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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Don’t expect a Street Coronation in the West Midlands Mayoral

SystemSystem Posts: 11,015
edited March 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Don’t expect a Street Coronation in the West Midlands Mayoral election

‘The young princes who now stride the parade ground with the confidence born of aristocratic schooling can never be afraid. They never have been. Like latter day Pushkins drilled in the elite academy of Brownian blitzkrieg, they are bursting with their sense of destiny.’ 

Read the full story here


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  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,370
    edited March 2017
    What a fantastic, puntastic headline I used for this thread by Pulpstar.

    :lol:
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,256
    Second, like Labour
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    edited March 2017
    I put a tiny sum on the latter day Pushkin earlier today.

    Edited extra bit: and who is this Pushkin fellow, anyway? Why didn't Simon use a classical analogy like a normal person?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    edited March 2017
    Am supposed to be doing some phoning for Andy Street tomorrow so will be interesting to see the reaction, I think he and Burnham win but both races could be close
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,190
    Except Street is not running as a Tory really. He is running as a man who can get stuff done e.g. John Lewis.

    My parents live in the area and they say he has already been busy with the leaflets.
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited March 2017
    Good thread, but isn't Sion Simon seemingly a rather crap candidate, notwithstanding Labour's general difficulties?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,502

    What a fantastic, puntastic headline I used for this thread by Pulpstar.

    :lol:

    Well, yes, but I can't help feeling you missed a who ate all the pie charts pun somewhere in there ?

  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,189
    Shortly there will be an election in which Pulpstar will lose £28.50.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,502
    Danny565 said:

    Good thread, but isn't Sion Simon seemingly a rather crap candidate, notwithstanding Labour's general difficulties?

    “Seems,” madam? Nay, it is. I know not “seems.”
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,189
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    As usual, the betting threads are the best threads.
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Oh good, another chance for everyone to top up on Fillon while it gets briefly forgotten that 1) Les Republicains have no mechanisms to replace him as their candidate at this stage, and 2) that all Fillon's rivals in the election are flawed.
  • Options
    tlg86 said:
    He's French toast.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,370
    edited March 2017
    On topic, I feel the Corbyn name is going to be toxic in the West Midlands for anyone associated with Labour, is why it is no Simon bet for me.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,502

    tlg86 said:
    He's French toast.
    I remember making a similar remark about Trump ...
    Then again, Fillon doesn't have the populist appeal - Trump is more of a rock & roll swindler...
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    What a fantastic, puntastic headline I used for this thread by Pulpstar.

    Was it all your own work?
  • Options

    What a fantastic, puntastic headline I used for this thread by Pulpstar.

    Was it all your own work?
    No. It was a brilliant suggestion by @Tissue_Price.
  • Options
    Not going to get rich, but 20% return in 5 weeks on Burnham looks good to me. Odds should be much shorter.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,052
    Nigelb said:

    tlg86 said:
    He's French toast.
    I remember making a similar remark about Trump ...
    Then again, Fillon doesn't have the populist appeal - Trump is more of a rock & roll swindler...
    Perhaps Fillon has a pussy-grabbing tape lined up to grab the headlines at the right moment and crowd out all the other candidates...
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Thought-provoking article by David Goodhart:

    "Why I left my liberal London tribe
    As a divided Britain prepares for Brexit, David Goodhart reveals why he broke up with the metropolitan elite"

    https://www.ft.com/content/39a0867a-0974-11e7-ac5a-903b21361b43
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,326

    Not going to get rich, but 20% return in 5 weeks on Burnham looks good to me. Odds should be much shorter.

    Yes. FWIW, I've been urged to help in West Midlands, but not in Manchester (either Gorton or Burnham) - we think the latter are safe, while West Midlands does need attention.

    There's a risk in wishful punting in these things - some punters are fond of Galloway because he's colourful, and some here dislike Simon with remarkable venom. Don't bet what you want, bet where the odds look right!
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,212
    Struggling to make too much of the pie charts. It looks as if the Tories are closer in West Midlands than they are in Manchester. Add a swing of 8%+ since 2015 and it should be very close but struggling to tell without the numbers.

    Gut feel is that Labour are doing exceptionally badly in the midlands and that the Tories must be in with a shout there. Manchester is at least one and probably two bridges too far.
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    From today's PSNB release:

    Govt Borrowing YTD £47.8bn
    Gross Interest YTD £47.5bn
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,212
    chestnut said:

    From today's PSNB release:

    Govt Borrowing YTD £47.8bn
    Gross Interest YTD £47.5bn

    That means that there is pretty close to a primary surplus but I would be a bit suspicious about how much money is not getting paid to be BoE for the gilts they bought up with QE money, almost 1/3 of all gilts. If that is not taken into account then we do indeed have a primary surplus, albeit a somewhat contrived one.
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,078
    chestnut said:

    From today's PSNB release:

    Govt Borrowing YTD £47.8bn
    Gross Interest YTD £47.5bn

    Is this good, bad?
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,941
    DavidL said:

    Struggling to make too much of the pie charts. It looks as if the Tories are closer in West Midlands than they are in Manchester. Add a swing of 8%+ since 2015 and it should be very close but struggling to tell without the numbers.

