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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Looking forward to the County Council Elections 2017

With no by-elections tonight and five weeks until the local elections, I thought it might be an idea to have a look at how the counties (last elected in 2013) might go this time around. Of course, since that night we have had a large number of things happen, the first Conservative majority government since 1996, Milliband standing down and Corbyn getting elected as Labour leader (twice) and the small matter of an EU referendum, therefore I have had a look at the local by-elections held in county wards since the referendum and worked on the assumption that dependent on how that county voted at the referendum, the local by-elections will be indicative of the final result. Therefore I wish to present my forecast for the 2017 English County Council Elections

Read the full story here

Jonathan

Thirst

Just two days in and Brexit is already not going to plan. Shudders.

JosiasJessop

Thecond.

And thanks, Harry.

(I assume it's Harry, as there's no name attached).

MonikerDiCanio

Fird.

MarkSenior

As posted this morning there will also be 105 or 106 English council by elections on May 4th ( the status of the vacancy in South Derbyshire Woodville ward is uncertain )
Defenders will be

Con 59 or 60
Lab 29
LDem 10
UKIP 2
Green 1
Residents 1
Ind 3

dixiedean

Fifth like Everton after wins at Anfield and OT!

MonikerDiCanio

In this Leave Honour Roll , the Remains stick out like sore thumbs.

williamglenn

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-39449459

Sturgeon signs section 30 request in relaxed style.

Pulpstar

MarkSenior said:

As posted this morning there will also be 105 or 106 English council by elections on May 4th ( the status of the vacancy in South Derbyshire Woodville ward is uncertain )
Defenders will be

Con 59 or 60
Lab 29
LDem 10
UKIP 2
Green 1
Residents 1
Ind 3

Whats the story with Woodville ?

isam

"David Cameron has reinvented himself as a Brexiteer - saying he never 'liked' the EU and is glad he called the referendum."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4364528/Cameron-never-liked-EU-glad-called-referendum.html

Beverley_C

williamglenn said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-39449459

Sturgeon signs section 30 request in relaxed style.

It is her Kellyanne MacConway moment!!

JosiasJessop

In the really important news, later this evening SpaceX is planning to launch a rocket for a second time.

The rocket (or at least its first stage) launched a satellite a year ago, landed at sea, and is now being relaunched. Quite an important and historic launch.

I think the launch time's about 23.30 this evening, and will be livestreamed somewhere.

williamglenn

Beverley_C said:

williamglenn said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-39449459

Sturgeon signs section 30 request in relaxed style.

It is her Kellyanne MacConway moment!!

Or even a Margaret Thatcher moment...

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/19/b8/f2/19b8f2e23a81f43f47b7988cd0c0b637.jpg

welshowl

Beverley_C said:

williamglenn said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-39449459

Sturgeon signs section 30 request in relaxed style.

It is her Kellyanne MacConway moment!!

Like all normal living rooms it has a flag pole I note.

RobD

welshowl said:

Beverley_C said:

williamglenn said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-39449459

Sturgeon signs section 30 request in relaxed style.

It is her Kellyanne MacConway moment!!

Like all normal living rooms it has a flag pole I note.

I wonder if she forgets she's Scottish unless she doesn't see a Saltire on a regular basis?

TOPPING

Pulpstar said:

MarkSenior said:

As posted this morning there will also be 105 or 106 English council by elections on May 4th ( the status of the vacancy in South Derbyshire Woodville ward is uncertain )
Defenders will be

Con 59 or 60
Lab 29
LDem 10
UKIP 2
Green 1
Residents 1
Ind 3

Whats the story with Woodville ?

Blimey where do you want to start?

Married EIV, mother of the Princes, her clan brought discord and strife to England, and eventually retired into obscurity.

MarkSenior

Pulpstar said:

MarkSenior said:

As posted this morning there will also be 105 or 106 English council by elections on May 4th ( the status of the vacancy in South Derbyshire Woodville ward is uncertain )
Defenders will be

Con 59 or 60
Lab 29
LDem 10
UKIP 2
Green 1
Residents 1
Ind 3

Whats the story with Woodville ?

A Notice of Vacancy was published on March 14th but no Notice of Election has appeared on the website . The council does not appear to be able to deal with a telephone query as to the status of the vacancy .

MonikerDiCanio

williamglenn said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-39449459

Sturgeon signs section 30 request in relaxed style.

Slovenly, not relaxed. Why's the treble vodka on the black leather case ?

surbiton

Jonathan said:

Thirst

Just two days in and Brexit is already not going to plan. Shudders.

If Merkel means what she says that the divorce bill has to be agreed first which I think she cannot go against [ at least until September ] and then discuss other matters, has the train hit the buffers already ?

RobD

surbiton said:

Jonathan said:

Thirst

Just two days in and Brexit is already not going to plan. Shudders.

If Merkel means what she says that the divorce bill has to be agreed first which I think she cannot go against [ at least until September ] and then discuss other matters, has the train hit the buffers already ?

She didn't say it had to be agreed though...

Beverley_C

surbiton said:

Jonathan said:

Thirst

Just two days in and Brexit is already not going to plan. Shudders.

If Merkel means what she says that the divorce bill has to be agreed first which I think she cannot go against [ at least until September ] and then discuss other matters, has the train hit the buffers already ?

What buffers? The next station is WTO

Jonathan

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-39449459

Homage.

RobD

Jonathan said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-39449459

Homage.

If, as expected, the request is declined, Ms Sturgeon has said she will set out her government's next steps in April, when MSPs return to the Scottish Parliament after the Easter recess.

They clearly have the time, given how few bills they pass up there!

TOPPING

RobD said:

Jonathan said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-39449459

Homage.

If, as expected, the request is declined, Ms Sturgeon has said she will set out her government's next steps in April, when MSPs return to the Scottish Parliament after the Easter recess.

They clearly have the time, given how few bills they pass up there!

Can't see a lot of non-Brexit activity from Westminster over the next few years either.

RobD

TOPPING said:

RobD said:

Jonathan said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-39449459

Homage.

If, as expected, the request is declined, Ms Sturgeon has said she will set out her government's next steps in April, when MSPs return to the Scottish Parliament after the Easter recess.

They clearly have the time, given how few bills they pass up there!

Can't see a lot of non-Brexit activity from Westminster over the next few years either.

I was more commenting on their prior record, but that's a fair point!

OUT

MonikerDiCanio said:

williamglenn said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-39449459

Sturgeon signs section 30 request in relaxed style.

Slovenly, not relaxed. Why's the treble vodka on the black leather case ?

It's ka-roon.

AndyJS

Spreadsheet with the seats Labour are defending up to a 25% majority. I've chosen such a high figure because they were 3 points ahead in the projected national share the last time these seats were contested and now they're 15-20 points behind.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16CYIJsRJYlFUplcLiIVCkw0S6JPYLoXEXORSElPOvRI/edit#gid=0

MarqueeMark

isam said:

"David Cameron has reinvented himself as a Brexiteer - saying he never 'liked' the EU and is glad he called the referendum."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4364528/Cameron-never-liked-EU-glad-called-referendum.html

That picture of Cameron, Ashdown and Kinnock, campaigning on the phones for Remain - someone there for everyone to hate!

Yorkcity

isam said:

"David Cameron has reinvented himself as a Brexiteer - saying he never 'liked' the EU and is glad he called the referendum."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4364528/Cameron-never-liked-EU-glad-called-referendum.html

He will be telling us next Libya is a democratic state and successful .

tlg86

Thanks Harry, I can definitely see Surrey going NOC.

welshowl

surbiton said:

Jonathan said:

Thirst

Just two days in and Brexit is already not going to plan. Shudders.

