Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » At least the divisions within LAB at the Liverpool conferen

SystemSystem Posts: 6,666
edited September 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » At least the divisions within LAB at the Liverpool conference have not quite got as bad as this

For the second time in a week, Georgian politicians got into a physical fight during a TV debate ahead of the upcoming elections. pic.twitter.com/e6bk9bBo1c

Read the full story here


«1

Comments

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 28,699
    edited September 2016
    First!

    Or should I say tsrif?
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Second!
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 2,863
    "At least the divisions within LAB at the Liverpool conference have not quite got as bad as this."

    Yet.
  • TomsToms Posts: 1,726

    "At least the divisions within LAB at the Liverpool conference have not quite got as bad as this."

    Yet.

    I doubt they have the vigour.
  • On topic, Give it time

    Off topic, Forget bungs, this is explosive

    The same individual, who used to manage a high profile team, had also fixed a game, Mr Pagliara claimed. The manager’s representatives yesterday described the allegations as “completely false”. In several instances, he admitted that he had personally paid the officials “bungs” to secure deals.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 34,390
    edited September 2016
    Nobody gives a flying f##k about Labour...its all about the match fixing and kickback allegations in the footy. This is looking like the Telegraph have got themselves an enormous scandal (they have been at it 10 months).

    Having seen the latest video, some people are going to prison.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 37,457
    Glorious seventh!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 44,385
    Do they not know to cut away quickly when the fisticuffs start by now?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 34,390
    edited September 2016
    Exclusive: Cardiff held inquiry into deal with Sam Allardyce’s West Ham

    Cardiff City football club launched an investigation into a player transfer after auditors discovered evidence of unexplained payments, The Daily Telegraph has learnt.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/27/exclusive-cardiff-held-inquiry-into-deal-with-sam-allardyces-wes/

    Those damn bean counters....
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 10,836

    On topic, Give it time

    Off topic, Forget bungs, this is explosive

    The same individual, who used to manage a high profile team, had also fixed a game, Mr Pagliara claimed. The manager’s representatives yesterday described the allegations as “completely false”. In several instances, he admitted that he had personally paid the officials “bungs” to secure deals.

    Blimey.
  • FPT
    Sean_F said:

    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    First mars ship named - "Hard gold"

    An appropiate name for an overpriced space coffin.

    Although we can save countless of lives if Musk is the first to try his own spaceship.
    Tell that to Elcano or the crew of the Pinta. The world would be so much better if they hadn't embarked.

    Life without some risk is no life. We all take calculated (and uncalculated) risks: sometimes these risks are how the world progresses.

    Avoiding risks means stagnation; doubly so for a society.
    Well the earth was already proven to be round by 1492, and portuguese explorers where already on the high seas with ships that could float and sail the distance (a critical difference with Musk's plans).

    Colombus was proposing something that could be done with aleady existing and tested technology, Musk is proposing something that can't be done with existing and tested technology.

    Musk is simply trying to sell a Star Treck episode to Wall Street, not to actually make a trip to Mars.
    Educated people knew the Earth was round in ancient times.

    But sailing West was a huge risk in 1492. And, we owe a lot to people who are willing to blow fortunes and/or risk their lives purely in order to satisfy intellectual curiosity.
    Columbus and others thought that they could sail straight over to Asia by sailing west, There was no knowledge of the New World, and Ptolemy (1st cen. AD) underestimated the circumference on his world map.
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,776
    Ok, but being serious...

    Who would win in a fight out of John McDonnell and Hilary Benn?
  • "Morrison was previously involved in an alleged row with Allardyce over agents, after the former West Ham manager reportedly put pressure on him to sign up with Mark Curtis, who is Allardyce’s own representative. When the player refused to do so, he was dropped from the team, according to insiders."

    Now what was it that Big Sam said on the video....
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 75,086
    edited September 2016
    tlg86 said:

    On topic, Give it time

    Off topic, Forget bungs, this is explosive

    The same individual, who used to manage a high profile team, had also fixed a game, Mr Pagliara claimed. The manager’s representatives yesterday described the allegations as “completely false”. In several instances, he admitted that he had personally paid the officials “bungs” to secure deals.

    Blimey.
    Bungs is priced in.

    Match fixing takes this to a whole new level.

    Mr Pagliara, an unlicensed agent who was banned from football for five years in 2005 for match-fixing.
  • Essexit said:

    Ok, but being serious...

    Who would win in a fight out of John McDonnell and Hilary Benn?

    Hillary Clinton?
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited September 2016

    On topic, Give it time

    Off topic, Forget bungs, this is explosive

    The same individual, who used to manage a high profile team, had also fixed a game, Mr Pagliara claimed. The manager’s representatives yesterday described the allegations as “completely false”. In several instances, he admitted that he had personally paid the officials “bungs” to secure deals.

    OK who is the ex-manager who used to manage a high profile team ?

    And which game was it that he fixed ?
  • Re. West Ham United

    I'm officially fearful for West Ham's chances this season :(
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,536
    kle4 said:

    Do they not know to cut away quickly when the fisticuffs start by now?

    What? And lose the ratings?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 44,385
    Essexit said:

    Ok, but being serious...

    Who would win in a fight out of John McDonnell and Hilary Benn?

    John McDonnell, no question. Hard left ideologues are tenacious as hell, you could beat him down over and over but he would never accept defeat.
  • TomsToms Posts: 1,726
    Essexit said:

    Ok, but being serious...

    Who would win in a fight out of John McDonnell and Hilary Benn?

    Bring back "Spitting Image".
  • Speedy said:

    On topic, Give it time

    Off topic, Forget bungs, this is explosive

    The same individual, who used to manage a high profile team, had also fixed a game, Mr Pagliara claimed. The manager’s representatives yesterday described the allegations as “completely false”. In several instances, he admitted that he had personally paid the officials “bungs” to secure deals.

    OK who is the ex-manager who used to manage a high profile team ?

    And which game was it that he fixed ?
    I think we can guess several of the list of 8 from the unsubtle hints, but not going to get myself or OGH into trouble.
  • Say it ain't so, Joe.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 25,603
    Glad someone takes their politics seriously.
  • SeanT said:

    tlg86 said:

    On topic, Give it time

    Off topic, Forget bungs, this is explosive

    The same individual, who used to manage a high profile team, had also fixed a game, Mr Pagliara claimed. The manager’s representatives yesterday described the allegations as “completely false”. In several instances, he admitted that he had personally paid the officials “bungs” to secure deals.

    Blimey.
    Bungs is priced in.

    Match fixing takes this to a whole new level.

    Mr Pagliara, an unlicensed agent who was banned from football for five years in 2005 for match-fixing.
    Match fixing means chokey
    Yup, we have some of the strictest laws in the world when it comes to sporting corruption.

    Just ask those Pakistani players, who were convicted not for match fixing, but spot fixing.
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,776
    kle4 said:

    Essexit said:

    Ok, but being serious...

    Who would win in a fight out of John McDonnell and Hilary Benn?

    John McDonnell, no question. Hard left ideologues are tenacious as hell, you could beat him down over and over but he would never accept defeat.
    He'd be like that knight in the Holy Grail.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 2,863
    Toms said:

    "At least the divisions within LAB at the Liverpool conference have not quite got as bad as this."

    Yet.

    I doubt they have the vigour.
    They seem to possess the energy for spitting and brick hurling. I dare say that brawling could be added to the repertoire.
    Essexit said:

    Ok, but being serious...

    Who would win in a fight out of John McDonnell and Hilary Benn?

    McDonnell. Most likely he'd invite his mates in balaclavas round to dish out the beating for him.
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    FPT

    Sean_F said:

    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    First mars ship named - "Hard gold"

    An appropiate name for an overpriced space coffin.

    Although we can save countless of lives if Musk is the first to try his own spaceship.
    Tell that to Elcano or the crew of the Pinta. The world would be so much better if they hadn't embarked.

    Life without some risk is no life. We all take calculated (and uncalculated) risks: sometimes these risks are how the world progresses.

    Avoiding risks means stagnation; doubly so for a society.
    Well the earth was already proven to be round by 1492, and portuguese explorers where already on the high seas with ships that could float and sail the distance (a critical difference with Musk's plans).

    Colombus was proposing something that could be done with aleady existing and tested technology, Musk is proposing something that can't be done with existing and tested technology.

    Musk is simply trying to sell a Star Treck episode to Wall Street, not to actually make a trip to Mars.
    Educated people knew the Earth was round in ancient times.

