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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Next month’s Super Mayoral elections – the starting points for

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited April 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Next month’s Super Mayoral elections – the starting points for the parties

In a month’s time we see the first elections for the Mayors of the 6 new combined authorities in England.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • I wonder what Ken Livingstone thinks of The Edict of Expulsion?

    That King Edward I was a Zionist.
  • We'll find out if Jez is electoral Kryptonite.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Ha! I posted first again, it was briefly there then disappeared. TSE tampering? We need an ICC investigation!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    FPT...

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    Comedians Marcus Brigstock and Stewart Lee talk of audience members walking out of shows after anti Brexit jokes outside of London
    https://mobile.twitter.com/GetBritainOut/status/849577374815539201

    Aren't those Leavers seeing the wrong type of comedians? Surely Jim Davidson would be more up their street.
    It is a bit curious, heading off to see Stewart Lee and getting offended by some anti anti-immigration quips is a bit like seeing Chubby and expecting a politically correct sketch.
    It's probably a question of both of balance, and how funny it was?

    I consider myself to have a good sense of humour, and can see the funny side of almost anything. But I went to a Chris Addison show in Cambridge once when he spent 15 minutes being extremely rude about The Queen, where I almost walked out (my wife restrained me).

    Now, I admit I am a monarchist, and respect The Queen, but I am open to humour from a Republican point of view. But when he lazily insults her as a "German Nazi b*tch" for laughs, and similar, without putting any creativity or satire into it, it's not surprising if after a time you don't particularly want to sit through it anymore if it's just become a humourless rant.

    Audiences are, after all, paying to be entertained. They don't like to be hectored, lectured or for their intelligence to be consistently insulted.

    But the worst crime is when it just isn't very funny.
    I have seen him live as well...once...never again....

    Mark Thomas on the other hand...proppa leftie...actually funny.

    Ross Noble handled the whole Brexit thing the best when I saw him. Started doing some gags about Brexit, realized that he appeared to be talking to an audience of Brexit voters, and made jokes about it all being rather awkward.
    A true comedian can get those who vehemently disagree with them to see the funny side and laugh along, even when they don't really want to.
    I should add that Mark Thomas' BRAVO FIGARO! is incredibly raw and touching while also being very funny.

    Talking about his abuse opera loving father, whose politics he vehemently disagrees with, but develops progressive supranuclear palsy and dementia. It doesn't sound like it should contain any laughs at all, but it is IMO his best show.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,954
    MTimT said:

    Ha! I posted first again, it was briefly there then disappeared. TSE tampering? We need an ICC investigation!

    How about a judge-led independent inquiry? :D
  • MTimT said:

    Ha! I posted first again, it was briefly there then disappeared. TSE tampering? We need an ICC investigation!

    It's one of those Vanilla quirks. The comments here.

    http://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/discussion/4715/politicalbetting-com-blog-archive-next-month-s-super-mayoral-elections-the-starting-points-for#latest
  • Tell me, where is the Tess Valley ? ;-)
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,954

    MTimT said:

    Ha! I posted first again, it was briefly there then disappeared. TSE tampering? We need an ICC investigation!

    It's one of those Vanilla quirks. The comments here.

    http://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/discussion/4715/politicalbetting-com-blog-archive-next-month-s-super-mayoral-elections-the-starting-points-for#latest
    Sure.... :smiley:
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    RobD said:

    MTimT said:

    Ha! I posted first again, it was briefly there then disappeared. TSE tampering? We need an ICC investigation!

    It's one of those Vanilla quirks. The comments here.

    http://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/discussion/4715/politicalbetting-com-blog-archive-next-month-s-super-mayoral-elections-the-starting-points-for#latest
    Sure.... :smiley:
    Vanilla seems to be full of these quirks....like the one where some posters keep losing the ability to post and have to create 100 different accounts in order to keep being able to get on the site ;-)
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,954

    RobD said:

    MTimT said:

    Ha! I posted first again, it was briefly there then disappeared. TSE tampering? We need an ICC investigation!

    It's one of those Vanilla quirks. The comments here.

    http://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/discussion/4715/politicalbetting-com-blog-archive-next-month-s-super-mayoral-elections-the-starting-points-for#latest
    Sure.... :smiley:
    Vanilla seems to be full of these quirks....like the one where some posters keep losing the ability to post and have to create 100 different accounts in order to keep being able to get on the site ;-)
    titters....
  • glwglw Posts: 9,549

    I wonder what Ken Livingstone thinks of The Edict of Expulsion?

    That King Edward I was a Zionist.

    When some BNP toerag is ranting about "sending them back to where they came from" presumably they will now be able to claim they aren't racist but merely wanting to encourage the economic development of Sub-Saharan Africa.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,223
    Hmm. I kind of see Pulpstar's point about the West Midlands now.

    Could there be a c.10% swing from Labour to Tory there?

    Possible. But it would be a sea change.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    It would be an amazing result, but not completely inconceivable, if Tees and West Midland/Brum fell to the Tories. The icing on the cake would be if the LDs could nab one of Liverpool/Manchester.

