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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Tonight’s Local By-Election Preview : Three CON defences and a LAB one

Warbreck on Blackpool (Con defence, death of sitting member) Result of council at last election (2015): Labour 29, Conservatives 13 (Labour majority of 16) Result of ward at last election (2015): Emboldened denotes elected Conservatives 1,237, 1,197 (37%) Labour 962, 876 (29%) United Kingdom Independence Party 633 (19%) Green Party 250 (8%) Liberal Democrat 237 (7%) EU Referendum Result (2016): REMAIN 21,781 (33%) LEAVE 45,146 (67%) on a turnout of 65% Candidates duly nominated: Kevan Benfold (Lib Dem), Walter Cairns (UKIP), Michele Scott (Con), Ian Treasure (Lab) Weather at the close of polls: Clear, 6°C Estimate: Conservative HOLD (Con 36%, Lab 28%, Lib Dem 25%, UKIP 9%, Green 1%)

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Jonathan

Thirst

RedGeorgie

You estimate Greens will get 1% in Blackpool even though they aren't standing. Impressive.

Sandpit

Well done Harry and Mike for the excellent work in compiling and posting these every week.

RobD

Thanks Harry!

isam

Is this a "talking about myself and how I define myself against others" thread or was that just the last one?

Morris_Dancer

Thanks for this, Mr. Hayfield.

FPT: And whilst I'm not working, if anybody's interest in English history has been piqued, I can strongly recommend a few books.
A Time Traveller's Guide to Medieval England, by Ian Mortimer, is a very engaging look at everyday life, mostly around the 14th century.

In chronological order, some good biographies are:
The Greatest Knight: The Remarkable Life of William Marshal, by Thomas Asbridge
A Great and Terrible King: Edward I and the Forging of Britain, by Marc Morris
The Greatest Traitor: The Life of Sir Roger Mortimer, by Ian Mortimer
The Perfect King: The Life of Edward III, by Ian Mortimer

I really should get myself another medieval history at some point. When I've finished the three books on my to-read pile. And if I have the time. And money.

PlatoSaid

Holy Cats in Leicester

"The evil pair shot one victim with a crossbow, and used a baseball bat with “The Pain” scrawled on it to threaten the 11 children in a sickening campaign of hate at their squalid home.

Nicholas, 47, and Joan, 44, are now facing jail after they were found guilty of nearly 100 offences committed against 11 victims between 1996 and 2006...

The young boys and girls were all aged 16 or under at the time of the vile abuse.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3108261/sick-couple-drugged-kids-with-crack-forced-them-to-carry-out-sex-acts-and-shot-crossbow-darts-at-a-boy/?CMP=Spklr-_-Editorial-_-TheSun-_-News-_-TwImageandlink-_-Statement-_-TWITTER

chestnut

FPT

Alistair said:

chestnut said:

SouthamObserver said:

chestnut said:

I have to give the SNP some credit.

They even have the unionists thinking and talking in separatist language, and they've turned devolution into agitation.

That's pretty impressive for the side that lost by eleven points.

Cameron gave them everything they needed to keep on fighting the morning after the referendum result was announced. And just about everything that has happened since has played into the SNP's hands.

The SNP have thrived due to perceptions of inadequacy with Labour and treachery with the coalition-forming Liberal Democrats. This plus the longstanding emnity towards the Tories fractured the winning Remain vote.

The key to me though is that both their formidable election successes have come at a time when the Scottish left was in disarray yet the 2014 referendum result seemingly guaranteed membership of the United Kingdom "for a generation" so the SNP could not pursue their main objective. A part of their vote was given to them whilst they were being curbed.

Quite what the real SNP vote is with independence as a live, rather than subdued, issue remains to be seen.

I strongly suspect that it's lower than the percentages achieved in 2014, 2015 and 2016.

Err doesn't 2011 answer that question?

Yes, it may well be.

SNP 2011: 902,000
SNP 2015: 1,454,000
SNP 2016: 1,016,000

I see polls (Yougov) telling me anything up to a third of 2015 SNP voters don't actually want independence and a minimum of 16% from 2016.

It's as if there are a few hundred thousand Scottish Margaret Beckett's who thought there would be no harm voting for Jezza/SNP only for the law of unintended consequences to kick in.

In that context, and with Brexit negotiations in play, I can understand why May would be willing to agree a 2021 referendum as it provides an opportunity to unwind these votes.

I can also see why Sturgeon might like this date. The Indy planning last time hadn't addressed certain issues. A long lead in would give no excuse for not being prepared this time.

Bojabob

South Heaton in Newcastle looks vulnerable to the Yellow Surge!

HaroldO

It has been posted before I'm guessing but;
https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/842378752785022979

I think we can see why Sturgeon called the new Scexit, someone was going to blindside her at conference.

AlastairMeeks

isam said:

Is this a "talking about myself and how I define myself against others" thread or was that just the last one?

Isn't that every thread?

isam

AlastairMeeks said:

isam said:

Is this a "talking about myself and how I define myself against others" thread or was that just the last one?

Isn't that every thread?

As an animal loving, mafist who gives a lotta money to charidee but doesn't like to talk about it, I barely have time to notice... those on the left whose politicians like to suck up to the Guardian and Observer deserve all they get.

I weep for my county

MonikerDiCanio

HaroldO said:

It has been posted before I'm guessing but;
https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/842378752785022979

I think we can see why Sturgeon called the new Scexit, someone was going to blindside her at conference.

Once again the vile Salmond wrapping himself in the Saltire and defiling it with his SNP filth. He's a Westminster politician and he doesn't speak for Scots. The last refuge of this revolting scoundrel is nationalism.

isam

PlatoSaid said:

Holy Cats in Leicester

"The evil pair shot one victim with a crossbow, and used a baseball bat with “The Pain” scrawled on it to threaten the 11 children in a sickening campaign of hate at their squalid home.

Nicholas, 47, and Joan, 44, are now facing jail after they were found guilty of nearly 100 offences committed against 11 victims between 1996 and 2006...

The young boys and girls were all aged 16 or under at the time of the vile abuse.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3108261/sick-couple-drugged-kids-with-crack-forced-them-to-carry-out-sex-acts-and-shot-crossbow-darts-at-a-boy/?CMP=Spklr-_-Editorial-_-TheSun-_-News-_-TwImageandlink-_-Statement-_-TWITTER

Look like a couple of thicko Leavers too.. they're all the same

HaroldO

MonikerDiCanio said:

HaroldO said:

It has been posted before I'm guessing but;
https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/842378752785022979

I think we can see why Sturgeon called the new Scexit, someone was going to blindside her at conference.

Once again the vile Salmond wrapping himself in the Saltire and defiling it with his SNP filth. He's a Westminster politician and he doesn't speak for Scots. The last refuge of this revolting scoundrel is nationalism.

Watching a real nationalist in motion is quite depressing, he questions peoples patriotism for not agreeing with him. He's hitting Farage-esque heights now.

isam

Man Utd's opponents, Rostov, have only brought 3 outfield substitutes

MonikerDiCanio

HaroldO said:

MonikerDiCanio said:

HaroldO said:

It has been posted before I'm guessing but;
https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/842378752785022979

I think we can see why Sturgeon called the new Scexit, someone was going to blindside her at conference.

Once again the vile Salmond wrapping himself in the Saltire and defiling it with his SNP filth. He's a Westminster politician and he doesn't speak for Scots. The last refuge of this revolting scoundrel is nationalism.

Watching a real nationalist in motion is quite depressing, he questions peoples patriotism for not agreeing with him. He's hitting Farage-esque heights now.

Five pensions Eck is well insulated from his destructive rhetoric. He's trying to whip up genuine ethnic strife.

Alanbrooke

MonikerDiCanio said:

HaroldO said:

MonikerDiCanio said:

HaroldO said:

It has been posted before I'm guessing but;
https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/842378752785022979

I think we can see why Sturgeon called the new Scexit, someone was going to blindside her at conference.

Once again the vile Salmond wrapping himself in the Saltire and defiling it with his SNP filth. He's a Westminster politician and he doesn't speak for Scots. The last refuge of this revolting scoundrel is nationalism.

