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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Young Prezza to save old Jezza? the task facing Corbyn’s new s

SystemSystem Posts: 11,005
edited December 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Young Prezza to save old Jezza? the task facing Corbyn’s new speechwriter.

“I’m not a PR man. I’m a campaigner,” so says Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn’s new speechwriter who began work last week.

Read the full story here


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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    First!
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,011
    Son of Straw, son of Prezza, son of Blair, son of Kinnock, son of Benn... What is it about nepotism in the Labour party?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,899
    "He sees round corners"

    Is he a periscope ?
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,606
    Don's back of the Jez train!
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,382
    edited December 2016
    About 10th.

    Coming late to it, but I see that the Ronnie Scott's "let us insult half the population" editorial is online:

    https://www.ronniescotts.co.uk/static/download/latest-brochure.pdf

    And that their phone number is 020 7439 0747.

    Having been to RS's since the 80s, I think it is time for a phone call.
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    Son of Straw, son of Prezza, son of Blair, son of Kinnock, son of Benn... What is it about nepotism in the Labour party?

    Perhaps their daughters have more sense...

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,899
    {From Labour List}
    "Voters are increasingly frustrated at Theresa May’s failure to spell out what lies beyond her second-most famous soundbite."

    The voters are giving the Tories the benefit of the doubt at the moment (Sleaford is much much more typical than Richmond wrt English demographics).
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    MattW said:

    About 10th.

    Coming late to it, but I see that the Ronnie Scott's "let us insult half the population" editorial is online:

    https://www.ronniescotts.co.uk/static/download/latest-brochure.pdf

    And that their phone number is 020 7439 0747.

    Having been to RS's since the 80s, I think it is time for a phone call.

    Do you intend to harangue them into recantation or merely silence?
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    MattW said:

    About 10th.

    Coming late to it, but I see that the Ronnie Scott's "let us insult half the population" editorial is online:

    https://www.ronniescotts.co.uk/static/download/latest-brochure.pdf

    And that their phone number is 020 7439 0747.

    Having been to RS's since the 80s, I think it is time for a phone call.

    what is it with all these jazzy snowflakes?

    (bollocks to ronnie scott's mind. looks far too pricey. I used to get mine at the Leeds Irish centre)
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    You cannot polish a turd. Fortunately for the Tories , Corbyn will never accept that he is not up to it and that his policies stink. He has waited 40 yrs to get this chance at the leadership and it doesn't matter what young Prezza writes, people already KNOW Corbyn, and he is finished as leader even if he remains in place.
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    Misses the point. Labour has collectively decided to leave the mainstream, this appointment is about appearance not reality.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited December 2016

    what is it with all these jazzy snowflakes?

    It's utterly bizarre. Why are some Leavers so touchy? They won, for heaven's sake!

    It's not as though businesses haven't been making political comments about the EU for years - mostly bitching about EU regulations. Presumably those complaining about Ronnie Scott's were equally indignant about that. Or pehaps not.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,011

    what is it with all these jazzy snowflakes?

    It's utterly bizarre. Why are some Leavers so touchy? They won, for heaven's sake!
    They won the vote but not the argument, hence the touchiness.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,899
    Here we are, modern light art.

    https://twitter.com/DavidPrescott/status/804399444867289088

    Precisely the sort of thing that'll help Labour get back in touch with its traditional voters.
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    midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112

    what is it with all these jazzy snowflakes?

    It's utterly bizarre. Why are some Leavers so touchy? They won, for heaven's sake!

    It's not as though businesses haven't been making political comments about the EU for years - mostly bitching about EU regulations. Presumably those complaining about Ronnie Scott's were equally indignant about that. Or pehaps not.
    Imagine how much worse it must feel to be unwanted in your light entertainment venue of choice than in the country where you have come to live and work. Truly heartrending.
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    Son of Straw, son of Prezza, son of Blair, son of Kinnock, son of Benn... What is it about nepotism in the Labour party?

    It's the only way they'll get a decent wage.. No-one else will pay them one.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095

    Son of Straw, son of Prezza, son of Blair, son of Kinnock, son of Benn... What is it about nepotism in the Labour party?

    It's the only way they'll get a decent wage.. No-one else will pay them one.
    Apart from the BBC, it seems....
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,899
    edited December 2016

    Son of Straw, son of Prezza, son of Blair, son of Kinnock, son of Benn... What is it about nepotism in the Labour party?

    It's the only way they'll get a decent wage.. No-one else will pay them one.
    Apart from the BBC, it seems....
    Alot of his clients for his media training days seem to be third/charity or public sector.

    Shocker.
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    It will make absolutely no difference at all. You cannot polish a turd.
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    I definitely need to visit Ronnie Scott's jazz club soon, haven't been in over a decade, sounds like my kinda place and I hate jazz.
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    Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414

    Son of Straw, son of Prezza, son of Blair, son of Kinnock, son of Benn... What is it about nepotism in the Labour party?

    Perhaps their daughters have more sense...

    Emily Benn (Tony's granddaughter) was a Labour parliamentary candidate!
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,011

    I definitely need to visit Ronnie Scott's jazz club soon, haven't been in over a decade, sounds like my kinda place and I hate jazz.

    You'll rarely find a more on topic obscure video than this - John Prescott and Ken Clarke interviewed at Ronnie Scott's.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQQNaXnic2o
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    ICM poll

    Conservatives: 41% (down 3 points from ICM two weeks ago)

    Labour: 27% (down 1)

    Ukip: 14% (up 2)

    Lib Dems: 9% (up 2)

    Greens: 3% (down 1)

    Conservative lead: 14 points (down 2)

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2016/dec/12/philip-hammond-treasury-social-care-considering-lettting-councils-raise-council-tax-to-fund-social-care-politics-live?page=with:block-584ea5cae4b04a74f2782be4#block-584ea5cae4b04a74f2782be4
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    isamisam Posts: 40,894
    “I’m not a PR man. I’m a campaigner,”

    Anyone else saying that in David Ginola's voice?

    "I'm a footballer, not a movie star.."
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,578

    ICM poll

    Conservatives: 41% (down 3 points from ICM two weeks ago)

    Labour: 27% (down 1)

    Ukip: 14% (up 2)

    Lib Dems: 9% (up 2)

    Greens: 3% (down 1)

    Conservative lead: 14 points (down 2)

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2016/dec/12/philip-hammond-treasury-social-care-considering-lettting-councils-raise-council-tax-to-fund-social-care-politics-live?page=with:block-584ea5cae4b04a74f2782be4#block-584ea5cae4b04a74f2782be4

    Only 14 points. Sadly, that can be regarded as a positive result for Labour.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    edited December 2016
    I rarely FPT myself - but frankly, I've had a total skinful of liberal men on PB and elsewhere handwaving waving the cultural behaviour that's been imported by no knowledge nitwits, virtue signalling to stroke their own egos. You'd never accept this impinging on your daily lives. Ever. Oh, and have a burkah - black or maybe sky blue.

    TBH, my entire experience of Morocco was hmm bar buying a nice camel leather handbag.

    I'm a tough bird, and the misogyny/grabby behaviour was appalling. My handful of female fellow Landies were left so intimidated that they gave me shopping lists as they couldn't cope with the local men.

    I was leered at/asked for sex/grabbed walking down the street for merely being white. I was covered head to foot and followed everywhere by creepy men/my chest commented on/assumed to be a prostitute.

    I was on rural Morocco/Algerian border - any liberal inclined man in the UK has NO IDEA about the behaviour of men in these areas and what Europe has invited in. I was one of a party of 12 Land Rover/Toyota drivers who were exploring a new Paris/Dhaka rally parallel route. We spent 3 weeks driving 14hrs a day across the Sahara/establishing rest points/mechanics on the way - so no shrinking violets.

