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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » With five days to go a Corbyn boost for the Lib Dems in Richmo

SystemSystem Posts: 11,004
edited November 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » With five days to go a Corbyn boost for the Lib Dems in Richmond Park – he’s to visit the constituency on Sunday

At last a positive step from LAB to help the LDs in the Richmond Park by-election. Corbyn is visiting the constituency on Sunday

Read the full story here


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  • Options
    Why does OGH feel the need to judge Zac by his father's wealth?
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    Why does OGH feel the need to judge Zac by his father's wealth?

    Because he wants the LD's to win.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Citing canvassing data as reflecting anything meaningful? And leaked by the LibDems - presumably made up to serve their campaign objectives

    And saying that you think that your opponents are misplaying their hand is not the same as whinging about facing opposition!

    Methinks OGH's prejudice is showing through...
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,919
    Sir James Goldsmith was undoubtedly very wealthy, but was he really a billionaire?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,919

    rcs1000 said:

    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    rcs1000 said:

    geoffw said:

    rcs1000 said:

    If we can lease Hong Kong for 99 years, I'd be happy with a 99 year transitional deal that keeps us in the single market and customs union
    I'm a free trader, I don't want to be in no customs union. Zero tariffs on all imports should be the starting point.
    True, that's why we should extend the customs union as far and as wide as possible.

    We need to invite Russia into the EU.
    The customs union has big tariff barriers Customs unions are anti-free trade, not pro. I want tariff free trade with the USA, Australia, Canada, India... as well as EU countries
    There is nothing inherently anti-free trade about a customs union, it - like so many things - is what you do with it that matters.
    I think you'll find it's in the name.
    You can have a customs unions with no tariffs, all it refers to is the fact that you have a common external tariff
    You don't think the CET restricts trade?
    Isn't the whole point of the CET to restrict trade?
    Well yes, doh! The idea of tariffs of all kinds is to protect some domestic industry or other. They are always bad news for consumers (everyone).
    The truth is that the developed nations have largely eliminated tariffs. If you look at manufactured goods from non-FTA countries, the Switzerland averages 2.7%, US averages 2.8%, the EU 3.0%, Australia averages 3.5%, Japan 6% and China 7.5%. Frankly the only major tariff nations left are in emerging markets.
    Why would we look at just manufactured goods?
    Because it flatters the EU when you include commodities: i.e., the EU imposes zero tariffs on iron ore, coal, gas, etc.

    Because the EU produces none* of these things internally it has zero rated all of them. This drags down their weighted average. I think the manufactured goods tells a truer tale.

    * None is not quite true. There is obviously some oil and gas production in the EU - it just accounts for only a tiny proportion of consumption.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    Sir James Goldsmith was undoubtedly very wealthy, but was he really a billionaire?

    He owned Marmite.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    By the way, why is it positive for the LD's for Corbyn to campaign for Labour in the by-election ?

    Surely reminding people that there is also a Labour candidate is negative for the LD as it splits the vote.
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    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,201
    edited November 2016
    Speedy said:

    By the way, why is it positive for the LD's for Corbyn to campaign for Labour in the by-election ?

    Surely reminding people that there is also a Labour candidate is negative for the LD as it splits the vote.

    Do you need it spelling out Speedy
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    Sir James Goldsmith was undoubtedly very wealthy, but was he really a billionaire?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/features/9320179/Goldsmith-and-Rothschild-dynasties-head-for-divorce.html

    I note that it sames that Sir James left "assets" worth £1.2bn, but says nothing about any associated debts...
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,838
    How does Corbyn turning up in Richmond help the LDs again? Surely he campaigns for the Labour Party candidate, reminding everyone it's a three horse race?
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,302

    Speedy said:

    By the way, why is it positive for the LD's for Corbyn to campaign for Labour in the by-election ?

    Surely reminding people that there is also a Labour candidate is negative for the LD as it splits the vote.

    Do you need it spelling out Speedy
    I would tend to agree with Speedy. Corbyn being a communist pillock is surely already factored in. Unless he brings Jerry Adams with him to knock on doors, I can only see him going to Richmond as offering a mild boost to the Labour candidate.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,123
    Speedy said:

    By the way, why is it positive for the LD's for Corbyn to campaign for Labour in the by-election ?

    Surely reminding people that there is also a Labour candidate is negative for the LD as it splits the vote.

    But reminding people that a vote for Labour is a vote for him is all too likely to unify it again. I am with Mike on this one.
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    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    Sandpit said:

    How does Corbyn turning up in Richmond help the LDs again? Surely he campaigns for the Labour Party candidate, reminding everyone it's a three horse race?

    Because he's reminding people how lame and sickly the third horse is...
  • Options
    Sandpit said:

    How does Corbyn turning up in Richmond help the LDs again? Surely he campaigns for the Labour Party candidate, reminding everyone it's a three horse race?

    I was told by a reliable source in the polling industry that when in the voting intention question you say 'The Jeremy Corbyn led Labour Party' sees a significant drop in Labour's share of the vote.

    Just imagine the drop in the Labour share of the vote if Corbyn and turns up and campaigns in person, have you seen his personal ratings?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,919

    Sandpit said:

    How does Corbyn turning up in Richmond help the LDs again? Surely he campaigns for the Labour Party candidate, reminding everyone it's a three horse race?

    Because he's reminding people how lame and sickly the third horse is...
    There are places where Jeremy Corbyn turning up would boost the Labour share.

    Richmond-upon-Thames is not one of those places.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    More anti Corbyn MSM bias.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,919
    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sir James Goldsmith was undoubtedly very wealthy, but was he really a billionaire?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/features/9320179/Goldsmith-and-Rothschild-dynasties-head-for-divorce.html

    I note that it sames that Sir James left "assets" worth £1.2bn, but says nothing about any associated debts...
    When Robert Maxwell died, he left a lot of assets...
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,838

    Sandpit said:

    How does Corbyn turning up in Richmond help the LDs again? Surely he campaigns for the Labour Party candidate, reminding everyone it's a three horse race?

    Because he's reminding people how lame and sickly the third horse is...
    LOL, maybe!
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,919

    rcs1000 said:

    Sir James Goldsmith was undoubtedly very wealthy, but was he really a billionaire?

