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tlg86

First

Scrapheap_as_was

Let's try and avoid cheap political points on this one....

TheScreamingEagles

Hope these are the only two fatalities.

Anorak

https://twitter.com/laurafleur/status/844592651269804034

HYUFD

Some unfortunate similarities to the attack on the Canadian Parliament in 2014 where a soldier was killed and several injured

TheScreamingEagles

Scrapheap_as_was said:

Let's try and avoid cheap political points on this one....

And defamatory comments too.

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Eagles, indeed. Sadly, the description of injuries on the bridge as 'catastrophic' does suggest there might be more.

TheScreamingEagles

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Eagles, indeed. Sadly, the description of injuries on the bridge as 'catastrophic' does suggest there might be more.

I know a few people who work in Parliament, they said it would be amazing if it was only two fatalities.

TOPPING

"Some time"?

Are we talking Twitter time (2mins = an age) or normal time?

FrancisUrquhart

HYUFD said:

Some unfortunate similarities to the attack on the Canadian Parliament in 2014 where a soldier was killed and several injured

I was just thinking about that...I don't remember if who the attacker was, motive etc was widely reported afterward.

FrancisUrquhart

Anorak said:

https://twitter.com/laurafleur/status/844592651269804034

Can't they have a mishap with the safety on their weapons?

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Eagles, alas.

The emergency services deserve enormous credit for the swiftness of their response. That may very well make a difference.

TheScreamingEagles

FrancisUrquhart said:

Anorak said:

https://twitter.com/laurafleur/status/844592651269804034

Can't they have a mishap with the safety on their weapons?

I hope not, he's a potential source of valuable intelligence.

MarqueeMark

FrancisUrquhart said:

Anorak said:

https://twitter.com/laurafleur/status/844592651269804034

Can't they have a mishap with the safety on their weapons?

No. Keep the fucker from his virgins.

isam

FrancisUrquhart said:

Anorak said:

https://twitter.com/laurafleur/status/844592651269804034

Can't they have a mishap with the safety on their weapons?

Al Blackman has done about 3 years for that

FrancisUrquhart

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Anorak said:

https://twitter.com/laurafleur/status/844592651269804034

Can't they have a mishap with the safety on their weapons?

I hope not, he's a potential source of valuable intelligence.

In tribute to Martin McGuiness perhaps in the kneecap area?

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Urquhart, any perpetrator might have useful intelligence.

We need a return to common law, away from cultural sensitivities and Sharia nonsense. That also means everyone is treated equally under the law. Even reprehensible men have certain rights, much as it might stick in the craw. That is, ultimately, the difference between civilisation and barbarity.

[That said, if any perpetrator were to develop kidney stones, I would not necessarily drown in tears].

Alanbrooke

sheesh

three hours stuck in the London Eye

poor sods

Anorak

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Anorak said:

https://twitter.com/laurafleur/status/844592651269804034

Can't they have a mishap with the safety on their weapons?

I hope not, he's a potential source of valuable intelligence.

Quite. You seem to have a great deal more sense than this flower:
https://twitter.com/EmmaWasp1/status/844605332445958144
I don't look at twitter too much these days, other than accounts of fairly mainstream journos. That sort of tweet reminds me why.

FrancisUrquhart

Alanbrooke said:

sheesh

three hours stuck in the London Eye

poor sods

On a £/min basis they got a bargain...I bet there are a few dying for a piss though.

HYUFD

FrancisUrquhart said:

HYUFD said:

Some unfortunate similarities to the attack on the Canadian Parliament in 2014 where a soldier was killed and several injured

I was just thinking about that...I don't remember if who the attacker was, motive etc was widely reported afterward.

A Canadian Libyan Muslim convert apparently
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_shootings_at_Parliament_Hill,_Ottawa

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Anorak, there's lots of wonderful little nuggets of information and insight on Twitter. And lots of batshit insane maniacs.

Alanbrooke

FrancisUrquhart said:

Alanbrooke said:

sheesh

three hours stuck in the London Eye

poor sods

On a £/min basis they got a bargain...I bet there are a few dying for a piss though.

you wouldnt want to be a middle aged man who had had a couple of pints at lunchtime

oxfordsimon

Alanbrooke said:

sheesh

three hours stuck in the London Eye

poor sods

Does seem unnecessary. Fully understand that they would want to keep it closed - but surely a phased evacuation could have been facilitated.

