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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » French polling watchdog intervenes after Russian report that F

SystemSystem Posts: 11,015
edited April 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » French polling watchdog intervenes after Russian report that Fillon’s now ahead in polls

French polling watchdog issues warning after Russian news report claims Fillon regains lead. He's 3rd https://t.co/d4TLEo9qRk

Read the full story here


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  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,369
    edited April 2017
    Oh those Russians. Instead of waging war on Spain we should wage war on Russia.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    The odds, as I noted on the previous thread, do seem out of kilter with reality.
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    Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414

    Oh those Russians. Instead of waging war on Spain we should wage war on Russia.

    Remember Rule One on Page One of the Book of War!
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914
    On topic:

    I've laid the snot out of Fillon.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,952
    Second like...1/60th of a minute.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,952
    How do the French vote? Is it on paper or by machine?
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,020
    Fck me, my Ist post deleted! Are the Russkies now in charge?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914
    dixiedean said:

    How do the French vote? Is it on paper or by machine?

    For Macron, hopefully..
  • Options
    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    Which PB posters are under Russian control?

    Does Mike Smithson have security clearance?

    We should be told.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Mr. Rex, don't get involved in a land war with Russia?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914
    Most searched item about Fillon (In France) is his "costumes". They cost 13,000€ or some such.
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    Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414

    Mr. Rex, don't get involved in a land war with Russia?

    I think it was actually Do Not March on Moscow, but basically yes.
  • Options
    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    Oh those Russians. Instead of waging war on Spain we should wage war on Russia.


    Let's practice war on Spain first before taking on Russia.

    We could call on our Portugese allies, with whom we have never been at war.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914
    Melenchon is worth keeping onside at 48/50 btw, he has been rising and could benefit if Hamon drops further.

    Macron +++
    Melenchon +
    Le Pen -
    Fillon ---

    Is my assessment of the situation.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited April 2017
    FPS

    A review of Free Speech on University campuses:

    http://www.spiked-online.com/free-speech-university-rankings/results#.WOIIHVKQ2WY

    Doesn't make pretty reading....

    Unless of course it's Abu Hamza speaking about the virtues of segregated education or the IRA talking about the need for the armed struggle in which case I'm sure it makes very pretty reading
  • Options
    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    Oh those Russians. Instead of waging war on Spain we should wage war on Russia.

    Remember Rule One on Page One of the Book of War!

    The first casualty of war is the truth?

    OR

    The war plan has to be abandonned after the first shot is fired?
  • Options

    Which PB posters are under Russian control?

    Does Mike Smithson have security clearance?

    We should be told.

    Mike was invited and did attend an event at the Russian Embassy a couple of years ago.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,952
    Don't get this TBH. Vote for me I'm the Putin candidate must have limited appeal.
  • Options
    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    Which PB posters are under Russian control?

    Does Mike Smithson have security clearance?

    We should be told.

    Mike was invited and did attend an event at the Russian Embassy a couple of years ago.

    Mike Smithson, double agent 001?

    I await my ban.
  • Options
    Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414

    Which PB posters are under Russian control?

    Does Mike Smithson have security clearance?

    We should be told.

    Mike was invited and did attend an event at the Russian Embassy a couple of years ago.

    Mike Smithson, double agent 001?

    I await my ban.
    One lump of Polonium or two?
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,189
    I don't get this. Who's side is Russia on? I thought they wanted Le Pen to win. Or are they being clever by trying to engineer a Fillon v Le Pen final 2 in which Fillon is seen as the Russian candidate?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Good news!

    Trump is going to solve North Korea by himself:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39475178
  • Options
    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    Fck me, my Ist post deleted! Are the Russkies now in charge?


    The last post has more than one meaning. :)
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,369
    edited April 2017

    Which PB posters are under Russian control?

    Does Mike Smithson have security clearance?

    We should be told.

    Mike was invited and did attend an event at the Russian Embassy a couple of years ago.

    Mike Smithson, double agent 001?

    I await my ban.
    It gets worse, I was educated at an institution that had several Brits working for the KGB, in fact so did Robert.

    Actually it gets even worse, I think Mike also worked at Cambridge University too.
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    BudGBudG Posts: 711
    tlg86 said:

    I don't get this. Who's side is Russia on? I thought they wanted Le Pen to win. Or are they being clever by trying to engineer a Fillon v Le Pen final 2 in which Fillon is seen as the Russian candidate?

    Think Russia would be quite happy with either as President.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914

    Good news!

    Trump is going to solve North Korea by himself:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39475178

    As I've said before I think the US could well be justified in a first strike.

    I'm not particularly in favour of Trident by the way.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,709
    tlg86 said:

    I don't get this. Who's side is Russia on? I thought they wanted Le Pen to win. Or are they being clever by trying to engineer a Fillon v Le Pen final 2 in which Fillon is seen as the Russian candidate?

