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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » YouGov has Clinton winning the debate by 47% to 42%

SystemSystem Posts: 11,683
edited October 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » YouGov has Clinton winning the debate by 47% to 42%

YouGov US post debate poll. Women Clinton by 50% to 38%Men Trump by 46% to 43% pic.twitter.com/kXQ638bA1I

Read the full story here


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  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897
    First!
  • Options
    GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191
    2nd like Trump!
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897
    As someone who didn't get up early enough, is this second episode of two monkeys throwing poo at each other worth watching, any more than the first episode was?
  • Options
    GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191
    edited October 2016
    Sandpit said:

    As someone who didn't get up early enough, is this second episode of two monkeys throwing poo at each other worth watching, any more than the first episode was?

    More of the same I would say, although Trump seemed even more alpha male. YouGov post debate says 47% Clinton v 42% Trump, with women thinking Clinton won by 50-38% and men thinking Trump won by 46-43%.
  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,150
    Sandpit said:

    As someone who didn't get up early enough, is this second episode of two monkeys throwing poo at each other worth watching, any more than the first episode was?

    It was basically the same as the first time only the monkeys were less charismatic, and one of them fucked a chair.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,676
    Sandpit said:

    As someone who didn't get up early enough, is this second episode of two monkeys throwing poo at each other worth watching, any more than the first episode was?

    No. It's 90 minutes of your life you won't get back.

    Memorable moments - Trump saying if he was President Hillary would be in jail, which rather circumvents the whole investigation/charging/trial/conviction bit of the Special Prosecutor he would also appoint......Trump referring to Hillary as 'she' throughout and Trump sniffing.

    As Iain Dale observed: Hillary's problem in this debate is that after 75 minutes I can't remember a damn thing she's said. Trump's problem is that I can...

    His verdict: Debate verdict? Loathsome Trump let off the hook by Hillary. He lives to fight another day. Which presumably is just what Hillary wanted
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    Obama should lock them both up. And everyone can pretend this didn't happen. I'm starting to like Putin's ideas now, the Donald is rubbing off on me. (Sorry for that picture).
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    The CNN poll is stacked with Democrats, no wonder they got that result.

    Just watching CNN now and it's incredibly bad tempered. They aren't sounding like Hillary won.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282
    Eighth like UKiP
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,676
    FPT:
    dugarbandier said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    dugarbandier said:

    moderators at no point said "Who's she, the cat's mother?" disappointing

    That struck me as well - is it as rude in America as it is in the UK?

    Although I don't think its the moderators role to police the incivility of candidates.

    It was also clearly a deliberate strategy - so strong on core vote, but may not appeal to female voters.

    Nate Silver on what happens if no women vote for Trump:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CeSbXNiWsAA4lhK.jpg:large
    Maybe it's not rude anywhere, anymore.
    I can't see Trump's mother (an economic migrant, lest we forget) putting up with it!
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    CarlottaVance said:

    Sandpit said:

    As someone who didn't get up early enough, is this second episode of two monkeys throwing poo at each other worth watching, any more than the first episode was?

    No. It's 90 minutes of your life you won't get back.

    Memorable moments - Trump saying if he was President Hillary would be in jail, which rather circumvents the whole investigation/charging/trial/conviction bit of the Special Prosecutor he would also appoint......Trump referring to Hillary as 'she' throughout and Trump sniffing.

    As Iain Dale observed: Hillary's problem in this debate is that after 75 minutes I can't remember a damn thing she's said. Trump's problem is that I can...

    His verdict: Debate verdict? Loathsome Trump let off the hook by Hillary. He lives to fight another day. Which presumably is just what Hillary wanted
    He actually said he'd ask the AG to look at the email issue - then quipped she'd be in jail later.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,676
    PlatoSaid said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Sandpit said:

    As someone who didn't get up early enough, is this second episode of two monkeys throwing poo at each other worth watching, any more than the first episode was?

    No. It's 90 minutes of your life you won't get back.

    Memorable moments - Trump saying if he was President Hillary would be in jail, which rather circumvents the whole investigation/charging/trial/conviction bit of the Special Prosecutor he would also appoint......Trump referring to Hillary as 'she' throughout and Trump sniffing.

    As Iain Dale observed: Hillary's problem in this debate is that after 75 minutes I can't remember a damn thing she's said. Trump's problem is that I can...

    His verdict: Debate verdict? Loathsome Trump let off the hook by Hillary. He lives to fight another day. Which presumably is just what Hillary wanted
    He actually said he'd ask the AG to look at the email issue - then quipped she'd be in jail later.
    I'm not sure a Presidential candidate gets to 'quip' over riding roughshod over due process.....
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282
    Trump seemed a bit more focused on calmly answering some of the questions, which is an improvement on the random bluster of the first debate.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    PlatoSaid said:

    The CNN poll is stacked with Democrats, no wonder they got that result.

    Just watching CNN now and it's incredibly bad tempered. They aren't sounding like Hillary won.

