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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » CON lead over LAB drops 9% in latest Ipsos MORI phone poll

SystemSystem Posts: 11,007
edited November 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » CON lead over LAB drops 9% in latest Ipsos MORI phone poll

Latest @IpsosMORI poll sees drop in CON lead. LAB & LDs the gainersCON 42% -5LAB 33% +4LD 10% +3UKIP 7% +1

Read the full story here


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Comments

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    Sleazy broken Mrs May on the slide.
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    The Brexit handling polling must be alarming for her.

    But what did she expect when she appointed the disgraced Liam Fox and the the narcissist David Davis to lead the Brexit departments.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,019

    Sleazy broken Mrs May on the slide.

    Bollocks broken Brexit on the slide.
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited November 2016
    It has to be an outlier.. Labour on thirty three per cent is ludicrous
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    Sleazy broken Mrs May on the slide.

    It really should have been the lovely Priti Patel as PM
  • Options
    The Mori figures still represent a swing to the Conservatives from both Lab and LDs, from 2015, in mid-term and with what might charitably be described as policy formation still in progress.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,843
    That 33% seems awfully optimistic, more than Miliband got last year. Maybe it's because Corbyn has been off the TV for a few weeks.
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    Fpt @Plato I saw Bedfordshire plod's unfortunate tweet last night. It must stick in their throat that Tommy Robinson was one of the first to spot the Fubar.
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    Not too much to get excited about in the headline figures. Not much change on two months ago.

    Mrs May should be more concerned that Brexit is perceived to be being handled badly. Nothing in the news in the last couple of days is going to have altered that impression either. Time to get a grip.
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    @ScottP It looks like he's a few chunks short of a full Toblerone.
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    The Brexit handling polling must be alarming for her.

    But what did she expect when she appointed the disgraced Liam Fox and the the narcissist David Davis to lead the Brexit departments.

    One wonders if May knew what a mess she was inheriting from the lying chancers Cameron and Osborne.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,580

    Sleazy broken Mrs May on the slide.

    It really should have been the lovely Priti Patel as PM
    No comment!
  • Options
    ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819
    Sandpit said:

    That 33% seems awfully optimistic, more than Miliband got last year. Maybe it's because Corbyn has been off the TV for a few weeks.

    Maybe Labour just won't lose that many more voters, beyond what Miliband lost, and in the end voters are generally still more tribal than we assume. We saw that with the GOP in the end, despite the supposed nevertrump exodus. If Labour keeps 95% of Miliband plus mops up some green and yellow, while being still the natural repository for those disillusioned with government, 33% is possible
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,843
    Corbyn really does live on another planet!
  • Options
    FPT: Mr. 43, a senior judge shouldn't be flying a kite to meddle in politics.

    Doesn't exactly fill me with confidence she'll be neutral when it comes to judging the case.
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    FPT - Mr Dancer, prior to June 23rd both David Allen Green and Dominic Grieve said triggering article 50 was a process not an event.

    I compared it to selling and buying a house. If you don't time it right, you face the possibility of nowhere to live for days/weeks/months.

    Unpicking the laws that are part of our membership of the EC/EU ain't easy.

    It is usually with revolutions that you see the last 40 odd years worth of laws being repealed.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,692
    jcesmond said:



    One wonders if May knew what a mess she was inheriting from the lying chancers Cameron and Osborne.

    Interesting question. Do people think Theresa May would improve her political position by blaming Brexit downsides on Cameron and Osborne?
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @gabyhinsliff: All PMQs from now until the end of time, digested: Corbyn: Will you tell us your plan for Brexit? PM: No. (Loud chuntering follows)
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    This is a goldmine for JC at PMQs. Whilst I have sympathy with the gov regarding not laying open your negotiation strategy, the lack of detail forthcoming just leaves open goal after open goal.
    Even a terrible performer like JC can get wins with this.

    May isn't handling this well at all.
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    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,291
    edited November 2016
    As I said yesterday, Brexit is starting to have an Iraq-aftermath feel about it: the bullish rhetoric continues undimmed, but it seems to be less and less linked to reality. Leave need to hope that the analogy doesn't become fully realized: i.e. absolutely no one thinks Brexit was well conceived/implemented whatsoever, apart from a handful of Christopher Hitchens type diehards.
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    Mr. Eagles, disagree entirely. Leaving the EU and disentangling us from various current commitments will be complicated and prolonged. Those claiming that Article 50 takes a long time by itself seem universally (small sample size currently, of course) to be very pro-EU types.