If Merkel means what she says that the divorce bill has to be agreed first which I think she cannot go against [ at least until September ] and then discuss other matters, has the train hit the buffers already ?

Nah, there's talk of agreeing frameworks or outlines of principles of exit before quickly moving on to trade. A deal simply has to be viewed as the whole deal so we could say we'll agree to xyz in principle if we get what we want on trade etc. That can then be revisited in more detail depending on how that turns out and so on. If they expect us to sign up to every dot and dash on vellum before thinking at some point when they feel like it maybe, perhaps, to talk about trade at some vague point in the future- we walk. The two sides aren't that daft. This is all limbering up.

What does concern me is Juncker's ( and Barnier's?) thinking of being transparent and open during negotiations. Madness pure and simple. A perfect feeding frenzy for the press. Bismarck's dictum about laws and sausages should apply.

justin124

AndyJS said:

Spreadsheet with the seats Labour are defending up to a 25% majority. I've chosen such a high figure because they were 3 points ahead in the projected national share the last time these seats were contested and now they're 15-20 points behind.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16CYIJsRJYlFUplcLiIVCkw0S6JPYLoXEXORSElPOvRI/edit#gid=0

From the polls I am aware of Labour currentlt 13 - 18 points behind!

MonikerDiCanio

OUT said:

MonikerDiCanio said:

williamglenn said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-39449459

Sturgeon signs section 30 request in relaxed style.

Slovenly, not relaxed. Why's the treble vodka on the black leather case ?

It's ka-roon.

Sturgeon's on ka-roon ? Christ.

isam

MarqueeMark said:

isam said:

"David Cameron has reinvented himself as a Brexiteer - saying he never 'liked' the EU and is glad he called the referendum."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4364528/Cameron-never-liked-EU-glad-called-referendum.html

That picture of Cameron, Ashdown and Kinnock, campaigning on the phones for Remain - someone there for everyone to hate!

Ashdown on yesterday Daily Politics was a complete embarrassment

RobD

isam said:

MarqueeMark said:

isam said:

"David Cameron has reinvented himself as a Brexiteer - saying he never 'liked' the EU and is glad he called the referendum."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4364528/Cameron-never-liked-EU-glad-called-referendum.html

That picture of Cameron, Ashdown and Kinnock, campaigning on the phones for Remain - someone there for everyone to hate!

Ashdown on yesterday Daily Politics was a complete embarrassment

The best bit was his defence of the Euro

Alistair

Seems my gentle rebuff aimed at David Cameron has been moderated.

It was entirely level headed and even tempered (this may be a lie)

IanB2

Congratulations to the anonymous author of the header who has clearly done a lot of work on the potential results.

It would be good to have some sort of gain/losses overall summary?

I would be surprised if the LibDems beat Labour by 7% and 12 seats in Essex. That would be quite something. On the other hand I would expect the LibDems to beat the forecast for the Isle of Wight, at least in terms of votes.

RobD

@Alistair - step away from PB for a (literal) minute and you miss all the fun.

RobD

IanB2 said:

Congratulations to the anonymous author of the header who has clearly done a lot of work on the potential results.

It would be good to have some sort of gain/losses overall summary?

I would be surprised if the LibDems beat Labour by 7% and 12 seats in Essex. That would be quite something. On the other hand I would expect the LibDems to beat the forecast for the Isle of Wight, at least in terms of votes.

98% sure it's Harry Hayfield.

surbiton

welshowl said:

surbiton said:

Jonathan said:

Thirst

Just two days in and Brexit is already not going to plan. Shudders.

If Merkel means what she says that the divorce bill has to be agreed first which I think she cannot go against [ at least until September ] and then discuss other matters, has the train hit the buffers already ?

Nah, there's talk of agreeing frameworks or outlines of principles of exit before quickly moving on to trade. A deal simply has to be viewed as the whole deal so we could say we'll agree to xyz in principle if we get what we want on trade etc. That can then be revisited in more detail depending on how that turns out and so on. If they expect us to sign up to every dot and dash on vellum before thinking at some point when they feel like it maybe, perhaps, to talk about trade at some vague point in the future- we walk. The two sides aren't that daft. This is all limbering up.

What does concern me is Juncker's ( and Barnier's?) thinking of being transparent and open during negotiations. Madness pure and simple. A perfect feeding frenzy for the press. Bismarck's dictum about laws and sausages should apply.

Have you seen what Merkel said [ and Hollande ] ?

isam

RobD said:

isam said:

MarqueeMark said:

isam said:

"David Cameron has reinvented himself as a Brexiteer - saying he never 'liked' the EU and is glad he called the referendum."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4364528/Cameron-never-liked-EU-glad-called-referendum.html

That picture of Cameron, Ashdown and Kinnock, campaigning on the phones for Remain - someone there for everyone to hate!

Ashdown on yesterday Daily Politics was a complete embarrassment

The best bit was his defence of the Euro

A performance of Captain Frodo-esque contortions

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbEppPN9dzY

Theuniondivvie

RobD said:

welshowl said:

Beverley_C said:

williamglenn said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-39449459

Sturgeon signs section 30 request in relaxed style.

It is her Kellyanne MacConway moment!!

Like all normal living rooms it has a flag pole I note.

I wonder if she forgets she's Scottish unless she doesn't see a Saltire on a regular basis?

On that basis, ole Tessy must need constant reminding she's not (only) English.

RobD

surbiton said:

welshowl said:

surbiton said:

Jonathan said:

Thirst

Just two days in and Brexit is already not going to plan. Shudders.

If Merkel means what she says that the divorce bill has to be agreed first which I think she cannot go against [ at least until September ] and then discuss other matters, has the train hit the buffers already ?

Nah, there's talk of agreeing frameworks or outlines of principles of exit before quickly moving on to trade. A deal simply has to be viewed as the whole deal so we could say we'll agree to xyz in principle if we get what we want on trade etc. That can then be revisited in more detail depending on how that turns out and so on. If they expect us to sign up to every dot and dash on vellum before thinking at some point when they feel like it maybe, perhaps, to talk about trade at some vague point in the future- we walk. The two sides aren't that daft. This is all limbering up.

What does concern me is Juncker's ( and Barnier's?) thinking of being transparent and open during negotiations. Madness pure and simple. A perfect feeding frenzy for the press. Bismarck's dictum about laws and sausages should apply.

Have you seen what Merkel said [ and Hollande ] ?

Have you, since Merkel certainly didn't say it had to be agreed.

Casino_Royale

FPT - I would sell the shirt on my back and live in a cave before I sold out Gibraltar.

No deal.

williamglenn

RobD said:

surbiton said:

welshowl said:

surbiton said:

Jonathan said:

Thirst

Just two days in and Brexit is already not going to plan. Shudders.

If Merkel means what she says that the divorce bill has to be agreed first which I think she cannot go against [ at least until September ] and then discuss other matters, has the train hit the buffers already ?

Nah, there's talk of agreeing frameworks or outlines of principles of exit before quickly moving on to trade. A deal simply has to be viewed as the whole deal so we could say we'll agree to xyz in principle if we get what we want on trade etc. That can then be revisited in more detail depending on how that turns out and so on. If they expect us to sign up to every dot and dash on vellum before thinking at some point when they feel like it maybe, perhaps, to talk about trade at some vague point in the future- we walk. The two sides aren't that daft. This is all limbering up.

What does concern me is Juncker's ( and Barnier's?) thinking of being transparent and open during negotiations. Madness pure and simple. A perfect feeding frenzy for the press. Bismarck's dictum about laws and sausages should apply.

Have you seen what Merkel said [ and Hollande ] ?

Have you, since Merkel certainly didn't say it had to be agreed.

The fact that people are arguing about this shows how skilful Merkel is.