    Gut feel is that Labour are doing exceptionally badly in the midlands and that the Tories must be in with a shout there. Manchester is at least one and probably two bridges too far.

    Labour doing badly + Labour choosing a weak candidate * having to fight a decent, indy-ish Tory candidate = Tory win.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,304
    Lol. Fantastic article, Pulpy!

    I wish you luck on your bet but I'm not tempted at 7-4. I think the West Midlands will swing heavily to May post Brexit.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914
    tlg86 said:

    Shortly there will be an election in which Pulpstar will lose £28.50.

    This thread could be my Sion Simon moment !
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,304
    tlg86 said:

    Shortly there will be an election in which Pulpstar will lose £28.50.

    I shouldn't laugh, but I did.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,719

    Not going to get rich, but 20% return in 5 weeks on Burnham looks good to me. Odds should be much shorter.

    Yes. FWIW, I've been urged to help in West Midlands, but not in Manchester (either Gorton or Burnham) - we think the latter are safe, while West Midlands does need attention.
    Sounds about right - if either Manchester election is not safe, then its probably beyond saving by bringing in outside activists anyway.
  • Options
    2017 Thread of the Year.

    Next.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,304
    AndyJS said:

    Thought-provoking article by David Goodhart:

    "Why I left my liberal London tribe
    As a divided Britain prepares for Brexit, David Goodhart reveals why he broke up with the metropolitan elite"

    https://www.ft.com/content/39a0867a-0974-11e7-ac5a-903b21361b43

    Or at least it would be were it not behind a paywall.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,304

    tlg86 said:
    He's French toast.
    I'm hoping for another mini-Juppe surge myself.
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    AndyJS said:

    Thought-provoking article by David Goodhart:

    "Why I left my liberal London tribe
    As a divided Britain prepares for Brexit, David Goodhart reveals why he broke up with the metropolitan elite"

    https://www.ft.com/content/39a0867a-0974-11e7-ac5a-903b21361b43

    Or at least it would be were it not behind a paywall.
    google "Why I left my liberal London tribe"
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387
    edited March 2017
    chestnut said:

    From today's PSNB release:

    Govt Borrowing YTD £47.8bn
    Gross Interest YTD £47.5bn

    The ONS figures are rapidly becoming a joke.

    The government has over-estimated borrowing by tens of billions over the course of the year, when comparing the initial estimate of any given month with what it is now believed to have been.

    This months' revision was more than £3bn.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,212

    AndyJS said:

    Thought-provoking article by David Goodhart:

    "Why I left my liberal London tribe
    As a divided Britain prepares for Brexit, David Goodhart reveals why he broke up with the metropolitan elite"

    https://www.ft.com/content/39a0867a-0974-11e7-ac5a-903b21361b43

    Or at least it would be were it not behind a paywall.
    Google the first line.
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387

    tlg86 said:
    He's French toast.
    I'm hoping for another mini-Juppe surge myself.
    Juppe is ineligible to stand, having failed to receive the requisite number of nominations prior to this week's deadline.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,719

    chestnut said:

    From today's PSNB release:

    Govt Borrowing YTD £47.8bn
    Gross Interest YTD £47.5bn

    The ONS figures are rapidly becoming a joke.

    The government has over-estimated borrowing by tens of billions over the course of the year, when comparing the initial estimate of any given month with what it is now believed to have been.

    This months' revision was more than £2bn.
    Isn't that pretty common? Economic growth, borrowing, it all seems not just hard to estimate, but near impossible - huge revisions feel like the norm.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,212

    chestnut said:

    From today's PSNB release:

    Govt Borrowing YTD £47.8bn
    Gross Interest YTD £47.5bn

    Is this good, bad?
    Its a lot better than we have done since 2007. But good might just be stretching it a tad.
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    chestnut said:

    From today's PSNB release:

    Govt Borrowing YTD £47.8bn
    Gross Interest YTD £47.5bn

    Is this good, bad?
    Seems to be an indication that just about everything paid for by the state is now funded bar debt interest payments.

    It also implies that the budget forecasts two weeks ago were overly pessimistic again.

