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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Mrs May must be hoping that the Tories do better in Thursday’s

SystemSystem Posts: 11,007
edited October 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Mrs May must be hoping that the Tories do better in Thursday’s Witney contest than in recent local by elections

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  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited October 2016
    I hope the Tory majority is slashed.

    First, like Lib Dems
  • Options
    PaulyPauly Posts: 897
    edited October 2016
    That former CON MEP is a TINO. As is TSE. At least Mike knows he's yellow on the inside.
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,703
    Pauly said:

    That former CON MEP is a TINO. As is TSE. At least Mike knows he's yellow on the inside.

    Not even in name. Didn't he defect to the LibDems ages ago?
  • Options
    My parents are life long Lib Dems living near seat. They have been campaigning as much as they can. The Lib Dems have got their enthusiasm back at the grass roots and they will have a good result. My parents doubt the Lib Dems can win but expect a massive reduction in the majority.

    This seat is not a hard core Brexit seat and there is the Cameron factor. He is well liked and has not been active campaigning. The local tories have little enthusiasm for the battle which they see as being TM's fault.

  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,845
    Wiki says he's a yellow turncoat EU fan.
  • Options
    On thing you can say is that the Lib Dems are not managing down expectations here.
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,703

    On thing you can say is that the Lib Dems are not managing down expectations here.

    They'll want to make it clear locally that 'it's a 2 horse race'.
    However, to come from 4th position and 6.8% to beat a Tory on 60% must be too high a mountain, mustn't it?
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Pesky Russians

    Wikileaks
    Alleged hacker arrested over WikiLeaks publications of CIA chief's emails. A 16 year old boy in the UK. https://t.co/qNgYQ9KHbG
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    FPT

    A 1946 academic survey of benzedrine, including its use by the allies in the second world war (150 tablets issued to British and American forces).
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2478360/pdf/postmedj00645-0004.pdf
  • Options

    On thing you can say is that the Lib Dems are not managing down expectations here.

    They'll want to make it clear locally that 'it's a 2 horse race'.
    However, to come from 4th position and 6.8% to beat a Tory on 60% must be too high a mountain, mustn't it?
    Knock off 15% for no incumbent when precious incumbent was both party leader and PM.
    Plus it's a by election.
    Plus Brexit.
    Plus potentially low turnout.

    Anything is possible.
  • Options
    PaulyPauly Posts: 897
    edited October 2016

    Pauly said:

    That former CON MEP is a TINO. As is TSE. At least Mike knows he's yellow on the inside.

    Not even in name. Didn't he defect to the LibDems ages ago?
    Deceitful to put "Like many lifelong Conservatives". The liberal democrats are clearly employing despicable tactics. Especially since he was expelled from the party over the creation of the ECR grouping. A fanatical federalist seeking to overturn the referendum result.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    Pauly said:

    That former CON MEP is a TINO. As is TSE. At least Mike knows he's yellow on the inside.

    Not even in name. Didn't he defect to the LibDems ages ago?
    Yes. He was upset that the Conservatives withdrawing from the EPP would have meant he had to give up a position within the EP. After being elected as a Conservative in the 2009 elections, he immediately stood against the Conservatives' (and ECR's) nominee in the EP election for vice-president and won. For that, he was expelled from the party and he subsequently joined the Lib Dems.
  • Options
    FPT

    The Nissan thing is deeply depressing. I can't believe that post-Brexit a Tory government has been reduced to picking winners 1970s style. May is the Tories' Sunny Jim.

    Please provide a link to the facts of what has been promised to Nissan that is not also available to other car manufacturers operating here or considering manufacturing here. Ideally not the Remainiacs at the FT.
    It's in the Mail! You don't have to be a soothsayer to see what May is driving at:

    This Government is committed to creating and supporting the right conditions for the automotive industry to go from strength to strength in the UK, now and into the future. [...]
    We will continue to work with Nissan as we develop the environment for competitiveness of the automotive industry here in the UK to ensure its success.


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3838315/Nissan-boss-voices-confidence-post-Brexit-Britain-competitive-place-business-crunch-talks-PM-future-Sunderland-plant.html

    'right conditions', 'environment for competitiveness' - the unadulterated language of Bennite interventionism. I can't see the controversy. Surely this is in line with May's statist instincts?
    That's very vague to be getting annoyed at. Surely it depends what those right conditions are?

    Subsidies and interventionist is Bennite.

    Low taxes and a competitive environment is Tory.
  • Options

    Pauly said:

    That former CON MEP is a TINO. As is TSE. At least Mike knows he's yellow on the inside.

    Not even in name. Didn't he defect to the LibDems ages ago?
    Yes. He was upset that the Conservatives withdrawing from the EPP would have meant he had to give up a position within the EP. After being elected as a Conservative in the 2009 elections, he immediately stood against the Conservatives' (and ECR's) nominee in the EP election for vice-president and won. For that, he was expelled from the party and he subsequently joined the Lib Dems.
    So he's been a Lib Dem for seven years but is a lifelong Tory and wants Tories to "lend" their vote as it's a by election and May has changed direction?

    I guess it's not just dodgy bar charts anymore.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    And more

    http://wearechange.org/wikileaks-sources-face-serious-charges-following-cia-fbi-dhs-hacks/

    More Russians. Seriously, those swallowing this stuff need a pinch

    Andrew Otto Boggs, 22, and Justin Gray Liverman, 24, were extradited to Virginia to appear at an Alexandria District Court. Despite the allegations that they belonged to the same hacker group, and the fact that they live so close together, the two men did not know each other offline.

    The duo is accused of being part of the hacking group “Crackas With Attitude,” which allegedly social-engineered access to Clapper’s personal email, home telephone and internet account, as well as his wife’s Yahoo email account.

    At least three other members of the group, located in the United Kingdom, are currently under investigation by the Crown Prosecution Service. Two, a 16-year-old and a 15-year-old, were arrested earlier this year but have not been identified, as they are minors. One of the minors went by the alias “Cracka,” and is alleged to have been behind the bulk of the breaches.
  • Options
    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    On thing you can say is that the Lib Dems are not managing down expectations here.

    They'll want to make it clear locally that 'it's a 2 horse race'.
    However, to come from 4th position and 6.8% to beat a Tory on 60% must be too high a mountain, mustn't it?
    Knock off 15% for no incumbent when precious incumbent was both party leader and PM.
    Plus it's a by election.
    Plus Brexit.
    Plus potentially low turnout.

    Anything is possible.
    Much as I'd like to think so it is a very hard ask. 43% is a massive majority even taking into account incumbency and the fact that he was PM.

    I think the LDs would be delighted to get in the 20s & smash LAB
  • Options
    "Not even in name. Didn't he defect to the LibDems ages ago?"

    He joined the Lib/Dems in March 2010 after having been expelled from the Conservatives in 2009 for standing against the candidate nominated by the party in an election within the European Parliament. So he has been a Lib/Dem since well before the Brexit referendum, was even promised and for reasons unrelated to those in his letter.

    Hence he is not telling the truth when he claims to have been a Conservative MEP up to 2010 and it is misleading to infer that he is a lifelong Conservative.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    PlatoSaid said:

    Pesky Russians

    Wikileaks
    Alleged hacker arrested over WikiLeaks publications of CIA chief's emails. A 16 year old boy in the UK. https://t.co/qNgYQ9KHbG

    Must be related to Putin.
  • Options
    PaulyPauly Posts: 897

    "Not even in name. Didn't he defect to the LibDems ages ago?"