    Grieve's wetter than a lettuce on the Titanic.

    Anyway, I have to be off to walk the hound.
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    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351
    The Labour recipe for success.

    Keep Jezza locked away in Mrs Rochester's attic.
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    That last non-question from JC just left the door open for May...
    What was he thinking?
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    Fpt @Plato I saw Bedfordshire plod's unfortunate tweet last night. It must stick in their throat that Tommy Robinson was one of the first to spot the Fubar.

    :lol:
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    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    edited November 2016

    FPT: Mr. 43, a senior judge shouldn't be flying a kite to meddle in politics.

    Doesn't exactly fill me with confidence she'll be neutral when it comes to judging the case.

    Have you even read the speech she gave in which these remarks were made? Its fairly clear that she was laying out both sides arguments but not coming to any conclusion on them.

    https://www.supremecourt.uk/docs/speech-161109.pdf
  • Options
    JonathanD said:

    FPT: Mr. 43, a senior judge shouldn't be flying a kite to meddle in politics.

    Doesn't exactly fill me with confidence she'll be neutral when it comes to judging the case.

    FPT: Mr. 43, a senior judge shouldn't be flying a kite to meddle in politics.

    Doesn't exactly fill me with confidence she'll be neutral when it comes to judging the case.

    Have you even read the speech she gave in which these remarks were made? Its fairly clear that she was laying out both sides arguments but not coming to any conclusion on them.

    https://www.supremecourt.uk/docs/speech-161109.pdf
    Stop it. You're violating the safe space of Leavers by bringing facts into the debate.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,019
    edited November 2016
  • Options
    May trying out a new meme regarding providing a running commentary for brexit- "best way to get the worst outcome"
    Could work, but her delivery is off...
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,692
    JonathanD said:

    FPT: Mr. 43, a senior judge shouldn't be flying a kite to meddle in politics.

    Doesn't exactly fill me with confidence she'll be neutral when it comes to judging the case.

    Have you even read the speech she gave in which these remarks were made? Its fairly clear that she was laying out both sides arguments but not coming to any conclusion on them.

    https://www.supremecourt.uk/docs/speech-161109.pdf
    You're right, but I think Mr Dancer has a point. If she is going to be judging the case, she should keep quiet about anything that could touch it, even if she is just setting out hypothetical arguments and general legal principles.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @paulwaugh: May's "we have a plan" is followed by words that are not a plan but more objectives. Brexit means Brexit, plan means plan. Repeat to fade.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,019

    As I said yesterday, Brexit is starting to have an Iraq-aftermath feel about it: the bullish rhetoric continues undimmed, but it seems to be less and less linked to reality. Leave need to hope that the analogy doesn't become fully realized: i.e. absolutely no one thinks Brexit was well conceived/implemented whatsoever, apart from a handful of Christopher Hitchens type diehards.

    We may be headed towards the inevitable public enquiry into how the Cameron government served up a false binary choice with no preparation for this result.

    Who did 'sex up' the £350m claim anyway?
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,843
    Ah, Andrea Jenkyns, the Conservative member for Morely and Outwood ;)
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    May trying out a new meme regarding providing a running commentary for brexit- "best way to get the worst outcome"
    Could work, but her delivery is off...

    TMay appears to have hit the nail on the head with that comment. As many saner voices on here have said over the past few months.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @GuardianHeather: Interesting: @AngusRobertson asks about the Customs Union; May says it's "not just a binary decision".

    @JGForsyth: May's approach to customs union informed by her JHA opt outs policy as Home Secretary: leave it and then opt back into bits you like 1/2

    @JGForsyth: 2/2 But question is whether the EU 27 will be interested in such an approach, they do have a surplus on cars, and whether WTO will accept it
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699

    The Mori figures still represent a swing to the Conservatives from both Lab and LDs, from 2015, in mid-term and with what might charitably be described as policy formation still in progress.

    Lots of straws being clutched there .
    Look at the data tables .
    Conservatives lose 16 2015 Conservative voters to Lib Dems and gain 1 2015 Lib Dem voter back
    Conservatives lose 8 2015 Conservative voters to Labour and gain 8 2015 Labour voters back
    Labour lose 12 2015 Labour voters to Lib Dems and gain 5 2015 Lib Dem voters back
    102 Lib Dem voters in sample reduced to 89 after weighting
    53 UKIP voters in sample increased to 73 after weighting
    Conservative and Labour voters numbers almost unchanged by weighting .
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,902
    Jill Stein running at a ridiculous 1.77% in California.

