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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Clinton price moves to a record high on Betfair

SystemSystem Posts: 11,682
edited October 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Clinton price moves to a record high on Betfair

I’m currently in the red on the next president market. I moved into Trump in late July, saw a big increase in his price, and then failed to cash in before the first debate which, of course, changed the whole narrative.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,942
    First, like leave.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    Second, like remain!
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    William_HWilliam_H Posts: 346
    edited October 2016
    3rd, like don't know
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Fourth like Wenceslas.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,065
    4th, like the firth.
  • Options
    But Paul Ryan has already called the election for Clinton, that would explain it.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    There's another new thread??
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,065
    RobD said:

    There's another new thread??

    You're having visions again.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    RobD said:

    There's another new thread??

    Just got deleted (not before I snuck in a first, of course!)
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,065
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    There's another new thread??

    Just got deleted (not before I snuck in a first, of course!)
    And talking to yourself too...
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    There's another new thread??

    Just got deleted (not before I snuck in a first, of course!)
    And talking to yourself too...
    You too can join me on the deleted thread...

    http://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/discussion/4175/politicalbetting-com-page-not-found#latest

    :D
  • Options
    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Apologies

    I accidentally published the draft of a post I was deleting
  • Options
    Mr Glenn, the worst case scenario isn't WTO tariffs, it is a permanent slump from which we take decades to recover from.

    The loss of inward investment is the real kicker during this period of uncertainty
  • Options

    Apologies

    I accidentally published the draft of a post I was deleting

    Happens to the very best of us.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    Mr Glenn, the worst case scenario isn't WTO tariffs, it is a permanent slump from which we take decades to recover from.

    The loss of inward investment is the real kicker during this period of uncertainty

    It's basically saying GDP growth will be at most 0.6% lower per year, with a central estimate of 0.5%. I think both of those assumes no deal with the EU?
  • Options
    619619 Posts: 1,784
    At this stage, being president is out of Trump's hands imo. The majority of the country hate him amd he is in open warfare with the GOP. Unless Clinton makes a horrendous mistake, its an open goal for her.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,942

    Apologies

    I accidentally published the draft of a post I was deleting

    Happens to the very best of us.
    Did forex markets move this time?!?
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,302
    A close election in the US is one of the most exciting things in politics. This is not going to be that.

    My only bet on this is for Trump placed long before he got the republican nomination. Looked pretty good for a while but an all but certain loser now. And thank the lord for that.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,065
    619 said:

    Unless Clinton makes a horrendous mistake, its an open goal for her.

    And if she makes a horrendous mistake, it's an open gaol for her.
  • Options
    Anyone else think the pussygate video was merely an appetising hors d'oeuvre before the main course?
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    The heir to Putin


    Sopan Deb Verified account
    @SopanDeb

    In Ambridge, Trump warns of voter fraud again - urges his supporters to "watch other communities."
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    619 said:

    Unless Clinton makes a horrendous mistake, its an open goal for her.

    And if she makes a horrendous mistake, it's an open gaol for her.
    Very adroit.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    619 said:

    Unless Clinton makes a horrendous mistake, its an open goal for her.

    And if she makes a horrendous mistake, it's an open gaol for her.
    Is being a bit casual, or even deliberately obscuring with emails a jailing offence?

    At most barring from public office, I would have thought.

  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,065
    edited October 2016
    Trump live from Pennsylvania.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYh66_KweOg
  • Options
    Mortimer said:

    Apologies

    I accidentally published the draft of a post I was deleting

    Happens to the very best of us.
    Did forex markets move this time?!?
    Why do you think I edit PB on Sundays when the markets are closed?
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    619 said:

    Unless Clinton makes a horrendous mistake, its an open goal for her.

    And if she makes a horrendous mistake, it's an open gaol for her.
    Is being a bit casual, or even deliberately obscuring with emails a jailing offence?

    At most barring from public office, I would have thought.

    Wouldn't get her in jail, but I'm surprised no one has been put out to dry for destroying the emails after the subpoena from Congress.
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    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956

    619 said:

    Unless Clinton makes a horrendous mistake, its an open goal for her.

    And if she makes a horrendous mistake, it's an open gaol for her.
    Bravo.
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    Dan Merica ‏@danmericaCNN 10m10 minutes ago

    Dan Merica Retweeted Marc E. Elias

    Clinton campaign lawyer says the Florida Federal Court has extended voter registration to Wednesday at 5p due to Hurricane Matthew.

    No idea what 5p means tho.
  • Options
    Scott_P said:
    I smell an Osborne...and not talking about Ozzie.
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Anyone else think the pussygate video was merely an appetising hors d'oeuvre before the main course?

    We've already been told that there are worse videos by someone who was in a position to know. Though it's hard to imagine how a video could be worse unless it went beyond words and into action.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    nunu said:

    Dan Merica ‏@danmericaCNN 10m10 minutes ago

    Dan Merica Retweeted Marc E. Elias

    Clinton campaign lawyer says the Florida Federal Court has extended voter registration to Wednesday at 5p due to Hurricane Matthew.

    No idea what 5p means tho.

    5pm?
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited October 2016
    New poll from CBS putting Clinton 14 points ahead nationally.
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    AndyJS said:

    Two new polls putting Clinton 11 and 14 points ahead nationally.

    Going to be close then...in Idaho....
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    AndyJS said:

    Two new polls putting Clinton 11 and 14 points ahead nationally.

    Going to be close then...in Idaho....
    I'm glad I backed the Dems to win Texas and Utah.
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Donald Trump's main chance now is that the polls are wrong. The behaviour of Republican luminaries suggests that they are confident that they are not.

