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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Anatomy of parts of the biggest ever political betting event

SystemSystem Posts: 11,007
edited November 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Anatomy of parts of the biggest ever political betting event

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  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    First, like Trump!
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,793
    Hilary on now
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,249
    She's holding it together well.
  • Options
    Isn't every pound on Clinton matched by a pound against?
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,793
    Where's Bill?
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    ate Cohn ‏@Nate_Cohn 53m53 minutes ago Manhattan, NY

    Pretty incredible that Clinton's two losses--the '08 dem. primary (arguable, to be fair) and 2016--were popular vote victories
  • Options
    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,287
    Keeps nodding for some odd reason.

    Has listed the special interest groups, who helped her lose.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,914
    edited November 2016
    Voter turnouts this century for Presidential elections
    2008 - 62.2%
    2004 - 60.7%
    2012 - 58.6%
    2016 - 55.8%
    2000 - 55.3%

    The little people spoke out loudest in 2012 and 2004. This year, not so much.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,793
    edited November 2016
    Matthew Parris seems to be suggesting we turn back the clock 150 years and take the vote away from the riff-raff

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/11/can-trust-people-trump-im-no-longer-sure/
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,249
    Bill in the background I wonder what he's thinking.

    Of course Kevin Spacey and Robin Page are watching this open-mouthed.
  • Options
    RobD said:

    First, like Trump!

    Hillary first in the popular vote? ;)
  • Options
    jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,261
    So visible the difference between her and Trump as a political performer, just wasn't enough...
  • Options
    Do we have a firm figure on turnout - would make quite a different to my otherwise subdued night.
  • Options
    GIN1138 said:

    Where's Bill?

    Feel a teeny bit sorry for Bill. In 2000, he saw his Veep fail to win the Presidency, despite winning the popular vote. Now, the same thing has happened to his wife...

    Hillary = Al Gore.
  • Options
    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,287

    GIN1138 said:

    Where's Bill?

    Feel a teeny bit sorry for Bill. In 2000, he saw his Veep fail to win the Presidency, despite winning the popular vote. Now, the same thing has happened to his wife...

    Hillary = Al Gore.
    Both won popular vote, but lost Electoral College.
  • Options

    Voter turnouts this century for Presidential elections
    2008 - 62.2%
    2004 - 60.7%
    2012 - 58.6%
    2016 - 55.8%
    2000 - 55.3%

    The little people spoke out loudest in 2012 and 2004. This year, not so much.

    If turnout was down, maybe it was Bernie supporters who sat on their hands. The trouble with Clinton/Blairite triangulation is the supporters you take for granted and whose needs you ignore are not compelled to vote.
  • Options

    Voter turnouts this century for Presidential elections
    2008 - 62.2%
    2004 - 60.7%
    2012 - 58.6%
    2016 - 55.8%
    2000 - 55.3%

    The little people spoke out loudest in 2012 and 2004. This year, not so much.

    2008 and 2004, surely?
  • Options
    She's going on about identity politics, she still doesn't get that people have had their fill of that stuff.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,249
    $550m on the campaign, can't get a good sound engineer.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,644
    GIN1138 said:

    Matthew Parris seems to be suggesting we turn back the close 150 years and take the vote away from the riff-raff

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/11/can-trust-people-trump-im-no-longer-sure/

    Don't forget old people shouldn't vote either, according to some.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799
    edited November 2016
    GIN1138 said:

    Matthew Parris seems to be suggesting we turn back the close 150 years and take the vote away from the riff-raff

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/11/can-trust-people-trump-im-no-longer-sure/

    Deny people the option of pursuing political change peacefully, by voting, and eventually they will pursue it violently. What conservative would want that?

    Following on, the moderate, enlightened, rational, civilised politicians in the West have given us, variously, the Euro, the Banking Crisis, the Iraq War, mass migration, and supranational government.

    Is it any wonder that lots of people want to try alternatives?
  • Options
    dr_spyn said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Where's Bill?

    Feel a teeny bit sorry for Bill. In 2000, he saw his Veep fail to win the Presidency, despite winning the popular vote. Now, the same thing has happened to his wife...