    One of our convoy caught fire and they ended up in my Toyota as I was solo. We seriously considered pushing their broke Landy over the edge of a cliff in the Atlas mountains, as getting her down seemed impossible/insurance was easier. After much discussion, we decided to take her back down thousands of feet by roping her between mine and another.

    This isn't tourist stuff - it's alternative life - anyone with a spec of knowledge of this culture has held up their hands and said WTF?
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    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    edited December 2016

    ICM poll

    Conservatives: 41% (down 3 points from ICM two weeks ago)
    Labour: 27% (down 1)
    Ukip: 14% (up 2)
    Lib Dems: 9% (up 2)
    Greens: 3% (down 1)

    Conservative lead: 14 points (down 2)

    Justin was right, the 16 point lead in the last ICM was clearly a rogue. Extrapolating from this Jezza will have closed the gap by the end of March, drawing to a 20-20 tie. UKIP will be on 28% by then but under FPTP they are no threat to Labour.
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    ICM poll

    Conservatives: 41% (down 3 points from ICM two weeks ago)
    Labour: 27% (down 1)
    Ukip: 14% (up 2)
    Lib Dems: 9% (up 2)
    Greens: 3% (down 1)

    Conservative lead: 14 points (down 2)

    Justin was right, the 16 point lead in the last ICM was clearly a rogue. Extrapolating from this Jezza will have closed the gap by the end of March, drawing to a 20-20 tie. UKIP will be on 28% by then but under FPTP they are no threat to Labour.
    Diane Abbot was right within the next 12 months and Lab and the Tories are going to be neck and neck in the polls.
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    Good afternoon, everyone.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,011

    ICM poll

    Conservatives: 41% (down 3 points from ICM two weeks ago)
    Labour: 27% (down 1)
    Ukip: 14% (up 2)
    Lib Dems: 9% (up 2)
    Greens: 3% (down 1)

    Conservative lead: 14 points (down 2)

    Justin was right, the 16 point lead in the last ICM was clearly a rogue. Extrapolating from this Jezza will have closed the gap by the end of March, drawing to a 20-20 tie. UKIP will be on 28% by then but under FPTP they are no threat to Labour.
    The Tory graph could look like this over the next few years if Brexit goes sour. The Labour one won't. There will be a big vacuum in the soft centre for the Lib Dems to exploit.

    image
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,215
    PlatoSaid said:

    I rarely FPT myself - but frankly, I've had a total skinful of liberal men on PB and elsewhere handwaving waving the cultural behaviour that's been imported by no knowledge nitwits, virtue signalling to stroke their own egos. You'd never accept this impinging on your daily lives. Ever. Oh, and have a burkah - black or maybe sky blue.

    TBH, my entire experience of Morocco was hmm bar buying a nice camel leather handbag.

    I'm a tough bird, and the misogyny/grabby behaviour was appalling. My handful of female fellow Landies were left so intimidated that they gave me shopping lists as they couldn't cope with the local men.

    I was leered at/asked for sex/grabbed walking down the street for merely being white. I was covered head to foot and followed everywhere by creepy men/my chest commented on/assumed to be a prostitute.

    I was on rural Morocco/Algerian border - any liberal inclined man in the UK has NO IDEA about the behaviour of men in these areas and what Europe has invited in. I was one of a party of 12 Land Rover/Toyota drivers who were exploring a new Paris/Dhaka rally parallel route. We spent 3 weeks driving 14hrs a day across the Sahara/establishing rest points/mechanics on the way - so no shrinking violets.

    One of our convoy caught fire and they ended up in my Toyota as I was solo. We seriously considered pushing their broke Landy over the edge of a cliff in the Atlas mountains, as getting her down seemed impossible/insurance was easier. After much discussion, we decided to take her back down thousands of feet by roping her between mine and another.

    This isn't tourist stuff - it's alternative life - anyone with a spec of knowledge of this culture has held up their hands and said WTF?

    That doesn't sound great, at all. Although respect for the adventure; I drove the Tiz'n Test many years ago, and that was adventure enough.


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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Justin was right, the 16 point lead in the last ICM was clearly a rogue.

    @britainelects: The past eight voting intention surveys have all seen Tory leads of twelve points or more.
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    ICM poll

    Conservatives: 41% (down 3 points from ICM two weeks ago)
    Labour: 27% (down 1)
    Ukip: 14% (up 2)
    Lib Dems: 9% (up 2)
    Greens: 3% (down 1)

    Conservative lead: 14 points (down 2)

    Justin was right, the 16 point lead in the last ICM was clearly a rogue. Extrapolating from this Jezza will have closed the gap by the end of March, drawing to a 20-20 tie. UKIP will be on 28% by then but under FPTP they are no threat to Labour.
    The Tory graph could look like this over the next few years if Brexit goes sour. The Labour one won't. There will be a big vacuum in the soft centre for the Lib Dems to exploit.

    image
    I am bullish on Lib Dem poll ratings, regardless of whether Brexit is sweet or sour.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,606

    ICM poll

    Conservatives: 41% (down 3 points from ICM two weeks ago)
    Labour: 27% (down 1)
    Ukip: 14% (up 2)
    Lib Dems: 9% (up 2)
    Greens: 3% (down 1)

    Conservative lead: 14 points (down 2)

    Justin was right, the 16 point lead in the last ICM was clearly a rogue. Extrapolating from this Jezza will have closed the gap by the end of March, drawing to a 20-20 tie. UKIP will be on 28% by then but under FPTP they are no threat to Labour.
    The Tory graph could look like this over the next few years if Brexit goes sour. The Labour one won't. There will be a big vacuum in the soft centre for the Lib Dems to exploit.

    image
    Not really, the one thing I've learned in my time is that the Tories will always adapt and do whatever it takes to win. Now that the centre ground has moved to the right, the Tories have a more right wing leader. If it moves back to the centre then I expect people like Kwasi Kwarteng will get a good look.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    PlatoSaid said:

    I rarely FPT myself - but frankly, I've had a total skinful of liberal men on PB and elsewhere handwaving waving the cultural behaviour that's been imported by no knowledge nitwits, virtue signalling to stroke their own egos. You'd never accept this impinging on your daily lives. Ever. Oh, and have a burkah - black or maybe sky blue.

    TBH, my entire experience of Morocco was hmm bar buying a nice camel leather handbag.

    I'm a tough bird, and the misogyny/grabby behaviour was appalling. My handful of female fellow Landies were left so intimidated that they gave me shopping lists as they couldn't cope with the local men.

    I was leered at/asked for sex/grabbed walking down the street for merely being white. I was covered head to foot and followed everywhere by creepy men/my chest commented on/assumed to be a prostitute.

    I was on rural Morocco/Algerian border - any liberal inclined man in the UK has NO IDEA about the behaviour of men in these areas and what Europe has invited in. I was one of a party of 12 Land Rover/Toyota drivers who were exploring a new Paris/Dhaka rally parallel route. We spent 3 weeks driving 14hrs a day across the Sahara/establishing rest points/mechanics on the way - so no shrinking violets.

    One of our convoy caught fire and they ended up in my Toyota as I was solo. We seriously considered pushing their broke Landy over the edge of a cliff in the Atlas mountains, as getting her down seemed impossible/insurance was easier. After much discussion, we decided to take her back down thousands of feet by roping her between mine and another.

    This isn't tourist stuff - it's alternative life - anyone with a spec of knowledge of this culture has held up their hands and said WTF?

    I am sure that it was just locker room behaviour, nothing wrong with a little pussy grabbing is there?
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    Scott_P said:

    Justin was right, the 16 point lead in the last ICM was clearly a rogue.

