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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » NEW PB/Polling Matters podcast: SCOTLAND SPECIAL+ more on Nort

SystemSystem Posts: 11,008
edited March 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » NEW PB/Polling Matters podcast: SCOTLAND SPECIAL+ more on Northern Ireland)

 

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  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    First, like the sun peeking over the hilltops
  • Options
    JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    The Universe is 500,000,000 times as old as Daniel Radcliffe.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,578
    Third! Like SLAB.....and EU membership in the SNP's ever shifting list of priorities....
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,578
    edited March 2017
    From the podcast, for SO and others: Ailsa Henderson: 'there is a claim that Scottish attitudes are distinct that they are more left wing, more meritocratic more communitarian but if you actually go picking for robust evidence of that you typically don't find it'

    Similarly on the EU 'we found that on some of the measures [on Euroscepticism] the attitudes of Scots and those living in England and Wales was indistinguishable...Scots have always been as Eurosceptic as voters in England and in Wales"

    "The fact that Scots are Eurosceptic comes as no surprise at all"


    So unless you have data, a bit less of this 'Scotland and rUK are drifting apart' - its what the SNP would like you to believe - but its not true....
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,578
    Good question:

    If European Union membership is the reason for a referendum, what is the point of holding one if the plan isn’t go back in?

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sturgeon-s-grounds-for-a-new-referendum-have-given-way-beneath-her-xdqzj65wm
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Third! Like SLAB.....and EU membership in the SNP's ever shifting list of priorities....

    I am surprised,as a Scot, you do not know the SNP's only priority. Independence, Independence, Independence.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,578
    surbiton said:

    Third! Like SLAB.....and EU membership in the SNP's ever shifting list of priorities....

    I am surprised,as a Scot, you do not know the SNP's only priority. Independence, Independence, Independence.
    I was giving them the benefit of the doubt.......
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,855

    surbiton said:

    Third! Like SLAB.....and EU membership in the SNP's ever shifting list of priorities....

    I am surprised,as a Scot, you do not know the SNP's only priority. Independence, Independence, Independence.
    I was giving them the benefit of the doubt.......
    Give them an inch and they'll take a mile. Then complain about the inch.
    Remember that "Once in a lifetime" was less than three years ago.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,578
    Sandpit said:

    surbiton said:

    Third! Like SLAB.....and EU membership in the SNP's ever shifting list of priorities....

    I am surprised,as a Scot, you do not know the SNP's only priority. Independence, Independence, Independence.
    I was giving them the benefit of the doubt.......
    Give them an inch and they'll take a mile. Then complain about the inch.
    Remember that "Once in a lifetime" was less than three years ago.
    https://youtu.be/6HyUmDuPa6g
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,578
    Ms Sturgeon's difficulties have not gone un-noticed abroad:

    Nicola Sturgeon's referendum plans were rapidly unravelling last night as it emerged she is to abandon the SNP's policy of rejoining the EU immediately amid record Euroscepticism in Scotland.
    Just a day after the Scottish First Minister demanded a second vote on independence, senior Nationalist sources told reporters Ms Sturgeon would instead try to join the European Free Trade Association, whose members include Norway and Iceland.


    http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/britain/sturgeon-abandons-plan-for-scotland-to-stay-in-eu-35536090.html
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,578
    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/bpolitics/status/842249086329839616


    And if they hadn't it would have been 'intransigence and lack of flexibility - bad for BREXIT negotiations...'

    News organisations aren't fond of 'government controversy taken out and shot' stories....
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,578
    edited March 2017
    Welcome to EFTA!

    A separate Scotland would face years outside the EU single market, it has emerged after Iceland warned it could not start applying to join the European Free Trade Association until it is independent.

    Gudlaugur Thor Thordarson, the Icelandic Foreign Minister, said only sovereign states can be considered for membership under the organisation’s rules.

    He said this “complicates matters” for Scotland if it were to seek entry any earlier, for example, the period between a Yes vote in a referendum and the point at which it actually left the United Kingdom.


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/16/iceland-scotland-could-not-start-applying-efta-independence/

    But, but, but, a Spanish MEP.....
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,137
    edited March 2017
    It is really hard to work out how the NICs issue could have been handled more ineptly. We have the breach of a manifesto commitment without any groundwork or obvious justification, an inability to respond to a highly self interested media, an inability to talk around recalcitrant back benchers, a partial retreat and then a total collapse all within a week with severe damage to the relationship between the PM and her Chancellor who was left hung out to dry. This has been the worst miss-step since May came to power by a distance. The default assumption is that none of it matters because Corbyn is reaching for new levels of incompetence almost daily but this government is diminished at a very unfortunate time.
  • Options
    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792

    Welcome to EFTA!

    A separate Scotland would face years outside the EU single market, it has emerged after Iceland warned it could not start applying to join the European Free Trade Association until it is independent.

    Gudlaugur Thor Thordarson, the Icelandic Foreign Minister, said only sovereign states can be considered for membership under the organisation’s rules.

    He said this “complicates matters” for Scotland if it were to seek entry any earlier, for example, the period between a Yes vote in a referendum and the point at which it actually left the United Kingdom.


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/16/iceland-scotland-could-not-start-applying-efta-independence/

    But, but, but, a Spanish MEP.....

    These Nat upstarts are forever going around announcing how they'll be joining some club or other without ever asking if they're welcome. Ghastly people.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,137

    Welcome to EFTA!

    A separate Scotland would face years outside the EU single market, it has emerged after Iceland warned it could not start applying to join the European Free Trade Association until it is independent.

    Gudlaugur Thor Thordarson, the Icelandic Foreign Minister, said only sovereign states can be considered for membership under the organisation’s rules.

    He said this “complicates matters” for Scotland if it were to seek entry any earlier, for example, the period between a Yes vote in a referendum and the point at which it actually left the United Kingdom.


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/16/iceland-scotland-could-not-start-applying-efta-independence/

    But, but, but, a Spanish MEP.....

