Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » As we edge towards the enactment of the A50 Bill Nicola has ju

SystemSystem Posts: 11,683
edited March 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » As we edge towards the enactment of the A50 Bill Nicola has just made Theresa’s task harder

TMay’s reaction to Sturgeon’s InyRef2 announcement was that the Scottish FM and SNP leader was “playing politics” – a term I generally conclude to mean that what’s been said has been highly effective.

Read the full story here


«13456

Comments

  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,306
    First?
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    Or - playing politics means the other person looks like an opportunistic little shit.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    Can we please now just get into the post-Article 50 phase of politics? There's serious work to be done.
  • Options
    BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113
    Striking lack of rejoicing from the PB Tory Leavers on here tonight.

    You won. You won it all. What's up?
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,306

    Can we please now just get into the post-Article 50 phase of politics? There's serious work to be done.

    Agreed. I hope there is no further delays in serving the article 50 notice.
  • Options
    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,978

    Or - playing politics means the other person looks like an opportunistic little shit.

    The accusation 'playing politics' always seems to me to have an air of desperation about it. They're politicians: politics is what they do ...
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,007
    The UK has a population of 65 million, Scotland has a population of 5 million, although losing Scotland would not be something I want, going from 65 to 60 million is hardly creating 'a much smaller UK'. Indeed given the EU has a population of 500 million losing 60 million when the UK goes will make the EU smaller as a percentage than the UK will be were Scotland to go
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125

    Striking lack of rejoicing from the PB Tory Leavers on here tonight.

    You won. You won it all. What's up?

    When we've served Article 50, we'll party like it's 1999.
  • Options
    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    Or - playing politics means the other person looks like an opportunistic little shit.

    It means they've put you in a pickle which is what Nicoal has done. Why the disparaging language? This is politics about real issues that will impact on millions of lives.





  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,817
    edited March 2017
    Off Topic:

    Happy birthday to Sandy.

    On Topic:

    Those of us who voted to LEAVE will have to own it. For good or bad.

    As far as Scotland is concerned it seems to me they've been on an inexorable and inevitable path to independence for the past 30 years. Yes, Brexit may speed this up a bit but the Union was doomed long before anybody voted to leave the EU.

    Bottom line, the Scots don't really want to stay and the English and Welsh are "50/50" at best on whether to Scots remain or leave. Not a sustainable situation in which a country can thrive.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    SeanT said:

    Ganesh is right tho. Joxit 2.0 is a gun to TMay's head.

    She might have to go for a considerably softer Brexit.

    how ?

    May can quite happily say we had a referendum to last a generation

    There is no appetite for Indyref2 and if the SNP want one they can resign and call an election
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    SeanT said:

    Ganesh is right tho. Joxit 2.0 is a gun to TMay's head.

    She might have to go for a considerably softer Brexit.

    Why? Nothing will EVER satisfy the SNP. Just ignore them for now - and do what is right for Britain. Then sell that deal in IndyRef2.
  • Options
    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351
    Mr Bromptonaut,

    Gentlemen never gloat. Nor do Ladies
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    SeanT said:

    Ganesh is right tho. Joxit 2.0 is a gun to TMay's head.

    She might have to go for a considerably softer Brexit.

    Why? Nothing will EVER satisfy the SNP. Just ignore them for now - and do what is right for Britain. Then sell that deal in IndyRef2.
    correct

    tell them to jock off

    no reason why the rest of us have to put up with their shit, they dont even speak for the majority of Scots
  • Options

    Striking lack of rejoicing from the PB Tory Leavers on here tonight.

    You won. You won it all. What's up?

    As a remain voter I am delighted the will of the people has been fulfilled tonight.

    The process can now begin and lets start being positive and getting behind the PM.

    The remain and leave sides need to stop fighting the referendum. Tonight ended that
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    Striking lack of rejoicing from the PB Tory Leavers on here tonight.

    You won. You won it all. What's up?

    The next bottle of champagne isn't being opened until A50 is actually invoked.

    Then its Party Time again!
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    edited March 2017

    Or - playing politics means the other person looks like an opportunistic little shit.

    It means they've put you in a pickle which is what Nicoal has done. Why the disparaging language? This is politics about real issues that will impact on millions of lives.
    It's no more of a pickle than if Remain had won the Referendum. The SNP were always going to go for IndyRef2 - it's just the reasons would have had to be more creative.

    The SNP can't bring down the Govt. They are a bunch of impotents, waving what passes for their willies.
  • Options
    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223

    Striking lack of rejoicing from the PB Tory Leavers on here tonight.

    You won. You won it all. What's up?

    I'm delighted. Would you like me to do a dance?
  • Options
    BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113
    CD13 said:

    Mr Bromptonaut,

    Gentlemen never gloat. Nor do Ladies

    I'm not gloating. What do I have to gloat about?
  • Options
    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,203
    Well, it looks like we're going to get the Brexit we deserve. I suspect it'll be brown rather than red, white and blue.

    And all that moron Boris is on about is getting a new yacht for Madge.

