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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Tory MP for Thanet South and his agent have been questione

SystemSystem Posts: 11,682
edited March 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Tory MP for Thanet South and his agent have been questioned under caution over their election expenses

EXCL: Tory MP Craig Mackinlay interviewed under caution for six hours over South Thanet election expenses: https://t.co/eDhdlnRIQK

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897
    edited March 2017
    First like the Tories!
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    Sandpit said:

    First?

    Second :(
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Best Yanworth impression here
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    In other news, Theresa May is touring the nation to build a consensus for Brexit. Perhaps she should be starting by trying to build a consensus within her own party.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    Does this invalidate the referendum? :D
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,942
    Another Posho hangover!
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. Meeks, the question is, suppose the Conservatives eat their own face. Cui bono?

    Springtime for Lib Dems, perhaps.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    In other news, Theresa May is touring the nation to build a consensus for Brexit. Perhaps she should be starting by trying to build a consensus within her own party.

    Tory MPs aren't the split on the issue, are they?
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Who's playing Sylvester Sneekly?
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,942
    Fpt:
    Jonathan said:

    Scott_P said:
    Ah, a politician has come to town. The country will be united. But not in the way she hopes.
    Unlike the Labour leadership and past leaders (Blair, anyone?), Mrs May is popular.
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    RobD said:

    In other news, Theresa May is touring the nation to build a consensus for Brexit. Perhaps she should be starting by trying to build a consensus within her own party.

    Tory MPs aren't the split on the issue, are they?
    Judging by the above, they're set fair to be fighting like ferrets in a sack.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,942
    edited March 2017

    In other news, Theresa May is touring the nation to build a consensus for Brexit. Perhaps she should be starting by trying to build a consensus within her own party.

    I hope she doesn't waste her time with London. Their extreme European Hobby-Horse will get in the way.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Tories have a working majority of 17. There is a simple solution to boost that, support Scottish independence. By my maths that would boost the Tory working majority to 74. That's before any boundary reforms or a potential Corbyn general election.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,928
    Mortimer said:

    Fpt:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_P said:
    Ah, a politician has come to town. The country will be united. But not in the way she hopes.
    Unlike the Labour leadership and past leaders (Blair, anyone?), Mrs May is popular.
    Well I never voted for him, but Blair was undeniably popular - particularly between 1997 and 2002.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,965

    In other news, Theresa May is touring the nation to build a consensus for Brexit. Perhaps she should be starting by trying to build a consensus within her own party.

    Bit late for that. She has had 9 months to build a consensus.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Mortimer said:

    Fpt:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_P said:
    Ah, a politician has come to town. The country will be united. But not in the way she hopes.
    Unlike the Labour leadership and past leaders (Blair, anyone?), Mrs May is popular.
    Really? That is yet to be put to the test. No doubt her natural warmth will shine through.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,927
    Ooh goody, does this mean us Kippers can play victim/little guy?!

    Beating the establishment fair and square didn't feel right somehow
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. Meeks, according to my tweet, the drivers will be Parker (Lady Penelope on strategy) and Austin Powers.

    "Shall I slide into your box, baby?"

    "Austin, please stop using euphemisms, and just pit the car."

    "Groovy, I'm coming in for some hot, wet rubber."
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,942
    Pulpstar said:

    Mortimer said:

    Fpt:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_P said:
    Ah, a politician has come to town. The country will be united. But not in the way she hopes.
    Unlike the Labour leadership and past leaders (Blair, anyone?), Mrs May is popular.
    Well I never voted for him, but Blair was undeniably popular - particularly between 1997 and 2002.
    That was then. Now, not so much.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897
    RobD said:

    In other news, Theresa May is touring the nation to build a consensus for Brexit. Perhaps she should be starting by trying to build a consensus within her own party.

    Tory MPs aren't the split on the issue, are they?
    The Tory whips - in both houses - did a fantastic job on the A50 Bill. Even Ken Clarke didn't vote against it yesterday.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    SeanT said:

    I have to admit that, for this Liberal Leaver, it would be rather galling if iScotland ended up where I thought the UK should be - in the EEA or EFTA, and the rump of the UK ends up outside entirely.

    Hmpft.

    For the purposes of clarity, I don't think this outcome is likely, but the mere possibility causes a faintly bitter taste.

    Yes, but Scotland would be outside our Single Market in that scenario.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897

    Tories have a working majority of 17. There is a simple solution to boost that, support Scottish independence. By my maths that would boost the Tory working majority to 74. That's before any boundary reforms or a potential Corbyn general election.

    Why would the 'Conservative and Unionist Party' support the breakup of the Union?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,928
    Mortimer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Mortimer said:

    Fpt:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_P said:
    Ah, a politician has come to town. The country will be united. But not in the way she hopes.
    Unlike the Labour leadership and past leaders (Blair, anyone?), Mrs May is popular.
    Well I never voted for him, but Blair was undeniably popular - particularly between 1997 and 2002.
    That was then. Now, not so much.
    We will be waiting till 2037 for a meaningful Blair/May comparison though.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    Could NPXMP have a chance of getting back into Parliament? :)
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,928
    Sandpit said:


    Why would the 'Conservative and European Unionist Party' support the breakup of the Union?

    :o
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,942
    Jonathan said:

    Mortimer said:

    Fpt:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_P said:
    Ah, a politician has come to town. The country will be united. But not in the way she hopes.
    Unlike the Labour leadership and past leaders (Blair, anyone?), Mrs May is popular.
    Really? That is yet to be put to the test. No doubt her natural warmth will shine through.
    You still think Blair is popular, I imagine. I suspect you're not the best judge...
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897

    Mr. Meeks, according to my tweet, the drivers will be Parker (Lady Penelope on strategy) and Austin Powers.

    "Shall I slide into your box, baby?"

    "Austin, please stop using euphemisms, and just pit the car."

    "Groovy, I'm coming in for some hot, wet rubber."