Watching a real nationalist in motion is quite depressing, he questions peoples patriotism for not agreeing with him. He's hitting Farage-esque heights now.

Five pensions Eck is well insulated from his destructive rhetoric. He's trying to whip up genuine ethnic strife.

given his wife is 79 this year youd have thought he might want to spend some time with her

PlatoSaid

isam said:

PlatoSaid said:

Holy Cats in Leicester

"The evil pair shot one victim with a crossbow, and used a baseball bat with “The Pain” scrawled on it to threaten the 11 children in a sickening campaign of hate at their squalid home.

Nicholas, 47, and Joan, 44, are now facing jail after they were found guilty of nearly 100 offences committed against 11 victims between 1996 and 2006...

The young boys and girls were all aged 16 or under at the time of the vile abuse.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3108261/sick-couple-drugged-kids-with-crack-forced-them-to-carry-out-sex-acts-and-shot-crossbow-darts-at-a-boy/?CMP=Spklr-_-Editorial-_-TheSun-_-News-_-TwImageandlink-_-Statement-_-TWITTER

Look like a couple of thicko Leavers too.. they're all the same

I've spent today in a war of attrition with my neighbours who keep playing very loud music. I decided to wage my own campaign turned up to 11. My ears are ringing, but after two stints several hours long attempting to drown them out - they've gone silent.

They've had everything I could throw with either a very heavy beat, drumming or yelling vocals. I really can't understand why people are so frigging inconsiderate. I'm as quiet as a mouse.

Toms

Gosh.
The last time I looked the previous thread had DCCCXXXII entries.
That's magnam gratium

MonikerDiCanio

Alanbrooke said:

MonikerDiCanio said:

HaroldO said:

MonikerDiCanio said:

HaroldO said:

It has been posted before I'm guessing but;
https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/842378752785022979

I think we can see why Sturgeon called the new Scexit, someone was going to blindside her at conference.

Once again the vile Salmond wrapping himself in the Saltire and defiling it with his SNP filth. He's a Westminster politician and he doesn't speak for Scots. The last refuge of this revolting scoundrel is nationalism.

Watching a real nationalist in motion is quite depressing, he questions peoples patriotism for not agreeing with him. He's hitting Farage-esque heights now.

Five pensions Eck is well insulated from his destructive rhetoric. He's trying to whip up genuine ethnic strife.

given his wife is 79 this year youd have thought he might want to spend some time with her

Or not. In his base case.

SouthamObserver

Hand in hand ...
https://twitter.com/zekejmiller/status/842463110082486272

Mortimer

In case anyone is still wondering why the left is unpopular in England, a peek at the last thread will confirm that many on the left don't seem that fond of England...

Cyan

Richard_Tyndall said:

Cyan said:

OllyT said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Bojabob, so, because your side lost a vote you no longer love a country that previously you did?

That's rather sad. Sadder still that you feel as much (or more) loyalty to foreigners than your own people.

Mr. Nabavi, indeed, and I wish those who keep raising stupid little regional assemblies in England would learn that lesson and not make an even worse error of judgement.

Although a centrist in political terms I'm an atheist and oppose the idea of an hereditary head of state.a patriot I would have to subscribe to "God Save the Queen" so in all honesty I can't consider myself a patriot either - the concept has pretty much been appropriated by English right -wingers in the UK.

Monarchism is a right-wing thing. Personally I avoid calling Britain the "UK". The UK is a political regime. Britain is a country. Calling Britain "the UK" is like calling France "the fifth Republic". I am English and British but I am not a "UK-er", other than that's the monarchist crap that's written on my passport.

Britain is not and never has been a country.

What's your reason for taking that view? Do you think countries can't contain and be constituted by other countries? So the USSR and Czechoslovakia weren't countries? Your view would imply that there isn't any such thing as British nationalism, British patriotism, British national identity - but there is.

williamglenn

SouthamObserver said:

Hand in hand ...
https://twitter.com/zekejmiller/status/842463110082486272

And May was having such a quiet week...

Alistair

Cyan said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Cyan said:

OllyT said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Bojabob, so, because your side lost a vote you no longer love a country that previously you did?

That's rather sad. Sadder still that you feel as much (or more) loyalty to foreigners than your own people.

Mr. Nabavi, indeed, and I wish those who keep raising stupid little regional assemblies in England would learn that lesson and not make an even worse error of judgement.

Although a centrist in political terms I'm an atheist and oppose the idea of an hereditary head of state.a patriot I would have to subscribe to "God Save the Queen" so in all honesty I can't consider myself a patriot either - the concept has pretty much been appropriated by English right -wingers in the UK.

Monarchism is a right-wing thing. Personally I avoid calling Britain the "UK". The UK is a political regime. Britain is a country. Calling Britain "the UK" is like calling France "the fifth Republic". I am English and British but I am not a "UK-er", other than that's the monarchist crap that's written on my passport.

Britain is not and never has been a country.

What's your reason for taking that view? Do you think countries can't contain and be constituted by other countries? So the USSR and Czechoslovakia weren't countries? Your view would imply that there isn't any such thing as British nationalism, British patriotism, British national identity - but there is.

When was the country of Britain founded?

Hint: Not at he same time as the United Kingdom.

Omnium

Cyan said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Cyan said:

OllyT said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Bojabob, so, because your side lost a vote you no longer love a country that previously you did?

That's rather sad. Sadder still that you feel as much (or more) loyalty to foreigners than your own people.

Mr. Nabavi, indeed, and I wish those who keep raising stupid little regional assemblies in England would learn that lesson and not make an even worse error of judgement.

Although a centrist in political terms I'm an atheist and oppose the idea of an hereditary head of state.a patriot I would have to subscribe to "God Save the Queen" so in all honesty I can't consider myself a patriot either - the concept has pretty much been appropriated by English right -wingers in the UK.

Monarchism is a right-wing thing. Personally I avoid calling Britain the "UK". The UK is a political regime. Britain is a country. Calling Britain "the UK" is like calling France "the fifth Republic". I am English and British but I am not a "UK-er", other than that's the monarchist crap that's written on my passport.

Britain is not and never has been a country.

What's your reason for taking that view? Do you think countries can't contain and be constituted by other countries? So the USSR and Czechoslovakia weren't countries? Your view would imply that there isn't any such thing as British nationalism, British patriotism, British national identity - but there is.

Richard is completely right I think. However I'm British and my country is called 'Great Britain'.

Monksfield

HaroldO said:

MonikerDiCanio said:

HaroldO said:

It has been posted before I'm guessing but;
https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/842378752785022979

I think we can see why Sturgeon called the new Scexit, someone was going to blindside her at conference.

Once again the vile Salmond wrapping himself in the Saltire and defiling it with his SNP filth. He's a Westminster politician and he doesn't speak for Scots. The last refuge of this revolting scoundrel is nationalism.

Watching a real nationalist in motion is quite depressing, he questions peoples patriotism for not agreeing with him. He's hitting Farage-esque heights now.

Um, remainers have had that thrown at them continually for the last year by leavers, and not all of them Faragistes.

HYUFD

Mortimer said:

In case anyone is still wondering why the left is unpopular in England, a peek at the last thread will confirm that many on the left don't seem that fond of England...

In the global league table of leftie hatred of nations the UK (or more particularly England) takes a bronze and comes a strong third behind gold medallist the USA and Israel with silver. That of course explains their hatred of Trump and Brexit UK and their love of Scottish nationalism and Palestinian self determination

HaroldO

Monksfield said:

HaroldO said:

MonikerDiCanio said:

HaroldO said:

It has been posted before I'm guessing but;
https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/842378752785022979

I think we can see why Sturgeon called the new Scexit, someone was going to blindside her at conference.

Once again the vile Salmond wrapping himself in the Saltire and defiling it with his SNP filth. He's a Westminster politician and he doesn't speak for Scots. The last refuge of this revolting scoundrel is nationalism.

Watching a real nationalist in motion is quite depressing, he questions peoples patriotism for not agreeing with him. He's hitting Farage-esque heights now.