    Petition against a second referendum now over 144k. I wonder if it will make 200k today. Looking at the map if I was an SNP councillor in the north east I would be a tad concerned.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,226

    From the podcast, for SO and others: Ailsa Henderson: 'there is a claim that Scottish attitudes are distinct that they are more left wing, more meritocratic more communitarian but if you actually go picking for robust evidence of that you typically don't find it'

    Similarly on the EU 'we found that on some of the measures [on Euroscepticism] the attitudes of Scots and those living in England and Wales was indistinguishable...Scots have always been as Eurosceptic as voters in England and in Wales"

    "The fact that Scots are Eurosceptic comes as no surprise at all"


    So unless you have data, a bit less of this 'Scotland and rUK are drifting apart' - its what the SNP would like you to believe - but its not true....

    The difference is that the Scots don't need to use the EU as a handy scapegoat to blame for every perceived misfortune that comes along, since they already have England for that purpose.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    Welcome to EFTA!

    A separate Scotland would face years outside the EU single market, it has emerged after Iceland warned it could not start applying to join the European Free Trade Association until it is independent.

    Gudlaugur Thor Thordarson, the Icelandic Foreign Minister, said only sovereign states can be considered for membership under the organisation’s rules.

    He said this “complicates matters” for Scotland if it were to seek entry any earlier, for example, the period between a Yes vote in a referendum and the point at which it actually left the United Kingdom.


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/16/iceland-scotland-could-not-start-applying-efta-independence/

    But, but, but, a Spanish MEP.....

    These Nat upstarts are forever going around announcing how they'll be joining some club or other without ever asking if they're welcome. Ghastly people.
    increasingly desperate people

    wee Mrs McTurnip was sounding a bit shrill this week
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,855
    edited March 2017
    DavidL said:

    Welcome to EFTA!

    A separate Scotland would face years outside the EU single market, it has emerged after Iceland warned it could not start applying to join the European Free Trade Association until it is independent.

    Gudlaugur Thor Thordarson, the Icelandic Foreign Minister, said only sovereign states can be considered for membership under the organisation’s rules.

    He said this “complicates matters” for Scotland if it were to seek entry any earlier, for example, the period between a Yes vote in a referendum and the point at which it actually left the United Kingdom.


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/16/iceland-scotland-could-not-start-applying-efta-independence/

    But, but, but, a Spanish MEP.....

    Petition against a second referendum now over 144k. I wonder if it will make 200k today. Looking at the map if I was an SNP councillor in the north east I would be a tad concerned.
    Hopefully the good people of Scotland will make their voices heard in the May elections, that the SNP need to get on with the day job and stop the divisiveness.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    This looks fun

    Gerry sues the Beeb, maybe he can use Jezza as a character witness

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/adams-suing-bbc-over-claims-he-sanctioned-killing-35536069.html
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,137
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Welcome to EFTA!

    A separate Scotland would face years outside the EU single market, it has emerged after Iceland warned it could not start applying to join the European Free Trade Association until it is independent.

    Gudlaugur Thor Thordarson, the Icelandic Foreign Minister, said only sovereign states can be considered for membership under the organisation’s rules.

    He said this “complicates matters” for Scotland if it were to seek entry any earlier, for example, the period between a Yes vote in a referendum and the point at which it actually left the United Kingdom.


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/16/iceland-scotland-could-not-start-applying-efta-independence/

    But, but, but, a Spanish MEP.....

    Petition against a second referendum now over 144k. I wonder if it will make 200k today. Looking at the map if I was an SNP councillor in the north east I would be a tad concerned.
    Hopefully the good people of Scotland will make their voices heard in the May elections, that the SNP need to get on with the day job and stop the divisiveness.
    I hope so too but the collapse of SLAB means they are unlikely to get a bad result. A net gain of councillors is still very likely. Hopefully some of the SNP voters who are unionists (a surprisingly large number generated by the toxicity of the Tories pre Ruth) will start to have second thoughts.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    DavidL said:

    This has been the worst miss-step since May came to power by a distance.

    Before TSE says it, her worst mis-step was the sacking of Osborne...
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,855
    DavidL said:

    It is really hard to work out how the NICs issue could have been handled more ineptly. We have the breach of a manifesto commitment without any groundwork or obvious justification, an inability to respond to a highly self interested media, an inability to talk around recalcitrant back benchers, a partial retreat and then a total collapse all within a week with severe damage to the relationship between the PM and her Chancellor who was left hung out to dry. This has been the worst miss-step since May came to power by a distance. The default assumption is that none of it matters because Corbyn is reaching for new levels of incompetence almost daily but this government is diminished at a very unfortunate time.

    Agree completely. From where they were at the weekend they should have just run with it - they've managed to still upset the self employed, generate negative headlines, now be half a billion a year down and looking weak. Worst of all worlds.

    A thoughtful opposition would have offered unequivocal support for the NI rise and split the Tories. Luckily we don't have a thoughtful Opposition, although with all that's to come in the next couple of years having some decent politicians holding their feet to the fire should be welcomed. Hopefully this is a wake up to the PM call not to be complacent.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Mornings always feel better when you wake up to a betting win.

    Thanks in particular to @Pulpstar and @rcs1000 for putting me onto the Dutch opportunity.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,137
    Scott_P said:

    DavidL said:

    This has been the worst miss-step since May came to power by a distance.

    Before TSE says it, her worst mis-step was the sacking of Osborne...
    It was not so much the sacking, I don't see how he could have remained as Chancellor after the result, but the petty and vindictive way she did it. It was ungracious and completely failed to recognise that she would not have had a majority government to lead without his efforts.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,855
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Welcome to EFTA!

    A separate Scotland would face years outside the EU single market, it has emerged after Iceland warned it could not start applying to join the European Free Trade Association until it is independent.

    Gudlaugur Thor Thordarson, the Icelandic Foreign Minister, said only sovereign states can be considered for membership under the organisation’s rules.

    He said this “complicates matters” for Scotland if it were to seek entry any earlier, for example, the period between a Yes vote in a referendum and the point at which it actually left the United Kingdom.


