Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Not long to go until those end of year political bets are reso

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited December 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Not long to go until those end of year political bets are resolved

At the end of the biggest political betting year ever we’ve still got pile of wagers to be resolved and that won’t happen until midnight tomorrow night. These are ones relating to whether things will or will not happen during 2016.

Read the full story here


«1

Comments

  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    None
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,888
    edited December 2016
    Turnout on the US election STILL not settled by betfair.

    Hunt to make it to the year to roll in,

    & Corbyn to make it to the year end, a final farewell to Victor Chandler.
  • What is remarkable is not just 10/1 on Osborne going coming home ... but that it came through due to a night where you could have got 10/1 on Leave winning after polls had closed. Strange year and well done to all winners.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,606
    http://thetimes.co.uk/article/4d91cd7c-ceac-11e6-90d4-32d09e9feb7c

    Article of the year. Giles Coren still has "it".
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    2016 ends with a fragile Syrian ceasefire. The irony is that the US which has been the only superpower since late '80s and its lackey, the UK, whose bark is louder than its bite [ remember how we had to be seen "fighting" in Syria; has anyone even noticed ? ] are not even in the game. They have been made totally irrelevant.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,752
    Obama really is a useless tit

  • @Alanbrooke - Merry Cristmas to you. Cold in Warwickshire, isn't it?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,752

    @Alanbrooke - Merry Cristmas to you. Cold in Warwickshire, isn't it?

    Bloody freezing !

    brooke Junior hit 21 today so we spent the afternoon at a restauarant in Lower Slaughter - it was freezing fog the whole way back with visibility down to 25 yards

    glad to get back home, light the fire and open some fizz ! :-)
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited December 2016

    Obama really is a useless tit

    And can be really dangerous for the US and the world as he go's into a tizzy fit and hits out at his perceived demons, during his last 20 days.

    Edited
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Bloody foggy in West London despite our Council taxes being so high !
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    surbiton said:

    2016 ends with a fragile Syrian ceasefire. The irony is that the US which has been the only superpower since late '80s and its lackey, the UK, whose bark is louder than its bite [ remember how we had to be seen "fighting" in Syria; has anyone even noticed ? ] are not even in the game. They have been made totally irrelevant.

    Yeah, the Russians have a moral advantage (I typed amoral which is perhaps better). They don't give a shit about how many they kill. They really will destroy the village, the town, the city, because that's what they do. The stupid and hypocritical left seem to love them for this. Congratulations.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,752
    MikeK said:

    Obama really is a useless tit

    And can be really dangerous for the US and the world as he go's into a tizzy fit and hits out at his perceived demons.
    For the first time in my adult life I'm with the Russians rather than the yanks. I'm really glad Obama is leaving the scene.
  • Caught up in the thread change so apologies for the OT nature at the start of a thread.

    Off topic.

    Someone just shared this on my Facebook page and, even as an atheist, I can't think of a better message to close the year.

    http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws.english/videozone_ENG/1.2852447
  • I don't think I have any end of year bets. Closest would be Bottas to be top 3 in 2017 (technically win the title each way, so I'd be rather pleased if he beat Hamilton).

    The thread so far seems to agree that Obama is, diplomatically, at the back of the queue.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,841
    Pretty unbelievable soft-soap interview on R4 with Sharon Shoesmith, the head of Haringey social services during the Baby P case.

    A woman who appears to find the concept of "The buck stops here" as strange and alien.

    (That is not defending Ed Balls' inept sacking of her. But an interview where she constantly talks of herself as the victim seems rather odd)
  • If you have a soul, this is for you @alanbrooke
    https://youtu.be/gYJO5fJgNSQ
  • We, this little group of ours, rule the feckin world.

    I wasn't going to, but I will, take a splash more of the water of life and just one more big, fat Cubano.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,841

    MikeK said:

    Obama really is a useless tit

    And can be really dangerous for the US and the world as he go's into a tizzy fit and hits out at his perceived demons.
    For the first time in my adult life I'm with the Russians rather than the yanks. I'm really glad Obama is leaving the scene.
    "For the first time in my adult life I'm with the Russians rather than the yanks."

    Why?
  • I am sticking with the Yanks. The Russians frighten me.
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478

    If you have a soul, this is for you @alanbrooke
    https://youtu.be/gYJO5fJgNSQ

    It moves me to tears (don't tell anyone) every time I see it, for several reasons.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Just watching E1 of the Crown and really not liking it the whole tone on events. Hmm.
  • @Toms - God bless you. Me too.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,789
    FPT, hideous Scottish numbers for Labour.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,810
    Sean_F said:

    FPT, hideous Scottish numbers for Labour.

    More than well deserved, the Tories little helpers are having to pay the piper.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    I am sticking with the Yanks. The Russians frighten me.

    In 2 weeks time the Yanks will team up with the Russians against their obvious enemies.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,789
    @Surbiton, Assad is probably the best of a very bad bunch.
  • PlatoSaid said:

    Just watching E1 of the Crown and really not liking it the whole tone on events. Hmm.

    Different tastes I suppose. I much prefer my historical fiction books and TV to be primarily 'events' held together by a glue of drama. I always feel cheated when the emphasis is on the personal drama and the historical events are really just used as a backdrop.
  • "MikeK Posts: 8,887
    5:44PM edited 5:45PM
    Alanbrooke said:
    Obama really is a useless tit


    And can be really dangerous for the US and the world as he go's into a tizzy fit and hits out at his perceived demons, during his last 20 days."

    Breathtaking that you should be more worried about 'no drama Obama' than Trump.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,877

    Pretty unbelievable soft-soap interview on R4 with Sharon Shoesmith, the head of Haringey social services during the Baby P case.

    A woman who appears to find the concept of "The buck stops here" as strange and alien.

    (That is not defending Ed Balls' inept sacking of her. But an interview where she constantly talks of herself as the victim seems rather odd)

    I am a male rabbit and I'm not going any further
  • perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    matt said:

    surbiton said:

    2016 ends with a fragile Syrian ceasefire. The irony is that the US which has been the only superpower since late '80s and its lackey, the UK, whose bark is louder than its bite [ remember how we had to be seen "fighting" in Syria; has anyone even noticed ? ] are not even in the game. They have been made totally irrelevant.

    Yeah, the Russians have a moral advantage (I typed amoral which is perhaps better). They don't give a shit about how many they kill. They really will destroy the village, the town, the city, because that's what they do. The stupid and hypocritical left seem to love them for this. Congratulations.
    Yes, remember how they beat the Chechens - wiped out Grozny completely including any remaining inhabitants.