    He joined the Lib/Dems in March 2010 after having been expelled from the Conservatives in 2009 for standing against the candidate nominated by the party in an election within the European Parliament. So he has been a Lib/Dem since well before the Brexit referendum, was even promised and for reasons unrelated to those in his letter.

    Hence he is not telling the truth when he claims to have been a Conservative MEP up to 2010 and it is misleading to infer that he is a lifelong Conservative.

    Is this legal? Serious question.
  • Options
    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,202
    I anticipate a very strong showing by LD, but think the Tories will hold by about 2000
  • Options
    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,202
    Pauly said:

    Pauly said:

    That former CON MEP is a TINO. As is TSE. At least Mike knows he's yellow on the inside.

    Not even in name. Didn't he defect to the LibDems ages ago?
    Deceitful to put "Like many lifelong Conservatives". The liberal democrats are clearly employing despicable tactics. Especially since he was expelled from the party over the creation of the ECR grouping. A fanatical federalist seeking to overturn the referendum result.
    After the out campaign, deceitful and despicable is fully the plat du jour. More power to their elbow.
  • Options

    On thing you can say is that the Lib Dems are not managing down expectations here.

    They'll want to make it clear locally that 'it's a 2 horse race'.
    However, to come from 4th position and 6.8% to beat a Tory on 60% must be too high a mountain, mustn't it?
    Knock off 15% for no incumbent when precious incumbent was both party leader and PM.
    Plus it's a by election.
    Plus Brexit.
    Plus potentially low turnout.

    Anything is possible.
    Much as I'd like to think so it is a very hard ask. 43% is a massive majority even taking into account incumbency and the fact that he was PM.

    I think the LDs would be delighted to get in the 20s & smash LAB
    The expectations management of people like Mr Senior here is talking about LDs in the 30s if not winning. 20s and smashing Labour ought to be a good result but I wonder if it might not seem anticlymatic after some of the hype recently.
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024

    I anticipate a very strong showing by LD, but think the Tories will hold by about 2000

    More like 5,000 I think.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,845
    edited October 2016
    Pauly said:

    "Not even in name. Didn't he defect to the LibDems ages ago?"

    He joined the Lib/Dems in March 2010 after having been expelled from the Conservatives in 2009 for standing against the candidate nominated by the party in an election within the European Parliament. So he has been a Lib/Dem since well before the Brexit referendum, was even promised and for reasons unrelated to those in his letter.

    Hence he is not telling the truth when he claims to have been a Conservative MEP up to 2010 and it is misleading to infer that he is a lifelong Conservative.

    Is this legal? Serious question.
    Whether it's legal or not would be determined by a court following a complaint. They're probably relying on no-one making that complaint.

    It's certainly very misleading though, but that's SOP for the Lib Dem by-election team.
  • Options
    'The kind of compassionate Conservatism championed by David Cameron"

    from the man who joined the LibDems while David Cameron was Conservative leader.

    It should be remembered Edward McMillan-Scott was quite happy to be a Conservative under the leadership of Thatcher, Major, Hague, Duncan-Smith and Howard.

  • Options

    'The kind of compassionate Conservatism championed by David Cameron"

    from the man who joined the LibDems while David Cameron was Conservative leader.

    It should be remembered Edward McMillan-Scott was quite happy to be a Conservative under the leadership of Thatcher, Major, Hague, Duncan-Smith and Howard.

    From a man who left the Tories while David Cameron was Leader of the Opposition in fact.

    Shameful dishonesty.
  • Options
    PaulyPauly Posts: 897
    edited October 2016

    Pauly said:

    Pauly said:

    That former CON MEP is a TINO. As is TSE. At least Mike knows he's yellow on the inside.

    Not even in name. Didn't he defect to the LibDems ages ago?
    Deceitful to put "Like many lifelong Conservatives". The liberal democrats are clearly employing despicable tactics. Especially since he was expelled from the party over the creation of the ECR grouping. A fanatical federalist seeking to overturn the referendum result.
    After the out campaign, deceitful and despicable is fully the plat du jour. More power to their elbow.
    With respect, 3 million jobs lost, £4,900 pounds per person, pretending we aren't throwing money at Turkey or accelerating their accession (such as visa liberalisation that analysts still expect to come in the next few months [https://www.euractiv.com/section/justice-home-affairs/news/experts-expect-visa-liberalisation-for-turkey-by-early-2017/]
    Not to mention lying over the binding nature of Cameron's negotiation on the ability of the European Parliament or ECJ to demean it after the vote.

    There is a difference between lying about the issues and misrepresenting your opponent though. Is posting fake leaflets of your opposition MP candidate legal? This verges on that effectively.
  • Options
    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699

    On thing you can say is that the Lib Dems are not managing down expectations here.

    They'll want to make it clear locally that 'it's a 2 horse race'.
    However, to come from 4th position and 6.8% to beat a Tory on 60% must be too high a mountain, mustn't it?
    Knock off 15% for no incumbent when precious incumbent was both party leader and PM.
    Plus it's a by election.
    Plus Brexit.
    Plus potentially low turnout.

    Anything is possible.
    Much as I'd like to think so it is a very hard ask. 43% is a massive majority even taking into account incumbency and the fact that he was PM.

    I think the LDs would be delighted to get in the 20s & smash LAB
    The expectations management of people like Mr Senior here is talking about LDs in the 30s if not winning. 20s and smashing Labour ought to be a good result but I wonder if it might not seem anticlymatic after some of the hype recently.
    My forecast has consistently been LDs to get 28% . I always hope for better though .
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited October 2016
    Lib Dem's in dodgy by-election stunt....only thing missing from the letter is an infamous bar chart.
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    surbiton said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Pesky Russians

    Wikileaks
    Alleged hacker arrested over WikiLeaks publications of CIA chief's emails. A 16 year old boy in the UK. https://t.co/qNgYQ9KHbG

    Must be related to Putin.
    That story is nearly as old as Putin -- it is from February.
  • Options

    On thing you can say is that the Lib Dems are not managing down expectations here.

    They'll want to make it clear locally that 'it's a 2 horse race'.
    However, to come from 4th position and 6.8% to beat a Tory on 60% must be too high a mountain, mustn't it?
    Knock off 15% for no incumbent when precious incumbent was both party leader and PM.
    Plus it's a by election.
    Plus Brexit.
    Plus potentially low turnout.

    Anything is possible.
    Much as I'd like to think so it is a very hard ask. 43% is a massive majority even taking into account incumbency and the fact that he was PM.

    I think the LDs would be delighted to get in the 20s & smash LAB
    The expectations management of people like Mr Senior here is talking about LDs in the 30s if not winning. 20s and smashing Labour ought to be a good result but I wonder if it might not seem anticlymatic after some of the hype recently.
    My forecast has consistently been LDs to get 28% . I always hope for better though .
    If it's 21% then that's not going to seem so great then even though it would be a big step forward from where it was.
  • Options
    JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    edited October 2016
    Is it right to even compare random, and utterly inconsequential council seats, to a parliamentary by-election? Is there any evidence that the Limp Dims are breaking through in national voting polling figures? I haven't seen any real evidence. What I have seen is a good dose of hyperbole, wishful thinking and borderline hysteria from one or two Dims right here on this forum.
  • Options
    "Is this legal? Serious question."

    It's a legitimate question but I would have thought it unlikely that an election court would quash an election over something like that because he isn't lying about a rival candidate.

