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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Saved by der Bellen but what will the Italian referendum bring

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited December 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Saved by der Bellen but what will the Italian referendum bring for the EU?

Saved by der Bellen? Hofer concedes in the Austrian Presidential election. But what does it mean for the EU?https://t.co/RHFJO7cIcW

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,922
    edited December 2016
    [Pretending to be drunk] In light of the Brexit vote, I'm thinking of starting a petition to officially rename Brussels Sprouts to "FREEDOM Sprouts"!
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,414
    edited December 2016
    (FPT) I am not hugely surprised about the Austrian result. Has a bit of the Winchester by election feel about it: people don't really like to have to vote again after a result has been arrived at (whatever the ins-and-outs) - it seems to galvanise them to turn out re-deliver the first result more convincingly.

    EDIT: Also, second. Like Hofer.
  • I'm really proud of the Saved by der Bellen pun.

    REALLY PROUD
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,749
    edited December 2016
    Not first, like the far right, Islamophobic, anti immgrant, Nazi rooted Hof.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,279
    Did those Austrian 16 - 18 year olds vote for Bellen or the bellend?

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/austria-opens-the-polls-to-16-year-olds-943706.html
  • DixieDixie Posts: 1,221

    I'm really proud of the Saved by der Bellen pun.

    REALLY PROUD

    very good indeed. Audience not yet appreciating it.
  • 46% is still a frighteningly high tally for a far right extremist.
  • TSE - you could have gone with Hofer And Out
  • I'm really proud of the Saved by der Bellen pun.

    REALLY PROUD

    Der Bellend, surely :lol:

    :lol::lol::lol:
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,774

    46% is still a frighteningly high tally for a far right extremist.

    He was facing a Far Left Extremist.
  • TSE - you could have gone with Hofer And Out

    Damnit.

    I did think about seguing in a reference to Ultravox too.
  • rcs1000 said:

    46% is still a frighteningly high tally for a far right extremist.

    He was facing a Far Left Extremist.
    The French could conceivably face a similar choice next year.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    Dixie said:

    I'm really proud of the Saved by der Bellen pun.

    REALLY PROUD

    very good indeed. Audience not yet appreciating it.
    I groaned. :D
  • TSE - you could have gone with Hofer And Out

    Damnit.

    I did think about seguing in a reference to Ultravox too.
    This means nothing to me.
  • TSE - you could have gone with Hofer And Out

    Presidential Run-Hof
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    TSE - you could have gone with Hofer And Out

    Damnit.

    I did think about seguing in a reference to Ultravox too.
    This means nothing to me.
  • TSE - you could have gone with Hofer And Out

    Damnit.

    I did think about seguing in a reference to Ultravox too.
    Shaddap your face!
  • Looks like The Daily Mail is unhappy Hofer lost. I reckon had he have won, they would gone with the headliine 'Hurrah for Hofer'

    https://twitter.com/b_judah/status/805472357779468288
  • rcs1000 said:
    What does his taste in neckwear have to do with anything?
  • DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    rcs1000 said:
    Thanks for this link. If I knew Italian I'd look for links between Beppe Grillo, Laura Olivetti, and the followers of Rudolf Steiner. The Steinerite bank Triodos is rarely far away whenever wind farms are concerned. (Might be some interesting stuff here.)

    Nicholas Farrell: "The followers of the M5S cult meet each other only in small local groups called Meetup — which, again, is similar to Scientologists — and use the internet not the telephone to communicate." I knew a few Meetup groups were nutty, but I had no idea that Meetup as a whole was that bad.
  • Final tally before the postals

    Van Der Bellen 2.062.920; 51.7
    Hofer 1.928.530; 48.3
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789

    Looks like The Daily Mail is unhappy Hofer lost. I reckon had he have won, they would gone with the headliine 'Hurrah for Hofer'

    Supporters of Brexit aren't doing themselves any favours tying themselves to the narrative of a collapsing EU. When the EU survives, as it will, a lot of people will wonder what the point of Brexit is.
  • "Hof faces Hassle after losing Austria vote."
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited December 2016
    7pm turnout not looking good for Renzi. Clear high turnouts in Veneto, Fruili, Emilia-Romagna and rural Lombardy. Only Tuscany comes close for Renzi. Central and Northwest going backwards.
  • Looks like The Daily Mail is unhappy Hofer lost. I reckon had he have won, they would gone with the headliine 'Hurrah for Hofer'

    Supporters of Brexit aren't doing themselves any favours tying themselves to the narrative of a collapsing EU. When the EU survives, as it will, a lot of people will wonder what the point of Brexit is.
    Not sure it is time to count those chickens yet. LePen could yet torpedo the whole thing. She is one major ISIS attack with chemical weapons and drones away from victory imho.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    FPT:
    Dixie said:

    Dixie said:

    Where's Andrea when you need him?

    I don't claim to be an expert but is Austrian bloke really far right? I've heard he's very hostile to Islam but is he really on the Le Pen/Gilders scale let alone Hitler?

    According to the ultra left wing media he is!
    you will recall that the mild mannered Austrian called Adolf was a socialist. And the media portrayed him as right wing...weirdly.
    Hitler was not mild-mannered, nor was he a socialist. Drexler was, hence the name.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969
    edited December 2016
    Gosh, Oxford University is terrible. Students are suing over the appalling bad teaching they have to deal with.

    An Oxford graduate is suing the university for £1m claiming the “appallingly bad” and “boring” teaching cost him a first-class degree and prevented him from having a successful career.

    Faiz Siddiqui, who studied modern history at Brasenose College, told the high court he believes he would have had a career as an international commercial lawyer if he had been awarded a first rather than the 2:1 he achieved 16 years ago.

    If he wins, the case could open the floodgates to similar claims from students complaining about inadequate teaching, unsuitable accommodation and poor decisions.