    The chances of the polls being wrong must be rather greater than usual because of the novel coalition that Donald Trump has put together. But ultimately I trust the Republican party establishment's judgement on this.
  • Options
    nunu said:

    The heir to Putin


    Sopan Deb Verified account
    @SopanDeb

    In Ambridge, Trump warns of voter fraud again - urges his supporters to "watch other communities."

    Ambridge?
    Is it those sneaky buggers from Waterley Cross again?
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,772

    Anyone else think the pussygate video was merely an appetising hors d'oeuvre before the main course?

    Honestly? I'm sick of it. Trump has the ethics of a pimp (and not the funny film versions) and paws his daughter in public. Clinton's husband may be a rapist. How the frak do we get some kind of nobility from this?
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,817
    It's over for The Donald...
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    RobD said:

    619 said:

    Unless Clinton makes a horrendous mistake, its an open goal for her.

    And if she makes a horrendous mistake, it's an open gaol for her.
    Is being a bit casual, or even deliberately obscuring with emails a jailing offence?

    At most barring from public office, I would have thought.

    Wouldn't get her in jail, but I'm surprised no one has been put out to dry for destroying the emails after the subpoena from Congress.
    How much down ticket Republican damage would there have to be for the Democrats to take the Senate? The HoR must surely be out of reach.

    I cannot see much value on Trump, even on the current 5.7. I cannot see a viable way for him to win FOP. I think the value has mostly gone on the State markets too.
  • Options
    619619 Posts: 1,784
    viewcode said:

    Anyone else think the pussygate video was merely an appetising hors d'oeuvre before the main course?

    Honestly? I'm sick of it. Trump has the ethics of a pimp (and not the funny film versions) and paws his daughter in public. Clinton's husband may be a rapist. How the frak do we get some kind of nobility from this?
    aside from he said/she said, there is no evidence of clinton being a rapist. Its a 90's right wing fantasy
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    619 said:

    viewcode said:

    Anyone else think the pussygate video was merely an appetising hors d'oeuvre before the main course?

    Honestly? I'm sick of it. Trump has the ethics of a pimp (and not the funny film versions) and paws his daughter in public. Clinton's husband may be a rapist. How the frak do we get some kind of nobility from this?
    aside from he said/she said, there is no evidence of clinton being a rapist. Its a 90's right wing fantasy
    Doesn't the same go for Trump's supposed sexual assault? It was just words, but you seem to think it was a confession.
  • Options
    619619 Posts: 1,784

    Donald Trump's main chance now is that the polls are wrong. The behaviour of Republican luminaries suggests that they are confident that they are not.

    The chances of the polls being wrong must be rather greater than usual because of the novel coalition that Donald Trump has put together. But ultimately I trust the Republican party establishment's judgement on this.

    they would have to wrong across several polling companies by a ridiculous amount. If they are this wrong, all the polling companies might as well close their doors and never poll again
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,332
    edited October 2016
    Scott_P said:
    Ah, so it's nonsense then - designed to make the public think there'll be an instant £66bn black hole in the public finances on Brexit whereas actually they are saying the economy wouldn't be as big as it otherwise might have been in 15 years time, and it is relying on an assumption of no trade deals with anyone to do so plus some other heroically negative assumptions.

    I absolutely smell an Osborne. Those who campaigned to Remain are now campaigning just as hard for the single market as a proxy.
  • Options
    619619 Posts: 1,784

    Anyone else think the pussygate video was merely an appetising hors d'oeuvre before the main course?

    We've already been told that there are worse videos by someone who was in a position to know. Though it's hard to imagine how a video could be worse unless it went beyond words and into action.
    its him using the N word.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    Scott_P said:
    Ah, so it's nonsense then - designed to make the public think there'll be an instant £66bn black hole in the public finances on Brexit whereas actually they are saying the economy wouldn't be as big as it otherwise might have been in 15 years time, and it is relying on an assumption of no trade deals with anyone to do so plus some other heroically negative assumptions.

    I absolutely smell an Osborne. Those who campaigned to Remain are now campaigning just as hard for the single market as a proxy.
    The Times article said he was involved with it, and it dates from April.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    619 said:

    Anyone else think the pussygate video was merely an appetising hors d'oeuvre before the main course?

    We've already been told that there are worse videos by someone who was in a position to know. Though it's hard to imagine how a video could be worse unless it went beyond words and into action.
    its him using the N word.
    I guess we won't know if they don't get published. But that isn't important. What is important is that people think he said it.
  • Options
    619619 Posts: 1,784
    RobD said:

    619 said:

    viewcode said:

    Anyone else think the pussygate video was merely an appetising hors d'oeuvre before the main course?

    Honestly? I'm sick of it. Trump has the ethics of a pimp (and not the funny film versions) and paws his daughter in public. Clinton's husband may be a rapist. How the frak do we get some kind of nobility from this?
    aside from he said/she said, there is no evidence of clinton being a rapist. Its a 90's right wing fantasy
    Doesn't the same go for Trump's supposed sexual assault? It was just words, but you seem to think it was a confession.
    clearly someone boasting about sexual assault is stronger evidence.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    I thought that fact check image from a few threads ago was bogus, turns out it wasn't:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37603685

    'Acid-washed emails'
    Claim: Donald Trump claims Hillary Clinton "acid washed" 33,000 personal emails to delete them, something he said was an "expensive process".
    Reality Check verdict: A claim that has been debunked before. The FBI said Clinton's team used a free software programme called BleachBit. No chemicals were used. When he first made this claim, Trump's campaign said that he did not literally mean "acid washed", adding that it was a play on words and reference to a joke made by Clinton about "wiping" her email server with a cloth. BleachBit debunked Trump's claim on its website saying the software is not "very expensive," adding that it is completely free of charge.