    Both the two recent cases where an election was quashed because the successful candidate or his/her campaign were proved to have lied were for serious false allegations against the main rival candidate - IIRC false accusations of being a paedophile in one case, not living in the constituency and stirring up racial hatred in the other.

    However, in Alistair Carmichael's case, where he admitted that he had lied by claiming not to have seen a report that Nicola Sturgeon had told the French Ambassador that she wanted the Tories to win the 2015 election when in fact he was the person who authorised leaking it, the court let him off. Had he lied about his SNP opponent, or if the report had been fabricated, he probably would not have, but as it did exist and he essentially only lied about his own role in leaking it, he got away with it.

    Comparing the seriousness of the relevant porkies, if they let Carmichael off I can't see that they would quash the election if the Lib/Dems won over a one-year error in the date on which EMS ceased to by a Conservative or over a misleading inference designed to give the impression - without quite stating - that he is a lifelong Conservative.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,921

    On thing you can say is that the Lib Dems are not managing down expectations here.

    They'll want to make it clear locally that 'it's a 2 horse race'.
    However, to come from 4th position and 6.8% to beat a Tory on 60% must be too high a mountain, mustn't it?
    Knock off 15% for no incumbent when precious incumbent was both party leader and PM.
    Plus it's a by election.
    Plus Brexit.
    Plus potentially low turnout.

    Anything is possible.
    Much as I'd like to think so it is a very hard ask. 43% is a massive majority even taking into account incumbency and the fact that he was PM.

    I think the LDs would be delighted to get in the 20s & smash LAB
    The expectations management of people like Mr Senior here is talking about LDs in the 30s if not winning. 20s and smashing Labour ought to be a good result but I wonder if it might not seem anticlymatic after some of the hype recently.
    My forecast has consistently been LDs to get 28% . I always hope for better though .
    If it's 21% then that's not going to seem so great then even though it would be a big step forward from where it was.
    I forecast low 20s for the LibDems - which would be a good performance.

    Given the amount of effort they've put into this, they really need to be at least 10% up on their GE score.

    And to really claim a success, I think they need to be at or around Mark's forecast.
  • Options
    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699

    On thing you can say is that the Lib Dems are not managing down expectations here.

    They'll want to make it clear locally that 'it's a 2 horse race'.
    However, to come from 4th position and 6.8% to beat a Tory on 60% must be too high a mountain, mustn't it?
    Knock off 15% for no incumbent when precious incumbent was both party leader and PM.
    Plus it's a by election.
    Plus Brexit.
    Plus potentially low turnout.

    Anything is possible.
    Much as I'd like to think so it is a very hard ask. 43% is a massive majority even taking into account incumbency and the fact that he was PM.

    I think the LDs would be delighted to get in the 20s & smash LAB
    The expectations management of people like Mr Senior here is talking about LDs in the 30s if not winning. 20s and smashing Labour ought to be a good result but I wonder if it might not seem anticlymatic after some of the hype recently.
    My forecast has consistently been LDs to get 28% . I always hope for better though .
    If it's 21% then that's not going to seem so great then even though it would be a big step forward from where it was.
    I agree .
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    And another

    Wikileaks

    Retweeted WikiLeaks (@wikileaks):

    RELEASE: The Podesta Emails Part 8 https://t.co/z9dttjm8Lh #HillaryClinton... https://t.co/ShV7z0HyfX
  • Options
    AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    edited October 2016
    FPT:


    Let when is it a poll that has HRC at, let's say, +7%, there is no questioning of its methodology and it is treated as the Gold Standard, even when there is no detail on their crosstabs.

    Fair point. However, you have Fox Clinton+7, Wall St Jnl +9, Ipsos +7, YouGov +6, SM +5, Quinnipac +5, and any number of state polls consistent with these figures. When Rasmussen is a persistent outlier with a history of leaning towards Republicans, you have to raise an eyebrow.

    Anyway, no need to ignore them. 538 have Clinton+6.3, RCP +5.3, and Huffpo +7.9 (although remove openly partisan pollsters from the latter and you get +5.5). All a fairly consistent picture.

    Also, look at the NBC/SM giant poll, with 25k or so polled for 1.0% MoE: +5 +6 +5 +5 +2 +4 +4 +5 +6 +6. This week's one comes out on Monday iirc.
  • Options
    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Jason said:

    Is it right to even compare random, and utterly inconsequential council seats, to a parliamentary by-election? Is there any evidence that the Limp Dims are breaking through in national voting polling figures? I haven't seen any real evidence. What I have seen is a good dose of hyperbole, wishful thinking and borderline hysteria from one or two Dims right here on this forum.

    The use of Limp and Dims in your post says much about your IQ
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,222
    There is certainly no lack of effort. By lunchtime today I had received an email telling me about the coach to Witney tomorrow, another telling me how I can make phone calls to canvass Witney voters, and a third telling me how I can donate to the costs of the campaign.
  • Options
    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,214
    edited October 2016
    The LibDems will poll well over 30%...and I honestly wouldn't rule out a gain. Seriously.

    As for McMillan-Scott...he truly is the ghastliest of the ghastly. He should have been de-selected in 2009 but the Tories nationally insisted that incumbent MEPs were guaranteed top places on the regional lists.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,289
    edited October 2016
    From what I've heard, I wouldn't be surprised at a Lib Dem gain. Sir Patrick McLoughlin isn't impressing as Party Chairman.

    Dave has been forced to do some more campaigning in the seat, he's really popular in the seat.

    And the less said about the Lib Dem Edward MacMillan-Scott the better.
  • Options
    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,214
    Not for the first time the King of the North and the Sage of the South are in full accord.

    (Now about Mrs May.....)
  • Options
    JohnO said:

    Not for the first time the King of the North and the Sage of the South are in full accord.

    (Now about Mrs May.....)

    Hah, I did a Populus poll at lunchtime, one of the questions was I was satisfied or dissatisfied with the way the unelected PM Mrs May was doing her job,.

    This was my response.

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/787311343250571264
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,023

    From what I've heard, I wouldn't be surprised at a Lib Dem gain. Sir Patrick McLoughlin isn't impressing as Party Chairman.

    Dave has been forced to do some more campaigning in the seat, he's really popular in the seat.

    And the less said about the Lib Dem Edward MacMillan-Scott the better.

    A vote for the Lib Dems is a vote for Cameron's golden period in the coalition.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,969
    Good afternoon, every one.
  • Options

    Pauly said:

    That former CON MEP is a TINO. As is TSE. At least Mike knows he's yellow on the inside.

    Not even in name. Didn't he defect to the LibDems ages ago?
    Yes. He was upset that the Conservatives withdrawing from the EPP would have meant he had to give up a position within the EP. After being elected as a Conservative in the 2009 elections, he immediately stood against the Conservatives' (and ECR's) nominee in the EP election for vice-president and won. For that, he was expelled from the party and he subsequently joined the Lib Dems.
    A total sleaze ball, what one on PB would call a Treacherous Pig Dog
  • Options
    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,214

    JohnO said:

    Not for the first time the King of the North and the Sage of the South are in full accord.

    (Now about Mrs May.....)

    Hah, I did a Populus poll at lunchtime, one of the questions was I was satisfied or dissatisfied with the way the unelected PM Mrs May was doing her job,.

    This was my response.

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/787311343250571264
    We are not amused. My office. Tomorrow. 8.00am. Interview. No coffee.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,222
    edited October 2016

    On thing you can say is that the Lib Dems are not managing down expectations here.