    Hillary = Al Gore.
    Both won popular vote, but lost Electoral College.
    That's precisely what I meant!
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,793

    GIN1138 said:

    Where's Bill?

    Feel a teeny bit sorry for Bill. In 2000, he saw his Veep fail to win the Presidency, despite winning the popular vote. Now, the same thing has happened to his wife...

    Hillary = Al Gore.
    Presumably this brings the curtain down on the Clinton era (unless Chelsea has a run in 20 years)
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,644
    Sean_F said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Matthew Parris seems to be suggesting we turn back the close 150 years and take the vote away from the riff-raff

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/11/can-trust-people-trump-im-no-longer-sure/

    Deny people the option of pursuing political change peacefully, by voting, and eventually they will pursue it violently.
    Hard as it is to be on the losing side, as long as people think they can win next time, or the time after that, things will be all right.
  • Options
    GIN1138 said:

    Matthew Parris seems to be suggesting we turn back the close 150 years and take the vote away from the riff-raff

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/11/can-trust-people-trump-im-no-longer-sure/

    That it is Matthew Parris should remind us that there are veyr many on the right, not least in the Republican Party itself, to whom Trump is anathema. It is not just those snobby lefties on the telly.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,644
    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Where's Bill?

    Feel a teeny bit sorry for Bill. In 2000, he saw his Veep fail to win the Presidency, despite winning the popular vote. Now, the same thing has happened to his wife...

    Hillary = Al Gore.
    Presumably this brings the curtain down on the Clinton era (unless Chelsea has a run in 20 years)
    I'm just wondering what Trump's win will have done for George P Bush's chances.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    She's not a great public speaker is she.
  • Options

    GIN1138 said:

    Matthew Parris seems to be suggesting we turn back the close 150 years and take the vote away from the riff-raff

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/11/can-trust-people-trump-im-no-longer-sure/

    That it is Matthew Parris should remind us that there are veyr many on the right, not least in the Republican Party itself, to whom Trump is anathema. It is not just those snobby lefties on the telly.
    Matthew Parris is a centrist. He was a RHINO Conservative.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Seems the lesson, like with Brexit, is that look at the number of bets rather than the size of them.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    She's going on about identity politics, she still doesn't get that people have had their fill of that stuff.

    worse, what use is identity politics if a chunk of the black electorate wont turn out to vote for a white candidate ?
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,793
    edited November 2016
    Sean_F said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Matthew Parris seems to be suggesting we turn back the close 150 years and take the vote away from the riff-raff

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/11/can-trust-people-trump-im-no-longer-sure/

    Deny people the option of pursuing political change peacefully, by voting, and eventually they will pursue it violently. What conservative would want that?
    Indeed. Democracy exists to prevent political argument turning into political violence.

    I'm sure Parris knows this but for people like him it's been a VERY traumatic six months... I can understand if the trauma of it all has sent him a bit loopy.
  • Options
    I hope that Sporting Index will be hosting a spectacular celebratory shindig at which those of us who made outstanding contributions to that profit will be duly plied with Champagne!
  • Options
    Speedy said:

    Seems the lesson, like with Brexit, is that look at the number of bets rather than the size of them.

    It's because Trump was longer, people targeting the similar sort of return.
  • Options
    TOPPING said:

    Bill in the background I wonder what he's thinking.

    "I did not have sex with that woman".
  • Options
    jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,261
    MaxPB said:

    She's not a great public speaker is she.

    Compared to Trump she's in a completely different league.
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,549
    kle4 said:

    I'm just wondering what Trump's win will have done for George P Bush's chances.

    If there is any sense in American politics it has killed it. When the same families keep reappearing what message does that send to the electorate? Candidates should be selected on merit, not because they are the progeny or spouse of another politician.
  • Options

    TOPPING said:

    Bill in the background I wonder what he's thinking.

    "I did not have sex with that woman".
    Actually, it was: "I did not have sexual relations with that woman".
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,644
    edited November 2016
    glw said:

    kle4 said:

    I'm just wondering what Trump's win will have done for George P Bush's chances.