    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/dec/04/graduate-sues-oxford-university-1m-failure-first-faiz-siddiqui?CMP=twt_a-education_b-gdnedu

    Honestly, he'd have been better off going to Trump University than Oxford.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    edited December 2016
    You could have made a pun on Hofer losing brings hope to Austria, e.g. 'Im Osterreich, Sie Haben Hoffnung nicht Hofer.' That would have been more German in tone.

    But on the whole I prefer your original.

    (For those who don't know, 'hope' in German is 'hoffnung'.)

    Edited because autocorrect cannot deal with German.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Looks like The Daily Mail is unhappy Hofer lost. I reckon had he have won, they would gone with the headliine 'Hurrah for Hofer'

    Supporters of Brexit aren't doing themselves any favours tying themselves to the narrative of a collapsing EU. When the EU survives, as it will, a lot of people will wonder what the point of Brexit is.
    Not sure it is time to count those chickens yet. LePen could yet torpedo the whole thing. She is one major ISIS attack with chemical weapons and drones away from victory imho.
    Have previous terror attacks shifted polls her way? I understand that her polling has been fairly flat over the last 3 years.
  • DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194

    Looks like The Daily Mail is unhappy Hofer lost. I reckon had he have won, they would gone with the headliine 'Hurrah for Hofer'

    Supporters of Brexit aren't doing themselves any favours tying themselves to the narrative of a collapsing EU. When the EU survives, as it will, a lot of people will wonder what the point of Brexit is.
    Not sure it is time to count those chickens yet. LePen could yet torpedo the whole thing. She is one major ISIS attack with chemical weapons and drones away from victory imho.
    Or half a dozen priests gruesomely murdered on film using more commonplace weapons - some kind of attack that gets 90% of the population saying that politicians have faffed about posturing for years, but something must be done, and it must be done "bigly", right now.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Gosh, Oxford University is terrible. Students are suing over the appalling bad teaching they have to deal with.

    An Oxford graduate is suing the university for £1m claiming the “appallingly bad” and “boring” teaching cost him a first-class degree and prevented him from having a successful career.

    Faiz Siddiqui, who studied modern history at Brasenose College, told the high court he believes he would have had a career as an international commercial lawyer if he had been awarded a first rather than the 2:1 he achieved 16 years ago.

    If he wins, the case could open the floodgates to similar claims from students complaining about inadequate teaching, unsuitable accommodation and poor decisions.


    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/dec/04/graduate-sues-oxford-university-1m-failure-first-faiz-siddiqui?CMP=twt_a-education_b-gdnedu

    Honestly, he'd have been better off going to Trump University than Oxford.

    Do they teach the meaning of the phrase "sour grapes" at Oxford University?
  • AndyJS said:

    Gosh, Oxford University is terrible. Students are suing over the appalling bad teaching they have to deal with.

    An Oxford graduate is suing the university for £1m claiming the “appallingly bad” and “boring” teaching cost him a first-class degree and prevented him from having a successful career.

    Faiz Siddiqui, who studied modern history at Brasenose College, told the high court he believes he would have had a career as an international commercial lawyer if he had been awarded a first rather than the 2:1 he achieved 16 years ago.

    If he wins, the case could open the floodgates to similar claims from students complaining about inadequate teaching, unsuitable accommodation and poor decisions.


    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/dec/04/graduate-sues-oxford-university-1m-failure-first-faiz-siddiqui?CMP=twt_a-education_b-gdnedu

    Honestly, he'd have been better off going to Trump University than Oxford.

    Do they teach the meaning of the phrase "sour grapes" at Oxford University?
    I'd be surprised if they teach anything at Oxford.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758

    Gosh, Oxford University is terrible. Students are suing over the appalling bad teaching they have to deal with.

    An Oxford graduate is suing the university for £1m claiming the “appallingly bad” and “boring” teaching cost him a first-class degree and prevented him from having a successful career.

    Faiz Siddiqui, who studied modern history at Brasenose College, told the high court he believes he would have had a career as an international commercial lawyer if he had been awarded a first rather than the 2:1 he achieved 16 years ago.

    If he wins, the case could open the floodgates to similar claims from students complaining about inadequate teaching, unsuitable accommodation and poor decisions.


    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/dec/04/graduate-sues-oxford-university-1m-failure-first-faiz-siddiqui?CMP=twt_a-education_b-gdnedu

    Honestly, he'd have been better off going to Trump University than Oxford.

    Were you at Cambridge or Hull, The Screaming 'General Melchett' Eagles?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    Gosh, Oxford University is terrible. Students are suing over the appalling bad teaching they have to deal with.

    An Oxford graduate is suing the university for £1m claiming the “appallingly bad” and “boring” teaching cost him a first-class degree and prevented him from having a successful career.

    Faiz Siddiqui, who studied modern history at Brasenose College, told the high court he believes he would have had a career as an international commercial lawyer if he had been awarded a first rather than the 2:1 he achieved 16 years ago.

    If he wins, the case could open the floodgates to similar claims from students complaining about inadequate teaching, unsuitable accommodation and poor decisions.


    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/dec/04/graduate-sues-oxford-university-1m-failure-first-faiz-siddiqui?CMP=twt_a-education_b-gdnedu

    Honestly, he'd have been better off going to Trump University than Oxford.

    What a load of crap.
  • As a graduate of Brasenose College, Oxford, whose next job could (at a push) be classed as an "international commercial lawyer" I can have no complaints.

    If he had made it as a commercial lawyer, he'd have asked himself why it has taken 16 years to sue for the alleged breach.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517
    This is potentially going to be a very big story:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38201570

    It's slightly bemusing that the government sponsored a report into the future of Network Rail (Shaw Report) in March didn't (I think) recommend this.

    There's also the issue that if this goes ahead, the first crash that happens will automatically be blamed on the changes. Given the unprecedented recent safety record on the nationalised railway, that would be politically troubling.
  • Well Oxford's defence is interesting, looks like they aren't denying the substantive part

    Oxford University argues that the claim is baseless and should be struck out because of the number of years that have passed since Siddiqui graduated.