  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    matt said:

    surbiton said:

    2016 ends with a fragile Syrian ceasefire. The irony is that the US which has been the only superpower since late '80s and its lackey, the UK, whose bark is louder than its bite [ remember how we had to be seen "fighting" in Syria; has anyone even noticed ? ] are not even in the game. They have been made totally irrelevant.

    Yeah, the Russians have a moral advantage (I typed amoral which is perhaps better). They don't give a shit about how many they kill. They really will destroy the village, the town, the city, because that's what they do. The stupid and hypocritical left seem to love them for this. Congratulations.
    Er...I don't support Putin or the Russians. I am not sure how can you equate a thoroughly despicable right-wing murderous regime with the Left. When was Putin a lefty.

    My point was that after our moral bankruptcy as a result of Iraq and also Libya, we have become completely irrelevant.

    Some of our policies are also frankly puzzling: we hate Assad, a murderous bastard but a secular one but we ally ourselves with a murderous bunch of bastards who are also Islamists, apparently not as bad as Al Qaeda [ that's a relief ! ]

  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    surbiton said:

    2016 ends with a fragile Syrian ceasefire. The irony is that the US which has been the only superpower since late '80s and its lackey, the UK, whose bark is louder than its bite [ remember how we had to be seen "fighting" in Syria; has anyone even noticed ? ] are not even in the game. They have been made totally irrelevant.

    Obama never wanted to get involved again in the middle east and europe.

    It was Hillary, Cameron and Sarkozy that wanted to play macho, they never had the reputation of being strong so they felt the need to prove it when they went down in the polls.

    It is obvious that once the West plays no part in that region that it stabilizes by itself.
    With regional powers who don't feel the need to prove that they are macho, because they already are.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Sean_F said:

    @Surbiton, Assad is probably the best of a very bad bunch.

    Ironically, so was Saddam. A murderer who murdered those he wanted to murder but left others [ Christians, Jews ] alone as long as they didn't cause trouble.

    But we were not happy. We wanted to make it a nice happy place without having the foggiest idea what we were getting into. Now we have created a gigantic mess where, we have finally lost any semblance of control.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    I hold media/Obama/Hillary's pandering to BLM responsible for the latter

    http://nypost.com/2016/12/30/number-of-cops-killed-in-line-of-duty-this-year-spikes-drastically/

    "Ambushes in Dallas and Baton Rouge, Louisiana, and other shootings around the country led to a sharp increase in the number of police killed in the line of duty this year.

    From Jan. 1 through Wednesday, 135 officers lost their lives. Some died in traffic accidents, but nearly half were shot to death. That’s a 56 percent increase in shooting deaths over the previous year.

    Of the 64 who were fatally shot, 21 were killed in ambush attacks often fueled by anger over police use of force involving minorities...
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    The Russians are pragmatists. When they have a goal they will do what is required to reach it.

    The US and UK care too much about their enemies (always a dangerous sign as this is not reciprocated) to be effective in political, military or economic war.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    "MikeK Posts: 8,887
    5:44PM edited 5:45PM
    Alanbrooke said:
    Obama really is a useless tit


    And can be really dangerous for the US and the world as he go's into a tizzy fit and hits out at his perceived demons, during his last 20 days."

    Breathtaking that you should be more worried about 'no drama Obama' than Trump.

    In a way Alanbrooke is right. Trump has ceded this part of the world to his friend and helper, Vladimir.

    His answer to email hacking: "Let's get on with our lives." He does even bother to hide his cosy relationship with Putin.

    After all, P helped him avoid bankruptcy.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited December 2016
    perdix said:

    matt said:

    surbiton said:

    2016 ends with a fragile Syrian ceasefire. The irony is that the US which has been the only superpower since late '80s and its lackey, the UK, whose bark is louder than its bite [ remember how we had to be seen "fighting" in Syria; has anyone even noticed ? ] are not even in the game. They have been made totally irrelevant.

    Yeah, the Russians have a moral advantage (I typed amoral which is perhaps better). They don't give a shit about how many they kill. They really will destroy the village, the town, the city, because that's what they do. The stupid and hypocritical left seem to love them for this. Congratulations.
    Yes, remember how they beat the Chechens - wiped out Grozny completely including any remaining inhabitants.

    That is how wars are won.
    And this is why I'm a bit of a pacifist.

    Starting a war is easy, winning it requires killing the enemy on a mass scale and destruction that in today's world is barbaric.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    PlatoSaid said:

    I hold media/Obama/Hillary's pandering to BLM responsible for the latter

    http://nypost.com/2016/12/30/number-of-cops-killed-in-line-of-duty-this-year-spikes-drastically/

    "Ambushes in Dallas and Baton Rouge, Louisiana, and other shootings around the country led to a sharp increase in the number of police killed in the line of duty this year.

    From Jan. 1 through Wednesday, 135 officers lost their lives. Some died in traffic accidents, but nearly half were shot to death. That’s a 56 percent increase in shooting deaths over the previous year.

    Of the 64 who were fatally shot, 21 were killed in ambush attacks often fueled by anger over police use of force involving minorities...

    How many unarmed blacks were killed, you right-wing zealot ?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,954
    surbiton said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    I hold media/Obama/Hillary's pandering to BLM responsible for the latter

    http://nypost.com/2016/12/30/number-of-cops-killed-in-line-of-duty-this-year-spikes-drastically/

    "Ambushes in Dallas and Baton Rouge, Louisiana, and other shootings around the country led to a sharp increase in the number of police killed in the line of duty this year.

    From Jan. 1 through Wednesday, 135 officers lost their lives. Some died in traffic accidents, but nearly half were shot to death. That’s a 56 percent increase in shooting deaths over the previous year.

    Of the 64 who were fatally shot, 21 were killed in ambush attacks often fueled by anger over police use of force involving minorities...

    How many unarmed blacks were killed, you right-wing zealot ?
    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/a-handful-of-cities-are-driving-2016s-rise-in-murders/

    Murder rate only up about 10 per cent this year, so the 50 per cent figure looks like a bit of an outlier (although small number statistics come into play).
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,954
    surbiton said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    I hold media/Obama/Hillary's pandering to BLM responsible for the latter

    http://nypost.com/2016/12/30/number-of-cops-killed-in-line-of-duty-this-year-spikes-drastically/

    "Ambushes in Dallas and Baton Rouge, Louisiana, and other shootings around the country led to a sharp increase in the number of police killed in the line of duty this year.