    If there is any sense in American politics it has killed it. When the same families keep reappearing what message does that send to the electorate? Candidates should be selected on merit, not because they are the progeny or spouse of another politician.
    Honestly, Obama just ruined everything - we could have gone Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton-Bush.

    Honestly though, maybe its not as prevalent as it sometimes seem, but it does feel sometimes like they really like their dynasties over there.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    kle4 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Matthew Parris seems to be suggesting we turn back the close 150 years and take the vote away from the riff-raff

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/11/can-trust-people-trump-im-no-longer-sure/

    Don't forget old people shouldn't vote either, according to some.
    They should be allowed to vote obviously - we are not barbarians. Just their vote shouldn't be worth as much as a young person's. Especially not at a referendum,
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    No doubt now that Clinton wins the popular vote. She's ahead by 200,000 with more to come from California.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,027
    kle4 said:

    glw said:

    kle4 said:

    I'm just wondering what Trump's win will have done for George P Bush's chances.

    If there is any sense in American politics it has killed it. When the same families keep reappearing what message does that send to the electorate? Candidates should be selected on merit, not because they are the progeny or spouse of another politician.
    Honestly, Obama just ruined everything - we could have gone Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton-Bush.
    It would have only been a matter of time before intermarriage and the creation of an absolute monarchy.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    GIN1138 said:

    Matthew Parris seems to be suggesting we turn back the close 150 years and take the vote away from the riff-raff

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/11/can-trust-people-trump-im-no-longer-sure/

    That it is Matthew Parris should remind us that there are veyr many on the right, not least in the Republican Party itself, to whom Trump is anathema. It is not just those snobby lefties on the telly.
    NeverTrump's never mattered much, Trump GOP voters didn't abandon him even at the worst parts.

    Ana Navaro for instance probably didn't shift a single vote in Florida apart from her own.

    And look at the humiliating number of votes for Eggs McMuffin outside of Utah.
  • Options
    kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Matthew Parris seems to be suggesting we turn back the close 150 years and take the vote away from the riff-raff

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/11/can-trust-people-trump-im-no-longer-sure/

    Deny people the option of pursuing political change peacefully, by voting, and eventually they will pursue it violently.
    Hard as it is to be on the losing side, as long as people think they can win next time, or the time after that, things will be all right.
    (A repost)

    People say a 50-50ish election result shows a country is "divided". But in many ways it at least shows two evenly matched sides who could both have had a chance of victory.

    A 60-40 or 70-30 split is in many ways more divisive. The victor has no need to appeal to the 30% or 40% - they don't need the votes. So why reach out to them? Stuff 'em.

    And the losers have no sense that they could win by democratic means. It would require a huge swing. They have no buy-in to The System. Then you are forced to look for ways of having your voice heard beyond the ballot. Things get pretty dangerous at that point.

    You often see this pattern in developing countries, particularly with imbalanced social or ethnic groups. The US has done very well, given its demographics, has done very well to avoid this kind of division. If we had 60-40 splits primarily based on racial polarisation, that would be a far more divided country than a 50-50 one.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799
    kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Matthew Parris seems to be suggesting we turn back the close 150 years and take the vote away from the riff-raff

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/11/can-trust-people-trump-im-no-longer-sure/

    Deny people the option of pursuing political change peacefully, by voting, and eventually they will pursue it violently.
    Hard as it is to be on the losing side, as long as people think they can win next time, or the time after that, things will be all right.
    There's a quote I rather enjoy from a Cape Colony politician in the 1840's (at a time when the Cape had a liberal franchise that included a large number of black and Coloured voters). "I'd rather face the Hottentot on the Hustings than on the Battlefield," in the face of calls to disenfranchise non-White voters. It proved very prescient in relation to Southern Africa, but is really true generally. Non-democratic States see far more political violence than democracies do.
  • Options
    Sporting Index reporting a six figure profit, will Paddy Power be doing the same I wonder?
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Also speculation about turnout being low in 2016 looks wrong:

    https://twitter.com/Nate_Cohn/status/796396102450696192
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,644
    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Matthew Parris seems to be suggesting we turn back the close 150 years and take the vote away from the riff-raff

