to provide them with an interest free loan for between 4 and 15 years. Nice work if you can get it and small wonder you never see a poor bookie with betting opportunities like that one!
Especially when the winning bet is that Labour will NEVER form another majority Govt. ! Their best hope of power is probably a period of messy coalitions - then everyone gives up trying and agrees to implement PR.
I remember nonsense about 1992 when lots of articles were published explaining that the UK had been moved into a 1 party state like Japan (which was rather more of a compliment in those days) and how investors no longer needed to worry about "democratic risk". All turned out to be complete tosh of course.
Nature abhors a vacuum and the people need a choice. It doesn't have to be Labour but they are very much in pole position and are going to be very hard to shift.
I remember the same thing ever since 1979. People used to say "there is no effective opposition except the press". They have stopped saying that so I suppose things are even worse than before.
Yes there is a broad but fragmented majority for the centre right in this country at the moment. The printed press are generally on board to a varying but far from uncritical extent. The BBC still stands for the centre left but it is increasingly isolated as many of their traditional and necessary allies on the harder left disappear up their own arseholes. What is missing on both sides of the divide is the kind of coherence that Thatcher once gave the right and Blair gave to the left. I struggle to see anyone in front line politics now with that kind of narrative arc.
'Sir Craig Oliver, a former key aide to Mr Cameron, said the then home secretary failed to back the Remain campaign 13 times and was regarded by some as "an enemy agent".'
Possibly the worst value bet ever offered by Wm. Hill. Not content with a 12% over-round, they then expect you to provide them with an interest free loan for between 4 and 15 years. Nice work if you can get it and small wonder you never see a poor bookie with betting opportunities like that one!
Especially when the winning bet is that Labour will NEVER form another majority Govt. ! Their best hope of power is probably a period of messy coalitions - then everyone gives up trying and agrees to implement PR.
They'd pay out on "Never" come 2031. But it's still rubbish.
'Sir Craig Oliver, a former key aide to Mr Cameron, said the then home secretary failed to back the Remain campaign 13 times and was regarded by some as "an enemy agent".'
When will Theresa be taking her share of the responsibility for the Brexit vote?
I'm not sure these revelations are a problem for May.
What about the revelation that May advised Cameron to soft-peddle demands for restrictions on migration in his renegotiation. Those are surely a problem for her.
Mr. Mark, reminds me of one of my favourite I, Claudius lines. Tiberius (I think speaking to Drusus, his brother) said of his mother:
They say a snake bit her. And died.
She thinks that the shadow cabinet elections for MPs should be supported and voted at the conference. Whereas Corbyn and McDonnell have already kicked it into the long grass
'Sir Craig Oliver, a former key aide to Mr Cameron, said the then home secretary failed to back the Remain campaign 13 times and was regarded by some as "an enemy agent".'
When will Theresa be taking her share of the responsibility for the Brexit vote?
I'm not sure these revelations are a problem for May.
What about the revelation that May advised Cameron to soft-peddle demands for restrictions on migration in his renegotiation. Those are surely a problem for her.
Theresa May was Home Secretary for six years and conspicuously failed to get immigration under control. As Prime Minister, she has already shot down a points-based system. How is it a revelation that May does not think much can be done about immigration?
Put aside the financial loss of the Union or the issue of the currency. If you cannot even prove yourself fit enough to run the most vital public services, who would trust you to run an Independent Scotland with all the other problems that creates for the us? Many local SNP associations are now in turmoil after recent Yes converts have taken over and pushed out long time SNP members and activists who did so much of the on ground work in local areas.
I'm from down South and obviously miss out on a lot of the nuances of the Scottish situation. Are the SNP really starting to suffer from their own bout of Momentumitis? Well...
I dont know either but I'll save an snp supporter the trouble and say
Yeah right, most popular in Scotland, bunch of useless donkeys wishing that was happening, I'm not a fanatic I just think everything is good for the SNP all the time, donkeys again.
'Sir Craig Oliver, a former key aide to Mr Cameron, said the then home secretary failed to back the Remain campaign 13 times and was regarded by some as "an enemy agent".'
John McDonnell has indicated he has no regrets about calling fellow MP Esther McVey a "stain on humanity" and repeating a call to have her lynched ahead of the last election.
The Labour shadow chancellor said "sometimes you need to express honest anger" as he declined to apologise to Conservative McVey as they both appeared on Peston on Sunday.
He said that he was quoting a constituent - but added that his comments were justified by the "appalling" treatment of people with disabilities by the last government
Trump brining up Gennifer Flowers means it's now open season on Trump infidelities.
Maybe, but the Flowers stuff is all very much public domain, and Hillary will be a lot more upset with the public's new history lesson than Trump would ever be.
I'm still waiting for a Republican PAC to make a House of Cards trailer showing the Clintons in place of the lead characters.
If they've really got balls, they'll do it with actual footage, will make a couple of days of headlines as HBO try and get it taken down - while everyone is talking about the comparison between the Underwoods and the Clintons.
That Trump had affairs has already been done - sure it'll get brought up again, but he's never claimed to be an unflawed person. And he wasn't President at the time or Gov of Arkansas.
It's pretty thin whataboutery that doesn't deflect much from the core problem - the Clintons have a crypt full of skeletons.
Bill lying on 60 Minutes is a corker. He later confessed under oath that he'd had a sexual relationship with Flowers. Was this the meaning of 'is' stuff? It was so absurd at the time - makes OJ Simpson look innocent.
The last two minutes of that video are pure House of Cards. The willingness to do and say absolutely anything in the quest for the pursuit of power.
And remember in all this, that Bill later admitted under oath that the allegations against him were true.
Weird seeing Hillary being such an effective communicator back then. How did she become so crap?
She wasn't a politician then, she's been a Senator for eight years, and Secretary of State for four years, plus eight years as First Lady, she's been denuded by becoming a politician, and speaking like a politician.
It's almost like 30 years of being constantly attacked by the press has made her defensive.