    From Jan. 1 through Wednesday, 135 officers lost their lives. Some died in traffic accidents, but nearly half were shot to death. That’s a 56 percent increase in shooting deaths over the previous year.

    Of the 64 who were fatally shot, 21 were killed in ambush attacks often fueled by anger over police use of force involving minorities...

    How many unarmed blacks were killed, you right-wing zealot ?
    Oh, sorry, you were referring to people killed by police I think.

    That figure looks to be down on 2015:

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database
  • Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    If a link between trump and the Russians hacking the Democratic election campaign can be proved, would that be treason and grounds for impeachment ?
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    RobD said:

    surbiton said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    I hold media/Obama/Hillary's pandering to BLM responsible for the latter

    http://nypost.com/2016/12/30/number-of-cops-killed-in-line-of-duty-this-year-spikes-drastically/

    "Ambushes in Dallas and Baton Rouge, Louisiana, and other shootings around the country led to a sharp increase in the number of police killed in the line of duty this year.

    From Jan. 1 through Wednesday, 135 officers lost their lives. Some died in traffic accidents, but nearly half were shot to death. That’s a 56 percent increase in shooting deaths over the previous year.

    Of the 64 who were fatally shot, 21 were killed in ambush attacks often fueled by anger over police use of force involving minorities...

    How many unarmed blacks were killed, you right-wing zealot ?
    Oh, sorry, you were referring to people killed by police I think.

    That figure looks to be down on 2015:

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database
    Are you saying that the killings of unarmed blacks [ or, any people ] by the police is OK ?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,954
    Blue_rog said:

    If a link between trump and the Russians hacking the Democratic election campaign can be proved, would that be treason and grounds for impeachment ?

    Presidents are impeached by Congress, so that looks unlikely in the near term.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,954
    edited December 2016
    surbiton said:

    RobD said:

    surbiton said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    I hold media/Obama/Hillary's pandering to BLM responsible for the latter

    http://nypost.com/2016/12/30/number-of-cops-killed-in-line-of-duty-this-year-spikes-drastically/

    "Ambushes in Dallas and Baton Rouge, Louisiana, and other shootings around the country led to a sharp increase in the number of police killed in the line of duty this year.

    From Jan. 1 through Wednesday, 135 officers lost their lives. Some died in traffic accidents, but nearly half were shot to death. That’s a 56 percent increase in shooting deaths over the previous year.

    Of the 64 who were fatally shot, 21 were killed in ambush attacks often fueled by anger over police use of force involving minorities...

    How many unarmed blacks were killed, you right-wing zealot ?
    Oh, sorry, you were referring to people killed by police I think.

    That figure looks to be down on 2015:

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database
    Are you saying that the killings of unarmed blacks [ or, any people ] by the police is OK ?
    Where did I say or imply that? In fact, it is curious that as the situation is improving, the number of police killed has significantly increased.

    234 unarmed killed in 2015, down to 148 in 2016.
  • AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    edited December 2016
    Blue_rog said:

    If a link between trump and the Russians hacking the Democratic election campaign can be proved, would that be treason and grounds for impeachment ?

    It's going to be harder than that.

    Even assuming it is provable, which is doubtful. Trump using information the Russians decided to make publically available because it happened to be to his advantage isn't a crime. You would have to prove some sort of collusion or conspiracy to make that fly, and good luck with that.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,877
    surbiton said:

    RobD said:

    surbiton said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    I hold media/Obama/Hillary's pandering to BLM responsible for the latter

    http://nypost.com/2016/12/30/number-of-cops-killed-in-line-of-duty-this-year-spikes-drastically/

    "Ambushes in Dallas and Baton Rouge, Louisiana, and other shootings around the country led to a sharp increase in the number of police killed in the line of duty this year.

    From Jan. 1 through Wednesday, 135 officers lost their lives. Some died in traffic accidents, but nearly half were shot to death. That’s a 56 percent increase in shooting deaths over the previous year.

    Of the 64 who were fatally shot, 21 were killed in ambush attacks often fueled by anger over police use of force involving minorities...

    How many unarmed blacks were killed, you right-wing zealot ?
    Oh, sorry, you were referring to people killed by police I think.

    That figure looks to be down on 2015:

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database
    Are you saying that the killings of unarmed blacks [ or, any people ] by the police is OK ?
    How do you price up that is what he is saying? Can I back 1.01 "No"?

    How do I price up that you know that is not what he is saying? I wouldn't lay 1.01 "Yes"
  • Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    RobD said:

    Blue_rog said:

    If a link between trump and the Russians hacking the Democratic election campaign can be proved, would that be treason and grounds for impeachment ?

    Presidents are impeached by Congress, so that looks unlikely in the near term.
    Really? Are you suggesting that as the Republicans have a majority in Congress that they would traduce the American people and refuse to impeach if there are clear grounds?
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    RobD said:



    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/a-handful-of-cities-are-driving-2016s-rise-in-murders/

    Murder rate only up about 10 per cent this year, so the 50 per cent figure looks like a bit of an outlier (although small number statistics come into play).

    On top of an extra 10% rise last year over there.

    Looking at the numbers the murder rate in some american cities is now approaching the death rate of soldiers during the Iraq War.
    That says a lot about the state of american society, it's like they suddenly went crazy.

    Last time that happened was in the late 1960's where the crime rate in the USA doubled between 1964 and 1970.
    It coincided with the huge drug epidemic of that time, same as today.

    Drugs and Crime seem to have a very strong correlation.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Blue_rog said:

    If a link between trump and the Russians hacking the Democratic election campaign can be proved, would that be treason and grounds for impeachment ?

    I don't think you will ever find a link. I don't think you will find, er, a email trail.

    Just like you would have difficulty proving any link between Comey and Trump. But any rationale person would ask the most obvious question: why would you raise the matter of emails 9 days before the election with no evidence to suggest any wrongdoing and then, miraculously, 2 days before the election announce that nothing was found.

    If it was the UK, Trump would surely give him the knighthood.
  • AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    Blue_rog said:

    RobD said:

    Blue_rog said:

    If a link between trump and the Russians hacking the Democratic election campaign can be proved, would that be treason and grounds for impeachment ?

    Presidents are impeached by Congress, so that looks unlikely in the near term.
    Really? Are you suggesting that as the Republicans have a majority in Congress that they would traduce the American people and refuse to impeach if there are clear grounds?
    There wont be clear grounds.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,954
    Blue_rog said:

    RobD said:

    Blue_rog said:

    If a link between trump and the Russians hacking the Democratic election campaign can be proved, would that be treason and grounds for impeachment ?