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/11/can-trust-people-trump-im-no-longer-sure/

    Deny people the option of pursuing political change peacefully, by voting, and eventually they will pursue it violently.
    Hard as it is to be on the losing side, as long as people think they can win next time, or the time after that, things will be all right.
    There's a quote I rather enjoy from a Cape Colony politician in the 1840's (at a time when the Cape had a liberal franchise that included a large number of black and Coloured voters). "I'd rather face the Hottentot on the Hustings than on the Battlefield," in the face of calls to disenfranchise non-White voters. It proved very prescient in relation to Southern Africa, but is really true generally. Non-democratic States see far more political violence than democracies do.
    And why it is hard for many places to transition to true democracies - they may have elections, but in many there is a genuine fear if they lose they will suffer more than merely embarrassment and policies they don't agree with, so they have to cling on.
  • Options

    Voter turnouts this century for Presidential elections
    2008 - 62.2%
    2004 - 60.7%
    2012 - 58.6%
    2016 - 55.8%
    2000 - 55.3%

    The little people spoke out loudest in 2012 and 2004. This year, not so much.

    2008 and 2004, surely?

    Whoops!

  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited November 2016

    TOPPING said:

    Bill in the background I wonder what he's thinking.

    "I did not have sex with that woman".
    Actually, it was: "I did not have sexual relations with that woman".
    Which to older generations was true. What Bill, Monica and the cigar did was heavy petting and that did not count as sex. In an age when contraceptives were at best unreliable, that distinction mattered. To those people, Bill told the truth.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Speedy said:

    Also speculation about turnout being low in 2016 looks wrong:

    https://twitter.com/Nate_Cohn/status/796396102450696192

    I was trying to tell that to SouthamObserver on the previous thread.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943
    edited November 2016
    kle4 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Where's Bill?

    Feel a teeny bit sorry for Bill. In 2000, he saw his Veep fail to win the Preside
    Hillary = Al Gore.
    Presumably this brings the curtain down on the Clinton era (unless Chelsea has a run in 20 years)
    I'm just wondering what Trump's win will have done for George P Bush's chances.
    He is still under 40 so you never know but really he was supposed to be the moderate, pro Hispanic appealing face the GOP needed to return to power after two further defeats to Hillary. Now Trump has shown the GOP can win on a protectionist, anti immigration, nationalist platform there is little room in the GOP for the likes of George P Bush for the immediate future. Hillary's defeat is also bad news for Chelsea, the Democrats will now likely switch to leftwing populism, another centrist Clinton will not be in demand
  • Options
    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869
    edited November 2016
    I went to bed last night just before midnight, after reading that Mrs Clinton would certainly win.

    I took it for granted that she had, until I logged on here again to find that Mr Trump has won. Oops.

    I do hope all those PBers with money at stake didn't go to bed when I did!

    (edited to add: good evening, everyone)
  • Options
    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956
    Trump losing the popular vote but efficiently sneaking over the line in the right places begs a question; is this business about him having zero ground game BS, or did he just get lucky?
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    I still can't quite believe what happened last night - it's the third all-nighter that's taken many by surprise or at least left us pinching ourselves as the good news rolled in.

    What a year - and there's so much fun to be had next year with a bunch of Euro elections.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,692

    kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Matthew Parris seems to be suggesting we turn back the close 150 years and take the vote away from the riff-raff

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/11/can-trust-people-trump-im-no-longer-sure/

    Deny people the option of pursuing political change peacefully, by voting, and eventually they will pursue it violently.
    Hard as it is to be on the losing side, as long as people think they can win next time, or the time after that, things will be all right.
    (A repost)

    People say a 50-50ish election result shows a country is "divided". But in many ways it at least shows two evenly matched sides who could both have had a chance of victory.

    A 60-40 or 70-30 split is in many ways more divisive. The victor has no need to appeal to the 30% or 40% - they don't need the votes. So why reach out to them? Stuff 'em.