    Hey ho, I will set out my stall here by saying I'll be touting for Sindy2. Bring it on. Take back control Scotland.
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Why assume that the SNP/Yes side will win?

    They were not even close last time. They lost by eleven points. They are absolutely miles behind in the polls with all the prime voter groups at the moment.

    The only reason we are listening to the interminable neverendum agenda of Sturgeon is that the unionist vote has been fractured in the 2015 election in particular, but slightly less so in 2016.

    It's about unionist collaboration and co-operation now.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,007
    SeanT said:

    Ganesh is right tho. Joxit 2.0 is a gun to TMay's head.

    She might have to go for a considerably softer Brexit.

    She will go for what she was always intending to ie a job offer requirement, bilateral agreements and some limited continuing EU budget contributions, if even that is not enough for the Scots I expect most English and Welsh voters will even pack their bags for them on their way out!
  • Options
    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    PB Brain Trust - The Lord’s amendments defeated in the HOC, so what happens now, do they go back to the Lords for further revision, or is the PM able to activate A50 as things stand?
  • Options
    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,203

    SeanT said:

    Ganesh is right tho. Joxit 2.0 is a gun to TMay's head.

    She might have to go for a considerably softer Brexit.

    Why? Nothing will EVER satisfy the SNP. Just ignore them for now - and do what is right for Britain. Then sell that deal in IndyRef2.
    correct

    tell them to jock off

    no reason why the rest of us have to put up with their shit, they dont even speak for the majority of Scots
    Irony deficit alert, no?
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,304
    SeanT said:

    The House of Commons has just voted to deny the British people any further say over Brexit.

    I'm genuinely and literally unsure I have the energy for this any more. Brexit. Joxit. Fuxit. Indyref. TRUMP.

    There's just been too much politics. I'm tired of arguing. It's gonna be the same Brexit arguments for the next two years, and exactly the same indyref arguments for the next three/four years.

    As FF43 says, will anyone change their minds? In Scotland? In the UK?

    If there is one thing that would make me regret my Brexit vote it is the arse-aching, scrotum-numbing tedium of it all. And the waste of time and energy.

    I am close to taking a vow of silence. I have books to write, daughters to raise, money to make, women to chase, fruitlessly or otherwise. I may retreat to the personal. Enuff.
    And the great news for you is that you can afford not to give a fuck. Lucky you.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    SeanT said:

    Ganesh is right tho. Joxit 2.0 is a gun to TMay's head.

    She might have to go for a considerably softer Brexit.

    Why? Nothing will EVER satisfy the SNP. Just ignore them for now - and do what is right for Britain. Then sell that deal in IndyRef2.
    correct

    tell them to jock off

    no reason why the rest of us have to put up with their shit, they dont even speak for the majority of Scots
    Irony deficit alert, no?
    no
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,759

    SeanT said:

    Ganesh is right tho. Joxit 2.0 is a gun to TMay's head.

    She might have to go for a considerably softer Brexit.

    Why? Nothing will EVER satisfy the SNP. Just ignore them for now - and do what is right for Britain. Then sell that deal in IndyRef2.
    correct

    tell them to jock off

    no reason why the rest of us have to put up with their shit, they dont even speak for the majority of Scots
    But you are forgetting the also pro-indy Greens. SNP + Greens = a majority of Scottish seats in both Parliaments, and IIRC votes too.

    Anyway, even if you are back to your usual form (!), I hope you and all the old regulars from the last time are well.

  • Options
    BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113
    GIN1138 said:

    Off Topic:

    Happy birthday to Sandy.

    On Topic:

    Those of us who voted to LEAVE will have to own it. For good or bad.

    As far as Scotland is concerned it seems to me they've been on an inexorable and inevitable path to independence for the past 30 years. Yes, Brexit may speed this up a bit but the Union was doomed long before anybody voted to leave the EU.

    Bottom line, the Scots don't really want to stay and the English and Welsh are "50/50" at best on whether to Scots remain or leave.

    As with the prospect of the closure of Vauxhall's plants in England, we hear the persistent whine of the 'it would have happened anyway' klaxon.

    Nothing to do with Brexit. No sirree.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    SeanT said:

    Do we want the UK to break up? No. It would, for a start, be economically calamitous for Scotland right now, there's no two ways about it. And Scots are my fellow citizens, my daughter is quarter Scots, I don't want them to be foreigners, nor do I want them impoverished.

    Your vote enabled it.

    You won, remember?
  • Options
    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351
    If the Scots vote for independence from the UK and rejoin the EU, it will be at great cost to them. We could build a glass wall across the border so we can watch them in their EU prison uniforms begging for crusts.

    For the sake of Auld Lang Syne, I'd throw then a few Euros.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Ganesh is right tho. Joxit 2.0 is a gun to TMay's head.

    She might have to go for a considerably softer Brexit.