    :D
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,927
    edited March 2017
    If Farage wins Thanet, would he and Carswell have to sit with each other in parliament or can they sit where they like?
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,942
    Pulpstar said:

    Mortimer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Mortimer said:

    Fpt:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_P said:
    Ah, a politician has come to town. The country will be united. But not in the way she hopes.
    Unlike the Labour leadership and past leaders (Blair, anyone?), Mrs May is popular.
    Well I never voted for him, but Blair was undeniably popular - particularly between 1997 and 2002.
    That was then. Now, not so much.
    We will be waiting till 2037 for a meaningful Blair/May comparison though.
    Nah. The hilariously easy hurdle to be more popular than Blair is to not unnecessarily invade a middle eastern country.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,928
    isam said:

    If Farage wins Thanet, would he and Carswell have to sit with each other in parliament or can they sit where they like?

    Hah !

    Nige surely has to go for it, if it comes to that ?
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Mortimer said:

    Jonathan said:

    Mortimer said:

    Fpt:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_P said:
    Ah, a politician has come to town. The country will be united. But not in the way she hopes.
    Unlike the Labour leadership and past leaders (Blair, anyone?), Mrs May is popular.
    Really? That is yet to be put to the test. No doubt her natural warmth will shine through.
    You still think Blair is popular, I imagine. I suspect you're not the best judge...
    Eh? Wondering why you're circling wagons around May today. She has not had a good couple of weeks, but surely it's too early for that.
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    isam said:

    If Farage wins Thanet, would he and Carswell have to sit with each other in parliament or can they sit where they like?

    Will they necessarily be in the same party by the time any rerun of this seat took place, given the news today about Arron Banks?
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:


    Why would the 'Conservative and European Unionist Party' support the breakup of the Union?

    :o
    Oi!
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,927
    edited March 2017
    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    If Farage wins Thanet, would he and Carswell have to sit with each other in parliament or can they sit where they like?

    Hah !

    Nige surely has to go for it, if it comes to that ?
    He has more or less said he will be the UKIP candidate if it is rerun. I cant see why he would bother really. Why be an MP when he can do what he is doing now?

    Maybe he wants to prove Enoch right (again), that all political careers end in failure
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,942
    Jonathan said:

    Mortimer said:

    Jonathan said:

    Mortimer said:

    Fpt:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_P said:
    Ah, a politician has come to town. The country will be united. But not in the way she hopes.
    Unlike the Labour leadership and past leaders (Blair, anyone?), Mrs May is popular.
    Really? That is yet to be put to the test. No doubt her natural warmth will shine through.
    You still think Blair is popular, I imagine. I suspect you're not the best judge...
    Eh? Wondering why you're circling wagons around May today. She has not had a good couple of weeks, but surely it's too early for that.
    Seriously, listen to yourself. Support is circling wagons now?

  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,965
    Maybe it's time for the Federally United Conservative Kippers and Unionist Party?
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897

    isam said:

    If Farage wins Thanet, would he and Carswell have to sit with each other in parliament or can they sit where they like?

    Will they necessarily be in the same party by the time any rerun of this seat took place, given the news today about Arron Banks?
    Surely if Nigel runs for UKIP in a by-election, as he's pretty much said he would, then Banks would fund it for him?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,928
    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    If Farage wins Thanet, would he and Carswell have to sit with each other in parliament or can they sit where they like?

    Hah !

    Nige surely has to go for it, if it comes to that ?
    He has more or less said he will be the UKIP candidate if it is rerun. I cant see why he would bother really. Why be an MP when he can do what he is doing now?

    Maybe he wants to prove Enoch right (again), that all political careers end in failure
    Will you be heading back to the UKIP well if Nige runs ?

    I'm not sure I'll be laying him as peacefully as Nuttall turned out in all honesty. He is a much better candidate, and an actual local.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. Isam, well, failing in nine by-elections still isn't as bad as the way Caesar's political career ended. Or that of Crassus.

    Mr. Meeks, it'd be a good opportunity for the new Banks-Farage party, if it comes about, to try and snatch an early victory. However, it could split the Kipper vote and let the Conservatives in through the middle.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897
    dixiedean said:

    Maybe it's time for the Federally United Conservative Kippers and Unionist Party?

    Maybe, but Corbyn's Labour have the trademark on that acronym.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,927

    isam said:

    If Farage wins Thanet, would he and Carswell have to sit with each other in parliament or can they sit where they like?

    Will they necessarily be in the same party by the time any rerun of this seat took place, given the news today about Arron Banks?
    Who knows?!
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Sandpit said:

    isam said:

    If Farage wins Thanet, would he and Carswell have to sit with each other in parliament or can they sit where they like?

    Will they necessarily be in the same party by the time any rerun of this seat took place, given the news today about Arron Banks?
    Surely if Nigel runs for UKIP in a by-election, as he's pretty much said he would, then Banks would fund it for him?
    Nigel Farage has pretty much said he'd run again in Thanet South. I'm not sure he's said that would inevitably be under a UKIP banner.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,927
    edited March 2017
    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    If Farage wins Thanet, would he and Carswell have to sit with each other in parliament or can they sit where they like?

    Hah !

    Nige surely has to go for it, if it comes to that ?
    He has more or less said he will be the UKIP candidate if it is rerun. I cant see why he would bother really. Why be an MP when he can do what he is doing now?

    Maybe he wants to prove Enoch right (again), that all political careers end in failure
    Will you be heading back to the UKIP well if Nige runs ?

    I'm not sure I'll be laying him as peacefully as Nuttall turned out in all honesty. He is a much better candidate, and an actual local.
    Depends on the prices I guess
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,927

    Sandpit said:

    isam said:

    If Farage wins Thanet, would he and Carswell have to sit with each other in parliament or can they sit where they like?