    He owned Marmite.
    If you'll give me a billion quid, I'm pretty sure I can buy you Marmite.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,123
    This has got to be the stupidest by election since Haltemprice and Howden and it would really deserve Zac right if he lost. The man is an embarrassment and it is pretty hard to conclude that the HoC would be impoverished by his absence.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,838
    edited November 2016

    Sandpit said:

    How does Corbyn turning up in Richmond help the LDs again? Surely he campaigns for the Labour Party candidate, reminding everyone it's a three horse race?

    I was told by a reliable source in the polling industry that when in the voting intention question you say 'The Jeremy Corbyn led Labour Party' sees a significant drop in Labour's share of the vote.

    Just imagine the drop in the Labour share of the vote if Corbyn and turns up and campaigns in person, have you seen his personal ratings?
    True, although maybe as you and I are two of the 20% who think he's doing a good job of leading the Labour Party (to electoral oblivion!), he's not actually as popular as the polling suggests?
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    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869
    I thought the Labour party had a rule forbidding members to campaign for another party?

    If that's right, won't Mr Corbyn be vulnerable to being expelled?
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,919
    DavidL said:

    This has got to be the stupidest by election since Haltemprice and Howden and it would really deserve Zac right if he lost. The man is an embarrassment and it is pretty hard to conclude that the HoC would be impoverished by his absence.

    I think Richmond on Thames should be abolished and individual wards should join other more deserving constituencies, such as Stoke on Trent North, Orkney & Shetland, and maybe something near Norwich.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,123
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    This has got to be the stupidest by election since Haltemprice and Howden and it would really deserve Zac right if he lost. The man is an embarrassment and it is pretty hard to conclude that the HoC would be impoverished by his absence.

    I think Richmond on Thames should be abolished and individual wards should join other more deserving constituencies, such as Stoke on Trent North, Orkney & Shetland, and maybe something near Norwich.
    I can see where you are coming from...I will see it even more clearly if this tube is re-elected.
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    Sandpit said:

    How does Corbyn turning up in Richmond help the LDs again? Surely he campaigns for the Labour Party candidate, reminding everyone it's a three horse race?

    I was told by a reliable source in the polling industry that when in the voting intention question you say 'The Jeremy Corbyn led Labour Party' sees a significant drop in Labour's share of the vote.

    Just imagine the drop in the Labour share of the vote if Corbyn and turns up and campaigns in person, have you seen his personal ratings?
    That was before he had his big ideas re intervention for the common good and the internet of things:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqaQ_Bhgmrc
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,838
    DavidL said:

    This has got to be the stupidest by election since Haltemprice and Howden and it would really deserve Zac right if he lost. The man is an embarrassment and it is pretty hard to conclude that the HoC would be impoverished by his absence.

    Especially so, given that a new runway north of the existing field at LHR will result in fewer planes flying over Richmond!
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,123
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    This has got to be the stupidest by election since Haltemprice and Howden and it would really deserve Zac right if he lost. The man is an embarrassment and it is pretty hard to conclude that the HoC would be impoverished by his absence.

    Especially so, given that a new runway north of the existing field at LHR will result in fewer planes flying over Richmond!
    Don't even bother to apply rationality to the situation. We are way past that. It is decades since I voted anything but Tory in an election but I just could not bring myself to vote for this idiot, either for Mayor or as an MP.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,919
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    This has got to be the stupidest by election since Haltemprice and Howden and it would really deserve Zac right if he lost. The man is an embarrassment and it is pretty hard to conclude that the HoC would be impoverished by his absence.

    Especially so, given that a new runway north of the existing field at LHR will result in fewer planes flying over Richmond!
    I thought that was the purpose of his campaign: to increase the affordability of Richmond housing by worsening the noise pollution.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sir James Goldsmith was undoubtedly very wealthy, but was he really a billionaire?

    He owned Marmite.
    If you'll give me a billion quid, I'm pretty sure I can buy you Marmite.
    I've got some in a cupboard I can sell you.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,123
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    This has got to be the stupidest by election since Haltemprice and Howden and it would really deserve Zac right if he lost. The man is an embarrassment and it is pretty hard to conclude that the HoC would be impoverished by his absence.

    Especially so, given that a new runway north of the existing field at LHR will result in fewer planes flying over Richmond!
    I thought that was the purpose of his campaign: to increase the affordability of Richmond housing by worsening the noise pollution.
    I think the noise pollution will end when the votes are counted.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,838
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    This has got to be the stupidest by election since Haltemprice and Howden and it would really deserve Zac right if he lost. The man is an embarrassment and it is pretty hard to conclude that the HoC would be impoverished by his absence.

    Especially so, given that a new runway north of the existing field at LHR will result in fewer planes flying over Richmond!
    I thought that was the purpose of his campaign: to increase the affordability of Richmond housing by worsening the noise pollution.
    An unnecessary by-election certainly counts as noise pollution!

    Alternatively, I spent half of today watching and listening to GP2 cars, some good noise pollution there too - as opposed to the fancy-pants hybrid F1 cars, which are now really quiet.
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    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869

    Sandpit said:

    How does Corbyn turning up in Richmond help the LDs again? Surely he campaigns for the Labour Party candidate, reminding everyone it's a three horse race?

    I was told by a reliable source in the polling industry that when in the voting intention question you say 'The Jeremy Corbyn led Labour Party' sees a significant drop in Labour's share of the vote.

    Just imagine the drop in the Labour share of the vote if Corbyn and turns up and campaigns in person, have you seen his personal ratings?
    I think I misunderstood the intention behind the thread header. :smile:
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,919

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sir James Goldsmith was undoubtedly very wealthy, but was he really a billionaire?

    He owned Marmite.
    If you'll give me a billion quid, I'm pretty sure I can buy you Marmite.
    I've got some in a cupboard I can sell you.
    A friend of mine owned Marmite.com, and had a site about ancient marmites (I.e. pots).

    He had it stolen from him. I've never eaten Marmite since
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,838
    edited November 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sir James Goldsmith was undoubtedly very wealthy, but was he really a billionaire?

    He owned Marmite.
    If you'll give me a billion quid, I'm pretty sure I can buy you Marmite.
    I've got some in a cupboard I can sell you.
    A friend of mine owned Marmite.com, and had a site about ancient marmites (I.e. pots).

    He had it stolen from him. I've never eaten Marmite since
    That's a bit harsh, given that he was using it for something related to the name and not just squatting it. Did he offer to sell it to the food company when contacted? That's usually the mistake they make that provides the evidence against them.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,919
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sir James Goldsmith was undoubtedly very wealthy, but was he really a billionaire?