    The university admitted it had “difficulties” running the module in the year Siddiqui graduated because half of the teaching staff responsible for Asian history were on sabbatical leave at the same time.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    Gosh, Oxford University is terrible. Students are suing over the appalling bad teaching they have to deal with.

    An Oxford graduate is suing the university for £1m claiming the “appallingly bad” and “boring” teaching cost him a first-class degree and prevented him from having a successful career.

    Faiz Siddiqui, who studied modern history at Brasenose College, told the high court he believes he would have had a career as an international commercial lawyer if he had been awarded a first rather than the 2:1 he achieved 16 years ago.

    If he wins, the case could open the floodgates to similar claims from students complaining about inadequate teaching, unsuitable accommodation and poor decisions.


    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/dec/04/graduate-sues-oxford-university-1m-failure-first-faiz-siddiqui?CMP=twt_a-education_b-gdnedu

    Honestly, he'd have been better off going to Trump University than Oxford.

    Let him re-sit next week and accept the result of whatever he gets this time around.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    Well Oxford's defence is interesting, looks like they aren't denying the substantive part

    Oxford University argues that the claim is baseless and should be struck out because of the number of years that have passed since Siddiqui graduated.

    The university admitted it had “difficulties” running the module in the year Siddiqui graduated because half of the teaching staff responsible for Asian history were on sabbatical leave at the same time.

    If he was brought down to a 2:1 by one module, his average can't have been that far above the threshold anyway.
  • Well Oxford's defence is interesting, looks like they aren't denying the substantive part

    Oxford University argues that the claim is baseless and should be struck out because of the number of years that have passed since Siddiqui graduated.

    The university admitted it had “difficulties” running the module in the year Siddiqui graduated because half of the teaching staff responsible for Asian history were on sabbatical leave at the same time.

    Not the same thing as admitting a relevant duty of care and breach of it. Nor of course his claim for damages, I don't know how many papers he sat but he would have had to have been very close to a first, plus probably more than 50% of papers being first class.
  • DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    edited December 2016

    AndyJS said:

    Gosh, Oxford University is terrible. Students are suing over the appalling bad teaching they have to deal with.

    An Oxford graduate is suing the university for £1m claiming the “appallingly bad” and “boring” teaching cost him a first-class degree and prevented him from having a successful career.

    Faiz Siddiqui, who studied modern history at Brasenose College, told the high court he believes he would have had a career as an international commercial lawyer if he had been awarded a first rather than the 2:1 he achieved 16 years ago.

    If he wins, the case could open the floodgates to similar claims from students complaining about inadequate teaching, unsuitable accommodation and poor decisions.


    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/dec/04/graduate-sues-oxford-university-1m-failure-first-faiz-siddiqui?CMP=twt_a-education_b-gdnedu

    Honestly, he'd have been better off going to Trump University than Oxford.

    Do they teach the meaning of the phrase "sour grapes" at Oxford University?
    I'd be surprised if they teach anything at Oxford.
    The rugby club at Pembroke College, Oxford, got caught teaching date rape. Those who sing they'd rather go to Oxford than St John's should remember that.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    This is potentially going to be a very big story:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38201570

    It's slightly bemusing that the government sponsored a report into the future of Network Rail (Shaw Report) in March didn't (I think) recommend this.

    There's also the issue that if this goes ahead, the first crash that happens will automatically be blamed on the changes. Given the unprecedented recent safety record on the nationalised railway, that would be politically troubling.

    I had thought the separation was reasonably sensible. Having one body focusing exclusively on maintenance/repair, while the others get on with running the trains. But what do I know!
  • Well Oxford's defence is interesting, looks like they aren't denying the substantive part

    Oxford University argues that the claim is baseless and should be struck out because of the number of years that have passed since Siddiqui graduated.

    The university admitted it had “difficulties” running the module in the year Siddiqui graduated because half of the teaching staff responsible for Asian history were on sabbatical leave at the same time.

    Not the same thing as admitting a relevant duty of care and breach of it. Nor of course his claim for damages, I don't know how many papers he sat but he would have had to have been very close to a first, plus probably more than 50% of papers being first class.
    Personally I'd downgrade his degree to a Desmond or a Douglas.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699

    Looks like The Daily Mail is unhappy Hofer lost. I reckon had he have won, they would gone with the headliine 'Hurrah for Hofer'

    https://twitter.com/b_judah/status/805472357779468288

    The Daily Mail sticking to its editorial policy of supporting fascism for the last 80 plus years .
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    An Hofer you can refuse?
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,279

    An Hofer you can refuse?

    +1.
  • Another nice little win in Austria.

    It would have been somewhat larger if I hadn't made the mistake of trusting Bob Smithson instead of my own judgement :wink:

    And another Betfair prediction failure - someone must be losing a fortune on that site.

    Surely they can't have got the Italian referendum wrong as well ?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969
    edited December 2016
    ydoethur said:

    Gosh, Oxford University is terrible. Students are suing over the appalling bad teaching they have to deal with.

    An Oxford graduate is suing the university for £1m claiming the “appallingly bad” and “boring” teaching cost him a first-class degree and prevented him from having a successful career.

    Faiz Siddiqui, who studied modern history at Brasenose College, told the high court he believes he would have had a career as an international commercial lawyer if he had been awarded a first rather than the 2:1 he achieved 16 years ago.

    If he wins, the case could open the floodgates to similar claims from students complaining about inadequate teaching, unsuitable accommodation and poor decisions.


    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/dec/04/graduate-sues-oxford-university-1m-failure-first-faiz-siddiqui?CMP=twt_a-education_b-gdnedu

    Honestly, he'd have been better off going to Trump University than Oxford.

    Were you at Cambridge or Hull, The Screaming 'General Melchett' Eagles?
    :lol:

    Years ago, playing Devil's advocate, I did a piece on 'Nuremberg: Victor's Justice' and I cited General Melchett from that episode on the hypocrisy when it comes to wars.