    But sailing West was a huge risk in 1492. And, we owe a lot to people who are willing to blow fortunes and/or risk their lives purely in order to satisfy intellectual curiosity.
    Columbus and others thought that they could sail straight over to Asia by sailing west, There was no knowledge of the New World, and Ptolemy (1st cen. AD) underestimated the circumference on his world map.
    But America was worth discovering. We know already that Mars is an unproductive dump, so why bother? It would be worth sending a team of scientists there to have a look for signs of life and so on, but what on earth (ho, ho) would the point be of a city there? Nothing to eat, drink, breathe or do.
  • Hands up everyone who believes that precisely one match was fixed.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,279
    Hmm the Labour party's problem is worse than the physical punch up. In fact what Labour needs is a huge punch up. It could prove cathartic. The worst idea is the one they are pursuing of having a problem and trying to pretend that they don't.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 34,390
    edited September 2016

    SeanT said:

    tlg86 said:

    On topic, Give it time

    Off topic, Forget bungs, this is explosive

    The same individual, who used to manage a high profile team, had also fixed a game, Mr Pagliara claimed. The manager’s representatives yesterday described the allegations as “completely false”. In several instances, he admitted that he had personally paid the officials “bungs” to secure deals.

    Blimey.
    Bungs is priced in.

    Match fixing takes this to a whole new level.

    Mr Pagliara, an unlicensed agent who was banned from football for five years in 2005 for match-fixing.
    Match fixing means chokey
    Yup, we have some of the strictest laws in the world when it comes to sporting corruption.

    Just ask those Pakistani players, who were convicted not for match fixing, but spot fixing.
    I wonder if the Telegraph are building up to something like this on camera?

    It will be a bit disappointing if all they have is the word of the banned agent, as all the rest will just say he is a proven liar and all round dodgy guy.

    Panorama messed it up when they did the same sting in 2006, they got all the agents blabbing and got the cash ready to bribe a very very famous manager and then the story leaked and said manager pulled out of the deal.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 25,603

    Hands up everyone who believes that precisely one match was fixed.

    Does that work on the internet? Have I missed a new app?
    But I think it is unlikely BPL matches have been fixed. Too much scrutiny. Lower leagues without the cameras much, much safer.
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    Essexit said:

    kle4 said:

    Essexit said:

    Ok, but being serious...

    Who would win in a fight out of John McDonnell and Hilary Benn?

    John McDonnell, no question. Hard left ideologues are tenacious as hell, you could beat him down over and over but he would never accept defeat.
    He'd be like that knight in the Holy Grail.
    The Black Knight of colour.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 3,896

    FPT

    Sean_F said:

    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    First mars ship named - "Hard gold"

    An appropiate name for an overpriced space coffin.

    Although we can save countless of lives if Musk is the first to try his own spaceship.
    Tell that to Elcano or the crew of the Pinta. The world would be so much better if they hadn't embarked.

    Life without some risk is no life. We all take calculated (and uncalculated) risks: sometimes these risks are how the world progresses.

    Avoiding risks means stagnation; doubly so for a society.
    Well the earth was already proven to be round by 1492, and portuguese explorers where already on the high seas with ships that could float and sail the distance (a critical difference with Musk's plans).

    Colombus was proposing something that could be done with aleady existing and tested technology, Musk is proposing something that can't be done with existing and tested technology.

    Musk is simply trying to sell a Star Treck episode to Wall Street, not to actually make a trip to Mars.
    Educated people knew the Earth was round in ancient times.

    But sailing West was a huge risk in 1492. And, we owe a lot to people who are willing to blow fortunes and/or risk their lives purely in order to satisfy intellectual curiosity.
    Columbus and others thought that they could sail straight over to Asia by sailing west, There was no knowledge of the New World, and Ptolemy (1st cen. AD) underestimated the circumference on his world map.
    Eratosthenes in about the third century BC, I believe, got an incredibly accurate earth circumference by calculating the angle between a well on the Tropic of Cancer in S Egypt ( where the sun was visible overhead ) and his latitude in Alexandria on Midsummer's day. Just used Pi and pencil and paper.
  • Ishmael_X said:

    FPT

    Sean_F said:

    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    First mars ship named - "Hard gold"

    An appropiate name for an overpriced space coffin.

    Although we can save countless of lives if Musk is the first to try his own spaceship.
    Tell that to Elcano or the crew of the Pinta. The world would be so much better if they hadn't embarked.

    Life without some risk is no life. We all take calculated (and uncalculated) risks: sometimes these risks are how the world progresses.

    Avoiding risks means stagnation; doubly so for a society.
    Well the earth was already proven to be round by 1492, and portuguese explorers where already on the high seas with ships that could float and sail the distance (a critical difference with Musk's plans).

    Colombus was proposing something that could be done with aleady existing and tested technology, Musk is proposing something that can't be done with existing and tested technology.

    Musk is simply trying to sell a Star Treck episode to Wall Street, not to actually make a trip to Mars.
    Educated people knew the Earth was round in ancient times.

    But sailing West was a huge risk in 1492. And, we owe a lot to people who are willing to blow fortunes and/or risk their lives purely in order to satisfy intellectual curiosity.
    Columbus and others thought that they could sail straight over to Asia by sailing west, There was no knowledge of the New World, and Ptolemy (1st cen. AD) underestimated the circumference on his world map.
    But America was worth discovering. We know already that Mars is an unproductive dump, so why bother? It would be worth sending a team of scientists there to have a look for signs of life and so on, but what on earth (ho, ho) would the point be of a city there? Nothing to eat, drink, breathe or do.
    Why does a dog lick its balls?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 34,390
    edited September 2016
    The story of the manager shaking down players for a few grand...Even by corrupt and greedy sods, that is incredible. PL manager earn £1 million+ a year and he is shaking them down for an extra £4k a month.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 11,397
    Gah. It is not called EPL.
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    edited September 2016
    If only football participants were public school educated all would be well.

    What can you expect from oiks.

    I tried and failed to get my grammar school to switch from rugby to football. The head took little notice of the petition I raised.

  • SeanT said:

    Hands up everyone who believes that precisely one match was fixed.

    I would be genuinely surprised if an EPL match was fixed in recent years. How would you do it, and why?

    There's so much money in the game already, why risk prison for a bit more? How do you persuade entire teams of millionaires to throw a game for pocket money?

    Maybe an FA cup match or a League Cup game (whatever they call it, now). EPL, hmm.
    As we have seen with Cricket and Tennis, you don't need to fix the result of the match. You can just fix certain events.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 18,013
    The obvious question is was any match fixing that did happen common knowledge or was it restricted to a few bent managers and officials (and players).
  • SeanT said:

    Hands up everyone who believes that precisely one match was fixed.

    I would be genuinely surprised if an EPL match was fixed in recent years. How would you do it, and why?

    There's so much money in the game already, why risk prison for a bit more? How do you persuade entire teams of millionaires to throw a game for pocket money?

    Maybe an FA cup match or a League Cup game (whatever they call it, now). EPL, hmm.
    Zero is the most likely number. But if it isn't zero, it isn't one.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 75,086
    edited September 2016

    The story of the manager shaking down players for a few grand...Even by corrupt and greedy sods, that is incredible. PL manager earn £1 million+ a year and he is shaking them down for an extra £4k a month.

    You'd be surprised at the idiocy and greed of some people.

    I knew of someone who was earning over 600k a year, and he was fleecing his expenses for an extra £200 quid a month.

    Sometimes it can be a power thing.
  • FPT

    Sean_F said:

    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    First mars ship named - "Hard gold"

    An appropiate name for an overpriced space coffin.

    Although we can save countless of lives if Musk is the first to try his own spaceship.
    Tell that to Elcano or the crew of the Pinta. The world would be so much better if they hadn't embarked.

    Life without some risk is no life. We all take calculated (and uncalculated) risks: sometimes these risks are how the world progresses.

    Avoiding risks means stagnation; doubly so for a society.
    Well the earth was already proven to be round by 1492, and portuguese explorers where already on the high seas with ships that could float and sail the distance (a critical difference with Musk's plans).

    Colombus was proposing something that could be done with aleady existing and tested technology, Musk is proposing something that can't be done with existing and tested technology.

    Musk is simply trying to sell a Star Treck episode to Wall Street, not to actually make a trip to Mars.
    Educated people knew the Earth was round in ancient times.

    But sailing West was a huge risk in 1492. And, we owe a lot to people who are willing to blow fortunes and/or risk their lives purely in order to satisfy intellectual curiosity.
    Columbus and others thought that they could sail straight over to Asia by sailing west, There was no knowledge of the New World, and Ptolemy (1st cen. AD) underestimated the circumference on his world map.
    Yet Eratosthnes had calculated the sircumference well before Ptolemy, within 10-15%.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eratosthenes#Measurement_of_the_Earth.27s_circumference
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    SeanT said:

    tlg86 said:

    On topic, Give it time

    Off topic, Forget bungs, this is explosive

    The same individual, who used to manage a high profile team, had also fixed a game, Mr Pagliara claimed. The manager’s representatives yesterday described the allegations as “completely false”. In several instances, he admitted that he had personally paid the officials “bungs” to secure deals.

    Blimey.
    Bungs is priced in.

    Match fixing takes this to a whole new level.

    Mr Pagliara, an unlicensed agent who was banned from football for five years in 2005 for match-fixing.
    Match fixing means chokey
    It's increadibly easy to fix matches in football.

