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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » My 100/1 tip to win the 2020 London Mayoral election

SystemSystem Posts: 11,006
edited October 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » My 100/1 tip to win the 2020 London Mayoral election

Assuming the unelected PM doesn’t change her mind, the next general election will be on the same day as the London Mayoral election, Sadiq Khan has a choice to make, will he stand as London Mayor in 2020 or will he stand as an MP in 2020?

Read the full story here


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  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    First!
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    edited October 2016
    Hmmmm. Not sure Ma Beckett and others would have been all "aw, bless...." about the Hard Left being on the leadership ballot if their man had been Gorgeous George instead of Jeremy Corbyn....
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,216
    edited October 2016
    Third like Labour
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,216
    edited October 2016
    At 1000/1 this bet might be approaching fair value,

    Even if he stands for Labour (even for that, 100/1 is not generous), the Tories win.
  • Options
    JennyFreemanJennyFreeman Posts: 488
    edited October 2016
    'Unelected PM'

    Kindly name me a single person who has been elected Prime Minister by the British people.

    Furthermore, TM is constrained by the Fixed Term Parliament Act. I'm not convinced overturning that legislation would get a majority on the floor so it's perhaps not the brightest throwaway.

    It's a good spoof piece though, I'll give you that.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,842
    Morning. Question to which the answer is no, even at 100/1.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,572

    'Unelected PM'

    Kindly name me a single person who has been elected Prime Minister by the British people.

    Furthermore, TM is constrained by the Fixed Term Parliament Act. I'm not convinced overturning that legislation would get a majority on the floor so it's perhaps not the brightest throwaway.

    It's a good spoof piece though, I'll give you that.

    He's still grieving. clutching at straws...

    I met a traveller from an antique land
    Who said: "Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
    Stand in the desert . . . Near them, on the sand,
    Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
    And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
    Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
    Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
    The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed:
    And on the pedestal these words appear:
    'My name is Ozborndias, king of kings:
    Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!'
    Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
    Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
    The lone and level sands stretch far away."
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,388
    edited October 2016
    5th (column) like Galloway.

    I can perhaps see some London Labour members elect an anti-democrat; but the Electorate?

    Are we allowed to hotlink, TSE?

    image

    This is better as you get a Homburg too, but not suitable for linking.

    http://tinyurl.com/zaso3bt
  • Options
    JennyFreemanJennyFreeman Posts: 488
    edited October 2016

    He's still grieving. clutching at straws...
    "
    Awww bless. Poor lamb.
  • Options
    Carlotta, that's a fabulous little twist on Shelley's masterpiece. Haha!!!!
  • Options
    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351
    Sorry, Mr Eagles, the only thing he's got going for him is that he's a Leaver. And in 2020, when all claim that they were Leavers in the Great Leap Forward of 2016, that will be a recommendation.
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Apropos the discussion about automated cashiers/servers at burger restaurants, that is the tip of the iceberg, check out this technology. What are all the semi-skilled craftsmen going to be doing for a living in a decade time ?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fb4j51Mor20
  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Somehow I don think even in a billion trillion alternate universes that GG is going to be leader of the Labour party, the cat nonsense at BB would be wheeled out every five minutes. its quite possible that the next Labour Prime Minister isn't even in Parliament yet.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,918
    Indigo said:

    Apropos the discussion about automated cashiers/servers at burger restaurants, that is the tip of the iceberg, check out this technology. What are all the semi-skilled craftsmen going to be doing for a living in a decade time ?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fb4j51Mor20

    You could ask Ned Ludd.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,918
    edited October 2016

    Somehow I don think even in a billion trillion alternate universes that GG is going to be leader of the Labour party, the cat nonsense at BB would be wheeled out every five minutes. its quite possible that the next Labour Prime Minister isn't even in Parliament yet.

    Hasn’t she just entered secondary school?
  • Options
    nielhnielh Posts: 1,307
    If your really have backed Galloway at these odds I salute your courage given the circumstances

    - Galloway to re enter the labour party
    - the labour party to select Galloway as candidate in 2020
    - Galloway to win

    He may reenter the labour party if the NEC gets taken over by the hard left. But the labour party would not select him. The labour party (and the electorate) in London are overwhelmingly pro EU and as I recall, strongly supported owen smith in the most recent leadership campaign. That's if the labour party holds itself together for five more years. He could of course stand as an independent or for respect, and poll 1.4% again.

    Galloway to win the mayoral election? Hmmmmm. Not inconceivable, but reliant on a major shift in demographics and popular opinion.

    I would back him at 250/1.
    There is better value on the market for next conservative leader, I backed david davis yesterday at 100/1, I would say the true odds are closer to 5/1 given his strong position in the cabinet at the moment. And I can't understand why Johnson is still hanging around as favourite given his ridiculous performance as foreign secretary. The guy is a total clown.
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,703
    JackW said:
    Even Breitbart showing Hillary ahead, she must be heading for a landslide win.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    National - ABC/Washington Post - Sample 740 - 10-13 Oct

    Clinton 50 .. Trump 46

    http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/page/politics/washington-post-abc-news-national-poll-oct-10-13-2016/2102/

    National Panel Tracker - LA Times - Sample 2,870 - 15 Oct

    Clinton 44.1 .. Trump 44.2

    http://graphics.latimes.com/usc-presidential-poll-dashboard/
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109
    On the thread header - while Galloway would be a perfect fit for Labour's new kinder, gentler politics, as he's a racist, misogynist thug with a huge ego and a tiny brain - there is no prospect of him winning even in London. He has tried before and failed dismally.

    Re grammar schools on the previous thread - I've taught in all types of school one way or another. I'm actually surprised it's as high as 2.6% poor students. It's the middle classes can afford tutors for the 11+, and in any case outside two counties it's pushy parents who are usually affluent who enter their children for the exam anyway.

    There are two necessary corollaries to the return of grammars, one of which we should do anyway:

    1) A maximum class size of 20 (15 in inner cities) to maximise teacher input on children (this will also have the huge advantage of reducing teacher workload and making the profession more attractive);

    2) A massive expansion of middle schools catering for up to year 8 at least. 11 is too young to know who will or will not be really able later (not necessarily those at the top and bottom, but those in the middle). That would then allow the application of the de facto selection that happens in comprehensives at options time, which under the new and extremely content-heavy GCSE will almost certainly be at the end of year 8 in all schools.

    Comprehensive schools are not in and of themselves the problem, and grammar schools alone are not the answer.
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    nielh said:

    There is better value on the market for next conservative leader, I backed david davis yesterday at 100/1, I would say the true odds are closer to 5/1 given his strong position in the cabinet at the moment. And I can't understand why Johnson is still hanging around as favourite given his ridiculous performance as foreign secretary. The guy is a total clown.

    That is your heart talking not you head. Boris is a massively popular clown, especially with the party in the country, and they are the one's that will be voting for the next leader. He has easily enough support from MPs to get on the ballot.

  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,703
    Indigo said:

    nielh said:

    There is better value on the market for next conservative leader, I backed david davis yesterday at 100/1, I would say the true odds are closer to 5/1 given his strong position in the cabinet at the moment. And I can't understand why Johnson is still hanging around as favourite given his ridiculous performance as foreign secretary. The guy is a total clown.

    That is your heart talking not you head. Boris is a massively popular clown, especially with the party in the country, and they are the one's that will be voting for the next leader. He has easily enough support from MPs to get on the ballot.

    Including Gove?
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited October 2016

    Indigo said:

    nielh said:

    There is better value on the market for next conservative leader, I backed david davis yesterday at 100/1, I would say the true odds are closer to 5/1 given his strong position in the cabinet at the moment. And I can't understand why Johnson is still hanging around as favourite given his ridiculous performance as foreign secretary. The guy is a total clown.

    That is your heart talking not you head. Boris is a massively popular clown, especially with the party in the country, and they are the one's that will be voting for the next leader. He has easily enough support from MPs to get on the ballot.

    Including Gove?
    I am not sure he is the only MP that gets a vote.

    .. and Gove would take Boris over Davis any day of the week.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,578
    Indigo said:

    nielh said:

    There is better value on the market for next conservative leader, I backed david davis yesterday at 100/1, I would say the true odds are closer to 5/1 given his strong position in the cabinet at the moment. And I can't understand why Johnson is still hanging around as favourite given his ridiculous performance as foreign secretary. The guy is a total clown.

    That is your heart talking not you head. Boris is a massively popular clown, especially with the party in the country, and they are the one's that will be voting for the next leader. He has easily enough support from MPs to get on the ballot.