    Probably to exclude Macron from the second round and the presidency. They would be comfortable either with arch-Russophile Fillon or Le Pen. who is anti the EU Russia hates.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,188
    Meanwhile in UK, we have Soviet lovers as Opposition leader and his press team.

    Putin presumably likes their love of Russia but not too keen on the USSR angle?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Mr. Pulpstar, a first nuclear strike?

    That would be a... bold move.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,610

    Oh those Russians. Instead of waging war on Spain we should wage war on Russia.

    Remember Rule One on Page One of the Book of War!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAeqVGP-GPM
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,189
    FF43 said:

    tlg86 said:

    I don't get this. Who's side is Russia on? I thought they wanted Le Pen to win. Or are they being clever by trying to engineer a Fillon v Le Pen final 2 in which Fillon is seen as the Russian candidate?

    Probably to exclude Macron from the second round and the presidency. They would be comfortable either with arch-Russophile Fillon or Le Pen. who is anti the EU Russia hates.
    Well it's an odd way to go about it.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    Mr. Pulpstar, a first nuclear strike?

    That would be a... bold move.

    Say goodby to Seoul!
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,610
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    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    So now we know.

    Corbyn is a Russian placement - that went wrong.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914

    Meanwhile in UK, we have Soviet lovers as Opposition leader and his press team.

    Putin presumably likes their love of Russia but not too keen on the USSR angle?

    Not even Putin can get Corbyn elected.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    edited April 2017
    Previously, Mr Salmond in 2015 used the channel, described as a key part of Russia’s state-funded disinformation campaign, to attack the BBC as a “mouthpiece of Tory propaganda”.

    :D
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,149
    It is not beyond the bounds of possibility that there will be an attempt to influence the betting markets as well.
    That would be a generous gift to pb betters. In Robin Hanson's terminology markets work best when they have sheep to feed the wolves. In this case the Russians and anyone else trying to manipulate the market are the sheep, and you, dear readers, are the wolves.
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    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    Spain does at least have a consistent position on national self-determination. They are against it for the Basques, the Catalans, the Falkland Islanders and the Gibraltarians.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914
    Fillon out to 5.6/5.8

    The power of PB.com
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908
    edited April 2017



    That would be a generous gift to pb betters. In Robin Hanson's terminology markets work best when they have sheep to feed the wolves. In this case the Russians and anyone else trying to manipulate the market are the sheep, and you, dear readers, are the wolves.

    I think this happened with Ron Paul for president...
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,847
    Morning all :)

    Once again, this site turns into a subset of Twitter.

    In addition, while we debate pointlessly something that will never happen, the main news features something much worse which could well happen and that's a showdown between America and North Korea and that is something about which to be worried.

    Yes, it could be Howard-style sabre rattling from Trump in advance of Xi Jinping's visit to Washington (and that won't impress the Chinese one iota) but clearly Sino-American relations are affected to an extent by the status of North Korea.

    The status quo probably suits China fairly well and America to a degree and any change to that will ideally continue to be mutually beneficial. Clearly, Beijing would prefer a friendly regime in Pyongyang and that's understandable so we can probably forget about a re-unified Korea for now.

    Unilateral American action seems unwise but can't be ruled out - a multi-lateral approach perhaps with a view to overthrowing the Juche regime and replacing it with something that would still call itself Communist but be effectively a Beijing puppet could begin the de-escalation of tension along the Korean border. The Chinese aren't going to accept a pro-American and potentially hostile force along its border with Korea - they didn't before, why would they now ?

    It would be welcome if Washington and Beijing could then agree a joint rescue and recovery mission (perhaps under the UN) for the North Korean people whose suffering under the Juche movement has been as extreme as anything inflicted on human beings by other human beings since the end of WW2.

    Unfortunately, it seems the balance between China and America requires the North Korean people to continue to suffer.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Mr. Stodge, hard to see action, I think.

    The problem is that Kim Jong-un has the capability to launch an artillery barrage on Seoul, and probably would. Overt military action would be successful, ultimately, but there'd be a very heavy price to pay.

    If some leading generals could be got on-side, that might work (more internal coup than external invasion), but that's also fraught with risk.

    Or, the situation can simply be tolerated. It's somewhat volatile, though. And North Korea has widespread brutality, as well as a number of concentration camps.

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914
    Off topic: It's "Goodnight" from me. :(
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,052

    Spain does at least have a consistent position on national self-determination. They are against it for the Basques, the Catalans, the Falkland Islanders and the Gibraltarians.

    Since when do the Gibraltarians, or the Falklanders, or the Ceutans constitute a nation?
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    TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    edited April 2017

    Good news!

    Trump is going to solve North Korea by himself:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39475178

    A great man once said didn't say :

    “You can always count on the Americans Trump to do the right wrong thing after they have he hasn't tried every anything else.”
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,709
    tlg86 said:

    FF43 said:

    tlg86 said:

    I don't get this. Who's side is Russia on? I thought they wanted Le Pen to win. Or are they being clever by trying to engineer a Fillon v Le Pen final 2 in which Fillon is seen as the Russian candidate?