    He owned Marmite.
    If you'll give me a billion quid, I'm pretty sure I can buy you Marmite.
    I've got some in a cupboard I can sell you.
    A friend of mine owned Marmite.com, and had a site about ancient marmites (I.e. pots).

    He had it stolen from him. I've never eaten Marmite since
    That's a bit harsh, given that he was using it for something related to the name and not just squatting it. Did he offer to sell it to the food company when contacted? That's usually the mistake they make that is evidence against them.
    I think they got a judge to assign it to them and handed over $250 in compensation, or something like that. It was really bad behaviour against an American with an interest in ancient pots who'd never even heard of Marmite (TM).
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    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    This has got to be the stupidest by election since Haltemprice and Howden and it would really deserve Zac right if he lost. The man is an embarrassment and it is pretty hard to conclude that the HoC would be impoverished by his absence.

    Especially so, given that a new runway north of the existing field at LHR will result in fewer planes flying over Richmond!
    Don't even bother to apply rationality to the situation. We are way past that. It is decades since I voted anything but Tory in an election but I just could not bring myself to vote for this idiot, either for Mayor or as an MP.
    One of the legacies the Cameron Conservative Party & 'The A (sic) List'......
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    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    How does Corbyn turning up in Richmond help the LDs again? Surely he campaigns for the Labour Party candidate, reminding everyone it's a three horse race?

    Because he's reminding people how lame and sickly the third horse is...
    There are places where Jeremy Corbyn turning up would boost the Labour share.

    Richmond-upon-Thames is not one of those places.
    Yes but fortunately Raqqa doesn't elect MPs.
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    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
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    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642

    Why does OGH feel the need to judge Zac by his father's wealth?

    Indeed.

    I wonder if Lib Dem wealth bashers will be able to clarify at what amount inheritance becomes something to be ashamed of.
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    FPT
    rcs1000 said:

    PAW said:

    Four Chinese banks to build a second Canary Wharf in the East End... seems a vote of confidence in London.

    The Chinese are desperately trying to get money out of China right now. They've been buying up properties and property companies in Milan, Barcelona, Madrid and Eastern Germany.
    That sounds like crash imminent talk.
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    MP_SE said:
    BTW Does Stein want a recount in New Hampshire ?
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    nielhnielh Posts: 1,307
    Corbyn turning up just really highlights the stupidity of the labour strategy. First they select a decent candidate, then the leader turns up in the constituency to campaign.

    This can only result in one of two outcomes a) lib dems lose narrowly as labour split the vote b) labour get panned despite the fact corbyn showed up.

    I don't see how this is a boost for the lib dems. He will convince a few labour leaning voters back in to voting for labour who may have otherwise voted lib dem.

    Labour would have done better to field a pro brexit candidate, and give the lib dems free run on the pro EU vote.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,621
    nielh said:


    I don't see how this is a boost for the lib dems. He will convince a few labour leaning voters back in to voting for labour who may have otherwise voted lib dem.

    Yes, probably. Seems wishful thinking, however bad Corbyn is, that he will increase the LD vote unintentionally.
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    nielhnielh Posts: 1,307

    FPT

    rcs1000 said:

    PAW said:

    Four Chinese banks to build a second Canary Wharf in the East End... seems a vote of confidence in London.

    The Chinese are desperately trying to get money out of China right now. They've been buying up properties and property companies in Milan, Barcelona, Madrid and Eastern Germany.
    That sounds like crash imminent talk.
    The Chinese are always trying to get money out of China, its been the case for at least the last 15 years. Nothing new.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,919

    FPT

    rcs1000 said:

    PAW said:

    Four Chinese banks to build a second Canary Wharf in the East End... seems a vote of confidence in London.

    The Chinese are desperately trying to get money out of China right now. They've been buying up properties and property companies in Milan, Barcelona, Madrid and Eastern Germany.
    That sounds like crash imminent talk.
    I'm not predicting am imminent crash! It's more the case that wealthy Chinese individuals and corporates want to move assets beyond the reach of the Chinese state.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,838
    edited November 2016

    FPT

    rcs1000 said:

    PAW said:

    Four Chinese banks to build a second Canary Wharf in the East End... seems a vote of confidence in London.

    The Chinese are desperately trying to get money out of China right now. They've been buying up properties and property companies in Milan, Barcelona, Madrid and Eastern Germany.
    That sounds like crash imminent talk.
    And remember that one needs to have pretty good connections to get cash out of China in the first place - suggests that those at the top are feeling nervous about their own country's economic future, at least in the short term. Or else the govt are planning a raid on private wealth, and those tipped off are getting it all out!
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    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    Yes, being more serious i'm sure if Corbyn does turn up the media will jump on this;

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/80538/excl-labour-election-candidate-christian-wolmar

    And it may even give Wolmar a boost...
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    DavidL said:

    This has got to be the stupidest by election since Haltemprice and Howden and it would really deserve Zac right if he lost. The man is an embarrassment and it is pretty hard to conclude that the HoC would be impoverished by his absence.

    Are you saying that the HoC would benefit from the presence of the LibDem candidate, whoever he is?
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    glwglw Posts: 9,549
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    This has got to be the stupidest by election since Haltemprice and Howden and it would really deserve Zac right if he lost. The man is an embarrassment and it is pretty hard to conclude that the HoC would be impoverished by his absence.

    Especially so, given that a new runway north of the existing field at LHR will result in fewer planes flying over Richmond!
    I thought that was the purpose of his campaign: to increase the affordability of Richmond housing by worsening the noise pollution.
    It will take more than a few planes to do that, maybe something like a nuclear accident would do the trick.
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    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642

    MP_SE said:
    BTW Does Stein want a recount in New Hampshire ?
    Of course not.

    Makes you wonder what Stein is playing at.
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    PAWPAW Posts: 1,074
    Are German exports to the Euro countries paid for in "trade credits via Target2"? Don't know what it means - but I am starting to feel sorry for the Germans.
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    nielhnielh Posts: 1,307
    Can Goldsmith actually lose this?
    It seems that he is a pretty weak candidate who did himself no favours with his Mayoral campaign. Will people in Richmond bother voting turning up to vote for him? Are his supporters as enthused about Heathrow as the opposition are regarding Brexit?
    My gut feeling was he should be a dead certainty but now I think the lib dem candidate has a genuine chance and at 5/2 the odds are okay.
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    nielh said:

    FPT

    rcs1000 said:

    PAW said:

    Four Chinese banks to build a second Canary Wharf in the East End... seems a vote of confidence in London.