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/16/iceland-scotland-could-not-start-applying-efta-independence/

    But, but, but, a Spanish MEP.....

    Petition against a second referendum now over 144k. I wonder if it will make 200k today. Looking at the map if I was an SNP councillor in the north east I would be a tad concerned.
    Hopefully the good people of Scotland will make their voices heard in the May elections, that the SNP need to get on with the day job and stop the divisiveness.
    I hope so too but the collapse of SLAB means they are unlikely to get a bad result. A net gain of councillors is still very likely. Hopefully some of the SNP voters who are unionists (a surprisingly large number generated by the toxicity of the Tories pre Ruth) will start to have second thoughts.
    Yes, unfortunately SLAB still have further to fall. A good number of Tory gains from the nationalists in the north east and borders will help send the message though.
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    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    I am going to predict that there will be no second Independence Referendum held before the Holyrood elections in 2021 despite the SNP's receeding window of opportunity to hold one as Brexit draws nearer. There is simple no appetite in Scotland for a repeat of the two year Indy Ref campaign and vote held in 2014 while memories of that divisive campaign remain so fresh in the minds of many Scots on both sides.

    The SNP have decided yet again to put their domestic obligations as a Government on hold in favour of concentrating on the UK Brexit last July in the hope that it would push a Yes vote over the line in the polls. And they have thrown everything including the kitchen sink of Sturgeon's personal reputation as a politician in a bid to drive a grudge and grievance wedge between the rest of the UK and Scotland over the last eight months. They failed, and more importantly, they forgot that the loss of their majority at Holyrood was a clear message from the Scottish electorate that it was now time to get on with the day job of focusing on the economy and running public services.

    When Scotland voted in the Holyrood election last year, we were in no doubt that we were facing an EU Referendum just two months later. And yet the SNP led by new Leader Nicola Sturgeon still failed to retain the majority the party had achieved in 2011. How quickly we forget that the whole campaign that delivered that result ended up being framed around the need to provide a strong opposition to hold the SNP Government to account on both constitutional and domestic issues.

    And while Scotland saw a huge increase in political engagement during that last two year Indepedence campaign, be in no doubt about just how incredible nasty and divisive the campaign was towards the end, pitting family and friends against each other. The EU Referendum campaign or result never came close to matching that or Nicola Sturgeon's hysterical rhetoric in the aftermath because the ties to the Union still remain far stronger than those to the EU we only joined four decades ago. And another key point, Scotland has its first local elections in six years this May because this is the first time we could fit them in seperately!! The whole country is facing activist/voter fatigue!
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    Scott_P said:

    DavidL said:

    This has been the worst miss-step since May came to power by a distance.

    Before TSE says it, her worst mis-step was the sacking of Osborne...
    To be fair to Hammond, his Budget didn't reach the dizzying heights of an Osborne Omnishambles.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Theresa May's worst mistake so far by some distance was "citizens of nowhere". It set the tone of a sour, little England government that will serve it very ill in the upcoming negotiations.

    £500 million a year is a bagatelle in comparison. And we all knew that the populist right of the Conservative party is unappeasable, didn't we? Rather than constantly paying them Danegeld, Theresa May should have called an early election and given herself the space to govern as she thinks fit.

    So her second worst mistake, stilll remediable, is not to have called a general election yet.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:

    DavidL said:

    This has been the worst miss-step since May came to power by a distance.

    Before TSE says it, her worst mis-step was the sacking of Osborne...
    It was not so much the sacking, I don't see how he could have remained as Chancellor after the result, but the petty and vindictive way she did it. It was ungracious and completely failed to recognise that she would not have had a majority government to lead without his efforts.
    she also wouldnt have had 14 police investigations
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,855
    Scott_P said:

    DavidL said:

    This has been the worst miss-step since May came to power by a distance.

    Before TSE says it, her worst mis-step was the sacking of Osborne...
    Nah, she had to do that. Osborne's overblown rhetoric about punishment budgets meant that he'd burned his bridges with the membership and the PCP.

    That said, hopefully we'll see Osborne and Gove back on the front benches after they've served their penance - they're too talented to be permanently exiled.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_P said:

    DavidL said:

    This has been the worst miss-step since May came to power by a distance.

    Before TSE says it, her worst mis-step was the sacking of Osborne...
    Nah, she had to do that. Osborne's overblown rhetoric about punishment budgets meant that he'd burned his bridges with the membership and the PCP.

    That said, hopefully we'll see Osborne and Gove back on the front benches after they've served their penance - they're too talented to be permanently exiled.
    Osbornes making too much wedge to go back to being a minister
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,924
    edited March 2017
    My take aways from last night:

    (1) The main centre-right party always seems to be slightly under-estimated in polls. (See also the Conservatives, and the PP).
    (2) If a party has consistently underperformed its poll scores, it is likely to do so again.
    (3) There is no overarching narrative. Each country and election is different.

    Edit to add: bleached, swept back, blonde hair looks weird and does not add to your appeal to voters.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,578

    This looks fun

    Gerry sues the Beeb, maybe he can use Jezza as a character witness

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/adams-suing-bbc-over-claims-he-sanctioned-killing-35536069.html

    This is an attempt to rewrite history."

    Well, he'd know all about that......
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,137

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_P said:

    DavidL said:

    This has been the worst miss-step since May came to power by a distance.

    Before TSE says it, her worst mis-step was the sacking of Osborne...
    Nah, she had to do that. Osborne's overblown rhetoric about punishment budgets meant that he'd burned his bridges with the membership and the PCP.

    That said, hopefully we'll see Osborne and Gove back on the front benches after they've served their penance - they're too talented to be permanently exiled.
    Osbornes making too much wedge to go back to being a minister
    If he was offered a senior role he would take it in a heartbeat.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,137
    rcs1000 said:

    My take aways from last night:

    (1) The main centre-right party always seems to be slightly under-estimated in polls. (See also the Conservatives, and the PP).
    (2) If a party has consistently underperformed its poll scores, it is likely to do so again.
    (3) There is no overarching narrative. Each country and election is different.

