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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Corbyn’s ratings hit an historical low for a LAB leader at thi

SystemSystem Posts: 11,020
edited April 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Corbyn’s ratings hit an historical low for a LAB leader at this stage

Corbyn has the worst ratings after 18 months of any LAB leader since @IpsosMORI began asking the question 40 years ago pic.twitter.com/niNq4pqTdE

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    First like Liverpool in the Merseyside derby.
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    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,203
    Second like remoan
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    Jez truly is crap. He's going to do what Thatcher failed to achieve and scorch socialism from the face of the earth.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,744
    It is hard to see how he could last another 3 years, but he's surprised us before.

    And of course winning Gorton by 0.2% will be a tremendous triumph and show his popularity*

    *in truth if it is less than 10% I will be stunned.
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    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    I do not know about other people but I am getting Corbyns out. I think everything has been said and repeated numerous times.I hope he stands down soon and let's a younger person take the lead .
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    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,203
    You'd have to think at some point even Corbyn will understand that his bag doesn't travel.

    The problem is, the alternative tack of a return to the third way doesn't wash either. What do they offer to the 50-odd percent of the population who haven't been bewitched by May's Mutti schtick?
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    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    I am hoping that the betting markets are wrong on this one. Corbyn should lead Labour into a General Election so that the Far Left can be thumped, and be seen to be thumped, by the electorate. The Labour Party as a whole also deserves severe retribution for installing him as leader in the first place.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,744
    Yorkcity said:

    I do not know about other people but I am getting Corbyns out. I think everything has been said and repeated numerous times.I hope he stands down soon and let's a younger person take the lead .

    Indeed, all has been said. He'd be happier for it too, no doubt, but he is understandably stubborn and doesn't want his opponents to win.

    A sorry story.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    Are we sure Jeremy corbyn as leader of the labour party isn't an April fool's that got out of hand?
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    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869
    Yorkcity said:

    I do not know about other people but I am getting Corbyns out. I think everything has been said and repeated numerous times.I hope he stands down soon and let's a younger person take the lead .

    I don't think his age has much to do with it - it's his mind having set solid in concrete when he was young that's the problem.

    If a young leader were to arise with a similarly unadaptable mind-set, events would pretty soon overtake that leader too.
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    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,203
    kle4 said:

    Yorkcity said:

    I do not know about other people but I am getting Corbyns out. I think everything has been said and repeated numerous times.I hope he stands down soon and let's a younger person take the lead .

    Indeed, all has been said. He'd be happier for it too, no doubt, but he is understandably stubborn and doesn't want his opponents to win.

    A sorry story.
    Regardless of all the politics, he's an analogue leader in the digital age. As a result he isn't getting any message over at all.... That to me is the biggest failing.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,115

    Jez truly is crap. He's going to do what Thatcher failed to achieve and scorch socialism from the face of the earth.

    The secret Cabinet sessions with Agent Corbyn from 1980 will have to be sealed for a lot longer than thirty years.....
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    edited April 2017

    Jez truly is crap. He's going to do what Thatcher failed to achieve and scorch socialism from the face of the earth.

    We have just had canvassers knocking on the door. One set Tory, one set Labour. The Labours ones never mentioned Corbyn, the Tory ones mentioned little else.

    Mr Corbyn is clearly an electoral asset, even in local elections. Just not for his own side....

    (No sign of the Libs, but that is not unusual around here. Historically they have been useless about door knocking and leafleting in this area. Even when I signed the candidate's papers, it did not seem to help :):) )
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    You'd have to think at some point even Corbyn will understand that his bag doesn't travel.

    The problem is, the alternative tack of a return to the third way doesn't wash either. What do they offer to the 50-odd percent of the population who haven't been bewitched by May's Mutti schtick?

    If Nature abhors a vacuum, I wonder when an opposition will spontaneously be created from the quantum fluctuations of the void?
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Corbyn has the worst ratings of any LAB leader in 40 years. – Told you he’s special…..
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,744
    edited April 2017
    AnneJGP said:

    Yorkcity said:

    I do not know about other people but I am getting Corbyns out. I think everything has been said and repeated numerous times.I hope he stands down soon and let's a younger person take the lead .

    I don't think his age has much to do with it - it's his mind having set solid in concrete when he was young that's the problem.

    If a young leader were to arise with a similarly unadaptable mind-set, events would pretty soon overtake that leader too.
    Probably, but they would perhaps be sharper and better presented, which would likely be enough to stem the drop given so many people are desperate for an effective opposition (if not as many as Corbyn pretends), and keep them at manageable levels even if those ideas would not be enough to win outright.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,653
    Apologies for posting this again - but I think its brilliant even if it is Remoaner - best bit is Corbyn as violinist on rapidly submerging boat deck - followed by May:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/ComedyCentralUK/status/847859783801737217/video/1
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    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956
    I might put some dosh on him making it to the GE, those odds look good to me.

    No doubt he realises he'd lose, and he's probably not enjoying the job, but Milne and McDonnell won't let him relinquish the hard left's grip on the Labour leadership any time soon. There's no obvious replacement from that wing of the party since Clive Lewis blotted his copybook either. Corbyn chose to stay on after the post-referendum no-confidence vote and ShadCab resignations, and there's no reason to think another leadership election would have a different outcome.
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    Apologies for posting this again - but I think its brilliant even if it is Remoaner - best bit is Corbyn as violinist on rapidly submerging boat deck - followed by May:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/ComedyCentralUK/status/847859783801737217/video/1

    That is actually quite funny :D
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908
    SeanT said:



    lol. You sound like Peter Hitchens dismissing the World Wide Web as a passing fad.

    The general consensus is that driverless trucks will conquer within a decade.

    "It seems highly likely that competition between the various companies developing these technologies will produce practical, self-driving trucks within the next five to 10 years"

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/feb/16/self-driving-trucks-automation-jobs-trucking-industry

    It will happen because of money, of course

    https://www.wired.com/2016/12/amazons-real-future-isnt-drones-self-driving-trucks/

    It will happen. But not that fast.
    The regulatory barriers alone will be big... Plus truckers interest groups will fight back.
    5-10 years for viable tech does not equal end of truck drivers.

    Think of Uber/ride sharing. They launched eight year ago. There are still plenty of normal taxis around - and that's with Uber literally losing billions a year to try and gain market share.

