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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Cyclefree asks are Banks the new Unions?

SystemSystem Posts: 11,682
edited January 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Cyclefree asks are Banks the new Unions?

Back in the 1970’s unions were seen – and saw themselves – as a key constituency whom government had to listen to and consult.  Whether beer and sandwiches were actually served at Number 10 was less important than the perception and the reality that governments felt that it was wise to consult the unions on industrial matters and wider economic policy.  And this was done because of a desire to achieve consensus, to be seen as treating both sides of industry fairly, because union membership was large and strikes could cause significant economic and commercial harm.

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  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,435
    edited January 2017
    A thought provoking contribution from Miss Cyclefree, amusing it as it to be compared to a 70s trade unionist.

    PS - Apologies for the horrific typo in my email.
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,942
    Wonderful - and as timely - as ever from Ms Cyclefree. Very enlightening, thanks.

    As a view from the provinces, I'd agree entirely.
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    Out of curiosity, how much did the trade unions contribute to the government in tax revenues and how does it compare to the banking and financial services industry in 2017?

    I'm going to go out on a limb and say it wasn't the trade unions that contributed the most.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987
    Wow.

    Great post.

    For the record, good fund managers are genuinely irreplaceable.
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    Sort of on topic, this cheered me up

    https://twitter.com/ianbremmer/status/822015758104489984
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987
    Physicians perform much less well than machines.

    So, we're all stuffed.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,927
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    Out of curiosity, how much did the trade unions contribute to the government in tax revenues and how does it compare to the banking and financial services industry in 2017?

    I'm going to go out on a limb and say it wasn't the trade unions that contributed the most.

    The large banks are able to borrow almost interest free at the moment aren't they ?

    Very easy to make money with that model.
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    glwglw Posts: 9,549
    rcs1000 said:

    Physicians perform much less well than machines.

    So, we're all stuffed.
    Those figures look like a load of hot air anyway. Nobody really knows the limits of automation. All I would say is that the application of robotics, AI, machine learning and the like is going to be wide, and probably wider than most people think.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987
    Pulpstar said:

    Out of curiosity, how much did the trade unions contribute to the government in tax revenues and how does it compare to the banking and financial services industry in 2017?

    I'm going to go out on a limb and say it wasn't the trade unions that contributed the most.

    The large banks are able to borrow almost interest free at the moment aren't they ?

    Very easy to make money with that model.
    Banks make money on the spread between what they borrow and what they lend at.
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,942
    Very releived to see 'antiquarian bookseller' doesn't even make the list.

    Or maybe simply that robots wouldn't even bother with our industry! :)
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,718
    rcs1000 said:

    Physicians perform much less well than machines.

    So, we're all stuffed.
    Only 3.5% for lawyers?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Out of curiosity, how much did the trade unions contribute to the government in tax revenues and how does it compare to the banking and financial services industry in 2017?

    I'm going to go out on a limb and say it wasn't the trade unions that contributed the most.

    The large banks are able to borrow almost interest free at the moment aren't they ?

    Very easy to make money with that model.
    Banks make money on the spread between what they borrow and what they lend at.
    The money being borrowed is all QE at near zero rates though isn't it ?

    Not saver deposits.
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908
    Very interesting thread header- thanks.

    "It matters because the development of a modern society has gone hand in hand with the development of an efficient financial sector. It matters because without it much of what we want to do (save, buy a home, spend, invest, start a business, grow a business) cannot happen."

    Adair Turner's book 'Between Debt and the Devil' talks about how what economists think banks do and what they actually do are quite different. He says that banking nowadays in advanced economies is mainly just about lending to buy property - and not about helping entrepreneurs or businesses to fund capital investment.

    Makes me wonder whether we need such a large banking sector for economic growth...
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    rcs1000 said:

    Physicians perform much less well than machines.

    So, we're all stuffed.
    Physicians and surgeons are going to be augmented by machines (they already are, of course). Read a very interesting article that asserted radiographers will be the first to be displaced; computers are much better at (say) detecting tumours than humans.
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    rcs1000 said:

    Physicians perform much less well than machines.

    So, we're all stuffed.
    Only 3.5% for lawyers?
    Yeah. You can't automate the brilliance of an agile legal mind.
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    rcs1000 said:

    Physicians perform much less well than machines.

    So, we're all stuffed.
    Only 3.5% for lawyers?
    Yeah. You can't automate the brilliance of an agile legal mind.
    Though things like conveyancing are going to be prime targets. Not all of us need agile legal minds to move house :).
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    Cyclefree, what a nicely written and interesting piece! It's always pleasing to read roughly one's own vague thoughts, but expressed in a persuasive and coherent fashion. And the comparison between unions and bankers is certainly a valid, if amusing point.

    Of course, the problem (or, in their case, possible benefit) of leaving the single market doesn't stop with the banks. While their shake-up may possibly be to the good, Brexit is a hell of a blunt instrument that is also likely to cause substantial damage to other industries. It may not be so bad if the banks are weakened, but what will they take down with them?
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    Wow.

    Great post.

    For the record, good fund managers are genuinely irreplaceable.

    Sez a fund manager.
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    OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,913
    Interesting read - I agree with the main premise that the banks lost their leverage/public support after the 2008 bailouts in the same way that the unions lost theirs after the "Winter of discontent".
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987
    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Wow.

    Great post.

    For the record, good fund managers are genuinely irreplaceable.

    Sez a fund manager.
    Exactly. I know what I'm talking about.
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    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Wow.

    Great post.

    For the record, good fund managers are genuinely irreplaceable.

    Sez a fund manager.
    Exactly. I know what I'm talking about.
    Good fund managers = all five of them.
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    rcs1000 said:

    Physicians perform much less well than machines.

    So, we're all stuffed.
    Only 3.5% for lawyers?
    Yeah. You can't automate the brilliance of an agile legal mind.
    What a load of crap, easily 20% of my day could be replaced. Of course, maybe that's 3.5% of my job being ENTIRELY replaceable, rather than 3.5% of what a lawyer does...
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited January 2017
    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Wow.