    I have stopped asking myself would Corbyn survive such a disaster. He is too thick and dishonourable to resign, and those MPs formerly known as the Labour Party are too spineless to challenge him yet again and too incompetent to succeed even if they did.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    Tell me, where is the Tess Valley ? ;-)

    Don't be rude.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,874
    edited April 2017
    FPT

    RobDRobD Posts: 22,872
    1:08PM
    Pulpstar said:
    » show previous quotes
    Knock one up :>
    Blimey, that word cloud! Let me third the idea that these tweets would make an excellent thread.
    Flag Quote · Off Topic

    Look at the polling on immigration for the last 50 years. The public never wanted it, but both Labour and Tory govts ignored them and there was no one else to vote for. Then UKIP get 13% from nowhere w less than half a dozen non maniac politicians? Then the voters get to vote on an issue that can be framed as a referendum on immigration? Quelle surprise, the majority vote for control
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,887
    Labour are doing badly, but Andy Street is simply not a 1-2 chance for the West Midlands Mayoralty.
    Liverpool City region looks good at 1-10 Labour for my money too.

    Tees Valley more vulnerable than I'd assumed. If W Mids goes blue I'd be extremely surprised if Labour hold Tees.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,175

    I wonder what Ken Livingstone thinks of The Edict of Expulsion?

    That King Edward I was a Zionist.

    Oliver Cromwell, on the other hand...
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    Hmm. I kind of see Pulpstar's point about the West Midlands now.

    Could there be a c.10% swing from Labour to Tory there?

    Possible. But it would be a sea change.

    The raw Midlands swing is currently about 8%. Add in the candidate factor and yes, Con could do it. Transfers will obviously come into play but may well be close to canceling each other out.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Are the dates of the 'most recent local elections' the same for the various areas, and when were they?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2017
    Sweden's Prime Minister has branded an Islamic school 'disgusting' for segregating children as young as six by their gender.

    An undercover video captured girls at a private Islamic school in Stockholm being directed to the back door of a school bus while boys used the front door.

    The country's leader Stefan Lofven said Tuesday 'it does not belong in Sweden' to have primary schools dividing children, aged between 6 and 10, by gender.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4382158/Swedish-PM-brands-segregating-Islamic-school-disgusting.html

    The head of the school...

    'It is important to point out that the staff is not driven by religion but a passion to work with cultural and integration issues.

    Does this guy also moonlight working in PR department of Cadbury's or National Trust?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,887

    Hmm. I kind of see Pulpstar's point about the West Midlands now.

    Could there be a c.10% swing from Labour to Tory there?

    Possible. But it would be a sea change.

    I reckon some people are thinking of the west Midlands as in all of the western Midlands.

    Kenilworth, Leamington, Stratford, Worcester, Shropshire and all the other charming blue surrounds aren't in this contest.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,887

    Are the dates of the 'most recent local elections' the same for the various areas, and when were they?

    For the West Midlands region they were all 2016.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Pulpstar said:

    Are the dates of the 'most recent local elections' the same for the various areas, and when were they?

    For the West Midlands region they were all 2016.
    So Corbyn is already fully in the price.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    MTimT said:

    It would be an amazing result, but not completely inconceivable, if Tees and West Midland/Brum fell to the Tories. The icing on the cake would be if the LDs could nab one of Liverpool/Manchester.

    I have stopped asking myself would Corbyn survive such a disaster. He is too thick and dishonourable to resign, and those MPs formerly known as the Labour Party are too spineless to challenge him yet again and too incompetent to succeed even if they did.

    There is no hope whatsoever of the LDs taking either Gtr Manchester or Gtr Liverpool: they are simply too big and the Lib Dems have too little base. Liverpool will be an easy Labour win but if Manchester is close - and there is a small chance it might be - it'll be Blue rather than Yellow challenging. The Lib Dems will, with good reason, concentrate on (1) Gorton and (2) winnable council wards.

    Remember: the biggest single election the Lib Dems / Liberals have won in the last 100 years is Devon County Council. Winning a big metro-mayorality would be a step change in a good year, never mind when still at only 10-12% in the polls.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,887

    Hmm. I kind of see Pulpstar's point about the West Midlands now.

    Could there be a c.10% swing from Labour to Tory there?

    Possible. But it would be a sea change.

    The raw Midlands swing is currently about 8%. Add in the candidate factor and yes, Con could do it. Transfers will obviously come into play but may well be close to canceling each other out.
    The swing in this area is going to be less than the overall Midlands swing I think.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    Pulpstar said:

    Are the dates of the 'most recent local elections' the same for the various areas, and when were they?

    For the West Midlands region they were all 2016.
    So Corbyn is already fully in the price.
    Yes, but so was a Tory civil war over Brexit.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    Pulpstar said:

    Are the dates of the 'most recent local elections' the same for the various areas, and when were they?

    For the West Midlands region they were all 2016.
    So Corbyn is already fully in the price.
    Yes, but so was a Tory civil war over Brexit.
    Good point.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    MTimT said:

    It would be an amazing result, but not completely inconceivable, if Tees and West Midland/Brum fell to the Tories. The icing on the cake would be if the LDs could nab one of Liverpool/Manchester.

    I have stopped asking myself would Corbyn survive such a disaster. He is too thick and dishonourable to resign, and those MPs formerly known as the Labour Party are too spineless to challenge him yet again and too incompetent to succeed even if they did.

    There is no hope whatsoever of the LDs taking either Gtr Manchester or Gtr Liverpool: they are simply too big and the Lib Dems have too little base. Liverpool will be an easy Labour win but if Manchester is close - and there is a small chance it might be - it'll be Blue rather than Yellow challenging. The Lib Dems will, with good reason, concentrate on (1) Gorton and (2) winnable council wards.