    From the BBC: "Annual borrowing £51.7bn in 2016-17, £16.4bn lower than forecast"

    Looking at last March's deficit and the current trend, I'd guess that borrowing will be down another £3bn compared to the latest forecast and will show as closer to £49bn for the full year when reported next month.

    The government deficit as a proportion of GDP is likely to be something like 2.5% or 2.6%. That's the best in fifteen years.

  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    chestnut said:

    From today's PSNB release:

    Govt Borrowing YTD £47.8bn
    Gross Interest YTD £47.5bn

    Is this good, bad?
    It is despite Brexit. Make of that what you will ... :smiley:
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,304
    DavidL said:

    AndyJS said:

    Thought-provoking article by David Goodhart:

    "Why I left my liberal London tribe
    As a divided Britain prepares for Brexit, David Goodhart reveals why he broke up with the metropolitan elite"

    https://www.ft.com/content/39a0867a-0974-11e7-ac5a-903b21361b43

    Or at least it would be were it not behind a paywall.
    Google the first line.
    Ah, cheers.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,807

    chestnut said:

    From today's PSNB release:

    Govt Borrowing YTD £47.8bn
    Gross Interest YTD £47.5bn

    Is this good, bad?
    Good. Public borrowing has strongly outperformed expectations this year.
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    chestnut said:

    From today's PSNB release:

    Govt Borrowing YTD £47.8bn
    Gross Interest YTD £47.5bn

    The ONS figures are rapidly becoming a joke.

    The government has over-estimated borrowing by tens of billions over the course of the year, when comparing the initial estimate of any given month with what it is now believed to have been.

    This months' revision was more than £3bn.
    It does feel as though the whole government statistical and economic forecasting community have been given a steer to err on the side of caution.

  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,052
    RobD said:

    chestnut said:

    From today's PSNB release:

    Govt Borrowing YTD £47.8bn
    Gross Interest YTD £47.5bn

    Is this good, bad?
    It is despite Brexit. Make of that what you will ... :smiley:
    Ah, then it's good for Yes... :)
  • Options
    DixieDixie Posts: 1,221
    Mortimer said:

    DavidL said:

    Struggling to make too much of the pie charts. It looks as if the Tories are closer in West Midlands than they are in Manchester. Add a swing of 8%+ since 2015 and it should be very close but struggling to tell without the numbers.

    Gut feel is that Labour are doing exceptionally badly in the midlands and that the Tories must be in with a shout there. Manchester is at least one and probably two bridges too far.

    Labour doing badly + Labour choosing a weak candidate * having to fight a decent, indy-ish Tory candidate = Tory win.
    I'm spending the day canvassing for Mr Street with the Blue Tribe on Saturday. It's free "before expenses kick in" beer too. I will report back on his chances.
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387
    chestnut said:

    chestnut said:

    From today's PSNB release:

    Govt Borrowing YTD £47.8bn
    Gross Interest YTD £47.5bn

    Is this good, bad?
    Seems to be an indication that just about everything paid for by the state is now funded bar debt interest payments.

    It also implies that the budget forecasts two weeks ago were overly pessimistic again.

    From the BBC: "Annual borrowing £51.7bn in 2016-17, £16.4bn lower than forecast"

    Looking at last March's deficit and the current trend, I'd guess that borrowing will be down another £3bn compared to the latest forecast and will show as closer to £49bn for the full year when reported next month.

    The government deficit as a proportion of GDP is likely to be something like 2.5% or 2.6%. That's the best in fifteen years.

    That would require a revision down in our borrowing int he year to date, but I think 10 of the last 11 months have seen such a revision.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,304

    chestnut said:

    From today's PSNB release:

    Govt Borrowing YTD £47.8bn
    Gross Interest YTD £47.5bn

    The ONS figures are rapidly becoming a joke.

    The government has over-estimated borrowing by tens of billions over the course of the year, when comparing the initial estimate of any given month with what it is now believed to have been.

    This months' revision was more than £3bn.
    I don't believe their 1.5% +/- 0.5% growth figures to 2021/22 either.

    They are guessing.
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,078
    Well that's very good news. I assume our national debt keeps increasing until we are no longer borrowing to pay the interest?
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    DixieDixie Posts: 1,221

    chestnut said:

    From today's PSNB release:

    Govt Borrowing YTD £47.8bn
    Gross Interest YTD £47.5bn

    The ONS figures are rapidly becoming a joke.

    The government has over-estimated borrowing by tens of billions over the course of the year, when comparing the initial estimate of any given month with what it is now believed to have been.