RobD

williamglenn said:

RobD said:

surbiton said:

welshowl said:

surbiton said:

Jonathan said:

Thirst

Just two days in and Brexit is already not going to plan. Shudders.

If Merkel means what she says that the divorce bill has to be agreed first which I think she cannot go against [ at least until September ] and then discuss other matters, has the train hit the buffers already ?

Nah, there's talk of agreeing frameworks or outlines of principles of exit before quickly moving on to trade. A deal simply has to be viewed as the whole deal so we could say we'll agree to xyz in principle if we get what we want on trade etc. That can then be revisited in more detail depending on how that turns out and so on. If they expect us to sign up to every dot and dash on vellum before thinking at some point when they feel like it maybe, perhaps, to talk about trade at some vague point in the future- we walk. The two sides aren't that daft. This is all limbering up.

What does concern me is Juncker's ( and Barnier's?) thinking of being transparent and open during negotiations. Madness pure and simple. A perfect feeding frenzy for the press. Bismarck's dictum about laws and sausages should apply.

Have you seen what Merkel said [ and Hollande ] ?

Have you, since Merkel certainly didn't say it had to be agreed.

The fact that people are arguing about this shows how skilful Merkel is.

Very careful with her words, yeah.

Hertsmere_Pubgoer

MarqueeMark said:

isam said:

"David Cameron has reinvented himself as a Brexiteer - saying he never 'liked' the EU and is glad he called the referendum."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4364528/Cameron-never-liked-EU-glad-called-referendum.html

That picture of Cameron, Ashdown and Kinnock, campaigning on the phones for Remain - someone there for everyone to hate!

Wonder what the voice at the other end was saying? "The time sponsored by Accurist" is my guess

isam

"In his speech, Orban warned about the western military interventions that caused instability in the Middle East, and their effects on migration.

“If you kick an anthill, we should not be surprised if the ants overwhelm us,” Orban told EPP delegations. “If millions of migrants start marching on the Balkans again, it will be impossible to maintain stability.”

Merkel, sitting a few feet away on the stage, hardly looked up during the speech, focusing instead on scribbling notes. Although she’s faced down criticism from within her Christian Democratic-led faction at home, as well as attacks from the populist, right-wing Alternative for Germany, the chancellor has rarely encountered personally the charges Orban made."

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-03-30/merkel-orban-clash-on-refugees-laying-bare-european-disunity

MarkSenior

IanB2 said:

Congratulations to the anonymous author of the header who has clearly done a lot of work on the potential results.

It would be good to have some sort of gain/losses overall summary?

I would be surprised if the LibDems beat Labour by 7% and 12 seats in Essex. That would be quite something. On the other hand I would expect the LibDems to beat the forecast for the Isle of Wight, at least in terms of votes.

I have alternative forecasts from Harry on the vote2012 website though they may be changed slightly when the nominations are released next week .

AlastairMeeks

Thanks for the round-up; most informative.

Pulpstar

How is vote % calculated in 2 member wards btw ? *cough cough*

DavidL

For me, in England, these elections are all about the Lib Dems. Either they will produce results like many of their bye election successes in the last few months or they will produce results similar to their national polling. If they produce the former then Labour will be looking anxiously over their shoulder and even May will be wondering if that majority in 2020 is really nailed on after all. If they produce results like the latter then the Lib Dems will effectively be finished as a national party and Tim Farron may find himself on a shoogly peg.

In Scotland, it is all very different. The question there will be whether the SNP can win a majority of Councillors to support the Indyref2 application or not. Basically this boils down to whether their gains from SLAB are more than enough to offset any losses to the Conservatives. The Union needs SLAB to retain a pulse. Its not clear if they will or not.

welshowl

RobD said:

surbiton said:

welshowl said:

surbiton said:

Jonathan said:

Thirst

Just two days in and Brexit is already not going to plan. Shudders.

If Merkel means what she says that the divorce bill has to be agreed first which I think she cannot go against [ at least until September ] and then discuss other matters, has the train hit the buffers already ?

Nah, there's talk of agreeing frameworks or outlines of principles of exit before quickly moving on to trade. A deal simply has to be viewed as the whole deal so we could say we'll agree to xyz in principle if we get what we want on trade etc. That can then be revisited in more detail depending on how that turns out and so on. If they expect us to sign up to every dot and dash on vellum before thinking at some point when they feel like it maybe, perhaps, to talk about trade at some vague point in the future- we walk. The two sides aren't that daft. This is all limbering up.

What does concern me is Juncker's ( and Barnier's?) thinking of being transparent and open during negotiations. Madness pure and simple. A perfect feeding frenzy for the press. Bismarck's dictum about laws and sausages should apply.

Have you seen what Merkel said [ and Hollande ] ?

Have you, since Merkel certainly didn't say it had to be agreed.

Quite.

Richard_Tyndall

williamglenn said:

RobD said:

surbiton said:

welshowl said:

surbiton said:

Jonathan said:

Thirst

Just two days in and Brexit is already not going to plan. Shudders.

If Merkel means what she says that the divorce bill has to be agreed first which I think she cannot go against [ at least until September ] and then discuss other matters, has the train hit the buffers already ?

Nah, there's talk of agreeing frameworks or outlines of principles of exit before quickly moving on to trade. A deal simply has to be viewed as the whole deal so we could say we'll agree to xyz in principle if we get what we want on trade etc. That can then be revisited in more detail depending on how that turns out and so on. If they expect us to sign up to every dot and dash on vellum before thinking at some point when they feel like it maybe, perhaps, to talk about trade at some vague point in the future- we walk. The two sides aren't that daft. This is all limbering up.

What does concern me is Juncker's ( and Barnier's?) thinking of being transparent and open during negotiations. Madness pure and simple. A perfect feeding frenzy for the press. Bismarck's dictum about laws and sausages should apply.

Have you seen what Merkel said [ and Hollande ] ?

Have you, since Merkel certainly didn't say it had to be agreed.

The fact that people are arguing about this shows how skilful Merkel is.

Not really. The fact you are arguing about it shows how gullible you are. Things will resolve.

The status of EU/UK nationals - which should not have been on the table in the first place for which both sides are at fault - will be resolved first and very quickly.

After that there will be the normal back and forth of negotiations with both sides trying to appear to play tough.

As far as money is concerned the UK will agree to pay their contribution to the end of the current budget period which is 2020. That means we will pay 1 year's net contribution after we leave which will be around £8 billion to £10 billion. The EU will sulk but that will fulfil our international obligations.

Casino_Royale

Thanks Harry. Great roundup.

justin124

A good number of the Labour seats listed show them as vulnerable to UKIP. I would be surprised to see UKIP gain many - if any - of those since UKIP has fallen back even more sharply since May 2014. Indeed the few Labour gains we might see on May 4th are likely to be at the expense of UKIP.

Hertsmere_Pubgoer

Casino_Royale said:

Thanks Harry. Great roundup.

Seconded.
Cheers Harry. (To channel my inner Wolfy Smith)

williamglenn

Richard_Tyndall said:

williamglenn said:

RobD said:

surbiton said:

welshowl said:

surbiton said:

Jonathan said:

Thirst

Just two days in and Brexit is already not going to plan. Shudders.

If Merkel means what she says that the divorce bill has to be agreed first which I think she cannot go against [ at least until September ] and then discuss other matters, has the train hit the buffers already ?

Nah, there's talk of agreeing frameworks or outlines of principles of exit before quickly moving on to trade. A deal simply has to be viewed as the whole deal so we could say we'll agree to xyz in principle if we get what we want on trade etc. That can then be revisited in more detail depending on how that turns out and so on. If they expect us to sign up to every dot and dash on vellum before thinking at some point when they feel like it maybe, perhaps, to talk about trade at some vague point in the future- we walk. The two sides aren't that daft. This is all limbering up.