    @britainelects: The past eight voting intention surveys have all seen Tory leads of twelve points or more.
    What a great job our Brexit Cabinet must be doing eh Scott?
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,011
    MaxPB said:

    ICM poll

    Conservatives: 41% (down 3 points from ICM two weeks ago)
    Labour: 27% (down 1)
    Ukip: 14% (up 2)
    Lib Dems: 9% (up 2)
    Greens: 3% (down 1)

    Conservative lead: 14 points (down 2)

    Justin was right, the 16 point lead in the last ICM was clearly a rogue. Extrapolating from this Jezza will have closed the gap by the end of March, drawing to a 20-20 tie. UKIP will be on 28% by then but under FPTP they are no threat to Labour.
    The Tory graph could look like this over the next few years if Brexit goes sour. The Labour one won't. There will be a big vacuum in the soft centre for the Lib Dems to exploit.

    image
    Not really, the one thing I've learned in my time is that the Tories will always adapt and do whatever it takes to win. Now that the centre ground has moved to the right, the Tories have a more right wing leader. If it moves back to the centre then I expect people like Kwasi Kwarteng will get a good look.
    Always? Sometimes it takes them a very, very long time to adjust. Following the period shown in that graph they chose Hague and then IDS to be leader.

    If, in my thesis, today is 1992 for the Conservatives, it could be 2030 before they get back on track after it goes south.
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    Labour continue to drift down in the polls. Given the shambolic display put on by the Government, the irrelevance of the Lib Dems and Greens and the manic stupidity of UKIP, this is really quite a feat. One speechwriter is not going to make a difference.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    ICM poll

    Conservatives: 41% (down 3 points from ICM two weeks ago)

    Labour: 27% (down 1)

    Ukip: 14% (up 2)

    Lib Dems: 9% (up 2)

    Greens: 3% (down 1)

    Conservative lead: 14 points (down 2)

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2016/dec/12/philip-hammond-treasury-social-care-considering-lettting-councils-raise-council-tax-to-fund-social-care-politics-live?page=with:block-584ea5cae4b04a74f2782be4#block-584ea5cae4b04a74f2782be4

    Down 3? Gold standard status revoked!
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    What a great job our Brexit Cabinet must be doing eh Scott?

    If they were doing a great job they could expect to be further ahead...
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    Mr. Price, indeed. UKIP and the Lib Dems, if the former hold, could become a weird sort of yin/yang, mutually beneficial yet utterly opposed, acting as tug of war teams with Labour playing the part of the rope.

    Dr. Foxinsox, there's a difference between words and action, and I'm not sure mocking someone for raising grope as a cultural issue is justified.
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,382
    edited December 2016

    what is it with all these jazzy snowflakes?

    It's utterly bizarre. Why are some Leavers so touchy? They won, for heaven's sake!

    It's not as though businesses haven't been making political comments about the EU for years - mostly bitching about EU regulations. Presumably those complaining about Ronnie Scott's were equally indignant about that. Or pehaps not.
    Not sure what your problem is understanding this, flower.

    Businessmen with political opinions: fine.
    Businessmen expressing their political opinions: fine. Though it is foolish to be to bold to your customer base.

    Managers using their business newsletter personally to insult their customers: expect some reaction.

    Simon Cooke: the Gerald Ratner of entertainment.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    IanB2 said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    I rarely FPT myself - but frankly, snip

    TBH, my entire experience of Morocco was hmm bar buying a nice camel leather handbag.

    I'm a tough bird, and the misogyny/grabby behaviour was appalling. My handful of female fellow Landies were left so intimidated that they gave me shopping lists as they couldn't cope with the local men.

    I was leered at/asked for sex/grabbed walking down the street for merely being white. I was covered head to foot and followed everywhere by creepy men/my chest commented on/assumed to be a prostitute.

    I was on rural Morocco/Algerian border - any liberal inclined man in the UK has NO IDEA about the behaviour of men in these areas and what Europe has invited in. I was one of a party of 12 Land Rover/Toyota drivers who were exploring a new Paris/Dhaka rally parallel route. We spent 3 weeks driving 14hrs a day across the Sahara/establishing rest points/mechanics on the way - so no shrinking violets.

    One of our convoy caught fire and they ended up in my Toyota as I was solo. We seriously considered pushing their broke Landy over the edge of a cliff in the Atlas mountains, as getting her down seemed impossible/insurance was easier. After much discussion, we decided to take her back down thousands of feet by roping her between mine and another.

    This isn't tourist stuff - it's alternative life - anyone with a spec of knowledge of this culture has held up their hands and said WTF?

    That doesn't sound great, at all. Although respect for the adventure; I drove the Tiz'n Test many years ago, and that was adventure enough.


    As a character building experience - it was fab. I came home and felt oddly out of place for weeks - that must be just a spec compared to those who've done military service. I froze/boiled in the desert 0-50C, tried and failed to out run a sandstorm, was stranded hundreds of miles from anywhere with a bust axle, stuck in sand dunes and got others out using ladders.

    Those were physical and doable. The whole misogyny thing is totally foreign and real for millions of women in Europe now.

    I can't stress how revolting it is. I can brush it off because I'm a guy in a bird's body - for women who don't have such an Eff You stance - it's awful. If I hadn't experienced how creepy and grabby it was - I wouldn't be so effed off about it.

    I saw nice intrepid females totally intimated and humiliated by it. They weren't scared to take risks way beyond 90% of the population - but this was too much to endure.

    That's how revolting it is for them. I took orders to buy silver tea-sets and perfume et al as gifts - imagine being too scared to go to a market to shop for stuff like this from a souk?

    All liberal men who read PB need to get a grip and begin to understand what the other half of the population are experiencing. It's vile and not worth your political ego.
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    CookieCookie Posts: 11,359
    MattW said:

    what is it with all these jazzy snowflakes?

    It's utterly bizarre. Why are some Leavers so touchy? They won, for heaven's sake!

    It's not as though businesses haven't been making political comments about the EU for years - mostly bitching about EU regulations. Presumably those complaining about Ronnie Scott's were equally indignant about that. Or pehaps not.
    Not sure what your problem is understanding this, flower.

    Businessmen with political opinions: fine.
    Businessmen expressing their political opinions: fine. Though it is foolish to be to bold to your customer base.

    Managers using their business newsletter personally to insult their customers: expect some reaction.

    Simon Cooke: the Gerald Ratner of entertainment.
    Yes - I don't remember this sort of thing, to this scale, after a GE. There's always some carping towards Tory voters when the Tories win a GE - remember that garden centre in Sussex in, possibly 2015 (maybe 2010) - but rarely anything on the scale that we're seeing after the referendum.

    One of the things which struck me about the referendum was that the geographical and demographic cleavage between Leavers and Remainers wasn't all that great. Yes, London voted Remain - but over a third of Londoners voted Leave. Yes, the old voted Leave - but a third of them voted Remain. Yes, the rich voted Remain - but a sizeable minority of them voted Leave. Whatever demographic you are in, chance are that a lot of your peers voted the other way to the way you did. If you don't know any who did, it's possibly because you've been so busy demonising them it's easier for them to just wanly agree with you and move on.
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    Mr. Price, indeed. UKIP and the Lib Dems, if the former hold, could become a weird sort of yin/yang, mutually beneficial yet utterly opposed, acting as tug of war teams with Labour playing the part of the rope.

    Dr. Foxinsox, there's a difference between words and action, and I'm not sure mocking someone for raising grope as a cultural issue is justified.

    Not just words though was it? Leering at your female employees when they're naked, hands like an octopus...

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3834445/Don-t-worry-ladies-ve-seen-Donald-Trump-walk-naked-beauty-queens-young-15-MISS-USA-pageants-claim-former-constants.html
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    MattW said:

    Not sure what your problem is understanding this, flower.

    My problem understanding it is very simple: some normally sensible people seem to be reacting in an utterly ludicrous way, seeing 'personal insults' where there aren't any. It is, by any objective standard, astonishing, especially given that they were on the winning side, so they haven't even got the excuse that they were cheated of victory.

