Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » ComRes Indy/SMirror poll finds sharp rise in the economic trus

SystemSystem Posts: 11,682
edited November 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » ComRes Indy/SMirror poll finds sharp rise in the economic trust lead for May/Hamond over Corbyn/McDonnell

Ahead of the Autumn statement, May & Hammond are seen as much more trusted on the than both Corbyn & McDonnell and Cameron & Osborne.

Read the full story here


«13

Comments

  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    Oh dear. Poor Osborne....
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,854
    FPT (and apologies):

    Back to slightly more relevant matters and the ongoing A50/Brexit argument.

    I voted LEAVE on June 23rd and don't regret doing so at the moment but I voted for the process rather than necessarily the outcome by which I mean I gave my trust to the Government (led by David Cameron at the time) to begin and take forward the process of withdrawing Britain from membership of the European Union.

    Implicit in that (or so I thought) was the notion said Government would seek to obtain the best deal for the people of the United Kingdom (rather than just the Conservative Party).

    Equally implicit on a personal level was the hope said outcome or new Treaty would be put to the British people either via a second referendum or as part of a General Election.

    The terms on which we leave - the terms on which the Britain of the 2020s and beyond will conduct its economic affairs not just with the EU but with the rest of the world - are important and will define the kind of nation we will be for the rest of the first half of this century.

    For me, that Treaty requires proper scrutiny and consideration not just in Parliament but beyond. That means the May Government needing to say what would happen if the Treaty was rejected either in parliament or by referendum or in a General Election.

    I think Tim Farron (and let's do the man the simple courtesy of getting his name right) is wrong to hang A50 on the promise of a second referendum once the Treaty has been agreed.
    The vote to LEAVE, whatever the legalistic nuances being offered, was for me and for most people an unequivocal signal to begin a process. What it wasn't was carte blanche support for whatever hard boiled, soft shoe shuffle or half baked Brexit negotiated by her Government.

    To be honest, if May was any kind of leader or politician, she would gladly offer the British people the opportunity to approve or reject the post-EU Treaty in a referendum in June 2019 and explain clearly what she would do if the Treaty was rejected.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,435
    edited November 2016
    Paging Justin

    This ComRes poll DOES NOT include a full voting intention question, so please don't misrepresent the data tables, again.
  • Options

    Oh dear. Poor Osborne....

    If Brexit does turn into an economic mistake, watch Osborne's number surge rapider than a 19 year old chap's libido after months of not getting any.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,854
    Oh Dear, a lot of people obviously heard Trump on Wednesday morning and believe once we've left Europe, we can gorge ourselves on borrowing for major infrastructure projects and public spending.

    Imagine if a Labour Chancellor suggested big capital spending and increasing public spending.

    But Hammond's a Conservative so that's all right, isn't it ?

    Do we still have a very large debt to service and deficit to manage or have we forgotten all about it or have the Conservatives started believing in the Magic Money Tree too ?
  • Options
    For Article 50 court case watchers, from the ComRes press release..

    Over half of Britons say that MPs should follow the referendum result and vote for the UK to leave the EU when they vote on it in Parliament, whilst three in ten state that MPs should vote in accordance with their own judgement (57% v 30%).

    · Briton’s are divided regarding whether the government should prioritise maintaining access to the single market so Britain can have free trade with the EU or prioritise reducing immigration from the EU (42% v 43%).
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Masterly inactivity vindicated.

    The interesting thing will be the reaction to the autumn statement.

    How can anyone judge May and Hammond on the economy while we are still running on Osborne and Carney?
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Even split on single market vs immigration restrictions.
  • Options
    JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    stodge said:

    Oh Dear, a lot of people obviously heard Trump on Wednesday morning and believe once we've left Europe, we can gorge ourselves on borrowing for major infrastructure projects and public spending.

    Imagine if a Labour Chancellor suggested big capital spending and increasing public spending.

    But Hammond's a Conservative so that's all right, isn't it ?

    Do we still have a very large debt to service and deficit to manage or have we forgotten all about it or have the Conservatives started believing in the Magic Money Tree too ?

    They may well believe in the MMT now, but, it's the public's perception who can best manage the MMT. A lot more people believe the Tories can manage it better than Labour can. And they are absolutely right to do so.
  • Options
    stodge said:

    Oh Dear, a lot of people obviously heard Trump on Wednesday morning and believe once we've left Europe, we can gorge ourselves on borrowing for major infrastructure projects and public spending.

    Imagine if a Labour Chancellor suggested big capital spending and increasing public spending.

    But Hammond's a Conservative so that's all right, isn't it ?

    Do we still have a very large debt to service and deficit to manage or have we forgotten all about it or have the Conservatives started believing in the Magic Money Tree too ?

    It's one of those only Nixon could go to China moments.
  • Options
    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,288
    stodge said:

    Oh Dear, a lot of people obviously heard Trump on Wednesday morning and believe once we've left Europe, we can gorge ourselves on borrowing for major infrastructure projects and public spending.

    Imagine if a Labour Chancellor suggested big capital spending and increasing public spending.

    But Hammond's a Conservative so that's all right, isn't it ?

