politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » In a move reminiscent of Mrs Thatcher the PM sacks Lord Heselt

System

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » In a move reminiscent of Mrs Thatcher the PM sacks Lord Heseltine for his BREXIT bill rebellion

In a key vote in the House of Lords on the Article 50 bill the government was defeated by 366 to 268 on an amendment that would give Parliament a ‘meaningful vote’ on the Brexit deal when that is resolved. Upto 20 CON peers are said to have rebelled and others were encouraged to abstain.

Read the full story here

RobD

First

CarlottaVance

Second! Like the Scottish Tories....

CarlottaVance

The danger of this is that Heseltine looks set to be portrayed as the main Tory opponent of TMay’s plans and he’ll be looked to far more for comment and criticism. His actions could also encourage MPs in pro-REMAIN seats to be less keen to support the government as the bill goes back to the Commons.

Up to a point, Lord Copper.

It could also send a message 'rebellion is not consequence free' (unlike in Labour).

May values party loyalty highly, so rebels should expect punishment.

Heseltine was always up for 'rent-a-quote' anyway, so this changes nothing.

CarlottaVance

FPT - Mrs Brown McTurnip's dilemma:

Net agree Sindyref2 should wait for Brexit Deal:
(Sindy: yes/no, Brexit; Leave/Remain)

Yes/Remain: -23
Yes/Leave: +41
No/Remain: +58
No/Leave: +63

http://www.bmgresearch.co.uk/scots-opposed-second-referendum/

Even SNP (-8) supporters don't feel that strongly with 37% against a referendum before Brexit deal is done

fitalass

Really?! 'Making a martyr of Hezza mightn’t be a smart idea'?!! Would love to have the polling recognition of Hezza on younger more Remain voters as compared to older Brexit voters in the UK....!!

Charles

CarlottaVance said:

The danger of this is that Heseltine looks set to be portrayed as the main Tory opponent of TMay’s plans and he’ll be looked to far more for comment and criticism. His actions could also encourage MPs in pro-REMAIN seats to be less keen to support the government as the bill goes back to the Commons.

Up to a point, Lord Copper.

It could also send a message 'rebellion is not consequence free' (unlike in Labour).

May values party loyalty highly, so rebels should expect punishment.

Heseltine was always up for 'rent-a-quote' anyway, so this changes nothing.

Agree. I have chatted to Michael a few times in Waitrose (he prefers purple sprouted broccoli, while I'm a traditionalist in these important matters of state) but don't know him well. But to suggest that he's some great hero for the Tory Party is just untrue. He was a senior figure in the party, perhaps didn't rise has high as he thought he should have done, but isn't respected nearly as much as the likes of Lawson or Howe.

The BBC likes him though, so he'll get plenty of airtime

MikeSmithson

Charles said:

CarlottaVance said:

The danger of this is that Heseltine looks set to be portrayed as the main Tory opponent of TMay’s plans and he’ll be looked to far more for comment and criticism. His actions could also encourage MPs in pro-REMAIN seats to be less keen to support the government as the bill goes back to the Commons.

Up to a point, Lord Copper.

It could also send a message 'rebellion is not consequence free' (unlike in Labour).

May values party loyalty highly, so rebels should expect punishment.

Heseltine was always up for 'rent-a-quote' anyway, so this changes nothing.

Agree. I have chatted to Michael a few times in Waitrose (he prefers purple sprouted broccoli, while I'm a traditionalist in these important matters of state) but don't know him well. But to suggest that he's some great hero for the Tory Party is just untrue. He was a senior figure in the party, perhaps didn't rise has high as he thought he should have done, but isn't respected nearly as much as the likes of Lawson or Howe.

The BBC likes him though, so he'll get plenty of airtime

That's a relief - Hezza shops at Waitrose

Charles

MikeSmithson said:

Charles said:

CarlottaVance said:

The danger of this is that Heseltine looks set to be portrayed as the main Tory opponent of TMay’s plans and he’ll be looked to far more for comment and criticism. His actions could also encourage MPs in pro-REMAIN seats to be less keen to support the government as the bill goes back to the Commons.

Up to a point, Lord Copper.

It could also send a message 'rebellion is not consequence free' (unlike in Labour).

May values party loyalty highly, so rebels should expect punishment.

Heseltine was always up for 'rent-a-quote' anyway, so this changes nothing.

Agree. I have chatted to Michael a few times in Waitrose (he prefers purple sprouted broccoli, while I'm a traditionalist in these important matters of state) but don't know him well. But to suggest that he's some great hero for the Tory Party is just untrue. He was a senior figure in the party, perhaps didn't rise has high as he thought he should have done, but isn't respected nearly as much as the likes of Lawson or Howe.

The BBC likes him though, so he'll get plenty of airtime

That's a relief - Hezza shops at Waitrose

Leading indicator that he's a LibDem...

(IIRC he originally ran as a National Liberal, so only 50 years behind the cutting edge of his party)

CarlottaVance

Charles said:

CarlottaVance said:

The danger of this is that Heseltine looks set to be portrayed as the main Tory opponent of TMay’s plans and he’ll be looked to far more for comment and criticism. His actions could also encourage MPs in pro-REMAIN seats to be less keen to support the government as the bill goes back to the Commons.

Up to a point, Lord Copper.

It could also send a message 'rebellion is not consequence free' (unlike in Labour).

May values party loyalty highly, so rebels should expect punishment.

Heseltine was always up for 'rent-a-quote' anyway, so this changes nothing.

Agree. I have chatted to Michael a few times in Waitrose (he prefers purple sprouted broccoli, while I'm a traditionalist in these important matters of state) but don't know him well. But to suggest that he's some great hero for the Tory Party is just untrue. He was a senior figure in the party, perhaps didn't rise has high as he thought he should have done, but isn't respected nearly as much as the likes of Lawson or Howe.

The BBC likes him though, so he'll get plenty of airtime

He also 'wielded the knife' with Thatcher - which I think is seen as more selfish than Howe - who did the real damage - but more in sorrow than in anger.

I'd forgotten, Heseltine was an early Cameroon:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/4366890.stm

I doubt Mrs May will miss him much.....