    Will they necessarily be in the same party by the time any rerun of this seat took place, given the news today about Arron Banks?
    Surely if Nigel runs for UKIP in a by-election, as he's pretty much said he would, then Banks would fund it for him?
    Nigel Farage has pretty much said he'd run again in Thanet South. I'm not sure he's said that would inevitably be under a UKIP banner.
    I think, will check, that he said on The Sunday Politics he would be the UKIP candidate
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,002
    edited March 2017
    If there were a by election in Thanet South I expect the Tories would hold it and if UKIP won it that just adds to the case for hard Brexit, so Remoaners lose either way
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,927
    Sandpit said:

    dixiedean said:

    Maybe it's time for the Federally United Conservative Kippers and Unionist Party?

    Maybe, but Corbyn's Labour have the trademark on that acronym.
    Corbyns Labour - Uber Socialist, Tedious, Endless, Repetitive Failures, Useless, Communist, Killjoys
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,119
    Will UKIP even have the money for their deposit by the time of any by-election?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,002
    SeanT said:

    I have to admit that, for this Liberal Leaver, it would be rather galling if iScotland ended up where I thought the UK should be - in the EEA or EFTA, and the rump of the UK ends up outside entirely.

    Hmpft.

    For the purposes of clarity, I don't think this outcome is likely, but the mere possibility causes a faintly bitter taste.

    That assumes the Scots want the uncontrolled free movement that comes with it as well as the cost of leaving the UK which polling still suggests they don't
  • Options
    CyanCyan Posts: 1,262
    Nominations of French presidential candidates so far are as follows. The last batch will be released on Friday. So far, only about a quarter of possible nominations are in.

    FILLON François 2953
    HAMON Benoît 1717
    MACRON Emmanuel 1548
    DUPONT-AIGNAN Nicolas 672
    MELENCHON Jean-Luc 666
    ARTHAUD Nathalie 623
    LE PEN Marine 618
    ASSELINEAU François 569
    ----------------------------
    CHEMINADE Jacques 469
    LASSALLE Jean 453
    POUTOU Philippe 357
    JUPPE Alain 302
    YADE Rama 217
    JARDIN Alexandre 107
    others all less than 100

    Jean Lassalle is a deputy for François Bayrou's party.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,002

    Tories have a working majority of 17. There is a simple solution to boost that, support Scottish independence. By my maths that would boost the Tory working majority to 74. That's before any boundary reforms or a potential Corbyn general election.

    I would prefer a Corbyn landslide to Scottish independence. Anyway, Blair, Wilson and Attlee all won majorities without Scotland so playing party politics over the Union is a dangerous game
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Meanwhile, Nigel Farage has been buddying up with Marine Le Pen:

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/841711033764970496
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    Meanwhile, Nigel Farage has been buddying up with Marine Le Pen:

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/841711033764970496

    usual misogyny
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    As I suggested this morning, the Dutch approve of how their government has handled the Turkish spat. This may explain why the VVD seem to have put on support in the last day or so:

    https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/841718373448855552
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    Cyan said:

    Nominations of French presidential candidates so far are as follows. The last batch will be released on Friday. So far, only about a quarter of possible nominations are in.

    FILLON François 2953
    HAMON Benoît 1717
    MACRON Emmanuel 1548
    DUPONT-AIGNAN Nicolas 672
    MELENCHON Jean-Luc 666
    ARTHAUD Nathalie 623
    LE PEN Marine 618
    ASSELINEAU François 569
    ----------------------------
    CHEMINADE Jacques 469
    LASSALLE Jean 453
    POUTOU Philippe 357
    JUPPE Alain 302
    YADE Rama 217
    JARDIN Alexandre 107
    others all less than 100

    Jean Lassalle is a deputy for François Bayrou's party.

    how many dont have a corruption case brewing against them ?
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,927
    edited March 2017
    isam said:

    Sandpit said:

    isam said:

    If Farage wins Thanet, would he and Carswell have to sit with each other in parliament or can they sit where they like?

    Will they necessarily be in the same party by the time any rerun of this seat took place, given the news today about Arron Banks?
    Surely if Nigel runs for UKIP in a by-election, as he's pretty much said he would, then Banks would fund it for him?
    Nigel Farage has pretty much said he'd run again in Thanet South. I'm not sure he's said that would inevitably be under a UKIP banner.
    I think, will check, that he said on The Sunday Politics he would be the UKIP candidate
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vktBtzl90so

    Around 6mins Neil asks him if he would be the UKIP candidate and he says "I probably would"
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897
    edited March 2017

    Sandpit said:

    isam said:

    If Farage wins Thanet, would he and Carswell have to sit with each other in parliament or can they sit where they like?

    Will they necessarily be in the same party by the time any rerun of this seat took place, given the news today about Arron Banks?
    Surely if Nigel runs for UKIP in a by-election, as he's pretty much said he would, then Banks would fund it for him?
    Nigel Farage has pretty much said he'd run again in Thanet South. I'm not sure he's said that would inevitably be under a UKIP banner.
    This was the quote I heard. When asked if he'd be the UKIP candidate, he says "Yes,I probably would"
    https://twitter.com/daily_politics/status/840893410848342017/video/1

    Edit: I see @isam posted the same interview.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,002

    As I suggested this morning, the Dutch approve of how their government has handled the Turkish spat. This may explain why the VVD seem to have put on support in the last day or so:

    https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/841718373448855552

    Rutte has taken a tough line with the Turks as he has toughened his stance on immigration in recent months so he will probably be re elected tomorrow
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    If this is accurate, then it makes the proposed referendum even more ludicrous. If the SNP don't even want to be in the EU (necessarily), why then would leaving it be considered just cause for Referendum 2: Refer Harder?

    https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/841707831330000897
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897
    isam said:

    Sandpit said:

    dixiedean said:

    Maybe it's time for the Federally United Conservative Kippers and Unionist Party?