    The difference in technological complexity between building an app to match drivers to customers and building an autonomous system to drive a truck across a country is enormous.

    I wish we could bet on number of truck drivers in the US in 2025... But can't see a way to make it work.

    PS. Enjoyed that you linked to a guardian article for general consensus!
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,744
    rkrkrk said:

    SeanT said:



    lol. You sound like Peter Hitchens dismissing the World Wide Web as a passing fad.

    The general consensus is that driverless trucks will conquer within a decade.

    "It seems highly likely that competition between the various companies developing these technologies will produce practical, self-driving trucks within the next five to 10 years"

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/feb/16/self-driving-trucks-automation-jobs-trucking-industry

    It will happen because of money, of course

    https://www.wired.com/2016/12/amazons-real-future-isnt-drones-self-driving-trucks/

    PS. Enjoyed that you linked to a guardian article for general consensus!
    The Guardian has received some rare praise compared to its fellows round these parts, for comparatively balanced and in depth coverage apparently.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,059

    Apologies for posting this again - but I think its brilliant even if it is Remoaner - best bit is Corbyn as violinist on rapidly submerging boat deck - followed by May:/1

    I'm sure I can see CarlottaVance rearranging the deckchairs in the background.
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,525
    edited April 2017
    So:

    1 - Which will come first - driverless trucks or driverless Tube Trains?
    2 - What are good Corbynite policies to discuss at length with Lab canvassers? Ask for them to explain Green Quantitative Easing?
    Any suggestions for Lib Dems and Lib-Dems-now-called-Independents?
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,334
    SeanT said:

    Fpt for Richard T


    There will be a backlash when a driverless truck kills someone, but I very much doubt that will stop the technology, not least because human-driven trucks kill people every day. Driverless trucks will almost certainly be safer, overall.

    Moreover, we've had driverless trains for years, I presume they must have squashed people in their time, but they are still the coming thing. Paris is about to build an entire new rail system with no drivers.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automated_urban_metro_subway_systems

    Also FPT - Uber has just pulled out of Denmark altogether - a cross-party majority imposed conditions that they weren't able to fulfil (usual licenced taxis vs free rangers arguments on both sides).
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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    Jez truly is crap. He's going to do what Thatcher failed to achieve and scorch socialism from the face of the earth.

    We have just had canvassers knocking on the door. One set Tory, one set Labour. The Labours ones never mentioned Corbyn, the Tory ones mentioned little else.

    Mr Corbyn is clearly an electoral asset, even in local elections. Just not for his own side....

    (No sign of the Libs, but that is not unusual around here. Historically they have been useless about door knocking and leafleting in this area. Even when I signed the candidate's papers, it did not seem to help :):) )
    Are you in Trafford Beverley? My guess is that all the focus is on Gorton
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    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    kle4 said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Yorkcity said:

    I do not know about other people but I am getting Corbyns out. I think everything has been said and repeated numerous times.I hope he stands down soon and let's a younger person take the lead .

    I don't think his age has much to do with it - it's his mind having set solid in concrete when he was young that's the problem.

    If a young leader were to arise with a similarly unadaptable mind-set, events would pretty soon overtake that leader too.
    Probably, but they would perhaps be sharper and better presented, which would likely be enough to stem the drop given so many people are desperate for an effective opposition (if not as many as Corbyn pretends), and keep them at manageable levels even if those ideas would not be enough to win outright.
    Yes and hopefully less baggage which gets in the way of any new current policy ideas.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,653
    rkrkrk said:

    SeanT said:



    lol. You sound like Peter Hitchens dismissing the World Wide Web as a passing fad.

    The general consensus is that driverless trucks will conquer within a decade.

    "It seems highly likely that competition between the various companies developing these technologies will produce practical, self-driving trucks within the next five to 10 years"

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/feb/16/self-driving-trucks-automation-jobs-trucking-industry

    It will happen because of money, of course

    https://www.wired.com/2016/12/amazons-real-future-isnt-drones-self-driving-trucks/

    It will happen. But not that fast
    Isn't the rule of thumb for new technology that we tend to overestimate how quickly it will arrive but underestimate its impact when it does?
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    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited April 2017
    Corbyn needs time to finish the job he started.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,653

    Apologies for posting this again - but I think its brilliant even if it is Remoaner - best bit is Corbyn as violinist on rapidly submerging boat deck - followed by May:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/ComedyCentralUK/status/847859783801737217/video/1

    That is actually quite funny :D
    Highlights for me were big red bus as iceberg, Corbyn fiddling and May exhorting......
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    SeanT said:

    Fpt for Richard T


    There will be a backlash when a driverless truck kills someone, but I very much doubt that will stop the technology, not least because human-driven trucks kill people every day. Driverless trucks will almost certainly be safer, overall.

    Moreover, we've had driverless trains for years, I presume they must have squashed people in their time, but they are still the coming thing. Paris is about to build an entire new rail system with no drivers.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automated_urban_metro_subway_systems

    Also FPT - Uber has just pulled out of Denmark altogether - a cross-party majority imposed conditions that they weren't able to fulfil (usual licenced taxis vs free rangers arguments on both sides).
    B*gger was planning to use them onWednesday. Are they also dropping that slightly dodgy work around they had?
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908

    rkrkrk said:

    SeanT said:



    lol. You sound like Peter Hitchens dismissing the World Wide Web as a passing fad.

    The general consensus is that driverless trucks will conquer within a decade.

    "It seems highly likely that competition between the various companies developing these technologies will produce practical, self-driving trucks within the next five to 10 years"

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/feb/16/self-driving-trucks-automation-jobs-trucking-industry

    It will happen because of money, of course

    https://www.wired.com/2016/12/amazons-real-future-isnt-drones-self-driving-trucks/

    It will happen. But not that fast
    Isn't the rule of thumb for new technology that we tend to overestimate how quickly it will arrive but underestimate its impact when it does?
    Makes sense to me.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Good evening, everyone.

    Miss Vance, that's a very good video.

    Comrades, numbers are well-known as a perverse propaganda tool of deviant capitalists. But even their own rumour-monger numerologists have been proven wrong time and time again. By their reckoning, Ed Miliband was neck-and-neck with David Cameron, and Remain would have won the referendum.