    Captain Darling: So you see, Blackadder, Field Marshall Haig is most anxious to eliminate all these German spies.

    General Melchett: Filthy hun weasels, fighting their dirty underhand war!

    Captain Darling: And fortunately, one of our spies...

    General Melchett: Splendid fellows, brave heroes risking life and limb for Blighty!
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited December 2016

    Another nice little win in Austria.

    It would have been somewhat larger if I hadn't made the mistake of trusting Bob Smithson instead of my own judgement :wink:

    And another Betfair prediction failure - someone must be losing a fortune on that site.

    Surely they can't have got the Italian referendum wrong as well ?

    Which side is favourite on Betfair? I can't access the site at the moment.
  • DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    edited December 2016
    AndyJS said:

    Another nice little win in Austria.

    It would have been somewhat larger if I hadn't made the mistake of trusting Bob Smithson instead of my own judgement :wink:

    And another Betfair prediction failure - someone must be losing a fortune on that site.

    Surely they can't have got the Italian referendum wrong as well ?

    Which side is favourite on Betfair? I can't access the site at the moment.
    NO in Italy is the favourite. It's at 1.46 - 1.47. YES is at 3.1 - 3.15.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,973
    Dromedary said:

    AndyJS said:

    Another nice little win in Austria.

    It would have been somewhat larger if I hadn't made the mistake of trusting Bob Smithson instead of my own judgement :wink:

    And another Betfair prediction failure - someone must be losing a fortune on that site.

    Surely they can't have got the Italian referendum wrong as well ?

    Which side is favourite on Betfair? I can't access the site at the moment.
    NO in Italy is the favourite. It's at 1.46 - 1.47. YES is at 3.1 - 3.15.
    When are we likely to get first "indicators". Lots of people taking about turnout but not sure who low or high turnout favours
  • AndyJS said:

    Another nice little win in Austria.

    It would have been somewhat larger if I hadn't made the mistake of trusting Bob Smithson instead of my own judgement :wink:

    And another Betfair prediction failure - someone must be losing a fortune on that site.

    Surely they can't have got the Italian referendum wrong as well ?

    Which side is favourite on Betfair? I can't access the site at the moment.
    Yes 3.1
    No 1.45
  • Dromedary said:

    AndyJS said:

    Another nice little win in Austria.

    It would have been somewhat larger if I hadn't made the mistake of trusting Bob Smithson instead of my own judgement :wink:

    And another Betfair prediction failure - someone must be losing a fortune on that site.

    Surely they can't have got the Italian referendum wrong as well ?

    Which side is favourite on Betfair? I can't access the site at the moment.
    NO in Italy is the favourite. It's at 1.46 - 1.47. YES is at 3.1 - 3.15.
    When are we likely to get first "indicators". Lots of people taking about turnout but not sure who low or high turnout favours
    Into polling day 20% were undecided.
  • SeanT said:

    Dromedary said:

    AndyJS said:

    Another nice little win in Austria.

    It would have been somewhat larger if I hadn't made the mistake of trusting Bob Smithson instead of my own judgement :wink:

    And another Betfair prediction failure - someone must be losing a fortune on that site.

    Surely they can't have got the Italian referendum wrong as well ?

    Which side is favourite on Betfair? I can't access the site at the moment.
    NO in Italy is the favourite. It's at 1.46 - 1.47. YES is at 3.1 - 3.15.
    When are we likely to get first "indicators". Lots of people taking about turnout but not sure who low or high turnout favours
    Twitter reckons High Turnout favours NO. Not sure why, caveat emptor, etc
    This is a difficult one, since the establishment wants the change and the antiestablishment the status quo...
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038
    RobD said:

    This is potentially going to be a very big story:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38201570

    It's slightly bemusing that the government sponsored a report into the future of Network Rail (Shaw Report) in March didn't (I think) recommend this.

    There's also the issue that if this goes ahead, the first crash that happens will automatically be blamed on the changes. Given the unprecedented recent safety record on the nationalised railway, that would be politically troubling.

    I had thought the separation was reasonably sensible. Having one body focusing exclusively on maintenance/repair, while the others get on with running the trains. But what do I know!
    Surely the best example of a well-run rail network is Switzerland. It runs a vertically-integrated system. Trains run to the top of some mountains.

    Grayling's a 'headbanger', using Ken Clarke's apparent term for rabid right-wing 'colleagues'. I fear the worst. It was Grayling who f****d up prisons so much that to have Gove take over was like a breath of fresh air.

    Ladbroke Grove 1999, Hatfield 2000, Potters Bar 2002 ... here we come again? Hope not.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited December 2016

    AndyJS said:

    Another nice little win in Austria.

    It would have been somewhat larger if I hadn't made the mistake of trusting Bob Smithson instead of my own judgement :wink:

    And another Betfair prediction failure - someone must be losing a fortune on that site.

    Surely they can't have got the Italian referendum wrong as well ?

    Which side is favourite on Betfair? I can't access the site at the moment.
    Yes 3.1
    No 1.45
    Thanks.

    Austrian results page:
    http://wahl16.bmi.gv.at/

    The percentages in Austria before postals are almost the same as the Brexit percentages.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517
    RobD said:

    This is potentially going to be a very big story:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38201570

    It's slightly bemusing that the government sponsored a report into the future of Network Rail (Shaw Report) in March didn't (I think) recommend this.

    There's also the issue that if this goes ahead, the first crash that happens will automatically be blamed on the changes. Given the unprecedented recent safety record on the nationalised railway, that would be politically troubling.

    I had thought the separation was reasonably sensible. Having one body focusing exclusively on maintenance/repair, while the others get on with running the trains. But what do I know!
    The problem is when one side does not communicate properly with the other, and that happens a great deal. Yet the scheme where one operator (I think SWT) and Network Rail co-operated more closely was cancelled early.