    And the losers have no sense that they could win by democratic means. It would require a huge swing. They have no buy-in to The System. Then you are forced to look for ways of having your voice heard beyond the ballot. Things get pretty dangerous at that point.

    You often see this pattern in developing countries, particularly with imbalanced social or ethnic groups. The US has done very well, given its demographics, has done very well to avoid this kind of division. If we had 60-40 splits primarily based on racial polarisation, that would be a far more divided country than a 50-50 one.
    A 0.7% swing to the Democrats would win it for them next time, based on yesterday's results, I think. Entirely competitive. While there were greater swings against them in the North, they improved their situation a bit in the south and in the big cities.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,321

    dr_spyn said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Where's Bill?

    Feel a teeny bit sorry for Bill. In 2000, he saw his Veep fail to win the Presidency, despite winning the popular vote. Now, the same thing has happened to his wife...

    Hillary = Al Gore.
    Both won popular vote, but lost Electoral College.
    That's precisely what I meant!
    There's £1309 available on BF at 1.01 on "win election but lose popular vote", if anyone wants to both with the 1% return (not bad for a week or so before it's finalised).
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,644
    edited November 2016
    Alistair said:

    kle4 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Matthew Parris seems to be suggesting we turn back the close 150 years and take the vote away from the riff-raff

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/11/can-trust-people-trump-im-no-longer-sure/

    Don't forget old people shouldn't vote either, according to some.
    They should be allowed to vote obviously - we are not barbarians. Just their vote shouldn't be worth as much as a young person's. Especially not at a referendum,
    Where do you draw the line? Within five years of life expectancy then your vote only counts half as much at a GE? Referendums can be once in a lifetime, but in Quebec they had two on the same basic issue within 15 years, how old would have been ok to have started reducing their vote worth?

    I get the point about older people not having to live with the consequences long term, and how that might be frustrating, but it seems to be the danger of unfairness from attempting to draw the line would be far higher than the iniquity of one adult gets one vote, even if said adult will be around for less time.

    Particularly when the real problem is not that old people vote one way and young people another, but that young people don't bother to turn out. That is a far bigger problem, and one which has annoyed me through to now as I prepare to exit my 20s.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,027
    Essexit said:

    Trump losing the popular vote but efficiently sneaking over the line in the right places begs a question; is this business about him having zero ground game BS, or did he just get lucky?

    Given that Trump's been teasing a presidential run since the late 80s it's reasonable to assume he's put an awful lot of thought into his strategy. Beating all comers as an insurgent is an unprecedented achievement.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Essexit said:

    Trump losing the popular vote but efficiently sneaking over the line in the right places begs a question; is this business about him having zero ground game BS, or did he just get lucky?

    If there is a real movement towards one direction no matter of obstacles will prevent it.
  • Options
    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited November 2016

    She's going on about identity politics, she still doesn't get that people have had their fill of that stuff.

    This is why she was the wrong candidate. It's pretty clear that this election was won on rustbelt economics.
  • Options

    Sporting Index reporting a six figure profit, will Paddy Power be doing the same I wonder?

    I think they have already said they lost big-time.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187

    She's going on about identity politics, she still doesn't get that people have had their fill of that stuff.

    worse, what use is identity politics if a chunk of the black electorate wont turn out to vote for a white candidate ?
    This inconvenient truth might result in the Dems looking for another black candidate in 2020. Michelle Obama?
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,916
    kle4 said:

    Alistair said:

    kle4 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Matthew Parris seems to be suggesting we turn back the close 150 years and take the vote away from the riff-raff

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/11/can-trust-people-trump-im-no-longer-sure/

    Don't forget old people shouldn't vote either, according to some.
    They should be allowed to vote obviously - we are not barbarians. Just their vote shouldn't be worth as much as a young person's. Especially not at a referendum,
    Where do you draw the line? Within five years of life expectancy then your vote only counts half as much at a GE? Referendums can be once in a lifetime, but in Quebec they had two on the same basic issue within 15 years, how old would have been ok to have started reducing their vote worth?

    I get the point about older people not having to live with the consequences long term, and how that might be frustrating, but it seems to be the danger of unfairness from attempting to draw the line would be far higher than the iniquity of one adult gets one vote, even if said adult will be around for less time.