    No chemicals were used... you have to laugh :D
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282
    FPT

    Right now I suggest that the key question is not remain v leave, or hard v soft Brexit.

    The most relevant Q is whether we think the government now has at least the outline of an agreed strategy and common approach in place, with the key players more or less on the same page, and is simply doing its best to protect our negotiating position by endeavouring to keep the decisions behind closed doors. And, further, that much of the comment and consequential analysis that is being made might well be clever conditioning in advance of A50 and the formal discussions.

    Or, on the other hand, whether we think that the government is still basically clueless and playing things by ear, that the key players have their own agendas with May struggling to keep them in line, that there is a tussle going on mainly inside the Tory party between hard and soft, and a certain amount of fear of those outside the party backing each position (basically UKIP on the one hand and big business on the other).

    Whilst the debate here indicates that most remainers lean toward the more pessimistic second view and most leavers towards the optimistic former, it is of course perfectly possible to be a leaver who doesn't think the government is handling it well or has yet got its act together, or a Remainer who believes that May mostly knows what she is doing.

    Personally I would have expected to see a bit more common purpose from the top Tories before I bought into the first view. Unfortunately egos are often problematic in politics and the very long-lasting nature of the divisions within the Conservatives together with the suddenness with which we found ourselves in uncharted waters, coupled with experience that clued up politicians with agreed strategies are relatively uncommon, suggests to me that the government probably has a lot more work still to do before we get to March and A50. Plus there are lots of loose ends (Scotland, N Ireland and the border, Gibralter, the legal cases, etc.) still unresolved.

  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    Apologies

    I accidentally published the draft of a post I was deleting

    Watch out you don't do a Weiner!
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    619 said:

    RobD said:

    619 said:

    viewcode said:

    Anyone else think the pussygate video was merely an appetising hors d'oeuvre before the main course?

    Honestly? I'm sick of it. Trump has the ethics of a pimp (and not the funny film versions) and paws his daughter in public. Clinton's husband may be a rapist. How the frak do we get some kind of nobility from this?
    aside from he said/she said, there is no evidence of clinton being a rapist. Its a 90's right wing fantasy
    Doesn't the same go for Trump's supposed sexual assault? It was just words, but you seem to think it was a confession.
    clearly someone boasting about sexual assault is stronger evidence.
    It wouldn't stand up in a court of law...
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850

    RobD said:

    619 said:

    Unless Clinton makes a horrendous mistake, its an open goal for her.

    And if she makes a horrendous mistake, it's an open gaol for her.
    Is being a bit casual, or even deliberately obscuring with emails a jailing offence?

    At most barring from public office, I would have thought.

    Wouldn't get her in jail, but I'm surprised no one has been put out to dry for destroying the emails after the subpoena from Congress.
    How much down ticket Republican damage would there have to be for the Democrats to take the Senate? The HoR must surely be out of reach.

    I cannot see much value on Trump, even on the current 5.7. I cannot see a viable way for him to win FOP. I think the value has mostly gone on the State markets too.
    Not much. The last four Senate results have been very lop- sided, meaning that each party runs the risk of hefty losses, if a good year, six years ago, runs into a bad year, or even an average year, in the current election.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,065
    RobD said:

    I thought that fact check image from a few threads ago was bogus, turns out it wasn't:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37603685

    'Acid-washed emails'
    Claim: Donald Trump claims Hillary Clinton "acid washed" 33,000 personal emails to delete them, something he said was an "expensive process".
    Reality Check verdict: A claim that has been debunked before. The FBI said Clinton's team used a free software programme called BleachBit. No chemicals were used. When he first made this claim, Trump's campaign said that he did not literally mean "acid washed", adding that it was a play on words and reference to a joke made by Clinton about "wiping" her email server with a cloth. BleachBit debunked Trump's claim on its website saying the software is not "very expensive," adding that it is completely free of charge.


    No chemicals were used... you have to laugh :D

    Not 'very expensive'. And I suppose Clinton's IT staff worked for free too?
  • Options
    OGH and premature posting....have we checked the markets?
  • Options
    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,989

    RobD said:

    619 said:

    Unless Clinton makes a horrendous mistake, its an open goal for her.

    And if she makes a horrendous mistake, it's an open gaol for her.
    Is being a bit casual, or even deliberately obscuring with emails a jailing offence?

    At most barring from public office, I would have thought.

    Wouldn't get her in jail, but I'm surprised no one has been put out to dry for destroying the emails after the subpoena from Congress.
    How much down ticket Republican damage would there have to be for the Democrats to take the Senate? The HoR must surely be out of reach.

    I cannot see much value on Trump, even on the current 5.7. I cannot see a viable way for him to win FOP. I think the value has mostly gone on the State markets too.
    According to 538, there is a 58% chance that the Democrats will control the Senate (even if it by the casting vote of the VP)

    http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/senate/?ex_cid=2016-forecast
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    RobD said:

    I thought that fact check image from a few threads ago was bogus, turns out it wasn't:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37603685

    'Acid-washed emails'
    Claim: Donald Trump claims Hillary Clinton "acid washed" 33,000 personal emails to delete them, something he said was an "expensive process".
    Reality Check verdict: A claim that has been debunked before. The FBI said Clinton's team used a free software programme called BleachBit. No chemicals were used. When he first made this claim, Trump's campaign said that he did not literally mean "acid washed", adding that it was a play on words and reference to a joke made by Clinton about "wiping" her email server with a cloth. BleachBit debunked Trump's claim on its website saying the software is not "very expensive," adding that it is completely free of charge.