    Are people who voted Remain supposed to get all het up about comments made by Tim Martin or Peter Hargreaves?
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    Mr. Dawning, I agree. I wouldn't've voted for Trump.

    Yet some of the same people lambasting him for his words (and possibly actions, many are disputed) seem rather frit of doing so when it's a whole culture of misogyny.
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    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869
    I see that, at some time during the past couple of years, Commucan launched the world's first paper bottle.

    Was there a message inside it, and where did it end up?
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    My problem understanding it is very simple: some normally sensible people seem to be reacting in an utterly ludicrous way, seeing 'personal insults' where there aren't any. It is, by any objective standard, astonishing, especially given that they were on the winning side, so they haven't even got the excuse that they were cheated of victory.

    After the EU referendum, a curious thing happened. The winners were neither happy, nor triumphant. The victory announcement by Boris Johnson was funereal, almost resentful. It was almost as though the campaigners had practised and perfected their “outsiders against the establishment” lines during the campaign, and once on the winning side had no script.

    Sure enough, once the shock of the result dissipated, the sharp tone of the leave campaign returned to fill the vacuum. Any issues with Brexit were the fault of those who voted remain: they were “talking Britain down”, as if the pound’s depreciation were more sensitive to the chatter of negative remainers than to the seismic shock of a vote to leave the largest economic union on earth. Having gone through a polarising referendum and secured an unlikely victory, those on the winning side are still angry, angrier even than they were before.


    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/dec/02/brexit-trump-populists-sore-winners-play-victim
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    MattW said:

    Not sure what your problem is understanding this, flower.

    My problem understanding it is very simple: some normally sensible people seem to be reacting in an utterly ludicrous way, seeing 'personal insults' where there aren't any. It is, by any objective standard, astonishing, especially given that they were on the winning side, so they haven't even got the excuse that they were cheated of victory.

    Are people who voted Remain supposed to get all het up about comments made by Tim Martin or Peter Hargreaves?
    I mean, people did get worked up about Wetherspoons.

    CR and others are simply saying they'll take their business elsewhere which is exactly what people said bout Wetherspoons.
  • Options

    I mean, people did get worked up about Wetherspoons.

    CR and others are simply saying they'll take their business elsewhere which is exactly what people said bout Wetherspoons.

    No, they are not just saying that, they are saying they were insulted. I've no idea why.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    MaxPB said:

    ICM poll

    Conservatives: 41% (down 3 points from ICM two weeks ago)
    Labour: 27% (down 1)
    Ukip: 14% (up 2)
    Lib Dems: 9% (up 2)
    Greens: 3% (down 1)

    Conservative lead: 14 points (down 2)

    Justin was right, the 16 point lead in the last ICM was clearly a rogue. Extrapolating from this Jezza will have closed the gap by the end of March, drawing to a 20-20 tie. UKIP will be on 28% by then but under FPTP they are no threat to Labour.
    The Tory graph could look like this over the next few years if Brexit goes sour. The Labour one won't. There will be a big vacuum in the soft centre for the Lib Dems to exploit.

    image
    Not really, the one thing I've learned in my time is that the Tories will always adapt and do whatever it takes to win. Now that the centre ground has moved to the right, the Tories have a more right wing leader. If it moves back to the centre then I expect people like Kwasi Kwarteng will get a good look.
    Always? Sometimes it takes them a very, very long time to adjust. Following the period shown in that graph they chose Hague and then IDS to be leader.

    If, in my thesis, today is 1992 for the Conservatives, it could be 2030 before they get back on track after it goes south.
    Or, it could be 1982 for Labour ......
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    isamisam Posts: 40,894
    Scott_P said:

    My problem understanding it is very simple: some normally sensible people seem to be reacting in an utterly ludicrous way, seeing 'personal insults' where there aren't any. It is, by any objective standard, astonishing, especially given that they were on the winning side, so they haven't even got the excuse that they were cheated of victory.

    After the EU referendum, a curious thing happened. The winners were neither happy, nor triumphant. The victory announcement by Boris Johnson was funereal, almost resentful. It was almost as though the campaigners had practised and perfected their “outsiders against the establishment” lines during the campaign, and once on the winning side had no script.

    Sure enough, once the shock of the result dissipated, the sharp tone of the leave campaign returned to fill the vacuum. Any issues with Brexit were the fault of those who voted remain: they were “talking Britain down”, as if the pound’s depreciation were more sensitive to the chatter of negative remainers than to the seismic shock of a vote to leave the largest economic union on earth. Having gone through a polarising referendum and secured an unlikely victory, those on the winning side are still angry, angrier even than they were before.


    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/dec/02/brexit-trump-populists-sore-winners-play-victim
    I'm not as angry as I was :smile:

    Confirmation that most people agreed with me was very satisfying. Shame we haven't left yet though. When are the MP's going to listen to the advice we gave them?!
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    I mean, people did get worked up about Wetherspoons.

    CR and others are simply saying they'll take their business elsewhere which is exactly what people said bout Wetherspoons.

    No, they are not just saying that, they are saying they were insulted. I've no idea why.
    No more than the commenters here: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/nov/04/wetherspoons-boss-tim-martin-interview

    I don't have a problem with either. If you espound a political philosophy so clearly, you are going to piss some people off. I'm sure Martin thought it was worth it.

    Unless CR proposes banning the right of Scott's to do this as a matter of law, or poses blockading them or something, I don't see the issue.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    It will make absolutely no difference at all. You cannot polish a turd.

    Just to clarify, is that Corbyn or Labour as a whole? :-)
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    Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414
    AnneJGP said:

    I see that, at some time during the past couple of years, Commucan launched the world's first paper bottle.

    Was there a message inside it, and where did it end up?

    I'd like to think if there was a message it was written on a piece of glass.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    PlatoSaid said:

    I rarely FPT myself - but frankly, I've had a total skinful of liberal men on PB and elsewhere handwaving waving the cultural behaviour that's been imported by no knowledge nitwits, virtue signalling to stroke their own egos. You'd never accept this impinging on your daily lives. Ever. Oh, and have a burkah - black or maybe sky blue.

    TBH, my entire experience of Morocco was hmm bar buying a nice camel leather handbag.

    I'm a tough bird, and the misogyny/grabby behaviour was appalling. My handful of female fellow Landies were left so intimidated that they gave me shopping lists as they couldn't cope with the local men.

    I was leered at/asked for sex/grabbed walking down the street for merely being white. I was covered head to foot and followed everywhere by creepy men/my chest commented on/assumed to be a prostitute.

    I was on rural Morocco/Algerian border - any liberal inclined man in the UK has NO IDEA about the behaviour of men in these areas and what Europe has invited in. I was one of a party of 12 Land Rover/Toyota drivers who were exploring a new Paris/Dhaka rally parallel route. We spent 3 weeks driving 14hrs a day across the Sahara/establishing rest points/mechanics on the way - so no shrinking violets.

    One of our convoy caught fire and they ended up in my Toyota as I was solo. We seriously considered pushing their broke Landy over the edge of a cliff in the Atlas mountains, as getting her down seemed impossible/insurance was easier. After much discussion, we decided to take her back down thousands of feet by roping her between mine and another.

    This isn't tourist stuff - it's alternative life - anyone with a spec of knowledge of this culture has held up their hands and said WTF?

    I am sure that it was just locker room behaviour, nothing wrong with a little pussy grabbing is there?
    Dr Fox, you let yourself down a bit there old fella
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,964
    edited December 2016
    Mr. Rabbit, Jazz Lives Matter?

    Edited extra bit: I agree with you, incidentally.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Mr. Price, indeed. UKIP and the Lib Dems, if the former hold, could become a weird sort of yin/yang, mutually beneficial yet utterly opposed, acting as tug of war teams with Labour playing the part of the rope.