    Do not listen to the polls. Listen to your hearts, to the wise words of Chairman Corbyn and, most of all, to the Momentum newsletter to which I trust you are all subscribed.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,995

    Jez truly is crap. He's going to do what Thatcher failed to achieve and scorch socialism from the face of the earth.

    25% for socialism will be the Corbynista cry!
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    Jez truly is crap. He's going to do what Thatcher failed to achieve and scorch socialism from the face of the earth.

    We have just had canvassers knocking on the door. One set Tory, one set Labour. The Labours ones never mentioned Corbyn, the Tory ones mentioned little else.

    Mr Corbyn is clearly an electoral asset, even in local elections. Just not for his own side....

    (No sign of the Libs, but that is not unusual around here. Historically they have been useless about door knocking and leafleting in this area. Even when I signed the candidate's papers, it did not seem to help :):) )
    Are you in Trafford Beverley? My guess is that all the focus is on Gorton
    Yes I am in Trafford, but a local Labour Councillor has resigned due to ill-health and she only had a 200 vote majority so I think there is a bit of a local fight.
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    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Off topic. I asked about buying a data card for a spare mobile phone while in Spain. I got this. You need a passport and was able to pay the €15 in cash. The 60 mins of calls can be used to call anywhere in the world, but it is only 4p a minute calling UK numbers with your UK Sim card.

    https://www.vodafone.es/c/particulares/es/tienda/movil/tourist-in-spain-vf/
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    Has it been confirmed? JICINPM?
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    Apologies for posting this again - but I think its brilliant even if it is Remoaner - best bit is Corbyn as violinist on rapidly submerging boat deck - followed by May:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/ComedyCentralUK/status/847859783801737217/video/1

    That is actually quite funny :D
    Highlights for me were big red bus as iceberg, Corbyn fiddling and May exhorting......
    Boris as the creepy baby was good, but the portlights blinking out and then relighting as 48% 52% and then splitting down the middle got a gold star from me. Deadly accurate ;-)
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,216

    I am hoping that the betting markets are wrong on this one. Corbyn should lead Labour into a General Election so that the Far Left can be thumped, and be seen to be thumped, by the electorate. The Labour Party as a whole also deserves severe retribution for installing him as leader in the first place.

    You are right. But I have some sympathy with ordinary pre-2015 Labour members who must be in despair. They know what's going to happen but seems nothing can be done, thanks to the £3 armchair twitter entryists who have flooded the party.

    Personally I can not fathom for one moment what any of them see in this blithering idiot.

    What a mess. For all of us as no opposition.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Uber seems to be a spectacular long running con to trick investors (Saudis in the latest round) into subsidising people's taxi rides.

    They don't have a business plan that scales or a technology group gives them an edge and they have no end goal when driverless cars come either.

    They are 15 billion down with no escape ramp.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,216
    HYUFD said:

    Jez truly is crap. He's going to do what Thatcher failed to achieve and scorch socialism from the face of the earth.

    25% for socialism will be the Corbynista cry!
    Yes, it's certainly what they said in 1983, when Foot failed - and he was a political titan compared to this 'leader'.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. Borough, whilst I largely agree, the ineptitude of the PLP in allowing Corbyn onto the ballot ought not be underestimated. It was their role to act as gatekeepers. They failed to perform that duty, having failed to understand it.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,216

    Mr. Borough, whilst I largely agree, the ineptitude of the PLP in allowing Corbyn onto the ballot ought not be underestimated. It was their role to act as gatekeepers. They failed to perform that duty, having failed to understand it.

    Indeed. As I say, what a mess.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,744

    Mr. Borough, whilst I largely agree, the ineptitude of the PLP in allowing Corbyn onto the ballot ought not be underestimated. It was their role to act as gatekeepers. They failed to perform that duty, having failed to understand it.

    They didn't fail to understand it - they ignored it because they thought they could throw a sop to the members by 'widening debate' without it hurting them. That's a much worse failing than merely not understanding the point of the system they had approved, presumably for a reason.
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    Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    Trumpton

    Trump bailing out is on his table, if the investigations continue to go where he fears they will. On what basis this is under consideration I'm not sure, because it won't protect him if his name is the frame.

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    View_From_CumbriaView_From_Cumbria Posts: 241
    edited April 2017
    I'm not sure how many are killed in car accidents in the UK nowadays. I know when I was a kid it was about 6,000 and that now it is reduced to about half ???, say 3,000.

    Meanwhile if a rail accident kills say 10 people then that is a national disaster. I know there have been years with no rail deaths other than suicides. But under 10 is the acceptable number. 20 or 30 would be a disaster.

    The problem for driverless cars is very real. If driverless cars were introduced and only killed 500 a year technologically that would be a giant leap forward and totally unacceptable at the same time.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,744
    edited April 2017

    I am hoping that the betting markets are wrong on this one. Corbyn should lead Labour into a General Election so that the Far Left can be thumped, and be seen to be thumped, by the electorate. The Labour Party as a whole also deserves severe retribution for installing him as leader in the first place.

    They know what's going to happen but seems nothing can be done, thanks to the £3 armchair twitter entryists who have flooded the party.
    .
    That has to be galling for some. I view it from outside, of course, but there are enough reports of long term supporters of non-labour groups verbally abusing people who have been labour members for decades as though they are not real supporters of the party to be credible.
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    edited April 2017

    I'm not sure how many are killed in car accidents in the UK nowadays. I know when I was a kid it was about 6,000 and that now it is reduced to about half ???, say 3,000.

    Meanwhile if a rail accident kills say 10 people then that is a national disaster. I know there have been years with no rail deaths other than suicides. But under 10 is the acceptable number. 20 or 30 would be a disaster.

    The problem for driverless cars is very real. If driverless cars were introduced and only killed 500 a year technologically that would be a giant leap forward and totally unacceptable at the same time.

    1732 deaths in 2015
    https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casualties-in-great-britain-main-results-2015
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908
    Alistair said:

    Uber seems to be a spectacular long running con to trick investors (Saudis in the latest round) into subsidising people's taxi rides.

    They don't have a business plan that scales or a technology group gives them an edge and they have no end goal when driverless cars come either.

    They are 15 billion down with no escape ramp.

