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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Celebrity Corbyn cheerleader Paul Mason caught on video plotti

SystemSystem Posts: 11,016
edited October 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Celebrity Corbyn cheerleader Paul Mason caught on video plotting against LAB leader saying he should be replaced by Clive Lewis

Corbyn cheerleader Paul Mason caught by Sun attacking LAB leader & saying he should be replaced by Clive Lewis https://t.co/mCqg3qpEn9 pic.twitter.com/2n2cCWthoH

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,052
    First
  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,149
    Everybody knows he's right. Why is it so hard to make this happen?
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,612
    Third! Like SLAB

    Journalist caught telling the truth SHOCKER
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,612
    Lewis is one of the favourites to succeed Corbyn and having Mason as an advocate will no doubt be helpful.

    Paul Who?

    If not already an unperson I suspect the status rapidly beckons.....meanwhile Mason's twitter stream is a hoot...
  • Options
    Not only that, he drinks shit hipster beer....
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,612
    The NYT tells Trump to Foxtrot Oscar:

    We did what the law allows: We published newsworthy information about a subject of deep public concern. If Mr. Trump disagrees, if he believes that American citizens had no right to hear what these women had to say and that the law of this country forces us and those who would dare to criticize him to stand silent or be punished, we welcome the opportunity to have a court set him straight.

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/10/13/us/politics/david-mccraw-trump-letter.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,612
    Mind you, Mr Mason's restaurant of choice looks authentically working class - Brioche Buns for their chicken burgers (£7 - £9) and beer £4.50/pint.....
  • Options

    The NYT tells Trump to Foxtrot Oscar:

    We did what the law allows: We published newsworthy information about a subject of deep public concern. If Mr. Trump disagrees, if he believes that American citizens had no right to hear what these women had to say and that the law of this country forces us and those who would dare to criticize him to stand silent or be punished, we welcome the opportunity to have a court set him straight.

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/10/13/us/politics/david-mccraw-trump-letter.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0

    I always find the US law very confusing. National Enquirer can print nonsense every week with seemingly no recourse, Hulk Hogan can sue Gawker for $100+ million for exposing something that actually happened.
  • Options

    Mind you, Mr Mason's restaurant of choice looks authentically working class - Brioche Buns for their chicken burgers (£7 - £9) and beer £4.50/pint.....

    Nought too good for ta werkers....
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited October 2016
    Mid Life Crisis Mason is having a proper meltdown on twitter.

    https://twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/786693409163603968

    I am going to tell your mum and dad about you...
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,612

    Mind you, Mr Mason's restaurant of choice looks authentically working class - Brioche Buns for their chicken burgers (£7 - £9) and beer £4.50/pint.....

    Nought too good for ta werkers....
    "Just your average hipster hang out joint..." (Trip Advisor)
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,052

    Mind you, Mr Mason's restaurant of choice looks authentically working class - Brioche Buns for their chicken burgers (£7 - £9) and beer £4.50/pint.....

    Nought too good for ta werkers....
    "Just your average hipster hang out joint..." (Trip Advisor)
    You have nothing to lose but your pale ale.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited October 2016

    Mind you, Mr Mason's restaurant of choice looks authentically working class - Brioche Buns for their chicken burgers (£7 - £9) and beer £4.50/pint.....

    Nought too good for ta werkers....
    "Just your average hipster hang out joint..." (Trip Advisor)
    You have nothing to lose but your pale ale.
    It looks decent enough place to me, not exactly champagne at the Ritz:

    http://www.yardbirdliverpool.com/blank

    Indeed I am quite tempted by one of their Hard Shakes next time I am up there. Liverpool is a great town at night.

    This is all a bit of a non-story, reporter speculating on who follows on from Jezzz in a few years time. Must be a slow news day at the Sun.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    Mind you, Mr Mason's restaurant of choice looks authentically working class - Brioche Buns for their chicken burgers (£7 - £9) and beer £4.50/pint.....

    Nought too good for ta werkers....
    "Just your average hipster hang out joint..." (Trip Advisor)
    You have nothing to lose but your pale ale.
    It looks decent enough place to me, not exactly champagne at the Ritz:

    http://www.yardbirdliverpool.com/blank

    Indeed I am quite tempted by one of their Hard Shakes next time I am up there. Liverpool is a great town at night.

    This is all a bit of a non-story, reporter speculating on who follows on from Jezzz in a few years time. Must be a slow news day at the Sun.
    I thought Mason was more of an activist these days?
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,612

    Mind you, Mr Mason's restaurant of choice looks authentically working class - Brioche Buns for their chicken burgers (£7 - £9) and beer £4.50/pint.....

    Nought too good for ta werkers....
    "Just your average hipster hang out joint..." (Trip Advisor)
    You have nothing to lose but your pale ale.
    This is all a bit of a non-story, reporter speculating on who follows on from Jezzz in a few years time. Must be a slow news day at the Sun.
    "Sleb promoter of Corbyn thinks he's not up to the job" is a "non-story"?
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    RobD said:

    Mind you, Mr Mason's restaurant of choice looks authentically working class - Brioche Buns for their chicken burgers (£7 - £9) and beer £4.50/pint.....

    Nought too good for ta werkers....
    "Just your average hipster hang out joint..." (Trip Advisor)
    You have nothing to lose but your pale ale.
    It looks decent enough place to me, not exactly champagne at the Ritz:

    http://www.yardbirdliverpool.com/blank

    Indeed I am quite tempted by one of their Hard Shakes next time I am up there. Liverpool is a great town at night.

    This is all a bit of a non-story, reporter speculating on who follows on from Jezzz in a few years time. Must be a slow news day at the Sun.
    I thought Mason was more of an activist these days?
    I am not sure what his employment status is, and his political views have long been a little odd.

    Much respect from me for his Northern Soul documentary, and Keeping the Faith at Wigan Casino:

    https://youtu.be/JMtaEASd2LI

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    ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,405

    The NYT tells Trump to Foxtrot Oscar:

    We did what the law allows: We published newsworthy information about a subject of deep public concern. If Mr. Trump disagrees, if he believes that American citizens had no right to hear what these women had to say and that the law of this country forces us and those who would dare to criticize him to stand silent or be punished, we welcome the opportunity to have a court set him straight.

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/10/13/us/politics/david-mccraw-trump-letter.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0

    That is a beautiful letter!
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,612
    ToryJim said:

    The NYT tells Trump to Foxtrot Oscar:

    We did what the law allows: We published newsworthy information about a subject of deep public concern. If Mr. Trump disagrees, if he believes that American citizens had no right to hear what these women had to say and that the law of this country forces us and those who would dare to criticize him to stand silent or be punished, we welcome the opportunity to have a court set him straight.

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/10/13/us/politics/david-mccraw-trump-letter.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0

    That is a beautiful letter!
    I suspect Trump will never file suit...
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    DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    edited October 2016
    619 said:


    on 5, the only talk of someone skipping the debate is Trump. Clinton will 100% do it.

    It would be a big mistake for either of them to skip the debate, but there has been talk of Clinton pulling out.
    Speedy said:


    On 4. The NYT doesn't have much influence outside of the New York area, they are very well known but not many read them outside of a 50 mile radius from New York City, also they are priced in as a part of the Democratic Party.
    Partisan media have the least effect in affecting the voters in the middle.