    Dr. Foxinsox, there's a difference between words and action, and I'm not sure mocking someone for raising grope as a cultural issue is justified.

    Not just words though was it? Leering at your female employees when they're naked, hands like an octopus...

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3834445/Don-t-worry-ladies-ve-seen-Donald-Trump-walk-naked-beauty-queens-young-15-MISS-USA-pageants-claim-former-constants.html
    Yeah.

    Arabs and Berbers leering and groping is shocking behaviour.

    It is fine and dandy for red blooded alpha male POTUS candidates, except of course if they are Democrats.
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    edited December 2016
    "Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis." Is now considered anti-semitic? So what the hell are we supposed to call what Israel is doing to Palestine (or whats left of it) if thats not genocide. The terror state of Israel is carrying out genocide right now!

    https://www.holocaustremembrance.com/sites/default/files/press_release_document_antisemitism.pdf
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    2017 might be even more exciting than 2016

    https://twitter.com/politico/status/808329737005387776
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    nunu said:

    "Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis." Is now considered anti-semitic? So what the hell are we supposed to call what Israel is doing to Palestine (or whats left of it) if thats not genocide. The terror state of Israel is carrying out genocide right now!

    https://www.holocaustremembrance.com/sites/default/files/press_release_document_antisemitism.pdf


    "The terror state of Israel is carrying out genocide right now"

    It is scary that there are people in the world that actually believe that.

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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,881
    It takes a truly stupendous salesman to sell a message that is as poor as Corbyn's.

    I doubt that David Prescott has anywhere near the skills required to make an extra ten to twenty percent of the population swing over to a Corbynista-led Labour.

    His experience seems awfully safe for the son of a prominent Labour politician. The BBC, followed by a communications company? I fear he has the same problem that Corbyn suffers from: he has little real idea of the lives of the people he claims to want to help.
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    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351
    I voted Brexit and was pleasantly surprised to be on the winning side.

    All is going well.

    Mrs May, a Remainer, is pushing ahead with honouring the result. The Labour party's Northern MPs have spoken to their voters and are gradually doing likewise.

    The odd bitter Remainers are forming a small ghetto composed of the Liberals, the Greens, the Guardian and professional know-it-alls who know nothing.

    God's in his heaven and all's right with the world.
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    saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    Scott_P said:

    What a great job our Brexit Cabinet must be doing eh Scott?

    If they were doing a great job they could expect to be further ahead...
    Average, would suffice. TM and associated bag carriers need to start showing leadership and not petulance.

    A decent opposition would be slaughtering them
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Floater said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    I rarely FPT myself - but frankly, I've had a total skinful of liberal men on PB and elsewhere handwaving waving the cultural behaviour that's been imported by no knowledge nitwits, virtue signalling to stroke their own egos. You'd never accept this impinging on your daily lives. Ever. Oh, and have a burkah - black or maybe sky blue.

    TBH, my entire experience of Morocco was hmm bar buying a nice camel leather handbag.

    I'm a tough bird, and the misogyny/grabby behaviour was appalling. My handful of female fellow Landies were left so intimidated that they gave me shopping lists as they couldn't cope with the local men.

    I was leered at/asked for sex/grabbed walking down the street for merely being white. I was covered head to foot and followed everywhere by creepy men/my chest commented on/assumed to be a prostitute.

    I was on rural Morocco/Algerian border - any liberal inclined man in the UK has NO IDEA about the behaviour of men in these areas and what Europe has invited in. I was one of a party of 12 Land Rover/Toyota drivers who were exploring a new Paris/Dhaka rally parallel route. We spent 3 weeks driving 14hrs a day across the Sahara/establishing rest points/mechanics on the way - so no shrinking violets.

    One of our convoy caught fire and they ended up in my Toyota as I was solo. We seriously considered pushing their broke Landy over the edge of a cliff in the Atlas mountains, as getting her down seemed impossible/insurance was easier. After much discussion, we decided to take her back down thousands of feet by roping her between mine and another.

    This isn't tourist stuff - it's alternative life - anyone with a spec of knowledge of this culture has held up their hands and said WTF?

    I am sure that it was just locker room behaviour, nothing wrong with a little pussy grabbing is there?
    Dr Fox, you let yourself down a bit there old fella
    Golly, what a very stupid comment from @foxinsoxuk

    Still, I guess being a guy he knows all about being female.

    This isn't the first time I've cited my experience here. How inconvenient to his trite political position, rather than actually make an argument.

    I look forward to light, and logical positioning.
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    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869

    It takes a truly stupendous salesman to sell a message that is as poor as Corbyn's.

    I doubt that David Prescott has anywhere near the skills required to make an extra ten to twenty percent of the population swing over to a Corbynista-led Labour.

    His experience seems awfully safe for the son of a prominent Labour politician. The BBC, followed by a communications company? I fear he has the same problem that Corbyn suffers from: he has little real idea of the lives of the people he claims to want to help.

    I suppose everybody over the age of about 50 has real-life experience of what Mr Corbyn stands for, witness his standing in opinion polls.

    It's a tremendously hard ask to sell an old & rejected product to the people who knew it only too well & rejected it decades ago. I doubt whether even a 'New Improved, Recipe' approach would work.

    What was that car with the square-ish steering wheel? Austin Allegro? Not highly regarded at the time, imagine trying to push that now as the newest, most up-to-date thing on wheels.
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    This was reported first a few days ago may well be relevant again to the way this thread is developing.

    http://www.open-britain.co.uk/miliband_new_poll_shows_government_faces_almighty_backlash_from_leave_voters_if_brexit_leaves_them_poorer
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    isam said:

    Scott_P said:

    My problem understanding it is very simple: some normally sensible people seem to be reacting in an utterly ludicrous way, seeing 'personal insults' where there aren't any. It is, by any objective standard, astonishing, especially given that they were on the winning side, so they haven't even got the excuse that they were cheated of victory.

    After the EU referendum, a curious thing happened. The winners were neither happy, nor triumphant. The victory announcement by Boris Johnson was funereal, almost resentful. It was almost as though the campaigners had practised and perfected their “outsiders against the establishment” lines during the campaign, and once on the winning side had no script.

    Sure enough, once the shock of the result dissipated, the sharp tone of the leave campaign returned to fill the vacuum. Any issues with Brexit were the fault of those who voted remain: they were “talking Britain down”, as if the pound’s depreciation were more sensitive to the chatter of negative remainers than to the seismic shock of a vote to leave the largest economic union on earth. Having gone through a polarising referendum and secured an unlikely victory, those on the winning side are still angry, angrier even than they were before.


    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/dec/02/brexit-trump-populists-sore-winners-play-victim
    I'm not as angry as I was :smile:

    Confirmation that most people agreed with me was very satisfying. Shame we haven't left yet though. When are the MP's going to listen to the advice we gave them?!

    When the government gives them the opportunity.

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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    CD13 said:

    I voted Brexit and was pleasantly surprised to be on the winning side.

    All is going well.

    Mrs May, a Remainer, is pushing ahead with honouring the result. The Labour party's Northern MPs have spoken to their voters and are gradually doing likewise.

    The odd bitter Remainers are forming a small ghetto composed of the Liberals, the Greens, the Guardian and professional know-it-alls who know nothing.

    God's in his heaven and all's right with the world.

    As a surprised reader of the STimes - Niall Ferguson was exceptionally humble re Brexit - he said all his missives were because he was mates with Team Cameron.

    It's a massive and very credible mea culpa. He deserves a total pass for being a Remain Wanker

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/past-six-days/2016-12-11/comment/sorry-i-was-wrong-to-fight-brexit-just-to-keep-my-friends-in-no-10-and-no-11-rjk6mwx60
  • Options

    I mean, people did get worked up about Wetherspoons.

    CR and others are simply saying they'll take their business elsewhere which is exactly what people said bout Wetherspoons.