Um, remainers have had that thrown at them continually for the last year by leavers, and not all of them Faragistes.

I haven't so far, I think I must live a sheltered life heh.

Omnium

SeanT said:

I've got a solution to the Brexit/Scottish question.

It really is brilliant.

Here it is: we all fully expect Brexit to be a massive success, of course: leading to a huge boom in the economy, a vast influx of wealth, and large gas discoveries under Alistair Meeks' house.

But what if Brexit is a total fucking failure? What if we cleverly engineer a situation where the country has zero trade deals, the City collapses, and we fall into a Depression comparable with the Black Death?

This will:

1. Please Remoaners like Meeks, who will feel vindicated
2. Please Brexiteers, because we're still OUT
3. Ensure the Scots vote STAY, because things will be so bad they'll be terrified of making things even worse
4. Please the SNP, because they can carry on whingeing forever and ever


That's it. Make Brexit a disaster. Everyone happy. Result.

"It really is brilliant. " - Would you mind awfully if I disagreed with that?

I look forwards to the SeanT solution mark 2. It'll certainly be an improvement!

isam

SeanT said:

I've got a solution to the Brexit/Scottish question.

It really is brilliant.

Here it is: we all fully expect Brexit to be a massive success, of course: leading to a huge boom in the economy, a vast influx of wealth, and large gas discoveries under Alistair Meeks' house.

But what if Brexit is a total fucking failure? What if we cleverly engineer a situation where the country has zero trade deals, the City collapses, and we fall into a Depression comparable with the Black Death?

This will:

1. Please Remoaners like Meeks, who will feel vindicated
2. Please Brexiteers, because we're still OUT
3. Ensure the Scots vote STAY, because things will be so bad they'll be terrified of making things even worse
4. Please the SNP, because they can carry on whingeing forever and ever


That's it. Make Brexit a disaster. Everyone happy. Result.

The Scots have every possible permutation in front of them, and a probable free option. They should try them all out

Part of the UK in the EU (1974-2019 (?))
Part of an independent UK (2019-21)
Outside the UK and the EU (2021-204)
Outside of the UK and an EU member (2024 onwards)

If the last one doesn't work, we'll take them back to stage 2

partypoliticalorphan

Harry - you have Labour and Conservative reversed in South Ribble which is Conservative controlled.
The current political make-up of South Ribble Council is as follows: Conservative 28; Labour 18; Liberal Democrat 2; Independent Labour 1; Vacancy 1.

williamglenn

Omnium said:

SeanT said:

I've got a solution to the Brexit/Scottish question.

It really is brilliant.

Here it is: we all fully expect Brexit to be a massive success, of course: leading to a huge boom in the economy, a vast influx of wealth, and large gas discoveries under Alistair Meeks' house.

But what if Brexit is a total fucking failure? What if we cleverly engineer a situation where the country has zero trade deals, the City collapses, and we fall into a Depression comparable with the Black Death?

This will:

1. Please Remoaners like Meeks, who will feel vindicated
2. Please Brexiteers, because we're still OUT
3. Ensure the Scots vote STAY, because things will be so bad they'll be terrified of making things even worse
4. Please the SNP, because they can carry on whingeing forever and ever


That's it. Make Brexit a disaster. Everyone happy. Result.

"It really is brilliant. " - Would you mind awfully if I disagreed with that?

I look forwards to the SeanT solution mark 2. It'll certainly be an improvement!

The only flaw in the SeanT solution is that it would please the French...

MonikerDiCanio

HYUFD said:

Mortimer said:

In case anyone is still wondering why the left is unpopular in England, a peek at the last thread will confirm that many on the left don't seem that fond of England...

In the global league table of leftie hatred of nations the UK (or more particularly England) takes a bronze and comes a strong third behind gold medallist the USA and Israel with silver. That of course explains their hatred of Trump and Brexit UK and the love of Scottish nationalism and Palestinian self determination

Michelle Obama's comment that the first time she felt proud to be an American was upon her husband's election to the Presidency was unforgettable.

nunu

isam said:

SeanT said:

I've got a solution to the Brexit/Scottish question.

It really is brilliant.

Here it is: we all fully expect Brexit to be a massive success, of course: leading to a huge boom in the economy, a vast influx of wealth, and large gas discoveries under Alistair Meeks' house.

But what if Brexit is a total fucking failure? What if we cleverly engineer a situation where the country has zero trade deals, the City collapses, and we fall into a Depression comparable with the Black Death?

This will:

1. Please Remoaners like Meeks, who will feel vindicated
2. Please Brexiteers, because we're still OUT
3. Ensure the Scots vote STAY, because things will be so bad they'll be terrified of making things even worse
4. Please the SNP, because they can carry on whingeing forever and ever


That's it. Make Brexit a disaster. Everyone happy. Result.

The Scots have every possible permutation in front of them, and a probable free option. They should try them all out

Part of the UK in the EU (1974-2019 (?))
Part of an independent UK (2019-21)
Outside the UK and the EU (2021-204)
Outside of the UK and an EU member (2024 onwards)

If the last one doesn't work, we'll take them back to stage 2

No, we won't.

williamglenn

Brilliant letter from Hezza.

https://twitter.com/amolrajanbbc/status/842421532672573440

Nigelb

Morris_Dancer said:

Thanks for this, Mr. Hayfield.

FPT: And whilst I'm not working, if anybody's interest in English history has been piqued, I can strongly recommend a few books.
A Time Traveller's Guide to Medieval England, by Ian Mortimer, is a very engaging look at everyday life, mostly around the 14th century.

In chronological order, some good biographies are:
The Greatest Knight: The Remarkable Life of William Marshal, by Thomas Asbridge
A Great and Terrible King: Edward I and the Forging of Britain, by Marc Morris
The Greatest Traitor: The Life of Sir Roger Mortimer, by Ian Mortimer
The Perfect King: The Life of Edward III, by Ian Mortimer

I really should get myself another medieval history at some point. When I've finished the three books on my to-read pile. And if I have the time. And money.

I would also recommend Robert Tombs The English and their History; comprehensive, excellent and balanced.

TwistedFireStopper

HYUFD said:

Mortimer said:

In case anyone is still wondering why the left is unpopular in England, a peek at the last thread will confirm that many on the left don't seem that fond of England...

In the global league table of leftie hatred of nations the UK (or more particularly England) takes a bronze and comes a strong third behind gold medallist the USA and Israel with silver. That of course explains their hatred of Trump and Brexit UK and their love of Scottish nationalism and Palestinian self determination

Nah, I ain't buying that. It's only a certain type of leftie that thinks like that. The Labour voters I know are all as patriotic as I am, no matter what culture they come from.

MonikerDiCanio

williamglenn said:

Brilliant letter from Hezza.

https://twitter.com/amolrajanbbc/status/842421532672573440

I wonder what a graphologist would make of that signature ? A chimpanzee ?

Theuniondivvie

SeanT said:

PlatoSaid said:

isam said:

PlatoSaid said:

Holy Cats in Leicester

"The evil pair shot one victim with a crossbow, and used a baseball bat with “The Pain” scrawled on it to threaten the 11 children in a sickening campaign of hate at their squalid home.

Nicholas, 47, and Joan, 44, are now facing jail after they were found guilty of nearly 100 offences committed against 11 victims between 1996 and 2006...

The young boys and girls were all aged 16 or under at the time of the vile abuse.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3108261/sick-couple-drugged-kids-with-crack-forced-them-to-carry-out-sex-acts-and-shot-crossbow-darts-at-a-boy/?CMP=Spklr-_-Editorial-_-TheSun-_-News-_-TwImageandlink-_-Statement-_-TWITTER

Look like a couple of thicko Leavers too.. they're all the same

I've spent today in a war of attrition with my neighbours who keep playing very loud music. I decided to wage my own campaign turned up to 11. My ears are ringing, but after two stints several hours long attempting to drown them out - they've gone silent.

They've had everything I could throw with either a very heavy beat, drumming or yelling vocals. I really can't understand why people are so frigging inconsiderate. I'm as quiet as a mouse.