    Just think, all matches are determined with a score of at most half a dozen goals, most times a single goal is enough to win.

    The referees have the power to give a goal to a team through a penalty or to aid them as close as possible to the goal posts with a variety of means, of even to cancel a goal from the opposite team and to keep them away from the goal posts.

    Then you have the goalkeepers who can be bent to look the other way.

    Then you have the other players to play a bad game.

    And finally the coatch who can sabotage his own team.

    That's why I prefer basketball.
    In that sport the referee has less power, and since the winning score is so high and with no goalkeeper it's much more difficult to fix a basketball match.
  • SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Hands up everyone who believes that precisely one match was fixed.

    I would be genuinely surprised if an EPL match was fixed in recent years. How would you do it, and why?

    There's so much money in the game already, why risk prison for a bit more? How do you persuade entire teams of millionaires to throw a game for pocket money?

    Maybe an FA cup match or a League Cup game (whatever they call it, now). EPL, hmm.
    As we have seen with Cricket and Tennis, you don't need to fix the result of the match. You can just fix certain events.
    Well yeah. But that's not match fixing. And match fixing is the specific allegation that stands out in that report.
    They might say match fixing, but mean spot fixing (its still technically fixing the match in a particular way). However, I agree much more likely to fix a cup game or a lower league match.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 25,603

    The story of the manager shaking down players for a few grand...Even by corrupt and greedy sods, that is incredible. PL manager earn £1 million+ a year and he is shaking them down for an extra £4k a month.

    £4K a month x 3 tax free so worth double that to a higher rate tax payer. And you don't have to account to the missus for it either.
  • SeanT said:

    Hands up everyone who believes that precisely one match was fixed.

    I would be genuinely surprised if an EPL match was fixed in recent years. How would you do it, and why?

    There's so much money in the game already, why risk prison for a bit more? How do you persuade entire teams of millionaires to throw a game for pocket money?

    Maybe an FA cup match or a League Cup game (whatever they call it, now). EPL, hmm.
    Zero is the most likely number. But if it isn't zero, it isn't one.
    That's a very good point.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 34,390
    edited September 2016
    Speedy said:

    SeanT said:

    tlg86 said:

    On topic, Give it time

    Off topic, Forget bungs, this is explosive

    The same individual, who used to manage a high profile team, had also fixed a game, Mr Pagliara claimed. The manager’s representatives yesterday described the allegations as “completely false”. In several instances, he admitted that he had personally paid the officials “bungs” to secure deals.

    Blimey.
    Bungs is priced in.

    Match fixing takes this to a whole new level.

    Mr Pagliara, an unlicensed agent who was banned from football for five years in 2005 for match-fixing.
    Match fixing means chokey
    It's increadibly easy to fix matches in football.

    Just think, all matches are determined with a score of at most half a dozen goals, most times a single goal is enough to win.

    The referees have the power to give a goal to a team through a penalty or to aid them as close as possible to the goal posts with a variety of means, of even to cancel a goal from the opposite team and to keep them away from the goal posts.

    Then you have the goalkeepers who can be bent to look the other way.

    Then you have the other players to play a bad game.

    And finally the coatch who can sabotage his own team.

    That's why I prefer basketball.
    In that sport the referee has less power, and since the winning score is so high and with no goalkeeper it's much more difficult to fix a basketball match.
    Erhhhhhhh.....waves arms.....NBA refs were found to be match fixing only a few years ago...the high score doesn't matter as most games are very close and a foul here and there is all you need to affect the game.

    Also again three is big number of the over / under in high scoring sports, so again the ref can affect that by calling fouls / turns overs etc.
  • The story of the manager shaking down players for a few grand...Even by corrupt and greedy sods, that is incredible. PL manager earn £1 million+ a year and he is shaking them down for an extra £4k a month.

    john terry-esque
  • Mortimer said:

    Gah. It is not called EPL.

    Yes it is, worldwide.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 18,347
    edited September 2016

    The story of the manager shaking down players for a few grand...Even by corrupt and greedy sods, that is incredible. PL manager earn £1 million+ a year and he is shaking them down for an extra £4k a month.

    You'd be surprised at the idiocy and greed of some people.

    I knew of someone who was earning over 600k a year, and he was fleecing his expenses for an extra £200 quid a month.

    Sometimes it can be a power thing.
    In my experience (including over ten years dealing with expenses management and investigation for a big company), people who fiddle their expenses often have a view that they are underpaid, or are going the extra mile and not being adequately recognised. Over-claiming their expenses, often for quite trivial sums, is a psychological way of evening the score with their employer. You are right that the cases often involve surprisingly well paid people, and poverty or debt is rarely the explanation IME.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 11,397
    Time travelling politicians from the late eighteenth and early nineteenth century?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 18,013
    edited September 2016

    Speedy said:

    SeanT said:

    tlg86 said:

    On topic, Give it time

    Off topic, Forget bungs, this is explosive

    The same individual, who used to manage a high profile team, had also fixed a game, Mr Pagliara claimed. The manager’s representatives yesterday described the allegations as “completely false”. In several instances, he admitted that he had personally paid the officials “bungs” to secure deals.

    Blimey.
    Bungs is priced in.

    Match fixing takes this to a whole new level.

    Mr Pagliara, an unlicensed agent who was banned from football for five years in 2005 for match-fixing.
    Match fixing means chokey
    It's increadibly easy to fix matches in football.

    Just think, all matches are determined with a score of at most half a dozen goals, most times a single goal is enough to win.

    The referees have the power to give a goal to a team through a penalty or to aid them as close as possible to the goal posts with a variety of means, of even to cancel a goal from the opposite team and to keep them away from the goal posts.

    Then you have the goalkeepers who can be bent to look the other way.

    Then you have the other players to play a bad game.

    And finally the coatch who can sabotage his own team.

    That's why I prefer basketball.
    In that sport the referee has less power, and since the winning score is so high and with no goalkeeper it's much more difficult to fix a basketball match.
    Erhhhhhhh.....waves arms.....NBA refs were found to be match fixing...the high score doesn't matter as most games are very close and a foul here and there is all you need to affect the game.
    Looking at an EPL match you would be pushed to spot any player throwing it.

    And no, that's how Arsenal always play for the first 83 minutes.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 3,896

    FPT

    Sean_F said:

    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    First mars ship named - "Hard gold"

    An appropiate name for an overpriced space coffin.

    Although we can save countless of lives if Musk is the first to try his own spaceship.
    Tell that to Elcano or the crew of the Pinta. The world would be so much better if they hadn't embarked.

    Life without some risk is no life. We all take calculated (and uncalculated) risks: sometimes these risks are how the world progresses.

    Avoiding risks means stagnation; doubly so for a society.
    Well the earth was already proven to be round by 1492, and portuguese explorers where already on the high seas with ships that could float and sail the distance (a critical difference with Musk's plans).

    Colombus was proposing something that could be done with aleady existing and tested technology, Musk is proposing something that can't be done with existing and tested technology.

    Musk is simply trying to sell a Star Treck episode to Wall Street, not to actually make a trip to Mars.
    Educated people knew the Earth was round in ancient times.

    But sailing West was a huge risk in 1492. And, we owe a lot to people who are willing to blow fortunes and/or risk their lives purely in order to satisfy intellectual curiosity.
    Columbus and others thought that they could sail straight over to Asia by sailing west, There was no knowledge of the New World, and Ptolemy (1st cen. AD) underestimated the circumference on his world map.
    Yet Eratosthnes had calculated the sircumference well before Ptolemy, within 10-15%.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eratosthenes#Measurement_of_the_Earth.27s_circumference
    Eratosthenes mentioned twice in this thread ( by you and me )! The old boy is having a better day than Big Sam.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 11,397

    Mortimer said:

    Gah. It is not called EPL.

    Yes it is, worldwide.
    I have no problem with the rest of the world being wrong, but here, in this country, it is the Premier League.

    Just as we don't call the County Championship the ECC.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 18,013
    SeanT said:

    Speedy said:

    SeanT said:

    tlg86 said:

    On topic, Give it time

    Off topic, Forget bungs, this is explosive

    The same individual, who used to manage a high profile team, had also fixed a game, Mr Pagliara claimed. The manager’s representatives yesterday described the allegations as “completely false”. In several instances, he admitted that he had personally paid the officials “bungs” to secure deals.

    Blimey.
    Bungs is priced in.

    Match fixing takes this to a whole new level.

    Mr Pagliara, an unlicensed agent who was banned from football for five years in 2005 for match-fixing.
    Match fixing means chokey
    It's increadibly easy to fix matches in football.

    Just think, all matches are determined with a score of at most half a dozen goals, most times a single goal is enough to win.

    The referees have the power to give a goal to a team through a penalty or to aid them as close as possible to the goal posts with a variety of means, of even to cancel a goal from the opposite team and to keep them away from the goal posts.

    Then you have the goalkeepers who can be bent to look the other way.

    Then you have the other players to play a bad game.

    And finally the coatch who can sabotage his own team.