    Remember: the biggest single election the Lib Dems / Liberals have won in the last 100 years is Devon County Council. Winning a big metro-mayorality would be a step change in a good year, never mind when still at only 10-12% in the polls.
    Thanks for the reality check.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    Tell me, where is the Tess Valley ? ;-)

    Don't be rude.

    With the trajectory of the Labour Party, maybe they will all be Tess' Valleys soon.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,887
    Is there some joke about Tess Valleys I'm unaware of ?
    One of my cats is called Tess.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,223
    Pulpstar said:

    Hmm. I kind of see Pulpstar's point about the West Midlands now.

    Could there be a c.10% swing from Labour to Tory there?

    Possible. But it would be a sea change.

    I reckon some people are thinking of the west Midlands as in all of the western Midlands.

    Kenilworth, Leamington, Stratford, Worcester, Shropshire and all the other charming blue surrounds aren't in this contest.
    Probably true.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,180
    edited April 2017
    RobD said:

    MTimT said:

    Ha! I posted first again, it was briefly there then disappeared. TSE tampering? We need an ICC investigation!

    How about a judge-led independent inquiry? :D
    @JackW could do it to confirm that nothing was untoward; he deserves a peerage.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,954

    Tell me, where is the Tess Valley ? ;-)

    I'm not sure, but I've heard it is a mile wide but only an inch deep.


    Oh, my coat? :D
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Wife beater spared jail because he 'would lose cricket contract' faces sentence review after club said claim was false

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/05/wife-beater-spared-jail-would-losecricket-contract-faces-sentence/
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    Pulpstar said:

    Labour are doing badly, but Andy Street is simply not a 1-2 chance for the West Midlands Mayoralty.
    Liverpool City region looks good at 1-10 Labour for my money too.

    Tees Valley more vulnerable than I'd assumed. If W Mids goes blue I'd be extremely surprised if Labour hold Tees.

    I was thinking of writing my weekend piece on the need for a 'first mayoralty won' list, where the contests are listed in some order and you have to pick the first that Lab (or Con) wins. The 'Con minus Lab' scores in Mike's chart produces the same order I'd have come up with - though such a list could include N Tyneside and Doncaster as well..
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,887

    Wife beater spared jail because he 'would lose cricket contract' faces sentence review after club said claim was false

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/05/wife-beater-spared-jail-would-losecricket-contract-faces-sentence/

    I'm reasonably confident Judge Richard Mansell's leniency is not to be found anywhere in the sentencing guidelines.
    He needs to be thoroughly investigated, at the very least.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,974
    RobD said:

    Tell me, where is the Tess Valley ? ;-)

    I'm not sure, but I've heard it is a mile wide but only an inch deep.


    Oh, my coat? :D
    Should be called the May Steppe really. :)
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956
    RobD said:

    Tell me, where is the Tess Valley ? ;-)

    I'm not sure, but I've heard it is a mile wide but only an inch deep.


    Oh, my coat? :D
    :D
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2017
    Athletics’ nationality debate to reignite as Miguel Francis swaps Antigua for GB

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/apr/05/athletics-nationality-debate-migeul-francis-antigua-gb-usain-bolt

    Out of interest, I presume such athletes become eligible for lottery funding? If that is true, I wonder if that is a factor in wanting to switch?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,887

    Pulpstar said:

    Labour are doing badly, but Andy Street is simply not a 1-2 chance for the West Midlands Mayoralty.
    Liverpool City region looks good at 1-10 Labour for my money too.

    Tees Valley more vulnerable than I'd assumed. If W Mids goes blue I'd be extremely surprised if Labour hold Tees.

    I was thinking of writing my weekend piece on the need for a 'first mayoralty won' list, where the contests are listed in some order and you have to pick the first that Lab (or Con) wins. The 'Con minus Lab' scores in Mike's chart produces the same order I'd have come up with - though such a list could include N Tyneside and Doncaster as well..
    Lab - Con :

    Lab over Con
    Liverpool
    Manchester
    Birmingham

    Even Money perhaps
    Tees Valley

    Con likely above Lab
    West of England (Possible Lib Dem gain)
    Peterborough (Lib Dems 2nd)

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,384
    edited April 2017

    Are the dates of the 'most recent local elections' the same for the various areas, and when were they?

    The same for England and Anglesey (2013), but the other Welsh and Scottish local councils were last fought in 2012. The one English exception is Doncaster which was last fought in 2015.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Pulpstar said:

    Wife beater spared jail because he 'would lose cricket contract' faces sentence review after club said claim was false

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/05/wife-beater-spared-jail-would-losecricket-contract-faces-sentence/

    I'm reasonably confident Judge Richard Mansell's leniency is not to be found anywhere in the sentencing guidelines.
    He needs to be thoroughly investigated, at the very least.
    I'd suggest reading this, which partially explains the sentence (though it still looks far too lenient to me). It also anticipated today's developments.

    https://thesecretbarrister.com/2017/03/27/was-the-cricketer-who-forced-his-wife-to-drink-bleach-spared-prison-because-his-wife-was-too-intelligent/
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,384
    Sign of the times that Bristol may be more likely to go Labour than Birmingham.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,887
    Andy_JS said:

    Are the dates of the 'most recent local elections' the same for the various areas, and when were they?