    Probably to exclude Macron from the second round and the presidency. They would be comfortable either with arch-Russophile Fillon or Le Pen. who is anti the EU Russia hates.
    Well it's an odd way to go about it.
    I don't know about odd, but ineffective, certainly. The first rule of spin is never become the story and let those you manipulate know you are doing it. Russia's great triumph was to get Trump elected, but in the process they made Russia so toxic as a meme they can't profit from it.
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,985
    Farron looks like he's about to burst into tears in just about every photo ever taken of him.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,547
    "Uber to shut down its business in Denmark
    Ride-hailing app blames new law and court ruling that it is an illegal taxi service"

    http://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/uber-to-shut-down-its-business-in-denmark-1.3027563
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,719

    Spain does at least have a consistent position on national self-determination. They are against it for the Basques, the Catalans, the Falkland Islanders and the Gibraltarians.

    Since when do the Gibraltarians, or the Falklanders, or the Ceutans constitute a nation?
    So who exactly is the arbiter of at what level or scale people are not allowed to self determine?

    I wonder what the Somalilianders think of this situation, being what appears to be a relatively stable nation which no one will recognise, which is a similar situation to being a discrete population by choice under another state. A few others like that, although most places are recognised as real countries by at least one other state.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,936

    Spain does at least have a consistent position on national self-determination. They are against it for the Basques, the Catalans, the Falkland Islanders and the Gibraltarians.

    Since when do the Gibraltarians, or the Falklanders, or the Ceutans constitute a nation?
    Says the man who spends so much time going on about how nations are pointless and evil and should be amalgamated into federations. You are in no position to talk about what does and does not constitute a nation.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,052

    Spain does at least have a consistent position on national self-determination. They are against it for the Basques, the Catalans, the Falkland Islanders and the Gibraltarians.

    Since when do the Gibraltarians, or the Falklanders, or the Ceutans constitute a nation?
    Says the man who spends so much time going on about how nations are pointless and evil and should be amalgamated into federations. You are in no position to talk about what does and does not constitute a nation.
    I would like to say it's unlike you to wilfully misrepresent my views, but sadly it wouldn't be true.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,149
    edited April 2017

    Spain does at least have a consistent position on national self-determination. They are against it for the Basques, the Catalans, the Falkland Islanders and the Gibraltarians.

    Since when do the Gibraltarians, or the Falklanders, or the Ceutans constitute a nation?
    Says the man who spends so much time going on about how nations are pointless and evil and should be amalgamated into federations. You are in no position to talk about what does and does not constitute a nation.
    You don't have to like something to know what it is.

    Also you can amalgamate national governments and still have nations. I can't remember where it was but there was some weird messed-up country somewhere that used to describe itself as "two nations under one crown".
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Sputnik, a French-language state-run Russian news agency reporting a social media survey by Moscow-based online research firm Brand Analytics, as a legit poll…! - #Busted.
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    Mr. Pulpstar, a first nuclear strike?

    That would be a... bold move.

    Meanwhile, closer to home.... "Civil servants acknowledged the atomic bomb plan could convert the tunnel into a mortar firing nuclear explosives into Kent and Calais, but reasoned it would be "100 per cent effective" at destroying our only physical link with France."

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/long_reads/hard-brexit-article-50-archives-britain-blow-up-channel-tunnel-nuclear-bomb-a7662711.html

    "The first reference found in the secret files to destruction using a nuclear bomb comes in November 1959 ..."

    I may have to change my description of Brexit to 1959 Mk.II rather than 1957 Mk.II :D
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,052

    Spain does at least have a consistent position on national self-determination. They are against it for the Basques, the Catalans, the Falkland Islanders and the Gibraltarians.

    Since when do the Gibraltarians, or the Falklanders, or the Ceutans constitute a nation?
    Says the man who spends so much time going on about how nations are pointless and evil and should be amalgamated into federations. You are in no position to talk about what does and does not constitute a nation.
    You don't have to like something to know what it is.

    Also you can amalgamate national governments and still have nations. I can't remember where it was but there was some weird messed-up country somewhere that used to describe itself as "two nations under one crown".
    The current version from Theresa May is "four nations, one people".
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    Which PB posters are under Russian control?

    Does Mike Smithson have security clearance?

    We should be told.

    Mike was invited and did attend an event at the Russian Embassy a couple of years ago.

    Mike Smithson, double agent 001?

    I await my ban.
    I think you mean Mikhailovitch Smithzonova.
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    walterwwalterw Posts: 71
    @dixiedean

    .How do the French vote? Is it on paper or by machine?'

    Paper ballots

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914

    Mr. Pulpstar, a first nuclear strike?

    That would be a... bold move.