JackW

MikeSmithson said:

Charles said:

CarlottaVance said:

The danger of this is that Heseltine looks set to be portrayed as the main Tory opponent of TMay’s plans and he’ll be looked to far more for comment and criticism. His actions could also encourage MPs in pro-REMAIN seats to be less keen to support the government as the bill goes back to the Commons.

Up to a point, Lord Copper.

It could also send a message 'rebellion is not consequence free' (unlike in Labour).

May values party loyalty highly, so rebels should expect punishment.

Heseltine was always up for 'rent-a-quote' anyway, so this changes nothing.

Agree. I have chatted to Michael a few times in Waitrose (he prefers purple sprouted broccoli, while I'm a traditionalist in these important matters of state) but don't know him well. But to suggest that he's some great hero for the Tory Party is just untrue. He was a senior figure in the party, perhaps didn't rise has high as he thought he should have done, but isn't respected nearly as much as the likes of Lawson or Howe.

The BBC likes him though, so he'll get plenty of airtime

That's a relief - Hezza shops at Waitrose

To misquote Alan Clarke ....

A man who has to do his own shopping ....

And for the love of god Hezza - a man who would sell his gastronomic soul .... but for purple headed broccoli !!

JackW

Charles said:

MikeSmithson said:

Charles said:

CarlottaVance said:

The danger of this is that Heseltine looks set to be portrayed as the main Tory opponent of TMay’s plans and he’ll be looked to far more for comment and criticism. His actions could also encourage MPs in pro-REMAIN seats to be less keen to support the government as the bill goes back to the Commons.

Up to a point, Lord Copper.

It could also send a message 'rebellion is not consequence free' (unlike in Labour).

May values party loyalty highly, so rebels should expect punishment.

Heseltine was always up for 'rent-a-quote' anyway, so this changes nothing.

Agree. I have chatted to Michael a few times in Waitrose (he prefers purple sprouted broccoli, while I'm a traditionalist in these important matters of state) but don't know him well. But to suggest that he's some great hero for the Tory Party is just untrue. He was a senior figure in the party, perhaps didn't rise has high as he thought he should have done, but isn't respected nearly as much as the likes of Lawson or Howe.

The BBC likes him though, so he'll get plenty of airtime

That's a relief - Hezza shops at Waitrose

Leading indicator that he's a LibDem...

(IIRC he originally ran as a National Liberal, so only 50 years behind the cutting edge of his party)

And you shop at Waitrose too .... Clearly Charles you are a LibDem sleeper agent ..

JackW

@MikeSmithson

Hope you are fully back on the horse Mike .... ready to ride off into the PB sunset for many years to come.

Charles

JackW said:

Charles said:

MikeSmithson said:

Charles said:

CarlottaVance said:

The danger of this is that Heseltine looks set to be portrayed as the main Tory opponent of TMay’s plans and he’ll be looked to far more for comment and criticism. His actions could also encourage MPs in pro-REMAIN seats to be less keen to support the government as the bill goes back to the Commons.

Up to a point, Lord Copper.

It could also send a message 'rebellion is not consequence free' (unlike in Labour).

May values party loyalty highly, so rebels should expect punishment.

Heseltine was always up for 'rent-a-quote' anyway, so this changes nothing.

Agree. I have chatted to Michael a few times in Waitrose (he prefers purple sprouted broccoli, while I'm a traditionalist in these important matters of state) but don't know him well. But to suggest that he's some great hero for the Tory Party is just untrue. He was a senior figure in the party, perhaps didn't rise has high as he thought he should have done, but isn't respected nearly as much as the likes of Lawson or Howe.

The BBC likes him though, so he'll get plenty of airtime

That's a relief - Hezza shops at Waitrose

Leading indicator that he's a LibDem...

(IIRC he originally ran as a National Liberal, so only 50 years behind the cutting edge of his party)

And you shop at Waitrose too .... Clearly Charles you are a LibDem sleeper agent ..

Only when I'm in Belgravia, dahling

(but I've always been open that I'm a Liberal Unionist at heart)

CarlottaVance

Charles said:

MikeSmithson said:

Charles said:

CarlottaVance said:

The danger of this is that Heseltine looks set to be portrayed as the main Tory opponent of TMay’s plans and he’ll be looked to far more for comment and criticism. His actions could also encourage MPs in pro-REMAIN seats to be less keen to support the government as the bill goes back to the Commons.

Up to a point, Lord Copper.

It could also send a message 'rebellion is not consequence free' (unlike in Labour).

May values party loyalty highly, so rebels should expect punishment.

Heseltine was always up for 'rent-a-quote' anyway, so this changes nothing.

Agree. I have chatted to Michael a few times in Waitrose (he prefers purple sprouted broccoli, while I'm a traditionalist in these important matters of state) but don't know him well. But to suggest that he's some great hero for the Tory Party is just untrue. He was a senior figure in the party, perhaps didn't rise has high as he thought he should have done, but isn't respected nearly as much as the likes of Lawson or Howe.

The BBC likes him though, so he'll get plenty of airtime

That's a relief - Hezza shops at Waitrose

Leading indicator that he's a LibDem...

(IIRC he originally ran as a National Liberal, so only 50 years behind the cutting edge of his party)

I thought true Remainers shopped in the Lambeth COOP?

JackW

Charles said:

JackW said:

Charles said:

MikeSmithson said:

Charles said:

CarlottaVance said:

The danger of this is that Heseltine looks set to be portrayed as the main Tory opponent of TMay’s plans and he’ll be looked to far more for comment and criticism. His actions could also encourage MPs in pro-REMAIN seats to be less keen to support the government as the bill goes back to the Commons.

Up to a point, Lord Copper.

It could also send a message 'rebellion is not consequence free' (unlike in Labour).

May values party loyalty highly, so rebels should expect punishment.

Heseltine was always up for 'rent-a-quote' anyway, so this changes nothing.

Agree. I have chatted to Michael a few times in Waitrose (he prefers purple sprouted broccoli, while I'm a traditionalist in these important matters of state) but don't know him well. But to suggest that he's some great hero for the Tory Party is just untrue. He was a senior figure in the party, perhaps didn't rise has high as he thought he should have done, but isn't respected nearly as much as the likes of Lawson or Howe.

The BBC likes him though, so he'll get plenty of airtime

That's a relief - Hezza shops at Waitrose

Leading indicator that he's a LibDem...