    She is 373 votes behind 1% of all votes, probably will bust 1%.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,019
    Pulpstar said:

    Jill Stein running at a ridiculous 1.77% in California.

    She is 373 votes behind 1% of all votes, probably will bust 1%.

    Perhaps the only result that will be affected by 'voter suppression' will be Stein < 1%. :)
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,902

    The Mori figures still represent a swing to the Conservatives from both Lab and LDs, from 2015, in mid-term and with what might charitably be described as policy formation still in progress.

    Lots of straws being clutched there .
    Look at the data tables .
    Conservatives lose 16 2015 Conservative voters to Lib Dems and gain 1 2015 Lib Dem voter back
    Conservatives lose 8 2015 Conservative voters to Labour and gain 8 2015 Labour voters back
    Labour lose 12 2015 Labour voters to Lib Dems and gain 5 2015 Lib Dem voters back
    102 Lib Dem voters in sample reduced to 89 after weighting
    53 UKIP voters in sample increased to 73 after weighting
    Conservative and Labour voters numbers almost unchanged by weighting .
    Pollsters still fighting the last war ?
  • Options
    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400

    May trying out a new meme regarding providing a running commentary for brexit- "best way to get the worst outcome"
    Could work, but her delivery is off...

    TMay appears to have hit the nail on the head with that comment. As many saner voices on here have said over the past few months.
    I'd love to know the mechanism by which discussing the various options available to us, leads to us getting the worst possible outcome. They already know we are leaving and that our ideal situation would be all of the good bits of the EU and none of the bad so whatever we ask for is hardly going to be a surprise.

    I suspect May really means worst outcome for herself rather than the country.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,692

    May trying out a new meme regarding providing a running commentary for brexit- "best way to get the worst outcome"
    Could work, but her delivery is off...

    I suspect her problem is that a lot of people believe she doesn't have a plan.

    She runs one of the leakiest governments of recent times,so we actually know a fair amount of what's going on. There are a lot of agendas. There is what I would describe as a wishlist, rather a plan. That's going to fall apart at the first contact with the enemy. What there isn't much of is anything that could accurately be described as strategy. Michel Barnier from the EU side does have a strategy: start with the exit terms; park any final agreements and haggle over the interim arrangement. Is that acceptable to the UK government? It looks like a fairly tough negotiating stance.
  • Options
    JonathanD said:

    May trying out a new meme regarding providing a running commentary for brexit- "best way to get the worst outcome"
    Could work, but her delivery is off...

    TMay appears to have hit the nail on the head with that comment. As many saner voices on here have said over the past few months.
    I'd love to know the mechanism by which discussing the various options available to us, leads to us getting the worst possible outcome. They already know we are leaving and that our ideal situation would be all of the good bits of the EU and none of the bad so whatever we ask for is hardly going to be a surprise.

    I suspect May really means worst outcome for herself rather than the country.
    "discussing the various options available to us" is not what is being demanded.
    The gov is being asked for a hard plan for Brexit, not some sort of open committee discussing the options.
  • Options
    ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819
    There's something fascinating about having a POTUS who uses his own twitter in such a personal and unrestricted way. We may actually get to know what the White House is really thinking far more so than any other president. He may give us interesting tidbits from intl summits etc. I figured he would stop tweeting after he won (following Cameron's twitter maxim), but he seems to be back in control of his account again.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,902

    Pulpstar said:

    Jill Stein running at a ridiculous 1.77% in California.

    She is 373 votes behind 1% of all votes, probably will bust 1%.

    Perhaps the only result that will be affected by 'voter suppression' will be Stein < 1%. :)
    Not really, Stein votes would be surpressed or not surpressed as well.
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    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351
    I see Kinnock Jr has decided that voting against Article 50 is too dangerous. He's finally spoken to his constituents?
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    JonathanD said:

    FPT: Mr. 43, a senior judge shouldn't be flying a kite to meddle in politics.

    Doesn't exactly fill me with confidence she'll be neutral when it comes to judging the case.

    Have you even read the speech she gave in which these remarks were made? Its fairly clear that she was laying out both sides arguments but not coming to any conclusion on them.

    https://www.supremecourt.uk/docs/speech-161109.pdf
    Introducing to the debate the argument that a 'minimal' Act would be inadequate to trigger A50 is, however, accepting that that position is at least arguable, which suggests to me a willingness to consider two immense innovations. Firstly, that the Supreme Court can in effect strike down legislation by declaring it 'inadequate' (a possibility made all the more real by her assertion that the Supreme Court was now the 'guardian of the constitution'), and secondly - and consequently - placing some pieces of legislation at a higher status than others, when traditionally all primary legislation was of equal legal standing.
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    Corbyn consistently seems to be a match for May at PMQs. That's how bad she is.
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    JonathanD said:

    May trying out a new meme regarding providing a running commentary for brexit- "best way to get the worst outcome"
    Could work, but her delivery is off...