    Presidents are impeached by Congress, so that looks unlikely in the near term.
    Really? Are you suggesting that as the Republicans have a majority in Congress that they would traduce the American people and refuse to impeach if there are clear grounds?
    I highly doubt there will be any convincing evidence of conspiracy.
  • Are you more pro your own side or anti the other side?

    I am more anti than pro, for sure.

    It's not healthy.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,954

    Are you more pro your own side or anti the other side?

    I am more anti than pro, for sure.

    It's not healthy.

    Ah, I'm the opposite. I'm more pro-FPTP than anti-AV :)
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Blue_rog said:

    RobD said:

    Blue_rog said:

    If a link between trump and the Russians hacking the Democratic election campaign can be proved, would that be treason and grounds for impeachment ?

    Presidents are impeached by Congress, so that looks unlikely in the near term.
    Really? Are you suggesting that as the Republicans have a majority in Congress that they would traduce the American people and refuse to impeach if there are clear grounds?
    Since this is a clearly political matter rather than a legal one the answer is yes.

    Even Bill Clinton got away for lying about having sex in the oval office with Monica, he committed perjury but democrats refused to vote against him in the Senate, and Clinton's popularity went up.

    The Iran-Contra scandal also could have resulted in Reagan's impeachment but Republicans wouldn't budge.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,180

    Are you more pro your own side or anti the other side?

    I am more anti than pro, for sure.

    It's not healthy.

    Jezza makes a lot of these otherwise nuanced decisions a whole lot easier.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,954
    isam said:

    surbiton said:

    RobD said:

    surbiton said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    I hold media/Obama/Hillary's pandering to BLM responsible for the latter

    http://nypost.com/2016/12/30/number-of-cops-killed-in-line-of-duty-this-year-spikes-drastically/

    "Ambushes in Dallas and Baton Rouge, Louisiana, and other shootings around the country led to a sharp increase in the number of police killed in the line of duty this year.

    From Jan. 1 through Wednesday, 135 officers lost their lives. Some died in traffic accidents, but nearly half were shot to death. That’s a 56 percent increase in shooting deaths over the previous year.

    Of the 64 who were fatally shot, 21 were killed in ambush attacks often fueled by anger over police use of force involving minorities...

    How many unarmed blacks were killed, you right-wing zealot ?
    Oh, sorry, you were referring to people killed by police I think.

    That figure looks to be down on 2015:

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database
    Are you saying that the killings of unarmed blacks [ or, any people ] by the police is OK ?
    How do you price up that is what he is saying? Can I back 1.01 "No"?

    How do I price up that you know that is not what he is saying? I wouldn't lay 1.01 "Yes"
    I assume I am not eligible for this bet? :D
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited December 2016

    Blue_rog said:

    If a link between trump and the Russians hacking the Democratic election campaign can be proved, would that be treason and grounds for impeachment ?

    It's going to be harder than that.

    Even assuming it is provable, which is doubtful. Trump using information the Russians decided to make publically available because it happened to be to his advantage isn't a crime. You would have to prove some sort of collusion or conspiracy to make that fly, and good luck with that.
    Today, I heard a Russia Today correspondent, Oksana ???, talking about the hacking, started with the words "Even if they were true..."

    Her point was that the leaks simply made public what had actually happened which was that the Democratic establishment was favouring Hillary over Bernie Sanders.

    Of course, what she didn't say was that if such leaks made sure that a few tens of thousands Bernie supporters in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin stayed at home or worse voted for Trump [ States which Bernie had won ], it would have been enough for Trump to win.

    No doubt , Russia and Comey [ strange bedfellows ] together won it for Trump.
  • Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    surbiton said:

    Blue_rog said:

    If a link between trump and the Russians hacking the Democratic election campaign can be proved, would that be treason and grounds for impeachment ?

    I don't think you will ever find a link. I don't think you will find, er, a email trail.

    Just like you would have difficulty proving any link between Comey and Trump. But any rationale person would ask the most obvious question: why would you raise the matter of emails 9 days before the election with no evidence to suggest any wrongdoing and then, miraculously, 2 days before the election announce that nothing was found.

    If it was the UK, Trump would surely give him the knighthood.
    Wow, American politics are more corrupt than I'd imagined. Think I'll need to regard Person of Interest as closer to reality than fiction :lol:
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    edited December 2016
    surbiton said:

    RobD said:

    surbiton said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    I hold media/Obama/Hillary's pandering to BLM responsible for the latter

    http://nypost.com/2016/12/30/number-of-cops-killed-in-line-of-duty-this-year-spikes-drastically/

    "Ambushes in Dallas and Baton Rouge, Louisiana, and other shootings around the country led to a sharp increase in the number of police killed in the line of duty this year.

    From Jan. 1 through Wednesday, 135 officers lost their lives. Some died in traffic accidents, but nearly half were shot to death. That’s a 56 percent increase in shooting deaths over the previous year.

    Of the 64 who were fatally shot, 21 were killed in ambush attacks often fueled by anger over police use of force involving minorities...

    How many unarmed blacks were killed, you right-wing zealot ?
    Oh, sorry, you were referring to people killed by police I think.

    That figure looks to be down on 2015:

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database
    Are you saying that the killings of unarmed blacks [ or, any people ] by the police is OK ?
    Wow !!
    the smell of acrid burning rubber and huge clouds of white smoke from your spinning wheels as you turned in circles to a different attack line was utterly awesome there...........


    When presented with facts that proved your original course of argument wrong of course :lol:
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    surbiton said:

    matt said:

    surbiton said:

    2016 ends with a fragile Syrian ceasefire. The irony is that the US which has been the only superpower since late '80s and its lackey, the UK, whose bark is louder than its bite [ remember how we had to be seen "fighting" in Syria; has anyone even noticed ? ] are not even in the game. They have been made totally irrelevant.

    Yeah, the Russians have a moral advantage (I typed amoral which is perhaps better). They don't give a shit about how many they kill. They really will destroy the village, the town, the city, because that's what they do. The stupid and hypocritical left seem to love them for this. Congratulations.
    Er...I don't support Putin or the Russians. I am not sure how can you equate a thoroughly despicable right-wing murderous regime with the Left. When was Putin a lefty.

    My point was that after our moral bankruptcy as a result of Iraq and also Libya, we have become completely irrelevant.