    I'm thinking this too.
    Any ideas on how i can bet on it happening?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,995

    HYUFD said:

    Jez truly is crap. He's going to do what Thatcher failed to achieve and scorch socialism from the face of the earth.

    25% for socialism will be the Corbynista cry!
    Yes, it's certainly what they said in 1983, when Foot failed - and he was a political titan compared to this 'leader'.
    Benn certainly believed that
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,994
    SeanT said:

    Fpt for Richard T


    There will be a backlash when a driverless truck kills someone, but I very much doubt that will stop the technology, not least because human-driven trucks kill people every day. Driverless trucks will almost certainly be safer, overall.

    Moreover, we've had driverless trains for years, I presume they must have squashed people in their time, but they are still the coming thing. Paris is about to build an entire new rail system with no drivers.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automated_urban_metro_subway_systems

    Comparing driverless trains with driverless cars is hilarious on so many levels. For one thing, the automated lines are unlikely to have unautomated trains, cyclists, walkers etc on them. They also do not rely on vision and have highly automated signalling systems.

    Also note that these 'driverless' systems (such as the Victoria / Central Line or Docklands) still require a staff member on board. There are relatively few train services that are fully automated to the extent where they can safely operate with no staff (from memory, level 4).
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,653

    I'm not sure how many are killed in car accidents in the UK nowadays. I know when I was a kid it was about 6,000 and that now it is reduced to about half ???, say 3,000.

    Meanwhile if a rail accident kills say 10 people then that is a national disaster. I know there have been years with no rail deaths other than suicides. But under 10 is the acceptable number. 20 or 30 would be a disaster.

    The problem for driverless cars is very real. If driverless cars were introduced and only killed 500 a year technologically that would be a giant leap forward and totally unacceptable at the same time.

    In reported road traffic accidents in 2015:

    road deaths decreased by 2% compared with 2014, falling to 1,732
    the number of people seriously injured decreased by 3% to 22,137
    there were a total of 186,209 casualties of all severities
    140,086 personal-injury road traffic accidents were reported to the police
    reported child casualties fell by 4% to 16,101, compared with 2014
    traffic volumes rose by 1.6% compared with 2014


    https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casualties-in-great-britain-main-results-2015

    Rowan Atkinson used to do a sketch on road deaths (huh? - ed) where he'd recite the different total fatalities across Europe starting from a low U.K. And ending with orders of magnitude worse Spain and Italy. He'd then pause and say "tragic though these figures are, I say to you -THEYRE NOT ENOUGH! You're British, when you drive on the Continent you Bally we'll drive on our side of the road and take some dagoes with you as you go." I suspect it's no longer in his repertoire....
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. kle4, now there's a philosophical debate.

    What's more stupid: the PLP putting Corbyn on the ballot because they failed to understand the rules, or because they did understand the rules?
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    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    edited April 2017
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,744
    fewer of the youngest millennials, those aged 18 to 25, support egalitarian family arrangements than did the same age group 20 years earlier.

    This sort of thing seems to support the theory SeanT was proposing yesterday that the very young seem to more rightwing (for want of a better term, I would class it more as being more extreme, in different directions than those just above them age wise) than previously.
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908

    SeanT said:

    Fpt for Richard T


    There will be a backlash when a driverless truck kills someone, but I very much doubt that will stop the technology, not least because human-driven trucks kill people every day. Driverless trucks will almost certainly be safer, overall.

    Moreover, we've had driverless trains for years, I presume they must have squashed people in their time, but they are still the coming thing. Paris is about to build an entire new rail system with no drivers.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automated_urban_metro_subway_systems

    Comparing driverless trains with driverless cars is hilarious on so many levels. For one thing, the automated lines are unlikely to have unautomated trains, cyclists, walkers etc on them. They also do not rely on vision and have highly automated signalling systems.

    Also note that these 'driverless' systems (such as the Victoria / Central Line or Docklands) still require a staff member on board. There are relatively few train services that are fully automated to the extent where they can safely operate with no staff (from memory, level 4).
    Wikipedia says first automatic train operation was in 1967.
    Fifty years later there are still drivers on trains.

    I think truckers have a bit of time yet...
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    rkrkrk said:

    SeanT said:

    Fpt for Richard T


    There will be a backlash when a driverless truck kills someone, but I very much doubt that will stop the technology, not least because human-driven trucks kill people every day. Driverless trucks will almost certainly be safer, overall.

    Moreover, we've had driverless trains for years, I presume they must have squashed people in their time, but they are still the coming thing. Paris is about to build an entire new rail system with no drivers.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automated_urban_metro_subway_systems

    Comparing driverless trains with driverless cars is hilarious on so many levels. For one thing, the automated lines are unlikely to have unautomated trains, cyclists, walkers etc on them. They also do not rely on vision and have highly automated signalling systems.

    Also note that these 'driverless' systems (such as the Victoria / Central Line or Docklands) still require a staff member on board. There are relatively few train services that are fully automated to the extent where they can safely operate with no staff (from memory, level 4).
    Wikipedia says first automatic train operation was in 1967.
    Fifty years later there are still drivers on trains.

    I think truckers have a bit of time yet...
    How well are truckers unionised?
  • Options
    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    edited April 2017
    kle4 said:

    fewer of the youngest millennials, those aged 18 to 25, support egalitarian family arrangements than did the same age group 20 years earlier.

    This sort of thing seems to support the theory SeanT was proposing yesterday that the very young seem to more rightwing (for want of a better term, I would class it more as being more extreme, in different directions than those just above them age wise) than previously.
    I've seen that theory posed by SeanT on here before, however I read it that was he commenting in relation to British young people. The NY Times article does state that European young people do differ from their American counterparts on this. The BSA survey also does point too our societyhaving gradually become more liberal too. I read the NY Times article as more of read on American young people than anything else.
  • Options
    MJWMJW Posts: 1,350

    You'd have to think at some point even Corbyn will understand that his bag doesn't travel.

    The problem is, the alternative tack of a return to the third way doesn't wash either. What do they offer to the 50-odd percent of the population who haven't been bewitched by May's Mutti schtick?