    That's why I prefer basketball.
    In that sport the referee has less power, and since the winning score is so high and with no goalkeeper it's much more difficult to fix a basketball match.
    But the EPL is protected by the sheer amount of dosh already available. The average wage of a premiership player is £2.3 MILLION a year

    You'd have to find a player who was weirdly, bizarrely desperate for money (despite his income) and willing to risk prison because the rewards were so tempting, and also he'd have to persuade others, probably on both teams. It would cost the fixer tens of millions, all without anyone suspecting.

    For what? Nah. Don't believe it.

    I'm sure matches are fixed, but not in the EPL since the big money rolled in.

    Plenty of players spunk their money away on the gee-gees.
  • FPT

    Sean_F said:

    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    First mars ship named - "Hard gold"

    An appropiate name for an overpriced space coffin.

    Although we can save countless of lives if Musk is the first to try his own spaceship.
    Tell that to Elcano or the crew of the Pinta. The world would be so much better if they hadn't embarked.

    Life without some risk is no life. We all take calculated (and uncalculated) risks: sometimes these risks are how the world progresses.

    Avoiding risks means stagnation; doubly so for a society.
    Well the earth was already proven to be round by 1492, and portuguese explorers where already on the high seas with ships that could float and sail the distance (a critical difference with Musk's plans).

    Colombus was proposing something that could be done with aleady existing and tested technology, Musk is proposing something that can't be done with existing and tested technology.

    Musk is simply trying to sell a Star Treck episode to Wall Street, not to actually make a trip to Mars.
    Educated people knew the Earth was round in ancient times.

    But sailing West was a huge risk in 1492. And, we owe a lot to people who are willing to blow fortunes and/or risk their lives purely in order to satisfy intellectual curiosity.
    Columbus and others thought that they could sail straight over to Asia by sailing west, There was no knowledge of the New World, and Ptolemy (1st cen. AD) underestimated the circumference on his world map.
    Yet Eratosthnes had calculated the sircumference well before Ptolemy, within 10-15%.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eratosthenes#Measurement_of_the_Earth.27s_circumference
    Yes but no one knew at the time how accurate the estimates were.
  • TOPPING said:

    Speedy said:

    SeanT said:

    tlg86 said:

    On topic, Give it time

    Off topic, Forget bungs, this is explosive

    The same individual, who used to manage a high profile team, had also fixed a game, Mr Pagliara claimed. The manager’s representatives yesterday described the allegations as “completely false”. In several instances, he admitted that he had personally paid the officials “bungs” to secure deals.

    Blimey.
    Bungs is priced in.

    Match fixing takes this to a whole new level.

    Mr Pagliara, an unlicensed agent who was banned from football for five years in 2005 for match-fixing.
    Match fixing means chokey
    It's increadibly easy to fix matches in football.

    Just think, all matches are determined with a score of at most half a dozen goals, most times a single goal is enough to win.

    The referees have the power to give a goal to a team through a penalty or to aid them as close as possible to the goal posts with a variety of means, of even to cancel a goal from the opposite team and to keep them away from the goal posts.

    Then you have the goalkeepers who can be bent to look the other way.

    Then you have the other players to play a bad game.

    And finally the coatch who can sabotage his own team.

    That's why I prefer basketball.
    In that sport the referee has less power, and since the winning score is so high and with no goalkeeper it's much more difficult to fix a basketball match.
    Erhhhhhhh.....waves arms.....NBA refs were found to be match fixing...the high score doesn't matter as most games are very close and a foul here and there is all you need to affect the game.
    Looking at an EPL match you would be pushed to spot any player throwing it.

    And no, that's how Arsenal always play for the first 83 minutes.
    As I said, they don't need to throw the match. Former footballers have admitted fixing the first throw in and corner markets, which is obviously chump change, but you can throw other things that are worth more.
  • FPT

    Sean_F said:

    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    First mars ship named - "Hard gold"

    An appropiate name for an overpriced space coffin.

    Although we can save countless of lives if Musk is the first to try his own spaceship.
    Tell that to Elcano or the crew of the Pinta. The world would be so much better if they hadn't embarked.

    Life without some risk is no life. We all take calculated (and uncalculated) risks: sometimes these risks are how the world progresses.

    Avoiding risks means stagnation; doubly so for a society.
    Well the earth was already proven to be round by 1492, and portuguese explorers where already on the high seas with ships that could float and sail the distance (a critical difference with Musk's plans).

    Colombus was proposing something that could be done with aleady existing and tested technology, Musk is proposing something that can't be done with existing and tested technology.

    Musk is simply trying to sell a Star Treck episode to Wall Street, not to actually make a trip to Mars.
    Educated people knew the Earth was round in ancient times.

    But sailing West was a huge risk in 1492. And, we owe a lot to people who are willing to blow fortunes and/or risk their lives purely in order to satisfy intellectual curiosity.
    Columbus and others thought that they could sail straight over to Asia by sailing west, There was no knowledge of the New World, and Ptolemy (1st cen. AD) underestimated the circumference on his world map.
    Yet Eratosthnes had calculated the sircumference well before Ptolemy, within 10-15%.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eratosthenes#Measurement_of_the_Earth.27s_circumference
    Sorry, meant to say Ptolemy overestimated the east-west extent of Asia :innocent:

  • Awesome pun on the front page of The Sun, so brilliant, you'd think it was written by me

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 11,959
    The Sarkozy 'plan' is a rather interesting development.
    Imagine how strong Cameron's position might now have been, had he extended his 'renegotiation' to 12 months, rather than three weeks...
    A similar consideration might now apply to the timing of the exercise of A50 ?
  • TOPPING said:

    Speedy said:

    SeanT said:

    tlg86 said:

    On topic, Give it time

    Off topic, Forget bungs, this is explosive

    The same individual, who used to manage a high profile team, had also fixed a game, Mr Pagliara claimed. The manager’s representatives yesterday described the allegations as “completely false”. In several instances, he admitted that he had personally paid the officials “bungs” to secure deals.

    Blimey.
    Bungs is priced in.

    Match fixing takes this to a whole new level.

    Mr Pagliara, an unlicensed agent who was banned from football for five years in 2005 for match-fixing.
    Match fixing means chokey
    It's increadibly easy to fix matches in football.

    Just think, all matches are determined with a score of at most half a dozen goals, most times a single goal is enough to win.

    The referees have the power to give a goal to a team through a penalty or to aid them as close as possible to the goal posts with a variety of means, of even to cancel a goal from the opposite team and to keep them away from the goal posts.

    Then you have the goalkeepers who can be bent to look the other way.

    Then you have the other players to play a bad game.

    And finally the coatch who can sabotage his own team.

    That's why I prefer basketball.
    In that sport the referee has less power, and since the winning score is so high and with no goalkeeper it's much more difficult to fix a basketball match.
    Erhhhhhhh.....waves arms.....NBA refs were found to be match fixing...the high score doesn't matter as most games are very close and a foul here and there is all you need to affect the game.
    Looking at an EPL match you would be pushed to spot any player throwing it.

    And no, that's how Arsenal always play for the first 83 minutes.
    Not just Arsenal. :)
  • Nigel Pearson for England. Lionheart. Safe pair of hands
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    Speedy said:

    SeanT said:

    tlg86 said:

    On topic, Give it time

    Off topic, Forget bungs, this is explosive

    The same individual, who used to manage a high profile team, had also fixed a game, Mr Pagliara claimed. The manager’s representatives yesterday described the allegations as “completely false”. In several instances, he admitted that he had personally paid the officials “bungs” to secure deals.

    Blimey.
    Bungs is priced in.

    Match fixing takes this to a whole new level.

    Mr Pagliara, an unlicensed agent who was banned from football for five years in 2005 for match-fixing.
    Match fixing means chokey
    It's increadibly easy to fix matches in football.

    Just think, all matches are determined with a score of at most half a dozen goals, most times a single goal is enough to win.

    The referees have the power to give a goal to a team through a penalty or to aid them as close as possible to the goal posts with a variety of means, of even to cancel a goal from the opposite team and to keep them away from the goal posts.

    Then you have the goalkeepers who can be bent to look the other way.

    Then you have the other players to play a bad game.

    And finally the coatch who can sabotage his own team.

    That's why I prefer basketball.
    In that sport the referee has less power, and since the winning score is so high and with no goalkeeper it's much more difficult to fix a basketball match.
    Erhhhhhhh.....waves arms.....NBA refs were found to be match fixing only a few years ago...the high score doesn't matter as most games are very close and a foul here and there is all you need to affect the game.

    Also again three is big number of the over / under in high scoring sports, so again the ref can affect that by calling fouls / turns overs etc.
    True, but a single foul in a game where the score can run over 50 and can reach over 100 is worth less than a penalty in a game where the score can run over 1 and can reach 7-8 max.