What does concern me is Juncker's ( and Barnier's?) thinking of being transparent and open during negotiations. Madness pure and simple. A perfect feeding frenzy for the press. Bismarck's dictum about laws and sausages should apply.

Have you seen what Merkel said [ and Hollande ] ?

Have you, since Merkel certainly didn't say it had to be agreed.

The fact that people are arguing about this shows how skilful Merkel is.

Not really. The fact you are arguing about it shows how gullible you are. Things will resolve.

The status of EU/UK nationals - which should not have been on the table in the first place for which both sides are at fault - will be resolved first and very quickly.

Wishful thinking. The linkage between this question and the status of Northern Ireland and Scotland will be one of the first things to blindside the government.

RobD

williamglenn said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

williamglenn said:

RobD said:

surbiton said:

welshowl said:

surbiton said:

Jonathan said:

Thirst

Just two days in and Brexit is already not going to plan. Shudders.

If Merkel means what she says that the divorce bill has to be agreed first which I think she cannot go against [ at least until September ] and then discuss other matters, has the train hit the buffers already ?

Nah, there's talk of agreeing frameworks or outlines of principles of exit before quickly moving on to trade. A deal simply has to be viewed as the whole deal so we could say we'll agree to xyz in principle if we get what we want on trade etc. That can then be revisited in more detail depending on how that turns out and so on. If they expect us to sign up to every dot and dash on vellum before thinking at some point when they feel like it maybe, perhaps, to talk about trade at some vague point in the future- we walk. The two sides aren't that daft. This is all limbering up.

What does concern me is Juncker's ( and Barnier's?) thinking of being transparent and open during negotiations. Madness pure and simple. A perfect feeding frenzy for the press. Bismarck's dictum about laws and sausages should apply.

Have you seen what Merkel said [ and Hollande ] ?

Have you, since Merkel certainly didn't say it had to be agreed.

The fact that people are arguing about this shows how skilful Merkel is.

Not really. The fact you are arguing about it shows how gullible you are. Things will resolve.

The status of EU/UK nationals - which should not have been on the table in the first place for which both sides are at fault - will be resolved first and very quickly.

Wishful thinking. The linkage between this question and the status of Northern Ireland and Scotland will be one of the first things to blindside the government.

That sounds like your wishful thinking....

Sean_F

williamglenn said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

williamglenn said:

RobD said:

surbiton said:

welshowl said:

surbiton said:

Jonathan said:

Thirst

Just two days in and Brexit is already not going to plan. Shudders.

If Merkel means what she says that the divorce bill has to be agreed first which I think she cannot go against [ at least until September ] and then discuss other matters, has the train hit the buffers already ?

Nah, there's talk of agreeing frameworks or outlines of principles of exit before quickly moving on to trade. A deal simply has to be viewed as the whole deal so we could say we'll agree to xyz in principle if we get what we want on trade etc. That can then be revisited in more detail depending on how that turns out and so on. If they expect us to sign up to every dot and dash on vellum before thinking at some point when they feel like it maybe, perhaps, to talk about trade at some vague point in the future- we walk. The two sides aren't that daft. This is all limbering up.

What does concern me is Juncker's ( and Barnier's?) thinking of being transparent and open during negotiations. Madness pure and simple. A perfect feeding frenzy for the press. Bismarck's dictum about laws and sausages should apply.

Have you seen what Merkel said [ and Hollande ] ?

Have you, since Merkel certainly didn't say it had to be agreed.

The fact that people are arguing about this shows how skilful Merkel is.

Not really. The fact you are arguing about it shows how gullible you are. Things will resolve.

The status of EU/UK nationals - which should not have been on the table in the first place for which both sides are at fault - will be resolved first and very quickly.

Wishful thinking. The linkage between this question and the status of Northern Ireland and Scotland will be one of the first things to blindside the government.

The wishful thinking lies in your desire to see terrible retribution visited on this country.

MonikerDiCanio

Theuniondivvie said:

RobD said:

welshowl said:

Beverley_C said:

williamglenn said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-39449459

Sturgeon signs section 30 request in relaxed style.

It is her Kellyanne MacConway moment!!

Like all normal living rooms it has a flag pole I note.

I wonder if she forgets she's Scottish unless she doesn't see a Saltire on a regular basis?

On that basis, ole Tessy must need constant reminding she's not (only) English.

Sturgeon : After a hard day of doing nothing, there's nothing I like more than kicking off my shoes, pouring myself a glass of ether and hoisting a massive Saltire in my drawing-room.

FF43

williamglenn said:

The fact that people are arguing about this shows how skilful Merkel is.

My guess is that if we don't agree to do the exit the EU way, they will stall. That's what they usually do, recently with Greece on debt rescheduling and with Switzerland on immigration. Sort of Wellington to Napoleon, ironically. We'll say, can we talk about whether we can fly our planes, raise finance and trade in two years, one year and then six months time? And they will say, sure, once we have got the exit stuff out the way.

It's better not to get into that situation in the first place.

RobC

It is possible the Tories will not do quite as well as expected in some areas of Kent such as Maidstone despite May and Brexit being apparently popular. The reason for that is anger at the huge spurt of new planning (and its adverse knock-on effects) as pushed through by Greg Clark while communities secretary overriding local opposition. Lib Dems may be the beneficiaries of this. I'd be a little cautious about the extent Leave/Remain votes in last year's ref are a pointer to local results. Local factors may be more in play than usual (not just planning which isn't a county council responsibility) but council tax, potholes/crap roads, elderly services etc.

Casino_Royale

williamglenn said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

williamglenn said:

RobD said:

surbiton said:

welshowl said:

surbiton said:

Jonathan said:

Thirst

Just two days in and Brexit is already not going to plan. Shudders.

If Merkel means what she says that the divorce bill has to be agreed first which I think she cannot go against [ at least until September ] and then discuss other matters, has the train hit the buffers already ?

Nah, there's talk of agreeing frameworks or outlines of principles of exit before quickly moving on to trade. A deal simply has to be viewed as the whole deal so we could say we'll agree to xyz in principle if we get what we want on trade etc. That can then be revisited in more detail depending on how that turns out and so on. If they expect us to sign up to every dot and dash on vellum before thinking at some point when they feel like it maybe, perhaps, to talk about trade at some vague point in the future- we walk. The two sides aren't that daft. This is all limbering up.

What does concern me is Juncker's ( and Barnier's?) thinking of being transparent and open during negotiations. Madness pure and simple. A perfect feeding frenzy for the press. Bismarck's dictum about laws and sausages should apply.

Have you seen what Merkel said [ and Hollande ] ?

Have you, since Merkel certainly didn't say it had to be agreed.

The fact that people are arguing about this shows how skilful Merkel is.

Not really. The fact you are arguing about it shows how gullible you are. Things will resolve.

The status of EU/UK nationals - which should not have been on the table in the first place for which both sides are at fault - will be resolved first and very quickly.

Wishful thinking. The linkage between this question and the status of Northern Ireland and Scotland will be one of the first things to blindside the government.

Genuine question: do you, and will you, feel any loyalty to this country when it Leaves the EU?

RobD

Casino_Royale said:

williamglenn said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

williamglenn said:

RobD said:

surbiton said:

welshowl said:

surbiton said:

Jonathan said:

Thirst

Just two days in and Brexit is already not going to plan. Shudders.

If Merkel means what she says that the divorce bill has to be agreed first which I think she cannot go against [ at least until September ] and then discuss other matters, has the train hit the buffers already ?