(IIRC he originally ran as a National Liberal, so only 50 years behind the cutting edge of his party)

And you shop at Waitrose too .... Clearly Charles you are a LibDem sleeper agent ..

Only when I'm in Belgravia, dahling

Dangerous tendency Charles .... even in Belgravia.

CarlottaVance

JackW said:

@MikeSmithson

Hope you are fully back on the horse Mike .... ready to ride off into the PB sunset for many years to come.

Well, the queen can do it - and she's almost as old as JackW!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/06/queen-pictured-still-riding-90-without-helmet-heads-pony/

JackW

CarlottaVance said:

JackW said:

@MikeSmithson

Hope you are fully back on the horse Mike .... ready to ride off into the PB sunset for many years to come.

Well, the queen can do it - and she's almost as old as JackW!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/06/queen-pictured-still-riding-90-without-helmet-heads-pony/

I don't think OGH favours wearing a head scarf whilst riding through leafy Bedford, although the redoubtable Dowager LadyW continued to do so, whilst riding side saddle. Twas a sight to behold.

daodao

Neither defeat in the HoL derails Brexit. It is perfectly proper for Parliament (HoC/HoL) to be given the final say on any Brexit deal (but don't expect the EU to offer anything better if it is rejected) and the decent thing to reassure EU nationals who are living in the UK before A50 is invoked by giving them leave to remain in the UK long-term. If Chairman May seeks to overturn these votes, she will be seen as authoritarian and narrow-minded.

Any deal reached between EU27 and the UK is likely to mirror Arsenal's recent experience vs the German champions in its one-sidedness.

MarqueeMark

daodao said:

Neither defeat in the HoL derails Brexit. It is perfectly proper for Parliament (HoC/HoL) to be given the final say on any Brexit deal (but don't expect the EU to offer anything better if it is rejected) and the decent thing to reassure EU nationals who are living in the UK before A50 is invoked by giving them leave to remain in the UK long-term. If Chairman May seeks to overturn these votes, she will be seen as authoritarian and narrow-minded.

Any deal reached between EU27 and the UK is likely to mirror Arsenal's recent experience vs the German champions in its one-sidedness.

Arsenal shouldn't be seen as a benchmark for anything, save perhaps for those Europeans too lacking in ideas and too far past its Use By date, clearly not able to deliver the high hopes and promise it once offered....

And if May doesn't overturn these votes, she will be seen as a doormat. Both in the Lords and in Brussels. Of course she has to overturn them. Its negotiating 1.01- a part of the syllabus badly flunked by anybody professing to opine on the "right thing to do".

JohnLoony

"Making a martyr of Hezza mightn’t be a smart idea"? Martyr? He's not a martyr, he's a thought-criminal! He's a deranged psychotic Maoist who is hell-bent on extending, re-extending, and re-re-extending the 2-year Brexit timetable indefinitely, thwarting the Will of the People. He has been secretly flagrantly openly blatantly surreptitiously plotting the downfall of the May régime, in consort with his Eurasian fellow-conspirators, for the last 30 years. The fact that he brazenly flaunts his silly 1970s-style glasses proves that he is determined to impose his EU-fanaticism on the proles and to construct a Pyongyang-style superstate throughout the UK. He will not rest until he has eliminated every last fish in UK waters and collectivised every last pig and chicken in Britain's farms. He will vobulously scheme and plot against the good yeomen of England until every last country bumpkin has been crunched to oblivion under the jackboot of a Belgian bureaucrat.

Casino_Royale

"martyr"

Lol. Heseltine has been undermining Tory leaders for well over 30 years.

Casino_Royale

JackW said:

MikeSmithson said:

Charles said:

CarlottaVance said:

The danger of this is that Heseltine looks set to be portrayed as the main Tory opponent of TMay’s plans and he’ll be looked to far more for comment and criticism. His actions could also encourage MPs in pro-REMAIN seats to be less keen to support the government as the bill goes back to the Commons.

Up to a point, Lord Copper.

It could also send a message 'rebellion is not consequence free' (unlike in Labour).

May values party loyalty highly, so rebels should expect punishment.

Heseltine was always up for 'rent-a-quote' anyway, so this changes nothing.

Agree. I have chatted to Michael a few times in Waitrose (he prefers purple sprouted broccoli, while I'm a traditionalist in these important matters of state) but don't know him well. But to suggest that he's some great hero for the Tory Party is just untrue. He was a senior figure in the party, perhaps didn't rise has high as he thought he should have done, but isn't respected nearly as much as the likes of Lawson or Howe.

The BBC likes him though, so he'll get plenty of airtime

That's a relief - Hezza shops at Waitrose

To misquote Alan Clarke ....

A man who has to do his own shopping ....

And for the love of god Hezza - a man who would sell his gastronomic soul .... but for purple headed broccoli !!

They were/are both snobs.

JackW

Casino_Royale said:

JackW said:

MikeSmithson said:

Charles said:

CarlottaVance said:

The danger of this is that Heseltine looks set to be portrayed as the main Tory opponent of TMay’s plans and he’ll be looked to far more for comment and criticism. His actions could also encourage MPs in pro-REMAIN seats to be less keen to support the government as the bill goes back to the Commons.

Up to a point, Lord Copper.

It could also send a message 'rebellion is not consequence free' (unlike in Labour).

May values party loyalty highly, so rebels should expect punishment.

Heseltine was always up for 'rent-a-quote' anyway, so this changes nothing.

Agree. I have chatted to Michael a few times in Waitrose (he prefers purple sprouted broccoli, while I'm a traditionalist in these important matters of state) but don't know him well. But to suggest that he's some great hero for the Tory Party is just untrue. He was a senior figure in the party, perhaps didn't rise has high as he thought he should have done, but isn't respected nearly as much as the likes of Lawson or Howe.

The BBC likes him though, so he'll get plenty of airtime

That's a relief - Hezza shops at Waitrose

To misquote Alan Clarke ....

A man who has to do his own shopping ....

And for the love of god Hezza - a man who would sell his gastronomic soul .... but for purple headed broccoli !!

They were/are both snobs.

Alan Clarke was far too boorish and Hezza far too grand to be snobs.

AlastairMeeks

Theresa May needs her own mandate. Without one, every grandee and backbencher with an opinion will feel entitled to express it.