    Meanwhile, closer to home.... "Civil servants acknowledged the atomic bomb plan could convert the tunnel into a mortar firing nuclear explosives into Kent and Calais, but reasoned it would be "100 per cent effective" at destroying our only physical link with France."

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/long_reads/hard-brexit-article-50-archives-britain-blow-up-channel-tunnel-nuclear-bomb-a7662711.html

    "The first reference found in the secret files to destruction using a nuclear bomb comes in November 1959 ..."

    I may have to change my description of Brexit to 1959 Mk.II rather than 1957 Mk.II :D
    Michael Howard wants to party like it's 1796.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    Spain does at least have a consistent position on national self-determination. They are against it for the Basques, the Catalans, the Falkland Islanders and the Gibraltarians.

    Since when do the Gibraltarians, or the Falklanders, or the Ceutans constitute a nation?
    What - you mean they're like Scotland?
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    SeanT said:

    I said that asylum-seeker attack story in Croydon was a bit odd, time and again. No description of white skinhead perps at all?

    Oh.


    http://news.sky.com/story/police-release-images-of-three-wanted-over-croydon-asylum-seeker-attack-10823141

    They're black. We await Diane Abbott's pronunciamento.

    Don't be silly Sean - there is no mention of it being anything other than "brutal" on the BBC..

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39479476
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    edited April 2017
    felix said:

    Which PB posters are under Russian control?

    Does Mike Smithson have security clearance?

    We should be told.

    Mike was invited and did attend an event at the Russian Embassy a couple of years ago.

    Mike Smithson, double agent 001?

    I await my ban.
    I think you mean Mikhailovitch Smithzonova.
    Smithzonova - Mike has undergone a gender change?
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,052
    felix said:

    Spain does at least have a consistent position on national self-determination. They are against it for the Basques, the Catalans, the Falkland Islanders and the Gibraltarians.

    Since when do the Gibraltarians, or the Falklanders, or the Ceutans constitute a nation?
    What - you mean they're like Scotland?
    No less an authority than Theresa May says Scotland is a nation, and she's not a woman to argue with.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,936

    Which PB posters are under Russian control?

    Does Mike Smithson have security clearance?

    We should be told.

    Mike was invited and did attend an event at the Russian Embassy a couple of years ago.

    Mike Smithson, double agent 001?

    I await my ban.
    It gets worse, I was educated at an institution that had several Brits working for the KGB, in fact so did Robert.

    Actually it gets even worse, I think Mike also worked at Cambridge University too.
    You all have my sympathies. Forever in the shadow of the better University at Oxford. It must be difficult for you. :)
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    felix said:

    Spain does at least have a consistent position on national self-determination. They are against it for the Basques, the Catalans, the Falkland Islanders and the Gibraltarians.

    Since when do the Gibraltarians, or the Falklanders, or the Ceutans constitute a nation?
    What - you mean they're like Scotland?
    No less an authority than Theresa May says Scotland is a nation, and she's not a woman to argue with.
    Indeed. She will send a gunboat.

    The Brexiteers will no doubt be telling us that they will invade Scotland in order to protect Scotland from the belligerent Scots.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,020
    felix said:

    Spain does at least have a consistent position on national self-determination. They are against it for the Basques, the Catalans, the Falkland Islanders and the Gibraltarians.

    Since when do the Gibraltarians, or the Falklanders, or the Ceutans constitute a nation?
    What - you mean they're like Scotland?
    Or England?
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Which PB posters are under Russian control?

    Does Mike Smithson have security clearance?

    We should be told.

    Mike was invited and did attend an event at the Russian Embassy a couple of years ago.

    Mike Smithson, double agent 001?

    I await my ban.
    It gets worse, I was educated at an institution that had several Brits working for the KGB, in fact so did Robert.

    Actually it gets even worse, I think Mike also worked at Cambridge University too.
    You all have my sympathies. Forever in the shadow of the better University at Oxford. It must be difficult for you. :)
    Weren't the Oxford spies rounded up before the snow on their boots had even melted?
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    felix said:

    Spain does at least have a consistent position on national self-determination. They are against it for the Basques, the Catalans, the Falkland Islanders and the Gibraltarians.

    Since when do the Gibraltarians, or the Falklanders, or the Ceutans constitute a nation?
    What - you mean they're like Scotland?
    No less an authority than Theresa May says Scotland is a nation, and she's not a woman to argue with.
    Indeed. She will send a gunboat.

    The Brexiteers will no doubt be telling us that they will invade Scotland in order to protect Scotland from the belligerent Scots.
    Difference between Gibraltar and Scotland is that a far far higher % of Gibraltarian's seem mature enough to be able to accept the results of democratic referendums.

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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    Russian interference in France, Russian interference in the US. Makes you ask questions about the Brexit vote. Looking back, I can't think of any instance where it might have happened but then pre-Hillarygate, were we watching for it? It would certainly have been a vote Russia would have had an interest in targeting.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    Oh those Russians. Instead of waging war on Spain we should wage war on Russia.

