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SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited April 2017 in General
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  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969
    edited April 2017
    May the Fourth be with you.

    I am one with the force, the force is one with me.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    TSE first on success threads. Hmmm...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    kle4 said:

    Has Ken gone home for tea yet or is he still touring the Zionist backed media outlets to teach us all about the real history of Hitler and the Jews?

    https://twitter.com/graemedemianyk/status/849703180195725313
    I really really don't know what to say...it is was offensive, then an easy target, then quite funny, now its just sad.
    He's inviting it all on himself.
    Oh absolutely, but it is turning into a bit like Timmykins on here who ended 16+ hrs a day, then last seen spamming 1000s of tweets. It was like get a life man, you aren't changing anybodies mind and just repeating the same stuff over and over again.
  • Reports tonight Mark Reckless in bid to rejoin the conservative party
  • glwglw Posts: 9,535
    If any enterprising journalists are reading this could you please ask Ken for his views about the Kennedy assassination, moon landings, and 9/11, as I'm very curious to find out what he thinks about those events.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,773

    Reports tonight Mark Reckless in bid to rejoin the conservative party

    Maybe he'll be offered a ministerial post.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    glw said:

    If any enterprising journalists are reading this could you please ask Ken for his views about the Kennedy assassination, moon landings, and 9/11, as I'm very curious to find out what he thinks about those events.


    I think they're just enjoying seeing if they can get Ken to go over 60 hph.

    (hph - hitlers per hour).

  • Hertsmere_PubgoerHertsmere_Pubgoer Posts: 3,476
    edited April 2017
    Sean_F said:

    Reports tonight Mark Reckless in bid to rejoin the conservative party

    Maybe he'll be offered a ministerial post.
    Minister for red shoes on lawyers
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    Reports tonight Mark Reckless in bid to rejoin the conservative party

    Would anybody really want Reckless in the Tories? He has always been hard to manage. I can only think that allowing Reckless and Carswell back might offer a unifying of right of centre opinion at the ballot box.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2017
    glw said:

    If any enterprising journalists are reading this could you please ask Ken for his views about the Kennedy assassination, moon landings, and 9/11, as I'm very curious to find out what he thinks about those events.

    I bet he has read some books on those ;-)

    I believe the go to academic on 9/11 is called Joy Karega...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,760
    Sean_F said:

    Reports tonight Mark Reckless in bid to rejoin the conservative party

    Maybe he'll be offered a ministerial post.
    In order to do that in the Sennedd, he'd have to defect to Labour, who govern with the support of the lone Liberal Democrat.

    Admittedly he would considerably raise the average ability and integrity of the Sennedd Labour Party while slightly reducing the average waistline, but I somehow don't see Carwyn Jones welcoming him in.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842


    Would anybody really want Reckless in the Tories?

    I hear a certain prolific poster here is making a personal request :p
  • Sean_F said:

    Reports tonight Mark Reckless in bid to rejoin the conservative party

    Maybe he'll be offered a ministerial post.
    He'll be offered the job of Her Majesty's Most Excellent Ambassador Extraordinaire and Plenipotentiary to the Islamic State.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,760

    Sean_F said:

    Reports tonight Mark Reckless in bid to rejoin the conservative party

    Maybe he'll be offered a ministerial post.
    He'll be offered the job of Her Majesty's Most Excellent Ambassador Extraordinaire and Plenipotentiary to the Islamic State.
    I thought that was being saved up for Harriet Harman?
  • Reports tonight Mark Reckless in bid to rejoin the conservative party

    Would anybody really want Reckless in the Tories? He has always been hard to manage. I can only think that allowing Reckless and Carswell back might offer a unifying of right of centre opinion at the ballot box.

    The report says that the conservatives are not agreeing to his request at present
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    Sean_F said:

    Reports tonight Mark Reckless in bid to rejoin the conservative party

    Maybe he'll be offered a ministerial post.
    He'll be offered the job of Her Majesty's Most Excellent Ambassador Extraordinaire and Plenipotentiary to the Islamic State.
    I hear they need inspectors in Idlib.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    Pulpstar said:


    Would anybody really want Reckless in the Tories?

    I hear a certain prolific poster here is making a personal request :p

    Is TSE saying anything? I hear he's got his poker face on.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,960
    Reckless timed his defection to UKIP to cause maximum damage to the Tory party conference.

    If he wants back in, then he must do the Walk of Shame into conference, naked from Wales through to the streets of Manchester.

    Then conference can vote on whether he has shown enough penitence. I'm hoping not.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,749

    kle4 said:

    Has Ken gone home for tea yet or is he still touring the Zionist backed media outlets to teach us all about the real history of Hitler and the Jews?

    https://twitter.com/graemedemianyk/status/849703180195725313
    I really really don't know what to say...it is was offensive, then an easy target, then quite funny, now its just sad.
    He's inviting it all on himself.
    Oh absolutely, but it is turning into a bit like Timmykins on here who ended 16+ hrs a day, then last seen spamming 1000s of tweets. It was like get a life man, you aren't changing anybodies mind and just repeating the same stuff over and over again.
    Thank goodness your 19,820 posts are of infinite variety and changing minds everywhere.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,760

    Reckless timed his defection to UKIP to cause maximum damage to the Tory party conference.

    If he wants back in, then he must do the Walk of Shame into conference, naked from Wales through to the streets of Manchester.

    Then conference can vote on whether he has shown enough penitence. I'm hoping not.