    Why? Nothing will EVER satisfy the SNP. Just ignore them for now - and do what is right for Britain. Then sell that deal in IndyRef2.
    Well, she'll have to ignore them for now, but she can't deny them a vote forever. The very utmost she can do is make Sturgeon get an indyref2 mandate at the next Holyrood election.

    Do we want the UK to break up? No. It would, for a start, be economically calamitous for Scotland right now, there's no two ways about it. And Scots are my fellow citizens, my daughter is quarter Scots, I don't want them to be foreigners, nor do I want them impoverished.

    Why not go for a softer Brexit? It's what the majority of the country would prefer, Remainers and Liberal Leavers, and it is likely to keep the country together.

    Hey ho. This is exhausting.
    oh quit flapping

    have you seen how bad scotlands finances are three years on from 2014 ?

    the germans wont want them, the scots wont want to take the pain and the english are stupid enough to keep paying
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Will England ever see a vaguely left wing government again if the Scots go?
  • Options
    BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113
    Scott_P said:

    SeanT said:

    Do we want the UK to break up? No. It would, for a start, be economically calamitous for Scotland right now, there's no two ways about it. And Scots are my fellow citizens, my daughter is quarter Scots, I don't want them to be foreigners, nor do I want them impoverished.

    Your vote enabled it.

    You won, remember?
    Rejoice. Come on. Rejoice.

  • Options
    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Ganesh is right tho. Joxit 2.0 is a gun to TMay's head.

    She might have to go for a considerably softer Brexit.

    Why? Nothing will EVER satisfy the SNP. Just ignore them for now - and do what is right for Britain. Then sell that deal in IndyRef2.
    Well, she'll have to ignore them for now, but she can't deny them a vote forever. The very utmost she can do is make Sturgeon get an indyref2 mandate at the next Holyrood election.

    Do we want the UK to break up? No. It would, for a start, be economically calamitous for Scotland right now, there's no two ways about it. And Scots are my fellow citizens, my daughter is quarter Scots, I don't want them to be foreigners, nor do I want them impoverished.

    Why not go for a softer Brexit? It's what the majority of the country would prefer, Remainers and Liberal Leavers, and it is likely to keep the country together.

    Hey ho. This is exhausting.
    Freedom of movement must end. The EU will not let us have the single market without it, so we must leave that too.
  • Options
    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,203
    Scott_P said:

    SeanT said:

    Do we want the UK to break up? No. It would, for a start, be economically calamitous for Scotland right now, there's no two ways about it. And Scots are my fellow citizens, my daughter is quarter Scots, I don't want them to be foreigners, nor do I want them impoverished.

    Your vote enabled it.

    You won, remember?
    English arrogance is such a joy. Cake and eat it, all day, every day.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    CD13 said:

    If the Scots vote for independence from the UK and rejoin the EU, it will be at great cost to them. We could build a glass wall across the border so we can watch them in their EU prison uniforms begging for crusts.

    For the sake of Auld Lang Syne, I'd throw then a few Euros.

    It's fascinating how quickly the Brexiteers pivot from "the EU can't afford not to give us a deal" to "Scotland can't afford to leave us"

    But it has NOTHING to do with English exceptionalism... No siree
  • Options
    It is pretty clear that Sturgeon is playing politics with announcing her SindyRef2 just before the commons vote on the Article 50 amendments. Indeed, Salmond has just said on Sky News that May has decided to "delay" triggering it until the end of the month because she has been put on the back foot by Sturgeon. I don't blame the SNP, actually. It's what they campaign for, and you have to play the cards you're dealt.
    Maybe it is time for the end of the Union. It's only been​ in existence for 300 or so years, hasn't it? Barely a blink of an eye in the grand scheme of things. Let it go.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    Carnyx said:

    SeanT said:

    Ganesh is right tho. Joxit 2.0 is a gun to TMay's head.

    She might have to go for a considerably softer Brexit.

    Why? Nothing will EVER satisfy the SNP. Just ignore them for now - and do what is right for Britain. Then sell that deal in IndyRef2.
    correct

    tell them to jock off

    no reason why the rest of us have to put up with their shit, they dont even speak for the majority of Scots
    But you are forgetting the also pro-indy Greens. SNP + Greens = a majority of Scottish seats in both Parliaments, and IIRC votes too.

    Anyway, even if you are back to your usual form (!), I hope you and all the old regulars from the last time are well.

    Just tell em to wait

    if they took three years the last time why hurry now

    leave the EU and then let the Nats see what theyre facing

    Darien squared

  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    GIN1138 said:

    Off Topic:

    Happy birthday to Sandy.

    On Topic:

    Those of us who voted to LEAVE will have to own it. For good or bad.

    As far as Scotland is concerned it seems to me they've been on an inexorable and inevitable path to independence for the past 30 years. Yes, Brexit may speed this up a bit but the Union was doomed long before anybody voted to leave the EU.

    Bottom line, the Scots don't really want to stay and the English and Welsh are "50/50" at best on whether to Scots remain or leave.

    As with the prospect of the closure of Vauxhall's plants in England, we hear the persistent whine of the 'it would have happened anyway' klaxon.