    But didn't Boris declare to the nation that he wasn't up to being PM when he dipped out in the summer?
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    On the thread header - while Galloway would be a perfect fit for Labour's new kinder, gentler politics, as he's a racist, misogynist thug with a huge ego and a tiny brain - there is no prospect of him winning even in London. He has tried before and failed dismally.

    Re grammar schools on the previous thread - I've taught in all types of school one way or another. I'm actually surprised it's as high as 2.6% poor students. It's the middle classes can afford tutors for the 11+, and in any case outside two counties it's pushy parents who are usually affluent who enter their children for the exam anyway.

    There are two necessary corollaries to the return of grammars, one of which we should do anyway:

    1) A maximum class size of 20 (15 in inner cities) to maximise teacher input on children (this will also have the huge advantage of reducing teacher workload and making the profession more attractive);

    2) A massive expansion of middle schools catering for up to year 8 at least. 11 is too young to know who will or will not be really able later (not necessarily those at the top and bottom, but those in the middle). That would then allow the application of the de facto selection that happens in comprehensives at options time, which under the new and extremely content-heavy GCSE will almost certainly be at the end of year 8 in all schools.

    Comprehensive schools are not in and of themselves the problem, and grammar schools alone are not the answer.

    Everyone who knows anything about education knows all this. And has known it for at least 50 years. But a country that can't or won't pay for its own healthcare is hardly likely to pay for the education of other people's children.

  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited October 2016

    Even Breitbart showing Hillary ahead, she must be heading for a landslide win.

    Gravis for Breitbart have a 538 B- rating and their polls are adjusted +1 to Clinton. These two swing state polls are in line with other recent offerings and show a move to Clinton over the past week.
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Indigo said:

    nielh said:

    There is better value on the market for next conservative leader, I backed david davis yesterday at 100/1, I would say the true odds are closer to 5/1 given his strong position in the cabinet at the moment. And I can't understand why Johnson is still hanging around as favourite given his ridiculous performance as foreign secretary. The guy is a total clown.

    That is your heart talking not you head. Boris is a massively popular clown, especially with the party in the country, and they are the one's that will be voting for the next leader. He has easily enough support from MPs to get on the ballot.

    But didn't Boris declare to the nation that he wasn't up to being PM when he dipped out in the summer?
    In which case he won't stand. If he stands who is going to beat him, certainly not Davis.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,889
    ydoethur said:

    On the thread header - while Galloway would be a perfect fit for Labour's new kinder, gentler politics, as he's a racist, misogynist thug with a huge ego and a tiny brain - there is no prospect of him winning even in London. He has tried before and failed dismally.

    Re grammar schools on the previous thread - I've taught in all types of school one way or another. I'm actually surprised it's as high as 2.6% poor students. It's the middle classes can afford tutors for the 11+, and in any case outside two counties it's pushy parents who are usually affluent who enter their children for the exam anyway.

    There are two necessary corollaries to the return of grammars, one of which we should do anyway:

    1) A maximum class size of 20 (15 in inner cities) to maximise teacher input on children (this will also have the huge advantage of reducing teacher workload and making the profession more attractive);

    2) A massive expansion of middle schools catering for up to year 8 at least. 11 is too young to know who will or will not be really able later (not necessarily those at the top and bottom, but those in the middle). That would then allow the application of the de facto selection that happens in comprehensives at options time, which under the new and extremely content-heavy GCSE will almost certainly be at the end of year 8 in all schools.

    Comprehensive schools are not in and of themselves the problem, and grammar schools alone are not the answer.

    Indeed.

    As an aside, can we get rid of this stupid 'year' thing? Just call classes by the rough age of the children within.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,578
    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    nielh said:

    There is better value on the market for next conservative leader, I backed david davis yesterday at 100/1, I would say the true odds are closer to 5/1 given his strong position in the cabinet at the moment. And I can't understand why Johnson is still hanging around as favourite given his ridiculous performance as foreign secretary. The guy is a total clown.

    That is your heart talking not you head. Boris is a massively popular clown, especially with the party in the country, and they are the one's that will be voting for the next leader. He has easily enough support from MPs to get on the ballot.

    But didn't Boris declare to the nation that he wasn't up to being PM when he dipped out in the summer?
    In which case he won't stand. If he stands who is going to beat him, certainly not Davis.
    Priti Patel.

    (I'm sure you all guessed that would be my answer!)
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,703
    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    nielh said:

    There is better value on the market for next conservative leader, I backed david davis yesterday at 100/1, I would say the true odds are closer to 5/1 given his strong position in the cabinet at the moment. And I can't understand why Johnson is still hanging around as favourite given his ridiculous performance as foreign secretary. The guy is a total clown.

    That is your heart talking not you head. Boris is a massively popular clown, especially with the party in the country, and they are the one's that will be voting for the next leader. He has easily enough support from MPs to get on the ballot.

    Including Gove?
    I am not sure he is the only MP that gets a vote.

    .. and Gove would take Boris over Davis any day of the week.
    I meant that Gove was able to sink Boris last time, would he attempt to do so again. He really seemed to think that Boris was not temperamentally suitable to be PM.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,578

    ydoethur said:

    On the thread header - while Galloway would be a perfect fit for Labour's new kinder, gentler politics, as he's a racist, misogynist thug with a huge ego and a tiny brain - there is no prospect of him winning even in London. He has tried before and failed dismally.

    Re grammar schools on the previous thread - I've taught in all types of school one way or another. I'm actually surprised it's as high as 2.6% poor students. It's the middle classes can afford tutors for the 11+, and in any case outside two counties it's pushy parents who are usually affluent who enter their children for the exam anyway.

    There are two necessary corollaries to the return of grammars, one of which we should do anyway:

    1) A maximum class size of 20 (15 in inner cities) to maximise teacher input on children (this will also have the huge advantage of reducing teacher workload and making the profession more attractive);

    2) A massive expansion of middle schools catering for up to year 8 at least. 11 is too young to know who will or will not be really able later (not necessarily those at the top and bottom, but those in the middle). That would then allow the application of the de facto selection that happens in comprehensives at options time, which under the new and extremely content-heavy GCSE will almost certainly be at the end of year 8 in all schools.

    Comprehensive schools are not in and of themselves the problem, and grammar schools alone are not the answer.

    Indeed.

    As an aside, can we get rid of this stupid 'year' thing? Just call classes by the rough age of the children within.
    Get rid of 'key stage' too. If every stage is a key stage, the word key is superfluous.
  • Options

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    nielh said:

    There is better value on the market for next conservative leader, I backed david davis yesterday at 100/1, I would say the true odds are closer to 5/1 given his strong position in the cabinet at the moment. And I can't understand why Johnson is still hanging around as favourite given his ridiculous performance as foreign secretary. The guy is a total clown.

    That is your heart talking not you head. Boris is a massively popular clown, especially with the party in the country, and they are the one's that will be voting for the next leader. He has easily enough support from MPs to get on the ballot.

    Including Gove?
    I am not sure he is the only MP that gets a vote.

    .. and Gove would take Boris over Davis any day of the week.
    I meant that Gove was able to sink Boris last time, would he attempt to do so again. He really seemed to think that Boris was not temperamentally suitable to be PM.
    Can't you work out why? A PM is not an entertainer.

  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095

    Indigo said:

    nielh said:

    There is better value on the market for next conservative leader, I backed david davis yesterday at 100/1, I would say the true odds are closer to 5/1 given his strong position in the cabinet at the moment. And I can't understand why Johnson is still hanging around as favourite given his ridiculous performance as foreign secretary. The guy is a total clown.

    That is your heart talking not you head. Boris is a massively popular clown, especially with the party in the country, and they are the one's that will be voting for the next leader. He has easily enough support from MPs to get on the ballot.

    But didn't Boris declare to the nation that he wasn't up to being PM when he dipped out in the summer?
    But next time Boris will be able to point to a decent stint in Government, overseeing the smooth transition to an independent UK. That wouldn't have been independent without his decisive intervention. Meanwhile, RumpEU collapses into dust, and corporate UK gets to buy the best bits for a song. Cameron and Osborne admit they got it terribly, hopelessly wrong and agree to back him as leader, Cameron from his job as CEO of the Blair Foundation, Osborne from his Himalayan mountain-top Shaolin temple.

    OR...Boris is shit at the job and won't stand.
  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    ydoethur said:

    On the thread header - while Galloway would be a perfect fit for Labour's new kinder, gentler politics, as he's a racist, misogynist thug with a huge ego and a tiny brain - there is no prospect of him winning even in London. He has tried before and failed dismally.

    Re grammar schools on the previous thread - I've taught in all types of school one way or another. I'm actually surprised it's as high as 2.6% poor students. It's the middle classes can afford tutors for the 11+, and in any case outside two counties it's pushy parents who are usually affluent who enter their children for the exam anyway.