    As with the their first debate poll this ORC/CNN poll sample is linked to the demographic watching.
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    The yougov poll shows Trumps women problem, most objective people would say it was close with Trump just ahead, but the women say Clinton by a big 12% margin. Tapegate has damaged him badly with a group he was already struggling with and he made it worse with his " locker room" talk bs.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    National - YouGov

    Clinton 44 .. Trump 38

    https://today.yougov.com/news/2016/10/09/clinton-leads-six-points-trump-support-falls/
  • Options
    JennyFreemanJennyFreeman Posts: 488
    The biggest thing is that Trump is very much still fighting and how. His news conference beforehand was remarkable. We've seen this in him before but this was the most significant: he came out the corner having taken a knockdown in the previous round, throwing some punches which landed on her.

    The jail comment was a big moment. It's difficult to tell if it's defining in the way that 'there you go again' was but it's pretty big.

    'You'd be in jail' was an extraordinary moment.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    I think the Independents in YouGov is key

    Political Polling Numbers
    YouGov Poll
    Debate Winner Among Independents:

    Trump 51 (+15)
    Clinton 36

    https://t.co/KFnTgmyx69
  • Options
    Kevin_McCandlessKevin_McCandless Posts: 392
    nunu said:

    The yougov poll shows Trumps women problem, most objective people would say it was close with Trump just ahead, but the women say Clinton by a big 12% margin. Tapegate has damaged him badly with a group he was already struggling with and he made it worse with his " locker room" talk bs.

    It's Trump's fault. If only he spent more time mansplaining to those women about what locker room banter is, he would've got through.
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    So much for all the speculation about Pence leaving the ticket

    https://twitter.com/mike_pence/status/785310165327151104
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    PlatoSaid said:

    The CNN poll is amusing

    @CNN <---- MORE STACKED DECK POLL
    https://t.co/XcvHMCpri7</p&gt;

    Plato, just calm down. I am sure Trump is winning in Wyoming, still.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    PlatoSaid said:

    I think the Independents in YouGov is key

    Political Polling Numbers
    YouGov Poll
    Debate Winner Among Independents:

    Trump 51 (+15)
    Clinton 36

    https://t.co/KFnTgmyx69

    One thing we all make mistakes about. Just because someone wins or loses a debate makes very little difference overall. We have found that in elections after elections.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897
    CarlottaVance said:

    Sandpit said:

    As someone who didn't get up early enough, is this second episode of two monkeys throwing poo at each other worth watching, any more than the first episode was?

    No. It's 90 minutes of your life you won't get back.

    Memorable moments - Trump saying if he was President Hillary would be in jail, which rather circumvents the whole investigation/charging/trial/conviction bit of the Special Prosecutor he would also appoint......Trump referring to Hillary as 'she' throughout and Trump sniffing.

    As Iain Dale observed: Hillary's problem in this debate is that after 75 minutes I can't remember a damn thing she's said. Trump's problem is that I can...

    His verdict: Debate verdict? Loathsome Trump let off the hook by Hillary. He lives to fight another day. Which presumably is just what Hillary wanted
    Thanks for that succinct summmary, think i'll choose 90 minutes of life instead!

    Is it too late for them to just call the whole thing off and start again with two sensible candidates?
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    And another clue that Hillary probably didn't slam dunk that one

    Time
    A Hillary Clinton spokesman just told Donald Trump to 'Go F--k' himself https://t.co/KllSECrxJ0
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    PlatoSaid said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Sandpit said:

    As someone who didn't get up early enough, is this second episode of two monkeys throwing poo at each other worth watching, any more than the first episode was?

    No. It's 90 minutes of your life you won't get back.

    Memorable moments - Trump saying if he was President Hillary would be in jail, which rather circumvents the whole investigation/charging/trial/conviction bit of the Special Prosecutor he would also appoint......Trump referring to Hillary as 'she' throughout and Trump sniffing.

    As Iain Dale observed: Hillary's problem in this debate is that after 75 minutes I can't remember a damn thing she's said. Trump's problem is that I can...

    His verdict: Debate verdict? Loathsome Trump let off the hook by Hillary. He lives to fight another day. Which presumably is just what Hillary wanted
    He actually said he'd ask the AG to look at the email issue - then quipped she'd be in jail later.
    Would you support President H Clinton to ask the IR to hand over Trump's files or ask them to launch a special investigation.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    This is rather fun

    Call Me Mister
    Holy shit @CNN didn't anyone teach you propaganda 101 Don't broadcast yourselves giving people answers to "questions" ahead of time #debate https://t.co/YtPtLrrMSg
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    surbiton said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Sandpit said:

    As someone who didn't get up early enough, is this second episode of two monkeys throwing poo at each other worth watching, any more than the first episode was?

    No. It's 90 minutes of your life you won't get back.

    Memorable moments - Trump saying if he was President Hillary would be in jail, which rather circumvents the whole investigation/charging/trial/conviction bit of the Special Prosecutor he would also appoint......Trump referring to Hillary as 'she' throughout and Trump sniffing.

    As Iain Dale observed: Hillary's problem in this debate is that after 75 minutes I can't remember a damn thing she's said. Trump's problem is that I can...