    Do I get the feeling that he isn't terribly popular in his former party?
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,232
    Interesting to hear about Reckless. Apparently he's been demanding Single Market access for Wales, so that throws into doubt his commitment to Kipperism. I suspect that like Carswell and most Tory/UKIP defectors, it was all just a glorified flounce over Dave's leadership style. If I were the Tories I'd avoid future entanglements with this obvious flake.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,286
    edited April 2017
    I'd be very surprised if the Tories actually get 31% in the projected national share. 35%+ seems more likely IMO, particularly with UKIP failing to put up candidates in so many places where they did relatively well last time.
  • ydoethur said:

    Reckless timed his defection to UKIP to cause maximum damage to the Tory party conference.

    If he wants back in, then he must do the Walk of Shame into conference, naked from Wales through to the streets of Manchester.

    Then conference can vote on whether he has shown enough penitence. I'm hoping not.

    Do I get the feeling that he isn't terribly popular in his former party?
    There's a lot of Leavers MPs and members in the Tory Party who would like to castrate Mark Reckless with a rusty saw.

    It was the timing of his defection that caused so much anger.

    Contrast the restraint and sadness shown at Douglas Carswell defecting to UKIP
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,960
    ydoethur said:

    Reckless timed his defection to UKIP to cause maximum damage to the Tory party conference.

    If he wants back in, then he must do the Walk of Shame into conference, naked from Wales through to the streets of Manchester.

    Then conference can vote on whether he has shown enough penitence. I'm hoping not.

    Do I get the feeling that he isn't terribly popular in his former party?
    There is a delicious irony: just when we thought the Floggers and Hangers in the Tory Party had all defected to UKIP, it takes Mark Reckless to rediscover them....
  • RestharrowRestharrow Posts: 233

    ydoethur said:

    Reckless timed his defection to UKIP to cause maximum damage to the Tory party conference.

    If he wants back in, then he must do the Walk of Shame into conference, naked from Wales through to the streets of Manchester.

    Then conference can vote on whether he has shown enough penitence. I'm hoping not.

    Do I get the feeling that he isn't terribly popular in his former party?
    There's a lot of Leavers MPs and members in the Tory Party who would like to castrate Mark Reckless with a rusty saw.

    It was the timing of his defection that caused so much anger.

    Contrast the restraint and sadness shown at Douglas Carswell defecting to UKIP
    Churchill's various rattings and re-rattings were discretely conducted behind the oak doors of clubland, but I presume Mr Reckless holds him in high regard.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,846

    Interesting to hear about Reckless. Apparently he's been demanding Single Market access for Wales, so that throws into doubt his commitment to Kipperism. I suspect that like Carswell and most Tory/UKIP defectors, it was all just a glorified flounce over Dave's leadership style. If I were the Tories I'd avoid future entanglements with this obvious flake.

    Carswell certainly wasn't a flounce given that he had been a strong critic of Tory party policy on the EU for many years. I must admit that until he jumped ship I had never even heard of Reckless and, unlike Carswell and Hannan, he certainly wasn't well known in the Eurosceptic community.
  • bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042

    kle4 said:

    Has Ken gone home for tea yet or is he still touring the Zionist backed media outlets to teach us all about the real history of Hitler and the Jews?

    https://twitter.com/graemedemianyk/status/849703180195725313
    I really really don't know what to say...it is was offensive, then an easy target, then quite funny, now its just sad.
    He's inviting it all on himself.
    Oh absolutely, but it is turning into a bit like Timmykins on here who ended 16+ hrs a day, then last seen spamming 1000s of tweets. It was like get a life man, you aren't changing anybodies mind and just repeating the same stuff over and over again.
    Thank goodness your 19,820 posts are of infinite variety and changing minds everywhere.
    Bring back Tim AND James Kelly. Justice for the PB Two - golden greats of this forum from days when PB Lefties were PB Lefties, PB Tories were PB Tories and PB Nats were PB Nats - none of this fancy Brexit shite to muddy the lines. Bring them back.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    bobajobPB said:

    kle4 said:

    Has Ken gone home for tea yet or is he still touring the Zionist backed media outlets to teach us all about the real history of Hitler and the Jews?

    https://twitter.com/graemedemianyk/status/849703180195725313
    I really really don't know what to say...it is was offensive, then an easy target, then quite funny, now its just sad.
    He's inviting it all on himself.
    Oh absolutely, but it is turning into a bit like Timmykins on here who ended 16+ hrs a day, then last seen spamming 1000s of tweets. It was like get a life man, you aren't changing anybodies mind and just repeating the same stuff over and over again.
    Thank goodness your 19,820 posts are of infinite variety and changing minds everywhere.
    Bring back Tim AND James Kelly. Justice for the PB Two - golden greats of this forum from days when PB Lefties were PB Lefties, PB Tories were PB Tories and PB Nats were PB Nats - none of this fancy Brexit shite to muddy the lines. Bring them back.
    And when Bobajob was Bobajob and only Bobajob? :smiley:
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,760
    edited April 2017

    ydoethur said:

    Reckless timed his defection to UKIP to cause maximum damage to the Tory party conference.

    If he wants back in, then he must do the Walk of Shame into conference, naked from Wales through to the streets of Manchester.

    Then conference can vote on whether he has shown enough penitence. I'm hoping not.

    Do I get the feeling that he isn't terribly popular in his former party?
    There's a lot of Leavers MPs and members in the Tory Party who would like to castrate Mark Reckless with a rusty saw.

    It was the timing of his defection that caused so much anger.