Put aside the financial loss of the Union or the issue of the currency. If you cannot even prove yourself fit enough to run the most vital public services, who would trust you to run an Independent Scotland with all the other problems that creates for the us? Many local SNP associations are now in turmoil after recent Yes converts have taken over and pushed out long time SNP members and activists who did so much of the on ground work in local areas.
I'm from down South and obviously miss out on a lot of the nuances of the Scottish situation. Are the SNP really starting to suffer from their own bout of Momentumitis? Well...
Ha Ha , rabid Tory Fitanut spouting the usual Tory guff
Jeremy Corbyn’s re-election marks the demise of the Labour Party as a credible UK political force. His victory last year could have been written off as a spasm. But yesterday’s result has confirmed the fact that the unelectable hard left has now assumed a lock grip on Britain’s main party of opposition.
And the big question now is: who will speak for these decent, moderate Scottish voters who once looked to Labour for leadership, but who no longer recognise the party they once knew?
I am therefore determined to build a moderate Scottish Conservative party that appeals to the same people who supported Brown and Blair: one which knows that economic growth only has value if it works in tandem with social progress.
Dr. Foxinsox, point of order: can women be cuckolded? I thought it only applied to men. [Not that I'm an expert in the field].
I'm wondering if there's a rarely used but feminine version of the term.
Wiki tells me that "The female equivalent cuckquean first appears in English literature in 1562"
I thought cuckholded meant that the wife had another man's child and passed it off as her husband's?
Chelsea is clearly Bill's kid. In the same flattering way that Beatrice/Eugenie is Andrew's
John McCain made an absolutely foul joke about Chelsea's parentage.
Do tell !
(per Google) Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly? Because her father is Janet Reno. I will leave you to google the explanation. I have and I still don't really get it.
There are more logical fathers than Bill. Webb Hubbell.
I remember nonsense about 1992 when lots of articles were published explaining that the UK had been moved into a 1 party state like Japan (which was rather more of a compliment in those days) and how investors no longer needed to worry about "democratic risk". All turned out to be complete tosh of course.
Nature abhors a vacuum and the people need a choice. It doesn't have to be Labour but they are very much in pole position and are going to be very hard to shift.
I remember the same thing ever since 1979. People used to say "there is no effective opposition except the press". They have stopped saying that so I suppose things are even worse than before.
Yes there is a broad but fragmented majority for the centre right in this country at the moment. The printed press are generally on board to a varying but far from uncritical extent. The BBC still stands for the centre left but it is increasingly isolated as many of their traditional and necessary allies on the harder left disappear up their own arseholes. What is missing on both sides of the divide is the kind of coherence that Thatcher once gave the right and Blair gave to the left. I struggle to see anyone in front line politics now with that kind of narrative arc.
When the 1979 Confidence debate was shown I was amazed at the detailed knowledge of economics Thatcher showed.
A complete comparison with the petty political point scoring and power grabbing which dominated the Brown and Osborne budgets.
9.46am : Corbyn tells Jewish peer who quit Labour over anti-Semitism to "reflect"
9:56am: Corbyn says he backs investigations into British troops
10.00am: Corbyn says he opposes giving more resources to MI6
10:22am: McDonnell defends calling for Esther McVey to be lynched
10:40am: Yvette Cooper tells McDonnell to apologise. He doesn't.
That, and Corbyn also reaffirmed on Marr his commitment to open border migration and to spending half a trillion pounds of additional borrowed money. And that new ICM poll has appeared with a 15% lead for the Government, in mid-term.
You add in a few 'my party at all costs' types. High floor for Labour.
High floor? Hmm, the 26% Labour are on today with ICM would be their lowest voteshare at a general election since the 21% they got in 1918!
I think @kle4 presumably means a high floor relative to the minor parties, which is undoubtedly correct. At this stage I would expect Corbyn Labour to poll somewhere around Michael Foot levels, or possibly a little worse - but not less than 25%.
Labour can still summon the support of voters who are enthusiastic about, or at least willing to consider, a hard Left platform (that's around 15-20% straight away) plus a number of still committed (or captive) groups including working-age people who are long-term benefit dependent, unionised public sector employees, poorer black and Muslim voters, student radicals, quite a lot of metro left-libs, and the surviving Labour tribal loyalty vote. Allowing for boundary change and with no likelihood of a revival in Scotland, the defeat they would be expected to suffer under such a scenario would actually be slightly less disastrous, in seat proportional terms, than that of John Major in 1997: Labour holds a large number of urban seats in England and Wales with mountainous majorities that are only vulnerable in the event of a more-or-less total collapse in its support.
However if some Tories switched to UKIP post Brexit as the deal was not hard enough for them and Labour fell to 25% the Kippers could well run Labour close, at least in voteshare
Put aside the financial loss of the Union or the issue of the currency. If you cannot even prove yourself fit enough to run the most vital public services, who would trust you to run an Independent Scotland with all the other problems that creates for the us? Many local SNP associations are now in turmoil after recent Yes converts have taken over and pushed out long time SNP members and activists who did so much of the on ground work in local areas.
I'm from down South and obviously miss out on a lot of the nuances of the Scottish situation. Are the SNP really starting to suffer from their own bout of Momentumitis? Well...
I dont know either but I'll save an snp supporter the trouble and say
Yeah right, most popular in Scotland, bunch of useless donkeys wishing that was happening, I'm not a fanatic I just think everything is good for the SNP all the time, donkeys again.
That's a good, wee party trick you've got going there, but d'ye think it might be getting a bit repetitive?
Perhaps so, but is it less repetitive than the automated response it is mocking? Respectfully, I have to say I do not think it is. And though reasonable people may differ on that point, it is certainly less openly insulting of any hint of criticism or even questioning of one's favoured view. It is also entirely accurate in tone if not word, not even an exaggeration.
It's certainly not the only repetitive partisan response we see, but it is one of the more aggressive ones, even if '52-48' as a response to any mention of Brexit misses the point more often (sorry Sunil).
Rest assured I am more than happy to extend it, and have, to other issues. So thank you for your comment, but I'm fairly comfortable I am still just varied enough.
Trump brining up Gennifer Flowers means it's now open season on Trump infidelities.