    Particularly when the real problem is not that old people vote one way and young people another, but that young people didn't bother to turn out. That is a far bigger problem, and one which has annoyed me through to now as I prepare to exit my 20s.
    Youngster!
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,793
    Any chance for Michelle Obama to have a run against Donald in 2020?
  • Options
    GIN1138 said:

    Matthew Parris seems to be suggesting we turn back the clock 150 years and take the vote away from the riff-raff

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/11/can-trust-people-trump-im-no-longer-sure/

    He's not saying that at all. He's saying that the mob-like feeding frenzies on social media have given public opinion, and by implication democracy itself, a bad reputation and tested his faith in his fellow man.
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    The next act? GE 2020? UKIP.

    (((Rob Ford))) ‏@robfordmancs 30m30 minutes ago
    (((Rob Ford))) Retweeted (((Rob Ford)))
    If your a Lab MP representing a Northern seat that voted Brexit, those vote patterns should rightly terrify you.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,225

    Sporting Index reporting a six figure profit, will Paddy Power be doing the same I wonder?

    I think they have already said they lost big-time.
    It being rather hard to avoid if you pay out on both horses in a two-horse race
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,916
    GIN1138 said:

    Any chance for Michelle Obama to have a run against Donald in 2020?

    No chance IMO. Why would she put herself through it, and what would it say about the Dems if 'yet more of the same' is all they can offer?
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    nielhnielh Posts: 1,307
    I'm strangely relaxed, almost relieved by this outcome.
    The status quo represented by Clinton was not an appealing option so I can understand the appeal of Trump. He may of course be a catastrophe and lead us into world war 3.
    But of the two, Clinton seems more likely to go down that road
    , attempting to preserve a broken hegenomy.
    I think there is a silent frustration with the extremes of identity politics, social justice warriors etc. I feel it. There is some satisfaction with nutcase feminists, Islamic fundamentalists taking a kicking. It was all going too far.
    I would have voted Clinton regardless, for the same reasons I voted remain. But the status quo isn't working.
    At least no one can say politicians are all the same, its boring etc.
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    Essexit said:

    Trump losing the popular vote but efficiently sneaking over the line in the right places begs a question; is this business about him having zero ground game BS, or did he just get lucky?

    Given that Trump's been teasing a presidential run since the late 80s it's reasonable to assume he's put an awful lot of thought into his strategy. Beating all comers as an insurgent is an unprecedented achievement.
    To paraphrase a bit:

    It took 24 years to count the votes and Ross Perot and Pat Buchanan won.

    The populist wave was coming for a long time, Trump just rode it straight to the most powerful political office in the world.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,027
    tlg86 said:

    She's going on about identity politics, she still doesn't get that people have had their fill of that stuff.

    worse, what use is identity politics if a chunk of the black electorate wont turn out to vote for a white candidate ?
    This inconvenient truth might result in the Dems looking for another black candidate in 2020. Michelle Obama?
    If Trump delivers on some of his promises you might find the AA vote continues to swing in his direction, even running against Michelle. Percentages of the kind Obama got in a two way race in a functioning democracy are unsustainable.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943
    tlg86 said:

    She's going on about identity politics, she still doesn't get that people have had their fill of that stuff.

    worse, what use is identity politics if a chunk of the black electorate wont turn out to vote for a white candidate ?
    This inconvenient truth might result in the Dems looking for another black candidate in 2020. Michelle Obama?
    A leftwing populist will be the frontrunner, if they are African American too that could be an advantage in the primaries
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Essexit said:

    Trump losing the popular vote but efficiently sneaking over the line in the right places begs a question; is this business about him having zero ground game BS, or did he just get lucky?

    He had some very sharp people around him - and he clearly listens to advice. I saw an intv on MSNBC with a GOP GOTV coordinator for Georgia. He was excellent and said that they'd massively invested in their ground game nationally, after getting seriously burned last time.

