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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » A rather subdued speech by TMay which did not have much sub

SystemSystem Posts: 11,683
edited October 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » A rather subdued speech by TMay which did not have much substance

The first speech by a newly elected leader is always a big occasion. Its a big platform that gets wide coverage where they can set of their vision and what they see as the way forward.

Read the full story here


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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,443
    edited October 2016
    She's just a pound shop Ed Miliband/Gordon Brown.
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    Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    edited October 2016

    She's just a pound shop Ed Miliband/Gordon Brown.

    Harsh. But very possibly fair. Not being Andrea Leadsom is good but only gets you so far.
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    Undercover journalist Mazher Mahmood, known as the Fake Sheikh, has been found guilty of conspiring to pervert the course of justice.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282
    edited October 2016
    Fourth. Like UKIP (at best)
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    Ishmael_X said:

    She's just a pound shop Ed Miliband/Gordon Brown.

    Harsh. But very possibly fair. Not being Andrea Leadsom is good but only gets you so far.
    The foreign doctors/Jonny Foreigners list speaks volumes about her.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Let's have an election in 2017 and see whether people agree with Theresa May's vision for the country.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    'The foreign doctors/Jonny Foreigners list speaks volumes about her. '

    Rudd is way out of her depth. Way out.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282
    The response was subdued because it contained relatively little Tory 'red meat' and was principally aimed at the centrist floating voter. The latter heard a lot of the things they wanted to hear, but precious little about how any of it is to happen.
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    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    Janan Ganesh
    @JananGanesh Economic liberals who voted Leave to get a more free-market economy: it's alright, walk it off.
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    From prev thread in response to a question about inflation.. I cannot really give a figure.. economists will be able to.. but pain there will be...how much is the question...
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    I guess May has calculated that the free market Thatcherite right can go f8ck themselves.

    Who else are they going to vote for?
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    FPT

    I'm worried for the government at the moment. This is not what people voted for in 2015. Brexit may have changed the political landscape, but abandoning free market economics and instituting semi-market economics is not what people voted for. If she wants to make such a radical departure from the 2015 manifesto then she should put it to the people.
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    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    taffys said:

    I guess May has calculated that the free market Thatcherite right can go f8ck themselves.

    Who else are they going to vote for?

    In a few years time the EU will look like a free market utopia compared to the UK.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005
    edited October 2016
    She is not Thatcher no, May is 10 points ahead in the polls unlike Thatcher who was 10 points behind at this stage of her premiership as she pursued a far more laissez faire and monetarist agenda. In style May is more Merkel
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,150
    AndyJS said:

    Let's have an election in 2017 and see whether people agree with Theresa May's vision for the country.

    Thanks to Jeremy Corbyn and the magic of FPTP, an election would deliver a mandate for pretty much anything she could possibly come up with.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005

    She's just a pound shop Ed Miliband/Gordon Brown.

    More John Major
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited October 2016
    There is zero red meat because May will ban it as unhealthy. It seems we are going to have an interventioist Govt.. that always ends badly. ...
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005
    JonathanD said:

    taffys said:

    I guess May has calculated that the free market Thatcherite right can go f8ck themselves.

    Who else are they going to vote for?

    In a few years time the EU will look like a free market utopia compared to the UK.
    Not France certainly
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Mrs May should be reminded that energy prices crashed about a year after Ed wanted to put his price freeze in place. If prices were frozen and people were tied into longer term contracts then everyone would have been paying over the odds for a couple of years. It was the free market that saw energy prices fall.
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    AndyJS said:

    Let's have an election in 2017 and see whether people agree with Theresa May's vision for the country.

    Thanks to Jeremy Corbyn and the magic of FPTP, an election would deliver a mandate for pretty much anything she could possibly come up with.
    Indeed. She could stand on a platform consisting of nothing more than free biscuits for labradors and still win easily.

    Such is the abject shiteness of Corbyn and his dimwit acolytes.
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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    HYUFD said:

    She is not Thatcher no, May is 10 points ahead in the polls unlike Thatcher who was 10 points behind at this stage of her premiership as she pursued a far more laissez faire and monetarist agenda. In style May is more Merkel

    Thatcher was NOT 10% behind at this stage. LAB had lead of 1-2% 84 days in

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    mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    taffys said:

    'The foreign doctors/Jonny Foreigners list speaks volumes about her. '

    Rudd is way out of her depth. Way out.

    Is there a woman (other than May) that you would ever characterise as not out of their depth?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005
    taffys said:

    I guess May has calculated that the free market Thatcherite right can go f8ck themselves.

    Who else are they going to vote for?