Mortimer

Alanbrooke said:

sheesh

three hours stuck in the London Eye

poor sods

Ouch.

On 21/7 I was there with Mum. I'd noticed that they'd stoped loading new passengers on and then saw the area flooded with armed police and dogs. Never been so fearful as when they let us off and all phone signals were down...

SimonStClare

Phew, so glad to see the new thread did not involve betting odds…

TheScreamingEagles

Anorak said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Anorak said:

https://twitter.com/laurafleur/status/844592651269804034

Can't they have a mishap with the safety on their weapons?

I hope not, he's a potential source of valuable intelligence.

Quite. You seem to have a great deal more sense than this flower:
https://twitter.com/EmmaWasp1/status/844605332445958144
I don't look at twitter too much these days, other than accounts of fairly mainstream journos. That sort of tweet reminds me why.

I'm a true Englishman, I believe in keeping calm and keep buggering on.

As a true Englishman, I also believe in the rule of law.

isam

4 dead inc attacker

20 injured

TheScreamingEagles

Four dead now, including the attacker.

Twenty injured.

Tim_B

Now 4 deaths.

tlg86

The attacker is dead.

FrancisUrquhart

tlg86 said:

The attacker is dead.

Shame.

AlastairMeeks

.

The_Apocalypse

Four now dead, although one of those was the attacker.

At least 20 people injured.

Thought to be one attacker.

kle4

Nobody has claimed this one yet it seems, when even lone wolf ones it seems groups are usually keen.

Morris_Dancer

Mr. kle4, they can take a few hours to claim responsibility. Wouldn't be surprised if it takes a while yet, or even happens tomorrow.

oxfordsimon

kle4 said:

Nobody has claimed this one yet it seems, when even lone wolf ones it seems groups are usually keen.

Even if they have, I am quite happy for that to be kept from the public for now. We don't have to buy into their media plans.

FrancisUrquhart

the hint from the plod was they are currently knocking doors down.

Anorak

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. kle4, they can take a few hours to claim responsibility. Wouldn't be surprised if it takes a while yet, or even happens tomorrow.

Indeed, rolling news and Twitter does not indicate that everything must happen, and everyone must respond within minutes of an incident, or it's "strange".

Tim_B

FrancisUrquhart said:

the hint from the plod was they are currently knocking doors down.

I doubt they're in "Avon lady" mode......

TwistedFireStopper

SeanT said:

Horrible. Just horrible.

Catastrophic injuries.

Sad day for London.

Not just London.

murali_s

SeanT said:

Horrible. Just horrible.

Catastrophic injuries.

Sad day for London.

Indeed it is Sean. Just wonder what if anything we can do to prevent such attacks.

Tim_B

SeanT said:

Horrible. Just horrible.

Catastrophic injuries.

Sad day for London.

Sad day for freedom loving people everywhere....

DecrepitJohnL

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. kle4, they can take a few hours to claim responsibility. Wouldn't be surprised if it takes a while yet, or even happens tomorrow.

Especially when it is a lone wolf, as the "responsible" groups need to wait till the media tell them who the attacker was "inspired" by.

Theuniondivvie

Diaper Don being 'helpful'.

https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/844594059679334400

Tim_B

murali_s said:

SeanT said:

Horrible. Just horrible.

Catastrophic injuries.

Sad day for London.

Indeed it is Sean. Just wonder what if anything we can do to prevent such attacks.

You can only do so much in a free society.

oxfordsimon

murali_s said:

SeanT said:

Horrible. Just horrible.

Catastrophic injuries.

Sad day for London.

Indeed it is Sean. Just wonder what if anything we can do to prevent such attacks.

There is nothing. We cannot identify everyone who might be capable of such things. We cannot prevent someone using their own vehicle as a weapon. That is what makes it scary.

It is far easier to deal with a conspiracy than it is with an individual.

Animal_pb

murali_s said:

SeanT said:

Horrible. Just horrible.

Catastrophic injuries.

Sad day for London.

Indeed it is Sean. Just wonder what if anything we can do to prevent such attacks.

The fact that the enemy is having to resort to this kind of attack - car vs pedestrian, about the softest target possible - tells us the security services are winning. The only thing that can prevent these attacks long term is a cultural change that places this kind of suicide-bombing-by-car as beyond the pale evil, not an entry ticket to paradise.

TwistedFireStopper

SeanT said:

oxfordsimon said:

murali_s said:

SeanT said:

Horrible. Just horrible.