    However there are many problems with this new scheme, especially where multiple operators run trains over the same route.
  • RobD said:

    This is potentially going to be a very big story:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38201570

    It's slightly bemusing that the government sponsored a report into the future of Network Rail (Shaw Report) in March didn't (I think) recommend this.

    There's also the issue that if this goes ahead, the first crash that happens will automatically be blamed on the changes. Given the unprecedented recent safety record on the nationalised railway, that would be politically troubling.

    I had thought the separation was reasonably sensible. Having one body focusing exclusively on maintenance/repair, while the others get on with running the trains. But what do I know!
    Surely the best example of a well-run rail network is Switzerland. It runs a vertically-integrated system. Trains run to the top of some mountains.

    Grayling's a 'headbanger', using Ken Clarke's apparent term for rabid right-wing 'colleagues'. I fear the worst. It was Grayling who f****d up prisons so much that to have Gove take over was like a breath of fresh air.

    Ladbroke Grove 1999, Hatfield 2000, Potters Bar 2002 ... here we come again? Hope not.
    Two things going on: separation of track and trains, and private/national track operator.

    It turned out a private National Rail was a bad idea. But that is not the proposal.

    I am however sceptical as to whether anything needs to change (and whether the exceptional reasons on the Cambridge to Oxford line exist elsewhere)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,774
    SeanT said:

    Dromedary said:

    AndyJS said:

    Another nice little win in Austria.

    It would have been somewhat larger if I hadn't made the mistake of trusting Bob Smithson instead of my own judgement :wink:

    And another Betfair prediction failure - someone must be losing a fortune on that site.

    Surely they can't have got the Italian referendum wrong as well ?

    Which side is favourite on Betfair? I can't access the site at the moment.
    NO in Italy is the favourite. It's at 1.46 - 1.47. YES is at 3.1 - 3.15.
    When are we likely to get first "indicators". Lots of people taking about turnout but not sure who low or high turnout favours
    Twitter reckons High Turnout favours NO. Not sure why, caveat emptor, etc
    The polls have shown 10+% leads for No for a week or more. Everyone I know, including the Left wing DP supporters, are voting No.

    Tomorrow Renzi will resign. By this time next week we'll have a new Italian government.

    And almost nothing will have changed. This is not a referendum on pro-EU vs anti-EU, or anything like that. Is is a referendum on whether to reform the Italian houses of parliament to make them less liable to gridlock and to increase the role of the executive.

    I think a fair number of Grillo supporters will vote Yes, and a lot of Renzi supporters No. I don't think any of us should read too much into this vote.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    AndyJS said:

    AndyJS said:

    Another nice little win in Austria.

    It would have been somewhat larger if I hadn't made the mistake of trusting Bob Smithson instead of my own judgement :wink:

    And another Betfair prediction failure - someone must be losing a fortune on that site.

    Surely they can't have got the Italian referendum wrong as well ?

    Which side is favourite on Betfair? I can't access the site at the moment.
    Yes 3.1
    No 1.45
    Thanks.

    Austrian results page:
    http://wahl16.bmi.gv.at/

    The percentages in Austria before postals are almost the same as the Brexit percentages.
    Intrigued to see that the Tirol and Vorarlberg both voted for the left wing candidate - wouldn't have guessed that in such a close election. Is that because of the large university population or is there something else in the region's politics?
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387
    edited December 2016
    RE: Sleaford, Lib Dems to beat Labour at Evens seems good value, but not my area (only nominal sums). This is Ladbrokes.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165
    RobD said:

    This is potentially going to be a very big story:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38201570

    It's slightly bemusing that the government sponsored a report into the future of Network Rail (Shaw Report) in March didn't (I think) recommend this.

    There's also the issue that if this goes ahead, the first crash that happens will automatically be blamed on the changes. Given the unprecedented recent safety record on the nationalised railway, that would be politically troubling.

    I had thought the separation was reasonably sensible. Having one body focusing exclusively on maintenance/repair, while the others get on with running the trains. But what do I know!
    I'm on the fringe of the industry, but I get the sense that Network Rail aren't very good at standing up to the TOCs and the DfT. The politicians are desperate for trains to be running all of the time. In a few weeks time we'll get the annual news story of people having to use rail replacement bus services due to engineering possessions.

    I don't know whether or not it will improve things, but if the TOCs had more skin in the game when it comes to maintaining the network, perhaps they'd be less likely to demand that NR keep the railway open all of the time and instead helped NR keep on top of the maintenance.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,774

    Another nice little win in Austria.

    It would have been somewhat larger if I hadn't made the mistake of trusting Bob Smithson instead of my own judgement :wink:

    And another Betfair prediction failure - someone must be losing a fortune on that site.

    Surely they can't have got the Italian referendum wrong as well ?

    The FPO has been rising in the national opinion polls!
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited December 2016
    Another quick map I made, this time by province, of the 7pm turnout in Italy. Red->Blue, High->Low
    https://s13.postimg.org/n0mtihgwn/Map_of_Italy_blankt7.png

    Highest Vicenza 67.86%
    Lowest Crotone 39.25%
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,979

    SeanT said:

    Dromedary said:

    AndyJS said:

    Another nice little win in Austria.

    It would have been somewhat larger if I hadn't made the mistake of trusting Bob Smithson instead of my own judgement :wink:

    And another Betfair prediction failure - someone must be losing a fortune on that site.

    Surely they can't have got the Italian referendum wrong as well ?

    Which side is favourite on Betfair? I can't access the site at the moment.
    NO in Italy is the favourite. It's at 1.46 - 1.47. YES is at 3.1 - 3.15.
    When are we likely to get first "indicators". Lots of people taking about turnout but not sure who low or high turnout favours
    Twitter reckons High Turnout favours NO. Not sure why, caveat emptor, etc
    This is a difficult one, since the establishment wants the change and the antiestablishment the status quo...
    On that basis, YES should win.
  • This must be a strange experience for Nick Clegg
    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/trust-politicians-all-time-low-survey-reveals-1594788

    While Leave voters were apparently turned off by Boris Johnson because they "didn't believe what he was saying", Nick Clegg was deemed particularly trustworthy by Remain voters.