Maybe, but the Flowers stuff is all very much public domain, and Hillary will be a lot more upset with the public's new history lesson than Trump would ever be.
I'm still waiting for a Republican PAC to make a House of Cards trailer showing the Clintons in place of the lead characters.
If they've really got balls, they'll do it with actual footage, will make a couple of days of headlines as HBO try and get it taken down - while everyone is talking about the comparison between the Underwoods and the Clintons.
That Trump had affairs has already been done - sure it'll get brought up again, but he's never claimed to be an unflawed person. And he wasn't President at the time or Gov of Arkansas.
It's pretty thin whataboutery that doesn't deflect much from the core problem - the Clintons have a crypt full of skeletons.
Bill lying on 60 Minutes is a corker. He later confessed under oath that he'd had a sexual relationship with Flowers. Was this the meaning of 'is' stuff? It was so absurd at the time - makes OJ Simpson look innocent.
The last two minutes of that video are pure House of Cards. The willingness to do and say absolutely anything in the quest for the pursuit of power.
And remember in all this, that Bill later admitted under oath that the allegations against him were true.
Weird seeing Hillary being such an effective communicator back then. How did she become so crap?
She wasn't a politician then, she's been a Senator for eight years, and Secretary of State for four years, plus eight years as First Lady, she's been denuded by becoming a politician, and speaking like a politician.
It's almost like 30 years of being constantly attacked by the press has made her defensive.
That would make sense but she doesn't come over as defensive, she comes over as entitled.
I know the polls are dire for Labour and Corbyn's personal ones are even worse. This isn't a rhetorical trick or a debating point. But how do you explain the huge size of the supposedly moribund and soon to be extinct Labour Party? Over half a million people voted in the leadership election. Even if all the Owen Smith supporters left Labour would still be comfortably the biggest party in the UK. If all Owen Smith's supporters formed their own party it would be the second biggest. Even a pressure group like Momentum has more members than people voted in the UKIP leadership election.
votes were counted.
Hmmm... some on the Far Left (I wouldn't say a majority though: most people aren't thick or blinkered, and they know that their prospectus can't carry enough votes in the country) commit what John Harris recently christened the John Peel mistake. A term which, if there's any justice, will be entering the vernacular at some point over the next couple of years. And I quote... : “Everyone I know’s got a copy,” he said. Back came the reply: “No – you know everyone who’s got a copy.”)"
It is no wonder that an electrified, politically enthused Far Left can outmuscle the more pragmatic and practical Tory Party membership in terms of sheer weight of numbers, but selling the same prospectus to a deeply sceptical electorate is a different thing entirely. In a General Election contest, where the average voter is looking for managerial competence and a platform and set of values that most closely conform to their own opinions and prejudices, the Conservative Party is a country mile ahead - and, against Corbyn Labour, it will continue to be so.
JC has been elected by Trotskyists. Long-standing Labourites didn't vote for him.
what rubbish, where did the 400K trots appear from, you soft in the head or something.
'Sir Craig Oliver, a former key aide to Mr Cameron, said the then home secretary failed to back the Remain campaign 13 times and was regarded by some as "an enemy agent".'
We still have a newish PM but we are also getting close to the point when you would expect the opposition to be ahead in the Parliament. Labour broke significantly ahead in April 2012 and pretty much held that lead until the election campaign itself.
Can swingback really work in the Tories' favour from this perspective? Surely not.
Put aside the financial loss of the Union or the issue of the currency. If you cannot even prove yourself fit enough to run the most vital public services, who would trust you to run an Independent Scotland with all the other problems that creates for the us? Many local SNP associations are now in turmoil after recent Yes converts have taken over and pushed out long time SNP members and activists who did so much of the on ground work in local areas.
I'm from down South and obviously miss out on a lot of the nuances of the Scottish situation. Are the SNP really starting to suffer from their own bout of Momentumitis? Well...
Ha Ha , rabid Tory Fitanut spouting the usual Tory guff
She's a prominent figure for distressed, Corbyn-sceptic (and Europhile) progressives to cling to; she's obviously both an intelligent woman and not a Far Leftist; and a lot of English left-liberals who are otherwise internationalist and very suspicious of nationalism have this blind spot for the SNP, which they think is well-aligned with their own values and altogether rather lovely. Thus, I don't find this figure especially surprising.
The SNP is very clearly aligned with the world outlook of the middle class centre left (as opposed to hard left).
Very true Sean, not many frothers on here can countenance that , especially the Scottish Tory loons, with the exception of Davidl.
On the EU, the mushy centre is probably where most people are, and certainly where the Prime Minister and Foreign Secretary are.
I don't see that at all.
52% voted leave in spite of all the tales of woe while 25% seem intent on voting for Corbyn.
Even if you allow a slight degree of crossover between the harder left and Leave I'd say the pro EU, scarcely principled, effete school of politicking (Blair/Cameron/Clegg) is pretty much on the canvas.
'Sir Craig Oliver, a former key aide to Mr Cameron, said the then home secretary failed to back the Remain campaign 13 times and was regarded by some as "an enemy agent".'
When will Theresa be taking her share of the responsibility for the Brexit vote?
I'm not sure these revelations are a problem for May.
Not in Leavistan maybe..
We all live there now.
Not yet. We're wondering when the removal van will turn up, and thinking that maybe it would have been a good idea to view the new house before putting in an offer.
9.46am : Corbyn tells Jewish peer who quit Labour over anti-Semitism to "reflect"
9:56am: Corbyn says he backs investigations into British troops
10.00am: Corbyn says he opposes giving more resources to MI6
10:22am: McDonnell defends calling for Esther McVey to be lynched
10:40am: Yvette Cooper tells McDonnell to apologise. He doesn't.
That, and Corbyn also reaffirmed on Marr his commitment to open border migration and to spending half a trillion pounds of additional borrowed money. And that new ICM poll has appeared with a 15% lead for the Government, in mid-term.
It's still only 11am.
They're certainly testing to destruction the theory that 25% is their floor.
'Sir Craig Oliver, a former key aide to Mr Cameron, said the then home secretary failed to back the Remain campaign 13 times and was regarded by some as "an enemy agent".'