Nah, there's talk of agreeing frameworks or outlines of principles of exit before quickly moving on to trade. A deal simply has to be viewed as the whole deal so we could say we'll agree to xyz in principle if we get what we want on trade etc. That can then be revisited in more detail depending on how that turns out and so on. If they expect us to sign up to every dot and dash on vellum before thinking at some point when they feel like it maybe, perhaps, to talk about trade at some vague point in the future- we walk. The two sides aren't that daft. This is all limbering up.

What does concern me is Juncker's ( and Barnier's?) thinking of being transparent and open during negotiations. Madness pure and simple. A perfect feeding frenzy for the press. Bismarck's dictum about laws and sausages should apply.

Have you seen what Merkel said [ and Hollande ] ?

Have you, since Merkel certainly didn't say it had to be agreed.

The fact that people are arguing about this shows how skilful Merkel is.

Not really. The fact you are arguing about it shows how gullible you are. Things will resolve.

The status of EU/UK nationals - which should not have been on the table in the first place for which both sides are at fault - will be resolved first and very quickly.

Wishful thinking. The linkage between this question and the status of Northern Ireland and Scotland will be one of the first things to blindside the government.

Genuine question: do you, and will you, feel any loyalty to this country when it Leaves the EU?

williamglenn doesn't recognise the UK.

williamglenn

Casino_Royale said:

williamglenn said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

williamglenn said:

RobD said:

surbiton said:

welshowl said:

surbiton said:

Jonathan said:

Thirst

Just two days in and Brexit is already not going to plan. Shudders.

If Merkel means what she says that the divorce bill has to be agreed first which I think she cannot go against [ at least until September ] and then discuss other matters, has the train hit the buffers already ?

Nah, there's talk of agreeing frameworks or outlines of principles of exit before quickly moving on to trade. A deal simply has to be viewed as the whole deal so we could say we'll agree to xyz in principle if we get what we want on trade etc. That can then be revisited in more detail depending on how that turns out and so on. If they expect us to sign up to every dot and dash on vellum before thinking at some point when they feel like it maybe, perhaps, to talk about trade at some vague point in the future- we walk. The two sides aren't that daft. This is all limbering up.

What does concern me is Juncker's ( and Barnier's?) thinking of being transparent and open during negotiations. Madness pure and simple. A perfect feeding frenzy for the press. Bismarck's dictum about laws and sausages should apply.

Have you seen what Merkel said [ and Hollande ] ?

Have you, since Merkel certainly didn't say it had to be agreed.

The fact that people are arguing about this shows how skilful Merkel is.

Not really. The fact you are arguing about it shows how gullible you are. Things will resolve.

The status of EU/UK nationals - which should not have been on the table in the first place for which both sides are at fault - will be resolved first and very quickly.

Wishful thinking. The linkage between this question and the status of Northern Ireland and Scotland will be one of the first things to blindside the government.

Genuine question: do you, and will you, feel any loyalty to this country when it Leaves the EU?

To the country and the people, yes absolutely, but I think the UK as a state has run its course. The 'precious' union to me is now the EU and I would hope that the nations of the UK individually chose to take up their rightful place in it.

calum

Will PB.com be adopting ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39444432

MTimT

Interesting that some US Senators looking into Russian fiddling with the US Presidential election believe that Russia influenced Brexit too. No details given in the report, nor any concept of how such fiddling would have affected the outcome, so I don't give it much credence at this point:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39442901

Casino_Royale

williamglenn said:

Casino_Royale said:

williamglenn said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

williamglenn said:

RobD said:

surbiton said:

welshowl said:

surbiton said:

Jonathan said:

Thirst

Just two days in and Brexit is already not going to plan. Shudders.

If Merkel means what she says that the divorce bill has to be agreed first which I think she cannot go against [ at least until September ] and then discuss other matters, has the train hit the buffers already ?

Nah, there's talk of agreeing frameworks or outlines of principles of exit before quickly moving on to trade. A deal simply has to be viewed as the whole deal so we could say we'll agree to xyz in principle if we get what we want on trade etc. That can then be revisited in more detail depending on how that turns out and so on. If they expect us to sign up to every dot and dash on vellum before thinking at some point when they feel like it maybe, perhaps, to talk about trade at some vague point in the future- we walk. The two sides aren't that daft. This is all limbering up.

What does concern me is Juncker's ( and Barnier's?) thinking of being transparent and open during negotiations. Madness pure and simple. A perfect feeding frenzy for the press. Bismarck's dictum about laws and sausages should apply.

Have you seen what Merkel said [ and Hollande ] ?

Have you, since Merkel certainly didn't say it had to be agreed.

The fact that people are arguing about this shows how skilful Merkel is.

Not really. The fact you are arguing about it shows how gullible you are. Things will resolve.

The status of EU/UK nationals - which should not have been on the table in the first place for which both sides are at fault - will be resolved first and very quickly.

Wishful thinking. The linkage between this question and the status of Northern Ireland and Scotland will be one of the first things to blindside the government.

Genuine question: do you, and will you, feel any loyalty to this country when it Leaves the EU?

To the country and the people, yes absolutely, but I think the UK as a state has run its course. The 'precious' union to me is now the EU and I would hope that the nations of the UK individually chose to take up their rightful place in it.

Doesn't sound like a yes.

SandyRentool

Labour losing control of County of County Durham County Council* would be a totemic result. If we can't hold on there then what chance have we got anywhere?

A result like that would point towards huge losses next year in the Metropolitan councils - and next year Leeds is all-up rather than just one third.

*Not the official name.

RobD

calum said:

Will PB.com be adopting ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39444432

I use those as great indicators for people I should ignore.

williamglenn

MTimT said:

Interesting that some US Senators looking into Russian fiddling with the US Presidential election believe that Russia influenced Brexit too. No details given in the report, nor any concept of how such fiddling would have affected the outcome, so I don't give it much credence at this point:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39442901

It seems to have all sprung from Ben Bradshaw's idle speculation.

Personally I don't think there's anything in it except to the extent that Russia has been very active in pumping out 'we're going to hell in a handcart' style propaganda about everything from the financial crisis to refugees.

AlastairMeeks

Casino_Royale said:

williamglenn said:

Casino_Royale said:

williamglenn said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

williamglenn said:

RobD said:

surbiton said:

welshowl said:

Nah, there's talk of agreeing frameworks or outlines of principles of exit before quickly moving on to trade. A deal simply has to be viewed as the whole deal so we could say we'll agree to xyz in principle if we get what we want on trade etc. That can then be revisited in more detail depending on how that turns out and so on. If they expect us to sign up to every dot and dash on vellum before thinking at some point when they feel like it maybe, perhaps, to talk about trade at some vague point in the future- we walk. The two sides aren't that daft. This is all limbering up.

What does concern me is Juncker's ( and Barnier's?) thinking of being transparent and open during negotiations. Madness pure and simple. A perfect feeding frenzy for the press. Bismarck's dictum about laws and sausages should apply.

Have you seen what Merkel said [ and Hollande ] ?

Have you, since Merkel certainly didn't say it had to be agreed.

The fact that people are arguing about this shows how skilful Merkel is.

Not really. The fact you are arguing about it shows how gullible you are. Things will resolve.

The status of EU/UK nationals - which should not have been on the table in the first place for which both sides are at fault - will be resolved first and very quickly.

Wishful thinking. The linkage between this question and the status of Northern Ireland and Scotland will be one of the first things to blindside the government.

Genuine question: do you, and will you, feel any loyalty to this country when it Leaves the EU?

To the country and the people, yes absolutely, but I think the UK as a state has run its course. The 'precious' union to me is now the EU and I would hope that the nations of the UK individually chose to take up their rightful place in it.

Doesn't sound like a yes.

If you're applying loyalty tests on A Day+1, that's unhealthy. Loyalty has to be earned not demanded. If Leavers are alienating British citizens, instead of branding those dissidents unfit to breathe the air of the country, they would do well to ask why they themselves are so repellent.