    The Chinese are desperately trying to get money out of China right now. They've been buying up properties and property companies in Milan, Barcelona, Madrid and Eastern Germany.
    That sounds like crash imminent talk.
    The Chinese are always trying to get money out of China, its been the case for at least the last 15 years. Nothing new.
    rcs1000 said:

    FPT

    rcs1000 said:

    PAW said:

    Four Chinese banks to build a second Canary Wharf in the East End... seems a vote of confidence in London.

    The Chinese are desperately trying to get money out of China right now. They've been buying up properties and property companies in Milan, Barcelona, Madrid and Eastern Germany.
    That sounds like crash imminent talk.
    I'm not predicting am imminent crash! It's more the case that wealthy Chinese individuals and corporates want to move assets beyond the reach of the Chinese state.
    Yes - if it was 'cash flight' we wouldn't see the serious haggling over property prices from Chinese buyers involved in 'asset relocation'.....
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,919
    PAW said:

    Are German exports to the Euro countries paid for in "trade credits via Target2"? Don't know what it means - but I am starting to feel sorry for the Germans.

    No, Target 2 captures capital flight: I.e. in a zero interest rate environment you'd rather have your money in a German bank so that if the Eurozone collapsed you'd get Deutschmarks for your Euros.

    The Eurozone periphery all exports more than it imports these days.
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    rcs1000 said:

    FPT

    rcs1000 said:

    PAW said:

    Four Chinese banks to build a second Canary Wharf in the East End... seems a vote of confidence in London.

    The Chinese are desperately trying to get money out of China right now. They've been buying up properties and property companies in Milan, Barcelona, Madrid and Eastern Germany.
    That sounds like crash imminent talk.
    I'm not predicting am imminent crash! It's more the case that wealthy Chinese individuals and corporates want to move assets beyond the reach of the Chinese state.
    But hasn't that always been the case ? And not just the Chinese wealthy and corporations but those of other non-Western countries as well.

    Your use of the word 'desperately' attracted by attention.

    As an analogy I go to the toilet regularly but occasionally I desperately need to go to the toilet. And if I didn't manage to do so then disaster would ensue.

    Are the Chinese facing that sort of disaster if their attempts at getting money out of China fail.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,919
    GeoffM said:

    DavidL said:

    This has got to be the stupidest by election since Haltemprice and Howden and it would really deserve Zac right if he lost. The man is an embarrassment and it is pretty hard to conclude that the HoC would be impoverished by his absence.

    Are you saying that the HoC would benefit from the presence of the LibDem candidate, whoever he is?
    The HoC would be better with 649 constituencies.
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    rcs1000 said:

    GeoffM said:

    DavidL said:

    This has got to be the stupidest by election since Haltemprice and Howden and it would really deserve Zac right if he lost. The man is an embarrassment and it is pretty hard to conclude that the HoC would be impoverished by his absence.

    Are you saying that the HoC would benefit from the presence of the LibDem candidate, whoever he is?
    The HoC would be better with 649 constituencies.
    I'm in favour of the 600 idea. Plenty on both sides of the HoC who would make their most useful contribution to society by retiring.
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    nielhnielh Posts: 1,307
    Sandpit said:

    FPT

    rcs1000 said:

    PAW said:

    Four Chinese banks to build a second Canary Wharf in the East End... seems a vote of confidence in London.

    The Chinese are desperately trying to get money out of China right now. They've been buying up properties and property companies in Milan, Barcelona, Madrid and Eastern Germany.
    That sounds like crash imminent talk.
    And remember that one needs to have pretty good connections to get cash out of China in the first place - suggests that those at the top are feeling nervous about their own country's economic future, at least in the short term. Or else the govt are planning a raid on private wealth, and those tipped off are getting it all out!
    But this has always been the case. It has always been impossible to have any real assets in China. Property is leased. Businesses can be closed down at the whim of the state. And the state of nervousness about China's economic future is perpetual. It is nothing new. Hence the tendency towards bizarre and contrarian foreign investments.
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    I like this, after Brexit we Brits will be able to buy EU citizenship if Guy Verhofstadt gets his way

    https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/802259191809343489
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,606

    I like this, after Brexit we Brits will be able to buy EU citizenship if Guy Verhofstadt gets his way

    https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/802259191809343489

    EU citizenship is a concept, which nation is going to sponsor this idea?
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    I have split out the figures for the 21 English council by elections fought in November .
    Vote shares and changes on last time fought were

    Con 38.9% plus 3.4%
    Lab 30.3% plus 3.1%
    LDem 20.0% plus 7.8%
    UKIP 6.3% minus 7.1%
    Green 2.6% minus 5.7%
    Others 1.9% minus 1.5%

    1 was last fought in 2013 , 3 ( in London ) were last fought in 2014 , 7 were last fought in 2015 and 10 were last fought earlier this year .
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    I like this, after Brexit we Brits will be able to buy EU citizenship if Guy Verhofstadt gets his way

    I suppose the converse could also apply?

    EU Citizens pay to get 'UK associate citizenship'?
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,919
    GeoffM said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GeoffM said:

    DavidL said:

    This has got to be the stupidest by election since Haltemprice and Howden and it would really deserve Zac right if he lost. The man is an embarrassment and it is pretty hard to conclude that the HoC would be impoverished by his absence.

    Are you saying that the HoC would benefit from the presence of the LibDem candidate, whoever he is?
    The HoC would be better with 649 constituencies.
    I'm in favour of the 600 idea. Plenty on both sides of the HoC who would make their most useful contribution to society by retiring.
    I'd like to break the geographic link between constituencies and their MPs. It's so 18th century.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,621
    rcs1000 said:

    GeoffM said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GeoffM said:

    DavidL said:

    This has got to be the stupidest by election since Haltemprice and Howden and it would really deserve Zac right if he lost. The man is an embarrassment and it is pretty hard to conclude that the HoC would be impoverished by his absence.

    Are you saying that the HoC would benefit from the presence of the LibDem candidate, whoever he is?
    The HoC would be better with 649 constituencies.
    I'm in favour of the 600 idea. Plenty on both sides of the HoC who would make their most useful contribution to society by retiring.
    I'd like to break the geographic link between constituencies and their MPs. It's so 18th century.
    That something is old doesn't mean its a bad idea - what is the actual problem with the geographic link, in your view? It turns them into glorified social workers? Too focused on local issues to craft good national legislation?
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,606

    I like this, after Brexit we Brits will be able to buy EU citizenship if Guy Verhofstadt gets his way

    I suppose the converse could also apply?