    No, they are not just saying that, they are saying they were insulted. I've no idea why.
    I think you do. If the managing director of one of your favourite clubs says, in their editorial, that the way you voted was a direct attack on their establishment, and then ended with a insulting limerick, would you feel welcome any more?

    I go there to get away from it all, to relax, and I felt this was two giant fingers to me. Of course, you can argue i shouldn't of felt like that, or get upset, but I did and I found the whole tone rude and unnecessary. I think it felt personal because to me it's a very personal place. A sanctuary away from the world.

    I can't make it any clearer than that. Some people understand, including some Remainers - like Nick Palmer and viewcode - who've been very kind about it. Others have taken the piss or hurled 'serves you right' lines back. But I think I've been very clear about why.
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    I see the safe spacers are out in force this afternoon. How such people gather the fortitude to step across the front doorstep is beyond me.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,881
    AnneJGP said:

    It takes a truly stupendous salesman to sell a message that is as poor as Corbyn's.

    I doubt that David Prescott has anywhere near the skills required to make an extra ten to twenty percent of the population swing over to a Corbynista-led Labour.

    His experience seems awfully safe for the son of a prominent Labour politician. The BBC, followed by a communications company? I fear he has the same problem that Corbyn suffers from: he has little real idea of the lives of the people he claims to want to help.

    I suppose everybody over the age of about 50 has real-life experience of what Mr Corbyn stands for, witness his standing in opinion polls.

    It's a tremendously hard ask to sell an old & rejected product to the people who knew it only too well & rejected it decades ago. I doubt whether even a 'New Improved, Recipe' approach would work.

    What was that car with the square-ish steering wheel? Austin Allegro? Not highly regarded at the time, imagine trying to push that now as the newest, most up-to-date thing on wheels.
    My biggest issue with Corbyn's Labour isn't their ideology: it's the fact they're not opposing. The government are getting a pretty free ride.

    As it happens that's probably for the best: the last thing we need is a Major-style chaotic government in charge during Brexit. But there are many non-Brexit matters where the government needs stronger opposition.

    Whilst my mind's firmly set against Corbyn, I still don't know what to make of May. I'd been hoping that the conference would make things clearer, but it didn't. This leads to perhaps the most important political question at the moment:

    Is May a leader? Is she directing our side of Brexit as a leader should, or is she a leaf blowing in the Three Brexiteers' wind?

    I fear we will not discover for some time.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,261
    edited December 2016
    PlatoSaid said:

    I rarely FPT myself - but frankly, I've had a total skinful of liberal men on PB and elsewhere handwaving waving the cultural behaviour that's been imported by no knowledge nitwits, virtue signalling to stroke their own egos. You'd never accept this impinging on your daily lives. Ever. Oh, and have a burkah - black or maybe sky blue.

    TBH, my entire experience of Morocco was hmm bar buying a nice camel leather handbag.

    I'm a tough bird, and the misogyny/grabby behaviour was appalling. My handful of female fellow Landies were left so intimidated that they gave me shopping lists as they couldn't cope with the local men.

    I was leered at/asked for sex/grabbed walking down the street for merely being white. I was covered head to foot and followed everywhere by creepy men/my chest commented on/assumed to be a prostitute.

    I was on rural Morocco/Algerian border - any liberal inclined man in the UK has NO IDEA about the behaviour of men in these areas and what Europe has invited in. I was one of a party of 12 Land Rover/Toyota drivers who were exploring a new Paris/Dhaka rally parallel route. We spent 3 weeks driving 14hrs a day across the Sahara/establishing rest points/mechanics on the way - so no shrinking violets.

    One of our convoy caught fire and they ended up in my Toyota as I was solo. We seriously considered pushing their broke Landy over the edge of a cliff in the Atlas mountains, as getting her down seemed impossible/insurance was easier. After much discussion, we decided to take her back down thousands of feet by roping her between mine and another.

    This isn't tourist stuff - it's alternative life - anyone with a spec of knowledge of this culture has held up their hands and said WTF?

    Sobering stuff. I have heard similar stories.

    Of course, the classic thing to do on the cultural Left is to then follow up saying it's no worse than a Friday night out in Birmingham and Western men are just the same. But it isn't, and they're not.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    I mean, people did get worked up about Wetherspoons.

    CR and others are simply saying they'll take their business elsewhere which is exactly what people said bout Wetherspoons.

    No, they are not just saying that, they are saying they were insulted. I've no idea why.
    I think you do. If the managing director of one of your favourite clubs says, in their editorial, that the way you voted was a direct attack on their establishment, and then ended with a insulting limerick, would you feel welcome any more?

    I go there to get away from it all, to relax, and I felt this was two giant fingers to me. Of course, you can argue i shouldn't of felt like that, or get upset, but I did and I found the whole tone rude and unnecessary. I think it felt personal because to me it's a very personal place. A sanctuary away from the world.

    I can't make it any clearer than that. Some people understand, including some Remainers - like Nick Palmer and viewcode - who've been very kind about it. Others have taken the piss or hurled 'serves you right' lines back. But I think I've been very clear about why.
    Seriously, you've an opinion - that's it. Stop arguing. We aren't interested, no one is changing their view. Your point has been made.
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,905
    PlatoSaid said:

    CD13 said:

    I voted Brexit and was pleasantly surprised to be on the winning side.

    All is going well.

    Mrs May, a Remainer, is pushing ahead with honouring the result. The Labour party's Northern MPs have spoken to their voters and are gradually doing likewise.

    The odd bitter Remainers are forming a small ghetto composed of the Liberals, the Greens, the Guardian and professional know-it-alls who know nothing.

    God's in his heaven and all's right with the world.

    As a surprised reader of the STimes - Niall Ferguson was exceptionally humble re Brexit - he said all his missives were because he was mates with Team Cameron.

    It's a massive and very credible mea culpa. He deserves a total pass for being a Remain Wanker

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/past-six-days/2016-12-11/comment/sorry-i-was-wrong-to-fight-brexit-just-to-keep-my-friends-in-no-10-and-no-11-rjk6mwx60
    Have to say I find this surprising Obviously its admirable to admit when you are wrong... But Ferguson seems to be saying... Yes I said things I didn't really believe because I was mates with David Cameron. Is that really such an admirable thing?

    I think part of it is he realises that the market for opinion writers saying brexit is terrible is going to be pretty crowded...
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    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    "The young Prescott is a former BBC journalist"

    1. What is it about Labour nowadays and hereditary political power? Kinnock, Straw, Prescott - you wonder if they've been taking inspiration from Kim Jong Un.
    2. A former BBC employee? Quelle surprise.
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    VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,435
    I read from the BBC newsite that Lord Prior has died: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38292549

    As Jim Prior he was one of the leading Wets during Thatcher's first government.
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    I see the safe spacers are out in force this afternoon. How such people gather the fortitude to step across the front doorstep is beyond me.

    In fairness, that booklet should definitely have had some kind of trigger warning. 'Caution - contains potentially distressing pro-EU sentiments.' That sort of thing...
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    edited December 2016
    AnneJGP said:

    It takes a truly stupendous salesman to sell a message that is as poor as Corbyn's.

    I doubt that David Prescott has anywhere near the skills required to make an extra ten to twenty percent of the population swing over to a Corbynista-led Labour.

    His experience seems awfully safe for the son of a prominent Labour politician. The BBC, followed by a communications company? I fear he has the same problem that Corbyn suffers from: he has little real idea of the lives of the people he claims to want to help.

    I suppose everybody over the age of about 50 has real-life experience of what Mr Corbyn stands for, witness his standing in opinion polls.

    It's a tremendously hard ask to sell an old & rejected product to the people who knew it only too well & rejected it decades ago. I doubt whether even a 'New Improved, Recipe' approach would work.