    Do we still have a very large debt to service and deficit to manage or have we forgotten all about it or have the Conservatives started believing in the Magic Money Tree too ?

    Let's wait and see what Hammond actually announces - I suspect he'll be a fair bit more cautious than some people are expecting (and hoping).
  • Options
    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,288
    "Trump's victory is a welcome distraction to politics as usual" - 26%

    Does this possibly suggest somewhat of an over-reaction by commentators peddling the lines "rebellion against elites", "anti-establishment" etc etc.

    I think it's often the case that people go out of their way to look for themes which they like to fit events.

    There wasn't much of a rebellion against the elite at our GE 2015.

    Different events happen for different reasons, things often come together by chance / random events.
  • Options
    midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112

    Oh dear. Poor Osborne....

    If Brexit does turn into an economic mistake, watch Osborne's number surge rapider than a 19 year old chap's libido after months of not getting any.
    Indeed. However the loons on the right will never forgive him if/when he's proved to be right about Brexit and the left will always hate him regardless so he'll probably never get the ratings he deserves

    Whatever, we owe him for stabilising our finances. How quickly people forget what he inherited in 2010. Shame it might all be wasted.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    The MSM conspiracy against Jeremy and the people's Chancellor continues.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005
    2 key points from this poll. First 1% more voters back hard Brexit than soft Brexit and second most think it will be easier to do a trade deal with President Trump even if they don't like him
  • Options
    stodge said:

    Oh Dear, a lot of people obviously heard Trump on Wednesday morning and believe once we've left Europe, we can gorge ourselves on borrowing for major infrastructure projects and public spending.

    Imagine if a Labour Chancellor suggested big capital spending and increasing public spending.

    But Hammond's a Conservative so that's all right, isn't it ?

    Do we still have a very large debt to service and deficit to manage or have we forgotten all about it or have the Conservatives started believing in the Magic Money Tree too ?

    'Started' believing in the magic money tree ???

    Osborne borrowed £225bn more than he said he would.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,854
    MikeL said:



    Let's wait and see what Hammond actually announces - I suspect he'll be a fair bit more cautious than some people are expecting (and hoping).

    The deficit for 2016-17 is going to come in at around £65-£70 billion and debt is now an eyewatering 83% of GDP and this under a Conservative Government which is meant to be the model of fiscal rectitude.

    Yes, the deficit figures have come down from the awful numbers inherited by the Coalition in 2010 and there are some encouraging signs on the tax take from the City and elsewhere but overall the public finances are still in a mess and Hammond really has no room for giveaways or the like (even if that were his preference).

    Some may think there's a pot of gold at the end of the Brexit rainbow - I take the view we haven't got a pot to pass in (or something like that).

  • Options
    TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,662
    MaxPB said:

    Even split on single market vs immigration restrictions.

    For the government trying to identify a negotiating strategy that is by far the most dangerous statistic in this poll. Unless they can convince us we can have both then roughly half the electorate are going to be disappointed. Assuming we can believe the polls, of course!
  • Options
    More apt for David's thread

    So Front National, what like the KKK, first attracted you to Donald Trump?

    https://twitter.com/Marion_M_Le_Pen/status/797489987583438852
  • Options
    midwinter said:

    Oh dear. Poor Osborne....

    If Brexit does turn into an economic mistake, watch Osborne's number surge rapider than a 19 year old chap's libido after months of not getting any.
    Indeed. However the loons on the right will never forgive him if/when he's proved to be right about Brexit and the left will always hate him regardless so he'll probably never get the ratings he deserves

    Whatever, we owe him for stabilising our finances. How quickly people forget what he inherited in 2010. Shame it might all be wasted.
    " Public sector net debt as a share of GDP will be 62 per cent this year, before peaking at 70 per cent in 2013-14. Because of our action today, it then begins to fall, to 69 per cent in 2014-15 and then 67 per cent in 2015-16. "

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/budget/7846849/Budget-2010-Full-text-of-George-Osbornes-statement.html

    Public sector net debt as a share of GDP currently stands at 83.3%.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicsectorfinance/timeseries/hf6x/pusf

    Would any of the Osborne fans like my share of his extra debt ?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,992
    HYUFD said:

    2 key points from this poll. First 1% more voters back hard Brexit than soft Brexit and second most think it will be easier to do a trade deal with President Trump even if they don't like him

    I suspect 70% of people (rather than 43%) would agree with the statement "would you support a form of Brexit that curtailed low skilled immigration, but which gave British firms full access to the single market".
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Lot's of D/K in the questions.

    One of the polling errors from 2016 came from a lot of people being too shy to express their opinion that was controversial.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,854


    Public sector net debt as a share of GDP currently stands at 83.3%.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicsectorfinance/timeseries/hf6x/pusf

    Would any of the Osborne fans like my share of his extra debt ?

    The point for me is Trumpist populism is predicated on huge amounts of additional borrowing on infrastructure projects in a desperate attempt to lure companies back to the Rust belt and other parts of rural and semi-rural America.