    The problem is he really doesn't and nor do his fans - nor do they care. As to how this can be the case, look at the Greens. Now, even if you're an environmentally conscious chap, if you like your party to win, and you know, do stuff, you could see the whole thing's a pointless exercise - Even if rising seas submerged East Anglia Britain would not elect a green government. But that's to miss the point as to why people become Green members, it's not to gain or even come close to power but to provide a megaphone for niche viewpoints. Tell people in the pub you think everyone should become a vegan and you'll be laughed at. Find the other 100,000 or so who think that way and formulate a policy to that effect and you've got a conference, can get your views on telly and in the papers. That's the point of minor parties - magnify niche views and hold out hope that via some miracle the scales fall from the public's eyes.

    Corbyn is basically turning Labour into that - a megaphone for the part of the left even those of us who are leftwing used to ignore because they're idiots. It's better for these people, and Corbyn and McDonnell for that matter, that they are in situ even if Labour's at 15% in the polls - it's still a far bigger megaphone than milling around in the alphabeti spaghetti of hard left parties or being a backbencher whips can't even be arsed to try and persuade to back the party line as they know the outcome.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,744

    kle4 said:

    fewer of the youngest millennials, those aged 18 to 25, support egalitarian family arrangements than did the same age group 20 years earlier.

    This sort of thing seems to support the theory SeanT was proposing yesterday that the very young seem to more rightwing (for want of a better term, I would class it more as being more extreme, in different directions than those just above them age wise) than previously.
    I've seen that theory posed by SeanT on here before, however I read it that was he commenting in relation to British young people. The NY Times article does state that European young people do differ from their American counterparts on this. The BSA survey also does point too our societyhaving gradually become more liberal too. I read the NY Times article as more of read on American young people than anything else.
    Well obviously that's their focus, but anecdotally I think it works - only the things american youth are reverting on are different from British youth.
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Ishmael_Z said:

    rkrkrk said:

    SeanT said:

    Fpt for Richard T


    There will be a backlash when a driverless truck kills someone, but I very much doubt that will stop the technology, not least because human-driven trucks kill people every day. Driverless trucks will almost certainly be safer, overall.

    Moreover, we've had driverless trains for years, I presume they must have squashed people in their time, but they are still the coming thing. Paris is about to build an entire new rail system with no drivers.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automated_urban_metro_subway_systems

    Comparing driverless trains with driverless cars is hilarious on so many levels. For one thing, the automated lines are unlikely to have unautomated trains, cyclists, walkers etc on them. They also do not rely on vision and have highly automated signalling systems.

    Also note that these 'driverless' systems (such as the Victoria / Central Line or Docklands) still require a staff member on board. There are relatively few train services that are fully automated to the extent where they can safely operate with no staff (from memory, level 4).
    Wikipedia says first automatic train operation was in 1967.
    Fifty years later there are still drivers on trains.

    I think truckers have a bit of time yet...
    How well are truckers unionised?
    Exactly. That's the only significant factor in play.
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,715

    Apologies for posting this again - but I think its brilliant even if it is Remoaner - best bit is Corbyn as violinist on rapidly submerging boat deck - followed by May:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/ComedyCentralUK/status/847859783801737217/video/1

    That is actually quite funny :D
    Highlights for me were big red bus as iceberg, Corbyn fiddling and May exhorting......
    Boris as the creepy baby was good, but the portlights blinking out and then relighting as 48% 52% and then splitting down the middle got a gold star from me. Deadly accurate ;-)
    Did Boris think before he said that Brexit would be a TITANIC success?
    I also liked Farage milling about in the background and, if it was him, at the end sketching Trump.
    Whoever made the spoof video did a good job.
  • Options
    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    fewer of the youngest millennials, those aged 18 to 25, support egalitarian family arrangements than did the same age group 20 years earlier.

    This sort of thing seems to support the theory SeanT was proposing yesterday that the very young seem to more rightwing (for want of a better term, I would class it more as being more extreme, in different directions than those just above them age wise) than previously.
    I've seen that theory posed by SeanT on here before, however I read it that was he commenting in relation to British young people. The NY Times article does state that European young people do differ from their American counterparts on this. The BSA survey also does point too our societyhaving gradually become more liberal too. I read the NY Times article as more of read on American young people than anything else.
    Well obviously that's their focus, but anecdotally I think it works - only the things american youth are reverting on are different from British youth.
    Well, we are going on anecdotal evidence, then most of people around my age group I know I pretty liberal, especially when it comes to families.

  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,744
    edited April 2017

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    fewer of the youngest millennials, those aged 18 to 25, support egalitarian family arrangements than did the same age group 20 years earlier.

    This sort of thing seems to support the theory SeanT was proposing yesterday that the very young seem to more rightwing (for want of a better term, I would class it more as being more extreme, in different directions than those just above them age wise) than previously.
    I've seen that theory posed by SeanT on here before, however I read it that was he commenting in relation to British young people. The NY Times article does state that European young people do differ from their American counterparts on this. The BSA survey also does point too our societyhaving gradually become more liberal too. I read the NY Times article as more of read on American young people than anything else.
    Well obviously that's their focus, but anecdotally I think it works - only the things american youth are reverting on are different from British youth.
    Well, we are going on anecdotal evidence, then most of people around my age group I know I pretty liberal, especially when it comes to families.

    I was thinking economically, not socially (that's why i don't term it in terms of left or right wingeness by preference) - socially people are more liberal than ever at younger ages I would agree wholeheartedly.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,995
    edited April 2017
    kle4 said:

    fewer of the youngest millennials, those aged 18 to 25, support egalitarian family arrangements than did the same age group 20 years earlier.

    This sort of thing seems to support the theory SeanT was proposing yesterday that the very young seem to more rightwing (for want of a better term, I would class it more as being more extreme, in different directions than those just above them age wise) than previously.
    Yes but they still support public services etc and 60 years ago even amongst the young support for abortion and legalised homosexuality and career mothers was a niche view, amongst the young it is now opposition to that which is the niche view
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,744
    edited April 2017
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    fewer of the youngest millennials, those aged 18 to 25, support egalitarian family arrangements than did the same age group 20 years earlier.

    This sort of thing seems to support the theory SeanT was proposing yesterday that the very young seem to more rightwing (for want of a better term, I would class it more as being more extreme, in different directions than those just above them age wise) than previously.
    Yes but they still support public services etc and 60 years ago even amongst the young support for abortion and legalised homosexuality and career mothers was a niche view, amongst the young it is now opposition to that which is the niche view
    I was thinking in terms of economics over here - when I said more extreme in different directions it was because it seems to me young people are more harsh on economic matters, but far more liberal on social matters, so it doesn't fit the right-left consensus exactly.
  • Options
    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    fewer of the youngest millennials, those aged 18 to 25, support egalitarian family arrangements than did the same age group 20 years earlier.