    Some of our policies are also frankly puzzling: we hate Assad, a murderous bastard but a secular one but we ally ourselves with a murderous bunch of bastards who are also Islamists, apparently not as bad as Al Qaeda [ that's a relief ! ]

    Our moral bankruptcy is because we are unwilling, for reasons which are various and we would differ on, to allow what's euphemistically called collateral damage to occur. The Russians have never shown that to be an issue. What should the West have done?

    Putin's behaviours are, in many respects, not a million miles from Stalin's.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,877
    RobD said:

    isam said:

    surbiton said:

    RobD said:

    surbiton said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    I hold media/Obama/Hillary's pandering to BLM responsible for the latter

    http://nypost.com/2016/12/30/number-of-cops-killed-in-line-of-duty-this-year-spikes-drastically/

    "Ambushes in Dallas and Baton Rouge, Louisiana, and other shootings around the country led to a sharp increase in the number of police killed in the line of duty this year.

    From Jan. 1 through Wednesday, 135 officers lost their lives. Some died in traffic accidents, but nearly half were shot to death. That’s a 56 percent increase in shooting deaths over the previous year.

    Of the 64 who were fatally shot, 21 were killed in ambush attacks often fueled by anger over police use of force involving minorities...

    How many unarmed blacks were killed, you right-wing zealot ?
    Oh, sorry, you were referring to people killed by police I think.

    That figure looks to be down on 2015:

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database
    Are you saying that the killings of unarmed blacks [ or, any people ] by the police is OK ?
    How do you price up that is what he is saying? Can I back 1.01 "No"?

    How do I price up that you know that is not what he is saying? I wouldn't lay 1.01 "Yes"
    I assume I am not eligible for this bet? :D
    No!!
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,752
    matt said:

    surbiton said:

    matt said:

    surbiton said:

    2016 ends with a fragile Syrian ceasefire. The irony is that the US which has been the only superpower since late '80s and its lackey, the UK, whose bark is louder than its bite [ remember how we had to be seen "fighting" in Syria; has anyone even noticed ? ] are not even in the game. They have been made totally irrelevant.

    Yeah, the Russians have a moral advantage (I typed amoral which is perhaps better). They don't give a shit about how many they kill. They really will destroy the village, the town, the city, because that's what they do. The stupid and hypocritical left seem to love them for this. Congratulations.
    Er...I don't support Putin or the Russians. I am not sure how can you equate a thoroughly despicable right-wing murderous regime with the Left. When was Putin a lefty.

    My point was that after our moral bankruptcy as a result of Iraq and also Libya, we have become completely irrelevant.

    Some of our policies are also frankly puzzling: we hate Assad, a murderous bastard but a secular one but we ally ourselves with a murderous bunch of bastards who are also Islamists, apparently not as bad as Al Qaeda [ that's a relief ! ]

    Our moral bankruptcy is because we are unwilling, for reasons which are various and we would differ on, to allow what's euphemistically called collateral damage to occur. The Russians have never shown that to be an issue. What should the West have done?

    Putin's behaviours are, in many respects, not a million miles from Stalin's.
    If Putins behaviour is similar to Stalins then Cameron's and Obama's mirror Mussolini
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    This good intention road leads to Hell

    "Beginning on Jan. 1, prostitution by minors will be legal in California. Yes, you read that right.

    SB 1322 bars law enforcement from arresting sex workers who are under the age of 18 for soliciting or engaging in prostitution, or loitering with the intent to do so. So teenage girls (and boys) in California will soon be free to have sex in exchange for money without fear of arrest or prosecution.

    This terribly destructive legislation was written and passed by the progressive Democrats who control California's state government with a two-thirds "supermajority." To their credit, they are sincere in their belief that decriminalizing underage prostitution is good public policy that will help victims of sex trafficking. Unfortunately, the reality is that the legalization of underage prostitution suffers from the fatal defect endemic to progressive-left policymaking: it ignores experience, common sense and most of all human nature — especially its darker side...

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/california-democrats-legalize-child-prostitution/article/2610540?custom_click=rss

    It's PIE in action.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    surbiton said:

    Blue_rog said:

    If a link between trump and the Russians hacking the Democratic election campaign can be proved, would that be treason and grounds for impeachment ?

    It's going to be harder than that.

    Even assuming it is provable, which is doubtful. Trump using information the Russians decided to make publically available because it happened to be to his advantage isn't a crime. You would have to prove some sort of collusion or conspiracy to make that fly, and good luck with that.
    Today, I heard a Russia Today correspondent, Oksana ???, talking about the hacking, started with the words "Even if they were true..."

    Her point was that the leaks simply made public what had actually happened which was that the Democratic establishment was favouring Hillary over Bernie Sanders.

    Of course, what she didn't say was that if such leaks made sure that a few tens of thousands Bernie supporters in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin stayed at home or worse voted for Trump [ States which Bernie had won ], it would have been enough for Trump to win.

    No doubt , Russia and Comey [ strange bedfellows ] together won it for Trump.
    "Even If they were true"
    "Of course what she didn't say"
    "If such leaks""
    "Would have been enough"

    Tad short of evidence and any facts there but other than that great post.

    Happy to believe it if some fact is presented as I don't trust them either. Building straw men to then knock down though isn't going to prove a point or a case.
  • AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    surbiton said:

    Blue_rog said:

    If a link between trump and the Russians hacking the Democratic election campaign can be proved, would that be treason and grounds for impeachment ?

    It's going to be harder than that.

    Even assuming it is provable, which is doubtful. Trump using information the Russians decided to make publically available because it happened to be to his advantage isn't a crime. You would have to prove some sort of collusion or conspiracy to make that fly, and good luck with that.
    Today, I heard a Russia Today correspondent, Oksana ???, talking about the hacking, started with the words "Even if they were true..."

    Her point was that the leaks simply made public what had actually happened which was that the Democratic establishment was favouring Hillary over Bernie Sanders.

    Of course, what she didn't say was that if such leaks made sure that a few tens of thousands Bernie supporters in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin stayed at home or worse voted for Trump [ States which Bernie had won ], it would have been enough for Trump to win.

    No doubt , Russia and Comey [ strange bedfellows ] together won it for Trump.
    Yes I agree. However to get from there to acting against Trump you would have to demonstrate he did more than profit from information that a third party of its own volition decided to make public. Proving that Trump procured the information, or conspired in it being obtained sounds.... unlikely.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,905
    Blue_rog said:

    RobD said:

    Blue_rog said:

    If a link between trump and the Russians hacking the Democratic election campaign can be proved, would that be treason and grounds for impeachment ?