    It's not impossible to fix a basketball match, it's just more difficult than in football.
  • TOPPING said:

    Speedy said:

    SeanT said:

    tlg86 said:

    On topic, Give it time

    Off topic, Forget bungs, this is explosive

    The same individual, who used to manage a high profile team, had also fixed a game, Mr Pagliara claimed. The manager’s representatives yesterday described the allegations as “completely false”. In several instances, he admitted that he had personally paid the officials “bungs” to secure deals.

    Blimey.
    Bungs is priced in.

    Match fixing takes this to a whole new level.

    Mr Pagliara, an unlicensed agent who was banned from football for five years in 2005 for match-fixing.
    Match fixing means chokey
    It's increadibly easy to fix matches in football.

    Just think, all matches are determined with a score of at most half a dozen goals, most times a single goal is enough to win.

    The referees have the power to give a goal to a team through a penalty or to aid them as close as possible to the goal posts with a variety of means, of even to cancel a goal from the opposite team and to keep them away from the goal posts.

    Then you have the goalkeepers who can be bent to look the other way.

    Then you have the other players to play a bad game.

    And finally the coatch who can sabotage his own team.

    That's why I prefer basketball.
    In that sport the referee has less power, and since the winning score is so high and with no goalkeeper it's much more difficult to fix a basketball match.
    Erhhhhhhh.....waves arms.....NBA refs were found to be match fixing...the high score doesn't matter as most games are very close and a foul here and there is all you need to affect the game.
    Looking at an EPL match you would be pushed to spot any player throwing it.

    And no, that's how Arsenal always play for the first 83 minutes.
    As I said, they don't need to throw the match. Former footballers have admitted fixing the first throw in and corner markets, which is obviously chump change, but you can throw other things that are worth more.
    you'd think a bent referee would be cheaper
  • Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    SeanT said:

    tlg86 said:

    On topic, Give it time

    Off topic, Forget bungs, this is explosive

    The same individual, who used to manage a high profile team, had also fixed a game, Mr Pagliara claimed. The manager’s representatives yesterday described the allegations as “completely false”. In several instances, he admitted that he had personally paid the officials “bungs” to secure deals.

    Blimey.
    Bungs is priced in.

    Match fixing takes this to a whole new level.

    Mr Pagliara, an unlicensed agent who was banned from football for five years in 2005 for match-fixing.
    Match fixing means chokey
    It's increadibly easy to fix matches in football.

    Just think, all matches are determined with a score of at most half a dozen goals, most times a single goal is enough to win.

    The referees have the power to give a goal to a team through a penalty or to aid them as close as possible to the goal posts with a variety of means, of even to cancel a goal from the opposite team and to keep them away from the goal posts.

    Then you have the goalkeepers who can be bent to look the other way.

    Then you have the other players to play a bad game.

    And finally the coatch who can sabotage his own team.

    That's why I prefer basketball.
    In that sport the referee has less power, and since the winning score is so high and with no goalkeeper it's much more difficult to fix a basketball match.
    Erhhhhhhh.....waves arms.....NBA refs were found to be match fixing only a few years ago...the high score doesn't matter as most games are very close and a foul here and there is all you need to affect the game.

    Also again three is big number of the over / under in high scoring sports, so again the ref can affect that by calling fouls / turns overs etc.
    True, but a single foul in a game where the score can run over 50 and can reach over 100 is worth less than a penalty in a game where the score can run over 1 and can reach 7-8 max.

    It's not impossible to fix a basketball match, it's just more difficult than in football.
    You obviously totally missed the bent ref scandal in the NBA...it was worth big big bucks to throw involved.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 18,013

    TOPPING said:

    Speedy said:

    SeanT said:

    tlg86 said:

    On topic, Give it time

    Off topic, Forget bungs, this is explosive

    The same individual, who used to manage a high profile team, had also fixed a game, Mr Pagliara claimed. The manager’s representatives yesterday described the allegations as “completely false”. In several instances, he admitted that he had personally paid the officials “bungs” to secure deals.

    Blimey.
    Bungs is priced in.

    Match fixing takes this to a whole new level.

    Mr Pagliara, an unlicensed agent who was banned from football for five years in 2005 for match-fixing.
    Match fixing means chokey
    It's increadibly easy to fix matches in football.

    Just think, all matches are determined with a score of at most half a dozen goals, most times a single goal is enough to win.

    The referees have the power to give a goal to a team through a penalty or to aid them as close as possible to the goal posts with a variety of means, of even to cancel a goal from the opposite team and to keep them away from the goal posts.

    Then you have the goalkeepers who can be bent to look the other way.

    Then you have the other players to play a bad game.

    And finally the coatch who can sabotage his own team.

    That's why I prefer basketball.
    In that sport the referee has less power, and since the winning score is so high and with no goalkeeper it's much more difficult to fix a basketball match.
    Erhhhhhhh.....waves arms.....NBA refs were found to be match fixing...the high score doesn't matter as most games are very close and a foul here and there is all you need to affect the game.
    Looking at an EPL match you would be pushed to spot any player throwing it.

    And no, that's how Arsenal always play for the first 83 minutes.
    As I said, they don't need to throw the match. Former footballers have admitted fixing the first throw in and corner markets, which is obviously chump change, but you can throw other things that are worth more.
    you'd think a bent referee would be cheaper
    Yes def. Who's going to blow the whistle on it all?

    (Sorry)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 11,959
    TOPPING said:

    SeanT said:

    Speedy said:

    SeanT said:

    tlg86 said:

    On topic, Give it time

    Off topic, Forget bungs, this is explosive

    The same individual, who used to manage a high profile team, had also fixed a game, Mr Pagliara claimed. The manager’s representatives yesterday described the allegations as “completely false”. In several instances, he admitted that he had personally paid the officials “bungs” to secure deals.

    Blimey.
    Bungs is priced in.

    Match fixing takes this to a whole new level.

    Mr Pagliara, an unlicensed agent who was banned from football for five years in 2005 for match-fixing.
    Match fixing means chokey
    It's increadibly easy to fix matches in football.

    Just think, all matches are determined with a score of at most half a dozen goals, most times a single goal is enough to win.

    The referees have the power to give a goal to a team through a penalty or to aid them as close as possible to the goal posts with a variety of means, of even to cancel a goal from the opposite team and to keep them away from the goal posts.

    Then you have the goalkeepers who can be bent to look the other way.

    Then you have the other players to play a bad game.

    And finally the coatch who can sabotage his own team.

    That's why I prefer basketball.
    In that sport the referee has less power, and since the winning score is so high and with no goalkeeper it's much more difficult to fix a basketball match.
    But the EPL is protected by the sheer amount of dosh already available. The average wage of a premiership player is £2.3 MILLION a year

    You'd have to find a player who was weirdly, bizarrely desperate for money (despite his income) and willing to risk prison because the rewards were so tempting, and also he'd have to persuade others, probably on both teams. It would cost the fixer tens of millions, all without anyone suspecting.

    For what? Nah. Don't believe it.

    I'm sure matches are fixed, but not in the EPL since the big money rolled in.

    Plenty of players spunk their money away on the gee-gees.
    And the combination of stupidity and greed is surely not a phenomenon confined to England managers alone ?

  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 6,963
    SeanT said:



    Even then it just doesn't add up. One player alone can't fix a match. A goalkeeper can let in a soft penalty, but even that can't guarantee a result. And they would still have to offer him squillions when the average goalie can make millions a year.

    Sean

    Just finished reading a book I think you would enjoy, if you haven't already read it. 'Tribe. On Homecoming and Belonging' by Sebastian Junger. I know you have talked about the beneficial effect of religion on wellbeing. While this book is not directly about religion, it definitely deals with interesting examples of strong sense of belonging that comes from terrible external dangers, such as nature (for primitive tribes), war and natural or manmade disasters.

    Hope you enjoy. About a 2-3 hour speed read.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 34,390
    edited September 2016
    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    SeanT said:

    Speedy said:

    SeanT said:

    tlg86 said:

    On topic, Give it time

    Off topic, Forget bungs, this is explosive

    The same individual, who used to manage a high profile team, had also fixed a game, Mr Pagliara claimed. The manager’s representatives yesterday described the allegations as “completely false”. In several instances, he admitted that he had personally paid the officials “bungs” to secure deals.

    Blimey.
    Bungs is priced in.

    Match fixing takes this to a whole new level.

    Mr Pagliara, an unlicensed agent who was banned from football for five years in 2005 for match-fixing.
    Match fixing means chokey
    It's increadibly easy to fix matches in football.

    Just think, all matches are determined with a score of at most half a dozen goals, most times a single goal is enough to win.

    The referees have the power to give a goal to a team through a penalty or to aid them as close as possible to the goal posts with a variety of means, of even to cancel a goal from the opposite team and to keep them away from the goal posts.

    Then you have the goalkeepers who can be bent to look the other way.

    Then you have the other players to play a bad game.

    And finally the coatch who can sabotage his own team.