    Contrast the restraint and sadness shown at Douglas Carswell defecting to UKIP
    Churchill's various rattings and re-rattings were discretely conducted behind the oak doors of clubland, but I presume Mr Reckless holds him in high regard.
    Not a very good equivalent:

    1) Churchill spent several years in coalition with the Conservatives under Lloyd George, in senior cabinet posts;

    2) When re-ratting to the Conservatives, he had effectively left the Liberals in 1917 and after 1922 spent a couple of years as an independent before being brought in at Cabinet level by Baldwin on the advice of Neville Chamberlain (who had refused the post of Chancellor) over the angry protests of the ordinary party;

    3) He was a talented figure with a proven track record in government (such figures were quite scarce in the Tory party of the 1920s - witness that the Home Secretary of the time, Joynson-Hicks, had only been in cabinet a year and Baldwin himself had been a backbencher less than six years before) and was well-connected politically - a definite catch.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Number of candidates by party , English council elections on May 4th with change from 2013

    Con 2,256 No Change
    Lab 2,179 Plus 5
    LDem 1,907 Plus 159
    Green 1,266 Plus 395
    UKIP 1,121 Minus 633
    All Others/Inds 762 Minus 276
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387

    Number of candidates by party , English council elections on May 4th with change from 2013

    Con 2,256 No Change
    Lab 2,179 Plus 5
    LDem 1,907 Plus 159
    Green 1,266 Plus 395
    UKIP 1,121 Minus 633
    All Others/Inds 762 Minus 276

    Small improvement for the LDs and as expected a big fall for UKIP! Surprised also to find the greens up, must be a deliberate effort.
  • bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042
    RobD said:

    bobajobPB said:

    kle4 said:

    Has Ken gone home for tea yet or is he still touring the Zionist backed media outlets to teach us all about the real history of Hitler and the Jews?

    https://twitter.com/graemedemianyk/status/849703180195725313
    I really really don't know what to say...it is was offensive, then an easy target, then quite funny, now its just sad.
    He's inviting it all on himself.
    Oh absolutely, but it is turning into a bit like Timmykins on here who ended 16+ hrs a day, then last seen spamming 1000s of tweets. It was like get a life man, you aren't changing anybodies mind and just repeating the same stuff over and over again.
    Thank goodness your 19,820 posts are of infinite variety and changing minds everywhere.
    Bring back Tim AND James Kelly. Justice for the PB Two - golden greats of this forum from days when PB Lefties were PB Lefties, PB Tories were PB Tories and PB Nats were PB Nats - none of this fancy Brexit shite to muddy the lines. Bring them back.
    And when Bobajob was Bobajob and only Bobajob? :smiley:
    Self indulgent nostalgia, @RobD.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    Number of candidates by party , English council elections on May 4th with change from 2013

    Con 2,256 No Change
    Lab 2,179 Plus 5
    LDem 1,907 Plus 159
    Green 1,266 Plus 395
    UKIP 1,121 Minus 633
    All Others/Inds 762 Minus 276

    Not surprised by the Greens given they've quintupled in my area alone, good organisation from them. UKIP reduced by over 75% candidate wise too.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,760

    ydoethur said:

    Reckless timed his defection to UKIP to cause maximum damage to the Tory party conference.

    If he wants back in, then he must do the Walk of Shame into conference, naked from Wales through to the streets of Manchester.

    Then conference can vote on whether he has shown enough penitence. I'm hoping not.

    Do I get the feeling that he isn't terribly popular in his former party?
    There's a lot of Leavers MPs and members in the Tory Party who would like to castrate Mark Reckless with a rusty saw.

    It was the timing of his defection that caused so much anger.

    Contrast the restraint and sadness shown at Douglas Carswell defecting to UKIP
    I'll take that as a 'yes'.

    But really, Mr Eagles, everyone knows that a rusty saw is the wrong implement. Two bricks. That's the way to go. Small ones so you have to have a couple of tries.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,960
    bobajobPB said:

    kle4 said:

    Has Ken gone home for tea yet or is he still touring the Zionist backed media outlets to teach us all about the real history of Hitler and the Jews?

    https://twitter.com/graemedemianyk/status/849703180195725313
    I really really don't know what to say...it is was offensive, then an easy target, then quite funny, now its just sad.
    He's inviting it all on himself.
    Oh absolutely, but it is turning into a bit like Timmykins on here who ended 16+ hrs a day, then last seen spamming 1000s of tweets. It was like get a life man, you aren't changing anybodies mind and just repeating the same stuff over and over again.
    Thank goodness your 19,820 posts are of infinite variety and changing minds everywhere.
    Bring back Tim AND James Kelly. Justice for the PB Two - golden greats of this forum from days when PB Lefties were PB Lefties, PB Tories were PB Tories and PB Nats were PB Nats - none of this fancy Brexit shite to muddy the lines. Bring them back.
    And back when Steve McClaren was Forest manag......noooooooooooooooo!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    Number of candidates by party , English council elections on May 4th with change from 2013

    Con 2,256 No Change
    Lab 2,179 Plus 5
    LDem 1,907 Plus 159
    Green 1,266 Plus 395
    UKIP 1,121 Minus 633
    All Others/Inds 762 Minus 276

    Do you know the number of seats up? Also nominations still open, so we would welcome an update when they close, if possible!
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,846
    OT. Sad news in the Eurosceptic movement today with news of the death of Helen Szamuely, one of the brightest and best informed of all in the movement.