    His verdict: Debate verdict? Loathsome Trump let off the hook by Hillary. He lives to fight another day. Which presumably is just what Hillary wanted
    He actually said he'd ask the AG to look at the email issue - then quipped she'd be in jail later.
    Would you support President H Clinton to ask the IR to hand over Trump's files or ask them to launch a special investigation.
    Hand over the files to who? Surely the IRS investigates tax issues?
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    Kevin_McCandless said:

    nunu said:

    The yougov poll shows Trumps women problem, most objective people would say it was close with Trump just ahead, but the women say Clinton by a big 12% margin. Tapegate has damaged him badly with a group he was already struggling with and he made it worse with his " locker room" talk bs.

    It's Trump's fault. If only he spent more time mansplaining to those women about what locker room banter is, he would've got through.
    If only he had stood behind Hillary like an axe murder more.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Oliver D'Arcy
    Hannity says Bill Clinton accusers will join him on his TV program tomorrow.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    WTF? Really?

    Huge scoop alert: Leaked Files Reveal RBS Systematically Crushed British Businesses For Profit https://t.co/0e2uZf8AA1
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    PlatoSaid said:

    WTF? Really?

    Huge scoop alert: Leaked Files Reveal RBS Systematically Crushed British Businesses For Profit https://t.co/0e2uZf8AA1

    I thought we already knew this?
  • Options
    Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632
    How the Mail has put it:

    Trump keeps his campaign alive with barnstorming comeback after confronting Hillary with four Clinton 'sex victims' at bitter second debate - and she FAILS to nail him for sleazy tape scandal

    TRUMPS GREAT ESCAPE

    Followed by an article making seed-oil accusations about Mr C.


    Telegraph. Tim Stanley: Donald Trump won the debate. He's a crazy candidate but Hillary Clinton is a poor one
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Mr @Sandpit - it was great TV. I'm going to watch it again.

    So many WTF moments.
  • Options
    Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632
    The Debate: How I see it:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8zf027VlA8
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited October 2016
    Regardless of the diverging scale of the Clinton win tonight, as noted by YouGov and ORC/CNN, the essential dynamic of the race remains the same. Trump is significantly behind and requires a series of game changers to reverse his decline.

    I remind PBers yet again :

    FOP - Florida .. Ohio .. Pennsylvania - Three must wins for Trump. Just the one for Clinton. The Donald trails in all three and is way adrift in Pennsylvania.

    If nothing else keep your eyes on FOP.
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/trump-s-pledge-jail-clinton-would-be-unprecedented-n663351
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Great front page

    The Sun
    Tomorrow's front page: Muslim extremist jailed for raising money for terrorist training camp is working as Sainsbury's delivery driver https://t.co/rYzO8h7Ib3
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,067
    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    The Debate: How I see it:

    Does that clip get reposted by you every time the cuckoo emerges?
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    For anyone interested

    http://news.sky.com/story/trolls-could-face-jail-under-new-legal-guidelines-10611929
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,718
    Gadfly said:

    Sandpit said:

    As someone who didn't get up early enough, is this second episode of two monkeys throwing poo at each other worth watching, any more than the first episode was?

    More of the same I would say, although Trump seemed even more alpha male. YouGov post debate says 47% Clinton v 42% Trump, with women thinking Clinton won by 50-38% and men thinking Trump won by 46-43%.
    53% of the US electorate are women.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,676
    Donald Trump's pledge Sunday night that he would order his attorney general to investigate Hillary Clinton, and his quip that she should "be in jail," is a direct breach of the tradition of nonpartisan rule of law.

    A president is not typically authorized to order specific criminal investigations of individuals, let alone a public pledge to investigate a political opponent.

    http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/trump-s-pledge-jail-clinton-would-be-unprecedented-n663351
  • Options
    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited October 2016
    Morning all.

    What a choice, a sleazy currupt barefaced lier and a comic book neaderthal with really bad hair. Whoever wins, America loses.
  • Options
    Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632
    surbiton said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    I think the Independents in YouGov is key

    Political Polling Numbers
    YouGov Poll
    Debate Winner Among Independents:

    Trump 51 (+15)
    Clinton 36

    https://t.co/KFnTgmyx69

    One thing we all make mistakes about. Just because someone wins or loses a debate makes very little difference overall. We have found that in elections after elections.
    Agreed. But the same applies to mainstream media outrage shitstorms - although you wouldnt think so from reading here.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282
    CarlottaVance said:

    Donald Trump's pledge Sunday night that he would order his attorney general to investigate Hillary Clinton, and his quip that she should "be in jail," is a direct breach of the tradition of nonpartisan rule of law.

    A president is not typically authorized to order specific criminal investigations of individuals, let alone a public pledge to investigate a political opponent.

    http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/trump-s-pledge-jail-clinton-would-be-unprecedented-n663351

    "Typically" ??
  • Options
    dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    SimonStClare said:

    Morning all.