    Remember Rule One on Page One of the Book of War!
    Keep it in the Crimea?
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    Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,599
    Pulpstar said:

    Melenchon is worth keeping onside at 48/50 btw, he has been rising and could benefit if Hamon drops further.

    Macron +++
    Melenchon +
    Le Pen -
    Fillon ---

    Is my assessment of the situation.

    Melenchon is potentially a threat to Macron. It seems plausible that, so far, the absence of a challenger from the left with any prospects has prompted some on the left to declare for Macron in the first round on a pragmatic basis, to ensure that there is at least one non-right wing candidate in the second round.

    That means though that there is some potential for things to unwind for Macron if a challenger from the left does emerge. It's quite plausible now to see Melenchon's surge continuing as people give up on Hamon. So support on the left consolidates around Melenchon, so that Hamon declines into single figures allowing Melenchon to consistently poll in the high teens. At that point, there is the prospect of Melenchon adding a couple of % more from Macron to get him into the bottom 20s, at Macron's expense. At that point we have effectively a three way contest for who is to join Le Pen in the second round - Macron, Fillon or Melenchon.

    Meanwhile the Russian poll is bunkum and could quite easily help Macron by identifying Fillon as the Kremlin's candidate.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,020
    edited April 2017
    SeanT said:

    I said that asylum-seeker attack story in Croydon was a bit odd, time and again. No description of white skinhead perps at all?

    Oh.


    http://news.sky.com/story/police-release-images-of-three-wanted-over-croydon-asylum-seeker-attack-10823141

    They're black. We await Diane Abbott's pronunciamento.

    Heartwarming that England is now capable of multi racial attacks on asylum seekers. It's certainly a start in Tessy's aim to 'bring Britain together'.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,936

    Spain does at least have a consistent position on national self-determination. They are against it for the Basques, the Catalans, the Falkland Islanders and the Gibraltarians.

    Since when do the Gibraltarians, or the Falklanders, or the Ceutans constitute a nation?
    Says the man who spends so much time going on about how nations are pointless and evil and should be amalgamated into federations. You are in no position to talk about what does and does not constitute a nation.
    I would like to say it's unlike you to wilfully misrepresent my views, but sadly it wouldn't be true.
    Not at all. You have made your views very clear on here time and time again. Or maybe I was being too generous... maybe it is just one particular nation you dislike and all the others are fine in your eyes?
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    TGOHF said:

    felix said:

    Spain does at least have a consistent position on national self-determination. They are against it for the Basques, the Catalans, the Falkland Islanders and the Gibraltarians.

    Since when do the Gibraltarians, or the Falklanders, or the Ceutans constitute a nation?
    What - you mean they're like Scotland?
    No less an authority than Theresa May says Scotland is a nation, and she's not a woman to argue with.
    Indeed. She will send a gunboat.

    The Brexiteers will no doubt be telling us that they will invade Scotland in order to protect Scotland from the belligerent Scots.
    Difference between Gibraltar and Scotland is that a far far higher % of Gibraltarian's seem mature enough to be able to accept the results of democratic referendums.

    You might say that, I could not possibly comment ;)
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    Once again, this site turns into a subset of Twitter.

    In addition, while we debate pointlessly something that will never happen, the main news features something much worse which could well happen and that's a showdown between America and North Korea and that is something about which to be worried.

    Yes, it could be Howard-style sabre rattling from Trump in advance of Xi Jinping's visit to Washington (and that won't impress the Chinese one iota) but clearly Sino-American relations are affected to an extent by the status of North Korea.

    The status quo probably suits China fairly well and America to a degree and any change to that will ideally continue to be mutually beneficial. Clearly, Beijing would prefer a friendly regime in Pyongyang and that's understandable so we can probably forget about a re-unified Korea for now.

    Unilateral American action seems unwise but can't be ruled out - a multi-lateral approach perhaps with a view to overthrowing the Juche regime and replacing it with something that would still call itself Communist but be effectively a Beijing puppet could begin the de-escalation of tension along the Korean border. The Chinese aren't going to accept a pro-American and potentially hostile force along its border with Korea - they didn't before, why would they now ?

    It would be welcome if Washington and Beijing could then agree a joint rescue and recovery mission (perhaps under the UN) for the North Korean people whose suffering under the Juche movement has been as extreme as anything inflicted on human beings by other human beings since the end of WW2.

    Unfortunately, it seems the balance between China and America requires the North Korean people to continue to suffer.

    The stronger China gets, the less need it has for North Korea as a buffer state. The two could reunify under the South and Korea would still end up within the Chinese orbit; that's just a question of geography. Besides, a reunification would keep Korea busy for decades.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    Mr. Pulpstar, a first nuclear strike?

    That would be a... bold move.

    Meanwhile, closer to home.... "Civil servants acknowledged the atomic bomb plan could convert the tunnel into a mortar firing nuclear explosives into Kent and Calais, but reasoned it would be "100 per cent effective" at destroying our only physical link with France."