    The same for England and Anglesey (2013), but the other Welsh and Scottish local councils were last fought in 2012. The one English exception is Doncaster which was last fought in 2015.
    Manchester, Liverpool, West Mids 2016

    West of England, Peterborough & Cambs 2015

    Tees Valley 2013

    I think.
  • Nota bene, Mike talks about AV in his thread header.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Apropos nothing in particular, which do people think is better value for the next GE? [Leaving aside the time-value-of-money argument]

    Tories Most Seats 1.30 i.e. about 78%
    Tory Majority 1.79 i.e. about 56%
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,936
    @SouthamObserver

    Just catching up on the last thread. Huge kudos for leaving the current excuse for the Labour party. I suspect it was a really, really difficult step. But someone with your intelligence, patriotism, good humour and genuine humanity has so much to offer. For the good of us all, I hope you find a new political home soon.

    I suspect the uninformed (and especially one who called me a neo-fascist) will find this surprising, but I'm from very working class Welsh roots. The betrayal of the Labour movement by the Labour leaderships since the 80s is sad indeed. I'd almost certainly have been a Labour activist under Wilson, and definitely under Clem. Like Casino_Royale, the Brexit vote had a profound impact on me; it made me re-engage philosophically with parts of the country that have been forgotten, and even talk politics with my wider family again. They were baffled why this posh-boy loving antiquarian bookseller was in the Tory party when we agreed about the problems of capital vs provinces, global vs local and the pressure on salaries and public services. On the eve of the referendum I wrote, but did not send, a resignation letter. All I can say is that politics can turn on a sixpence, and the new Tory government is far closer to my beliefs and principles than Cameron and Osborne's ever could be. Have hope, old bean!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2017

    Pulpstar said:

    Wife beater spared jail because he 'would lose cricket contract' faces sentence review after club said claim was false

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/05/wife-beater-spared-jail-would-losecricket-contract-faces-sentence/

    I'm reasonably confident Judge Richard Mansell's leniency is not to be found anywhere in the sentencing guidelines.
    He needs to be thoroughly investigated, at the very least.
    I'd suggest reading this, which partially explains the sentence (though it still looks far too lenient to me). It also anticipated today's developments.

    https://thesecretbarrister.com/2017/03/27/was-the-cricketer-who-forced-his-wife-to-drink-bleach-spared-prison-because-his-wife-was-too-intelligent/
    I have no legal training, but it is common for the judge to take the claim such an employment contract at face value or should they be asking for written proof / the communications between the defendant and the cricket club?

    If I took such an approach to business I would be living in a cardboard box.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,180

    Athletics’ nationality debate to reignite as Miguel Francis swaps Antigua for GB

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/apr/05/athletics-nationality-debate-migeul-francis-antigua-gb-usain-bolt

    Out of interest, I presume such athletes become eligible for lottery funding? If that is true, I wonder if that is a factor in wanting to switch?

    Yes but are they running in the men's or women's race?
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    Nota bene, Mike talks about AV in his thread header.

    It is absurd that mayoral elections are decided under SV, which combines many of the worst features of various systems but without any of the redeeming features.
  • Animal_pbAnimal_pb Posts: 608

    Apropos nothing in particular, which do people think is better value for the next GE? [Leaving aside the time-value-of-money argument]

    Tories Most Seats 1.30 i.e. about 78%
    Tory Majority 1.79 i.e. about 56%

    Interesting. Unless the SNP completely melt down (unlikely), the former is almost certain. Is there enough premium above this to justify betting on Majority? Not sure. Might be better to stick with the near enough sure thing.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Pulpstar said:

    Wife beater spared jail because he 'would lose cricket contract' faces sentence review after club said claim was false

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/05/wife-beater-spared-jail-would-losecricket-contract-faces-sentence/

    I'm reasonably confident Judge Richard Mansell's leniency is not to be found anywhere in the sentencing guidelines.
    He needs to be thoroughly investigated, at the very least.
    Avoid jail as it would affect employment is a reasonably common thing​ I thought.

    Wasn't here a case of a city banker avoiding jail recently after glassing someone as he plead loss of employment?
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    Pulpstar said:

    Wife beater spared jail because he 'would lose cricket contract' faces sentence review after club said claim was false

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/05/wife-beater-spared-jail-would-losecricket-contract-faces-sentence/

    I'm reasonably confident Judge Richard Mansell's leniency is not to be found anywhere in the sentencing guidelines.
    He needs to be thoroughly investigated, at the very least.
    I'd suggest reading this, which partially explains the sentence (though it still looks far too lenient to me). It also anticipated today's developments.

    https://thesecretbarrister.com/2017/03/27/was-the-cricketer-who-forced-his-wife-to-drink-bleach-spared-prison-because-his-wife-was-too-intelligent/
    I have no legal training, but it is common for the judge to take the claim such an employment contract at face value or should they be asking for written proof / the communications between the defendant and the cricket club?

    If I took such an approach to business I would be living in a cardboard box.
    Well this is why perjury and contempt of court incur serious sentences.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,204
    edited April 2017

    Pulpstar said:

    Wife beater spared jail because he 'would lose cricket contract' faces sentence review after club said claim was false

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/05/wife-beater-spared-jail-would-losecricket-contract-faces-sentence/

    I'm reasonably confident Judge Richard Mansell's leniency is not to be found anywhere in the sentencing guidelines.
    He needs to be thoroughly investigated, at the very least.
    I'd suggest reading this, which partially explains the sentence (though it still looks far too lenient to me). It also anticipated today's developments.

    https://thesecretbarrister.com/2017/03/27/was-the-cricketer-who-forced-his-wife-to-drink-bleach-spared-prison-because-his-wife-was-too-intelligent/
    I have no legal training, but it is common for the judge to take the claim such an employment contract at face value or should they be asking for written proof / the communications between the defendant and the cricket club?