Catastrophic injuries.

Sad day for London.

Indeed it is Sean. Just wonder what if anything we can do to prevent such attacks.

There is nothing. We cannot identify everyone who might be capable of such things. We cannot prevent someone using their own vehicle as a weapon. That is what makes it scary.

It is far easier to deal with a conspiracy than it is with an individual.

Yes, impossible to defend. Which, as you say, makes it worse.

It's just been a surprise that it too so long. Let's just hope it doesn't embolden more inadequates to think they can have a go.

RobD

murali_s said:

SeanT said:

Horrible. Just horrible.

Catastrophic injuries.

Sad day for London.

Indeed it is Sean. Just wonder what if anything we can do to prevent such attacks.

IRA terrorism subsided, and I hope ISIS will too soon. What it will be replaced with remains to be seen. I look forward to the day we are on a "Low" threat level.

oxfordsimon

Animal_pb said:

murali_s said:

SeanT said:

Horrible. Just horrible.

Catastrophic injuries.

Sad day for London.

Indeed it is Sean. Just wonder what if anything we can do to prevent such attacks.

The fact that the enemy is having to resort to this kind of attack - car vs pedestrian, about the softest target possible - tells us the security services are winning. The only thing that can prevent these attacks long term is a cultural change that places this kind of suicide-bombing-by-car as beyond the pale evil, not an entry ticket to paradise.

That sort of change can only come from within the communities where such thinking currently exists. It is not something that can be imposed. The solution rests with moderates within those communities to bring about a reformation of sorts.

I don't see it happening soon - if at all.

NickPalmer

oxfordsimon said:

kle4 said:

Nobody has claimed this one yet it seems, when even lone wolf ones it seems groups are usually keen.

Even if they have, I am quite happy for that to be kept from the public for now. We don't have to buy into their media plans.

Hear hear.

In reply to earlier points:

- The Parliamentary estate is huge, rambling and full of obscure rooms, cupboards, etc. - I don't think I ever saw it all in 13 years. So it's appropriate for the police to want to do a thorough search, and it would be reasonable to suspend proceedings this week while that's carried out, if there is any reason to think that someone might have got in. If they're confident that they didn't, apart from the dead man, then IMO business should resume.

- It ought not to have been possible for the attacker to enter the main hall with a knife and a review of security is needed if that happened. Essentially you need to go through airport-style security unless you actually work there yourself.

I concur with everything that's been said about the swift reactions and about Ellwood's actions - he should be rightly proud of himself and I hope he isn't haunted by the experience. There must be individual officers whose names we don't know who also deserve special praise when the dust has settled. It's very easy for people in apparently routine security jobs to be slow to react, and it's wonderful when they rise to the occasion.

Morris_Dancer

Mr. D, I fear that's overly optimistic.

Irish terrorism had a discernible political objective that could be, if not achieved wholly, sought partially through peaceful means. Islamic terrorism seems to have no comparable objective beyond, ultimately, establishing a caliphate and imposing Sharia generally.

Incidentally, I think it's fair enough neither Khan nor May have commented yet, as the situation appears to be ongoing.

HurstLlama

oxfordsimon said:

Animal_pb said:

murali_s said:

SeanT said:

Horrible. Just horrible.

Catastrophic injuries.

Sad day for London.

Indeed it is Sean. Just wonder what if anything we can do to prevent such attacks.

The fact that the enemy is having to resort to this kind of attack - car vs pedestrian, about the softest target possible - tells us the security services are winning. The only thing that can prevent these attacks long term is a cultural change that places this kind of suicide-bombing-by-car as beyond the pale evil, not an entry ticket to paradise.

That sort of change can only come from within the communities where such thinking currently exists. It is not something that can be imposed. The solution rests with moderates within those communities to bring about a reformation of sorts.

I don't see it happening soon - if at all.

Don't stop there, Mr. Simon, please follow the logic all the way.

oxfordsimon

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. D, I fear that's overly optimistic.

Irish terrorism had a discernible political objective that could be, if not achieved wholly, sought partially through peaceful means. Islamic terrorism seems to have no comparable objective beyond, ultimately, establishing a caliphate and imposing Sharia generally.

Incidentally, I think it's fair enough neither Khan nor May have commented yet, as the situation appears to be ongoing.

Khan has issued a statement - expressing sorrow for those affecting and praising the efforts of the security and emergency services.

rottenborough

Bleak times indeed.

oxfordsimon

HurstLlama said:

oxfordsimon said:

Animal_pb said:

murali_s said:

SeanT said:

Horrible. Just horrible.