    Presidents are impeached by Congress, so that looks unlikely in the near term.
    Really? Are you suggesting that as the Republicans have a majority in Congress that they would traduce the American people and refuse to impeach if there are clear grounds?
    Is this a joke?
  • PlankPlank Posts: 71
    Like OGH I bet against article 50 being triggered in 2016.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,748
    @Mike - Congratulations on your end of year winnings (if they are such), and a far more hearty set of congratulations on running a site that has really been the only place to hang out in 2016.
  • surbiton = left-wing zealot!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,180
    Apart from anything else, and as someone currently engaged in working backwards and forwards from the Princes in the Tower, the interesting thing about The Crown is that we have the protagonists living amongst us and therefore all and every depiction becomes an important historical document.

    This is of course aside from official "histories" (quotation marks because history is of course subjective).
  • Anyway, time for me to be off.

    If you haven't yet, please do consider voting on which cover of mine you prefer.
    http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.co.uk/2016/12/vote-picking-paperback-cover.html

    https://twitter.com/MorrisF1/status/814756990316646400
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Here we go......well perhaps?

    BREAKING NEWS:
    Warning is issued of ‘immediate and severe’ risk of terror attacks on tourist targets in India with New Year beach parties feared most at-risk. Israel has warned that tourist targets are under 'immediate risk' in India. The threat referred to the 'south-west of the country', which includes Goa.

    'A particular emphasis should be put on events in the coming days in connection with beach and club parties celebrating the New Year where a concentration of tourists will be high,' the warning said. It also recommended avoiding markets, festivals and crowded shopping areas. The warning was also unusual in that it was published on Friday evening, after the start of the Jewish Sabbath, after government offices had closed

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4076772/Israel-warns-severe-immediate-risk-terror-attacks-against-tourist-targets-India.html#ixzz4ULj7X2OX
  • @Moses

    Southwest also includes Kerala
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Impeachment is for misconduct *in office*; Trump hasn't been in office yet. That rules out impeachment for now. Separately, there is an offence of treason, but it only applies to waging war against the US or aiding their enemies in war. For now he is in the clear.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865

    Anyway, time for me to be off.

    If you haven't yet, please do consider voting on which cover of mine you prefer.
    http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.co.uk/2016/12/vote-picking-paperback-cover.html

    https://twitter.com/MorrisF1/status/814756990316646400

    done. No spoilers :smiley:
  • Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Impeachment is for misconduct *in office*; Trump hasn't been in office yet. That rules out impeachment for now. Separately, there is an offence of treason, but it only applies to waging war against the US or aiding their enemies in war. For now he is in the clear.

    Thank you
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    PlatoSaid said:

    This good intention road leads to Hell

    "Beginning on Jan. 1, prostitution by minors will be legal in California. Yes, you read that right.

    SB 1322 bars law enforcement from arresting sex workers who are under the age of 18 for soliciting or engaging in prostitution, or loitering with the intent to do so. So teenage girls (and boys) in California will soon be free to have sex in exchange for money without fear of arrest or prosecution.

    This terribly destructive legislation was written and passed by the progressive Democrats who control California's state government with a two-thirds "supermajority." To their credit, they are sincere in their belief that decriminalizing underage prostitution is good public policy that will help victims of sex trafficking. Unfortunately, the reality is that the legalization of underage prostitution suffers from the fatal defect endemic to progressive-left policymaking: it ignores experience, common sense and most of all human nature — especially its darker side...

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/california-democrats-legalize-child-prostitution/article/2610540?custom_click=rss

    It's PIE in action.

    Isn't that the same as the legal situation that we have always had here?

    In the Uk, being a prostitute is not illegal, but pimping is, as is kerbcrawling.

    As almost all prostitutes start as underage victims of pimps it seems a sensible change of policy to me.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865

    @Moses

    Southwest also includes Kerala

    Yes as you say, sorry. Not specifically familiar with the area of interest though.

    Valid warning? Who knows? There are always more warnings that actual events of course.
  • Talking of politicians apparently under investigation:

    https://twitter.com/paullewismoney/status/814905799051018240
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,954

    Talking of politicians apparently under investigation:

    https://twitter.com/paullewismoney/status/814905799051018240

    Erm, that's hardly proof. It's only proof that someone complained about it.
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024

    Anyway, time for me to be off.

    If you haven't yet, please do consider voting on which cover of mine you prefer.
    http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.co.uk/2016/12/vote-picking-paperback-cover.html

    https://twitter.com/MorrisF1/status/814756990316646400

    You'll get more buyers with the one with blood, more people will pick it up read the back and buy it. The other one looks like it would disappear into the background.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    PlatoSaid said:

    This good intention road leads to Hell

    "Beginning on Jan. 1, prostitution by minors will be legal in California. Yes, you read that right.

    SB 1322 bars law enforcement from arresting sex workers who are under the age of 18 for soliciting or engaging in prostitution, or loitering with the intent to do so. So teenage girls (and boys) in California will soon be free to have sex in exchange for money without fear of arrest or prosecution.

    This terribly destructive legislation was written and passed by the progressive Democrats who control California's state government with a two-thirds "supermajority." To their credit, they are sincere in their belief that decriminalizing underage prostitution is good public policy that will help victims of sex trafficking. Unfortunately, the reality is that the legalization of underage prostitution suffers from the fatal defect endemic to progressive-left policymaking: it ignores experience, common sense and most of all human nature — especially its darker side...

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/california-democrats-legalize-child-prostitution/article/2610540?custom_click=rss

    It's PIE in action.

    Isn't that the same as the legal situation that we have always had here?

    In the Uk, being a prostitute is not illegal, but pimping is, as is kerbcrawling.

    As almost all prostitutes start as underage victims of pimps it seems a sensible change of policy to me.
    It's also highly inaccurate to say "Beginning on Jan. 1, prostitution by minors will be legal in California." The age of consent in California is 18. No sex with an under-18-year-old is legal in that state, whether it's within the scope of prostitution or not. I have no idea of the detail of this legislation or its intent, but I should imagine it's designed to encourage under-age prostitutes, especially those forced into it, to make complaints against their clients without any fear of legal comeback upon themselves.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,877

    Talking of politicians apparently under investigation:

    https://twitter.com/paullewismoney/status/814905799051018240

    Not enough made of Mr Brexit's real initials being NF in my view
  • Talking of politicians apparently under investigation:

    https://twitter.com/paullewismoney/status/814905799051018240

    Fair play to Nigel. Moving around Europe might be a touch trickier for us Brits after Brexit, so if Nigel can use his marriage to counter that disadvantage then why not? And I'll wager that all those squealing would do likewise given the same opportunity.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865

    PlatoSaid said:

    This good intention road leads to Hell

    "Beginning on Jan. 1, prostitution by minors will be legal in California. Yes, you read that right.