    If I took such an approach to business I would be living in a cardboard box.
    In my experience this is something the probation service deal with when they meet the defendant when they produce their pre sentence report for the judge with a suggested sentence.
  • marke09marke09 Posts: 926
    reminder that BBC Parliament are showing the 1992 General Election results programme this Saturday from 9am
  • ‪Why I've always admired Mandy. ‬

    https://twitter.com/undefined/status/849604047694958592
  • Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414

    Pulpstar said:

    Wife beater spared jail because he 'would lose cricket contract' faces sentence review after club said claim was false

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/05/wife-beater-spared-jail-would-losecricket-contract-faces-sentence/

    I'm reasonably confident Judge Richard Mansell's leniency is not to be found anywhere in the sentencing guidelines.
    He needs to be thoroughly investigated, at the very least.
    I'd suggest reading this, which partially explains the sentence (though it still looks far too lenient to me). It also anticipated today's developments.

    https://thesecretbarrister.com/2017/03/27/was-the-cricketer-who-forced-his-wife-to-drink-bleach-spared-prison-because-his-wife-was-too-intelligent/
    I have no legal training, but it is common for the judge to take the claim such an employment contract at face value or should they be asking for written proof / the communications between the defendant and the cricket club?

    If I took such an approach to business I would be living in a cardboard box.
    I don't know anything about this particular case.

    But to answer your question, yes, because very often the most outrageous claims by defendants in mitigation go unchallenged. The prosecution have already said what they have to say which is usually nothing more than disclosure of any previous convictions and in many cases they consider their job's done as long they have secured a conviction. There may be victim impact statements but they were only ever a sop to victims' charities and support groups and are usually ignored. So the defendant will tell his lawyers a pack of lies, which they have no choice but to present to the court, and the bench takes it at face value because it is given no reason not to.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,887

    Pulpstar said:

    Wife beater spared jail because he 'would lose cricket contract' faces sentence review after club said claim was false

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/05/wife-beater-spared-jail-would-losecricket-contract-faces-sentence/

    I'm reasonably confident Judge Richard Mansell's leniency is not to be found anywhere in the sentencing guidelines.
    He needs to be thoroughly investigated, at the very least.
    I'd suggest reading this, which partially explains the sentence (though it still looks far too lenient to me). It also anticipated today's developments.

    https://thesecretbarrister.com/2017/03/27/was-the-cricketer-who-forced-his-wife-to-drink-bleach-spared-prison-because-his-wife-was-too-intelligent/
    Read it, though I didn't find it particularly easy. It has reinforced my view in fact.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,887
    edited April 2017

    Pulpstar said:

    Wife beater spared jail because he 'would lose cricket contract' faces sentence review after club said claim was false

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/05/wife-beater-spared-jail-would-losecricket-contract-faces-sentence/

    I'm reasonably confident Judge Richard Mansell's leniency is not to be found anywhere in the sentencing guidelines.
    He needs to be thoroughly investigated, at the very least.
    I'd suggest reading this, which partially explains the sentence (though it still looks far too lenient to me). It also anticipated today's developments.

    https://thesecretbarrister.com/2017/03/27/was-the-cricketer-who-forced-his-wife-to-drink-bleach-spared-prison-because-his-wife-was-too-intelligent/
    I have no legal training, but it is common for the judge to take the claim such an employment contract at face value or should they be asking for written proof / the communications between the defendant and the cricket club?

    If I took such an approach to business I would be living in a cardboard box.
    Well this is why perjury and contempt of court incur serious sentences.
    Well, is he guilty of either of these crimes now ?

    Or does he get off the perjury charge as his brief told untruths to the court on his behalf ?
    Would he be guilty of perjury if he was a LIP ?!
  • BudGBudG Posts: 711
    Mortimer said:

    @SouthamObserver

    Just catching up on the last thread. Huge kudos for leaving the current excuse for the Labour party. I suspect it was a really, really difficult step. But someone with your intelligence, patriotism, good humour and genuine humanity has so much to offer. For the good of us all, I hope you find a new political home soon.

    I suspect the uninformed (and especially one who called me a neo-fascist) will find this surprising, but I'm from very working class Welsh roots. The betrayal of the Labour movement by the Labour leaderships since the 80s is sad indeed. I'd almost certainly have been a Labour activist under Wilson, and definitely under Clem. Like Casino_Royale, the Brexit vote had a profound impact on me; it made me re-engage philosophically with parts of the country that have been forgotten, and even talk politics with my wider family again. They were baffled why this posh-boy loving antiquarian bookseller was in the Tory party when we agreed about the problems of capital vs provinces, global vs local and the pressure on salaries and public services. On the eve of the referendum I wrote, but did not send, a resignation letter. All I can say is that politics can turn on a sixpence, and the new Tory government is far closer to my beliefs and principles than Cameron and Osborne's ever could be. Have hope, old bean!

    Sad that for all his concern about the homeless, JC is creating a news class of homeless - the politically homeless.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,143
    Scott_P said:
    Interesting that she doesn't ask him to apologise but only to shut up.