When will Theresa be taking her share of the responsibility for the Brexit vote?
I'm not sure these revelations are a problem for May.
What about the revelation that May advised Cameron to soft-peddle demands for restrictions on migration in his renegotiation. Those are surely a problem for her.
Theresa May was Home Secretary for six years and conspicuously failed to get immigration under control. As Prime Minister, she has already shot down a points-based system. How is it a revelation that May does not think much can be done about immigration?
She is more useless than cameron and he was an empty suit.
Panelbase Westminster VI poll for The Sunday Times
SNP 50% Con 21% Lab 16% LD 5% Greens 4% UKIP 4%
All going well for Corbyn, he just needs so say something horrific about Scotland and Labour will be under 10%.. We haven't seen the worst polling figures for Labour yet.. It could go to 19%
John McDonnell has indicated he has no regrets about calling fellow MP Esther McVey a "stain on humanity" and repeating a call to have her lynched ahead of the last election.
The Labour shadow chancellor said "sometimes you need to express honest anger" as he declined to apologise to Conservative McVey as they both appeared on Peston on Sunday.
He said that he was quoting a constituent - but added that his comments were justified by the "appalling" treatment of people with disabilities by the last government
Covering his bases there. He was quoting someone else, so it wasn't really him coming up with the words, but justifies them due to the policies she was espousing and tied it to being a plain speaker not hiding his anger at those policies. He really is slicker.
You add in a few 'my party at all costs' types. High floor for Labour.
High floor? Hmm, the 26% Labour are on today with ICM would be their lowest voteshare at a general election since the 21% they got in 1918!
I think @kle4 presumably means a high floor relative to the minor parties, which is undoubtedly correct. At this stage I would expect Corbyn Labour to poll somewhere around Michael Foot levels, or possibly a little worse - but not less than 25%.
That is what I meant, yes. Though personally I think they'll do better than that, though not by much.
Put aside the financial loss of the Union or the issue of the currency. If you cannot even prove yourself fit enough to run the most vital public services, who would trust you to run an Independent Scotland with all the other problems that creates for the us? Many local SNP associations are now in turmoil after recent Yes converts have taken over and pushed out long time SNP members and activists who did so much of the on ground work in local areas.
I'm from down South and obviously miss out on a lot of the nuances of the Scottish situation. Are the SNP really starting to suffer from their own bout of Momentumitis? Well...
Ha Ha , rabid Tory Fitanut spouting the usual Tory guff
Huh, I thought BlackRook was a LD, albeit with a realistic view of their prospects, don't know why.
Put aside the financial loss of the Union or the issue of the currency. If you cannot even prove yourself fit enough to run the most vital public services, who would trust you to run an Independent Scotland with all the other problems that creates for the us? Many local SNP associations are now in turmoil after recent Yes converts have taken over and pushed out long time SNP members and activists who did so much of the on ground work in local areas.
I'm from down South and obviously miss out on a lot of the nuances of the Scottish situation. Are the SNP really starting to suffer from their own bout of Momentumitis? Well...
Ha Ha , rabid Tory Fitanut spouting the usual Tory guff
Yawn.
Poor didums , someone not agree with your rosy specs Tory opinion
I know the polls are dire for Labour and Corbyn's personal ones are even worse. This isn't a rhetorical trick or a debating point. But how do you explain the huge size of the supposedly moribund and soon to be extinct Labour Party? Over half a million people voted in the leadership election. Even if all the Owen Smith supporters left Labour would still be comfortably the biggest party in the UK. If all Owen Smith's supporters formed their own party it would be the second biggest. Even a pressure group like Momentum has more members than people voted in the UKIP leadership election.
On paper it has about doubled in size since the 2015 General Election. It doesn't seem like an unreasonable assumption that new signs are going to have more enthusiasm than old timers, so its effective strength on the ground is likely to be even bigger.
Does this really sound like a party that can never win an election? As I say, I know all the logical arguments. But is logic that great a guide to outcomes in politics? And with a Labour Party that is so much bigger than the others, how many of our assumptions about the way elections work are still correct?
I won't deny if I was given the job of winning the next election and was going to get paid on results I'd choose the Blue team rather than the Red one. But I wouldn't spend the money till the votes were counted.
You need 10 million votes to win a GE.. 10 million are not going to vote Labour.. it just aint gonna happen. No shit has really been thrown at Corbyn.. wait till a GE.. People will not vote for a loon. They may not vote for May but there will likely be lots of abstentions or defections to LD, and no amount of activists will change that.
I point out just how different UK politics is this conference season compared to the last one. By 2020 who knows what it will look like. Even portraying Corbyn as a loon is not a guaranteed winning strategy. And activists do make a difference. I was within a heartbeat of voting UKIP at the local election that in my area coincided with the general election purely because they were the only party who had showed their face in the town. (Safe Con seat.)
9.46am : Corbyn tells Jewish peer who quit Labour over anti-Semitism to "reflect"
9:56am: Corbyn says he backs investigations into British troops
10.00am: Corbyn says he opposes giving more resources to MI6
10:22am: McDonnell defends calling for Esther McVey to be lynched
10:40am: Yvette Cooper tells McDonnell to apologise. He doesn't.
That, and Corbyn also reaffirmed on Marr his commitment to open border migration and to spending half a trillion pounds of additional borrowed money. And that new ICM poll has appeared with a 15% lead for the Government, in mid-term.
It's still only 11am.
They're certainly testing to destruction the theory that 25% is their floor.
It would be intriguing to see Labour's percentage modelled with big results in London, university towns and areas of high ethnic - especially muslim and afro-caribbean communities - concentration, with virtual wipeout elsewhere.
Panelbase Westminster VI poll for The Sunday Times
SNP 50% Con 21% Lab 16% LD 5% Greens 4% UKIP 4%
100% seats territory? Point was made earlier that even if independence talk backs off and even Holyrood dominance is curtailed, the SNP could well still dominate at Westminster. Wouldn't surprise me, frankly.