    UKIP is the only alternative for them but May unless the LDs were led by the likes of Laws but May is targeting existing UKIP voters
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    matt said:

    taffys said:

    'The foreign doctors/Jonny Foreigners list speaks volumes about her. '

    Rudd is way out of her depth. Way out.

    Is there a woman (other than May) that you would ever characterise as not out of their depth?
    Thatcher I would guess.
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    jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,261
    Thatcher was a one off, both in terms of people who loved her and those that hate her. It must be difficult for May living in the great womans shadow, everything she does gets compared to her.

    Did anyone else think the speech was like the kind of like the one you give before going into an election? Granted it was obvious that because she's a new leader she wanted people to get to know her vision and what she stands for but there was a lot of stuff you see in a pre GE speech.

    There will be no election until 2020 and I believe her but still people will only increasingly speculate after that speech.

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    ChrisChris Posts: 11,124
    Just out of interest, does anyone now see her as a supreme strategist with a secret master-plan for Brexit?
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,715
    Rhetoric alert. "Outward-looking" is the platitude de nos jours, if I am allowed to use that elitist foreign language. It replaces "hard-working families".

    Even Heathrow Airport is outward-looking according to the banner ad at the top of the page.
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    MaxPB said:

    FPT

    I'm worried for the government at the moment. This is not what people voted for in 2015. Brexit may have changed the political landscape, but abandoning free market economics and instituting semi-market economics is not what people voted for. If she wants to make such a radical departure from the 2015 manifesto then she should put it to the people.

    So that she could win a thumping majority and carry on as before ?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Fixing commodity prices was a policy so foolish it provoked a rare bout of criticism from Ammianus Marcellinus for Julian the Apostate. As the historian observed, such policies cause shortages, and even famine. They're utter foolishness.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,304
    edited October 2016
    MaxPB said:

    FPT

    I'm worried for the government at the moment. This is not what people voted for in 2015. Brexit may have changed the political landscape, but abandoning free market economics and instituting semi-market economics is not what people voted for. If she wants to make such a radical departure from the 2015 manifesto then she should put it to the people.

    She has decided that the free market didn't work for many people in this country; the anger that this failure generated resulted in the Brexit vote. Ergo she wants to curtail the free market and make the government instead of the free market work for those many people.

    Of course it is all symptom, not cause but it makes for a great soundbite at conference. Neither is it my preferred flavour of Conservative.
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    Ishmael_X said:

    She's just a pound shop Ed Miliband/Gordon Brown.

    Harsh. But very possibly fair. Not being Andrea Leadsom is good but only gets you so far.
    The foreign doctors/Jonny Foreigners list speaks volumes about her.
    It is the approach of an interventionist/meddler in a company whereas work permit fees paid by employers would be an approach of setting the rules for the market and then letting companies compete within the rules. It would also need less Govt and generate revenues for govt.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005

    HYUFD said:

    She is not Thatcher no, May is 10 points ahead in the polls unlike Thatcher who was 10 points behind at this stage of her premiership as she pursued a far more laissez faire and monetarist agenda. In style May is more Merkel

    Thatcher was NOT 10% behind at this stage. LAB had lead of 1-2% 84 days in

    OK perhaps overestimated the Labour lead at this stage, though it grew but the point remains May has a comfortable lead at this stage while Thatcher was behind
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    One of the interesting snippets I heard at conference was that Mrs May has really damaged the case for grammar schools because of the lack of answers about the children who fail to get into grammar schools.


    I might warm to Mrs May after all.
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    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    FPT

    I'm worried for the government at the moment. This is not what people voted for in 2015. Brexit may have changed the political landscape, but abandoning free market economics and instituting semi-market economics is not what people voted for. If she wants to make such a radical departure from the 2015 manifesto then she should put it to the people.

    She has decided that the free market didn't work for many people in this country; the anger that this failure generated resulted in the Brexit vote. Ergo she wants to curtail the free market and make the government instead of the free market work for those many people.

    Of course it is all symptom, not cause but it makes for a great soundbite at conference. Neither is it my preferred flavour of Conservative.

    She has embraced Milibandism and Fragism all at once. Does that make her a Milibargist?

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    It is too early to judge Mrs May. We have the rhetoric, but few actions and decisions.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,304
    Does anyone in UKIP agree with anyone else? I think it even outbonkers Lab because at least there we roughly know the various factions.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Maggie Thatcher wasn't Maggie Thatcher until about 8 years into the job.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005

    One of the interesting snippets I heard at conference was that Mrs May has really damaged the case for grammar schools because of the lack of answers about the children who fail to get into grammar schools.


    I might warm to Mrs May after all.