    This months' revision was more than £3bn.
    They exaggerated it because they said Brexit BREXIT would increase borrowing. Another lie by Media Baron George.
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387

    chestnut said:

    From today's PSNB release:

    Govt Borrowing YTD £47.8bn
    Gross Interest YTD £47.5bn

    The ONS figures are rapidly becoming a joke.

    The government has over-estimated borrowing by tens of billions over the course of the year, when comparing the initial estimate of any given month with what it is now believed to have been.

    This months' revision was more than £3bn.
    I don't believe their 1.5% +/- 0.5% growth figures to 2021/22 either.

    They are guessing.
    At least 2021/2 is in the future, and predicting the future is hard.

    What the ONS have systematically got wrong is the PAST.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,719

    Well that's very good news. I assume our national debt keeps increasing until we are no longer borrowing to pay the interest?

    At which point we presumably start borrowing more to fund infrastructure, health and defence white elephant projects.
  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    AndyJS said:

    Thought-provoking article by David Goodhart:

    "Why I left my liberal London tribe
    As a divided Britain prepares for Brexit, David Goodhart reveals why he broke up with the metropolitan elite"

    https://www.ft.com/content/39a0867a-0974-11e7-ac5a-903b21361b43

    I think Goodhart's book is likely to become the set text on Brexit and Mayism. Though his bright-lines division of the population into Somewheres (50%) and Anywheres (25%)* is obviously an oversimplification, it does seem to have a good deal of explanatory power.


    * with 25% exhibiting elements of both
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,719
    Dixie said:

    chestnut said:

    From today's PSNB release:

    Govt Borrowing YTD £47.8bn
    Gross Interest YTD £47.5bn

    The ONS figures are rapidly becoming a joke.

    The government has over-estimated borrowing by tens of billions over the course of the year, when comparing the initial estimate of any given month with what it is now believed to have been.

    This months' revision was more than £3bn.
    They exaggerated it because they said Brexit BREXIT would increase borrowing. Another lie by Media Baron George.
    It's possible he was just wrong.
  • Options

    2017 Thread of the Year.

    Next.

    Wait until you see my Sunday thread.
  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    On topic, I fear this may be a good value loser. Though I'm sure Pulpstar will be dancing a fretful mazurka if it comes in.
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    chestnut said:

    chestnut said:

    From today's PSNB release:

    Govt Borrowing YTD £47.8bn
    Gross Interest YTD £47.5bn

    Is this good, bad?
    Seems to be an indication that just about everything paid for by the state is now funded bar debt interest payments.

    It also implies that the budget forecasts two weeks ago were overly pessimistic again.

    From the BBC: "Annual borrowing £51.7bn in 2016-17, £16.4bn lower than forecast"

    Looking at last March's deficit and the current trend, I'd guess that borrowing will be down another £3bn compared to the latest forecast and will show as closer to £49bn for the full year when reported next month.

    The government deficit as a proportion of GDP is likely to be something like 2.5% or 2.6%. That's the best in fifteen years.

    That would require a revision down in our borrowing int he year to date, but I think 10 of the last 11 months have seen such a revision.
    I think the March deficit will be between £1bn and £2bn. That assumes a fall of roughly £2bn-£3bn on the corresponding month last year which seems to be the pattern of recent months.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,807
    Cutting the deficit by 8.5% of GDP over 7 years is good achievement, despite what Don Brind thinks.
  • Options
    DixieDixie Posts: 1,221
    kle4 said:

    Dixie said:

    chestnut said:

    From today's PSNB release:

    Govt Borrowing YTD £47.8bn
    Gross Interest YTD £47.5bn

    The ONS figures are rapidly becoming a joke.

    The government has over-estimated borrowing by tens of billions over the course of the year, when comparing the initial estimate of any given month with what it is now believed to have been.

    This months' revision was more than £3bn.
    They exaggerated it because they said Brexit BREXIT would increase borrowing. Another lie by Media Baron George.
    It's possible he was just wrong.
    as Chancellor could he be that wrong? Recessions don't happen overnight. he lied
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,941

    AndyJS said:

    Thought-provoking article by David Goodhart:

    "Why I left my liberal London tribe
    As a divided Britain prepares for Brexit, David Goodhart reveals why he broke up with the metropolitan elite"

    https://www.ft.com/content/39a0867a-0974-11e7-ac5a-903b21361b43

    I think Goodhart's book is likely to become the set text on Brexit and Mayism. Though his bright-lines division of the population into Somewheres (50%) and Anywheres (25%)* is obviously an oversimplification, it does seem to have a good deal of explanatory power.


    * with 25% exhibiting elements of both
    Agreed.

    @Casino_Royale and other PBers keen on an Article 50 celebration. How about next Wednesday in Town?

    I'll be around and either poor but happy or flush but unhappy after what promises to be the best auction of the YTD.