PlatoSaid

And we fret about turn out - this is for Mayor

LA Times
With 20 minutes until the polls close, L.A. voter turnout is at 11.45% https://t.co/J1IQ1zWlNH

AlastairMeeks

Point of detail, Alan Clark recorded the putdown about Michael Heseltine and his furniture. But it was uttered by Michael Jopling.

JohnLoony

"In a move reminiscent of Mrs Thatcher the PM sacks Lord Heseltine for his BREXIT bill rebellion"?

No! No! No! Our Great and Glorious Leader, Heroic Helmsman and Defender of Democracy, Chairman May, steadfastly protecting the people from the undemocratic shenanigans of the Maoist moaners and Remoaniac-Remaoniac-Remainiac rabble, has decisively and swiftly vapourised the arch-thought-criminal, agent of Dibdinism, before he was able to bring his destructive plans to fruition. His network of agents throughout Theresiania, including the traitors Farron, Clarke and Mandelstein, will now suffer an utter rout.

In contrast with the decisive action of Our Leader Theresa, adhering to the principles of Mayism-Mayism, the weak and vacillating indecision of Old Mother Maggie in 1986 meant that Heselcrime was able to plot, scheme and undermine the unity of the Party by pursuing petty personal plans for an unviable helicopter vanity-project way beyond the point at which it had been decisively rejected by the People's Cabinet.

Essexit

In what world does this make pro-Remain Tories less likely to back the government? This shows there are consequences for doing so and Theresa won't roll over when they rebel over a fundamental point of government policy.

RobD

AlastairMeeks said:

Theresa May needs her own mandate. Without one, every grandee and backbencher with an opinion will feel entitled to express it.

I doubt that would shut them up...

SimonStClare

Morning all.

Heseltine in the headlines for rebelling against his own female PM. Somethings never change.

DavidL

Theresa May needs to show that her party has discipline and that there are consequences for defying her. This Bill will be back in the HoL on Monday or Tuesday of next week with these amendments removed. She will not want any messing about.

Richard_Tyndall

Just sacking Heseltine was not enough. It is pretty meaningless. They should have thrown him out of the Tory Party as well.

AlastairMeeks

Essexit said:

In what world does this make pro-Remain Tories less likely to back the government? This shows there are consequences for doing so and Theresa won't roll over when they rebel over a fundamental point of government policy.

Which pro-Remain MPs who might rebel do you think have serious hopes of advancement under Theresa May? If you're never going to be favoured, rebelling is consequence free.

Sandpit

Morning all. So, catching up on the past couple of days, it looks like A50 Parliamentary ping pong is scheduled for next Monday. Between now and then it's the Budget - which, in a departure from recent years, doesn't appear to be leaking all over today's front pages.

Richard_Tyndall

AlastairMeeks said:

Theresa May needs her own mandate. Without one, every grandee and backbencher with an opinion will feel entitled to express it.

May has exactly the same mandate as every PM in history. She commands the support of a majority of the MPs in Parliament. That is the only mandate any PM has ever had.

rkrkrk

Richard_Tyndall said:

Just sacking Heseltine was not enough. It is pretty meaningless. They should have thrown him out of the Tory Party as well.

Why not throw out all the pro-remain Tories while you're at it?

Essexit

AlastairMeeks said:

Essexit said:

In what world does this make pro-Remain Tories less likely to back the government? This shows there are consequences for doing so and Theresa won't roll over when they rebel over a fundamental point of government policy.

Which pro-Remain MPs who might rebel do you think have serious hopes of advancement under Theresa May? If you're never going to be favoured, rebelling is consequence free.

Perhaps, in which case this still doesn't make them more likely to rebel.

DavidL

Sandpit said:

Morning all. So, catching up on the past couple of days, it looks like A50 Parliamentary ping pong is scheduled for next Monday. Between now and then it's the Budget - which, in a departure from recent years, doesn't appear to be leaking all over today's front pages.

Really? I was wondering if there was going to be anything in it that we have not already been told about. We were even being told the exact figure available for new free schools yesterday.

I was watching Hammond with subtitles whilst in the gym on Sunday morning. I think (hostage to fortune here) that an Osborne like surprise is extremely unlikely. Steady as she goes and dull as ditchwater. Some money to phase in business rates, some money (£1 bn has been talked about) for social care, yet another attempt to boost training and slightly lower borrowing figures than were forecast in November.

TheScreamingEagles

These are the petty and vindictive actions that I'd expect from Gordon Brown.

AlastairMeeks

Essexit said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Essexit said:

In what world does this make pro-Remain Tories less likely to back the government? This shows there are consequences for doing so and Theresa won't roll over when they rebel over a fundamental point of government policy.

Which pro-Remain MPs who might rebel do you think have serious hopes of advancement under Theresa May? If you're never going to be favoured, rebelling is consequence free.

Perhaps, in which case this still doesn't make them more likely to rebel.

Aesop's fable of the sun and the wind obviously has no takers in Downing Street.

CarlottaVance

TheScreamingEagles said:

These are the petty and vindictive actions that I'd expect from Gordon Brown.

Not Cameron?

http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2015/10/camerons-revenge-on-purdah-rebels-he-sacks-them-from-the-council-of-europe.html

ydoethur

Re Hezza, It is mildly ironic to reflect that we were having a similar discussion about Labour MPs on the last thread - and there the views of everyone were mysteriously reversed!

Frankly I think the problem is less what he did than the rather bitter personal attacks that accompanied it - May appears quite thin-skinned about such things.

A more pertinent question to my mind is why an 83-year-old with a decidedly mixed political record was acting as an adviser to the government in the first place. A way of reaching out to the tiny handful of one-nation Tories who still remember him?

MaxPB

TheScreamingEagles said:

These are the petty and vindictive actions that I'd expect from Gordon Brown.

He defied the government and has now lost his government position? How is this any kind of a surprise?

TheScreamingEagles

Richard_Tyndall said:

Just sacking Heseltine was not enough. It is pretty meaningless. They should have thrown him out of the Tory Party as well.

If over the last thirty years, we kicked out every Tory that rebelled over the EU, there'd be about six people left in the Tory party.

Sean_F

TheScreamingEagles said:

These are the petty and vindictive actions that I'd expect from Gordon Brown.