Jonathan

Brexitski

Sunil_Prasannan

I'm NOT particularly looking forward to the County Council elections!

(I'll get me coat...)

Alistair

DavidL said:

In Scotland, it is all very different. The question there will be whether the SNP can win a majority of Councillors to support the Indyref2 application or not. Basically this boils down to whether their gains from SLAB are more than enough to offset any losses to the Conservatives. The Union needs SLAB to retain a pulse. Its not clear if they will or not.

Surely it is not a question of gains from SLab, losses to Cons.

For me it is about Unionist transfer votes. There have been a fair few council by elections where the SNP have won the first round only to lose in the 7th as the Unionist Transfers pile up.

Sunil_Prasannan

MTimT said:

Interesting that some US Senators looking into Russian fiddling with the US Presidential election believe that Russia influenced Brexit too. No details given in the report, nor any concept of how such fiddling would have affected the outcome, so I don't give it much credence at this point:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39442901

We all voted LEAVE because we were hypnotized by the Kremlin's evil Mind-Control Ray!!!

augustus_carp

RobC said:

It is possible the Tories will not do quite as well as expected in some areas of Kent such as Maidstone despite May and Brexit being apparently popular. The reason for that is anger at the huge spurt of new planning (and its adverse knock-on effects) as pushed through by Greg Clark while communities secretary overriding local opposition. Lib Dems may be the beneficiaries of this. I'd be a little cautious about the extent Leave/Remain votes in last year's ref are a pointer to local results. Local factors may be more in play than usual (not just planning which isn't a county council responsibility) but council tax, potholes/crap roads, elderly services etc.

And education, don't forget education. OK, more and more education services are being hived off to Academies, multi-Academy Trusts an the like, but the Local Education authorities (usually county councils) still have the statutory responsibility for providing an appropriate number of school places. The cutbacks in funding (disguised via a change in calculating the funding formula) is going to have some very odd effects in some places. The Unions and other educational shroud wavers will be out in force, but that's only because there really is a problem looming....

Casino_Royale

AlastairMeeks said:

Casino_Royale said:

williamglenn said:

Casino_Royale said:

williamglenn said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

williamglenn said:

RobD said:

surbiton said:

welshowl said:

Nah, there's talk of agreeing frameworks or outlines of principles of exit before quickly moving on to trade. A deal simply has to be viewed as the whole deal so we could say we'll agree to xyz in principle if we get what we want on trade etc. That can then be revisited in more detail depending on how that turns out and so on. If they expect us to sign up to every dot and dash on vellum before thinking at some point when they feel like it maybe, perhaps, to talk about trade at some vague point in the future- we walk. The two sides aren't that daft. This is all limbering up.

What does concern me is Juncker's ( and Barnier's?) thinking of being transparent and open during negotiations. Madness pure and simple. A perfect feeding frenzy for the press. Bismarck's dictum about laws and sausages should apply.

Have you seen what Merkel said [ and Hollande ] ?

Have you, since Merkel certainly didn't say it had to be agreed.

The fact that people are arguing about this shows how skilful Merkel is.

Not really. The fact you are arguing about it shows how gullible you are. Things will resolve.

The status of EU/UK nationals - which should not have been on the table in the first place for which both sides are at fault - will be resolved first and very quickly.

Wishful thinking. The linkage between this question and the status of Northern Ireland and Scotland will be one of the first things to blindside the government.

Genuine question: do you, and will you, feel any loyalty to this country when it Leaves the EU?

To the country and the people, yes absolutely, but I think the UK as a state has run its course. The 'precious' union to me is now the EU and I would hope that the nations of the UK individually chose to take up their rightful place in it.

Doesn't sound like a yes.

If you're applying loyalty tests on A Day+1, that's unhealthy. Loyalty has to be earned not demanded. If Leavers are alienating British citizens, instead of branding those dissidents unfit to breathe the air of the country, they would do well to ask why they themselves are so repellent.

It's a conversation between me and william, thank you.

I've learnt that conversation with you on this subject is entirely non productive. You are the Peter Hitchens of Remain.

No offence.

SandyRentool

Sunil_Prasannan said:

MTimT said:

Interesting that some US Senators looking into Russian fiddling with the US Presidential election believe that Russia influenced Brexit too. No details given in the report, nor any concept of how such fiddling would have affected the outcome, so I don't give it much credence at this point:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39442901

We all voted LEAVE because we were hypnotized by the Kremlin's evil Mind-Control Ray!!!

I always thought it was the propaganda from The Sunil on Sunday that swung it. Be-Leave in Britain, and all that.

welshowl

Sunil_Prasannan said:

MTimT said:

Interesting that some US Senators looking into Russian fiddling with the US Presidential election believe that Russia influenced Brexit too. No details given in the report, nor any concept of how such fiddling would have affected the outcome, so I don't give it much credence at this point:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39442901

We all voted LEAVE because we were hypnotized by the Kremlin's evil Mind-Control Ray!!!

And 17.4M bits of paper with x's on them were hacked by Fancy Bears.

freetochoose

AlastairMeeks said:

Casino_Royale said:

williamglenn said:

Casino_Royale said:

williamglenn said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

williamglenn said:

RobD said:

surbiton said:

welshowl said:

Nah, there's talk of agreeing frameworks or outlines of principles of exit before quickly moving on to trade. A deal simply has to be viewed as the whole deal so we could say we'll agree to xyz in principle if we get what we want on trade etc. That can then be revisited in more detail depending on how that turns out and so on. If they expect us to sign up to every dot and dash on vellum before thinking at some point when they feel like it maybe, perhaps, to talk about trade at some vague point in the future- we walk. The two sides aren't that daft. This is all limbering up.

What does concern me is Juncker's ( and Barnier's?) thinking of being transparent and open during negotiations. Madness pure and simple. A perfect feeding frenzy for the press. Bismarck's dictum about laws and sausages should apply.

Have you seen what Merkel said [ and Hollande ] ?

Have you, since Merkel certainly didn't say it had to be agreed.

The fact that people are arguing about this shows how skilful Merkel is.

Not really. The fact you are arguing about it shows how gullible you are. Things will resolve.

The status of EU/UK nationals - which should not have been on the table in the first place for which both sides are at fault - will be resolved first and very quickly.

Wishful thinking. The linkage between this question and the status of Northern Ireland and Scotland will be one of the first things to blindside the government.

Genuine question: do you, and will you, feel any loyalty to this country when it Leaves the EU?

To the country and the people, yes absolutely, but I think the UK as a state has run its course. The 'precious' union to me is now the EU and I would hope that the nations of the UK individually chose to take up their rightful place in it.

Doesn't sound like a yes.

If you're applying loyalty tests on A Day+1, that's unhealthy. Loyalty has to be earned not demanded. If Leavers are alienating British citizens, instead of branding those dissidents unfit to breathe the air of the country, they would do well to ask why they themselves are so repellent.

You're a very unhappy person, try to relax a little

MTimT

Sunil_Prasannan said:

MTimT said:

Interesting that some US Senators looking into Russian fiddling with the US Presidential election believe that Russia influenced Brexit too. No details given in the report, nor any concept of how such fiddling would have affected the outcome, so I don't give it much credence at this point:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39442901

We all voted LEAVE because we were hypnotized by the Kremlin's evil Mind-Control Ray!!!

Foolish Russians! They should have added in a subconscious command that we not be aware of being hypnotized.

Sunil_Prasannan

SandyRentool said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

MTimT said:

Interesting that some US Senators looking into Russian fiddling with the US Presidential election believe that Russia influenced Brexit too. No details given in the report, nor any concept of how such fiddling would have affected the outcome, so I don't give it much credence at this point:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39442901

We all voted LEAVE because we were hypnotized by the Kremlin's evil Mind-Control Ray!!!