    I may be being too influenced by my own experience of getting small stories into the NYT that then appear in major newspapers around the world within hours, unlike when they don't appear in the NYT and go out like damp squibs despite the same newspapers having received the press releases. Certainly there's a lot of pricing in, given that since Eisenhower the NYT has always endorsed the Democrat. What's different this time is that when Trump fulminates against a "small handful of global special interests" who control the US government and "rig" the system including by wielding control over the media, and snarls that the solution is to put "America first", he means some of his audience to infer that he is referring to Jewish power.

    He referred about a dozen times to the NYT in his speech yesterday (transcript). As NYT David McCraw says in his letter, Trump's legal threat is built on sand, but nonetheless there will be more shots in the battle.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181
    edited October 2016

    The NYT tells Trump to Foxtrot Oscar:

    We did what the law allows: We published newsworthy information about a subject of deep public concern. If Mr. Trump disagrees, if he believes that American citizens had no right to hear what these women had to say and that the law of this country forces us and those who would dare to criticize him to stand silent or be punished, we welcome the opportunity to have a court set him straight.

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/10/13/us/politics/david-mccraw-trump-letter.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0

    I believe the legal term is not 'Foxtrot Oscar' but 'Arkell v Pressdram'.

    I always find the US law very confusing. National Enquirer can print nonsense every week with seemingly no recourse, Hulk Hogan can sue Gawker for $100+ million for exposing something that actually happened.

    AIUI, you can write pretty much what you like as long as it's given as opinion, and you don't invent quotes or give facts that are not true to support it. However, for a public figure he would also have to prove the accusations were (1) false and (2) malicious to actually get damages.

    Wasn't Hogan's case allowed because illegal methods were used to gather information with no public interest defence?

    If you are interested in learning more, check out these links about a current libel case involving an author based in Ohio who is also, shall we say, not quite aware of the correct way to behave around ladies:

    https://www.docdroid.net/eUs7E9S/skepticon-response-redacted.pdf.html

    http://atheisticallyspeaking.com/as280-richard-carriers-lawsuit-andrew-torrez/
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    Mind you, Mr Mason's restaurant of choice looks authentically working class - Brioche Buns for their chicken burgers (£7 - £9) and beer £4.50/pint.....

    Nought too good for ta werkers....
    "Just your average hipster hang out joint..." (Trip Advisor)
    You have nothing to lose but your pale ale.
    This is all a bit of a non-story, reporter speculating on who follows on from Jezzz in a few years time. Must be a slow news day at the Sun.
    "Sleb promoter of Corbyn thinks he's not up to the job" is a "non-story"?
    And why Lewis.. he is a hard left MP acc to his wiki.. is it simply that he is more personable?
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    National - Fox News - Sample 917 - 10-12 Oct

    Clinton 45 .. Trump 38

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/interactive/2016/10/13/fox-news-poll-october-13-2016/
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
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    mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    619 said:
    In between the relentless shilling could you give me some guidance on where any pockets of value remain in the Presidential/Congress betting. Thanks.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Oregon - SUSA/KATU-TV - Sample 800 - 10-12 Oct

    Clinton 48 .. Trump 38

    http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=088d0066-02dc-4faa-affe-a321d1390f73
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    619619 Posts: 1,784
    matt said:

    619 said:
    In between the relentless shilling could you give me some guidance on where any pockets of value remain in the Presidential/Congress betting. Thanks.
    clinton for texas and arizona.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    LA Times Panel Tracker - Sample 2,838 - 13 Oct

    Clinton 44.2 .. Trump 44.3

    http://graphics.latimes.com/usc-presidential-poll-dashboard/
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited October 2016
    619 said:

    matt said:

    619 said:
    In between the relentless shilling could you give me some guidance on where any pockets of value remain in the Presidential/Congress betting. Thanks.
    clinton for texas and arizona.
    I agee and would add: Clinton in Alaska and Utah (thanks to the split on the Right), Trump in Ohio the classic rust belt state.

    Indeed there may be some value in Con take Bootle too.
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    DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    Rosie Tripp, RNC member for New Mexico:

    "I am dismayed by our own Republicans who are bailing like rats off a ship. He who is without sin can cast the first stone. I am sure they are not as pure as the driven snow, either."

    I wonder whether she often mixes three metaphors like that. Her message seems to be "sink with the ship".

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    RobD said:

    Mind you, Mr Mason's restaurant of choice looks authentically working class - Brioche Buns for their chicken burgers (£7 - £9) and beer £4.50/pint.....

    Nought too good for ta werkers....
    "Just your average hipster hang out joint..." (Trip Advisor)
    You have nothing to lose but your pale ale.
    It looks decent enough place to me, not exactly champagne at the Ritz:

    http://www.yardbirdliverpool.com/blank

    Indeed I am quite tempted by one of their Hard Shakes next time I am up there. Liverpool is a great town at night.

    This is all a bit of a non-story, reporter speculating on who follows on from Jezzz in a few years time. Must be a slow news day at the Sun.
    I thought Mason was more of an activist these days?
    I am not sure what his employment status is, and his political views have long been a little odd.

    Much respect from me for his Northern Soul documentary, and Keeping the Faith at Wigan Casino:

    https://youtu.be/JMtaEASd2LI

    That documentary was superb - brilliantly informative and also very moving. Sadly, the Scottish woman in it died not that long after it came out.

    I am glad in a way that Mason has been exposed as a cynical hypocrite. I did not want him to be what he has appeared to be over the summer: a total fool.

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    JennyFreemanJennyFreeman Posts: 488
    edited October 2016
    The baffling and bizarre thing is that Trump is actually ahead in two tracker polls:
    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2016/white_house_watch_oct13
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/

    I expect it's all over and that he will take a hammering but it's not yet surefire according to the polls.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,052
    JackW said:

    LA Times Panel Tracker - Sample 2,838 - 13 Oct

    Clinton 44.2 .. Trump 44.3

    http://graphics.latimes.com/usc-presidential-poll-dashboard/

    You forgot 'chortle'... :)
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    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    Mid Life Crisis Mason is having a proper meltdown on twitter.

    https://twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/786693409163603968

    I am going to tell your mum and dad about you...
    Who actually talks like this?

    https://twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/786678986990620673

    What a tit.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,612
    edited October 2016
    619 said:

    twitter.com/joshtpm/status/786730004814045184

    Only yesterday Giuliani was caught out 'mis-remembering' 'Clinton never showed up after 9/11' - promptly followed by photos of them walking together,

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/10/13/giuliani-new-york-clinton-september-11/91988658/

    and of course there's the notorious Trump 'Muslims celebrating 9/11 in New Jersey...'

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/nov/22/donald-trump/fact-checking-trumps-claim-thousands-new-jersey-ch/
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    619 said:

    matt said:

    619 said:
    In between the relentless shilling could you give me some guidance on where any pockets of value remain in the Presidential/Congress betting. Thanks.
    clinton for texas and arizona.
    I agee and would add: Clinton in Alaska and Utah (thanks to the split on the Right), Trump in Ohio the classic rust belt state.

    Indeed there may be some value in Con take Bootle too.
    Not to mention a very good value bet in UKIP to win Islington North
  • Options

    The baffling and bizarre thing is that Trump is actually ahead in two tracker polls:
    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2016/white_house_watch_oct13
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/

    I expect it's all over and that he will take a hammering but it's not yet surefire according to the polls.