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/long_reads/hard-brexit-article-50-archives-britain-blow-up-channel-tunnel-nuclear-bomb-a7662711.html

    "The first reference found in the secret files to destruction using a nuclear bomb comes in November 1959 ..."

    I may have to change my description of Brexit to 1959 Mk.II rather than 1957 Mk.II :D
    Asked whether the building of the current Channel Tunnel involved plans for disabling it in the event of an invasion, a Eurotunnel spokesman said: “There has always been a military aspect to it, but I cannot give any further insight into what plans may or may not exist.”

    Interesting...
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,719
    If we're discussing rules of war, someone remember to update GeoffM before he plots the next move after the fall of Andalusia.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    Pulpstar said:

    Melenchon is worth keeping onside at 48/50 btw, he has been rising and could benefit if Hamon drops further.

    Macron +++
    Melenchon +
    Le Pen -
    Fillon ---

    Is my assessment of the situation.

    Melenchon is potentially a threat to Macron. It seems plausible that, so far, the absence of a challenger from the left with any prospects has prompted some on the left to declare for Macron in the first round on a pragmatic basis, to ensure that there is at least one non-right wing candidate in the second round.

    That means though that there is some potential for things to unwind for Macron if a challenger from the left does emerge. It's quite plausible now to see Melenchon's surge continuing as people give up on Hamon. So support on the left consolidates around Melenchon, so that Hamon declines into single figures allowing Melenchon to consistently poll in the high teens. At that point, there is the prospect of Melenchon adding a couple of % more from Macron to get him into the bottom 20s, at Macron's expense. At that point we have effectively a three way contest for who is to join Le Pen in the second round - Macron, Fillon or Melenchon.

    Meanwhile the Russian poll is bunkum and could quite easily help Macron by identifying Fillon as the Kremlin's candidate.
    That does rely on, as you put it, "[first round] support on the left consolidat[ing]" at all, which would be an event unusual in France.

    Never underestimate the ability of the French left to lose elections.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Mr. D, surely the military aspect of the Channel Tunnel is an escape route for the French Government the next time Germany invades?
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited April 2017
    SeanT said:

    I said that asylum-seeker attack story in Croydon was a bit odd, time and again. No description of white skinhead perps at all?

    Oh.


    http://news.sky.com/story/police-release-images-of-three-wanted-over-croydon-asylum-seeker-attack-10823141

    They're black. We await Diane Abbott's pronunciamento.

    As I hinted this morning the pub the attackers were drinking not only has a reputation as a den of criminality and violence, where there has been frequent trouble including the police been attacked, it is the local Zambian "community centre " who put on weekly African music events.

    Not exactly a place where you would expect to see Britain First holding a meeting.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,020
    RobD said:

    Mr. Pulpstar, a first nuclear strike?

    That would be a... bold move.

    Meanwhile, closer to home.... "Civil servants acknowledged the atomic bomb plan could convert the tunnel into a mortar firing nuclear explosives into Kent and Calais, but reasoned it would be "100 per cent effective" at destroying our only physical link with France."

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/long_reads/hard-brexit-article-50-archives-britain-blow-up-channel-tunnel-nuclear-bomb-a7662711.html

    "The first reference found in the secret files to destruction using a nuclear bomb comes in November 1959 ..."

    I may have to change my description of Brexit to 1959 Mk.II rather than 1957 Mk.II :D
    Asked whether the building of the current Channel Tunnel involved plans for disabling it in the event of an invasion, a Eurotunnel spokesman said: “There has always been a military aspect to it, but I cannot give any further insight into what plans may or may not exist.”

    Interesting...
    Presumably a goods wagon full of HE would be sufficient.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,922
    Good economic news from the Eurozone:
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2017/apr/03/markets-manufacturing-recovery-uk-factories-eurozone-unemployment-business-live?page=with:block-58e20132e4b01ea2330beb4e#block-58e20132e4b01ea2330beb4e
    Unemployment is falling too.
    With our biggest export market doing so well, it's no surprise we are too, I guess.
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    SeanT said:

    I said that asylum-seeker attack story in Croydon was a bit odd, time and again. No description of white skinhead perps at all?

    Oh.


    http://news.sky.com/story/police-release-images-of-three-wanted-over-croydon-asylum-seeker-attack-10823141

    They're black. We await Diane Abbott's pronunciamento.

    You may also note the weekend news that 7 men have been arrested in Oxford on counts of rape and sexual assault on girls as young as 12 over a period of years. No mention of their race however. I wonder why.
  • Options
    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    That does rely on, as you put it, "[first round] support on the left consolidat[ing]" at all, which would be an event unusual in France.

    Never underestimate the ability of the French left to lose elections.

    Our own left is not doing too brilliantly at the moment :D
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    In other news...