    Only as the plans were leaked. Technical schools, academies etc should all be considered and there are admissions to grammars at 13 and 16 too
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Is there a woman (other than May) that you would ever characterise as not out of their depth?

    As a Thatcherite conservative (PBUH) I would say the answer to that is yes. Thatcher towers over every conservative (and labour) politician since Churchill.

    I also argued strongly for Leadsom for leader, if you check the threads.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    FPT

    I'm worried for the government at the moment. This is not what people voted for in 2015. Brexit may have changed the political landscape, but abandoning free market economics and instituting semi-market economics is not what people voted for. If she wants to make such a radical departure from the 2015 manifesto then she should put it to the people.

    She has decided that the free market didn't work for many people in this country; the anger that this failure generated resulted in the Brexit vote. Ergo she wants to curtail the free market and make the government instead of the free market work for those many people.

    Of course it is all symptom, not cause but it makes for a great soundbite at conference. Neither is it my preferred flavour of Conservative.
    Treating the symptoms rarely works in the long term. Reforming education is the answer. Making British workers more attractive to businesses while also getting on top of the housing crisis to reduce the major cost of living is the answer. More government is not what we need or what will work.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,304

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    FPT

    I'm worried for the government at the moment. This is not what people voted for in 2015. Brexit may have changed the political landscape, but abandoning free market economics and instituting semi-market economics is not what people voted for. If she wants to make such a radical departure from the 2015 manifesto then she should put it to the people.

    She has decided that the free market didn't work for many people in this country; the anger that this failure generated resulted in the Brexit vote. Ergo she wants to curtail the free market and make the government instead of the free market work for those many people.

    Of course it is all symptom, not cause but it makes for a great soundbite at conference. Neither is it my preferred flavour of Conservative.

    She has embraced Milibandism and Fragism all at once. Does that make her a Milibargist?

    Farabandette?
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    I'm beginning to hope that Dave and Boris making amends will mean the Notting Hill set will get the band back together and depose May if she goes top far off the reservation.
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    FPT

    I'm worried for the government at the moment. This is not what people voted for in 2015. Brexit may have changed the political landscape, but abandoning free market economics and instituting semi-market economics is not what people voted for. If she wants to make such a radical departure from the 2015 manifesto then she should put it to the people.

    She has decided that the free market didn't work for many people in this country; the anger that this failure generated resulted in the Brexit vote. Ergo she wants to curtail the free market and make the government instead of the free market work for those many people.

    Of course it is all symptom, not cause but it makes for a great soundbite at conference. Neither is it my preferred flavour of Conservative.
    Treating the symptoms rarely works in the long term. Reforming education is the answer. Making British workers more attractive to businesses while also getting on top of the housing crisis to reduce the major cost of living is the answer. More government is not what we need or what will work.
    Reforming education has a 20+ year lead time, and yes its essential, but it has two big flaws. Most obviously it won't yield anything useful in four years for the next election, but also the problem will persist for almost all of those 20 years and the voters are demanding a quicker fix than that, and if she doesnt give it to them, they will try and elect someone else to do it.
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    TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited October 2016

    One of the interesting snippets I heard at conference was that Mrs May has really damaged the case for grammar schools because of the lack of answers about the children who fail to get into grammar schools.
    ...

    This is very true. It was an unnecessary own goal. A simple "we are reviewing this" would have sufficed. No new schools are going to be delivering 18 year old grammar school pupils for at least 8 years. A date when Mrs May has probably retired.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    MaxPB said:

    I'm beginning to hope that Dave and Boris making amends will mean the Notting Hill set will get the band back together and depose May if she goes top far off the reservation.

    School tie trumps party.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited October 2016
    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    FPT

    I'm worried for the government at the moment. This is not what people voted for in 2015. Brexit may have changed the political landscape, but abandoning free market economics and instituting semi-market economics is not what people voted for. If she wants to make such a radical departure from the 2015 manifesto then she should put it to the people.

    She has decided that the free market didn't work for many people in this country; the anger that this failure generated resulted in the Brexit vote. Ergo she wants to curtail the free market and make the government instead of the free market work for those many people.

    Of course it is all symptom, not cause but it makes for a great soundbite at conference. Neither is it my preferred flavour of Conservative.
    Treating the symptoms rarely works in the long term. Reforming education is the answer. Making British workers more attractive to businesses while also getting on top of the housing crisis to reduce the major cost of living is the answer. More government is not what we need or what will work.
    One of the worst bits of here speech is when she starts banging on about auditting the government to see which groups are unrepresented etc etc etc. The reason simple, the demographics coming out of the top universities and the reason for that is not racism, it is secondary education. And we know if you start secondary education lagging it is an uphill struggle....