    There are two necessary corollaries to the return of grammars, one of which we should do anyway:

    1) A maximum class size of 20 (15 in inner cities) to maximise teacher input on children (this will also have the huge advantage of reducing teacher workload and making the profession more attractive);

    2) A massive expansion of middle schools catering for up to year 8 at least. 11 is too young to know who will or will not be really able later (not necessarily those at the top and bottom, but those in the middle). That would then allow the application of the de facto selection that happens in comprehensives at options time, which under the new and extremely content-heavy GCSE will almost certainly be at the end of year 8 in all schools.

    Comprehensive schools are not in and of themselves the problem, and grammar schools alone are not the answer.

    Indeed.

    As an aside, can we get rid of this stupid 'year' thing? Just call classes by the rough age of the children within.
    Get rid of 'key stage' too. If every stage is a key stage, the word key is superfluous.
    You mean like first form, second form etc.. Remove, Lower fifth, upper fifth, lower sixth upper sixth .. sounds very plausible ..
  • Options
    nielhnielh Posts: 1,307
    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    nielh said:

    There is better value on the market for next conservative leader, I backed david davis yesterday at 100/1, I would say the true odds are closer to 5/1 given his strong position in the cabinet at the moment. And I can't understand why Johnson is still hanging around as favourite given his ridiculous performance as foreign secretary. The guy is a total clown.

    That is your heart talking not you head. Boris is a massively popular clown, especially with the party in the country, and they are the one's that will be voting for the next leader. He has easily enough support from MPs to get on the ballot.

    Including Gove?
    I am not sure he is the only MP that gets a vote.

    .. and Gove would take Boris over Davis any day of the week.
    We'll see. Boris has had it in my view. Admittedly I'm not close to the views of the Tory MP's or the selectorate but I don't think Boris can have a second shot. He's proved that he isn't up to it by chickening out of the leadership, and he's proving as foreign secretary that he can't do a serious job in government. He's well out his depth. We saw him in Warsaw inviting in new generations of Poles and in Ankara promoting Turkey joining the EU post Brexit. The farcical performance at the dispatch box calling for protests outside the Russian embassy was incompetent and foolish. He's lost it. His game plan in the referendum was to position himself for a narrow remain victory. He ended up clinching it for leave and somewhere he desperately doesn't want to be.

    Interesting you mention gove, in my view Gove, Davis and Osborne and Hammond are the contenders for the next Tory leader. they have demonstrated the intellectual aptitude and experience for the task
  • Options

    ydoethur said:

    On the thread header - while Galloway would be a perfect fit for Labour's new kinder, gentler politics, as he's a racist, misogynist thug with a huge ego and a tiny brain - there is no prospect of him winning even in London. He has tried before and failed dismally.

    Re grammar schools on the previous thread - I've taught in all types of school one way or another. I'm actually surprised it's as high as 2.6% poor students. It's the middle classes can afford tutors for the 11+, and in any case outside two counties it's pushy parents who are usually affluent who enter their children for the exam anyway.

    There are two necessary corollaries to the return of grammars, one of which we should do anyway:

    1) A maximum class size of 20 (15 in inner cities) to maximise teacher input on children (this will also have the huge advantage of reducing teacher workload and making the profession more attractive);

    2) A massive expansion of middle schools catering for up to year 8 at least. 11 is too young to know who will or will not be really able later (not necessarily those at the top and bottom, but those in the middle). That would then allow the application of the de facto selection that happens in comprehensives at options time, which under the new and extremely content-heavy GCSE will almost certainly be at the end of year 8 in all schools.

    Comprehensive schools are not in and of themselves the problem, and grammar schools alone are not the answer.

    Indeed.

    As an aside, can we get rid of this stupid 'year' thing? Just call classes by the rough age of the children within.
    Get rid of 'key stage' too. If every stage is a key stage, the word key is superfluous.
    They aren't all key stages. EYFS (Early Years Foundation Stage) which covers up to and including Reception is not a key stage.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,889

    ydoethur said:

    On the thread header - while Galloway would be a perfect fit for Labour's new kinder, gentler politics, as he's a racist, misogynist thug with a huge ego and a tiny brain - there is no prospect of him winning even in London. He has tried before and failed dismally.

    Re grammar schools on the previous thread - I've taught in all types of school one way or another. I'm actually surprised it's as high as 2.6% poor students. It's the middle classes can afford tutors for the 11+, and in any case outside two counties it's pushy parents who are usually affluent who enter their children for the exam anyway.

    There are two necessary corollaries to the return of grammars, one of which we should do anyway:

    1) A maximum class size of 20 (15 in inner cities) to maximise teacher input on children (this will also have the huge advantage of reducing teacher workload and making the profession more attractive);

    2) A massive expansion of middle schools catering for up to year 8 at least. 11 is too young to know who will or will not be really able later (not necessarily those at the top and bottom, but those in the middle). That would then allow the application of the de facto selection that happens in comprehensives at options time, which under the new and extremely content-heavy GCSE will almost certainly be at the end of year 8 in all schools.

    Comprehensive schools are not in and of themselves the problem, and grammar schools alone are not the answer.

    Indeed.

    As an aside, can we get rid of this stupid 'year' thing? Just call classes by the rough age of the children within.
    Get rid of 'key stage' too. If every stage is a key stage, the word key is superfluous.
    You mean like first form, second form etc.. Remove, Lower fifth, upper fifth, lower sixth upper sixth .. sounds very plausible ..
    My school went fourth form, fifth form, divisions, upper sixth.

    I can't remember what lower sixth was called 'divisions'.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,578

    ydoethur said:

    On the thread header - while Galloway would be a perfect fit for Labour's new kinder, gentler politics, as he's a racist, misogynist thug with a huge ego and a tiny brain - there is no prospect of him winning even in London. He has tried before and failed dismally.

    Re grammar schools on the previous thread - I've taught in all types of school one way or another. I'm actually surprised it's as high as 2.6% poor students. It's the middle classes can afford tutors for the 11+, and in any case outside two counties it's pushy parents who are usually affluent who enter their children for the exam anyway.

    There are two necessary corollaries to the return of grammars, one of which we should do anyway:

    1) A maximum class size of 20 (15 in inner cities) to maximise teacher input on children (this will also have the huge advantage of reducing teacher workload and making the profession more attractive);

    2) A massive expansion of middle schools catering for up to year 8 at least. 11 is too young to know who will or will not be really able later (not necessarily those at the top and bottom, but those in the middle). That would then allow the application of the de facto selection that happens in comprehensives at options time, which under the new and extremely content-heavy GCSE will almost certainly be at the end of year 8 in all schools.

    Comprehensive schools are not in and of themselves the problem, and grammar schools alone are not the answer.

    Indeed.

    As an aside, can we get rid of this stupid 'year' thing? Just call classes by the rough age of the children within.
    Get rid of 'key stage' too. If every stage is a key stage, the word key is superfluous.
    They aren't all key stages. EYFS (Early Years Foundation Stage) which covers up to and including Reception is not a key stage.
    Key Stage Zero?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109

    ydoethur said:

    On the thread header - while Galloway would be a perfect fit for Labour's new kinder, gentler politics, as he's a racist, misogynist thug with a huge ego and a tiny brain - there is no prospect of him winning even in London. He has tried before and failed dismally.

    Re grammar schools on the previous thread - I've taught in all types of school one way or another. I'm actually surprised it's as high as 2.6% poor students. It's the middle classes can afford tutors for the 11+, and in any case outside two counties it's pushy parents who are usually affluent who enter their children for the exam anyway.

    There are two necessary corollaries to the return of grammars, one of which we should do anyway:

    1) A maximum class size of 20 (15 in inner cities) to maximise teacher input on children (this will also have the huge advantage of reducing teacher workload and making the profession more attractive);

    2) A massive expansion of middle schools catering for up to year 8 at least. 11 is too young to know who will or will not be really able later (not necessarily those at the top and bottom, but those in the middle). That would then allow the application of the de facto selection that happens in comprehensives at options time, which under the new and extremely content-heavy GCSE will almost certainly be at the end of year 8 in all schools.

    Comprehensive schools are not in and of themselves the problem, and grammar schools alone are not the answer.

    Indeed.

    As an aside, can we get rid of this stupid 'year' thing? Just call classes by the rough age of the children within.
    Get rid of 'key stage' too. If every stage is a key stage, the word key is superfluous.
    You mean like first form, second form etc.. Remove, Lower fifth, upper fifth, lower sixth upper sixth .. sounds very plausible ..
    You'll get no argument from me on either of those.