    Great post.

    For the record, good fund managers are genuinely irreplaceable.

    Sez a fund manager.
    Exactly. I know what I'm talking about.
    But what makes a good fund manager? Tony Dye, for instance, was right.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    glw said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Physicians perform much less well than machines.

    So, we're all stuffed.
    Those figures look like a load of hot air anyway. Nobody really knows the limits of automation. All I would say is that the application of robotics, AI, machine learning and the like is going to be wide, and probably wider than most people think.
    Self driving cars were the Rubicon for me. It's a chaotic environment, not a production line. When I was a student - humans sat on nail varnish production lines adding ball bearings as it was beyond the machines. That seems so laughable now. I'd friends who manually made cheap soap bars. This was late 80s/early 90s in Crawley/Croydon.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    Seems to me bankers are a middle-man for the nation's debt, and fund managers for the nation's equity.
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    Such a great post. As usual, I am left green with envy at Ms. Cyclefree's free-flowing eloquence.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Well, this is depressing. Part of Palmyrene amphitheatre has been destroyed. Assad/Russia should've properly secured the site when they reclaimed it months ago.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-38689131
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    People have been saying that computer programming will become automated since the 1980s. While their is some automation, there is still no shortage of software development jobs since humans are always be needed in order to implement the automation! I'd have though that the legal profession offers far more low-hanging fruit for automation than computer programming. I'm betting that whoever complied this list doesn't understand the creativity involved in making machines do what you want them to do.
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    The view as between HSBC and UBS was that 0-20% of operations could move abroad. Those sound like the right sort of parameters.
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908
    @rcs1000

    Don't passive funds outperform active ones in the long run?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. 1000, nice video.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    People have been saying that computer programming will become automated since the 1980s. While their is some automation, there is still no shortage of software development jobs since humans are always be needed in order to implement the automation! I'd have though that the legal profession offers far more low-hanging fruit for automation than computer programming. I'm betting that whoever complied this list doesn't understand the creativity involved in making machines do what you want them to do.

    Proper deep AI learning is pushing the boundaries. I reckon the self-drive car bods should have a crack at Formula 1 next.
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    People have been saying that computer programming will become automated since the 1980s. While their is some automation, there is still no shortage of software development jobs since humans are always be needed in order to implement the automation! I'd have though that the legal profession offers far more low-hanging fruit for automation than computer programming. I'm betting that whoever complied this list doesn't understand the creativity involved in making machines do what you want them to do.

    As I've said many times before, people talk about 'the software industry' as others do 'the City'. Both are such complex and varied domains that they're essentially useless as descriptors. MDE and assorted frameworks have been around for years. In my last line of work, domain knowledge was far more important than my software engineering skills.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987
    rkrkrk said:

    @rcs1000

    Don't passive funds outperform active ones in the long run?

    The average actively managed fund will lose you about 2% a year compared to a passive one, yes. The fund manager will lose you 1% a year through their stock picks, and you'll pay an additional 1% in fees.

    So, you're basically paying up to get performance that's worse than a chimpanzee.
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    rcs1000 said:

    Physicians perform much less well than machines.

    So, we're all stuffed.
    Only 3.5% for lawyers?
    Yeah. You can't automate the brilliance of an agile legal mind.
    What a load of crap, easily 20% of my day could be replaced. Of course, maybe that's 3.5% of my job being ENTIRELY replaceable, rather than 3.5% of what a lawyer does...
    Since 2011 I've been working in house, that changes perspectives.
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    John_M said:

    People have been saying that computer programming will become automated since the 1980s. While their is some automation, there is still no shortage of software development jobs since humans are always be needed in order to implement the automation! I'd have though that the legal profession offers far more low-hanging fruit for automation than computer programming. I'm betting that whoever complied this list doesn't understand the creativity involved in making machines do what you want them to do.

    As I've said many times before, people talk about 'the software industry' as others do 'the City'. Both are such complex and varied domains that they're essentially useless as descriptors. MDE and assorted frameworks have been around for years. In my last line of work, domain knowledge was far more important than my software engineering skills.
    In the legal profession, the jobs are there, they are different. Instead of spending time doing a blackline, my PC does it. etc. etc.
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    rcs1000 said:

    Physicians perform much less well than machines.

    So, we're all stuffed.
    Only 3.5% for lawyers?
    Yeah. You can't automate the brilliance of an agile legal mind.
    What a load of crap, easily 20% of my day could be replaced. Of course, maybe that's 3.5% of my job being ENTIRELY replaceable, rather than 3.5% of what a lawyer does...
    Since 2011 I've been working in house, that changes perspectives.
    you think 0% of your job is irreplaceable?
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    But of course it's not the interests of bankers but those who bank....the savers the pensioners the local authorities etc etc as you say. The financial institutions have never been more regulated. The amount of paper generated by the simplest transaction is far more off putting than any of their reprobate behaviour of the past and I'm sure I'm not alone in resenting the attempts by unprincipled 'legal firms ' telling me how to screw money out of the banks for misselling than any amount of previous misseling from the banks.

    It's the culture of litigation and 'get-rich-quick' spivs which is the worst and I don't really blame the banks for it.

    A very interesting article though.
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    rcs1000 said:

    Physicians perform much less well than machines.

    So, we're all stuffed.
    Only 3.5% for lawyers?
    Yeah. You can't automate the brilliance of an agile legal mind.
    What a load of crap, easily 20% of my day could be replaced. Of course, maybe that's 3.5% of my job being ENTIRELY replaceable, rather than 3.5% of what a lawyer does...
    Since 2011 I've been working in house, that changes perspectives.
    you think 0% of your job is irreplaceable?
    No, but the powers that be think I'm irreplaceable
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    rcs1000 said:

    Physicians perform much less well than machines.