Tom Newton Dunn Great @afneil question to Heidi Alexander: which was most botched coup of 2016, against Erdogan in Turkey or yours against Corbyn? #bbcsp
Tom Newton Dunn Great @afneil question to Heidi Alexander: which was most botched coup of 2016, against Erdogan in Turkey or yours against Corbyn? #bbcsp
Panelbase Westminster VI poll for The Sunday Times
SNP 50% Con 21% Lab 16% LD 5% Greens 4% UKIP 4%
100% seats territory? Point was made earlier that even if independence talk backs off and even Holyrood dominance is curtailed, the SNP could well still dominate at Westminster. Wouldn't surprise me, frankly.
The Tories would probably win 2 seats on those numbers
Panelbase Westminster VI poll for The Sunday Times
SNP 50% Con 21% Lab 16% LD 5% Greens 4% UKIP 4%
100% seats territory? Point was made earlier that even if independence talk backs off and even Holyrood dominance is curtailed, the SNP could well still dominate at Westminster. Wouldn't surprise me, frankly.
Con has Mundell's seat, Lab loses Edinburgh south on this.
With this ICM poll, Labour are in the range I expected of 25% vs a 40%+ Conservative party. The next GE is Mrs May's to lose. Can she seize the opportunity?
9.46am : Corbyn tells Jewish peer who quit Labour over anti-Semitism to "reflect"
9:56am: Corbyn says he backs investigations into British troops
10.00am: Corbyn says he opposes giving more resources to MI6
10:22am: McDonnell defends calling for Esther McVey to be lynched
10:40am: Yvette Cooper tells McDonnell to apologise. He doesn't.
That, and Corbyn also reaffirmed on Marr his commitment to open border migration and to spending half a trillion pounds of additional borrowed money. And that new ICM poll has appeared with a 15% lead for the Government, in mid-term.
It's still only 11am.
It isn't often that I can honestly say My Face Aches - but it does this morning - I need a few hours off to recover or I'll split a lip laughing.
Put aside the financial loss of the Union or the issue of the currency. If you cannot even prove yourself fit enough to run the most vital public services, who would trust you to run an Independent Scotland with all the other problems that creates for the us? Many local SNP associations are now in turmoil after recent Yes converts have taken over and pushed out long time SNP members and activists who did so much of the on ground work in local areas.
I'm from down South and obviously miss out on a lot of the nuances of the Scottish situation. Are the SNP really starting to suffer from their own bout of Momentumitis? Well...
I dont know either but I'll save an snp supporter the trouble and say
Yeah right, most popular in Scotland, bunch of useless donkeys wishing that was happening, I'm not a fanatic I just think everything is good for the SNP all the time, donkeys again.
That's a good, wee party trick you've got going there, but d'ye think it might be getting a bit repetitive?
Perhaps so, but is it less repetitive than the automated response it is mocking? Respectfully, I have to say I do not think it is. And though reasonable people may differ on that point, it is certainly less openly insulting of any hint of criticism or even questioning of one's favoured view. It is also entirely accurate in tone if not word, not even an exaggeration.
It's certainly not the only repetitive partisan response we see, but it is one of the more aggressive ones, even if '52-48' as a response to any mention of Brexit misses the point more often (sorry Sunil).
Rest assured I am more than happy to extend it, and have, to other issues. So thank you for your comment, but I'm fairly comfortable I am still just varied enough.
The pompous, sanctimonious tone from a denizen of a site that has had headline articles and endless btl comments predicting the downfall of the SNP (who could forget the hilarious proposition that good SNP polling was down to the interviewers having English accents?) is certainly a joy to contemplate.
Panelbase Westminster VI poll for The Sunday Times
SNP 50% Con 21% Lab 16% LD 5% Greens 4% UKIP 4%
100% seats territory? Point was made earlier that even if independence talk backs off and even Holyrood dominance is curtailed, the SNP could well still dominate at Westminster. Wouldn't surprise me, frankly.
The Tories would probably win 2 seats on those numbers
And I suppose as low as they are on it cannot rule out the LDs clinging on in Orkney and Shetland, depending on if Carmichael is standing and whether the locals will still care about what he did by then.
Panelbase Westminster VI poll for The Sunday Times
SNP 50% Con 21% Lab 16% LD 5% Greens 4% UKIP 4%
100% seats territory? Point was made earlier that even if independence talk backs off and even Holyrood dominance is curtailed, the SNP could well still dominate at Westminster. Wouldn't surprise me, frankly.
Looking back to 2015 - they underestimated SNP, Con and LD and overestimated the rest (Lab/Grn/UKIP/rest).
Panelbase Westminster VI poll for The Sunday Times
SNP 50% Con 21% Lab 16% LD 5% Greens 4% UKIP 4%
100% seats territory? Point was made earlier that even if independence talk backs off and even Holyrood dominance is curtailed, the SNP could well still dominate at Westminster. Wouldn't surprise me, frankly.
The SNP will almost certainly lose seats at the next Westminster election but those losses need to be kept in perspective. They will still utterly dominate Scottish representation at Westminster with at least 85% of the seats. The prospects of Scotland producing more Tory MPs than Labour ones continue to improve but we are still talking small numbers.
FWIW I suspect we have seen peak Nat but they are so far ahead they will continue to dominate for a long time, especially in FPTP elections.
'Sir Craig Oliver, a former key aide to Mr Cameron, said the then home secretary failed to back the Remain campaign 13 times and was regarded by some as "an enemy agent".'
When will Theresa be taking her share of the responsibility for the Brexit vote?
I'm not sure these revelations are a problem for May.
Not in Leavistan maybe..
We all live there now.
What I find most entertaining about Leavistan as coined by @foxinsoxuk is that those who think XS-stan is a big problem to our borders, security and national culture.
Leavers are for Britannia in all her many ways developed over centuries - and the sovereign right to continue to be so.
I remember nonsense about 1992 when lots of articles were published explaining that the UK had been moved into a 1 party state like Japan (which was rather more of a compliment in those days) and how investors no longer needed to worry about "democratic risk". All turned out to be complete tosh of course.
Nature abhors a vacuum and the people need a choice. It doesn't have to be Labour but they are very much in pole position and are going to be very hard to shift.