    It's the equivalent of lifting the carpet and hiding the dirt under it rather than sweeping it away.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Scott_P said:
    Is Shabi Chakrabarti trying to save Jeremy, Ken, Labour or her own reputation with that qoute?
  • Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414
    edited April 2017
    Scott_P said:
    Telling Ken Livinsgstone* to shut up?

    Good luck with that.

    *Ed: Livingstone, even.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    ‪Why I've always admired Mandy. ‬

    https://twitter.com/undefined/status/849604047694958592

    While he thinks 'Where did it all go wrong?'
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Wife beater spared jail because he 'would lose cricket contract' faces sentence review after club said claim was false

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/05/wife-beater-spared-jail-would-losecricket-contract-faces-sentence/

    I'm reasonably confident Judge Richard Mansell's leniency is not to be found anywhere in the sentencing guidelines.
    He needs to be thoroughly investigated, at the very least.
    I'd suggest reading this, which partially explains the sentence (though it still looks far too lenient to me). It also anticipated today's developments.

    https://thesecretbarrister.com/2017/03/27/was-the-cricketer-who-forced-his-wife-to-drink-bleach-spared-prison-because-his-wife-was-too-intelligent/
    Read it, though I didn't find it particularly easy. It has reinforced my view in fact.
    It seems to me that the core issue was him being charged with ABH instead of GBH. The judge cannot sentence on the basis of a crime that he wasn't tried for, even though the description of what happened passes the duck test.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,974
    edited April 2017
    A prominent Scottish Labour voice: "If the UK does not show flexibility then the UK will not exist any longer."

    https://twitter.com/davidmartinmep/status/849566860614008833
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Wife beater spared jail because he 'would lose cricket contract' faces sentence review after club said claim was false

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/05/wife-beater-spared-jail-would-losecricket-contract-faces-sentence/

    I'm reasonably confident Judge Richard Mansell's leniency is not to be found anywhere in the sentencing guidelines.
    He needs to be thoroughly investigated, at the very least.
    I'd suggest reading this, which partially explains the sentence (though it still looks far too lenient to me). It also anticipated today's developments.

    https://thesecretbarrister.com/2017/03/27/was-the-cricketer-who-forced-his-wife-to-drink-bleach-spared-prison-because-his-wife-was-too-intelligent/
    I have no legal training, but it is common for the judge to take the claim such an employment contract at face value or should they be asking for written proof / the communications between the defendant and the cricket club?

    If I took such an approach to business I would be living in a cardboard box.
    Well this is why perjury and contempt of court incur serious sentences.
    Well, is he guilty of either of these crimes now ?

    Or does he get off the perjury charge as his brief told untruths to the court on his behalf ?
    Would he be guilty of perjury if he was a LIP ?!
    Giving false instructions to your brief would be perverting the course of justice, I think.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,974
    Cyclefree said:

    Scott_P said:
    Interesting that she doesn't ask him to apologise but only to shut up.

    It's the equivalent of lifting the carpet and hiding the dirt under it rather than sweeping it away.
    Also what further 'investigation' is needed. Ken is all over the media digging himself further into a hole. Action is needed, not investigation.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,954

    A prominent Scottish Labour voice: "If the UK does not show flexibility then the UK will not exist any longer."

    twitter.com/davidmartinmep/status/849566860614008833

    No matter what the UK government does, the SNP will find something to complain about!
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Wife beater spared jail because he 'would lose cricket contract' faces sentence review after club said claim was false

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/05/wife-beater-spared-jail-would-losecricket-contract-faces-sentence/

    I'm reasonably confident Judge Richard Mansell's leniency is not to be found anywhere in the sentencing guidelines.
    He needs to be thoroughly investigated, at the very least.
    I'd suggest reading this, which partially explains the sentence (though it still looks far too lenient to me). It also anticipated today's developments.

    https://thesecretbarrister.com/2017/03/27/was-the-cricketer-who-forced-his-wife-to-drink-bleach-spared-prison-because-his-wife-was-too-intelligent/
    Read it, though I didn't find it particularly easy. It has reinforced my view in fact.
    It seems to me that the core issue was him being charged with ABH instead of GBH. The judge cannot sentence on the basis of a crime that he wasn't tried for, even though the description of what happened passes the duck test.
    Is that another case of the CPS going for a lower level of crime to bump up the conviction rate?
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Cyclefree said:

    Scott_P said:
    Interesting that she doesn't ask him to apologise but only to shut up.

    It's the equivalent of lifting the carpet and hiding the dirt under it rather than sweeping it away.
    Doesn't the part about lack of contrition cover it?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,143


    Cyclefree said:

    Scott_P said:
    Interesting that she doesn't ask him to apologise but only to shut up.

    It's the equivalent of lifting the carpet and hiding the dirt under it rather than sweeping it away.
    Also what further 'investigation' is needed. Ken is all over the media digging himself further into a hole. Action is needed, not investigation.
    What we could do with is a leak from the committee who decided on the sanction to see who was arguing for expulsion and who for suspension and the basis of their arguments.


  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Cyclefree said:

    Interesting that she doesn't ask him to apologise but only to shut up.