Catastrophic injuries.

Sad day for London.

Indeed it is Sean. Just wonder what if anything we can do to prevent such attacks.

The fact that the enemy is having to resort to this kind of attack - car vs pedestrian, about the softest target possible - tells us the security services are winning. The only thing that can prevent these attacks long term is a cultural change that places this kind of suicide-bombing-by-car as beyond the pale evil, not an entry ticket to paradise.

That sort of change can only come from within the communities where such thinking currently exists. It is not something that can be imposed. The solution rests with moderates within those communities to bring about a reformation of sorts.

I don't see it happening soon - if at all.

Don't stop there, Mr. Simon, please follow the logic all the way.

I am not sure what you want me to say.

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Simon, ah, I'd missed that.

TwistedFireStopper

SeanT said:

Animal_pb said:

murali_s said:

SeanT said:

Horrible. Just horrible.

Catastrophic injuries.

Sad day for London.

Indeed it is Sean. Just wonder what if anything we can do to prevent such attacks.

The fact that the enemy is having to resort to this kind of attack - car vs pedestrian, about the softest target possible - tells us the security services are winning. The only thing that can prevent these attacks long term is a cultural change that places this kind of suicide-bombing-by-car as beyond the pale evil, not an entry ticket to paradise.

Plus self driving cars. These attacks are actually quite a compelling argument for them.

They could also be quite an effective bomb delivery system for fellas who don't fancy meeting the virgins just yet.

Floater

That Tory mp who performed cpr is an absolute legend

Hat off to the guy

Alanbrooke

HurstLlama said:

oxfordsimon said:

Animal_pb said:

murali_s said:

SeanT said:

Horrible. Just horrible.

Catastrophic injuries.

Sad day for London.

Indeed it is Sean. Just wonder what if anything we can do to prevent such attacks.

The fact that the enemy is having to resort to this kind of attack - car vs pedestrian, about the softest target possible - tells us the security services are winning. The only thing that can prevent these attacks long term is a cultural change that places this kind of suicide-bombing-by-car as beyond the pale evil, not an entry ticket to paradise.

That sort of change can only come from within the communities where such thinking currently exists. It is not something that can be imposed. The solution rests with moderates within those communities to bring about a reformation of sorts.

I don't see it happening soon - if at all.

Don't stop there, Mr. Simon, please follow the logic all the way.

I travel through the Asian quarter in birmingham to and from work every day.

ir's quite noticeable that the ladies whose faces you see are mostly over fifty, all the younger ones screen their faces and wear black. This is a community which is de-integrating and sees itself as a group apart.how the hell this is going to change this is beyond me.

MaxPB

Wow, absolutely horrible scenes from London. Hopefully they got some information out of the savage before he died.

ThreeQuidder

La Stampa is reporting that the dead terrorist is Abu Izzadeen, aka Trevor Brooks.

https://twitter.com/LaStampa/status/844610940188475392

DecrepitJohnL

NickPalmer said:

oxfordsimon said:

kle4 said:

Nobody has claimed this one yet it seems, when even lone wolf ones it seems groups are usually keen.

Even if they have, I am quite happy for that to be kept from the public for now. We don't have to buy into their media plans.

Hear hear.

In reply to earlier points:

- The Parliamentary estate is huge, rambling and full of obscure rooms, cupboards, etc. - I don't think I ever saw it all in 13 years. So it's appropriate for the police to want to do a thorough search, and it would be reasonable to suspend proceedings this week while that's carried out, if there is any reason to think that someone might have got in. If they're confident that they didn't, apart from the dead man, then IMO business should resume.

- It ought not to have been possible for the attacker to enter the main hall with a knife and a review of security is needed if that happened. Essentially you need to go through airport-style security unless you actually work there yourself.

I concur with everything that's been said about the swift reactions and about Ellwood's actions - he should be rightly proud of himself and I hope he isn't haunted by the experience. There must be individual officers whose names we don't know who also deserve special praise when the dust has settled. It's very easy for people in apparently routine security jobs to be slow to react, and it's wonderful when they rise to the occasion.

Much is made of the security measures to get in, but after the incident it was reported (perhaps wrongly) that bystanders were bundled inside for safety. If this is true then it seems unlikely they were frisked first. If.