    What a choice, a sleazy currupt barefaced lier and a comic book neaderthal with really bad hair. Whoever wins, America loses.

    a sleazy currupt barefaced lier and a comic book neaderthal with really bad hair who is also a sleazy currupt barefaced lier amid many other faults
  • Options
    Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632
    williamglenn said:

    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    The Debate: How I see it:

    Does that clip get reposted by you every time the cuckoo emerges?
    Cuckoo,

    To be honest, I was half expecting to wake up and discover Trump had lost it and done a Prescott.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,003
    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    surbiton said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    I think the Independents in YouGov is key

    Political Polling Numbers
    YouGov Poll
    Debate Winner Among Independents:

    Trump 51 (+15)
    Clinton 36

    https://t.co/KFnTgmyx69

    One thing we all make mistakes about. Just because someone wins or loses a debate makes very little difference overall. We have found that in elections after elections.
    Agreed. But the same applies to mainstream media outrage shitstorms - although you wouldnt think so from reading here.
    "mainstream media outrage shitstorms"

    LOL. Is that really what you're calling the reaction to Trump's comments?

    Do you see what he said as perfectly acceptable?
  • Options
    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    edited October 2016
    Mac on Tory plans for more doctors

    http://tinyurl.com/jy9yqob
  • Options
    Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632
    PlatoSaid said:

    I think the Independents in YouGov is key

    Political Polling Numbers
    YouGov Poll
    Debate Winner Among Independents:

    Trump 51 (+15)
    Clinton 36

    https://t.co/KFnTgmyx69

    Clucking bells.

    I have had a look at some other forums and have been quite shocked at the willingness in many quarters to pass off Trumps behavious as locker room banter, sort of thing young people of both sexes say and do etc etc.

    50 years of media crudity has had its effect. Mrs Whitehouse was right but even she probably never envisaged how it would even perculate to the debate for the white house.

    The other thing that comes out is how many women will excuse the behaviour and generally allow an alpha male to get away with blue murder to an extent a beta males feet wouldnt touch the ground. Something very uncomfortable that shows how thin the veneer of civilization is. We are three missed meals from Lord of the Flies.
  • Options
    Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632
    edited October 2016
    JosiasJessop said:

    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    surbiton said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    I think the Independents in YouGov is key

    Political Polling Numbers
    YouGov Poll
    Debate Winner Among Independents:

    Trump 51 (+15)
    Clinton 36

    https://t.co/KFnTgmyx69

    One thing we all make mistakes about. Just because someone wins or loses a debate makes very little difference overall. We have found that in elections after elections.
    Agreed. But the same applies to mainstream media outrage shitstorms - although you wouldnt think so from reading here.
    "mainstream media outrage shitstorms"

    LOL. Is that really what you're calling the reaction to Trump's comments?

    Do you see what he said as perfectly acceptable?
    No of course I dont. But it is a partisan shitstorm nonetheless. Also, unfortunately as I explain above an awful lot of people do seem to excuse such behaviour. Others care more about Hillary packing the supreme court making it Democrat for a generation.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,003
    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    surbiton said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    I think the Independents in YouGov is key

    Political Polling Numbers
    YouGov Poll
    Debate Winner Among Independents:

    Trump 51 (+15)
    Clinton 36

    https://t.co/KFnTgmyx69

    One thing we all make mistakes about. Just because someone wins or loses a debate makes very little difference overall. We have found that in elections after elections.
    Agreed. But the same applies to mainstream media outrage shitstorms - although you wouldnt think so from reading here.
    "mainstream media outrage shitstorms"

    LOL. Is that really what you're calling the reaction to Trump's comments?

    Do you see what he said as perfectly acceptable?
    No of course I dont. But it is a partisan shitstorm nonetheless. Also, unfortunately as I explain above an awful lot of people do seem to excuse such behaviour. Others care more about Hillary packing the supreme court making it Democrat for a generation.
    It's odd how your 'partisan shitstorm' has gathered in prominent republicans.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,676
    IanB2 said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Donald Trump's pledge Sunday night that he would order his attorney general to investigate Hillary Clinton, and his quip that she should "be in jail," is a direct breach of the tradition of nonpartisan rule of law.

    A president is not typically authorized to order specific criminal investigations of individuals, let alone a public pledge to investigate a political opponent.

    http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/trump-s-pledge-jail-clinton-would-be-unprecedented-n663351

    "Typically" ??
    Reading the rest of the article it appears the last time someone tried to interfere in due process - Nixon, to fire a Watergate Special Prosecutor - the Attorney General resigned. So I guess it could depend on who the Attorney General is.....
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,444
    I guess I'm going to have to do a thread about how Mitt Romney won the independents in 2012 and still lost.

    He won by 10% amongst independents in places like Ohio...
  • Options
    mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    JosiasJessop said:

    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    surbiton said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    I think the Independents in YouGov is key

    Political Polling Numbers
    YouGov Poll
    Debate Winner Among Independents:

    Trump 51 (+15)
    Clinton 36

    https://t.co/KFnTgmyx69

    One thing we all make mistakes about. Just because someone wins or loses a debate makes very little difference overall. We have found that in elections after elections.
    Agreed. But the same applies to mainstream media outrage shitstorms - although you wouldnt think so from reading here.
    "mainstream media outrage shitstorms"

    LOL. Is that really what you're calling the reaction to Trump's comments?