    This sort of thing seems to support the theory SeanT was proposing yesterday that the very young seem to more rightwing (for want of a better term, I would class it more as being more extreme, in different directions than those just above them age wise) than previously.
    I've seen that theory posed by SeanT on here before, however I read it that was he commenting in relation to British young people. The NY Times article does state that European young people do differ from their American counterparts on this. The BSA survey also does point too our societyhaving gradually become more liberal too. I read the NY Times article as more of read on American young people than anything else.
    Well obviously that's their focus, but anecdotally I think it works - only the things american youth are reverting on are different from British youth.
    Well, we are going on anecdotal evidence, then most of people around my age group I know I pretty liberal, especially when it comes to families.

    I was thinking economically, not socially (that's why i don't term it in terms of left or right wingeness by preference) - socially people are more liberal than ever at younger ages I would agree wholeheartedly.
    Oh, okay. I was thinking more in social terms. Economically, I think that the young are supportive of free-markets, though I've made that judgement from YG poll I saw some months ago. Even though I'm not a 'free-marketeer' fiscal conservatism doesn't get me worked up. Now social conservatism? That's something I really don't like....
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,549
    Alistair said:

    Uber seems to be a spectacular long running con to trick investors (Saudis in the latest round) into subsidising people's taxi rides.

    They don't have a business plan that scales or a technology group gives them an edge and they have no end goal when driverless cars come either.

    They are 15 billion down with no escape ramp.

    Money might not even be Uber's biggest problem.

    https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/03/uber-executive-pleads-the-5th-wont-hand-over-documents-in-waymo-lawsuit/
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    rkrkrk said:

    Alistair said:

    Uber seems to be a spectacular long running con to trick investors (Saudis in the latest round) into subsidising people's taxi rides.

    They don't have a business plan that scales or a technology group gives them an edge and they have no end goal when driverless cars come either.

    They are 15 billion down with no escape ramp.

    I'm thinking this too.
    Any ideas on how i can bet on it happening?
    I haven't seen an avenue to take an anti-Uber position. And gave their magical ability to pull in unlimited investor cash on the promise of unicorns and rainbows it could well be a rationality-solvency interface anyways.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,744
    edited April 2017

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    fewer of the youngest millennials, those aged 18 to 25, support egalitarian family arrangements than did the same age group 20 years earlier.

    This sort of thing seems to support the theory SeanT was proposing yesterday that the very young seem to more rightwing (for want of a better term, I would class it more as being more extreme, in different directions than those just above them age wise) than previously.
    I've seen that theory posed by SeanT on here before, however I read it that was he commenting in relation to British young people. The NY Times article does state that European young people do differ from their American counterparts on this. The BSA survey also does point too our societyhaving gradually become more liberal too. I read the NY Times article as more of read on American young people than anything else.
    Well obviously that's their focus, but anecdotally I think it works - only the things american youth are reverting on are different from British youth.
    Well, we are going on anecdotal evidence, then most of people around my age group I know I pretty liberal, especially when it comes to families.

    I was thinking economically, not socially (that's why i don't term it in terms of left or right wingeness by preference) - socially people are more liberal than ever at younger ages I would agree wholeheartedly.
    Oh, okay. I was thinking more in social terms. Economically, I think that the young are supportive of free-markets, though I've made that judgement from YG poll I saw some months ago. Even though I'm not a 'free-marketeer' fiscal conservatism doesn't get me worked up. Now social conservatism? That's something I really don't like....
    I assume this is in part a result of growing up in an age of increasing austerity - young people therefore being more inclined to support (or at least accept) the idea of cut backs in general, and less sympathy for areas which are seemingly profligate being targeted. But none of that impacts on social issues much, so the trends of recent decades have only increased.

    And of course young people are more sensible now anyway, less drinking, smoking and drugs and all that.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926
    Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Ishmael_Z said:

    rkrkrk said:

    SeanT said:

    Fpt for Richard T


    There will be a backlash when a driverless truck kills someone, but I very much doubt that will stop the technology, not least because human-driven trucks kill people every day. Driverless trucks will almost certainly be safer, overall.

    Moreover, we've had driverless trains for years, I presume they must have squashed people in their time, but they are still the coming thing. Paris is about to build an entire new rail system with no drivers.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automated_urban_metro_subway_systems

    Comparing driverless trains with driverless cars is hilarious on so many levels. For one thing, the automated lines are unlikely to have unautomated trains, cyclists, walkers etc on them. They also do not rely on vision and have highly automated signalling systems.

    Also note that these 'driverless' systems (such as the Victoria / Central Line or Docklands) still require a staff member on board. There are relatively few train services that are fully automated to the extent where they can safely operate with no staff (from memory, level 4).
    Wikipedia says first automatic train operation was in 1967.
    Fifty years later there are still drivers on trains.

    I think truckers have a bit of time yet...
    How well are truckers unionised?
    They are the backbone of the Teamsters.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,653
    Pulpstar said:

    Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !

    Santander, fishing, 17million visitors.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,994
    edited April 2017
    Ishmael_Z said:

    How well are truckers unionised?

    Unionisation has little to do with it. An issue is the interaction between the automated system and messy, unpredictable people. They could make trains on (say) the Victoria Line run all day long (*) with no staff on board, as long as no members of the public interacted with them.

    But the public have the nasty habit of being unpredictable. Have you ever tried to beat the doors by jumping onto a tube at the mast minute? Have you ever had anything trapped in the doors, causing them to open and close again? Most *old* automated systems (even as 'old' as the DLR) require a member of staff on board to always, or occasionally, check the doors are clear and the train is safe to move off.

    Modern systems can get around this: for instance by having doors on the platforms as well (look at the Jubilee Line Extension for an example). This can be done on new lines. The cost of retrofitting such systems on old lines are massive, and it is just cheaper to keep the staff for another few years.

    There are other factors as well, but mostly it comes down to the interactions with the public.

    (*) AIUI with a few minor alterations.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,744

    Ishmael_Z said:

    How well are truckers unionised?