    EU Citizens pay to get 'UK associate citizenship'?
    Well yes, it does open the door to "social access charges" for EU citizens in the UK.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,919
    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GeoffM said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GeoffM said:

    DavidL said:

    This has got to be the stupidest by election since Haltemprice and Howden and it would really deserve Zac right if he lost. The man is an embarrassment and it is pretty hard to conclude that the HoC would be impoverished by his absence.

    Are you saying that the HoC would benefit from the presence of the LibDem candidate, whoever he is?
    The HoC would be better with 649 constituencies.
    I'm in favour of the 600 idea. Plenty on both sides of the HoC who would make their most useful contribution to society by retiring.
    I'd like to break the geographic link between constituencies and their MPs. It's so 18th century.
    That something is old doesn't mean its a bad idea - what is the actual problem with the geographic link, in your view? It turns them into glorified social workers? Too focused on local issues to craft good national legislation?
    In the old days, the people you had commonality of interest with were your neighbours. These days, that's simply not true.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    GeoffM said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GeoffM said:

    DavidL said:

    This has got to be the stupidest by election since Haltemprice and Howden and it would really deserve Zac right if he lost. The man is an embarrassment and it is pretty hard to conclude that the HoC would be impoverished by his absence.

    Are you saying that the HoC would benefit from the presence of the LibDem candidate, whoever he is?
    The HoC would be better with 649 constituencies.
    I'm in favour of the 600 idea. Plenty on both sides of the HoC who would make their most useful contribution to society by retiring.
    I'd like to break the geographic link between constituencies and their MPs. It's so 18th century.
    I assume you would also like to break habeas corpus and the Bill of Rights as they are so 17th century?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,919

    rcs1000 said:

    GeoffM said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GeoffM said:

    DavidL said:

    This has got to be the stupidest by election since Haltemprice and Howden and it would really deserve Zac right if he lost. The man is an embarrassment and it is pretty hard to conclude that the HoC would be impoverished by his absence.

    Are you saying that the HoC would benefit from the presence of the LibDem candidate, whoever he is?
    The HoC would be better with 649 constituencies.
    I'm in favour of the 600 idea. Plenty on both sides of the HoC who would make their most useful contribution to society by retiring.
    I'd like to break the geographic link between constituencies and their MPs. It's so 18th century.
    I assume you would also like to break habeas corpus and the Bill of Rights as they are so 17th century?
    We organised people by geography because there was no better way. There is now.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,919
    I'm watching Jewel of the Nile. It's wonderfully silly.
  • Options
    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GeoffM said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GeoffM said:

    DavidL said:

    This has got to be the stupidest by election since Haltemprice and Howden and it would really deserve Zac right if he lost. The man is an embarrassment and it is pretty hard to conclude that the HoC would be impoverished by his absence.

    Are you saying that the HoC would benefit from the presence of the LibDem candidate, whoever he is?
    The HoC would be better with 649 constituencies.
    I'm in favour of the 600 idea. Plenty on both sides of the HoC who would make their most useful contribution to society by retiring.
    I'd like to break the geographic link between constituencies and their MPs. It's so 18th century.
    That something is old doesn't mean its a bad idea - what is the actual problem with the geographic link, in your view? It turns them into glorified social workers? Too focused on local issues to craft good national legislation?
    In the old days, the people you had commonality of interest with were your neighbours. These days, that's simply not true.
    Are you arguing for gerrymandered boundaries a la USA drawn to reflect commonality of interest , perhaps by race , religion or employment ?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,621
    Individuals buying EU citizenship if they want it? What's the downside? It's be no different than people having dual citizenship?
  • Options

    I like this, after Brexit we Brits will be able to buy EU citizenship if Guy Verhofstadt gets his way

    https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/802259191809343489

    This is really funny. It is like the suggestion that the EU should offer all UK citizens EU citizenship. It misses the point that such a arrangements would be a complete win:win for the UK as they would demand no reciprocal act by the UK and so would only make Brexit more attractive .
  • Options
    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869
    kle4 said:

    Individuals buying EU citizenship if they want it? What's the downside? It's be no different than people having dual citizenship?

    Is the proposal to buy it or rent it? Makes quite a difference.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GeoffM said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GeoffM said:

    DavidL said:

    This has got to be the stupidest by election since Haltemprice and Howden and it would really deserve Zac right if he lost. The man is an embarrassment and it is pretty hard to conclude that the HoC would be impoverished by his absence.

    Are you saying that the HoC would benefit from the presence of the LibDem candidate, whoever he is?
    The HoC would be better with 649 constituencies.
    I'm in favour of the 600 idea. Plenty on both sides of the HoC who would make their most useful contribution to society by retiring.
    I'd like to break the geographic link between constituencies and their MPs. It's so 18th century.
    I assume you would also like to break habeas corpus and the Bill of Rights as they are so 17th century?
    We organised people by geography because there was no better way. There is now.
    No there really isn't. Many of the concerns of people - employment, access to services, new develomemt and basic economic prosperity are still fundementally geographically based. As long as that is the case the argument for individual constituency representatives is overwhelming.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,919

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GeoffM said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GeoffM said:

    DavidL said:

    This has got to be the stupidest by election since Haltemprice and Howden and it would really deserve Zac right if he lost. The man is an embarrassment and it is pretty hard to conclude that the HoC would be impoverished by his absence.

    Are you saying that the HoC would benefit from the presence of the LibDem candidate, whoever he is?
    The HoC would be better with 649 constituencies.
    I'm in favour of the 600 idea. Plenty on both sides of the HoC who would make their most useful contribution to society by retiring.
    I'd like to break the geographic link between constituencies and their MPs. It's so 18th century.
    I assume you would also like to break habeas corpus and the Bill of Rights as they are so 17th century?
    We organised people by geography because there was no better way. There is now.
    No there really isn't. Many of the concerns of people - employment, access to services, new develomemt and basic economic prosperity are still fundementally geographically based. As long as that is the case the argument for individual constituency representatives is overwhelming.
    But most of those things are at a local level not a national one.