    Its not rocket science and why KIPPs is so successful.

    If the government is going to get interventionist about things, the place to do it is early years / education, not counting how many people of Sri Lankan descent work in the Culture and Media Department of the government, and demanding we take graduates from crappier universities / courses just to even out the numbers.

    Plus do admissions to unis post results, so any bias based upon perceived difference in quality of students from certain schools with the same predicted grades is wiped out by the hard facts of actual results.
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    FPT

    I'm worried for the government at the moment. This is not what people voted for in 2015. Brexit may have changed the political landscape, but abandoning free market economics and instituting semi-market economics is not what people voted for. If she wants to make such a radical departure from the 2015 manifesto then she should put it to the people.

    She has decided that the free market didn't work for many people in this country; the anger that this failure generated resulted in the Brexit vote. Ergo she wants to curtail the free market and make the government instead of the free market work for those many people.

    Of course it is all symptom, not cause but it makes for a great soundbite at conference. Neither is it my preferred flavour of Conservative.

    She has embraced Milibandism and Fragism all at once. Does that make her a Milibargist?

    Nationalism and Socialism can be a very popular combination.
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Nigel is back in charge! Who'd have thunk it? :D

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37561065
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    For those wondering, as I'm sure many of you aren't, on my position, I'm ambivalent.

    But then, I'm in a red-blue marginal. If Labour looks like it might win the seat, I'd feel I have a duty to vote Conservative just to keep Corbyn away from Downing Street. If Labour sink, I could consider voting elsewhere.

    Said for a long time we really need a valid opposition. Instead we've got a bloody Communist.
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    Does this mean that Hammond's autumn statement will have more tax cuts and incentives for business? Maybe even a rolliing back of red tape?

    Paul Waugh ✔ @paulwaugh
    Biggest big ticket item of all in May speech is clear hint she'll decommission the QE bazooka. Aides say AutumnStatement will signal change
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Interesting North Carolina factoid.

    At the start of Postal Voting unreturned postal votes by affiliation stood at 35% Rep, 37% Dem, 28% Independent

    By the 23rd Of September (1st Debate) unreturned postal votes were 35% Rep, 36% Dem, 29% Independent.

    As of yesterday it's: 41% Rep, 31% Dem, 28% Independent unreturned.
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    JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    Theresa May will never be a polished and exciting performer, and she would be the first to admit it. Comparing her to Margaret Thatcher is infantile (and, of course, designed to provoke). Overall, a rather dull speech, I thought, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Her best line was nailing Labour, though. The anti-Semitism that has been allowed to foster in Labour's ranks has been one of the most shameful episodes in British politics, so well done to May for calling it out on a very public stage.

    Anyway, a very long way to go in her Premiership, but as it stands today, I offer her a decent dose of good will and wish her well - at least for now.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited October 2016
    Well, she followed my advice of a few days ago: not too showy, and not trying to make many jokes (other than the Boris one, which was OK). She's not a great orator, and sensibly didn't try to be.

    I don't think there was any policy content at all, was there? Still, that's OK for the moment, and using the speech to reiterate her political positioning was fair enough. It's not really very different from Cameron's, other than on grammar schools, but the style is different. People like a change (after all, Cameron had been going for a decade), so some will find it refreshing. I expect her style will grate more quickly than Cameron's did, though.
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    tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,546
    All I'd say is that if Amber Rudd is a Lib Dem sleeper, she's doing a great job.

    All this shaming companies for employing foreign workers is an absolute gift for where Farron is trying to pitch the party.

    And with Corbyn AWOL and UKIP just A - this is open goal territory.
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    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956
    MikeK said:

    Nigel is back in charge! Who'd have thunk it? :D

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37561065

    UKIP chairman Paul Oakden told BBC Radio 4's Today he would look to hold an emergency meeting of the party's NEC to confirm the process for electing Ms James's replacement.
    "Whilst the decision is unfortunate, it is one that Diane is entitled to make. We thank her for all her work as leader, and as a hard-working MEP, a role she will continue with her customary vigour."

    All her work as leader? All 18 days of it?
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    I suspect some advisers have had words and the subdued tone was intentional. If Brexit goes horribly wrong then any triumphalism or arrogance would look very bad retrospectively. We'd be in John Major territory six days before Black Wednesday:

    'The soft option, the devaluer's option, the inflationary option, in my judgment that would be a betrayal of our future at this moment, and I tell you categorically that is not the government's policy.'
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    MaxPB said:

    I'm beginning to hope that Dave and Boris making amends will mean the Notting Hill set will get the band back together and depose May if she goes top far off the reservation.