    Yeah, he's obviously had it, just the odd poll which must be rogue suggesting otherwise #brexit
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    LA Times Panel Tracker - Sample 2,838 - 13 Oct

    Clinton 44.2 .. Trump 44.3

    http://graphics.latimes.com/usc-presidential-poll-dashboard/

    You forgot 'chortle'... :)
    So I did ....

    CHORTLE .... :smiley:
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    RobD said:

    Mind you, Mr Mason's restaurant of choice looks authentically working class - Brioche Buns for their chicken burgers (£7 - £9) and beer £4.50/pint.....

    Nought too good for ta werkers....
    "Just your average hipster hang out joint..." (Trip Advisor)
    You have nothing to lose but your pale ale.
    It looks decent enough place to me, not exactly champagne at the Ritz:

    http://www.yardbirdliverpool.com/blank

    Indeed I am quite tempted by one of their Hard Shakes next time I am up there. Liverpool is a great town at night.

    This is all a bit of a non-story, reporter speculating on who follows on from Jezzz in a few years time. Must be a slow news day at the Sun.
    I thought Mason was more of an activist these days?
    I am not sure what his employment status is, and his political views have long been a little odd.

    Much respect from me for his Northern Soul documentary, and Keeping the Faith at Wigan Casino:

    https://youtu.be/JMtaEASd2LI

    That documentary was superb - brilliantly informative and also very moving. Sadly, the Scottish woman in it died not that long after it came out.

    I am glad in a way that Mason has been exposed as a cynical hypocrite. I did not want him to be what he has appeared to be over the summer: a total fool.

    I am not sure that a short clip from a long conversation would give the full story. Mason wants the left to retain control the party, and sees Corbyn as a means to that end, accepting that he has significant flaws. Indeed even Jezza himself might agree!
  • Options

    The baffling and bizarre thing is that Trump is actually ahead in two tracker polls:
    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2016/white_house_watch_oct13
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/

    I expect it's all over and that he will take a hammering but it's not yet surefire according to the polls.

    Yeah, he's obviously had it, just the odd poll which must be rogue suggesting otherwise #brexit
    Well quite.

    There's a value flutter to be had on Trump: better than buying a lottery ticket anyway.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181

    619 said:

    matt said:

    619 said:
    In between the relentless shilling could you give me some guidance on where any pockets of value remain in the Presidential/Congress betting. Thanks.
    clinton for texas and arizona.
    I agee and would add: Clinton in Alaska and Utah (thanks to the split on the Right), Trump in Ohio the classic rust belt state.

    Indeed there may be some value in Con take Bootle too.
    Not to mention a very good value bet in UKIP to win Islington North
    And Islington South perhaps? Or is that very safe for somebody who cries misogyny when asked easy questions, impersonates army officers and tweets abuse about white van drivers and the national flag?
  • Options
    Mason wants to be careful. Momentum will issue a Fatwa against him
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,052

    619 said:

    twitter.com/joshtpm/status/786730004814045184

    Only yesterday Giuliani was caught out 'mis-remembering' 'Clinton never showed up after 9/11' - promptly followed by photos of them walking together,

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/10/13/giuliani-new-york-clinton-september-11/91988658/

    Does your comment refer to a different story because the one you linked has Giuliani apologising for accusing Clinton of claiming she was in New York on 9/11. She wasn't - she visited on 9/12 and that's the day the pictures were from.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181

    Mason wants to be careful. Momentum will issue a Fatwa against him

    Didn't realise they'd got that bad :hushed:
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,612
    Lord Ashcroft:

    .....analysts agreed that Trump’s chances depended on being able to convince female voters in places like suburban Philadelphia. In what my team claims to be a stoke of strategic and methodological genius, but which I know for a fact to be a fluke, our focus groups this week were with… women voters in suburban Philadelphia.

    http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/10/hes-different-like-a-drunk-uncle-my-us-election-focus-groups-in-philadelphia/
  • Options
    JennyFreemanJennyFreeman Posts: 488
    edited October 2016

    RobD said:

    Mind you, Mr Mason's restaurant of choice looks authentically working class - Brioche Buns for their chicken burgers (£7 - £9) and beer £4.50/pint.....

    Nought too good for ta werkers....
    "Just your average hipster hang out joint..." (Trip Advisor)
    You have nothing to lose but your pale ale.
    It looks decent enough place to me, not exactly champagne at the Ritz:

    http://www.yardbirdliverpool.com/blank

    Indeed I am quite tempted by one of their Hard Shakes next time I am up there. Liverpool is a great town at night.

    This is all a bit of a non-story, reporter speculating on who follows on from Jezzz in a few years time. Must be a slow news day at the Sun.




    Paul Mason told the working class voters whom he professes to love so much to vote to Remain. He's a less authentic voice on the left than Corbyn.
  • Options
    HaroldOHaroldO Posts: 1,185
    ydoethur said:

    Mason wants to be careful. Momentum will issue a Fatwa against him

    Didn't realise they'd got that bad :hushed:
    Twitter storm more like, oh the humanity.
  • Options
    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956

    The baffling and bizarre thing is that Trump is actually ahead in two tracker polls:
    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2016/white_house_watch_oct13
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/

    I expect it's all over and that he will take a hammering but it's not yet surefire according to the polls.

    Yeah, he's obviously had it, just the odd poll which must be rogue suggesting otherwise #brexit
    Well quite.

    There's a value flutter to be had on Trump: better than buying a lottery ticket anyway.
    Two factors come to mind to make me think this isn't quite over: shy voters (obviously) and Johnson voters defecting at the last minute.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,304

    Lord Ashcroft:

    .....analysts agreed that Trump’s chances depended on being able to convince female voters in places like suburban Philadelphia. In what my team claims to be a stoke of strategic and methodological genius, but which I know for a fact to be a fluke, our focus groups this week were with… women voters in suburban Philadelphia.

    http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/10/hes-different-like-a-drunk-uncle-my-us-election-focus-groups-in-philadelphia/

    Very interesting.
  • Options

    RobD said:

    Mind you, Mr Mason's restaurant of choice looks authentically working class - Brioche Buns for their chicken burgers (£7 - £9) and beer £4.50/pint.....

    Nought too good for ta werkers....
    "Just your average hipster hang out joint..." (Trip Advisor)
    You have nothing to lose but your pale ale.
    It looks decent enough place to me, not exactly champagne at the Ritz:

    http://www.yardbirdliverpool.com/blank

    Indeed I am quite tempted by one of their Hard Shakes next time I am up there. Liverpool is a great town at night.

    This is all a bit of a non-story, reporter speculating on who follows on from Jezzz in a few years time. Must be a slow news day at the Sun.
    I thought Mason was more of an activist these days?
    I am not sure what his employment status is, and his political views have long been a little odd.

    Much respect from me for his Northern Soul documentary, and Keeping the Faith at Wigan Casino:

    https://youtu.be/JMtaEASd2LI

    That documentary was superb - brilliantly informative and also very moving. Sadly, the Scottish woman in it died not that long after it came out.

    I am glad in a way that Mason has been exposed as a cynical hypocrite. I did not want him to be what he has appeared to be over the summer: a total fool.