    So, we're all stuffed.
    Only 3.5% for lawyers?
    Yeah. You can't automate the brilliance of an agile legal mind.
    What a load of crap, easily 20% of my day could be replaced. Of course, maybe that's 3.5% of my job being ENTIRELY replaceable, rather than 3.5% of what a lawyer does...
    Since 2011 I've been working in house, that changes perspectives.
    you think 0% of your job is irreplaceable?
    Google Deepmind needs to post here more often ;)
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    Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    What's the view on the stockmarket next week? If, as expected, the SC declares a vote is needed and a bill is passed in HoC, would we expect a 'correction'? Alternatively, it's already priced in
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,970
    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Out of curiosity, how much did the trade unions contribute to the government in tax revenues and how does it compare to the banking and financial services industry in 2017?

    I'm going to go out on a limb and say it wasn't the trade unions that contributed the most.

    The large banks are able to borrow almost interest free at the moment aren't they ?

    Very easy to make money with that model.
    Banks make money on the spread between what they borrow and what they lend at.
    Exactly , a shedload for nothing
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,970

    rcs1000 said:

    Physicians perform much less well than machines.

    So, we're all stuffed.
    Only 3.5% for lawyers?
    Yeah. You can't automate the brilliance of an agile legal mind.
    What a load of crap, easily 20% of my day could be replaced. Of course, maybe that's 3.5% of my job being ENTIRELY replaceable, rather than 3.5% of what a lawyer does...
    Since 2011 I've been working in house, that changes perspectives.
    you think 0% of your job is irreplaceable?
    No, but the powers that be think I'm irreplaceable
    Keep kidding yourself , 2 weeks and they would struggle to remember your name
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited January 2017
    rcs1000 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    @rcs1000

    Don't passive funds outperform active ones in the long run?

    The average actively managed fund will lose you about 2% a year compared to a passive one, yes. The fund manager will lose you 1% a year through their stock picks, and you'll pay an additional 1% in fees.

    So, you're basically paying up to get performance that's worse than a chimpanzee.
    My fund manager has consistently delivered me about 150-200 bps outperformance against their benchmark (WM private clients). And have charged me a princely 50bps for the privilege. That's over about 10 years.
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    rcs1000 said:

    Physicians perform much less well than machines.

    So, we're all stuffed.
    Only 3.5% for lawyers?
    Yeah. You can't automate the brilliance of an agile legal mind.
    What a load of crap, easily 20% of my day could be replaced. Of course, maybe that's 3.5% of my job being ENTIRELY replaceable, rather than 3.5% of what a lawyer does...
    Since 2011 I've been working in house, that changes perspectives.
    you think 0% of your job is irreplaceable?
    No, but the powers that be think I'm irreplaceable
    I.e. if you didn't have to spend time doing the replaceable part you could spend all fo the time they pay you for doing the irreplaceable part.

    I still query therefore what the % represents.
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    Blue_rog said:

    What's the view on the stockmarket next week? If, as expected, the SC declares a vote is needed and a bill is passed in HoC, would we expect a 'correction'? Alternatively, it's already priced in

    Which stockmarket? The FTSE 100 is just sat on the other end of the see-saw from the £/$ exchange rate at the moment. Other indices are more complicated.
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    mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,140
    edited January 2017

    People have been saying that computer programming will become automated since the 1980s. While their is some automation, there is still no shortage of software development jobs since humans are always be needed in order to implement the automation! I'd have though that the legal profession offers far more low-hanging fruit for automation than computer programming. I'm betting that whoever complied this list doesn't understand the creativity involved in making machines do what you want them to do.

    And, more importantly, deciding how to ask the questions that need answering, how to interpret the answers, and how to deal with ambigious answers.

    We do a lot of ML work, and I am constantly reminded of Douglas Adams Ultimate Answer / Ultimate question. Except that the answer isn't 42. It is "there is an 80% likelihood it is 42. What do you want to do now?"

    That's why the current state of self driving cars is "There's a 90% chance that's just a reflection off the road, but given the 10% chance it is a van driving across the junction, you might like to keep your hands on the wheel."
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987
    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    @rcs1000

    Don't passive funds outperform active ones in the long run?

    The average actively managed fund will lose you about 2% a year compared to a passive one, yes. The fund manager will lose you 1% a year through their stock picks, and you'll pay an additional 1% in fees.

    So, you're basically paying up to get performance that's worse than a chimpanzee.
    My fund manager has consistently delivered me about 150-200 bps outperformance against their benchmark (WM private clients). And have charged me a princely 50bps for the privilege. That's over about 10 years.
    Your fund manager is not average.
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    edited January 2017
    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    @rcs1000

    Don't passive funds outperform active ones in the long run?

    The average actively managed fund will lose you about 2% a year compared to a passive one, yes. The fund manager will lose you 1% a year through their stock picks, and you'll pay an additional 1% in fees.

    So, you're basically paying up to get performance that's worse than a chimpanzee.
    My fund manager has consistently delivered me about 150-200 bps outperformance against their benchmark (WM private clients). And have charged me a princely 50bps for the privilege. That's over about 10 years.
    Of course fees are also going to depend on the size of your portfolio. There's quite a lot of good press about how fees on passive funds have collapsed and how fees could be brought down on active funds.

    https://www.ft.com/content/59151fe2-ad9f-11e6-9cb3-bb8207902122
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,970
    rcs1000 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    @rcs1000

    Don't passive funds outperform active ones in the long run?

    The average actively managed fund will lose you about 2% a year compared to a passive one, yes. The fund manager will lose you 1% a year through their stock picks, and you'll pay an additional 1% in fees.

    So, you're basically paying up to get performance that's worse than a chimpanzee.
    So your guidance is just go for a tracker
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    AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    Blue_rog said:

    What's the view on the stockmarket next week? If, as expected, the SC declares a vote is needed and a bill is passed in HoC, would we expect a 'correction'? Alternatively, it's already priced in

    Its strange. There are a lot of supposedly very clever people in the financial institutions, paid to think clever thoughts, not least about future risks.... and yet through out BrExit the City gives the collective impression of having fingers in ears yelling "Lalala" at the top of its voice rather than price in things which most people on here would consider odds on favourite at worst.... and then acting all surprised when the near certainties happen.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    edited January 2017
    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    @rcs1000

    Don't passive funds outperform active ones in the long run?