Morris_Dancer

Mr. T, until they can be hacked into. Then multiple vehicles could be driven into a crowd at once.

TwistedFireStopper

ThreeQuidder said:

La Stampa is reporting that the dead terrorist is Abu Izzadeen, aka Trevor Brooks.

https://twitter.com/LaStampa/status/844610940188475392

How the hell does that come out so quiclyk, if it is actually true?

williamglenn

SeanT said:

Animal_pb said:

murali_s said:

SeanT said:

Horrible. Just horrible.

Catastrophic injuries.

Sad day for London.

Indeed it is Sean. Just wonder what if anything we can do to prevent such attacks.

The fact that the enemy is having to resort to this kind of attack - car vs pedestrian, about the softest target possible - tells us the security services are winning. The only thing that can prevent these attacks long term is a cultural change that places this kind of suicide-bombing-by-car as beyond the pale evil, not an entry ticket to paradise.

Plus self driving cars. These attacks are actually quite a compelling argument for them.

Or even just assisted driving technology that can override a malicious driver. The Berlin attack would have been worse if the truck didn't have automatic braking

Floater

TwistedFireStopper said:

ThreeQuidder said:

La Stampa is reporting that the dead terrorist is Abu Izzadeen, aka Trevor Brooks.

https://twitter.com/LaStampa/status/844610940188475392

How the hell does that come out so quiclyk, if it is actually true?

Is that true?

kle4

TwistedFireStopper said:

ThreeQuidder said:

La Stampa is reporting that the dead terrorist is Abu Izzadeen, aka Trevor Brooks.

https://twitter.com/LaStampa/status/844610940188475392

How the hell does that come out so quiclyk, if it is actually true?

Does seem incredible, though its been known to happen. I guess random person sees footage and thinks they recognise the attacker, and things run from there. If they have a previous record its probably fairly quick to check up on.

CarlottaVance

TwistedFireStopper said:

ThreeQuidder said:

La Stampa is reporting that the dead terrorist is Abu Izzadeen, aka Trevor Brooks.

https://twitter.com/LaStampa/status/844610940188475392

How the hell does that come out so quiclyk, if it is actually true?

There are several reports - afaik it's based on the purported similarity between the body on the street and previous photos of Mr Brooks.

williamglenn

TwistedFireStopper said:

ThreeQuidder said:

La Stampa is reporting that the dead terrorist is Abu Izzadeen, aka Trevor Brooks.

https://twitter.com/LaStampa/status/844610940188475392

How the hell does that come out so quiclyk, if it is actually true?

There were photos circulating of the attacker being treated. He was probably recognised.

PlatoSaid

Several sources on Twitter suggesting identity of terrorist.

A known threat if correct.

PlatoSaid

Euro News
#WestminsterAttack: Attacker "zigzagged" through street https://t.co/IDjeuEXsB9 https://t.co/mm97TT5VZW

Video

oxfordsimon

I guess if the attacker had been using their own vehicle then working out his identity could be quite straightforward. Time will tell.

Hertsmere_Pubgoer

kle4 said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

ThreeQuidder said:

La Stampa is reporting that the dead terrorist is Abu Izzadeen, aka Trevor Brooks.

https://twitter.com/LaStampa/status/844610940188475392

How the hell does that come out so quiclyk, if it is actually true?

Does seem incredible, though its been known to happen. I guess random person sees footage and thinks they recognise the attacker, and things run from there. If they have a previous record its probably fairly quick to check up on.

Wasn't that the bloke who heckled John Reid when he was HS?

dr_spyn

@ThreeQuidder

If it is the same guy, he had a 2 year sentence after a trial in Jan 2016.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/islamic-extremists-jailed-serious-deliberate-7142974

Floater

Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:

kle4 said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

ThreeQuidder said:

La Stampa is reporting that the dead terrorist is Abu Izzadeen, aka Trevor Brooks.

https://twitter.com/LaStampa/status/844610940188475392

How the hell does that come out so quiclyk, if it is actually true?

Does seem incredible, though its been known to happen. I guess random person sees footage and thinks they recognise the attacker, and things run from there. If they have a previous record its probably fairly quick to check up on.

Wasn't that the bloke who heckled John Reid when he was HS?

Yep - amongst other things

HurstLlama

Alanbrooke said:

HurstLlama said:

oxfordsimon said:

Animal_pb said:

murali_s said:

SeanT said:

Horrible. Just horrible.

Catastrophic injuries.

Sad day for London.