    They'll want to make it clear locally that 'it's a 2 horse race'.
    However, to come from 4th position and 6.8% to beat a Tory on 60% must be too high a mountain, mustn't it?
    Knock off 15% for no incumbent when precious incumbent was both party leader and PM.
    Plus it's a by election.
    Plus Brexit.
    Plus potentially low turnout.

    Anything is possible.
    Much as I'd like to think so it is a very hard ask. 43% is a massive majority even taking into account incumbency and the fact that he was PM.

    I think the LDs would be delighted to get in the 20s & smash LAB
    The expectations management of people like Mr Senior here is talking about LDs in the 30s if not winning. 20s and smashing Labour ought to be a good result but I wonder if it might not seem anticlymatic after some of the hype recently.
    My forecast has consistently been LDs to get 28% . I always hope for better though .
    If it's 21% then that's not going to seem so great then even though it would be a big step forward from where it was.
    I agree .
    I suspect a win isn't really on the cards; the mountain to climb is massive. I expect the stops are now being pulled out because the party knows that a disappointing result could put what is seen as a nascent recovery at risk.

    Had the by-election come in the New Year around the A50 moment, it might have been a better prospect. I don't know if anyone has done any analysis on how long new PMs' honeymoons tend to last, but I would expect it should fade by next year, even if Labour remains flat on its back.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Perhaps someone else here will comment

    NO #HillaryBecause

    Her newly released Wall Street speeches in #PodestaEmails8 expose her https://t.co/9Gp8Hc4Ilv

    "let's make up a story"
  • Options
    TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited October 2016

    From what I've heard, I wouldn't be surprised at a Lib Dem gain. Sir Patrick McLoughlin isn't impressing as Party Chairman.
    Dave has been forced to do some more campaigning in the seat, he's really popular in the seat.
    And the less said about the Lib Dem Edward MacMillan-Scott the better.

    Yes Mcloughlin is a dud. Is 58 and looks 15 year older.
    Noticeable that CCHQ have sent no emails to this member asking for help. Have any PB Conservative members been asked by CCHQ?
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    Pauly said:

    That former CON MEP is a TINO. As is TSE. At least Mike knows he's yellow on the inside.

    Not even in name. Didn't he defect to the LibDems ages ago?
    Yes. He was upset that the Conservatives withdrawing from the EPP would have meant he had to give up a position within the EP. After being elected as a Conservative in the 2009 elections, he immediately stood against the Conservatives' (and ECR's) nominee in the EP election for vice-president and won. For that, he was expelled from the party and he subsequently joined the Lib Dems.
    So he's been a Lib Dem for seven years but is a lifelong Tory and wants Tories to "lend" their vote as it's a by election and May has changed direction?

    I guess it's not just dodgy bar charts anymore.
    He's actually been a Lib Dem for six years but same difference. He lost their deposit in Pontefract, Normanton and Castleford at the last election.
  • Options
    JohnO said:

    The LibDems will poll well over 30%...and I honestly wouldn't rule out a gain. Seriously.

    As for McMillan-Scott...he truly is the ghastliest of the ghastly. He should have been de-selected in 2009 but the Tories nationally insisted that incumbent MEPs were guaranteed top places on the regional lists.

    Have you had any requests for help with Witney from CCHQ? I have only seen one from a non-CCHQ group.
  • Options
    IanB2 said:

    There is certainly no lack of effort. By lunchtime today I had received an email telling me about the coach to Witney tomorrow, another telling me how I can make phone calls to canvass Witney voters, and a third telling me how I can donate to the costs of the campaign.

    Requests from the Lib Dems?
  • Options
    OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,913

    Jason said:

    Is it right to even compare random, and utterly inconsequential council seats, to a parliamentary by-election? Is there any evidence that the Limp Dims are breaking through in national voting polling figures? I haven't seen any real evidence. What I have seen is a good dose of hyperbole, wishful thinking and borderline hysteria from one or two Dims right here on this forum.

    The use of Limp and Dims in your post says much about your IQ
    Agreed, there is real hubris about the Tories and hard-line Brexiteers right now. Let's wait and see how things lie a couple of years from now - something tells me they won't be quite so chipper.
  • Options
    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,214

    JohnO said:

    The LibDems will poll well over 30%...and I honestly wouldn't rule out a gain. Seriously.

    As for McMillan-Scott...he truly is the ghastliest of the ghastly. He should have been de-selected in 2009 but the Tories nationally insisted that incumbent MEPs were guaranteed top places on the regional lists.

    Have you had any requests for help with Witney from CCHQ? I have only seen one from a non-CCHQ group.
    Nope.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,921
    nunu said:

    I anticipate a very strong showing by LD, but think the Tories will hold by about 2000

    More like 5,000 I think.
    7,000 for the LibDems, 12,000 for the Tories, low turnout... That would be my expectation.
  • Options
    Looking at possible equivalents in previous parliaments:

    1983 Penrith
    Con -13%
    Lib +17%

    1984 SW Surrey
    Con -10%
    Lib +11%

    1984 Portsmouth S
    Con -16%
    SDP +12%

    1984 Enfield Southgate
    Con -9%
    Lib +12%

    1985 Brecon
    Con -21%
    Lib +11%

    1986 West Derbyshire
    Con -16%
    Lib +12%

    1986 Ryedale
    Con -18%
    Lib +20%

    1988 Epping Forest
    Con -22%
    LD/SDP +19%

    1989 Richmond
    Con -24%
    LD/SDP +27%

    1990 Eastbourne
    Con -19%
    LD +21%

    1991 Ribble Valley
    Con -22%
    LD +27%

    1991 Kincardine
    Con -10%
    LD +13%

    1993 Newbury
    Con -29%
    LD +28%

    1993 Christchurch
    Con -32%
    LD +39%

    1994 Eastleigh
    Con -27%
    LD +16%

    1995 Littleborough
    Con -21%
    LD +3%

    An average swing of 19%.

    Which if repeated should give us approximately Con 41% LD 26%.
  • Options
    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,214
    OllyT said:

    Jason said:

    Is it right to even compare random, and utterly inconsequential council seats, to a parliamentary by-election? Is there any evidence that the Limp Dims are breaking through in national voting polling figures? I haven't seen any real evidence. What I have seen is a good dose of hyperbole, wishful thinking and borderline hysteria from one or two Dims right here on this forum.

    The use of Limp and Dims in your post says much about your IQ
    Agreed, there is real hubris about the Tories and hard-line Brexiteers right now. Let's wait and see how things lie a couple of years from now - something tells me they won't be quite so chipper.
    That's my view as well. Victory in 2020 is by no means the certainty that many of my blue bretheren here opine.
  • Options
    perdixperdix Posts: 1,806

    JohnO said:

    The LibDems will poll well over 30%...and I honestly wouldn't rule out a gain. Seriously.

    As for McMillan-Scott...he truly is the ghastliest of the ghastly. He should have been de-selected in 2009 but the Tories nationally insisted that incumbent MEPs were guaranteed top places on the regional lists.

    Have you had any requests for help with Witney from CCHQ? I have only seen one from a non-CCHQ group.
    Yes, my wife & I have received requests from CCHQ.

    As for E M-C, quelle surprise from a rabid Europhile!

  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,289
    edited October 2016

    From what I've heard, I wouldn't be surprised at a Lib Dem gain. Sir Patrick McLoughlin isn't impressing as Party Chairman.
    Dave has been forced to do some more campaigning in the seat, he's really popular in the seat.
    And the less said about the Lib Dem Edward MacMillan-Scott the better.