    There were echoes in May's language about wanting to be a Government for all - do Conservatives now believing throwing money at problems solves them ? I'm sure they didn't think that way in Thatcher's time.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    2 key points from this poll. First 1% more voters back hard Brexit than soft Brexit and second most think it will be easier to do a trade deal with President Trump even if they don't like him

    I suspect 70% of people (rather than 43%) would agree with the statement "would you support a form of Brexit that curtailed low skilled immigration, but which gave British firms full access to the single market".
    Only 70% ?
  • Options
    FluffyThoughtsFluffyThoughts Posts: 2,420
    edited November 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    2 key points from this poll. First 1% more voters back hard Brexit than soft Brexit and second most think it will be easier to do a trade deal with President Trump even if they don't like him

    I suspect 70% of people (rather than 43%) would agree with the statement "would you support a form of Brexit that curtailed low skilled immigration, but which gave British firms full access to the single market".
    Or world markets: On our terms and not some dodgy consultant from 'Goldmann Suchs'. The Single-Market gives us a shyte result however you choose to polish it....
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    MikeL said:

    "Trump's victory is a welcome distraction to politics as usual" - 26%

    Does this possibly suggest somewhat of an over-reaction by commentators peddling the lines "rebellion against elites", "anti-establishment" etc etc.

    I think it's often the case that people go out of their way to look for themes which they like to fit events.

    There wasn't much of a rebellion against the elite at our GE 2015.

    Different events happen for different reasons, things often come together by chance / random events.

    Not true. UKIP won over 100 seats at that election, surely?
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    stodge said:


    Public sector net debt as a share of GDP currently stands at 83.3%.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicsectorfinance/timeseries/hf6x/pusf

    Would any of the Osborne fans like my share of his extra debt ?

    The point for me is Trumpist populism is predicated on huge amounts of additional borrowing on infrastructure projects in a desperate attempt to lure companies back to the Rust belt and other parts of rural and semi-rural America.

    There were echoes in May's language about wanting to be a Government for all - do Conservatives now believing throwing money at problems solves them ? I'm sure they didn't think that way in Thatcher's time.
    Trump's Populism has deeper historical roots, here read this:

    https://twitter.com/BuzzFeedBen/status/797147249113530368

    It's the Economy stupid.
    It's the Economy stupid.
    It's the Economy stupid.

    Not the headline economic numbers, but people's personal finances.
    Some people thought Obama was a terrorist, they still voted for him for their wallet.
  • Options
    This draft facility should be canned. Maybe someone should unzip and Python the feature....
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited November 2016
    stodge said:

    MikeL said:



    Let's wait and see what Hammond actually announces - I suspect he'll be a fair bit more cautious than some people are expecting (and hoping).

    The deficit for 2016-17 is going to come in at around £65-£70 billion and debt is now an eyewatering 83% of GDP and this under a Conservative Government which is meant to be the model of fiscal rectitude.

    Yes, the deficit figures have come down from the awful numbers inherited by the Coalition in 2010 and there are some encouraging signs on the tax take from the City and elsewhere but overall the public finances are still in a mess and Hammond really has no room for giveaways or the like (even if that were his preference).

    Some may think there's a pot of gold at the end of the Brexit rainbow - I take the view we haven't got a pot to pass in (or something like that).

    If we have an expansionary autumn statement with money for health, housing and infrastructure from bean counter Hammond the surely that means a spring election.?
  • Options
    stodge said:


    Public sector net debt as a share of GDP currently stands at 83.3%.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicsectorfinance/timeseries/hf6x/pusf

    Would any of the Osborne fans like my share of his extra debt ?

    The point for me is Trumpist populism is predicated on huge amounts of additional borrowing on infrastructure projects in a desperate attempt to lure companies back to the Rust belt and other parts of rural and semi-rural America.

    There were echoes in May's language about wanting to be a Government for all - do Conservatives now believing throwing money at problems solves them ? I'm sure they didn't think that way in Thatcher's time.
    In Thatcher's time I think there was always a willingness to channel government money towards favoured groups - house buyers, small businesses, inward investors - but more as 'financial lubrication' to help kickstart economic progress.

    The mentality now is to splurge vast government spending to a party's client state - public sector workers under Labour and pensioners under the Conservatives - to keep their own voters consuming and voting loyally.

    A change from economic progress giving electoral benefits to the electoral dimension being the focus of the economic policy.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,942

    stodge said:

    MikeL said:



    Let's wait and see what Hammond actually announces - I suspect he'll be a fair bit more cautious than some people are expecting (and hoping).

    The deficit for 2016-17 is going to come in at around £65-£70 billion and debt is now an eyewatering 83% of GDP and this under a Conservative Government which is meant to be the model of fiscal rectitude.

    Yes, the deficit figures have come down from the awful numbers inherited by the Coalition in 2010 and there are some encouraging signs on the tax take from the City and elsewhere but overall the public finances are still in a mess and Hammond really has no room for giveaways or the like (even if that were his preference).

    Some may think there's a pot of gold at the end of the Brexit rainbow - I take the view we haven't got a pot to pass in (or something like that).

    If we have an expansionary autumn statement with money for health, housing and infrastructure from bean counter Hammond the surely that means a spring election.?

    stodge said:

    MikeL said:



    Let's wait and see what Hammond actually announces - I suspect he'll be a fair bit more cautious than some people are expecting (and hoping).