    "The original remarks were fine, but that was before Ken went mad and kept going on the news"
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,341
    felix said:

    ‪Why I've always admired Mandy. ‬

    https://twitter.com/undefined/status/849604047694958592

    While he thinks 'Where did it all go wrong?'
    With a fat MP's pension from his career in Government and a generous HoL allowance, I don't think Mandy is full of self-regret.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Alistair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Wife beater spared jail because he 'would lose cricket contract' faces sentence review after club said claim was false

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/05/wife-beater-spared-jail-would-losecricket-contract-faces-sentence/

    I'm reasonably confident Judge Richard Mansell's leniency is not to be found anywhere in the sentencing guidelines.
    He needs to be thoroughly investigated, at the very least.
    Avoid jail as it would affect employment is a reasonably common thing​ I thought.

    Wasn't here a case of a city banker avoiding jail recently after glassing someone as he plead loss of employment?
    An odd thing about the job offer is that no-one raised an eyebrow about a 34-year-old amateur suddenly being offered a county contract. 24 maybe.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,143

    Cyclefree said:

    Scott_P said:
    Interesting that she doesn't ask him to apologise but only to shut up.

    It's the equivalent of lifting the carpet and hiding the dirt under it rather than sweeping it away.
    Doesn't the part about lack of contrition cover it?
    In part. So why not say "I can only implore Mr Livingstone to apologise, maintain a silence and to please stop .....etc"?

    Possibly because she knows that he is not sorry at all. Still, that begs the question of why they were so lenient.

  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,870
    Just looking through the Statement of Persons Nominated for our county council in May.

    UKIP have disappeared. It's eerie. There are entire districts where they're not putting up a single candidate.

    This is going to significantly inflate the Conservative vote, I think, and blunt the challenge from the Lib Dems in a lot of previous-marginals. Certainly the two nearest marginals to me are looking more solid Conservative holds given that UKIP aren't putting up a candidate this time.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    felix said:

    ‪Why I've always admired Mandy. ‬

    https://twitter.com/undefined/status/849604047694958592

    While he thinks 'Where did it all go wrong?'
    With a fat MP's pension from his career in Government and a generous HoL allowance, I don't think Mandy is full of self-regret.
    You forgot the EU pension!
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    Cyclefree said:

    Scott_P said:
    Interesting that she doesn't ask him to apologise but only to shut up.

    It's the equivalent of lifting the carpet and hiding the dirt under it rather than sweeping it away.
    Doesn't the part about lack of contrition cover it?
    No fan of Shami, but my first reading was indeed that she was making two points:

    1. that he has not apologized
    2. that he is digging himself deeper into the hole.

    While she may not have outright asked him to apologize, I think that was implicit in the criticism of not apologizing.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,143

    felix said:

    ‪Why I've always admired Mandy. ‬

    https://twitter.com/undefined/status/849604047694958592

    While he thinks 'Where did it all go wrong?'
    With a fat MP's pension from his career in Government and a generous HoL allowance, I don't think Mandy is full of self-regret.
    Not to mention his EU pension and all the money earned from his job at Lazards. Still, rather than worrying about May he might spend some time worrying about Labour.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,384
    marke09 said:

    reminder that BBC Parliament are showing the 1992 General Election results programme this Saturday from 9am

    The best election night show the BBC ever did in my opinion.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2017

    Alistair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Wife beater spared jail because he 'would lose cricket contract' faces sentence review after club said claim was false

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/05/wife-beater-spared-jail-would-losecricket-contract-faces-sentence/

    I'm reasonably confident Judge Richard Mansell's leniency is not to be found anywhere in the sentencing guidelines.
    He needs to be thoroughly investigated, at the very least.
    Avoid jail as it would affect employment is a reasonably common thing​ I thought.

    Wasn't here a case of a city banker avoiding jail recently after glassing someone as he plead loss of employment?
    An odd thing about the job offer is that no-one raised an eyebrow about a 34-year-old amateur suddenly being offered a county contract. 24 maybe.
    An amateur which a simple google search would show has played a total of one match at "professional" level in Pakistan in his whole career.

    As a youth, I played high level UK amateur cricket in the UK and every team had an overseas pro, all of which either had proven track records at county / international level or they were on the way up and had played things like U19 international cricket.

    Several of the overseas players I played against got county contracts, but none were 34 year old you nobodies. Also, being Pakistani, it is much harder to get a county contract offer than say somebody from South Africa, for several reasons relating to work permit, Kolpak etc.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,384

    Just looking through the Statement of Persons Nominated for our county council in May.

    UKIP have disappeared. It's eerie. There are entire districts where they're not putting up a single candidate.

    This is going to significantly inflate the Conservative vote, I think, and blunt the challenge from the Lib Dems in a lot of previous-marginals. Certainly the two nearest marginals to me are looking more solid Conservative holds given that UKIP aren't putting up a candidate this time.

    Which council area is it? UKIP are predicted to drop from 22% to 10% in the projected national share which fits in with them not standing in lots of places.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,870
    Oxfordshire.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,180

    Alistair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Wife beater spared jail because he 'would lose cricket contract' faces sentence review after club said claim was false

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/05/wife-beater-spared-jail-would-losecricket-contract-faces-sentence/

    I'm reasonably confident Judge Richard Mansell's leniency is not to be found anywhere in the sentencing guidelines.
    He needs to be thoroughly investigated, at the very least.
    Avoid jail as it would affect employment is a reasonably common thing​ I thought.

    Wasn't here a case of a city banker avoiding jail recently after glassing someone as he plead loss of employment?
    An odd thing about the job offer is that no-one raised an eyebrow about a 34-year-old amateur suddenly being offered a county contract. 24 maybe.
    An amateur which a simple google search would show has played a total of one match at "professional" level in Pakistan in his whole career.