    Her fight against the EU began long before UKIP was even thought of and she was one of the irreplaceable experts whose in depth knowledge of the workings of the EU informed the whole movement. I believe she was of Hungarian descent and alongside her Euroscepticism she was a staunch opponent of Russian expansionism both in its Soviet and more recently its Putinesque forms.

    I am glad she lived long enough to see the Brexit vote and Article 50 enacted but greatly saddened that her voice of intelligence and moderation will no longer be heard.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    I kind of hope Keiran asks Professor Ralling what he thinks of noted deputy editors referring to other psephologists as the Primus Inter Pares of their field rather than him.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387
    Rutte now at @ 1.11 to form the next government, another good chance to cash out if you laid at 1.03... can't say I backed my own tip that heavily...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    It is interesting to consider how much a chore it was to track down local by-election results week on week back in the dark ages.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    Sturgeon's marketing of Scotland to California students 'The first is that if any of you are uncertain what to do after you leave Stanford, you are very welcome to come to Scotland! We offer a warm welcome and a fantastic quality of life. And our weather is much more interesting than the boring sunshine you get here in California…'
    https://www.snp.org/nicola_sturgeon_address_at_stanford_university_scotland_s_place_in_the_world
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789
    HYUFD said:

    Sturgeon's marketing of Scotland to California students 'The first is that if any of you are uncertain what to do after you leave Stanford, you are very welcome to come to Scotland! We offer a warm welcome and a fantastic quality of life. And our weather is much more interesting than the boring sunshine you get here in California…'
    https://www.snp.org/nicola_sturgeon_address_at_stanford_university_scotland_s_place_in_the_world

    The Anglosphere will be blessed indeed to gain a head of government of her calibre.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    RobD said:

    Number of candidates by party , English council elections on May 4th with change from 2013

    Con 2,256 No Change
    Lab 2,179 Plus 5
    LDem 1,907 Plus 159
    Green 1,266 Plus 395
    UKIP 1,121 Minus 633
    All Others/Inds 762 Minus 276

    Do you know the number of seats up? Also nominations still open, so we would welcome an update when they close, if possible!
    Nominations have closed those are the final figures . Will dig out number of seats up shortly stay tuned .
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    RobD said:

    Number of candidates by party , English council elections on May 4th with change from 2013

    Con 2,256 No Change
    Lab 2,179 Plus 5
    LDem 1,907 Plus 159
    Green 1,266 Plus 395
    UKIP 1,121 Minus 633
    All Others/Inds 762 Minus 276

    Do you know the number of seats up? Also nominations still open, so we would welcome an update when they close, if possible!
    Nominations have closed those are the final figures . Will dig out number of seats up shortly stay tuned .
    Oh! I thought they were open a few more days, my mistake.
  • bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042
    HYUFD said:

    Sturgeon's marketing of Scotland to California students 'The first is that if any of you are uncertain what to do after you leave Stanford, you are very welcome to come to Scotland! We offer a warm welcome and a fantastic quality of life. And our weather is much more interesting than the boring sunshine you get here in California…'
    https://www.snp.org/nicola_sturgeon_address_at_stanford_university_scotland_s_place_in_the_world

    Brilliant. Saw the end of the session yesterday - excellent as usual from Nicola.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    Hasn't Nicola got anything better to do?
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Reckless timed his defection to UKIP to cause maximum damage to the Tory party conference.

    If he wants back in, then he must do the Walk of Shame into conference, naked from Wales through to the streets of Manchester.

    Then conference can vote on whether he has shown enough penitence. I'm hoping not.

    Do I get the feeling that he isn't terribly popular in his former party?
    There's a lot of Leavers MPs and members in the Tory Party who would like to castrate Mark Reckless with a rusty saw.

    It was the timing of his defection that caused so much anger.

    Contrast the restraint and sadness shown at Douglas Carswell defecting to UKIP
    Churchill's various rattings and re-rattings were discretely conducted behind the oak doors of clubland, but I presume Mr Reckless holds him in high regard.
    Not a very good equivalent:

    1) Churchill spent several years in coalition with the Conservatives under Lloyd George, in senior cabinet posts;

    2) When re-ratting to the Conservatives, he had effectively left the Liberals in 1917 and after 1922 spent a couple of years as an independent before being brought in at Cabinet level by Baldwin on the advice of Neville Chamberlain (who had refused the post of Chancellor) over the angry protests of the ordinary party;

    3) He was a talented figure with a proven track record in government (such figures were quite scarce in the Tory party of the 1920s - witness that the Home Secretary of the time, Joynson-Hicks, had only been in cabinet a year and Baldwin himself had been a backbencher less than six years before) and was well-connected politically - a definite catch.
    Churchill was a Liberal candidate in Leicester for the 1923 election!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,286
    edited April 2017
    UKIP polled 23% of the vote in Hastings in 2013, although they didn't win any seats. They have no candidates standing this time.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Andy_JS said:

    UKIP polled 23% of the vote in Hastings in 2013, although they didn't win any seats. They have no candidates standing this time.