    Do you see what he said as perfectly acceptable?
    No of course I dont. But it is a partisan shitstorm nonetheless. Also, unfortunately as I explain above an awful lot of people do seem to excuse such behaviour. Others care more about Hillary packing the supreme court making it Democrat for a generation.
    It's odd how your 'partisan shitstorm' has gathered in prominent republicans.
    They're part of the elite and not to be trusted.
  • Options
    619619 Posts: 1,784
    https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/785364423519109120
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    I think the Independents in YouGov is key

    Political Polling Numbers
    YouGov Poll
    Debate Winner Among Independents:

    Trump 51 (+15)
    Clinton 36

    https://t.co/KFnTgmyx69

    Clucking bells.

    I have had a look at some other forums and have been quite shocked at the willingness in many quarters to pass off Trumps behavious as locker room banter, sort of thing young people of both sexes say and do etc etc.

    50 years of media crudity has had its effect. Mrs Whitehouse was right but even she probably never envisaged how it would even perculate to the debate for the white house.

    The other thing that comes out is how many women will excuse the behaviour and generally allow an alpha male to get away with blue murder to an extent a beta males feet wouldnt touch the ground. Something very uncomfortable that shows how thin the veneer of civilization is. We are three missed meals from Lord of the Flies.
    Such language was commonplace in my early 90s workplace - 90% sales men - it doesn't bother me much as it's braggart stuff - Sex in the City did the same with women. I rarely say such things myself.

    IIRC something like 80m copies of 50 Shades of Grey were sold - most of the 80s Mills & Boon stories were slightly politer versions of being grabbed by alpha male doctors and secretly keen nurses.

    I find the behaviour of many rappers etc or even now Miley Cyrus really crude and stupid, but it's everywhere nowadays in a very overt way. That 91% of Trump voters simply don't care - 2% thought more favourably on top shows that either you're unbothered like me, or simply have other stuff higher up your concerns.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850
    It's interesting that Yougov's debate poll almost exactly matches their voting intention poll.

    Interesting too that 53% say they would never vote Trump, while 47% say they would never vote Clinton. Can two candidates ever have been so disliked.

    And both Pence and Kaine are much better rated by the voters.
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    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    Frank Luntz Focus Group;
    Before Debate: Hillary 8 Trump 9
    After Debate : Hillary 4. Trump 18
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,150
    PlatoSaid said:

    it doesn't bother me much as it's braggart stuff - Sex in the City did the same with women.

    wtf
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,676
    Trump won the debate among the Republican base that has longed for a candidate who would stand up to the Clintons without fear of reprisal. The problem for Trump is that we know from polling that his base isn't nearly large enough to win an election. Republican pollster Neil Newhouse, who was the lead pollster for Mitt Romney's 2012 presidential campaign, put it best.Trump playing to his base. Reinforcing every voter who was already for him. 40% of the vote isn't going to be enough.


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/10/09/winners-and-losers-from-the-2nd-presidential-debate/?tid=pm_politics_pop_b
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    619619 Posts: 1,784
    Id say it was a score draw ( which isnt enough for trump). First half was terriblenfor Trump, he was ranting and raving and acting like a crazy person. His body language was horrific. second half he was much calmer and got some good lines out.

    Clinton was fine: She got out her stuff and looked a lot less crazy than Trump.

    The aftermath is more important than the debate itself in some ways. Trump has left himself very open to some stuff which may come back on him (Throwing Pence under the boss, Slagging off Bill Clinton, Saying the tape wasnt an example of sexual assault, Saying commander Khan would still be alive if he was president, saying he never said 'Check out the sex tape')

    I doubt he changed enough minds to reverse his losing position
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    619619 Posts: 1,784
    Oh, and addendhm to below, saying he would jail Clinton seems to be developing as a big, negative story for him, as it makes him seem like a dictator
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    Pence not replacing Trump then ?
    Must say I r dissapoint :(
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850
    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    I think the Independents in YouGov is key

    Political Polling Numbers
    YouGov Poll
    Debate Winner Among Independents:

    Trump 51 (+15)
    Clinton 36

    https://t.co/KFnTgmyx69

    Clucking bells.

    I have had a look at some other forums and have been quite shocked at the willingness in many quarters to pass off Trumps behavious as locker room banter, sort of thing young people of both sexes say and do etc etc.

    50 years of media crudity has had its effect. Mrs Whitehouse was right but even she probably never envisaged how it would even perculate to the debate for the white house.

    The other thing that comes out is how many women will excuse the behaviour and generally allow an alpha male to get away with blue murder to an extent a beta males feet wouldnt touch the ground. Something very uncomfortable that shows how thin the veneer of civilization is. We are three missed meals from Lord of the Flies.
    Mary Whitehouse tended to aim at the wrong targets (eg I Claudius).
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242
    Sean_F said:

    It's interesting that Yougov's debate poll almost exactly matches their voting intention poll.

    Interesting too that 53% say they would never vote Trump, while 47% say they would never vote Clinton. Can two candidates ever have been so disliked.

    And both Pence and Kaine are much better rated by the voters.

    Another big worry - quite apart from the fact that they are both manifestly unfit to hold public office - is that neither will be able to reach out to the others' supporters. That was the secret of Obama, Clinton and to a lesser extent Reagan - they were able to partially bridge that divide, which is why they had high approval ratings, higher than their voting share. Of course, they didn't actually do much in terms of policy, which may have helped, but the effort was made.