    You do realise Dave has gone, don't you?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. Essexit, she's beaten both Allardyce[sp] and Entwhistle[sp] for short terms of office.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Indigo said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    FPT

    I'm worried for the government at the moment. This is not what people voted for in 2015. Brexit may have changed the political landscape, but abandoning free market economics and instituting semi-market economics is not what people voted for. If she wants to make such a radical departure from the 2015 manifesto then she should put it to the people.

    She has decided that the free market didn't work for many people in this country; the anger that this failure generated resulted in the Brexit vote. Ergo she wants to curtail the free market and make the government instead of the free market work for those many people.

    Of course it is all symptom, not cause but it makes for a great soundbite at conference. Neither is it my preferred flavour of Conservative.
    Treating the symptoms rarely works in the long term. Reforming education is the answer. Making British workers more attractive to businesses while also getting on top of the housing crisis to reduce the major cost of living is the answer. More government is not what we need or what will work.
    Reforming education has a 20+ year lead time, and yes its essential, but it has two big flaws. Most obviously it won't yield anything useful in four years for the next election, but also the problem will persist for almost all of those 20 years and the voters are demanding a quicker fix than that, and if she doesnt give it to them, they will try and elect someone else to do it.
    So how about this:

    £12.50 NLW, universal childcare from age 1-4, a year of split parental leave, child tax credits turned into additional tax allowances, working tax credits and housing benefits eliminated. Families with a stay at home parent get to transfer their tax free allowance in lieu of childcare. Eliminate employer's NI and lower corporation tax to 12.5% for SMEs and 15% for big business in order to pave the way for higher wages.

    A system that will ensure there are fewer low paid people and no excuses for not taking on more work and not working full time, even for single parents.
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    She is really boring.
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    If the government is going to get interventionist about things, the place to do it is early years / education, not counting how many people of Sri Lankan descent work in the Culture and Media Department of the government.

    That might prove to be an own goal anyway, surveying a group of London public sector workers to see if they are... what was that expression again ? oh yes, "hideously white" may not give the expected answer.


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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282
    An end to QE should see a stock market wobble. So far it's just thinking about it...
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''Biggest big ticket item of all in May speech is clear hint she'll decommission the QE bazooka. Aides say AutumnStatement will signal change ''

    Sorry isn't QE a matter for the independent BoE??
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,443
    edited October 2016

    MaxPB said:

    I'm beginning to hope that Dave and Boris making amends will mean the Notting Hill set will get the band back together and depose May if she goes top far off the reservation.

    You do realise Dave has gone, don't you?
    The Provisional Wing of the Continuity Cameroon Army haven't gone away you know.
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    mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    Does this mean that Hammond's autumn statement will have more tax cuts and incentives for business? Maybe even a rolliing back of red tape?

    Paul Waugh ✔ @paulwaugh
    Biggest big ticket item of all in May speech is clear hint she'll decommission the QE bazooka. Aides say AutumnStatement will signal change

    Is QE her decision? I can see where we are heading though re the Bank of England and there's a good quote from Ken Clarke's autobiography on the subject:

    Robin Leigh-Pemberton was a pleasant but not very forceful country gentleman who had been appointed by Margaret Thatcher for precisely those qualities: she had hoped to control him.
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    MaxPB said:

    Indigo said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    FPT

    I'm worried for the government at the moment. This is not what people voted for in 2015. Brexit may have changed the political landscape, but abandoning free market economics and instituting semi-market economics is not what people voted for. If she wants to make such a radical departure from the 2015 manifesto then she should put it to the people.

    She has decided that the free market didn't work for many people in this country; the anger that this failure generated resulted in the Brexit vote. Ergo she wants to curtail the free market and make the government instead of the free market work for those many people.

    Of course it is all symptom, not cause but it makes for a great soundbite at conference. Neither is it my preferred flavour of Conservative.
    Treating the symptoms rarely works in the long term. Reforming education is the answer. Making British workers more attractive to businesses while also getting on top of the housing crisis to reduce the major cost of living is the answer. More government is not what we need or what will work.
    Reforming education has a 20+ year lead time, and yes its essential, but it has two big flaws. Most obviously it won't yield anything useful in four years for the next election, but also the problem will persist for almost all of those 20 years and the voters are demanding a quicker fix than that, and if she doesnt give it to them, they will try and elect someone else to do it.
    So how about this:

    £12.50 NLW, universal childcare from age 1-4, a year of split parental leave, child tax credits turned into additional tax allowances, working tax credits and housing benefits eliminated. Families with a stay at home parent get to transfer their tax free allowance in lieu of childcare. Eliminate employer's NI and lower corporation tax to 12.5% for SMEs and 15% for big business in order to pave the way for higher wages.