    SB 1322 bars law enforcement from arresting sex workers who are under the age of 18 for soliciting or engaging in prostitution, or loitering with the intent to do so. So teenage girls (and boys) in California will soon be free to have sex in exchange for money without fear of arrest or prosecution.

    This terribly destructive legislation was written and passed by the progressive Democrats who control California's state government with a two-thirds "supermajority." To their credit, they are sincere in their belief that decriminalizing underage prostitution is good public policy that will help victims of sex trafficking. Unfortunately, the reality is that the legalization of underage prostitution suffers from the fatal defect endemic to progressive-left policymaking: it ignores experience, common sense and most of all human nature — especially its darker side...

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/california-democrats-legalize-child-prostitution/article/2610540?custom_click=rss

    It's PIE in action.

    Isn't that the same as the legal situation that we have always had here?

    In the Uk, being a prostitute is not illegal, but pimping is, as is kerbcrawling.

    As almost all prostitutes start as underage victims of pimps it seems a sensible change of policy to me.
    If this is sensible how does this help underage prostitution? At the moment i cannot see the removal of a layer of protection helps or does this legalise sex with minors?

    It sounds similar to legalising drugs which has a different set of arguments and reasoning of course?

    That's a genuine question by the way.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    rpjs said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    This good intention road leads to Hell

    "Beginning on Jan. 1, prostitution by minors will be legal in California. Yes, you read that right.

    SB 1322 bars law enforcement from arresting sex workers who are under the age of 18 for soliciting or engaging in prostitution, or loitering with the intent to do so. So teenage girls (and boys) in California will soon be free to have sex in exchange for money without fear of arrest or prosecution.

    This terribly destructive legislation was written and passed by the progressive Democrats who control California's state government with a two-thirds "supermajority." To their credit, they are sincere in their belief that decriminalizing underage prostitution is good public policy that will help victims of sex trafficking. Unfortunately, the reality is that the legalization of underage prostitution suffers from the fatal defect endemic to progressive-left policymaking: it ignores experience, common sense and most of all human nature — especially its darker side...

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/california-democrats-legalize-child-prostitution/article/2610540?custom_click=rss

    It's PIE in action.

    Isn't that the same as the legal situation that we have always had here?

    In the Uk, being a prostitute is not illegal, but pimping is, as is kerbcrawling.

    As almost all prostitutes start as underage victims of pimps it seems a sensible change of policy to me.
    It's also highly inaccurate to say "Beginning on Jan. 1, prostitution by minors will be legal in California." The age of consent in California is 18. No sex with an under-18-year-old is legal in that state, whether it's within the scope of prostitution or not. I have no idea of the detail of this legislation or its intent, but I should imagine it's designed to encourage under-age prostitutes, especially those forced into it, to make complaints against their clients without any fear of legal comeback upon themselves.
    Ah yes that makes a bit more sense I suppose? I can also see some downsides insofar as it is unlikely to prevent it happening as this was probably done with quite an element of fear anyway from the pimps. Those that were freelance now also seem to have a get out of jail free card?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Moses_ said:

    rpjs said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    This good intention road leads to Hell

    "Beginning on Jan. 1, prostitution by minors will be legal in California. Yes, you read that right.

    SB 1322 bars law enforcement from arresting sex workers who are under the age of 18 for soliciting or engaging in prostitution, or loitering with the intent to do so. So teenage girls (and boys) in California will soon be free to have sex in exchange for money without fear of arrest or prosecution.

    This terribly destructive legislation was written and passed by the progressive Democrats who control California's state government with a two-thirds "supermajority." To their credit, they are sincere in their belief that decriminalizing underage prostitution is good public policy that will help victims of sex trafficking. Unfortunately, the reality is that the legalization of underage prostitution suffers from the fatal defect endemic to progressive-left policymaking: it ignores experience, common sense and most of all human nature — especially its darker side...

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/california-democrats-legalize-child-prostitution/article/2610540?custom_click=rss

    It's PIE in action.

    Isn't that the same as the legal situation that we have always had here?

    In the Uk, being a prostitute is not illegal, but pimping is, as is kerbcrawling.

    As almost all prostitutes start as underage victims of pimps it seems a sensible change of policy to me.
    It's also highly inaccurate to say "Beginning on Jan. 1, prostitution by minors will be legal in California." The age of consent in California is 18. No sex with an under-18-year-old is legal in that state, whether it's within the scope of prostitution or not. I have no idea of the detail of this legislation or its intent, but I should imagine it's designed to encourage under-age prostitutes, especially those forced into it, to make complaints against their clients without any fear of legal comeback upon themselves.
    Ah yes that makes a bit more sense I suppose? I can also see some downsides insofar as it is unlikely to prevent it happening as this was probably done with quite an element of fear anyway from the pimps. Those that were freelance now also seem to have a get out of jail free card?
    There are very few freelancers (I once had professional contact with underage prostitutes, my profession not theirs).

    Being a pimp or customer remains criminal, and the prostitute becomes a social work issue. Care homes for teenage girls are recruiting grounds for pimps though, so there is a degree of circle of despair.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,212
    edited December 2016
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Impeachment is for misconduct *in office*; Trump hasn't been in office yet. That rules out impeachment for now. Separately, there is an offence of treason, but it only applies to waging war against the US or aiding their enemies in war. For now he is in the clear.

    Not true.

    You can be impeached for crimes committed before taking federal/executive office.

    cf Spiro Agnew who asked the House to begin impeachment investigations into him for allegations relating to his time as Governor of Maryland.

    There's other examples, for example Federal Judges impeached for crimes before they joined the federal bench.

    The term high crimes and misdemeanours is purposely vague, of course it relies on the House and Senate not to use it as a political weapon but exclusively for high crimes and misdemeanours.
  • Moses_ said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    This good intention road leads to Hell

    "Beginning on Jan. 1, prostitution by minors will be legal in California. Yes, you read that right.

    SB 1322 bars law enforcement from arresting sex workers who are under the age of 18 for soliciting or engaging in prostitution, or loitering with the intent to do so. So teenage girls (and boys) in California will soon be free to have sex in exchange for money without fear of arrest or prosecution.