    Nothing to do with Brexit. No sirree.
    so why did PSA close Ryton when we were in the EU ?
  • Options
    Scott_P said:
    He really is a useless wanker, isn't he?
  • Options
    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    Scott_P said:

    CD13 said:

    If the Scots vote for independence from the UK and rejoin the EU, it will be at great cost to them. We could build a glass wall across the border so we can watch them in their EU prison uniforms begging for crusts.

    For the sake of Auld Lang Syne, I'd throw then a few Euros.

    It's fascinating how quickly the Brexiteers pivot from "the EU can't afford not to give us a deal" to "Scotland can't afford to leave us"

    But it has NOTHING to do with English exceptionalism... No siree
    The UK is a net contributor to the EU. Scotland is a net recipient in the UK. Are figures not your strong point?
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,759

    Carnyx said:

    SeanT said:

    Ganesh is right tho. Joxit 2.0 is a gun to TMay's head.

    She might have to go for a considerably softer Brexit.

    Why? Nothing will EVER satisfy the SNP. Just ignore them for now - and do what is right for Britain. Then sell that deal in IndyRef2.
    correct

    tell them to jock off

    no reason why the rest of us have to put up with their shit, they dont even speak for the majority of Scots
    But you are forgetting the also pro-indy Greens. SNP + Greens = a majority of Scottish seats in both Parliaments, and IIRC votes too.

    Anyway, even if you are back to your usual form (!), I hope you and all the old regulars from the last time are well.

    Just tell em to wait

    if they took three years the last time why hurry now

    leave the EU and then let the Nats see what theyre facing

    Darien squared

    Oh goody, that's Darien crossed off my Indy Bingo card for today!
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,007

    It is pretty clear that Sturgeon is playing politics with announcing her SindyRef2 just before the commons vote on the Article 50 amendments. Indeed, Salmond has just said on Sky News that May has decided to "delay" triggering it until the end of the month because she has been put on the back foot by Sturgeon. I don't blame the SNP, actually. It's what they campaign for, and you have to play the cards you're dealt.
    Maybe it is time for the end of the Union. It's only been​ in existence for 300 or so years, hasn't it? Barely a blink of an eye in the grand scheme of things. Let it go.

    The Scots have to vote to let it go first, which on present polling is by no means certain
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,817
    edited March 2017

    GIN1138 said:

    Off Topic:

    Happy birthday to Sandy.

    On Topic:

    Those of us who voted to LEAVE will have to own it. For good or bad.

    As far as Scotland is concerned it seems to me they've been on an inexorable and inevitable path to independence for the past 30 years. Yes, Brexit may speed this up a bit but the Union was doomed long before anybody voted to leave the EU.

    Bottom line, the Scots don't really want to stay and the English and Welsh are "50/50" at best on whether to Scots remain or leave.

    As with the prospect of the closure of Vauxhall's plants in England, we hear the persistent whine of the 'it would have happened anyway' klaxon.

    Nothing to do with Brexit. No sirree.

    I didn't say it has "nothing" to do with Brexit.

    I said Brexit will probably speed up to the process of Scotland leaving a bit... But it's been clear to me for a long time that Scotland was on a different path to England and Wales which is why I was intensely relaxed about the last Sindy Ref and at the time basically said that if the Scots want to leave then good luck to them.

    That was my position then. That's my position now.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    Scott_P said:

    CD13 said:

    If the Scots vote for independence from the UK and rejoin the EU, it will be at great cost to them. We could build a glass wall across the border so we can watch them in their EU prison uniforms begging for crusts.

    For the sake of Auld Lang Syne, I'd throw then a few Euros.

    It's fascinating how quickly the Brexiteers pivot from "the EU can't afford not to give us a deal" to "Scotland can't afford to leave us"

    But it has NOTHING to do with English exceptionalism... No siree
    all you have to do is paint £350 million on the side of a bus

    get painting
  • Options
    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351
    Mr P,

    "But it has NOTHING to do with English exceptionalism... No siree."


    The British, the British, the British (including the Scots) are best. I wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,007
    chestnut said:

    Will England ever see a vaguely left wing government again if the Scots go?

    Attlee, Wilson and Blair all won majorities without the need for Scottish seats, so most probably
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    Scott_P said:

    SeanT said:

    Do we want the UK to break up? No. It would, for a start, be economically calamitous for Scotland right now, there's no two ways about it. And Scots are my fellow citizens, my daughter is quarter Scots, I don't want them to be foreigners, nor do I want them impoverished.

    Your vote enabled it.

    You won, remember?
    English arrogance is such a joy. Cake and eat it, all day, every day.
    The rest of us celts can get pretty pissed off with prima donna scots too
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,759

    It is pretty clear that Sturgeon is playing politics with announcing her SindyRef2 just before the commons vote on the Article 50 amendments. Indeed, Salmond has just said on Sky News that May has decided to "delay" triggering it until the end of the month because she has been put on the back foot by Sturgeon. I don't blame the SNP, actually. It's what they campaign for, and you have to play the cards you're dealt.
    Maybe it is time for the end of the Union. It's only been​ in existence for 300 or so years, hasn't it? Barely a blink of an eye in the grand scheme of things. Let it go.