    Yes Mcloughlin is a dud. Is 58 and looks 15 year older.
    Noticeable that CCHQ have sent no emails to this member asking for help. Have any PB Conservative members been asked by CCHQ?
    The amusing thing is the Witney Tories have a very strong infrastructure, based on when Shaun Woodward defected, and they worked hard to make sure there were no surprises in 2001, and since 2005 their local MP ensured membership was high and events were always well attended.

    Now CCHQ appears not be deploying those resources.
  • Options

    Pauly said:

    That former CON MEP is a TINO. As is TSE. At least Mike knows he's yellow on the inside.

    Not even in name. Didn't he defect to the LibDems ages ago?
    Yes. He was upset that the Conservatives withdrawing from the EPP would have meant he had to give up a position within the EP. After being elected as a Conservative in the 2009 elections, he immediately stood against the Conservatives' (and ECR's) nominee in the EP election for vice-president and won. For that, he was expelled from the party and he subsequently joined the Lib Dems.
    So he's been a Lib Dem for seven years but is a lifelong Tory and wants Tories to "lend" their vote as it's a by election and May has changed direction?

    I guess it's not just dodgy bar charts anymore.
    You seem surprised at what Lib Dems do at by elections?
    "Meet your local candidate" = they just started renting a flat here a few weeks before election day
  • Options
    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    Not for the first time the King of the North and the Sage of the South are in full accord.

    (Now about Mrs May.....)

    Hah, I did a Populus poll at lunchtime, one of the questions was I was satisfied or dissatisfied with the way the unelected PM Mrs May was doing her job,.

    This was my response.

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/787311343250571264
    We are not amused. My office. Tomorrow. 8.00am. Interview. No coffee.
    I suspect my morning thread will enrage my fellow Tories even more, especially those of a Leave disposition.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,222
    edited October 2016

    Pauly said:

    Pauly said:

    That former CON MEP is a TINO. As is TSE. At least Mike knows he's yellow on the inside.

    Not even in name. Didn't he defect to the LibDems ages ago?
    Deceitful to put "Like many lifelong Conservatives". The liberal democrats are clearly employing despicable tactics. Especially since he was expelled from the party over the creation of the ECR grouping. A fanatical federalist seeking to overturn the referendum result.
    After the out campaign, deceitful and despicable is fully the plat du jour. More power to their elbow.
    Why is that deceitful? The letter clearly states who it is from, and you can't libel yourself. He clearly states he stopped being a Tory MEP in 2010. The phrase "like many X, I..." does not make one an X; like many Labour MPs I voted Remain, yet I am not a Labour MP. The guy switched from Tory to LibDem because of the Tory antipathy to the EU, which is precisely the pitch he is making to Witney voters.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,023
    Quite surreally California is covered in Bernie billboards advertising his endorsement of a local proposition on drug prices.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,222

    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    Not for the first time the King of the North and the Sage of the South are in full accord.

    (Now about Mrs May.....)

    Hah, I did a Populus poll at lunchtime, one of the questions was I was satisfied or dissatisfied with the way the unelected PM Mrs May was doing her job,.

    This was my response.

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/787311343250571264
    We are not amused. My office. Tomorrow. 8.00am. Interview. No coffee.
    I suspect my morning thread will enrage my fellow Tories even more, especially those of a Leave disposition.
    Would you be interested in writing to voters in Witney, Mr TSE?
  • Options

    From what I've heard, I wouldn't be surprised at a Lib Dem gain. Sir Patrick McLoughlin isn't impressing as Party Chairman.
    Dave has been forced to do some more campaigning in the seat, he's really popular in the seat.
    And the less said about the Lib Dem Edward MacMillan-Scott the better.

    Yes Mcloughlin is a dud. Is 58 and looks 15 year older.
    Noticeable that CCHQ have sent no emails to this member asking for help. Have any PB Conservative members been asked by CCHQ?
    Has McLoughlin been impressive at any government job he's had ?

    I may be being cynical but I rather suspect his backstory has been rather more useful in getting him positions than his abilities.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,222

    From what I've heard, I wouldn't be surprised at a Lib Dem gain. Sir Patrick McLoughlin isn't impressing as Party Chairman.
    Dave has been forced to do some more campaigning in the seat, he's really popular in the seat.
    And the less said about the Lib Dem Edward MacMillan-Scott the better.

    Yes Mcloughlin is a dud. Is 58 and looks 15 year older.
    Noticeable that CCHQ have sent no emails to this member asking for help. Have any PB Conservative members been asked by CCHQ?
    The amusing thing is the Witney Tories have a very strong infrastructure, based on when Shaun Woodward defected, and they worked hard to make sure there were no surprises in 2001, and since 2005 their local MP ensured membership was high and events were always well attended.

    Now CCHQ appears not be deploying those resources.
    If I was a Cameroonian in Witney who felt strongly that Brexit is a mistake, I wonder whether I would actually like to see the LibDems do well?
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    PlatoSaid said:

    Perhaps someone else here will comment

    NO #HillaryBecause

    Her newly released Wall Street speeches in #PodestaEmails8 expose her https://t.co/9Gp8Hc4Ilv

    "let's make up a story"

    No-one is listening to you - try to think why that may be.
  • Options
    JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    Pauly said:

    That former CON MEP is a TINO. As is TSE. At least Mike knows he's yellow on the inside.

    What's a TINO? Something in name only? Tortoise? Traitor? Terrorist? Tiddlywink?
  • Options
    Sam Coates of The Times has done a story which he has tweeted the précis for those with out paywall access

    Here are his tweets

    Some tweets about the chances of a 2017 or 2018 election, based on conversations over last fortnight and this piece

    From thinking a pre 2020 election was off the cards before we headed to Birmingham for Tory conference, now I think it can't be discounted.

    TM may not want to call one from a position of strength. But I report here why she may end up having to from a position of weakness. Why...

    This week just gone showed that the Commons has the potential to cause more trouble than expected.

    And the Great Repeal Bill - the European Communities Bill (ECB) as known - could be a vehicle for rebellion

    One Cabinet minister is reportedly saying that Theresa May is likely to lose the ECB in Commons or Lords & when this happens TM calls elec

    Early numbers look ominious. Even with the DUP, the government's working majority is 34, meaning only 17 need to switch sides in a vote.

    One informal view: around 5 Tory MPs publicly critical & up to 20 privately signalling they r prepared to vote against gvt for a soft Brexit

    "It looks like we've swapped 20 hard Eurosceptics for a 20 strong group of Europhiles", said one member of the government.

    A further 30 remain-supporters may cause trouble in future & there are even one or two Brexiteers unhappy with making migration the priority

    Tory MPs may be brought into line with threats and turning key votes into confidence votes but Parliamentary defeats on Brexit very damaging

    ... And that's before the traditional right, who want Theresa May to contemplate WTO rules, find something to rebel on. Which they will.

    Another group of Brexiteers say UK-EU deal bound to largely fail and cause significant pain. So have a "clean" break" to WTO then election

    3rd suggestion is Theresa holds a quickie snap election straight after triggering Article 50, while Europe working on A50 response/elections

    Meanwhile George Osborne is meeting groups of Tory MPs for drinks...
  • Options
    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,202
    IanB2 said:

    Pauly said:

    Pauly said:

    That former CON MEP is a TINO. As is TSE. At least Mike knows he's yellow on the inside.