    A system that will ensure there are fewer low paid people and no excuses for not taking on more work and not working full time, even for single parents.
    A £12.50 NLW will definitely hit jobs, and all the rest are all spending items, some of them very expensive spending items, are they not, and the government is trying to cut spending.
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    MaxPB said:

    I'm beginning to hope that Dave and Boris making amends will mean the Notting Hill set will get the band back together and depose May if she goes top far off the reservation.

    You do realise Dave has gone, don't you?
    The Provisional Wing of the Cameroon Continuity Army haven't gone away you know.
    Yeah, but they need to find a new leader.
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    For those wondering, as I'm sure many of you aren't, on my position, I'm ambivalent.

    But then, I'm in a red-blue marginal. If Labour looks like it might win the seat, I'd feel I have a duty to vote Conservative just to keep Corbyn away from Downing Street. If Labour sink, I could consider voting elsewhere.

    Said for a long time we really need a valid opposition. Instead we've got a bloody Communist.

    I don't know why you openly do not say you are a true blue Tory. Everyone knows it.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    MaxPB said:

    I'm beginning to hope that Dave and Boris making amends will mean the Notting Hill set will get the band back together and depose May if she goes top far off the reservation.

    You do realise Dave has gone, don't you?
    Dave might be gone, but his friends are still there.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,674
    Jonathan said:

    Maggie Thatcher wasn't Maggie Thatcher until about 8 years into the job.

    Exactly - early Thatcher was all about 'when will we get rid of her?' - until General Galtieri saved her bacon.

    Lets wait for tomorrow's front pages, shall we?
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    MaxPB said:

    I'm beginning to hope that Dave and Boris making amends will mean the Notting Hill set will get the band back together and depose May if she goes top far off the reservation.

    You do realise Dave has gone, don't you?
    The Provisional Wing of the Cameroon Continuity Army haven't gone away you know.
    Yeah, but they need to find a new leader.
    Cameron's Vicar on Earth is still in the Commons.
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    MaxPB said:

    Indigo said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    FPT

    I'm worried for the government at the moment. This is not what people voted for in 2015. Brexit may have changed the political landscape, but abandoning free market economics and instituting semi-market economics is not what people voted for. If she wants to make such a radical departure from the 2015 manifesto then she should put it to the people.

    She has decided that the free market didn't work for many people in this country; the anger that this failure generated resulted in the Brexit vote. Ergo she wants to curtail the free market and make the government instead of the free market work for those many people.

    Of course it is all symptom, not cause but it makes for a great soundbite at conference. Neither is it my preferred flavour of Conservative.
    Treating the symptoms rarely works in the long term. Reforming education is the answer. Making British workers more attractive to businesses while also getting on top of the housing crisis to reduce the major cost of living is the answer. More government is not what we need or what will work.
    Reforming education has a 20+ year lead time, and yes its essential, but it has two big flaws. Most obviously it won't yield anything useful in four years for the next election, but also the problem will persist for almost all of those 20 years and the voters are demanding a quicker fix than that, and if she doesnt give it to them, they will try and elect someone else to do it.
    So how about this:

    £12.50 NLW, universal childcare from age 1-4, a year of split parental leave, child tax credits turned into additional tax allowances, working tax credits and housing benefits eliminated. Families with a stay at home parent get to transfer their tax free allowance in lieu of childcare. Eliminate employer's NI and lower corporation tax to 12.5% for SMEs and 15% for big business in order to pave the way for higher wages.

    A system that will ensure there are fewer low paid people and no excuses for not taking on more work and not working full time, even for single parents.
    A no nonsense, no bullshit approach to early years education. Sure start was Labour's big idea in this area, but it like so much of New Labour doesn't achieve despite massive amount of money being spent. Working in this area requires some difficult decisions and not being knocked off course by some negative headlines.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I'm beginning to hope that Dave and Boris making amends will mean the Notting Hill set will get the band back together and depose May if she goes top far off the reservation.

    You do realise Dave has gone, don't you?
    Dave might be gone, but his friends are still there.
    Dave = Ned Stark
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    The Electoral Commission have confirmed that Diane James never officially became UKIP leader as there were ‘issues’ with the signing of the leadership form. Apparently she added “V.C.” to the signature which stands for “Vi coactus” or “under duress”. All this means that Nigel never left. He told the BBC today that he would stay on as interim leader joking “I keep trying to escape… and before I’m finally free they drag me back

    http://order-order.com/2016/10/05/nigel-farage-is-back-as-ukip-leader/
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    surbiton said:

    She is really boring.