    Indeed. Just consider it in the context of those wonderful fossils from Charnwood Forest, preferably with a decent port or single malt.
  • Options
    BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113

    GIN1138 said:

    Off Topic:

    Happy birthday to Sandy.

    On Topic:

    Those of us who voted to LEAVE will have to own it. For good or bad.

    As far as Scotland is concerned it seems to me they've been on an inexorable and inevitable path to independence for the past 30 years. Yes, Brexit may speed this up a bit but the Union was doomed long before anybody voted to leave the EU.

    Bottom line, the Scots don't really want to stay and the English and Welsh are "50/50" at best on whether to Scots remain or leave.

    As with the prospect of the closure of Vauxhall's plants in England, we hear the persistent whine of the 'it would have happened anyway' klaxon.

    Nothing to do with Brexit. No sirree.
    so why did PSA close Ryton when we were in the EU ?
    Which bit of "UK car production at 17 year high" don't you understand?
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    Scott_P said:
    Parliament votes to enforce the decision of voters - because anything less isn't democracy.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    MPs should have voted 'in secret' - Gina Miller
  • Options
    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    Stupid mistake by Sturgeon. Not a patch on Eck.
  • Options
    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976

    Scott_P said:
    He really is a useless wanker, isn't he?
    A rhetorical question if ever there was one.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    GIN1138 said:

    Off Topic:

    Happy birthday to Sandy.

    On Topic:

    Those of us who voted to LEAVE will have to own it. For good or bad.

    As far as Scotland is concerned it seems to me they've been on an inexorable and inevitable path to independence for the past 30 years. Yes, Brexit may speed this up a bit but the Union was doomed long before anybody voted to leave the EU.

    Bottom line, the Scots don't really want to stay and the English and Welsh are "50/50" at best on whether to Scots remain or leave.

    As with the prospect of the closure of Vauxhall's plants in England, we hear the persistent whine of the 'it would have happened anyway' klaxon.

    Nothing to do with Brexit. No sirree.
    so why did PSA close Ryton when we were in the EU ?
    Which bit of "UK car production at 17 year high" don't you understand?
    since iVe worked in the car indusry for 20 years I suspect its you doesnt understand it

    so once again why did Ryton close when we were in the EU ?
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    MPs should have voted 'in secret' - Gina Miller

    LOL. Seriously?
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Or - playing politics means the other person looks like an opportunistic little shit.

    The accusation 'playing politics' always seems to me to have an air of desperation about it. They're politicians: politics is what they do ...
    Indeed it'd be like Mourinho complaining about the opposing team playing football.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    RobD said:

    MPs should have voted 'in secret' - Gina Miller

    LOL. Seriously?
    Gina Miller, the lawyer who took the government to the Supreme Court to give MPs a vote on Brexit, has been interviewed on Radio 4's PM.

    Ms Miller said there is "an awful lot of bullying" in Parliament, which meant MPs couldn't "do their job properly" and "vote with their conscience" on the Brexit bill. She said that MPs should have been allowed to vote in secret.

    Ms Miller told Eddie Mair that she was disappointed that MPs "haven't asked enough questions" or sought the opinion of their constituents on "what kind of Brexit they want".

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-parliaments-39256795
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    RobD said:

    MPs should have voted 'in secret' - Gina Miller

    LOL. Seriously?
    yup she was talking crap on R4 this afternoon

    she wants open government with secret votes
  • Options
    BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113

    GIN1138 said:

    Off Topic:

    Happy birthday to Sandy.

    On Topic:

    Those of us who voted to LEAVE will have to own it. For good or bad.

    As far as Scotland is concerned it seems to me they've been on an inexorable and inevitable path to independence for the past 30 years. Yes, Brexit may speed this up a bit but the Union was doomed long before anybody voted to leave the EU.

    Bottom line, the Scots don't really want to stay and the English and Welsh are "50/50" at best on whether to Scots remain or leave.

    As with the prospect of the closure of Vauxhall's plants in England, we hear the persistent whine of the 'it would have happened anyway' klaxon.

    Nothing to do with Brexit. No sirree.
    so why did PSA close Ryton when we were in the EU ?
    Which bit of "UK car production at 17 year high" don't you understand?
    since iVe worked in the car indusry for 20 years I suspect its you doesnt understand it

    so once again why did Ryton close when we were in the EU ?
    Why did Nissan and Toyota build state of the art plants in the U.K. while we were in the single market?

    Stop trying to pretend your pathetic arguments make any kind of sense.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    SeanT said:

    Stupid mistake by Sturgeon. Not a patch on Eck.