    So they're much more efficient now I guess.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    bobajobPB said:

    kle4 said:

    Has Ken gone home for tea yet or is he still touring the Zionist backed media outlets to teach us all about the real history of Hitler and the Jews?

    https://twitter.com/graemedemianyk/status/849703180195725313
    I really really don't know what to say...it is was offensive, then an easy target, then quite funny, now its just sad.
    He's inviting it all on himself.
    Oh absolutely, but it is turning into a bit like Timmykins on here who ended 16+ hrs a day, then last seen spamming 1000s of tweets. It was like get a life man, you aren't changing anybodies mind and just repeating the same stuff over and over again.
    Thank goodness your 19,820 posts are of infinite variety and changing minds everywhere.
    Bring back Tim AND James Kelly. Justice for the PB Two - golden greats of this forum from days when PB Lefties were PB Lefties, PB Tories were PB Tories and PB Nats were PB Nats - none of this fancy Brexit shite to muddy the lines. Bring them back.
    Make PB Great Again?
  • bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042
    Gallowgate

    I often agree with you but you have a real blind spot when it comes to Nicola. She is class above the rest of the comics we have 'leading' our parties nowadays.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    HYUFD said:

    Sturgeon's marketing of Scotland to California students 'The first is that if any of you are uncertain what to do after you leave Stanford, you are very welcome to come to Scotland! We offer a warm welcome and a fantastic quality of life. And our weather is much more interesting than the boring sunshine you get here in California…'
    https://www.snp.org/nicola_sturgeon_address_at_stanford_university_scotland_s_place_in_the_world

    I consider persuading my wife to move from California to the UK one of my more successful (albeit expensive) negotiations
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976

    Number of candidates by party , English council elections on May 4th with change from 2013

    Con 2,256 No Change
    Lab 2,179 Plus 5
    LDem 1,907 Plus 159
    Green 1,266 Plus 395
    UKIP 1,121 Minus 633
    All Others/Inds 762 Minus 276

    Cheers for posting those figures Mr Senior. – Will you also be posting Scotland + Wales?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    edited April 2017
    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sturgeon's marketing of Scotland to California students 'The first is that if any of you are uncertain what to do after you leave Stanford, you are very welcome to come to Scotland! We offer a warm welcome and a fantastic quality of life. And our weather is much more interesting than the boring sunshine you get here in California…'
    https://www.snp.org/nicola_sturgeon_address_at_stanford_university_scotland_s_place_in_the_world

    I consider persuading my wife to move from California to the UK one of my more successful (albeit expensive) negotiations
    You spent a fortune on umbrellas?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Professor Rallings saying UKIP were not a party from the grassroots up, which is one reason they are struggling now the national debate is less relevant for them. Surely not - why, wasn't their leave campaign group called GrassrootsOut?

    Edit: Sh*t, it wasn't.

    Damn it, it may not have looked it but I worked hard on that joke.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Apparently 30 or so of the 130 plus of the UKIP seats won last time by which the predictions of losses are to be judged by, are already gone, to by-elections and defections.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    edited April 2017
    "Labour [are not] doing appallingly"

    Hell of a quote for Labour to hear right now, putting where people reasonably expect them to be in context (that is, the options are bad, but at best not as bad as it could be) - if admittedly on a set of elections not very conducive for them anyway.
  • RestharrowRestharrow Posts: 233
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Reckless timed his defection to UKIP to cause maximum damage to the Tory party conference.

    If he wants back in, then he must do the Walk of Shame into conference, naked from Wales through to the streets of Manchester.

    Then conference can vote on whether he has shown enough penitence. I'm hoping not.

    Do I get the feeling that he isn't terribly popular in his former party?
    There's a lot of Leavers MPs and members in the Tory Party who would like to castrate Mark Reckless with a rusty saw.

    It was the timing of his defection that caused so much anger.

    Contrast the restraint and sadness shown at Douglas Carswell defecting to UKIP
    Churchill's various rattings and re-rattings were discretely conducted behind the oak doors of clubland, but I presume Mr Reckless holds him in high regard.
    Not a very good equivalent:

    1) Churchill spent several years in coalition with the Conservatives under Lloyd George, in senior cabinet posts;

    2) When re-ratting to the Conservatives, he had effectively left the Liberals in 1917 and after 1922 spent a couple of years as an independent before being brought in at Cabinet level by Baldwin on the advice of Neville Chamberlain (who had refused the post of Chancellor) over the angry protests of the ordinary party;

    3) He was a talented figure with a proven track record in government (such figures were quite scarce in the Tory party of the 1920s - witness that the Home Secretary of the time, Joynson-Hicks, had only been in cabinet a year and Baldwin himself had been a backbencher less than six years before) and was well-connected politically - a definite catch.
    I have to admit it's not a very good equivalent. But Mr Reckless might demur.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    edited April 2017
    Rallings not expecting as big losses for Lab in Scotland as some of the predictions we've been seeing.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,026
    HYUFD said:

    Sturgeon's marketing of Scotland to California students 'The first is that if any of you are uncertain what to do after you leave Stanford, you are very welcome to come to Scotland! We offer a warm welcome and a fantastic quality of life. And our weather is much more interesting than the boring sunshine you get here in California…'
    https://www.snp.org/nicola_sturgeon_address_at_stanford_university_scotland_s_place_in_the_world

    She's much more interested in making a name for herself on the world stage than dealing with Scotland's domestic problems: if you can't get independence, act as if you're independent anyway.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Listening to the the discussion, I get the impression I would be a terrible negotiator - I'm far more amendable to compromises than most people it seems, perhaps too amenable.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699

    Number of candidates by party , English council elections on May 4th with change from 2013

    Con 2,256 No Change
    Lab 2,179 Plus 5
    LDem 1,907 Plus 159
    Green 1,266 Plus 395
    UKIP 1,121 Minus 633
    All Others/Inds 762 Minus 276

    Cheers for posting those figures Mr Senior. – Will you also be posting Scotland + Wales?
    I posted Scotland last week when nominations closed !!!!!!! Wales will follow 3 councils to do .