    Any venue prefs?
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,304
    Sean_F said:

    Cutting the deficit by 8.5% of GDP over 7 years is good achievement, despite what Don Brind thinks.

    Whilst achieving the lowest unemployment rate since the 1970s, more or less continued economic growth, no collapse in house prices, and maintaining decent public services throughout.

    Let's face it: the Conservatives have done a bloody good job on the economy, aided by sensible Liberal Democrats in the early years.
  • Options
    QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,949
    To pop back to Gorton betting, I don't get the 2nd place odds on Betfair.

    So Galloway has thrown his trilby into the ring. He's stunned Labour once, but the markets are skeptical about him doing so twice. Gorton isn't as good for him demographically, and his star doesn't shine as bright generally as it once did.

    But surely a 15-20% performance is entirely plausible, probably not even the upper bounds of his probabilities. What were the LDs expected to get before today's excitement? I'd guess about the same.

    We're starting from a very low base, and without any councillors. Our record there is good circa 2010, but that was a different time. And we killed it in Witney and Richmond Park, but did disappointingly in Copeland and Stoke. Sure, Gorton is a Remain seat. But it's also an opposition seat, a student seat, and a very very Labour seat.

    What if the LDs do a bit disappointingly again? 15% seems plausible there without us underperforming that much, and 15% for Galloway seems plausible without him overperforming that much.

    But the odds on LDs second are 1/6, and 6/1 on Galloway. I'll buy the LDs as favourite, but surely no more than 1/2. 1/3 max.

    (I've laid LDs at 1/6 for a modest sum.)
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,941

    Sean_F said:

    Cutting the deficit by 8.5% of GDP over 7 years is good achievement, despite what Don Brind thinks.

    Whilst achieving the lowest unemployment rate since the 1970s, more or less continued economic growth, no collapse in house prices, and maintaining decent public services throughout.

    Let's face it: the Conservatives have done a bloody good job on the economy, aided by sensible Liberal Democrats in the early years.
    Yup - credit where it is due.

    The moaning Tory minnies on the backbenches still won't do what needs doing (cf NI rise and Tax credit changes - both entirely sensible); wheras the orange bookers seized the mantle
  • Options
    ArtistArtist Posts: 1,882
    Labour's vote held up pretty well in the West Midlands local elections last year, especially in Birmingham itself. It'll be a tough sell promoting an obscure politician over a successful businessman though.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,719
    Dixie said:

    kle4 said:

    Dixie said:

    chestnut said:

    From today's PSNB release:

    Govt Borrowing YTD £47.8bn
    Gross Interest YTD £47.5bn

    The ONS figures are rapidly becoming a joke.

    The government has over-estimated borrowing by tens of billions over the course of the year, when comparing the initial estimate of any given month with what it is now believed to have been.

    This months' revision was more than £3bn.
    They exaggerated it because they said Brexit BREXIT would increase borrowing. Another lie by Media Baron George.
    It's possible he was just wrong.
    as Chancellor could he be that wrong? Recessions don't happen overnight. he lied
    Depends how good a chancellor he was.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,941
    Artist said:

    Labour's vote held up pretty well in the West Midlands local elections last year, especially in Birmingham itself. It'll be a tough sell promoting an obscure politician over a successful businessman though.

    Soon there will be an election where Labour's candidate will sink further into obscurity...
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,056
    The combined votes in the two areas in 2008 (Labour's worst recent election year):

    Greater Manchester
    Con 211,500
    Lab 208,924
    LibD 153,281
    Oth 70,450

    West Midlands
    Con 241,960
    Lab 184,097
    LibD 104,511
    Oth 93,380

    Striking how well the LibDems used to do.
  • Options

    On topic, I fear this may be a good value loser. Though I'm sure Pulpstar will be dancing a fretful mazurka if it comes in.

    Surely Pulpstar will shatter the glass paradigm if he wins this bet.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,304
    That David Goodhart article is superb.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,052
    Dixie said:

    kle4 said:

    Dixie said:

    chestnut said:

    From today's PSNB release:

    Govt Borrowing YTD £47.8bn
    Gross Interest YTD £47.5bn

    The ONS figures are rapidly becoming a joke.

    The government has over-estimated borrowing by tens of billions over the course of the year, when comparing the initial estimate of any given month with what it is now believed to have been.

    This months' revision was more than £3bn.
    They exaggerated it because they said Brexit BREXIT would increase borrowing. Another lie by Media Baron George.
    It's possible he was just wrong.
    as Chancellor could he be that wrong? Recessions don't happen overnight. he lied
    He was upholding the fiction that Article 50 would be invoked immediately.