    According to Sky it is Eck & Co who bullied her into this, and she thinks the timing is wrong.
    auspicious start
  • Options
    ArtistArtist Posts: 1,882
    The people in Scotland aren't stupid, they can recognise that the timetable laid out by Sturgeon is ridiculous and it'd make Theresa May look like the sensible one if anything, if she rejected it. If Sturgeon doesn't have public support for her plans then she's screwed.
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    HYUFD said:

    chestnut said:

    Will England ever see a vaguely left wing government again if the Scots go?

    Attlee, Wilson and Blair all won majorities without the need for Scottish seats, so most probably
    I'm not sure that Blair passes as left wing to be honest.

    It's astonishing just how many utter cock ups can be traced back to that 1997 government.

    On a positive note, I did notice earlier today that the UK government is on target this year for it's lowest deficit to GDP ratio since 2002 .

  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Calling William Glenn - you ok hun?
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    GIN1138 said:

    Off Topic:

    Happy birthday to Sandy.

    On Topic:

    Those of us who voted to LEAVE will have to own it. For good or bad.

    As far as Scotland is concerned it seems to me they've been on an inexorable and inevitable path to independence for the past 30 years. Yes, Brexit may speed this up a bit but the Union was doomed long before anybody voted to leave the EU.

    Bottom line, the Scots don't really want to stay and the English and Welsh are "50/50" at best on whether to Scots remain or leave.

    As with the prospect of the closure of Vauxhall's plants in England, we hear the persistent whine of the 'it would have happened anyway' klaxon.

    Nothing to do with Brexit. No sirree.
    so why did PSA close Ryton when we were in the EU ?
    Which bit of "UK car production at 17 year high" don't you understand?
    since iVe worked in the car indusry for 20 years I suspect its you doesnt understand it

    so once again why did Ryton close when we were in the EU ?
    Why did Nissan and Toyota build state of the art plants in the U.K. while we were in the single market?

    Stop trying to pretend your pathetic arguments make any kind of sense.
    yeah youre still trying to avoid the question

    Ill happily answer your supplementary question when you answer the first

    once again why did PSA close Ryton when we were in the EU ?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,007
    edited March 2017
    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    It is pretty clear that Sturgeon is playing politics with announcing her SindyRef2 just before the commons vote on the Article 50 amendments. Indeed, Salmond has just said on Sky News that May has decided to "delay" triggering it until the end of the month because she has been put on the back foot by Sturgeon. I don't blame the SNP, actually. It's what they campaign for, and you have to play the cards you're dealt.
    Maybe it is time for the end of the Union. It's only been​ in existence for 300 or so years, hasn't it? Barely a blink of an eye in the grand scheme of things. Let it go.

    The Scots have to vote to let it go first, which on present polling is by no means certain
    Yes, it is possible the bookies are over-reacting. The polls are generally NO. Some quite strongly NO. Feelings are entrenched. The arguments will be exactly the same, currency, bank, etc.

    What has changed is the EU (a general positive for Sturgeon) and the price of oil (a big negative).

    Most Scots do NOT want a vote for indy pre Brexit. This is not a popular move.

    Sturgeon has taken a very big gamble. I reckon the odds should be more like 2/1 YES, and 1/2 No. Not evens.



    Yes, personally I think May is more cunning than is being made out. First post Brexit she knew she had to neutralise the UKIP threat so she had a clear majority behind her to trigger Article 50 so she made it look as if she is doing a very hard Brexit and the SNP took the bait and went straight for indyref2. In reality she will do what she was always going to do, ie a softer version of Brexit than first appears with a job offer requirement and some continued EU budget contributions which could be enough for Scots to vote to stay in the UK, just and kill off independence for a generation and Sturgeon's career while the fact she has already got most Leave voters on board and weakened UKIP means Farage and Nuttall and co have little room to exploit the softer Brexit terms she eventually does agree so she can also ensure she is re-elected at the next general election with an overall majority. Not impossible
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    SeanT said:

    Stupid mistake by Sturgeon. Not a patch on Eck.

    According to Sky it is Eck & Co who bullied her into this, and she thinks the timing is wrong.
    Support for indy is mainly men. Women are very much against.

    And she's being bullied?
  • Options
    philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Off Topic:

    Happy birthday to Sandy.

    On Topic:

    Those of us who voted to LEAVE will have to own it. For good or bad.

    As far as Scotland is concerned it seems to me they've been on an inexorable and inevitable path to independence for the past 30 years. Yes, Brexit may speed this up a bit but the Union was doomed long before anybody voted to leave the EU.

    Bottom line, the Scots don't really want to stay and the English and Welsh are "50/50" at best on whether to Scots remain or leave.

    As with the prospect of the closure of Vauxhall's plants in England, we hear the persistent whine of the 'it would have happened anyway' klaxon.

    Nothing to do with Brexit. No sirree.

    I didn't say it has "nothing" to do with Brexit.

    I said Brexit will probably speed up to the process of Scotland leaving a bit... But it's been clear to me for a long time that Scotland was on a different path to England and Wales which is why I was intensely relaxed about the last Sindy Ref and at the time basically said that if the Scots want to leave then good luck to them.