    No chemicals were used... you have to laugh :D

    Not 'very expensive'. And I suppose Clinton's IT staff worked for free too?
    I just love how totally deadpan that 'verdict' was.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,772
    I'm watching "A Most Wanted Man" on Film4. Something's been bugging me throughout all of it, and it's just clicked. Philip Seymour Hoffmann is trying to do und Cherman aksent but by accident he's ended up doing a Welsh/Richard Burton accent. Viewed in that light, it's accidentally hysterical
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    OGH and premature posting....have we checked the markets?

    I've already converted all my Sterling into Flanian Pobble Beads... (don't ask me how)
  • Options
    The GOP farce is a precursor to how Labour will do with Jez as leader at a general election isn't it?

    The leader says something awful and the rest of the party disown him.
  • Options
    619619 Posts: 1,784

    RobD said:

    619 said:

    Unless Clinton makes a horrendous mistake, its an open goal for her.

    And if she makes a horrendous mistake, it's an open gaol for her.
    Is being a bit casual, or even deliberately obscuring with emails a jailing offence?

    At most barring from public office, I would have thought.

    Wouldn't get her in jail, but I'm surprised no one has been put out to dry for destroying the emails after the subpoena from Congress.
    How much down ticket Republican damage would there have to be for the Democrats to take the Senate? The HoR must surely be out of reach.

    I cannot see much value on Trump, even on the current 5.7. I cannot see a viable way for him to win FOP. I think the value has mostly gone on the State markets too.
    it depends. the last 14 point lead poll had trump favorables at 29%. Say its actually 36%, and the women/minorities who hate him REALLY hate him.

    Democrats and indies who vote Clinton wont split the ticket like that if you support Trump.

    If you denounce Trump, you may get a split ticket vote, but you will get a good portion of crazy trumpers voting against you. Even if u survive, you might get primaried for next time.

    So, your kinda screwedd either way
  • Options

    The GOP farce is a precursor to how Labour will do with Jez as leader at a general election isn't it?

    The leader says something awful and the rest of the party disown him.

    I can't wait for the 2020 debates...
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    The GOP farce is a precursor to how Labour will do with Jez as leader at a general election isn't it?

    The leader says something awful and the rest of the party disown him.

    I can't wait for the 2020 debates...
    That's if May even has them...
  • Options
    619619 Posts: 1,784
    RobD said:

    619 said:

    RobD said:

    619 said:

    viewcode said:

    Anyone else think the pussygate video was merely an appetising hors d'oeuvre before the main course?

    Honestly? I'm sick of it. Trump has the ethics of a pimp (and not the funny film versions) and paws his daughter in public. Clinton's husband may be a rapist. How the frak do we get some kind of nobility from this?
    aside from he said/she said, there is no evidence of clinton being a rapist. Its a 90's right wing fantasy
    Doesn't the same go for Trump's supposed sexual assault? It was just words, but you seem to think it was a confession.
    clearly someone boasting about sexual assault is stronger evidence.
    It wouldn't stand up in a court of law...
    we will find out when the case filed by his former business associate last year, where she accused him of grabbing her vagina, gets to court.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282
    619 said:

    RobD said:

    619 said:

    viewcode said:

    Anyone else think the pussygate video was merely an appetising hors d'oeuvre before the main course?

    Honestly? I'm sick of it. Trump has the ethics of a pimp (and not the funny film versions) and paws his daughter in public. Clinton's husband may be a rapist. How the frak do we get some kind of nobility from this?
    aside from he said/she said, there is no evidence of clinton being a rapist. Its a 90's right wing fantasy
    Doesn't the same go for Trump's supposed sexual assault? It was just words, but you seem to think it was a confession.
    clearly someone boasting about sexual assault is stronger evidence.
    Do we know who had the Bush/Trump bus recording and has released it now? And I wonder whether he knew of its existence and thought he could get away with its release, or never expected it would see the light of day. Despite having no time for him personally or politically it is remarkable that after all the money and effort he has sunk into his campaign he has come unstuck because of an eleven year old accidental recording.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,772
    RobD said:

    OGH and premature posting....have we checked the markets?

    I've already converted all my Sterling into Flanian Pobble Beads... (don't ask me how)
    Liar. The Flanian Pobble Bead is only exchangable for other Flanian Pobble Beads... :)
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,065

    The GOP farce is a precursor to how Labour will do with Jez as leader at a general election isn't it?

    The leader says something awful and the rest of the party disown him.

    Except in their case Owen Thingy will pop up and say something awful and the rest of the party will disown themselves.
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,942
    edited October 2016
    Jenkin is destroying Colonel Shadow Brexit on Newsnight....
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    619 said:

    RobD said:

    619 said:

    RobD said:

    619 said:

    viewcode said:

    Anyone else think the pussygate video was merely an appetising hors d'oeuvre before the main course?

    Honestly? I'm sick of it. Trump has the ethics of a pimp (and not the funny film versions) and paws his daughter in public. Clinton's husband may be a rapist. How the frak do we get some kind of nobility from this?
    aside from he said/she said, there is no evidence of clinton being a rapist. Its a 90's right wing fantasy
    Doesn't the same go for Trump's supposed sexual assault? It was just words, but you seem to think it was a confession.
    clearly someone boasting about sexual assault is stronger evidence.
    It wouldn't stand up in a court of law...
    we will find out when the case filed by his former business associate last year, where she accused him of grabbing her vagina, gets to court.
    Yeah, I suspect with more evidence than that tape.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,435
    edited October 2016
    RobD said:

    The GOP farce is a precursor to how Labour will do with Jez as leader at a general election isn't it?

    The leader says something awful and the rest of the party disown him.