    Total number of seats in England 2,370

    Also 107 English council by elections , candidates known for 102 of them

    Cpn 102
    Lab 80
    LDem 80
    Green 50
    UKIP 41
    Ind/Others 32
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,026
    UKIP are dissolving, for now.

    They may come back in some form (as an immigration protest party) if May doesn't deliver meaningful controls in the next 5 years or so.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sturgeon's marketing of Scotland to California students 'The first is that if any of you are uncertain what to do after you leave Stanford, you are very welcome to come to Scotland! We offer a warm welcome and a fantastic quality of life. And our weather is much more interesting than the boring sunshine you get here in California…'
    https://www.snp.org/nicola_sturgeon_address_at_stanford_university_scotland_s_place_in_the_world

    I consider persuading my wife to move from California to the UK one of my more successful (albeit expensive) negotiations
    You spent a fortune on umbrellas?
    On a beach house...

  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    She has very little choice. FoM will survive until about 2029 even if we have full Brexit.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,026
    surbiton said:

    She has very little choice. FoM will survive until about 2029 even if we have full Brexit.
    The EU guidelines are that a transition deal should last no longer than three years.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    kle4 said:

    Listening to the the discussion, I get the impression I would be a terrible negotiator - I'm far more amendable to compromises than most people it seems, perhaps too amenable.

    You’d be an appalling negotiator, but then most normal people would be.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    HYUFD said:

    Sturgeon's marketing of Scotland to California students 'The first is that if any of you are uncertain what to do after you leave Stanford, you are very welcome to come to Scotland! We offer a warm welcome and a fantastic quality of life. And our weather is much more interesting than the boring sunshine you get here in California…'
    https://www.snp.org/nicola_sturgeon_address_at_stanford_university_scotland_s_place_in_the_world

    She is way above that wooden May. Mind you, it is not very difficult!
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Andy_JS said:

    UKIP polled 23% of the vote in Hastings in 2013, although they didn't win any seats. They have no candidates standing this time.

    Sleazy racists on the slide.
  • CyanCyan Posts: 1,262
    edited April 2017
    Investigators found confidential police documents in the National Front's HQ in Nanterre, it was revealed today. That is precisely the building where the NF has been accused of paying staff unlawfully using EU Parliament money,
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    edited April 2017
    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sturgeon's marketing of Scotland to California students 'The first is that if any of you are uncertain what to do after you leave Stanford, you are very welcome to come to Scotland! We offer a warm welcome and a fantastic quality of life. And our weather is much more interesting than the boring sunshine you get here in California…'
    https://www.snp.org/nicola_sturgeon_address_at_stanford_university_scotland_s_place_in_the_world

    I consider persuading my wife to move from California to the UK one of my more successful (albeit expensive) negotiations
    You spent a fortune on umbrellas?
    On a beach house...

    In Holkham?
  • bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042
    You are now entering Free Brexit. Just like being in the EU, only more expensive.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    surbiton said:

    Andy_JS said:

    UKIP polled 23% of the vote in Hastings in 2013, although they didn't win any seats. They have no candidates standing this time.

    Sleazy racists on the slide.
    Non sleazy racists on the rise?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,286
    edited April 2017
    RobD said:

    Number of candidates by party , English council elections on May 4th with change from 2013

    Con 2,256 No Change
    Lab 2,179 Plus 5
    LDem 1,907 Plus 159
    Green 1,266 Plus 395
    UKIP 1,121 Minus 633
    All Others/Inds 762 Minus 276

    Do you know the number of seats up? Also nominations still open, so we would welcome an update when they close, if possible!
    Total number of seats and divisions being contested:

    England: 2,370 seats in 2,190 divisions.
    Wales: 1,254 seats in 852 divisions.

    Edit: Mark beat me to it as usual.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    surbiton said:

    She has very little choice. FoM will survive until about 2029 even if we have full Brexit.
    The EU guidelines are that a transition deal should last no longer than three years.
    Which guidelines?
  • surbiton said:

    Andy_JS said:

    UKIP polled 23% of the vote in Hastings in 2013, although they didn't win any seats. They have no candidates standing this time.

    Sleazy racists on the slide.
    To be fair, politics in Hastings has always been a bit weird. Once upon a time it was in the LibDem Top 10 Winnable Seats ... and so they organised, campaigned, and went into third place. Labour won it in the Blair years, the Conservatives got it back, UKIP surged, the Lib Dems evaporated ... no idea how things stand these days. Could be one to watch for amusement value, though.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789

    Hurrah for freedom of movement

    And yet we have this. Is May the most duplicitous politician in living memory?

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/849728679034990594
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    TOPPING said:

    surbiton said:

    She has very little choice. FoM will survive until about 2029 even if we have full Brexit.
    The EU guidelines are that a transition deal should last no longer than three years.
    Which guidelines?
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/29/first-eu-response-to-article-50-takes-tough-line-on-transitional-deal

    there may be a transitional deal for after 2019 to ensure that custom controls and barriers on trade are not enforced on day one of Brexit, but that these arrangements should not exceed three years and will be “limited in scope as they can never be a substitute for union membership”.
  • CyanCyan Posts: 1,262
    The third French debate now won't happen. France 2 have abandoned it. It was due to be held three days before the first round.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    surbiton said:

    She has very little choice. FoM will survive until about 2029 even if we have full Brexit.
    EU says three year transition/implementation limit so that would be 2022. That's sellable domestically to Leavers and the Tory party I'd say. 2029 is walk away territory.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    So it looks like after Brexit we will have FoM but we will not be in the Single Market.