    That was my position then. That's my position now.
    Scotland was on a different path because they believed they could be better off independent. That is better off financially, well oiled and splurging money as they wish. Don't be taken in by the faux altruistic socialist caring noises. As with all who see money, they want more for themselves.
  • Options
    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,978

    Stupid mistake by Sturgeon. Not a patch on Eck.

    Nonsense. She's been able to reach parts of the electorate he never could. And as far as posterity goes, she's likely to be credited with winning the referendum that her predecessor couldn't. She's by far the most able politician currently active in UK politics.
  • Options
    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    SeanT said:

    Stupid mistake by Sturgeon. Not a patch on Eck.

    According to Sky it is Eck & Co who bullied her into this, and she thinks the timing is wrong.
    It's a disastrous error and they'll all blame each other for it but Sturgeon is the owner.
  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    SeanT said:

    Stupid mistake by Sturgeon. Not a patch on Eck.

    According to Sky it is Eck & Co who bullied her into this, and she thinks the timing is wrong.
    its utter bollox - the plan is hope that the British government says no to the referendum.

    Cynical beyond measure and bad for all the UK - not that they care about that
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    chestnut said:

    Will England ever see a vaguely left wing government again if the Scots go?

    It will do in a way. The location of the centre ground will adjust.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,007
    chestnut said:

    HYUFD said:

    chestnut said:

    Will England ever see a vaguely left wing government again if the Scots go?

    Attlee, Wilson and Blair all won majorities without the need for Scottish seats, so most probably
    I'm not sure that Blair passes as left wing to be honest.

    It's astonishing just how many utter cock ups can be traced back to that 1997 government.

    On a positive note, I did notice earlier today that the UK government is on target this year for it's lowest deficit to GDP ratio since 2002 .

    Any Labour leader would have won in 1997 and 2001 in England and Wales, they did not need Blair or Scotland
  • Options
    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    What a bore that man is. They can have a meaningful vote if Westminster permits.
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I think seems that we can add the union to the things that the Ben Tre Brexiters are happy to sacrifice in the pursuit of their hobbyhorse.
  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    chestnut said:

    Will England ever see a vaguely left wing government again if the Scots go?

    A Brucey bonus (pun intended)
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    I think seems that we can add the union to the things that the Ben Tre Brexiters are happy to sacrifice in the pursuit of their hobbyhorse.

    I think I preferred the hugging to death one.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190

    I think seems that we can add the union to the things that the Ben Tre Brexiters are happy to sacrifice in the pursuit of their hobbyhorse.

    Sorry, but the Union was put at risk in 2014 - and us Brexiteers could do nothing about it.
  • Options
    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    The Conservatives in parliament are totally united you have to hand it to them .They show no qualms which is doing well in the polls.
  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    CD13 said:

    If the Scots vote for independence from the UK and rejoin the EU, it will be at great cost to them. We could build a glass wall across the border so we can watch them in their EU prison uniforms begging for crusts.

    For the sake of Auld Lang Syne, I'd throw then a few Euros.

    How will the Spanish take Scotland leaving and then joining the EU?
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    edited March 2017
    SeanT said:

    philiph said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Off Topic:

    Happy birthday to Sandy.

    On Topic:

    Those of us who voted to LEAVE will have to own it. For good or bad.

    As far as Scotland is concerned it seems to me they've been on an inexorable and inevitable path to independence for the past 30 years. Yes, Brexit may speed this up a bit but the Union was doomed long before anybody voted to leave the EU.

    Bottom line, the Scots don't really want to stay and the English and Welsh are "50/50" at best on whether to Scots remain or leave.

    As with the prospect of the closure of Vauxhall's plants in England, we hear the persistent whine of the 'it would have happened anyway' klaxon.

    Nothing to do with Brexit. No sirree.

    I didn't say it has "nothing" to do with Brexit.

    I said Brexit will probably speed up to the process of Scotland leaving a bit... But it's been clear to me for a long time that Scotland was on a different path to England and Wales which is why I was intensely relaxed about the last Sindy Ref and at the time basically said that if the Scots want to leave then good luck to them.

    That was my position then. That's my position now.
    Scotland was on a different path because they believed they could be better off independent. That is better off financially, well oiled and splurging money as they wish. Don't be taken in by the faux altruistic socialist caring noises. As with all who see money, they want more for themselves.
    The narrative that Scotland will be financially different to the UK, and oil rich like Norway has now gone for good. Most Scots voters will know that iScotland will actually be poorer, and in serious debt.

    But will that bother the electors? This is also about emotion.
    the fun thing atm is the way fracking is now putting a lower ceiling on oil prices. Scottish oil revenues will struggle to get back to where they were and the cost of decomissioning becomes greater each year.

    We can look forward to the SNP explaining why this doesnt matter
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,718
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Ganesh is right tho. Joxit 2.0 is a gun to TMay's head.

    She might have to go for a considerably softer Brexit.

    Why? Nothing will EVER satisfy the SNP. Just ignore them for now - and do what is right for Britain. Then sell that deal in IndyRef2.
    Well, she'll have to ignore them for now, but she can't deny them a vote forever. The very utmost she can do is make Sturgeon get an indyref2 mandate at the next Holyrood election.