    Unionisation has little to do with it. An issue is the interaction between the automated system and messy, unpredictable people. They could make trains on (say) the Victoria Line run all day long (*) with no staff on board, as long as no members of the public interacted with them.

    But the public have the nasty habit of being unpredictable. Have you ever tried to beat the doors by jumping onto a tube at the mast minute? Have you ever had anything trapped in the doors, causing them to open and close again? Most *old* automated systems (even as 'old' as the DLR) require a member of staff on board to check the doors are clear and the train is safe to move off.

    Modern systems can get around this: for instance by having doors on the platforms as well (look at the Jubilee Line Extension for an example). This can be done on new lines. The cost of retrofitting such systems on old lines are massive, and it is just cheaper to keep the staff for another few years.

    There are other factors as well, but mostly it comes down to the interactions with the public.

    (*) AIUI with a few minor alterations.
    So what you're saying is we need to move right along to replacing people with automatons?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,995
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    fewer of the youngest millennials, those aged 18 to 25, support egalitarian family arrangements than did the same age group 20 years earlier.

    This sort of thing seems to support the theory SeanT was proposing yesterday that the very young seem to more rightwing (for want of a better term, I would class it more as being more extreme, in different directions than those just above them age wise) than previously.
    Yes but they still support public services etc and 60 years ago even amongst the young support for abortion and legalised homosexuality and career mothers was a niche view, amongst the young it is now opposition to that which is the niche view
    I was thinking in terms of economics over here - when I said more extreme in different directions it was because it seems to me young people are more harsh on economic matters, but far more liberal on social matters, so it doesn't fit the right-left consensus exactly.
    On the whole but the young still support the NHS and polling tends to show they oppose legalisation of drugs so they are not libertarians by any means
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    SeanT said:

    Fpt for Richard T


    There will be a backlash when a driverless truck kills someone, but I very much doubt that will stop the technology, not least because human-driven trucks kill people every day. Driverless trucks will almost certainly be safer, overall.

    Moreover, we've had driverless trains for years, I presume they must have squashed people in their time, but they are still the coming thing. Paris is about to build an entire new rail system with no drivers.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automated_urban_metro_subway_systems

    That assumes people would have a rational response, whereas I think they might not accept deaths caused by driverless cars in the same way as those driven by people even if the numbers are a lot less.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,744
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    fewer of the youngest millennials, those aged 18 to 25, support egalitarian family arrangements than did the same age group 20 years earlier.

    This sort of thing seems to support the theory SeanT was proposing yesterday that the very young seem to more rightwing (for want of a better term, I would class it more as being more extreme, in different directions than those just above them age wise) than previously.
    Yes but they still support public services etc and 60 years ago even amongst the young support for abortion and legalised homosexuality and career mothers was a niche view, amongst the young it is now opposition to that which is the niche view
    I was thinking in terms of economics over here - when I said more extreme in different directions it was because it seems to me young people are more harsh on economic matters, but far more liberal on social matters, so it doesn't fit the right-left consensus exactly.
    On the whole but the young still support the NHS and polling tends to show they oppose legalisation of drugs so they are not libertarians by any means
    Perhaps, though when you say 'oppose legalisation of drugs' what does that mean exactly? Oppose the legalisation of all drugs, or support some legalisation (eg marijauna but not cocaine)? What level of support for the NHS are we talking about, as support for the NHS to some degree is not seemingly a liberal/conservative position.
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,779
    The Betfair market "Corbyn to leave before GE" is easily one of my all time favourites. It's been a twisty and mind-bending ride, and its far from over!

    My current view is that its a little in May's interest not to be too unequivocal in ruling out a GE before 2020 even though she has no intention whatsoever of doing so. She's just seeming to allow herself the slimmest of wiggle room - and of course that suits anyway because she could change her mind.

    Anyway the result of this is that Corbyn hangs on - if it was clear that the GE was 2020 and not before there would be almost weekly challenges until someone emerged!

    Now of course this is depriving us of great Telly - the Eggheads chap could easily segue his role into a weekly Turniphead programme - "will the Turniphead ever be beaten"! And we'd get some great betting opportunities.


  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Macron is now out to 1.7

    I know nothing about French politics but that seems bonkers.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,994
    kle4 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    How well are truckers unionised?

    Unionisation has little to do with it. An issue is the interaction between the automated system and messy, unpredictable people. They could make trains on (say) the Victoria Line run all day long (*) with no staff on board, as long as no members of the public interacted with them.

    But the public have the nasty habit of being unpredictable. Have you ever tried to beat the doors by jumping onto a tube at the mast minute? Have you ever had anything trapped in the doors, causing them to open and close again? Most *old* automated systems (even as 'old' as the DLR) require a member of staff on board to check the doors are clear and the train is safe to move off.

    Modern systems can get around this: for instance by having doors on the platforms as well (look at the Jubilee Line Extension for an example). This can be done on new lines. The cost of retrofitting such systems on old lines are massive, and it is just cheaper to keep the staff for another few years.

    There are other factors as well, but mostly it comes down to the interactions with the public.

    (*) AIUI with a few minor alterations.
    So what you're saying is we need to move right along to replacing people with automatons?
    There're various sayings used in computing, like:
    "The software worked perfectly until we let the users use it."
    "We made the system idiotproof, and they developed a better form of idiot."

    :)
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,994
    Further to my previous post, the following has some good information on driverless trains n the underground:
    http://www.londonreconnections.com/2014/driverless-trains-piccadilly/
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274
    Alistair said:

    Macron is now out to 1.7

    I know nothing about French politics but that seems bonkers.

    Putin's folk are laying off their bets before they send out the Macron press release
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,059
    Pulpstar said:

    Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !

    Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,779
    IanB2 said:

    Alistair said:

    Macron is now out to 1.7

    I know nothing about French politics but that seems bonkers.

    Putin's folk are laying off their bets before they send out the Macron press release
    Quite - Macron could have skeletons. Backing him does seem a no brainer, but I've avoided it - my best result is Le Pen, and that's in part because I think that any stories that exist just have to be out there anyway.

    I have no idea how I would vote if I were French.
  • Options
    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908
    Does anyone know how the police pull over a driverless car with no one inside?
    I'm sure someone has thought of this... Just intrigued as to what the solution is...
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    rkrkrk said:

    Does anyone know how the police pull over a driverless car with no one inside?
    I'm sure someone has thought of this... Just intrigued as to what the solution is...