    Maybe, but Corbyn's Labour have the trademark on that acronym.
    Corbyns Labour - Uber Socialist, Tedious, Endless, Repetitive Failures, Useless, Communist, Killjoys
    You're far too kind about them!
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897

    If this is accurate, then it makes the proposed referendum even more ludicrous. If the SNP don't even want to be in the EU (necessarily), why then would leaving it be considered just cause for Referendum 2: Refer Harder?

    ttps://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/841707831330000897

    That's what happens when she's opportunistically making things up as she goes along!
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190

    If this is accurate, then it makes the proposed referendum even more ludicrous. If the SNP don't even want to be in the EU (necessarily), why then would leaving it be considered just cause for Referendum 2: Refer Harder?

    https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/841707831330000897

    They clearly don't want to go anywhere near the Euro.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,119

    If this is accurate, then it makes the proposed referendum even more ludicrous. If the SNP don't even want to be in the EU (necessarily), why then would leaving it be considered just cause for Referendum 2: Refer Harder?

    https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/841707831330000897

    So, they want IndyRef2 because Scotland is being dragged out of the EU, but then they don't want to....my head hurts.

    OmniMcShambles?
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited March 2017

    If this is accurate, then it makes the proposed referendum even more ludicrous. If the SNP don't even want to be in the EU (necessarily), why then would leaving it be considered just cause for Referendum 2: Refer Harder?

    https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/841707831330000897

    Uh, single market access - not EU membership - has been the red line from the very​ moment the EU ref result was known. Sturgeon repeated it ad nauseum since June.

    Anyone who is siprised by this either hasn't been paying attention, is an idiot or is trying to generate headlines.
  • Options
    CyanCyan Posts: 1,262
    edited March 2017

    If this is accurate, then it makes the proposed referendum even more ludicrous. If the SNP don't even want to be in the EU (necessarily), why then would leaving it be considered just cause for Referendum 2: Refer Harder?

    https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/841707831330000897

    This is getting beyond a joke.

    Is Sturgeon going to demand that iScotland must have her preferred relationship with rUK, once she's worked out what it is?

    If iScotland were in the EU and rUK outside it, the SNP would have to blame "FEUBs" instead of FEBs, "the Brussels media" instead of the London media, and "Regierungsviertel" instead of Westminster. And the ratings agencies. And their Aunt Fanny. Infamy!
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Sandpit said:

    If this is accurate, then it makes the proposed referendum even more ludicrous. If the SNP don't even want to be in the EU (necessarily), why then would leaving it be considered just cause for Referendum 2: Refer Harder?

    ttps://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/841707831330000897

    That's what happens when she's opportunistically making things up as she goes along!
    Alex Salmond and his glove puppet do appear to be singing from different song sheets. Not sure what the Scottish electorate will make of it, Indyref(1) was confusing enough for them.
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited March 2017

    If this is accurate, then it makes the proposed referendum even more ludicrous. If the SNP don't even want to be in the EU (necessarily), why then would leaving it be considered just cause for Referendum 2: Refer Harder?

    https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/841707831330000897

    Sindy Remainers are less than 30% of the Scottish electorate. They are trying to construct an EEA compromise position.

    It would come with a newly assumed liability for making EEA Grant payments to EU member states to get access to the single market.

    Immigration isn't an issue for Scotland at the moment as far as I can see. London is the honeypot.

    That might change if your average 16 hour a week worker with three kids wants UK style tax credits . The UK will be off limits post Brexit. Scotland and the SNPs welfare state won't be.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    Alistair said:

    If this is accurate, then it makes the proposed referendum even more ludicrous. If the SNP don't even want to be in the EU (necessarily), why then would leaving it be considered just cause for Referendum 2: Refer Harder?

    https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/841707831330000897

    Uh, single market access - not EU membership - has been the red line from the very​ moment the EU ref result was known. Sturgeon repeated it ad nauseum since June.

    Anyone who is siprised by this either hasn't been paying attention, is an idiot or is trying to generate headlines.
    or maybe they are just bored by the continuing bollocks emanating from Bute House
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,119
    chestnut said:

    If this is accurate, then it makes the proposed referendum even more ludicrous. If the SNP don't even want to be in the EU (necessarily), why then would leaving it be considered just cause for Referendum 2: Refer Harder?

    https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/841707831330000897

    Sindy Remainers are less than 30% of the Scottish electorate. They are trying to construct an EEA compromise position.

    It would come with a newly assumed liability for making EEA Grant payments to EU member states to get access to the single market.

    Immigration isn't an issue for Scotland at the moment as far as I can see. London is the honeypot.

    That might change if your average 16 hour a week worker with three kids wants UK style tax credits . The UK will be off limits post Brexit. Scotland and the SNPs welfare state won't be.
    iScotland's welfare state would be so tiny, you'd have to be careful not to stand on it.
  • Options
    Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,601
    Alistair said:

    If this is accurate, then it makes the proposed referendum even more ludicrous. If the SNP don't even want to be in the EU (necessarily), why then would leaving it be considered just cause for Referendum 2: Refer Harder?

    https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/841707831330000897

    Uh, single market access - not EU membership - has been the red line from the very​ moment the EU ref result was known. Sturgeon repeated it ad nauseum since June.

    Anyone who is siprised by this either hasn't been paying attention, is an idiot or is trying to generate headlines.
    So, just to be clear, Scots are to be urged to leave the UK in order to remove new tariffs from circa 15% of Scottish trade (that with the EU) regardless of the consequence that circa 70% of tariff free Scottish trade (that with the rest of the UK) will then be subject to new tariffs of an equivalent scale to those removed.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,060

    Alistair said:

    If this is accurate, then it makes the proposed referendum even more ludicrous. If the SNP don't even want to be in the EU (necessarily), why then would leaving it be considered just cause for Referendum 2: Refer Harder?

    https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/841707831330000897

    Uh, single market access - not EU membership - has been the red line from the very​ moment the EU ref result was known. Sturgeon repeated it ad nauseum since June.

    Anyone who is siprised by this either hasn't been paying attention, is an idiot or is trying to generate headlines.
    So, just to be clear, Scots are to be urged to leave the UK in order to remove new tariffs from circa 15% of Scottish trade (that with the EU) regardless of the consequence that circa 70% of tariff free Scottish trade (that with the rest of the UK) will then be subject to new tariffs of an equivalent scale to those removed.
    And why would the rUK have tariffs with the Single Market? Is the No campaign going to be arguing that Theresa May can't get a deal?
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    Alistair said:

    If this is accurate, then it makes the proposed referendum even more ludicrous. If the SNP don't even want to be in the EU (necessarily), why then would leaving it be considered just cause for Referendum 2: Refer Harder?

    https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/841707831330000897

    Uh, single market access - not EU membership - has been the red line from the very​ moment the EU ref result was known. Sturgeon repeated it ad nauseum since June.