    We should have a 100 question survey, and then an algorithm that pots you asking with the one six hundredth of the population most like you. It would be entirely algorithmic, so no chance of gerrymandering. And it would ensure that you, and your fellow constituents, actually had things in common.
  • Options
    MaxPB said:

    I like this, after Brexit we Brits will be able to buy EU citizenship if Guy Verhofstadt gets his way

    I suppose the converse could also apply?

    EU Citizens pay to get 'UK associate citizenship'?
    Well yes, it does open the door to "social access charges" for EU citizens in the UK.
    Wonder what the reaction would be f the UK proposed it? :|Innocent Face|:
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GeoffM said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GeoffM said:

    DavidL said:

    This has got to be the stupidest by election since Haltemprice and Howden and it would really deserve Zac right if he lost. The man is an embarrassment and it is pretty hard to conclude that the HoC would be impoverished by his absence.

    Are you saying that the HoC would benefit from the presence of the LibDem candidate, whoever he is?
    The HoC would be better with 649 constituencies.
    I'm in favour of the 600 idea. Plenty on both sides of the HoC who would make their most useful contribution to society by retiring.
    I'd like to break the geographic link between constituencies and their MPs. It's so 18th century.
    I assume you would also like to break habeas corpus and the Bill of Rights as they are so 17th century?
    We organised people by geography because there was no better way. There is now.
    No there really isn't. Many of the concerns of people - employment, access to services, new develomemt and basic economic prosperity are still fundementally geographically based. As long as that is the case the argument for individual constituency representatives is overwhelming.
    But most of those things are at a local level not a national one.

    We should have a 100 question survey, and then an algorithm that pots you asking with the one six hundredth of the population most like you. It would be entirely algorithmic, so no chance of gerrymandering. And it would ensure that you, and your fellow constituents, actually had things in common.
    And what about local issues such as the quality of beaches or the site of anuclear power station?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,621
    edited November 2016

    I like this, after Brexit we Brits will be able to buy EU citizenship if Guy Verhofstadt gets his way

    https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/802259191809343489

    This is really funny. It is like the suggestion that the EU should offer all UK citizens EU citizenship. It misses the point that such a arrangements would be a complete win:win for the UK as they would demand no reciprocal act by the UK and so would only make Brexit more attractive .
    I should think making Brexit more attractive would not be unappealing for Mr Verhofstadt. We were a barrier to things he wanted to happen before we said we'd leave, he probably wants us to change our minds less than Farage (notwithstanding he probably didn't actually want us to vote to leave - but now we have)
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,919
    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GeoffM said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GeoffM said:

    DavidL said:

    This has got to be the stupidest by election since Haltemprice and Howden and it would really deserve Zac right if he lost. The man is an embarrassment and it is pretty hard to conclude that the HoC would be impoverished by his absence.

    Are you saying that the HoC would benefit from the presence of the LibDem candidate, whoever he is?
    The HoC would be better with 649 constituencies.
    I'm in favour of the 600 idea. Plenty on both sides of the HoC who would make their most useful contribution to society by retiring.
    I'd like to break the geographic link between constituencies and their MPs. It's so 18th century.
    I assume you would also like to break habeas corpus and the Bill of Rights as they are so 17th century?
    We organised people by geography because there was no better way. There is now.
    No there really isn't. Many of the concerns of people - employment, access to services, new develomemt and basic economic prosperity are still fundementally geographically based. As long as that is the case the argument for individual constituency representatives is overwhelming.
    But most of those things are at a local level not a national one.

    We should have a 100 question survey, and then an algorithm that pots you asking with the one six hundredth of the population most like you. It would be entirely algorithmic, so no chance of gerrymandering. And it would ensure that you, and your fellow constituents, actually had things in common.
    And what about local issues such as the quality of beaches or the site of anuclear power station?
    Exactly: it avoids NIMBY concerns, and encourages us to think as one Demos.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,621
    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GeoffM said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GeoffM said:

    DavidL said:

    This has got to be the stupidest by election since Haltemprice and Howden and it would really deserve Zac right if he lost. The man is an embarrassment and it is pretty hard to conclude that the HoC would be impoverished by his absence.

    Are you saying that the HoC would benefit from the presence of the LibDem candidate, whoever he is?
    The HoC would be better with 649 constituencies.
    I'm in favour of the 600 idea. Plenty on both sides of the HoC who would make their most useful contribution to society by retiring.
    I'd like to break the geographic link between constituencies and their MPs. It's so 18th century.
    I assume you would also like to break habeas corpus and the Bill of Rights as they are so 17th century?
    We organised people by geography because there was no better way. There is now.
    No there really isn't. Many of the concerns of people - employment, access to services, new develomemt and basic economic prosperity are still fundementally geographically based. As long as that is the case the argument for individual constituency representatives is overwhelming.
    But most of those things are at a local level not a national one.

    We should have a 100 question survey, and then an algorithm that pots you asking with the one six hundredth of the population most like you. It would be entirely algorithmic, so no chance of gerrymandering. And it would ensure that you, and your fellow constituents, actually had things in common.
    And what about local issues such as the quality of beaches or the site of anuclear power station?
    Exactly: it avoids NIMBY concerns, and encourages us to think as one Demos.
    Such as a European Demos?
  • Options
    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GeoffM said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GeoffM said:

    DavidL said:

    This has got to be the stupidest by election since Haltemprice and Howden and it would really deserve Zac right if he lost. The man is an embarrassment and it is pretty hard to conclude that the HoC would be impoverished by his absence.

    Are you saying that the HoC would benefit from the presence of the LibDem candidate, whoever he is?
    The HoC would be better with 649 constituencies.
    I'm in favour of the 600 idea. Plenty on both sides of the HoC who would make their most useful contribution to society by retiring.
    I'd like to break the geographic link between constituencies and their MPs. It's so 18th century.
    That something is old doesn't mean its a bad idea - what is the actual problem with the geographic link, in your view? It turns them into glorified social workers? Too focused on local issues to craft good national legislation?
    In the old days, the people you had commonality of interest with were your neighbours. These days, that's simply not true.
    so back in the day, every MP was elected with huge majorities because all of his/ her constituents had common interests. I hadn't realised
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,549
    kle4 said:

    Individuals buying EU citizenship if they want it? What's the downside? It's be no different than people having dual citizenship?