Download a Youtube video of a baby squalling REALLY REALLY loudly, then play it at full volume for hours.

It is indescribably insufferable, and will silence any neighbour, and if they complain tell them their music is making your baby cry.

I did it for some annoying students having a party in the flat above me. At 5am. They haven't had a loud party since.

Surely there's a clumsy, constitutional metaphor re. our current imbroglio to be squeezed out of that?

AnneJGP

MonikerDiCanio said:

williamglenn said:

Brilliant letter from Hezza.

https://twitter.com/amolrajanbbc/status/842421532672573440

I wonder what a graphologist would make of that signature ? A chimpanzee ?

No, elderly person.

Charles

williamglenn said:

Omnium said:

SeanT said:

I've got a solution to the Brexit/Scottish question.

It really is brilliant.

Here it is: we all fully expect Brexit to be a massive success, of course: leading to a huge boom in the economy, a vast influx of wealth, and large gas discoveries under Alistair Meeks' house.

But what if Brexit is a total fucking failure? What if we cleverly engineer a situation where the country has zero trade deals, the City collapses, and we fall into a Depression comparable with the Black Death?

This will:

1. Please Remoaners like Meeks, who will feel vindicated
2. Please Brexiteers, because we're still OUT
3. Ensure the Scots vote STAY, because things will be so bad they'll be terrified of making things even worse
4. Please the SNP, because they can carry on whingeing forever and ever


That's it. Make Brexit a disaster. Everyone happy. Result.

"It really is brilliant. " - Would you mind awfully if I disagreed with that?

I look forwards to the SeanT solution mark 2. It'll certainly be an improvement!

The only flaw in the SeanT solution is that it would please the French...

No, it wouldn't.

When Brexit is a disaster, we implement Churchill's solution, and merge the UK and France. Clearly we can't use Paris, because that would be humiliating, and Lyon is too far from anywhere (except the Alps) so I would propose we site the new capital in France's third largest city, Londres.

Monksfield

MonikerDiCanio said:

williamglenn said:

Brilliant letter from Hezza.

https://twitter.com/amolrajanbbc/status/842421532672573440

I wonder what a graphologist would make of that signature ? A chimpanzee ?

Who would expect you to do other than play the man?

NickPalmer

Cyan said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Cyan said:

OllyT said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Bojabob, so, because your side lost a vote you no longer love a country that previously you did?

That's rather sad. Sadder still that you feel as much (or more) loyalty to foreigners than your own people.

Mr. Nabavi, indeed, and I wish those who keep raising stupid little regional assemblies in England would learn that lesson and not make an even worse error of judgement.

Although a centrist in political terms I'm an atheist and oppose the idea of an hereditary head of state.a patriot I would have to subscribe to "God Save the Queen" so in all honesty I can't consider myself a patriot either - the concept has pretty much been appropriated by English right -wingers in the UK.

Monarchism is a right-wing thing. Personally I avoid calling Britain the "UK". The UK is a political regime. Britain is a country. Calling Britain "the UK" is like calling France "the fifth Republic". I am English and British but I am not a "UK-er", other than that's the monarchist crap that's written on my passport.

Britain is not and never has been a country.

What's your reason for taking that view? Do you think countries can't contain and be constituted by other countries? So the USSR and Czechoslovakia weren't countries? Your view would imply that there isn't any such thing as British nationalism, British patriotism, British national identity - but there is.

isam said:

Is this a "talking about myself and how I define myself against others" thread or was that just the last one?

lol. Elegantly put.

PlatoSaid

Lauren is a trifle rich for my blood, but she's spot on here re WH press room

https://youtu.be/hmSSgtBe-CE

Sunil_Prasannan

Charles said:

williamglenn said:

Omnium said:

SeanT said:

I've got a solution to the Brexit/Scottish question.

It really is brilliant.

Here it is: we all fully expect Brexit to be a massive success, of course: leading to a huge boom in the economy, a vast influx of wealth, and large gas discoveries under Alistair Meeks' house.

But what if Brexit is a total fucking failure? What if we cleverly engineer a situation where the country has zero trade deals, the City collapses, and we fall into a Depression comparable with the Black Death?

This will:

1. Please Remoaners like Meeks, who will feel vindicated
2. Please Brexiteers, because we're still OUT
3. Ensure the Scots vote STAY, because things will be so bad they'll be terrified of making things even worse
4. Please the SNP, because they can carry on whingeing forever and ever


That's it. Make Brexit a disaster. Everyone happy. Result.

"It really is brilliant. " - Would you mind awfully if I disagreed with that?

I look forwards to the SeanT solution mark 2. It'll certainly be an improvement!

The only flaw in the SeanT solution is that it would please the French...

No, it wouldn't.

When Brexit is a disaster, we implement Churchill's solution, and merge the UK and France. Clearly we can't use Paris, because that would be humiliating, and Lyon is too far from anywhere (except the Alps) so I would propose we site the new capital in France's third largest city, Londres.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Sunil060902/sandbox

Dixie

Sandpit said:

Well done Harry and Mike for the excellent work in compiling and posting these every week.

agreed. A wonderful service. Thank you

HYUFD

TwistedFireStopper said:

HYUFD said:

Mortimer said:

In case anyone is still wondering why the left is unpopular in England, a peek at the last thread will confirm that many on the left don't seem that fond of England...

In the global league table of leftie hatred of nations the UK (or more particularly England) takes a bronze and comes a strong third behind gold medallist the USA and Israel with silver. That of course explains their hatred of Trump and Brexit UK and their love of Scottish nationalism and Palestinian self determination

Nah, I ain't buying that. It's only a certain type of leftie that thinks like that. The Labour voters I know are all as patriotic as I am, no matter what culture they come from.

In terms of the UK government though in the eyes of the global left it is only a small step down from the Trump administration at best

Sunil_Prasannan

williamglenn said:

Brilliant letter from Hezza.

https://twitter.com/amolrajanbbc/status/842421532672573440

LEAVE 494
REMAIN 122

HYUFD

MonikerDiCanio said:

HYUFD said:

Mortimer said:

In case anyone is still wondering why the left is unpopular in England, a peek at the last thread will confirm that many on the left don't seem that fond of England...

In the global league table of leftie hatred of nations the UK (or more particularly England) takes a bronze and comes a strong third behind gold medallist the USA and Israel with silver. That of course explains their hatred of Trump and Brexit UK and the love of Scottish nationalism and Palestinian self determination

Michelle Obama's comment that the first time she felt proud to be an American was upon her husband's election to the Presidency was unforgettable.

Yes that pretty much explains the mindset

GIN1138

williamglenn said:

Brilliant letter from Hezza.

https://twitter.com/amolrajanbbc/status/842421532672573440

Er, sorry to break it to you Hezza bout TM has "changed her mind" after the country voted to LEAVE the EU...

Sunil_Prasannan

I'm posting this message a few miles from South Heaton

chestnut

I now look forward to seeing local by election results on Friday mornings!

rcs1000

MonikerDiCanio said:

williamglenn said:

Brilliant letter from Hezza.

https://twitter.com/amolrajanbbc/status/842421532672573440

I wonder what a graphologist would make of that signature ? A chimpanzee ?

Parkinson's

OllyT

HYUFD said:

Mortimer said:

In case anyone is still wondering why the left is unpopular in England, a peek at the last thread will confirm that many on the left don't seem that fond of England...

In the global league table of leftie hatred of nations the UK (or more particularly England) takes a bronze and comes a strong third behind gold medallist the USA and Israel with silver. That of course explains their hatred of Trump and Brexit UK and their love of Scottish nationalism and Palestinian self determination

It might be worth pondering why lefties in the UK, USA and Israel hold that view compared to there countries. Might be a bit of challenge for some.

MonikerDiCanio

PlatoSaid said:

Lauren is a trifle rich for my blood, but she's spot on here re WH press room

https://youtu.be/hmSSgtBe-CE

Why does the blonde have a photo of Piccadilly as a back drop ?