    I can't wait for the 2020 debates...
    That's if May even has them...
    There is a former Tory election guru who did say

    'Theresa May will have the debates in 2020, she should do everything in her power to ensure Jeremy Corbyn is seen by the wider public, remember the vast majority of the public don't pay attention to politics apart from at a general election'
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited October 2016
    RobD said:

    OGH and premature posting....have we checked the markets?

    I've already converted all my Sterling into Flanian Pobble Beads... (don't ask me how)
    @rcs1000

    In answer to your question of the other day, the two currencies that have depreciated more than Sterling since June 24 are: the Mozambican Metzical, and the Sierra Leonean Leone.

    I haven't been to SL, but I think that Mozambique has had a bit of a raw deal. It is a lovely country and people.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    viewcode said:

    RobD said:

    OGH and premature posting....have we checked the markets?

    I've already converted all my Sterling into Flanian Pobble Beads... (don't ask me how)
    Liar. The Flanian Pobble Bead is only exchangable for other Flanian Pobble Beads... :)
    It's who you know....
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    FPT

    On rolling the dice and getting double sixes vs snake eyes, well Brexit is neither. It is pre-emptive action to protect the nation from a future populist uprising that we've been seeing in the US. They are very lucky that Nige is ineligible to run for president over there, he would have absolutely walked it, and the problems in America don't go away when Trump loses.

    All across the EU we're seeing populists in the ascendancy or rising. Fidesz won in Poland, Orban is dominant in Hungary, Bepe Grillo is probably going to be the next Italian PM, Le Pen is in with a shout in France, the FPO will probably win the rerun in Austria, AfD will comfortably be the largest non-governing party in the Bundestag. There are also more UKIP style parties in Northern Europe, PVV in the Netherlands, the True Finns are in the governing coalition, the Sweden Democrats are polling relatively well and will gain seats, possibly end up as the largest party.

    So looking across the channel at the rebellion against the establishment, Brexit is a symptom of the larger disease of wealth and income inequality. It is at times like these that we must look after our own and get our own house in order or everything we've built will be swept away. I'd rather Brexit than deal with a very messy populist uprising in 10-15 years.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited October 2016

    RobD said:

    The GOP farce is a precursor to how Labour will do with Jez as leader at a general election isn't it?

    The leader says something awful and the rest of the party disown him.

    I can't wait for the 2020 debates...
    That's if May even has them...
    There is a former Tory election guru who did say

    'Theresa May will have the debates in 2020, she should do everything in her power to ensure Jeremy Corbyn is seen by the wider public, remember the vast majority of the public don't pay attention to politics apart from at a general election'
    I would advise her to say nothing and let Jezza do all the talking.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    RobD said:

    OGH and premature posting....have we checked the markets?

    I've already converted all my Sterling into Flanian Pobble Beads... (don't ask me how)
    @RCS.

    In answer to your question of the other day, the two currencies that have depreciated more than Sterling since June 24 are: the Mozambican Metzical, and the Sierra Leonean Leone.

    I haven't been to SL, but I think that Mozambique has had a bit of a raw deal. It is a lovely country and people.
    If you use the full username in the comment, they'll get a notification that they were 'mentioned' in a thread. Useful if they aren't online at the time, and you want them to get the message.
  • Options
    MaxPB said:

    FPT

    On rolling the dice and getting double sixes vs snake eyes, well Brexit is neither. It is pre-emptive action to protect the nation from a future populist uprising that we've been seeing in the US. They are very lucky that Nige is ineligible to run for president over there, he would have absolutely walked it, and the problems in America don't go away when Trump loses.

    All across the EU we're seeing populists in the ascendancy or rising. Fidesz won in Poland, Orban is dominant in Hungary, Bepe Grillo is probably going to be the next Italian PM, Le Pen is in with a shout in France, the FPO will probably win the rerun in Austria, AfD will comfortably be the largest non-governing party in the Bundestag. There are also more UKIP style parties in Northern Europe, PVV in the Netherlands, the True Finns are in the governing coalition, the Sweden Democrats are polling relatively well and will gain seats, possibly end up as the largest party.

    So looking across the channel at the rebellion against the establishment, Brexit is a symptom of the larger disease of wealth and income inequality. It is at times like these that we must look after our own and get our own house in order or everything we've built will be swept away. I'd rather Brexit than deal with a very messy populist uprising in 10-15 years.

    What of a populist uprising in five years time when the voters rise up against the Leavers who promised them economic sunny uplands if they voted Leave turns out to be an economic disaster?
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,065
    MaxPB said:

    I'd rather Brexit than deal with a very messy populist uprising in 10-15 years.

    You think the two are mutually exclusive?
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,942
    MaxPB said:

    FPT

    On rolling the dice and getting double sixes vs snake eyes, well Brexit is neither. It is pre-emptive action to protect the nation from a future populist uprising that we've been seeing in the US. They are very lucky that Nige is ineligible to run for president over there, he would have absolutely walked it, and the problems in America don't go away when Trump loses.

    All across the EU we're seeing populists in the ascendancy or rising. Fidesz won in Poland, Orban is dominant in Hungary, Bepe Grillo is probably going to be the next Italian PM, Le Pen is in with a shout in France, the FPO will probably win the rerun in Austria, AfD will comfortably be the largest non-governing party in the Bundestag. There are also more UKIP style parties in Northern Europe, PVV in the Netherlands, the True Finns are in the governing coalition, the Sweden Democrats are polling relatively well and will gain seats, possibly end up as the largest party.

    So looking across the channel at the rebellion against the establishment, Brexit is a symptom of the larger disease of wealth and income inequality. It is at times like these that we must look after our own and get our own house in order or everything we've built will be swept away. I'd rather Brexit than deal with a very messy populist uprising in 10-15 years.