    Do we want the UK to break up? No. It would, for a start, be economically calamitous for Scotland right now, there's no two ways about it. And Scots are my fellow citizens, my daughter is quarter Scots, I don't want them to be foreigners, nor do I want them impoverished.

    Why not go for a softer Brexit? It's what the majority of the country would prefer, Remainers and Liberal Leavers, and it is likely to keep the country together.

    Hey ho. This is exhausting.
    Theresa May could keep the UK together by going for a soft Brexit, but I doubt she will.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,817
    tlg86 said:

    I think seems that we can add the union to the things that the Ben Tre Brexiters are happy to sacrifice in the pursuit of their hobbyhorse.

    Sorry, but the Union was put at risk in 2014 - and us Brexiteers could do nothing about it.
    The Union has gradually been falling apart, stitch by stitch for 30 years.
  • Options
    HaroldOHaroldO Posts: 1,185
    Wee Eck's all over TV, just what he wanted.

    I am investing in popcorn for the next two years, because this ref is going to get nuts in terms of language and rather quickly.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,311
    edited March 2017

    MPs should have voted 'in secret' - Gina Miller

    Gina Miller elected by no one :)
  • Options
    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Ganesh is right tho. Joxit 2.0 is a gun to TMay's head.

    She might have to go for a considerably softer Brexit.

    Why? Nothing will EVER satisfy the SNP. Just ignore them for now - and do what is right for Britain. Then sell that deal in IndyRef2.
    Well, she'll have to ignore them for now, but she can't deny them a vote forever. The very utmost she can do is make Sturgeon get an indyref2 mandate at the next Holyrood election.

    Do we want the UK to break up? No. It would, for a start, be economically calamitous for Scotland right now, there's no two ways about it. And Scots are my fellow citizens, my daughter is quarter Scots, I don't want them to be foreigners, nor do I want them impoverished.

    Why not go for a softer Brexit? It's what the majority of the country would prefer, Remainers and Liberal Leavers, and it is likely to keep the country together.

    Hey ho. This is exhausting.
    Theresa May could keep the UK together by going for a soft Brexit, but I doubt she will.
    There is no soft Brexit. You cannot be a little bit pregnant. We are IN or we are OUT
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Ganesh is right tho. Joxit 2.0 is a gun to TMay's head.

    She might have to go for a considerably softer Brexit.

    Why? Nothing will EVER satisfy the SNP. Just ignore them for now - and do what is right for Britain. Then sell that deal in IndyRef2.
    Well, she'll have to ignore them for now, but she can't deny them a vote forever. The very utmost she can do is make Sturgeon get an indyref2 mandate at the next Holyrood election.

    Do we want the UK to break up? No. It would, for a start, be economically calamitous for Scotland right now, there's no two ways about it. And Scots are my fellow citizens, my daughter is quarter Scots, I don't want them to be foreigners, nor do I want them impoverished.

    Why not go for a softer Brexit? It's what the majority of the country would prefer, Remainers and Liberal Leavers, and it is likely to keep the country together.

    Hey ho. This is exhausting.
    Theresa May could keep the UK together by going for a soft Brexit, but I doubt she will.
    she could equally keep it together with a hard Brexit

    neither option guarantees anything
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,930
    chestnut said:

    Why assume that the SNP/Yes side will win?

    They were not even close last time. They lost by eleven points. They are absolutely miles behind in the polls with all the prime voter groups at the moment.

    The only reason we are listening to the interminable neverendum agenda of Sturgeon is that the unionist vote has been fractured in the 2015 election in particular, but slightly less so in 2016.

    It's about unionist collaboration and co-operation now.

    It's because the people who lost the EU ref can't accept defeat and now want Scotland to win independence so they can blame Brexit

    It'll be something else next week
  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    Striking lack of rejoicing from the PB Tory Leavers on here tonight.

    You won. You won it all. What's up?

    As a remain voter I am delighted the will of the people has been fulfilled tonight.

    The process can now begin and lets start being positive and getting behind the PM.

    The remain and leave sides need to stop fighting the referendum. Tonight ended that
    LOL - I agree with you - but rabid remainers on here will whine until judgement day

  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited March 2017
    Floater said:
    The rally, organised by the Corbyn-supporting Momentum group, was called to support an amendment to the Brexit bill that would have guaranteed the rights of EU citizens living in the UK. However, Corbyn failed to show after only around 100 people turned up to the event outside Parliament.

    Chances of this motivated ground team a) being organized and b) slogging the pavements day in day out in 2020?...its ok though because they will retweet a lot of stuff to their echo chamber.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Brexit will be awesome. How can it fail with these folk in charge...

    @aljwhite: Boris Johnson has quite literally just told the house of commons that a new royal yacht will help us attract trade deals
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850

    MPs should have voted 'in secret' - Gina Miller

    That did amuse me.
This discussion has been closed.