    Edit to add: bleached, swept back, blonde hair looks weird and does not add to your appeal to voters.

    Hard to say how much the Turkish spat and the government 's robust response affected the result. It certainly did them no harm.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,578
    DavidL said:

    Welcome to EFTA!

    A separate Scotland would face years outside the EU single market, it has emerged after Iceland warned it could not start applying to join the European Free Trade Association until it is independent.

    Gudlaugur Thor Thordarson, the Icelandic Foreign Minister, said only sovereign states can be considered for membership under the organisation’s rules.

    He said this “complicates matters” for Scotland if it were to seek entry any earlier, for example, the period between a Yes vote in a referendum and the point at which it actually left the United Kingdom.


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/16/iceland-scotland-could-not-start-applying-efta-independence/

    But, but, but, a Spanish MEP.....

    Petition against a second referendum now over 144k. I wonder if it will make 200k today. Looking at the map if I was an SNP councillor in the north east I would be a tad concerned.
    Apart from the revolt in the SNP's original heartland (and apathy in its new 'City of Freedom' - as a Forfarian I shall spare the site my opinion of Dundee...) - its interesting to see how the rest of the UK is keeping out of it - only handfuls of voters in constituencies outside Scotland...
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,924
    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    My take aways from last night:

    (1) The main centre-right party always seems to be slightly under-estimated in polls. (See also the Conservatives, and the PP).
    (2) If a party has consistently underperformed its poll scores, it is likely to do so again.
    (3) There is no overarching narrative. Each country and election is different.

    Edit to add: bleached, swept back, blonde hair looks weird and does not add to your appeal to voters.

    Hard to say how much the Turkish spat and the government 's robust response affected the result. It certainly did them no harm.
    I'm sorry, but i read PB, and the consensus was that this was good news for the PVV and bad for the VVD.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited March 2017
    rcs1000 said:

    My take aways from last night:

    (1) The main centre-right party always seems to be slightly under-estimated in polls. (See also the Conservatives, and the PP).
    (2) If a party has consistently underperformed its poll scores, it is likely to do so again.
    (3) There is no overarching narrative. Each country and election is different.

    Edit to add: bleached, swept back, blonde hair looks weird and does not add to your appeal to voters.

    I don't know - it would suit your Dad.

    OGH Trump of Bedford Town

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Napoleon_of_Notting_Hill

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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    The more I think about it the more I think No will win at a canter. There is no compelling argument for Yes economic or democratic. In the Union they have around 10% of UK legislative power and they are one of four nations, in the EU they will have around 1.2% of legislative power and be 1 of 28 nations. Additionally everyone knows the direction of travel within the EU is to centralise power to Brussels while the direction in the UK has been the opposite.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,137
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    My take aways from last night:

    (1) The main centre-right party always seems to be slightly under-estimated in polls. (See also the Conservatives, and the PP).
    (2) If a party has consistently underperformed its poll scores, it is likely to do so again.
    (3) There is no overarching narrative. Each country and election is different.

    Edit to add: bleached, swept back, blonde hair looks weird and does not add to your appeal to voters.

    Hard to say how much the Turkish spat and the government 's robust response affected the result. It certainly did them no harm.
    I'm sorry, but i read PB, and the consensus was that this was good news for the PVV and bad for the VVD.
    You shouldn't believe everything you read Robert. But PB , and Alastair in particular, seem to have been well ahead of the curve on this one.
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Mornings always feel better when you wake up to a betting win.

    Thanks in particular to @Pulpstar and @rcs1000 for putting me onto the Dutch opportunity.

    Indeed. Thank you. And while I am at it, thank you stating your opinion that Stoke was an easy Labour hold, when Hunt resigned. I believed you, profitably.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,924
    Scott_P said:

    DavidL said:

    This has been the worst miss-step since May came to power by a distance.

    Before TSE says it, her worst mis-step was the sacking of Osborne...
    Picking on self-employed journalists was never going to be a good idea.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    My take aways from last night:

    (1) The main centre-right party always seems to be slightly under-estimated in polls. (See also the Conservatives, and the PP).
    (2) If a party has consistently underperformed its poll scores, it is likely to do so again.
    (3) There is no overarching narrative. Each country and election is different.

    Edit to add: bleached, swept back, blonde hair looks weird and does not add to your appeal to voters.

    Hard to say how much the Turkish spat and the government 's robust response affected the result. It certainly did them no harm.
    I'm sorry, but i read PB, and the consensus was that this was good news for the PVV and bad for the VVD.
    Hmm, I'd have thought the opposite because it gave Rutte a very convenient and easy way to be robust against an Islamic nation/despot with basically zero consequences. Out kipping the kippers, as we would say here.
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,703
    rcs1000 said:

    My take aways from last night:

    (1) The main centre-right party always seems to be slightly under-estimated in polls. (See also the Conservatives, and the PP).
    (2) If a party has consistently underperformed its poll scores, it is likely to do so again.
    (3) There is no overarching narrative. Each country and election is different.

    Edit to add: bleached, swept back, blonde hair looks weird and does not add to your appeal to voters.

    PVV could so easily have come fourth, CDA and D66 seem to be both only one seat behind.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    The SNP have been spectacularly good at focusing attention on the Big Shiny Thing that is independence. And thanks to the Speaker, yesterday turned into Scottish Questions of the Prime Minister. But....there are still big questions around their ability to actually govern. How long can pointing at the Big Shiny Thing keep the Scots from looking rather more closely at what is going on in education, health, housing...?

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    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    Scott_P said:

    DavidL said:

    This has been the worst miss-step since May came to power by a distance.

    Before TSE says it, her worst mis-step was the sacking of Osborne...
    Seconded.....
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,924
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    My take aways from last night:

    (1) The main centre-right party always seems to be slightly under-estimated in polls. (See also the Conservatives, and the PP).
    (2) If a party has consistently underperformed its poll scores, it is likely to do so again.
    (3) There is no overarching narrative. Each country and election is different.