    You couldn't make it up.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,760
    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Reckless timed his defection to UKIP to cause maximum damage to the Tory party conference.

    If he wants back in, then he must do the Walk of Shame into conference, naked from Wales through to the streets of Manchester.

    Then conference can vote on whether he has shown enough penitence. I'm hoping not.

    Do I get the feeling that he isn't terribly popular in his former party?
    There's a lot of Leavers MPs and members in the Tory Party who would like to castrate Mark Reckless with a rusty saw.

    It was the timing of his defection that caused so much anger.

    Contrast the restraint and sadness shown at Douglas Carswell defecting to UKIP
    Churchill's various rattings and re-rattings were discretely conducted behind the oak doors of clubland, but I presume Mr Reckless holds him in high regard.
    Not a very good equivalent:

    1) Churchill spent several years in coalition with the Conservatives under Lloyd George, in senior cabinet posts;

    2) When re-ratting to the Conservatives, he had effectively left the Liberals in 1917 and after 1922 spent a couple of years as an independent before being brought in at Cabinet level by Baldwin on the advice of Neville Chamberlain (who had refused the post of Chancellor) over the angry protests of the ordinary party;

    3) He was a talented figure with a proven track record in government (such figures were quite scarce in the Tory party of the 1920s - witness that the Home Secretary of the time, Joynson-Hicks, had only been in cabinet a year and Baldwin himself had been a backbencher less than six years before) and was well-connected politically - a definite catch.
    Churchill was a Liberal candidate in Leicester for the 1923 election!
    You are over-simplifying his position. He was given official Liberal backing but was almost fully divorced from the official leadership (Asquith) and had fallen out with Lloyd George over a number of things, although the final rupture came over putting Labour into power after the election after which he started calling himself an 'anti-Socialist Consitutionalist'. In effect, he had left the Liberals with Lloyd George in 1916 and never really returned. That said, he didn't officially rejoin the Unionists until 1925, after he joined them in government.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    surbiton said:

    So it looks like after Brexit we will have FoM but we will not be in the Single Market.

    You couldn't make it up.

    If we aren't in the single market, why would we need to continue with freedom of movement? It would only continue if we stayed within the single market during the transitional period.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    bobajobPB said:

    Gallowgate

    I often agree with you but you have a real blind spot when it comes to Nicola. She is class above the rest of the comics we have 'leading' our parties nowadays.

    Nicola’s speech is fine words. But, like all politicians, her principles are negotiable.

    From her speech, she brags about Scotland’s commitment to climate changes.

    "Another area Scotland prioritises is tackling climate change.

    In 2012 Scotland became the first country to establish a Climate Justice Fund for developing countries. It recognises that the people affected most by climate change are often those who have done the least to cause it.

    And in addition to helping countries to mitigate climate change, we also want to be at the forefront of tackling it.”

    Fine words, indeed.

    But, when it comes to Scotland’s airports, what is her Government doing. Her Government is proposing to reduce green taxes.

    The Air Departure Tax (Scotland) Bill, published by her government in December, proposes to reduce aviation tax by 50% by the end of the current parliament, with the levy eventually abolished "when finances allow”.

    This hardly squares with being in the forefront of tackling climate change.

  • bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042
    welshowl said:

    surbiton said:

    She has very little choice. FoM will survive until about 2029 even if we have full Brexit.
    EU says three year transition/implementation limit so that would be 2022. That's sellable domestically to Leavers and the Tory party I'd say. 2029 is walk away territory.
    Lol. The only people who matter are 'Leavers' and the Tory Party. May really is a shit PM.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,286
    edited April 2017

    surbiton said:

    Andy_JS said:

    UKIP polled 23% of the vote in Hastings in 2013, although they didn't win any seats. They have no candidates standing this time.

    Sleazy racists on the slide.
    To be fair, politics in Hastings has always been a bit weird. Once upon a time it was in the LibDem Top 10 Winnable Seats ... and so they organised, campaigned, and went into third place. Labour won it in the Blair years, the Conservatives got it back, UKIP surged, the Lib Dems evaporated ... no idea how things stand these days. Could be one to watch for amusement value, though.
    The 23% UKIP share in Hastings probably included a lot of Old Labour voters.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    edited April 2017
    RobD said:

    TOPPING said:

    surbiton said:

    She has very little choice. FoM will survive until about 2029 even if we have full Brexit.
    The EU guidelines are that a transition deal should last no longer than three years.
    Which guidelines?
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/29/first-eu-response-to-article-50-takes-tough-line-on-transitional-deal

    there may be a transitional deal for after 2019 to ensure that custom controls and barriers on trade are not enforced on day one of Brexit, but that these arrangements should not exceed three years and will be “limited in scope as they can never be a substitute for union membership”.
    Thx
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    bobajobPB said:

    welshowl said:

    surbiton said:

    She has very little choice. FoM will survive until about 2029 even if we have full Brexit.
    EU says three year transition/implementation limit so that would be 2022. That's sellable domestically to Leavers and the Tory party I'd say. 2029 is walk away territory.
    Lol. The only people who matter are 'Leavers' and the Tory Party. May really is a shit PM.
    Thank god we have a functioning rational opposition to hold them to account.

    oh.
  • Andy_JS said:

    surbiton said:

    Andy_JS said:

    UKIP polled 23% of the vote in Hastings in 2013, although they didn't win any seats. They have no candidates standing this time.