If you vote against your own side, you get removed from your post (unless your leader is in too weak a position to do so.). That's standard operating practice.

TheScreamingEagles

CarlottaVance said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

These are the petty and vindictive actions that I'd expect from Gordon Brown.

Not Cameron?

http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2015/10/camerons-revenge-on-purdah-rebels-he-sacks-them-from-the-council-of-europe.html

Because Cameron hadn't made assurances like this

https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/839249532596719616
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/839250450494996480

SquareRoot

IMHO its right that Parliament has a meaningful vote and I cannot understand why there is so much opposition to it.

ThreeQuidder

TheScreamingEagles said:

CarlottaVance said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

These are the petty and vindictive actions that I'd expect from Gordon Brown.

Not Cameron?

http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2015/10/camerons-revenge-on-purdah-rebels-he-sacks-them-from-the-council-of-europe.html

Because Cameron hadn't made assurances like this

https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/839249532596719616
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/839250450494996480

That reads as if the journo has made an unwarranted inference.

TheScreamingEagles

I agree with Henry

‪@hzeffman: Repeatedly struck by how May has alienated the kinds of moderate/centrist Tories who backed her for leader as the last grown up standing‬

‪@hzeffman: If you think about who her most supportive parliamentary faction is now, they mostly backed Leadsom for leader‬

Sean_F

AlastairMeeks said:

Essexit said:

In what world does this make pro-Remain Tories less likely to back the government? This shows there are consequences for doing so and Theresa won't roll over when they rebel over a fundamental point of government policy.

Which pro-Remain MPs who might rebel do you think have serious hopes of advancement under Theresa May? If you're never going to be favoured, rebelling is consequence free.

You might get deselected. That's one incentive to stay in line.

AlastairMeeks

Sean_F said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Essexit said:

In what world does this make pro-Remain Tories less likely to back the government? This shows there are consequences for doing so and Theresa won't roll over when they rebel over a fundamental point of government policy.

Which pro-Remain MPs who might rebel do you think have serious hopes of advancement under Theresa May? If you're never going to be favoured, rebelling is consequence free.

You might get deselected. That's one incentive to stay in line.

I'm enjoying all the kippers giving Conservative MPs lectures on party loyalty. I'd thought only George Galloway had that much brass neck, but it seems not.

DavidL

SquareRoot said:

IMHO its right that Parliament has a meaningful vote and I cannot understand why there is so much opposition to it.

Because it is simply not possible. The government has to negotiate a deal with 27 other countries and the Commission. Once they have done so we either take it or leave without a deal. Those are the options. Having Parliament saying we want to alter X or Y is completely meaningless. Changes to the deal are not in their gift or in the power of the government to deliver.

So Parliament says deal or no deal. And that's it. Which is almost certainly going to be pretty meaningless since no deal is fraught with uncertainty.

dugarbandier

AlastairMeeks said:

Essexit said:

In what world does this make pro-Remain Tories less likely to back the government? This shows there are consequences for doing so and Theresa won't roll over when they rebel over a fundamental point of government policy.

Which pro-Remain MPs who might rebel do you think have serious hopes of advancement under Theresa May? If you're never going to be favoured, rebelling is consequence free.

unless the whips have the old kompromat, of course

AlastairMeeks

https://twitter.com/eugoes/status/838164934919860225

CD13

I listened to some of the HoL debate and they were certainly more honest than the Commons. "It's our duty to save these ghastly voters from themselves. It's democracy innit?"

I've changed my mind about them. Instead of being a rest home for retired old duffers, I now think they should be abolished asap.

Luckyguy1983

Dreadful person.

Nigelb

Luckyguy1983 said:

Dreadful person.

You're going to have to narrow that down for us.

RobD

AlastairMeeks said:

twitter.com/eugoes/status/838164934919860225

A more useful article on the story - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/french-teacher-home-office-residency-application-reject-older-sick-1974-lived-a7616451.html

rkrkrk

TheScreamingEagles said:

I agree with Henry

‪@hzeffman: Repeatedly struck by how May has alienated the kinds of moderate/centrist Tories who backed her for leader as the last grown up standing‬

‪@hzeffman: If you think about who her most supportive parliamentary faction is now, they mostly backed Leadsom for leader‬

It makes sense I think. The moderates aren't going anywhere and they understand TM has been dealt a tough hand. The Leadsom supporters on the right might topple her if they don't trust her on Brexit.

ydoethur

AlastairMeeks said:

https://twitter.com/eugoes/status/838164934919860225

Does she need one? Or was this precautionary?

Nigelb

SquareRoot said:

IMHO its right that Parliament has a meaningful vote and I cannot understand why there is so much opposition to it.

Parliament has been promised a vote - the choice between what May negotiates, and no deal at all (WTO terms).
What the Lords amendment effectively tried to do was force a change in that choice to one between what May negotiates, and what the EU then might impose on us at the last moment prior to Brexit, if Parliament rejects the first deal.

There might be a principled argument for this amendment, but I'm struggling to see it. The Lib Dems in the Lords were at least honest, as they voted against the whole bill rather than just for this amendment.

AlastairMeeks

ydoethur said:

AlastairMeeks said:

https://twitter.com/eugoes/status/838164934919860225

Does she need one? Or was this precautionary?

This is an example of the bargaining chip that Theresa May is using in not guaranteeing the residency rights of EU citizens.

TheScreamingEagles

‪@pierrebri: Long-time former Paris socialist mayor Bertrand Delanoë says he supports Macron. First socialist bigwig to do so.‬

RobD

AlastairMeeks said:

ydoethur said:

AlastairMeeks said:

twitter.com/eugoes/status/838164934919860225

Does she need one? Or was this precautionary?

This is an example of the bargaining chip that Theresa May is using in not guaranteeing the residency rights of EU citizens.

And I am sure there are examples in the EU too.

Bojabob

Would the grown ups in the Tory and Labour parties please step forward and create a government of national unity? I think most thinking people have had enough of Corbyn, May and their nasty brand of factional playground politics.

RobD

Bojabob said:

Would the grown ups in the Tory and Labour parties please step forward and create a government of national unity? I think most thinking people have had enough of Corbyn, May and their nasty brand of factional playground politics.