    I am not sure that a short clip from a long conversation would give the full story. Mason wants the left to retain control the party, and sees Corbyn as a means to that end, accepting that he has significant flaws. Indeed even Jezza himself might agree!

    Middle class media apologists for Corbyn are all playing a game. They have little interest in real life.

  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,709

    The baffling and bizarre thing is that Trump is actually ahead in two tracker polls:
    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2016/white_house_watch_oct13
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/

    I expect it's all over and that he will take a hammering but it's not yet surefire according to the polls.

    Yeah, he's obviously had it, just the odd poll which must be rogue suggesting otherwise #brexit
    Well quite.

    There's a value flutter to be had on Trump: better than buying a lottery ticket anyway.
    Yes, I'd agree with that "the jackpot chance is 1 in 13,983,816 or approximately 1 in 14 million."
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Essexit said:

    The baffling and bizarre thing is that Trump is actually ahead in two tracker polls:
    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2016/white_house_watch_oct13
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/

    I expect it's all over and that he will take a hammering but it's not yet surefire according to the polls.

    Yeah, he's obviously had it, just the odd poll which must be rogue suggesting otherwise #brexit
    Well quite.

    There's a value flutter to be had on Trump: better than buying a lottery ticket anyway.
    Two factors come to mind to make me think this isn't quite over: shy voters (obviously) and Johnson voters defecting at the last minute.
    Most polls on the squeeze from 4 way to 2 way have more 3rd party voters going Clinton than Trump.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,612
    He was forthright but controlled. It is possible to do the two simultaneously without being a bore. Foreign Secretary Boris is doing rather well.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3837146/Diplomatic-Boris-proves-snootocracy-wrong-QUENTIN-LETTS-faultless-display-Foreign-Affairs-Select-Committee.html
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,942
    Fpt:
    scotslass said:

    John Zims

    Scotland without oil included has a GDP just below the UK average and higher than any part of the country except London and the South East. Despite the oil job losses of the last two years it has higher employment and lower unemployment than the UK average. If it stays in the single marketplace while England opts out it shall very quickly be more prosperous'.

    Only in the minds of the London media, zombies in the Q.T audience and of course yourself is if a "basket case". However dont stop saying it because you are helping the cause.

    1) Scotland is leaving the EU
    2) If Scotland left the UK it would be leaving it's biggest market

    Economics, bad enough already, would get worse.

    A basket case would likely become a failed state.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    RobD said:

    Mind you, Mr Mason's restaurant of choice looks authentically working class - Brioche Buns for their chicken burgers (£7 - £9) and beer £4.50/pint.....

    Nought too good for ta werkers....
    "Just your average hipster hang out joint..." (Trip Advisor)
    You have nothing to lose but your pale ale.
    It looks decent enough place to me, not exactly champagne at the Ritz:

    http://www.yardbirdliverpool.com/blank

    Indeed I am quite tempted by one of their Hard Shakes next time I am up there. Liverpool is a great town at night.

    This is all a bit of a non-story, reporter speculating on who follows on from Jezzz in a few years time. Must be a slow news day at the Sun.




    Paul Mason told the working class voters whom he professes to love so much to vote to Remain. He's a less authentic voice on the left than Corbyn.
    Paul Mason is a genuine WWC Northerner, and may well be proven to be correct over Remain.

    Authenticity is in the eye of the beholder and both the Left and the WWC are more nuanced and multifaceted than some on here opine.

    His Northern Soul documentary is not just about great music, it is very insightful about WWC in Britain in the Seventies in the North. Indeed if you really want to see the WWC in all its glory try a Northern Soul Weekender in Skegness. It is not like Shoredich!
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    He was forthright but controlled. It is possible to do the two simultaneously without being a bore. Foreign Secretary Boris is doing rather well.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3837146/Diplomatic-Boris-proves-snootocracy-wrong-QUENTIN-LETTS-faultless-display-Foreign-Affairs-Select-Committee.html

    So should we back Boris to be first out, if he needs puff-pieces like this? 5/1 second favourite behind Liam Fox with Shadsy.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    And why Lewis.. he is a hard left MP acc to his wiki.. is it simply that he is more personable?

    He has not yet proven himself to be as batshit crazy as Corbyn, therefore looks like a better bet. For now.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Mortimer said:

    Fpt:

    scotslass said:

    John Zims

    Scotland without oil included has a GDP just below the UK average and higher than any part of the country except London and the South East. Despite the oil job losses of the last two years it has higher employment and lower unemployment than the UK average. If it stays in the single marketplace while England opts out it shall very quickly be more prosperous'.

    Only in the minds of the London media, zombies in the Q.T audience and of course yourself is if a "basket case". However dont stop saying it because you are helping the cause.

    1) Scotland is leaving the EU
    2) If Scotland left the UK it would be leaving it's biggest market

    Economics, bad enough already, would get worse.

    A basket case would likely become a failed state.
    If Scotland stays in the EU, while rUK goes Hard Brexit, then the Seventies oil boom may be surpassed by the Teenies financial services one.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @jessphillips: I give as much of a toss what Paul Mason said today as I did yesterday or the day before....
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,942

    Mortimer said:

    Fpt:

    scotslass said:

    John Zims

    Scotland without oil included has a GDP just below the UK average and higher than any part of the country except London and the South East. Despite the oil job losses of the last two years it has higher employment and lower unemployment than the UK average. If it stays in the single marketplace while England opts out it shall very quickly be more prosperous'.

    Only in the minds of the London media, zombies in the Q.T audience and of course yourself is if a "basket case". However dont stop saying it because you are helping the cause.

    1) Scotland is leaving the EU
    2) If Scotland left the UK it would be leaving it's biggest market

    Economics, bad enough already, would get worse.

    A basket case would likely become a failed state.
    If Scotland stays in the EU, while rUK goes Hard Brexit, then the Seventies oil boom may be surpassed by the Teenies financial services one.
    Scotland are not staying in the EU.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    If Scotland stays in the EU, while rUK goes Hard Brexit,

    There is no practical, legal or realistic mechanism for that to occur.

    Apart from that...
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181
    Scott_P said:

    And why Lewis.. he is a hard left MP acc to his wiki.. is it simply that he is more personable?

    He has not yet proven himself to be as batshit crazy as Corbyn, therefore looks like a better bet. For now.
    Norwich South Candidate Sorry for Goat Joke:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-england-32337400
  • Options
    HaroldOHaroldO Posts: 1,185
    Mortimer said:

    Fpt:

    scotslass said:

    John Zims

    Scotland without oil included has a GDP just below the UK average and higher than any part of the country except London and the South East. Despite the oil job losses of the last two years it has higher employment and lower unemployment than the UK average. If it stays in the single marketplace while England opts out it shall very quickly be more prosperous'.

    Only in the minds of the London media, zombies in the Q.T audience and of course yourself is if a "basket case". However dont stop saying it because you are helping the cause.

    1) Scotland is leaving the EU
    2) If Scotland left the UK it would be leaving it's biggest market

    Economics, bad enough already, would get worse.

    A basket case would likely become a failed state.
    A bit dramatic, they would have a large deficit for a good few years, the knock on effect of solving it would be pretty bad for a while after that too. Things would readjust in the medium term, but at what level depends on your point of view.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,942

    RobD said:

    Mind you, Mr Mason's restaurant of choice looks authentically working class - Brioche Buns for their chicken burgers (£7 - £9) and beer £4.50/pint.....