    A Somalian asylum seeker has been charged with raping two disabled men in a care home and murdering one of their wives in Germany.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4374836/Somalian-asylum-seeker-rapes-two-elderly-disabled-men.html
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    SeanT said:

    I said that asylum-seeker attack story in Croydon was a bit odd, time and again. No description of white skinhead perps at all?

    Oh.


    http://news.sky.com/story/police-release-images-of-three-wanted-over-croydon-asylum-seeker-attack-10823141

    They're black. We await Diane Abbott's pronunciamento.

    Heartwarming that England is now capable of multi racial attacks on asylum seekers. It's certainly a start in Tessy's aim to 'bring Britain together'.
    Yes - all sorts of oppressed minorities are under constant threat down here

    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/dad-five-branded-racist-fined-10137782

    "A dad-of-five has been branded a racist and banned from attending football matches for three years after calling a Scottish steward a "teuchter"."
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    felix said:

    Which PB posters are under Russian control?

    Does Mike Smithson have security clearance?

    We should be told.

    Mike was invited and did attend an event at the Russian Embassy a couple of years ago.

    Mike Smithson, double agent 001?

    I await my ban.
    I think you mean Mikhailovitch Smithzonova.
    Smithzonova - Mike has undergone a gender change?
    Yes - in her younger years she was prima ballerina assoluta at the little known Bolshie ballet.
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,936

    RobD said:

    Mr. Pulpstar, a first nuclear strike?

    That would be a... bold move.

    Meanwhile, closer to home.... "Civil servants acknowledged the atomic bomb plan could convert the tunnel into a mortar firing nuclear explosives into Kent and Calais, but reasoned it would be "100 per cent effective" at destroying our only physical link with France."

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/long_reads/hard-brexit-article-50-archives-britain-blow-up-channel-tunnel-nuclear-bomb-a7662711.html

    "The first reference found in the secret files to destruction using a nuclear bomb comes in November 1959 ..."

    I may have to change my description of Brexit to 1959 Mk.II rather than 1957 Mk.II :D
    Asked whether the building of the current Channel Tunnel involved plans for disabling it in the event of an invasion, a Eurotunnel spokesman said: “There has always been a military aspect to it, but I cannot give any further insight into what plans may or may not exist.”

    Interesting...
    Presumably a goods wagon full of HE would be sufficient.
    Not sure. The tunnel is built well below the sea floor - about 150ft as I remember - so it would not necessarily be a simple job to collapse it. I assume that some security arrangements were put in place for this along the lines used on Swiss tunnels and mountain passes. Not that I advocating it of course. I am rather fond of the Channel Tunnel.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    felix said:

    Spain does at least have a consistent position on national self-determination. They are against it for the Basques, the Catalans, the Falkland Islanders and the Gibraltarians.

    Since when do the Gibraltarians, or the Falklanders, or the Ceutans constitute a nation?
    What - you mean they're like Scotland?
    No less an authority than Theresa May says Scotland is a nation, and she's not a woman to argue with.
    She's just being nice to perk up the krankie.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914

    In other news...

    A Somalian asylum seeker has been charged with raping two disabled men in a care home and murdering one of their wives in Germany.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4374836/Somalian-asylum-seeker-rapes-two-elderly-disabled-men.html

    I'd love to hear how Brexit will solve any of this nonsense though :p
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,936

    Good economic news from the Eurozone:
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2017/apr/03/markets-manufacturing-recovery-uk-factories-eurozone-unemployment-business-live?page=with:block-58e20132e4b01ea2330beb4e#block-58e20132e4b01ea2330beb4e
    Unemployment is falling too.
    With our biggest export market doing so well, it's no surprise we are too, I guess.

    I think you might have the cart before the horse there.
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    Patrick said:

    SeanT said:

    I said that asylum-seeker attack story in Croydon was a bit odd, time and again. No description of white skinhead perps at all?

    Oh.


    http://news.sky.com/story/police-release-images-of-three-wanted-over-croydon-asylum-seeker-attack-10823141

    They're black. We await Diane Abbott's pronunciamento.

    You may also note the weekend news that 7 men have been arrested in Oxford on counts of rape and sexual assault on girls as young as 12 over a period of years. No mention of their race however. I wonder why.
    But...if you dig into the news online it turns out that the 7 are: Shabir Dogar, 22; Shabaz Khan, 23; Shohab Dogar, 23; Yasin Hamid, 20; Usman Iddris, 22; and Joseph Suraina, 22. and Waqas Hussain, 24, of no fixed abode
    If this country is experiencing a wave of organised rape by Asian men on white British underage girls is it helpful really to not report properly? Should the TV and radio talking heads have said nothing at all about the actually important angle of the case? Or is this just too socially difficult / just don't go there territory? There is a simple way for us to fight Islamic nutters and their mindset - just enforce the law and report it openly.

  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Pulpstar said:

    In other news...