    The deficit for 2016-17 is going to come in at around £65-£70 billion and debt is now an eyewatering 83% of GDP and this under a Conservative Government which is meant to be the model of fiscal rectitude.

    Yes, the deficit figures have come down from the awful numbers inherited by the Coalition in 2010 and there are some encouraging signs on the tax take from the City and elsewhere but overall the public finances are still in a mess and Hammond really has no room for giveaways or the like (even if that were his preference).

    Some may think there's a pot of gold at the end of the Brexit rainbow - I take the view we haven't got a pot to pass in (or something like that).

    If we have an expansionary autumn statement with money for health, housing and infrastructure from bean counter Hammond the surely that means a spring election.?
    There won't be an election till we have proper boundary reform.
  • Options
    How are we STILL believing in polls?
  • Options
    Speedy said:

    stodge said:


    Public sector net debt as a share of GDP currently stands at 83.3%.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicsectorfinance/timeseries/hf6x/pusf

    Would any of the Osborne fans like my share of his extra debt ?

    The point for me is Trumpist populism is predicated on huge amounts of additional borrowing on infrastructure projects in a desperate attempt to lure companies back to the Rust belt and other parts of rural and semi-rural America.

    There were echoes in May's language about wanting to be a Government for all - do Conservatives now believing throwing money at problems solves them ? I'm sure they didn't think that way in Thatcher's time.
    Trump's Populism has deeper historical roots, here read this:

    https://twitter.com/BuzzFeedBen/status/797147249113530368

    It's the Economy stupid.
    It's the Economy stupid.
    It's the Economy stupid.

    Not the headline economic numbers, but people's personal finances.
    Some people thought Obama was a terrorist, they still voted for him for their wallet.
    Take it from them and give it to me.

    The USA has become a country which takes from the average person and gives it to the 1%.

    The average person wants a government which takes from the 1% and gives it to them.

    This from 2013 shows how Obama failed to do that:

    ' Incomes among the richest fell more than 36% between 2007-09, compared with a decrease of 11.6% for the rest of Americans. But in the last three years, 95% of all income gains have gone to the richest 1%. '

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24039202
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    Speedy said:

    stodge said:


    Public sector net debt as a share of GDP currently stands at 83.3%.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicsectorfinance/timeseries/hf6x/pusf

    Would any of the Osborne fans like my share of his extra debt ?

    The point for me is Trumpist populism is predicated on huge amounts of additional borrowing on infrastructure projects in a desperate attempt to lure companies back to the Rust belt and other parts of rural and semi-rural America.

    There were echoes in May's language about wanting to be a Government for all - do Conservatives now believing throwing money at problems solves them ? I'm sure they didn't think that way in Thatcher's time.
    Trump's Populism has deeper historical roots, here read this:

    https://twitter.com/BuzzFeedBen/status/797147249113530368

    It's the Economy stupid.
    It's the Economy stupid.
    It's the Economy stupid.

    Not the headline economic numbers, but people's personal finances.
    Some people thought Obama was a terrorist, they still voted for him for their wallet.
    Take it from them and give it to me.

    The USA has become a country which takes from the average person and gives it to the 1%.

    The average person wants a government which takes from the 1% and gives it to them.

    This from 2013 shows how Obama failed to do that:

    ' Incomes among the richest fell more than 36% between 2007-09, compared with a decrease of 11.6% for the rest of Americans. But in the last three years, 95% of all income gains have gone to the richest 1%. '

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24039202
    Indeed, that's why the Democrats lost.

    Remember the term Champagne Socialist?
    Now we have a new term, Limousine Liberal, exhibit A:

    https://twitter.com/Vision365/status/797276626388209664
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282
    stodge said:

    Oh Dear, a lot of people obviously heard Trump on Wednesday morning and believe once we've left Europe, we can gorge ourselves on borrowing for major infrastructure projects and public spending.

    Imagine if a Labour Chancellor suggested big capital spending and increasing public spending.

    But Hammond's a Conservative so that's all right, isn't it ?

    Do we still have a very large debt to service and deficit to manage or have we forgotten all about it or have the Conservatives started believing in the Magic Money Tree too ?

    The austerity route out of the crisis is finished, both here and in the US.

    We're now about to embark on a massive experiment in Keynesian reflation (forgetting, as people always seem to, the bit about paying it back in the good times, to worry about if ever that time comes).

    Meanwhile the Japanese financial jiggery-pokery stuff will, despite May's justifiable anxiety, either continue, or at least be kept very close at hand for the minute things start to look difficult.
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited November 2016

    How are we STILL believing in polls?

    The trick isn't to believe them at face value - it's to look at them and then move the outcome several points away from ''the left' and to 'the right'.

  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited November 2016
    chestnut said:

    How are we STILL believing in polls?

    The trick isn't to believe them at face value - it's to look at them and then move the outcome several points away from ''the left' and to 'the right'.

    Actually I think when we have a lot of D/K we should move a few of them to the side of the most controversial view.

    There is a high chance the D/K simply hide their controversial views in public.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282
    Mortimer said:

    stodge said:

    MikeL said:



    Let's wait and see what Hammond actually announces - I suspect he'll be a fair bit more cautious than some people are expecting (and hoping).