    One said: "I wish we'd heard more from Nick Clegg."
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517
    edited December 2016

    RobD said:

    This is potentially going to be a very big story:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38201570

    It's slightly bemusing that the government sponsored a report into the future of Network Rail (Shaw Report) in March didn't (I think) recommend this.

    There's also the issue that if this goes ahead, the first crash that happens will automatically be blamed on the changes. Given the unprecedented recent safety record on the nationalised railway, that would be politically troubling.

    I had thought the separation was reasonably sensible. Having one body focusing exclusively on maintenance/repair, while the others get on with running the trains. But what do I know!
    Surely the best example of a well-run rail network is Switzerland. It runs a vertically-integrated system. Trains run to the top of some mountains.

    Grayling's a 'headbanger', using Ken Clarke's apparent term for rabid right-wing 'colleagues'. I fear the worst. It was Grayling who f****d up prisons so much that to have Gove take over was like a breath of fresh air.

    Ladbroke Grove 1999, Hatfield 2000, Potters Bar 2002 ... here we come again? Hope not.
    TBF, that run of incidents could be taken back to well before Railtrack was created. As an example, AFAICR the cause of Ladbroke Grove went back to BR days.

    And Grayrigg, which could have been much, much worse than the one fatality, was down to NR's incompetence. Yet for some reason the left didn't make much less noise about it ...

    Having said that, NR's very good at two of their tasks: maintenance and renewal. Where they're failing massively is in the third, enhancements.

    Edit: edited stupidity ... )
  • PAWPAW Posts: 1,074
    The TOCs might have reason to delay/not carry out safety improvements if they impact on the bottom line or make their stats look bad.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    If I were an Italian today, I would also vote No. It has nothing to do with the EU.
  • Had a check. The pollsters in Italy assumed a turnout of 54-58%, i.e. they got that pretty much right.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165

    Having said that, NR's very good at two of their tasks: maintenance and renewal. Where they're failing massively is in the third, enhancements.

    I'm not sure that's the case on South East Route (formally Kent and Sussex). Most of the focus is on the GTR industrial relations issue, but the network is creaking. The plan to run 24 trains per hour through the Thameslink core is, put it politely, optimistic.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,774
    SeanT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    Dromedary said:

    AndyJS said:

    Another nice little win in Austria.

    It would have been somewhat larger if I hadn't made the mistake of trusting Bob Smithson instead of my own judgement :wink:

    And another Betfair prediction failure - someone must be losing a fortune on that site.

    Surely they can't have got the Italian referendum wrong as well ?

    Which side is favourite on Betfair? I can't access the site at the moment.
    NO in Italy is the favourite. It's at 1.46 - 1.47. YES is at 3.1 - 3.15.
    When are we likely to get first "indicators". Lots of people taking about turnout but not sure who low or high turnout favours
    Twitter reckons High Turnout favours NO. Not sure why, caveat emptor, etc
    The polls have shown 10+% leads for No for a week or more. Everyone I know, including the Left wing DP supporters, are voting No.

    Tomorrow Renzi will resign. By this time next week we'll have a new Italian government.

    And almost nothing will have changed. This is not a referendum on pro-EU vs anti-EU, or anything like that. Is is a referendum on whether to reform the Italian houses of parliament to make them less liable to gridlock and to increase the role of the executive.

    I think a fair number of Grillo supporters will vote Yes, and a lot of Renzi supporters No. I don't think any of us should read too much into this vote.
    If NO wins it does, however, mean Italy is basically unreformable and thus makes Quitaly (copyright: BBC) from the euro much more likely in the medium term.

    So the vote is not entirely trivial
    I actually suspect a Yes makes Exit more likely in the near (sub two years) time frame. Why? Because post a Yes, if if M5S won in March 2018, it would actually have the power to move Italy towards leaving the Euro.

    If this is a No, and M5S wins, then it would have little power, be at the mercy of events, etc., etc. (Worth noting M5S has lost 13 of its 109 MPs through defections to other parties since they were elected in 2014...)

    Longer term, you may well be right.
  • DixieDixie Posts: 1,221

    Another quick map I made, this time by province, of the 7pm turnout in Italy. Red->Blue, High->Low
    https://s13.postimg.org/n0mtihgwn/Map_of_Italy_blankt7.png

    Highest Vicenza 67.86%
    Lowest Crotone 39.25%

    great job
  • PaulyPauly Posts: 897

    This is potentially going to be a very big story:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38201570

    It's slightly bemusing that the government sponsored a report into the future of Network Rail (Shaw Report) in March didn't (I think) recommend this.

    There's also the issue that if this goes ahead, the first crash that happens will automatically be blamed on the changes. Given the unprecedented recent safety record on the nationalised railway, that would be politically troubling.

    Without John Prescott as Transport Secretary there won't be the ridiculous backlash leading to nationalisation. Imagine if the same thing happened every time a plane falls out of the sky.
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819
    SeanT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    Dromedary said:

    AndyJS said:

    Another nice little win in Austria.

    It would have been somewhat larger if I hadn't made the mistake of trusting Bob Smithson instead of my own judgement :wink:

    And another Betfair prediction failure - someone must be losing a fortune on that site.

    Surely they can't have got the Italian referendum wrong as well ?

    Which side is favourite on Betfair? I can't access the site at the moment.
    NO in Italy is the favourite. It's at 1.46 - 1.47. YES is at 3.1 - 3.15.
    When are we likely to get first "indicators". Lots of people taking about turnout but not sure who low or high turnout favours
    Twitter reckons High Turnout favours NO. Not sure why, caveat emptor, etc
    The polls have shown 10+% leads for No for a week or more. Everyone I know, including the Left wing DP supporters, are voting No.

    Tomorrow Renzi will resign. By this time next week we'll have a new Italian government.