    To be quite honest, I have long thought the most serious barrier to improving standards and reducing class sizes is the fact that the DfES and Ofsted both have a vested interest in keeping the system in a state of muddle and confusion. That creates work for them and their favoured client groups in the big academy chains, even if it is disastrous for the children of this country. I am contemplating writing a research paper on that calling for them both to be abolished and their necessary functions - which are actually not that many - to be transferred to local authorities and the major universities. But ironically because of their bungling I have no time to criticise their bungling.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,969
    edited October 2016
    Good morning, everyone.

    Whilst I think it unlikely, I do agree 100/1 is too long.

    Edited extra bit: incidentally, the link near the bottom only goes to the Ladbrokes main page not the market itself.
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    nielh said:

    Interesting you mention gove, in my view Gove, Davis and Osborne and Hammond are the contenders for the next Tory leader. they have demonstrated the intellectual aptitude and experience for the task

    Personally I would back Gove all the way, I am just not that sure he has the support to get on the ballot.

    My point about Boris is that he is at heart a liberal, and (setting Europe to one side) basically a Cameroon. If the right of the party selected Davis or Leadsom, there is no way Gove or the like is going to shoot down Boris and let a right winger in.

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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    On the thread header - while Galloway would be a perfect fit for Labour's new kinder, gentler politics, as he's a racist, misogynist thug with a huge ego and a tiny brain - there is no prospect of him winning even in London. He has tried before and failed dismally.

    Re grammar schools on the previous thread - I've taught in all types of school one way or another. I'm actually surprised it's as high as 2.6% poor students. It's the middle classes can afford tutors for the 11+, and in any case outside two counties it's pushy parents who are usually affluent who enter their children for the exam anyway.

    There are two necessary corollaries to the return of grammars, one of which we should do anyway:

    1) A maximum class size of 20 (15 in inner cities) to maximise teacher input on children (this will also have the huge advantage of reducing teacher workload and making the profession more attractive);

    2) A massive expansion of middle schools catering for up to year 8 at least. 11 is too young to know who will or will not be really able later (not necessarily those at the top and bottom, but those in the middle). That would then allow the application of the de facto selection that happens in comprehensives at options time, which under the new and extremely content-heavy GCSE will almost certainly be at the end of year 8 in all schools.

    Comprehensive schools are not in and of themselves the problem, and grammar schools alone are not the answer.

    Indeed.

    As an aside, can we get rid of this stupid 'year' thing? Just call classes by the rough age of the children within.
    Get rid of 'key stage' too. If every stage is a key stage, the word key is superfluous.
    You mean like first form, second form etc.. Remove, Lower fifth, upper fifth, lower sixth upper sixth .. sounds very plausible ..
    You'll get no argument from me on either of those.

    To be quite honest, I have long thought the most serious barrier to improving standards and reducing class sizes is the fact that the DfES and Ofsted both have a vested interest in keeping the system in a state of muddle and confusion. That creates work for them and their favoured client groups in the big academy chains, even if it is disastrous for the children of this country. I am contemplating writing a research paper on that calling for them both to be abolished and their necessary functions - which are actually not that many - to be transferred to local authorities and the major universities. But ironically because of their bungling I have no time to criticise their bungling.
    ...three streams at my school M L and G M modern, L Latin and G German (inc Latin).. These were inevitably called Genius Learned and Moron.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,918
    edited October 2016
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    On the thread header - while Galloway would be a perfect fit for Labour's new kinder, gentler politics, as he's a racist, misogynist thug with a huge ego and a tiny brain - there is no prospect of him winning even in London. He has tried before and failed dismally.


    There are two necessary corollaries to the return of grammars, one of which we should do anyway:

    1) A maximum class size of 20 (15 in inner cities) to maximise teacher input on children (this will also have the huge advantage of reducing teacher workload and making the profession more attractive);

    2) A massive expansion of middle schools catering for up to year 8 at least. 11 is too young to know who will or will not be really able later (not necessarily those at the top and bottom, but those in the middle). That would then allow the application of the de facto selection that happens in comprehensives at options time, which under the new and extremely content-heavy GCSE will almost certainly be at the end of year 8 in all schools.

    Comprehensive schools are not in and of themselves the problem, and grammar schools alone are not the answer.

    Indeed.

    As an aside, can we get rid of this stupid 'year' thing? Just call classes by the rough age of the children within.
    Get rid of 'key stage' too. If every stage is a key stage, the word key is superfluous.
    You mean like first form, second form etc.. Remove, Lower fifth, upper fifth, lower sixth upper sixth .. sounds very plausible ..
    You'll get no argument from me on either of those.

    To be quite honest, I have long thought the most serious barrier to improving standards and reducing class sizes is the fact that the DfES and Ofsted both have a vested interest in keeping the system in a state of muddle and confusion. That creates work for them and their favoured client groups in the big academy chains, even if it is disastrous for the children of this country. I am contemplating writing a research paper on that calling for them both to be abolished and their necessary functions - which are actually not that many - to be transferred to local authorities and the major universities. But ironically because of their bungling I have no time to criticise their bungling.
    Local authorities back in charge, Dr?

    I must say that, listening to my teacher grandchildren I am amazed at how corrupt and nepotic (is that a word?) system seems to be developing, at least in the region where they work.
    I suspect it will not be long before there are calls for the return of soming like LEA’s.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109
    nielh said:


    We'll see. Boris has had it in my view. Admittedly I'm not close to the views of the Tory MP's or the selectorate but I don't think Boris can have a second shot. He's proved that he isn't up to it by chickening out of the leadership, and he's proving as foreign secretary that he can't do a serious job in government. He's well out his depth. We saw him in Warsaw inviting in new generations of Poles and in Ankara promoting Turkey joining the EU post Brexit. The farcical performance at the dispatch box calling for protests outside the Russian embassy was incompetent and foolish. He's lost it. His game plan in the referendum was to position himself for a narrow remain victory. He ended up clinching it for leave and somewhere he desperately doesn't want to be.

    Interesting you mention gove, in my view Gove, Davis and Osborne and Hammond are the contenders for the next Tory leader. they have demonstrated the intellectual aptitude and experience for the task

    Agree re Boris. But surely Hammond and Davis will be too old next time? Davis is 67 and Hammond 61. Assuming May, who is younger than they are, stays any length of time they will be at the stage where they will be seen as past it.

    Not Gove. What he did to teachers in private he has done to Cameron and Johnson in public. The man is a pathological narcissist, backstabber and liar and utterly unfit to hold public office.

    Osborne may be worth a shout especially if things go wrong, and I never thought I'd say that.

    If May is able to in effect nominate her own successor however, there might well be mileage in Karen Bradley, whom she obviously thinks very highly of and would be about the right age and level of experience to take over in 5-6 years time.
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    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351
    Who will stand?

    I suppose you should work on the basis that all MPs are ambitious hypocrites. There may be the occasional exception, but they'll never climb the greasy pole anyway.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109

    Local authorities back in charge, Dr?

    I must say that, listening to my teacher grandchildren I am amazed at how corrupt and nepotic (is that a word?) system seems to be developing, at least in the region where they work.
    I suspect it will not be long before there are calls for the return of soming like LEA’s.

    No - I hated LEAs with a passion. But they are the obvious people to carry out the necessary health and safety checks and safeguarding scrutinies.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    edited October 2016
    Bizarre article
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    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,202
    I thought you were tipping Tony Blair at first glance. Now that might be an interesting 100-1 shot..
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,918
    edited October 2016
    ydoethur said:

    Local authorities back in charge, Dr?

    I must say that, listening to my teacher grandchildren I am amazed at how corrupt and nepotic (is that a word?) system seems to be developing, at least in the region where they work.
    I suspect it will not be long before there are calls for the return of soming like LEA’s.

    No - I hated LEAs with a passion. But they are the obvious people to carry out the necessary health and safety checks and safeguarding scrutinies.
    No view on the corruption and nepotism. Doesn’t appear in areas you know about? Genuine question.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,319
    Terrible bet. I know lots of Corbyn supporters apart from myself. I don't know ANYONE who has a good word to say for George Galloway, because he's seen as an egotistical chancer. I expect there are some, but he's certainly not a potential choice of most left-wing members. As for those who arren't so left-wing, I don't think so!
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    Terrible bet. I know lots of Corbyn supporters apart from myself. I don't know ANYONE who has a good word to say for George Galloway, because he's seen as an egotistical chancer. I expect there are some, but he's certainly not a potential choice of most left-wing members. As for those who arren't so left-wing, I don't think so!