    Nought too good for ta werkers....
    "Just your average hipster hang out joint..." (Trip Advisor)
    You have nothing to lose but your pale ale.
    It looks decent enough place to me, not exactly champagne at the Ritz:

    http://www.yardbirdliverpool.com/blank

    Indeed I am quite tempted by one of their Hard Shakes next time I am up there. Liverpool is a great town at night.

    This is all a bit of a non-story, reporter speculating on who follows on from Jezzz in a few years time. Must be a slow news day at the Sun.




    Paul Mason told the working class voters whom he professes to love so much to vote to Remain. He's a less authentic voice on the left than Corbyn.
    Paul Mason is a genuine WWC Northerner, and may well be proven to be correct over Remain.

    Authenticity is in the eye of the beholder and both the Left and the WWC are more nuanced and multifaceted than some on here opine.

    His Northern Soul documentary is not just about great music, it is very insightful about WWC in Britain in the Seventies in the North. Indeed if you really want to see the WWC in all its glory try a Northern Soul Weekender in Skegness. It is not like Shoredich!
    Why is this so hard for people to understand. A hard left Londoner will never win a general election.

    Labour at the moment are 25% behind in southern and midland marginals - as Amol from the Indy said last night.

    And you wait till Labour are painted as wanting to Remaij by the back door. They'll be 45% behind.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,709

    Mortimer said:

    Fpt:

    scotslass said:

    John Zims

    Scotland without oil included has a GDP just below the UK average and higher than any part of the country except London and the South East. Despite the oil job losses of the last two years it has higher employment and lower unemployment than the UK average. If it stays in the single marketplace while England opts out it shall very quickly be more prosperous'.

    Only in the minds of the London media, zombies in the Q.T audience and of course yourself is if a "basket case". However dont stop saying it because you are helping the cause.

    1) Scotland is leaving the EU
    2) If Scotland left the UK it would be leaving it's biggest market

    Economics, bad enough already, would get worse.

    A basket case would likely become a failed state.
    If Scotland stays in the EU, while rUK goes Hard Brexit, then the Seventies oil boom may be surpassed by the Teenies financial services one.
    If Scotland does go independent there is a good case for doing it now. Edinburgh should capture some of the exodus from London. While independence will very hard indeed, Brexit will itself be somewhat crap. At least this way you are concentrating the pain into a shorter period
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Fpt:

    scotslass said:

    John Zims

    Scotland without oil included has a GDP just below the UK average and higher than any part of the country except London and the South East. Despite the oil job losses of the last two years it has higher employment and lower unemployment than the UK average. If it stays in the single marketplace while England opts out it shall very quickly be more prosperous'.

    Only in the minds of the London media, zombies in the Q.T audience and of course yourself is if a "basket case". However dont stop saying it because you are helping the cause.

    1) Scotland is leaving the EU
    2) If Scotland left the UK it would be leaving it's biggest market

    Economics, bad enough already, would get worse.

    A basket case would likely become a failed state.
    If Scotland stays in the EU, while rUK goes Hard Brexit, then the Seventies oil boom may be surpassed by the Teenies financial services one.
    Scotland are not staying in the EU.
    It may depend on whether Sindyref 2 occurs before A50 expires. Quite possible indeed.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Fpt:

    scotslass said:

    John Zims

    Scotland without oil included has a GDP just below the UK average and higher than any part of the country except London and the South East. Despite the oil job losses of the last two years it has higher employment and lower unemployment than the UK average. If it stays in the single marketplace while England opts out it shall very quickly be more prosperous'.

    Only in the minds of the London media, zombies in the Q.T audience and of course yourself is if a "basket case". However dont stop saying it because you are helping the cause.

    1) Scotland is leaving the EU
    2) If Scotland left the UK it would be leaving it's biggest market

    Economics, bad enough already, would get worse.

    A basket case would likely become a failed state.
    If Scotland stays in the EU, while rUK goes Hard Brexit, then the Seventies oil boom may be surpassed by the Teenies financial services one.
    Scotland are not staying in the EU.
    It may depend on whether Sindyref 2 occurs before A50 expires. Quite possible indeed.
    As Barroso explained last time, an independent Scotland would be a new country and not signatory to the Lisbon Treaty. It would have to apply for membership of the EU and it would take at least five years to join.
  • Options

    RobD said:

    Mind you, Mr Mason's restaurant of choice looks authentically working class - Brioche Buns for their chicken burgers (£7 - £9) and beer £4.50/pint.....

    Nought too good for ta werkers....
    "Just your average hipster hang out joint..." (Trip Advisor)
    You have nothing to lose but your pale ale.
    It looks decent enough place to me, not exactly champagne at the Ritz:

    http://www.yardbirdliverpool.com/blank

    Indeed I am quite tempted by one of their Hard Shakes next time I am up there. Liverpool is a great town at night.

    This is all a bit of a non-story, reporter speculating on who follows on from Jezzz in a few years time. Must be a slow news day at the Sun.




    Paul Mason told the working class voters whom he professes to love so much to vote to Remain. He's a less authentic voice on the left than Corbyn.
    Paul Mason is a genuine WWC Northerner, and may well be proven to be correct over Remain.

    Authenticity is in the eye of the beholder and both the Left and the WWC are more nuanced and multifaceted than some on here opine.

    His Northern Soul documentary is not just about great music, it is very insightful about WWC in Britain in the Seventies in the North. Indeed if you really want to see the WWC in all its glory try a Northern Soul Weekender in Skegness. It is not like Shoredich!
    Mason's dad ran a haulage firm and his mum was a headmistress. Genuine WWC Northerner, you bet.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,942

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Fpt:

    scotslass said:

    John Zims

    Scotland without oil included has a GDP just below the UK average and higher than any part of the country except London and the South East. Despite the oil job losses of the last two years it has higher employment and lower unemployment than the UK average. If it stays in the single marketplace while England opts out it shall very quickly be more prosperous'.

    Only in the minds of the London media, zombies in the Q.T audience and of course yourself is if a "basket case". However dont stop saying it because you are helping the cause.

    1) Scotland is leaving the EU
    2) If Scotland left the UK it would be leaving it's biggest market

    Economics, bad enough already, would get worse.

    A basket case would likely become a failed state.
    If Scotland stays in the EU, while rUK goes Hard Brexit, then the Seventies oil boom may be surpassed by the Teenies financial services one.
    Scotland are not staying in the EU.
    It may depend on whether Sindyref 2 occurs before A50 expires. Quite possible indeed.
    Not at all possible.

    Have you heard of a big country called Spain?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,518

    Lord Ashcroft:

    .....analysts agreed that Trump’s chances depended on being able to convince female voters in places like suburban Philadelphia. In what my team claims to be a stoke of strategic and methodological genius, but which I know for a fact to be a fluke, our focus groups this week were with… women voters in suburban Philadelphia.

    http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/10/hes-different-like-a-drunk-uncle-my-us-election-focus-groups-in-philadelphia/

    Very interesting.
    Yes it was. Note the comment of the conservative talk radio guy...

    As a conservative talk show host, Sykes finds this “really bothersome, because for years I’ve been arguing we don’t do this just for the ratings, we actually believe this, we care about this, these things are important to us. And then to watch one after another of some of the leading conservative media figures in America basically go, ‘yeah, we’re not really interested in principles, yes, we’ll peddle these conspiracy theories if it scores points for us.”