    The deficit for 2016-17 is going to come in at around £65-£70 billion and debt is now an eyewatering 83% of GDP and this under a Conservative Government which is meant to be the model of fiscal rectitude.

    Yes, the deficit figures have come down from the awful numbers inherited by the Coalition in 2010 and there are some encouraging signs on the tax take from the City and elsewhere but overall the public finances are still in a mess and Hammond really has no room for giveaways or the like (even if that were his preference).

    Some may think there's a pot of gold at the end of the Brexit rainbow - I take the view we haven't got a pot to pass in (or something like that).

    If we have an expansionary autumn statement with money for health, housing and infrastructure from bean counter Hammond the surely that means a spring election.?

    stodge said:

    MikeL said:



    Let's wait and see what Hammond actually announces - I suspect he'll be a fair bit more cautious than some people are expecting (and hoping).

    The deficit for 2016-17 is going to come in at around £65-£70 billion and debt is now an eyewatering 83% of GDP and this under a Conservative Government which is meant to be the model of fiscal rectitude.

    Yes, the deficit figures have come down from the awful numbers inherited by the Coalition in 2010 and there are some encouraging signs on the tax take from the City and elsewhere but overall the public finances are still in a mess and Hammond really has no room for giveaways or the like (even if that were his preference).

    Some may think there's a pot of gold at the end of the Brexit rainbow - I take the view we haven't got a pot to pass in (or something like that).

    If we have an expansionary autumn statement with money for health, housing and infrastructure from bean counter Hammond the surely that means a spring election.?
    There won't be an election till we have proper boundary reform.
    There won't be an election until either the government ends up completely stuck on Brexit, or the card becomes less valuable in her hand than played. At the moment she is at least pretending they know how to take Brexit forward, and the card has huge potential value both as deterrent to the opposition and because by 2019 she may well need to fall back on it.
  • Options
    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820

    How are we STILL believing in polls?

    47% of PBers believe in Opinion polls.

    It must be said that these PBers believe that correct interpretation of opinion polls (spotting incorrect methodology and systematic bias) is the better tool.
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Speedy said:

    chestnut said:

    How are we STILL believing in polls?

    The trick isn't to believe them at face value - it's to look at them and then move the outcome several points away from ''the left' and to 'the right'.

    Actually I think when we have a lot of D/K we should move a few of them to the side of the most controversial view.

    There is a high chance the D/K simply hide their controversial views in public.
    Yes, there's some merit in that.

    More people hold taboo opinions than they will freely admit in polite company or to pollsters.
  • Options

    MikeL said:

    "Trump's victory is a welcome distraction to politics as usual" - 26%

    Does this possibly suggest somewhat of an over-reaction by commentators peddling the lines "rebellion against elites", "anti-establishment" etc etc.

    I think it's often the case that people go out of their way to look for themes which they like to fit events.

    There wasn't much of a rebellion against the elite at our GE 2015.

    Different events happen for different reasons, things often come together by chance / random events.

    Not true. UKIP won over 100 seats at that election, surely?
    UKIP were the largest party with the most MEPs at the European elections. Nigel Farage remains their leader at the EU Parliament.
  • Options
    MikeL said:

    "Trump's victory is a welcome distraction to politics as usual" - 26%

    Does this possibly suggest somewhat of an over-reaction by commentators peddling the lines "rebellion against elites", "anti-establishment" etc etc.

    I think it's often the case that people go out of their way to look for themes which they like to fit events.

    There wasn't much of a rebellion against the elite at our GE 2015.

    Different events happen for different reasons, things often come together by chance / random events.


    The hoi polloi don't know who or what the elite is/are.
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Scotland subsample; MPs should vote to leave EU rather than follow own leanings = 49-40
  • Options
    PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    midwinter said:

    Indeed. However the loons on the right will never forgive him if/when he's proved to be right about Brexit and the left will always hate him regardless so he'll probably never get the ratings he deserves

    Whatever, we owe him for stabilising our finances. How quickly people forget what he inherited in 2010. Shame it might all be wasted.

    Yes, the country does owe quite a lot to the Lib Dem - Conservative Coalition Government.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    2 key points from this poll. First 1% more voters back hard Brexit than soft Brexit and second most think it will be easier to do a trade deal with President Trump even if they don't like him

    I suspect 70% of people (rather than 43%) would agree with the statement "would you support a form of Brexit that curtailed low skilled immigration, but which gave British firms full access to the single market".
    Yes but that will not be on offer
  • Options
    PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    Speedy said:

    Remember the term Champagne Socialist?
    Now we have a new term, Limousine Liberal, exhibit A:
    https://twitter.com/Vision365/status/797276626388209664

    Are you an American, Mr Speedy? Your use of terms of abuse is not usual outside Trump-land.
  • Options
    john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    edited November 2016
    @foxinsoxuk

    'Not true. UKIP won over 100 seats at that election, surely?'


    Can you remind us of how many seats the Lib Dem eurofanatics won at the last EU election .