    Galloway is certainly capable of uniting the party.
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    nielhnielh Posts: 1,307
    ydoethur said:

    nielh said:


    We'll see. Boris has had it in my view. Admittedly I'm not close to the views of the Tory MP's or the selectorate but I don't think Boris can have a second shot. He's proved that he isn't up to it by chickening out of the leadership, and he's proving as foreign secretary that he can't do a serious job in government. He's well out his depth. We saw him in Warsaw inviting in new generations of Poles and in Ankara promoting Turkey joining the EU post Brexit. The farcical performance at the dispatch box calling for protests outside the Russian embassy was incompetent and foolish. He's lost it. His game plan in the referendum was to position himself for a narrow remain victory. He ended up clinching it for leave and somewhere he desperately doesn't want to be.

    Interesting you mention gove, in my view Gove, Davis and Osborne and Hammond are the contenders for the next Tory leader. they have demonstrated the intellectual aptitude and experience for the task

    Agree re Boris. But surely Hammond and Davis will be too old next time? Davis is 67 and Hammond 61. Assuming May, who is younger than they are, stays any length of time they will be at the stage where they will be seen as past it.

    Not Gove. What he did to teachers in private he has done to Cameron and Johnson in public. The man is a pathological narcissist, backstabber and liar and utterly unfit to hold public office.

    Osborne may be worth a shout especially if things go wrong, and I never thought I'd say that.

    If May is able to in effect nominate her own successor however, there might well be mileage in Karen Bradley, whom she obviously thinks very highly of and would be about the right age and level of experience to take over in 5-6 years time.
    I am not confident that the May govt will weather the next 6 months. Storm clouds gathering from various directions. They will need to find someone sufficiently competent to implement the brexit decision.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109

    ydoethur said:

    Local authorities back in charge, Dr?

    I must say that, listening to my teacher grandchildren I am amazed at how corrupt and nepotic (is that a word?) system seems to be developing, at least in the region where they work.
    I suspect it will not be long before there are calls for the return of soming like LEA’s.

    No - I hated LEAs with a passion. But they are the obvious people to carry out the necessary health and safety checks and safeguarding scrutinies.
    No view on the corruption and nepotism. Doesn’t appear in areas you know about? Genuine question.
    Not that, just hadn't digested that part of the comment. Have some experience of it, but actually that was again much worse under the old LEAs particularly in the Labour rotten boroughs of South Wales (and London if rumour is to be believed). The key problem with academy chains is that they are completely unaccountable to anyone except the DfES who are totally unqualified to make a judgement in their suitability, even if they were not all in cahoots. That's why I'm horrified at the idea of getting rid of parent governors, which are the last feeble handbrake on their dominance.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109
    Jonathan said:

    Terrible bet. I know lots of Corbyn supporters apart from myself. I don't know ANYONE who has a good word to say for George Galloway, because he's seen as an egotistical chancer. I expect there are some, but he's certainly not a potential choice of most left-wing members. As for those who arren't so left-wing, I don't think so!

    Galloway is certainly capable of uniting the party.
    I do love your dry sarcasm Jonathan!
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    Terrible bet. I know lots of Corbyn supporters apart from myself. I don't know ANYONE who has a good word to say for George Galloway, because he's seen as an egotistical chancer. I expect there are some, but he's certainly not a potential choice of most left-wing members. As for those who arren't so left-wing, I don't think so!

    Totally agree. But, sadly, Jeremy Corbyn is one of the few who do have a good word to say about Galloway. Hopefully, that will not lead to his readmittance into Labour.

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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109
    nielh said:

    ydoethur said:

    nielh said:


    We'll see. Boris has had it in my view. Admittedly I'm not close to the views of the Tory MP's or the selectorate but I don't think Boris can have a second shot. He's proved that he isn't up to it by chickening out of the leadership, and he's proving as foreign secretary that he can't do a serious job in government. He's well out his depth. We saw him in Warsaw inviting in new generations of Poles and in Ankara promoting Turkey joining the EU post Brexit. The farcical performance at the dispatch box calling for protests outside the Russian embassy was incompetent and foolish. He's lost it. His game plan in the referendum was to position himself for a narrow remain victory. He ended up clinching it for leave and somewhere he desperately doesn't want to be.

    Interesting you mention gove, in my view Gove, Davis and Osborne and Hammond are the contenders for the next Tory leader. they have demonstrated the intellectual aptitude and experience for the task

    Agree re Boris. But surely Hammond and Davis will be too old next time? Davis is 67 and Hammond 61. Assuming May, who is younger than they are, stays any length of time they will be at the stage where they will be seen as past it.

    Not Gove. What he did to teachers in private he has done to Cameron and Johnson in public. The man is a pathological narcissist, backstabber and liar and utterly unfit to hold public office.

    Osborne may be worth a shout especially if things go wrong, and I never thought I'd say that.

    If May is able to in effect nominate her own successor however, there might well be mileage in Karen Bradley, whom she obviously thinks very highly of and would be about the right age and level of experience to take over in 5-6 years time.
    I am not confident that the May govt will weather the next 6 months. Storm clouds gathering from various directions. They will need to find someone sufficiently competent to implement the brexit decision.
    Harold Macmillan told the Queen he wouldn't last six weeks. He lasted six and a half years and might have stayed longer had he not believed he was dying. And that was in a far more serious crisis than May faces when there was an obvious popular alternative.

    I think it will take a lot to shift her. It might be different if Boris were a serious contender but he isn't.
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    PaulyPauly Posts: 897
    This alone would be enough to sink your bet (unless you believe the Labour party is irreversibly overrun by anti-Semites)...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-99Ulwjiq2Q
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    nielh said:

    ydoethur said:

    nielh said:


    We'll see. Boris has had it in my view. Admittedly I'm not close to the views of the Tory MP's or the selectorate but I don't think Boris can have a second shot. He's proved that he isn't up to it by chickening out of the leadership, and he's proving as foreign secretary that he can't do a serious job in government. He's well out his depth. We saw him in Warsaw inviting in new generations of Poles and in Ankara promoting Turkey joining the EU post Brexit. The farcical performance at the dispatch box calling for protests outside the Russian embassy was incompetent and foolish. He's lost it. His game plan in the referendum was to position himself for a narrow remain victory. He ended up clinching it for leave and somewhere he desperately doesn't want to be.

    Interesting you mention gove, in my view Gove, Davis and Osborne and Hammond are the contenders for the next Tory leader. they have demonstrated the intellectual aptitude and experience for the task

    Agree re Boris. But surely Hammond and Davis will be too old next time? Davis is 67 and Hammond 61. Assuming May, who is younger than they are, stays any length of time they will be at the stage where they will be seen as past it.

    Not Gove. What he did to teachers in private he has done to Cameron and Johnson in public. The man is a pathological narcissist, backstabber and liar and utterly unfit to hold public office.

    Osborne may be worth a shout especially if things go wrong, and I never thought I'd say that.

    If May is able to in effect nominate her own successor however, there might well be mileage in Karen Bradley, whom she obviously thinks very highly of and would be about the right age and level of experience to take over in 5-6 years time.
    I am not confident that the May govt will weather the next 6 months. Storm clouds gathering from various directions. They will need to find someone sufficiently competent to implement the brexit decision.

    The government will survive only because a credible alternative does not exist. Corbyn Labour is enabling mind-numbing mediocrity. That's good news for May. Very bad news for the country.

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    Galloway.


    Good night out was it?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,899
    More chance of it being Tony Blair !
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109
    Pulpstar said:

    More chance of it being Tony Blair !

    He'd make an excellent mayor as long as he remembered not to invade Reading to get his hands on their technology.
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    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    edited October 2016

    ydoethur said:

    On the thread header - while Galloway would be a perfect fit for Labour's new kinder, gentler politics, as he's a racist, misogynist thug with a huge ego and a tiny brain - there is no prospect of him winning even in London. He has tried before and failed dismally.

    Re grammar schools on the previous thread - I've taught in all types of school one way or another. I'm actually surprised it's as high as 2.6% poor students. It's the middle classes can afford tutors for the 11+, and in any case outside two counties it's pushy parents who are usually affluent who enter their children for the exam anyway.

    There are two necessary corollaries to the return of grammars, one of which we should do anyway:

    1) A maximum class size of 20 (15 in inner cities) to maximise teacher input on children (this will also have the huge advantage of reducing teacher workload and making the profession more attractive);

    2) A massive expansion of middle schools catering for up to year 8 at least. 11 is too young to know who will or will not be really able later (not necessarily those at the top and bottom, but those in the middle). That would then allow the application of the de facto selection that happens in comprehensives at options time, which under the new and extremely content-heavy GCSE will almost certainly be at the end of year 8 in all schools.

    Comprehensive schools are not in and of themselves the problem, and grammar schools alone are not the answer.

    Indeed.