    Well said Max.

    Modern Britain has been fantastic at avoiding revolution. We're doing it again now.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    OGH and premature posting....have we checked the markets?

    I've already converted all my Sterling into Flanian Pobble Beads... (don't ask me how)
    @rcs1000
    In answer to your question of the other day, the two currencies that have depreciated more than Sterling since June 24 are: the Mozambican Metzical, and the Sierra Leonean Leone.

    I haven't been to SL, but I think that Mozambique has had a bit of a raw deal. It is a lovely country and people.
    If you use the full username in the comment, they'll get a notification that they were 'mentioned' in a thread. Useful if they aren't online at the time, and you want them to get the message.
    Thanks. I have edited the original.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282
    MaxPB said:

    FPT

    On rolling the dice and getting double sixes vs snake eyes, well Brexit is neither. It is pre-emptive action to protect the nation from a future populist uprising that we've been seeing in the US. They are very lucky that Nige is ineligible to run for president over there, he would have absolutely walked it, and the problems in America don't go away when Trump loses.

    All across the EU we're seeing populists in the ascendancy or rising. Fidesz won in Poland, Orban is dominant in Hungary, Bepe Grillo is probably going to be the next Italian PM, Le Pen is in with a shout in France, the FPO will probably win the rerun in Austria, AfD will comfortably be the largest non-governing party in the Bundestag. There are also more UKIP style parties in Northern Europe, PVV in the Netherlands, the True Finns are in the governing coalition, the Sweden Democrats are polling relatively well and will gain seats, possibly end up as the largest party.

    So looking across the channel at the rebellion against the establishment, Brexit is a symptom of the larger disease of wealth and income inequality. It is at times like these that we must look after our own and get our own house in order or everything we've built will be swept away. I'd rather Brexit than deal with a very messy populist uprising in 10-15 years.

    Except that Brexit does next to nothing to address the real concerns that you rightly highlight, and if the economy goes pear shaped the wealth/inequality is likely to become worse rather than better. All the other things that May spelled out as aspirations in her conference speech (as yet unsupported by any actual proposals as to how to achieve them) could have been done with or without Brexit.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850
    Barnesian said:

    RobD said:

    619 said:

    Unless Clinton makes a horrendous mistake, its an open goal for her.

    And if she makes a horrendous mistake, it's an open gaol for her.
    Is being a bit casual, or even deliberately obscuring with emails a jailing offence?

    At most barring from public office, I would have thought.

    Wouldn't get her in jail, but I'm surprised no one has been put out to dry for destroying the emails after the subpoena from Congress.
    How much down ticket Republican damage would there have to be for the Democrats to take the Senate? The HoR must surely be out of reach.

    I cannot see much value on Trump, even on the current 5.7. I cannot see a viable way for him to win FOP. I think the value has mostly gone on the State markets too.
    According to 538, there is a 58% chance that the Democrats will control the Senate (even if it by the casting vote of the VP)

    http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/senate/?ex_cid=2016-forecast
    I suspect that Trump won't destroy the Republicans in the Senate. First term Presidents can make hefty gains, like Reagan in 1980, Obama in 2008. But, second or third term big Presidential victories tend not to generate big Senate gains, eg Nixon 1972, Reagan 1984, Bush 1988, Clinton 1996.

    But, Clinton doesn't need to win big to win the Senate. The Republicans are defending 24 out of 34. If the Democrats gain just 4, they take control.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited October 2016
    "Polling day is four weeks tomorrow and there’s plenty of time for something else to happen", says Mike.

    Well, yes, that is partially true, although something like a third of votes will be cast in early voting well before November 8th.

    Even if that were not the case, though, the die seems to be, if not yet quite cast, at least solidifying rapidly. It's miles too late to bump Trump off the ticket. The pros and cons (mostly cons) of the two candidates have been clear for yonks. Senior Republicans are backing away as fast as they can. The polls are coming thick and fast, and they're mostly dire for Trump.

    Sure, something might turn up. But, most likely, it won't.
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    Dominic Cummings of Vote Leave is tweeting some interesting stuff

    a/ Some of those on the Leave side now downplaying importance of immigration are in danger of self-delusion

    b/ The immigration of past 15 yrs/TV pics of refugee crisis was a necessary condition for Vote Leave to win but it was not sufficient

    c/ Idea that there was a majority for Leave based just on desire for democratic self-government is, unfortunately, a romantic delusion
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    MaxPB said:

    FPT

    On rolling the dice and getting double sixes vs snake eyes, well Brexit is neither. It is pre-emptive action to protect the nation from a future populist uprising that we've been seeing in the US. They are very lucky that Nige is ineligible to run for president over there, he would have absolutely walked it, and the problems in America don't go away when Trump loses.

    All across the EU we're seeing populists in the ascendancy or rising. Fidesz won in Poland, Orban is dominant in Hungary, Bepe Grillo is probably going to be the next Italian PM, Le Pen is in with a shout in France, the FPO will probably win the rerun in Austria, AfD will comfortably be the largest non-governing party in the Bundestag. There are also more UKIP style parties in Northern Europe, PVV in the Netherlands, the True Finns are in the governing coalition, the Sweden Democrats are polling relatively well and will gain seats, possibly end up as the largest party.

    So looking across the channel at the rebellion against the establishment, Brexit is a symptom of the larger disease of wealth and income inequality. It is at times like these that we must look after our own and get our own house in order or everything we've built will be swept away. I'd rather Brexit than deal with a very messy populist uprising in 10-15 years.