Indeed it is Sean. Just wonder what if anything we can do to prevent such attacks.

The fact that the enemy is having to resort to this kind of attack - car vs pedestrian, about the softest target possible - tells us the security services are winning. The only thing that can prevent these attacks long term is a cultural change that places this kind of suicide-bombing-by-car as beyond the pale evil, not an entry ticket to paradise.

That sort of change can only come from within the communities where such thinking currently exists. It is not something that can be imposed. The solution rests with moderates within those communities to bring about a reformation of sorts.

I don't see it happening soon - if at all.

Don't stop there, Mr. Simon, please follow the logic all the way.

I travel through the Asian quarter in birmingham to and from work every day.

ir's quite noticeable that the ladies whose faces you see are mostly over fifty, all the younger ones screen their faces and wear black. This is a community which is de-integrating and sees itself as a group apart.how the hell this is going to change this is beyond me.

It never will, Mr. Brooke, until the powers that be actually admit there is a problem. All the time we/they pussyfoot around the issue then it will get worse.

Monksfield

Low tech terror is so easy and virtually impossible to anticipate

williamglenn

dr_spyn said:

@ThreeQuidder

If it is the same guy, he had a 2 year sentence after a trial in Jan 2016.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/islamic-extremists-jailed-serious-deliberate-7142974

If true then May has a serious political problem.

Although I suppose it would have been on Gove's watch?

DecrepitJohnL

kle4 said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

ThreeQuidder said:

La Stampa is reporting that the dead terrorist is Abu Izzadeen, aka Trevor Brooks.

https://twitter.com/LaStampa/status/844610940188475392

How the hell does that come out so quiclyk, if it is actually true?

Does seem incredible, though its been known to happen. I guess random person sees footage and thinks they recognise the attacker, and things run from there. If they have a previous record its probably fairly quick to check up on.

I'm sceptical of recognition based on blurred television images, especially as many reports will just be parroting whatever the last report said.

Jason

Alanbrooke said:

HurstLlama said:

oxfordsimon said:

Animal_pb said:

murali_s said:

SeanT said:

Horrible. Just horrible.

Catastrophic injuries.

Sad day for London.

Indeed it is Sean. Just wonder what if anything we can do to prevent such attacks.

The fact that the enemy is having to resort to this kind of attack - car vs pedestrian, about the softest target possible - tells us the security services are winning. The only thing that can prevent these attacks long term is a cultural change that places this kind of suicide-bombing-by-car as beyond the pale evil, not an entry ticket to paradise.

That sort of change can only come from within the communities where such thinking currently exists. It is not something that can be imposed. The solution rests with moderates within those communities to bring about a reformation of sorts.

I don't see it happening soon - if at all.

Don't stop there, Mr. Simon, please follow the logic all the way.

I travel through the Asian quarter in birmingham to and from work every day.

ir's quite noticeable that the ladies whose faces you see are mostly over fifty, all the younger ones screen their faces and wear black. This is a community which is de-integrating and sees itself as a group apart.how the hell this is going to change this is beyond me.

It won't change because there is no political will to ensure that. Try it, and a good proportion of the political establishment will accuse you of being a racist and a fascist. Moral cowardice does not even begin to describe appeasement.

Floater

williamglenn said:

dr_spyn said:

@ThreeQuidder

If it is the same guy, he had a 2 year sentence after a trial in Jan 2016.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/islamic-extremists-jailed-serious-deliberate-7142974

If true then May has a serious political problem.</blockquote

Not sure if I agree with that

kle4

DecrepitJohnL said:

kle4 said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

ThreeQuidder said:

La Stampa is reporting that the dead terrorist is Abu Izzadeen, aka Trevor Brooks.

https://twitter.com/LaStampa/status/844610940188475392

How the hell does that come out so quiclyk, if it is actually true?

Does seem incredible, though its been known to happen. I guess random person sees footage and thinks they recognise the attacker, and things run from there. If they have a previous record its probably fairly quick to check up on.

I'm sceptical of recognition based on blurred television images, especially as many reports will just be parroting whatever the last report said.

Agreed, such a method will not always identify the correct person, but I imagine that's how these very quick reports begin.

Morris_Dancer

Just got very odd deja vu over certain things. Hmm. Mr. Glenn's post below and a couple of tweets on my Politics list.

.... quite an odd feeling. (I know deja vu always is, but still).

I hope there isn't a worse attack in the next few days.