    These theories had become one of the most worrying aspects of the campaign. “You have the dark fever-swamps of the right. I am a right-wing talk-show host but there are some serious fever swamps out there, and they traffic in the most bizarre conspiracy theories. And they’re difficult to refute because too many conservative commentators do not want to challenge them. They know that their audiences will believe them.” And the really disturbing thing was that “Donald Trump will see something, some bizarre, unfounded conspiracy theory. And you’re tempted to dismiss is as too far out of the mainstream, and the next thing, Donald Trump, who may be the next president of the United States, is tweeting out links to these kinds of things… How do you deal with somebody who actually doesn’t seem to have a filter, what is true what is false, what is responsible, what is irresponsible?..
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    It may depend on whether Sindyref 2 occurs before A50 expires. Quite possible indeed.

    If that happens, Scotland does not "stay in the EU". It could apply to join as a new member, although it would not meet the criteria.

    Apart from that...
  • Options
    619619 Posts: 1,784

    The baffling and bizarre thing is that Trump is actually ahead in two tracker polls:
    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2016/white_house_watch_oct13
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/

    I expect it's all over and that he will take a hammering but it's not yet surefire according to the polls.

    Well, The LA times tracker and RAS have numerous problems....
  • Options
    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    Mortimer said:

    Fpt:

    scotslass said:

    John Zims

    Scotland without oil included has a GDP just below the UK average and higher than any part of the country except London and the South East. Despite the oil job losses of the last two years it has higher employment and lower unemployment than the UK average. If it stays in the single marketplace while England opts out it shall very quickly be more prosperous'.

    Only in the minds of the London media, zombies in the Q.T audience and of course yourself is if a "basket case". However dont stop saying it because you are helping the cause.

    1) Scotland is leaving the EU
    2) If Scotland left the UK it would be leaving it's biggest market

    Economics, bad enough already, would get worse.

    A basket case would likely become a failed state.
    Sindy = Hard Brexit 2 - Brexit harder?
  • Options
    619619 Posts: 1,784
    Uday Trump says women who cant handle harrassment in the workforce shouldnt work

    https://twitter.com/BuzzFeedNews/status/786769196424105984
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Mortimer said:

    RobD said:

    Mind you, Mr Mason's restaurant of choice looks authentically working class - Brioche Buns for their chicken burgers (£7 - £9) and beer £4.50/pint.....

    Nought too good for ta werkers....
    "Just your average hipster hang out joint..." (Trip Advisor)
    You have nothing to lose but your pale ale.
    It looks decent enough place to me, not exactly champagne at the Ritz:

    http://www.yardbirdliverpool.com/blank

    Indeed I am quite tempted by one of their Hard Shakes next time I am up there. Liverpool is a great town at night.

    This is all a bit of a non-story, reporter speculating on who follows on from Jezzz in a few years time. Must be a slow news day at the Sun.




    Paul Mason told the working class voters whom he professes to love so much to vote to Remain. He's a less authentic voice on the left than Corbyn.
    Paul Mason is a genuine WWC Northerner, and may well be proven to be correct over Remain.

    Authenticity is in the eye of the beholder and both the Left and the WWC are more nuanced and multifaceted than some on here opine.

    His Northern Soul documentary is not just about great music, it is very insightful about WWC in Britain in the Seventies in the North. Indeed if you really want to see the WWC in all its glory try a Northern Soul Weekender in Skegness. It is not like Shoredich!
    Why is this so hard for people to understand. A hard left Londoner will never win a general election.

    Labour at the moment are 25% behind in southern and midland marginals - as Amol from the Indy said last night.

    And you wait till Labour are painted as wanting to Remaij by the back door. They'll be 45% behind.
    I agree that Jezza is a disaster, but I am seeing signs of life returning. Starmer has already started to do a decent job, and I think Ashworth will on Health too.

    If Hard Brexit wrecks the Tory reputation for economic competence, there is a way back. We are not yet in a one party state.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    ydoethur said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Fpt:

    scotslass said:

    John Zims

    Scotland without oil included has a GDP just below the UK average and higher than any part of the country except London and the South East. Despite the oil job losses of the last two years it has higher employment and lower unemployment than the UK average. If it stays in the single marketplace while England opts out it shall very quickly be more prosperous'.

    Only in the minds of the London media, zombies in the Q.T audience and of course yourself is if a "basket case". However dont stop saying it because you are helping the cause.

    1) Scotland is leaving the EU
    2) If Scotland left the UK it would be leaving it's biggest market

    Economics, bad enough already, would get worse.

    A basket case would likely become a failed state.
    If Scotland stays in the EU, while rUK goes Hard Brexit, then the Seventies oil boom may be surpassed by the Teenies financial services one.
    Scotland are not staying in the EU.
    It may depend on whether Sindyref 2 occurs before A50 expires. Quite possible indeed.
    As Barroso explained last time, an independent Scotland would be a new country and not signatory to the Lisbon Treaty. It would have to apply for membership of the EU and it would take at least five years to join.
    No, he said that is what he thought might happen and that there was no definitive answer on what would actually happen until the UK government put the question to the Commission. Which try never did.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Scott_P said:

    It may depend on whether Sindyref 2 occurs before A50 expires. Quite possible indeed.

    If that happens, Scotland does not "stay in the EU". It could apply to join as a new member, although it would not meet the criteria.

    Apart from that...
    That would be at the discretion of the EU not the rUK.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Fpt:

    scotslass said:

    John Zims

    Scotland without oil included has a GDP just below the UK average and higher than any part of the country except London and the South East. Despite the oil job losses of the last two years it has higher employment and lower unemployment than the UK average. If it stays in the single marketplace while England opts out it shall very quickly be more prosperous'.

    Only in the minds of the London media, zombies in the Q.T audience and of course yourself is if a "basket case". However dont stop saying it because you are helping the cause.

    1) Scotland is leaving the EU
    2) If Scotland left the UK it would be leaving it's biggest market

    Economics, bad enough already, would get worse.

    A basket case would likely become a failed state.
    If Scotland stays in the EU, while rUK goes Hard Brexit, then the Seventies oil boom may be surpassed by the Teenies financial services one.
    Scotland are not staying in the EU.
    It may depend on whether Sindyref 2 occurs before A50 expires. Quite possible indeed.
    Not at all possible.

    Have you heard of a big country called Spain?
    Who care about unilateral declarations of independence? I have.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,974
    619 said:

    Uday Trump says women who cant handle harrassment in the workforce shouldnt work

    https://twitter.com/BuzzFeedNews/status/786769196424105984

    Isn’t teaching, including kindergarten, work?

    When you can read this, remember someone taught you how to when you were very young.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,518
    I notice on that Hogan-Howe apologised to Lord Bramall, having said that he had no reason to apologise... and even now the Met still refuses to confirm that the apology happened.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37651594
    One of the worse Met commissioners.
  • Options
    619619 Posts: 1,784

    619 said:

    Uday Trump says women who cant handle harrassment in the workforce shouldnt work

    https://twitter.com/BuzzFeedNews/status/786769196424105984

    Isn’t teaching, including kindergarten, work?