    TMay appears to have hit the nail on the head with that comment. As many saner voices on here have said over the past few months.
    I'd love to know the mechanism by which discussing the various options available to us, leads to us getting the worst possible outcome. They already know we are leaving and that our ideal situation would be all of the good bits of the EU and none of the bad so whatever we ask for is hardly going to be a surprise.

    I suspect May really means worst outcome for herself rather than the country.

    Of course. May's career comes first.

  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,222
    edited November 2016
    Was the polling post-Trump?

    The US election was a huge news event even here in the U.K., and it isn't possible that part of the swing back to the centre-left is some sort of counter-reaction. If true, that helps the LibDems in Richmond since I know this is one of the secondary arguments they have been trying to deploy. Make a stand for liberalism while you still have the chance.
  • Options

    There's something fascinating about having a POTUS who uses his own twitter in such a personal and unrestricted way. We may actually get to know what the White House is really thinking far more so than any other president. He may give us interesting tidbits from intl summits etc. I figured he would stop tweeting after he won (following Cameron's twitter maxim), but he seems to be back in control of his account again.

    03:15 'Just order bombing raid on Tehran LOL' @RealDonaldTrump
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @iainmartin1: Summarised - Tory MP: don't deport my Italian parents. May: I hope not to do that. Good grief. #PMQs
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    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351
    edited November 2016
    Why doesn't Mrs May just them politely to mind their own business about the negotiations with the EU. The Government negotiate all the time with various people. It's called governing.

    Side-line the whingers. When the deal is announced, humour them by letting them whinge in Parliamentary debate. Job done.
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    Not too much to get excited about in the headline figures. Not much change on two months ago.

    Mrs May should be more concerned that Brexit is perceived to be being handled badly. Nothing in the news in the last couple of days is going to have altered that impression either. Time to get a grip.

    As Zhou Enlai may have said in 1968 about the significance of the 1789 French Revolution…….
    …… it’s too soon to say

    …… that the government has been competent or otherwise about Brexit.
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    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351
    Mr Observer,

    I agree. She was crap at PMQs from the beginning and hasn't improved. Jezza has marginally improved but he's still crap too.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,019

    Corbyn consistently seems to be a match for May at PMQs. That's how bad she is.

    The moment when she was lost for words and fumbled with her notes for a few seconds was a shocker.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @JGForsyth: May's refusal to answer a question about Farage and a peerage bound to stoke speculation that he will be given one
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    I was watching a clip of the Donald on CBS recently. With his speaking style, I wonder how long it will be before he inadvertently reveals something highly classified.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,371
    RIP Mose Allison, checking out, appropriately, with "I don't worry 'bout a thing, Cause I knows nothing's gonna be alright"...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8htuXIav1E
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,320
    CD13 said:

    Why doesn't Mrs May just them politely to mind their own business about the negotiations with the EU. The Government negotiate all the time with various people. It's called governing.

    Side-line the whingers. When the deal is announced, humour them by letting them whinge in Parliamentary debate. Job done.

    You don't feel that the terms we should seek for Brexit are a matter for legitimate public debate for MPs, just none of their business? Especially as the Government appears not yet to have any real idea what it thinks.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,843
    PMQs running past 45 minutes again...
  • Options

    Corbyn consistently seems to be a match for May at PMQs. That's how bad she is.

    The moment when she was lost for words and fumbled with her notes for a few seconds was a shocker.
    Did she go as red in the face as her predecessor?
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,692

    Not too much to get excited about in the headline figures. Not much change on two months ago.

    Mrs May should be more concerned that Brexit is perceived to be being handled badly. Nothing in the news in the last couple of days is going to have altered that impression either. Time to get a grip.

    As Zhou Enlai may have said in 1968 about the significance of the 1789 French Revolution…….
    …… it’s too soon to say

    …… that the government has been competent or otherwise about Brexit.
    Slight historical nitpick, Zhou Enlai's comments were made during Nixon's visit to China in 1972 and he probably misunderstood the question, thinking it was about the 1968 riots in Paris.