Edited extra bit: whilst I'm being self-indulgent (I hope you don't mind), I once had deja vu solidly for about 30 minutes. It was bloody weird, and I was rather relieved when it stopped.

Floater

HurstLlama said:

Alanbrooke said:

HurstLlama said:

oxfordsimon said:

Animal_pb said:

murali_s said:

SeanT said:

Horrible. Just horrible.

Catastrophic injuries.

Sad day for London.

Indeed it is Sean. Just wonder what if anything we can do to prevent such attacks.

The fact that the enemy is having to resort to this kind of attack - car vs pedestrian, about the softest target possible - tells us the security services are winning. The only thing that can prevent these attacks long term is a cultural change that places this kind of suicide-bombing-by-car as beyond the pale evil, not an entry ticket to paradise.

That sort of change can only come from within the communities where such thinking currently exists. It is not something that can be imposed. The solution rests with moderates within those communities to bring about a reformation of sorts.

I don't see it happening soon - if at all.

Don't stop there, Mr. Simon, please follow the logic all the way.

I travel through the Asian quarter in birmingham to and from work every day.

ir's quite noticeable that the ladies whose faces you see are mostly over fifty, all the younger ones screen their faces and wear black. This is a community which is de-integrating and sees itself as a group apart.how the hell this is going to change this is beyond me.

It never will, Mr. Brooke, until the powers that be actually admit there is a problem. All the time we/they pussyfoot around the issue then it will get worse.

Absolutely

JosiasJessop

SeanT said:

Animal_pb said:

murali_s said:

SeanT said:

Horrible. Just horrible.

Catastrophic injuries.

Sad day for London.

Indeed it is Sean. Just wonder what if anything we can do to prevent such attacks.

The fact that the enemy is having to resort to this kind of attack - car vs pedestrian, about the softest target possible - tells us the security services are winning. The only thing that can prevent these attacks long term is a cultural change that places this kind of suicide-bombing-by-car as beyond the pale evil, not an entry ticket to paradise.

Plus self driving cars. These attacks are actually quite a compelling argument for them.

Until the bad guys manage to hack into the systems and cause all cars to swerve sharply to the right ...

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/sep/20/tesla-model-s-chinese-hack-remote-control-brakes

Y0kel

Seems a bit of a change in MO for Brooksy if it was him. If it is, something has changed,

TwistedFireStopper

Trevor Brooks does seem to have quite a high profile.

isam

Why did my post get taken down while all the others "naming" the attacker remain?

Malmesbury

williamglenn said:

dr_spyn said:

@ThreeQuidder

If it is the same guy, he had a 2 year sentence after a trial in Jan 2016.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/islamic-extremists-jailed-serious-deliberate-7142974

If true then May has a serious political problem.

Although I suppose it would have been on Gove's watch?

You are aware that serving a full sentence in the UK is close to impossible?

He would have been out in 12 months, minus time in prison awaiting trial...

Alanbrooke

french press stating 2 of the 3 injured schoolkids in a bad way

AndyJS

I hope it wasn't the person being named in various places, because he should have been under surveillance.

williamglenn

https://twitter.com/afneil/status/844621486275088385

tlg86

This may explain why we haven't heard from the PM. They know they're in the brown stuff.

TwistedFireStopper

It must drive the likes of Sky News and the BBC nuts that posters on twitter can post what they want, like naming the attacker, and they have to be far more circumspect.

Luckyguy1983

tlg86 said:

This may explain why we haven't heard from the PM. They know they're in the brown stuff.

Not good enough really.

oxfordsimon

AndyJS said:

I hope it wasn't the person being named in various places, because he should have been under surveillance.

And how do you think that surveillance would have stopped someone getting into their own car and going for a drive? How could it have worked out his intentions on this particular occasion?

Unless someone is under house arrest, they will be allowed a certain amount of freedom of movement around their home city.

How do you propose we see into their minds?

williamglenn

oxfordsimon said:

AndyJS said:

I hope it wasn't the person being named in various places, because he should have been under surveillance.

And how do you think that surveillance would have stopped someone getting into their own car and going for a drive? How could it have worked out his intentions on this particular occasion?

Unless someone is under house arrest, they will be allowed a certain amount of freedom of movement around their home city.

How do you propose we see into their minds?

He didn't stab the police officers with his car.

oxfordsimon

tlg86 said:

This may explain why we haven't heard from the PM. They know they're in the brown stuff.

Utter rubbish.