    And almost nothing will have changed. This is not a referendum on pro-EU vs anti-EU, or anything like that. Is is a referendum on whether to reform the Italian houses of parliament to make them less liable to gridlock and to increase the role of the executive.

    I think a fair number of Grillo supporters will vote Yes, and a lot of Renzi supporters No. I don't think any of us should read too much into this vote.
    If NO wins it does, however, mean Italy is basically unreformable and thus makes Quitaly (copyright: BBC) from the euro much more likely in the medium term.

    So the vote is not entirely trivial
    I'm glad Quitaly is catching on - endless -exit spin-offs was getting irritating (Scexit, Frexit, Truxit etc).

    It does seem like the Italian vote has been bunged in with the rest of the populist movement tests for the sake of a good story, when the actual vote has little to do with it - would be like attributing the AV referendum loss to a populist backlash.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352

    Had a check. The pollsters in Italy assumed a turnout of 54-58%, i.e. they got that pretty much right.

    ...voting hasn't finished. 11pm.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    We're not allowed to use the only word appropriate for that on here as I understand it.

    I shall therefore content myself with saying he is a stunt performed by the Greek god of sex.
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819
    Does the fact that VdB exceeded polls to win a majority, and that the Lib Dems exceeded polls to steal the seat from Zac, mean that it is now liberal non-populists that are the silent majority? Can we claim that mantle now?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,545
    I suspect at least some Austrians voted against Hofer so they don't have to listen to foreigners reminding them which country Hitler came from.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    I'd have definitely voted "Yes" in the Italian referendum, when you get past the wordiness of the question basically he is saying he wants to streamline Government.
    My money is on "No" however !
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited December 2016
    UK 2022 after Jezza wins GE....

    Venezuela issues new banknotes after inflation

    Venezuela is issuing new higher-value notes to help deal with some of the practical problems of soaring inflation. A backpack full of cash is often required to pay bills at a restaurant or supermarket.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38201575
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,401
    It is good to see so many PBers happy in the victory of a greeny - red lefty. Now you've arrived, please stay.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    SeanT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    Dromedary said:

    AndyJS said:

    Another nice little win in Austria.

    It would have been somewhat larger if I hadn't made the mistake of trusting Bob Smithson instead of my own judgement :wink:

    And another Betfair prediction failure - someone must be losing a fortune on that site.

    Surely they can't have got the Italian referendum wrong as well ?

    Which side is favourite on Betfair? I can't access the site at the moment.
    NO in Italy is the favourite. It's at 1.46 - 1.47. YES is at 3.1 - 3.15.
    When are we likely to get first "indicators". Lots of people taking about turnout but not sure who low or high turnout favours
    Twitter reckons High Turnout favours NO. Not sure why, caveat emptor, etc
    The polls have shown 10+% leads for No for a week or more. Everyone I know, including the Left wing DP supporters, are voting No.

    Tomorrow Renzi will resign. By this time next week we'll have a new Italian government.

    And almost nothing will have changed. This is not a referendum on pro-EU vs anti-EU, or anything like that. Is is a referendum on whether to reform the Italian houses of parliament to make them less liable to gridlock and to increase the role of the executive.

    I think a fair number of Grillo supporters will vote Yes, and a lot of Renzi supporters No. I don't think any of us should read too much into this vote.
    If NO wins it does, however, mean Italy is basically unreformable and thus makes Quitaly (copyright: BBC) from the euro much more likely in the medium term.

    So the vote is not entirely trivial
    I'm glad Quitaly is catching on - endless -exit spin-offs was getting irritating (Scexit, Frexit, Truxit etc).

    It does seem like the Italian vote has been bunged in with the rest of the populist movement tests for the sake of a good story, when the actual vote has little to do with it - would be like attributing the AV referendum loss to a populist backlash.
    EU revoir is better than Frexit.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    SeanT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    Dromedary said:

    AndyJS said:

    Another nice little win in Austria.

    It would have been somewhat larger if I hadn't made the mistake of trusting Bob Smithson instead of my own judgement :wink:

    And another Betfair prediction failure - someone must be losing a fortune on that site.

    Surely they can't have got the Italian referendum wrong as well ?

    Which side is favourite on Betfair? I can't access the site at the moment.
    NO in Italy is the favourite. It's at 1.46 - 1.47. YES is at 3.1 - 3.15.
    When are we likely to get first "indicators". Lots of people taking about turnout but not sure who low or high turnout favours
    Twitter reckons High Turnout favours NO. Not sure why, caveat emptor, etc
    The polls have shown 10+% leads for No for a week or more. Everyone I know, including the Left wing DP supporters, are voting No.

    Tomorrow Renzi will resign. By this time next week we'll have a new Italian government.

    And almost nothing will have changed. This is not a referendum on pro-EU vs anti-EU, or anything like that. Is is a referendum on whether to reform the Italian houses of parliament to make them less liable to gridlock and to increase the role of the executive.

    I think a fair number of Grillo supporters will vote Yes, and a lot of Renzi supporters No. I don't think any of us should read too much into this vote.
    If NO wins it does, however, mean Italy is basically unreformable and thus makes Quitaly (copyright: BBC) from the euro much more likely in the medium term.

    So the vote is not entirely trivial
    I'm glad Quitaly is catching on - endless -exit spin-offs was getting irritating (Scexit, Frexit, Truxit etc).

    It does seem like the Italian vote has been bunged in with the rest of the populist movement tests for the sake of a good story, when the actual vote has little to do with it - would be like attributing the AV referendum loss to a populist backlash.
    Where the euro is concerned, Italy leaving is Fuxit surely?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    FF43 said:

    I suspect at least some Austrians voted against Hofer so they don't have to listen to foreigners reminding them which country Hitler came from.

    Hitler never won an election in Austria. He took power following a coup by Artur Seyss-Inquart (the second Nazi coup in Austria after one in 1934 that was thwarted by Schuschnigg with the help of Mussolini, albeit not before Chancellor Dolfuss had been killed).