    Zhou Enlai was notoriously cautious - like Theresa May, funnily enough - which is why he was the only Chinese leader to survive every purge. Even Mao was demoted at one point.
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    perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    FF43 said:

    May trying out a new meme regarding providing a running commentary for brexit- "best way to get the worst outcome"
    Could work, but her delivery is off...

    I suspect her problem is that a lot of people believe she doesn't have a plan.

    She runs one of the leakiest governments of recent times,so we actually know a fair amount of what's going on. There are a lot of agendas. There is what I would describe as a wishlist, rather a plan. That's going to fall apart at the first contact with the enemy. What there isn't much of is anything that could accurately be described as strategy. Michel Barnier from the EU side does have a strategy: start with the exit terms; park any final agreements and haggle over the interim arrangement. Is that acceptable to the UK government? It looks like a fairly tough negotiating stance.
    It's not "one of the leakiest governments of recent times". TM doesn't favour feeding the MSM beast with continuous titbits of propaganda. So the MSM makes up the news from speculation, gossip and shoddy reporting as in the case of the Deloitte memo.

  • Options
    IanB2 said:

    Was the polling post-Trump?

    The US election was a huge news event even here in the U.K., and it isn't possible that part of the swing back to the centre-left is some sort of counter-reaction. If true, that helps the LibDems in Richmond since I know this is one of the secondary arguments they have been trying to deploy. Make a stand for liberalism while you still have the chance.

    The Tory right wants to join UKIP in snuggling close to President-elect Trump. May wants to be Thatcher to his Reagan. Being on the centre-left I am all for the Tories licking the bum of a man whose most senior advisor is a white supremacist. I am not sure it will be that good for brand Britain, though; especially when you remember that Trump is not exactly popular in the US either.

  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,371

    I was watching a clip of the Donald on CBS recently. With his speaking style, I wonder how long it will be before he inadvertently reveals something highly classified.

    Which is possible, but how on earth could you tell he wasn't just making stuff up ?
  • Options
    Appropriate choice (Brexit and Trump) for word of the year.
    http://news.sky.com/story/post-truth-named-oxford-dictionaries-word-of-the-year-10659284
    (OK it's two words hyphenated)
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,692
    perdix said:

    FF43 said:

    May trying out a new meme regarding providing a running commentary for brexit- "best way to get the worst outcome"
    Could work, but her delivery is off...

    I suspect her problem is that a lot of people believe she doesn't have a plan.

    She runs one of the leakiest governments of recent times,so we actually know a fair amount of what's going on. There are a lot of agendas. There is what I would describe as a wishlist, rather a plan. That's going to fall apart at the first contact with the enemy. What there isn't much of is anything that could accurately be described as strategy. Michel Barnier from the EU side does have a strategy: start with the exit terms; park any final agreements and haggle over the interim arrangement. Is that acceptable to the UK government? It looks like a fairly tough negotiating stance.
    It's not "one of the leakiest governments of recent times". TM doesn't favour feeding the MSM beast with continuous titbits of propaganda. So the MSM makes up the news from speculation, gossip and shoddy reporting as in the case of the Deloitte memo.

    So when the many journalists of the "MSM beast" claim a Minister told them "X", in each case it was entirely their own fabrication?
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''Being on the centre-left I am all for the Tories licking the bum of a man whose most senior advisor is a white supremacist.''

    What kind of stance would you advise?
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,371
    taffys said:

    ''Being on the centre-left I am all for the Tories licking the bum of a man whose most senior advisor is a white supremacist.''

    What kind of stance would you advise?

    Hold back on the tongue, at least ?
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799

    As I said yesterday, Brexit is starting to have an Iraq-aftermath feel about it: the bullish rhetoric continues undimmed, but it seems to be less and less linked to reality. Leave need to hope that the analogy doesn't become fully realized: i.e. absolutely no one thinks Brexit was well conceived/implemented whatsoever, apart from a handful of Christopher Hitchens type diehards.

    We may be headed towards the inevitable public enquiry into how the Cameron government served up a false binary choice with no preparation for this result.

    Who did 'sex up' the £350m claim anyway?
    Mostly Remainers are jumping at shadows.
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    Scott_P said:

    @JGForsyth: May's refusal to answer a question about Farage and a peerage bound to stoke speculation that he will be given one

    Though I think it highly unwise, I can now see the Farage ennoblement happening. The Tory headless-chicken brigade are utterly spooked by Farage and his alchemy. They'll see it as a way of both containing him and extracting some of his stardust for themselves. Some will even be keen to get a bit of the Trump action, and will see Nige as the perfect guru and mentor for such a purpose.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,371

    JonathanD said:

    FPT: Mr. 43, a senior judge shouldn't be flying a kite to meddle in politics.