    Anyone who is siprised by this either hasn't been paying attention, is an idiot or is trying to generate headlines.
    So, just to be clear, Scots are to be urged to leave the UK in order to remove new tariffs from circa 15% of Scottish trade (that with the EU) regardless of the consequence that circa 70% of tariff free Scottish trade (that with the rest of the UK) will then be subject to new tariffs of an equivalent scale to those removed.
    as I said in Indyref1 its not too wee or too poor that will kill it, it's too stupid

  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,942

    Alistair said:

    If this is accurate, then it makes the proposed referendum even more ludicrous. If the SNP don't even want to be in the EU (necessarily), why then would leaving it be considered just cause for Referendum 2: Refer Harder?

    https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/841707831330000897

    Uh, single market access - not EU membership - has been the red line from the very​ moment the EU ref result was known. Sturgeon repeated it ad nauseum since June.

    Anyone who is siprised by this either hasn't been paying attention, is an idiot or is trying to generate headlines.
    So, just to be clear, Scots are to be urged to leave the UK in order to remove new tariffs from circa 15% of Scottish trade (that with the EU) regardless of the consequence that circa 70% of tariff free Scottish trade (that with the rest of the UK) will then be subject to new tariffs of an equivalent scale to those removed.
    And why would the rUK have tariffs with the Single Market? Is the No campaign going to be arguing that Theresa May can't get a deal?
    It is not the No Campaign which are arguing that, it is the SNP. You are addressing your question to the wrong people.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    Alistair said:

    If this is accurate, then it makes the proposed referendum even more ludicrous. If the SNP don't even want to be in the EU (necessarily), why then would leaving it be considered just cause for Referendum 2: Refer Harder?

    https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/841707831330000897

    Uh, single market access - not EU membership - has been the red line from the very​ moment the EU ref result was known. Sturgeon repeated it ad nauseum since June.

    Anyone who is siprised by this either hasn't been paying attention, is an idiot or is trying to generate headlines.
    So, just to be clear, Scots are to be urged to leave the UK in order to remove new tariffs from circa 15% of Scottish trade (that with the EU) regardless of the consequence that circa 70% of tariff free Scottish trade (that with the rest of the UK) will then be subject to new tariffs of an equivalent scale to those removed.
    And why would the rUK have tariffs with the Single Market? Is the No campaign going to be arguing that Theresa May can't get a deal?
    It is not the No Campaign which are arguing that, it is the SNP. You are addressing your question to the wrong people.
    oh why confuse him with facts
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,060

    Alistair said:

    If this is accurate, then it makes the proposed referendum even more ludicrous. If the SNP don't even want to be in the EU (necessarily), why then would leaving it be considered just cause for Referendum 2: Refer Harder?

    https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/841707831330000897

    Uh, single market access - not EU membership - has been the red line from the very​ moment the EU ref result was known. Sturgeon repeated it ad nauseum since June.

    Anyone who is siprised by this either hasn't been paying attention, is an idiot or is trying to generate headlines.
    So, just to be clear, Scots are to be urged to leave the UK in order to remove new tariffs from circa 15% of Scottish trade (that with the EU) regardless of the consequence that circa 70% of tariff free Scottish trade (that with the rest of the UK) will then be subject to new tariffs of an equivalent scale to those removed.
    And why would the rUK have tariffs with the Single Market? Is the No campaign going to be arguing that Theresa May can't get a deal?
    It is not the No Campaign which are arguing that, it is the SNP. You are addressing your question to the wrong people.
    Wulfrun Phil is from the SNP?
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    CyanCyan Posts: 1,262

    Alistair said:

    If this is accurate, then it makes the proposed referendum even more ludicrous. If the SNP don't even want to be in the EU (necessarily), why then would leaving it be considered just cause for Referendum 2: Refer Harder?

    https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/841707831330000897

    Uh, single market access - not EU membership - has been the red line from the very​ moment the EU ref result was known. Sturgeon repeated it ad nauseum since June.

    Anyone who is siprised by this either hasn't been paying attention, is an idiot or is trying to generate headlines.
    So, just to be clear, Scots are to be urged to leave the UK in order to remove new tariffs from circa 15% of Scottish trade (that with the EU) regardless of the consequence that circa 70% of tariff free Scottish trade (that with the rest of the UK) will then be subject to new tariffs of an equivalent scale to those removed.
    And why would the rUK have tariffs with the Single Market? Is the No campaign going to be arguing that Theresa May can't get a deal?
    Aren't there tariffs between the EU customs union and all countries outside it?
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,942

    Alistair said:

    If this is accurate, then it makes the proposed referendum even more ludicrous. If the SNP don't even want to be in the EU (necessarily), why then would leaving it be considered just cause for Referendum 2: Refer Harder?

    https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/841707831330000897

    Uh, single market access - not EU membership - has been the red line from the very​ moment the EU ref result was known. Sturgeon repeated it ad nauseum since June.

    Anyone who is siprised by this either hasn't been paying attention, is an idiot or is trying to generate headlines.
    So, just to be clear, Scots are to be urged to leave the UK in order to remove new tariffs from circa 15% of Scottish trade (that with the EU) regardless of the consequence that circa 70% of tariff free Scottish trade (that with the rest of the UK) will then be subject to new tariffs of an equivalent scale to those removed.
    And why would the rUK have tariffs with the Single Market? Is the No campaign going to be arguing that Theresa May can't get a deal?
    It is not the No Campaign which are arguing that, it is the SNP. You are addressing your question to the wrong people.
    Wulfrun Phil is from the SNP?
    He was summarising the SNP argument. It is they who have said they don't want to leave the Single Market. Everything he has said derives from the SNP position on the EU and Brexit.