FF43

SeanT said:

I've got a solution to the Brexit/Scottish question.

It really is brilliant.

Here it is: we all fully expect Brexit to be a massive success, of course: leading to a huge boom in the economy, a vast influx of wealth, and large gas discoveries under Alistair Meeks' house.

But what if Brexit is a total fucking failure? What if we cleverly engineer a situation where the country has zero trade deals, the City collapses, and we fall into a Depression comparable with the Black Death?

This will:

1. Please Remoaners like Meeks, who will feel vindicated
2. Please Brexiteers, because we're still OUT
3. Ensure the Scots vote STAY, because things will be so bad they'll be terrified of making things even worse
4. Please the SNP, because they can carry on whingeing forever and ever


That's it. Make Brexit a disaster. Everyone happy. Result.

Minus the poetic licence, and without any clever engineering, that's sort of what's going to happen in my opinion. Would it actually deliver those four neatly defined results? Or would the four groups just dissolve into a mutual blame game?

Omnium

rcs1000 said:

MonikerDiCanio said:

williamglenn said:

Brilliant letter from Hezza.

https://twitter.com/amolrajanbbc/status/842421532672573440

I wonder what a graphologist would make of that signature ? A chimpanzee ?

Parkinson's

Great man, Cecil.

Mortimer

TwistedFireStopper said:

HYUFD said:

Mortimer said:

In case anyone is still wondering why the left is unpopular in England, a peek at the last thread will confirm that many on the left don't seem that fond of England...

In the global league table of leftie hatred of nations the UK (or more particularly England) takes a bronze and comes a strong third behind gold medallist the USA and Israel with silver. That of course explains their hatred of Trump and Brexit UK and their love of Scottish nationalism and Palestinian self determination

Nah, I ain't buying that. It's only a certain type of leftie that thinks like that. The Labour voters I know are all as patriotic as I am, no matter what culture they come from.

I'd agree with that. Lefty activists often seem far less patriotic than the average Labour voter.

Ishmael_Z

Omnium said:

Cyan said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Cyan said:

OllyT said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Bojabob, so, because your side lost a vote you no longer love a country that previously you did?

That's rather sad. Sadder still that you feel as much (or more) loyalty to foreigners than your own people.

Mr. Nabavi, indeed, and I wish those who keep raising stupid little regional assemblies in England would learn that lesson and not make an even worse error of judgement.

Although a centrist in political terms I'm an atheist and oppose the idea of an hereditary head of state.a patriot I would have to subscribe to "God Save the Queen" so in all honesty I can't consider myself a patriot either - the concept has pretty much been appropriated by English right -wingers in the UK.

Monarchism is a right-wing thing. Personally I avoid calling Britain the "UK". The UK is a political regime. Britain is a country. Calling Britain "the UK" is like calling France "the fifth Republic". I am English and British but I am not a "UK-er", other than that's the monarchist crap that's written on my passport.

Britain is not and never has been a country.

What's your reason for taking that view? Do you think countries can't contain and be constituted by other countries? So the USSR and Czechoslovakia weren't countries? Your view would imply that there isn't any such thing as British nationalism, British patriotism, British national identity - but there is.

Richard is completely right I think. However I'm British and my country is called 'Great Britain'.

No you aren't, Britain is no more a country than North America is, it's the name of a piece of land. And Great is a purely geographical qualifier to distinguish it from the other Britain, aka Brittany.

Sunil_Prasannan

Ishmael_Z said:

Omnium said:

Cyan said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Cyan said:

OllyT said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Bojabob, so, because your side lost a vote you no longer love a country that previously you did?

That's rather sad. Sadder still that you feel as much (or more) loyalty to foreigners than your own people.

Mr. Nabavi, indeed, and I wish those who keep raising stupid little regional assemblies in England would learn that lesson and not make an even worse error of judgement.

Although a centrist in political terms I'm an atheist and oppose the idea of an hereditary head of state.a patriot I would have to subscribe to "God Save the Queen" so in all honesty I can't consider myself a patriot either - the concept has pretty much been appropriated by English right -wingers in the UK.

Monarchism is a right-wing thing. Personally I avoid calling Britain the "UK". The UK is a political regime. Britain is a country. Calling Britain "the UK" is like calling France "the fifth Republic". I am English and British but I am not a "UK-er", other than that's the monarchist crap that's written on my passport.

Britain is not and never has been a country.

What's your reason for taking that view? Do you think countries can't contain and be constituted by other countries? So the USSR and Czechoslovakia weren't countries? Your view would imply that there isn't any such thing as British nationalism, British patriotism, British national identity - but there is.

Richard is completely right I think. However I'm British and my country is called 'Great Britain'.

No you aren't, Britain is no more a country than North America is, it's the name of a piece of land. And Great is a purely geographical qualifier to distinguish it from the other Britain, aka Brittany.

We use "British" as a shorthand for "United Kingdomish", the same way "American" is shorthand for "United Statesish".

eg. British Airways, and American Airlines.

AlastairMeeks

SouthamObserver said:

Hand in hand ...
https://twitter.com/zekejmiller/status/842463110082486272

I have to say that sounds entirely plausible to me.

OllyT

Mortimer said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

HYUFD said:

Mortimer said:

In case anyone is still wondering why the left is unpopular in England, a peek at the last thread will confirm that many on the left don't seem that fond of England...

In the global league table of leftie hatred of nations the UK (or more particularly England) takes a bronze and comes a strong third behind gold medallist the USA and Israel with silver. That of course explains their hatred of Trump and Brexit UK and their love of Scottish nationalism and Palestinian self determination

Nah, I ain't buying that. It's only a certain type of leftie that thinks like that. The Labour voters I know are all as patriotic as I am, no matter what culture they come from.

I'd agree with that. Lefty activists often seem far less patriotic than the average Labour voter.

Out of interest do you consider it possible to be a republican and a patriot in this country.

dixiedean

HYUFD said:

Mortimer said:

In case anyone is still wondering why the left is unpopular in England, a peek at the last thread will confirm that many on the left don't seem that fond of England...

In the global league table of leftie hatred of nations the UK (or more particularly England) takes a bronze and comes a strong third behind gold medallist the USA and Israel with silver. That of course explains their hatred of Trump and Brexit UK and their love of Scottish nationalism and Palestinian self determination

I am a proud supporter of Labour Friends of Israel. I also don't think self-determination is something to be criticised. My dislike of Trump (not hatred) is because he is dangerously inexperienced, and pushing a radical programme with shallow support.

AlastairMeeks

Could a geologist check my building for gas discoveries? I wouldn't want the Brexit boom to be literal in my case.

Sunil_Prasannan

SeanT said:

PlatoSaid said:

Lauren is a trifle rich for my blood, but she's spot on here re WH press room

https://youtu.be/hmSSgtBe-CE

It has to be observed that she is decidedly HOT

She looks OK

Charles

OllyT said:

Mortimer said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

HYUFD said:

Mortimer said:

In case anyone is still wondering why the left is unpopular in England, a peek at the last thread will confirm that many on the left don't seem that fond of England...

In the global league table of leftie hatred of nations the UK (or more particularly England) takes a bronze and comes a strong third behind gold medallist the USA and Israel with silver. That of course explains their hatred of Trump and Brexit UK and their love of Scottish nationalism and Palestinian self determination

Nah, I ain't buying that. It's only a certain type of leftie that thinks like that. The Labour voters I know are all as patriotic as I am, no matter what culture they come from.

I'd agree with that. Lefty activists often seem far less patriotic than the average Labour voter.

Out of interest do you consider it possible to be a republican and a patriot in this country.

Traditionally the monarchy comes fairly far down the order of loyalty

Family, God, Queen and Country

Richard_Tyndall

williamglenn said:

Brilliant letter from Hezza.

https://twitter.com/amolrajanbbc/status/842421532672573440

A thoroughly dishonest and disingenuous letter would be more accurate.

HYUFD

OllyT said:

HYUFD said:

Mortimer said:

In case anyone is still wondering why the left is unpopular in England, a peek at the last thread will confirm that many on the left don't seem that fond of England...