    Mais après May, le déluge...
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,941

    That David Goodhart article is superb.

    DG should, if he plays it right, be the next big thing in British cultural-political analysis.
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    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    That David Goodhart article is superb.

    Here's Andrew Marr on the book too: http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/03/anywheres-vs-somewheres-split-made-brexit-inevitable
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    Thanks Pulps, a very tasty looking bet there, although my 6/4 with Ladbrokes just fell short of the odds you managed to secure.
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited March 2017
    Are we expecting any mayoral polling?
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    Pong said:

    Are we expecting any mayoral polling?

    Publicly? Very unlikely.

    Privately? Already happened.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,914
    Mortimer said:

    That David Goodhart article is superb.

    DG should, if he plays it right, be the next big thing in British cultural-political analysis.
    Tim, pbuh, is one of his biggest haters IIRC
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,304
    Mortimer said:

    That David Goodhart article is superb.

    DG should, if he plays it right, be the next big thing in British cultural-political analysis.
    I think he already is.

    I find it interesting how friends have abandoned him, walked out on him in social situations and deployed the "R" word at him, even in his own family/extended family.

    I have experienced much of the same.
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,941
    isam said:

    Mortimer said:

    That David Goodhart article is superb.

    DG should, if he plays it right, be the next big thing in British cultural-political analysis.
    Tim, pbuh, is one of his biggest haters IIRC
    That is a badge of honour, surely?
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,190
    Mortimer said:

    AndyJS said:

    Thought-provoking article by David Goodhart:

    "Why I left my liberal London tribe
    As a divided Britain prepares for Brexit, David Goodhart reveals why he broke up with the metropolitan elite"

    https://www.ft.com/content/39a0867a-0974-11e7-ac5a-903b21361b43

    I think Goodhart's book is likely to become the set text on Brexit and Mayism. Though his bright-lines division of the population into Somewheres (50%) and Anywheres (25%)* is obviously an oversimplification, it does seem to have a good deal of explanatory power.


    * with 25% exhibiting elements of both
    Agreed.

    @Casino_Royale and other PBers keen on an Article 50 celebration. How about next Wednesday in Town?

    I'll be around and either poor but happy or flush but unhappy after what promises to be the best auction of the YTD.

    Any venue prefs?
    Can it not just be a celebration of life and shared interests and anyone who is around invited?

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    isamisam Posts: 40,914
    edited March 2017
    Mortimer said:

    AndyJS said:

    Thought-provoking article by David Goodhart:

    "Why I left my liberal London tribe
    As a divided Britain prepares for Brexit, David Goodhart reveals why he broke up with the metropolitan elite"

    https://www.ft.com/content/39a0867a-0974-11e7-ac5a-903b21361b43

    I think Goodhart's book is likely to become the set text on Brexit and Mayism. Though his bright-lines division of the population into Somewheres (50%) and Anywheres (25%)* is obviously an oversimplification, it does seem to have a good deal of explanatory power.


    * with 25% exhibiting elements of both
    Agreed.

    @Casino_Royale and other PBers keen on an Article 50 celebration. How about next Wednesday in Town?

    I'll be around and either poor but happy or flush but unhappy after what promises to be the best auction of the YTD.

    Any venue prefs?
    It's just yourself, @Cyclefree et moi at the moment ☹️
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,941

    Mortimer said:

    That David Goodhart article is superb.

    DG should, if he plays it right, be the next big thing in British cultural-political analysis.
    I think he already is.

    I find it interesting how friends have abandoned him, walked out on him in social situations and deployed the "R" word at him, even in his own family/extended family.

    I have experienced much of the same.
    Snap. It has really quite shocked me.

    I mean, as a card carrying Tory I've always been looked upon with suspicion by my largely Anywhere mates, but the numerous attempts to close down debates on immigration when I mention any negative effects is both hilarious and somewhat worrying at the same time.
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,941
    Cyclefree said:

    Mortimer said:

    AndyJS said:

    Thought-provoking article by David Goodhart:

    "Why I left my liberal London tribe
    As a divided Britain prepares for Brexit, David Goodhart reveals why he broke up with the metropolitan elite"

    https://www.ft.com/content/39a0867a-0974-11e7-ac5a-903b21361b43

    I think Goodhart's book is likely to become the set text on Brexit and Mayism. Though his bright-lines division of the population into Somewheres (50%) and Anywheres (25%)* is obviously an oversimplification, it does seem to have a good deal of explanatory power.


    * with 25% exhibiting elements of both
    Agreed.

    @Casino_Royale and other PBers keen on an Article 50 celebration. How about next Wednesday in Town?

    I'll be around and either poor but happy or flush but unhappy after what promises to be the best auction of the YTD.