    I totally believed him - and of course the Deplorable Militia were arm twisting/giving lifts all on their own. There was a lovely anecdote from Amish country re needing a lift to the polling place. 1500 car drivers came forward to take them.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,923
    One man be truly overjoyed this morning, his knowing he will be in work for the next four years:

    Alec Baldwin
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited November 2016

    The next act? GE 2020? UKIP.

    (((Rob Ford))) ‏@robfordmancs 30m30 minutes ago
    (((Rob Ford))) Retweeted (((Rob Ford)))
    If your a Lab MP representing a Northern seat that voted Brexit, those vote patterns should rightly terrify you.

    Indeed, Corbyn should try to be a bit more Bernie Sanders rather just a clear cut old style socialist.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,027
    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    She's going on about identity politics, she still doesn't get that people have had their fill of that stuff.

    worse, what use is identity politics if a chunk of the black electorate wont turn out to vote for a white candidate ?
    This inconvenient truth might result in the Dems looking for another black candidate in 2020. Michelle Obama?
    A leftwing populist will be the frontrunner, if they are African American too that could be an advantage in the primaries
    Or Latino? Maybe they can find a natural born Hugo Chavez. :)
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Essexit said:

    Trump losing the popular vote but efficiently sneaking over the line in the right places begs a question; is this business about him having zero ground game BS, or did he just get lucky?

    Neither. He was able to win the Rust Belt states by small margins while losing California, New York and Illinois by large ones.
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    Nate Cohn, NYT:

    "The Wyoming River Valley of Pennsylvania — which includes Scranton and Wilkes-Barre — voted for Mr. Trump. It had voted for Mr. Obama by double digits."

    Biden would have held Penn imho. That would given 248-259 on current results if nothing else changed.
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    She's going on about identity politics, she still doesn't get that people have had their fill of that stuff.

    worse, what use is identity politics if a chunk of the black electorate wont turn out to vote for a white candidate ?
    This inconvenient truth might result in the Dems looking for another black candidate in 2020. Michelle Obama?
    A leftwing populist will be the frontrunner, if they are African American too that could be an advantage in the primaries
    Liza Warren.

    It screams Liza Warren.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Speedy said:
    Remain Tories aligning with remain Labour. The likes of Jobabob loving Osborne is the same as GOP voters in OC.
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    Astonishingly biased vox pops on BBC 5 O'Clock News. About 10 quiet reflective disappointed Democrats, 2 nasty vindictive Republicans
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    JasonJason Posts: 1,614

    She's going on about identity politics, she still doesn't get that people have had their fill of that stuff.

    The left will never accept any other ideology than identity politics and the culture of victimhood. It's the reason why they infantilise their supporters, from cradle to grave. It is corrosive, it is destructive, it is stupid beyond belief, and it will consign them to electoral oblivion right across Western democracies.
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    dr_spyn said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Where's Bill?

    Feel a teeny bit sorry for Bill. In 2000, he saw his Veep fail to win the Presidency, despite winning the popular vote. Now, the same thing has happened to his wife...

    Hillary = Al Gore.
    Both won popular vote, but lost Electoral College.
    That's precisely what I meant!
    There's £1309 available on BF at 1.01 on "win election but lose popular vote", if anyone wants to both with the 1% return (not bad for a week or so before it's finalised).
    1.01 on the Trump & Clnton electoral vote markets as well.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,027
    MaxPB said:

    Remain Tories aligning with remain Labour. The likes of Jobabob loving Osborne is the same as GOP voters in OC.

    More accurately: Eurosceptic Tories aligning with UKIP and hard-left socialists.
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    rcs1000 said:

    One man be truly overjoyed this morning, his knowing he will be in work for the next four years:

    Alec Baldwin

    "He's the best actor in the world." - Gary from "Team America".
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    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956
    Speedy said:

    Essexit said:

    Trump losing the popular vote but efficiently sneaking over the line in the right places begs a question; is this business about him having zero ground game BS, or did he just get lucky?