    When you can read this, remember someone taught you how to when you were very young.
    Uday was insinuating teaching isnt part of the workforce, not me
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Alistair said:

    ydoethur said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Fpt:

    scotslass said:

    John Zims

    Scotland without oil included has a GDP just below the UK average and higher than any part of the country except London and the South East. Despite the oil job losses of the last two years it has higher employment and lower unemployment than the UK average. If it stays in the single marketplace while England opts out it shall very quickly be more prosperous'.

    Only in the minds of the London media, zombies in the Q.T audience and of course yourself is if a "basket case". However dont stop saying it because you are helping the cause.

    1) Scotland is leaving the EU
    2) If Scotland left the UK it would be leaving it's biggest market

    Economics, bad enough already, would get worse.

    A basket case would likely become a failed state.
    If Scotland stays in the EU, while rUK goes Hard Brexit, then the Seventies oil boom may be surpassed by the Teenies financial services one.
    Scotland are not staying in the EU.
    It may depend on whether Sindyref 2 occurs before A50 expires. Quite possible indeed.
    As Barroso explained last time, an independent Scotland would be a new country and not signatory to the Lisbon Treaty. It would have to apply for membership of the EU and it would take at least five years to join.
    No, he said that is what he thought might happen and that there was no definitive answer on what would actually happen until the UK government put the question to the Commission. Which try never did.
    Or there could be a hybrid Soft Exit Devo-Max Scotland (+/- NI) and Hard Brexit England and Wales Brexit, with Scotland and NI joining the EEA with us out. It would be an ideal fudge in many ways, respecting the wishes of all 4 nations voters, and at least nominally preserving the Union.
  • Options
    Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632
    edited October 2016

    Lord Ashcroft:

    .....analysts agreed that Trump’s chances depended on being able to convince female voters in places like suburban Philadelphia. In what my team claims to be a stoke of strategic and methodological genius, but which I know for a fact to be a fluke, our focus groups this week were with… women voters in suburban Philadelphia.

    http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/10/hes-different-like-a-drunk-uncle-my-us-election-focus-groups-in-philadelphia/

    Ouch: Heuston Hillary has a problem:

    "None of the [female, suburban Philadeplphia] Trump supporters we spoke to had been put off by this latest story. A few dismissed it as a non-story (“everybody talks like that when they’re with other people”). More often, they acknowledged his flaws (“there’s an art to communicating with people, and I don’t think he’s quite mastered that art”; “he’s different like a drunk uncle”), but returned to the point that the election was a choice between two imperfect alternatives: “I wish he was a different man, but he’s not. But I don’t want another career politician. I want change, and Trump is going to bring change;” “I think Trump’s an idiot, I don’t think he has the capability to be a good president at all. I just think he’s slightly less awful than Hillary.”

  • Options

    The NYT tells Trump to Foxtrot Oscar:

    We did what the law allows: We published newsworthy information about a subject of deep public concern. If Mr. Trump disagrees, if he believes that American citizens had no right to hear what these women had to say and that the law of this country forces us and those who would dare to criticize him to stand silent or be punished, we welcome the opportunity to have a court set him straight.

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/10/13/us/politics/david-mccraw-trump-letter.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0

    I always find the US law very confusing. National Enquirer can print nonsense every week with seemingly no recourse, Hulk Hogan can sue Gawker for $100+ million for exposing something that actually happened.
    The US takes a different approach on libel to the UK. Due to the First Amendment guaranteeing freedom of speech any public figure taking action for libel against the press has to prove they acted out of malice. This makes it very difficult for public figures to win a libel claim against the US press. It is a little easier for private individuals who only have to prove that the press acted negligently. The UK press would like to enjoy similar protection, hence their occasional complaints about the burden of proof being reversed in libel cases (it isn't) and references to the UK's "restrictive libel laws".

    With the National Enquirer specifically, there is the additional factor that many celebrities will work on the basis that most people don't believe what it prints anyway so taking action will simply give further publicity to the allegations.

    The Gawker case was not about libel. It was predominantly about invasion of privacy. The decision is controversial in the US on First Amendment grounds but the UK courts would probably have come to the same conclusion.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,518

    Lord Ashcroft:

    .....analysts agreed that Trump’s chances depended on being able to convince female voters in places like suburban Philadelphia. In what my team claims to be a stoke of strategic and methodological genius, but which I know for a fact to be a fluke, our focus groups this week were with… women voters in suburban Philadelphia.

    http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/10/hes-different-like-a-drunk-uncle-my-us-election-focus-groups-in-philadelphia/

    Ouch: Heuston Hillary has a problem:

    "None of the [female, suburban Philadeplphia] Trump supporters we spoke to had been put off by this latest story. A few dismissed it as a non-story (“everybody talks like that when they’re with other people”). More often, they acknowledged his flaws (“there’s an art to communicating with people, and I don’t think he’s quite mastered that art”; “he’s different like a drunk uncle”), but returned to the point that the election was a choice between two imperfect alternatives: “I wish he was a different man, but he’s not. But I don’t want another career politician. I want change, and Trump is going to bring change;” “I think Trump’s an idiot, I don’t think he has the capability to be a good president at all. I just think he’s slightly less awful than Hillary.”

    Why, because people who weren't going to vote for her still aren't ?
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    scotslassscotslass Posts: 912
    Seems like the usual crew of hard Brexit posters haven't caught up with the new reality, There is no clout left for the UK in Europe and plenty of support for Scotland's position.

    This is a total sea change from 2 years ago. Also while the three Brexiteers have been busy insulting any European who comes to hand Sturgeon et co have been engaged in pretty extensive diplomacy.

    It is easy enough to track where Sturgeon, Salmond, Robertson, Russell and Hyslop have been in recent weeks from public statements. The returns from that work will soon be clear enough.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    The NYT tells Trump to Foxtrot Oscar:

    We did what the law allows: We published newsworthy information about a subject of deep public concern. If Mr. Trump disagrees, if he believes that American citizens had no right to hear what these women had to say and that the law of this country forces us and those who would dare to criticize him to stand silent or be punished, we welcome the opportunity to have a court set him straight.

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/10/13/us/politics/david-mccraw-trump-letter.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0

    I always find the US law very confusing. National Enquirer can print nonsense every week with seemingly no recourse, Hulk Hogan can sue Gawker for $100+ million for exposing something that actually happened.
    The US takes a different approach on libel to the UK. Due to the First Amendment guaranteeing freedom of speech any public figure taking action for libel against the press has to prove they acted out of malice. This makes it very difficult for public figures to win a libel claim against the US press. It is a little easier for private individuals who only have to prove that the press acted negligently. The UK press would like to enjoy similar protection, hence their occasional complaints about the burden of proof being reversed in libel cases (it isn't) and references to the UK's "restrictive libel laws".

    With the National Enquirer specifically, there is the additional factor that many celebrities will work on the basis that most people don't believe what it prints anyway so taking action will simply give further publicity to the allegations.

    The Gawker case was not about libel. It was predominantly about invasion of privacy. The decision is controversial in the US on First Amendment grounds but the UK courts would probably have come to the same conclusion.
    It is also why so many of the anti-Clinton memes (and anti-Trump too) can circulate.

    America has a lot more free expression than us, though this election seems to be a race to the bottom (literally in the case of Trumps hands!)