    Edit to add: bleached, swept back, blonde hair looks weird and does not add to your appeal to voters.

    Hard to say how much the Turkish spat and the government 's robust response affected the result. It certainly did them no harm.
    I'm sorry, but i read PB, and the consensus was that this was good news for the PVV and bad for the VVD.
    Hmm, I'd have thought the opposite because it gave Rutte a very convenient and easy way to be robust against an Islamic nation/despot with basically zero consequences. Out kipping the kippers, as we would say here.
    I'm just teasing one particular poster, who never saw a story with negative consequences for the PVV at any point in the election.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Question of the day

    If Tezza has to call a General Election because the Tory majority is "illegal", does that mean triggering Article 50 is "not in compliance with our constitutional requirements" ?

    @MichaelLCrick: Conservative registered treasurer Simon Day referred to Met Police over whether he "knowingly or recklessly" made a false declaration
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    rcs1000 said:

    My take aways from last night:

    (1) The main centre-right party always seems to be slightly under-estimated in polls. (See also the Conservatives, and the PP).
    (2) If a party has consistently underperformed its poll scores, it is likely to do so again.
    (3) There is no overarching narrative. Each country and election is different.

    Edit to add: bleached, swept back, blonde hair looks weird and does not add to your appeal to voters.

    That hair was seriously weird. He looks ike a Lego mini-figure, experimented upon by a small boy with a magnifying glass on a sunny day.
  • Options
    freetochoosefreetochoose Posts: 1,107

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_P said:

    DavidL said:

    This has been the worst miss-step since May came to power by a distance.

    Before TSE says it, her worst mis-step was the sacking of Osborne...
    Nah, she had to do that. Osborne's overblown rhetoric about punishment budgets meant that he'd burned his bridges with the membership and the PCP.

    That said, hopefully we'll see Osborne and Gove back on the front benches after they've served their penance - they're too talented to be permanently exiled.
    Osbornes making too much wedge to go back to being a minister
    Yes, he'll become the tory equivalent of David Milliband, sniping from the sidelines and earning a fortune.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    Scott_P said:

    Question of the day

    If Tezza has to call a General Election because the Tory majority is "illegal", does that mean triggering Article 50 is "not in compliance with our constitutional requirements" ?

    @MichaelLCrick: Conservative registered treasurer Simon Day referred to Met Police over whether he "knowingly or recklessly" made a false declaration

    I think you'll find Royal Assent is Top Trumps. Another dream crushed.....
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Scott_P said:

    Question of the day

    If Tezza has to call a General Election because the Tory majority is "illegal", does that mean triggering Article 50 is "not in compliance with our constitutional requirements" ?

    @MichaelLCrick: Conservative registered treasurer Simon Day referred to Met Police over whether he "knowingly or recklessly" made a false declaration

    Answer: no.

    By the way, these potential cases against Conservative MPs make it harder for Theresa May to orchestrate an early general election. She wouldn't want candidates who were subsequently going to be disqualified from office but she won't know what's happening to them until the investigation is concluded.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,116

    Scott_P said:

    Question of the day

    If Tezza has to call a General Election because the Tory majority is "illegal", does that mean triggering Article 50 is "not in compliance with our constitutional requirements" ?

    @MichaelLCrick: Conservative registered treasurer Simon Day referred to Met Police over whether he "knowingly or recklessly" made a false declaration

    Answer: no.

    By the way, these potential cases against Conservative MPs make it harder for Theresa May to orchestrate an early general election. She wouldn't want candidates who were subsequently going to be disqualified from office but she won't know what's happening to them until the investigation is concluded.
    Since however unless she somehow has a two-thirds majority in the Commons or a majority in the Lords it's impossible in practical terms anyway, that doesn't matter very much.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,249

    Mornings always feel better when you wake up to a betting win.

    Thanks in particular to @Pulpstar and @rcs1000 for putting me onto the Dutch opportunity.

    If we're thanking tipsters then @freetochoose was on the mark yesterday at Cheltenham.
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited March 2017
    Looking at the Dutch governing coalition, it seems to have fallen from 79 seats to 42 in their election which is a significant rejection, though it is the smaller partner that has taken the biggest beating.

    Wilders has advanced, though not as far as polls or the concerned commentariat suggested, as have the Greens.

    The furthest right and the furthest left? Therefore, some evidence of growing polarisation within the Netherlands?
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited March 2017

    From the podcast, for SO and others: Ailsa Henderson: 'there is a claim that Scottish attitudes are distinct that they are more left wing, more meritocratic more communitarian but if you actually go picking for robust evidence of that you typically don't find it'

    Similarly on the EU 'we found that on some of the measures [on Euroscepticism] the attitudes of Scots and those living in England and Wales was indistinguishable...Scots have always been as Eurosceptic as voters in England and in Wales"

    "The fact that Scots are Eurosceptic comes as no surprise at all"


    So unless you have data, a bit less of this 'Scotland and rUK are drifting apart' - its what the SNP would like you to believe - but its not true....

    If only there had been some recent event to measure how much Scotland Vs the Rest of the UK wanted to stay in the EU. Hmmmmmm.

    Nope, can't think of one.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Alistair said:

    From the podcast, for SO and others: Ailsa Henderson: 'there is a claim that Scottish attitudes are distinct that they are more left wing, more meritocratic more communitarian but if you actually go picking for robust evidence of that you typically don't find it'

    Similarly on the EU 'we found that on some of the measures [on Euroscepticism] the attitudes of Scots and those living in England and Wales was indistinguishable...Scots have always been as Eurosceptic as voters in England and in Wales"

    "The fact that Scots are Eurosceptic comes as no surprise at all"


    So unless you have data, a bit less of this 'Scotland and rUK are drifting apart' - its what the SNP would like you to believe - but its not true....