    That's why I prefer basketball.
    In that sport the referee has less power, and since the winning score is so high and with no goalkeeper it's much more difficult to fix a basketball match.
    But the EPL is protected by the sheer amount of dosh already available. The average wage of a premiership player is £2.3 MILLION a year

    You'd have to find a player who was weirdly, bizarrely desperate for money (despite his income) and willing to risk prison because the rewards were so tempting, and also he'd have to persuade others, probably on both teams. It would cost the fixer tens of millions, all without anyone suspecting.

    For what? Nah. Don't believe it.

    I'm sure matches are fixed, but not in the EPL since the big money rolled in.

    Plenty of players spunk their money away on the gee-gees.
    Cough cough John Terry....how many times has he had to remortgage his families homes...
    I really don't think names are a good idea here.
    Absolutely NOTsaying he is corrupt. It is a common knowledge John Terry has spunked more money away than most people would earn in 10 life times as an example of a footballer who should be ready to retire to a £50 million fortune ala Sol Campbell and instead doesn't have that kind of money.
  • FPT

    Sean_F said:

    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    First mars ship named - "Hard gold"

    An appropiate name for an overpriced space coffin.

    Although we can save countless of lives if Musk is the first to try his own spaceship.
    Tell that to Elcano or the crew of the Pinta. The world would be so much better if they hadn't embarked.

    Life without some risk is no life. We all take calculated (and uncalculated) risks: sometimes these risks are how the world progresses.

    Avoiding risks means stagnation; doubly so for a society.
    Well the earth was already proven to be round by 1492, and portuguese explorers where already on the high seas with ships that could float and sail the distance (a critical difference with Musk's plans).

    Colombus was proposing something that could be done with aleady existing and tested technology, Musk is proposing something that can't be done with existing and tested technology.

    Musk is simply trying to sell a Star Treck episode to Wall Street, not to actually make a trip to Mars.
    Educated people knew the Earth was round in ancient times.

    But sailing West was a huge risk in 1492. And, we owe a lot to people who are willing to blow fortunes and/or risk their lives purely in order to satisfy intellectual curiosity.
    Columbus and others thought that they could sail straight over to Asia by sailing west, There was no knowledge of the New World, and Ptolemy (1st cen. AD) underestimated the circumference on his world map.
    Yet Eratosthnes had calculated the sircumference well before Ptolemy, within 10-15%.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eratosthenes#Measurement_of_the_Earth.27s_circumference
    Yes but no one knew at the time how accurate the estimates were.
    Indeed. But I think Sunil gave an interesting reply above.

    If we want progress, there has to be risk. And that's fine, as long as people get to chose the level of risk they want to take.

    That was the real scandal over the Space Shuttle: NASA had conned themselves it was a safe, production system, wherein it was still a prototype even to the the final flight.
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    SeanT said:

    Speedy said:

    SeanT said:

    tlg86 said:

    On topic, Give it time

    Off topic, Forget bungs, this is explosive

    The same individual, who used to manage a high profile team, had also fixed a game, Mr Pagliara claimed. The manager’s representatives yesterday described the allegations as “completely false”. In several instances, he admitted that he had personally paid the officials “bungs” to secure deals.

    Blimey.
    Bungs is priced in.

    Match fixing takes this to a whole new level.

    Mr Pagliara, an unlicensed agent who was banned from football for five years in 2005 for match-fixing.
    Match fixing means chokey
    It's increadibly easy to fix matches in football.

    Just think, all matches are determined with a score of at most half a dozen goals, most times a single goal is enough to win.

    The referees have the power to give a goal to a team through a penalty or to aid them as close as possible to the goal posts with a variety of means, of even to cancel a goal from the opposite team and to keep them away from the goal posts.

    Then you have the goalkeepers who can be bent to look the other way.

    Then you have the other players to play a bad game.

    And finally the coatch who can sabotage his own team.

    That's why I prefer basketball.
    In that sport the referee has less power, and since the winning score is so high and with no goalkeeper it's much more difficult to fix a basketball match.
    But the EPL is protected by the sheer amount of dosh already available. The average wage of a premiership player is £2.3 MILLION a year

    You'd have to find a player who was weirdly, bizarrely desperate for money (despite his income) and willing to risk prison because the rewards were so tempting, and also he'd have to persuade others, probably on both teams. It would cost the fixer tens of millions, all without anyone suspecting.

    For what? Nah. Don't believe it.

    I'm sure matches are fixed, but not in the EPL since the big money rolled in.

    But Allardyce was on £3 MILLION a year. I find it as weird and bizarre as you do, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
  • Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Gah. It is not called EPL.

    Yes it is, worldwide.
    I have no problem with the rest of the world being wrong, but here, in this country, it is the Premier League.

    Just as we don't call the County Championship the ECC.
    But we do call it the ECB. Given the global nature of football nowadays it is sensible to use a universal acronym that is crystal clear what you mean.
  • Ishmael_X said:

    SeanT said:

    Speedy said:

    SeanT said:

    tlg86 said:

    On topic, Give it time

    Off topic, Forget bungs, this is explosive

    The same individual, who used to manage a high profile team, had also fixed a game, Mr Pagliara claimed. The manager’s representatives yesterday described the allegations as “completely false”. In several instances, he admitted that he had personally paid the officials “bungs” to secure deals.

    Blimey.
    Bungs is priced in.

    Match fixing takes this to a whole new level.

    Mr Pagliara, an unlicensed agent who was banned from football for five years in 2005 for match-fixing.
    Match fixing means chokey
    It's increadibly easy to fix matches in football.

    Just think, all matches are determined with a score of at most half a dozen goals, most times a single goal is enough to win.

    The referees have the power to give a goal to a team through a penalty or to aid them as close as possible to the goal posts with a variety of means, of even to cancel a goal from the opposite team and to keep them away from the goal posts.

    Then you have the goalkeepers who can be bent to look the other way.

    Then you have the other players to play a bad game.

    And finally the coatch who can sabotage his own team.

    That's why I prefer basketball.
    In that sport the referee has less power, and since the winning score is so high and with no goalkeeper it's much more difficult to fix a basketball match.
    But the EPL is protected by the sheer amount of dosh already available. The average wage of a premiership player is £2.3 MILLION a year

    You'd have to find a player who was weirdly, bizarrely desperate for money (despite his income) and willing to risk prison because the rewards were so tempting, and also he'd have to persuade others, probably on both teams. It would cost the fixer tens of millions, all without anyone suspecting.

    For what? Nah. Don't believe it.

    I'm sure matches are fixed, but not in the EPL since the big money rolled in.

    But Allardyce was on £3 MILLION a year. I find it as weird and bizarre as you do, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
    He wasn't on £3 million a year at Bolton.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited September 2016
    SeanT said:



    Even then it just doesn't add up. One player alone can't fix a match. A goalkeeper can let in a soft penalty, but even that can't guarantee a result. And they would still have to offer him squillions when the average goalie can make millions a year.

    This is a betting site right ?
    You can bet on number of corners, fouls, red cards, yellow cards, ect.
    Not just who wins.

    A player can help you to get the right number in exhange for a price, it's another form of match fixing but still match fixing.

    Say you bet 100k on player X to get a yellow card at match Y, and the player X agrees to get a yellow card in exchange for half of the profits, it's still match fixing.
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    Trump should try that at the next debate- show some real passion.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 37,457

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Gah. It is not called EPL.

    Yes it is, worldwide.
    I have no problem with the rest of the world being wrong, but here, in this country, it is the Premier League.

    Just as we don't call the County Championship the ECC.
    But we do call it the ECB. Given the global nature of football nowadays it is sensible to use a universal acronym that is crystal clear what you mean.
    Maybe an anglo-centric view, but when someone says Premier League in a football context it is very likely they are referring to the English one.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 25,603
    edited September 2016

    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    SeanT said:

    Speedy said:

    SeanT said:

    tlg86 said:

    On topic, Give it time



    .

    Bungs is priced in.

    Match fixing takes this to a whole new level.

    Mr Pagliara, an unlicensed agent who was banned from football for five years in 2005 for match-fixing.
    Match fixing means chokey
    It's increadibly easy to fix matches in football.

    Just think, all matches are determined with a score of at most half a dozen goals, most times a single goal is enough to win.

    The referees have the power to give a goal to a team through a penalty or to aid them as close as possible to the goal posts with a variety of means, of even to cancel a goal from the opposite team and to keep them away from the goal posts.

    Then you have the goalkeepers who can be bent to look the other way.

    Then you have the other players to play a bad game.

    And finally the coatch who can sabotage his own team.

    That's why I prefer basketball.
    In that sport the referee has less power, and since the winning score is so high and with no goalkeeper it's much more difficult to fix a basketball match.
    But the EPL is protected by the sheer amount of dosh already available. The average wage of a premiership player is £2.3 MILLION a year

    You'd have to find a player who was weirdly, bizarrely desperate for money (despite his income) and willing to risk prison because the rewards were so tempting, and also he'd have to persuade others, probably on both teams. It would cost the fixer tens of millions, all without anyone suspecting.

    For what? Nah. Don't believe it.