    The average actively managed fund will lose you about 2% a year compared to a passive one, yes. The fund manager will lose you 1% a year through their stock picks, and you'll pay an additional 1% in fees.

    So, you're basically paying up to get performance that's worse than a chimpanzee.
    My fund manager has consistently delivered me about 150-200 bps outperformance against their benchmark (WM private clients). And have charged me a princely 50bps for the privilege. That's over about 10 years.
    Your fund manager is not average.
    Alot of people don't have a choice over their pension fund managers (Need to go with their employer's choice), Aegon's active offerings didn't seem to cut much mustard hence I'm entirely in passive - except global property (5%) which didn't seem to have a passive fund.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited January 2017
    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    @rcs1000

    Don't passive funds outperform active ones in the long run?

    The average actively managed fund will lose you about 2% a year compared to a passive one, yes. The fund manager will lose you 1% a year through their stock picks, and you'll pay an additional 1% in fees.

    So, you're basically paying up to get performance that's worse than a chimpanzee.
    My fund manager has consistently delivered me about 150-200 bps outperformance against their benchmark (WM private clients). And have charged me a princely 50bps for the privilege. That's over about 10 years.
    Your fund manager is not average.
    I know.

    (But for everything else I use Vanguard trackers)

    edit: And - just to be clear - the 50bps is the TER :smiley:
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    People have been saying that computer programming will become automated since the 1980s. While their is some automation, there is still no shortage of software development jobs since humans are always be needed in order to implement the automation! I'd have though that the legal profession offers far more low-hanging fruit for automation than computer programming. I'm betting that whoever complied this list doesn't understand the creativity involved in making machines do what you want them to do.

    Ouch, what a horrible "their". I must have been meaning to write something else!
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    A late good morning all

    Nice article Cyclefree, I agree with most of it. ;)
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    rcs1000 said:

    Physicians perform much less well than machines.

    So, we're all stuffed.
    Only 3.5% for lawyers?
    Yeah. You can't automate the brilliance of an agile legal mind.
    What a load of crap, easily 20% of my day could be replaced. Of course, maybe that's 3.5% of my job being ENTIRELY replaceable, rather than 3.5% of what a lawyer does...
    Since 2011 I've been working in house, that changes perspectives.
    you think 0% of your job is irreplaceable?
    No, but the powers that be think I'm irreplaceable
    Admit it, you're basing that on overhearing someone say 'Is there no one we can get to replace TSE?'
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited January 2017
    rcs1000 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    @rcs1000

    Don't passive funds outperform active ones in the long run?

    The average actively managed fund will lose you about 2% a year compared to a passive one, yes. The fund manager will lose you 1% a year through their stock picks, and you'll pay an additional 1% in fees.

    So, you're basically paying up to get performance that's worse than a chimpanzee.

    I've handed half of my trump winnings over to a chimpanzee to manage for a few years.

    http://www.goldmansachs.com/gsam/docs/funds_international/fund_updates/monthly_fund_updates/mfu_indiaeq_en.pdf

    The passive tracker funds are (apparently) not very good in emerging markets in general and india in particular. That's the advice i've been given anyway.

    I didn't pay for that advice.
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    rcs1000 said:

    Physicians perform much less well than machines.

    So, we're all stuffed.
    Only 3.5% for lawyers?
    Yeah. You can't automate the brilliance of an agile legal mind.
    What a load of crap, easily 20% of my day could be replaced. Of course, maybe that's 3.5% of my job being ENTIRELY replaceable, rather than 3.5% of what a lawyer does...
    Since 2011 I've been working in house, that changes perspectives.
    you think 0% of your job is irreplaceable?
    No, but the powers that be think I'm irreplaceable
    Admit it, you're basing that on overhearing someone say 'Is there no one we can get to replace TSE?'
    Rumbled.
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    @rcs1000

    Don't passive funds outperform active ones in the long run?

    The average actively managed fund will lose you about 2% a year compared to a passive one, yes. The fund manager will lose you 1% a year through their stock picks, and you'll pay an additional 1% in fees.

    So, you're basically paying up to get performance that's worse than a chimpanzee.
    My fund manager has consistently delivered me about 150-200 bps outperformance against their benchmark (WM private clients). And have charged me a princely 50bps for the privilege. That's over about 10 years.
    Your fund manager is not average.
    If you have a Gaussian distribution someone has to be on the right hand end of it, and in this case it's lucky old Charles. Past performance is no guide to future performance. And of course a Madoff client could have written Charles' post in 2007.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Fox
    FLASHBACK: Ronald Reagan’s inaugural address: “We are a nation that has a government, not the other way around.” https://t.co/7uabng6MuK
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    DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    edited January 2017
    DavidL said:

    glw said:

    The "EU elite" was expecting the UK to beg to remain in the Single Market somehow. May shot that fox, and now they are feeling anger and bewilderment.

    Yes, it was very good tactics.
    It wasn't. She had no choice. If someone puts a gun to your head and says hand me your wallet and you hand them your wallet, you're not a brilliant tactician.

    The idea that she did have a choice is just propaganda pap. To its home market, any government negotiating with foreigners always wants to make itself look like the one that thumps the table and lays down the law. That's how the British government's talks inside the EU (not "with" the EU) have been reported for years: Cameron goes to Europe (where was he before?) and lays down the line to the excitable, incompetent or otherwise inferior bog dwellers abroad. This kind of extreme arrogance was a major cause of the Brexit vote.

    Single market includes freedom of movement. If a government says mmm, lovely, we're going to let as many Romanians, Bulgarians and Poles come to live in Britain as want to, even if every suburban street acquires a shanty town at one end of it, just so that British companies can flog their stuff on the continent, the government would be out on its earhole within about five minutes.