    Sleazy racists on the slide.
    To be fair, politics in Hastings has always been a bit weird. Once upon a time it was in the LibDem Top 10 Winnable Seats ... and so they organised, campaigned, and went into third place. Labour won it in the Blair years, the Conservatives got it back, UKIP surged, the Lib Dems evaporated ... no idea how things stand these days. Could be one to watch for amusement value, though.
    The 23% UKIP share in Hastings probably included a lot of Old Labour voters.
    And, I dare say, quite a few former Lib Dem protest voters as well.
  • Ally_BAlly_B Posts: 185
    edited April 2017
    surbiton said:

    She has very little choice. FoM will survive until about 2029 even if we have full Brexit.

    But the Tories won't so where will that leave us?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    edited April 2017
    surbiton said:

    So it looks like after Brexit we will have FoM but we will not be in the Single Market.

    You couldn't make it up.

    It will only be for a 3 year transition period
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    ydoethur said:

    justin124 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Reckless timed his defection to UKIP to cause maximum damage to the Tory party conference.

    If he wants back in, then he must do the Walk of Shame into conference, naked from Wales through to the streets of Manchester.

    Then conference can vote on whether he has shown enough penitence. I'm hoping not.

    Do I get the feeling that he isn't terribly popular in his former party?
    There's a lot of Leavers MPs and members in the Tory Party who would like to castrate Mark Reckless with a rusty saw.

    It was the timing of his defection that caused so much anger.

    Contrast the restraint and sadness shown at Douglas Carswell defecting to UKIP
    Churchill's various rattings and re-rattings were discretely conducted behind the oak doors of clubland, but I presume Mr Reckless holds him in high regard.
    Not a very good equivalent:
    - a definite catch.
    Churchill was a Liberal candidate in Leicester for the 1923 election!
    You are over-simplifying his position. He was given official Liberal backing but was almost fully divorced from the official leadership (Asquith) and had fallen out with Lloyd George over a number of things, although the final rupture came over putting Labour into power after the election after which he started calling himself an 'anti-Socialist Consitutionalist'. In effect, he had left the Liberals with Lloyd George in 1916 and never really returned. That said, he didn't officially rejoin the Unionists until 1925, after he joined them in government.
    Sounds a bit hair splitting, or over complicating matters - clearly he had not 'in effect' left if he was still an official candidate, even if apart from that the relationship was, as you say, virtually non-existent. It's semantic - 'all but left' might be closer if what you say is right than 'in effect' left, since the former would recognise only the name was remaining, while the latter suggests something more formal, at least to me.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    edited April 2017
    welshowl said:

    surbiton said:

    She has very little choice. FoM will survive until about 2029 even if we have full Brexit.
    EU says three year transition/implementation limit so that would be 2022. That's sellable domestically to Leavers and the Tory party I'd say. 2029 is walk away territory.
    By 2029 Labour could be back in power and have returned the UK to the single market
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    So whatever is the final agreement, UK leaving the EU will actually take place in 2022.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789
    HYUFD said:

    surbiton said:

    So it looks like after Brexit we will have FoM but we will not be in the Single Market.

    You couldn't make it up.

    It will be for a transition period
    Just a phase we'll go through on the way to the dissolution of the UK and rejoining?
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    bobajobPB said:

    welshowl said:

    surbiton said:

    She has very little choice. FoM will survive until about 2029 even if we have full Brexit.
    EU says three year transition/implementation limit so that would be 2022. That's sellable domestically to Leavers and the Tory party I'd say. 2029 is walk away territory.
    Lol. The only people who matter are 'Leavers' and the Tory Party. May really is a shit PM.
    I take your point but in terms of getting reelected in 2020, well yes, pretty much. Cynical I agree, but she ain't going to pander to Tim Farron's national constituency is she?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    surbiton said:

    So whatever is the final agreement, UK leaving the EU will actually take place in 2022.

    UK will probably cease to have Commissioners/MEPs in 2019. The guidelines were quite clear that the transitional period would not just be an extension of membership.
  • CyanCyan Posts: 1,262

    bobajobPB said:

    Gallowgate

    I often agree with you but you have a real blind spot when it comes to Nicola. She is class above the rest of the comics we have 'leading' our parties nowadays.

    Nicola’s speech is fine words. But, like all politicians, her principles are negotiable.

    From her speech, she brags about Scotland’s commitment to climate changes.

    "Another area Scotland prioritises is tackling climate change.

    In 2012 Scotland became the first country to establish a Climate Justice Fund for developing countries. It recognises that the people affected most by climate change are often those who have done the least to cause it.

    And in addition to helping countries to mitigate climate change, we also want to be at the forefront of tackling it.”

    Fine words, indeed.

    But, when it comes to Scotland’s airports, what is her Government doing. Her Government is proposing to reduce green taxes.

    The Air Departure Tax (Scotland) Bill, published by her government in December, proposes to reduce aviation tax by 50% by the end of the current parliament, with the levy eventually abolished "when finances allow”.

    This hardly squares with being in the forefront of tackling climate change.
    The SNP attitude is "can we get grants out of that?"

    Tackling climate change is cock anyway.

  • HYUFD said:

    welshowl said:

    surbiton said:

    She has very little choice. FoM will survive until about 2029 even if we have full Brexit.
    EU says three year transition/implementation limit so that would be 2022. That's sellable domestically to Leavers and the Tory party I'd say. 2029 is walk away territory.
    By 2029 Labour could be back in power and have returned the UK to the single market
    And if pigs could fly, New Scotland Yard would be London's third airport....
This discussion has been closed.