    Not even in name. Didn't he defect to the LibDems ages ago?
    Deceitful to put "Like many lifelong Conservatives". The liberal democrats are clearly employing despicable tactics. Especially since he was expelled from the party over the creation of the ECR grouping. A fanatical federalist seeking to overturn the referendum result.
    After the out campaign, deceitful and despicable is fully the plat du jour. More power to their elbow.
    Why is that deceitful? The letter clearly states who it is from, and you can't libel yourself. He clearly states he stopped being a Tory MEP in 2010. The phrase "like many X, I..." does not make one an X; like many Labour MPs I voted Remain, yet I am not a Labour MP. The guy switched from Tory to LibDem because of the Tory antipathy to the EU, which is precisely the pitch he is making to Witney voters.
    No you're right. But I was responding to Pauly rather than commenting on EMS
  • Options
    As a Libdem I honestly have no idea what will happen on Thursday, personally I would be content with anything over 20%.
    Someone asked if Local Byelections matter, I think the point here is that they can be a pointer to what will happen next May.
    Less than 18 Months after The General Election I dont think we shoud expect the Polls to show much change especiaally as The Libdems have had very little coverage in the media. It would not be unreasonable for an average voter to assume that The Libdems had ceased to exist.
  • Options
    IanB2 said:

    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    Not for the first time the King of the North and the Sage of the South are in full accord.

    (Now about Mrs May.....)

    Hah, I did a Populus poll at lunchtime, one of the questions was I was satisfied or dissatisfied with the way the unelected PM Mrs May was doing her job,.

    This was my response.

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/787311343250571264
    We are not amused. My office. Tomorrow. 8.00am. Interview. No coffee.
    I suspect my morning thread will enrage my fellow Tories even more, especially those of a Leave disposition.
    Would you be interested in writing to voters in Witney, Mr TSE?
    No. I keep on getting told off for my letters I write at work, one of colleagues pointed out my latest letter contained five different languages and a military history metaphor that was beyond most mortals.

    Oh and an 80s pop music reference.
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    JohnLoony said:

    Pauly said:

    That former CON MEP is a TINO. As is TSE. At least Mike knows he's yellow on the inside.

    What's a TINO? Something in name only? Tortoise? Traitor? Terrorist? Tiddlywink?
    Telletubby.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,222
    edited October 2016
    felix said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Perhaps someone else here will comment

    NO #HillaryBecause

    Her newly released Wall Street speeches in #PodestaEmails8 expose her https://t.co/9Gp8Hc4Ilv

    "let's make up a story"

    No-one is listening to you - try to think why that may be.
    Weil Trump ein Sexmonster ist?
  • Options
    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,214

    Sam Coates of The Times has done a story which he has tweeted the précis for those with out paywall access

    Here are his tweets

    Some tweets about the chances of a 2017 or 2018 election, based on conversations over last fortnight and this piece

    From thinking a pre 2020 election was off the cards before we headed to Birmingham for Tory conference, now I think it can't be discounted.

    TM may not want to call one from a position of strength. But I report here why she may end up having to from a position of weakness. Why...

    This week just gone showed that the Commons has the potential to cause more trouble than expected.

    And the Great Repeal Bill - the European Communities Bill (ECB) as known - could be a vehicle for rebellion

    One Cabinet minister is reportedly saying that Theresa May is likely to lose the ECB in Commons or Lords & when this happens TM calls elec

    Early numbers look ominious. Even with the DUP, the government's working majority is 34, meaning only 17 need to switch sides in a vote.

    One informal view: around 5 Tory MPs publicly critical & up to 20 privately signalling they r prepared to vote against gvt for a soft Brexit

    "It looks like we've swapped 20 hard Eurosceptics for a 20 strong group of Europhiles", said one member of the government.

    A further 30 remain-supporters may cause trouble in future & there are even one or two Brexiteers unhappy with making migration the priority

    Tory MPs may be brought into line with threats and turning key votes into confidence votes but Parliamentary defeats on Brexit very damaging

    ... And that's before the traditional right, who want Theresa May to contemplate WTO rules, find something to rebel on. Which they will.

    Another group of Brexiteers say UK-EU deal bound to largely fail and cause significant pain. So have a "clean" break" to WTO then election

    3rd suggestion is Theresa holds a quickie snap election straight after triggering Article 50, while Europe working on A50 response/elections

    Meanwhile George Osborne is meeting groups of Tory MPs for drinks...

    Please may that election be held in May along with those for the County Councils. Just sayin' like....
  • Options
    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,202

    Looking at possible equivalents in previous parliaments:

    1983 Penrith
    Con -13%
    Lib +17%

    1984 SW Surrey
    Con -10%
    Lib +11%

    1984 Portsmouth S
    Con -16%
    SDP +12%

    1984 Enfield Southgate
    Con -9%
    Lib +12%

    1985 Brecon
    Con -21%
    Lib +11%

    1986 West Derbyshire
    Con -16%
    Lib +12%

    1986 Ryedale
    Con -18%
    Lib +20%

    1988 Epping Forest
    Con -22%
    LD/SDP +19%

    1989 Richmond
    Con -24%
    LD/SDP +27%

    1990 Eastbourne
    Con -19%
    LD +21%

    1991 Ribble Valley
    Con -22%
    LD +27%

    1991 Kincardine
    Con -10%
    LD +13%

    1993 Newbury
    Con -29%
    LD +28%

    1993 Christchurch
    Con -32%
    LD +39%

    1994 Eastleigh
    Con -27%
    LD +16%

    1995 Littleborough
    Con -21%
    LD +3%

    An average swing of 19%.

    Which if repeated should give us approximately Con 41% LD 26%.

    Under the circumstances, you have to think > average may be realistic. More Eastbourne than Enfield. Which is why I think they'll fall short, but narrowly. I have had a fiver on them though ;)

    My return on Amalie Dideriksen today more than covers it :)
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024

    Quite surreally California is covered in Bernie billboards advertising his endorsement of a local proposition on drug prices.

    Even if Hillary win she will face some of the strongest opposition from the " progressives", will probably even primary her in 3 years.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,222

    IanB2 said:

    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    Not for the first time the King of the North and the Sage of the South are in full accord.

    (Now about Mrs May.....)

    Hah, I did a Populus poll at lunchtime, one of the questions was I was satisfied or dissatisfied with the way the unelected PM Mrs May was doing her job,.

    This was my response.

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/787311343250571264
    We are not amused. My office. Tomorrow. 8.00am. Interview. No coffee.
    I suspect my morning thread will enrage my fellow Tories even more, especially those of a Leave disposition.
    Would you be interested in writing to voters in Witney, Mr TSE?
    No. I keep on getting told off for my letters I write at work, one of colleagues pointed out my latest letter contained five different languages and a military history metaphor that was beyond most mortals.

    Oh and an 80s pop music reference.
    And you were only supposed to be acknowledging their complaint and promising to get back to them? Kudos to you. Skills like that are rare nowadays.
  • Options
    So funny to see the turncoat McMillan-Scott appealing to Tory voters to remember the 'compassionate Conservatism' of David Cameron when it was because of Cameron he switched to the Lib Dems.

    What a tosser.
  • Options
    PaulyPauly Posts: 897
    edited October 2016
    IanB2 said:

    Pauly said:

    Pauly said:

    That former CON MEP is a TINO. As is TSE. At least Mike knows he's yellow on the inside.