    Not that he ever actually won one in Germany either, although his party topped the poll in a couple of inconclusive elections. The closest he came was second to Hindenburg in 1932.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    UK 2022 after Jezza wins GE....

    Venezuela issues new banknotes after inflation

    Venezuela is issuing new higher-value notes to help deal with some of the practical problems of soaring inflation. A backpack full of cash is often required to pay bills at a restaurant or supermarket.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38201575

    Right wing Indian government demonetises Rs 500 and 1000 to "punish" black money holders" but promptly issued Rs 2000 notes ! Country in total chaos.
  • It is good to see so many PBers happy in the victory of a greeny - red lefty. Now you've arrived, please stay.

    You do have to wonder if Trump winning the Presidential election has had a sobering attitude in Europe and that the move to the far right may be checked
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    chestnut said:

    SeanT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    Dromedary said:

    AndyJS said:

    Another nice little win in Austria.

    It would have been somewhat larger if I hadn't made the mistake of trusting Bob Smithson instead of my own judgement :wink:

    And another Betfair prediction failure - someone must be losing a fortune on that site.

    Surely they can't have got the Italian referendum wrong as well ?

    Which side is favourite on Betfair? I can't access the site at the moment.
    NO in Italy is the favourite. It's at 1.46 - 1.47. YES is at 3.1 - 3.15.
    When are we likely to get first "indicators". Lots of people taking about turnout but not sure who low or high turnout favours
    Twitter reckons High Turnout favours NO. Not sure why, caveat emptor, etc
    The polls have shown 10+% leads for No for a week or more. Everyone I know, including the Left wing DP supporters, are voting No.

    Tomorrow Renzi will resign. By this time next week we'll have a new Italian government.

    And almost nothing will have changed. This is not a referendum on pro-EU vs anti-EU, or anything like that. Is is a referendum on whether to reform the Italian houses of parliament to make them less liable to gridlock and to increase the role of the executive.

    I think a fair number of Grillo supporters will vote Yes, and a lot of Renzi supporters No. I don't think any of us should read too much into this vote.
    If NO wins it does, however, mean Italy is basically unreformable and thus makes Quitaly (copyright: BBC) from the euro much more likely in the medium term.

    So the vote is not entirely trivial
    I'm glad Quitaly is catching on - endless -exit spin-offs was getting irritating (Scexit, Frexit, Truxit etc).

    It does seem like the Italian vote has been bunged in with the rest of the populist movement tests for the sake of a good story, when the actual vote has little to do with it - would be like attributing the AV referendum loss to a populist backlash.
    Where the euro is concerned, Italy leaving is Fuxit surely?
    Who said Italy was leaving ?

  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    ydoethur said:

    We're not allowed to use the only word appropriate for that on here as I understand it.

    I shall therefore content myself with saying he is a stunt performed by the Greek god of sex.
    I would have used the word reserved for an issue of such sex.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    surbiton said:

    UK 2022 after Jezza wins GE....

    Venezuela issues new banknotes after inflation

    Venezuela is issuing new higher-value notes to help deal with some of the practical problems of soaring inflation. A backpack full of cash is often required to pay bills at a restaurant or supermarket.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38201575

    Right wing Indian government demonetises Rs 500 and 1000 to "punish" black money holders" but promptly issued Rs 2000 notes ! Country in total chaos.
    Generous of them to show solidarity with their fellow Anglophone nations.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Dixie said:

    Another quick map I made, this time by province, of the 7pm turnout in Italy. Red->Blue, High->Low
    https://s13.postimg.org/n0mtihgwn/Map_of_Italy_blankt7.png

    Highest Vicenza 67.86%
    Lowest Crotone 39.25%

    great job
    So, YES is winning !
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/805500476695441408

    That is just so out of order.
    Not allowed to say the truth out loud even though it's harsh?
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819
    Jonathan said:

    SeanT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    Dromedary said:

    AndyJS said:

    Another nice little win in Austria.

    It would have been somewhat larger if I hadn't made the mistake of trusting Bob Smithson instead of my own judgement :wink:

    And another Betfair prediction failure - someone must be losing a fortune on that site.

    Surely they can't have got the Italian referendum wrong as well ?

    Which side is favourite on Betfair? I can't access the site at the moment.
    NO in Italy is the favourite. It's at 1.46 - 1.47. YES is at 3.1 - 3.15.
    When are we likely to get first "indicators". Lots of people taking about turnout but not sure who low or high turnout favours
    Twitter reckons High Turnout favours NO. Not sure why, caveat emptor, etc
    The polls have shown 10+% leads for No for a week or more. Everyone I know, including the Left wing DP supporters, are voting No.

    Tomorrow Renzi will resign. By this time next week we'll have a new Italian government.

    And almost nothing will have changed. This is not a referendum on pro-EU vs anti-EU, or anything like that. Is is a referendum on whether to reform the Italian houses of parliament to make them less liable to gridlock and to increase the role of the executive.

    I think a fair number of Grillo supporters will vote Yes, and a lot of Renzi supporters No. I don't think any of us should read too much into this vote.
    If NO wins it does, however, mean Italy is basically unreformable and thus makes Quitaly (copyright: BBC) from the euro much more likely in the medium term.

    So the vote is not entirely trivial
    I'm glad Quitaly is catching on - endless -exit spin-offs was getting irritating (Scexit, Frexit, Truxit etc).

    It does seem like the Italian vote has been bunged in with the rest of the populist movement tests for the sake of a good story, when the actual vote has little to do with it - would be like attributing the AV referendum loss to a populist backlash.
    EU revoir is better than Frexit.
    I think I saw Fruck Off somewhere as an alternative too.
  • Had a check. The pollsters in Italy assumed a turnout of 54-58%, i.e. they got that pretty much right.

    ...voting hasn't finished. 11pm.
    It's not going to rise much above the central forecast.
This discussion has been closed.