    If only there had been so.e recent event to measure how much Scotland Vs the Rest of the UK wanted to stay in the EU. Hmmmmmm.

    Nope, can't think of one.
    Scotland has small country syndrome. That's why it voted to remain and cling to its nurse, twice.
  • Options
    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279

    The SNP have been spectacularly good at focusing attention on the Big Shiny Thing that is independence. And thanks to the Speaker, yesterday turned into Scottish Questions of the Prime Minister. But....there are still big questions around their ability to actually govern. How long can pointing at the Big Shiny Thing keep the Scots from looking rather more closely at what is going on in education, health, housing...?

    In recent weeks the SNP have began to start losing votes at Holyrood with alarming regularity.
    The latest crisis facing the SNP Government.
    The Herald - Care homes face crisis due to chronic underfunding and dozens could close

    Twitter
    David Clegg‏@davieclegg Mar 14
    Meanwhile, back to the SNP's "top priority".
    John Swinney's local high school is asking the parents to teach maths.

    Former Scottish Labour Leader Iain Gray...
    Iain Gray‏@IainGrayMSP Mar 14
    Iain Gray Retweeted David Clegg
    Dear John, it's 30 years since I taught maths, but, hate to see you stuck, & you have that indyref2 on your mind, you've got my number.....
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    Scott_P said:

    Question of the day

    If Tezza has to call a General Election because the Tory majority is "illegal", does that mean triggering Article 50 is "not in compliance with our constitutional requirements" ?

    @MichaelLCrick: Conservative registered treasurer Simon Day referred to Met Police over whether he "knowingly or recklessly" made a false declaration

    I don't think having an election declared void nullifies the votes of the MP in question.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,658

    From the podcast, for SO and others: Ailsa Henderson: 'there is a claim that Scottish attitudes are distinct that they are more left wing, more meritocratic more communitarian but if you actually go picking for robust evidence of that you typically don't find it'

    Similarly on the EU 'we found that on some of the measures [on Euroscepticism] the attitudes of Scots and those living in England and Wales was indistinguishable...Scots have always been as Eurosceptic as voters in England and in Wales"

    "The fact that Scots are Eurosceptic comes as no surprise at all"


    So unless you have data, a bit less of this 'Scotland and rUK are drifting apart' - its what the SNP would like you to believe - but its not true....

    And yet a lot of scots and English believe it is true, so it has effect.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,924
    chestnut said:

    Looking at the Dutch governing coalition, it seems to have fallen from 79 seats to 42 in their election which is a significant rejection, though it is the smaller partner that has taken the biggest beating.

    Wilders has advanced, though not as far as polls or the concerned commentariat suggested, as have the Greens.

    The furthest right and the furthest left? Therefore, some evidence of growing polarisation within the Netherlands?

    Although the centrist CDA and D66 both moved forward as much (+4 seats apiece) as the PVV.

    I think the clearest sign in all of this was a rejection of traditional left wing politics (both PvdA and Socialists down).
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,917
    edited March 2017

    From the podcast, for SO and others: Ailsa Henderson: 'there is a claim that Scottish attitudes are distinct that they are more left wing, more meritocratic more communitarian but if you actually go picking for robust evidence of that you typically don't find it'

    Similarly on the EU 'we found that on some of the measures [on Euroscepticism] the attitudes of Scots and those living in England and Wales was indistinguishable...Scots have always been as Eurosceptic as voters in England and in Wales"

    "The fact that Scots are Eurosceptic comes as no surprise at all"


    So unless you have data, a bit less of this 'Scotland and rUK are drifting apart' - its what the SNP would like you to believe - but its not true....

    The fact that attitudes are pretty similar but that close to 50% of people still want independence says to me that the two countries are undoubtedly drifting apart.

    I suspect that if you looked at the way in which English people and those in other parts of Europe view key issues there would be a large degree of agreement, too. But in this day and age, small differences matter. Why? Because our political leaderships find it easier to focus on, and emphasise, these. Who can forget the Tory electoral campaign of 2015, which essentially revolved around telling English voters that if they were not careful appalling Scots would be ruling over them.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    MaxPB said:

    Alistair said:

    From the podcast, for SO and others: Ailsa Henderson: 'there is a claim that Scottish attitudes are distinct that they are more left wing, more meritocratic more communitarian but if you actually go picking for robust evidence of that you typically don't find it'

    Similarly on the EU 'we found that on some of the measures [on Euroscepticism] the attitudes of Scots and those living in England and Wales was indistinguishable...Scots have always been as Eurosceptic as voters in England and in Wales"

    "The fact that Scots are Eurosceptic comes as no surprise at all"


    So unless you have data, a bit less of this 'Scotland and rUK are drifting apart' - its what the SNP would like you to believe - but its not true....

    If only there had been so.e recent event to measure how much Scotland Vs the Rest of the UK wanted to stay in the EU. Hmmmmmm.

    Nope, can't think of one.
    Scotland has small country syndrome. That's why it voted to remain and cling to its nurse, twice.
    Scotland has to vote for independence before it will ever see it has traded Westminster's Mary Poppins for Brussels' Nurse Ratched.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,658
    DavidL said:

    Welcome to EFTA!

    A separate Scotland would face years outside the EU single market, it has emerged after Iceland warned it could not start applying to join the European Free Trade Association until it is independent.

    Gudlaugur Thor Thordarson, the Icelandic Foreign Minister, said only sovereign states can be considered for membership under the organisation’s rules.

    He said this “complicates matters” for Scotland if it were to seek entry any earlier, for example, the period between a Yes vote in a referendum and the point at which it actually left the United Kingdom.


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/16/iceland-scotland-could-not-start-applying-efta-independence/

    But, but, but, a Spanish MEP.....

    Petition against a second referendum now over 144k. I wonder if it will make 200k today. Looking at the map if I was an SNP councillor in the north east I would be a tad concerned.
    Id not take a bet on that just yet.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,936
    fitalass said:

    The SNP have been spectacularly good at focusing attention on the Big Shiny Thing that is independence. And thanks to the Speaker, yesterday turned into Scottish Questions of the Prime Minister. But....there are still big questions around their ability to actually govern. How long can pointing at the Big Shiny Thing keep the Scots from looking rather more closely at what is going on in education, health, housing...?