Absolutely right, David.
Think of a single Western, developed, country which has been a one party state for more than even five or six years: no country in Europe, North America, or Australia/New Zealand. It simply doesn't happen. (Japan or Mexico are the only near examples I can think of. And one of them isn't Western. And the other's not a developed country.)
I think democracy tends to be naturally self balancing. The Conservatives, if left unchallenged for a period, will inevitably move right, because satisfying the base become more important than winning votes from waverers. And this leaves a space that is then filled. Whether it is filled by UKIP, the Greens, the LibDems or someone else is beside the point: it will be filled.
Put asiand pushed out long time SNP members and activists who did so much of the on ground work in local areas.
I'm from down South and obviously miss out on a lot of the nuances of the Scottish situation. Are the SNP really starting to suffer from their own bout of Momentumitis? Well...
I dont know either but I'll save an snp supporter the trouble and say
Yeah right, most popular in Scotland, bunch of useless donkeys wishing that was happening, I'm not a fanatic I just think everything is good for the SNP all the time, donkeys again.
That's a good, wee party trick you've got going there, but d'ye think it might be getting a bit repetitive?
Perhaps so, but is it less repetitive than the automated response it is mocking? Respectfully, I have to say I do not think it isot word, not even an exaggeration.
It's certainly not the only repetitive partisan response we see, but it is one of the more aggressive ones, even if '52-48' as a response to any mention of Brexit misses the point more often (sorry Sunil).
Rest assured I am more than happy to extend it, and have, to other issues. So thank you for your comment, but I'm fairly comfortable I am still just varied enough.
The pompou(who could forget the hilarious proposition that good SNP polling was down to the interviewers having English accents?) is certainly a joy to contemplate.
I'll hold my hand up to sanctimony, but I think you'll find I've long predicted the continued success of the SNP and their fight for independence, so does that give me the right to call out SNP fanboyism, because I happen to think the SNP's best days are still to come? Because I am a unionist, albeit one who thinks independence is likely to succeed, I am not permitted to mock the automated partisan rudeness that occurs at any mention of the SNP not being ordained by heaven to succeed, because other unionists do predict the downfall of the SNP on spurious grounds? Top notch logic, sir.
I think you're picking the wrong target, quite frankly. I don't like rudeness. I cannot take it, so I don't give it out (not saying I've never slipped up, as malcolmg could tell you when I've whinged at him, but as a rule). And that may make me sanctimonious and smug, but I think that means I am in a stronger position to mock those who are rude.
Panelbase Westminster VI poll for The Sunday Times
SNP 50% Con 21% Lab 16% LD 5% Greens 4% UKIP 4%
100% seats territory? Point was made earlier that even if independence talk backs off and even Holyrood dominance is curtailed, the SNP could well still dominate at Westminster. Wouldn't surprise me, frankly.
No, on that he cons would win ay least 2 of the 3 border seats. And Lib Dems would hold Orkney/Shetland.
SNP 50% Tories 21% Labour 16% Lib Dem 5% Greens 4% UKIP 4%
SNP still hold dominant position. Lib Dems statistically tied for 4th/5th/6th. Tories now clear in second place, but still very weak. Scottish Labour a pale shadow of its former self.
Punch these and the ICM GB poll numbers into Electoral Calculus, and based on the revised boundaries the Tories win an overall majority of 99 and the SNP continues to hold nearly every seat in Scotland (though of course this assumes uniform swing and does not account for local factors.)
9.46am : Corbyn tells Jewish peer who quit Labour over anti-Semitism to "reflect"
9:56am: Corbyn says he backs investigations into British troops
10.00am: Corbyn says he opposes giving more resources to MI6
10:22am: McDonnell defends calling for Esther McVey to be lynched
10:40am: Yvette Cooper tells McDonnell to apologise. He doesn't.
That, and Corbyn also reaffirmed on Marr his commitment to open border migration and to spending half a trillion pounds of additional borrowed money. And that new ICM poll has appeared with a 15% lead for the Government, in mid-term.
It's still only 11am.
They're certainly testing to destruction the theory that 25% is their floor.
It would be intriguing to see Labour's percentage modelled with big results in London, university towns and areas of high ethnic - especially muslim and afro-caribbean communities - concentration, with virtual wipeout elsewhere.
It is where they are heading.
Labour seats (on current boundaries) under threat would include most of their gains from the Tories in 2015, Southampton Test, Stoke South, NE Derbyshire, Newcastle under Lyme, Darlington, Middlesborough East, Halifax, Dewsbury, Birminham Northfield, Bristol East, about 4 or 5 in Wales, Harrow West, Eltham, Westminster North, with probably only Croydon Central and Brighton Kemptown vulnerable the other way.
Mr. Taffys(2), on Cooper: reminiscent of Scottish Labour, in that regard.
Mr. 1000, haven't the Germans had whichever Merkel's party is in government for a prolonged period? I know that's a coalition rather than single party government, but still worth noting.
And yet labour has done reasonably well at local level and where they've had to defend MPs in by-elections.
The electorate is funny. They either haven't really noticed labour's slide into extremism, or they don;t really care, right now.
The by-elections have been non events in my view due to the safe nature of the seats and the low turnout.
They did poorly in Scotland and Wales in the locals and Khan won London against Goldsmith with a repeat of the GE2015 percentages.
I think Labour Leave will take on a new meaning post-EURef judging by the yougov findings the other day. In the same way that SIndy was the trigger for mass desertion to the SNP north of the border, I think we'll see the same south of it.
A lot of long term Labour voters will have found themselves thinking Labour are on the wrong side of the argument and it was such an all consuming argument that people will not let go - just like SIndy.
Bill Mitchell Want a joke? New WAPO Poll with Clinton only +2 uses a (wait for it) D+10 sample. Are you KIDDING me? These assholes just never stop.
Most polls have a higher democrat sample because there are more registered democrats. The ignorance of political pundits about statistics is laughable.
Put aside the financial loss of the Union or the issue of the currency. If you cannot even prove yourself fit enough to run the most vital public services, who would trust you to run an Independent Scotland with all the other problems that creates for the us? Many local SNP associations are now in turmoil after recent Yes converts have taken over and pushed out long time SNP members and activists who did so much of the on ground work in local areas.