    Doesn't exactly fill me with confidence she'll be neutral when it comes to judging the case.

    Have you even read the speech she gave in which these remarks were made? Its fairly clear that she was laying out both sides arguments but not coming to any conclusion on them.

    https://www.supremecourt.uk/docs/speech-161109.pdf
    Introducing to the debate the argument that a 'minimal' Act would be inadequate to trigger A50 is, however, accepting that that position is at least arguable, which suggests to me a willingness to consider two immense innovations. Firstly, that the Supreme Court can in effect strike down legislation by declaring it 'inadequate' (a possibility made all the more real by her assertion that the Supreme Court was now the 'guardian of the constitution'), and secondly - and consequently - placing some pieces of legislation at a higher status than others, when traditionally all primary legislation was of equal legal standing.
    Quite. I'm for want of a better word a remainer, but this is nonsense on stilts.
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    Sean_F said:

    As I said yesterday, Brexit is starting to have an Iraq-aftermath feel about it: the bullish rhetoric continues undimmed, but it seems to be less and less linked to reality. Leave need to hope that the analogy doesn't become fully realized: i.e. absolutely no one thinks Brexit was well conceived/implemented whatsoever, apart from a handful of Christopher Hitchens type diehards.

    We may be headed towards the inevitable public enquiry into how the Cameron government served up a false binary choice with no preparation for this result.

    Who did 'sex up' the £350m claim anyway?
    Mostly Remainers are jumping at shadows.
    Someone post the Brexit bus or Boris+Poster (£350million/week)
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Corbyn is a actually getting good at PMQs.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,902
    Jonathan said:

    Corbyn is a actually getting good at PMQs.

    He (was) 1.5 on Betfair to lead Labour into the next GE.

    Nabavi advised the bet and I'm on for a hundred quid.

    Still good value if its around that price.
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    perdix said:

    FF43 said:

    May trying out a new meme regarding providing a running commentary for brexit- "best way to get the worst outcome"
    Could work, but her delivery is off...

    I suspect her problem is that a lot of people believe she doesn't have a plan.

    She runs one of the leakiest governments of recent times,so we actually know a fair amount of what's going on. There are a lot of agendas. There is what I would describe as a wishlist, rather a plan. That's going to fall apart at the first contact with the enemy. What there isn't much of is anything that could accurately be described as strategy. Michel Barnier from the EU side does have a strategy: start with the exit terms; park any final agreements and haggle over the interim arrangement. Is that acceptable to the UK government? It looks like a fairly tough negotiating stance.
    It's not "one of the leakiest governments of recent times". TM doesn't favour feeding the MSM beast with continuous titbits of propaganda. So the MSM makes up the news from speculation, gossip and shoddy reporting as in the case of the Deloitte memo.

    Hmmm - the three Brexiteers brief the Torygraph; the Treasury briefs the Times. May slaps them all down!

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    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351
    edited November 2016
    Dr P,

    "You don't feel that the terms we should seek for Brexit are a matter for legitimate public debate for MPs, just none of their business? "

    No, sod 'em. They only want to grandstand anyway. What constructive suggestion will they have? They'll ask for the moon on a stick and still whinge whatever the outcome. Don't humour them by letting them jump up and down yelling. "Please, miss, we're really important."
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    Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    Sandpit said:

    PMQs running past 45 minutes again...

    I know it's Bercow that determines how many MPs are called but there's surely a limit! Who regulates the Speaker? -odious prig
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Sandpit said:

    That 33% seems awfully optimistic, more than Miliband got last year. Maybe it's because Corbyn has been off the TV for a few weeks.

    Milliband polled 31.2% in May 2015.
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    ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819

    There's something fascinating about having a POTUS who uses his own twitter in such a personal and unrestricted way. We may actually get to know what the White House is really thinking far more so than any other president. He may give us interesting tidbits from intl summits etc. I figured he would stop tweeting after he won (following Cameron's twitter maxim), but he seems to be back in control of his account again.