    What was that car with the square-ish steering wheel? Austin Allegro? Not highly regarded at the time, imagine trying to push that now as the newest, most up-to-date thing on wheels.
    CLAPS

    I was about 11yrs old when I went to the now demolished Killingworth Towers [knocked down before the mortgage was due] leisure centre swimming pool. The bin bags were 12ft high outside as we waited for the bus.

    Brutalist architecture made flesh - effing awful again

    http://www.somethingconcreteandmodern.co.uk/building/killingworth-towers/
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    PlatoSaid said:

    I mean, people did get worked up about Wetherspoons.

    CR and others are simply saying they'll take their business elsewhere which is exactly what people said bout Wetherspoons.

    No, they are not just saying that, they are saying they were insulted. I've no idea why.
    I think you do. If the managing director of one of your favourite clubs says, in their editorial, that the way you voted was a direct attack on their establishment, and then ended with a insulting limerick, would you feel welcome any more?

    I go there to get away from it all, to relax, and I felt this was two giant fingers to me. Of course, you can argue i shouldn't of felt like that, or get upset, but I did and I found the whole tone rude and unnecessary. I think it felt personal because to me it's a very personal place. A sanctuary away from the world.

    I can't make it any clearer than that. Some people understand, including some Remainers - like Nick Palmer and viewcode - who've been very kind about it. Others have taken the piss or hurled 'serves you right' lines back. But I think I've been very clear about why.
    Seriously, you've an opinion - that's it. Stop arguing. We aren't interested, no one is changing their view. Your point has been made.
    Reply to wrong post?
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    PlatoSaid said:

    I mean, people did get worked up about Wetherspoons.

    CR and others are simply saying they'll take their business elsewhere which is exactly what people said bout Wetherspoons.

    No, they are not just saying that, they are saying they were insulted. I've no idea why.
    I think you do. If the managing director of one of your favourite clubs says, in their editorial, that the way you voted was a direct attack on their establishment, and then ended with a insulting limerick, would you feel welcome any more?

    I go there to get away from it all, to relax, and I felt this was two giant fingers to me. Of course, you can argue i shouldn't of felt like that, or get upset, but I did and I found the whole tone rude and unnecessary. I think it felt personal because to me it's a very personal place. A sanctuary away from the world.

    I can't make it any clearer than that. Some people understand, including some Remainers - like Nick Palmer and viewcode - who've been very kind about it. Others have taken the piss or hurled 'serves you right' lines back. But I think I've been very clear about why.
    Seriously, you've an opinion - that's it. Stop arguing. We aren't interested, no one is changing their view. Your point has been made.
    And I'm not interested in much of what you post, which often has little or no relation to the subject of the thread. But you post what you like.

    I will do the same, thank you.
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    Forest Hill station stabbing: Knifeman shouted 'I want to kill a Muslim'

    Witnesses describe the "horrific" attack as a man is reportedly stabbed at a railway station in front of his wife.

    http://news.sky.com/story/forest-hill-station-stabbing-knifeman-shouted-i-want-to-kill-a-muslim-10693616
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024

    PlatoSaid said:

    I rarely FPT myself - but frankly, I've had a total skinful of liberal men on PB and elsewhere handwaving waving the cultural behaviour that's been imported by no knowledge nitwits, virtue signalling to stroke their own egos. You'd never accept this impinging on your daily lives. Ever. Oh, and have a burkah - black or maybe sky blue.

    TBH, my entire experience of Morocco was hmm bar buying a nice camel leather handbag.

    I'm a tough bird, and the misogyny/grabby behaviour was appalling. My handful of female fellow Landies were left so intimidated that they gave me shopping lists as they couldn't cope with the local men.

    I was leered at/asked for sex/grabbed walking down the street for merely being white. I was covered head to foot and followed everywhere by creepy men/my chest commented on/assumed to be a prostitute.

    I was on rural Morocco/Algerian border - any liberal inclined man in the UK has NO IDEA about the behaviour of men in these areas and what Europe has invited in. I was one of a party of 12 Land Rover/Toyota drivers who were exploring a new Paris/Dhaka rally parallel route. We spent 3 weeks driving 14hrs a day across the Sahara/establishing rest points/mechanics on the way - so no shrinking violets.

    One of our convoy caught fire and they ended up in my Toyota as I was solo. We seriously considered pushing their broke Landy over the edge of a cliff in the Atlas mountains, as getting her down seemed impossible/insurance was easier. After much discussion, we decided to take her back down thousands of feet by roping her between mine and another.

    This isn't tourist stuff - it's alternative life - anyone with a spec of knowledge of this culture has held up their hands and said WTF?

    Sobering stuff. I have heard similar stories.

    Of course, the classic thing to do on the cultural Left is to then follow up saying it's no worse than a Friday night out in Birmingham and Western men are just the same. But it isn't, and they're not.
    Ahhh Jess Phillips. Seriously is this the best Labour have? Was she selected by an AWS? It would explain a lot.
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    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400

    Forest Hill station stabbing: Knifeman shouted 'I want to kill a Muslim'

    Witnesses describe the "horrific" attack as a man is reportedly stabbed at a railway station in front of his wife.

    http://news.sky.com/story/forest-hill-station-stabbing-knifeman-shouted-i-want-to-kill-a-muslim-10693616


    No doubt a mentally ill man known locally as Dave....
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    I see the safe spacers are out in force this afternoon. How such people gather the fortitude to step across the front doorstep is beyond me.

    In fairness, that booklet should definitely have had some kind of trigger warning. 'Caution - contains potentially distressing pro-EU sentiments.' That sort of thing...
    I can handle any argument or point of view. If I couldn't, I wouldn't come on here for one. I'm not interested in 'safe spaces'. And I would have been happy to debate the same individual at the bar.

    That's quite different from it being made clear that your custom and presence isn't welcome; if anything the proprietor seeking to create a purged space free of any dissenting opinion.
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    JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    Does it really matter what Corbyn says, or how he says it? The public aren't stupid. He could never be a PM in a million years. At the most fundamental level, even forgiving all of his dubious baggage and extremist associations, he simply does not have the intellectual capacity to think above what he sees in front of his nose. As Farage said, a 'low grade bank clerk' would perfectly describe his ability.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    JonathanD said:

    Forest Hill station stabbing: Knifeman shouted 'I want to kill a Muslim'

    Witnesses describe the "horrific" attack as a man is reportedly stabbed at a railway station in front of his wife.

    http://news.sky.com/story/forest-hill-station-stabbing-knifeman-shouted-i-want-to-kill-a-muslim-10693616


    No doubt a mentally ill man known locally as Dave....
    Funny how things are immediately obvious in cases like these....

    *dons flame suit*
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,382

    MattW said:

    Not sure what your problem is understanding this, flower.

    My problem understanding it is very simple: some normally sensible people seem to be reacting in an utterly ludicrous way, seeing 'personal insults' where there aren't any. It is, by any objective standard, astonishing, especially given that they were on the winning side, so they haven't even got the excuse that they were cheated of victory.

    Are people who voted Remain supposed to get all het up about comments made by Tim Martin or Peter Hargreaves?
    Err. The manager of a business that I have supported personalised it; he chose to portray a vote that he personally disagreed with as a "direct attack" on his business, and to reach out and tell his customers so.

    I am simply complaining to the business about his behaviour. I see no problem with that.

    But suddenly we have a parade of remainers flapping away about "safe spaces". Bizarre :-D .

    Did Tim Martin or Peter Hargreaves accuse their customers of "attacking their businesses" by voting the wrong way? I suspect that they are both too grownup.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/12/exclusive-european-citizens-living-uk-should-remain-jurisdiction/

    And why would we agree to this? If they want to live under EU law, move to the EU.
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    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Not sure what your problem is understanding this, flower.

    My problem understanding it is very simple: some normally sensible people seem to be reacting in an utterly ludicrous way, seeing 'personal insults' where there aren't any. It is, by any objective standard, astonishing, especially given that they were on the winning side, so they haven't even got the excuse that they were cheated of victory.