    As an aside, can we get rid of this stupid 'year' thing? Just call classes by the rough age of the children within.
    Get rid of 'key stage' too. If every stage is a key stage, the word key is superfluous.
    They aren't all key stages. EYFS (Early Years Foundation Stage) which covers up to and including Reception is not a key stage.
    Key Stage Zero?
    I think that would be the point of conception. :wink:
  • Options

    nielh said:

    ydoethur said:

    nielh said:


    We'll see. Boris has had it in my view. Admittedly I'm not close to the views of the Tory MP's or the selectorate but I don't think Boris can have a second shot. He's proved that he isn't up to it by chickening out of the leadership, and he's proving as foreign secretary that he can't do a serious job in government. He's well out his depth. We saw him in Warsaw inviting in new generations of Poles and in Ankara promoting Turkey joining the EU post Brexit. The farcical performance at the dispatch box calling for protests outside the Russian embassy was incompetent and foolish. He's lost it. His game plan in the referendum was to position himself for a narrow remain victory. He ended up clinching it for leave and somewhere he desperately doesn't want to be.

    Interesting you mention gove, in my view Gove, Davis and Osborne and Hammond are the contenders for the next Tory leader. they have demonstrated the intellectual aptitude and experience for the task

    Agree re Boris. But surely Hammond and Davis will be too old next time? Davis is 67 and Hammond 61. Assuming May, who is younger than they are, stays any length of time they will be at the stage where they will be seen as past it.

    Not Gove. What he did to teachers in private he has done to Cameron and Johnson in public. The man is a pathological narcissist, backstabber and liar and utterly unfit to hold public office.

    Osborne may be worth a shout especially if things go wrong, and I never thought I'd say that.

    If May is able to in effect nominate her own successor however, there might well be mileage in Karen Bradley, whom she obviously thinks very highly of and would be about the right age and level of experience to take over in 5-6 years time.
    I am not confident that the May govt will weather the next 6 months. Storm clouds gathering from various directions. They will need to find someone sufficiently competent to implement the brexit decision.

    The government will survive only because a credible alternative does not exist. Corbyn Labour is enabling mind-numbing mediocrity. That's good news for May. Very bad news for the country.

    After the Blair/Brown years few if any Labour members want it to be a party of government ever again. Japan coped as a representative democracy for two generations with only one governmental Party - we can do likewise, particularly while the UK is collapsing.

  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095


    After the Blair/Brown years few if any Labour members want it to be a party of government ever again. Japan coped as a representative democracy for two generations with only one governmental Party - we can do likewise, particularly while the UK is collapsing.

    "while the UK is collapsing"

    The wish is father to the thought.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Via 538 - Some selected swing state polling from the IPSOS/Reuters data dump. All samples 850+ and 7-13 Oct.

    AZ - Clinton 39 .. Trump 45
    NC - Clinton 46 .. Trump 42
    OH - Clinton 42 .. Trump 43
    FL - Clinton 48 .. Trump 42
    PA - Clinton 46 .. Trump 42

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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,918

    nielh said:

    ydoethur said:

    nielh said:


    We'll see. Boris has had it in my view. Admittedly I'm not close to the views of the Tory MP's or the selectorate but I don't think Boris can have a second shot. He's proved that he isn't up to it by chickening out of the leadership, and he's proving as foreign secretary that he can't do a serious job in government. He's well out his depth. We saw him in Warsaw inviting in new generations of Poles and in Ankara promoting Turkey joining the EU post Brexit. The farcical performance at the dispatch box calling for protests outside the Russian embassy was incompetent and foolish. He's lost it. His game plan in the referendum was to position himself for a narrow remain victory. He ended up clinching it for leave and somewhere he desperately doesn't want to be.

    Interesting you mention gove, in my view Gove, Davis and Osborne and Hammond are the contenders for the next Tory leader. they have demonstrated the intellectual aptitude and experience for the task

    Agree re Boris. But surely Hammond and Davis will be too old next time? Davis is 67 and Hammond 61. Assuming May, who is younger than they are, stays any length of time they will be at the stage where they will be seen as past it.

    Not Gove. What he did to teachers in private he has done to Cameron and Johnson in public. The man is a pathological narcissist, backstabber and liar and utterly unfit to hold public office.

    Osborne may be worth a shout especially if things go wrong, and I never thought I'd say that.

    If May is able to in effect nominate her own successor however, there might well be mileage in Karen Bradley, whom she obviously thinks very highly of and would be about the right age and level of experience to take over in 5-6 years time.
    I am not confident that the May govt will weather the next 6 months. Storm clouds gathering from various directions. They will need to find someone sufficiently competent to implement the brexit decision.

    The government will survive only because a credible alternative does not exist. Corbyn Labour is enabling mind-numbing mediocrity. That's good news for May. Very bad news for the country.

    After the Blair/Brown years few if any Labour members want it to be a party of government ever again. Japan coped as a representative democracy for two generations with only one governmental Party - we can do likewise, particularly while the UK is collapsing.

    And your assertion is based on what. Doesn’t chime with any or the Party mewmbers I know. And no, I’m not a Labour Party member.
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    Keep taking the mushrooms tablets TSE!
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,793
    I'm not sure the Gorgeous One will ever be Mayor of London...
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,969
    Just a thought, but Corbyn won't be delighted with Khan's criticism. If the former's still there, or his acolytes take the job next, he/they won't want the next Labour candidate (assuming Khan returns to the PLP) to be a vocal critic.
  • Options

    nielh said:

    ydoethur said:

    nielh said:


    We'll see. Boris has had it in my view. Admittedly I'm not close to the views of the Tory MP's or the selectorate but I don't think Boris can have a second shot. He's proved that he isn't up to it by chickening out of the leadership, and he's proving as foreign secretary that he can't do a serious job in government. He's well out his depth. We saw him in Warsaw inviting in new generations of Poles and in Ankara promoting Turkey joining the EU post Brexit. The farcical performance at the dispatch box calling for protests outside the Russian embassy was incompetent and foolish. He's lost it. His game plan in the referendum was to position himself for a narrow remain victory. He ended up clinching it for leave and somewhere he desperately doesn't want to be.

    Interesting you mention gove, in my view Gove, Davis and Osborne and Hammond are the contenders for the next Tory leader. they have demonstrated the intellectual aptitude and experience for the task

    If May is able to in effect nominate her own successor however, there might well be mileage in Karen Bradley, whom she obviously thinks very highly of and would be about the right age and level of experience to take over in 5-6 years time.
    I am not confident that the May govt will weather the next 6 months. Storm clouds gathering from various directions. They will need to find someone sufficiently competent to implement the brexit decision.

    The government will survive only because a credible alternative does not exist. Corbyn Labour is enabling mind-numbing mediocrity. That's good news for May. Very bad news for the country.

    After the Blair/Brown years few if any Labour members want it to be a party of government ever again. Japan coped as a representative democracy for two generations with only one governmental Party - we can do likewise, particularly while the UK is collapsing.

    And your assertion is based on what. Doesn’t chime with any or the Party members I know. And no, I’m not a Labour Party member.
    If the Labour Party members you know voted against Corbyn, fair enough. (Also if they've got problems of their own, I suppose.)

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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,918
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Local authorities back in charge, Dr?

    I must say that, listening to my teacher grandchildren I am amazed at how corrupt and nepotic (is that a word?) system seems to be developing, at least in the region where they work.
    I suspect it will not be long before there are calls for the return of soming like LEA’s.

    No - I hated LEAs with a passion. But they are the obvious people to carry out the necessary health and safety checks and safeguarding scrutinies.
    No view on the corruption and nepotism. Doesn’t appear in areas you know about? Genuine question.
    Not that, just hadn't digested that part of the comment. Have some experience of it, but actually that was again much worse under the old LEAs particularly in the Labour rotten boroughs of South Wales (and London if rumour is to be believed). The key problem with academy chains is that they are completely unaccountable to anyone except the DfES who are totally unqualified to make a judgement in their suitability, even if they were not all in cahoots. That's why I'm horrified at the idea of getting rid of parent governors, which are the last feeble handbrake on their dominance.
    Thank you. Believe your second sentence. And your third bears out the experience of the teachers in my family; to me it seems that there are just too many academies, chains or not, for the DfES to cope with.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,961
    edited October 2016
    On topic, I thought the current kite to be flown by Galloway was that he was going to go to Holyrood to revivify the fortunes of SLab? Still, if we Jocks have to make a sacrifice for the greater good..
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,918

    nielh said:

    ydoethur said:

    nielh said:


    We'll see. Boris has had it in my view. Admittedly I'm not close to the views of the Tory MP's or the selectorate but I don't think Boris can have a second shot. He's proved that he isn't up to it by chickening out of the leadership, and he's proving as foreign secretary that he can't do a serious job in government. He's well out his depth. We saw him in Warsaw inviting in new generations of Poles and in Ankara promoting Turkey joining the EU post Brexit. The farcical performance at the dispatch box calling for protests outside the Russian embassy was incompetent and foolish. He's lost it. His game plan in the referendum was to position himself for a narrow remain victory. He ended up clinching it for leave and somewhere he desperately doesn't want to be.