    If there is a real movement towards one direction no matter of obstacles will prevent it.
    But there wasn't a huge movement, he lost the popular vote. The distribution of the votes he had was smart enough for a comfortable ECV win, which is either the result of smart planning and targeting, or blind luck, or some combination thereof.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,916
    rcs1000 said:

    One man be truly overjoyed this morning, his knowing he will be in work for the next four years:

    Alec Baldwin

    R5L interviewed a Trump impersonator earlier, who was rather happy with the result! He claimed to have known Trump would win (from memory) before he even officially stood, from the reaction he was getting from the crowd.
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    Mr. Gin, Polybius believed that democracy would inevitably give way to anarchy/mob rule.

    Good evening, Miss JGP.
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    Looks like Wyoming was the most pro-Trump state, 70%!

    Hawaii was the most pro-Hillary state, 62% (excluding DC's 92%!).
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Jason said:

    She's going on about identity politics, she still doesn't get that people have had their fill of that stuff.

    The left will never accept any other ideology than identity politics and the culture of victimhood. It's the reason why they infantilise their supporters, from cradle to grave. It is corrosive, it is destructive, it is stupid beyond belief, and it will consign them to electoral oblivion right across Western democracies.
    I thoroughly enjoyed this debate between Milo and Stefan Molyneux on identity politics and free-stuff/infantilisation of the electorate. Milo is growing on me - he can be very sharp and funny.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVYI9HO6aF0
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited November 2016
    Essexit said:

    Speedy said:

    Essexit said:

    Trump losing the popular vote but efficiently sneaking over the line in the right places begs a question; is this business about him having zero ground game BS, or did he just get lucky?

    If there is a real movement towards one direction no matter of obstacles will prevent it.
    But there wasn't a huge movement, he lost the popular vote. The distribution of the votes he had was smart enough for a comfortable ECV win, which is either the result of smart planning and targeting, or blind luck, or some combination thereof.
    Re-alignment, lot's of shifts left and right.

    Trump won the E.V by the largest margin for a Republican since 1988.
    Dominated the Mid-West almost as good as Reagan in 1984, that's a decisive shift in one large region.
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    OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,913
    GIN1138 said:

    Sean_F said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Matthew Parris seems to be suggesting we turn back the close 150 years and take the vote away from the riff-raff

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/11/can-trust-people-trump-im-no-longer-sure/

    Deny people the option of pursuing political change peacefully, by voting, and eventually they will pursue it violently. What conservative would want that?
    Indeed. Democracy exists to prevent political argument turning into political violence.

    I'm sure Parris knows this but for people like him it's been a VERY traumatic six months... I can understand if the trauma of it all has sent him a bit loopy.
    So what would today have been like if Trump had won the popular vote but lost the EC? What would he have been saying in his speech? Inciting people to take to the streets - almost certainly because that's what he was saying prior to the vote even happening.

    Trump and people like yourself would have been yelling about a "rigged election" and "the will of the people being frustrated" by the "elite" blah blah blah. The comical thing is you don't even recognise your own hypocrisy.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    MaxPB said:

    Remain Tories aligning with remain Labour. The likes of Jobabob loving Osborne is the same as GOP voters in OC.

    More accurately: Eurosceptic Tories aligning with UKIP and hard-left socialists.
    Not if Trump was Brexit, this was traditional GOP going for "remain Clinton".
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    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    tlg86 said:

    She's going on about identity politics, she still doesn't get that people have had their fill of that stuff.

    worse, what use is identity politics if a chunk of the black electorate wont turn out to vote for a white candidate ?
    This inconvenient truth might result in the Dems looking for another black candidate in 2020. Michelle Obama?
    A leftwing populist will be the frontrunner, if they are African American too that could be an advantage in the primaries
    Liza Warren.

    It screams Liza Warren.
    If you mean Elizabeth Warren then she'll be 71 by next election.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Obama is speechifying again. He's talking about Hillary in the past tense as if she's dead.
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    glwglw Posts: 9,549

    Looks like Wyoming was the most pro-Trump state, 70%!

    Lots of coal and gas there.
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    PlatoSaid said:

    Obama is speechifying again. He's talking about Hillary in the past tense as if she's dead.

    Politically, she is. Two runs. Lost both. 70 years old.
This discussion has been closed.