In the global league table of leftie hatred of nations the UK (or more particularly England) takes a bronze and comes a strong third behind gold medallist the USA and Israel with silver. That of course explains their hatred of Trump and Brexit UK and their love of Scottish nationalism and Palestinian self determination

It might be worth pondering why lefties in the UK, USA and Israel hold that view compared to there countries. Might be a bit of challenge for some.

Indeed but it is the general economic success of those nations which allows them to be able to afford to wallow in self indulgent loathing of them

HYUFD

dixiedean said:

HYUFD said:

Mortimer said:

In case anyone is still wondering why the left is unpopular in England, a peek at the last thread will confirm that many on the left don't seem that fond of England...

In the global league table of leftie hatred of nations the UK (or more particularly England) takes a bronze and comes a strong third behind gold medallist the USA and Israel with silver. That of course explains their hatred of Trump and Brexit UK and their love of Scottish nationalism and Palestinian self determination

I am a proud supporter of Labour Friends of Israel. I also don't think self-determination is something to be criticised. My dislike of Trump (not hatred) is because he is dangerously inexperienced, and pushing a radical programme with shallow support.

In Corbyn's Labour Party almost a contradiction in terms, despite the few dissenters still holding firm

Baskerville

williamglenn said:

Brilliant letter from Hezza.

https://twitter.com/amolrajanbbc/status/842421532672573440

Dear PB,

Surely, you only sign a letter Yours Sincerely if you know the person you're writing to; Heseltine claims never to have met TM.

And if you address someone by their title, shouldn't you sign it Yours Faithfully?

Yours Pedantly,

Baskerville

Ishmael_Z

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Ishmael_Z said:

Omnium said:

Cyan said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Cyan said:

OllyT said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Bojabob, so, because your side lost a vote you no longer love a country that previously you did?

That's rather sad. Sadder still that you feel as much (or more) loyalty to foreigners than your own people.

Mr. Nabavi, indeed, and I wish those who keep raising stupid little regional assemblies in England would learn that lesson and not make an even worse error of judgement.

Although a centrist in political terms I'm an atheist and oppose the idea of an hereditary head of state.a patriot I would have to subscribe to "God Save the Queen" so in all honesty I can't consider myself a patriot either - the concept has pretty much been appropriated by English right -wingers in the UK.

Monarchism is a right-wing thing. Personally I avoid calling Britain the "UK". The UK is a political regime. Britain is a country. Calling Britain "the UK" is like calling France "the fifth Republic". I am English and British but I am not a "UK-er", other than that's the monarchist crap that's written on my passport.

Britain is not and never has been a country.

What's your reason for taking that view? Do you think countries can't contain and be constituted by other countries? So the USSR and Czechoslovakia weren't countries? Your view would imply that there isn't any such thing as British nationalism, British patriotism, British national identity - but there is.

Richard is completely right I think. However I'm British and my country is called 'Great Britain'.

No you aren't, Britain is no more a country than North America is, it's the name of a piece of land. And Great is a purely geographical qualifier to distinguish it from the other Britain, aka Brittany.

We use "British" as a shorthand for "United Kingdomish", the same way "American" is shorthand for "United Statesish".

eg. British Airways, and American Airlines.

Good point. Come to think of it, HMQ is Her Britannic Majesty on passports.

Richard_Tyndall

Omnium said:

Cyan said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Cyan said:

OllyT said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Bojabob, so, because your side lost a vote you no longer love a country that previously you did?

That's rather sad. Sadder still that you feel as much (or more) loyalty to foreigners than your own people.

Mr. Nabavi, indeed, and I wish those who keep raising stupid little regional assemblies in England would learn that lesson and not make an even worse error of judgement.

Although a centrist in political terms I'm an atheist and oppose the idea of an hereditary head of state.a patriot I would have to subscribe to "God Save the Queen" so in all honesty I can't consider myself a patriot either - the concept has pretty much been appropriated by English right -wingers in the UK.

Monarchism is a right-wing thing. Personally I avoid calling Britain the "UK". The UK is a political regime. Britain is a country. Calling Britain "the UK" is like calling France "the fifth Republic". I am English and British but I am not a "UK-er", other than that's the monarchist crap that's written on my passport.

Britain is not and never has been a country.

What's your reason for taking that view? Do you think countries can't contain and be constituted by other countries? So the USSR and Czechoslovakia weren't countries? Your view would imply that there isn't any such thing as British nationalism, British patriotism, British national identity - but there is.

Richard is completely right I think. However I'm British and my country is called 'Great Britain'.

Again there is no such thing. Great Britain is an area of physical geography not a country. It is as accurate as claiming ones country is Fingal's Cave or the Trent Valley.

Danny565

https://twitter.com/newdawn1997/status/842290418108751873

MonikerDiCanio

Monksfield said:

MonikerDiCanio said:

williamglenn said:

Brilliant letter from Hezza.

https://twitter.com/amolrajanbbc/status/842421532672573440

I wonder what a graphologist would make of that signature ? A chimpanzee ?

Who would expect you to do other than play the man?

Playing the hominid.

dixiedean

HYUFD said:

dixiedean said:

HYUFD said:

Mortimer said:

In case anyone is still wondering why the left is unpopular in England, a peek at the last thread will confirm that many on the left don't seem that fond of England...

In the global league table of leftie hatred of nations the UK (or more particularly England) takes a bronze and comes a strong third behind gold medallist the USA and Israel with silver. That of course explains their hatred of Trump and Brexit UK and their love of Scottish nationalism and Palestinian self determination

I am a proud supporter of Labour Friends of Israel. I also don't think self-determination is something to be criticised. My dislike of Trump (not hatred) is because he is dangerously inexperienced, and pushing a radical programme with shallow support.

In Corbyn's Labour Party almost a contradiction in terms, despite the few dissenters still holding firm

Not so. There are considerably more of us than you imagine. Also Labour does not belong to Corbyn.

williamglenn

AlastairMeeks said:

SouthamObserver said:

Hand in hand ...
https://twitter.com/zekejmiller/status/842463110082486272

I have to say that sounds entirely plausible to me.

And the ministerial responsibility would lie with none other than Boris. An excuse to expunge?

Sunil_Prasannan

Baskerville said:

williamglenn said:

Brilliant letter from Hezza.

https://twitter.com/amolrajanbbc/status/842421532672573440

Dear PB,

Surely, you only sign a letter Yours Sincerely if you know the person you're writing to; Heseltine claims never to have met TM.

And if you address someone by their title, shouldn't you sign it Yours Faithfully?

Yours Pedantly,

Baskerville

Dear Sir/Madam,

Blah, blah, blah.

Yours Faithfully

Omnium

Ishmael_Z said:

Omnium said:

Cyan said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Cyan said:

OllyT said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Bojabob, so, because your side lost a vote you no longer love a country that previously you did?

That's rather sad. Sadder still that you feel as much (or more) loyalty to foreigners than your own people.

Mr. Nabavi, indeed, and I wish those who keep raising stupid little regional assemblies in England would learn that lesson and not make an even worse error of judgement.

Although a centrist in political terms I'm an atheist and oppose the idea of an hereditary head of state.a patriot I would have to subscribe to "God Save the Queen" so in all honesty I can't consider myself a patriot either - the concept has pretty much been appropriated by English right -wingers in the UK.

Monarchism is a right-wing thing. Personally I avoid calling Britain the "UK". The UK is a political regime. Britain is a country. Calling Britain "the UK" is like calling France "the fifth Republic". I am English and British but I am not a "UK-er", other than that's the monarchist crap that's written on my passport.

Britain is not and never has been a country.

What's your reason for taking that view? Do you think countries can't contain and be constituted by other countries? So the USSR and Czechoslovakia weren't countries? Your view would imply that there isn't any such thing as British nationalism, British patriotism, British national identity - but there is.

Richard is completely right I think. However I'm British and my country is called 'Great Britain'.

No you aren't, Britain is no more a country than North America is, it's the name of a piece of land. And Great is a purely geographical qualifier to distinguish it from the other Britain, aka Brittany.