    But can you really see anyone who hates Clinton enough to vote for Trump being willing to listen to her? America looks set to be as badly divided as it was in the 1960s, when many feared it was becoming ungovernable.

    Whoever wins this election, the American system of democracy has clearly lost - in one party because they stitched up the nomination for a wholly unsuitable candidate, and in one party because they failed to stitch up the nomination to stop one. A radical rethink of the whole process is urgently needed.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,444
    Pulpstar said:

    Pence not replacing Trump then ?
    Must say I r dissapoint :(

    Me too. On the flip side, Trump staying makes Hillary winning Texas more likely.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242
    619 said:

    Id say it was a score draw ( which isnt enough for trump). ...I doubt he changed enough minds to reverse his losing position

    I would certainly agree with that. Trump shouldn't be ruled out yet but he's clearly second favourite. To win, he needs something very dramatic to happen to change things around. Threatening to imprison his opponent isn't going to be it.

    Before anyone brings up Nixon vs Kennedy, that race was a lot closer than this one. I just don't see how these debates will shift enough votes to be decisive.
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    FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    PlatoSaid said:

    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    I think the Independents in YouGov is key

    Political Polling Numbers
    YouGov Poll
    Debate Winner Among Independents:

    Trump 51 (+15)
    Clinton 36

    https://t.co/KFnTgmyx69

    Clucking bells.

    I have had a look at some other forums and have been quite shocked at the willingness in many quarters to pass off Trumps behavious as locker room banter, sort of thing young people of both sexes say and do etc etc.

    50 years of media crudity has had its effect. Mrs Whitehouse was right but even she probably never envisaged how it would even perculate to the debate for the white house.

    The other thing that comes out is how many women will excuse the behaviour and generally allow an alpha male to get away with blue murder to an extent a beta males feet wouldnt touch the ground. Something very uncomfortable that shows how thin the veneer of civilization is. We are three missed meals from Lord of the Flies.
    Such language was commonplace in my early 90s workplace - 90% sales men - it doesn't bother me much as it's braggart stuff - Sex in the City did the same with women. I rarely say such things myself.

    IIRC something like 80m copies of 50 Shades of Grey were sold - most of the 80s Mills & Boon stories were slightly politer versions of being grabbed by alpha male doctors and secretly keen nurses.

    I find the behaviour of many rappers etc or even now Miley Cyrus really crude and stupid, but it's everywhere nowadays in a very overt way. That 91% of Trump voters simply don't care - 2% thought more favourably on top shows that either you're unbothered like me, or simply have other stuff higher up your concerns.
    Black men have been shot for less
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    TonyETonyE Posts: 938
    CarlottaVance said:

    Trump won the debate among the Republican base that has longed for a candidate who would stand up to the Clintons without fear of reprisal. The problem for Trump is that we know from polling that his base isn't nearly large enough to win an election. Republican pollster Neil Newhouse, who was the lead pollster for Mitt Romney's 2012 presidential campaign, put it best.Trump playing to his base. Reinforcing every voter who was already for him. 40% of the vote isn't going to be enough.


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/10/09/winners-and-losers-from-the-2nd-presidential-debate/?tid=pm_politics_pop_b

    I think they might be missing a big point - Obamacare. Trump pledging to scrap it v Clinton cementing it in permanently with the aid of the Supreme Court.

    A lot of of normally self sufficient folks have been fleeced by Obamacare, especially small business and the self employed. I think that's going to be one of the biggest issues as we close in to the final straight
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,306
    Having skimmed through the comments this morning I am glad I went to bed. Two truly terrible candidates each unfit to hold office in different ways and both incapable of coming up with one memorable line between them.

    The process is just not working.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pence not replacing Trump then ?
    Must say I r dissapoint :(

    Me too. On the flip side, Trump staying makes Hillary winning Texas more likely.
    Mr Eagles, please, there are times when the good of the planet trumps (no pun intended) the importance of your book. With Pence vs Kaine we'd have a guarantee of a more or less sane and sensible candidate winning. With Clinton and Trump we have a near guarantee that won't happen. Your bet on Texas coming up palls a bit by comparison.
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    619619 Posts: 1,784
    ydoethur said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pence not replacing Trump then ?
    Must say I r dissapoint :(

    Me too. On the flip side, Trump staying makes Hillary winning Texas more likely.
    Mr Eagles, please, there are times when the good of the planet trumps (no pun intended) the importance of your book. With Pence vs Kaine we'd have a guarantee of a more or less sane and sensible candidate winning. With Clinton and Trump we have a near guarantee that won't happen. Your bet on Texas coming up palls a bit by comparison.
    clinton isnt insane. She may not be your cup of tea, but she isnt crazy
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850
    DavidL said:

    Having skimmed through the comments this morning I am glad I went to bed. Two truly terrible candidates each unfit to hold office in different ways and both incapable of coming up with one memorable line between them.

    The process is just not working.