    If Brits that want EU citizenship can pay — put your money where your mouth is Remainers —and if we don't have to offer any reciprocal arrangement, then it is a win-win for the UK. Obviously there is a cost, but it will be borne by those that want EU citizenship. There has to be a gotcha as this is verging on the too good to be true.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GeoffM said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GeoffM said:

    DavidL said:

    This has got to be the stupidest by election since Haltemprice and Howden and it would really deserve Zac right if he lost. The man is an embarrassment and it is pretty hard to conclude that the HoC would be impoverished by his absence.

    Are you saying that the HoC would benefit from the presence of the LibDem candidate, whoever he is?
    The HoC would be better with 649 constituencies.
    I'm in favour of the 600 idea. Plenty on both sides of the HoC who would make their most useful contribution to society by retiring.
    I'd like to break the geographic link between constituencies and their MPs. It's so 18th century.
    I assume you would also like to break habeas corpus and the Bill of Rights as they are so 17th century?
    We organised people by geography because there was no better way. There is now.
    No there really isn't. Many of the concerns of people - employment, access to services, new develomemt and basic economic prosperity are still fundementally geographically based. As long as that is the case the argument for individual constituency representatives is overwhelming.
    But most of those things are at a local level not a national one.

    We should have a 100 question survey, and then an algorithm that pots you asking with the one six hundredth of the population most like you. It would be entirely algorithmic, so no chance of gerrymandering. And it would ensure that you, and your fellow constituents, actually had things in common.
    And what about local issues such as the quality of beaches or the site of anuclear power station?
    Exactly: it avoids NIMBY concerns, and encourages us to think as one Demos.
    But where there are locally focused negative externalities those should be represented.
  • Options
    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GeoffM said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GeoffM said:

    DavidL said:

    This has got to be the stupidest by election since Haltemprice and Howden and it would really deserve Zac right if he lost. The man is an embarrassment and it is pretty hard to conclude that the HoC would be impoverished by his absence.

    Are you saying that the HoC would benefit from the presence of the LibDem candidate, whoever he is?
    The HoC would be better with 649 constituencies.
    I'm in favour of the 600 idea. Plenty on both sides of the HoC who would make their most useful contribution to society by retiring.
    I'd like to break the geographic link between constituencies and their MPs. It's so 18th century.
    I assume you would also like to break habeas corpus and the Bill of Rights as they are so 17th century?
    We organised people by geography because there was no better way. There is now.
    No there really isn't. Many of the concerns of people - employment, access to services, new develomemt and basic economic prosperity are still fundementally geographically based. As long as that is the case the argument for individual constituency representatives is overwhelming.
    But most of those things are at a local level not a national one.

    We should have a 100 question survey, and then an algorithm that pots you asking with the one six hundredth of the population most like you. It would be entirely algorithmic, so no chance of gerrymandering. And it would ensure that you, and your fellow constituents, actually had things in common.
    Might as well have constituencies based on MBTI assessment.

    I've answered enough polls & surveys to know how hard it is to fit oneself into whatever categories the surveyors offer.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,616
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GeoffM said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GeoffM said:

    DavidL said:

    This has got to be the stupidest by election since Haltemprice and Howden and it would really deserve Zac right if he lost. The man is an embarrassment and it is pretty hard to conclude that the HoC would be impoverished by his absence.

    Are you saying that the HoC would benefit from the presence of the LibDem candidate, whoever he is?
    The HoC would be better with 649 constituencies.
    I'm in favour of the 600 idea. Plenty on both sides of the HoC who would make their most useful contribution to society by retiring.
    I'd like to break the geographic link between constituencies and their MPs. It's so 18th century.
    I assume you would also like to break habeas corpus and the Bill of Rights as they are so 17th century?
    We organised people by geography because there was no better way. There is now.
    I did a study back in the late Noughties about whether groups of local authorities by geography were more cohesive[1] than groups of local authorities by socioeconomicstatus (I think it was the Acorn groups, which can be subdivided, but don't quote me). It turns out it's by geography: the number of subdivisions by socioeconomy you have to use outweigh the advantages. Plus grouping by geography is administratively easier. People may be white or black, rich or poor, old or young, gay or straight, but damn nearly all of them have an address, even the temporarily homed.

    What's the old Alan Sugar line? A/S/L? Age, Sex, Location. Get those three in and you can start an administration: heck, you could do an entire census with just those three if you were so inclined.

    [1] We had great fun designing metrics of cohesion. I came up with one called "quintessence". God knows what it was, but it sounded kewl. Unfortunately it was less popular than cold sick.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,621
    glw said:

    kle4 said:

    Individuals buying EU citizenship if they want it? What's the downside? It's be no different than people having dual citizenship?

    If Brits that want EU citizenship can pay — put your money where your mouth is Remainers —and if we don't have to offer any reciprocal arrangement, then it is a win-win for the UK. Obviously there is a cost, but it will be borne by those that want EU citizenship. There has to be a gotcha as this is verging on the too good to be true.
    I guess they wouldn't be able to agree on how much the price would be and how long the 'purchase' would last for, so would be unworkable?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,919
    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GeoffM said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GeoffM said:

    DavidL said:

    This has got to be the stupidest by election since Haltemprice and Howden and it would really deserve Zac right if he lost. The man is an embarrassment and it is pretty hard to conclude that the HoC would be impoverished by his absence.

    Are you saying that the HoC would benefit from the presence of the LibDem candidate, whoever he is?
    The HoC would be better with 649 constituencies.
    I'm in favour of the 600 idea. Plenty on both sides of the HoC who would make their most useful contribution to society by retiring.
    I'd like to break the geographic link between constituencies and their MPs. It's so 18th century.
    I assume you would also like to break habeas corpus and the Bill of Rights as they are so 17th century?
    We organised people by geography because there was no better way. There is now.
    No there really isn't. Many of the concerns of people - employment, access to services, new develomemt and basic economic prosperity are still fundementally geographically based. As long as that is the case the argument for individual constituency representatives is overwhelming.
    But most of those things are at a local level not a national one.

    We should have a 100 question survey, and then an algorithm that pots you asking with the one six hundredth of the population most like you. It would be entirely algorithmic, so no chance of gerrymandering. And it would ensure that you, and your fellow constituents, actually had things in common.
    And what about local issues such as the quality of beaches or the site of anuclear power station?
    Exactly: it avoids NIMBY concerns, and encourages us to think as one Demos.
    But where there are locally focused negative externalities those should be represented.
    Shhh. Can you stop interrupting my silly idea with actual logic.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,616
    edited November 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    And what about local issues such as the quality of beaches or the site of anuclear power station?