    What of a populist uprising in five years time when the voters rise up against the Leavers who promised them economic sunny uplands if they voted Leave turns out to be an economic disaster?
    I think that we will see a degree of sobriety returning to the electorate as they see the price of imported good outstretching their incomes, but the punch in the guts will be immigration figures running much the same as before.

    Blue passports will of course be more than adequate compensation.
  • Options
    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    MaxPB said:

    FPT

    On rolling the dice and getting double sixes vs snake eyes, well Brexit is neither. It is pre-emptive action to protect the nation from a future populist uprising that we've been seeing in the US. They are very lucky that Nige is ineligible to run for president over there, he would have absolutely walked it, and the problems in America don't go away when Trump loses.

    All across the EU we're seeing populists in the ascendancy or rising. Fidesz won in Poland, Orban is dominant in Hungary, Bepe Grillo is probably going to be the next Italian PM, Le Pen is in with a shout in France, the FPO will probably win the rerun in Austria, AfD will comfortably be the largest non-governing party in the Bundestag. There are also more UKIP style parties in Northern Europe, PVV in the Netherlands, the True Finns are in the governing coalition, the Sweden Democrats are polling relatively well and will gain seats, possibly end up as the largest party.

    So looking across the channel at the rebellion against the establishment, Brexit is a symptom of the larger disease of wealth and income inequality. It is at times like these that we must look after our own and get our own house in order or everything we've built will be swept away. I'd rather Brexit than deal with a very messy populist uprising in 10-15 years.

    What of a populist uprising in five years time when the voters rise up against the Leavers who promised them economic sunny uplands if they voted Leave turns out to be an economic disaster?
    It will be far too early to judge.

    And, of course, if people aren't happy after we Leave they can always campaign to Rejoin.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,772
    RobD said:

    viewcode said:

    RobD said:

    OGH and premature posting....have we checked the markets?

    I've already converted all my Sterling into Flanian Pobble Beads... (don't ask me how)
    Liar. The Flanian Pobble Bead is only exchangable for other Flanian Pobble Beads... :)
    It's who you know....
    Don't get paid in Ningis. They're impossible to get thru Customs. Literally... :)
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Dominic Cummings of Vote Leave is tweeting some interesting stuff

    a/ Some of those on the Leave side now downplaying importance of immigration are in danger of self-delusion

    b/ The immigration of past 15 yrs/TV pics of refugee crisis was a necessary condition for Vote Leave to win but it was not sufficient

    c/ Idea that there was a majority for Leave based just on desire for democratic self-government is, unfortunately, a romantic delusion

    In other words the useful idiots were idiots, but useful.

    Well, duh...
  • Options
    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    MaxPB said:

    FPT

    On rolling the dice and getting double sixes vs snake eyes, well Brexit is neither. It is pre-emptive action to protect the nation from a future populist uprising that we've been seeing in the US. They are very lucky that Nige is ineligible to run for president over there, he would have absolutely walked it, and the problems in America don't go away when Trump loses.

    All across the EU we're seeing populists in the ascendancy or rising. Fidesz won in Poland, Orban is dominant in Hungary, Bepe Grillo is probably going to be the next Italian PM, Le Pen is in with a shout in France, the FPO will probably win the rerun in Austria, AfD will comfortably be the largest non-governing party in the Bundestag. There are also more UKIP style parties in Northern Europe, PVV in the Netherlands, the True Finns are in the governing coalition, the Sweden Democrats are polling relatively well and will gain seats, possibly end up as the largest party.

    So looking across the channel at the rebellion against the establishment, Brexit is a symptom of the larger disease of wealth and income inequality. It is at times like these that we must look after our own and get our own house in order or everything we've built will be swept away. I'd rather Brexit than deal with a very messy populist uprising in 10-15 years.

    What of a populist uprising in five years time when the voters rise up against the Leavers who promised them economic sunny uplands if they voted Leave turns out to be an economic disaster?
    I think that we will see a degree of sobriety returning to the electorate as they see the price of imported good outstretching their incomes, but the punch in the guts will be immigration figures running much the same as before.
    You hope.
  • Options
    Stepping back and looking at the evidence:

    (1) There have been several examples within the past 12 months of where the political polling has been out by a considerable margin - Brexit / Spain / Austria

    (2) Political polls seem to be particularly prone to be out when one view is particularly controversial / considered toxic - Brexit post-the Jo Cox murder / Austria again with Hofer / AfD in the state polls in Germany to a lesser degree (ps before anyone starts claiming with Brexit that the polls were "right all along", that is a revisionist argument by the polling companies to save themselves: they generally were not).

    We know that Trump is considered toxic and also that he attracts a lot of bile. So, if we are assuming that the polls are right in this election, then that would mean that:

    (1) US polling is of higher infinitely quality than that in Europe and / or;
    (2) That US voters are willing to state their views in a way that European voters are not

    I definitely do not see much evidence of (1) and, given the US is probably more PC-led than Europe, I have considerable doubts about (2).

    So, while Trump looks the underdog, it would be dangerous to place too much emphasis on the polls.

    Finally, a point that was raised by Williamglenn earlier - what is interesting about the polls is that, in many cases, the two combined struggle to score above a combined percentage of 90% and that, generally, when Clinton's lead extends, it is more because Trump's score falls than HRC's rises. That may - but only may - be a sign of "Shy Trumpsters".
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    MaxPB said:

    FPT

    On rolling the dice and getting double sixes vs snake eyes, well Brexit is neither. It is pre-emptive action to protect the nation from a future populist uprising that we've been seeing in the US. They are very lucky that Nige is ineligible to run for president over there, he would have absolutely walked it, and the problems in America don't go away when Trump loses.