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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181
    Alistair said:

    ydoethur said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Fpt:

    scotslass said:

    John Zims

    Scotland without oil included has a GDP just below the UK average and higher than any part of the country except London and the South East. Despite the oil job losses of the last two years it has higher employment and lower unemployment than the UK average. If it stays in the single marketplace while England opts out it shall very quickly be more prosperous'.

    Only in the minds of the London media, zombies in the Q.T audience and of course yourself is if a "basket case". However dont stop saying it because you are helping the cause.

    1) Scotland is leaving the EU
    2) If Scotland left the UK it would be leaving it's biggest market

    Economics, bad enough already, would get worse.

    A basket case would likely become a failed state.
    If Scotland stays in the EU, while rUK goes Hard Brexit, then the Seventies oil boom may be surpassed by the Teenies financial services one.
    Scotland are not staying in the EU.
    It may depend on whether Sindyref 2 occurs before A50 expires. Quite possible indeed.
    As Barroso explained last time, an independent Scotland would be a new country and not signatory to the Lisbon Treaty. It would have to apply for membership of the EU and it would take at least five years to join.
    No, he said that is what he thought might happen and that there was no definitive answer on what would actually happen until the UK government put the question to the Commission. Which try never did.
    I am afraid you are simply wrong:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26215963

    I think in your case wish has proven father to the thought.

    Have a good weekend everyone.
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,942
    scotslass said:

    Seems like the usual crew of hard Brexit posters haven't caught up with the new reality, There is no clout left for the UK in Europe and plenty of support for Scotland's position.

    This is a total sea change from 2 years ago. Also while the three Brexiteers have been busy insulting any European who comes to hand Sturgeon et co have been engaged in pretty extensive diplomacy.

    It is easy enough to track where Sturgeon, Salmond, Robertson, Russell and Hyslop have been in recent weeks from public statements. The returns from that work will soon be clear enough.

    The new reality is that Brexit has sidelined the SNP in UK wide politics. Theresa will be rewarded for this st the next general election....

    If you realised the levels of antipathy toward the SNP in the rest of the country, you'd get why.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,052
    Mortimer said:

    scotslass said:

    Seems like the usual crew of hard Brexit posters haven't caught up with the new reality, There is no clout left for the UK in Europe and plenty of support for Scotland's position.

    This is a total sea change from 2 years ago. Also while the three Brexiteers have been busy insulting any European who comes to hand Sturgeon et co have been engaged in pretty extensive diplomacy.

    It is easy enough to track where Sturgeon, Salmond, Robertson, Russell and Hyslop have been in recent weeks from public statements. The returns from that work will soon be clear enough.

    The new reality is that Brexit has sidelined the SNP in UK wide politics. Theresa will be rewarded for this st the next general election....

    If you realised the levels of antipathy toward the SNP in the rest of the country, you'd get why.
    If you realised that this attitude plays into the hands of the Scottish nationalists, you'd get why Brexit will inevitably break up the UK.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Good morning, everyone.

    Don't normally share fundraisers, but someone I know online has one up for a lawyer retainer necessary for the father of her nieces to file for custody. Her nieces have been sexually abused by their mother's boyfriend, and the mother's doing nothing to stop it, despite knowing.

    So, if anyone put a pound or two on the Verstappen tip, or has a bundle of cash, do give what you can:
    https://www.gofundme.com/help-my-nieces-stay-safe-2u8uwes
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Scexit is a real possibility. People need to deal with it.
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    scotslass said:

    Seems like the usual crew of hard Brexit posters haven't caught up with the new reality, There is no clout left for the UK in Europe and plenty of support for Scotland's position.

    This is a total sea change from 2 years ago. Also while the three Brexiteers have been busy insulting any European who comes to hand Sturgeon et co have been engaged in pretty extensive diplomacy.

    It is easy enough to track where Sturgeon, Salmond, Robertson, Russell and Hyslop have been in recent weeks from public statements. The returns from that work will soon be clear enough.

    The SNP has lost its rebel glamour after Brexit. Salmond flopped while Farage triumphed. The dogs bark but the caravan moves on.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Jonathan said:

    Scexit is a real possibility. People need to deal with it.

    That is true, but not what has been suggested thus far.

    Scexit while "staying in the EU" is not feasible. Scexit outside the EU is perfectly possible. Insane, but that is not a barrier these days.
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    mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    Mortimer said:

    Fpt:

    scotslass said:

    John Zims

    Scotland without oil included has a GDP just below the UK average and higher than any part of the country except London and the South East. Despite the oil job losses of the last two years it has higher employment and lower unemployment than the UK average. If it stays in the single marketplace while England opts out it shall very quickly be more prosperous'.

    Only in the minds of the London media, zombies in the Q.T audience and of course yourself is if a "basket case". However dont stop saying it because you are helping the cause.

    1) Scotland is leaving the EU
    2) If Scotland left the UK it would be leaving it's biggest market

    Economics, bad enough already, would get worse.

    A basket case would likely become a failed state.
    If Scotland stays in the EU, while rUK goes Hard Brexit, then the Seventies oil boom may be surpassed by the Teenies financial services one.
    And given state size to financial services size any significant failure would destroy the state. See Iceland.
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    mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    HaroldO said:

    Mortimer said:

    Fpt:

    scotslass said:

    John Zims

    Scotland without oil included has a GDP just below the UK average and higher than any part of the country except London and the South East. Despite the oil job losses of the last two years it has higher employment and lower unemployment than the UK average. If it stays in the single marketplace while England opts out it shall very quickly be more prosperous'.

    Only in the minds of the London media, zombies in the Q.T audience and of course yourself is if a "basket case". However dont stop saying it because you are helping the cause.

    1) Scotland is leaving the EU
    2) If Scotland left the UK it would be leaving it's biggest market

    Economics, bad enough already, would get worse.

    A basket case would likely become a failed state.
    A bit dramatic, they would have a large deficit for a good few years, the knock on effect of solving it would be pretty bad for a while after that too. Things would readjust in the medium term, but at what level depends on your point of view.
    Would they be a net contributor to the EU budget? I suspect they would and that might be something of a shock.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    On-topic: et tu, Mason?

    Chairman Corbyn will not tolerate this disloyalty from the non-person Mason. Clearly his days at the rightwing rabble-rousing BBC has corrupted his commitment to the proletariat.

    No matter! A few short decades at the Siberian Educational Correction and Mining Facility will remind non-person Mason of Chairman Corbyn's limitless merit!
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    RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,977

    scotslass said:

    Seems like the usual crew of hard Brexit posters haven't caught up with the new reality, There is no clout left for the UK in Europe and plenty of support for Scotland's position.

    This is a total sea change from 2 years ago. Also while the three Brexiteers have been busy insulting any European who comes to hand Sturgeon et co have been engaged in pretty extensive diplomacy.

    It is easy enough to track where Sturgeon, Salmond, Robertson, Russell and Hyslop have been in recent weeks from public statements. The returns from that work will soon be clear enough.

    The SNP has lost its rebel glamour after Brexit. Salmond flopped while Farage triumphed. The dogs bark but the caravan moves on.

    Absolutely. The SNP, in all honesty, share striking similarities to those advocating hard brexit at any cost - why else would you prioritise a market where you send 15% of your exports against one where you send 60%. Again coupled with the currency issue, budget deficit...

    I also wonder if the SNPs judgement comes into play here - the white paper at the last ref was totally and utterly farcicial in terms of its predictions.
This discussion has been closed.