    Exactly: it avoids NIMBY concerns, and encourages us to think as one Demos.
    Try doing that with intensive care units in maternity departments... :)
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095

    I like this, after Brexit we Brits will be able to buy EU citizenship if Guy Verhofstadt gets his way

    https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/802259191809343489

    This is really funny. It is like the suggestion that the EU should offer all UK citizens EU citizenship. It misses the point that such a arrangements would be a complete win:win for the UK as they would demand no reciprocal act by the UK and so would only make Brexit more attractive .
    Yep. It's an encouraging sign of what we can achieve in these negotiations if these folks are really this dumb....
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,616
    glw said:



    If Brits that want EU citizenship can pay — put your money where your mouth is Remainers —and if we don't have to offer any reciprocal arrangement, then it is a win-win for the UK. Obviously there is a cost, but it will be borne by those that want EU citizenship. There has to be a gotcha as this is verging on the too good to be true.

    It would depend on what you get for it. If I got freedom of movement and the protection of the ECHR, it might be worth forking out a grand or two: I'm reaching the age where retiring to a warm climate appeals, and if the funny cops decide to install me in Paddington Green and bring out the hot needles, it would be nice to have somebody to say "er, torture, nein danke"

  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,919
    viewcode said:

    glw said:



    If Brits that want EU citizenship can pay — put your money where your mouth is Remainers —and if we don't have to offer any reciprocal arrangement, then it is a win-win for the UK. Obviously there is a cost, but it will be borne by those that want EU citizenship. There has to be a gotcha as this is verging on the too good to be true.

    It would depend on what you get for it. If I got freedom of movement and the protection of the ECHR, it might be worth forking out a grand or two: I'm reaching the age where retiring to a warm climate appeals, and if the funny cops decide to install me in Paddington Green and bring out the hot needles, it would be nice to have somebody to say "er, torture, nein danke"

    Obviously, being an EU citizen (or a US citizen) could not grant you additional rights in the UK.

    Of course, offering a paid for EU citizenship is just the EU doing what I've suggested all along: allowing the free market to work for immigration.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,621
    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    glw said:



    If Brits that want EU citizenship can pay — put your money where your mouth is Remainers —and if we don't have to offer any reciprocal arrangement, then it is a win-win for the UK. Obviously there is a cost, but it will be borne by those that want EU citizenship. There has to be a gotcha as this is verging on the too good to be true.

    It would depend on what you get for it. If I got freedom of movement and the protection of the ECHR, it might be worth forking out a grand or two: I'm reaching the age where retiring to a warm climate appeals, and if the funny cops decide to install me in Paddington Green and bring out the hot needles, it would be nice to have somebody to say "er, torture, nein danke"

    Obviously, being an EU citizen (or a US citizen) could not grant you additional rights in the UK.

    Of course, offering a paid for EU citizenship is just the EU doing what I've suggested all along: allowing the free market to work for immigration.
    Would paying for EU citizenship be open to anyone, or just, say, associate countries like the UK, in your perfect system?
  • Options
    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    @rcs1000

    You suggested Ridge wine several weeks ago. On my travels today I stumbled across a bottle of chardonnay. Unfortunately I will not be drinking it anytime soon so cannot comment on it. I do however, need to buy some of their Cabernet Sauvignon but have been awfully lazy lately and haven't had time.

    Cheers for the suggestion though.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,616
    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    glw said:



    If Brits that want EU citizenship can pay — put your money where your mouth is Remainers —and if we don't have to offer any reciprocal arrangement, then it is a win-win for the UK. Obviously there is a cost, but it will be borne by those that want EU citizenship. There has to be a gotcha as this is verging on the too good to be true.

    It would depend on what you get for it. If I got freedom of movement and the protection of the ECHR, it might be worth forking out a grand or two: I'm reaching the age where retiring to a warm climate appeals, and if the funny cops decide to install me in Paddington Green and bring out the hot needles, it would be nice to have somebody to say "er, torture, nein danke"

    Obviously, being an EU citizen (or a US citizen) could not grant you additional rights in the UK.

    Of course, offering a paid for EU citizenship is just the EU doing what I've suggested all along: allowing the free market to work for immigration.
    I'm not asking for "additional" rights. It's preserving the ones I have. 'Specially the not-being-tortured one. I'm quite fond of that one.
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    glwglw Posts: 9,549
    rcs1000 said:

    Of course, offering a paid for EU citizenship is just the EU doing what I've suggested all along: allowing the free market to work for immigration.

    Cameron had until the end of 2017, and I still can't fathom why we had the referendum this year after such lack of success in the negotiation. Cameron could have come back and kicked up a stink, sending the polls for leave soaring, and then gone back for Renegotiation Round II: This Time We Are Serious.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,621
    glw said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Of course, offering a paid for EU citizenship is just the EU doing what I've suggested all along: allowing the free market to work for immigration.

    Cameron had until the end of 2017, and I still can't fathom why we had the referendum this year after such lack of success in the negotiation. Cameron could have come back and kicked up a stink, sending the polls for leave soaring, and then gone back for Renegotiation Round II: This Time We Are Serious.
    I had two theories on that. One, he was worried we might have another migrant crisis year, stirring up matters such that even if he got a better deal, he would find it harder to get through than a lesser deal now. Two, he was still riding relatively high, and thought he could get it through now, and he needed to as he would find it harder to get a better deal next year when the French and Germans needed to do their own election posturing.
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    ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819

    Speedy said:

    By the way, why is it positive for the LD's for Corbyn to campaign for Labour in the by-election ?

    Surely reminding people that there is also a Labour candidate is negative for the LD as it splits the vote.

    Do you need it spelling out Speedy
    I would tend to agree with Speedy. Corbyn being a communist pillock is surely already factored in. Unless he brings Jerry Adams with him to knock on doors, I can only see him going to Richmond as offering a mild boost to the Labour candidate.
    Yes, in recent by-elections we haven't really seen the supposed coming collapse in the Labour vote. This is bad for LDs, not good. Looking to GE, he's unlikely to win over swing voters, but equally unlikely to lose the remaining labourites that voted miliband in 2015 (i.e Miliband was the floor of the labour vote).
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    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    edited November 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    Shhh. Can you stop interrupting my silly idea with actual logic.

    Let's just sort everyone into one of 600 random "constituencies". Should finish off the SNP, at any rate.
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