    Maybe police take over control of the car and instruct it to pull over? That does sound open to abuse though!
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,779
    rkrkrk said:

    Does anyone know how the police pull over a driverless car with no one inside?
    I'm sure someone has thought of this... Just intrigued as to what the solution is...

    Well if they swerve in front then it'll stop.
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,942
    SeanT said:

    Fpt for Richard T


    There will be a backlash when a driverless truck kills someone, but I very much doubt that will stop the technology, not least because human-driven trucks kill people every day. Driverless trucks will almost certainly be safer, overall.

    Moreover, we've had driverless trains for years, I presume they must have squashed people in their time, but they are still the coming thing. Paris is about to build an entire new rail system with no drivers.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automated_urban_metro_subway_systems

    I think the comparison with driverless trains is poor. Their direction is fixed by the tracks and they don't operate in the same environment as pedestrians and other drivers.

    I am sure driverless trucks will come. But it won't be soon and it will be preceded by a very extended period of time where they have human passengers as backups in case something goes wrong. We are already seeing it with the tests of automatic cars in the US.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,288
    SeanT said:

    AnneJGP said:



    *If* they are only one sensible decision away from a large improvement, then what are the chances of them actually making that change?

    If the improvement
    Even if the first of these was to happen, it is far from certain that the others would. Labour is in a deep hole; they are not yet at the bottom, and half of them are arguing over the colour the rescue rope should be whilst the other half look longingly further into the abyss.

    (snipped)
    That's a

    Likewise, the cuts. People have been hurt, but the dire claims made by Labour generally haven't occurred. Life's gone on.

    Labour need new messages that will resonate.
    I've thought for a long time that Labour need to go right back to the drawing board and do some serious thinking about what 'Labour' would be like if it had arisen today.

    Conditions have changed out of all recognition since Labour arose to fill a genuine need. Generally speaking, those needs have been met - Labour has succeeded in making them mainstream concerns.

    So, what needs are today's equivalent of yesteryear?

    It might be that the rise of AI-powered 'labour' will provide a wide-spread common problem and that 'Labour' will be able to engage with ways to enable a reasonable standard of living for ordinary people when human effort is no longer wanted.
    Indeed. There was a long article in the FT about the "death of the trucker" this week, as self driving trucks take over. This stuff isn't science fiction any more, it's happening right now

    http://wvxu.org/post/self-driving-vehicles-helping-move-ohios-economy#stream/0

    http://www.techrepublic.com/article/self-driving-trucks-3-new-startups-could-shape-the-future-of-trucking/

    There are 3.5m truck drivers in America, it's one of the last well-paid jobs for fairly uneducated people. Virtually all of these jobs will likely be gone in 5-10 years.

    And that's just one industry. There's gonna be millions and millions of unemployed people, across the West, and politicians don't seem to have a clue, or they haven't realised, or they are in denial.

    This revolution will transform political attitudes. 1. We will probably need a universal wage, and 2. Countries will need much much less immigration. The fewer people the better.

    The first party to seize on these truths will seize power, in time.
    "Where's the revolution?
    Come on people,
    You're letting me down!"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsCR05oKROA
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    rkrkrk said:

    Does anyone know how the police pull over a driverless car with no one inside?
    I'm sure someone has thought of this... Just intrigued as to what the solution is...

    driverless cars will no doubt require someone to be inside!
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926
    Omnium said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Does anyone know how the police pull over a driverless car with no one inside?
    I'm sure someone has thought of this... Just intrigued as to what the solution is...

    Well if they swerve in front then it'll stop.
    Yes, a driverless car should be fairly easy to stop actually.
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    Pulpstar said:

    Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !

    Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.
    Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908
    Pulpstar said:

    Omnium said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Does anyone know how the police pull over a driverless car with no one inside?
    I'm sure someone has thought of this... Just intrigued as to what the solution is...

    Well if they swerve in front then it'll stop.
    Yes, a driverless car should be fairly easy to stop actually.
    So driverless car on the freeway. Police car overtakes and then slows... Then the driverless car moves to overtake...

    Swerving in front doesn't sound very safe... And risks the car stopping somewhere you don't want it to? We want it on the hard shoulder... I think there will have to be some kind of police signal override button.
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    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869
    Pulpstar said:

    Omnium said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Does anyone know how the police pull over a driverless car with no one inside?
    I'm sure someone has thought of this... Just intrigued as to what the solution is...

    Well if they swerve in front then it'll stop.
    Yes, a driverless car should be fairly easy to stop actually.
    I foresee a role for human drivers when (say) kidnapping is a risk.
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    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,779

    Pulpstar said:

    Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !

    Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.
    Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.
    I'm not with you at all on Gibraltar, but selling Scotland to the EU could be a real winner.

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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    Pulpstar said:

    Looks like Theresa May's Brexit is between a rock and a hard place right now !

    Her plan is to be Mrs No for two years until the EU falls at her feet with a comprehensive trade agreement, the SNP give up in awed admiration, and the people reward her with a huge majority.
    Can't we just sell Gibraltar to the Spanish for £50bn (we have to offer to sell to them first). Keep £40bn for ourselves to offset Brexit and chuck the 32000 Gibraltarians £300K each. I'm sure the EU commission would be happy to give Spain the 50bn they need.
    It's interesting to find out what price you put on my life and freedom. Thanks.
    Do I get a say in the matter?
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,994
    rkrkrk said:

    Does anyone know how the police pull over a driverless car with no one inside?
    I'm sure someone has thought of this... Just intrigued as to what the solution is...

    That's an excellent question. Any system designed to allow it to happen will have to stop non-police from doing it. The following might be of interest:

    http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2016/06/why_police_might_pull_over_self_driving_cars.html

    I already wonder how easy it would be to spoof or dazzle the vision sensors of automated cars, yet alone other attacks.
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    rkrkrk said:

    Does anyone know how the police pull over a driverless car with no one inside?
    I'm sure someone has thought of this... Just intrigued as to what the solution is...

    driverless cars will no doubt require someone to be inside!
    Why would they require that?
    A natural extension of the technology would be for me to be driven somewhere and to send the car home or elsewhere - and then to be able to summon it again.
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