    I'm sure matches are fixed, but not in the EPL since the big money rolled in.

    Plenty of players spunk their money away on the gee-gees.
    Cough cough John Terry....how many times has he had to remortgage his families homes...
    I really don't think names are a good idea here.
    Absolutely not saying he is corrupt. It is a common knowledge John Terry has spunked more money away than most people would earn in 10 life times as an example of a footballer who should be ready to retire to a £50 million fortune ala Sol Campbell and instead doesn't have that kind of money.
    This is going to go extremely litigious by people with huge sums of money at stake and a lot to lose. I am very sure OGH does not want even a bit part in that drama.
  • Speedy said:

    SeanT said:



    Even then it just doesn't add up. One player alone can't fix a match. A goalkeeper can let in a soft penalty, but even that can't guarantee a result. And they would still have to offer him squillions when the average goalie can make millions a year.

    This is a betting site right ?
    You can bet on number of corners, fouls, red cards, yellow cards, ect.
    Not just who wins.

    A player can help you to get the right number in exhange for a price, it's another form of match fixing but still match fixing.

    Say you bet 100k on player X to get a yellow card at match Y, and the player X agrees to get a yellow card in exchange for half of the profits, it's still match fixing.
    So which bookies take 100k single bets on yellow cards?

    Name names.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 18,013
    edited September 2016
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 26,746
    Speedy said:

    SeanT said:

    tlg86 said:

    On topic, Give it time

    Off topic, Forget bungs, this is explosive

    The same individual, who used to manage a high profile team, had also fixed a game, Mr Pagliara claimed. The manager’s representatives yesterday described the allegations as “completely false”. In several instances, he admitted that he had personally paid the officials “bungs” to secure deals.

    Blimey.
    Bungs is priced in.

    Match fixing takes this to a whole new level.

    Mr Pagliara, an unlicensed agent who was banned from football for five years in 2005 for match-fixing.
    Match fixing means chokey
    It's increadibly easy to fix matches in football.

    Just think, all matches are determined with a score of at most half a dozen goals, most times a single goal is enough to win.

    The referees have the power to give a goal to a team through a penalty or to aid them as close as possible to the goal posts with a variety of means, of even to cancel a goal from the opposite team and to keep them away from the goal posts.

    Then you have the goalkeepers who can be bent to look the other way.

    Then you have the other players to play a bad game.

    And finally the coatch who can sabotage his own team.

    That's why I prefer basketball.
    In that sport the referee has less power, and since the winning score is so high and with no goalkeeper it's much more difficult to fix a basketball match.
    It's also very difficult to fix a cricket match without it being obvious to anyone who's been watching closely.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 34,390
    edited September 2016
    DavidL said:



    This is going to go extremely litigious by people with huge sums of money at stake and a lot to lose. I am very sure OGH does not want even a bit part in that drama.

    Absolutely. I am not going anywhere near the names of the managers hinted at, even though I have a very good idea who some are.

    BUT, I simply stated as an example of a footballer who has lost a lot of money on gambling. Michael Owen is another. Chorpa, Gillespie and Etherington being other famous examples. There was a well documented culture in the England team of a few years ago of footballers losing incredibly sums of money.

    Point being even footballers on mega mega money can end up with bugger all.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 30,336
    edited September 2016
    Behaim Globe dates from 1492, the year Columbus' fateful voyage:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Behaim#/media/File:MartinBehaim1492.png

    Did old Chris have this in mind as he departed Spain?
  • Speedy said:

    SeanT said:



    Even then it just doesn't add up. One player alone can't fix a match. A goalkeeper can let in a soft penalty, but even that can't guarantee a result. And they would still have to offer him squillions when the average goalie can make millions a year.

    This is a betting site right ?
    You can bet on number of corners, fouls, red cards, yellow cards, ect.
    Not just who wins.

    A player can help you to get the right number in exhange for a price, it's another form of match fixing but still match fixing.

    Say you bet 100k on player X to get a yellow card at match Y, and the player X agrees to get a yellow card in exchange for half of the profits, it's still match fixing.
    So which bookies take 100k single bets on yellow cards?

    Name names.
    IBCBet
  • On Allerdyce, this is worth a read:

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/sep/27/sam-allardyce-arrogant-clot-england-manager

    "Whether that means he deserved to lose his job is another matter entirely and, even as a non-Allardyce fan, having questioned his relationship with Curtis more than once, it is still not entirely straightforward understanding what the FA has seen in those secretly taped recordings to warrant the guillotine.

    Presumably, the relevant people have decided it is untenable for an organisation that stands in judgment on others to employ someone who just informed two undercover reporters, posing as representatives from a football agency based in south-east Asia, that it is “not a problem” to get round the rules of third-party ownership, despite the practice being banned in 2008. Yet that quote is referring to the fact that when Allardyce was managing West Ham they signed Enner Valencia despite him being precisely in that position. The ownership agreement ended when the transfer went through and West Ham signed him “whole”. Something similar happened with Manchester United and Marcus Rojo. It is not a problem, as Allardyce says, getting round it.

    He should not expect a great deal of sympathy but in the grand scheme of managerial scandals it is certainly a few notches down from the passage in Joey Barton’s newly released autobiography about.......

    Compare that with Allardyce’s response when asked about paying people to secure business. “Oh, oh, you’re not – do not,” he says. “I haven’t heard that. I haven’t heard that, you stupid man. What are you talking about? You idiot. You can have that conversation when I’m not here. Allardyce is so aghast by the suggestion he leans back and drapes a napkin over his face. Later he gives the man who brought it up, his long-term friend and football agent Scott McGarvey, another going-over. “You slipped up tonight. You can’t go there any more. You can’t pay a player, you can’t pay a manager, you can’t pay a CEO. It used to happen 20 odd years ago, 30 years ago. You can’t do it now. You can’t do it now. Don’t ever go there.” None of which really falls in line with the caricature of the man who regards rules as optional. If this sounds like a defence of Allardyce it is merely to give that part of the story some extra prominence given the Telegraph buried the quotes somewhere near the bottom of the 2,000-word article that has brought him down."
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    Speedy said:

    SeanT said:



    Even then it just doesn't add up. One player alone can't fix a match. A goalkeeper can let in a soft penalty, but even that can't guarantee a result. And they would still have to offer him squillions when the average goalie can make millions a year.

    This is a betting site right ?
    You can bet on number of corners, fouls, red cards, yellow cards, ect.
    Not just who wins.

    A player can help you to get the right number in exhange for a price, it's another form of match fixing but still match fixing.

    Say you bet 100k on player X to get a yellow card at match Y, and the player X agrees to get a yellow card in exchange for half of the profits, it's still match fixing.
    So which bookies take 100k single bets on yellow cards?

    Name names.
    I've heard of shady east asian ones in Singapore.

    They where also involved in other match fixing scandals on the continent a few years ago.
  • SeanT said:

    On Allerdyce, this is worth a read:

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/sep/27/sam-allardyce-arrogant-clot-england-manager

    "Whether that means he deserved to lose his job is another matter entirely and, even as a non-Allardyce fan, having questioned his relationship with Curtis more than once, it is still not entirely straightforward understanding what the FA has seen in those secretly taped recordings to warrant the guillotine.

    Presumably, the relevant people have decided it is untenable for an organisation that stands in judgment on others to employ someone who just informed two undercover reporters, posing as representatives from a football agency based in south-east Asia, that it is “not a problem” to get round the rules of third-party ownership, despite the practice being banned in 2008. Yet that quote is referring to the fact that when Allardyce was managing West Ham they signed Enner Valencia despite him being precisely in that position. The ownership agreement ended when the transfer went through and West Ham signed him “whole”. Something similar happened with Manchester United and Marcus Rojo. It is not a problem, as Allardyce says, getting round it.

    He should not expect a great deal of sympathy but in the grand scheme of managerial scandals it is certainly a few notches down from the passage in Joey Barton’s newly released autobiography about.......

    Compare that with Allardyce’s response when asked about paying people to secure business. “Oh, oh, you’re not – do not,” he says. “I haven’t heard that. I haven’t heard that, you stupid man. What are you talking about? You idiot. You can have that conversation when I’m not here. Allardyce is so aghast by the suggestion he leans back and drapes a napkin over his face. Later he gives the man who brought it up, his long-term friend and football agent Scott McGarvey, another going-over. “You slipped up tonight. You can’t go there any more. You can’t pay a player, you can’t pay a manager, you can’t pay a CEO. It used to happen 20 odd years ago, 30 years ago. You can’t do it now. You can’t do it now. Don’t ever go there.” None of which really falls in line with the caricature of the man who regards rules as optional. If this sounds like a defence of Allardyce it is merely to give that part of the story some extra prominence given the Telegraph buried the quotes somewhere near the bottom of the 2,000-word article that has brought him down."

    Hmm. That does rather put a different gloss on things. And reinforces the idea that the EPL is fairly incorruptible (simply coz it is so rich it doesn't need the dosh)

    Starting to feel sorry for Big Sam.
    Have you seen the video on when he says this? Make your opinion when you have seen it rather than the text.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 34,390
    edited September 2016
    SeanT said:

    Fuck me.