I'm sorry but I stand by my statement, and will always stand by it.

'Great Britain' is my country whether you like it or not, and I suspect that's true for others.

I've already said that there may be some grounds to dismiss this label, and you have quite fairly done so. However you'd be in a very unwise place indeed though if you dismissed my and others identification with a country (fictitious or otherwise) called Great Britain.

MonikerDiCanio

Baskerville said:

williamglenn said:

Brilliant letter from Hezza.

https://twitter.com/amolrajanbbc/status/842421532672573440

Dear PB,

Surely, you only sign a letter Yours Sincerely if you know the person you're writing to; Heseltine claims never to have met TM.

And if you address someone by their title, shouldn't you sign it Yours Faithfully?

Yours Pedantly,

Baskerville

Is it sincerely ? It looks like a heart beat recorded by a primitive ECG machine.

HYUFD

dixiedean said:

HYUFD said:

dixiedean said:

HYUFD said:

Mortimer said:

In case anyone is still wondering why the left is unpopular in England, a peek at the last thread will confirm that many on the left don't seem that fond of England...

In the global league table of leftie hatred of nations the UK (or more particularly England) takes a bronze and comes a strong third behind gold medallist the USA and Israel with silver. That of course explains their hatred of Trump and Brexit UK and their love of Scottish nationalism and Palestinian self determination

I am a proud supporter of Labour Friends of Israel. I also don't think self-determination is something to be criticised. My dislike of Trump (not hatred) is because he is dangerously inexperienced, and pushing a radical programme with shallow support.

In Corbyn's Labour Party almost a contradiction in terms, despite the few dissenters still holding firm

Not so. There are considerably more of us than you imagine. Also Labour does not belong to Corbyn.

Kudos to you and your fellow members but Labour voters are firmly in the Palestinians corner, according to a 2014 poll 31% had more sympathy with the Palestinians compared to only 13% with Israel, 28% of Tory voters by contrast had more sympathy with Israel and 15% with the Palestinians
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/03/11/israel-and-palestine-whose-side-britain/

TheWhiteRabbit

Baskerville said:

williamglenn said:

Brilliant letter from Hezza.

https://twitter.com/amolrajanbbc/status/842421532672573440

Dear PB,

Surely, you only sign a letter Yours Sincerely if you know the person you're writing to; Heseltine claims never to have met TM.

And if you address someone by their title, shouldn't you sign it Yours Faithfully?

Yours Pedantly,

Baskerville

he's also mixing his date formats

Richard_Tyndall

Omnium said:

Ishmael_Z said:

Omnium said:

Cyan said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Cyan said:

OllyT said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Bojabob, so, because your side lost a vote you no longer love a country that previously you did?

That's rather sad. Sadder still that you feel as much (or more) loyalty to foreigners than your own people.

Mr. Nabavi, indeed, and I wish those who keep raising stupid little regional assemblies in England would learn that lesson and not make an even worse error of judgement.

Although a centrist in political terms I'm an atheist and oppose the idea of an hereditary head of state.a patriot I would have to subscribe to "God Save the Queen" so in all honesty I can't consider myself a patriot either - the concept has pretty much been appropriated by English right -wingers in the UK.

Monarchism is a right-wing thing. Personally I avoid calling Britain the "UK". The UK is a political regime. Britain is a country. Calling Britain "the UK" is like calling France "the fifth Republic". I am English and British but I am not a "UK-er", other than that's the monarchist crap that's written on my passport.

Britain is not and never has been a country.

What's your reason for taking that view? Do you think countries can't contain and be constituted by other countries? So the USSR and Czechoslovakia weren't countries? Your view would imply that there isn't any such thing as British nationalism, British patriotism, British national identity - but there is.

Richard is completely right I think. However I'm British and my country is called 'Great Britain'.

No you aren't, Britain is no more a country than North America is, it's the name of a piece of land. And Great is a purely geographical qualifier to distinguish it from the other Britain, aka Brittany.

I'm sorry but I stand by my statement, and will always stand by it.

'Great Britain' is my country whether you like it or not, and I suspect that's true for others.

I've already said that there may be some grounds to dismiss this label, and you have quite fairly done so. However you'd be in a very unwise place indeed though if you dismissed my and others identification with a country (fictitious or otherwise) called Great Britain.

I live in hope that at some point in the not too distant future your fictitious identification will be proven once and for all when the State of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland ceases to exist and what remains are the existing Countries of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

Gallowgate

TheWhiteRabbit said:

Baskerville said:

williamglenn said:

Brilliant letter from Hezza.

https://twitter.com/amolrajanbbc/status/842421532672573440

Dear PB,

Surely, you only sign a letter Yours Sincerely if you know the person you're writing to; Heseltine claims never to have met TM.

And if you address someone by their title, shouldn't you sign it Yours Faithfully?

Yours Pedantly,

Baskerville

he's also mixing his date formats

Also double space after full stop scum.

williamglenn

Richard_Tyndall said:

I live in hope that at some point in the not too distant future your fictitious identification will be proven once and for all when the State of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland ceases to exist and what remains are the existing Countries of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

You'll regret it when the end result is that we learn to appreciate the point of European federalism.

Ishmael_Z

SeanT said:

Ishmael_Z said:

Omnium said:

Cyan said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Cyan said:

OllyT said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Bojabob, so, because your side lost a vote you no longer love a country that previously you did?

That's rather sad. Sadder still that you feel as much (or more) loyalty to foreigners than your own people.

Mr. Nabavi, indeed, and I wish those who keep raising stupid little regional assemblies in England would learn that lesson and not make an even worse error of judgement.

Although a centrist in political terms I'm an atheist and oppose the idea of an hereditary head of state.a patriot I would have to subscribe to "God Save the Queen" so in all honesty I can't consider myself a patriot either - the concept has pretty much been appropriated by English right -wingers in the UK.

Monarchism is a right-wing thing. Personally I avoid calling Britain the "UK". The UK is a political regime. Britain is a country. Calling Britain "the UK" is like calling France "the fifth Republic". I am English and British but I am not a "UK-er", other than that's the monarchist crap that's written on my passport.

Britain is not and never has been a country.

What's your reason for taking that view? Do you think countries can't contain and be constituted by other countries? So the USSR and Czechoslovakia weren't countries? Your view would imply that there isn't any such thing as British nationalism, British patriotism, British national identity - but there is.

Richard is completely right I think. However I'm British and my country is called 'Great Britain'.

No you aren't, Britain is no more a country than North America is, it's the name of a piece of land. And Great is a purely geographical qualifier to distinguish it from the other Britain, aka Brittany.

Sure? Some say Great Britain as a political term comes from Ptolemy, contrasting it with Ireland

Politically it derives from the final* union of England, Scotland and Wales


*maybe

Golly, it is more complicated than i thought. Wiki agrees that Ptolemy thought GB was GB and little Britain was Ireland, but then Geoffrey of Monmouth decided that little Britain was Brittany. Not sure where that gets us.

And king James I/VI called himself king of GB.

Big_G_NorthWales

In 65 years following football I have never seen a relay passing a banana onto the field of play for a player to eat to boost his energy

FrancisUrquhart

SeanT said:

Mortimer said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

HYUFD said:

Mortimer said:

In case anyone is still wondering why the left is unpopular in England, a peek at the last thread will confirm that many on the left don't seem that fond of England...

In the global league table of leftie hatred of nations the UK (or more particularly England) takes a bronze and comes a strong third behind gold medallist the USA and Israel with silver. That of course explains their hatred of Trump and Brexit UK and their love of Scottish nationalism and Palestinian self determination

Nah, I ain't buying that. It's only a certain type of leftie that thinks like that. The Labour voters I know are all as patriotic as I am, no matter what culture they come from.

I'd agree with that. Lefty activists often seem far less patriotic than the average Labour voter.

I hadn't realised how far this self-loathing syphilis had spread across Europe until recent scandals involving migrants came to light.