    Theresa May and her advisers have simply shown that they know that rain is wet. No cause for admiration.



  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited January 2017
    OT. I just heard an Oompah band playing followed by an American speaking loudly through a microphone. So I walked to where the sound was coming from and there was a vast crowd. My first thought was that I was in a nightmare and I'd found my way into Trump's inauguration.....

    .......the second was worse. That the good citizens of V-F-S-M had decided to ingratiate themselves with their American visitors by putting on a band and inviting several Americans in uniform to celebrate the affair.

    It turned out to be a 50th anniversary of the US sixth fleet arriving in Villefranche harbour. God knows what they were doing here in 1967....... Looking for hippies?

    http://www.usslittlerock.org/Villefranche/VsM/2017VsMReunion.html
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205
    edited January 2017

    Out of curiosity, how much did the trade unions contribute to the government in tax revenues and how does it compare to the banking and financial services industry in 2017?

    I'm going to go out on a limb and say it wasn't the trade unions that contributed the most.

    The comparison should really be not with the trade unions but with the industries where trade unionism was widespread/compulsory.

    The greater the contribution the more likely that sector - whether it is coal or banks - is to think that it is untouchable. A dangerous delusion for anyone or any sector to have. And dangerous for a government to allow that delusion to fester.

    All those politicians from Thatcher on praising the City were no different to Macmillan saying: ""There are three bodies no sensible man directly challenges: the Roman Catholic Church, the Brigade of Guards and the National Union of Mineworkers" .

    (Though it is said he never actually said it and it should be attributed to Stanley Baldwin.)

    PS Your email - that's a fantastic typo!

  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,671
    Excellent thread - though as with the Unions the question remains how do we loosen the bankers' grip on our sensitive parts....

    I'd always thought the 'cemeteries are full of the indispensable' was Clemanceau - but apparently not:

    http://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/11/21/graveyards-full/
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Interesting piece, Miss Cyclefree.

    Mr. Pulpstar, there was chatter a little time ago about a formula with self-driven cars. I think it was Heidfeld who said it'd be tedious because there'd be no element of human drama, or danger.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205

    Well, this is depressing. Part of Palmyrene amphitheatre has been destroyed. Assad/Russia should've properly secured the site when they reclaimed it months ago.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-38689131

    That is indeed very very depressing news.

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    DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    edited January 2017
    malcolmg said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    @rcs1000

    Don't passive funds outperform active ones in the long run?

    The average actively managed fund will lose you about 2% a year compared to a passive one, yes. The fund manager will lose you 1% a year through their stock picks, and you'll pay an additional 1% in fees.

    So, you're basically paying up to get performance that's worse than a chimpanzee.
    So your guidance is just go for a tracker
    That advice was a main part of what Eugene Fama was awarded a Nobel Prize for in 2013.

    Put another way, the City is Spiv Centrale.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    @rcs1000

    Don't passive funds outperform active ones in the long run?

    The average actively managed fund will lose you about 2% a year compared to a passive one, yes. The fund manager will lose you 1% a year through their stock picks, and you'll pay an additional 1% in fees.

    So, you're basically paying up to get performance that's worse than a chimpanzee.
    My fund manager has consistently delivered me about 150-200 bps outperformance against their benchmark (WM private clients). And have charged me a princely 50bps for the privilege. That's over about 10 years.
    Your fund manager is not average.
    Alot of people don't have a choice over their pension fund managers (Need to go with their employer's choice), Aegon's active offerings didn't seem to cut much mustard hence I'm entirely in passive - except global property (5%) which didn't seem to have a passive fund.
    Thanks for the tip - my employer is sending me to Aegon :disappointed:
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,292
    rcs1000 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    @rcs1000

    Don't passive funds outperform active ones in the long run?

    The average actively managed fund will lose you about 2% a year compared to a passive one, yes. The fund manager will lose you 1% a year through their stock picks, and you'll pay an additional 1% in fees.

    So, you're basically paying up to get performance that's worse than a chimpanzee.
    A week today I am attending 4 presentations by fund managers who want to actively manage a pension fund I am a trustee for. Are you saying I am wasting my time?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    Interesting piece, Miss Cyclefree.

    Mr. Pulpstar, there was chatter a little time ago about a formula with self-driven cars. I think it was Heidfeld who said it'd be tedious because there'd be no element of human drama, or danger.

    Or was worried he'd get thrashed.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Ishmael_Z said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    @rcs1000

    Don't passive funds outperform active ones in the long run?

    The average actively managed fund will lose you about 2% a year compared to a passive one, yes. The fund manager will lose you 1% a year through their stock picks, and you'll pay an additional 1% in fees.

    So, you're basically paying up to get performance that's worse than a chimpanzee.
    My fund manager has consistently delivered me about 150-200 bps outperformance against their benchmark (WM private clients). And have charged me a princely 50bps for the privilege. That's over about 10 years.
    Your fund manager is not average.
    If you have a Gaussian distribution someone has to be on the right hand end of it, and in this case it's lucky old Charles. Past performance is no guide to future performance. And of course a Madoff client could have written Charles' post in 2007.
    If they didn't do so well I wouldn't have money to lose in speculative punts of my own...
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    FPT, still relevant here...re the City and jobs. This is something I understand a fair bit about so allow me to alight on the subject a little. The big issue for years now has been costs, corporates simply want to pay less for lawyers, bankers and accountants - who can blame them? This is driving a move of back office staff to lower cost locations. Finance team moved from London, to Barcelona and thence Manilla a decade ago - I know, I used to work at Deloitte flogging these very things.

    Also technology is increasingly taking out white collar jobs, the best way to make new tech work is to open a new office, with new people to work in new ways. trying to slowly convert old people and old systems frequently fails.

    Then there is regulation, this has meant banks hiring in compliance for example and lawyer and accountants the same. These jobs create far less money and overall are a drain on the corporates - which leads to much lower profits. With lower profits comes a higher focus on cost. Also these jobs can be done from anywhere (...mostly, some compliance does need to be co-located with traders to stop abuse).