    But, as one poster noted, watching monkeys hurling shit at each other can be amusing.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    How long before the next Trump tape comes out, do we think? And how will it cap confessions of sexual assault and baselining 12 year olds as minimally acceptable sexual partners?
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,676
    DavidL said:

    incapable of coming up with one memorable line between them.

    I think Trump has had a couple - in the first debate 'That's smart' about not paying tax and 'You'd be in jail' about his opponent in this one,,,,
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    dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Having skimmed through the comments this morning I am glad I went to bed. Two truly terrible candidates each unfit to hold office in different ways and both incapable of coming up with one memorable line between them.

    The process is just not working.

    But, as one poster noted, watching monkeys hurling shit at each other can be amusing.
    with that added appeal that in this case, we can never rule out one of the monkeys beginning to pleasure himself in public
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    Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632
    What this is all showing is how thin and weak the line between civilization and head chopping, homosexual throwing off buildings anarchy actually is.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @BBCNormanS: Team Corbyn say Labour leader backs a Commons vote on Brexit deal
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750
    JosiasJessop said:

    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    surbiton said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    I think the Independents in YouGov is key

    Political Polling Numbers
    YouGov Poll
    Debate Winner Among Independents:

    Trump 51 (+15)
    Clinton 36

    https://t.co/KFnTgmyx69

    One thing we all make mistakes about. Just because someone wins or loses a debate makes very little difference overall. We have found that in elections after elections.
    Agreed. But the same applies to mainstream media outrage shitstorms - although you wouldnt think so from reading here.
    "mainstream media outrage shitstorms"

    LOL. Is that really what you're calling the reaction to Trump's comments?

    Do you see what he said as perfectly acceptable?
    No of course I dont. But it is a partisan shitstorm nonetheless. Also, unfortunately as I explain above an awful lot of people do seem to excuse such behaviour. Others care more about Hillary packing the supreme court making it Democrat for a generation.
    It's odd how your 'partisan shitstorm' has gathered in prominent republicans.
    Details details. Like how only tories attack Corbyn despite all those people we think are labour doing it.

    At some point, I have trouble accepting people do not find certain things, well, acceptable, when they seem to criticise any, er, criticism of it as unreasonable.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    What this is all showing is how thin and weak the line between civilization and head chopping, homosexual throwing off buildings anarchy actually is.

    The price of civilisation is eternal vigilance. The civilised in Britain fell asleep this summer. Will civilised Americans?
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    Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632
    619 said:

    ydoethur said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pence not replacing Trump then ?
    Must say I r dissapoint :(

    Me too. On the flip side, Trump staying makes Hillary winning Texas more likely.
    Mr Eagles, please, there are times when the good of the planet trumps (no pun intended) the importance of your book. With Pence vs Kaine we'd have a guarantee of a more or less sane and sensible candidate winning. With Clinton and Trump we have a near guarantee that won't happen. Your bet on Texas coming up palls a bit by comparison.
    clinton isnt insane. She may not be your cup of tea, but she isnt crazy
    That makes her more dangerous. Trump is a bit crazy so wont be able to carry Congress.
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    surbiton said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    I think the Independents in YouGov is key

    Political Polling Numbers
    YouGov Poll
    Debate Winner Among Independents:

    Trump 51 (+15)
    Clinton 36

    https://t.co/KFnTgmyx69

    One thing we all make mistakes about. Just because someone wins or loses a debate makes very little difference overall. We have found that in elections after elections.
    Today we learned that Trump is just a male Carrie Bradshaw.

    Only from the PB Morning Shift.

    Only on PB.
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Lots of shy pensioners in the US Yougov.
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    Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632
    AlastairMeeks said:

    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    What this is all showing is how thin and weak the line between civilization and head chopping, homosexual throwing off buildings anarchy actually is.

    The price of civilisation is eternal vigilance. The civilised in Britain fell asleep this summer. Will civilised Americans?
    I don't know but it is going to be a damned close run thing.

    All this is starting to bring out the Liberal in me.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: my post-race analysis of Japan, and what the result means for the title, is up here:
    http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2016/10/japan-post-race-analysis-2016.html
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    619619 Posts: 1,784
    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    619 said:

    ydoethur said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pence not replacing Trump then ?
    Must say I r dissapoint :(

    Me too. On the flip side, Trump staying makes Hillary winning Texas more likely.
    Mr Eagles, please, there are times when the good of the planet trumps (no pun intended) the importance of your book. With Pence vs Kaine we'd have a guarantee of a more or less sane and sensible candidate winning. With Clinton and Trump we have a near guarantee that won't happen. Your bet on Texas coming up palls a bit by comparison.
    clinton isnt insane. She may not be your cup of tea, but she isnt crazy
    That makes her more dangerous. Trump is a bit crazy so wont be able to carry Congress.
    thats a strong assumption that the GOP might have a spine
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850
    AlastairMeeks said:

    How long before the next Trump tape comes out, do we think? And how will it cap confessions of sexual assault and baselining 12 year olds as minimally acceptable sexual partners?

    It's hard to know where you go after that.
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    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    AlastairMeeks said:

    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    What this is all showing is how thin and weak the line between civilization and head chopping, homosexual throwing off buildings anarchy actually is.