    Interesting you mention gove, in my view Gove, Davis and Osborne and Hammond are the contenders for the next Tory leader. they have demonstrated the intellectual aptitude and experience for the task

    If May is able to in effect nominate her own successor however, there might well be mileage in Karen Bradley, whom she obviously thinks very highly of and would be about the right age and level of experience to take over in 5-6 years time.
    I am not confident that the May govt will weather the next 6 months. Storm clouds gathering from various directions. They will need to find someone sufficiently competent to implement the brexit decision.

    The government will survive only because a credible alternative does not exist. Corbyn Labour is enabling mind-numbing mediocrity. That's good news for May. Very bad news for the country.

    After the Blair/Brown years few if any Labour members want it to be a party of government ever again. Japan coped as a representative democracy for two generations with only one governmental Party - we can do likewise, particularly while the UK is collapsing.

    And your assertion is based on what. Doesn’t chime with any or the Party members I know. And no, I’m not a Labour Party member.
    If the Labour Party members you know voted against Corbyn, fair enough. (Also if they've got problems of their own, I suppose.)

    Don’t know, TBH. Have never asked, but whether or not, they seem content enough.
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    nielhnielh Posts: 1,307
    edited October 2016




    The government will survive only because a credible alternative does not exist. Corbyn Labour is enabling mind-numbing mediocrity. That's good news for May. Very bad news for the country.

    Not sure I totally agree. A competent (in our terms) opposition led by labour moderates would not necessarily have wide electoral appeal. They would be 'more of the same'. Many northern seats broke 70/30 for leave (alan Johnson, ed milliband, etc).
    I think that starmer and Thornberry are doing well on the brexit brief. Admittedly all other areas of policy are pretty much in chaos.
    I'm afraid that the tories have proved themselves incompetent in government over Brexit. It could ruin them if the Brexit moment passes and they dissolve in to dithering. Look at tory party conference. Lots of tory boys walking round in total confusion. The party have abandoned the free market. What do they stand for? This?

    http://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2016/10/charles-evans-introducing-the-social-conservative-alliance.html

    Are they going to get backers from Business with this ?
    Whats the difference between the anti modern, anti capitalist statist right and Corbyn's international vision of metropolitan socialism?
    Corbyn and Labour have everything to play for. They just need to get their act together.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187
    Nick Clegg showing complete contempt for the electorate. Like all Remainers he falls into the trap of assuming that all people care about is how far the pound in their pocket goes. As if holidays in Spain are all that matter. This is what the elite think the little people care about. No wonder the Lib Dems got smashed last year.

    Oh, Priti Patel on Marr for anyone who likes her.
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    nielh said:




    The government will survive only because a credible alternative does not exist. Corbyn Labour is enabling mind-numbing mediocrity. That's good news for May. Very bad news for the country.

    Not sure I totally agree. A competent (in our terms) opposition led by labour moderates would not necessarily have wide electoral appeal. They would be 'more of the same'. Many northern seats broke 70/30 for leave (alan Johnson, ed milliband, etc).
    I think that starmer and Thornberry are doing well on the brexit brief. Admittedly all other areas of policy are pretty much in chaos.
    I'm afraid that the tories have proved themselves incompetent in government over Brexit. It could ruin them if the Brexit moment passes and they dissolve in to dithering. Look at tory party conference. Lots of tory boys walking round in total confusion. The party have abandoned the free market. What do they stand for? This?

    http://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2016/10/charles-evans-introducing-the-social-conservative-alliance.html

    Are they going to get backers from Business with this ?
    Whats the difference between the anti modern, anti capitalist statist right and Corbyn's international vision of metropolitan socialism?
    Corbyn and Labour have everything to play for. They just need to get their act together.
    It's just another anti-abortion, "white is right" lobby, isn't it? It'll go nowhere.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109

    On topic, I thought the current kite to be flown by Galloway was that he was going to go to Holyrood to revivify the fortunes of SLab? Still, if we Jocks have to make a sacrifice for the greater good..

    Misread that as 'Hollywood', although that actually made more sense than the thought of him sorting SLab.

    I have always admired the courage and self-sacrifice of our Scottish friends and allies, but I hope Galloway doesn't display indefatigability if you get the chance to hammer him to pieces!
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    Indigo said:

    Apropos the discussion about automated cashiers/servers at burger restaurants, that is the tip of the iceberg, check out this technology. What are all the semi-skilled craftsmen going to be doing for a living in a decade time ?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fb4j51Mor20

    Driving round in vans repairing and servicing machines like that.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,267
    Credit where credit is due: TSE had to draft a new thread, at very short notice, due to Boris scuppering his planned one for this morning. And it's entertaining.

    Now, onto the substance: no, and I'm not sure I'd take the bet at 500/1.

    To put this into context, this bet is twice as likely as George Osborne being Prime Minister after the next election.
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    DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    There's £320K at Betfair laying Clinton at 1.18 or 1.19. Clinton now is not a buy.

    Meanwhile, has the anti-Trump effort at the Telegraph slowed to a halt? They copy-and-paste the AP report that "Donald Trump promises closer links to India if elected" without mentioning Trump's business interests in that country.
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    nielhnielh Posts: 1,307
    edited October 2016




    fter the Blair/Brown years few if any Labour members want it to be a party of government ever again. Japan coped as a representative democracy for two generations with only one governmental Party - we can do likewise, particularly while the UK is collapsing.

    Labour have a major problem with its membership. Stupid, stupid system. totally fake democracy. Anyone pays £4.66 per month or and decides the policy. What an utterly shambolic and dysfunctional system. Same weight applied to views of activists, doorknockers, councillors to deluded RT watching clicktivists who never went to a single meeting. Big problem.

    The numbers of the membership mean nothing. 10% of the electorate identify as 'left wing'. so the membership can increase to 2 million, makes no difference to anything.

    Labour sorting itself out means the unions kicking Corbyn in the balls* and sorting out the joke of party democracy. There is of course a role for more involvement of members but there also has to be strategic leadership and direction.

    ( *metaphorically)
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    JackW said:

    Via 538 - Some selected swing state polling from the IPSOS/Reuters data dump. All samples 850+ and 7-13 Oct.

    AZ - Clinton 39 .. Trump 45
    NC - Clinton 46 .. Trump 42
    OH - Clinton 42 .. Trump 43
    FL - Clinton 48 .. Trump 42
    PA - Clinton 46 .. Trump 42

    Factor in some shy Trump supporters and it still looks a contest....
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    nielh said:




    fter the Blair/Brown years few if any Labour members want it to be a party of government ever again. Japan coped as a representative democracy for two generations with only one governmental Party - we can do likewise, particularly while the UK is collapsing.

    Labour have a major problem with its membership. Stupid, stupid system. totally fake democracy. Anyone pays £4.66 per month or and decides the policy. What an utterly shambolic and dysfunctional system. Same weight applied to views of activists, doorknockers, councillors to deluded RT watching clicktivists who never went to a single meeting. Big problem.

    The numbers of the membership mean nothing. 10% of the electorate identify as 'left wing'. so the membership can increase to 2 million, makes no difference to anything.

    Labour sorting itself out means the unions kicking Corbyn in the balls* and sorting out the joke of party democracy. There is of course a role for more involvement of members but there also has to be strategic leadership and direction.

    ( *metaphorically)
    Would any of that increase the proportion of voters who identify as "left wing"? I doubt it.

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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    JackW said:

    Via 538 - Some selected swing state polling from the IPSOS/Reuters data dump. All samples 850+ and 7-13 Oct.

    AZ - Clinton 39 .. Trump 45
    NC - Clinton 46 .. Trump 42
    OH - Clinton 42 .. Trump 43
    FL - Clinton 48 .. Trump 42
    PA - Clinton 46 .. Trump 42

    Trump in Ohio seems a reasonable value bet.

    3/1 at William Hill.

    I see AZ has gone pink again on 538.
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    nielh said:

    Look at tory party conference. Lots of tory boys walking round in total confusion. The party have abandoned the free market. What do they stand for? This?

    You mean people like TSE who might be Tory but are as wet as a haddock's bathing costume are looking aghast that the party seems to have elected a pretty standard country Tory to be in charge. May's high approval rating in the shires and lower rating in the metropolitan areas tells you all you need to know. The metropolitans might be noisy but they are heavily outnumbered by provincial Tories, good luck with displacing May.