    As a youth, I played high level UK amateur cricket in the UK and every team had an overseas pro, all of which either had proven track records at county / international level or they were on the way up and had played things like U19 international cricket.

    Several of the overseas players I played against got snapped up by county teams. However none were 34 year old you nobodies.
    IANAJ but surely the judiciary can't spend time on Google for each case to find out things that they could reasonably expect one side or the other to present in court?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @MrHarryCole: NEC will reopen investigation into Ken Livingstone. Jez blinks under Watson pressure.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @georgeeaton: Labour always contrive to design a worse outcome than seems possible.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2017
    TOPPING said:

    Alistair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Wife beater spared jail because he 'would lose cricket contract' faces sentence review after club said claim was false

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/05/wife-beater-spared-jail-would-losecricket-contract-faces-sentence/

    I'm reasonably confident Judge Richard Mansell's leniency is not to be found anywhere in the sentencing guidelines.
    He needs to be thoroughly investigated, at the very least.
    Avoid jail as it would affect employment is a reasonably common thing​ I thought.

    Wasn't here a case of a city banker avoiding jail recently after glassing someone as he plead loss of employment?
    An odd thing about the job offer is that no-one raised an eyebrow about a 34-year-old amateur suddenly being offered a county contract. 24 maybe.
    An amateur which a simple google search would show has played a total of one match at "professional" level in Pakistan in his whole career.

    As a youth, I played high level UK amateur cricket in the UK and every team had an overseas pro, all of which either had proven track records at county / international level or they were on the way up and had played things like U19 international cricket.

    Several of the overseas players I played against got snapped up by county teams. However none were 34 year old you nobodies.
    IANAJ but surely the judiciary can't spend time on Google for each case to find out things that they could reasonably expect one side or the other to present in court?
    Well this was a very very specific and should have your bullshit meter going off. It took me 5 seconds to check...and also this started by my question of why isn't the judge asking for any communications between the defendant and the club to be presented to him.

    If there were claims that a 70 year old reality tv star with no political experience was going to run for president of the USA...oh wait, shit thats ruined my argument.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,180

    TOPPING said:

    Alistair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Wife beater spared jail because he 'would lose cricket contract' faces sentence review after club said claim was false

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/05/wife-beater-spared-jail-would-losecricket-contract-faces-sentence/

    I'm reasonably confident Judge Richard Mansell's leniency is not to be found anywhere in the sentencing guidelines.
    He needs to be thoroughly investigated, at the very least.
    Avoid jail as it would affect employment is a reasonably common thing​ I thought.

    Wasn't here a case of a city banker avoiding jail recently after glassing someone as he plead loss of employment?
    An odd thing about the job offer is that no-one raised an eyebrow about a 34-year-old amateur suddenly being offered a county contract. 24 maybe.
    An amateur which a simple google search would show has played a total of one match at "professional" level in Pakistan in his whole career.

    As a youth, I played high level UK amateur cricket in the UK and every team had an overseas pro, all of which either had proven track records at county / international level or they were on the way up and had played things like U19 international cricket.

    Several of the overseas players I played against got snapped up by county teams. However none were 34 year old you nobodies.
    IANAJ but surely the judiciary can't spend time on Google for each case to find out things that they could reasonably expect one side or the other to present in court?
    Well this was a very very specific and should have your bullshit meter going off. It took me 5 seconds to check...and also this started by my question of why isn't the judge asking for any communications between the defendant and the club to be presented to him.

    If there were claims that a 70 year old reality tv star with no political experience was going to run for president...oh wait, shit thats ruined my argument.
    Judges have probably come to the learned conclusion that truth is inevitably stranger than fiction...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2017
    Ken tells Guido that no one from Corbyn’s office has been in touch today and says “Maybe Shami hasn’t read what I’ve actually said and has just been reading these dishonest tweets”. He says a new investigation would not change last night’s legal outcome. Ken only mentioned Hitler once in our two minute phone call.

    -----

    Guido has just broken the news of Corbyn’s statement over the phone to Ken. His response to the news that Jez has referred him to the NEC:

    “That’ll be interesting. It doesn’t matter at the end of the day because we are subject to British law. You’re not going to get a British judge to rule against me for telling the truth. It may be that they have been following all the tweets accusing me of being anti-Semitic, I’ll find out when I speak to Jeremy.”

    https://order-order.com/2017/04/05/shami-throws-ken-bus/

    What a clusterf##k...no that isn't a strong enough word.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2017
    How I imagine Corbyn is looking at the moment...

    image

    Perhaps this is why life expectancy in the UK is falling...Stress... ;-)
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    As a committed lefty, my duty is surely to vote Conservative and Liberal Democrat in the Tees Valley election.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    I know the feeling .... :smiley:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-39500773

    The Labour party too .... just ....
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    edited April 2017

    How I imagine Corbyn is looking at the moment...

    image

    Perhaps this is why life expectancy in the UK is falling...Stress... ;-)

    Did you not get the memo about warning us when posting graphic images? :trollface::lol:
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2017
    And in the least surprising news of the day...

    Barry Manilow has revealed he is gay and has been with his partner for 39 years.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/music/news/barry-manilow-comes-73-reveals-boyfriend-39-years/

    Him being gay is not news (on a number of fronts), being with the same person for 39 years in the entertainment biz on the other hand is...given the average relationship seems more like 39 minutes.
This discussion has been closed.