    Are people who voted Remain supposed to get all het up about comments made by Tim Martin or Peter Hargreaves?
    Err. The manager of a business that I have supported personalised it; he chose to portray a vote that he personally disagreed with as a "direct attack" on his business, and to reach out and tell his customers so.

    I am simply complaining to the business about his behaviour. I see no problem with that.

    But suddenly we have a parade of remainers flapping away about "safe spaces". Bizarre :-D .

    Did Tim Martin or Peter Hargreaves accuse their customers of "attacking their businesses" by voting the wrong way? I suspect that they are both too grownup.
    How on earth is that personalising it? He's simply telling you the impact on the business which he sees as entirely negative.

    You don't like hearing that. Tough shit. Grow up.
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,382
    edited December 2016

    I see the safe spacers are out in force this afternoon. How such people gather the fortitude to step across the front doorstep is beyond me.

    In fairness, that booklet should definitely have had some kind of trigger warning. 'Caution - contains potentially distressing pro-EU sentiments.' That sort of thing...
    More like: "Caution. Contains flapping noises from butthurt (*) Remainer who can't separate the personal and the professional."

    I wonder if he uses Jazz Hands.

    * I think that is the correct Americanism.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    edited December 2016

    PlatoSaid said:

    I mean, people did get worked up about Wetherspoons.

    CR and others are simply saying they'll take their business elsewhere which is exactly what people said bout Wetherspoons.

    No, they are not just saying that, they are saying they were insulted. I've no idea why.
    I think you do. If the managing director of one of your favourite clubs says, in their editorial, that the way you voted was a direct attack on their establishment, and then ended with a insulting limerick, would you feel welcome any more?

    I go there to get away from it all, to relax, and I felt this was two giant fingers to me. Of course, you can argue i shouldn't of felt like that, or get upset, but I did and I found the whole tone rude and unnecessary. I think it felt personal because to me it's a very personal place. A sanctuary away from the world.

    I can't make it any clearer than that. Some people understand, including some Remainers - like Nick Palmer and viewcode - who've been very kind about it. Others have taken the piss or hurled 'serves you right' lines back. But I think I've been very clear about why.
    Seriously, you've an opinion - that's it. Stop arguing. We aren't interested, no one is changing their view. Your point has been made.
    And I'm not interested in much of what you post, which often has little or no relation to the subject of the thread. But you post what you like.

    I will do the same, thank you.
    I think my post was buggered by Vanilla - I've just seen how it's played out.

    Ignore the entire thing as it ended up pointed at you - I've no idea how we ended up here.

    Using the BAU CSI model - it wasn't intentional.
    Edit

    Bit of a shame I've been disowned out of hand after months of support.

    Ho hum - given this weirdness - should I assume that your hair trigger to assume the worst is you?

    I prefer to assume stuff is out of context et all. Ho hum.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    PlatoSaid said:

    I mean, people did get worked up about Wetherspoons.

    CR and others are simply saying they'll take their business elsewhere which is exactly what people said bout Wetherspoons.

    No, they are not just saying that, they are saying they were insulted. I've no idea why.
    I think you do. If the managing director of one of your favourite clubs says, in their editorial, that the way you voted was a direct attack on their establishment, and then ended with a insulting limerick, would you feel welcome any more?

    I go there to get away from it all, to relax, and I felt this was two giant fingers to me. Of course, you can argue i shouldn't of felt like that, or get upset, but I did and I found the whole tone rude and unnecessary. I think it felt personal because to me it's a very personal place. A sanctuary away from the world.

    I can't make it any clearer than that. Some people understand, including some Remainers - like Nick Palmer and viewcode - who've been very kind about it. Others have taken the piss or hurled 'serves you right' lines back. But I think I've been very clear about why.
    Seriously, you've an opinion - that's it. Stop arguing. We aren't interested, no one is changing their view. Your point has been made.
    And I'm not interested in much of what you post, which often has little or no relation to the subject of the thread. But you post what you like.

    I will do the same, thank you.
    I wonder if some of these responses are getting a bit muddled or did i step through the looking glass :)
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    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Not sure what your problem is understanding this, flower.

    My problem understanding it is very simple: some normally sensible people seem to be reacting in an utterly ludicrous way, seeing 'personal insults' where there aren't any. It is, by any objective standard, astonishing, especially given that they were on the winning side, so they haven't even got the excuse that they were cheated of victory.

    Are people who voted Remain supposed to get all het up about comments made by Tim Martin or Peter Hargreaves?
    Err. The manager of a business that I have supported personalised it; he chose to portray a vote that he personally disagreed with as a "direct attack" on his business, and to reach out and tell his customers so.

    I am simply complaining to the business about his behaviour. I see no problem with that.

    But suddenly we have a parade of remainers flapping away about "safe spaces". Bizarre :-D .

    Did Tim Martin or Peter Hargreaves accuse their customers of "attacking their businesses" by voting the wrong way? I suspect that they are both too grownup.
    And if he sees this as an attack on his business he's supposed to do what? Stay quiet?

    He didn't insult leave voters he detailed why he saw this as bad for business. So freaking what? I voted Leave but couldn't care less about this. It does strike me as a bit of a safe space "don't give a view I don't like" bullshit.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,894
    felix said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    I mean, people did get worked up about Wetherspoons.

    CR and others are simply saying they'll take their business elsewhere which is exactly what people said bout Wetherspoons.

    No, they are not just saying that, they are saying they were insulted. I've no idea why.
    I think you do. If the managing director of one of your favourite clubs says, in their editorial, that the way you voted was a direct attack on their establishment, and then ended with a insulting limerick, would you feel welcome any more?

    I go there to get away from it all, to relax, and I felt this was two giant fingers to me. Of course, you can argue i shouldn't of felt like that, or get upset, but I did and I found the whole tone rude and unnecessary. I think it felt personal because to me it's a very personal place. A sanctuary away from the world.

    I can't make it any clearer than that. Some people understand, including some Remainers - like Nick Palmer and viewcode - who've been very kind about it. Others have taken the piss or hurled 'serves you right' lines back. But I think I've been very clear about why.
    Seriously, you've an opinion - that's it. Stop arguing. We aren't interested, no one is changing their view. Your point has been made.
    And I'm not interested in much of what you post, which often has little or no relation to the subject of the thread. But you post what you like.

    I will do the same, thank you.
    I wonder if some of these responses are getting a bit muddled or did i step through the looking glass :)
    Just gone ten past 4
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    felix said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    I mean, people did get worked up about Wetherspoons.

    CR and others are simply saying they'll take their business elsewhere which is exactly what people said bout Wetherspoons.

    No, they are not just saying that, they are saying they were insulted. I've no idea why.
    I think you do. If the managing director of one of your favourite clubs says, in their editorial, that the way you voted was a direct attack on their establishment, and then ended with a insulting limerick, would you feel welcome any more?

    I go there to get away from it all, to relax, and I felt this was two giant fingers to me. Of course, you can argue i shouldn't of felt like that, or get upset, but I did and I found the whole tone rude and unnecessary. I think it felt personal because to me it's a very personal place. A sanctuary away from the world.

    I can't make it any clearer than that. Some people understand, including some Remainers - like Nick Palmer and viewcode - who've been very kind about it. Others have taken the piss or hurled 'serves you right' lines back. But I think I've been very clear about why.
    Seriously, you've an opinion - that's it. Stop arguing. We aren't interested, no one is changing their view. Your point has been made.
    And I'm not interested in much of what you post, which often has little or no relation to the subject of the thread. But you post what you like.

    I will do the same, thank you.
    I wonder if some of these responses are getting a bit muddled or did i step through the looking glass :)
    A blue on blue handbagging. :D
This discussion has been closed.