Any polling on that, or just a hunch?

ydoethur

AlastairMeeks said:

ydoethur said:

AlastairMeeks said:

https://twitter.com/eugoes/status/838164934919860225

Does she need one? Or was this precautionary?

This is an example of the bargaining chip that Theresa May is using in not guaranteeing the residency rights of EU citizens.

Well, I was wondering how this works - because surely EU citizens don't need to apply. So why would she be refused it for having no health insurance? Why not just be told she's not eligible to apply because as a French citizen she can live here anyway?

EDIT - sudden thought she might need it to access the NHS. In which case I agree that's unacceptable for someone whose taxes have funded it for 43 years, but it's also a function of the flawed model of the NHS. If it was based on NI contributions she would be fine.

Nigelb

AlastairMeeks said:

https://twitter.com/eugoes/status/838164934919860225

Another example of what is a pretty horrible system. No doubt the usual suspects will hand wave this away.

DavidL

ydoethur said:

AlastairMeeks said:

https://twitter.com/eugoes/status/838164934919860225

Does she need one? Or was this precautionary?

No she doesn't and she has unlimited, free access to the NHS at the moment. But it is right that the uncertainty surrounding EU nationals in the UK before the relevant date (whatever that date is determined to be) should be removed. I am sure UK nationals living in Spain feel exactly the same.

Nigelb

ydoethur said:

AlastairMeeks said:

ydoethur said:

AlastairMeeks said:

https://twitter.com/eugoes/status/838164934919860225

Does she need one? Or was this precautionary?

This is an example of the bargaining chip that Theresa May is using in not guaranteeing the residency rights of EU citizens.

Well, I was wondering how this works - because surely EU citizens don't need to apply. So why would she be refused it for having no health insurance? Why not just be told she's not eligible to apply because as a French citizen she can live here anyway?

For now.
HMG is reserving the right to deport her after Brexit.

View_From_Cumbria

JackW said:

MikeSmithson said:

Charles said:

CarlottaVance said:

The danger of this is that Heseltine looks set to be portrayed as the main Tory opponent of TMay’s plans and he’ll be looked to far more for comment and criticism. His actions could also encourage MPs in pro-REMAIN seats to be less keen to support the government as the bill goes back to the Commons.

Up to a point, Lord Copper.

It could also send a message 'rebellion is not consequence free' (unlike in Labour).

May values party loyalty highly, so rebels should expect punishment.

Heseltine was always up for 'rent-a-quote' anyway, so this changes nothing.

Agree. I have chatted to Michael a few times in Waitrose (he prefers purple sprouted broccoli, while I'm a traditionalist in these important matters of state) but don't know him well. But to suggest that he's some great hero for the Tory Party is just untrue. He was a senior figure in the party, perhaps didn't rise has high as he thought he should have done, but isn't respected nearly as much as the likes of Lawson or Howe.

The BBC likes him though, so he'll get plenty of airtime

That's a relief - Hezza shops at Waitrose

To misquote Alan Clarke ....

A man who has to do his own shopping ....

And for the love of god Hezza - a man who would sell his gastronomic soul .... but for purple headed broccoli !!

Actually it is now Lord Michael Jopling being quoted by Alan Clarke "A man who had to buy his furniture"

RobD

Apparently permanent residency is automatic after five years for EEA/EU citizens:

https://www.gov.uk/eea-registration-certificate/permanent-residence

AlastairMeeks

ydoethur said:

AlastairMeeks said:

ydoethur said:

AlastairMeeks said:

https://twitter.com/eugoes/status/838164934919860225

Does she need one? Or was this precautionary?

This is an example of the bargaining chip that Theresa May is using in not guaranteeing the residency rights of EU citizens.

Well, I was wondering how this works - because surely EU citizens don't need to apply. So why would she be refused it for having no health insurance? Why not just be told she's not eligible to apply because as a French citizen she can live here anyway?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39014191

Sandpit

DavidL said:

Sandpit said:

Morning all. So, catching up on the past couple of days, it looks like A50 Parliamentary ping pong is scheduled for next Monday. Between now and then it's the Budget - which, in a departure from recent years, doesn't appear to be leaking all over today's front pages.

Really? I was wondering if there was going to be anything in it that we have not already been told about. We were even being told the exact figure available for new free schools yesterday.

I was watching Hammond with subtitles whilst in the gym on Sunday morning. I think (hostage to fortune here) that an Osborne like surprise is extremely unlikely. Steady as she goes and dull as ditchwater. Some money to phase in business rates, some money (£1 bn has been talked about) for social care, yet another attempt to boost training and slightly lower borrowing figures than were forecast in November.

Maybe I'm missing something, watching from afar, but ISTR that under Darling and Osborne the whole damn budget ended up on the front pages on the Wednesday. The only one I can see today is "Hammond Warns of Tax Rise" in the Telegraph, which seems to be opinion and extrapolation more than leaks from No. 11. I guess we'll all know around five hours from now!

DavidL

Sandpit said:

DavidL said:

Sandpit said:

Morning all. So, catching up on the past couple of days, it looks like A50 Parliamentary ping pong is scheduled for next Monday. Between now and then it's the Budget - which, in a departure from recent years, doesn't appear to be leaking all over today's front pages.

Really? I was wondering if there was going to be anything in it that we have not already been told about. We were even being told the exact figure available for new free schools yesterday.

I was watching Hammond with subtitles whilst in the gym on Sunday morning. I think (hostage to fortune here) that an Osborne like surprise is extremely unlikely. Steady as she goes and dull as ditchwater. Some money to phase in business rates, some money (£1 bn has been talked about) for social care, yet another attempt to boost training and slightly lower borrowing figures than were forecast in November.

Maybe I'm missing something, watching from afar, but ISTR that under Darling and Osborne the whole damn budget ended up on the front pages on the Wednesday. The only one I can see today is "Hammond Warns of Tax Rise" in the Telegraph, which seems to be opinion and extrapolation more than leaks from No. 11. I guess we'll all know around five hours from now!

Well, if you want a summary: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39196579

RobD

AlastairMeeks said:

ydoethur said:

AlastairMeeks said:

ydoethur said:

AlastairMeeks said:

https://twitter.com/eugoes/status/838164934919860225

Does she need one? Or was this precautionary?