    03:15 'Just order bombing raid on Tehran LOL' @RealDonaldTrump
    'Krooked Khomeini just begged me not to bomb his country. Sad!'
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    Scott_P said:

    @JGForsyth: May's refusal to answer a question about Farage and a peerage bound to stoke speculation that he will be given one

    Though I think it highly unwise, I can now see the Farage ennoblement happening. The Tory headless-chicken brigade are utterly spooked by Farage and his alchemy. They'll see it as a way of both containing him and extracting some of his stardust for themselves. Some will even be keen to get a bit of the Trump action, and will see Nige as the perfect guru and mentor for such a purpose.
    Farage should undoubtedly have a peerage if he's willing to leave the European parliament. UKIP is woefully underrepresented in the Lords and party leaders are routinely offered a place in the upper house on retirement from front-line politics.
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    CD13 said:

    Dr P,

    "You don't feel that the terms we should seek for Brexit are a matter for legitimate public debate for MPs, just none of their business? "

    No, sod 'em. They only want to grandstand anyway. What constructive suggestion will they have? They'll ask for the moon on a stick and still whinge whatever the outcome. Don't humour them by letting them jump up and down yelling. "Please, miss, we're really important."

    That doesn't sound much like:
    'Take back control - Parliament is sovereign.'
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    perdix said:

    FF43 said:

    May trying out a new meme regarding providing a running commentary for brexit- "best way to get the worst outcome"
    Could work, but her delivery is off...

    I suspect her problem is that a lot of people believe she doesn't have a plan.

    She runs one of the leakiest governments of recent times,so we actually know a fair amount of what's going on. There are a lot of agendas. There is what I would describe as a wishlist, rather a plan. That's going to fall apart at the first contact with the enemy. What there isn't much of is anything that could accurately be described as strategy. Michel Barnier from the EU side does have a strategy: start with the exit terms; park any final agreements and haggle over the interim arrangement. Is that acceptable to the UK government? It looks like a fairly tough negotiating stance.
    It's not "one of the leakiest governments of recent times". TM doesn't favour feeding the MSM beast with continuous titbits of propaganda. So the MSM makes up the news from speculation, gossip and shoddy reporting as in the case of the Deloitte memo.

    Hmmm - the three Brexiteers brief the Torygraph; the Treasury briefs the Times. May slaps them all down!

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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Good poll for progressives.

    Was the field work done after the Trump win?
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    So it's not just African Americans for Bannon:
    https://twitter.com/adamserwer/status/798864752546025472
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    Scott_P said:

    @JGForsyth: May's refusal to answer a question about Farage and a peerage bound to stoke speculation that he will be given one

    Though I think it highly unwise, I can now see the Farage ennoblement happening. The Tory headless-chicken brigade are utterly spooked by Farage and his alchemy. They'll see it as a way of both containing him and extracting some of his stardust for themselves. Some will even be keen to get a bit of the Trump action, and will see Nige as the perfect guru and mentor for such a purpose.
    Farage in parliament? How will that help anyone except the HIGNFY team?
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    Corbyn consistently seems to be a match for May at PMQs. That's how bad she is.

    Wow - ...in your opinion.
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    The Mori figures still represent a swing to the Conservatives from both Lab and LDs, from 2015, in mid-term and with what might charitably be described as policy formation still in progress.

    Lots of straws being clutched there .
    Look at the data tables .
    Conservatives lose 16 2015 Conservative voters to Lib Dems and gain 1 2015 Lib Dem voter back
    Conservatives lose 8 2015 Conservative voters to Labour and gain 8 2015 Labour voters back
    Labour lose 12 2015 Labour voters to Lib Dems and gain 5 2015 Lib Dem voters back
    102 Lib Dem voters in sample reduced to 89 after weighting
    53 UKIP voters in sample increased to 73 after weighting
    Conservative and Labour voters numbers almost unchanged by weighting .
    Are you saying that the reason the LibDems success in elections hasn't been reflected in the polls is that the pollsters put in bigger weighting 'adjustments' than they used to?
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    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    https://twitter.com/GregHands/status/798869359724732416

    FWIW, Ipsos' Con/Lab figures continue to go up and down like a rollercoaster, and its Ukip figure is still well adrift of all the other pollsters.

    Look at the overall trend of all the national VI polls and things have been pretty close to static since Theresa May became PM in mid-July. There's still no clearly observable trend upwards or downwards for any of the main parties. The consistent Tory leads - for a Government in mid-term which is also dealing with huge challenges - are still remarkable.
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    Nigelb said:

    I was watching a clip of the Donald on CBS recently. With his speaking style, I wonder how long it will be before he inadvertently reveals something highly classified.

    Which is possible, but how on earth could you tell he wasn't just making stuff up ?
    Not being privvy to classified info, I wouldn't have Scooby. He made a comment at his meeting with Obama at the WH last week about 'high flying assets' which intrigued me.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799

    The Mori figures still represent a swing to the Conservatives from both Lab and LDs, from 2015, in mid-term and with what might charitably be described as policy formation still in progress.