    Not even in name. Didn't he defect to the LibDems ages ago?
    Deceitful to put "Like many lifelong Conservatives". The liberal democrats are clearly employing despicable tactics. Especially since he was expelled from the party over the creation of the ECR grouping. A fanatical federalist seeking to overturn the referendum result.
    After the out campaign, deceitful and despicable is fully the plat du jour. More power to their elbow.
    Why is that deceitful? The letter clearly states who it is from, and you can't libel yourself. He clearly states he stopped being a Tory MEP in 2010. The phrase "like many X, I..." does not make one an X; like many Labour MPs I voted Remain, yet I am not a Labour MP. The guy switched from Tory to LibDem because of the Tory antipathy to the EU, which is precisely the pitch he is making to Witney voters.
    Something can be deceitful to the person reading it and not libel. [guilty of or involving deceit; deceiving or misleading others.]
    I was misled before I checked wikipedia to discover a lot of the intentional implications were nonsense.

    EDIT: The article implies that Theresa May is what drove him away rather than his european obsession long before that, which is for the birds...
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,222
    edited October 2016

    So funny to see the turncoat McMillan-Scott appealing to Tory voters to remember the 'compassionate Conservatism' of David Cameron when it was because of Cameron he switched to the Lib Dems.

    What a tosser.

    It wasn't because of Cameron, but because of the pact with "the devil within" that Cameron had been forced to do to hold onto his job.

    Cameron's second pact with the same devil did a lot more damage!
  • Options
    JohnO said:

    Sam Coates of The Times has done a story which he has tweeted the précis for those with out paywall access

    Here are his tweets

    Some tweets about the chances of a 2017 or 2018 election, based on conversations over last fortnight and this piece

    From thinking a pre 2020 election was off the cards before we headed to Birmingham for Tory conference, now I think it can't be discounted.

    TM may not want to call one from a position of strength. But I report here why she may end up having to from a position of weakness. Why...

    This week just gone showed that the Commons has the potential to cause more trouble than expected.

    And the Great Repeal Bill - the European Communities Bill (ECB) as known - could be a vehicle for rebellion

    One Cabinet minister is reportedly saying that Theresa May is likely to lose the ECB in Commons or Lords & when this happens TM calls elec

    Early numbers look ominious. Even with the DUP, the government's working majority is 34, meaning only 17 need to switch sides in a vote.

    One informal view: around 5 Tory MPs publicly critical & up to 20 privately signalling they r prepared to vote against gvt for a soft Brexit

    "It looks like we've swapped 20 hard Eurosceptics for a 20 strong group of Europhiles", said one member of the government.

    A further 30 remain-supporters may cause trouble in future & there are even one or two Brexiteers unhappy with making migration the priority

    Tory MPs may be brought into line with threats and turning key votes into confidence votes but Parliamentary defeats on Brexit very damaging

    ... And that's before the traditional right, who want Theresa May to contemplate WTO rules, find something to rebel on. Which they will.

    Another group of Brexiteers say UK-EU deal bound to largely fail and cause significant pain. So have a "clean" break" to WTO then election

    3rd suggestion is Theresa holds a quickie snap election straight after triggering Article 50, while Europe working on A50 response/elections

    Meanwhile George Osborne is meeting groups of Tory MPs for drinks...

    Please may that election be held in May along with those for the County Councils. Just sayin' like....
    Surely Coates is missing the fact that the Great Repeal Bill cannot happen until after we have left the EU. I seriously doubt May is considering breaching the UK treaty obligations whilst we are still negotiating our exit. Which means the earliest it can come to a vote is summer 2019.
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024

    So funny to see the turncoat McMillan-Scott appealing to Tory voters to remember the 'compassionate Conservatism' of David Cameron when it was because of Cameron he switched to the Lib Dems.

    What a tosser.

    Typical libdem then according to many Labour and Tory politicians who have had to campaign against them.
  • Options
    TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited October 2016
    I had a look at the Witney Conservatives website to see what focus they had on the by election.
    1. The only mention of the by election on its landing page is in the twitter and facebook feed!
    2. No statement on landing page or a link - if a reader wants to come and help.
    3. Local branch events are happening just before and the day after - resources and admin attention are being used as if it is "business as usual". Clearly complacent.
    4. The Events pages had no canvassing sessions etc - only annual dinners etc....
    Is the Agent the one who lost out on the selection?
    https://www.witneyconservatives.com/
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    Trump: I'm a vicitm.

    Right.....
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,222
    edited October 2016

    JohnO said:

    Sam Coates of The Times has done a story which he has tweeted the précis for those with out paywall access

    Here are his tweets

    Some tweets about the chances of a 2017 or 2018 election, based on conversations over last fortnight and this piece

    From thinking a pre 2020 election was off the cards before we headed to Birmingham for Tory conference, now I think it can't be discounted.

    TM may not want to call one from a position of strength. But I report here why she may end up having to from a position of weakness. Why...

    This week just gone showed that the Commons has the potential to cause more trouble than expected.

    And the Great Repeal Bill - the European Communities Bill (ECB) as known - could be a vehicle for rebellion

    One Cabinet minister is reportedly saying that Theresa May is likely to lose the ECB in Commons or Lords & when this happens TM calls elec

    Early numbers look ominious. Even with the DUP, the government's working majority is 34, meaning only 17 need to switch sides in a vote.

    One informal view: around 5 Tory MPs publicly critical & up to 20 privately signalling they r prepared to vote against gvt for a soft Brexit

    "It looks like we've swapped 20 hard Eurosceptics for a 20 strong group of Europhiles", said one member of the government.

    A further 30 remain-supporters may cause trouble in future & there are even one or two Brexiteers unhappy with making migration the priority

    Tory MPs may be brought into line with threats and turning key votes into confidence votes but Parliamentary defeats on Brexit very damaging

    ... And that's before the traditional right, who want Theresa May to contemplate WTO rules, find something to rebel on. Which they will.

    Another group of Brexiteers say UK-EU deal bound to largely fail and cause significant pain. So have a "clean" break" to WTO then election

    3rd suggestion is Theresa holds a quickie snap election straight after triggering Article 50, while Europe working on A50 response/elections

    Meanwhile George Osborne is meeting groups of Tory MPs for drinks...

    Please may that election be held in May along with those for the County Councils. Just sayin' like....
    Surely Coates is missing the fact that the Great Repeal Bill cannot happen until after we have left the EU. I seriously doubt May is considering breaching the UK treaty obligations whilst we are still negotiating our exit. Which means the earliest it can come to a vote is summer 2019.
    But the name of the bill is misleading, since we aren't repealing anything. What we are doing is importing all EU law into British law - which surely we can do now if we wish?

    'tis the art of doing something, for want of anything better to do.
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    firstlight40firstlight40 Posts: 69
    edited October 2016
    Depends on how she does in the EU

    "Hello Chancellor, that's a nice looking €60Tn derivatives in Deutsche Bank, although the share price is looking a bit rocky - would be a shame for the euro if something happened to the bank and it had to be bailed out or resolved, good job we've got well controlled financial traders in the UK perhaps you'd like to talk soft-brexit now"
    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    Not for the first time the King of the North and the Sage of the South are in full accord.

    (Now about Mrs May.....)

    Hah, I did a Populus poll at lunchtime, one of the questions was I was satisfied or dissatisfied with the way the unelected PM Mrs May was doing her job,.

    This was my response.