  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,992
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    2 key points from this poll. First 1% more voters back hard Brexit than soft Brexit and second most think it will be easier to do a trade deal with President Trump even if they don't like him

    I suspect 70% of people (rather than 43%) would agree with the statement "would you support a form of Brexit that curtailed low skilled immigration, but which gave British firms full access to the single market".
    Yes but that will not be on offer
    Of course it's on offer. The only question is what the price is.
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited November 2016
    The details within the poll look pretty grim for the Lib Dem euro-led recovery strategy.

    The subsets that are broadly sympathetic are under 35, Scotland and London, so the obstacles they need to overcome are tuition fees, the SNP/Greens and Corbyn Central.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,942
    IanB2 said:

    Mortimer said:

    stodge said:

    MikeL said:



    Let's wait and see what Hammond actually announces - I suspect he'll be a fair bit more cautiou...

    The deficit for 2016-17 is going to come in at around £65-£70 billion and debt is now an eyewatering 83% of GDP and this under a Conservative Government which is meant to be the model of fiscal rectitude.

    Yes, the deficit figures have come down from the awful numbers inherited by the Coalition in 2010 and there are some encouraging signs on the tax take from the City and elsewhere but overall the public finances are still in a mess and Hammond really has no room for giveaways or the like (even if that were his preference).

    Some may think there's a pot of gold at the end of the Brexit rainbow - I take the view we haven't got a pot to pass in (or something like that).

    If we have an expansionary autumn statement with money for health, housing and infrastructure from bean counter Hammond the surely that means a spring election.?

    stodge said:

    MikeL said:



    Let's wait and see what Hammond actually announces - I suspect he'll be a fair bit more cautious than some people are expecting (and hoping).

    The deficit for 2016-17 is going to come in at around £65-£70 billion and debt is now an eyewatering 83% of GDP and this under a Conservative Government which is meant to be the model of fiscal rectitude.

    Yes, the deficit figures have come down from the awful numbers inherited by the Coalition in 2010 and there are some encouraging signs on the tax take from the City and elsewhere but overall the public finances are still in a mess and Hammond really has no room for giveaways or the like (even if that were his preference).

    Some may think there's a pot of gold at the end of the Brexit rainbow - I take the view we haven't got a pot to pass in (or something like that).

    If we have an expansionary autumn statement with money for health, housing and infrastructure from bean counter Hammond the surely that means a spring election.?
    There won't be an election till we have proper boundary reform.
    There won't be an election until either the government ends up completely stuck on Brexit, or the card becomes less valuable in her hand than played. At the moment she is at least pretending they know how to take Brexit forward, and the card has huge potential value both as deterrent to the opposition and because by 2019 she may well need to fall back on it.
    We can't continue on boundaries from 16 years ago. There won't be an election unless there is an un-overcomeable constitutional crisis.

    I can't see that happening.
  • Options
    chestnut said:

    Scotland subsample; MPs should vote to leave EU rather than follow own leanings = 49-40

    I well remember people on here highlighting Scottish subsamples pre Brexit to suggest it was too close to call.

  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005
    Ed Balls dancing gangnam style now on Strictly
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Ed Balls actually doing okay... :smiley:
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,942
    chestnut said:

    The details within the poll look pretty grim for the Lib Dem euro-led recovery strategy.

    The subsets that are broadly sympathetic are under 35, Scotland and London, so the obstacles they need to overcome are tuition fees, the SNP/Greens and Corbyn Central.

    That is a very astute point.

    LDs simply don't have a hope of recovery to 50 seats within the next few general elections
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    2 key points from this poll. First 1% more voters back hard Brexit than soft Brexit and second most think it will be easier to do a trade deal with President Trump even if they don't like him

    I suspect 70% of people (rather than 43%) would agree with the statement "would you support a form of Brexit that curtailed low skilled immigration, but which gave British firms full access to the single market".
    Yes but that will not be on offer
    Of course it's on offer. The only question is what the price is.
    Any form of free movement controls will not give full single market access as the EU made clear, only possibility limited access
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Oh dear. Poor Osborne....

    If Brexit does turn into an economic mistake, watch Osborne's number surge rapider than a 19 year old chap's libido after months of not getting any.
    So not at all then.

    A 19 year old's libido surges to max after 24 hours and thereafter plateaus
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited November 2016
    john_zims said:

    @foxinsoxuk

    'Not true. UKIP won over 100 seats at that election, surely?'


    Can you remind us of how many seats the Lib Dem eurofanatics won at the last EU election .

    8 times UKIP :-)

    Gangnam style!
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    If Ed Balls stood for Labour right now they'd be in with a chance.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,613
    So to please the maximum number of people the Brexit deal needs to be 'Bugger off back to where you came from and when you get there Buy British'.
  • Options
    john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @chestnut

    'The details within the poll look pretty grim for the Lib Dem euro-led recovery strategy.'

    Not many takers for a party that is determined to subvert democracy..
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    @TSE - Once you see something like that, it cannot be unseen.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    chestnut said:

    If Ed Balls stood for Labour right now they'd be in with a chance.

    100/1 with Shadsy as next Labour leader. Irresistable!
  • Options
    Judging by the number of Lab retweets I'm getting, it's probably the first thing they've felt good about since Tony Blair appeared in a photo with Noel Gallagher.
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    stodge said:

    MikeL said:



    Let's wait and see what Hammond actually announces - I suspect he'll be a fair bit more cautious than some people are expecting (and hoping).