    In recent weeks the SNP have began to start losing votes at Holyrood with alarming regularity.
    The latest crisis facing the SNP Government.
    The Herald - Care homes face crisis due to chronic underfunding and dozens could close

    Twitter
    David Clegg‏@davieclegg Mar 14
    Meanwhile, back to the SNP's "top priority".
    John Swinney's local high school is asking the parents to teach maths.

    Former Scottish Labour Leader Iain Gray...
    Iain Gray‏@IainGrayMSP Mar 14
    Iain Gray Retweeted David Clegg
    Dear John, it's 30 years since I taught maths, but, hate to see you stuck, & you have that indyref2 on your mind, you've got my number.....
    Very much looking forward to visiting Edinburgh (for http://rarebooksedinburgh.com/) next week - will report back on the views of the book trade!
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,658

    This looks fun

    Gerry sues the Beeb, maybe he can use Jezza as a character witness

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/adams-suing-bbc-over-claims-he-sanctioned-killing-35536069.html

    He might well win although I don't know why he is bothering - he and a lot of others on both sides undoubtedly sanctioned a lot of bad stuff, endorsed it or helped enable it, and anyone who believes he went as far as that is not going to believe any different if he wins the case, plus it's time to move on anyway.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799

    This looks fun

    Gerry sues the Beeb, maybe he can use Jezza as a character witness

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/adams-suing-bbc-over-claims-he-sanctioned-killing-35536069.html

    Would it be possible to lower Gerry Adams' reputation among right-thinking people?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903
    So the Dutch government, first up VVD-D66 looks a very natural match. They are both in the ALDE (Lib Dem) european group. Add CDA to this (I think)

    Gets us to 71 seats, so 4 more needed from somewhere.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,137
    Sean_F said:

    This looks fun

    Gerry sues the Beeb, maybe he can use Jezza as a character witness

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/adams-suing-bbc-over-claims-he-sanctioned-killing-35536069.html

    Would it be possible to lower Gerry Adams' reputation among right-thinking people?
    What would be the Irish equivalent of a shilling?
  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    amazing isn't it ?. The Govt makes a big u turn, yet Corbyn screws up his response and yet it doesn't even rate a thread on PB! How politics has changed.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,658
    Scott_P said:

    Question of the day

    If Tezza has to call a General Election because the Tory majority is "illegal", does that mean triggering Article 50 is "not in compliance with our constitutional requirements" ?

    @MichaelLCrick: Conservative registered treasurer Simon Day referred to Met Police over whether he "knowingly or recklessly" made a false declaration

    The act authorising the referendum was passed by both houses and with a lot more than the government majority only. Nor would she 'have to' call a ge even if the MPs are charged, tried and convicted.

    Seems like a lot of MPs will plead dumb over this stuff, so it's the reckless requirement they'll be vulnerable under.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    Tories fined £70k by electoral commission -- BBC.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,137
    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Welcome to EFTA!

    A separate Scotland would face years outside the EU single market, it has emerged after Iceland warned it could not start applying to join the European Free Trade Association until it is independent.

    Gudlaugur Thor Thordarson, the Icelandic Foreign Minister, said only sovereign states can be considered for membership under the organisation’s rules.

    He said this “complicates matters” for Scotland if it were to seek entry any earlier, for example, the period between a Yes vote in a referendum and the point at which it actually left the United Kingdom.


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/16/iceland-scotland-could-not-start-applying-efta-independence/

    But, but, but, a Spanish MEP.....

    Petition against a second referendum now over 144k. I wonder if it will make 200k today. Looking at the map if I was an SNP councillor in the north east I would be a tad concerned.
    Id not take a bet on that just yet.
    I think that they will lose seats in the north east, Perthshire, Angus, the borders and Edinburgh but this will be more than compensated for by gains in Glasgow, the west and other parts of the Central belt. As I have said I expect them to show a net gain in councillors overall.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799
    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    This looks fun

    Gerry sues the Beeb, maybe he can use Jezza as a character witness

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/adams-suing-bbc-over-claims-he-sanctioned-killing-35536069.html

    Would it be possible to lower Gerry Adams' reputation among right-thinking people?
    What would be the Irish equivalent of a shilling?
    Damages of one euro, perhaps.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,658

    The SNP have been spectacularly good at focusing attention on the Big Shiny Thing that is independence. And thanks to the Speaker, yesterday turned into Scottish Questions of the Prime Minister. But....there are still big questions around their ability to actually govern. How long can pointing at the Big Shiny Thing keep the Scots from looking rather more closely at what is going on in education, health, housing...?

    A while yet.
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,703

    Scott_P said:

    DavidL said:

    This has been the worst miss-step since May came to power by a distance.

    Before TSE says it, her worst mis-step was the sacking of Osborne...
    To be fair to Hammond, his Budget didn't reach the dizzying heights of an Osborne Omnishambles.
    Isn't NI a bigger error than the pasty tax?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,658
    All this talk of calling a ge, hopefully we'll all read those as 'engineer a ge', rather than dispute than she can call one.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    The SNP "Yes, we have no EU membership plans" ought to give the greens some pause for thought.

    I look forward to Wee Patrick's speech...

    "We bitterly oppose the Tories removing Scotland from the EU against our will, so we will wholeheartedly support the SNP stance to not be members instead"
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,137

    amazing isn't it ?. The Govt makes a big u turn, yet Corbyn screws up his response and yet it doesn't even rate a thread on PB! How politics has changed.

    How many Corbyn is crap threads do you want? Even Don did one yesterday.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Clueless ...

    Take Back Control
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,703
    RobD said:
    "Our investigation uncovered numerous failures by a large, well-resourced and experienced Party to ensure that accurate records of spending were maintained and that all of the Party’s spending was reported correctly.