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/787311343250571264
    We are not amused. My office. Tomorrow. 8.00am. Interview. No coffee.
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    PaulyPauly Posts: 897
    IanB2 said:

    So funny to see the turncoat McMillan-Scott appealing to Tory voters to remember the 'compassionate Conservatism' of David Cameron when it was because of Cameron he switched to the Lib Dems.

    What a tosser.

    It wasn't because of Cameron, but because of the pact with "the devil within" that Cameron had been forced to do to hold onto his job.

    Cameron's second pact with the same devil did a lot more damage!
    It is unfair to fault David Cameron for this one. It is the EU's anti-democratic rules which prevent financed groupings unless you meet certain thresholds such as X member-states with Y MEPs.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,289
    edited October 2016

    JohnO said:

    Sam Coates of The Times has done a story which he has tweeted the précis for those with out paywall access

    ..

    Please may that election be held in May along with those for the County Councils. Just sayin' like....
    Surely Coates is missing the fact that the Great Repeal Bill cannot happen until after we have left the EU. I seriously doubt May is considering breaching the UK treaty obligations whilst we are still negotiating our exit. Which means the earliest it can come to a vote is summer 2019.
    Richard, the plan is for the 'Great' Repeal Bill to begin it's legislative journey next year, so it will be law on the first day we leave the EU.

    So there will be votes in the Commons on it from next year, think of it as a long drawn out Parliamentary sequel to the Maastricht Treaty's passage through the Commons.
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    IanB2 said:

    So funny to see the turncoat McMillan-Scott appealing to Tory voters to remember the 'compassionate Conservatism' of David Cameron when it was because of Cameron he switched to the Lib Dems.

    What a tosser.

    It wasn't because of Cameron, but because of the pact with "the devil within" that Cameron had been forced to do to hold onto his job.
    Rubbish. Cameron was responsible for his actions just as McMillan-Scott was. Cameron quite rightly chose to leave the EPP because of its stated aim of European political union. But McMillan-Scott couldn't accept that so left. To try and now claim that his opposition to the Tories stems from a move away from the Cameron project is simply dishonest.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,222
    Pauly said:

    IanB2 said:

    So funny to see the turncoat McMillan-Scott appealing to Tory voters to remember the 'compassionate Conservatism' of David Cameron when it was because of Cameron he switched to the Lib Dems.

    What a tosser.

    It wasn't because of Cameron, but because of the pact with "the devil within" that Cameron had been forced to do to hold onto his job.

    Cameron's second pact with the same devil did a lot more damage!
    It is unfair to fault David Cameron for this one. It is the EU's anti-democratic rules which prevent financed groupings unless you meet certain thresholds such as X member-states with Y MEPs.
    Nevertheless had Cameron not sold out to the nutters within, and stayed within the EPP, he might have had a bit more goodwill when he pitched up a few years later with his list of demands?
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    JohnO said:

    Sam Coates of The Times has done a story which he has tweeted the précis for those with out paywall access

    ..

    Please may that election be held in May along with those for the County Councils. Just sayin' like....
    Surely Coates is missing the fact that the Great Repeal Bill cannot happen until after we have left the EU. I seriously doubt May is considering breaching the UK treaty obligations whilst we are still negotiating our exit. Which means the earliest it can come to a vote is summer 2019.
    Richard, the plan is for the 'Great' Repeal Bill to begin it's legislative journey next year, so it will be law on the first day we leave the EU.

    So there will be votes in the Commons on it from next year, think of it as a long drawn out Parliamentary sequel to the Maastricht Treaty's passage through the Commons.
    Why should it take more than a year to put the Bill into legislation?
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    JasonJason Posts: 1,614

    Jason said:

    Is it right to even compare random, and utterly inconsequential council seats, to a parliamentary by-election? Is there any evidence that the Limp Dims are breaking through in national voting polling figures? I haven't seen any real evidence. What I have seen is a good dose of hyperbole, wishful thinking and borderline hysteria from one or two Dims right here on this forum.

    The use of Limp and Dims in your post says much about your IQ
    Now now, I didn't attack you personally. That also says something about your IQ too.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,921

    Depends on how she does in the EU

    "Hello Chancellor, that's a nice looking €60Tn derivatives in Deutsche Bank, although the share price is looking a bit rocky - would be a shame for the euro if something happened to the bank and it had to be bailed out or resolved, good job we've got well controlled financial traders in the UK perhaps you'd like to talk soft-brexit now"

    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    Not for the first time the King of the North and the Sage of the South are in full accord.

    (Now about Mrs May.....)

    Hah, I did a Populus poll at lunchtime, one of the questions was I was satisfied or dissatisfied with the way the unelected PM Mrs May was doing her job,.

    This was my response.

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/787311343250571264
    We are not amused. My office. Tomorrow. 8.00am. Interview. No coffee.
    Ummm, giving our banks (especially Barclays) are probably among the largest counterparties to Deutsche Bank, I'm not sure that's going to be a terribly effective tactic.
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    IanB2 said:


    But the name of the bill is misleading, since we aren't repealing anything. What we are doing is importing all EU law into British law - which surely we can do now if we wish?

    'tis the art of doing something, for want of anything better to do.

    No the Bill as I understand it both pulls EU law into UK law and removes the primacy of EU law.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,222

    IanB2 said:


    But the name of the bill is misleading, since we aren't repealing anything. What we are doing is importing all EU law into British law - which surely we can do now if we wish?

    'tis the art of doing something, for want of anything better to do.

    No the Bill as I understand it both pulls EU law into UK law and removes the primacy of EU law.
    Then I would expect the latter point to be conditional upon subsequent exit, which means that nothing changes (in respect of primacy) on the day the Bill becomes an Act
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    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400

    From what I've heard, I wouldn't be surprised at a Lib Dem gain. Sir Patrick McLoughlin isn't impressing as Party Chairman.
    Dave has been forced to do some more campaigning in the seat, he's really popular in the seat.
    And the less said about the Lib Dem Edward MacMillan-Scott the better.

    Yes Mcloughlin is a dud. Is 58 and looks 15 year older.
    Noticeable that CCHQ have sent no emails to this member asking for help. Have any PB Conservative members been asked by CCHQ?
    The amusing thing is the Witney Tories have a very strong infrastructure, based on when Shaun Woodward defected, and they worked hard to make sure there were no surprises in 2001, and since 2005 their local MP ensured membership was high and events were always well attended.

    Now CCHQ appears not be deploying those resources.
    Did May not sack alot of CCHQ staff when she took over? Certainly CCHQ seem alot less active than they have in the past.
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    JohnO said:

    Sam Coates of The Times has done a story which he has tweeted the précis for those with out paywall access

    ..

    Please may that election be held in May along with those for the County Councils. Just sayin' like....
    Surely Coates is missing the fact that the Great Repeal Bill cannot happen until after we have left the EU. I seriously doubt May is considering breaching the UK treaty obligations whilst we are still negotiating our exit. Which means the earliest it can come to a vote is summer 2019.
    Richard, the plan is for the 'Great' Repeal Bill to begin it's legislative journey next year, so it will be law on the first day we leave the EU.

    So there will be votes in the Commons on it from next year, think of it as a long drawn out Parliamentary sequel to the Maastricht Treaty's passage through the Commons.
    Why should it take more than a year to put the Bill into legislation?
    Because it should take that long to put in provisions to repeal everything, and plus there's other non EU related treaties/agreements that need sorting out.

    For example there's provisions of the Good Friday Agreement that are incompatible with leaving the EU that need sorting out.
This discussion has been closed.