    The deficit for 2016-17 is going to come in at around £65-£70 billion and debt is now an eyewatering 83% of GDP and this under a Conservative Government which is meant to be the model of fiscal rectitude.

    Yes, the deficit figures have come down from the awful numbers inherited by the Coalition in 2010 and there are some encouraging signs on the tax take from the City and elsewhere but overall the public finances are still in a mess and Hammond really has no room for giveaways or the like (even if that were his preference).

    Some may think there's a pot of gold at the end of the Brexit rainbow - I take the view we haven't got a pot to pass in (or something like that).

    If we have an expansionary autumn statement with money for health, housing and infrastructure from bean counter Hammond the surely that means a spring election.?
    Opinium last Sunday had a Tory lead of 8% implying a majority of 24. Would May really risk an election for the possibility of little gain?
  • Options
    *Smug bastard alert*

    Back in September I wrote how Ed Balls could use Strictly to become the next Labour leader

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/09/03/everybody-salsa-for-the-real-labour-king-over-the-water/
  • Options

    Judging by the number of Lab retweets I'm getting, it's probably the first thing they've felt good about since Tony Blair appeared in a photo with Noel Gallagher.
    I might join Labour if Ed Balls becomes leader.

    Just imagine him threatening Mrs May with a dance-off at PMQs
  • Options
    tlg86 said:

    @TSE - Once you see something like that, it cannot be unseen.

    I'm never going to delete this episode of Strictly from my Sky box.

    It is the best thing ever.
  • Options

    MikeL said:

    "Trump's victory is a welcome distraction to politics as usual" - 26%

    Does this possibly suggest somewhat of an over-reaction by commentators peddling the lines "rebellion against elites", "anti-establishment" etc etc.

    I think it's often the case that people go out of their way to look for themes which they like to fit events.

    There wasn't much of a rebellion against the elite at our GE 2015.

    Different events happen for different reasons, things often come together by chance / random events.

    Not true. UKIP won over 100 seats at that election, surely?
    UKIP were the largest party with the most MEPs at the European elections. Nigel Farage remains their leader at the EU Parliament.
    Pretty much a lame duck now, but it will keep him in 'allowances'.
  • Options
    ArtistArtist Posts: 1,882
    edited November 2016
    In a year and a bit Corbyn hasn't laid out any sort of alternative economic strategy for Labour. The economic panel that was set up is now defunct. He got chosen as the only anti-austerity candidate, yet why are his supporters not questioning why he has failed to deliver on it? McDonnell has not made any kind of impact, I doubt half the country know who he is.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    Ed Balls is going to win.
  • Options
    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Judging by the number of Lab retweets I'm getting, it's probably the first thing they've felt good about since Tony Blair appeared in a photo with Noel Gallagher.
    I might join Labour if Ed Balls becomes leader.

    Just imagine him threatening Mrs May with a dance-off at PMQs
    He has gone up massively in my estimation, and In Public profile too.

    Find him a safe seat!
  • Options
    weejonnie said:
    If that's true, it would take Trump down to 274, would it not?
  • Options

    weejonnie said:
    If that's true, it would take Trump down to 274, would it not?
    Just noticed the date!
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    weejonnie said:
    If that's true, it would take Trump down to 274, would it not?
    If Labour had won the 1992 General Election, Kinnock would have been Prime Minister too.
  • Options
    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    weejonnie said:
    If that's true, it would take Trump down to 274, would it not?
    No, he has already 290 in the bag without Michigan
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,715
    TudorRose said:

    MaxPB said:

    Even split on single market vs immigration restrictions.

    For the government trying to identify a negotiating strategy that is by far the most dangerous statistic in this poll. Unless they can convince us we can have both then roughly half the electorate are going to be disappointed. Assuming we can believe the polls, of course!
    And that's central contradiction of Brexit, which is why it can have no successful outcome. We can't agree to muddle through and make the best of a bad job because Remainers blame Leavers for getting us into this mess while Leavers, obviously, don't accept it's a mess at all.

    So we have stasis.
  • Options
    Ed Balls is labours only hope.

    It's that bad / funny.
  • Options
    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908
    Political wire notes that republicans are only one state legislature away from being able to modify the constitution. Tough to pull off... But can imagine them trying changing 14th amendment to say those born in us are citizens...
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    I've given all three online votes to Ed.
  • Options

    Judging by the number of Lab retweets I'm getting, it's probably the first thing they've felt good about since Tony Blair appeared in a photo with Noel Gallagher.
    Jees a slip and she would have been dead.....
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    I've given all three online votes to Ed.

    Ditto, and a few phone votes too.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    MikeK said:

    weejonnie said:
    If that's true, it would take Trump down to 274, would it not?
    No, he has already 290 in the bag without Michigan
    Michigan will be added on Tuesday to his tally.

    https://twitter.com/NewsMichigan/status/797026889709690880
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,435
    edited November 2016

    Ed Balls is labours only hope.

    It's that bad / funny.

    I would appreciate it if the next leadership contest was just between Ed Balls and Richard Burgon.