I always thought it was the propaganda from The Sunil on Sunday that swung it. Be-Leave in Britain, and all that.

Unconfirmed reports say that The Sunil on Sunday is owned by Russian multi-billionaire and oligarch Dennis Sunilovski.

However, Lord Sunil, Mystic Smeg and Mark Commode beg to differ!

AlastairMeeks

Casino_Royale said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Casino_Royale said:

williamglenn said:

Casino_Royale said:

williamglenn said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

williamglenn said:

RobD said:

Have you, since Merkel certainly didn't say it had to be agreed.

The fact that people are arguing about this shows how skilful Merkel is.

Not really. The fact you are arguing about it shows how gullible you are. Things will resolve.

The status of EU/UK nationals - which should not have been on the table in the first place for which both sides are at fault - will be resolved first and very quickly.

Wishful thinking. The linkage between this question and the status of Northern Ireland and Scotland will be one of the first things to blindside the government.

Genuine question: do you, and will you, feel any loyalty to this country when it Leaves the EU?

To the country and the people, yes absolutely, but I think the UK as a state has run its course. The 'precious' union to me is now the EU and I would hope that the nations of the UK individually chose to take up their rightful place in it.

Doesn't sound like a yes.

If you're applying loyalty tests on A Day+1, that's unhealthy. Loyalty has to be earned not demanded. If Leavers are alienating British citizens, instead of branding those dissidents unfit to breathe the air of the country, they would do well to ask why they themselves are so repellent.

It's a conversation between me and william, thank you.

I've learnt that conversation with you on this subject is entirely non productive. You are the Peter Hitchens of Remain.

No offence.

You would do well to reflect on what I wrote though. If British citizenship is to be reserved only for those who wear Union Jack socks and who are looking forward to the abolition of decimalisation, the country is going to go to the dogs fast.

No offence.

RobD

Sunil_Prasannan said:

SandyRentool said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

MTimT said:

Interesting that some US Senators looking into Russian fiddling with the US Presidential election believe that Russia influenced Brexit too. No details given in the report, nor any concept of how such fiddling would have affected the outcome, so I don't give it much credence at this point:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39442901

We all voted LEAVE because we were hypnotized by the Kremlin's evil Mind-Control Ray!!!

I always thought it was the propaganda from The Sunil on Sunday that swung it. Be-Leave in Britain, and all that.

Unconfirmed reports say that The Sunil on Sunday is owned by Russian multi-billionaire and oligarch Dennis Sunilovski.

However, Lord Sunil, Mystic Smeg and Mark Commode beg to differ!

If those reports are true, Sunilovski will surely be awarded the Order of Lenin for his work...

Casino_Royale

AlastairMeeks said:

Casino_Royale said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Casino_Royale said:

williamglenn said:

Casino_Royale said:

williamglenn said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

williamglenn said:

RobD said:

Have you, since Merkel certainly didn't say it had to be agreed.

The fact that people are arguing about this shows how skilful Merkel is.

Not really. The fact you are arguing about it shows how gullible you are. Things will resolve.

The status of EU/UK nationals - which should not have been on the table in the first place for which both sides are at fault - will be resolved first and very quickly.

Wishful thinking. The linkage between this question and the status of Northern Ireland and Scotland will be one of the first things to blindside the government.

Genuine question: do you, and will you, feel any loyalty to this country when it Leaves the EU?

To the country and the people, yes absolutely, but I think the UK as a state has run its course. The 'precious' union to me is now the EU and I would hope that the nations of the UK individually chose to take up their rightful place in it.

Doesn't sound like a yes.

If you're applying loyalty tests on A Day+1, that's unhealthy. Loyalty has to be earned not demanded. If Leavers are alienating British citizens, instead of branding those dissidents unfit to breathe the air of the country, they would do well to ask why they themselves are so repellent.

It's a conversation between me and william, thank you.

I've learnt that conversation with you on this subject is entirely non productive. You are the Peter Hitchens of Remain.

No offence.

You would do well to reflect on what I wrote though. If British citizenship is to be reserved only for those who wear Union Jack socks and who are looking forward to the abolition of decimalisation, the country is going to go to the dogs fast.

No offence.

We'd need the Greyhound Stadiums back for that first.

FrancisUrquhart

I think somebody posted yesterday that Gina Miller sounded in much more conciliatory tone and she had moved on....moved on to a new legal challenge by the looks of it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4365322/Remoaners-threaten-campaign-halt-Parliament.html

RobD

FrancisUrquhart said:

I think somebody posted yesterday that Gina Miller sounded in much more conciliatory tone and she had moved on....moved on to a new legal challenge by the looks of it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4365322/Remoaners-threaten-campaign-halt-Parliament.html

I knew it couldn't be true!

kle4

Wiltshire was only just Leave, but the prediction seems pretty solid (although the Green prediction would come out of nowhere) - the LDs actually increased their numbers last time despite a massive drop in overall votes (in part due to not standing in several places), but there are a few seats they lost to Indy's last time they would expect to get back as well as a couple lost in by-elections they might get back, and one of the 4 Lab seats has a majority of 1. Only 1 UKIP was elected last time out of 98 despite a good night for UKIP in other places, so a decent guess would it would not hold that.

Interesting from the prediction the LD vote must be much more concentrated in Cornwall!

TheScreamingEagles

Ta Harry.

Alanbrooke

AlastairMeeks said:

Casino_Royale said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Casino_Royale said:

williamglenn said:

Casino_Royale said:

williamglenn said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

williamglenn said:

RobD said:

Have you, since Merkel certainly didn't say it had to be agreed.

The fact that people are arguing about this shows how skilful Merkel is.

Not really. The fact you are arguing about it shows how gullible you are. Things will resolve.

The status of EU/UK nationals - which should not have been on the table in the first place for which both sides are at fault - will be resolved first and very quickly.

Wishful thinking. The linkage between this question and the status of Northern Ireland and Scotland will be one of the first things to blindside the government.

Genuine question: do you, and will you, feel any loyalty to this country when it Leaves the EU?

To the country and the people, yes absolutely, but I think the UK as a state has run its course. The 'precious' union to me is now the EU and I would hope that the nations of the UK individually chose to take up their rightful place in it.

Doesn't sound like a yes.

If you're applying loyalty tests on A Day+1, that's unhealthy. Loyalty has to be earned not demanded. If Leavers are alienating British citizens, instead of branding those dissidents unfit to breathe the air of the country, they would do well to ask why they themselves are so repellent.

It's a conversation between me and william, thank you.

I've learnt that conversation with you on this subject is entirely non productive. You are the Peter Hitchens of Remain.

No offence.

You would do well to reflect on what I wrote though. If British citizenship is to be reserved only for those who wear Union Jack socks and who are looking forward to the abolition of decimalisation, the country is going to go to the dogs fast.

No offence.

since most of your Brexit comments have turned out to be meaningless scaremongering with a side order of bile, we may just decide to skip on the reflection.

AlastairMeeks

Casino_Royale said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Casino_Royale said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Casino_Royale said:

williamglenn said:

Casino_Royale said:

williamglenn said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

williamglenn said:

RobD said:

Have you, since Merkel certainly didn't say it had to be agreed.

The fact that people are arguing about this shows how skilful Merkel is.

Not really. The fact you are arguing about it shows how gullible you are. Things will resolve.

The status of EU/UK nationals - which should not have been on the table in the first place for which both sides are at fault - will be resolved first and very quickly.

Wishful thinking. The linkage between this question and the status of Northern Ireland and Scotland will be one of the first things to blindside the government.

Genuine question: do you, and will you, feel any loyalty to this country when it Leaves the EU?