    This terribly destructive legislation was written and passed by the progressive Democrats who control California's state government with a two-thirds "supermajority." To their credit, they are sincere in their belief that decriminalizing underage prostitution is good public policy that will help victims of sex trafficking. Unfortunately, the reality is that the legalization of underage prostitution suffers from the fatal defect endemic to progressive-left policymaking: it ignores experience, common sense and most of all human nature — especially its darker side...

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/california-democrats-legalize-child-prostitution/article/2610540?custom_click=rss

    It's PIE in action.

    Isn't that the same as the legal situation that we have always had here?

    In the Uk, being a prostitute is not illegal, but pimping is, as is kerbcrawling.

    As almost all prostitutes start as underage victims of pimps it seems a sensible change of policy to me.
    If this is sensible how does this help underage prostitution? At the moment i cannot see the removal of a layer of protection helps or does this legalise sex with minors?

    It sounds similar to legalising drugs which has a different set of arguments and reasoning of course?

    That's a genuine question by the way.
    https://www.romper.com/p/california-did-not-legalize-child-prostitution-heres-what-actually-happened-27111
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,776
    PB's Christmas Truce between LEAVE and REMAIN has gone well today I see! :smiley:
  • On topic, I think I've only got Jeremy Hunt to be Health Secretary on 1/1/2017, tipped by me at a massive 1/6 back in September.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,841
    Moses_ said:

    rpjs said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    This good intention road leads to Hell

    "Beginning on Jan. 1, prostitution by minors will be legal in California. Yes, you read that right.

    SB 1322 bars law enforcement from arresting sex workers who are under the age of 18 for soliciting or engaging in prostitution, or loitering with the intent to do so. So teenage girls (and boys) in California will soon be free to have sex in exchange for money without fear of arrest or prosecution.

    This terribly destructive legislation was written and passed by the progressive Democrats who control California's state government with a two-thirds "supermajority." To their credit, they are sincere in their belief that decriminalizing underage prostitution is good public policy that will help victims of sex trafficking. Unfortunately, the reality is that the legalization of underage prostitution suffers from the fatal defect endemic to progressive-left policymaking: it ignores experience, common sense and most of all human nature — especially its darker side...

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/california-democrats-legalize-child-prostitution/article/2610540?custom_click=rss

    It's PIE in action.

    Isn't that the same as the legal situation that we have always had here?

    In the Uk, being a prostitute is not illegal, but pimping is, as is kerbcrawling.

    As almost all prostitutes start as underage victims of pimps it seems a sensible change of policy to me.
    It's also highly inaccurate to say "Beginning on Jan. 1, prostitution by minors will be legal in California." The age of consent in California is 18. No sex with an under-18-year-old is legal in that state, whether it's within the scope of prostitution or not. I have no idea of the detail of this legislation or its intent, but I should imagine it's designed to encourage under-age prostitutes, especially those forced into it, to make complaints against their clients without any fear of legal comeback upon themselves.
    Ah yes that makes a bit more sense I suppose? I can also see some downsides insofar as it is unlikely to prevent it happening as this was probably done with quite an element of fear anyway from the pimps. Those that were freelance now also seem to have a get out of jail free card?
    It's probably to stop the situation where a pimp uses threat of the law against the minor. "You want to go to the police? If you tell them about me then you'll have to admit you're a prostitute. You'll be the one going to jail, not me."

    A powerful weapon against a vulnerable minor.

    The freelance comment probably isn't an issue, just as it shouldn't be in this country if the child is under sixteen.
  • nunu said:

    Anyway, time for me to be off.

    If you haven't yet, please do consider voting on which cover of mine you prefer.
    http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.co.uk/2016/12/vote-picking-paperback-cover.html

    https://twitter.com/MorrisF1/status/814756990316646400

    You'll get more buyers with the one with blood, more people will pick it up read the back and buy it. The other one looks like it would disappear into the background.
    Though the other one has the title and author nicely separated, so it is easier to read the title at a glance. Perhaps there should be a third option!

    That said, most of the time in bookshops, customers only see the spine anyway.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    In anticipation of Trump's alliance with Russia, in a trip down history Thatcher was planning an alliance with the Soviets against Germany:
    https://twitter.com/Birdyword/status/814850338742304768

    Thatcher was right, Germany is dominating Europe now and we desperately need allies against them.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,877
    isam said:

    Talking of politicians apparently under investigation:

    https://twitter.com/paullewismoney/status/814905799051018240

    Not enough made of Mr Brexit's real initials being NF in my view
    ... and that flag should be burning. This is schoolboy stuff
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    edited December 2016
    Moses - India only 1 of very many counties under threat of attack at the moment.

    off the top of my head there have been arrests, actual attacks or stories of heightened precautions due to islamic terror or threat thereof in recent days in the following-

    Switzerland, Belgium, USA, UK, Germany, France, China, Canada, Australia, Bangladesh and Italy

  • @GIN1138

    Christmas Truces are part of a bygone age when we were all non-EU members :)
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,976
    So, 2016 just got weirder. Trumps tweet praising Putin is surreal.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,606
    surbiton said:

    RobD said:

    surbiton said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    I hold media/Obama/Hillary's pandering to BLM responsible for the latter

    http://nypost.com/2016/12/30/number-of-cops-killed-in-line-of-duty-this-year-spikes-drastically/

    "Ambushes in Dallas and Baton Rouge, Louisiana, and other shootings around the country led to a sharp increase in the number of police killed in the line of duty this year.

    From Jan. 1 through Wednesday, 135 officers lost their lives. Some died in traffic accidents, but nearly half were shot to death. That’s a 56 percent increase in shooting deaths over the previous year.

    Of the 64 who were fatally shot, 21 were killed in ambush attacks often fueled by anger over police use of force involving minorities...

    How many unarmed blacks were killed, you right-wing zealot ?
    Oh, sorry, you were referring to people killed by police I think.

    That figure looks to be down on 2015:

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database
    Are you saying that the killings of unarmed blacks [ or, any people ] by the police is OK ?
    Are you saying that armed black people ambushing uniformed officers is ok?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Speedy said:

    In anticipation of Trump's alliance with Russia, in a trip down history Thatcher was planning an alliance with the Soviets against Germany:
    https://twitter.com/Birdyword/status/814850338742304768

    Thatcher was right, Germany is dominating Europe now and we desperately need allies against them.

    If Germany was a threat*, then perhaps vacating the field to them in June was not wise.


    *Germany is not. This is not 1939 or 1914, Germany is a free-market democracy with the rule of law and a dynamic capitalist economy. We should copy them rather than be afraid of them.
This discussion has been closed.