    The fact I tipped both at 100/1 would be the second best thing about that.
  • Options
    tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,546

    Judging by the number of Lab retweets I'm getting, it's probably the first thing they've felt good about since Tony Blair appeared in a photo with Noel Gallagher.
    I might join Labour if Ed Balls becomes leader.

    Just imagine him threatening Mrs May with a dance-off at PMQs
    He has gone up massively in my estimation, and In Public profile too.

    Find him a safe seat!
    First time I've ever watched Strictly. Labour could do a lot, lot worse.
  • Options
    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    rkrkrk said:

    Political wire notes that republicans are only one state legislature away from being able to modify the constitution. Tough to pull off... But can imagine them trying changing 14th amendment to say those born in us are citizens...

    Wouldn't it have to be ratified by three quarters of the states (38)?
  • Options
    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    edited November 2016
    FPT

    SouthamObserver said:
    » show previous quotes
    I know. But it is a matter of fact that most American voters did not get the president they voted for.


    Ahh the good old PV meme again.

    It's odd that if the voting system was so unfair you would have thought the democrats would have changed it in the last 8 years of Obama or even during the Clinton years. Of course they would have lost the mass of electoral college votes California always guarantees them.

    It's a system they were all more than happy with when they were winning. Just like Labour during their GE wins, Remainers while they thought they would win and democrats while they thought they were shoo ins.

    Hypocrites all of them.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    justin124 said:

    stodge said:

    MikeL said:



    Let's wait and see what Hammond actually announces - I suspect he'll be a fair bit more cautious than some people are expecting (and hoping).

    The deficit for 2016-17 is going to come in at around £65-£70 billion and debt is now an eyewatering 83% of GDP and this under a Conservative Government which is meant to be the model of fiscal rectitude.

    Yes, the deficit figures have come down from the awful numbers inherited by the Coalition in 2010 and there are some encouraging signs on the tax take from the City and elsewhere but overall the public finances are still in a mess and Hammond really has no room for giveaways or the like (even if that were his preference).

    Some may think there's a pot of gold at the end of the Brexit rainbow - I take the view we haven't got a pot to pass in (or something like that).

    If we have an expansionary autumn statement with money for health, housing and infrastructure from bean counter Hammond the surely that means a spring election.?
    Opinium last Sunday had a Tory lead of 8% implying a majority of 24. Would May really risk an election for the possibility of little gain?
    Oh dear - stop. Just stop. This level of silly cherry-picking is embarrassing on a site like this.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rkrkrk said:

    Political wire notes that republicans are only one state legislature away from being able to modify the constitution. Tough to pull off... But can imagine them trying changing 14th amendment to say those born in us are citizens...

    Interesting approach to a smear.

    I can imagine Corbyn annoucing plans to ritually sacrifice every Tory in the land. It doesn't mean he's going to do it.

    Do you have any basis in fact to suggest that Republicans plan to strip African Americans of citizenship?
  • Options
    Moses_ said:

    FPT

    SouthamObserver said:
    » show previous quotes
    I know. But it is a matter of fact that most American voters did not get the president they voted for.


    Ahh the good old PV meme again.

    It's odd that if the voting system was so unfair you would have thought the democrats would have changed it in the last 8 years of Obama or even during the Clinton years. Of course they would have lost the mass of electoral college votes California always guarantees them.

    It's a system they were all more than happy with when they were winning. Just like Labour during their GE wins, Remainers while they thought they would win and democrats while they thought they were shoo ins.

    Hypocrites all of them.

    Someone else who doesn't know how constitutional changes in America work
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Moses_ said:

    FPT

    SouthamObserver said:
    » show previous quotes
    I know. But it is a matter of fact that most American voters did not get the president they voted for.


    Ahh the good old PV meme again.

    It's odd that if the voting system was so unfair you would have thought the democrats would have changed it in the last 8 years of Obama or even during the Clinton years. Of course they would have lost the mass of electoral college votes California always guarantees them.

    It's a system they were all more than happy with when they were winning. Just like Labour during their GE wins, Remainers while they thought they would win and democrats while they thought they were shoo ins.

    Hypocrites all of them.

    Not really. Changing the Electoral College would require a Constitutional Ammendment passed by 2/3 of States, and both houses of Congress with a 2/3 majority.

    Not possible.
  • Options
    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,989
    Pulpstar said:

    I've given all three online votes to Ed.

    Same here.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,282

    Moses_ said:

    FPT

    SouthamObserver said:
    » show previous quotes
    I know. But it is a matter of fact that most American voters did not get the president they voted for.


    Ahh the good old PV meme again.

    It's odd that if the voting system was so unfair you would have thought the democrats would have changed it in the last 8 years of Obama or even during the Clinton years. Of course they would have lost the mass of electoral college votes California always guarantees them.

    It's a system they were all more than happy with when they were winning. Just like Labour during their GE wins, Remainers while they thought they would win and democrats while they thought they were shoo ins.

    Hypocrites all of them.

    Not really. Changing the Electoral College would require a Constitutional Ammendment passed by 2/3 of States, and both houses of Congress with a 2/3 majority.

    Not possible.
    And which party controls the eleven states that are already backing the change....
This discussion has been closed.