    On the specific issue of the EU, if the UK has tariff free trade with the Single Market then the SNP argument is null and void. If it does not have tariff free trade then Scotland rejoining the Single Market will result in tariffs with the rest of the UK.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,332

    Alistair said:

    If this is accurate, then it makes the proposed referendum even more ludicrous. If the SNP don't even want to be in the EU (necessarily), why then would leaving it be considered just cause for Referendum 2: Refer Harder?

    https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/841707831330000897

    Uh, single market access - not EU membership - has been the red line from the very​ moment the EU ref result was known. Sturgeon repeated it ad nauseum since June.

    Anyone who is siprised by this either hasn't been paying attention, is an idiot or is trying to generate headlines.
    So, just to be clear, Scots are to be urged to leave the UK in order to remove new tariffs from circa 15% of Scottish trade (that with the EU) regardless of the consequence that circa 70% of tariff free Scottish trade (that with the rest of the UK) will then be subject to new tariffs of an equivalent scale to those removed.
    Thinking this through.. it's possible that if the deal is right (for Scotland) and indyref2 handled sensitively by Westminster, and opportunistically by the SNP, that Scotland will reject independence by an even larger margin than last time.

    Scotland could get an awful lot from a post-Brexit globally dynamic Britain. There are many carrots to dangle.

    It's unlikely, but not impossible. I'd say (at present) 50% chance of independence and 50% chance of union (and a 20% chance of a bigger No vote than last time)
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,060
    edited March 2017

    Alistair said:

    If this is accurate, then it makes the proposed referendum even more ludicrous. If the SNP don't even want to be in the EU (necessarily), why then would leaving it be considered just cause for Referendum 2: Refer Harder?

    https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/841707831330000897

    Uh, single market access - not EU membership - has been the red line from the very​ moment the EU ref result was known. Sturgeon repeated it ad nauseum since June.

    Anyone who is siprised by this either hasn't been paying attention, is an idiot or is trying to generate headlines.
    So, just to be clear, Scots are to be urged to leave the UK in order to remove new tariffs from circa 15% of Scottish trade (that with the EU) regardless of the consequence that circa 70% of tariff free Scottish trade (that with the rest of the UK) will then be subject to new tariffs of an equivalent scale to those removed.
    And why would the rUK have tariffs with the Single Market? Is the No campaign going to be arguing that Theresa May can't get a deal?
    It is not the No Campaign which are arguing that, it is the SNP. You are addressing your question to the wrong people.
    Wulfrun Phil is from the SNP?
    He was summarising the SNP argument. It is they who have said they don't want to leave the Single Market. Everything he has said derives from the SNP position on the EU and Brexit.

    On the specific issue of the EU, if the UK has tariff free trade with the Single Market then the SNP argument is null and void. If it does not have tariff free trade then Scotland rejoining the Single Market will result in tariffs with the rest of the UK.
    Zero tariffs are not the only benefit of being in the single market so to argue that Scotland inside the single market with rUK outside but with an FTA would be the same as Scotland in the UK with an FTA would be to negate most of what you've ever written about the subject over the years.
  • Options
    So am I understanding this correctly. Nicola makes a big announcement for a referendum between Autumn 2018 and Spring 2019 but this referendum is not to join the EU but to apply to join the EEA.

    If this is the case it is a huge mistake as she has not only misled the public she is attempting to con her own supporters. The debates next week in the Scottish Parliament in front of the Scottish public could see her made to look ridiculous.

    How the mantle has slipped
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,942

    Alistair said:

    If this is accurate, then it makes the proposed referendum even more ludicrous. If the SNP don't even want to be in the EU (necessarily), why then would leaving it be considered just cause for Referendum 2: Refer Harder?

    https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/841707831330000897

    Uh, single market access - not EU membership - has been the red line from the very​ moment the EU ref result was known. Sturgeon repeated it ad nauseum since June.

    Anyone who is siprised by this either hasn't been paying attention, is an idiot or is trying to generate headlines.
    So, just to be clear, Scots are to be urged to leave the UK in order to remove new tariffs from circa 15% of Scottish trade (that with the EU) regardless of the consequence that circa 70% of tariff free Scottish trade (that with the rest of the UK) will then be subject to new tariffs of an equivalent scale to those removed.
    And why would the rUK have tariffs with the Single Market? Is the No campaign going to be arguing that Theresa May can't get a deal?
    It is not the No Campaign which are arguing that, it is the SNP. You are addressing your question to the wrong people.
    Wulfrun Phil is from the SNP?
    He was summarising the SNP argument. It is they who have said they don't want to leave the Single Market. Everything he has said derives from the SNP position on the EU and Brexit.

    On the specific issue of the EU, if the UK has tariff free trade with the Single Market then the SNP argument is null and void. If it does not have tariff free trade then Scotland rejoining the Single Market will result in tariffs with the rest of the UK.
    Zero tariffs are not the only benefit of being in the single market so to argue that Scotland inside the single market with rUK outside but with an FTA would be the same as Scotland in the UK with an FTA would be to negate most of what you've ever written about the subject over the years.
    Not at all. It is not me you have to convince, it is the EU. I prefer an EEA solution to Brexit. I also favour Scottish Independence. But the SNP argument that they will be able to remain in the EU but have no barriers to trade with the UK is simply fanciful.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,060

    Alistair said:

    If this is accurate, then it makes the proposed referendum even more ludicrous. If the SNP don't even want to be in the EU (necessarily), why then would leaving it be considered just cause for Referendum 2: Refer Harder?

    https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/841707831330000897

    Uh, single market access - not EU membership - has been the red line from the very​ moment the EU ref result was known. Sturgeon repeated it ad nauseum since June.