    Boring will do quite nicely thank you against Trot unilateralists and friends of continuity IRA....
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    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    Theresa may not be Thatcher, but to be fair to her I'm not sure the public want Thatcher Mk 2 anyway.
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,718
    538 now showing Ohio for Clinton.
    http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/ohio/
    She now has 75% chance of winning.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125

    MaxPB said:

    I'm beginning to hope that Dave and Boris making amends will mean the Notting Hill set will get the band back together and depose May if she goes top far off the reservation.

    You do realise Dave has gone, don't you?
    The Provisional Wing of the Cameroon Continuity Army haven't gone away you know.
    Yeah, but they need to find a new leader.
    Cameron's Vicar on Earth is still in the Commons.
    ...but defrocked.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    surbiton said:

    She is really boring.

    That's a positive for many people.
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    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    IanB2 said:

    An end to QE should see a stock market wobble. So far it's just thinking about it...

    matt said:

    Does this mean that Hammond's autumn statement will have more tax cuts and incentives for business? Maybe even a rolliing back of red tape?

    Paul Waugh ✔ @paulwaugh
    Biggest big ticket item of all in May speech is clear hint she'll decommission the QE bazooka. Aides say AutumnStatement will signal change

    Is QE her decision? I can see where we are heading though re the Bank of England and there's a good quote from Ken Clarke's autobiography on the subject:

    Robin Leigh-Pemberton was a pleasant but not very forceful country gentleman who had been appointed by Margaret Thatcher for precisely those qualities: she had hoped to control him.
    Osborne authorised the use of QE, it was the BoEs decision when to use it. The question is whether she wants to stop any new QE or start reversing existing.

    The relatively soft slowdown the economy has seen so far suggests there might not need to be any additional QE anyway. However if government borrowing costs go up as a result of ending QE additional fiscal expansion becomes a problem.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    Did you read the previous post about the IMF warning about the solvency of pension companies? It's quite amusing to see that post followed by the one from the Adam Smith Institute!
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,150
    edited October 2016
    Alistair said:

    Interesting North Carolina factoid.

    At the start of Postal Voting unreturned postal votes by affiliation stood at 35% Rep, 37% Dem, 28% Independent

    By the 23rd Of September (1st Debate) unreturned postal votes were 35% Rep, 36% Dem, 29% Independent.

    As of yesterday it's: 41% Rep, 31% Dem, 28% Independent unreturned.

    Is that final "41% Rep" a typo or did the proportion of unreturned GOP votes somehow go up?

    Sorry, I get it
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Indigo said:

    A £12.50 NLW will definitely hit jobs, and all the rest are all spending items, some of them very expensive spending items, are they not, and the government is trying to cut spending.

    Eliminating housing benefits and tax credits would save £60bn, eliminating employer's NI will cost about the same, lowering corporation tax would cost about £8bn, the additional income taxes raised from higher earnings would cover the losses. The additional spending commitment would be transferrable tax allowances for stay at home parents and extending childcare provision, but I think overall the net effect would be close to zero. What it may do is cause wages in non protected areas to drag, so middle and higher income people might see a few years of real terms wage deflation as companies claw back their margins where they can.
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    538 now showing Ohio for Clinton.
    http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/ohio/
    She now has 75% chance of winning.

    49-1 ? What are the odds ?
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    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,812
    Alistair said:

    Interesting North Carolina factoid.

    At the start of Postal Voting unreturned postal votes by affiliation stood at 35% Rep, 37% Dem, 28% Independent

    By the 23rd Of September (1st Debate) unreturned postal votes were 35% Rep, 36% Dem, 29% Independent.

    As of yesterday it's: 41% Rep, 31% Dem, 28% Independent unreturned.

    Just getting my head around the wording here.

    I am right in understanding that between 23/9 and yesterday, a higher proportion of registered Democrat voters have returned their ballots than registered Republican voters, i.e. a differential (early) turnout that should favour the Democrats? Could there be other factors like rural / urban post speeds to consider?
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,003
    I'm confusled.

    Can the real May's Conservative Party please stand up?

    Which is it? the one we saw last night - the one which wants to reintroduce grammars and name-and-shame companies employing immigrants, or the more centrist one we saw today?

    I was hoping the conference would show us which direction she was heading, but it now seems she doesn't know herself.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. Surbiton, I didn't vote Conservative at the last local or European elections.

    'Everybody' would appear to be wrong, again.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205
    Jason said:

    Her best line was nailing Labour, though. The anti-Semitism that has been allowed to foster in Labour's ranks has been one of the most shameful episodes in British politics, so well done to May for calling it out on a very public stage.