To the country and the people, yes absolutely, but I think the UK as a state has run its course. The 'precious' union to me is now the EU and I would hope that the nations of the UK individually chose to take up their rightful place in it.

Doesn't sound like a yes.

If you're applying loyalty tests on A Day+1, that's unhealthy. Loyalty has to be earned not demanded. If Leavers are alienating British citizens, instead of branding those dissidents unfit to breathe the air of the country, they would do well to ask why they themselves are so repellent.

It's a conversation between me and william, thank you.

I've learnt that conversation with you on this subject is entirely non productive. You are the Peter Hitchens of Remain.

No offence.

You would do well to reflect on what I wrote though. If British citizenship is to be reserved only for those who wear Union Jack socks and who are looking forward to the abolition of decimalisation, the country is going to go to the dogs fast.

No offence.

We'd need the Greyhound Stadiums back for that first.

Leavers' epic post-referendum failure is any attempt to develop an idea of Britishness that can include the views of those who disagreed with them.

Sunil_Prasannan

AlastairMeeks said:

Casino_Royale said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Casino_Royale said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Casino_Royale said:

williamglenn said:

Casino_Royale said:

williamglenn said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

williamglenn said:

RobD said:

Have you, since Merkel certainly didn't say it had to be agreed.

The fact that people are arguing about this shows how skilful Merkel is.

Not really. The fact you are arguing about it shows how gullible you are. Things will resolve.

The status of EU/UK nationals - which should not have been on the table in the first place for which both sides are at fault - will be resolved first and very quickly.

Wishful thinking. The linkage between this question and the status of Northern Ireland and Scotland will be one of the first things to blindside the government.

Genuine question: do you, and will you, feel any loyalty to this country when it Leaves the EU?

To the country and the people, yes absolutely, but I think the UK as a state has run its course. The 'precious' union to me is now the EU and I would hope that the nations of the UK individually chose to take up their rightful place in it.

Doesn't sound like a yes.

If you're applying loyalty tests on A Day+1, that's unhealthy. Loyalty has to be earned not demanded. If Leavers are alienating British citizens, instead of branding those dissidents unfit to breathe the air of the country, they would do well to ask why they themselves are so repellent.

It's a conversation between me and william, thank you.

I've learnt that conversation with you on this subject is entirely non productive. You are the Peter Hitchens of Remain.

No offence.

You would do well to reflect on what I wrote though. If British citizenship is to be reserved only for those who wear Union Jack socks and who are looking forward to the abolition of decimalisation, the country is going to go to the dogs fast.

No offence.

We'd need the Greyhound Stadiums back for that first.

Leavers' epic post-referendum failure is any attempt to develop an idea of Britishness that can include the views of those who disagreed with them.

"We'll always have Paris Budapest!"

Alanbrooke

AlastairMeeks said:

Casino_Royale said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Casino_Royale said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Casino_Royale said:

williamglenn said:

Casino_Royale said:

williamglenn said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

williamglenn said:

RobD said:

Have you, since Merkel certainly didn't say it had to be agreed.

The fact that people are arguing about this shows how skilful Merkel is.

Not really. The fact you are arguing about it shows how gullible you are. Things will resolve.

The status of EU/UK nationals - which should not have been on the table in the first place for which both sides are at fault - will be resolved first and very quickly.

Wishful thinking. The linkage between this question and the status of Northern Ireland and Scotland will be one of the first things to blindside the government.

Genuine question: do you, and will you, feel any loyalty to this country when it Leaves the EU?

To the country and the people, yes absolutely, but I think the UK as a state has run its course. The 'precious' union to me is now the EU and I would hope that the nations of the UK individually chose to take up their rightful place in it.

Doesn't sound like a yes.

If you're applying loyalty tests on A Day+1, that's unhealthy. Loyalty has to be earned not demanded. If Leavers are alienating British citizens, instead of branding those dissidents unfit to breathe the air of the country, they would do well to ask why they themselves are so repellent.

It's a conversation between me and william, thank you.

I've learnt that conversation with you on this subject is entirely non productive. You are the Peter Hitchens of Remain.

No offence.

You would do well to reflect on what I wrote though. If British citizenship is to be reserved only for those who wear Union Jack socks and who are looking forward to the abolition of decimalisation, the country is going to go to the dogs fast.

No offence.

We'd need the Greyhound Stadiums back for that first.

Leavers' epic post-referendum failure is any attempt to develop an idea of Britishness that can include the views of those who disagreed with them.

investment up
growth up
employment up

kle4

calum said:

Will PB.com be adopting ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39444432

If there are that many options it would seem simpler and more equal to just not bother with any bloody titles.

Sunil_Prasannan

FrancisUrquhart said:

I think somebody posted yesterday that Gina Miller sounded in much more conciliatory tone and she had moved on....moved on to a new legal challenge by the looks of it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4365322/Remoaners-threaten-campaign-halt-Parliament.html

Sore Loserman!!

AlastairMeeks

Alanbrooke said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Casino_Royale said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Casino_Royale said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Casino_Royale said:

williamglenn said:

Casino_Royale said:

williamglenn said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

williamglenn said:

RobD said:

Have you, since Merkel certainly didn't say it had to be agreed.

The fact that people are arguing about this shows how skilful Merkel is.

Not really. The fact you are arguing about it shows how gullible you are. Things will resolve.

The status of EU/UK nationals - which should not have been on the table in the first place for which both sides are at fault - will be resolved first and very quickly.

Wishful thinking. The linkage between this question and the status of Northern Ireland and Scotland will be one of the first things to blindside the government.

Genuine question: do you, and will you, feel any loyalty to this country when it Leaves the EU?

To the country and the people, yes absolutely, but I think the UK as a state has run its course. The 'precious' union to me is now the EU and I would hope that the nations of the UK individually chose to take up their rightful place in it.

Doesn't sound like a yes.

If you're applying loyalty tests on A Day+1, that's unhealthy. Loyalty has to be earned not demanded. If Leavers are alienating British citizens, instead of branding those dissidents unfit to breathe the air of the country, they would do well to ask why they themselves are so repellent.

It's a conversation between me and william, thank you.

I've learnt that conversation with you on this subject is entirely non productive. You are the Peter Hitchens of Remain.

No offence.

You would do well to reflect on what I wrote though. If British citizenship is to be reserved only for those who wear Union Jack socks and who are looking forward to the abolition of decimalisation, the country is going to go to the dogs fast.

No offence.

We'd need the Greyhound Stadiums back for that first.

Leavers' epic post-referendum failure is any attempt to develop an idea of Britishness that can include the views of those who disagreed with them.

investment up
growth up
employment up

Unhappiness up
Division up
Racism up

TheScreamingEagles

There's a very simple test on being British.

Do you favour nuking France?

If yes, then you're as British as bulldog flying a Spitfire.

If no, then you're as foreign as The House of Windsor.

RobD

kle4 said:

calum said:

Will PB.com be adopting ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39444432

If there are that many options it would seem simpler and more equal to just not bother with any bloody titles.

All we need now are some "non-binary" peerage titles. Anyone got any ideas?

Essexit

FrancisUrquhart said:

I think somebody posted yesterday that Gina Miller sounded in much more conciliatory tone and she had moved on....moved on to a new legal challenge by the looks of it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4365322/Remoaners-threaten-campaign-halt-Parliament.html

Liberal Democrat leader Tim Farron has vowed to go into the Parliamentary trenches over the Bill.

He said: 'We are going to launch a legislative war.

'We will grind the Government's agenda to a standstill, unless proper and rigorous safeguards are given over the great repeal bill.'

Watch out Theresa, all 9 LibDems will try to 'grind your agenda to a standstill'!

Give me strength.