I'm from down South and obviously miss out on a lot of the nuances of the Scottish situation. Are the SNP really starting to suffer from their own bout of Momentumitis? Well...
Ha Ha , rabid Tory Fitanut spouting the usual Tory guff
Yawn.
Poor didums , someone not agree with your rosy specs Tory opinion
Trump brining up Gennifer Flowers means it's now open season on Trump infidelities.
Maybe, but the Flowers stuff is all very much public domain, and Hillary will be a lot more upset with the public's new history lesson than Trump would ever be.
I'm still waiting for a Republican PAC to make a House of Cards trailer showing the Clintons in place of the lead characters.
If they've really got balls, they'll do it with actual footage, will make a couple of days of headlines as HBO try and get it taken down - while everyone is talking about the comparison between the Underwoods and the Clintons.
That Trump had affairs has already been done - sure it'll get brought up again, but he's never claimed to be an unflawed person. And he wasn't President at the time or Gov of Arkansas.
It's pretty thin whataboutery that doesn't deflect much from the core problem - the Clintons have a crypt full of skeletons.
Bill lying on 60 Minutes is a corker. He later confessed under oath that he'd had a sexual relationship with Flowers. Was this the meaning of 'is' stuff? It was so absurd at the time - makes OJ Simpson look innocent.
The last two minutes of that video are pure House of Cards. The willingness to do and say absolutely anything in the quest for the pursuit of power.
And remember in all this, that Bill later admitted under oath that the allegations against him were true.
Weird seeing Hillary being such an effective communicator back then. How did she become so crap?
She wasn't a politician then, she's been a Senator for eight years, and Secretary of State for four years, plus eight years as First Lady, she's been denuded by becoming a politician, and speaking like a politician.
It helped back then she had more of a southern accent I think. Sounds friendlier.Like scouse.
Comments
Labour can still summon the support of voters who are enthusiastic about, or at least willing to consider, a hard Left platform (that's around 15-20% straight away) plus a number of still committed (or captive) groups including working-age people who are long-term benefit dependent, unionised public sector employees, poorer black and Muslim voters, student radicals, quite a lot of metro left-libs, and the surviving Labour tribal loyalty vote. Allowing for boundary change and with no likelihood of a revival in Scotland, the defeat they would be expected to suffer under such a scenario would actually be slightly less disastrous, in seat proportional terms, than that of John Major in 1997: Labour holds a large number of urban seats in England and Wales with mountainous majorities that are only vulnerable in the event of a more-or-less total collapse in its support.
Let us remember what their hero told us in January 2010:
" we cannot go on with the Gordon Brown model of growth, which is government debt, consumer debt, banking debt. That is what delivered this enormous crisis for Britain.
...
at the moment we borrow money from the Chinese in order to buy the things that the Chinese make for us. "
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8489984.stm
The brave words of yesteryear are quite a contrast with a predicted BoP deficit of over £30bn for 2016Q2.
With the latest government borrowing data released its time for an update on Osborne's record:
Predicted government borrowing
2010/11 £149bn
2011/12 £116bn
2012/13 £89bn
2013/14 £60bn
2014/15 £37bn
2015/16 £20bn
2016/17 surplus
Actual government borrowing
2010/11 £137bn
2011/12 £115bn
2012/13 £123bn
2013/14 £104bn
2014/15 £95bn
2015/16 £76bn
2016/17 £34bn (5 months)
An overall over-borrowing of £213bn.
The mushy centre is not where the public are, nor the memberships.''
How Corbyn can rely on his own MPs to vote in clutch commons matters is surely a topic for debate.
It has been claimed the nominal majority is 12 but is it that close, really?
A Labour Party with no sensible external policies and internal blood-letting will be lucky to get 20%. If the non-Momentum people interviewed at Conference yesterday looked on the verge of giving up, why should their underwhelmed fellow travelling voters be any more likely to be arsed to give them their vote?
The more likely scenario is that Corbyn will significantly underpoll EdM and be slaughtered. That Corbyn Labour will actually do better than last time, and take enough votes directly from the Conservatives to mount a halfway decent challenge to them, seems close to a logical impossibility.
Mr. Eagles, did you see the Benn tweet I mentioned below?
A 15 point lead in mid-term blues+political honeymoon territory is not bad.
It has assets (brand, data, organisation, premises). Its workers are its members and supporters who do the grunt work and provide funds. They are also the shareholders who own the business. MPs are also workers - they are the salespeople. The electorate are its customers. The Board of Directors are the Shadow Cabinet led by the CEO.
Without customers or workers they are out of business. At the moment, they have a lot of workers, disgruntled salespeople and are losing customers. Nevertheless the shareholders have just reconfirmed the appointment of the CEO who is unpopular with the salespeople who feel he is debasing the product and the brand.
A new Board of Directors is about to be appointed. The CEO recommends to the shareholders who have the last word but he is aware that he needs the support of the salespeople. He could fire them but many of them have loyal customers, or he could consult them before putting the appointments to a shareholder vote.
http://tinyurl.com/jr3pbtp
'Exclusive: SNP must take share of responsibility for Brexit vote, says Theresa May'
http://tinyurl.com/hhysc9n
When will Theresa be taking her share of the responsibility for the Brexit vote?
Poor Tony Benn.
We already, of course, had 18 years of uninterrupted Conservative majority rule at the back end of the last century, and there is no reason to suppose that the Tories cannot emulate (or even outdo) this in future, regardless of how long-serving and potentially tired and jaded a far-future Tory administration becomes - just so long as the Opposition is badly divided and extreme.
A forced choice between voting in the Conservatives and the Far Left is, for the nation, a bit like being made to choose between sitting on an old sofa or an iron spike. No matter how knackered, saggy and busted the sofa is, and no matter how many times people are given the chance to change their minds, they will always choose the settee over the spike.
If the Corbyn movement thinks that it can sit as a rump on the green benches for 10, 15 or 20 years and wait for voters to embrace them, simply out of ennui for the Tories and for want of any better alternative, then it is liable to be disappointed.