    The price of civilisation is eternal vigilance. The civilised in Britain fell asleep this summer. Will civilised Americans?
    Are you still crying about a democratic decision going against you? Not terribly civilised.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850
    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    What this is all showing is how thin and weak the line between civilization and head chopping, homosexual throwing off buildings anarchy actually is.

    The price of civilisation is eternal vigilance. The civilised in Britain fell asleep this summer. Will civilised Americans?
    I don't know but it is going to be a damned close run thing.

    All this is starting to bring out the Liberal in me.
    The US reminds me of Anthony Beevor's description of Spain in early 1936.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    AlastairMeeks said:

    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    What this is all showing is how thin and weak the line between civilization and head chopping, homosexual throwing off buildings anarchy actually is.

    The price of civilisation is eternal vigilance. The civilised in Britain fell asleep this summer. Will civilised Americans?
    Yes, only the uncivilized could have voted Leave.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    Jobabob said:

    surbiton said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    I think the Independents in YouGov is key

    Political Polling Numbers
    YouGov Poll
    Debate Winner Among Independents:

    Trump 51 (+15)
    Clinton 36

    https://t.co/KFnTgmyx69

    One thing we all make mistakes about. Just because someone wins or loses a debate makes very little difference overall. We have found that in elections after elections.
    Today we learned that Trump is just a male Carrie Bradshaw.

    Only from the PB Morning Shift.

    Only on PB.
    Only from one certain poster.
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    dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    Sean_F said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    How long before the next Trump tape comes out, do we think? And how will it cap confessions of sexual assault and baselining 12 year olds as minimally acceptable sexual partners?

    It's hard to know where you go after that.
    I guess one thing that might damage him would be if he was caught denigrating his own supporters? As the man himself mentioned a while back, he could confess to murder and not damage his support with the base
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    AlastairMeeks said:

    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    What this is all showing is how thin and weak the line between civilization and head chopping, homosexual throwing off buildings anarchy actually is.

    The price of civilisation is eternal vigilance. The civilised in Britain fell asleep this summer. Will civilised Americans?
    Anyone who votes Meeks's way = civilised
    Anyone who votes against Meeks's wishes = savage or barbarian

    Such is the thoughts and beliefs of one Alastair Meeks.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Jobabob said:

    surbiton said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    I think the Independents in YouGov is key

    Political Polling Numbers
    YouGov Poll
    Debate Winner Among Independents:

    Trump 51 (+15)
    Clinton 36

    https://t.co/KFnTgmyx69

    One thing we all make mistakes about. Just because someone wins or loses a debate makes very little difference overall. We have found that in elections after elections.
    Today we learned that Trump is just a male Carrie Bradshaw.

    Only from the PB Morning Shift.

    Only on PB.
    "Lets Make America Grope Again!"
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    MikeK said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    What this is all showing is how thin and weak the line between civilization and head chopping, homosexual throwing off buildings anarchy actually is.

    The price of civilisation is eternal vigilance. The civilised in Britain fell asleep this summer. Will civilised Americans?
    Anyone who votes Meeks's way = civilised
    Anyone who votes against Meeks's wishes = savage or barbarian

    Such is the thoughts and beliefs of one Alastair Meeks.
    To be fair - he is right!

    :-)
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,003
    ThreeQuidder said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    What this is all showing is how thin and weak the line between civilization and head chopping, homosexual throwing off buildings anarchy actually is.

    The price of civilisation is eternal vigilance. The civilised in Britain fell asleep this summer. Will civilised Americans?
    Are you still crying about a democratic decision going against you? Not terribly civilised.
    To be fair, many leavers on here were crying about a democratic decision going against them *before* the vote. :)
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    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    RobD said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    What this is all showing is how thin and weak the line between civilization and head chopping, homosexual throwing off buildings anarchy actually is.

    The price of civilisation is eternal vigilance. The civilised in Britain fell asleep this summer. Will civilised Americans?
    Yes, only the uncivilized could have voted Leave.
    It's a nonsense argument, anyway. Turnout wasn't exactly low.
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    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    AlastairMeeks said:

    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    What this is all showing is how thin and weak the line between civilization and head chopping, homosexual throwing off buildings anarchy actually is.

    The price of civilisation is eternal vigilance. The civilised in Britain fell asleep this summer. Will civilised Americans?
    Shouldn't that be " the price of liberty is eternal vigilance " ? Liberty from an unelected bureaucracy for instance.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    RobD said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    What this is all showing is how thin and weak the line between civilization and head chopping, homosexual throwing off buildings anarchy actually is.

    The price of civilisation is eternal vigilance. The civilised in Britain fell asleep this summer. Will civilised Americans?
    Yes, only the uncivilized could have voted Leave.
    I was asked in my interview at Oxford when I thought civilization began. I said 1888. My tutor to be asked, why then? I said that's when the Football League was founded.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,150
    Sean_F said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    How long before the next Trump tape comes out, do we think? And how will it cap confessions of sexual assault and baselining 12 year olds as minimally acceptable sexual partners?

    It's hard to know where you go after that.
    Racism. About black people, using the word "nigger", on tape.
This discussion has been closed.