    Anyone who is siprised by this either hasn't been paying attention, is an idiot or is trying to generate headlines.
    So, just to be clear, Scots are to be urged to leave the UK in order to remove new tariffs from circa 15% of Scottish trade (that with the EU) regardless of the consequence that circa 70% of tariff free Scottish trade (that with the rest of the UK) will then be subject to new tariffs of an equivalent scale to those removed.
    And why would the rUK have tariffs with the Single Market? Is the No campaign going to be arguing that Theresa May can't get a deal?
    It is not the No Campaign which are arguing that, it is the SNP. You are addressing your question to the wrong people.
    Wulfrun Phil is from the SNP?
    He was summarising the SNP argument. It is they who have said they don't want to leave the Single Market. Everything he has said derives from the SNP position on the EU and Brexit.

    On the specific issue of the EU, if the UK has tariff free trade with the Single Market then the SNP argument is null and void. If it does not have tariff free trade then Scotland rejoining the Single Market will result in tariffs with the rest of the UK.
    Zero tariffs are not the only benefit of being in the single market so to argue that Scotland inside the single market with rUK outside but with an FTA would be the same as Scotland in the UK with an FTA would be to negate most of what you've ever written about the subject over the years.
    Not at all. It is not me you have to convince, it is the EU. I prefer an EEA solution to Brexit. I also favour Scottish Independence. But the SNP argument that they will be able to remain in the EU but have no barriers to trade with the UK is simply fanciful.
    You think it's fanciful because you don't want to imagine rUK revisiting Brexit when faced with that scenario.
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    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    In other news, Theresa May is touring the nation to build a consensus for Brexit. Perhaps she should be starting by trying to build a consensus within her own party.

    I suspect that is the real reason for the countrywide tour. Shackleton agreed to try to march to safety not because he believed it could succeed, but because making a spectacular failure of an effort would convince his men of the pointlessness of that option.

    Sometimes it is necessary to go outside of a group to show the group what it is.
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    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792

    If this is accurate, then it makes the proposed referendum even more ludicrous. If the SNP don't even want to be in the EU (necessarily), why then would leaving it be considered just cause for Referendum 2: Refer Harder?

    https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/841707831330000897

    The half-hearted Indyref Mark 2 offensive has already collapsed in on itself and ground to a halt. A debacle.
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024

    If this is accurate, then it makes the proposed referendum even more ludicrous. If the SNP don't even want to be in the EU (necessarily), why then would leaving it be considered just cause for Referendum 2: Refer Harder?

    https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/841707831330000897

    The half-hearted Indyref Mark 2 offensive has already collapsed in on itself and ground to a halt. A debacle.
    Yes it has. May didn't even say she doesn't want ACCESS to the single market.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,294
    edited March 2017
    nunu said:

    If this is accurate, then it makes the proposed referendum even more ludicrous. If the SNP don't even want to be in the EU (necessarily), why then would leaving it be considered just cause for Referendum 2: Refer Harder?

    https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/841707831330000897

    The half-hearted Indyref Mark 2 offensive has already collapsed in on itself and ground to a halt. A debacle.
    Yes it has. May didn't even say she doesn't want ACCESS to the single market.
    Is this the first big mistake by Nicola
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    nunu said:

    If this is accurate, then it makes the proposed referendum even more ludicrous. If the SNP don't even want to be in the EU (necessarily), why then would leaving it be considered just cause for Referendum 2: Refer Harder?

    https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/841707831330000897

    The half-hearted Indyref Mark 2 offensive has already collapsed in on itself and ground to a halt. A debacle.
    Yes it has. May didn't even say she doesn't want ACCESS to the single market.
    Full access is the red line.
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    glwglw Posts: 9,549

    So am I understanding this correctly. Nicola makes a big announcement for a referendum between Autumn 2018 and Spring 2019 but this referendum is not to join the EU but to apply to join the EEA.

    If this is the case it is a huge mistake as she has not only misled the public she is attempting to con her own supporters. The debates next week in the Scottish Parliament in front of the Scottish public could see her made to look ridiculous.

    How the mantle has slipped

    It would be bloody hilarious if the Indy Referendum II date is agreed before the Brexit negotiations lead to something like the EEA in all but name. Then Sturgeon would face an Indy referendum where the European factor is taken out of the equation, essentially re-running the referendum of 2014. There must be a decent chance that No could win under such circumstances.
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    Alistair said:

    nunu said:

    If this is accurate, then it makes the proposed referendum even more ludicrous. If the SNP don't even want to be in the EU (necessarily), why then would leaving it be considered just cause for Referendum 2: Refer Harder?

    https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/841707831330000897

    The half-hearted Indyref Mark 2 offensive has already collapsed in on itself and ground to a halt. A debacle.
    Yes it has. May didn't even say she doesn't want ACCESS to the single market.
    Full access is the red line.
    Nicola constantly refers to the 60% who voted to remain which de facto is stay in the EU.

    I am genuinely staggered by her change of stance and cannot see that this has done anything for her reputation - indeed it is almost dishonest
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,928
    I'm not sure Iain Martin writing off the SNP's chances is neccesarily a good indicator of anything much. I can't work out if this EEA gambit is a good move or not yet.
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    edited March 2017
    Ahead of the last debate, the betting on the Dutch result is still way out of line with the polls.

    They show the PVV/Wilders trailing badly now 5-6 seats adrift of the VVD and seemingly more likely to come third than first.

    PVV can be laid at 2.28, I think the chance of a shock either through the debate or tomorrow at the polls is no more than a third.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,283

    If this is accurate, then it makes the proposed referendum even more ludicrous. If the SNP don't even want to be in the EU (necessarily), why then would leaving it be considered just cause for Referendum 2: Refer Harder?

    https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/841707831330000897

    The half-hearted Indyref Mark 2 offensive has already collapsed in on itself and ground to a halt. A debacle.
    I fear this is somewhat premature. Far too much face has been invested in this by Nicola to run away now. It will also undoubtedly have the effect of significantly increasing the vote that the SNP receive in May if it is still alive. Those that want independence will want to vote SNP no matter how inept their Council and government has been.