Liberal Tim Pool's videocasts from Sweden were just astonishing. The Swedish press simply lied about what he found, deliberately mistranslated him, tried to persuade him that what he saw with his own eyes wasn't true, and that even if it was true, he shouldn't report it.

https://twitter.com/Timcast

The best interview of that series was with the Afghan Swedish cop. The elected officials on the other hand just would argue black was white. The reports of the media were very disturbing , not only misreporting him but things like his claims of re-pixelating a criminal from black to white as not to appear racist.

Omnium

Richard_Tyndall said:

Omnium said:

Cyan said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Cyan said:

OllyT said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Bojabob, so, because your side lost a vote you no longer love a country that previously you did?

That's rather sad. Sadder still that you feel as much (or more) loyalty to foreigners than your own people.

Mr. Nabavi, indeed, and I wish those who keep raising stupid little regional assemblies in England would learn that lesson and not make an even worse error of judgement.

Although a centrist in political terms I'm an atheist and oppose the idea of an hereditary head of state.a patriot I would have to subscribe to "God Save the Queen" so in all honesty I can't consider myself a patriot either - the concept has pretty much been appropriated by English right -wingers in the UK.

Monarchism is a right-wing thing. Personally I avoid calling Britain the "UK". The UK is a political regime. Britain is a country. Calling Britain "the UK" is like calling France "the fifth Republic". I am English and British but I am not a "UK-er", other than that's the monarchist crap that's written on my passport.

Britain is not and never has been a country.

What's your reason for taking that view? Do you think countries can't contain and be constituted by other countries? So the USSR and Czechoslovakia weren't countries? Your view would imply that there isn't any such thing as British nationalism, British patriotism, British national identity - but there is.

Richard is completely right I think. However I'm British and my country is called 'Great Britain'.

Again there is no such thing. Great Britain is an area of physical geography not a country. It is as accurate as claiming ones country is Fingal's Cave or the Trent Valley.

Ok, well if it didn't exist before it does now.

So. Is there such a thing? Well yes there must be because if it didn't exist already then it does now, and there can be no quibbles about the right to define such things as nobody knows who defined any of these such things in the first place.

So. I'm British and my country is called 'Great Britain'. Any objections?

PS You are not Richard Tyndall - that person doesn't exist!

GIN1138

Danny565 said:

https://twitter.com/newdawn1997/status/842290418108751873

How the mighty have fallen...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwWfE4DAyao

isam

hfds;gjnsf;gadsjvz'czxdf

FrancisUrquhart

We like on here to discuss about how top gear has gone down the tubes ....It appears ch4 wants to outdo that with GBBO...

After months of speculation, Noel Fielding and Sandi Toksvig were confirmed as the new hosts of The Great British Bake Off on Thursday. The trio will join expert new judge Prue Leith, as well as show stalwart Paul Hollywood, when the series returns to screens later this year on Channel 4.

They should have just gone the whole hog and got wussely brand.

HYUFD

GIN1138 said:

Danny565 said:

https://twitter.com/newdawn1997/status/842290418108751873

How the mighty have fallen...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwWfE4DAyao

Mind you I expect some Labour members prefer to be in opposition with Corbyn than in government with Blair

Dixie

FrancisUrquhart said:

SeanT said:

Mortimer said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

HYUFD said:

Mortimer said:

In case anyone is still wondering why the left is unpopular in England, a peek at the last thread will confirm that many on the left don't seem that fond of England...

In the global league table of leftie hatred of nations the UK (or more particularly England) takes a bronze and comes a strong third behind gold medallist the USA and Israel with silver. That of course explains their hatred of Trump and Brexit UK and their love of Scottish nationalism and Palestinian self determination

Nah, I ain't buying that. It's only a certain type of leftie that thinks like that. The Labour voters I know are all as patriotic as I am, no matter what culture they come from.

I'd agree with that. Lefty activists often seem far less patriotic than the average Labour voter.

I hadn't realised how far this self-loathing syphilis had spread across Europe until recent scandals involving migrants came to light.

Liberal Tim Pool's videocasts from Sweden were just astonishing. The Swedish press simply lied about what he found, deliberately mistranslated him, tried to persuade him that what he saw with his own eyes wasn't true, and that even if it was true, he shouldn't report it.

https://twitter.com/Timcast

The best interview of that series was with the Afghan Swedish cop. The elected officials on the other hand just would argue black was white. The reports of the media were very disturbing , not only misreporting him but things like his claims of re-pixelating a criminal from black to white as not to appear racist.

A muslim country in 10 years

Richard_Tyndall

Omnium said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Omnium said:

Cyan said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Cyan said:

OllyT said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Bojabob, so, because your side lost a vote you no longer love a country that previously you did?

That's rather sad. Sadder still that you feel as much (or more) loyalty to foreigners than your own people.

Mr. Nabavi, indeed, and I wish those who keep raising stupid little regional assemblies in England would learn that lesson and not make an even worse error of judgement.

Although a centrist in political terms I'm an atheist and oppose the idea of an hereditary head of state.a patriot I would have to subscribe to "God Save the Queen" so in all honesty I can't consider myself a patriot either - the concept has pretty much been appropriated by English right -wingers in the UK.

Monarchism is a right-wing thing. Personally I avoid calling Britain the "UK". The UK is a political regime. Britain is a country. Calling Britain "the UK" is like calling France "the fifth Republic". I am English and British but I am not a "UK-er", other than that's the monarchist crap that's written on my passport.

Britain is not and never has been a country.

What's your reason for taking that view? Do you think countries can't contain and be constituted by other countries? So the USSR and Czechoslovakia weren't countries? Your view would imply that there isn't any such thing as British nationalism, British patriotism, British national identity - but there is.

Richard is completely right I think. However I'm British and my country is called 'Great Britain'.

Again there is no such thing. Great Britain is an area of physical geography not a country. It is as accurate as claiming ones country is Fingal's Cave or the Trent Valley.

Ok, well if it didn't exist before it does now.

So. Is there such a thing? Well yes there must be because if it didn't exist already then it does now, and there can be no quibbles about the right to define such things as nobody knows who defined any of these such things in the first place.

So. I'm British and my country is called 'Great Britain'. Any objections?

Yes. It is a fantasy, There is no such country as Great Britain. There is not even a State called Great Britain either legally or constitutionally.

Bojabob

Mortimer

Not sure if you are referring to me? Read my post. I reckon it's pretty clear I love England, a beautiful verdant land, kissed by soft reliable rain, punctured by the artful stone builds of men, quenched by beer.

Charles said:

OllyT said:

Mortimer said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

HYUFD said:

Mortimer said:

In case anyone is still wondering why the left is unpopular in England, a peek at the last thread will confirm that many on the left don't seem that fond of England...

In the global league table of leftie hatred of nations the UK (or more particularly England) takes a bronze and comes a strong third behind gold medallist the USA and Israel with silver. That of course explains their hatred of Trump and Brexit UK and their love of Scottish nationalism and Palestinian self determination

Nah, I ain't buying that. It's only a certain type of leftie that thinks like that. The Labour voters I know are all as patriotic as I am, no matter what culture they come from.

I'd agree with that. Lefty activists often seem far less patriotic than the average Labour voter.

Out of interest do you consider it possible to be a republican and a patriot in this country.

Traditionally the monarchy comes fairly far down the order of loyalty

Family, God, Queen and Country

That God and Queen come higher than country is odd. A bloke that doesn't exist and a woman you have never met versus a beautiful verdant land, with pubs. Pubs!

AnneJGP

Big_G_NorthWales said:

In 65 years following football I have never seen a relay passing a banana onto the field of play for a player to eat to boost his energy

That suggests you have seen it now. Why is it allowed under the rules?

Richard_Tyndall

williamglenn said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

I live in hope that at some point in the not too distant future your fictitious identification will be proven once and for all when the State of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland ceases to exist and what remains are the existing Countries of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

You'll regret it when the end result is that we learn to appreciate the point of European federalism.

No William, just like all your other predictions this is another that will never come to pass. It must be hard to see your dreams crumbling before your eyes.

justin124

Danny565 said:

https://twitter.com/newdawn1997/status/842290418108751873

Six weeks later Labour won the election by a margin of 13%!