    Brexit is a cover. Goldmans would move its back office to Eastern Europe anyway. Credit Suisse has been in Warsaw for years. The Euro-trading bit is horseplay to make it sound like some actual jobs will move, doubt they will but it sounds good. Most of this was going to happen anyway but blaming Brexit is the natural catch-all for all corporates currently.

    Also the Banks would love to make their highly paid UK staff move to worse places where they can pay them less and have cheaper offices - an interesting battle to see who wins out. The Banks won the last big battle -the pay packets of Bankers are half what they were 10 yeas ago. Brexit is a good cover to try this on too.

    As for New York, huge amounts of New York jobs are being slowly moved to Charleston and North Carolina. All for the same reasons above that affect London - technology allows for a better spread of the work in lower cost locations.

    So, in short, London is going to lose a lot of jobs, often to the UK regions but also to other lower cost countries. This was going to happen anyway. London being London, other jobs will be created, probably in FIntech and Leisure - but also Hedge Funds and Asset Management where the back office needs are a bit smaller overall so the cost thing has a more marginal impact.
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    edited January 2017
    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    @rcs1000

    Don't passive funds outperform active ones in the long run?

    The average actively managed fund will lose you about 2% a year compared to a passive one, yes. The fund manager will lose you 1% a year through their stock picks, and you'll pay an additional 1% in fees.

    So, you're basically paying up to get performance that's worse than a chimpanzee.
    A week today I am attending 4 presentations by fund managers who want to actively manage a pension fund I am a trustee for. Are you saying I am wasting my time?
    You've got to find one that can deliver you better than the average, once fees are taken into account. So RCS can be more specific but I am sure the common sense advice would be to know what your passive alternative is and ensure that if you do want to go active you agree a suitable benchmark so that down the line you can review your decision.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205

    Interesting piece, Miss Cyclefree.

    Mr. Pulpstar, there was chatter a little time ago about a formula with self-driven cars. I think it was Heidfeld who said it'd be tedious because there'd be no element of human drama, or danger.

    I have a very nice car and I enjoy driving. I am a hopeless passenger and would be bored witless just sitting in a car driven by someone else. Also, practically the last time I was a passenger I was thrown at the windshield and ended up in a Nairobi hospital being operated on. It has rather ruined the passenger experience for me. I'm not really willing to trust other drivers, whether human or robot.

    Also I quite like shouting at red lights. :)

    Unlike in a train you can't read in a car. So what are you supposed to do?

  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited January 2017
    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    @rcs1000

    Don't passive funds outperform active ones in the long run?

    The average actively managed fund will lose you about 2% a year compared to a passive one, yes. The fund manager will lose you 1% a year through their stock picks, and you'll pay an additional 1% in fees.

    So, you're basically paying up to get performance that's worse than a chimpanzee.
    A week today I am attending 4 presentations by fund managers who want to actively manage a pension fund I am a trustee for. Are you saying I am wasting my time?
    No, because it checks the box on corporate governance :wink:

    (But maybe choose an asset allocator who builds a portfolio of trackers/ETFs rather than an active fund manager)
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Miss Cyclefree, when a passenger I just zone out, so it doesn't bother me.

    Mr. Pulpstar, Heidfeld was a good driver, just a shade unlucky (not unlike Hulkenberg, so far).
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205

    FPT, still relevant here...re the City and jobs. This is something I understand a fair bit about so allow me to alight on the subject a little. The big issue for years now has been costs, corporates simply want to pay less for lawyers, bankers and accountants - who can blame them? This is driving a move of back office staff to lower cost locations. Finance team moved from London, to Barcelona and thence Manilla a decade ago - I know, I used to work at Deloitte flogging these very things.

    Also technology is increasingly taking out white collar jobs, the best way to make new tech work is to open a new office, with new people to work in new ways. trying to slowly convert old people and old systems frequently fails.

    Then there is regulation, this has meant banks hiring in compliance for example and lawyer and accountants the same. These jobs create far less money and overall are a drain on the corporates - which leads to much lower profits. With lower profits comes a higher focus on cost. Also these jobs can be done from anywhere (...mostly, some compliance does need to be co-located with traders to stop abuse).

    Brexit is a cover. Goldmans would move its back office to Eastern Europe anyway. Credit Suisse has been in Warsaw for years. The Euro-trading bit is horseplay to make it sound like some actual jobs will move, doubt they will but it sounds good. Most of this was going to happen anyway but blaming Brexit is the natural catch-all for all corporates currently.

    Also the Banks would love to make their highly paid UK staff move to worse places where they can pay them less and have cheaper offices - an interesting battle to see who wins out. The Banks won the last big battle -the pay packets of Bankers are half what they were 10 yeas ago. Brexit is a good cover to try this on too.

    As for New York, huge amounts of New York jobs are being slowly moved to Charleston and North Carolina. All for the same reasons above that affect London - technology allows for a better spread of the work in lower cost locations.

    So, in short, London is going to lose a lot of jobs, often to the UK regions but also to other lower cost countries. This was going to happen anyway. London being London, other jobs will be created, probably in FIntech and Leisure - but also Hedge Funds and Asset Management where the back office needs are a bit smaller overall so the cost thing has a more marginal impact.

    That is all true. There are back offices in Cracow and in Nashville. A lot of the back offices are being put in separate service companies. The drive to cut costs and automating as much as possible are going to be IMO at least as big as important as Brexit in affecting the future of the City.

  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    Miss Cyclefree, when a passenger I just zone out, so it doesn't bother me.

    Mr. Pulpstar, Heidfeld was a good driver, just a shade unlucky (not unlike Hulkenberg, so far).

    It'd be interesting to see what a proper AI program could do round Monza compared to say Lewis Hamilton.
  • Options
    AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    Cyclefree said:

    That is all true. There are back offices in Cracow and in Nashville. A lot of the back offices are being put in separate service companies. The drive to cut costs and automating as much as possible are going to be IMO at least as big as important as Brexit in affecting the future of the City.