    The rules established by Parliament for political parties and their finances are there to ensure transparency and accountability.

    Where the rules are not followed, it undermines voters’ confidence in our democratic processes, which is why political parties need to take their responsibilities under the legislation seriously."

    Incompetence or worse?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,658
    DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:

    DavidL said:

    This has been the worst miss-step since May came to power by a distance.

    Before TSE says it, her worst mis-step was the sacking of Osborne...
    It was not so much the sacking, I don't see how he could have remained as Chancellor after the result, but the petty and vindictive way she did it. It was ungracious and completely failed to recognise that she would not have had a majority government to lead without his efforts.
    She let it be known not only that she was sacking him but that she personally upbraided him. Theories that could have co e from either side, the simplest answer, given news of her doing so was positively relieved, is she did it, it least because it allowed her to demonstrate how not on board the Cameron train she was without actually disavowing the pm she had served under.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,917
    Scott_P said:

    Clueless ...

    Take Back Control

    Apparently, we have demonstrated to the EU that we are not afraid to walk away from the Brexit talks. I am not sure that they will be all that convinced.

  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,658
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    My take aways from last night:

    (1) The main centre-right party always seems to be slightly under-estimated in polls. (See also the Conservatives, and the PP).
    (2) If a party has consistently underperformed its poll scores, it is likely to do so again.
    (3) There is no overarching narrative. Each country and election is different.

    Edit to add: bleached, swept back, blonde hair looks weird and does not add to your appeal to voters.

    Hard to say how much the Turkish spat and the government 's robust response affected the result. It certainly did them no harm.
    I'm sorry, but i read PB
    Well there's your problem!
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,917
    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:

    DavidL said:

    This has been the worst miss-step since May came to power by a distance.

    Before TSE says it, her worst mis-step was the sacking of Osborne...
    It was not so much the sacking, I don't see how he could have remained as Chancellor after the result, but the petty and vindictive way she did it. It was ungracious and completely failed to recognise that she would not have had a majority government to lead without his efforts.
    She let it be known not only that she was sacking him but that she personally upbraided him. Theories that could have co e from either side, the simplest answer, given news of her doing so was positively relieved, is she did it, it least because it allowed her to demonstrate how not on board the Cameron train she was without actually disavowing the pm she had served under.

    It delighted the right wing press. That's why she did it.

  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799

    RobD said:
    "Our investigation uncovered numerous failures by a large, well-resourced and experienced Party to ensure that accurate records of spending were maintained and that all of the Party’s spending was reported correctly.

    The rules established by Parliament for political parties and their finances are there to ensure transparency and accountability.

    Where the rules are not followed, it undermines voters’ confidence in our democratic processes, which is why political parties need to take their responsibilities under the legislation seriously."

    Incompetence or worse?
    I blame Osborne.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:

    DavidL said:

    This has been the worst miss-step since May came to power by a distance.

    Before TSE says it, her worst mis-step was the sacking of Osborne...
    It was not so much the sacking, I don't see how he could have remained as Chancellor after the result, but the petty and vindictive way she did it. It was ungracious and completely failed to recognise that she would not have had a majority government to lead without his efforts.
    She let it be known not only that she was sacking him but that she personally upbraided him. Theories that could have co e from either side, the simplest answer, given news of her doing so was positively relieved, is she did it, it least because it allowed her to demonstrate how not on board the Cameron train she was without actually disavowing the pm she had served under.

    It delighted the right wing press. That's why she did it.

    Yes, but what on earth were Corbyn and McDonnell doing supporting the fruitcakes ?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,658
    It'd be nice to think the issues of sindy would be so simply and, to my mind, equitably dealt with, because in the end we aren't that different and maybe the snp have overreached too soon etc etc. I am generally pessimistic about it and I'd love to be wrong. But support despite all this is still high, and in the utter nastiness that surrounds the issue the emotive appeal of sindy could still work. And given even plenty of non snp ers will acknowledge the situation has changed since 2014, I'm not sure saying no u til 2021 will work.
  • Options
    Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    On this glorious day of Royal Assent, the real reason we joined the EU

    https://www.facebook.com/TheRawStory/videos/10154338097642235/
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799

    rcs1000 said:

    My take aways from last night:

    (1) The main centre-right party always seems to be slightly under-estimated in polls. (See also the Conservatives, and the PP).
    (2) If a party has consistently underperformed its poll scores, it is likely to do so again.
    (3) There is no overarching narrative. Each country and election is different.

    Edit to add: bleached, swept back, blonde hair looks weird and does not add to your appeal to voters.

    That hair was seriously weird. He looks ike a Lego mini-figure, experimented upon by a small boy with a magnifying glass on a sunny day.
    He looks like a character from Star Trek.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,658
    RobD said:

    Scott_P said:

    Question of the day

    If Tezza has to call a General Election because the Tory majority is "illegal", does that mean triggering Article 50 is "not in compliance with our constitutional requirements" ?

    @MichaelLCrick: Conservative registered treasurer Simon Day referred to Met Police over whether he "knowingly or recklessly" made a false declaration

    I don't think having an election declared void nullifies the votes of the MP in question.
    Especially when that core was not critical. In general a decision would not be entirely invalidated solely because a member on it was later found to be invalid. You'd need a lot more than that.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903
    edited March 2017
    David Davis will probably get his marching orders long before the Osgood/Daphne pairing of Bojo and Fox. He's being far too honest here for his own political good.
  • Options
    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    If the Tories are guilty, won't it be the party's agents who are at risk of fines or imprisonment rather than the MPs?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,658

    Scott_P said:

    DavidL said:

    This has been the worst miss-step since May came to power by a distance.

    Before TSE says it, her worst mis-step was the sacking of Osborne...
    To be fair to Hammond, his Budget didn't reach the dizzying heights of an Osborne Omnishambles.
    Isn't NI a bigger error than the pasty tax?
    Neither was necessarily an error but they caused media storms, and that bloody pasty tax seemed to have a larger one.
This discussion has been closed.