    Lots of straws being clutched there .
    Look at the data tables .
    Conservatives lose 16 2015 Conservative voters to Lib Dems and gain 1 2015 Lib Dem voter back
    Conservatives lose 8 2015 Conservative voters to Labour and gain 8 2015 Labour voters back
    Labour lose 12 2015 Labour voters to Lib Dems and gain 5 2015 Lib Dem voters back
    102 Lib Dem voters in sample reduced to 89 after weighting
    53 UKIP voters in sample increased to 73 after weighting
    Conservative and Labour voters numbers almost unchanged by weighting .
    Are you saying that the reason the LibDems success in elections hasn't been reflected in the polls is that the pollsters put in bigger weighting 'adjustments' than they used to?
    Local by-elections are different from Parliamentary elections. Pollsters very rarely poll the former, but do poll the latter.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,019

    Nigelb said:

    I was watching a clip of the Donald on CBS recently. With his speaking style, I wonder how long it will be before he inadvertently reveals something highly classified.

    Which is possible, but how on earth could you tell he wasn't just making stuff up ?
    Not being privvy to classified info, I wouldn't have Scooby. He made a comment at his meeting with Obama at the WH last week about 'high flying assets' which intrigued me.
    I think that was just his real estate brain translation of 'successful initiatives'.
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    CD13 said:

    Why doesn't Mrs May just them politely to mind their own business about the negotiations with the EU. The Government negotiate all the time with various people. It's called governing.

    Side-line the whingers. When the deal is announced, humour them by letting them whinge in Parliamentary debate. Job done.

    You don't feel that the terms we should seek for Brexit are a matter for legitimate public debate for MPs, just none of their business? Especially as the Government appears not yet to have any real idea what it thinks.
    Well, quite.

    May should lead a parliamentary debate on the broad principles that the government will go into the negotiations with, and seek the Commons' backing on them. That would strengthen her hand in both Westminster and Brussels without revealing red lines or concessionable items.

    There is of course the risk that the result of the negotiations might fail to fit those principles but then the embarrassment for the government would scarcely be different from were what would the problem there would be much more the result than the juxtaposition against the earlier stance; journalists, MPs and public can recognise a bad result in isolation, without the need for a checklist.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,902
    Enobling Farage would not neccesarily lose May support.

    It would however be bad news for UKIP, and good news for the Lib Dems.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,902

    perdix said:

    FF43 said:

    May trying out a new meme regarding providing a running commentary for brexit- "best way to get the worst outcome"
    Could work, but her delivery is off...

    I suspect her problem is that a lot of people believe she doesn't have a plan.

    She runs one of the leakiest governments of recent times,so we actually know a fair amount of what's going on. There are a lot of agendas. There is what I would describe as a wishlist, rather a plan. That's going to fall apart at the first contact with the enemy. What there isn't much of is anything that could accurately be described as strategy. Michel Barnier from the EU side does have a strategy: start with the exit terms; park any final agreements and haggle over the interim arrangement. Is that acceptable to the UK government? It looks like a fairly tough negotiating stance.
    It's not "one of the leakiest governments of recent times". TM doesn't favour feeding the MSM beast with continuous titbits of propaganda. So the MSM makes up the news from speculation, gossip and shoddy reporting as in the case of the Deloitte memo.

    Hmmm - the three Brexiteers brief the Torygraph; the Treasury briefs the Times. May slaps them all down!

    May just isn't interested in that sort of nonsense game playing, unlike the three musketeers and the continuity Osborne faction.
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    Not that I disagree with the government's approach, but this is funny:
    https://twitter.com/AhirShah/status/798861099156336641
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,822



    FWIW, Ipsos' Con/Lab figures continue to go up and down like a rollercoaster, and its Ukip figure is still well adrift of all the other pollsters.

    Look at the overall trend of all the national VI polls and things have been pretty close to static since Theresa May became PM in mid-July. There's still no clearly observable trend upwards or downwards for any of the main parties. The consistent Tory leads - for a Government in mid-term which is also dealing with huge challenges - are still remarkable.

    I think the issue is whether the Conservatives can hold on to their 40%+ share and Labour can move from their 30% share toward 35%.

    Governments often lead between elections - I don't think we can say the May Government is in its midterm just yet, that will take another 12-18 months. What we can probably say is the honeymoon period is coming to an end.

This discussion has been closed.