    I imagine a bank announcing that it is making a load of people redundant and moving its offices to Krakow because doesn't feel it is making enough money and its cutting costs, is probably worse for PR that saying the same was happening, but its was the government's fault because of BrExit.

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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Pulpstar said:

    It'd be interesting to see what a proper AI program could do round Monza compared to say Lewis Hamilton.

    Probably traffic dependent. I suspect a machine could record a faster timed lap, but might not win a race (yet)
  • Options
    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    Dromedary said:

    DavidL said:

    glw said:

    The "EU elite" was expecting the UK to beg to remain in the Single Market somehow. May shot that fox, and now they are feeling anger and bewilderment.

    Yes, it was very good tactics.
    It wasn't. She had no choice. If someone puts a gun to your head and says hand me your wallet and you hand them your wallet, you're not a brilliant tactician.

    The idea that she did have a choice is just propaganda pap. To its home market, any government negotiating with foreigners always wants to make itself look like the one that thumps the table and lays down the law. That's how the British government's talks inside the EU (not "with" the EU) have been reported for years: Cameron goes to Europe (where was he before?) and lays down the line to the excitable, incompetent or otherwise inferior bog dwellers abroad. This kind of extreme arrogance was a major cause of the Brexit vote.

    Single market includes freedom of movement. If a government says mmm, lovely, we're going to let as many Romanians, Bulgarians and Poles come to live in Britain as want to, even if every suburban street acquires a shanty town at one end of it, just so that British companies can flog their stuff on the continent, the government would be out on its earhole within about five minutes.

    Theresa May and her advisers have simply shown that they know that rain is wet. No cause for admiration.



    Corbyn hasn't cottoned on yet, though.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    F1: also, do people want to watch machines? It took great courage for Webber to pass Alonso on the outside of Eau Rouge a few years ago. A machine has no courage, only calculation.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987
    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    @rcs1000

    Don't passive funds outperform active ones in the long run?

    The average actively managed fund will lose you about 2% a year compared to a passive one, yes. The fund manager will lose you 1% a year through their stock picks, and you'll pay an additional 1% in fees.

    So, you're basically paying up to get performance that's worse than a chimpanzee.
    A week today I am attending 4 presentations by fund managers who want to actively manage a pension fund I am a trustee for. Are you saying I am wasting my time?
    Imagine you have 16 people. They all flip coins. 8 of them get heads and are the winners.

    Those 8 them flip coins, and half of them get heads.
    The remaining 4 flip again.

    Now there are two left. To what do they owe their remarkable ability to flip coins and get heads? Is it something in the wrist? Perhaps they've trained long and hard?

    Now, there are people over very long (20+ year periods) who have records where you can reasonably say "the chances of their performance all being luck are minute". But over shorter periods, chance (or more likely style bias) will be the dominant driver of portfolio.
  • Options
    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Out of curiosity, how much did the trade unions contribute to the government in tax revenues and how does it compare to the banking and financial services industry in 2017?

    I'm going to go out on a limb and say it wasn't the trade unions that contributed the most.

    The large banks are able to borrow almost interest free at the moment aren't they ?

    Very easy to make money with that model.
    Banks make money on the spread between what they borrow and what they lend at.
    My business savings account has just reduced the interest they will pay to zero.
    Soon to be my ex business savings account.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987
    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    @rcs1000

    Don't passive funds outperform active ones in the long run?

    The average actively managed fund will lose you about 2% a year compared to a passive one, yes. The fund manager will lose you 1% a year through their stock picks, and you'll pay an additional 1% in fees.

    So, you're basically paying up to get performance that's worse than a chimpanzee.
    A week today I am attending 4 presentations by fund managers who want to actively manage a pension fund I am a trustee for. Are you saying I am wasting my time?
    No, because it checks the box on corporate governance :wink:

    (But maybe choose an asset allocator who builds a portfolio of trackers/ETFs rather than an active fund manager)
    Make sure you don't pay too much for the asset allocator. And there's no such thing as "smart beta".
  • Options
    AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    Pulpstar said:

    Miss Cyclefree, when a passenger I just zone out, so it doesn't bother me.

    Mr. Pulpstar, Heidfeld was a good driver, just a shade unlucky (not unlike Hulkenberg, so far).

    It'd be interesting to see what a proper AI program could do round Monza compared to say Lewis Hamilton.
    That would seem in essence to be a traffic problem like the others. The rest of the driving, around a known track, following a well defined path, with all the relevant factors measurable in real time. On a closed system like a racing track the traffic problem could be much easier given the right support, eg: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Surface_Movement_Guidance_and_Control_System
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,997

    People have been saying that computer programming will become automated since the 1980s. While their is some automation, there is still no shortage of software development jobs since humans are always be needed in order to implement the automation! I'd have though that the legal profession offers far more low-hanging fruit for automation than computer programming. I'm betting that whoever complied this list doesn't understand the creativity involved in making machines do what you want them to do.

    Yep.

    Whenever people I know drone on about the wonders of flawless automation, I just tell them that the automation is written by people like me, and they shut up. ;)
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    Pulpstar said:

    Miss Cyclefree, when a passenger I just zone out, so it doesn't bother me.

    Mr. Pulpstar, Heidfeld was a good driver, just a shade unlucky (not unlike Hulkenberg, so far).

    It'd be interesting to see what a proper AI program could do round Monza compared to say Lewis Hamilton.
    That would seem in essence to be a traffic problem like the others. The rest of the driving, around a known track, following a well defined path, with all the relevant factors measurable in real time. On a closed system like a racing track the traffic problem could be much easier given the right support, eg: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Surface_Movement_Guidance_and_Control_System
    It'd certainly be a far simpler challenge than navigating public roads!
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,987

    Pulpstar said:

    Miss Cyclefree, when a passenger I just zone out, so it doesn't bother me.