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    DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    edited October 2016
    Dromedary said:

    There's £320K at Betfair laying Clinton at 1.18 or 1.19. Clinton now is not a buy.

    Meanwhile, has the anti-Trump effort at the Telegraph slowed to a halt? They copy-and-paste the AP report that "Donald Trump promises closer links to India if elected" without mentioning Trump's business interests in that country.

    In a cover story in Newsweek a month ago, Kurt Eichenwald showed that India, along with South Korea, Turkey, the UAE, the Ukraine, Russia and several others, was one of the countries towards which US foreign policy would be greatly influenced by Trump's private business interests in the event of a Trump presidency.
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    Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632
    edited October 2016
    Sky news informing us that Brexit means the end of British grown vegetables because Britons are too lazy to harvest them if the hardworking osteuropeans go.

    Isnt that, er racist?

    http://news.sky.com/story/fresh-british-veg-could-be-wiped-out-by-brexit-10619637
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Indigo said:

    Apropos the discussion about automated cashiers/servers at burger restaurants, that is the tip of the iceberg, check out this technology. What are all the semi-skilled craftsmen going to be doing for a living in a decade time ?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fb4j51Mor20

    Driving round in vans repairing and servicing machines like that.
    One highly skilled degree level cybernetics engineer employed. A dozen or two semi-skilled frame makers put on the dole.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,969
    Mr. Indigo, axing a leader requires only the desire of the PCP. Grassroots members don't come into it [if the incumbent makes it to the final two, that's also down to the will of the PCP].
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    DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    Indigo said:

    nielh said:

    Look at tory party conference. Lots of tory boys walking round in total confusion. The party have abandoned the free market. What do they stand for? This?

    You mean people like TSE who might be Tory but are as wet as a haddock's bathing costume are looking aghast that the party seems to have elected a pretty standard country Tory to be in charge. May's high approval rating in the shires and lower rating in the metropolitan areas tells you all you need to know. The metropolitans might be noisy but they are heavily outnumbered by provincial Tories, good luck with displacing May.
    Given how she talks about Europe, trying to paper over ever-widening cracks, presenting the image of leadership when there is none - and perhaps none is possible - neither she nor her clown of a Foreign Secretary are likely to be in office a year from now.

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    nielhnielh Posts: 1,307
    tlg86 said:

    Nick Clegg showing complete contempt for the electorate. Like all Remainers he falls into the trap of assuming that all people care about is how far the pound in their pocket goes. As if holidays in Spain are all that matter. This is what the elite think the little people care about. No wonder the Lib Dems got smashed last year.

    Oh, Priti Patel on Marr for anyone who likes her.

    I thought clegg did ok. As soon as prices go up in the shops then the 52% mandate decreases because 5% or whatever of the leave vote decide they have been played and lied to.
    That's why Brexit either happens now or doesn't happen at all.
    Patel struggling with answering questions on brexit. The answer that 'parliament will debate the great repeal bill' is not satisfactory in response to the concerns that are now being raised. They know it. Davis and May know it as well.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    Via 538 - Some selected swing state polling from the IPSOS/Reuters data dump. All samples 850+ and 7-13 Oct.

    AZ - Clinton 39 .. Trump 45
    NC - Clinton 46 .. Trump 42
    OH - Clinton 42 .. Trump 43
    FL - Clinton 48 .. Trump 42
    PA - Clinton 46 .. Trump 42

    Factor in some shy Trump supporters and it still looks a contest....
    They certainly seem shy in early voting and the ABC poll show a sharp decline in enthusiasm for the Donald.

    FOP is the key .... 1,782 mention .. :smile:
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    Dromedary said:

    Indigo said:

    nielh said:

    Look at tory party conference. Lots of tory boys walking round in total confusion. The party have abandoned the free market. What do they stand for? This?

    You mean people like TSE who might be Tory but are as wet as a haddock's bathing costume are looking aghast that the party seems to have elected a pretty standard country Tory to be in charge. May's high approval rating in the shires and lower rating in the metropolitan areas tells you all you need to know. The metropolitans might be noisy but they are heavily outnumbered by provincial Tories, good luck with displacing May.
    Given how she talks about Europe, trying to paper over ever-widening cracks, presenting the image of leadership when there is none - and perhaps none is possible - neither she nor her clown of a Foreign Secretary are likely to be in office a year from now.

    Wishing it so wont make it happen.

    Unless they get the numhers to the 1922 commitee in the next week or two, forget it until nov 2017 which is too late and will give her ample time to go to the country with a snap who runs britain election if push comes to shove.
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    nielhnielh Posts: 1,307

    nielh said:




    fter the Blair/Brown years few if any Labour members want it to be a party of government ever again. Japan coped as a representative democracy for two generations with only one governmental Party - we can do likewise, particularly while the UK is collapsing.

    Labour have a major problem with its membership. Stupid, stupid system. totally fake democracy. Anyone pays £4.66 per month or and decides the policy. What an utterly shambolic and dysfunctional system. Same weight applied to views of activists, doorknockers, councillors to deluded RT watching clicktivists who never went to a single meeting. Big problem.

    The numbers of the membership mean nothing. 10% of the electorate identify as 'left wing'. so the membership can increase to 2 million, makes no difference to anything.

    Labour sorting itself out means the unions kicking Corbyn in the balls* and sorting out the joke of party democracy. There is of course a role for more involvement of members but there also has to be strategic leadership and direction.

    ( *metaphorically)
    Would any of that increase the proportion of voters who identify as "left wing"? I doubt it.

    no but we are talking about a 'least worst option' decision. If the tories are anti business then there is an opening for labour.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I like a long shot bet but I'm not tempted by this one.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    Via 538 - Some selected swing state polling from the IPSOS/Reuters data dump. All samples 850+ and 7-13 Oct.

    AZ - Clinton 39 .. Trump 45
    NC - Clinton 46 .. Trump 42
    OH - Clinton 42 .. Trump 43
    FL - Clinton 48 .. Trump 42
    PA - Clinton 46 .. Trump 42

    Trump in Ohio seems a reasonable value bet.

    3/1 at William Hill.

    I see AZ has gone pink again on 538.
    Trading at Ohio 3/1 is ok. AZ will be tight. If pushed I'd say Clinton and McCain will prevail.
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    Via 538 - Some selected swing state polling from the IPSOS/Reuters data dump. All samples 850+ and 7-13 Oct.

    AZ - Clinton 39 .. Trump 45
    NC - Clinton 46 .. Trump 42
    OH - Clinton 42 .. Trump 43
    FL - Clinton 48 .. Trump 42
    PA - Clinton 46 .. Trump 42

    Factor in some shy Trump supporters and it still looks a contest....
    They certainly seem shy in early voting and the ABC poll show a sharp decline in enthusiasm for the Donald.

    FOP is the key .... 1,782 mention .. :smile:
    Do u know if there's any more state polls coming out today?
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Dromedary said:

    Indigo said:

    nielh said:

    Look at tory party conference. Lots of tory boys walking round in total confusion. The party have abandoned the free market. What do they stand for? This?

    You mean people like TSE who might be Tory but are as wet as a haddock's bathing costume are looking aghast that the party seems to have elected a pretty standard country Tory to be in charge. May's high approval rating in the shires and lower rating in the metropolitan areas tells you all you need to know. The metropolitans might be noisy but they are heavily outnumbered by provincial Tories, good luck with displacing May.
    Given how she talks about Europe, trying to paper over ever-widening cracks, presenting the image of leadership when there is none - and perhaps none is possible - neither she nor her clown of a Foreign Secretary are likely to be in office a year from now.

    Good luck with that. Some of the Tory party might not like her, but if it comes to a choice of supporting her, or being out of office, which one do you think they are going to pick ?
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    nielhnielh Posts: 1,307
    Indigo said:

    nielh said:

    Look at tory party conference. Lots of tory boys walking round in total confusion. The party have abandoned the free market. What do they stand for? This?

    You mean people like TSE who might be Tory but are as wet as a haddock's bathing costume are looking aghast that the party seems to have elected a pretty standard country Tory to be in charge. May's high approval rating in the shires and lower rating in the metropolitan areas tells you all you need to know. The metropolitans might be noisy but they are heavily outnumbered by provincial Tories, good luck with displacing May.

    yeah but its this wing of the party that have been electorally unsuccessful and that will continue to be the case with this new agenda. Nothing for its backers in business.
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Mr. Indigo, axing a leader requires only the desire of the PCP. Grassroots members don't come into it [if the incumbent makes it to the final two, that's also down to the will of the PCP].

    I am aware of that, however with the imminent downsizing of parliament and the concomitant reselections and competition for seats, how many MPs are going to be in the mood for rubbing their constituency party the wrong way ?
This discussion has been closed.