    This.

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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,335
    I disagree with OGH on this - I felt the response to her speech was electric.

    And she is very much like Maggie IMHO, although too early to say if she'll match her success.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205
    SeanT said:

    AndyJS said:

    Let's have an election in 2017 and see whether people agree with Theresa May's vision for the country.

    Well, quite. I'm not a huge fan of Ms May, I don't like the leftier nanny state stuff, I'm wary of her on Hard Brexit, and concerned she will harm universities amongst other things. But she's clearly better than ANY alternative, apart from Ruth Davidson, heh, and what's even clearer is that all this stuff will be very popular Out There.

    She'd romp home to a huge victory, right now.
    I'm withholding judgment until we see what she does rather than what she says.

    Still, better her than Corbyn. Better her than Nasty Labour

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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    A Conservative Prime Minister who's a corporatist and whose premiership will be remembered for Europe? Truly Theresa May is the Ted Heath de nos jours.
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    What then is likely to happen?
    1. No more QE? Yes.
    2. No further cut in UK bank rate? Yes.
    3. An increase in bank rate? Possible.
    4. A stimulus package from Chancellor? Yes.

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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    SeanT said:

    AndyJS said:

    Let's have an election in 2017 and see whether people agree with Theresa May's vision for the country.

    Well, quite. I'm not a huge fan of Ms May, I don't like the leftier nanny state stuff, I'm wary of her on Hard Brexit, and concerned she will harm universities amongst other things. But she's clearly better than ANY alternative, apart from Ruth Davidson, heh, and what's even clearer is that all this stuff will be very popular Out There.

    She'd romp home to a huge victory, right now.
    I expect the result in Witney in 2 weeks time will be poor enough for the Conservatives that it ends all talk of an early GE .
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    A Conservative Prime Minister who's a corporatist and whose premiership will be remembered for Europe? Truly Theresa May is the Ted Heath de nos jours.

    Ted Heath was a truly great Tory PM.

    Took us into the European Community, took Middlesbrough out of Yorkshire, and with Thatcher's assistance helped to close or merge a record number of grammar schools.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Pro_Rata said:

    Alistair said:

    Interesting North Carolina factoid.

    At the start of Postal Voting unreturned postal votes by affiliation stood at 35% Rep, 37% Dem, 28% Independent

    By the 23rd Of September (1st Debate) unreturned postal votes were 35% Rep, 36% Dem, 29% Independent.

    As of yesterday it's: 41% Rep, 31% Dem, 28% Independent unreturned.

    Just getting my head around the wording here.

    I am right in understanding that between 23/9 and yesterday, a higher proportion of registered Democrat voters have returned their ballots than registered Republican voters, i.e. a differential (early) turnout that should favour the Democrats? Could there be other factors like rural / urban post speeds to consider?
    Ugh, yeah, my wording is awful.

    You are correct. Dems are posting back at a higher rate.
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    MaxPB said:

    Indigo said:

    A £12.50 NLW will definitely hit jobs, and all the rest are all spending items, some of them very expensive spending items, are they not, and the government is trying to cut spending.

    Eliminating housing benefits and tax credits would save £60bn, eliminating employer's NI will cost about the same, lowering corporation tax would cost about £8bn, the additional income taxes raised from higher earnings would cover the losses. The additional spending commitment would be transferrable tax allowances for stay at home parents and extending childcare provision, but I think overall the net effect would be close to zero. What it may do is cause wages in non protected areas to drag, so middle and higher income people might see a few years of real terms wage deflation as companies claw back their margins where they can.
    I may be not reading it right, where does the additional income taxes raised from higher earnings come from ?
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,993
    MaxPB said:

    Mrs May should be reminded that energy prices crashed about a year after Ed wanted to put his price freeze in place. If prices were frozen and people were tied into longer term contracts then everyone would have been paying over the odds for a couple of years. It was the free market that saw energy prices fall.

    To quote me: "the seeds of every oil price crash are sown in the previous boom".
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    The criticism of Mrs May from some on here who backed her over leadsom or the same people who backed Rudd over Johnson in the EU referendum debate do make me laugh.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    SeanT said:

    A Conservative Prime Minister who's a corporatist and whose premiership will be remembered for Europe? Truly Theresa May is the Ted Heath de nos jours.

    She's also quite close, in many ways, to John Major.
    John Major had a vision of the state as servant of its public. His much-mocked citizen's charter, complete with cones hotline, set the course of government engagement with the public for the next generation.

    Theresa May, on the other hand, seems to be a fan of big bossy government.
This discussion has been closed.