    Mr. Pulpstar, Heidfeld was a good driver, just a shade unlucky (not unlike Hulkenberg, so far).

    It'd be interesting to see what a proper AI program could do round Monza compared to say Lewis Hamilton.
    That would seem in essence to be a traffic problem like the others. The rest of the driving, around a known track, following a well defined path, with all the relevant factors measurable in real time. On a closed system like a racing track the traffic problem could be much easier given the right support, eg: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Surface_Movement_Guidance_and_Control_System
    Agreed: one would expect that - in a few years - this would be exactly the area where a computer controlled car would easily beat the best humans. (Especially as it wouldn't have to worry about g-forces on the neck muscles.)
  • Options
    It's a curious, but I suppose quintessentially English, phenomenon, that instead of being proud of the fact that we are lucky enough to have a world-class competitive advantage in a particularly profitable industry, and pleased that it pays for a good half of the cost of the NHS, that we moan about it.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,997

    F1: also, do people want to watch machines? It took great courage for Webber to pass Alonso on the outside of Eau Rouge a few years ago. A machine has no courage, only calculation.

    It's something I'd love to see, but you're right that it would be far less compelling than seeing real, flawed humans drive.

    But from a purely technological point of view it would be fantastic. But only if you really like tech.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205

    It's a curious, but I suppose quintessentially English, phenomenon, that instead of being proud of the fact that we are lucky enough to have a world-class competitive advantage in a particularly profitable industry, and pleased that it pays for a good half of the cost of the NHS, that we moan about it.

    From my perspective - and I know it is a particular one - there has not been much to be proud about over the last decade.

    We can and should have been better than we were. It does the City no favours to give it a free pass from the requirement to apply some judgment and ask itself not just whether it can do something but whether it should.

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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,997
    Scott_P said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It'd be interesting to see what a proper AI program could do round Monza compared to say Lewis Hamilton.

    Probably traffic dependent. I suspect a machine could record a faster timed lap, but might not win a race (yet)
    On an empty track a driverless car could be programmed (not trained) to beat the best drivers using current tech. They may be able to make them do so whilst other drivers are on the track (though I doubt they'd try that at the moment for safety reasons).

    If it ever got to the state where they could, it would be interesting to see how quickly the drivers would pick up on the flaws in the programming and learn how to beat the automation. And how quickly the programmers would be able to reprogram the machines to cover those flaws.

    Until, that is, true machine learning comes in.
  • Options
    Banks who want to sell wholesale products from London to EU countries can continue to do so outside the EU as New York, Zurich and Singapore currently do.

    Unless remaining EU countries ban their companies from using London banks (illegal under WTO?), then EU compnaies will continue to acquire finance from London banks because it is the biggest and best market.

    UK Banks who want to sell retail products to personal customers in EU countries will not be able to do so from branches set up in EU countries post Brexit without either equivalence, passporting or using an EU subsidiary. However, to have any significant presence in an EU country, UK banks have found they need to acquire a local bank with a local brand name - as HSBC did when they acquired Midland Bank in the UK.

    The only significant impact on banking from moving out of the EU is if EU clearing regulators act politically and make it a reglautory requirement about where transaction clearing is done. Even so it may be done in 'the cloud' and hard to establish which geographical country the cloud resides at any moment in time. especially if blockchain technology takes off.

  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    Scott_P said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It'd be interesting to see what a proper AI program could do round Monza compared to say Lewis Hamilton.

    Probably traffic dependent. I suspect a machine could record a faster timed lap, but might not win a race (yet)
    On an empty track a driverless car could be programmed (not trained) to beat the best drivers using current tech. They may be able to make them do so whilst other drivers are on the track (though I doubt they'd try that at the moment for safety reasons).

    If it ever got to the state where they could, it would be interesting to see how quickly the drivers would pick up on the flaws in the programming and learn how to beat the automation. And how quickly the programmers would be able to reprogram the machines to cover those flaws.

    Until, that is, true machine learning comes in.
    True machine learning is already here though. I know it might seem like just a board game, but "Go" to a decent level isn't solvable simply through brute force tree analysis in the way chess is. Combine that with the progress various Cali-tech firms are making on self driving cars in real traffic which fundamentally is a harder problem to 'solve' than any F1 track and I think a fully automated F1 race winning car is eminently possible.
  • Options
    Cyclefree said:

    Interesting piece, Miss Cyclefree.

    Mr. Pulpstar, there was chatter a little time ago about a formula with self-driven cars. I think it was Heidfeld who said it'd be tedious because there'd be no element of human drama, or danger.

    I have a very nice car and I enjoy driving. I am a hopeless passenger and would be bored witless just sitting in a car driven by someone else. Also, practically the last time I was a passenger I was thrown at the windshield and ended up in a Nairobi hospital being operated on. It has rather ruined the passenger experience for me. I'm not really willing to trust other drivers, whether human or robot.

    Also I quite like shouting at red lights. :)

    Unlike in a train you can't read in a car. So what are you supposed to do?

    I prefer a car and chauffeur. All stress free of riding the train first class without having to do deal with rowdy peasants who sneak into first class
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    @rcs1000

    Don't passive funds outperform active ones in the long run?

    The average actively managed fund will lose you about 2% a year compared to a passive one, yes. The fund manager will lose you 1% a year through their stock picks, and you'll pay an additional 1% in fees.

    So, you're basically paying up to get performance that's worse than a chimpanzee.
    A week today I am attending 4 presentations by fund managers who want to actively manage a pension fund I am a trustee for. Are you saying I am wasting my time?
    No, because it checks the box on corporate governance :wink:

    (But maybe choose an asset allocator who builds a portfolio of trackers/ETFs rather than an active fund manager)
    Make sure you don't pay too much for the asset allocator. And there's no such thing as "smart beta".
    Presumably 'smart beta' equals 'alpha'.

    (Beta = overall market movement; alpha = movement away from the market average)
This discussion has been closed.