This is an example of the bargaining chip that Theresa May is using in not guaranteeing the residency rights of EU citizens.

Well, I was wondering how this works - because surely EU citizens don't need to apply. So why would she be refused it for having no health insurance? Why not just be told she's not eligible to apply because as a French citizen she can live here anyway?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39014191

Yeah, comprehensive medical coverage is required for students and self-sufficient people:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/506058/EEA_PR__guide-to-supporting-documents_v1_3_2015-12-04_KP.pdf (page 8)

ThreeQuidder

ydoethur said:

AlastairMeeks said:

ydoethur said:

AlastairMeeks said:

https://twitter.com/eugoes/status/838164934919860225

Does she need one? Or was this precautionary?

This is an example of the bargaining chip that Theresa May is using in not guaranteeing the residency rights of EU citizens.

Well, I was wondering how this works - because surely EU citizens don't need to apply. So why would she be refused it for having no health insurance? Why not just be told she's not eligible to apply because as a French citizen she can live here anyway?

It's talking about this: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/apply-for-a-document-certifying-permanent-residence-or-permanent-residence-card-form-eea-pr

The process is ridiculously unwieldy and needs to be simplified. Sadly, Merkel is holding up that process.

ydoethur

AlastairMeeks said:

ydoethur said:

AlastairMeeks said:

ydoethur said:

AlastairMeeks said:

https://twitter.com/eugoes/status/838164934919860225

Does she need one? Or was this precautionary?

This is an example of the bargaining chip that Theresa May is using in not guaranteeing the residency rights of EU citizens.

Well, I was wondering how this works - because surely EU citizens don't need to apply. So why would she be refused it for having no health insurance? Why not just be told she's not eligible to apply because as a French citizen she can live here anyway?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39014191

Thanks Alistair.

Yes, I agree that is not good enough. Somebody dropped the ball there. Theresa May will doubtless do a Gordon and blame the idiot who was in charge of the Home Office at the time.

Oh...

Bojabob

Rob

I need to find a pollster that cross tabs by intelligence level. I suspect a majority of educated people are against the Chuckle Twins - Jeremy May and Theresa Corbyn.

ydoethur

RobD said:

AlastairMeeks said:

ydoethur said:

AlastairMeeks said:

ydoethur said:

AlastairMeeks said:

https://twitter.com/eugoes/status/838164934919860225

Does she need one? Or was this precautionary?

This is an example of the bargaining chip that Theresa May is using in not guaranteeing the residency rights of EU citizens.

Well, I was wondering how this works - because surely EU citizens don't need to apply. So why would she be refused it for having no health insurance? Why not just be told she's not eligible to apply because as a French citizen she can live here anyway?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39014191

Yeah, comprehensive medical coverage is required for students and self-sufficient people:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/506058/EEA_PR__guide-to-supporting-documents_v1_3_2015-12-04_KP.pdf (page 8)

Well, if she's been working all that time she should have been exempted from that requirement on the grounds of common sense and fairness.

Mind you, from bitter experience I know that governments are wedded to their systems and get extremely nasty with those people who point out that they don't actually cover individual cases where some common sense would apply. Partly I think it's that civil servants are not very bright and also cowardly about taking responsibility, but it probably doesn't help that parliamentary draftsmen also have the literary talent of a William Topaz MacGonagall.

Scott_P

@BBCNormanS: Hearing rumours PM wants whip removed from Tory rebels who vote against govt over Brexit.

GeoffM

RobD said:

AlastairMeeks said:

ydoethur said:

AlastairMeeks said:

ydoethur said:

AlastairMeeks said:

https://twitter.com/eugoes/status/838164934919860225

Does she need one? Or was this precautionary?

This is an example of the bargaining chip that Theresa May is using in not guaranteeing the residency rights of EU citizens.

Well, I was wondering how this works - because surely EU citizens don't need to apply. So why would she be refused it for having no health insurance? Why not just be told she's not eligible to apply because as a French citizen she can live here anyway?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39014191

Yeah, comprehensive medical coverage is required for students and self-sufficient people:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/506058/EEA_PR__guide-to-supporting-documents_v1_3_2015-12-04_KP.pdf (page 8)

Isn't being self-sufficient in health insurance wrapped up in the 'students and "self-sufficient"' bit?

Apologies - I have no experience in this area but that seemed to jump out as logical.

Hertsmere_Pubgoer

TheScreamingEagles said:

These are the petty and vindictive actions that I'd expect from Gordon Brown.

Or George Osborne

SouthamObserver

DavidL said:

Theresa May needs to show that her party has discipline and that there are consequences for defying her. This Bill will be back in the HoL on Monday or Tuesday of next week with these amendments removed. She will not want any messing about.

I think she may be best off just getting rid of Parliament. It is surely the will of the people. Looking at the power the executive will get as a result of the Great Repeal Bill that does seem to be the longer term plan.

ydoethur

Scott_P said:

@BBCNormanS: Hearing rumours PM wants whip removed from Tory rebels who vote against govt over Brexit.

Does this mean she IS planning an election? After all, that would rob her of her majority.

Charles

Casino_Royale said:

JackW said:

MikeSmithson said:

Charles said:

CarlottaVance said:

The danger of this is that Heseltine looks set to be portrayed as the main Tory opponent of TMay’s plans and he’ll be looked to far more for comment and criticism. His actions could also encourage MPs in pro-REMAIN seats to be less keen to support the government as the bill goes back to the Commons.

Up to a point, Lord Copper.

It could also send a message 'rebellion is not consequence free' (unlike in Labour).

May values party loyalty highly, so rebels should expect punishment.

Heseltine was always up for 'rent-a-quote' anyway, so this changes nothing.

Agree. I have chatted to Michael a few times in Waitrose (he prefers purple sprouted broccoli, while I'm a traditionalist in these important matters of state) but don't know him well. But to suggest that he's some great hero for the Tory Party is just untrue. He was a senior figure in the party, perhaps didn't rise has high as he thought he should have done, but isn't respected nearly as much as the likes of Lawson or Howe.

The BBC likes him though, so he'll get plenty of airtime

That's a relief - Hezza shops at Waitrose

To misquote Alan Clarke ....

A man who has to do his own shopping ....

And for the love of god Hezza - a man who would sell his gastronomic soul .... but for purple headed broccoli !!