    All across the EU we're seeing populists in the ascendancy or rising. Fidesz won in Poland, Orban is dominant in Hungary, Bepe Grillo is probably going to be the next Italian PM, Le Pen is in with a shout in France, the FPO will probably win the rerun in Austria, AfD will comfortably be the largest non-governing party in the Bundestag. There are also more UKIP style parties in Northern Europe, PVV in the Netherlands, the True Finns are in the governing coalition, the Sweden Democrats are polling relatively well and will gain seats, possibly end up as the largest party.

    So looking across the channel at the rebellion against the establishment, Brexit is a symptom of the larger disease of wealth and income inequality. It is at times like these that we must look after our own and get our own house in order or everything we've built will be swept away. I'd rather Brexit than deal with a very messy populist uprising in 10-15 years.

    What of a populist uprising in five years time when the voters rise up against the Leavers who promised them economic sunny uplands if they voted Leave turns out to be an economic disaster?
    An economic disaster for you and I perhaps, it is our industry which is most at risk of being traded for migrant curbs. I'm not sure that someone earning the minimum wage working in Argos really gives a shit though. In fact that person will be earning £9/h in 2020, so should have seen a fairly large real terms pay increase. The short term issues we might have today are worth the long term stability that comes with making our democracy legitimate. Moving power one step closer to the people can only be a good thing, when it becomes too remote people become rebellious. With more decisions being made in Westminster we can hold our politicians to account in a way we've never been able to do with Brussels.
  • Options
    Scott_P said:

    Dominic Cummings of Vote Leave is tweeting some interesting stuff

    a/ Some of those on the Leave side now downplaying importance of immigration are in danger of self-delusion

    b/ The immigration of past 15 yrs/TV pics of refugee crisis was a necessary condition for Vote Leave to win but it was not sufficient

    c/ Idea that there was a majority for Leave based just on desire for democratic self-government is, unfortunately, a romantic delusion

    In other words the useful idiots were idiots, but useful.

    Well, duh...
    Dan Hannan's meltdown today has been a joy to view.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850

    MaxPB said:

    FPT

    On rolling the dice and getting double sixes vs snake eyes, well Brexit is neither. It is pre-emptive action to protect the nation from a future populist uprising that we've been seeing in the US. They are very lucky that Nige is ineligible to run for president over there, he would have absolutely walked it, and the problems in America don't go away when Trump loses.

    All across the EU we're seeing populists in the ascendancy or rising. Fidesz won in Poland, Orban is dominant in Hungary, Bepe Grillo is probably going to be the next Italian PM, Le Pen is in with a shout in France, the FPO will probably win the rerun in Austria, AfD will comfortably be the largest non-governing party in the Bundestag. There are also more UKIP style parties in Northern Europe, PVV in the Netherlands, the True Finns are in the governing coalition, the Sweden Democrats are polling relatively well and will gain seats, possibly end up as the largest party.

    So looking across the channel at the rebellion against the establishment, Brexit is a symptom of the larger disease of wealth and income inequality. It is at times like these that we must look after our own and get our own house in order or everything we've built will be swept away. I'd rather Brexit than deal with a very messy populist uprising in 10-15 years.

    What of a populist uprising in five years time when the voters rise up against the Leavers who promised them economic sunny uplands if they voted Leave turns out to be an economic disaster?
    The likelihood is it will be neither an economic disaster, nor an economic boom.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,715
    Scott_P said:
    A couple of points. The now Osborne-free Treasury are sticking with the pre-referendum analysis. While Brexit ministers complain about the assumptions made about the kind of deal we would get absent the SIngle Market, they haven't come up with alternative projections:

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/785596818054840320
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited October 2016
    This market has been quite profitable for me.

    My last major trade was balancing my book against Donald @ ~3.1 a few minutes into the first debate right as he was stumbling over his tax returns.

    Currently;

    +27 Clinton
    +75 Kaine
    +-0 Donald & everyone else who can be laid
    +150 Anyone else.

    I could green out for +22.5, but I think Clinton is still value @ 1.24 so I'm not going to.
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    Incidentally, I thought the sense-of-humour-failure amongst a string of Leavers on the last thread was very telling indeed.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Scott_P said:

    Dominic Cummings of Vote Leave is tweeting some interesting stuff

    a/ Some of those on the Leave side now downplaying importance of immigration are in danger of self-delusion

    b/ The immigration of past 15 yrs/TV pics of refugee crisis was a necessary condition for Vote Leave to win but it was not sufficient

    c/ Idea that there was a majority for Leave based just on desire for democratic self-government is, unfortunately, a romantic delusion

    In other words the useful idiots were idiots, but useful.

    Well, duh...
    Dan Hannan's meltdown today has been a joy to view.
    Where is it to be seen?

    A bit of tarring and feathering is long overdue.
  • Options

    Incidentally, I thought the sense-of-humour-failure amongst a string of Leavers on the last thread was very telling indeed.

    Wait until you see the thread I'm publishing on Sunday. It will come with a trigger warning and PB will be providing counselling for leavers.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    MaxPB said:

    Moving power one step closer to the people can only be a good thing, when it becomes too remote people become rebellious. With more decisions being made in Westminster we can hold our politicians to account in a way we've never been able to do with Brussels.

    You clearly missed the Brexit statement today, where it was made clear that Westminster has naff all say in what happens next.

    It's one man, one vote. Tezza is the man, she has the one vote.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    Incidentally, I thought the sense-of-humour-failure amongst a string of Leavers on the last thread was very telling indeed.

    Wait until you see the thread I'm publishing on Sunday. It will come with a trigger warning and PB will be providing counselling for leavers.
    I, for one, hope it's an AV trigger warning... :)
This discussion has been closed.