    Any venue prefs?
    Can it not just be a celebration of life and shared interests and anyone who is around invited?

    Of course!

    It isn't meant to be in any way exclusive - it was just mooted a month or so back to coincide with the triggering.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,304
    Mortimer said:

    AndyJS said:

    Thought-provoking article by David Goodhart:

    "Why I left my liberal London tribe
    As a divided Britain prepares for Brexit, David Goodhart reveals why he broke up with the metropolitan elite"

    https://www.ft.com/content/39a0867a-0974-11e7-ac5a-903b21361b43

    I think Goodhart's book is likely to become the set text on Brexit and Mayism. Though his bright-lines division of the population into Somewheres (50%) and Anywheres (25%)* is obviously an oversimplification, it does seem to have a good deal of explanatory power.


    * with 25% exhibiting elements of both
    Agreed.

    @Casino_Royale and other PBers keen on an Article 50 celebration. How about next Wednesday in Town?

    I'll be around and either poor but happy or flush but unhappy after what promises to be the best auction of the YTD.

    Any venue prefs?
    I'm game.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    That David Goodhart article is just Common People in prose, with a side order of martyrdom.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,190
    Completely O/T and apologies in advance but on the Irish question:

    Sometimes you have to do deals with bad people and McGuinness – eventually – played his part in trying to sort out the mess he created. But let's not imagine virtues that did not exist. Whatever he did in the peace process did not involve saying sorry for what the IRA did. Nor did it involve justice for the dead and wounded and the widows and widowers and orphans and all those deprived of people they loved. They should not be forgotten, today of all days.

    Making this simple point somehow seems controversial. As if it is somehow not done to look past the cheery smile. All that killing and pain. And for what? A NI still in the UK and what has been achieved could have been achieved decades ago if the men of peace had been as celebrated and fawned over and supported as much as the men of violence.

    We live in a meritocracy where people with no experience or knowledge whatsoever can be appointed to senior jobs and where any notion that man is a moral animal and can make a choice between good and evil and be held accountable for his/her choices is seen as something quaintly old-fashioned if not downright perverse.

    There. I have got that off my chest.

    Sorry.

    Off to have my dinner now.
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,941
    SeanT said:

    Hello PB. I wrote another 3240 words today. In two hours.

    Tomorrow I will finish the first draft. A 93,000 word novel in two months and one day.

    No idea if it is any good, could be anything from dreck to worldbeater, but I sure did it quick.

    Here's the thing. During the writing of this novel, when the writing has been most intense/prolific, I have been sleeping 10 or more hours a day, sometimes 12. In Thailand this came in the form of 2-3 hour siestas, then another 8 hours normal sleep, here in London I just conk out for 11 hours. Go to bed at 1am, wake up at noon. Write. Repeat.

    How odd is that? Has anyone else ever experienced something like this? Intense mental activity, requiring huge amounts of kip?

    Yup. Dissertation writing and finals revision....
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    isamisam Posts: 40,914

    That David Goodhart article is just Common People in prose, with a side order of martyrdom.

    'Common people' is probably the most succinct and accessible description of why the country is divided/whyBrexit happened.

    https://youtu.be/yuTMWgOduFM

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    NeilVWNeilVW Posts: 703
    Danny565 said:

    tlg86 said:

    If this seat isn't a boring Labour hold, Labour are in Extinction Level Event territory. That it's even worth a thread header as a speculative punt for anyone else is astonishing.

    Labour should be huge value here. Yet I can't bring myself to bet on them.

    Labour's position in Gorton is exaggerated by the unusual result in 2015. Had there been a by-election there in 2003/4, it'd have been a very likely Lib Dem gain.

    But it's a difficult election to read now with three candidates in the running. Lab should start favourite but Galloway's intervention throws the cat among them and you can see a number of ways that Labour could lose.
    Galloway and cat? An intentional joke?
    More an amusing reference point than joke but yes, intentional - not least because it exemplifies one of the difficulties he'll have: being taken seriously by enough people.
    Didn't stop him winning Bradford West.
    That seat had a history for very odd results (e.g. a swing from Labour to Tories in 1997).
    The Butler and Kavanagh book on the 1997 GE offers an explanation for that 5.5-point swing against the tide. In Bradford West, Labour stood a non-Muslim candidate (called Singh), the Tories a Muslim.

    There was also a 6-point swing to the Tories in Bethnal Green and Bow (another former Galloway haunt, of course) for a similar reason. Oona King's Conservative opponent was a Choudhury.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,304

    That David Goodhart article is just Common People in prose, with a side order of martyrdom.

    You'd do well to read it again, and again, until you understand it and appreciate it.