    That said, she has clearly misstepped here. EEA membership has certain attractions but it is a long way from EU membership (hence the support for it by the likes of @Richard_Tyndall )
    It means that the argument for leaving our single market with rUK is entirely dependent on their deal with the EU. If, as I expect, tariff free trade is ultimately agreed what on earth is the point? If it is not then EEA membership with trade barriers with rUK is a disaster.

    Her strategic move to the left to destroy SLAB has been an undoubted success and promises the SNP a dominant position in Scottish politics for the foreseeable future but in every other respect she has proven to be no Alec Salmond.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Theresa May may have the luxury of no effective opposition party (except in Scotland), but she certainly hasn't got an easy ride in any other respect. I don't think we need to worry about an over-dominant government party, doing whatever it likes, quite yet.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,119
    If there were to be a re-run in South Thanet and Farage stood for UKIP, would Arron Banks' new "Patriot Party" stand against him I wonder?
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    nunu said:

    If this is accurate, then it makes the proposed referendum even more ludicrous. If the SNP don't even want to be in the EU (necessarily), why then would leaving it be considered just cause for Referendum 2: Refer Harder?

    https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/841707831330000897

    The half-hearted Indyref Mark 2 offensive has already collapsed in on itself and ground to a halt. A debacle.
    Yes it has. May didn't even say she doesn't want ACCESS to the single market.
    Full access is the red line.
    Nicola constantly refers to the 60% who voted to remain which de facto is stay in the EU.

    I am genuinely staggered by her change of stance and cannot see that this has done anything for her reputation - indeed it is almost dishonest
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/20/nicola-sturgeon-make-scotlands-place-in-single-market-integral-to-talks

    This is not some mysterious out of the blue statement. It has been completely and totally consistent.

    The faux outrage over this on here is completely hilarious.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    nunu said:

    If this is accurate, then it makes the proposed referendum even more ludicrous. If the SNP don't even want to be in the EU (necessarily), why then would leaving it be considered just cause for Referendum 2: Refer Harder?

    https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/841707831330000897

    The half-hearted Indyref Mark 2 offensive has already collapsed in on itself and ground to a halt. A debacle.
    Yes it has. May didn't even say she doesn't want ACCESS to the single market.
    Full access is the red line.
    Nicola constantly refers to the 60% who voted to remain which de facto is stay in the EU.

    I am genuinely staggered by her change of stance and cannot see that this has done anything for her reputation - indeed it is almost dishonest
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/20/nicola-sturgeon-make-scotlands-place-in-single-market-integral-to-talks

    This is not some mysterious out of the blue statement. It has been completely and totally consistent.

    The faux outrage over this on here is completely hilarious.
    err no

    sophistry wont travel well with the voters
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    isamisam Posts: 40,927

    If there were to be a re-run in South Thanet and Farage stood for UKIP, would Arron Banks' new "Patriot Party" stand against him I wonder?

    Highly unlikely I would have thought.

    Unless Farage and Banks fall out.. maybe not "highly" unlikely then!
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    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    nunu said:

    If this is accurate, then it makes the proposed referendum even more ludicrous. If the SNP don't even want to be in the EU (necessarily), why then would leaving it be considered just cause for Referendum 2: Refer Harder?

    https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/841707831330000897

    The half-hearted Indyref Mark 2 offensive has already collapsed in on itself and ground to a halt. A debacle.
    Yes it has. May didn't even say she doesn't want ACCESS to the single market.
    Full access is the red line.
    Nicola constantly refers to the 60% who voted to remain which de facto is stay in the EU.

    I am genuinely staggered by her change of stance and cannot see that this has done anything for her reputation - indeed it is almost dishonest
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/20/nicola-sturgeon-make-scotlands-place-in-single-market-integral-to-talks

    This is not some mysterious out of the blue statement. It has been completely and totally consistent.

    The faux outrage over this on here is completely hilarious.
    It is by the nature of her statement yesterday shown as misleading at best, dishonest at worst.

    I do not think you will find it hilarious when this hits all the media
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited March 2017
    DavidL said:

    ... If, as I expect, tariff free trade is ultimately agreed what on earth is the point? If it is not then EEA membership with trade barriers with rUK is a disaster. ...

    Actually, the second of those isn't necessarily right. As an EEA member, Scotland could in principle join an EEA free-trade agreement with the UK even if the EU doesn't play ball with us - indeed, Norway and the other EEA states will already be giving this a very high priority:

    The UK is Norway’s most important trading partner, and Norway is the UK’s most important supplier of oil and gas.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-and-norway-announce-new-trade-dialogue

    The EEA option is probably rather a good one for Scotland. It would also be good for Ireland, but that's an even bigger political minefield...
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    edited March 2017
    Cyan said:

    Alistair said:

    If this is accurate, then it makes the proposed referendum even more ludicrous. If the SNP don't even want to be in the EU (necessarily), why then would leaving it be considered just cause for Referendum 2: Refer Harder?

    https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/841707831330000897

    Uh, single market access - not EU membership - has been the red line from the very​ moment the EU ref result was known. Sturgeon repeated it ad nauseum since June.

    Anyone who is siprised by this either hasn't been paying attention, is an idiot or is trying to generate headlines.
    So, just to be clear, Scots are to be urged to leave the UK in order to remove new tariffs from circa 15% of Scottish trade (that with the EU) regardless of the consequence that circa 70% of tariff free Scottish trade (that with the rest of the UK) will then be subject to new tariffs of an equivalent scale to those removed.
    And why would the rUK have tariffs with the Single Market? Is the No campaign going to be arguing that Theresa May can't get a deal?
    Aren't there tariffs between the EU customs union and all countries outside it?
    It's the Common Customs Tariff, underpinned by TARIC.

    http://bit.ly/2iHglsf

    It's worth remembering that the Single Market is only complete for goods. It's also worth pointing out that, agricultural produce aside, the CCT is relatively low e.g. 3.5% on automotive components. Completely swamped by the recent sterling devaluation.

    It's the NTBs and CoO requirements that are going to make life difficult, particularly in those sectors with highly integrated supply chains.
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