Talk about underestimating his nous.
EDIT - just looked it up - those are superb reviews from c10k guests
https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Hotel_Review-g45963-d1022061-Reviews-Trump_International_Hotel_Las_Vegas-Las_Vegas_Nevada.html
I'm not sure these revelations are a problem for May.
Mr. Eagles, thought you'd like it.
Mr. Mark, reminds me of one of my favourite I, Claudius lines. Tiberius (I think speaking to Drusus, his brother) said of his mother:
They say a snake bit her. And died.
John McDonnell has indicated he has no regrets about calling fellow MP Esther McVey a "stain on humanity" and repeating a call to have her lynched ahead of the last election.
The Labour shadow chancellor said "sometimes you need to express honest anger" as he declined to apologise to Conservative McVey as they both appeared on Peston on Sunday.
He said that he was quoting a constituent - but added that his comments were justified by the "appalling" treatment of people with disabilities by the last government
http://www.itv.com/news/update/2016-09-25/mcdonnell-wont-apologise-for-stain-on-humanity-comment/
A complete comparison with the petty political point scoring and power grabbing which dominated the Brown and Osborne budgets.
9.46am : Corbyn tells Jewish peer who quit Labour over anti-Semitism to "reflect"
9:56am: Corbyn says he backs investigations into British troops
10.00am: Corbyn says he opposes giving more resources to MI6
10:22am: McDonnell defends calling for Esther McVey to be lynched
10:40am: Yvette Cooper tells McDonnell to apologise. He doesn't.
That, and Corbyn also reaffirmed on Marr his commitment to open border migration and to spending half a trillion pounds of additional borrowed money. And that new ICM poll has appeared with a 15% lead for the Government, in mid-term.
It's still only 11am.
It's certainly not the only repetitive partisan response we see, but it is one of the more aggressive ones, even if '52-48' as a response to any mention of Brexit misses the point more often (sorry Sunil).
Rest assured I am more than happy to extend it, and have, to other issues. So thank you for your comment, but I'm fairly comfortable I am still just varied enough.
We all live there now.
The Chart is interesting, especially the end of it: http://www.ukpolitical.info/General_election_polls.htm
We still have a newish PM but we are also getting close to the point when you would expect the opposition to be ahead in the Parliament. Labour broke significantly ahead in April 2012 and pretty much held that lead until the election campaign itself.
Can swingback really work in the Tories' favour from this perspective? Surely not.
Bill Mitchell
Want a joke? New WAPO Poll with Clinton only +2 uses a (wait for it) D+10 sample. Are you KIDDING me? These assholes just never stop.
52% voted leave in spite of all the tales of woe while 25% seem intent on voting for Corbyn.
Even if you allow a slight degree of crossover between the harder left and Leave I'd say the pro EU, scarcely principled, effete school of politicking (Blair/Cameron/Clegg) is pretty much on the canvas.
Corbyn cult love haiku
Michael Deacon
I love this book https://t.co/J1PNUksIGz
SNP 50%
Con 21%
Lab 16%
LD 5%
Greens 4%
UKIP 4%
It is where they are heading.
Great @afneil question to Heidi Alexander: which was most botched coup of 2016, against Erdogan in Turkey or yours against Corbyn? #bbcsp
And yet labour has done reasonably well at local level and where they've had to defend MPs in by-elections.
The electorate is funny. They either haven't really noticed labour's slide into extremism, or they don;t really care, right now.
FWIW I suspect we have seen peak Nat but they are so far ahead they will continue to dominate for a long time, especially in FPTP elections.
Leavers are for Britannia in all her many ways developed over centuries - and the sovereign right to continue to be so.
Many labour MPs are simply careeerists. Faced with having to fight, faced with having to DO something, they are being utterly exposed.
Think of a single Western, developed, country which has been a one party state for more than even five or six years: no country in Europe, North America, or Australia/New Zealand. It simply doesn't happen. (Japan or Mexico are the only near examples I can think of. And one of them isn't Western. And the other's not a developed country.)
I think democracy tends to be naturally self balancing. The Conservatives, if left unchallenged for a period, will inevitably move right, because satisfying the base become more important than winning votes from waverers. And this leaves a space that is then filled. Whether it is filled by UKIP, the Greens, the LibDems or someone else is beside the point: it will be filled.
That McDonnell is a person for whom politics and violence are interlinked.
I think you're picking the wrong target, quite frankly. I don't like rudeness. I cannot take it, so I don't give it out (not saying I've never slipped up, as malcolmg could tell you when I've whinged at him, but as a rule). And that may make me sanctimonious and smug, but I think that means I am in a stronger position to mock those who are rude.
Very much looking forward to SLab finally being routed out of Glasgow City Council in May. Long overdue.
UK general election
SNP 50%
Tories 21%
Labour 16%
Lib Dem 5%
Greens 4%
UKIP 4%
SNP still hold dominant position. Lib Dems statistically tied for 4th/5th/6th. Tories now clear in second place, but still very weak. Scottish Labour a pale shadow of its former self.
Punch these and the ICM GB poll numbers into Electoral Calculus, and based on the revised boundaries the Tories win an overall majority of 99 and the SNP continues to hold nearly every seat in Scotland (though of course this assumes uniform swing and does not account for local factors.)
Mr. Taffys(2), on Cooper: reminiscent of Scottish Labour, in that regard.
Mr. 1000, haven't the Germans had whichever Merkel's party is in government for a prolonged period? I know that's a coalition rather than single party government, but still worth noting.
They did poorly in Scotland and Wales in the locals and Khan won London against Goldsmith with a repeat of the GE2015 percentages.
I think Labour Leave will take on a new meaning post-EURef judging by the yougov findings the other day. In the same way that SIndy was the trigger for mass desertion to the SNP north of the border, I think we'll see the same south of it.
A lot of long term Labour voters will have found themselves thinking Labour are on the wrong side of the argument and it was such an all consuming argument that people will not let go - just like SIndy.
Thanks Mr Morris I will write out 10 times LOL!!
Like McVey, think she should come back.