    He is bang on the money.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    @Cyclefree all that is true. But a Northern Ireland without late period Martin McGuinness would be a much worse, much sadder, much bloodier and much more backward-looking place.

    The Prime Minister's words were spot on.
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,941
    isam said:

    That David Goodhart article is just Common People in prose, with a side order of martyrdom.

    'Common people' is probably the most succinct and accessible description of why the country is divided/whyBrexit happened.

    https://youtu.be/yuTMWgOduFM

    Isn't there some connection to a certain Greek ex-Finance minister too?
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    DixieDixie Posts: 1,221

    Mortimer said:

    AndyJS said:

    Thought-provoking article by David Goodhart:

    "Why I left my liberal London tribe
    As a divided Britain prepares for Brexit, David Goodhart reveals why he broke up with the metropolitan elite"

    https://www.ft.com/content/39a0867a-0974-11e7-ac5a-903b21361b43

    I think Goodhart's book is likely to become the set text on Brexit and Mayism. Though his bright-lines division of the population into Somewheres (50%) and Anywheres (25%)* is obviously an oversimplification, it does seem to have a good deal of explanatory power.


    * with 25% exhibiting elements of both
    Agreed.

    @Casino_Royale and other PBers keen on an Article 50 celebration. How about next Wednesday in Town?

    I'll be around and either poor but happy or flush but unhappy after what promises to be the best auction of the YTD.

    Any venue prefs?
    I'm game.
    Town as in London? Or some provincial place?
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    That David Goodhart article is just Common People in prose, with a side order of martyrdom.

    You'd do well to read it again, and again, until you understand it and appreciate it.

    He is bang on the money.
    I've read it twice. It's not half as profound as you or he thinks it is.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,914
    Dixie said:

    Mortimer said:

    AndyJS said:

    Thought-provoking article by David Goodhart:

    "Why I left my liberal London tribe
    As a divided Britain prepares for Brexit, David Goodhart reveals why he broke up with the metropolitan elite"

    https://www.ft.com/content/39a0867a-0974-11e7-ac5a-903b21361b43

    I think Goodhart's book is likely to become the set text on Brexit and Mayism. Though his bright-lines division of the population into Somewheres (50%) and Anywheres (25%)* is obviously an oversimplification, it does seem to have a good deal of explanatory power.


    * with 25% exhibiting elements of both
    Agreed.

    @Casino_Royale and other PBers keen on an Article 50 celebration. How about next Wednesday in Town?

    I'll be around and either poor but happy or flush but unhappy after what promises to be the best auction of the YTD.

    Any venue prefs?
    I'm game.
    Town as in London? Or some provincial place?
    Oh London dahling, no riff raff ☺
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,941
    Dixie said:

    Mortimer said:

    AndyJS said:

    Thought-provoking article by David Goodhart:

    "Why I left my liberal London tribe
    As a divided Britain prepares for Brexit, David Goodhart reveals why he broke up with the metropolitan elite"

    https://www.ft.com/content/39a0867a-0974-11e7-ac5a-903b21361b43

    I think Goodhart's book is likely to become the set text on Brexit and Mayism. Though his bright-lines division of the population into Somewheres (50%) and Anywheres (25%)* is obviously an oversimplification, it does seem to have a good deal of explanatory power.


    * with 25% exhibiting elements of both
    Agreed.

    @Casino_Royale and other PBers keen on an Article 50 celebration. How about next Wednesday in Town?

    I'll be around and either poor but happy or flush but unhappy after what promises to be the best auction of the YTD.

    Any venue prefs?
    I'm game.
    Town as in London? Or some provincial place?
    I was thinking London, but am also at a loss as to a venue. My old haunts in Bloomsbury have largely become a bit Shoreditchy now.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Mhairi Black has tweeted that it's unfair Scotland has fewer MPs than London. Perhaps she doesn't know that London has about 3.5 million more people.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,052

    Mortimer said:

    That David Goodhart article is superb.

    DG should, if he plays it right, be the next big thing in British cultural-political analysis.
    I think he already is.

    I find it interesting how friends have abandoned him, walked out on him in social situations and deployed the "R" word at him, even in his own family/extended family.

    I have experienced much of the same.
    An Old Etonian who's run the gamut of self-righteousness throughout his life has merely discovered a new intellectual fad to lord over his rootless peers.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    isam said:

    That David Goodhart article is just Common People in prose, with a side order of martyrdom.

    'Common people' is probably the most succinct and accessible description of why the country is divided/whyBrexit happened.

    https://youtu.be/yuTMWgOduFM

    In my experience everyone thinks they're Jarvis Cocker in that song, no matter how implausible.
This discussion has been closed.