    "Corbyn's spokesman told journalists: “He is not concerned about numbers,” adding that rather than seeking controls on immigration, Labour would seek to mitigate its effects on low-paid workers by reintroducing a “migrant impact fund”."

    Not concerned about numbers. Half a million migrants a year, three million, eight billion, Labour OFFICIALLY DOESN'T CARE

    Suicidal.
    Did you also see he also said he is happy to negotiate with AQ and Al-Nusra, just not IS.
  • Speedy said:



    It's increadibly easy to fix matches in football.

    Just think, all matches are determined with a score of at most half a dozen goals, most times a single goal is enough to win.

    The referees have the power to give a goal to a team through a penalty or to aid them as close as possible to the goal posts with a variety of means, of even to cancel a goal from the opposite team and to keep them away from the goal posts.

    Then you have .......

    It is all the more easy in the absence of video replays which provide for some means of reversing the most blatant examples of such refereeing.

    Depending on your view of the degree of corruption within FIFA, that may or may not be the reason why we still don't have video replays in football.




  • SeanT said:

    Fuck me.

    "Corbyn's spokesman told journalists: “He is not concerned about numbers,” adding that rather than seeking controls on immigration, Labour would seek to mitigate its effects on low-paid workers by reintroducing a “migrant impact fund”."

    Not concerned about numbers. Half a million migrants a year, three million, eight billion, Labour OFFICIALLY DOESN'T CARE

    Suicidal.
    Did you also see he also said he is happy to negotiate with AQ and Al-Nusra, just not IS.
    IS aren't "progressive" enough.
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,536
    Speedy said:

    Speedy said:

    SeanT said:

    tlg86 said:

    On topic, Give it time

    Off topic, Forget bungs, this is explosive

    The same individual, who used to manage a high profile team, had also fixed a game, Mr Pagliara claimed. The manager’s representatives yesterday described the allegations as “completely false”. In several instances, he admitted that he had personally paid the officials “bungs” to secure deals.

    Blimey.
    Bungs is priced in.

    Match fixing takes this to a whole new level.

    Mr Pagliara, an unlicensed agent who was banned from football for five years in 2005 for match-fixing.
    Match fixing means chokey
    It's increadibly easy to fix matches in football.

    Just think, all matches are determined with a score of at most half a dozen goals, most times a single goal is enough to win.

    The referees have the power to give a goal to a team through a penalty or to aid them as close as possible to the goal posts with a variety of means, of even to cancel a goal from the opposite team and to keep them away from the goal posts.

    Then you have the goalkeepers who can be bent to look the other way.

    Then you have the other players to play a bad game.

    And finally the coatch who can sabotage his own team.

    That's why I prefer basketball.
    In that sport the referee has less power, and since the winning score is so high and with no goalkeeper it's much more difficult to fix a basketball match.
    Erhhhhhhh.....waves arms.....NBA refs were found to be match fixing only a few years ago...the high score doesn't matter as most games are very close and a foul here and there is all you need to affect the game.

    Also again three is big number of the over / under in high scoring sports, so again the ref can affect that by calling fouls / turns overs etc.
    True, but a single foul in a game where the score can run over 50 and can reach over 100 is worth less than a penalty in a game where the score can run over 1 and can reach 7-8 max.

    It's not impossible to fix a basketball match, it's just more difficult than in football.
    It's probably easier to consistently fix matches in basketball. Penalties and disallowed goals are relatively rare and scrutinised closely. Over multiple matches it'd become rather glaring.

    In basketball it's much easier to call fouls on a team tighter, give them more free throws or get an important player in foul trouble. It's much easier to affect the score in a consistent and subtle manner.
  • SeanT said:

    Fuck me.

    "Corbyn's spokesman told journalists: “He is not concerned about numbers,” adding that rather than seeking controls on immigration, Labour would seek to mitigate its effects on low-paid workers by reintroducing a “migrant impact fund”."

    Not concerned about numbers. Half a million migrants a year, three million, eight billion, Labour OFFICIALLY DOESN'T CARE

    Suicidal.
    Corbyn officially doesn't care. He is, indeed, hopeless. Look at recent statements from many Labour MPs though, and you'll be pleasantly surprised. A lot depends on how the events to 2020 play out.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 34,390
    edited September 2016
    corporeal said:



    It's probably easier to consistently fix matches in basketball. Penalties and disallowed goals are relatively rare and scrutinised closely. Over multiple matches it'd become rather glaring.

    In basketball it's much easier to call fouls on a team tighter, give them more free throws or get an important player in foul trouble. It's much easier to affect the score in a consistent and subtle manner.

    Like spot fixing in cricket, you can make it really subtle. Just adjusting / affecting the rate of scoring by slowing down play.

    The world top basketball better worked out that a number of refs were bent in the NBA several years ago, because his high sophisticated models would not line up with the real world events. Only when he did incredibly detailed analysis thinking he had a flaw in his model did he realised what was going on, and this is despite watching every game by eye he hadn't seen anything dodgy.
  • RobD said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Gah. It is not called EPL.

    Yes it is, worldwide.
    I have no problem with the rest of the world being wrong, but here, in this country, it is the Premier League.

    Just as we don't call the County Championship the ECC.
    But we do call it the ECB. Given the global nature of football nowadays it is sensible to use a universal acronym that is crystal clear what you mean.
    Maybe an anglo-centric view, but when someone says Premier League in a football context it is very likely they are referring to the English one.
    Yes but people don't write PL very often. Google recognises both EPL and BPL as the Premier League but it does not recognise PL. The acronym EPL (or equally valid acronym of BPL) is shorter to write than Premier League.
  • corporeal said:



    It's probably easier to consistently fix matches in basketball. Penalties and disallowed goals are relatively rare and scrutinised closely. Over multiple matches it'd become rather glaring.

    In basketball it's much easier to call fouls on a team tighter, give them more free throws or get an important player in foul trouble. It's much easier to affect the score in a consistent and subtle manner.

    Like spot fixing in cricket, you can make it really subtle. Just adjusting / affecting the rate of scoring by slowing down play.

    The world top basketball better worked out that a number of refs were bent in the NBA several years ago, because his high sophisticated models would not line up with the real world events. Only when he did incredibly detailed analysis thinking he had a flaw in his model did he realised what was going on, and this is despite watching every game by eye he hadn't seen anything dodgy.
    Correct, although that's difficult to square with Speedy's claim that "In that sport the referee has less power, and since the winning score is so high and with no goalkeeper it's much more difficult to fix a basketball match."

    Never mind.
  • Speedy said:

    SeanT said:



    Even then it just doesn't add up. One player alone can't fix a match. A goalkeeper can let in a soft penalty, but even that can't guarantee a result. And they would still have to offer him squillions when the average goalie can make millions a year.

    This is a betting site right ?
    You can bet on number of corners, fouls, red cards, yellow cards, ect.
    Not just who wins.

    A player can help you to get the right number in exhange for a price, it's another form of match fixing but still match fixing.

    Say you bet 100k on player X to get a yellow card at match Y, and the player X agrees to get a yellow card in exchange for half of the profits, it's still match fixing.
    That's known as spot fixing, which while a form of match fixing it is not what is normally meant by match fixing. Match fixing means fixing the result while spot fixing is what you described.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 34,390
    edited September 2016

    corporeal said:



    It's probably easier to consistently fix matches in basketball. Penalties and disallowed goals are relatively rare and scrutinised closely. Over multiple matches it'd become rather glaring.

    In basketball it's much easier to call fouls on a team tighter, give them more free throws or get an important player in foul trouble. It's much easier to affect the score in a consistent and subtle manner.

    Like spot fixing in cricket, you can make it really subtle. Just adjusting / affecting the rate of scoring by slowing down play.

    The world top basketball better worked out that a number of refs were bent in the NBA several years ago, because his high sophisticated models would not line up with the real world events. Only when he did incredibly detailed analysis thinking he had a flaw in his model did he realised what was going on, and this is despite watching every game by eye he hadn't seen anything dodgy.
    Correct, although that's difficult to square with Speedy's claim that "In that sport the referee has less power, and since the winning score is so high and with no goalkeeper it's much more difficult to fix a basketball match."

    Never mind.
    Speedy is quite simply wrong on this. It happened, its fact, one ref went to jail and those in the know are certain it was much wider spread.

    Haralabos Voulgaris has made a career for the past 10+ years as the world top basketball bettor, it is known his analytics / game modelling is superior to even used by the pro teams and he has been interviewed about his on several occasions, explaining how and why it works.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 26,746
    edited September 2016
    "The UK Could ‘Explode’ Into Riots If Immigration Is Not Curbed By Brexit, warns Labour’s Rachel Reeves"

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/rachel-reeves-brexit-immigration-riots_uk_57ea791ee4b00e5804ef5ae0
This discussion has been closed.