    A Somalian asylum seeker has been charged with raping two disabled men in a care home and murdering one of their wives in Germany.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4374836/Somalian-asylum-seeker-rapes-two-elderly-disabled-men.html

    I'd love to hear how Brexit will solve any of this nonsense though :p
    Miscreants like this will have to stay with a burgandy passport and will not be allowed a spiffing navy one.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Mr. Patrick, there wasn't much coverage given to the Banbury case a week or so ago either.

  • Options

    RobD said:

    Mr. Pulpstar, a first nuclear strike?

    That would be a... bold move.

    Meanwhile, closer to home.... "Civil servants acknowledged the atomic bomb plan could convert the tunnel into a mortar firing nuclear explosives into Kent and Calais, but reasoned it would be "100 per cent effective" at destroying our only physical link with France."

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/long_reads/hard-brexit-article-50-archives-britain-blow-up-channel-tunnel-nuclear-bomb-a7662711.html

    "The first reference found in the secret files to destruction using a nuclear bomb comes in November 1959 ..."

    I may have to change my description of Brexit to 1959 Mk.II rather than 1957 Mk.II :D
    Asked whether the building of the current Channel Tunnel involved plans for disabling it in the event of an invasion, a Eurotunnel spokesman said: “There has always been a military aspect to it, but I cannot give any further insight into what plans may or may not exist.”

    Interesting...
    Presumably a goods wagon full of HE would be sufficient.
    Not sure. The tunnel is built well below the sea floor - about 150ft as I remember - so it would not necessarily be a simple job to collapse it. I assume that some security arrangements were put in place for this along the lines used on Swiss tunnels and mountain passes. Not that I advocating it of course. I am rather fond of the Channel Tunnel.
    If you got a block of HE about the size of a crate, shaped it into a thick cone (open end upwards) and lined the inside of the cone with copper 1cm thick then you'd have just built yourself a gigantic armour penetrator. Think RPG x1,000. That would penetrate all the way up to the sea and flood the tunnel.
  • Options
    BudGBudG Posts: 711

    Pulpstar said:

    Melenchon is worth keeping onside at 48/50 btw, he has been rising and could benefit if Hamon drops further.

    Macron +++
    Melenchon +
    Le Pen -
    Fillon ---

    Is my assessment of the situation.

    Melenchon is potentially a threat to Macron. It seems plausible that, so far, the absence of a challenger from the left with any prospects has prompted some on the left to declare for Macron in the first round on a pragmatic basis, to ensure that there is at least one non-right wing candidate in the second round.

    That means though that there is some potential for things to unwind for Macron if a challenger from the left does emerge. It's quite plausible now to see Melenchon's surge continuing as people give up on Hamon. So support on the left consolidates around Melenchon, so that Hamon declines into single figures allowing Melenchon to consistently poll in the high teens. At that point, there is the prospect of Melenchon adding a couple of % more from Macron to get him into the bottom 20s, at Macron's expense. At that point we have effectively a three way contest for who is to join Le Pen in the second round - Macron, Fillon or Melenchon.

    Meanwhile the Russian poll is bunkum and could quite easily help Macron by identifying Fillon as the Kremlin's candidate.
    That is a very plausible scenario. The higher Melenchon rises in the polls, the more likely others will switch to him, because up until now, a lot will have seen a vote for Melenchon as a wasted vote.

    And given that Melenchon's surge came on the back of the last tv debate and we are on the eve of another tv debate, Melenchon is certainly one to keep very much onside. If he can go level with or even overtake Fillon in just one (non Russian) poll, then the resultant media publicity will see his odds crash.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,719
    TGOHF said:

    SeanT said:

    I said that asylum-seeker attack story in Croydon was a bit odd, time and again. No description of white skinhead perps at all?

    Oh.


    http://news.sky.com/story/police-release-images-of-three-wanted-over-croydon-asylum-seeker-attack-10823141

    They're black. We await Diane Abbott's pronunciamento.

    Heartwarming that England is now capable of multi racial attacks on asylum seekers. It's certainly a start in Tessy's aim to 'bring Britain together'.
    Yes - all sorts of oppressed minorities are under constant threat down here

    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/dad-five-branded-racist-fined-10137782

    "A dad-of-five has been branded a racist and banned from attending football matches for three years after calling a Scottish steward a "teuchter"."
    Teuchter? I'm not familiar with that one, I must say.
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    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,203

    felix said:

    Which PB posters are under Russian control?

    Does Mike Smithson have security clearance?

    We should be told.

    Mike was invited and did attend an event at the Russian Embassy a couple of years ago.

    Mike Smithson, double agent 001?

    I await my ban.
    I think you mean Mikhailovitch Smithzonova.
    Smithzonova - Mike has undergone a gender change?
    Think the Czech translation would be Cmítsonová. There isn't really a 'th' sound.
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,709
    dixiedean said:

    Don't get this TBH. Vote for me I'm the Putin candidate must have limited appeal.

    Worked for Trump.
This discussion has been closed.