They were/are both snobs.

And, anyway, it is to misquote Michael Jopling. I'm surprised at @JackW - he's old enough to have been spanked by Jopling on more than one occasion

RobD

ydoethur said:

RobD said:

AlastairMeeks said:

ydoethur said:

AlastairMeeks said:

ydoethur said:

AlastairMeeks said:

https://twitter.com/eugoes/status/838164934919860225

Does she need one? Or was this precautionary?

This is an example of the bargaining chip that Theresa May is using in not guaranteeing the residency rights of EU citizens.

Well, I was wondering how this works - because surely EU citizens don't need to apply. So why would she be refused it for having no health insurance? Why not just be told she's not eligible to apply because as a French citizen she can live here anyway?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39014191

Yeah, comprehensive medical coverage is required for students and self-sufficient people:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/506058/EEA_PR__guide-to-supporting-documents_v1_3_2015-12-04_KP.pdf (page 8)

Well, if she's been working all that time she should have been exempted from that requirement on the grounds of common sense and fairness.

Mind you, from bitter experience I know that governments are wedded to their systems and get extremely nasty with those people who point out that they don't actually cover individual cases where some common sense would apply. Partly I think it's that civil servants are not very bright and also cowardly about taking responsibility, but it probably doesn't help that parliamentary draftsmen also have the literary talent of a William Topaz MacGonagall.

The requirement is strange - it says you need health insurance but the NHS says people that are 'ordinarily resident' in the UK aren't charged. I think you can be ordinarily resident without being a permanent resident.

SouthamObserver

DavidL said:

ydoethur said:

AlastairMeeks said:

https://twitter.com/eugoes/status/838164934919860225

Does she need one? Or was this precautionary?

No she doesn't and she has unlimited, free access to the NHS at the moment. But it is right that the uncertainty surrounding EU nationals in the UK before the relevant date (whatever that date is determined to be) should be removed. I am sure UK nationals living in Spain feel exactly the same.

The fact that the Spanish might treat Brits vindictively does not mean that the British government is obliged to do the same to EU nationals in the UK.

Scott_P

ydoethur said:

Does this mean she IS planning an election? After all, that would rob her of her majority.

It's certainly what Sir Humphrey might describe as "a bold move"

Ishmael_Z

View_From_Cumbria said:

JackW said:

MikeSmithson said:

Charles said:

CarlottaVance said:

The danger of this is that Heseltine looks set to be portrayed as the main Tory opponent of TMay’s plans and he’ll be looked to far more for comment and criticism. His actions could also encourage MPs in pro-REMAIN seats to be less keen to support the government as the bill goes back to the Commons.

Up to a point, Lord Copper.

It could also send a message 'rebellion is not consequence free' (unlike in Labour).

May values party loyalty highly, so rebels should expect punishment.

Heseltine was always up for 'rent-a-quote' anyway, so this changes nothing.

Agree. I have chatted to Michael a few times in Waitrose (he prefers purple sprouted broccoli, while I'm a traditionalist in these important matters of state) but don't know him well. But to suggest that he's some great hero for the Tory Party is just untrue. He was a senior figure in the party, perhaps didn't rise has high as he thought he should have done, but isn't respected nearly as much as the likes of Lawson or Howe.

The BBC likes him though, so he'll get plenty of airtime

That's a relief - Hezza shops at Waitrose

To misquote Alan Clarke ....

A man who has to do his own shopping ....

And for the love of god Hezza - a man who would sell his gastronomic soul .... but for purple headed broccoli !!

Actually it is now Lord Michael Jopling being quoted by Alan Clarke "A man who had to buy his furniture"

Michael, Lord Jopling, please. And purple sprouting broccoli is the second most delicious vegetable after globe artichokes, it is by no means just a colour variation.

dr_spyn

Cue for search of archives.

https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/839383885515456512

RobD

Scott_P said:

ydoethur said:

Does this mean she IS planning an election? After all, that would rob her of her majority.

It's certainly what Sir Humphrey might describe as "a bold move"

Think of it as a four line whip. Whether she'll go through with it is another matter. Still don't see an early election happening.

SouthamObserver

ydoethur said:

Scott_P said:

@BBCNormanS: Hearing rumours PM wants whip removed from Tory rebels who vote against govt over Brexit.

Does this mean she IS planning an election? After all, that would rob her of her majority.

You'd have thought that Tory MPs who have had the whip removed would be less likely to back an early election. They may also feel more inclined to vote against boundary changes.

Scott_P

@PickardJE: Heseltine is asked how May can negotiate with EU if she has divided Parliament behind her: "She has divided country behind her," he replies.

Scott_P

@BBCNormanS: Lord Heseltine message to Tory Brexit rebels - "Sometimes in life u have to do what u believe is right" @BBCr4today

dr_spyn

Scott_P said:

ydoethur said:

Does this mean she IS planning an election? After all, that would rob her of her majority.

It's certainly what Sir Humphrey might describe as "a bold move"

But if it is a 'courageous' decision...she'll lose the election.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ik8JT2S-kBE

View_From_Cumbria

I stand corrected.

If Michael, Lord Jopling of Ainderby Quernhow is reading this he will be amazed as to how many mentions he has got on PB this morning compared to his uber-proletarian Successor, Fart Minor.

Which way has Joppers been voting on the Brexit Bill ? He used to be very pro-Heseltine and pro-EEC

CarlottaVance

Michael Heseltine has done the lot, other than being Prime Minister and being fired. That is until today when he has finally been appointed Prime Minister. No, scrap that. Hezza has been fired, for the first time in his career, aged 83.

And.....

Incidentally, if stopping Brexit is not the purpose of the amendments being put down by Peers then why are most of the people involved in this initiative people who say they want to stop Brexit, that is after they have mumbled something vague about accepting the result?

https://reaction.life/hezza-fired-last-aged-83/

Morris_Dancer

Good morning, everyone.

Quite surprised by this. It's certainly an interesting move by a PM some have previously criticised for being cautious or deliberating too long.

Which may mean it's something she's considered for a while.

JohnLoony

dr_spyn said:

Cue for search of archives.

https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/839383885515456512

How on Earth is anybody supposed to take that seriously? Of course he has met her. Apart from anything else, they overlapped as MPs for 4 years.